The following presentation is Del Marvis Studios Production. Welcome back truth seekers from around
the world. It's time for another edition of the Flat Earth Files podcast.
I'm your host, as always, George Hobbes. I hope this podcast finds
you well and everybody's having a great week. We have a guest standing by.
His name is Justin. He'll be joining us in just a moment before
we get started, just a couple of quick reminders. Check out the website,
the flat earthfiles dot com. Join the chatroom, say hello, leave
your questions in the forum. It's been very, very busy. I get
notifications when people leave something in the forum, and it's been a lot of
people asking questions and leaving their ideas, so it's a great place to to
meet up and share ideas. Again, it's the flatterthfiles dot com. Questions,
comments, or you would like to join the podcast, like Justin is
today, It's very simple. You drop an email to the flat Earth Files
at gmail dot com and we will send you back a very brief questionnaire and
we will get you on the list to be scheduled. And right now I
think we're we're still two to three months out, but we are doing the
best weekend to try to knock out, you know, a couple of interviews
a week and spread the message of flat Earth and you know everybody's journey to
the truth. So with all that being said, again, we've been chatting
Justin and I for quite some time, having some very intriguing correspondence and he's
a very very well thought out guy, and I've been looking forward to this
interview for quite some time. So without any further ado, let's bring Justin
on the program. Justin, how are you doing, sir? I'm doing
well. George, how are you great? I'm doing very well. Thank
you. Go ahead and take a moment and introduce yourself to the audience.
Do my first and foremost if we just pray? Yeah, absolutely, Basically,
let's go ahead and bow our headsply. Father, we thank you for
this opportunity to gather fellowship today. Lord, as we speak together and your
word is being heard by the listeners who George has gathered, and that you
have given him this blackform. Father, we asked that your word be all
that we hear. I asked that it not being my understandable, my knowledge
of my wisdom, where George is understanding knowledge of wisdom, with the wisdom
of God who is Christ, Jesus, our Lord and fathering. Your words
will be coming from our mouths, so that your message will you received by
those who you have called to hear it. Lord, give us eyes to
see here's to hear, hearts to understand all that you were teacherous to not
in Jesus name of pray Man. Hey, amen, thank you to that.
Absolutely. Oh sorry, and what was the what did you say before
that? I have go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience. Oh a
right. My name is Justin. I'm thirty nine years old. I am
a father of three d and praise to be God, just husband of one.
The Lord has blessed me with a family that has just been incredible,
even through all the trials and tribulations of marriage and trying. At the same
time of when my wife and I first got together, we were both just
individuals who were agnostic at best would describe ourselves as spiritual, but there was
no nothing actually spiritual about anything that we enjoyed, and it wasn't It was
really around the time of twenty fifteen, so I've always been I guess let
me to act it up a bit I'm always what you would call a critical
thinker. In two thousand and one, when the Tower spelled and everything like
that, I was in high school and I remember watching it in my history
classroom. They walked in and interrupted our and interrupted my teacher and told him
to turn the television on, which watched it live on TVs. The Towers
spell. And I remember at that time really not having a grass and understanding
like what the meaning was of all of that, but I could recognize in
that minute it just when the first tower fell, it just did not I
expected if a tower of that tall would fall with damage that high in it,
it would lean over and fall. To see a shirt just crumbling bick
down, just it seemed odd. And here I am a high school I
have no engary background. I know nothing about construction or demolition, and I'm
just like, that's a really odd way for that tower to start falling.
And then, as you know, going into the internet looking those things up
and actually, what was his name, guy who did Fahrenheit nine eleven was
his name more Michael Moore? Yah, Yeah, that was that was Actually
I remember Fahrenheit that a lot of them and watching that and being like,
man, there is a lot to this that doesn't make sense. So that
was really my initiation, I guess, into this concept of critical thinking.
I mean, I don't even know if conspiracy theory was. I know it
was because Bill Cooper was around, and there were a few others. But
I kind of fell off of that train for a while, just fell into
the you know, the lusts of my youth and things like that, and
running after all of the all the things that you do in college and later
late in high school into college and things like that. But I really got
into as I get later into college. We gott in my junior year in
college, I was going for my criminal justice degree and wanted to become a
law enforcement officer. I remember the National Defense Authorization Act of two thousand and
nine, after having everything that happened with the Patriot Actor. Was always just
this recognition that the government was just for seizing power. They were taking power
at any opportunity they could, and they were doing it as subtly as they
could, and if you weren't paying attention, they were basically taking I guess
I shouldn't say taking, but they were prepping to have the ability to do
to whatever they desired. To you. And the National Defense Authorization Act of
two thousand and nine was pretty much the cross four with me when they passed
the act that you could basically as long as you stated that you believed an
individual had terrorist ties or was involved in terrorist activities, you could detain them
an American citizen. You could detain them without due process, so you could
detain them indefinitely and never have to take them to court. So basically,
you just we think you're a terrorist, snatch and grab them, and they're
gone forever for as long as you like, and they will never see a
courtroom, they will never have a date to defend themselves. I started to
I started to realize, like, if I'm going to be a law enforcement
officer, there may come a day where I am going to have to hold
a law. I don't believe it's constitutional. I don't believe it's right,
yeap. And that least started to weigh on my heart. But I was
still at that time really deep in into just my own selfishness and my own
fleshy desires and things like that. But that was really where my walk into
critical thinking went to. But as far as sad me, at any point
if I'm just talking too long, by the way. No, that was
just very intriguing. And so from about two thousand and nine to twenty fifteen,
to say it best, in my life, there were things that happened
to me as a kid. Because the best way I can describe it that
was a very skinny, tall, big bowl, glasses bowl cut, Harry
Potter looking kid like my story as I used to joke that if Harry Potter
was getting cast when I was a child, you would have been in the
wing. For like, I just looked like a nerd and I wasn't nerd.
I was. I was a nerd. But as I grew up,
I got bigger, my body filled out, and I had been bullied when
I was younger. I had been the recipient of a beatdown for a gang
initiation at one point, and there were certain things in my life that just
started to fester a hatred in me, and I was just I basically spent
my late teens and in my early twenties just full of hate. I couldn't
I couldn't vocalize it, I couldn't express it, but I just hated everyone.
The best way I could describe it is I was driving one day with
my high school sweetheart who was my fiance at the time, and we had
just left a family dinner which we ended up showing two and a half hours
late to because I didn't care about my family, and I remember were saying
to her, is like, I know my family loves me. I have
absolutely no idea why because I don't care about them at all, And she
and I just had a conversation. We couldn't really grasp it, but that
was really revelic towards me because I had grown up as a nominal Christian.
My mom had taken us to different churches throughout time. My grandfather had been
a pastor, but he had died when I was twelve, and he was
really the old soverign figure in my life that I had ever actually connected with.
My biological father abandoned my family for drugs, alcohol, and women when
I was three months old. My stepdad who's passed away now. Not to
defang him or anything like that, I'll just say he and I did not
have a good relationship that there wasn't loving where there was no real connection between
us, and he was also part of the He's also a part of what
helped build up the hatred inside of me that I I was just full of
anger all the time and I just wanted to hurt people. And that was
really starting to play out in my heroes and idols at that time were serial
killers. As awful as that is to say, I was studying them incessantly.
I was learning their tacts and learning the things they were doing and how
they were getting away with them. And I give phrase to God because I'm
I'm absolutely certain if the Lord had not set restraint in my heart, I
would have gone in a far different direction than I have ever that I am
now because the only thing that I remember ever stopping me was this concept that
had been set in me. I didn't have an understanding of it. I
didn't really know how it went, but I knew that I would be judged
one day, and that judgment would be from God and I so I got
deep into occultism and demonology and a lot of role playing like Vampire the Masquerade
and other things like that, where you could express these desires to basically unleash
the beast within was really the concept of it, but do it in a
safe fashion, right? An't thing that? And I just remember I got
so far gone that I I wanted to be demon possessed, and I referred
to myself as a servitor of the pit. I was a Bali serviator of
the pit, like that was A that was a vampire tribe and BTM.
But I wanted to associate it as to who I was the person I wanted
to adopt that persona because basically the mentality I always had was it is I
never wanted anyone to be able to hurt me. I never wanted anyone to
be able to get over on me again and do and damage you or harm
me again. And it really started to play out off because what happened in
my mind was I said it in my mind is that no matter how far
someone is willing to go, I must be willing to go a step farther.
I must be willing to go and hurt them more. And so an
any opportunity I could find to be harmful to somebody, I was, And
that started. I got a job as a resident advocate for the criminally insane,
and I remember I knew nothing about the job. I had no interest
in mental health or anything like that. But my friends who worked there came
up towards me and basically told me, is you can beat people up and
get away with it. Well, I went in the bay and I applied
for the job, and I got the job and looked for the very first
opportunity that I could, and was basically taught how to barn people without getting
in trouble for it. And it just it fed everything in me. It
fed this desire in me to range people. And I was in that job
for several years, and I remember there was a time where there was this
resident six foot ten, huge, redneck, racist white guy. Huge.
I'm six foot four, two hundred and fifty pounds, and he dwarfed me
and one of my co workers, Terrell, was about a three hundred and
fifty pound black joke. And this resident would constantly just say and word this,
and we're back to him. And I remember we were doing a double
shift one weekend and or pulland double, so it's work second shift Friday night,
first and second Saturday, and the first and second Sunday, so one
whole weekend, and this resident was just going off, that's what we called
it. The whole weekend. He was doing everything he could to just be
a terror in this facility. He tried to pull a bookshelf down on top
of a blind resident and she in the face when I stopped him, and
we ended up physically managing him in that instance. And it was just like
that. It was second as soon as I walked in Friday, second ship
was boom. The entire weekend. It was just dealing with this residence.
He ripped down our chain link fence that was at the backyard of our facility.
It was just he was just going off the whole weekend and we were
just getting so fed up with it. And Sunday night Second Ship, so
it was the end of the weekend. So at the end of my ship,
I go off the unit to go to the bath room and there's this
araba between units where our manager's offices are, and they had this and this
was the stupidest idea in the world, and we constantly told him this is
dumb. They had this picnic carry, which was a cement area that you
could go out to. It was fenced him the residence could go there,
but there was a rock bed along the whole odder edge to it, and
we kept on telling him you can't have a rock bed there. They will
go out there and use these rocks his weapons. Sure, and no one's
going to do anything. It wasn't locked, so they could go access it
as long as they could get through from the unit to it could go out
and get the rocks. And they tought, well, I leave the unit,
and I just here, you know, su you big fat and and
I'm just like, oh no. And I looked to my left and they're
out in this unit. It is Terrell and this resident and he's got a
rock the size of my fist and his hand cocked back, ready to throw
it at my coworker. And I'm just like, all right, all right,
well here we go, because that was just where my mentality was.
It's like there wasn't even fear. It was just like, all right,
well, we're gonna do this. And so I go out there and my
coworker, Terrell, is unfortunately antagonizing. He's like, you ain't gonna do
anything. On you ain't gonna do it sixteen two. Shut up. This
guy's got a rock cock back the size of the size of my head and
you're telling me he's not gonna do it. Well, guess what he threw
it. And the road, I can only tell you is at that moment,
everything slowed down. I saw Terrell put his hands up and turn his
head away to shield himself with this rock. I didn't know what happened to
him, but like this resident bent down to grab another rock, and I
just rushed and get me in the face. I smashed him up against the
fence, and I knew nothing about like, actually he's fighting at this point.
I just knew I like to hurt people, and I shoved him up
against the fence as he as he smashed me in the face with his fist,
and I somehow threw him over my head. He was huge, and
he landed down beside me with his mouth on my forearm, and he's biting
into my forearm and I literally had to like saw my arm out of his
mouth, and I started smashing his head into the pavement and he started biting
at me and fighting. And then at the same time, but I don't
know how much time passed, but my coworker Terrell got up and he had
actually been hitting the head with this rock. We he ended up having to
go to the hospital with a mild concussion. But in that moment, he's
huge, so I'm like this big six with ten bear beneath me, and
this big three hundred and fifty pounds bear on my back trying to get me
to let him kill this guy. I'm just like trying to hold one with
the other hand, pull the other one down on the other hand. We're
just in this tussle and there's blood everywhere, and I remember one of my
somebody ended up calling the sheriff's artment, and the sheriff's barman came out with
a shotgun of this guy's head and says, stay down. And I stood
up, and I had a euphoria in me had never felt in my life.
I was covered in blood and I felt so good. I felt so
related, and I'm like, I know what I want to do. I
want to fight people. And so then I started doing mixed martial arts,
getting into all the different disciplines with the tension of horned people, and I'm
feeling like this is a dragon world. So I'm just going to go and
shorten it. So I had my very first amateur fight in twenty fifteen,
and it was the greatest sextasy I'd ever felt in my life. It was
better than any sex. It was better than anything I ever felt in his
physical sense when I was seeing my opponent in his in his thigh and he
was screaming in my ear. I had a plumb tie out of him and
I was folding her to tie colage, and I was needing him to sigh,
and n was screaming every time I hit him, and it was just
it was everything I had ever worned. It was so relieving, it was
so ecstatic. And I had basically at this point come to this desire in
my life to be a god, in every aspect of my life, to
be my own god. I wanted no one to be able to get over
on me in the physical sense. I wanted to know one to be able
to get over on me mentally in any sort of debate. I didn't want
it to be totally even sexually and things like that, Like my mind had
gotten so perverted, like I would have relations with a woman and I would
not allow myself to be satisfied in that. I would do everything I could
not be satisfied in it. For the sense I didn't want anybody to be
able to satisfy me, and then when they would leave, I would go
and take care of myself like that's it wasn't even enjoyable to me. It
was about I was so twisted and corrupted in my mind, and then my
hatred and my desire to be this untouchable person that I had totally like driven
everywhere away. I was destroying every relationship I was ever in and I couldn't
understand it. I was I was like a man standing in the middle of
his house while his house is burning down around and wondering what happened as I
have a can of gas in the long hand and matches in the other and
I'm just like, I don't understand what's going on. I was burning my
world down around me. And at that time, I had met the woman
that was going to become my wife, and I had this habit of putting
on this mask of like the type of man I wanted to be, which
was a good and faithful boyfriend, faithful I with her and I had We've
been together for a year, and I was I was just devastated because I
had this spike going on, and I had my my career was going to
go pro like the guy that I trained with, several professional fighters who were
actually in the UFC, and I was getting pushed towards being an heavyweight because
there aren't many heavyweights that are still be capable, and I was going to
go pro and do that. And right after this first fight, everything in
my world just fell the pieces. I had it up with the general disc
disease in my back that had been building up for years. I had,
I had her. I had a seizing bolting discs in my back that were
just making mysiatic a screen with fire all the way down my right leg.
That's a Brudian. And I had been h I had been treating with narcotic
medication. I would use them. I would use the medication for like whatever
medication would given me. I would use that to numb the pain for the
time, and then I just go right back to fighting and it would flare
up again and I'd just do it again. And I'd been treating with that
way for like six years, but around this time that was the worst I'd
ever had. And at the same time, I had asked my wife to
marry me, and yet I was seeing all the old trends that were destroying
my relationships happening again, and I couldn't stop myself, and I was like,
what is going on? And then at the same time, if I
wanted to go in chase after being a professional fighter, I would have to
go out to Vegas or out to California or Arizona, somewhere where the big
schools are, and I would have to abandon everything that I was building here,
and my life was forward apart. And then as far as it's really
interesting because flat Earth fever around right around the same time as Christ started to
work in my life. And really what it was is there was two things.
I saw a meed and I still have it to this day of a
train with a smoke stack coming out of it next to a pillar of smoke
from a volcano going up through the clouds, and it says, and it
basically just simply said, this is how smoke reacts with a moving surface.
This is how smoke reacts on an unmoving surface. And I think the tibeline
was is the earth action moving? Question mark? Yeah, I found that
made by the way. I found that exact image, so I leave that.
The show notes it says, see the difference, the earth is motionless,
and it shows a train doing twenty miles an hour, and then of
course you know the volcano is spewing smoke supposedly at one hundred thousand and it's
going straight up in the air. Yeah, And I knew in that moment.
I'm like, huh, it's not moving. I didn't know anything else,
but I was like, it's not moving. It can't be. That
doesn't make any sense. Like even there's not even wind pushing it, there's
nothing in that moment. The smoke's just going straight up. It didn't make
sense. But I was like, that was just kind of the beginning of
the path. But I remember, you remember the go fast amateur rocket,
the one that just stopped. It was what's that the one that just stopped?
Yeah, the one that just stopped and it sounds like it's hitting water.
Yep. I remember watching that because I was like, I know,
big into rockets, like rock Oh, that's cool. You know it's an
amateur rocket going to go up the highest And I'm like, how did the
thing stop? What happened? There's there's nothing within the heliocentric model that would
ever lead you to believe that that rocket should stop unless it hits something.
And then Mike actually was well, if it hit something, why did it
not blow up? Why did it not fall? The pieces get destroyed it
hits something that's malleable, that was resistant but pliable, you know what I
mean. I was just like, Okay, this isn't what they're telling us,
is not what this is like, it can't be. And then I
started watching Rob Skiper videos and he was doing actual tests, and he did
one with the magnet or whatnot, one of those lenses, those lenses where
he just basically took a little piece of paper with a sun drawn on it
on a little wheelly trolley and pulled it away with a magnetic lens in front
of it. And you just watched that even as he had it at multiple
cameras, and you could see that even as he was pulling it away,
the image inside of the magic the lens stayed magnified. And I was just
like, Okay, the sun doesn't actually go around the curve like and it
was just it was just this slow genesis process of like, it can't be
what they're saying there because I cannot reproduce this on a curved surface. And
that was really the start of it. Right around the same time. So
my actual conversion and submission to Christ as a slave came in twenty fifteen as
well. Right around. Everything in my life was falling apart. But at
the same time, it's still telling myself, I'm this, I'm this,
like this god of a man, and that's where I was. It was
more less I shouldn't say goddess, I myself because I loved demonology and I
was even though I would never call myself a Satanist, I loved Satanism.
I loved everything in demonic, in everything evil, like I truly was trying
to kill everything in my conscience that would stop me from committing evil. I
wanted to do egal. All of my heroes, all of my idols,
were evil. And I remember I got into all of my friends were atheists,
and they got into a debate. It was basically like over Richard Dawkings
the god delusion, and how the god of the Old Testamator is the most
homicidal jedocidal fictional character and all of history, and how these got the greatest
killed death ratio or kill count and all up history. And I just remember
and then they were saying, like the Jesus of the New Testament and it
is just this hippy keep me lovely, w wheat smoking, you know,
like peace and love, kind of Guy, and I was just like I
used to go to Awana as a kid. I would go to Camp a
Rikaya, like I would go to these Christian things, and I was like,
I didn't know a single verse of the Bible. I don't even think
knew John three sixteen. But I was like, that's not how I remember
the scriptures being presented, Like, Okay, I want to debate them and
defeat them. That was my whole intention for buying a Bible. I had
no desire to no Christ, had no desire to no God, and I
just wanted to defeat my friends in argument and prove to them that they were
wrong. So there was a There was an atheist book I started listening to
on audio called like Dreams to Blood, where they basically just took Isaiah thirty
four and they went and they just ran with it and just talked about how
God is just this homicidal maniac and this mass murdering studio of killer. And
I read I listened to that and I was like, Eh, it sounds
iffy, because then I read Isaiah thirty four and I'm like, well,
they're saying that this makes him evil, But Isaiah thirty four says that the
Lord is doing this as retribution for what has happened to his people, what
the enemies of his people have done to them, he will serve back on
to them. I was like, well, that actually sounds like, you
know, a pretty good king, Like I would want my kid to dole
up just on the enemies who have slaughtered my people, Like that's that's a
good king. And then they would talk about the flood, and I,
you know, was reading Genesis six and it was like that the that the
intentions and the thoughts of men's hearts were only evil ever continues, and so
I was basically like, Okay, so you have an entire world full of
serial killers and rapists and pedophiles. I would want to kill those people.
Why would I then say that God, who made them doesn't have the authority
to do that. Who am I to say all their thoughts are evil only
continuously? He has every right to destroy them. I, myself, as
a Magan, was doing like I was justifying all of the evil that I
was doing because I was saying I was doing it to pedophiles, I was
doing me to rapists, I was doing it to murderers like the Angury our
eye cases, which are not guilty by reasons of insanity. They were.
They were people who had done some very heinous things and had gotten away with
it in a sense indeed, And so I was using that as a justification
to be who I was, and it was just fueling this fire within me.
And I started recognized as like, Okay, something is not adding up
here with what all my friend's arguments were. And I started watching around Christian
apologists versus atheists debates like Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris versus like and Richard Dawkins
versus oh my gosh, I'm forgetting his name, the old Oxford professor and
Robbie Zacharias. I know everything that happened about him, but he was very
instrumental in my beginning, in John Lennox and a few others. But I
just remember listening to these and the Christians were just so civil and so calm
and so easily refuted every argument of these atheists. I was just like,
this is not this is interesting, Like they are slaughtering these guys, they
are defeating them. And I was still in this, still in this mode
where I was destroying my life and I couldn't explain why it was happening.
I mean, I was, I didn't want to do it, but I
couldn't stop myself. And I go to the sermon of the Sermon on the
Moud. I can't even remember why I was there, and I read in
Matthew, you have heard it said that thou shall not commit adultery. But
I tell you, if you've even looked at a woman with lust in your
heart, you have already committed adultery with her. And Geordie was like a
damn blew up in my mind, and every single saying that I was struggling
with was answered. Because I had been lying to myself and deceiving myself.
I was telling myself I was a good person. I was telling myself I
was not committing evil. Then I was. I was doing it in my
heart. I was doing it in my mind. And it was just in
that moment when I was like, I don't know anything about this book,
but what I just read is true. If that is true, what else
is true? And I just went on a tear and I had not stopped.
I have been following Christ ever since I came to recognize that he is
the way, He is the truth, and here's the life, and no
one comes to the Father but through him, and there is no other name
under heaven by which who maybe say. And at the same time, and
I praise God for this, he dismantled the globe earth heliocentric model at the
same time, because a lot of what happens with modern Christians today is there
you have a lot of people who professed to be Christians who are actually followers
of scientism. Yep. They actually their priests and their high priests are scientists
and doctors, and they will just go with whatever science says, and they
will claim that that's the truth. And that was so when the Lord dismantled
that for me, the scripture just came into place. I didn't have to
try and interpret anything. I didn't have to do any ice of Jesus where
I'm like, okay, where scripture says this, but science tells me this,
So I'm going to agree with science. No, I'm going to try
to make the scripture mold to what my understanding of science is. No,
if scripture says this, I must throw out what science says. It's wrong.
Asked me, how do I know that this Christ says? I am
the truth. And if he is the truth, then what he says is
truth. He is the one who speaks what is true. So if I
have this understanding and he has this understanding, mine has to just go away.
It's wrong. I'd just have to accept it. Why because he said
so. He either is the truth or he isn't. And if he needs
it, I don't need to listen to a word he says. If he
is, I must abide by everything he says. And therefore, you know,
I know, I've listened to all of the two hundred or two hundred
proofs of flat Earth's in the Bible, and I would say a lot of
those are sketchy at best, because they should be understood spiritually, try not
cardally materially. But Joshua ten, but yeah, it's absolutely he stopped under
mood in the sky. Yes. And I have have a new King James
version that has a commentary in the bottom rate like and it basically says,
well, this was just written because they didn't have an understanding. Oh my
goodness, I hate that. Just standing orbit and the Lord was the Lord
was just writing it. They were writing in a way that made sense to
them and their primitive understanding, because there's this, there's this, this constant
lie that we tell ourselves is that those who came before us were stupid,
yep, that they were as enlightened as us. You know, all honestly
we are dumber than the men who came before had. Like I try to
tell this that people all the time. Is like when they when they try
to like dog on the Pharisees and the Saddtes, I'm like, do you
understand. The Pharisees and the Saddestes knew the entire Higher Old Testament to the
letter. They knew it to every iota. That's why Christ says that not
one job o'tiddle well the will be taken from this law because they knew every
job in tittle. They were testing game on everything. They knew it to
the letter because they had to transcribe it. And they got one word wrong,
one mark wrong. They had to It didn't matter if they were going
through Isaiah and they were copying Isaiah. They got to Isaiah sixty six and
they miss misspelled something, They did something wrong, and they caught it.
They had to throw the entire writing out and start again. These men knew
the stricture. They were so much smarter than we are. They were so
much more versed in wisdom and knowledge of the world than we are, and
we just lied to ourselves because again it's this constant desire to exalt ourselves and
deify ourselves as our own God. It's exactly what I was doing. And
so it's just right around the same time that Christ saved me from my sin
and my deprivation, he also showed me that the flat, that the earth
is flat, that it is an earth. I guess, if you want
to, I should say he showed me Biblical cosmology is a better way to
say, because I wouldn't describe myself as a flat earth as much as a
biblical cosmologist, because I will submit to what the scripture says, right,
and this is that deferred is on moving then that the all of the celestial
bodies are orbiting above us and rotating and moving around us. He doesn't give
me direct description. I know everyone wants to talk about the pillars and how
it's set upon these pillars, and it's it's on moving on here. Knowing
again, there is an understanding we have to recognize what the pillars are.
The scripture talks about when we are discussing that in the earth that's actually being
talked about, there is actually man being set up on the pillars of the
scripture. But that's a whole nother that's a whole other topic. So that's
really where I came to the realization, understanding, and where I've been to
today as a slave of Jesus Christ. So yeah, that's weird. That's
a great intro and a great story. And I could tell just from our
conversations and our emails you're the type of person no matter what you take up,
you go in head first, one hundred percent. It's amazing to me
your depth of knowledge of the Bible and our conversations that we had, and
then to hear your story, I figured you know that this was you for
your entire life because of all the knowledge. But now I understand when you
take up something and in this case it was the Bible nine years ago,
you live it and you breathe it and it really shows. And it's an
amazing story. And I do have a bunch of notes. I want to
go back and ask you about your intro. First and foremost, you have
three children. It is very hard and getting harder every day to navigate this
world as Christians. What are your thoughts on their education? Yeah, so
that's actually one that I struggled with very early on because I recognize the education
system of that we're in that is being propagated throughout society. I give praise
to God actually, because as I was struggling with this, the Stantists,
the governor of Hubbed, Florida, set in place a law that did not
allow sor basically transgender ideology and homosexual ideology to be taught up until the fourth
grade in school. So he actually pushed that out from that ability for these
teachers to do that, they legally cannot do that to these early years of
children. My children do attend public school, So I guess I'll say it
like this. I used to be a children's protective service investigator and my cousins
I was raised in public school and my cousins were raised in Christian Orthodox homeschooling.
So I have seen good public school I have seen awful public schooling.
I have seen good homeschooling. I have seen awful old schooling. I have
seen parents who do an excellent job in every respect. My personal, my
personal take on this is the Lord has every had every capacity to save me
out of the lion's mouth, to save me out of public schooling. Now
that doesn't mean I'm ready to throw my children to the lions. But I
look at how Scripture talks that Moses was raised up in the knowledge of the
wisdom of Egypt. He was given all of their occult knowledge, and yet
he still thought it better to follow after Christ and to receive the approach of
Christ than to be exalted in Egypt. I want. I've seen some of
my family members who were raised in this very secluded olmen schooling, kept away
from all temptation in their in their eyes, and they have just gone off.
They have gone in different directions. I don't want to It's not my
job to explain or speak about where they have gone. But they have gone
after the world. Is the best way I could to say it. Even
though they had been raised in this tightly orthodox for an upbringing, but when
they went so they had that throughout their elementary years, and then when they
started going into high school college, they were not prepared. And again I
am not in any way saying that's true for all homeschoolers. I know that
for my family, I have seen good homeschoolers in my because one of the
one of the constant referrals we would get would be people who would be concerned
that kids were taking out public school and putting homeschool in situations, so I
would have to go out and do an investigation on are these children actually receiving
a proper education being cared for in the home? Is there any child abuse
their black taking place? And there were some that were having issue, and
there were some that were It's entirely set to the family. And I will
never war with an individual to divide on that hill. Is what whether you
go to public school and you send the children to public school, give praise
to God and study the scripture so that when your children come and say we
learn evolution today, you can then that gives you a direct means to take
them to the scripture and say this is where the Bible or this is where
the Bible stands, this is what the Word of God says, this is
what he teaches. Your teachers teach you this. The Word of God says
this. Whom do we trust? Proverbs three five through eight tells us trust
the Lord your God with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding
in all your ways. Acknowledge him, and he will make your past straight,
being out wise in your own eyes. But fear the Lord and turn
away from evil. It will be nourishment for your bones and refreshment to your
flesh. So then that gives me a direct avenue to place the scripture up
against what the world teaches and allow my children to exercise wisdom. So I
at this time, and I will also say this, I think I would
be an awful school teacher. I hate to my core. I don't like
school. So I try to sit there and then tell my children like,
yeah, I need to teach you mast I need to teach you geoatry Like
I would be awful at it because I despise it. You know, well,
I don't really see elf. Is he a good homeschooling teacher. So
if you home school your children, give thanks to God that he is giving
you the capacity to home school your children. If you sign your children to
public school or any other out of home school, and give thanks to God
that he has given you the scripture by which you can still stand and still
show your children, And then pray that he will set his mind and his
heart upon them and sanctify them unto himself, and he will give them wisdom,
though the world will do to everything it candidate the great answer, and
again there's no I've always said there's no one magical answer. There's no one
magical elixir for every situation. Everyone needs to look at you know what they
think is best for their children, and you obviously well thought out and you're
doing what you think is best for your children. And amen to that.
My next question, which I like to ask every guest, is how did
you navigate through COVID and how did it change you as a Christian a truther?
And just your thoughts on it. How I navigated through broad Oh that's
an interesting one because my youngest child was born during COVID. She was born
in thirty three weeks. She was born premature. We were in the hospitals
for thirty four days in the nick que we got home and on the eighth
day, so actually K five, I started doing feverish and we all went
and got tested and every single member of my family was positive for COVID on
the eight day, and my daughter I was downstairs foiling laundry. My boys
were on the back patio and my wife was upstairs and ursing my daughter,
and she just said words to me that I've actually had it, because she
says this to me sometimes all the time as we come up here and look
at this. I had to tell her now. I was like, you
can never say those words to me again, because she said that to me.
And I walked upstairs and she's holding my daughter wrapless swattom and she says,
does she look okay to use? And I have I have had for
infant death cases when I worked for Child Protective Services, so I had I
had seen what a an infant corpse looks like firsthand. I can only testify
you to you, George. My daughter was gray as action, was not
breathing. Ido only by the grace of God did I stay home in that
instance. And I picked my daughter up from my wife and put her on
my shoulder and had her on the back three times and just said ali,
and she just did this little like like sucking air back into her and she
came back to me and I examined her because she did that. My wife
was like, God, you gave me this huge stare. I could see
that your schemeless flushed and it was red. But when she was in the
nicku, she had gone septic before this, and there was a time where
we were there and there were no nurses, and this I give praise to
God for this. I can't I mean not to get off into a tangent.
I'm all while we were in that hit of being in the nicku,
of how awful of a stay it was. But at the same time,
the Lord never left us in that pit. There was a time where it
was just my wife's and I in her her room. It all of all
of her SATs just tanked immediately, and there was no nurse coming. All
of the alarms were blaring, everything was going off. I go into the
hallway and I'm screaming out, is there somebody you can come save my daughter?
And one of the nurses finally comes into the room and she was just
this wonderful older lady and she looked at me and she's like, Dad,
I need to go get some things. And I'm admitted, like the way
she stayed caled. She's like, I need you to start doing this,
and she showed me how to start. She says, your daughter is not
able to breathe down your own and she needs her chest stimulated. So she
showed me how to do emotion on her chest to start stimulating her chest so
that she would breathe. And I'm holding my infant daughter and she's looking at
me and it's this look of confusion on her face. She's wide away,
but she can't breathe, and so I'm stimulating her chest to keep her breathing
while they're getting everything set to take care of her. So fast forward to
this instant. I look at my daughter, who's now back and has life
in her, but I can immediately tell her chest isn't rising, her stomach
isn't bulging, she's not breathing, and she's got that same confused look.
So I tell my wife called one on one, and I take her into
her chanting table and I'm just stimulating her chest again to keep her breathing,
and I'm talking with the dispatcher and telling her everything, and the dispatch is
like, how are you staying so calm? And I wished in that moment
I had given praise to God and say, because the lawyer is with me,
But I had just said because I had to do this before, and
who but God can put me through that situation? In a moment where when
it first happens to me, question in my head is like, why is
this happening right? Because a month later I'm going to need to use it
where I'm at home and my daughter can't breathe and there's no nurser around to
care for Who but who but God can give that wisdom and give that experience
and education. So we go in and we're aiding. My daughter is positive
for COVID. Her lungs are just racked with it. It's just it's awful,
and all of us are positive for COVID. I'm probably the second worst,
to the point where the question was were they going to hospitalize me?
But I wasn't going to go allow that to happen. But I'm there with
my what that night in the hospital and I asked them to get me a
chair so I can lay back and go to sleep. And I could just
see it on the nursing space as they kind of looked at each other,
and I already knew it was going to happen. And they eventually came back
and they told me it was like, we're not going to kick you out
when you are not allowed to stay there could only be one person in the
room with your daughter because it was COVID isolation, right, And I,
my wife and I didn't really have a conversation. Was just kind of agreed
upon without any words, that she would be the woe that were to stay.
She wanted to, I wanted to, but I wasn't going to force
out and I had to walk out of that room that night and not know
where if I'd ever seen my daughter again. It's a long story short.
We were in there for another fifty three days. She listened to medically induced
coma for a month on a ventilator. Codd once when they extabated her and
they didn't give her the steroid to keep her throat from arm to keep her
throat from swelling closed after the excubation, and they basically had to force a
tube down in her again and do an emergency intubation again. The entire time
the Lord was with us there, she had to have at one point she
had to have chest tubs put in because her lung had popped. There was
a hole in her lung and they were going to they had excavated her and
they had put the camera orders. But it basically looks like a space mass.
I can't remember what the name of it is. And they put her
on that, but that wasn't helping her. She wasn't getting oxygen because she
had gotten the whole her along and they were going to reintubate her on a
Thursday, and the doctor had walked into the room. He had everybody in
their scrubs, everybody in the ante chamber ready to go, and he walked
in the room for one last look and he his worstle and my wife were
her reading just got better. And praise be to God that that happened,
because that Saturday, so this is the Saturday after I had been kicked out,
So Sunday had been kicked out, and she'd been in the whole week.
That Thursday they were going to reintubate her, and they were, but
that Saturday they my wife was found on the bathroom floor basically just crying and
a heap, in a fit because it was exhausted. She had COVID herself,
She had no access to anyone, she wasn't allowed to leave the room,
and she's it was just it was mentally just devastating to her. And
they finally got the doctor to say, like I did fermis. She for
my husband to come in today to see the family. And I had even
asked my wife this is to say come in and say you're a device.
Then she's like, no, this is come in and help your wife,
because she's like this is this is killing It was crushing me. Oh sure,
And so I come in that Saturday and I'm sitting in the parking lot
and the whole time I'm driving and I just have this sinking dread like slowing
over me. I had no reason to. They told me that my daughter
had been doing good. They told me that this wasn't a goodbye thing,
so it was just coming and you know, help give your wife some relief
and things like that. They were going to let her go home and wash
and take a shower and get a break. And I was going to stay
through that Saturday. And she didn't come back later that and I like they
would finally like being a little more mean. And I'm sitting in the parking
lot and I'm just sitting there for like five minutes and I didn't know why.
I was like, I don't know why I'm fearing this dread. And
my wife calls him. She's like, where are you like I'm in the
parking lot when I'm just sitting in here, and she's just like, you
need to get up here now. And I just like my heart sank,
and I run up and get in the elevator and I go to the floor
and I go into the war and there's just everyone's in there COVID gear and
they're running around. And I walk into the room and the doctor media who
looks at me, and he says to me, I need to intubate your
daughter. She has a hole in her lung. I cannot intubate her without
chilling her because if I put the if I put the tube in her and
blow air and t were long, it will just blow open the hole even
further and I will brush her heart. He said. As the same time
that I intubate her, I have to also put chest tubes in to draw
the air out of her chest. He says. I I've done both of
these procedures individually. I've never done them at the same time. I'm going
to do everything I can. And I said, I have prayed for you
to have wisdom and that the hands of God would be your hands. Please
door save my daughter. And I'm sitting there and he and two nurses are
working on my daughter, and my wife's sitting next to me and she's texting
her mom, and I'm just I've got my arm around her and I'm reading.
I just I glanced over and saw her text and she basically the texted
her mom is like, I feel like I'm dying inside right now. And
I just had this moment of like, why don't I feel that way?
And it was because the Lord was giving me a peace that I could not
understand. And again, long story short, the procedure work. He got
the chest tubes in and the intubation going, so it was measured out so
that he wasn't blowing the hole any larger. My daughter was able to start
rereading clearly again, and they were able to start draining the excess air out
of her chest. It was just this continuous dance of your daughter has no
how the doctor said it. Your daughter has no strength. We have no
ability and medication to do anything proactively. We just we can only react.
There's nothing we can do for her. My wife and I had no strength
to stop any of this. The only one that was saving my daughter was
Christ. So we're there for another fifty three days all this is going on.
She codes at one point, but we end up getting out of it,
and my wife is just adamant, like I want to get some shot,
or not shot, but a COVID shot. I want to get a
COVID shot for my daughter. And I was really struggling with as everything was
going on COVID at this time, and everybody was a lot of my friends
were basically like, we won't take the shot, we won't do anything like
that. And I had to go to First Corinthians and I had to recognize
that if an individual wanted to wear a mask, let them wear a mask
and give thanks to God for the mask that can in their eyes, but
that God had given them that as a protection. If somebody wanted to take
the booster shot to protect themselves, let them take the booster shot to protect
themselves, and give praise to God that he had given that medical advance that
that they could it can ingivied. You wanted to abstain from having a mask,
let them give praise to God that they have no needs for a masking.
If somebody wanted to not take a shot, let them give thanks to
God that they have faith enough not to take that shot. Whatever you do,
give thanks to God. Whether you're abstaining, give thanks to God that
you could abstain, Whether you partake, give thanks to God that you can
partake. I took the initial shot for the sake of my wife and her
mental well being. I am no better else since I took it. I
have no better offer if I didn't take it. It was entirely for the
well being of my wife mental She had hope that this would be efficacious for
my daughter. My hope was in Christ. I know that this shot has
no effect on me. I will. I know there's a lot of fear
that like these things will do things to your DNA stuff. I will die
the day that Christ calls me to die. No one in this world dies
before without the Lord's cassette, without the Lord's perission. I will die the
day that she tells me when I die. I'm not concerned in regards to
what effects it's going to have on me, because if it has any effects
on me, it's entirely because the Lord allows it. So I will not
war with an individual over whether they want to get a shot or a booster,
or wear a mask, or if they don't here's the thing. If
I have an individual, my job is to go forth and to preach the
Gospel and to give the good news. If I have an individual who will
not even talk to me because I'm not wearing a mask, I will put
on a mask because what's more important is to not give offense in anything.
Because the Gospel is the most offensive thing to the world, because you're telling
the world that its deeds are evil. So therefore I will put on the
mask in order that I may have that conversation with an INDIVI if an individual
would sit there and you know, to cry me and say you're wearing a
mask, I can remove the mask because a mask has no efficacy. It
is God who sustains me. Whether I wear a mask, whether I get
a shot or I don't, it is entirely the Lord's prerogative what happens for
me. My job is to be offensive in nothing, because the Jospel is
worth sentence. Man, Wow, what an incredible story. And I'm looking
at your picture here on zoom. You're holding your your your little girl so
as she's beautiful and your old family is and just man, that's an incredible
story. And I can't imagine you said it was fifty three days you had
to dure that in total, between the nick you and the pick you,
it was eighty seven days. Eighty wow. And with all that with COVID
going on at the same time, just I can't imagine. But you know
what they say, these type of things make you stronger and just a credible
story. Gee, I don't even know where to go from there, but
I'm just going to go in the order I have my notes because you had
mentioned the NDA of two thousand and nine, and I think there's a lot
of people who don't understand anytime that there's these omnibuses that they always stuff them
with what they call pork. And in twenty twelve with the NDAA was the
Smith Modernization Act, and that really is what allowed the United States to legally
push propaganda down our throats. And there's a great article from twenty thirteen I
think that talks about how the US government funded domestic propaganda has officially hit the
airwaves. It's really interesting, and this is something that's been harder for me
to wrap my head around as I've gotten older and further away from my time
in the military. Is you know, we claim to be one nation under
God. But when you stand back under a microscope, I can't imagine as
a government. I guess not the people. It's just like yourself. There's
so many wonderful people in this country, and it's amazing. It's almost like
when you see two dysfunctional parents, but the children turns out really well.
I think that's what the people of this country are. Because we have a
very evil government that lies, steals, and kills, yet we have so
many wonderful Americans. How do you, as an American look at where we
are today as a society. Well, my question always as first is we
have to define the terms. So I asked which God's That has been my
mantra lately. It says one nation under God? But who exactly is that
right? And I would testify to you scripture in Matthew seven of the Lord
tells us, and you will know them by their fruits. For out of
the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks the good man, out of
the goodness of this heart will speak goodness. But the evil man, out
of the evil of this heart, will speak evil. So if you're seeing
a government that is speaking and acting in an articular way, you can disserve
who that God is of theirs there, God is Lucifer, It's it's not
Christ. So they're one nation under the devil. And so I mean,
even when I hear people say God bless America, they don't actually recognize what
the scripture says is that America is not blessed. America is under judgment already.
Judgment's not coming. Judgment is here. God has given mankind over to
their luss. He has took his restraining hand off of the American people,
and he has allowed them to fornicate and go after all the wickedness that they
desire. It's exactly what Romans one too or one teaches is that his wrath
is the removal of his restraint, and he gives them over to the self
destruction of their flesh. America's God is the devil, and they are running
headlong after him. I am a citizen of the Kingdom of God. I
am a slave of Jesus Christ. I live in exile in America and in
the flesh. I am an American citizen. But as Hebrews eleven teaches me,
I look forward to a city that is built by God, to a
kingdom in a nation that comes from God, not built by hands of men,
but built by the spirit of God. This is not my home.
I am on a pilgrimage. I am in exile. I have a roof
over my head here, but my home is in Christ. Great answer.
That may be the best answer I've ever gotten, And that's something I'm only
compartmentalized, or not compartmentalized, but put in my back pocket. And that
is something that will help me kind of get through my thinking and my past
as I think about something that I put so much of my time and effort
in for twenty four years. As I was here and you talk, as
you were going through high school and all these things, I started doing the
math and I realized you were like a nineties kid, right teenage years in
the nineties, and that was really a time when even in pro wrestling,
the good guys or the bad guys were looked upon as the good guys.
And I always mentioned that nine to eleven was really them saying that, you
know, we're not hiding this cevil anymore. But when you go back and
look at the nineties, I think they were already starting to show their cards
when like being like, look at Beavis and butt Head and all these other
things. These things were champion. Do you think that had any part of
it to do with your your kind of the way of life? Oh yeah,
I was a huge fan of the attitude era of Www. E.
Stone Cold Steve Austin Austin three sixteen says, I just wit your You know
I had hurt John three sixteen, But I can tell you I never I
never knew what he was doing with that. I'd even seen it when he
was there at King of the Ring and he was standing up and he was
saying to Jake to say in some your Bible news preacher John three sixteen.
Well, Austin three sixteen says, I just and I was like I knew
even as a kid what he had said was wrong, but it was so
cool. It was so cool that he said something that was wrong and got
away with it and was just going after it. And he in The Rock
like in all I in all honesty, like The Rock was my first real
idol. Austin was awesome and I loved him, but The Rock was my
first real idol because he was just so charismatic and classy and just dominated every
situation. And I really wanted to emulate him because I was a very nerdy
kid. I was a very very tall, all skinned kid, and I
had no confidence, and I was I wanted to be like him, and
then every like I said for me more so it was role playing. I
was a I was a tabletop role player. I I went so up until
fifth grade when I was I was the recipient of that gang initiation beat.
Now, I had wanted to be a football player. I had wanted I
had wanted to be a ride receiver. I was huge into the San Francisco
forty nine ers. Jerry Rice and Steve Yarn were like my biggest idols at
that time. And we were doing fifth versus sixth graders on the softball field
and I caught the game winning touchdown and I was just so elated. And
then immediately one of the sixth graders, right is the bell wrong? We
won the game. At the end of recess, right is the bell wrong?
One of the sixth graders came over and kicked my legs out from under
me and sat on top of me and just started, it's so infantile now,
but started saying, justin say, sixth graders, rule of fifth grader's
drool and I was like five fifth or sixth graders a little fifth graders drool,
and he got up. But right about that time, two other sixth
graders, random and playing with us, came out with the field and they
started pretending like they were helping me up, and they were like, hey,
man, you know, it's okay, good game, and everything like
that. And our high school was kitty corner from our elementary school and right
across the street from our softball field. And I was really confused because I
didn't know, really I knew who these two guys were, but I never
interacted with them, and I didn't know why they were there. And I
could hear commotion behind me at the softball fans, and I looked and there
were like five or six high schoolers and they just pointed to me and they
said beat him. And they proceeded to just stop me into the dirt.
And at that point everything I had previous loved, previously loved like just went
away. Because the very next day, my mom went through a really big
issue of whether or not she was going to press charges, and one of
these kids, mom begged her to press charges against them because he had already
broken the second grader's hour, and she was pregnant with a new born,
and she was afraid for her and her child that he would do something to
them. So my mom ended up pressing charges against him. And I went
out to the softball field the next date to play football, which was my
life, which is exactly what I wanted to do. It was everything.
I loved it. All my friends were there, and so was one of
my abusers, and he looked at me as I walked out, and he
says, oh, sorry, guys, I can't play with you otherwise Alan
Boss's marble call the cops on me, and all of them laughed at me.
Everyone I thought was my friend, they all laughed at me, and
I don't know to this day where I went or what I did. I
splacked out and I walked away, And that was really one of those moments
where I just the hatred started like building me in this desire to never be
gotten over on again. I didn't want anyone to ever do that to me
again, and I started really I ended up finding more of a kind of
an outsider group of friends who were, you know, just the nerd gossip
kids and things like that. Got into Vampire, the Master Rate. It
just really fell into this love the demonic in the Satanic and the power that
it could give you, and the occultism in all of this dark demonology.
And I will get praise to God in that he he always put restraints in
my path, things to stop me. Always just this nonmenal Christianity that kept
me back from it. But you're absolutely right. The Nines was seating everything
and I was going headlong to evil. I was loving it. And even
back then, like as I said earlier, like serial killers were, they
were kind of like cult heroes. They were kind of like well not cull
infamous, you know, and you could get you could buy books on them
that would just give you information all over them. They were always documentaries,
Dateline, MSNBC and all these things would always do all of these like expose
as on them, and they would just make them so infamous. And there
was this, uh do you ever hear of the iceman Richard good Klinsky?
Sure, I remember watching his HBO specials, and that was I was even
in the early two thousands. But he was just so calm about the evil
that he was doing, and I was just erhaps you buy it. I
was so captivated by it. I was like, that is a man that
no one can do anything to. And I I will testify to you this
day that had God not put restraining me, I would have got the wrong
way. I would have become a murderer. And I know, I don't
say that in any sort of embellishment, because everything that I wanted to do
was an evil. I wanted to do harm to people and get away with
it. The only thing that stopped me was I had this sense that had
been placed in me as a kid that I would be judged. It wasn't
really even a conscious thought, it was just there, you know. So,
Yeah, the nineties were definitely deep into that. Yeah, and it
really a culminated in ninety nine. I'm doing the math. I'm figuring you
would have been probably a freshman or sophomore when when Columbine happened. How did
that affect you? Watched it on television and was not in any way polled
by it, To my shame, I remember watching that kid getting pulled out
out of the window of the second story by the swat team. Yeah,
and he's just covered in blood. And my response to it was not in
any way revulsion. I was not upset. I was doing I wanted to
see video of them killing. I wanted to see Cleveld and Harris killed her
people. I was searching for it everywhere I could. I I they never
really became idols to me because they were it was so like locked down at
that time, like as much as as much publicity as they got, there
wasn't a ton that was revealed, or at least me at that age back
of five, right, but there was. I would I would say my
re response was not the kind of response that shouldn't have happened. It was
wrong. Sure, and again, it's amazing to hear your story and to
where you are today, it is quite amazing. In the nineties, you
know, I was kinda missed the second half of the nineties because I was
in the military. But in retrospect it, like I said, I've been
looking at it recently, you could kind of see where things got a little
dark. And that's when everybody had the black hair and the jeans and the
con and you know, the music changed, everything became you know, I
felt like that's when we lost our smile to a certain extent, you know
what I mean. Oh, yeah, oh yeah, break stuff from Limbiscuit
was just it was an anthem. Yeah, there you were when those Woodstock
in the nineties, I can't remember what that when they when they basically started
a riot like it just it was it was this sense and this idea that
like evil gave you control. Yeah, it gave you pop, Like you
could just move an entire crowd to riot by just your words. And I
remember watching clips of it and it was just a sea of people undulating like
waves. It was just so amazing. And then to know that they were
going and then they started burning things down like that was where my mind was.
I didn't I didn't look at these things and say, man, that's
wrong. I looked at these things and that's power, that's awesome. Like
that's where I was for Christ, That's who I was, and that's what
I wanted. So yeah, I was definitely a product of the nineties.
You know, I was named you know Korn. I never got really I
think slip Knot was probably about it. I never got into what were they
call land God or the other system of the down. Oh no, I
was making the system of doubt. Yeah, but I mean you could just
you could open my CD my CD book, and I had all of those,
sure, all of them there and everything like that. And you I
never really listened to the lyrics other than, you know, to hear the
evil of them. You know, five finger death Punch in the two thousand
was near the end. Uh, Jacky and Hyde, I've got a demon
inside like that. I love that song. I loved fighting that song.
Marilyn Manson's New s was my was my intro music for m M A.
I walked out to it, this is the new blank. I'm not gonna
his words like that. Is it just it lit a fire inside it not
me emotionally, and just it filled you with this desire for power. There
you go. Uh do you attend the church? Yes? They do?
Oh good? Is it not? Is it denomination? Tell us a little
bit about it? How I go ahead? Sorry? What? No?
No? No go things they're there. Presbyterian. I believe I am.
I'm a non denominatory. I'm a non denominat national Christian. I am just
a Christian and I'm a slave of Jesus Christ. First Rinthians three teaches me
that I am not to divide with other teachers. I'm not going to name
myself after John Calvin. I'm not going to name myself after Martin Luther.
My teacher is Jesus Christ, who is God who teaches me. So I
am a Christian and nothing or I don't need to be an anymore, but
I would The church that I attend, though they are associated with the Presbyterian
Church, they are, they're teaching, They're generally non denomination good. That's
great because fellowship is important and being around like minded people is extremely important,
especially in these times. As as things begin to it seems like I get's
a little more difficult every day. It's great to have people to lean on
who are like minded and follow Jesus Christ. Absolutely something that has UH that's
on my mind a lot. It's it's again, it's one I try not
to dwell on things we can't control. At the same time, I think
I do believe NASA is very evil and is part of UH. You know.
I always say they're continuing the mission of Nimrod. I think it's that
they play that they're just you know, going into outer space and things.
But I honestly believe that they're doing things UH in Antarctica and around the world
trying you know, going back dominic, do you ever think about these things
or well, do I think so? I guess I should have phrased it
better. I think NASA is one of their primary missions in real life is
to try to overthrow God, even though we know they can't. I have
a hard time once again swallowing the fact that we print money for these people
every day, and their mission is to try to overthrow God and to deceive
our fellow brothers and sisters. Uh, not here but around the world because
we know, as we like, we'll use biblical cosmologists. That helio centrism
I call is, you know, I equate with evolution and the Big Bang
and helio centrism. These are three things that they use to hide God.
So I used to be dismissive of it. But the more I think about
it, the more upset I get that they teach our children. I go
back to the your children go to church for two hours and then they're spread
the theory of evolution and everything else. It's it's a battle. It's a
constant battle. And again, you can't overprotect your child. At the same
time, part of me like, what there's actually down by you? There
was a guy who stood up to a city council and said that NASA should
be audited to go after them. But again, nine of the people will
stand by and roll their eyes. Oh this silly guy. But what's your
take on NASA and what they're really trying to do. Yeah, I'm right
there in line with you, So I actually think you stated it well.
All of these things, as much as they are doing them there, their
desire is personally foremost to overthrow God, because just as I mean Christ is,
he is the ciper, He's the key to the cipher of every single
conspiracy theory, the Federal Reserve, builder, Bird, NASA, all of
these things, every single one. When you put in Christ, every single
Domino fauls, every single Domino is lands to deny him. NASA's entire purpose
is to lead men to a materialistic worldview, to keep our eyes on the
material instead of allowing the eyes of our hearts to be enlightened by the knowledge
and the wisdom of God and the faith of Christ Jesus. NASA is doing
exactly what you said. They are leading our brothers and sisters into unbelief and
drawing them astray from the spiritual of the scripture to the natural material of this
world, because they want us focus and fixated on the treasures of this world
which have no power to save. So yeah, I actually one hundred percent
agree. Awesome And for me, the two things I always keep it in
my truck. I keep devotionals tracks, the old school Christian tracks, and
a few Bibles. But I also carry around some flat earth stuff Biblical costmology,
and those are the two things that yelder, I get the easier for
it. I have no problem welcome up to complete strangers and striking up a
conversation. Have you had any luck obviously as a disciple of Christ, you're
out and about spreading the gospel? How do you approach spreading the Gospel?
And how do you approach sharing the knowledge of biblical cosmology? Obviously they go
hand in hand. Just I'll give you the opportunity to speak on that.
No, you're fine, I'm just I'm just a believer. That I just
stated it is that I will tell people as like the earth is flat,
and then like after they get over that stunned moment, people though they generally
and I could praise God for this is I think what He allowed me to
do in the year is that I was full of all that hatred. Confrontation
doesn't bother me. I absolutely thrive and love confrontation. I love a good
debate. I love a good physical confrontation. Not that I'm saying I want
these discussions. Whoever end up in a physical conversation, but it has taking
that steer out of me. So I will just flat out state and no
punt intended that the Earth is flat, the sea is level, there is
no horizon. I will I will discuss that to a point with individuals.
But because there is no salvation in knowing the earth is flat, it is
less concerning to me in regards to the gospel. There are those who I
know who believe in the heliocentric model, who are still saved to eternal life
now right, So they will come out to the truth, but they will
then will not save them, right. And it's more so interesting to me
because when I really started digging into flat Earth and saw like you get like
Eddie Bravo, and you'd get like Dave Weiss and others who would be confronted
with the direct questions, it was always the ones that would always sump them,
are why the lie and what about God basically and why the lie is
very simple. It's it's the most cliche answer aside from the fifty or seventy
million a day, which everyone doesn't want to talk about God will talk about.
What the answer is. The lie is to deny Jesus Christ because if
the Earth is proven to be flat inside of a terrarium, basically there must
you must infer created it's turning. Must it's And once you recognize the Earth
is flat and not a globe spinning in space, our space goes away.
The Big Bang goes away, Now evolution goes away. They all fall when
this foundational lie goes away, every single one, because once the Earth is
no longer a globe spinning in space, the space isn't what they tell you.
And afore, if you don't have space, you don't have the Big
Bag. If you don't have the Big Bang, you don't have Evolution.
Flatters destroys all of that. And this is just I'm sorry, go ahead,
I thought you were done. No, but we brought into this issue
where we get to we get individuals to the point of, okay, all
of this is a lie. But then we ask the royal question of what
is the truth, the actual correct question, because that's actually what Piot asked
Christ to this crucifixiate. What is truth? The answer is not what,
but who? Who is truth? Jesus Christ in John fourteen six says,
I'm the way, I am the truth. I am the lis. No
one compass to Sawther butts through me. So when we talk about truth,
and when Romans one eighteen tells us that in unrighteousness, the ungodly suppressed the
truth, it's not that they're suppressing Flatter, It's not that they're suppressing nine
to eleven. It's not that they're suppressing what they're doing at NASA or with
the Bilderberg organization or with the Federal Reserve, and is things. The truth
they are suppressing is who is Jesus Christ. And so they do that by
all these various means. Because when I run, I running into a lot
of my Christian brothers who they are stuck in this conspiracy mindset. And I
will testify that I was there early on in my walk as well, because
I was a critical thinker before I was a Christian, and I started seeing
once I knew that Christ was true, and I started seeing how all of
these lies were being built up. I was building an idol in my heart
of hatred. I was spending more time hating the kingdom of the Devil,
focusing and fixating on the evil that he is doing, than I was on
actually studying the word of my God and loving him and the gifts that has
been given. Unto me, It's actually a very insidious deception because the enemy
doesn't care if you hate him. He doesn't care that you're looking at him
and exposing everything he's doing in the material. He cares that you do not
look at or acknowledge Jesus Christ and the Spirit spot on. Well done.
We are down to our last ten minutes. So I want to give you
the opportunity if there's any other bullet points that you had light up that you
wanted to express to our listeners. Now'd be a great opportunity to do that.
Yeah. So basically it runs down to this is when we come,
when we come to a knowledge of the truth or fact in regards to Flatter
and we run into these issues where you get men like Dave Wise and praise
me to God for what he's doing and revealing in these interviews and these debates
with individuals that to Earth is not what they say it is. But he
always comes to this point where individuals Addie Brow did it, others do it,
where they come to this point where they will be confronted with the discussion
about God. Because again, once you start recognizing that the flat the earth
is flat, and it is not what they tell us in space is not
what they tell us, you must infer a creator. You must have that
presupposition. It just happens because you recognize you are in a created system.
And then they will be confronted with that question, and then they always basically
throw up their hands and say, well, boo, I'm not saying God,
you do without what you want. And that baffles me when I hear
that, because if I look at a table and I recognize all of the
dimensions of the table and realize that this table was created, the truth is
not in the table. I can recognize facts about that table, I can
acknowledge different aspects of its design, but the table receives no honor. It
is the one who made the table. So it it's again, it's so
the devil is willing to allow us to go to this point of you can
know that I've been lying to you. You can know that the earth is
flat, you can start doing all these things. He doesn't care if you
know that, so long as you fall into Deism, so long as you
go into Buddhism, so long as you go into Hinduism, or you start
going to New Age theology, or start believing in these or you start diving
into these dimensional beings. Because the next question is, well, then if
space is are real, what are aliens? Well, they're demons. So
then you just start dying adadlong to all of this study on demonology and ayahuasca
and how men are interacting with these things all the while I'm not looking at
Christ, I'm looking everywhere else. Right, So well is allowing us to
call ourselves truthers. The true truthers are Christians because Jesus Christ is the truth.
If you want to be a truth or you must be a Christian.
Jesus Christ, as I am the truth, he either is right or he
is wrong. If he is right, then all who are truthers are Christians.
And so we get to this point where we get all of this knowledge.
But this knowledge, as Scripcher says, knowledge without love puffs up what
love verse John fourth eight and sixteen tells us that God is love. So
if I have knowledge, but I do not have love, who is God?
I am puffed up. I am exalting myself in my own wisdom wisdom
of the world, and thinking I'm wiser than I actually am. And scripture
tells me that God traps the wise in the roty seat. He destroys them
by it. He has made foolish the wisdom of this world. So let
any of you who were desired to be wise become a fool in this world.
As first Corictius three eighteen, I must instead seek the wisdom of God,
which is Jesus Christ. James one to five tells me, if any
of you lacks wisdom, let him ask. God gives abundantly to all who
ask without reproach. But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the
one who doubts is like a weighty tossed by the wind. He is out
the stable in all his ways. He must not believe that he will receive
anything from God. Now, if I apply that, as the car world
teaches me, I'm looking for worldly wisdom, wisdom about materie of things.
But if into the study of Scripture. First Corinthians one on twenty four and
thirty teaches me that Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God. So James one
to five is actually telling me, if any of you lacks Jesus Christ,
let him acts God, and he will give him to you abundantly without reproch.
And so when you have these have this knowledge of the flat earth,
that's wonderful. That is a tool to go forward recognize and dismantle all the
lives of the devil. But it must lead to the truth. Flat earth
is not the truth. Christ is the truth. Flat Earth is a fact.
Biblical cosmology is a fact. But the fact must come to the logical
conclusion of God. Otherwise it is a dissection that will destroy to you in
your own pride and arrogance. It can do it to any of us.
I am just as guilty as any of all or that it's only by God's
grace that He has shown me who is the truth. And then Scripture tells
me, and I'm going to go to Isaiah chapter twenty eight, but sorry,
because again when we get into these debates, and we'll get into these
discussions, I run into this all the tide and with people who profess to
be Christians. They'll say, and I start debating with them about how Jesus
Christ is the true Israel of God. It's not this nation in the Middle
East, or how there are Romans two twenty and twenty nine tells me that
a true Jewish someone who was circumcised in their heart, not only in the
flesh. And they'll say, well, that's just your opinion, that's just
your interpretation, Okay, that's fair. The question is is there such thing
as truth? The answer is yes. The truth by definition is exclusive.
There is a person who declares he is the truth, and that is Christ.
So then we must we must understand that his interpretation and his understanding and
his opinion are what matter. So I could have the milliarion different opinions about
what scriptures say, the only one that matters is what christ Us and Isaiah
fifty four or thirteen. The scriptures say that Yahweh in the latter days,
Yahweh will be their teacher, and blessed will be the peace of all your
children. Christ quotes that in John six forty five, and he says it
says in the prophet that God will be their teacher and anyone who learns from
the Father comes to me. And in John's thirteen thirteen, the same gospel
epistle, he says, you call me teacher and master, and or sheater.
You can call me lord and teacher, And you say so right four,
I am. He's telling us, I am God who teaches you.
So therefore I must listen to his understanding. And so if I go to
Isaiah twenty eight, and I start in Isaiah twenty three, there's this very
interesting passage in Scriptures twenty three through twenty nine, but we'll go through twenty
six. It says, get a ear and hear my voice. Give attention,
and hear my speech. So he's telling us paid attention to what comes
next. Does he who plows for sobo and plow continually, does he continue
it open and hair of his ground? When he is leveled as surface,
does he not scatter dill? So Cuban put in wheat and rose and barley
in its proper place and emer as the border. For he is rightly instructed,
is God teaches him? That is an incredible promise that I, as
a man who am seeking and yearning and hungering for truth, I have the
promise written in the scripture that if I can rightly hear and listen and divide
this scripture, I will know that I am instructed by my God, who
teaches me. So the question is is how do I understand this? Well?
Again, Christ tells us, I am God who teaches you. So
what does he teach us? It will go to Mark Ford starting in verse
thirteen, gives us a parable that is in the Synoptic Gospel, which is
the parable of the sword. But I like the mark for version, because
this is what he says at thirteen. So this is Mark four thirteen.
And he said to them, do you not understand this parable? How then
will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the word. Now he
asks that in a negative form. Is a question. If I'm to flip
that and turn that into a statement, I must turn it from a negative
to a positive. So the question that goes from do you not understand this
parable? How then will you understand all the parables? Too? If you
understand Dan was perable, you will understand all the parables. And Scripture teaches
us that Christ spoke nothing to us that was not imparable. But he gives
the knowledge to his disciples. Isaiah eight teaches us that he stores up the
testimony in his disciples. So it's not a coincidence that this is the understanding
that God, who teaches us, says, this is the parable that will
give you understanding of all the parables. And it just so happens to be
a parable about sewing, which you get if we go back to Isaiah twenty
eight. It's a parable about sewing. And God says that the Word who
understands us knows that he's rightly instructed, and as God teaches him and the
sower shows the word. So this is either to be under Isaiah twenty eight,
twenty four, and twenty five. Is either to be understood literally andcarvally
and about how to be a good subsistence farmer and therefore I can create crops
in this world, or it's teaching me how I'm supposed to rightly preach the
gospel, to declare the word of God, and the way the Lord taught
me this was I was so when I first came to Christ. I was
so fearful that my wife would die without knowing God, a go to hell,
that I was preaching the gospel to her in hate I was basically saying
to her, how can you be so ignorant? How can you not understand
this? This is the easiest thing in the world. It's so clear,
not at all recognizing that I had, for twenty nine years of my life
denied him. Right, But I was so fearful that I would preach the
gospel to her but in hate, and then I wouldn't see her come to
Christ. And so I would preach it again, and I would preach it
again. But if I was if I take that, if the seed that
is soul is the word of God, and I sow that into the ground,
which first fornth Day's three nine tell me that the people of God are
God's field, they are the ground, they are his harvest steel. So
if I'm sowing the word of God and my wife, but then I have
no patience, then I give no chance for that word to grow, for
it says that God is the one who gives the grow. And then I
go appreciate again, I might just I'm just like a farmer who goes and
sows the seed one night, it comes out the next morning, he says,
oh, it didn't grow. So he harrows up and plows the ground
again and sows another seed, folds at dirt over it again, goes to
sleep, comes back out. Ah, it hasn't grown. Man just does
it. It keeps doing it. It will never grow. I must instead
sow the word, trusts the one who gives the growth. And I must
then go out and sew different seed among others. I must again not saying
that the seed itself is different. For the Word of God is truth.
It's Jesus Christ. But the plant that rises from that is a different man,
is a different person. It is a different individual who bears different fruit,
all of whom have the fruit of the spirit. And so this is
how our God teaches us. And there are so many Christians who don't know
that. They don't recognize that they can be rightly instructed. They can know
that God teaches them and Scripture tells them they can well done, well done.
And we are out of time. But it's been an incredible journey with
you for the last ninety minutes. And I don't know if you know it,
but you have a book in you like legitimately you could. That's you
quite a story from start to finish your journey. And of course it's not
over. The book is not as far from being written, you know.
But but what incredible story, what a journey, and I'm really anxious to
follow you along and to see where you go with this. And I hope
your message. I'm sure it will resonate with a lot of people, and
I hope they share your story. And I know there's going to be a
lot of people reaching out to you. Uh, you know, wanted to
pick your brain and to meet you and chat with you because your journey is
incredible from you know, what you had dealt with as a teenager and the
things you endured as a young adult into uh you know, being a father
of three, and what you went through with your daughter. God bless you
and your family, and just what a wonderful story. And it was great
to meet you. And I'll I'll give you the last minute here to address
the audience as we closer. Well, I I appreciate that, but I
would just I want to say that any any praise or anything like that,
let that be given to God. Lots of me. If I speak anything
today that you have heard that is that you recognize as true, is shots
of me Christ. If I speak anything rightly let it be the glory be
giving begin to God. Because everything that I have talked about I have received
through the Lord. There's nothing in me that wates for me. It's from
Him. If there is a book that is inside me, let it be
the bifle that there you go so again, and I'm really grateful for the
opportunity to meet with you. I was really nervous about coming out here because
I didn't know what the Lord would allow me to speak today. I didn't
know where he would let me go with it. But again, may it
just be for the edification of the saints that those who are called to Christ
may hear it and they may recognize that He is the Way, the Truth,
and the Life. And therefore, if they truly if any person would
truly desire it, call themselves a truther, let them call themselves a Christian
or Christ is the truth a man well said. And I will tell you,
with somebody who's been in the truth community for a long time, I've
come to understand that as well. I really haven't. God he led me
to your podcast because like I had actually closed out the the iPhone or iTunes
podcast thing, and I'm only doing it Amazon now and I had never heard
of your podcast before, and I was just looking for a flat Earth podcast
and yours was like the only one that came up. And I was listening
to an interview and it was you. I can't remember who it was,
but you basically started talking about Christ and I was just like what amen Like,
it's incredible and I immediately wanted to meet you and know you and hear
hear about you. And I know this isn't this is your show to interview
me and things like that, but I would love an opportunity to just hear
your testimony as well, because you are It's been great to listen to your
podcast. I greatly appreciate that. And likewise, all gloria to God forgiven
me the courage and forgiving me the support, the support, uh my wife.
You know, I would venture to say that there's a lot of people
whose wives may not be so much for this forum, with this thought process,
but you know, she's my rock and she has always supported me.
And uh, you know, glory to God and for my family and forgiving
me the courage to do this because you know, being on a I'm not
a big name or anything like that, but you're always going to catch flack.
And I know when I speak with conviction, I don't honestly care what
the negative thoughts and the things that are thrown at me. I just hope
that it bounces off and I always come back humbly right because it's you know,
as a Christian, you want to lead by example, and I just
say, hey, thanks for the email. Thanks, I kill them with
kindness, Thanks for listening to the podcast. So you know, it's important
what we do here, and with a fact hunter and everything. It's something
that started as I saw human suffering firsthand on many occasions. And I was
just a nice Palestine, Ohio last week and my heart felt for those people.
You know, this stuff happens around the world. But at the same
time, I know at the end of the day that in the truth community
and I think more people are realizing it all leads back to the Gospel of
Jesus, and I'm thankful that, you know, he'd led me to start
this podcast, and I've been able to meet so many strong Christians like yourself,
So again, Justin, it was really a pleasure to meet you.
Oh same for you, jord it was I'm really grateful to God for the
opportunity. Thank you, and to all the listeners, thank you for your
continued support and for your emails and your messages. It's been a one full
journey here in this I guess year and a half already one hundred and fifty
plus episodes. I've got to meet so many wonderful people from around the world,
and we've got more people coming in the near future. Again, reach
out by email if you'd like to join us, like Justin did this even
and God bless each and every one of you, and keep your head on
a swivel. And until we meet again, my friends, we will see
you. I know it's been a struggle. I don't know if you've had
spain fee the time? Hell down about all the way? Yeah? I
know you feel more. Your smile ain't the same I saw well go from
you feel like you've lost your way. Don't give up. No, don't
give in and never on this home. Don't let go the primise. He
ain't done yet, he's gone up plaid. Why it's your right time?
Got up? Let me come? Why afraid? Got up? Y go?
I can see straight beside you, child's are putting up the fid.
Oh you're stronger than anything you. Yeah, you're gone, be all right,
you're accepting a dead value. Beautiful you're shoving bride. Yeah, you're
live and breathe move, you can hold your head of hide. Don't give
up, No, don't give in, never lose home. Don't they go
on the primise? It ain't dounion's got a plan? WA's a way?
Tell the God of Merica. Don't give up? No, don't give in,
never lose home, don't let go on the promise? It ain't confess
worth live man? What's a plain down? The god may call? WHA's
a place down? Tavy? Co oh? Yeah, what's a break out
the god t co oh? Yeah? You got tv cor. Don't give
up, No, don't give in? Never sol do they go of the
primise? I mean and don yehs got a play? What's a kind of
ey cos? Don't give no dog giving? Never hold? Do they go
the primes? It ain't done? Love's worth even watch and God of in
coors all the God of needs? Why the God of your you're listening to
the Fact Hunter Radio Network. Just the facts, ma'am,