What is up, fellow Dermo nuclear affers. I am Dana Valley coming at you with another NBA team look ahead. We're on to the Dallas Mavericks, and I'm incredibly excited to talk to I think for the first time in years, face to face or via podcast. Kirk Henderson, the editor in charge of MAVs moneyball dot Com. He's also a dog lover, which I very much appreciate, and he wants willed Luka Doncics to the Dallas Mavericks. I think you deserve credit for that. Follow him on Twitter at Kirk serious face that that's spelled exactly as it sounds. At Kirk with AKA serious face. Kirk, the most important question I'll ask on this podcast, how the hell are you doing? I'm okay, okay, I'm I'm slowly, y'all. I'll be ready for regular season basketball. It's ready for preseason. I'll watch one preseason game and I'm done the preseason and I'm just like ready for real games that matter. I say every year, I can't do preseason, and I invariably end up watching like some of it. I can't deal with the preseason takes where people are just ready to jump off a cliff or or you know, leap to the heavens or something. I can't I just can't buy too much into what I see during the preseason. Sure, sure, And that was how you know, Mavericks played were recording on what day is it? Thursday the sixth, and the MAVs played their first preseason game against the Thunder on Wednesday night, and it was, you know, rife with overreaction. And that can be fun the first time, it's fun. By the third preseason game, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be really tired of it. Uh yeah, I amen to that. And I will say that the Dallas Mavericks had like one of the more eventful, uneventful offseasons just with them being you know, involved in the whatever Jail Bruncheon's departure. And I think it's best to start that. They did trade for Christian Wood, obviously get Jaden Harvey as well, so Val, but Jail Brunson, I think we need to start there. Where do you land on his exit? Like entering this season, do you think the impact of his departure, especially on a national level, when you have you know, idiot talking heads like me saying things do you think it's being oversold or do you think that he's it's gonna they're gonna end up really feeling his absence. I think they're gonna end up really feeling his absence. But I also think it was and a move that had to happen sooner rather than later, because Brunson, for his and he's a really unique player, really is. I think fans that aren't familiar with him, he's he's basically a six foot three power forward. His footwork is incredible, He's he's still learning to be a willing three point shooter. But at the end of the day, it's like six one, and how far are you going to get in the league with your second best player, whatnot being as small as he is, and the Mavericks and he and Luco were not really a great defensive pairing on the backcourt, and so the Mavericks are probably going to have to figure out a way to move from him sooner than later. I wish that they would have been able to, you know, figure out some sort of sign and trade or better yet, if they knew he was leaving at all Star break, then they probably should have traded him, you know, by the trade deadline, and so that that element is a pretty big whiff there. They don't really have a means to replace him. I think that that if Luca don Chi can play a healthy season and not miss like fifteen games, then they're probably not going to miss Brenson too much. But if they run any end to any kind of health concerns, they're going to miss him a great deal. And even just during the non Dontech minutes, right, you still have Spencer Dinwitty, but now because you have Dinwoody and Dontech, you almost have to rigid like there are stints where neither of them are on the court, Like who is handling the ball for this team? Me at the moment, I think I'm third string point guard. I would say they've thrown out Frank Milikina, which is a riot because Frank Milikina is at this point in his career slowly transitioning to be like a ninth man three and d wing at best. He just he doesn't have great ball handley skills. He's also not a great decision maker. The other person that they've short term try in the role is a third or foward Josh Green, and he's got bad He's you know, I'm sure we'll talk about him a little bit. He's he's looked okay, uh And I think if you can eat ten minutes a game doing that where he's you know, extending possessions and bringing the ball up the floor and getting into their offense, then maybe they can make it work. But it's a little dicey right now. Before getting into more of him and some of the other players in the roster, were you annoyed or concerned that they didn't seem to be more aggressive and finding some way to replace, like even just get a third ball handler over the offseason or was this very much a you know, they had the mini mL E like they're not I don't want to say they're trade asset baron, but just that obligation. That's that's the that's the start and the end of it is they went, you know, they've had a string of bad luck. So when you when you draft Luca don Chich but you have to give up a draft pick to go get him, and then you move on from two more draft pick to go get Christaps porzingis they just don't have a lot that they could do, and so the current front office is inheriting kind of a I don't want to say, like the books aren't great. They just have to figure some things out and there's you know, they moved on from Porzingis salary, but all they really did was split it in two with Dinwiddie and Davis Burton, So they just didn't really have a lot of options. I think there could have been some guys that they pursued for veteran for like veteran deals minimums, but nothing that really would have moved the needle. And to me, it's like they've not come out and said this because no team's gonna do this. But I've been referring to this as a bit of a year where the Mavericks take their medicine because they have to get out from under from some of these obligations that they owe to then see what they can do, because you know, they just signed like this is Luca's fifth year, so it's his first year on this you know rookie max extension where he's making like thirty seven to forty three million dollars a year over the life of the deal. So they have him. It's a five year extension, but really it's four years. It's player option and then if we're being honest with how the NBA trade market works, they have like three seasons to figure something out, So the next big trade they make is gonna be the last big trade they make, so they just they have to be patient and hope that sort of Luca carries them through. How do you feel about the when they're on the court together, the Don Chitch and Dinwoody fit versus how the fit was with Don Chichen Brunson, It's different. Like they sort of had like a triple like a triple option in football, where all three guys would do the like they had the same role, but they did things all very differently. Dinwoody, I'm looking forward to seeing what he does this year. He played a great twenty five games, probably some of the best basketball he played in his entire career. Shot like thirty nine percent from three, and he's like a thirty one percent three point I was looking he was at like forty two plus percent on catching shoots and down it was wild. So it's it's if he can manage to play even splitting the difference between his career averages and what he did last year, I'm gonna be very pleased. I think He's such an interesting player. His arms are real long, he has nice which results in him getting foul the locks. He goes to the rim and guys, you know, think they can block a shot, so he hangs there an inch more and get hit on the wrist. I like him, him and Luca as a pairing. I'm gonna be curious to see how that works like game to game, particularly with the you know NBA franchises nowadays, Like I feel like they rest somebody every ten games or so, so it's, you know, how much time will they really get on the floor together. Will they be closing games, you know, starting games? It's Spencer seems very open to a lot of different roles, so it's it's gonna be it's gonna be fun. How much do you think the like the Dallas His spacing seemed to really help him where didn't what he was getting to the rim a lot more often once he got to the MAVs, and that's like an element where he gets there a little bit more often than Joe and brunsonause he likes to follow through in his drives a bit more. Do you think that ends up like benefiting this team having someone like that hope so because I got to really draw more fouls. That was one aaron where Brunson wasn't great and really nobody passed, Luca was great. And Luca doesn't get foul calls one because he's big, and two because he never shuts up. So those like two things go together. It's because Luca's second year he averaged like nine point two free throws. Now he averages like seven point two and on the same number of drives. Like there's a reason for that. So I didn't why. It's like that sort of stuff really matters over the course of eighty two games. It's like you're just getting the line, even if it's like one and a half more times a game, it really adds up. And I'm hopeful for that because you know, there's there's other guys in the roster that that like to put the ball on the floor and get to the rim, and any sort of getting it like rim attack, I think benefits this offense a great deal. The other thing I'm wondering too, at least for the regular season. I didn't send this to you in the outline, but what just happens if Luca don chiches Luka Donchich from day one for this team, and maybe we're not factoring that in enough where last year it felt like it took him like two months or whatever it was to really work his way into shape and then just dominated enters the fringes of the top five MVP discussion. And does that help if he's just like ready and just beaunted from day one? Is that helped paper over Brunson's absence a lot more than we're crediting. I think so. And that's that's where it's like the over underlines I think are sort of not and not kind of giving Brunson a bit too much importance to the overall, to the overall MAVs, you know where they're heading. Luca was really he was out of shape. Two seasons in a row. They had two really bad starts the post code Like the first COVID year, he came in real heavy and then everyone had COVID problems, so that's kind of a wash. But last year he was he was very heavy. He was Tim McMahon thinks he might have voided as much as two hundred and seventy pounds on which is hilarious. On like entry to camp and such. You know once he finally really started to get it together by mid January, that was fine. And they're playing five hundred ball. If they could just play slightly above five hundred basketball, I'm gonna feel pretty good about what they're capable of this season. As you sort of already alluded to, the MAVs and MAVs Twitter seems very much smitten with the training camp at Josh Green, and that what is most intriguing about him entering this year. He looks like he could play basketball. Okay, it's it's a wild concept, the professional basketball player being able to play basketball. He's been really bad for two years. He was not the right pick for this team in twenty twenty, paired with the COVID situation where there was no summer league training camps, everything was shortened, and then he was with Rick Carlisle, who is just not he's just not good with rookies. The MAVs push back out on Indiana for him, by the way, Yeah, it's it's but I mean, he likes smart players, and he likes players who knows what they're doing. And Green was a, you know, a freshman, young guy without a lot of basketball experience, and you got to play basketball in order to get better at it. And I was really you know, he played a little better last year, but still was too tentative and in training camp right now, he just looks like he just looks like he's come bole with what he's doing. And so I'm trying not to rain on anybody's parade when when I talk about this with MAVs fans, but like learn, you know, dribbling and going to the rim and you know, looking confident in your shot, like shouldn't be prerequisites first being super fired off? Right? Are they going to give him like a chance to be I guess like that third ball handler them? Is that even the way his game is best? Suit. I went back and was watching a little bit of Josh Green last night, and he had like some like smarter recognition on passes than I remember watching last seasons. I didn't see a whole lot Josh Green. Surprise surprise. But I'm just like, and I told you I'm a Frankie lacking a believer. But in the vein of what you just said, you make him a three and d wing, you don't make him your third ball handler. And so like, are they really gonna try and Shoehorn, Josh Green. In those minutes, do we see even maybe Jaden Harvey get a crack at at this thing as a rookie. I bet they do try some stuff with Green because Green is not best suited as a catch and shoot player. His his athleticism and the way he plays his energy is sort of frenetic, and it's really unorthodox to a degree because he does like weird Dwayne Wade jump passes and kind of sees the game a little bit differently. I bet they try it now whether it works as a whole nother story. Jaden Hardy. Jadon Hardy's also not a point guard. He's a scoring guards. He gives me sort of Tim Hardaway junior vibes. If I'm honest, really confident shooter will dribble, believes he can dribble. Also can apparently look to his left or is right, because when he gets double teamed, it's a turnover. At least that's what happened in Summer League. But you know, in his one preseason game last night, he looked out standing. Shot the ball a ton. I don't think he's the guy for this year. If if he's playing a lot with the Mavericks thing. He's either been unbelievable, which for pick thirty seven would be kind of outlandish, or the Mavericks are really bad. Those are kind of the two choices. So at this point, do we just expect to see heavy staggering of Dinwoody Luca or is this a situation where it's almost like, well, you know, Kemba is gonna get out of Detroit eventually and we're gonna just sign him. Like I don't, I don't really understand how to read this situation because my gut instinct would have been, if you're gonna rely this much on Lucas, it seems like you're going to just continue bringing Spencer did what he off the bench, But it does seem like they're gonna start him, and so I'm just curious, how like, is there just gonna be a ton of staddery in them? I don't know what the other solution here is with like those lineups, I don't either, And that's where Kid and then Nico Harrison their their second year GM just have their work cut out for them, because I think you know, when you look at it on paper and you say, okay, in a seven game series, how do we feel about this team. Not bad because you're playing game to game, but the grind of an eighty two game season. You know, I think most fans sort of forget. You end up playing ten eleven guys most nights. You're not playing in eight man rotations too long, and you get outside the Mavericks eight man rotation. There's Green sitting there, There's Frank Nilkina sitting there. It's a little uncomfortable, and you don't want to lose those minutes horribly, because while as good as the Mavericks could be on offense, they just have a lot of defensive questions. They were really good on defense during stretches last year, primarily because you know, they started playing really good in January. Well, January February is when teams hit sort of a slog and things go awry. They also just sort of connected at the right time. Christaps Porzingis ended up getting traded, and there was a bit of a you know, post Porzingis bomb where things looked really, really good. But you can only rely on commitment to a defensive scheme for so long before teams start to scout it out. It's like which guys over rotate which guys are really easy to attack on the dribble. There's and that's what happened to the Mavericks Western Conference Finals, Like the Warriors just destroyed them and it didn't didn't even look like like much of a Western Conference Finals team. And that's they just need more talent. And unfortunately, I don't see, you know, I don't see a real way for that to happen. There's a lot of banking on second round and undrafted guys, and I know once you're in the league that doesn't matter as much, but the pedigree and the talent level for the Mavericks past Luca is just a little makes me a little uncomfortable. Yeah, I guess if you're really thinking about it, like, is their second best player? Do we just Penzil and Dorian Finny Smith? Is that or is it s bencer Dinwiddie At this point, That's a tough question. Man. We asked the whole staff about this, and I got two thousand words of responses from like twelve people because there's so many different opinions, Like it's probably Dorian Finney Smith because of what he brings as a complete player, you know, he's like the ideal fifth player for a championship team. He would just do so many things for so and he's so well, like he's compensated in a way that makes him so attractive. But it's, you know, it's either him or Spencer Dinwiddie at this point, like Christian would will I think maybe make an argument for that if things pan out right, but it's it's just it's you know, the loss of Brunson sort of exposes a talent deficit. What is sege can tell you're a podcasting veteran, do you have any one preseason game in but also having thought about it for a couple of months, now, what are your just your thoughts of the Christian Wood trade and is fit and I guess your expectations for him this season. So let's go back to when the trade happened. It happened during the draft. Now, apparently, with the way the NBA works, the Brunson deal was all but done at this point. We didn't know that. At the time. I thought it was a great gamble because you're bringing in a guy who's in a contract year, who hasn't really worked out anywhere. But there's just so much talent fast forwards. Now, the Mavericks need him to be good and through a public practice on NBA TV, a public scrimmage that the MAVs have called fan jam, and through one preseason game, Jason Kidd is going to hate him defensively. He cannot play defense at this point in time. I don't know if it's an effort thing. Part of me feels like it might be, but he'll think it's a big if you watch him on like some plays where he actually does things. I really think it's a huge effort thing, which is probably infuriating, especially when a guy's in a contract here and it's gonna, well, it's gonna be infuriated for him because I just don't know if KI will play him that much. Last night, for example, JaVale McGee, who the Mavericks also signed for some damn reason, it's supposed to be the starter and he's out with an ankle injury and they still put in Dwight Powell over Christian Wood. That says a lot to me, even though it is preseason. It's slide over reaction, effort and stuff. I think will matter a great deal for Kid and Wood's either going to figure that out or he won't what Matt what Dallas gave up for him. You know, it's like a twenty seventh pick something like that, paired with a couple of back end roster guys. Gamble's good. I just worry because he's they're gonna need his scoring. He's a really good rebounder. But if you can't fit into like Luca and Christian Wood defensively is just a you know, it's a turnstile, like he just can't do it. And kid builds his teams on defense, and I'm just really curious as to how they're going to make this work. He's either gonna get it or he's not. Given that you're worried about how he plays with Luca, and then also the fact that you are going to start Spencerdinty alongside Luca dn then does that sort of explain why he's coming off the bench. I know there was the jokes where he said that, oh, I didn't know I was coming off the bench. When you watched the video, he very much seemed like he was being sarcastic when he said that. So I don't know that that book he did. I didn't he say something about whether he's starting might factor into contract negotiations. I still just I can't bring myself to care because it's Christian Wood, But does it make sense to bring him off the bench when looking at the makeup of this team. I do for now, though I don't know how long it'll last. JaVale McGee has spoken about how important starting was for him, which, again, why are we caring what JaVale McGee wants in the year twenty twenty two? Just be sared what Dalan Smith wanted in the year two? Well, and I understand that, like the other team competing for McGee was actually the Bucks, So it's like, oh, we could go play for you know, really very good team or a pretty good team, and the Mavericks offered him three years. That is what it is. But it's with what I think. If he's able to show value that he and Luca, for example, are just so lethal, then I think he'll eventually make his way into the starting five. He's essentially a six foot eleven wing. He's not a big man. He's got really nice handles. You watch highlights this guy, he looks like one of the best basketball players ever live. Like his highlight tapes are incredible because of his skill level, but he's just not been able to put it together for a variety of reasons, and a lot of them up until Houston. I would say, we're absolutely like his fault, Like he signed with Houston expecting to play with John Wall and then everything just went sideways. So maybe maybe we'll get to see it's it's this is his last big chance to make money. You know, he might He'll probably be in the league for another seven eight years because of the talent level, but he'll be signing two three million dollar deals. If he wants another eight figure contract, this is the year to earn it. And also coming off the bench puts him in a situation or he should have like pretty heavy agency over the offense and the MAVs pathway to like, let's say winning the non Dontis minutes and even if Spencer Diner's out there, it's Tim Hardaway Junior is healthy and hitting threes and maybe knocking down some of those pull ups he likes to take, and then Christian Wood is just really fucking good, Like that is their pathway to staying afloat in the non Donte minutes. It feels like yeah, yeah, and that's not a bad offensive plan. It's just defensive plant the Christian would Tim Hardy or Tim Hardaway. Defense is not going to be staunch. Yeah, he played like defense for half a season in Atlanta. I think he was pretty good. So maybe THHJ has sort of renaissance there. But JaVale McGee, you've kind of already talked about him. How did you feel about that signing? And you already mentioned the decision to like I get starting was important. Hm, you already sort of outlined that stuff. But what does he bring to this team? Like, why does he make sense for this team? Or did you not even want the Mavericks to sign him when you look at the rest of the bigs on their roster? Apparently, and so I've been lectured about this by sourced people in the Dallas media who you know, talked with the team, and this is in people's writings. I'm not saying anything out of school here, but so many apparently McGhee has really turned himself around into being a positive locker room presence. I lived in Washington, DC for a real long time. I was there the whole time. McGhee was a wizard. I knew some reporters who covered him when he went to Denver's apparently very uncharitable with media. Not he has never like he's never really done much ever. He's been in the league forever. He has three championship rings, but as one of my colleagues pointed out when in the bubble, he didn't play a minute during the finals. So it's like, JaVale McGhee, Champion, Congratulations for your participation trophy. It's you know, and he has two more with the Warriors, which you know, you and I could get a ring with the you know, those those Warriors teams with Drant and such. So it's it's I feel all kinds of different ways about this, but I'm willing to at least give it a chance because McGhee has some measurables. He's seven foot tall, seven foot six wings man. They're starting center last year to why pal six foot eleven with the six foot wingspan. Dwight Powell plays as hard as any player I've ever seen, but his physical imitations eventually catch up with him. He's just not like he's maximized his career. So if you swap out some of those minutes and you're not relying on Dwight Powell for twenty five minutes a game and maybe instead like fifteen, and then you can change some things up with a guy like McGee who's also an excellent role man. Yeah, there's there's a path that I understand the argument. I just don't love it because that was there, that was the majority of their their miny mle and there were guys that were signed for that sort of thing where it's just like, wait, we did this with Javaiale McGhee when these guys were on the market, and I think that that decision was done before christian Wood was available, and because the starting thing was promised, where it's just like, Okay, well this is the bed we've made and we're just going to try to make it work because the gamble with christian Wood is worth taking. So I don't know, I bet. I mean, one thing about McGee is it when he's healthy, he plays a lot like games. He doesn't necessarily play a ton of minutes, but he's around a lot. And the Dallas Mavericks do need more guys that can play more than you know, they need guys that can play seventy plus games. Yeah, I mean he does at least bring and you mentioned the rollman stuff for a team that was twenty ninth in the share of their shots that came at the rim, like that helps you in the half court having someone like him there the again just curious. But like you said, maybe if they don't make the Christian Wood trade, perhaps we're killing their off season a little bit more. But it would have made more sense to have just your val McGee. But I remember when Cavan Looney signed his contract and I was just like the market on something, like I didn't understand how Mitchell Robinson got what he got, and I was like, how did ja val McGee? He guaranteed the starting role, So it was a questionable decision. But it does lead me to my next question on them, which is is there a big that gets squeezed out of this rotation now? Or is it Jason Kidd is so hell bent on playing two bigs at once at some points and he can't. I mean, he has Maxi Kleeb but that helps, and then Christian Wood being able to stretch the floor helps, But is there like when you look at Burton's also being there Dwight Powell as well, which big feels like they're in the most danger of being squeezed out of this front court rotation. I'm not sure because I actually think Maxi Cleber and Dwight Pale played too many minutes. Cleban's really important, but he's also thirty years old and he's played five long years in the NBA. He was a you know, an unsigned, undrafted guy who made his way to the league, and his body's not really built for an eighty two game season. He should probably be playing twenty minutes max, except if it's you know, playoffs and key games and things like that. He's really made it to the playoffs the last two years and not great physical shape. So if they can limit the strain on him, that matters a lot. I mentioned the Powell minutes already. Powell drives MAVs fans absolutely crazy. They hate him. He does a lot of stuff that doesn't show up in the box score. He's a great screen centered things of that nature. But when he's when he's useless, he's beyond useless. He just does a bunch of cardio while he's on the floor. So I think, you know, a couple of new guys to shore that up is a value. Because Dallas started last year with six centers on the roster, and four of them moved out of the roster as the season went long. I mean, they tried out Willie Cowi Stein, they tried out Moses Brown. So this is really just kind of throwing things at the wall to see what six I compared to those guys. These two are definitely an upgrade. But as I keep you know, I had what the MAVs radio guys named Chuck Cooperstein told me, He's like, well, lots of teams are going to two, you know, two big guys. And it's like, well, lots of the two big guy teams if we're thinking about them. So Cleveland and Minneapolis just right off the top of my head, those two two tandems in those cities are both of the All four of those guys were unbelievable basketball players, right, this is not It's like this is we are not the same, you know type like meme Like that's where my head is. Yeah, Like playing to Val McGhee with Maxi Clebo is different from playing yo Heavan Mobili with Jared Allen And you're right up, I really like Maxi Klebo, but it feels like he's just just not the same player, and I guess you said, it's been five very long years. And he used to have a lot of bursts, like he was like the white guy who was somehow up at the rim blocking shots. He's basing the floor, switching all over the what he was? What he was that the bubble? What he was just the primary defender on Kauai. That's right. Yeah, And he's just he's kind of spent and that's not He was really important to the Mavericks, and I wanted to be really important to the Mavericks to wear in you know, March, April, hopefully May June that he's able to play minutes. And so it's just if they can save him and they not and still win basketball games. That's important. Dallas finished eighth per cleaning the glass and points a loud per possession. Last year. They were really good at limiting threes, getting back off live rebounds some of If you go back and look at some of their splits, it's weird, like they dropped to fifteenth outside garbage time after the Prezingis trade, but their offense skyrocketed to fifth. I can't remember if there was like any absences towards the end of the year, it would have impacted that. But all in all, are they built to prop up that kind of defense again? And what is it about the way that Jason kidd Because he received a lot of credit for what they did, But what was it about Jason Kids specifically that helped them stylistically be so successful on that end? Well, the three points stuff, as far as I understand, it is just like luck, the percentage definite luck. But like they were good at like getting guys off the three point line. I felt like like limiting the effort. Okay, yeah, yeah, they had a really like so in Milwaukee the second year and during Kids stint, their defense just got picked apart though in the first year they had an extremely aggressive pick and roll coverage. I think he's found stylistically a pick and roll and recover defense that he likes within the guys that they have now if I do that primarily through length, and I think that's why if you look at the Mavericks lineup. You know, one thing I will say about this is now that that Brunson's gone, there's not a single person under six four in the in the rotation, and that that helps with this sort of you know, it's aggressive, but not overly aggressive coverage, and it also relies on teammates working together and knowing when and where to switch. That's where the incorporation of Tim Hardaway and Christian Wood becomes really difficult, because the guys that they had doing this last year, particularly after Porzingis was traded, it was a kinetic chain of guys just just an Amiba. And it was even with Luca, Like they let Luca sort of freelance, and like, Luca's not a great defensive player by any stretch of imagination, but he's six foot eight, he has a pretty good wingspan, he's big, and so you can just be in space. And so it's like, if you have four pretty good defenders or four really willing defenders and Luca Donich, I think you can get away with a lot in a regular season game. I want to make this clear that having Luca survey the defense, bring the ball up court, serve the defense than just annihilate people is a very good offensive model. It has value. It's just it's incredible. Do you want to see some more variability from their offense, especially during the non donteous Mint's Like, when's the last time they weren't you know bottom two and transition frequency and last an offensive possession time. See. I don't understand the transition stuff because if you watch Luca an international play, he loves pass ahead situations. I just wonder it's like, does he worry that Dorian Finney Smith is gonna, you know, pull who's got the I always use the office meme where the guy dribble and looking at the Stanley office fumbling like like like, is that what he's worried during Finney Smith and Reggie Bullock are gonna do? I just don't know, because it was like that under Carle. We assumed it was Carlisle, and now it's been like that under Kid and Kid was obviously one of the best fast break point guards of all time. It's like, what is happening? Matt Dallas has to run more. I think some of that's Luca's fitness because the games are eight minutes longer and he has to play forty minutes a game. But they need to run. He's too dangerous of a passer to give up this sort of stuff. But then as far as your second question, they need a lot more variability. But I don't know how you do it with the offense that they have other than they need to someone it needs to get through to him and say, look, we under because the problem lucas he's really smart. He understands the math. A Luca don Chris pick and roll is the best offense right period point per possession. It's what you can do. But they don't use him in rolls. Ever. Luca as a role man would be incredible, Luca doing all like off ball. Like sometimes they're like, oh, well we have Luca going off ball. No, you have Luca going to post up and then you feed him the post up Like what if we were in some actual, honest to goodness plays And they just don't have a lot of plays. They don't, at least they didn't last year. Now now Igorker Coscoff has moved on and they have some new things that I'm sure they're going to try. But at the end of the day, Luca ball is Luca ball, and it's where the criticisms and comparisons to James harden I both get them and it drives me crazy. But if they want to advance in the playoffs, they do need some some variability, and I would even just say let's just say they can't have it during the dontrege minutes, Like maybe that's a way to sort of cover up for just not having an actual third ball here. Let's just play at this frenetic pace. But then I did through their personnel, and I'm like, all right, Like Josh Green's pretty quick, but like, like, are they built to be a team that really gets out in transition, like with any type of above league average frequency. I don't know that that's where it's dicey. I would like to at least see them try, is what I'll say. Because fast break basketball is more fun. Oh, no, one pc sure that's why sometimes the Kings are watchable, Like they'll run the ball out after the inbounds, even after made shots. So I feel like I don't want to make a thing. We're shitting on the Mavericks and we've been pretty critical of them. Are there any like under talked about strength about this team that are being missed as we head into the regular season. No, And like this is where I have a bit of a MAVs fans love to hate me because they think I'm too negative, whereas I just think I'm realistic. The bottom line is as I watched a Dirk Navitsky led team from two thousand, I watched them the whole time, but when they moved on from Steve Nash, Dirk was the only really you know, they had some pretty good teams. Obviously they made it to the finals eventually, but then in the championship years they wasted a lot of very good Dirk basketball because of they expected too much out of him. And the problem with the Mavericks right now is due to the circumstances of their previous front office regime, they just don't have a lot of talent. Grant Land put out an article today It's like I can't remember who wrote it, but it was like, you know, number that kind of define the season, and like if you go look at top one hundred lists, Luca don chich is in the top five for everybody's list. There might be one other Maverick in the top one hundred for all the other lists combined, Like there was Spencer Dinwoody was sixty nine one on the ESPN list. They didn't have Dorian Finney Smith, which I think is a mistake, but it's just it goes to show like how the talent levels are viewed and you know, as we're talking right now, Victor Wimeniana and Scoot Henderson are playing, and like my sum of all fears is that the Rockets and Spurs are garbage again. And then those two teams get Scoot Henderson and Victor woman Yanna to go along with Zion Williamson and John Morant in the Southwest Division, and then Luca just all of a sudden one day it's like, you know what, I'm tired of this shit bye. And it'd be fair to look at that, like if we're gonna do that to SGA and okay, see or Zion before he signed his contract a New Orleans, it's fair to view it through that lens with Luca and the Mavericks. Which is why I know you've already said that this is going to be sort of a take medicine year for the Mavericks to where let that draft draft oop of gaition convey, you'll be sub be a subcontender, but then you can maybe be more aggressive over the off season since you won't be you won't be encumbered by that. But if they're like hovering outside the top four on the fringes of the top six in the West, Like, is this a team that could be a little bit more aggressive leading into the trade deadline or you I think that's likely what's going to be potential. And that sort of worries me because with the Victor Weimanniana Sweepstakes, I think there's gonna be a lot more sellers. And it just at the moment, I'm not very good at this level of prognostication. Dalton Trigg, who I know has been on this podcast before, is much better at like seeing the future for what guys might be available for for the Mavericks, and I just I don't know, and and it worries me a little bit because it's just not it's you hate to be the sort of bleak about it when you have a generational player, but it's just they don't have a lot of optionality that I see at the moment. I mean, the Mavericks have never taken on draft picks the entire time I've been a MAVs fans has never been a thing. And there's just not the paths to improvement circle around Luca don Chrich going from being like trans trans transcendent to like multidimensional level good, Like there's just that's yeah, yeah, it's you know, Thanos popping through the universe's type stuff. It's it's terrifying, like that's kind of their best path. Oddly enough, that's also not it's a pretty good one because Lukea is so young, but it's still it's just it's it waxes and waynes to where it's like for me this year, if the Mavericks don't make the goal, for me as a fan asn't watch team, I want to make the second round again. Like Western Conference finals is hard, but making the second round again would be really cool because it's hard to advance in the playoffs, and I think the way you know, basketball has discussed these days, we sort of overrate elements of those sorts of things, like getting the playoffs is kind of easy. Let's just be honest when you know twenty teams make it, but advancing as hard, right for sure? And I do think it's weird they just made the Western Conference finals and then we come in with this tenor surrounding them of it would be cool if they want to playoff round, but I think it's fair just based off the way their team looks. I will say I think if they can stick it out this year, they'll be more optionality available to them over like the forthcoming off seasons because the trade market, as we just saw, there's always a next star, even the star that you don't necessarily see coming, and it's just a matter of are they willing to give the draft equity up to get one once they actually have it to trade. And I think what would also help is some of these deals that don't look too rosy now come summer, Tim Hardaway Junior is one fewer year, Davis Tons is one fewer year, you figure out what you're doing with Spence virgin Woodi's partial guarantee, and so I would expect them to be aggressive. But I think for a lot of Mass fans that have been chasing or waiting for the mega move, that still feels like we're a year away at least from something along those lines. Yeah, and you know, because I have the rundown, and like I said, I'm a podcast hosts myself. One thing that I think is is compare will here is if you look at the first run Lebron years, the Cavs made so many terrible moves that they had to offload assets in order to try to improve, and if you're sending picks out, you better be really certain that the picks and the assets are going to improve your team, because otherwise it's gonna it's There's not a lot of recourse for that sort of thing, because the paths to improvement in the NBA are obviously free agency, trades, draft. The Mavericks are terrible at free agency. They try to do drafts, and they're terrible at at I'm sorry they're they try to do trades and they're terrible at drafts. So how do they improve? I don't know the teen mad rotation for this team, it does feel like there are eight locks. You can correct me if I'm wrong there, but just between Luca Dinwoody Finney Smith, Bullock McGee, Tim Hardaway, Christian Wood and Maxi Kleiba, would you classify all those guys as locks for the ten man rotation? Who would how would you flesh out the final two? Obviously it can change, but as of right now, probably going to be Josh Josh Green, and then I think it'll be Frank at first, and then I think they'll start trying some things. But Dwight Powell has a chance to maybe fall out of one of those top ten spots, but I guess maybe, but even he will still get some minutes, Like I wouldn't be surprised if they play eleven to twelve guys like ten plus minutes every game. And Dwight Powell is like an institution to that organization somehow he came over. This is my favorite. He was a throw into the Region Rondo trade way back in the day and has somehow been a like valuable part of the team since twenty fifteen. Maybe they're they're subconsciously or implicitly trying to still spin that trade, justify it all these years later. Yeah, so this is to some extent matchup dependent, and I think it's certainly fascinating with this team where I could see them fuxing and fiddling a lot. But what would be your go to crunch time unit? Oh, great question. I want to see a Wood at the five with Bullock, Luca, Dorian Finney, Smith, Spencer, Dinwitty. Is that five players? Getty Bullock, did Dorrian Finney, Smith, Luca and would Yeah that's five? Yeah? Okay? And then maybe switching out Hardaway every now and again. I mean the Hardaway Bullock thing is sort of like one of the hidden things I'm gonna be keeping an eye on because Block did not take off until Hardaway got hurt, and that's because of volume and time and there's only so many threes you can shoot in a game, and each one of those guys I think needs like five plus attempts a game, and I just that they need to make sure that happens, because Bullock was huge down the stretch for them. But if you go look at his box score, there's this, you know, like the stretch of them from you know, kind of November up until late January. He has games where he's taking like two and three and it's a volume just skyrocketed. He was at like six and seven times a game all of a sudden, so and so I was actually wondering, and the way you painted that, you would most likely see them. I don't want to tether anyone into positions, but it'll be the Dorian Phinney Smith at the four looks rather than really ever closing with two bigs and maybe even Doring at five. Sometimes I sign me the fuck up for that. I love those types of lineups, which brings me to my net. You really are podcasting veteran. That brings me my next question. Are there any weirdo, wonky, quirky, bonkers lineups you want Jason Kidd to try this year? Well, because I'm a sicko, like I don't care for Josh Green. It is not him as a person, just him as a player. But if we're gonna use Josh Green, I need to see these Josh Green point guard mits. I just need to see them with decent dudes where he's running the offense and causing some chaos. Because he's another big ball handler. I want to see, like any lineup with him as primary ball handler. I just sort of need to see it because if it works, all for the better. If it doesn't work, then I get to crap on this front office. It's a really it's like a win win. It's funny that you went that route because mine was the same. But with like the Frank niel Kino. Look, if they're gonna if they're gonna call Frankie o keena their third ball hand, like, let's do this right and put Frankie o Key on the floor with a bunch of shooters. It's just you know, we'll make it. The non Luca minutes because you're not taking the battle of Luca's hands. And give me Joring, Frenny Smith, Reggie Bullock, I guess Christian Wooden, Kleba or throw hardaway in there for one of them, and you could run a little smaller. I imagine the defense would be pretty terrible. But you know, ran fifty Smith and Frank Niel Keena and if Cleba is healthy, So give those three together and then give me you know, I still might go would and then just I think even Reggie Bullock. So that would be the lineup I just want to see out of. And I've said this a lot with certain lineups this year, probably out of just more morbid curiosity than anything else, right, right, Yeah, that makes sense to me. As we record this, their current win total is set at forty eight point five. Are you smashing the over the under on that? I think it's perfectly set. It's just perfectly set. MAVs fans are lunatics about this when I do anything under than fifty two games, and it's just like folks Alas went thirty five and twelve from January one on. That is impossible to do, right, It just doesn't. And it's like Oh, well, it happens, we can do it again. Like, no, that's that's not how this works. The likelihood, even if they're playing very well, is that they win sixty percent of their games, not seventy five. So there was a stretch of games where they beat Boston and Brooklyn on an East Coast road trip on back to back game winners. And so you know this as well as I do. There's probably three to four games every year that you just completely at the endings are nonsense, total coin flips. I feel like last year in that stretch, the Mavericks had a bunch of stuff go their way. I think forty eight is great because it just it builds in a little bit of a reduction. Now that said, it's it's I have a hard time seeing this team if they get seventy five games at a Luca winning fewer than winning fewer than fifty. It's you know, he's just that good that that's sort of It's it's the conflict though, between those two things, because if LUCA plays eighty games and they win forty eight of them, that means something else has. These things didn't pan out right, So I don't know what I'm gonna end up hitting with them. I just the trust meter after Luca, and yeah, like I trust Dorian Finney Smith, I trust Luca, and then it's like, I don't know, I trust Frankielkina with my life obviously, but after that, it's just like the trust meter makes me wonder if this team could actually be a little worse than expected. My actual file up questions to that, though, is where do you see them standing relative to the West? Is it you know? Are there? What teams do you see has decided to be better than then? I guess might be the way where you'd right now say I'd be shocked if the MAVs are better than these teams to close the regular season. So let's just go through the list here. I should have the whole standings pulled up, but that's uh, that's neither here nor there. In the Western Conference, I think that the Warriors are better. I think the Clippers are better. I think that the Denver Nuggets are better. And that's kind of where the firm absolutely betters are are stopping for me. If you were to Memphis is one that I find particularly interesting because I can't figure them out. They won so many games without jaw and jaws jaws basketball Icarus like he just flies too close to the sun and if you're telling the way he gets hurt. I just he did a three sixty dunk the other day. I was like, Oh, that was so cool. Oh that was why you know that sort of thing. And if they're without Jaren Jackson Jr. Who's their second most important player for a huge stretch, they're gonna they're gonna be They're gonna be hard pressed, and I think Jackson with a foot injury is gonna be It's just it's a dicey gamble. I don't see them winning this mini games again. I also don't think they're better than Dallas. Part of this is because Dallas has simply destroyed them every time Luca and Memphis matches up like they it's I feel the same way about the Celtics. It's just in my head whose Luca breaks them. I don't think there is good a team as they realistically are. Obviously, you know, the Minnesota Timberwolves are going to be a real bear to play in the regular season. I think that's another team that's potentially better. I think that the Pelicans they have you know, Zion is just such a force in nature. They're kind of right there in that Mavericks tier. I definitely think they're better than the Lakers, you know, Kings, Blazers, thunder Rockets, the Spurs, like those teams are all better and like, so some of this is going to come down to, like the way the schedule balancing works out, where you know, if you get a there's some tough like the Mavericks play kind of a crazy schedule if you go look in March they play Memphis three times. So a lot's going to be decided in the in the last couple weeks of the season, which I think is is really fun, good good job by the by the scheduling people to do that. So you know, it's things are going to get really sorted out in an interesting way going down the stretch for Dallas, like they have some pretty good, pretty solid schedule in terms of balance both what on right now on paper looks like easy and difficult teams, but last year they've benefited, I think, from some scheduling quirks and that sort of stuff is always very interesting to me. Where it's they do these home and home series now, which I think are a lot of fun. So it's that the Mavericks play, for example, in late March, they play Charlotte on Friday and Charlotte on Sunday, and that is like, that's hard being the same teams. Weisner, it's and if you lose both those games, that sets you back at a point in the cycle when you're really, you know, hoping to get wins. Yeah, and both conferences are tough this year. But I would agree with all the teams you mentioned in front of them. I do think at least one of Minnesota, New Orleans and Phoenix is going to end up jumping over them. But I think what's really more uneasy is that if you just let's just say that, if you can name four teams in front of them, you're talking about, well, they have to be better than Minnesota and then New Orleans if they just want to avoid the play in and things get just sort of fickle when you get to the middle of the Western Conference, where even if you think they're only three teams, the fittingly better of them just still have the Suns in the mix with the Pelicans and the Timberwolves the way that those two teams look right now, and the Mavericks and plus the Grizzlies, who I'm just notoriously low on. It's just so brutal in just that middle class of the Western Conference. And I don't have a great feel for what the MAVs are going to be during the regular season, and there are just I don't I never have a great feel for how the standings are going to shake out, but I try to get better fields for individual teams before the season. The MAVs are one that are just miffing me. I tend to just be like, they have Luca, that's forty nine plus games. If he stays healthy, they're gonna win. But I honestly just look at the rest of the roster how they sort of succeeded last season, and I'm just wondering if they have more trouble replicating it for reasons that really aren't because jam and Brunson left. What the infrastructure looks like now that he's gone. Yeah, That's that's kind of how I feel too, And that's lost on people. When you're you're making, you know, arguments and trying to explain logic to fans, It's like, wow, there, it's gonna be better. Just trust me, they're gonna way, I got one guy talked to every day. I love the guy who tells the maverage going in fifty seven games, like do you know how hard that is? That's hard? Then the noe like one team in the West last year, one that many games? What are we doing? I go back and forth with whether I would love to have that blind optimism or it has to hurt when you wind up being wrong. So I think I'd prefer not being that high on a team that doesn't deserve it at all, rather than just having the rampant optimism for almost no reason. Right, is there any one or anything about this team I did not ask you about that you think needs to be discussed? Now, You're much more thorough than I am about asking questions guests. When I come on, I'm recording with someone else a little later today and like, I don't have anything because I just like the day's gotten away from me. So this has been great. Well, I appreciate you coming on. I have to prepare so that you think that I actually watch games, because I just I don't watch games. I hate everybody's team, so I just have to fake it to these episodes. But Kerrik, in case anyone did not listen to the intro. You're able to tell our listeners where they can find you and all the great work that you do. Sure, I'm editor at Maths Moneyball dot com. I also run the Moneyball podcast feed, where I basically run every podcast but name things differently, uh, but where we do like Spotify live shows, and then I do one with my my co editor, and then I do like a daily rundown on what's going on in MAVs land. So if you ever want to hear my voice, that's that's where you can find me, and then find our written work and MAV's Moneyball where hired from hired. You know, we have like a bunch of fan volunteer type stuff. We have like twenty people that love to contribute, And I really like the work we're putting out because I have a whole bunch of people that are really excited about the team and then a whole bunch of people that think the MAVs are going to be really rough, so it makes for fun content. Yeah, MAVs Moneyball does great MAVs coverage. I am reading that consistently. And you do a great job with the You and light Years are still like you guys are the reasons I'll go back to Spotify Live on occasion. It's not something else. Yeah, those dudes have a whole, well have like a whole crazy person ecosystem. I have, like me and about three hundred people that I chat with. They get like like four thousand black and dude fans. We were getting paid to go on Spotify Live. We had like the most we ever had was like forty or fifty listeners. So you guys are well out in front of hardwnox and Spotify Live and the conversation is always enjoyable. Thank you so much, Kirk. I'm sure you know I will be pestering you again in the future, of course, ye