WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:11.599 Host radio. Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio 2 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:17.879 is the UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. 3 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:25.559 Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Hello and welcome once again to Open 4 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:31.239 Minds Radio. Just enjoying a cup of coffee while a haboobi goes overhead. 5 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:34.960 Well, actually it's not that bad. It's a big dust storm out here 6 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:39.119 in the desert of Phoenix where it's hot and when it gets windy. That 7 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:43.560 is no releaef. That's like a blow dryer blowing on your face. And 8 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:47.359 then sometimes, like right now, that blow dryer that's blowing the heat in 9 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:51.079 your face is carrying a lot of dust. And one of the things that 10 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:54.920 they said is in this dust is a lot of bug parts. There's lots 11 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:59.079 of bugs in the forest, so we're breathing in these parts of scorpions and 12 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.760 beetles and grasshoppers. I think there's a little bug parts in most everything in 13 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.519 life. Yeah, I think you're I always do those reports during Valentine's Day 14 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:11.280 about how many bug parts there are in chocolate. Oh really, that's scary. 15 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:15.719 Lots of bugs all over the place, but not on the radio. 16 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:21.120 This is pure digital where we're able to filter out any bug parts, so 17 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:26.040 you just get information. And that's what we've got for you today. We 18 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:32.519 have a wonderful guest today and that is Ted Peters. And this is a 19 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:38.719 subject that I am really into, which is religion and UFO disclosure, religion 20 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:42.760 and extraterrestrials. And you know, you guys know that we're into this because 21 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.920 we've had some guests on lately talking about it. In particular, it was 22 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:49.959 not quite a year ago, but we had Paul Davids on, which is 23 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:55.799 a big score for the show because he works at ASU and he is a 24 00:01:56.120 --> 00:02:04.239 world renowned astrophysicists, and he had been speaking a lot about religion and how 25 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:09.080 religions, for the most part don't struggle too much with the extraterrestrial idea, 26 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:15.000 except for the Roman Catholics. Their philosophies have a harder time with that. 27 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:19.639 And so we've talked about those philosophies and things with different guests that we've had 28 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:27.000 on. But what Ted Peters done is actually put to task what especially he 29 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:32.159 talks about SETI and SETI scientists, saying that the world would really have world's 30 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:39.039 religions would have a real problem if they knew extraterrestrial visitation was really happening, 31 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.719 and people would freak out and run them the streets and it'd be mayhem. 32 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.199 Well, what Ted Peters has done is actually done a scientific study. He 33 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:57.520 is he teaches seminary at the Theological Union in Berkeley, he's a professor, 34 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.879 and he got together with the psychologist and put together a survey to figure out 35 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:07.120 how people really would react. And really what he found is quite interesting. 36 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:14.800 Some of you will probably agree with it because you'll see that it makes a 37 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:19.319 lot of sense. So this is a great study that he did. Really 38 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.479 it needs to have more attention. And luckily he is going to be speaking 39 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:27.800 at the move On Symposium coming up here the week after next July twenty ninth 40 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:31.400 to the thirty first, So if you want to hear more about him after 41 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:37.879 you hear him tonight, check out the symposium. But yeah, it's I 42 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:40.240 think his work is great so and he's a lot of fun, So we'll 43 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:44.919 be talking to him in a minute. Well, so, he also has 44 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:50.120 some of it in a book called UFO's Gods and Chariots Flying Saucers in Politics, 45 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:57.479 Science, and religion, so good stuff. I really like talking to 46 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:00.199 him, So I think you're going to find this great. As I mentioned 47 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:06.479 at MoveOn, we will be there, Jason and Maureena and I will be 48 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:14.400 signing magazines. Uh, if you bring in your iPhone, because Maureene is 49 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:21.000 now kind of a and Jason are YouTube superstars, they'll sign your iPhone or 50 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:25.839 your iPad, or just bring in your laptop or if you want to haul 51 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:30.319 in your desktop computer and they can sign it because they're get signed by UFO 52 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:32.720 YouTube superstars. And if you want to know what I'm talking about, go 53 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:39.319 to the Open Minds TV YouTube page and see all of the cool stuff. 54 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.639 And that our latest magazine that we're going to have there is out and about 55 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.439 Hollywood. So we're going to be in Irvine, California. That's where the 56 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:50.600 move On Symposium is not too far from Hollywood. So those of you Hollywood 57 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:55.839 stars that are listening and you know you've read Jason's article and you want Sammy 58 00:04:55.879 --> 00:05:00.839 Hagar or Dan Ackrolloyd, Steven Spielberg, some of the guys were if you 59 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:02.839 want to come see us and talk to us about your article, feel free 60 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.079 to come because I know they're all listening to the show right now, so 61 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:11.600 they've been dying to meet us, I know it. So this is your 62 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:15.399 opportunity, Stevie. We'll talk about some of your latest movies and definitely have 63 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:19.319 some suggestions on how to improve them. Falling Skies, I'm sorry, is 64 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:25.360 awful, and the whole alien invasion stuff is getting a little old, Buddy 65 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:30.160 Super eight Rock though. Anyway, let us get on to some of the 66 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:33.800 other exciting things that you can find at open Minds dot tv, and that 67 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:40.079 is the daily UFO headlines, headlines from around the world, and we are 68 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:46.560 always very fortunate to have Jason McClellan here to talk news with us. Jason, 69 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:48.480 talk some news to us. Hi, I am ready to talk news. 70 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:53.399 Hello all one hundred one Greetings everyone out in radio land and in video 71 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:57.639 land. This is your open Wise news brief for Monday, July eighteenth, 72 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:03.600 twenty eleven. US Exploration Technologies, better known as SpaceX, broke ground last 73 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:08.839 week on a new launch pad. The company's CEO, Elon Musk, as 74 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:12.600 well as state and local officials, were on hand for the groundbreaking ceremony that 75 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:16.199 took place at Vandenberg Air Force Base, northwest of Los Angeles. California. 76 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:20.680 SpaceX is renovating an old launch pad from the nineteen sixties at the base to 77 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:26.560 be able to accommodate their mammoth Falcon Heavy rocket. Falcon Heavy is still being 78 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:30.439 constructed by the company and will reportedly be the world's most powerful rocket, capable 79 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:35.360 of sending cargo and possibly even people into space. According to the Huffington Post, 80 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:40.360 the renovations of the launch pad are expected to cost between twenty and thirty 81 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:44.879 million dollars and will take eighteen months to complete. The company's goal is to 82 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.279 launch Falcon Heavy from the new launch pad in twenty thirteen. With NASA's Space 83 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:53.639 Shuttle program coming to a close, companies like SpaceX will likely fill the void, 84 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:59.879 and as Huffington Huffington Post points out, SpaceX already has a contract with 85 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:04.040 NASA to supply the International Space Station with cargo using its smaller Falcon nine rocket, 86 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:09.199 and the company hopes to secure additional contracts with NASA and other customers, 87 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:13.959 which could include taking satellites into space as well as humans on future man's exploration 88 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:16.519 missions. We talk a lot about SpaceX. They're one of the more exciting 89 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:21.040 companies right now with their propulsion systems, anyway, well, and this whole 90 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:26.680 I mean, it's just very fascinating to watch this revolution, this change in 91 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:33.879 our whole space bearing initiatives changing to their privatization. It's kind of scary because 92 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:39.560 the private sector moves a little slower because they have to see realize some profit 93 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:46.120 in their ventures. And of course safety is always kind of scary with those 94 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:49.879 type of things, since NASA's been doing this for so long. But I 95 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:53.680 think people would agree, you know, we need to cut and I would 96 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:59.319 rather see I'm a space fanatic, but I'd rather see, you know, 97 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.680 maybe a few less rocket launches than to see Medicare or Medicaid cut, I 98 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:09.439 mean, or Social Security people who really need that money. It's a lot 99 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:11.639 of big time bucks spent on this stuff. Yeah, I mean, we 100 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.319 talk about this a lot, but I mean even this, and I pointed 101 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:20.160 this out to you during last week, that this just renovating a launch pad. 102 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.600 The launch pad's already there. They're not starting to scratch. This is 103 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:26.720 already a base, already a launch pad. They're renovating it to be able 104 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:31.399 to handle this bigger rocket. But just that renovational loans costing thirty million dollars. 105 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.519 Yeah, and you know, the problem. And it comes back to 106 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:41.840 defense, which of course UFO people are always talking about, because defense costs 107 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:46.320 so much. Those contractors, those companies charge so much for everything that they 108 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:52.600 do that those same technologies which they want to use in space programs, these 109 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:58.360 costs are inflated because they're using them to build missiles, and so everything is 110 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:03.480 very expensive in that whole endy. So of course I'd much rather see a 111 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:09.120 few less missiles being built and rockets than and jet fighters or other things that 112 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:13.039 are absolutely and that's why we need to do the Grielberg and the like to 113 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.919 stop making these television shows and movies about invading aliens. Quit scaring the hell 114 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.919 out of everybody. That's right. We want to go meet the aliens and 115 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:24.200 yeah, shake their hands, need to shoot them. Yeah, yeah, 116 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:26.360 But I will disagree with you. I think that, you know, with 117 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:31.600 the private sector, I think things will will move more quickly maybe, you 118 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.759 know. I think with NASA, we look at a lot of the same 119 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:41.000 technology being used that's been around since the sixties, I hope so. But 120 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:45.320 then look at Spaceship one, Spaceship two, how long I mean two years 121 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.759 ago they did their test flight, and there's still a year or two out 122 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.000 to doing, you know, their regular fights, although they've already broken ground 123 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:56.639 and they're building their spaceport in New Mexico. That's exciting, very exciting. 124 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:00.759 But I hope you're right. Yeah, the private space industry is definitely exciting, 125 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.000 and you know, it's certainly all new to everybody, so it's exciting 126 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.639 to watch how it develops well. Earlier this month, fireball UFOs were filmed 127 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:13.080 in both Georgia and Mexico. Now another fireball UFO video has surfaced. The 128 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:18.000 video shows a Russian rocket transforming during different stages of the initial launch. Then 129 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:22.679 strange, flickering balls of light appear near the object, causing some to speculate 130 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.200 that UFOs were disarming the rocket. The Epic Times describes this video, stating 131 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.320 several tiny white lights are flashing around the object and its tail, both glowing 132 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:35.279 with a whitish light, probably due to the effect of filming a computer screen, 133 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:41.039 as the core becomes semi translucent with a striped appearance. However, the 134 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:45.519 rocket captured here is most likely that Soyer's two, the rocket carrying six satellites 135 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:48.960 from Kazakhstan, launched early in the morning the same day the videos were uploaded. 136 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:54.320 The Soyer's two rocket is a three stage carrier type rocket designed for delivering 137 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.840 payloads into lower orbit, and the strange transformation seen in the video is most 138 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:01.240 likely caused by the different stage as a burn, but we don't know. 139 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.000 Debunking another one of my favorite videos. Oh I'm not debunking at all. 140 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.879 In fact, I get credit to the debunking on this one to Maureen. 141 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:13.840 But oh really, but that video is one of those video, Yeah, 142 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.600 most interesting videos we've seen in a long time, and it reminded me a 143 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.360 lot of something out of the movie The Abyss, who's sort of organic like 144 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:24.320 weird. Yeah, but you're right. I mean also, you know when 145 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.840 it's a small object and then it explodes and gets big. But it does 146 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.120 look like on TV when the stage is you know, right on stage moving 147 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.960 to the next where it's flowing. It's a very cool video though, I 148 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:41.639 highly recommend watching it, and we have that on our website open Minds dot 149 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:48.320 tv. Excellent. A thirty six year old bus driver was watching television last 150 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.159 Monday night when she noticed a light hovering above the trees behind her home. 151 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:54.799 She was startled by the light because she lives in a very rural part of 152 00:11:54.879 --> 00:12:01.000 town, and the area behind her house is undeveloped from miles. She described 153 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:05.000 the hovering object as having red, blue, and white twinkling lights. She 154 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:07.240 grabbed her camera and took a few photos of the object. She watched the 155 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:13.360 object for approximately thirty minutes, and she noted how eerily silent it was when 156 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.480 the object was hovering. Living near a swamp, the night is normally filled 157 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.919 with sounds of frogs, crickets, and other swamp creatures, but it was 158 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.679 quiet. The next morning, she went to explore the area beneath where the 159 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.799 object had been hovering, and she discovered an eight foot by ten foot area 160 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:33.159 of tall grass that had been flattened. Interesting story. Yeah, that is 161 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:39.000 a weird I don't remember reading that one. I think we read it together, 162 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:43.519 Alejandro. This was a UFO and killing Lee. Oh okay okay, 163 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:48.159 so ann And another interesting fact about the story is this woman. Though she 164 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.440 her current occupation as a bus driver, she was formerly an Air Force policewoman, 165 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:58.799 So I would assume that an Air Force policewoman is trained in observation. 166 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.279 Mm hmm. Wow. That is so. Her story is interesting and it 167 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.399 has a lot of other things other than just a sighting of a light in 168 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.360 the sky. You know, she's got the silence of everything, not just 169 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.919 the silence of the craft, no noise coming from the craft, but everything 170 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.080 was silent. And then this flattening of the tall grass in the area. 171 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:22.240 Was this one of those stories? Though they didn't show the picture. I 172 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.720 think it was. No showed the picture. Oh it did, yep, 173 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.320 because I know we've ran a couple of cross a couple of those right where 174 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.559 it says even in the title of UFO, and then they don't include Yeah, 175 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.240 lots of interesting sighting stories lightly but yeah, no photo with the story, 176 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.759 yeah, which is unfortunate. This one does have a photo and it 177 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.519 shows this this weird light kind of above the trees killing I remember that, 178 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:46.919 yeap. Just a quick cross circle story here. A huge two hundred foot 179 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.639 crop circle appeared in Wiltshare, England, last week, just across the street 180 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:54.759 from Stonehenge. The circle is extremely large and contains what some have interpreted as 181 00:13:54.840 --> 00:14:00.799 three half moons. And I always kind of laugh at some people those interpretations 182 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:03.480 of crop circles, because you know, they could be anything. It's just 183 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.639 like consolations to look in the sky or clouds go. There was an elephant. 184 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.840 Yeah, interesting, did you see that one? It's it's literally across 185 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:15.559 the street from Stone Yeah, And I think what's cool about the Stonehenge ones. 186 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:20.159 This is a big one. It's another elaborate, very pretty one. 187 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.200 And you know Stonehench has a lot of tourists, right, so they have 188 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:30.519 tourists all day long. And I remember even last year one happened across the 189 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:33.759 street from Stonehenge and they actually interviewed the security guard and he said, you 190 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.759 know, I'm here all day and I came in, I left last night, 191 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.519 there was nothing across the street, came in in the morning and it's 192 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:43.639 there. So he's like, I don't you know these people have to make 193 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:46.200 these things overnight and that's so huge. I don't I don't know how they 194 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:50.600 could do it. So this one didn't have an interview with the security guard, 195 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.200 but the same thing applies. It's it's pretty incredible, right. I 196 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.960 feel bad for the farmers in that area though. Yeah, the crops always 197 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.039 get trashed. Yeah they don't. I mean if I were a farmer there, 198 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:05.000 I would definitely be setting up a ticket booth and charging admission. Well, 199 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:11.279 they do it, Yeah, to recuperate. But and people argue, 200 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.480 oh, maybe it's a farmer doing it to make money. But the farmers 201 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:18.480 point out they don't make money. They recuperate a little bit of their losses 202 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:20.840 from that, they don't make money off of that. And on top of 203 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.799 it, when people are trapesing all over the crops, they even destroy more. 204 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.399 Yeah, yep, feel bad for those farmers yep. And they can't 205 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:33.759 catch the suckers, right well, security guards need to wake up. Yeah 206 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:39.399 well yeah, well, hopefully we here's a story we can hopefully now put 207 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.600 to bed and never mentioned again. But the UFO like silver helium balloon that 208 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.799 grabbed the nation's at tension back in two thousand and nine has been sold. 209 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:50.320 I'm talking, of course, about the infamous balloon created by Richard Heene in 210 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.120 the Balloon Boy hoax, where a Colorado couple said that their son had floated 211 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:58.039 away in the balloon. He's put the balloon up for auction earlier this month 212 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:03.720 in an anonymous man who paid more than twenty five hundred dollars is the new 213 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.200 owner of this worthless balloon. That's twenty five hundred dollars. We'll fortunately go 214 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.759 to a more worthwhile cause than going to the Heenes, the money is reportedly 215 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.279 being given to Japanese earthquake and tsunami relief funds. Yeah, his wife is 216 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:21.240 Japanese, correct, So I don't think this is the last we're going to 217 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.240 hear a heen though. I mean, he did this as a marketing stunt. 218 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:27.039 He's kind of a marketing he's a ham and he tries to get into 219 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:32.440 the spotlight and he wanted out with this. He wanted his own reality show. 220 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:34.200 Yeah. Well when he put this balloon up for sale first, he 221 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:37.960 put it up for like two million dollars and he got news then. So 222 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.159 yeah, we're gonna hear about this joke Stris some more. And I think 223 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:45.919 probably the reason that they're giving the money to charity is because he didn't get 224 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:48.200 as much as he thought he would. He thought he had some sort of 225 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.639 gold mine here. And it's funny because this twenty five hundred dollars doesn't even 226 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:57.240 come close to covering his legal that the fees that he had to pay for 227 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:03.320 tricking everybody for the the fraud that was something like thirty six thousand dollars they 228 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:04.759 had to pay. Well, he's lucky he didn't go to prison. I 229 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:08.519 mean, that's such an awful thing to do. These guys are busy, 230 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.599 you know, chasing this balloon when they could have been out saving other people's 231 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.519 lives. Hopefully nobody else got hurt. A lot of yeah, a lot 232 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:22.519 of resources were used with that. And you remember every every single news station 233 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.359 was live feeding that, showing the balloon in the sky saying, oh, 234 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:30.880 there's a boy in a balloon. That went on. Lots of local authorities 235 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:36.079 were trying to chase the balloon down and yep, so thirty six thousand dollars 236 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:41.279 you got off easy. Character. Oh yeah, and Alejandro, here's something 237 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.279 that made me think of you. A local news website in Pennsylvania posted an 238 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.039 article last week and in the article, they highlighted ten things you should do 239 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.400 if you see a UFO, something they quoted directly from Moufon. And I'm 240 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.559 sure, Alejandro, you can probably recite these from heart, being that you 241 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:02.440 were you are a field investigator, and you were the public education director for 242 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.440 Moufon. Yeah, what is it? Run number one to crawl under the 243 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:11.039 bed. Three, try not to cry too loud. That was you skipped 244 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.599 one. Oh okay, actually you're not far off but let's start with number 245 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.000 one. Number one, Alejandro, the most important thing you need to do 246 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:22.920 run off the bat is remain calm, but protect yourself from any hazards, 247 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:29.799 real or perceived. I think that's a little pessimistic there. Yeah, when 248 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:33.079 I say UFO, I get excited. I don't think about protecting myself. 249 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.319 I don't feel threatened by UFOs. Well, the perceived part is a dangerous 250 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.640 part, because of course people can mistake a plane for upon they're running inside. 251 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:47.440 But I guess also you should look up for the hazards if there's a 252 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:51.599 fireball UFO coming and it's actually a plane that's crashing or a meteor coming and 253 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:56.240 it's going to hit you. Yeah, you're wow UFO. Yeah all right, 254 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:59.440 so remain calm. And then number two is be objective. Not every 255 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.799 UFO's extraterrestrial. That's a very good point, like that one. Number three, 256 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.599 Use a camcorder or camera to record the event. That's also a great 257 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:15.440 one. However, they don't mention anything about a tripod which is on mend 258 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.440 that one tripod or if you have a tape recorder, record your descriptions of 259 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:23.079 the event as it happens. And that's really good too, because in the 260 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:27.319 heat of the moment, you know, the adrenaline running and everything. Even 261 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:32.680 hours later, you forget details that could be important, which is probably the 262 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.000 next one. If other witnesses are present, ask them to also write or 263 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:41.319 record their observations. Yeah, that thing is write down, and that every 264 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.359 time you get a call or an email, write down your experience immediately as 265 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:49.599 much detail as you can, because your memory starts to fade, and once 266 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:53.519 your memory fades, your brain has a funny habit of putting things in their 267 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:57.319 necks and filling in the gaps. Yep. And with other witnesses, it's 268 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.960 it's good to have the corroborating of it, to see names, names and 269 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.640 phone numbers too. Yeah. Oh, let's see number six. If the 270 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.119 UFO left some trace, if it's present behind, do not disturb the area 271 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:15.319 around it? And why is that all hudro Just like in any criminal case. 272 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:19.440 So you don't disturb any evidence where things are lying. And of course 273 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:26.319 there's some danger possibly, But what if you found the trace s evidence would 274 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:30.440 would you then go in the area and do your investigation? Yeah for sure. 275 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:36.279 Okay, but these are guys for non certified investigators and there's even some 276 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:41.240 move fine investigators, I wouldn't want tray person around number seven. If the 277 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.799 sighting is from a distance at an arm's length, what would it take to 278 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:48.599 cover up the object? A quarter a penny, Yeah, that's the most 279 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:53.119 common one. So when you reach out your arm and you know what we're 280 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:57.119 interesting the moon. I mean what they say is a tail and all. 281 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:02.720 If you hold out your hand holding til it'll cover the moon. And even 282 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:07.160 for supposedly, for that effect where on the horizon the moon looks really big 283 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:11.480 it is when it's above you. Supposedly, if you hold out a tile 284 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.440 and all, it'll cover up the moon even when it's at the horizon. 285 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:18.680 But tilen al comes in different shapes and sizes. Not in the old days. 286 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.279 Not in the old days, things are much simpler back then. I 287 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:26.400 have to liquid caps and yeah, let's see. Try to judge the distance 288 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:32.759 from you to the object, the object's altitude and its speed. That's always 289 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:36.759 a tough one. Yeah, that's nearly impossible. But people can take the 290 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:41.440 best stab otherwise, I mean someone if you read like Bruce mccabee's analysis, 291 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.880 that's the first thing he does is he relates it to and which it should 292 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:51.640 be said in pictures or in video. Get some sort of establishing shot where 293 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:55.400 you have a tree or something with the object, because someone like Bruce mccabee 294 00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:00.119 can figure out the height of the tree and then the angle from you to 295 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.319 the top of the tree and start to try to figure out a general idea 296 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:08.039 of the heights. Right. Yeah, I mean with things in the sky, 297 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:12.240 it's difficult. You know, we've got very little to compare. But 298 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:17.240 you know, some things we see in the sky a lot are birds and 299 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:21.759 airplanes. So with speed, you can sort of use those as a comparison. 300 00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:23.839 You can say it moved about as fast as an airplane usually does. 301 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.440 Where we get the height of an airplane that an airplane usually flies one. 302 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:30.440 The cool thing with a thing like what Brews does is then you can at 303 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:34.799 least tell, okay, if that thing was a mile away, then it 304 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:38.640 was twenty feet, you know, if it was two miles away, it 305 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:42.000 was one hundred feet. So that least that gives you kind of an idea. 306 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:48.079 And then the same with speed Number nine is, should you encounter some 307 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.240 type of extraterrestrial being associated with the craft, be prepared to take evasive action 308 00:22:52.519 --> 00:23:00.720 to protect yourself. Again. Yeah, I don't think that's necessary. Well, 309 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:03.160 yeah, I mean it's lose lose. You can like try to talk 310 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:06.799 to it or you can run, but if it wants to catch you, 311 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.079 I don't think you're getting away. I think I'm beat. Yeah, you've 312 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:14.960 got as much lick. Yeah, I think if I if I take a 313 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.160 swing at it'll just piss them off. Yeah, and number ten immediately report 314 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:26.359 the event to Openminds dot TV. Is that number ten? That's number ten? 315 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:33.160 Wow? Great or any other UFO research organization. But those out of 316 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:37.240 ten, did you have those memorized? Yeah? No, I didn't have 317 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.920 this memory. Oh I'm sure you presented those many times, mister education, 318 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:44.559 not in those ten, but in a different way. Oh okay, although 319 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.759 see a couple of them. Like if you meet any t be prepared to 320 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:49.680 defend yourself. I mean I wouldn't have something like that. I can imagine 321 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.000 you presenting those in acting them out at the same time, doing all sorts 322 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.640 of karate chops and things there. You take a picture, yeah, absolutely, 323 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:02.319 take a picture, take a video, have sign a release that says 324 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:07.720 I certify, I testify that I am from another planet other than Earth. 325 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.480 So then you know it's extra treastral, so at least then you have a 326 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.559 legal document, so if he's lying and he is from Earth, you can 327 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.880 sue him at a later date for pain and effort. Well, and I 328 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:21.880 think this goes back up to number five or whatever it was. I mean, 329 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.319 if there's an extra trestraill there, that's someone else there at the sighting, 330 00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:27.680 so you need to get his account as well. Yeah, yeah, 331 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:33.000 take the tape recorder it is. I fought this weird looking earthling. Yep, 332 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:37.200 that will help Alejandro. That is it for the news. Remember to 333 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.000 check out these stories and more at open minds dot tv, your source for 334 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:44.119 UFO related news. I'm Jason McClellan, your Open Minds News correspondent, and 335 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.480 you've been briefed. And do make sure to bug Alejandro and wish him a 336 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:52.440 happy birthday yesterday. But don't do it yesterday because you'd have the time travel 337 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.279 for that. But do feel free to send him a message today wishing him 338 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.079 a happy birthday. Thank you, You're welcome, Alejandro. All right, 339 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:06.279 Well, thanks again for the great news, and there's definitely good points there. 340 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.000 Please people tripod. There are so many times and we've talked about this 341 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:14.160 that people don't have a tripod, they try to lean up against something and 342 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:18.440 it's impossible. Your hand cannot say steady. So when there's so many times 343 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:25.279 we receive these videos and people say that it was flying this way and flying 344 00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:29.160 that way, and it's impossible to tell, especially if it's a single light 345 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:33.160 in the sky, you know, and you're holding the camera. There's no 346 00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:40.359 way for a researcher to say that's not a star because your hand is moving, 347 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:44.440 and so the moving of the object in the screen is probably due to 348 00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:48.119 your hand movement. Now, if you have a tripod that your camera's on 349 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.640 and you're filming a light and it's the light is moving, then we know 350 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:56.920 something about the movement, and we know that the movement didn't have to do 351 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.599 a handshake or anything like that. Sopod. That's important. Video and filming 352 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:07.279 is important. Binoculars if you have them, are important, and then recording 353 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:12.319 exactly what you saw afterwards is really important, and recording the time because like 354 00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:17.160 that first thing said, a lot of things are not UFOs. And you 355 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:22.480 can go to a site such as Heaven's Above, which is a great site, 356 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:26.240 Heavens Dash Above, and you can go there and go look at your 357 00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.960 area at the time that you had your sighting, and it will show you 358 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:37.200 if there are any satellites or iridium flares, and it will show you how 359 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.880 intense the light is, so you'll be able to see if it's a really 360 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.720 bright object because there are oftentimes if you haven't seen an iridium flair, that's 361 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.319 a really cool thing to see because you'll see all of a sudden, it's 362 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:53.720 like it really bright and then dim out. And that is actually these iridium 363 00:26:53.720 --> 00:27:00.480 satellites I think there is their Russian and they're tumbling through space and they've they 364 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.400 know exactly when the sun's going to hit it right where it's going to light 365 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:07.039 up in the sky. So that's something fun to go watch. Go to 366 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.759 Heavens above right now and go see when there's going to be in a ridium 367 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:12.960 flare in your area, and go check that out. It'll tell you when 368 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.759 the space shuttles above all of these type of things. Now, if you 369 00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:22.640 don't see something there, then you've got something very interesting, and certainly report 370 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:25.839 it. Report it to open minds. And you know, I like to 371 00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:27.680 say reporting to move on too, because it's better to report it to more 372 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:34.559 places than less because that makes everybody's data better, so we can see correlations 373 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:41.599 between sightings. Other stories that you can read on Open Minds. Well, 374 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.400 our story from last week has gotten a lot of attention, and that was 375 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:49.680 the one with Frank Kimbler, our last guest, who did some isotopic research 376 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:55.359 on some metals and material that he found out in the desert and Roswell where 377 00:27:55.359 --> 00:28:03.599 the crash is. There was a question about the error and the there's always 378 00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:10.359 error in a test, and uh, the where the isotopes I guess landed 379 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:14.599 on this test is close to the error. H And as Frank says, 380 00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:17.599 you know, that's why he needs to do more tests. He says, 381 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:23.200 it would be rare that this uh you know would hit somewhere you know, 382 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:30.440 off the chart like it did n be error, But it's entirely possible. 383 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.920 So that's why the the other tests need to be done just to answer that 384 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:40.839 question. More tests need to be done to figure that out. Like Jason 385 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:45.720 said, we have the fireball stuff. We also have an interesting story about 386 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:52.799 UFOs over Wisconsin and this comes from the Wendell Stevens archives and really you know, 387 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:59.440 collecting decades of UFO pictures. He has some very interesting stuff there, 388 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:03.640 and we always try to get as many of these pictures into the magazine and 389 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:10.200 onto the website as possible. This was a situation where fortunately we had multiple 390 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:15.880 pictures and we had an analysis of those pictures, so those are all online. 391 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.839 Some of these, of course, look highly dubious, but some of 392 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:25.039 them not so much. And I mean it seems, especially in the seventies, 393 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:30.640 a lot of discs and we're being seen in some extraordinary photographs. So 394 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:37.079 go and check that out on our website in our article section. All of 395 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.839 those things that Jason had talked about are up there as well. And another 396 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.759 story I talked a little bit about this. It's doing very well, as 397 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:51.039 our Vietnam story, where somebody at the National Archives had written a blog about 398 00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:57.000 a UFO incident that he had found in some logs at a base in Vietnam 399 00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:02.759 during the Vietnam War and had found that so he wrote a story on that, 400 00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:08.720 and that's also a really interesting one. The base was called Chuly and 401 00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:12.559 we don't know who the person was that submitted it, but you can read 402 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:18.400 that account. Otherwise, we're keeping on top of all the fireball UFO videos 403 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:23.240 that keep appearing. It's interesting in the last couple of weeks that there's been 404 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:30.519 so many. And it's also interesting that the Epic Times has been covering all 405 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:36.119 of these stories, narrow paper out of Washington, DC. And I think 406 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:41.599 it's partially Jason's fault that they're so interested because they had posted a video he 407 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:47.880 had put up on YouTube and they've been posting a lot of UFO videos ever 408 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:52.079 since. So very interesting stuff there. So that's some of what you'll find 409 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.839 on our website. We also actually have some new YouTube videos up. Like 410 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:02.079 I've talked about. You know, we have some UFO news the stories that 411 00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:04.839 you get here, but you have Maureen talking about them, and some videos 412 00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:10.039 are showing if they're associated. We have a little more video with pictures about 413 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:15.640 the roswell UFO material that I had talked about and we always put up. 414 00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:22.079 We'll take those window pictures that I was talking about and put them on video 415 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:27.680 as well so people can watch them on YouTube. And one of those is 416 00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:33.279 from Cumberland, Rhode Island is up right now and this is kind of a 417 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:41.960 photo of a strange kind of long cylindrical type UFO photograph and Jason I put 418 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:47.559 that together on a video as well, so our YouTube is something very cool 419 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:51.240 to check out. In fact, if you go to Openminds dot tv and 420 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:56.960 scroll to the under the stories, you'll see our video section and we have 421 00:31:56.039 --> 00:32:01.759 a very cool new video player up there where you can scroll through our videos 422 00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:07.319 and check those out and watch them on the page, or click on the 423 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:10.279 video and it'll take you to YouTube. You can also easily share it to 424 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:15.039 your Twitter and your Facebook, and right there you can subscribe to our YouTube 425 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:20.440 so you're up to date whenever we put a new video out. And our 426 00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:24.160 videos are just so incredible that you're going to want to be the first to 427 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:30.680 know what's going down, so go subscribe there. However, let us go 428 00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:37.480 ahead and get Ted Peters on because I'm very interested in this subject. His 429 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:42.440 study was incredible. I mean, I love when people go and take these 430 00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:49.160 ideas missed or something like that and go apply them and do some real studies 431 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.279 to figure out whether they're real or not. And that's what mister Peters has 432 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:57.079 done. And so let's get him on and hear what he has to say 433 00:32:57.119 --> 00:33:02.319 about this. All right, Very happy to have Ted Peters on the phone. 434 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:08.319 Are you there, I'm here, Elijandro. Good, it's wonderful to 435 00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:15.000 talk to you, and I'm really excited to talk about this subject because I 436 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:19.400 just I find not only the I think you when we talked before you had 437 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:22.759 mentioned about that you know more of the discussion than whether or not they're just 438 00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:28.680 here, but the whole social aspect of it and is really interesting. Yes, 439 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:35.039 I look at UFOs as a phenomenon, and when you look at a 440 00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:40.680 phenomenon, you don't talk just about what's there the UFO itself, but also 441 00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:47.119 the person who is perceiving it or thinking about it, and it's supposed to 442 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:57.079 the viewer and what gets viewed, and things such as the psychological impact or 443 00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:04.119 the sociological impact of the person who perceives in UFOs, who believes in UFOs. 444 00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:09.840 It's just as important to me as what they themselves might be in themselves. 445 00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:20.320 What originally got you interested in looking at the subject or dealing with extraterrestural 446 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:24.760 life. Well, when I was a kid, my mother and father were 447 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:34.599 avid UFO book readers, and I can still remember a day when they went 448 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:40.440 to hear Georgia Dampski to the Great California Contact Key to hear him speak. 449 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:45.079 I was re funk at the time. I had to sail with a babysitter, 450 00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:49.280 but I couldn't wait for them to get home so I could hear well 451 00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:55.679 what it was that Dampski was saying. And there was a lot of excitement, 452 00:34:57.159 --> 00:35:06.400 and I collected newspaper clippings and magazine clippings for decades to follow the phenomenon. 453 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:10.400 Later on, when I grew up became university professor, I went back. 454 00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:17.800 Boy, so both find information to look at. So you should say, 455 00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:27.480 I'm almost say cradled great ul full OFFICIONO. Yeah, And so then 456 00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:31.119 I mean, one of the things that you've done and I think is really 457 00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:40.880 interesting, you kind of tackled this whole concept with that religions because a lot 458 00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:46.519 of people say this over and over again that religions will be greatly affected should 459 00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:52.960 the extra threastural truth come out or should there be you know people they come 460 00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:59.519 and visited outwardly and disclosure happened. And that's one of the things that's great 461 00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:04.480 is you actually did a survey to get together a lot of people figure out. 462 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:13.639 I was prompted to pursue this question because it seemed to me that religious 463 00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:20.320 people that say, someone affiliated with the church for organization were just as interested 464 00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:28.559 in UFOs as anybody else was, especially the extra trust hypothesis. Yeah, 465 00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:36.360 it seemed to be these assumptions and religion was frangile, and it was just 466 00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:43.480 great if we made contact with an extraterrestrial intelligence. One year, I received 467 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:52.440 four invitations to be interviewed to the National Enquirer, each one writing one to 468 00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:58.920 each journalists wanting to write a story on this, and I remember arguing with 469 00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.920 one, well, don't you think that if we meet E T that our 470 00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:07.880 religion will crumble? I said, no, of course not, So why 471 00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:13.559 do you think that it would? Then the interviewer said, well, because 472 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:22.280 Christianity teaches that man is the highest being, right, but there were angels 473 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:29.679 of God who quitted higher than and so each one of those ended in frustration. 474 00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:37.000 And later on, now I've become very involved in the dialogue between science 475 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:45.519 and religion, especially currently astro biology and those scientists who are really looking at 476 00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:51.440 what's happening in outer space. And I noticed that these scientists seem to make 477 00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:57.719 the same assumption that actual contact with ET will be destructive to religion. It 478 00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:05.800 will cause a crisis and belief wholson will fall apart. I thought, not 479 00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:10.679 true. At least, well, let's test it and see. And with 480 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:19.119 that in mind, I launched into the peers ETI Religious christ Survey, and 481 00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:23.679 it survey, for the most part, confirms what I induitably had bought, 482 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:31.079 and certainly not what the skeptics have thought. So you were at your professor 483 00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:40.320 at the Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary when you started this survey. Did your colleagues 484 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:47.639 know what you were up to? No? And in general, in general, 485 00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:59.159 this is a topic that's relatively new. I plunge ahead on frontiers of 486 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:04.599 my own from the high at the time, since I did conduct the survey 487 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:13.000 that yes, it's generated quite a bit of interest. I teach hear it. 488 00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:19.239 As you mentioned that Pacific Lucan Theological Seminary. But this is also part 489 00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:24.880 of a larger group called the Grants of Theological Union, which conducts theological studies 490 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:34.519 and religious studies for a wide variety of groups Christians, book Protestant and Catholic. 491 00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:37.920 We have a center for Jewish Studies, an institute from Buddhist studies, 492 00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:45.239 an institute for Islamic studies, et cetera. And so this was a good 493 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:52.960 place to carry on that kind of conversation, and individuals here and there are 494 00:39:53.280 --> 00:40:00.599 interested, but I can't say this a ground flow of interested in this particular 495 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:07.159 topics. So I pursue it with connections in the scholarly world and in the 496 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:17.480 non scholarly world wherever people might be. Just sure, quickly, when was 497 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.000 it that you put together the survey and then started getting, you know, 498 00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:31.719 sending it out two thousand and eight. I had read one or two surveys 499 00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:37.599 that had attempted to get at this and felt that I could construct a slightly 500 00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:45.159 more complex one, which we did. I'm not going to brag that was 501 00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:53.800 as high a quality a survey as as one might expect by professional surveyors. 502 00:40:54.519 --> 00:41:01.199 Yet I do think that out of thirteen hundred and twenty five in our sample, 503 00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:07.639 that enough in the way of patterns merge, so I can have a 504 00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:13.679 fairly high degree of confidence that it does tell us quite a bit. That's 505 00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:17.639 important. Yeah, I think that's great. One of the surveys that you 506 00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:22.760 said that you kind of had looked at that was similar was a Victoria Alexander, 507 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:29.760 who's instantly John Alexander's wife, who is someone well known in this field, 508 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:32.800 and so she was it looked like the first in this area to kind 509 00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:38.639 of take a stab at this yes, And when I read her survey, 510 00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:46.400 I tuitively thought, well, of course that's right. And she had had 511 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:54.000 gained information from clergy, and the clergy didn't seem to have a lot of 512 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:04.880 well or only include positive. The clergy seem to have a very positive or 513 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:13.639 welcoming posture towards the prospect of ETI. I think what I did that added 514 00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:22.719 to it was greater discrimination between religious groups themselves. And what I was hoping 515 00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:29.360 for is that I could actually begin to look theologically at what people might be 516 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:37.559 saying about this particular topic. We didn't sharply distinguish between clergy, lay, 517 00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:44.599 and religious, but we did make some attempt to discriminate between those three some 518 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:49.639 categories, and for the most part, it didn't make a difference. I 519 00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:53.599 say, a clergy person in a lay person in the same religious group are 520 00:42:53.760 --> 00:43:00.559 likely to think the same way. And then you know, and then when 521 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:06.840 you get to it, I mean that what like guts, question three is 522 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:12.639 kind of the big question already hear the official confirmation of the discovery of a 523 00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:17.239 civilization of intelligent beings living on other planets would so undertone my beliefs, that 524 00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:22.719 my beliefs would face a crisis, and the three things they can answer with 525 00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:30.199 agree strongly agree, neither agree nor disagree, or disagree strongly disagree. And 526 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:40.119 the overwhelming response was in the disagree overwhelmingly. And that applies to Roman Catholics, 527 00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:47.400 who applies to Evangelical Christians, which includes fundamentalists. We did not break 528 00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:57.800 that into two subgroups. It includes mainline Protestants, it includes with us. 529 00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:04.119 We got a large enough sample on us to have some confidence. Our samples 530 00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:12.519 for some groups turned out to be too small to render a judgment that it 531 00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:21.719 goes for people of Jewish and Muslim traditions. However, the very small samples 532 00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:28.679 that came in were consistent with all the other groups. And then the comments 533 00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:35.840 we did ask for spontaneous comments were consistent across the board. You could find 534 00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:40.760 a Muslim will put us and the evangelical Christian all saying this universe is so 535 00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:46.920 big and so much could happen there, that there very well could be extraterrestrial 536 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:53.039 life, intelligent life, and if so, this is part of God's plan. 537 00:44:53.400 --> 00:45:00.960 Whether you call God God or Allah or in the case of with us, 538 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:07.800 in all my religious understanding of the universe would not be negatively affected and 539 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:14.719 sometimes with some consistency, would it be arrogant for us to think that we 540 00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:21.960 here on Earth are the only sentient beings or only intelligent beings that God would 541 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:28.880 make so that was consistent? Were there anybody as an individual disagree? Well, 542 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:32.760 yes, of course so, But we're just talking about how large the 543 00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:38.119 numbers are ratively seek Yeah, I you know, looking at the survey, 544 00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:43.880 I would fit in the Buddhist or the non religious. But I my answers 545 00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.360 to your question spent more along the Buddhist line, which I thought was interesting. 546 00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:58.159 But some of the answers that you've got in your comments, we're pretty 547 00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:00.880 funny, pretty interesting. I like the one in this question someone said I'd 548 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:07.400 share a few with extraterrestrials any day. I just love that most Yeah, 549 00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:10.800 I'd share a few with an extraterrestrial any day. And I think that person 550 00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:17.039 was in the mainline Protestant category who added that one. Yeah, I loved 551 00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:21.320 it, And you know what it shows this question. First of all, 552 00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:24.840 right off the bat, like you said, it disproved this idea that you 553 00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:30.400 know, religions probably would be majorly affected. And it also kind of disproves 554 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:36.440 another idea that which is what I was getting at with a non religious kind 555 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:44.400 of thing, is that you were demonstrating that the non religious kind of have 556 00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:50.800 a perspective that the religious are more closed minded. But that's another reason I 557 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:55.840 love this comment to the religious person who's obviously not closed minded and say, 558 00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:01.039 share a few with an extraterrestrial any day. Yes, I think you're right. 559 00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:08.119 A phrase such open minded or close bunded that came up frequently in the 560 00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:16.800 comments, and those people who are worried that religion might be tragile and suffer 561 00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:24.559 a crisis tend to be the non religious, and the self of self identified 562 00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:34.480 non religious people in the survey frequently described themselves as open minded and described religious 563 00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:42.079 people as closed minded. And so a non religious person can say, I 564 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:47.119 welcome UFOs, but those other religious people over there, those close minded, 565 00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:57.239 doctor dogmatic religious people, they're going to suffer at this particular point. And 566 00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:04.719 it appeared clear from a survey that the only group that has this worry about 567 00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:09.880 the fragility of religion are the non religious. Now pointing out that we didn't 568 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:19.880 divide or try to discriminate between nonreligious people who are atheistic on the one hand, 569 00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:25.400 and non religious people who are spiritual but not religious on the other. 570 00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:30.159 And in that second category there would be a number of new agers, and 571 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:37.920 so there were among the non religious theists as well as atheists. If we 572 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:43.760 were to do the survey again, or if somebody else would like to follow 573 00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:47.760 it up for the more refined instrument, it would be good to distinguish that 574 00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:55.760 those two different components within the non religious and to see if they come out 575 00:48:55.800 --> 00:49:00.480 the same or if they come out differently. Right. And one of the 576 00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:07.920 interesting part is that because I mean you had mentioned how doctor Jill Carter with 577 00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:13.760 that steady and some of the comments she had made about religious having a problem 578 00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:20.119 with sort of one of the inspirations or an example of the belief that's out 579 00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:28.639 there that you're trying to test, and the non religious, the very scientific, 580 00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:34.280 hard line scientists would probably fit more in that atheist category as opposed to 581 00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:38.079 that kind of like you said, yes, I work with that image. 582 00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:43.880 Two of your heart knows scientists gets up in the morning, leads day ols 583 00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:52.360 for breakfast, you know, facts that kind of person. And it's also 584 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:59.960 the case with many scientists. And I do not want to say every scientist, 585 00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:07.480 for sure, But there are many scientists who feel that a naturalistic picture 586 00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:15.039 of the world is a superior one, and that religious thinking is primitive and 587 00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:23.800 outdated, and that we could render judgment us that way. Religion is closed 588 00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:31.039 minded and doctrinaire and dogmatic, and science is open minded, and it would 589 00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:38.719 follow them that a scientifically trained person is more likely to accept extraterrestrial life than 590 00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:45.760 a religious dolt. But with regard to Jill Tarter, and I've had an 591 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:52.760 opportunity in recent years to spend a paramount of time at SETI with SETI people, 592 00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:58.639 and Jill has hurt me on this topic a couple of times, and 593 00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:02.760 on one occasion she that I just find it hard to believe the results of 594 00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:13.360 your survey because fundamentalists and evangelical Christians that she's acquainted with new register a negative 595 00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:21.119 reaction to the prospect of ET contact. And to see them in my survey 596 00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:30.239 standing next to liberal Protestants and Roman Catholics and others not showing much difference, 597 00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:35.360 well, that was just a surprise to her. Well, maybe it's a 598 00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:43.119 surprise everybody. I'm not certain, but I think that Jill, and perhaps 599 00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:51.320 others in this category operate with the image well, fundamentals and evangelicals are so 600 00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:58.480 narrow that they could not absorb radically new things. Maybe that's an image of 601 00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:05.960 the stereotype around scientific circles, and at least on the question of whether or 602 00:52:06.039 --> 00:52:12.000 not we could live with ETI in our neighborhood. Maybe the results of the 603 00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:16.239 survey are a little bit surprising. Yeah, Now, I was not surprised 604 00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:21.400 by your findings that I think it makes sense, and you answered some questions 605 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:25.320 as to why this persist, and we'll get into that later this idea, 606 00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:31.079 but I was a little bit surprised at how much, you know, how 607 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:38.360 strongly people felt their beliefs would not be affected. And I love question four 608 00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:45.519 because question four also shows something interesting because question three was will your personal beliefs 609 00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:52.559 be affected or face a crisis? Question four is will your religious tradition face 610 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:58.400 a crisis? And there was a slight difference, even though it is the 611 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:04.480 only slight where a few more agreed that their religious tradition may be affected. 612 00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:13.599 But if I were a Roman Catholic lay person, I would say, oh, 613 00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.480 my faith won't be hurt it all. But you know what, I'm 614 00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:22.440 going to worry about the bishop and the archbishop right, they would get a 615 00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:25.960 shot. And that's the only way I could read that result. But I 616 00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:36.000 find it interesting that there is a noticeable change that significant overall, but certainly 617 00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:42.360 within that group. So many individuals indicated that my faith won't be undercut, 618 00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:45.840 but the other person sitting next to me in the pew or the one in 619 00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:52.679 the chancel, they're going to have a problem. Yeah, So I think 620 00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:55.360 that's an interesting answer. And of course, you know, personal beliefs, 621 00:53:55.400 --> 00:54:01.840 people can be more flexible than large organizations. But it also kind of gets 622 00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:07.480 to because you had some answers in this you know, such as most people 623 00:54:07.719 --> 00:54:10.960 like Mormons, for instance, saying you know, we already believe in an 624 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:16.320 extraterrestrial Buddhist saying we already believed in other planets and things like that, and 625 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:22.159 the only religion and Paul Davids, who you refer to in this document, 626 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:27.760 you know, he talked about how Roman Catholics might have an issue because philosophically 627 00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:34.159 there's some things there, but Roman Catholics are the ones who are really wrapping 628 00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:39.679 their arms around trying to resolve that issue, and they're you know, having 629 00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:49.280 astrobiological or astrobiology conferences and things like that. Yes, I think it's a 630 00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:55.480 surprised frequently for people in the media to learn that the Vatican has sponsored its 631 00:54:55.679 --> 00:55:04.280 all observatory for pushing forceies. Now, they might not have liked Galileo, 632 00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:10.519 but they certainly took that into the telescope when and I've had an opportunity now 633 00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:17.119 since nineteen eighty seven to work with back in the observatory. Astronomers and looking 634 00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:23.360 for extraterrestrial life has been part of their agenda, at least for the current 635 00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:30.880 generation of astronomers and astrophysicists, and maybe they inherited it. I don't know 636 00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:36.679 how far it goes back. So once in a while you'll see a news 637 00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:43.320 clipping where someone will have interviewed somebody from the Vatican Observatory and then they're flabbergast, 638 00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:50.119 Oh, my goodness, Church is actually looking for ET And I want 639 00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:54.559 to say, that's really old news. Yeah, it will be news when 640 00:55:54.599 --> 00:56:00.159 they find ET, but right now all it's old news that they're looking and 641 00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:07.519 obviously they're not going to have any theological difficulties if they're lucky, just as 642 00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:14.280 you know many other secular spiders, and that's the physicists are lucky. Now, 643 00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:21.280 this philosophical issue that the Roman Catholics have that called David brings up hasn't 644 00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:24.480 necessarily I don't know, and you would have more insight been resolved amongst the 645 00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:30.360 scholars and the philosophers and the theologians and the Roman Catholicism. We are talking 646 00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:36.719 about it. But Bunez, who's in charge of the observatory, has come 647 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:39.960 out and that it's okay to believe in extraterrestrials and they would be our brothers. 648 00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:45.679 Do you think the philosophical differences will be an issue that they will resolve 649 00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:52.440 that or what are your insights into that whole aspect? Well? With regard 650 00:56:52.519 --> 00:57:00.239 to who and the other Jesuits, who are the researchers as the bat Conservatory, 651 00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:12.960 George Point, Bill Staker and scientists such as that they're just interested in 652 00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:17.360 finding them, they would they would give them a good day, you know, 653 00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:28.400 to actually cover et. With regard to what comes next, there isn't 654 00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:32.840 really a lot of philosophical speculation, at least as I hang around with that 655 00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:40.320 particular group. I'm sure that philosophical questions will come up, but right now, 656 00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:45.039 at this particular point, they don't invest a lot of time and energy 657 00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:49.599 in them. I could add, however, and this is a concern with 658 00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:55.920 Paul Davies, who we just mentioned, that a theological issue having to do 659 00:57:57.079 --> 00:58:02.880 with the incarnation of God in Christ will come up and has come up amongst 660 00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:10.960 theologians for quite a while. And that question is, when we think of 661 00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:17.760 God and partied in Jesus Christ in human history here on earth, would it 662 00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:24.039 be well that suffice for the whole universe, or are we likely to see 663 00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:31.920 similar incarnations and other species on other planets? And you can find theological muscle 664 00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:40.119 picking up one or another of those two alternatives and Jesuit sitting around having their 665 00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:45.599 share in the late afternoon as after our day's work. Of course, we 666 00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:49.320 have to say this before a hard night's work, because they were in a 667 00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:53.440 nice guy over the day's guy to be looking at the start. That's the 668 00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:59.039 kind of conversation you'll hear. And as far as I know, there's no 669 00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:05.320 one dominant point of view, either for Catholics or Protestants to deal with that 670 00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:13.079 question of a single incarnation versus multiple incarnations. Is it a Protestant issue to 671 00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:19.079 add? And if so, or if not, why not? I do 672 00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:22.440 think that a Protestant would have to confront this in exactly the same way. 673 00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:29.639 I just think that there are more Catholics busy at work on this question than 674 00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:36.519 Protestants. Mm hm, so yeah, so people aren't worrying about that too 675 00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:40.599 much. Then, no, they're not worrying. And what the interesting things 676 00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:47.039 about critics such as called Davies and others. He says that or assumes that 677 00:59:49.719 --> 00:59:55.440 this is what makes Christianity so fragile and so subject to crisis, is that 678 00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:01.639 they could not resolve this question of single poltical incarnations. Well, to me, 679 01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:07.519 the evidence is clear that it will not precipitate a crisis. Yes, 680 01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:14.480 the debate will go on, but a debate shows that people are pretty comfortable 681 01:00:14.599 --> 01:00:20.480 with discussing both sides of the question. So that's that's what makes me think. 682 01:00:21.079 --> 01:00:23.440 You know, it's not going to provide a crisis. It will provide 683 01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:29.400 an opportunity for theological debate. But we've had theological debates going all the way 684 01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:35.400 back to the Bible. This is nothing new here, and the theological debate 685 01:00:35.480 --> 01:00:38.800 does not suggest a crisis at all. Well. I grew up Roman Catholic, 686 01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:45.360 and it seems like there are a lot of theologians who get excited when 687 01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:50.760 it comes to having something to debate. Yes. Yes. In fact, 688 01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:57.239 our understanding of the rules for debate, for the most part, are drawn 689 01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:06.079 from the nidd medieval Catholic process of having a dialogue, where one person puts 690 01:01:06.159 --> 01:01:12.079 down a thesis and argues for it to someone puts down a counter thesis and 691 01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:16.719 argues for the bad. So that's part of the whole tradition. In fact, 692 01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:24.159 eulogians become eulogians at large part because they want to argue right. So 693 01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:29.639 this moves us on then to question five. And I think this is a 694 01:01:29.800 --> 01:01:37.960 big key because you thus far have pretty much disproven the idea that religions for 695 01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:43.400 the base a crisis. But then you ask, even though my religious viewpoint 696 01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:49.880 won't face a crisis, what about those other religions? And there was a 697 01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:52.960 pretty decent response that, oh, yeah, my religion's going to be fine, 698 01:01:52.960 --> 01:01:59.719 but those other religions they're in trouble. Yeah. I don't know how 699 01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:07.079 to explain that, but I find it humans very humorous that people would think 700 01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:15.320 that. One of the things that puzzles me. And you'll notice that we 701 01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:25.800 have almost seventy percent of the non religious affirming agree or stroggly agreed about that. 702 01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:31.719 So that means a person will say, I am not religious, but 703 01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:37.519 I believe that all those Hindus and Muslims and Christians over there, they're going 704 01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:45.400 to have a problem that I won't have. It puzzles me because I suspect 705 01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:52.480 that some of those people in the non religious category grew up religious. How 706 01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:58.719 many times could you find a story such as Gil Wilson and others. I 707 01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:04.400 grew up in evjelt, but I gave up my faith when I learned about 708 01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:13.639 evolution or something like that. So now as a mature person perhaps embracio agnosticism 709 01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:20.159 or atheism, they remember what religion was like as a kid, and now 710 01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:25.000 they don't have religion anymore, and then they're going to say that religion is 711 01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:30.440 fragile and subject to a crisis. I'd just like to know more about what 712 01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:37.679 goes on in a person's mind there, because it's not as though they're like 713 01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:43.440 ignorance of religion. I mean, if they have some knowledge to the child's 714 01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:50.320 knowledge, and it would be good to test again and try if we find 715 01:03:50.440 --> 01:03:55.760 that and just see what what the thinking is. A maybe you have some 716 01:03:57.320 --> 01:04:03.639 speculation there is just how are not religious persons buying the works when the really 717 01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:08.760 relis well, I think that you just said. I mean a lot of 718 01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:15.239 non religious people also are rebellious of their religion, and unfortunately, I think, 719 01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:19.280 are overly critical of the religion they used to belong to, and then 720 01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:23.639 make the assumption that others. I think you hit a point too, is 721 01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:30.880 the ignorance that not only are the non religious ignorant of the other religion, 722 01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:34.639 every religions ignorant of the others. I think a paper like yours sheds light 723 01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:41.480 on the extraterrestrial discussions that are going on in a lot of the different religions. 724 01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:44.119 You know, and I think you know, a Roman Catholic thinks, 725 01:04:44.199 --> 01:04:47.280 well, we're so smart, we're figuring this out and we're having conferences. 726 01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:51.199 But you know, the Protestants over there, they better start figuring it out, 727 01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:56.480 or the Mormons. They're probably in trouble. Without even knowing that the 728 01:04:56.559 --> 01:05:01.840 Mormons are like, hey, we already figured this out. I would imagine 729 01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:09.679 that might be an issue. I wonder, as you talk that way, 730 01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:14.639 I wonder if it could be just our group versus another group. I wonder 731 01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:18.760 if you were to test Democrats and Republicans, and maybe the Republicans would say, 732 01:05:18.880 --> 01:05:25.079 ETI would cause a crisis amongst the temies. That's a great question, 733 01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:29.199 and I bet you're right. I bet you they would. I bet you, 734 01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:34.159 Yeah, that would be so interesting, that's funny. But I think 735 01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:42.159 you know what else this question reveals is why this mythology or yeah, this 736 01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:46.199 idea that religions are going to have a problem persists because if you have, 737 01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:49.679 you know a lot of people thinking I'm going to be okay, but they're 738 01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:54.679 not. It demonstrates how, of course then most people think, oh, 739 01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:59.639 religions are going to have a trouble, but with the sidebar there which you'd 740 01:05:59.719 --> 01:06:02.679 never here, which is luckily ours will be okay and everybody else is going 741 01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:06.920 to be in trouble right right. So I think this is the key to 742 01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:13.480 why that whole idea for sit And you know, to your answer with Jill 743 01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:18.239 Tarter on her thing about being so surprised, it's another example. I think 744 01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:23.280 of a non religious person, I'm not so surprised because I'm in this field 745 01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:29.199 and I pay attention to all the different people discussing extra thresh rules, and 746 01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:33.239 I realized that a lot of religions and groups are discussing this or okay with 747 01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:41.719 it, whereas someone like her may not be aware of that. Yes, 748 01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:47.159 it's maybe if we make up our mind what religious people are like, we 749 01:06:47.320 --> 01:06:54.840 don't really want to invest the energy friend out whether what we have thought was 750 01:06:54.960 --> 01:07:01.800 really on the mark or not. I'm getting back to try to read the 751 01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:09.719 mind of a person who is scientifically educated, who feels that religion was something 752 01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:14.880 we enjoyed as a child, that when being mature, we give it up 753 01:07:15.079 --> 01:07:23.559 and we replace it with what science that if you were to then extrapolate, 754 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:28.639 extrapolate to the evolutionary history of the human race or something like that, you 755 01:07:28.760 --> 01:07:33.360 might want to say, well, religion was primitive, and we who believe 756 01:07:33.679 --> 01:07:41.719 in the scientific understanding of reality, we are the advanced ones. I see 757 01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:47.400 that assumption at work in what I call the ETI myth. And yes, 758 01:07:47.639 --> 01:07:56.440 people in the contemporary age the scientific aide just as capable of thinking mythologically as 759 01:07:56.800 --> 01:08:03.239 others. Included in this myth would be the idea that science is highly evolved 760 01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:13.079 and religion is less highly evolved. And those of us who were scientists were 761 01:08:13.239 --> 01:08:18.279 the ones who are going to actually make contact with ET. And maybe ET 762 01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:26.960 is more highly evolved than we are, and perhaps on their planet in their 763 01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:32.159 evolutionary development, they were religious wants, but they gave it up for science. 764 01:08:33.079 --> 01:08:39.359 And eventually we're building a picture here in which those of us who are 765 01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:45.319 scientists are top fogs, were the most highly evolved, were the most advanced, 766 01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:50.560 and the scientists on Earth then could develop a fraternity with a scientists on 767 01:08:50.760 --> 01:09:00.880 Zeta two particular, and just sitting around feeling superior to those are your religious 768 01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:05.640 people. I'm just trying to read the mind, or to put it in 769 01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:12.600 another way, to look at the thought structure of people for whom it will 770 01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:21.319 be important thing that religion is tragile and unprepared, unprepared to deal with easy 771 01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:26.199 contact. Yeah, it's kind of funny. It reminds me. It makes 772 01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:30.479 me think of, you know, maybe Joe Carter comic with her shaking an 773 01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:33.359 alien's hand and the alien going, oh, it's nice to meet you scientists. 774 01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:40.199 What's with those crazy religious people on their planet? Yes, I think 775 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:47.279 that's right to the point kind of this idea, So and which you is 776 01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:53.439 a question that you tackled also later on in this thing. But I think 777 01:09:53.479 --> 01:10:00.079 that's what's great. You kind of answered the questions, and I mean, 778 01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:08.880 finally did it in a way with like you said, over thirteen hundred people 779 01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:16.479 that you talked to to Finally, but's that myth like the MythBusters? Yeah, 780 01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:24.960 I think it's a we busted a myth in the sense of putting an 781 01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:34.119 assumption to challenge and revealing what perhaps many people will find as a surprise, 782 01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:42.439 and to go on and impress the analysis. Maybe a number of people that 783 01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:48.199 be disappointed if they have this belief that religion is primitive and out of date 784 01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:57.840 and science is modern and up to date. I want to go ahead and 785 01:10:58.079 --> 01:11:06.319 then a couple of other analytical perspectives, one of which is, see how 786 01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:15.520 religion doesn't really go away, It just changes its form, and in a 787 01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:23.680 non religious or anti religious period of our culture, which we've had now since 788 01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:30.399 the Enlightenment, religion comes back. But it comes back subtly in belief systems, 789 01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:35.239 not as an organized church, but as a set of beliefs that we 790 01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:44.000 seem to have to work with this assumption, for example, that life evolves 791 01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:51.199 from something simple to something complex, from something stupid to something very intelligent. 792 01:11:54.079 --> 01:12:00.760 We export then to another planet and we think that life light is started there 793 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:10.920 and follows this progressive channel of evolutionary development until the equivalent of Homo sapiens fears 794 01:12:11.079 --> 01:12:20.319 it continues to cultivate intelligence. Intelligence must be reproductively adaptable on other planets as 795 01:12:20.399 --> 01:12:28.359 well as it is here, and eventually intelligent people may have religion, but 796 01:12:28.479 --> 01:12:31.359 then they go on then they become scientific. And when they're scientific, they 797 01:12:31.479 --> 01:12:39.079 create technology, and they create radios to send signals to us here in space. 798 01:12:39.239 --> 01:12:44.520 And if they've been at this longer there three point three point eight billion 799 01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:49.800 years we have on Earth, then they're more intelligence than we are. They're 800 01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:54.840 brighter than we are. And then you say, oh, my goodness, 801 01:12:54.840 --> 01:13:00.119 they must have had achievements already in medicine as to how people from disease, 802 01:13:00.319 --> 01:13:06.560 maybe even established ever lasting life. Maybe they have put an end to war, 803 01:13:08.680 --> 01:13:14.600 and they've achieved economic justice. And the image rows that I'm not making 804 01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:20.560 this up because you can actually see it work in SETI scientists as well as 805 01:13:20.680 --> 01:13:29.239 many UFO believers. And we have here there more highly evolved society that has 806 01:13:29.319 --> 01:13:33.600 all kinds of qualities and traits that are superior to hours. And you know 807 01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:38.880 what, if we could have contact with them, we would figit it from 808 01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:45.920 this and they would share their medicine and longevity with us, they would share 809 01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:48.720 peace and justice with us, and all these types of things. Well, 810 01:13:48.800 --> 01:13:54.119 there is not a shred of empirical evidence at all from the scientific point of 811 01:13:54.199 --> 01:13:57.319 view, that such a civilization persists. But the boy, we want to 812 01:13:57.399 --> 01:14:02.960 believe in it, and it just looks like heavens. It looks like angels 813 01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:13.479 coming with sheets instead of on gossiper. And so what picking is is that 814 01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:17.199 any religious beliefs has just sort of going underground, and now they pop up 815 01:14:17.279 --> 01:14:25.439 again in belief systems surrounding ETI, which would include some UFO believers, but 816 01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:31.840 clearly in the case of SETI and others, those who are strictly it would 817 01:14:31.880 --> 01:14:36.439 think of themselves as being strictly scientific characters. Now, I don't want to 818 01:14:38.479 --> 01:14:45.760 impugne the science that has been done here, all right, As I said, 819 01:14:45.800 --> 01:14:48.720 I know Sadi scientists. They do produce the knowledge there, it's what 820 01:14:49.079 --> 01:15:01.920 do The framework in which they work has these mythological consumptions with which they work. 821 01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:06.800 So this is not something you can test for in survey, but it 822 01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:14.319 is part of my analysis of what makes a contemporary secular society work, and 823 01:15:14.399 --> 01:15:19.439 that is that we have these supplemented religious beliefs that are given different labels such 824 01:15:19.439 --> 01:15:27.359 as, you know, evolutional or something like that. Well, one thing 825 01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:31.800 that I'm you know, because I'm not you know, definitely some total SETI 826 01:15:31.920 --> 01:15:40.880 passure, but certainly am critical of there are because these are scientists. But 827 01:15:41.479 --> 01:15:50.319 they certainly have very strong opinions that are purely based off of speculation, such 828 01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:58.119 as this one that you actually did the work to discover was not necessarily true. 829 01:15:59.239 --> 01:16:01.439 But a lot of those, and you know, especially in astronomy, 830 01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:09.119 when they're finding new things that they never could have imagined existed on a regular 831 01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:14.359 basis. What was one of the latest where planets that didn't have a not 832 01:16:14.479 --> 01:16:18.600 attached to sun just floating out there in places, I mean on a monthly 833 01:16:18.720 --> 01:16:25.800 basis. It seems they find these amazing discoveries they never thought possible. I 834 01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:30.960 think this is a very good point, and it's a subtle point that belief 835 01:16:31.079 --> 01:16:40.840 in the ETI mith is a prop or a heuristy. It's something that gets 836 01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:46.159 the scientists going in order to pursue for research. You know, the last 837 01:16:46.279 --> 01:16:55.399 I observed a list of Excel planets was somewhere around fifteen hundreds and it is 838 01:16:55.720 --> 01:17:02.800 the assumptions that we may that turned asun get us excited and lead us to 839 01:17:03.119 --> 01:17:11.119 construct research programs to go after them and find them. And there's no question 840 01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:16.399 in my mind that this new knowledge is very valuable to us. And if 841 01:17:16.479 --> 01:17:23.239 it starts out with speculation and if it ends up with new knowledge, I 842 01:17:23.359 --> 01:17:28.039 want to say, hello, it's a good point. That's a really good 843 01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:31.640 point. It's very possible then the etach that Well found to be true. 844 01:17:32.119 --> 01:17:40.520 It is just that we need to distinguish between speculative assumptions that look mythological on 845 01:17:40.600 --> 01:17:45.359 the one hand, with the actual data that we gain from pursuing the research 846 01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:50.079 on the other. And set he really has produced a lot of interesting knowledge, 847 01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:56.199 as other astrobiologists have produced for us. Yeah. Well, and you 848 01:17:56.279 --> 01:17:59.800 know, the majority of the astrobiologists, at least a lot of the big 849 01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:02.640 way I know, Mitschia, Kaku and Sagan and David, they all have 850 01:18:02.840 --> 01:18:06.800 the idea you're talking about that they're more involved in everything. And personally, 851 01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:12.640 I'll admit that I have that feeling, although I understand that it's certainly not 852 01:18:13.399 --> 01:18:17.479 empirically provable. In fact, you know, democracy, which is a very 853 01:18:17.560 --> 01:18:26.000 advanced way of governance. It's been and around for a long time. It's 854 01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:31.760 gone away and come back, you know. But it certainly inspires me because 855 01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:38.239 if I had the philosophical belief that they're probably bad guys out there, I 856 01:18:38.279 --> 01:18:45.640 wouldn't be as enthusiastic about finding them. These are good observations. I had 857 01:18:45.680 --> 01:18:50.840 not thought about the democracy anology. I mean, it is true that twenty 858 01:18:51.079 --> 01:18:59.680 four hundred years ago we had the democracy of each Greece and it went away 859 01:19:00.199 --> 01:19:08.479 came back. I think with regard to belief in the ETI myth, I 860 01:19:08.680 --> 01:19:13.079 know, as a kid, I wanted it to be true, and now 861 01:19:13.119 --> 01:19:15.039 as it grown up, I kind of wanted to be true in the fact 862 01:19:15.079 --> 01:19:24.960 of appointed that we have a proven it true after all of these decades. 863 01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:31.720 And I think keeping the myth alive is probably not a problem as long as 864 01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:36.680 we recognize what it is, that it is myth, or it is a 865 01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:45.279 framework, or it is a set of as yet unprovement assumptions, and recognize 866 01:19:45.359 --> 01:19:49.720 that only when we get the dating in do we have something that merits forward 867 01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:58.479 the science. But in the meantime, it's where the excitement and asking the 868 01:19:58.600 --> 01:20:02.439 question times. Yeah, yep, yeah, I would even say, you 869 01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:09.880 know, even maybe uh irrationally at times I fanticize and lean on it like 870 01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:12.800 a crutch. And maybe it's because I think of, you know, things 871 01:20:12.880 --> 01:20:20.199 like Star Trek, whether they have these wonderful futuristic adventures and and humanity, 872 01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:25.479 and they're also nice to each other and everything, which is great kind of 873 01:20:25.600 --> 01:20:32.720 vision. Yes, I noticed Stephen Hawking about this term. A year ago. 874 01:20:34.159 --> 01:20:44.319 British physicists had cited that for the spacelings out there on other planets are 875 01:20:44.439 --> 01:20:49.479 probably a lot like us, and they probably rape and pillage and destroy, 876 01:20:51.159 --> 01:20:57.159 and maybe we should not be sending them signals because then they could find us 877 01:20:57.279 --> 01:21:03.640 and they'll come here and lay our planets to destruction. And his analogy was 878 01:21:03.720 --> 01:21:10.319 the way the Europeans treated the Native Americans in North America, then that's the 879 01:21:10.359 --> 01:21:14.399 way they're going to treat us on Earth. So the conclusion would be, 880 01:21:14.600 --> 01:21:20.880 don't let them know we're here behinde. Well, that's anopolists. I mean 881 01:21:20.920 --> 01:21:29.520 there's a certain launching to that as well. And if we made that assumption, 882 01:21:29.760 --> 01:21:36.640 then we probably would just color here in our own darkness. So we 883 01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:45.159 have to have some positive motives, some positive gimmings that gives us the enthusiasm 884 01:21:45.359 --> 01:21:50.000 to pursue research in our space, and if Stephen Hawky were in charge, 885 01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:56.319 we probably would have no motive to do so. Yeah. So I guess 886 01:21:56.600 --> 01:21:59.800 often this research, which I love so much, but kind of into your 887 01:21:59.840 --> 01:22:06.439 own personal beliefs. Do you believe that visitation is happening? I actually bracket 888 01:22:06.520 --> 01:22:14.479 that out as a scientific question, like many in the field of ufology, 889 01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:24.079 After you have feared away all the ifos that identified objects and you have this 890 01:22:24.359 --> 01:22:32.079 ten percent residual of still unidentified flying objects, that becomes the most interesting, 891 01:22:32.319 --> 01:22:38.079 and then you look for continuities and discontinuities. And as I mentioned, I 892 01:22:38.279 --> 01:22:44.640 would like to believe they are extraterrestrials, just like plot who was in the 893 01:22:44.720 --> 01:22:50.239 movie, that they there but still coming, prefer and providing a catalyst for 894 01:22:51.399 --> 01:23:01.159 Earth's betterment. I would like to believe that, But as yet the compilation 895 01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:12.279 really good UFO antecdotes of reports does not give us a high degree of confidents 896 01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:18.840 in this. And if they are flying machines with UFHO nots in them, 897 01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:24.079 which I hope they are, let me just say we're not ready yet to 898 01:23:24.560 --> 01:23:30.159 say that with a high degree of confident. Now, if I were one 899 01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:36.000 of the individual contact kees, then I would say, well, I know, 900 01:23:36.680 --> 01:23:44.319 I know for sure I'm not in that particular category, and so that's 901 01:23:44.359 --> 01:23:46.640 why I say I brackt it out. I would like to call the existence 902 01:23:46.760 --> 01:23:55.439 or non existence of et on Earth as a scientific question yet to be answered. 903 01:23:55.600 --> 01:24:00.319 In the meantime, having done a large number of UFOs, I need 904 01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:06.760 investigations myself and talk with people whom I must judge to be both saved and 905 01:24:06.920 --> 01:24:12.239 having integrity. Who are you, gopule witnesses? I want to say there's 906 01:24:12.319 --> 01:24:20.439 something going on there that genuinely is But like spinning wheels in the slush in 907 01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:27.760 late winter, we've been spinning wheels for six years now and still haven't got 908 01:24:28.039 --> 01:24:32.279 traction. I've not given up by any means, but I still am looking 909 01:24:32.319 --> 01:24:35.079 forward to the day when we get some traction we have to go on. 910 01:24:38.319 --> 01:24:42.479 So, of course, in a group who's been spinnings and wheels are the 911 01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:45.039 main guys out there trying to look for some traction, move on, you're 912 01:24:45.079 --> 01:24:51.720 going to be speaking with them. Is this like the first UFO oriented conference 913 01:24:51.760 --> 01:24:57.960 that you've spoken to? No, In fact, I gave it bread like 914 01:24:58.159 --> 01:25:03.680 this in nineteen seventy nine move On meeting, and in the days when Walter 915 01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:11.760 Andres was the head of move On, I did stay in continuous communication with 916 01:25:13.359 --> 01:25:19.720 Walter and visited him a couple of times, and his had a research center 917 01:25:19.880 --> 01:25:28.680 in his garage. I have that was the Louisiana State investigator to move On 918 01:25:29.039 --> 01:25:34.239 for a period of time and did some firsthand interviewing. I was far more 919 01:25:34.479 --> 01:25:40.279 involved in the nineteen seventies with the UFO phenomenon than I am now, and 920 01:25:40.359 --> 01:25:45.079 that just happens to be because of my professional situation that I've given my time 921 01:25:45.199 --> 01:25:53.760 to other things. So I continue to like the idea of investigating UFOs to 922 01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:57.159 get the data and see if we can have a breakthrough of some kind or 923 01:25:57.159 --> 01:26:03.680 another. But I'm sometimes hot and sometimes cold, and there was a period 924 01:26:04.000 --> 01:26:09.119 there in which I was cold because I was busy doing out the papers. 925 01:26:11.600 --> 01:26:15.319 So yeah, so is this uh? Is it exciting you to come back? 926 01:26:15.479 --> 01:26:20.119 It is? It is. I was at a move On conference just 927 01:26:20.199 --> 01:26:27.279 a few years ago and assawsable friends there, Sin is very downing and others. 928 01:26:27.680 --> 01:26:30.439 So I'm at anxious this year to do this. Yes, and even 929 01:26:30.520 --> 01:26:38.159 though many people are interested in UFOs who do not adhere to the extraterrestrial hypothesis. 930 01:26:38.800 --> 01:26:45.840 I do think that the et hypothesis is what spark's most interest, and 931 01:26:46.239 --> 01:26:50.079 I am hoping that people will find interesting what it is that I'll have to 932 01:26:50.159 --> 01:26:56.000 say, I think so. I mean, I was very excited to see 933 01:26:56.039 --> 01:27:00.359 your name on the list, and very excited when they sent me, uh 934 01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:04.319 some contact information to have you on the show, and uh, I was 935 01:27:04.359 --> 01:27:09.359 excited to be able to talk to you. And this interview has turned out 936 01:27:09.439 --> 01:27:18.119 to surpassed my expectations. It's been fatialing and fun and wonderful. So I 937 01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:25.800 think, Alie Handro, this is the topic which continues to fascinate me as 938 01:27:25.880 --> 01:27:31.399 well as you and so many So the more discussion the better. Yeah. 939 01:27:31.520 --> 01:27:34.319 So, I think that people who go to your your talk there at the 940 01:27:34.880 --> 01:27:38.920 symposium are going to have a good time too. And luckily it's not too 941 01:27:38.960 --> 01:27:44.039 far for you to travel. Yes, that's right. I'm the California and 942 01:27:44.520 --> 01:27:53.680 uh I'll be actually going to fly after run out to another meeting afterward, 943 01:27:53.800 --> 01:27:58.680 but I'm looking forward to be there. I've got some new copies of my 944 01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:06.720 book Full Chariots question Mark have created ut make those available and hopefully people will 945 01:28:06.880 --> 01:28:12.079 want to engage in the kind of conversation that you and I have just had 946 01:28:13.079 --> 01:28:15.359 and see if it takes us anywhere. Where can they get your book? 947 01:28:15.399 --> 01:28:23.760 You oppose Gods and Amazon shortly, okay, so that would be the easiest 948 01:28:23.800 --> 01:28:29.119 place to track it down. Does it Is it essentially about the chariots? 949 01:28:30.479 --> 01:28:33.880 Is it essentially about the topics we've just discussed. Yeah, I wrote it 950 01:28:34.079 --> 01:28:42.479 long before the survey, but it deals with this secularization of religious impulses. 951 01:28:42.920 --> 01:28:48.119 And I look at a large number of cases in which this is administrated the 952 01:28:48.239 --> 01:28:59.319 extraterrestrial myth or the eti myth at work, where people are feeling heavy religious 953 01:28:59.399 --> 01:29:05.960 feelings trying to express them what appears to be scientific you're naturalistic language. And 954 01:29:06.039 --> 01:29:12.039 I look at a number of cases and analyze them with that in mind. 955 01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:17.640 Right, and just to repeat it so people know, UFO's God's Chariots question 956 01:29:17.800 --> 01:29:24.000 mark and then the subtitle is Flying Saucers and Politics, Science and Religion. 957 01:29:24.880 --> 01:29:31.000 Yes, that's what sounds very interesting, So I look forward to that. 958 01:29:31.560 --> 01:29:33.960 All right. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, 959 01:29:34.479 --> 01:29:39.600 and hopefully we'll have you again sometime and I definitely look forward to meeting you 960 01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:45.119 in California. Okay, Alijandro, thanks so much for your time. All 961 01:29:45.239 --> 01:29:49.319 right, you can go and download his survey, which I suggest people do 962 01:29:49.479 --> 01:29:55.600 and read all the details. Very interesting. You just google Peter's ETI Survey 963 01:29:55.800 --> 01:30:00.159 or Peter's ETI Religious Crisis Survey. The title is pretty interes stink that is. 964 01:30:00.279 --> 01:30:03.159 Oh, thank you so much for listening to Open Minds Radio, and 965 01:30:03.359 --> 01:30:09.079 don't forget to visit openminds dot tv for more UFO news. Talk to you 966 01:30:09.199 --> 01:30:09.680 next week.