1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,160 This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light. These days, everything 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,679 is go, go go. It's NonStop hustle all the time. Work, 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,679 friends, family expect you to be on twenty four to seven. Well, 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,800 sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,160 Coors Light is cold loggered, cold filtered, and cold package. It's 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,320 as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. It is literally made to chill. 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,480 Coors Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So 8 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:31,519 when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,640 Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with drizzly 10 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:41,719 or INSTATCRT Celebrate Responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Hey there, 11 00:00:41,759 --> 00:00:45,240 my name is Ricky Smith and I'm the founder of Random Acts of Kindness Everywhere, 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,159 a nonprofit that simply does exactly what it says, promote kindness everywhere. 13 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,719 We know the world's crazy right now. If you are searching for a podcast 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,759 that has a deeper conversation about race, my co host Angel Gray and I 15 00:00:58,039 --> 00:01:02,640 will be discussing everything going on right now on our podcast Random XA podcast on 16 00:01:02,759 --> 00:01:06,319 Blue Wire Podcast Network. To find out more, go to rack now dot 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:22,959 org. Enjoy the show. Hey, Hi, Hello, Hardwood Knox listeners. 18 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,400 I am Dan Favalley coming at you with Adam Frammel. He is an 19 00:01:27,519 --> 00:01:32,959 editor for Bleacher Report. He's also the founder and editor in chief of NBA 20 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,560 Math. Follow him on Twitter at FRAML zero nine f r O m A 21 00:01:37,879 --> 00:01:42,560 L zero nine. Follow Nbamath on Twitter at NBA Underscore Math. We are 22 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,959 back to our decade ranking series. We're up to the Los Angeles Clippers. 23 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,560 If you missed it, which there's a fair chance that you did, there's 24 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:55,280 been a lot going on with the coronavirus pandemic, George Floyd being killed at 25 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,519 the hands of Minneapolis police. We did publish it, but we didn't feel 26 00:01:59,519 --> 00:02:01,599 like it was apriate to promote it, just because I think it did go 27 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,920 live on the day that George Floyd was killed. So please, if you 28 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,960 feel like it, check it out. If Basketball Only Podcast isn't what you're 29 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:14,520 looking for right now, we totally understand. As Thor, my puppy goes 30 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,479 bonkers in the background, I guess he's gonna have to become a co host 31 00:02:16,479 --> 00:02:21,479 of this at some point. But we are going to try and be a 32 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,120 little bit of distraction for people that are looking for that, and we are 33 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,439 going to move on to the clippers here. The only housekeeping note that I 34 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:30,919 have at the moment is please rate, review, and subscribe to us. 35 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,639 Wherever else you get your podcasts, we are going to have those promo links 36 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,199 attached to the individual podcast link. I have now found something where it's going 37 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:43,599 to take you to all the locations in which you can get our podcast. 38 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,879 It'll be on that same page. If it's Spotify, click Spotify, link, 39 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:52,080 iTunes, Stitcher directly to the RSS feed. So please rate, review, 40 00:02:52,159 --> 00:02:55,080 subscribe to us whatever your podcast medium allows. We really appreciate it, 41 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:00,680 and make sure you're downloading every episode as well as voting us the tweets that 42 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:05,599 we throw out there. Just telling a friend, family member, acquaintance about 43 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,879 us, they will not regret it if they listen to this podcast. Last, 44 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:14,199 but certainly not least shout out to our sponsor. As always bet Online, 45 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,479 you'll be hearing from them in just a few moments. With all that 46 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:22,599 now said, Adam, how are you doing. I'm just impressed right now, 47 00:03:22,599 --> 00:03:24,039 Like that's a pretty long spiel for you. To get through with with 48 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:29,280 no notes and no slip ups or anything except for the fact that my puppy 49 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,400 is going bonkers in the back. That's not a slip up. That's just 50 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:37,960 it lends authenticity to the podcast, like it's it's in this real world environment. 51 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,960 We're not just sitting in a studio or something. Yes, and puppies 52 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,680 are unpredictable, but you have both puppies and children, so you know that 53 00:03:45,719 --> 00:03:50,039 better than anybody. One of the puppies is currently laying on my feet and 54 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,080 I'm just hoping that there's no barking from her. I'm going my puppies, 55 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:59,080 aren't I feel weird saying my puppies Thor and Wade their names. They're not 56 00:03:59,159 --> 00:04:01,240 barkers, but like they need to be. I'm about to have to pick 57 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,840 this one up and put him on my lap and hope that he doesn't go 58 00:04:04,439 --> 00:04:11,319 crazy. However, we are here to talk about the ten top ten clippers 59 00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:15,000 of this past decade, as determined by you, me and also you blay 60 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,720 O listeners. If you voted, please remember if thout those forms that are 61 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,959 being tweeted out at NBA Math, NBA Underscore Math, the Lakers will be 62 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,079 next just throwing it out there to the Lakers fans that we have listening. 63 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,920 This was a fun one and if you want to get right into it, 64 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,879 can you take us through how the rankings turned out with number ten. I'm 65 00:04:31,879 --> 00:04:38,079 actually gonna hold off on going with number ten because I wanted to talk about 66 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,959 the Clippers overall level of success throughout the last decade, because I think they're 67 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,319 so often viewed as like this laughing stock franchise or the Little Brother in La 68 00:04:46,399 --> 00:04:48,079 and that hasn't been the case over the last decade. I mean, They've 69 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,800 only missed the playoffs twice in the last ten years. And so I wanted 70 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,800 to start this one off with our once per episode trivia question for you, 71 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,360 and I think I think this is a little bit of an easier one than 72 00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:03,079 some of the ones we've had. But can you name the five teams with 73 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:09,839 the most wins dating back to the twenty ten eleven season. Okay, I'm 74 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:15,160 gonna say the Mavericks. The Mavericks are not damn all right, all right, 75 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:17,680 We're off to good. The Spurs gotta be up there. Spurs are 76 00:05:17,759 --> 00:05:21,720 number one. Okay, I'm going to assume that the Clippers are on there. 77 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:30,800 Clippers are fifth, Miami. Miami is sixth. Dallas was fifteenth. 78 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,920 By the way, Yeah, I think I'm just I'm probably assuming over the 79 00:05:33,959 --> 00:05:36,800 past twenty years. They've actually had some bad seasons over the past decades. 80 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,360 I don't know why I named them. Who do I have? I got 81 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,040 the Spurs and the Clippers are The Lakers can't be on there, right they 82 00:05:45,079 --> 00:05:46,839 had too many down years towards the end. Yeah, they're down at eighteen. 83 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:50,879 They're but they're below the Hawks. I'm gonna say Golden State just because 84 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:57,360 they had a few monster seasons. They're third. Houston. Houston is fourth. 85 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,920 I'm not gonna get this fifth one running through all the teams in my 86 00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:02,560 head right now. So the next team, I say that has to be 87 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:08,000 my last guest by default, or actually I feel like I might have to 88 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,680 Boston. Nope, Indiana. Boston is seventh, Indiana is ninth, and 89 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,759 Oklahoma City is second. Wow. Yeah, I mean if you think about 90 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,839 it like just that, that spans the Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James 91 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:26,560 Harden years and then they haven't been bad. No, I think what gets 92 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,839 me turned around? If so, you you trade James Harden in twenty and 93 00:06:29,879 --> 00:06:31,720 twelve, and they looked they were still really good afterwards, but like you're 94 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:36,360 thinking about all the sort of different iterations and revolutions that they've had over the 95 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,959 past decade. Now, they were the ones that slip my mind. I 96 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,160 probably wouldn't even have gone to them after the last two teams that they named. 97 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,560 I was trying to be too trendy by naming the Pacers just because they're 98 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,839 like this bastion of consistency, but I respect it. Are you now willing 99 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:57,480 to take us to the numbers? That was one of your kinder trivia questions. 100 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,800 I don't feel bad for missing it, but it was also like not 101 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,560 super hard. I know you've been working alive and a little tired right now, 102 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,600 so I was I was trying to take it easy on you to some 103 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:11,360 extent. Would you've got it live? Absolutely? Without question? That's a 104 00:07:11,439 --> 00:07:14,120 no. I mean I was looking at the list, so I definitely would 105 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,040 have. I meant, if I was if the roles were reversed, would 106 00:07:16,079 --> 00:07:17,920 there have been a team that you missed? I think it would have been 107 00:07:17,959 --> 00:07:21,120 okay? See as well, No, I think I would have gotten okay. 108 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,560 See, I don't think that I would have gotten. I'm not sure 109 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:30,120 I would have gotten in Houston because I think I forget how long Harden has 110 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,600 been there sometimes fair enough, but anyway, this is about the Clippers who 111 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:41,319 were fifth and wins over the last decade, and there was a lot of 112 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,319 a lot of interesting votes throughout this one. It seemed like there were essentially 113 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:50,639 thirteen candidates for the top ten spots, so we actually had a three way 114 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:55,480 tie for eleventh place between Paul George, Matt Barnes, and Tobias Harris. 115 00:07:56,079 --> 00:07:59,279 Both you and I had Tobias Harris on there. I was the only one 116 00:07:59,279 --> 00:08:01,639 with Matt Barnes. The fans were the only one with Paul George. I 117 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:07,959 see an argument for all three of those, but it it felt like there 118 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,000 was a seven player tier where they were going to be guaranteed inclusions and then 119 00:08:11,319 --> 00:08:16,279 who the hell knew after that. Paul George was tough for me, just 120 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,319 because he's missed so much of this year. And I know it's not like 121 00:08:20,399 --> 00:08:24,680 Kwaine Leonard has played in so many more games than Paul George, but I 122 00:08:24,759 --> 00:08:28,240 was a little bit. I kind of expected him to be right around there, 123 00:08:28,279 --> 00:08:33,399 but he wasn't like Kwai Leonard is who I struggled like to place, 124 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,840 even though he's only played nine more games than Paul George, so that was 125 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:39,320 that might be the only qualm is like it's their first season. But also 126 00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:43,559 Paul George is really ridiculously good, and I think him going to the Clippers 127 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,919 were forcing his way to the Clippers at all, just like Kawai signing with 128 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,639 the Clippers, right, that has to be part of it too, just 129 00:08:48,639 --> 00:08:52,559 because it says something about the Clippers themselves. Agreed. We did have Danilo 130 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:58,120 Gallinari, who was our tenth place finisher. He did not appear on the 131 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,039 fans ballot. He did not appear in my top ten top ten, though 132 00:09:01,039 --> 00:09:05,600 I did give serious thought to including him. He was up at eighth for 133 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:07,960 you. And as is the case with all the players in this range, 134 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,679 like I get it, I get all of those different placements. Gallow only 135 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,000 played eighty nine games in LA just during the twenty seventeen eighteen season where he 136 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,440 was mostly injured and then the twenty eighteen nineteen season where he was phenomenal and 137 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:26,399 just kind of like blossomed into that devastating offensive weapon that he's become later in 138 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,879 his career. Was there any consideration to not having him there just because of 139 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:35,840 the lack of bairness that he's had. We'll get to that term early in 140 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:39,440 this episode. Yeah, there was. It's for both he and Tobias Harris. 141 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,200 For me, I had spoiler Dewis Harris was ten, gallow was nine. 142 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,360 For me, it was were you going to pull one of them for 143 00:09:46,159 --> 00:09:48,759 a KWHI Leonard or Paul George. I did think about Matt Barnes briefly as 144 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,799 well, but Gallows two eighteen, two thosand nineteen season did it for me. 145 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:56,080 Debias Harris was the one who was generating all the hype. It felt 146 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,399 like there before he was traded, but it was Gallo who was their best 147 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:03,080 player up until that point for me, and even felt like, you know, 148 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,120 Mantras, Harrold and Lou Williams were getting a little bit more shy than 149 00:10:05,159 --> 00:10:09,159 he did. I said this on the Nuggets podcast with him, and I'll 150 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,639 say it again. He really just blurs the line between fringe star and then 151 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,279 this compliment because he can be so good at shooting off the catch and his 152 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,440 offense is very plugin player, but he can also really get you buckets from 153 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,759 these Square one opportunities where he puts his head down, gets into the lane, 154 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,960 he can hit these difficult fadeaways. He draws a ton of fouls, 155 00:10:30,159 --> 00:10:33,559 and so he's been one of the more for his entire career understated offensive hubs. 156 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,039 And I won't say that he would have been an All Star had he 157 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,799 been healthier throughout his career, but I think he would be more fondly or 158 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,320 commonly recognized if he didn't deal with so many injuries. You know, some 159 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,080 with the Clippers, but also a lot with the Nuggets and even a little 160 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:54,159 bit with the Knicks as well. It feels like he's moving into that territory 161 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,120 where we talk about him as one of the all time best players who hasn't 162 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:01,360 made an All Star team. Right, He's not one of the first names 163 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:05,399 that comes to mind there. I think Mike Conley probably is, But like 164 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,200 he's getting there just what he's been able to do as he moves into his 165 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,799 thirties on the offensive end, and I don't think we should just totally overlook 166 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,000 the defensive ability that he brings to mostly through the versatility and the plug in 167 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,960 plainists like he I think earlier in his career, those New York days. 168 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,279 In those early Denver days, before his ACL injury, he was a pretty 169 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,679 underrated defender with some shutdown on ball abilities. He knew what he was doing 170 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,919 off the ball. But now it seems like he has the size to body 171 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,639 up against some bigger front court players, and he has the lateral quickness to 172 00:11:37,639 --> 00:11:39,120 match up on the perimeter. He's not a great defender, but he's not 173 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:45,559 like this glaring liability that you might expect from a guy who's largely an offensive 174 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,360 weapon. No, and I think, look, he's not when you look 175 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:50,960 at his size, because he's a true six ten. They've adjusted the heights 176 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,360 and they still list him at six ten. He's not this overwhelming rebounder. 177 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,879 But for his position, now, you know, if you're going to have 178 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,759 someone who can get you a seventeen eighteen defensive rebounding rate, that's fine. 179 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,039 And I totally agree with you. For earlier in his career he could he 180 00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:07,799 could guard two zen threes, you know, but really, before, like 181 00:12:07,799 --> 00:12:09,480 you said that, that ACL injury and so never just a good defender, 182 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,480 which is one of those guys where it's he certainly not could almost be comparable 183 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:18,399 to the way Bollyon Vogdanovitch was in Indiana because Indiana just turns wing and wings 184 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:22,000 into too defensive gold. This might be the second consecutive podcast in which I've 185 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,000 actually mentioned that, but that's neither here nor there. What I'm actually interested 186 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:31,159 to see is whether he has an opportunity to make a third team's top ten 187 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,799 cut because he's gonna have just the one season in Oklahoma City. But he's 188 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,559 been so good, and I know Oklahoma City has been also been really good, 189 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,320 but it's not like they have like after their tippy top talent. I 190 00:12:41,399 --> 00:12:45,399 feel like there's this wide open field and so they do have a few, 191 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,200 I would say more than a few really big names, because you have Abaka. 192 00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:52,120 Harden's probably gonna make it there, Kevin Urrett, Russell Westbrook, Paul 193 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,600 George. But like things can be a little bit open for Perkins. You 194 00:12:54,639 --> 00:13:00,399 know, Steven Adams, but that's actually really Kendrick Perkins taught Oklahoma City out 195 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:05,440 of win. Ever, forget that, apparently so attention to hardwin Knox listeners. 196 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,240 There is no shortage of action going on in our exclusive partners. 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But anyway, I wanted to move on from from tenth, who 206 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,120 was, you know, sort of an underrated defender, to another mediocre average 207 00:13:54,120 --> 00:14:01,279 defender, and that's Kawhi Leonard. We actually both did not have him in 208 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,720 our top ten, which I think is purely a function of the lack of 209 00:14:03,759 --> 00:14:07,919 minutes and lack of games played only fifty one. The fans did have him 210 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,080 all the way up at fifth, and as an interesting housekeeping note, I 211 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,120 think he's the first player, and this is our thirteenth one of these, 212 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,480 I believe that he's the first player who has appeared in every single spot on 213 00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:26,159 the ballot, getting everything from a first place vote to an unranked vote, 214 00:14:26,679 --> 00:14:31,000 which is interesting and I think fitting for a guy who has been phenomenal and 215 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:39,679 has continued to grow into a primary facilitator into this go to scorer who can 216 00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:43,120 light it up from every level but has only played those fifty one games. 217 00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:46,440 Between injuries and load management. He was one of the toughest players to rank 218 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,159 in any of these. He will be someone who makes three different top tens 219 00:14:50,279 --> 00:14:54,440 because he's going on Toronto and San Antonio. So look, Kawi Leonard is 220 00:14:54,759 --> 00:15:00,279 just amazing. And you know, aside from I know that it's come like 221 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,600 a Yannis attempt to Kombo versus Lebron James debate for the best player in the 222 00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:07,080 league, He's still there, and I'm not I'm going to be more conservative 223 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,200 when it comes to picking someone over yannest than than I think a lot of 224 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:16,519 other people would. But I think there's probably still a case. Lebron James 225 00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:18,960 has been so good this year, I would probably have Kai Landers the third 226 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,840 best player in the league. But he's right there, Like it's just the 227 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,919 gap between him and Lebron if there is one anymore, even the gap between 228 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,600 his and honest, it's it's right there. And what he's been really been 229 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:33,799 able to do on offense has been transformative because we've been I don't know if 230 00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:35,279 I want to say we've been waiting on pins and needles, but sort of 231 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,919 the next or the last front tier for him was can he be this primary 232 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:45,159 playmaker type. I'm not talking James Harden level, but but Kevin Durant level, 233 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,879 like or a little bit above that. And this year he's done that 234 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,159 day at the beginning of the year, when Paul George was out, when 235 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:52,879 they were dealing with some other injuries, he was just running pick and roll 236 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,039 after pick and roll, dishing a ton of assists and he still had a 237 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,919 career high five point six for thirty six minutes four his career and the offense 238 00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:04,120 just you know, if you had any doubt that he could be this offensive 239 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,919 hub on his own, it's gone now. I mean it should have been 240 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,200 eradicated before he left San Antonio and then definitely with Toronto. But the Clippers 241 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,559 are annihilating opponents. I think when I was writing about this a few weeks 242 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,639 ago, their offensive rating is close to one seventeen. When Leonard plays without 243 00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:25,240 Paul George, n Lou Williams and so driving an entire offense as the primary 244 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,360 facilitator was Leonard's final frontier and now he's conquered it. It's just it's amazing 245 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:33,960 and looking at this year specifically because that's really the only one that matters as 246 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:40,000 it pertains to the Clippers. I know he's a little bit more selective in 247 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,639 how he uses his defensive motor, but it felt like sort of after that 248 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,039 game they lost to the Celtics and overtime I think where Jason Tatum out played 249 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,879 him a little bit, Kawhi Leonard just decided that he was going to go 250 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:56,519 all out, just go ham on defense and watching him defend it should count 251 00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:00,039 as a form of cardio because it's that exhausting. Well, that's good news 252 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:07,279 for my exercise habits. I just put in ninety minutes of watching by Leonard 253 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:11,839 today. I'm exhausted on calories. I burned. But that's perfect. I 254 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,160 think the only part of that that I want to push back on is that 255 00:17:14,759 --> 00:17:19,480 it is close between the Jannis Lebron tier and Kauai. I think it depends 256 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,480 on how you frame the conversation, like if we're talking about who you want 257 00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:27,119 to have for one game or one playoff series. I think that's fair if 258 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,279 we're talking about who you want to have over the course of the season, 259 00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:34,160 Like availability is a skill. Sure there's some bad luck involved in injuries, 260 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,920 but like I do think that if you frame the debate that way, that 261 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,640 he is still a tier below and that there is a fairly sizeable gap, 262 00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:45,480 just because if you look at his history, I mean, we have a 263 00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:49,640 nine game season in twenty seventeen eighteen and sixty games the next year and fifty 264 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:55,960 one this current season, and part of that is by design, but that 265 00:17:56,039 --> 00:18:00,599 design has been necessary, and we saw it last year during Roo's run to 266 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,640 a championship, Like he still was limping at times, and even with that 267 00:18:03,759 --> 00:18:08,279 extreme load management strategy, it almost didn't work. Like I know, they 268 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:11,519 won the title, but he was still hobbled during points in that And I 269 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:17,039 do think that matters if we're talking about the best player in the world conversation. 270 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,160 That's totally fair, and it's probably why I wouldn't have him all that 271 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,240 close to Janni's attend to Kopo, because even with Lebron, while his availability 272 00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:29,160 is there, like just the possession by possession engagement this season has been incredible 273 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,799 relative to what we've seen in years past from him recently, but Jannes's attend 274 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:36,799 the Kopo takes every single possession personally. It feels like with Leonard, though, 275 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,440 I do think there's a case that if you need to win one playoff 276 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,599 game, there's not another player in the NBA you'd rather have. I'll listen 277 00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:48,440 to arguments for Lebron, I listen to them for Steph, maybe Kevin Durant 278 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,319 at his peak, you know, following his injury gets a little tough. 279 00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:56,079 Janice could potentially be there as well. So that's where his argument I think 280 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,920 receives the biggest boost. I would agree with that, and I would probably 281 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,359 put him above Jannis in that conversation because I think that Yannis is schemable to 282 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,240 some extent, as we've seen with those pack the paint defenses, where they're 283 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,200 just going to force his teammates to beat him. It's kind of like peaked 284 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,440 Dwight Howard, where like he was dominant. And I'm not trying to compare 285 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:22,279 Dwight to Jannis here, just like in terms of the scheme ability, right 286 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,079 right, I mean in terms of the unassisted dunks, but nothing beyond that. 287 00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:30,200 But we saw that in the twenty ten and twenty eleven playoffs, where 288 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:33,640 as dominant as he was, teams could make a conscious decision whether they wanted 289 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,039 to shut down the perimeter options or throw extra bodies at him. And I 290 00:19:38,279 --> 00:19:44,359 don't think that you have that same luxury with guys like with Kawai and with 291 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,599 Kevin Durant and with Lebron. You take us to the number eight spots since 292 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,480 it says we spend enough time at Quaird. Oh. Actually, the last 293 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,519 thing here. If we were to just do this at the end of the 294 00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:56,599 sea like the season, which would basically be the playoffs, there's eight regular 295 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,400 season games left, Quai, I'll probably play in one point five of those 296 00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:04,920 or something. I'm kidding, Are you also fair? But well, they 297 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,680 don't have number two lockdown, so maybe not. But at the same time, 298 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,440 they're not going to care about there's no such thing as home court advantage 299 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,799 anyway. They they're probably the one team that I believe would say they don't 300 00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:17,599 care about their matchup. We're getting too far into the weeds there, though. 301 00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:19,839 If we did record this after the playoffs, there's probably a chance, 302 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,440 depending on what happens with the Clippers this season, that he could end up 303 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:27,319 like yeah, yeah, or like four, Like there's really I think those 304 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:33,640 top five are like fairly locked down just through a title, the only ones 305 00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:37,200 you think that you have to put him behind. We're basically going to have 306 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,039 this argument when we get to Toronto. Fair enough, fair enough, all 307 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,119 right, but can you can you carry us on to number eight? Yeah, 308 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,599 so we'll go from one defensive stalwart to another with Jamal Crawford, who 309 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,920 ruthless today. He was seventh from the fans, he was eighth for me, 310 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,720 and he was ninth for you. Tough player to evaluate, especially later 311 00:20:57,759 --> 00:21:02,319 in his career, just because he basically like we don't need to talk about 312 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:07,480 his defense because it doesn't exist. And then his offensive shooting figures like they're 313 00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:12,359 usually so low that he doesn't show up well in advanced metrics, that the 314 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,720 team might be slightly worse with him off the court. But at the same 315 00:21:15,759 --> 00:21:18,440 time, like we're all giving some love to him here by having him in 316 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,559 the top ten. And I think it's largely because he fills a difficult role, 317 00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:27,920 Like I think we have to acknowledge that inefficiency is kind of part and 318 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,480 parcel with that gunner off the bench role that he's excelled in throughout his career. 319 00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:37,960 I don't think I would say that he was ever a star with the 320 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,720 Clippers in the last decade. I mean, he averaged eighteen point six points 321 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,160 per game in twenty thirteen fourteen, but even then, like it came on 322 00:21:45,279 --> 00:21:51,240 lackluster shooting numbers. So he was another one who is kind of difficult for 323 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,559 me to place. And I know I say that about so many players, 324 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:59,200 but it's because these are tough conversations. Look, there's there's the theirness, 325 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,920 which sounds so so weird to say, because he's in fourth in total minutes 326 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,240 played for the team. The other thing is he's seventh in value over replacement 327 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,799 player, and I know that's gonna be something that really favors guys who can 328 00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:14,759 score. But scoring, if anyone hasn't noticed, is a pretty important skill. 329 00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:18,599 Never been the most efficient score. But he takes so many difficult shots 330 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,480 that if you have him for a long period of time between twenty thirteen seventeen 331 00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:26,039 in this case, shooting forty five point five percent on two's and thirty five 332 00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:30,519 point four percent on threes, it's almost just a little bit more valuable than 333 00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:33,440 someone who's slightly more efficient but doesn't take as difficult shots, and to just 334 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,240 come off the bench and to be able to provide you with that from scratch 335 00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:41,680 creation, it's a fairly big deal and he had some huge games for them. 336 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,880 He's just one of those guys where it felt like an event when he 337 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,279 would catch fire. And so there's certainly when you look at the advanced metrics, 338 00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:52,759 they're not all gonna love him some of the on and off numbers as 339 00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:56,319 well. But he won whether whether or not you thought he should have, 340 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:02,440 he did win two six Men of the Year awards with the Clippers and three 341 00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:06,279 overall. Also, just a really good teammate if you talk to anyone around 342 00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:10,039 the NBA. One of the best locker room guys right And to that point, 343 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:11,079 it wasn't with the Clippers this year, that year, but he won 344 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,400 Teammate of the Year in twenty seventeen, twenty and eighteen. So I do 345 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,880 think that matters because you were dealing with When you look at those Lob City 346 00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:22,000 era Clippers teams, it felt like there was I don't want to say a 347 00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:25,640 lack of leadership or accountability, because you did have Chris Paul as a leader, 348 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,480 even if he grates on people, But there did seem like a lot 349 00:23:29,519 --> 00:23:33,559 of internal division, if not strife, and I would argue that having Jamal 350 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:38,200 Crawford there probably helped alleviate it at least a little bit, if not a 351 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,799 ton. And so I really grappled with could I put him lower? I 352 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,039 was thinking about being a little bit bold and saying, you know, if 353 00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:49,640 we're being honest, like Kauai might have had an impact higher than Jamal Crawford 354 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,119 right now. And I ended up leaving Quaie off. But what about to 355 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,160 buy as Harrison gallanari, He's right where he belongs, and if you want 356 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,079 to put him at number seven, maybe I think there's a strong case there 357 00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:04,240 and I wouldn't argue against it. Yeah, I think Jamal Crawford's current situation 358 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,799 is kind of like a good way to summarize the divide here where he doesn't 359 00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:11,839 have a job right now, even though he hasn't retired, and that's indicative 360 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:17,640 of general managers not necessarily trusting what he brings right now at this stage of 361 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,640 his career, and yet every player wants him to have a role. Yeah, 362 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,799 how many how many guys have we seen speak up about how Jamal Crawford 363 00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:29,799 should be signed at this point. And I think that's partially because you know, 364 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,759 I forget who I saw that said this the first time, and I 365 00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:37,880 wish I could give them credit for it, But I think it's it's partially 366 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,920 that he's mastered skills that are difficult to master, and that players spend a 367 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:48,160 lot of time trying to master to the point that they might supersede more important 368 00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:53,599 things that aren't necessarily worked on as much, and it creates this divide between 369 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:59,599 how people who play and people who evaluate and try to build teams are viewing 370 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,880 him. Yeah, I think that's a that's a great point. And look, 371 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,400 I don't know that you could say he would significantly help a team, 372 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,599 but the aesthetics of his game are ageless, Like you just looked at the 373 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,599 way he moves. It just has a ton of dribbling skills, the four 374 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,920 point plays. And if anyone listening does remember, I want to say it 375 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,799 might have been Chris Towers from CBS Sports maybe who who talked about like the 376 00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:29,079 mastery of a difficult skill. If anyone does know whose theory that was, 377 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,920 let us know so we can give them credit for that. I would say 378 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,519 the one thing that might hurt him with regard to maybe his ranking with the 379 00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:40,519 Clippers. But why's not in the NBA right now is what he does where 380 00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:42,920 we've kind of seen it with how Lou Williams and like the stuff that he 381 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,319 pulls when he's trying to draw fouts doesn't translate to the playoffs. Crawford's type 382 00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:51,480 of shot selection, it just hasn't really fared well in the playoffs. His 383 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:55,279 efficient, his efficiency has traditionally fallen off a cliff. Maybe I'm thinking too 384 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,640 much into that, but that's certainly that's a great point, like that could 385 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,440 that certainly holds him back here for me, and maybe that's why he's not 386 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,599 in the NBA right now. But look, if you're going to give me 387 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,160 someone in there, you know he's with Phoenix last year, age thirty eight, 388 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,640 doesn't become a problem. Like he's probably a centralizing force within that locker 389 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,000 room and you can count on him. I don't care how much they milked, 390 00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:15,880 I don't care how meeting this the game was. But he can just 391 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,200 go out there and score like eighty points if you wanted him to. That's 392 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,279 just that's an accomplishment. Not again, not relev not relevant, necessarily to 393 00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:26,400 this discussion, although that kind of encapsulates what he was to the Clippers is 394 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:32,680 just like he never he was never necessarily better than you expected him to be, 395 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,640 but he was never less than what you were looking for. Right. 396 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,799 But we I believe there is no number seven, or there is no number 397 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,000 seven. The number seven. Yeah, we do have a tie number six. 398 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:48,480 It's a very fitting tie because I think these players are so heavily associated 399 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,079 with one another, and it's Montrese, Harold, and Patrick Beverly. So 400 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,640 Beverly came in at sixth place for both you and I. The fans had 401 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,000 him down at number ten, and then the fans had had Harold at eight, 402 00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:02,279 and both of us had him at number seven. That surprised me. 403 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:07,720 I really thought that the way Beverly plays, the grittiness, the intensity, 404 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:14,519 the desire to milk every ounce of basketball talent on every single possession, the 405 00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:21,359 willingness to frustrate and upset opponents see Westbrook Russell, would have put him higher 406 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,880 in the fan vote. I thought he was for sure one of those players 407 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,680 where if you have been rooting for him, you would definitely have him higher 408 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:33,920 than the non Clippers fans who are currently talking so where would you have put 409 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,920 him? Oh, I mean I think we had him in the right spot 410 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,119 at sixth. Okay, I'm just I'm surprised that we had him higher than 411 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:47,200 the fans did. Oh and also that he was below Harold in the fan 412 00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:51,200 vote. I mean, like, I guess Harold is another like hustle guy 413 00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:55,160 who is always playing hard and is going to endear himself to fan bases. 414 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,359 But that's like, that's Beverly's thing. If there's anything that people want to 415 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,200 light me up for, probably gonna be my takes on Montrez Harold. But 416 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,640 yeah, with Beverly, I was I kind of consider putting him higher. 417 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,960 Just the sample size wasn't large enough to be like, hey, let's let's 418 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:17,400 put him above Lou Williams, or let's put him above JJ Reddick would have 419 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,160 been the name that I gravitated toward the most. And Lou Williams is just 420 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,160 such a huge part of what the Clippers have done offensively since he's arrived there. 421 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,759 But with Beverly, like he is, the fact that he's made a 422 00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:36,839 living playing a ball dominant position by being anything but is absolutely incredible to me. 423 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,519 You can still trust him to run some pick and roll, but you'll 424 00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:41,039 probably wish that maybe turn the ball over a little bit less. Could he 425 00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:45,559 do a little bit more off the dribble, but he pulls out like some 426 00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:48,599 floaters every now and again. But the fact that he's willing to just remain 427 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,000 off the ball, hit a bunch of catch and shoot threes and then just 428 00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:56,599 really exhaust himself on defense, and there are look some of part of his 429 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:02,599 reputation might be more myth than fact. I would say that guys like Mark 430 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,559 is Smart would be a good example here are just definitively better on defense than 431 00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:10,559 Patrick Beverly is, particularly now. But he is someone that you can say, 432 00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:14,119 hey, go guard Kevin Durant, and it's not necessarily gonna work, 433 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,880 but it's gonna look like maybe it's working a little bit, just because he 434 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,480 defends so exhaustively. And so to have this guy who's essentially three and D 435 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,279 at the point guard position, who on any given night can make it so 436 00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:32,839 that your point guard defense isn't pointless, which is how many view point guard 437 00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:34,720 defense. It's looking at how many talented players are at that position. You're 438 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,640 gonna get, you know, twenty points and six assists, like you're giving 439 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,039 that up right off the bat to a lot of these guys, and that's 440 00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:44,599 just absolutely huge, And so yeah, I definitely agree with you that it 441 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,400 is a little bit surprising, if not really surprising, that we were higher 442 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,319 on him than the fans actually were. But that just might say more about 443 00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,559 how much Clippers fans valued one immediacy. Also Kawhi Leonard a little bit obviously 444 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,799 so, but Patrick Beverly's just there are a handful of non stars that I 445 00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:04,880 think every team, all thirty teams would love to have on their roster, 446 00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:08,599 and he, for me, is one of them. Yeah, And as 447 00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:12,920 Ramontrez, he was a difficult one to evaluate, if only because of his 448 00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:17,480 role and because of how the Clippers have maximized him within that role. He 449 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,680 doesn't play against starters. He plays against second units and he destroys them. 450 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:29,000 And it's difficult to know how that would translate to playing against the best front 451 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:33,079 court defenders and trying to defend the best front court scorers. But I think 452 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,440 there's a case to be made that he's been as good within his role as 453 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,799 anybody over the last two years. I mean, if you minimum fifty games 454 00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:48,000 played, he's twenty seventh in points per thirty six minutes over the last two 455 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,599 seasons combined. That puts him just ahead of Danilo Gallinari. It puts him 456 00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:55,759 ahead of Nikolai Yokich and Chris Middleton and Clay Thompson and Brandon Ingram and Demardurozen 457 00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:59,839 and CJ McCollum. Like, he's been really effective, and he's done all 458 00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:03,079 that while shooting almost sixty percent from the field. Granted, because all of 459 00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,319 his shots are right around the basket, but it's also a skill to be 460 00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:10,799 able to generate those looks and capitalize on them so efficiently. I'll go ahead, 461 00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:12,799 sorry, no, no, feel free to cut me off there. 462 00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:15,839 I was just gonna say, and I don't know where I was going, 463 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:19,799 So I think you hit it right on the head. Is so that he's 464 00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:23,640 been as good as anyone within his role, and even scoring wise, he 465 00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:27,640 does more on offense than you actually think, Like this isn't just someone who's 466 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,640 feasting off of pick and rolls like the Clippers have posted him up. He 467 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,160 can actually attack. He has a little bit of a floor game, and 468 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,279 he doesn't have really range away from the rim. But to be able to 469 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:41,480 get to the rim with the blond your hands. That's another skill that's valued. 470 00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:45,119 And then this season, specifically, Janis and Yoki are the only other 471 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,200 players averaging more than eighteen points per game while shooting better than fifty nine percent 472 00:31:49,319 --> 00:31:53,759 on twos. Now, Harold's scoring opportunities are more elementary than theirs, but 473 00:31:53,920 --> 00:32:00,000 that's still pretty darn impressive. And I figures you already mentioned there's an endless 474 00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:02,400 hustle to his game where he's not going to out talent a lot of people, 475 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,599 but he's going out work pretty much. It's contagious. It's like he's 476 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,480 he seems like one of those players where his hustle bleeds into everyone else. 477 00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:19,200 But it feels like there's a notable, visible uptick in hustle with everyone who's 478 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,119 on the floor around him. And the fact that his output has held per 479 00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:27,759 minute as his role is increased is indicative of not only how good he is, 480 00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:30,519 but just also how much energy he's willing to put into every single second 481 00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:35,960 that he's on the court. Now he knows one gear, it's lightspeed. 482 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,359 Here's what I question about Harold's value is how indispensable is he actually to the 483 00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:46,440 Clippers? And the bigger question to me would be is he someone who can 484 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,759 translate well to another team. And I'm only asking this because he's a free 485 00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:52,799 agent this summer, and I'm gonna say, we're gonna get some answers to 486 00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:57,240 this pretty soon, right And I don't know, maybe he doesn't leave the 487 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,480 Clippers, but it'll still be indicative in the offers that are rumored to be 488 00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:02,880 received from other teams. And I just I don't know, like he does 489 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,720 still need and probably an elite to semi elite playmaker around him to really capitalize 490 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,960 on his offense. And there just aren't going to be as many teams that 491 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,039 can say, hey, we're gonna throw this six foot seven inch guy at 492 00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:15,920 center and that they're gonna be able to make it work because he's not this 493 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,039 you know, he could be okay around the rim, but he's not your 494 00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:24,160 primary backline defender guy. He's not going to rampage on the glass, and 495 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,920 so that that's a limitation. But you also really can't give him minutes at 496 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,039 the four anymore because he doesn't have that range. You would need like the 497 00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:35,960 perfect five around him, like a Marcus Morris Harol scenario where Harold still going 498 00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:38,160 to be the center in that situation because he's the guy that's not playing on 499 00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:42,920 the perimeter, and so that's just what I'm curious about. It doesn't hold 500 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,680 him back here, because again, he's done so much for the Clippers, 501 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,640 but it's always something I've wondered about him, and I do think to some 502 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:52,240 extent maybe that's, you know, tainted my view of him. I feel 503 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,960 like taint is too cruel of a word, but it just made me as 504 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,960 he is, he exused, this endless hustle. I am endlessly curious about 505 00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:04,519 what his actual value is relative to the rest of the league outside this Clippers 506 00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:09,239 bubble. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I almost don't want to 507 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,079 find out because I so enjoy him in this role and I hope it's something 508 00:34:14,119 --> 00:34:16,440 he gets to continue doing rather than trying to stretch himself too much, and 509 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,400 maybe we start to see some of those cracks shine through a bit more prominently. 510 00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:24,000 He's just one of those guys who's so fun to watch and so easy 511 00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:29,960 to root for that I almost don't want that to happen, and I want 512 00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:31,000 it. If he wants that, then go for it. Yeah, And 513 00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:36,239 look, the Knicks have cap space and love bigs Charlotte could use him out 514 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:37,039 on the front line. Maybe those are the teams if he gets paid, 515 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:39,239 good for him. And I love watching him. He's another guy where it 516 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,760 feels like I just ran a marathon because I watched him play basketball, which 517 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,000 doesn't say much about me, obviously, but I enjoyed watching him. It's 518 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,960 just that's just a question that springs to mind. Maybe this isn't the form 519 00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:52,039 for it, but I needed to voice it in some way. Oh, 520 00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,000 I get it. I'm just I'm looking forward to the next time I get 521 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,239 to be asked like, oh, did you exercise today? Yeah, I 522 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,400 watched the Clippers, Patrick's, Beverly and Harold on the court at the same 523 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:07,519 time. My heart barely took it. We have a number five. We 524 00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:10,599 do have a bit of a tear jump up to what was basically the clear 525 00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:15,159 cut top five, and checking in at fifth was JJ Reddick. He was 526 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,639 sixth, just below Kawhi Leonard from the fan vote, but you and I 527 00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:22,880 both had him at fifth. We're unanimous from this point forward. I think 528 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,239 it's the exact right place for him. Never a star, always an immensely 529 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,840 valuable role player, just one of the best off ball shooting threats we've ever 530 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,480 seen and I don't think it's a fluke that this might be the first year 531 00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:38,639 of his career hasn't made the playoffs. You know, he Yes, he's 532 00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:42,280 always been on good teams. Yes he's been surrounded by stars, but he 533 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,679 also really aids the winning cause just with all of the little things that he 534 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:52,199 does. I mean, I don't think that his ability to facilitate in a 535 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,039 pinch gets the credit that it deserves. I don't think that. I don't 536 00:35:55,039 --> 00:35:59,440 think that his ability to take a couple dribbles and shoot a jumper gets the 537 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,000 credit that it deserves. He's been more than that catch and shoot guy, 538 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,760 and he's been more than that for a while. And that really started to 539 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:12,320 become clear in Los Angeles. Maybe it's because he left before. Maybe it's 540 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,840 because he left when Chris Paul didn't, you know, Blake Griffin and DJ 541 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:15,920 were still with the Clippers. Or maybe it's because he's now he's on his 542 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,719 second team since then, but it feels like forever ago that he was actually 543 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,360 on the Clippers. And I don't want to use what he did with the 544 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:28,000 Sixers as a basis for rating him, but I think what he did as 545 00:36:28,039 --> 00:36:31,159 a facilitator and as even someone who was hitting pull up threes as opposed to 546 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:37,320 just more spot up opportunities or looks off motion, it proves that what he 547 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,840 didn't with the Clippers was that much more valuable because he was doing those things 548 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,559 just in smaller doses, which is arguably harder because you're out of rhythm a 549 00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:50,760 little bit more. And so one of the most valuable offensive non stars in 550 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,159 the league, especially during his without question with the Clippers, shot forty four 551 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:59,119 percent on a ton on a ton of threes. Average five point eight per 552 00:36:59,199 --> 00:37:02,199 game with the Clipper is comfortably over seven p thirty six minutes. I believe 553 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,559 a note like and the fact that he could still do that didn't play as 554 00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:10,159 much this year, but like, he wasn't exactly young during his time with 555 00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:13,679 the Clippers either, and so that you could always count on him for these 556 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,360 astronomical offensive numbers. I do wonder, now this is maybe this is an 557 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,320 unfair question. If you had given JJ Reddick some more of the responsibility that 558 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:29,360 was bestowed upon Jamal Crawford offensively, are the Clippers better off at all during 559 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,119 this time? I don't think so. I think that he filled the exact 560 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,920 right role and it's one of the I think we see that in the on 561 00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:43,079 off numbers over those four plus seasons eleven point five points per one hundred possessions 562 00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:45,840 better with Reddick on the court. And granted a lot of that is because 563 00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:51,320 that time largely overlapped with Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, and DeAndre Jordan, 564 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:57,119 but without him drawing defensive attention away. Because talk about gravitational pull from a 565 00:37:57,159 --> 00:38:00,480 non star, that number isn't going to be as high. I mean, 566 00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:05,320 he made life so much easier for everyone else with his with his presence, 567 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,119 I don't think if you start giving him more touches, you start giving him 568 00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:15,800 more shots, that it changes for the better. Because he was as good 569 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:22,320 a shooter and scorer as he was. I think you can make an argument 570 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,320 that he was even more valuable on the possessions where he didn't touch the ball, 571 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,760 sort of like the Steph gravity impact, but obviously at depth level. 572 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,039 Yeah, I mean, like Chris Paul is going to get whatever shot Chris 573 00:38:34,119 --> 00:38:39,039 Paul wants whenever Chris Paul wants it, but just making those marginally easier over 574 00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:43,199 the course of a season has an immense impact, and I think that's what 575 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,719 Reddick did more than anything else if you ask him to lead those second units 576 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:51,400 and stuff like, I don't think you're going to see a positive change. 577 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,920 I guess I'm just looking at what he sort of accomplished in Philly amid still 578 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,719 playing with stars but clumpy spacing a sort of proof that maybe he could have 579 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,840 done more. But I also think what you're saying hits the right notes too. 580 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,920 I will say, even though it was basically in small volume, he 581 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,719 was in the seventieth percentile or better as a pick and roll ball handler every 582 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,880 single season he was with the Clippers, which is just look, even if 583 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,599 that's in small doses where it accounts for between you know, seven and ten 584 00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:19,880 percent of his offensive possessions, five and ten percent, whatever it ends up 585 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,239 being there, there's just value there. So just a quintessential offensive role player. 586 00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:29,000 Agreed, So from this point far in the rankings, Yeah, from 587 00:39:29,039 --> 00:39:34,159 this point forward, we actually have unanimity across the board. So the fans, 588 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,960 you and I all agreed. So I'll just say that in fourth place 589 00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:38,800 we had Lou Williams. Don't you feel good when we agree with the fans 590 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,639 And it's not like a number one spot where it's a concessive number one. 591 00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:45,360 It feels nice. It feels nice. I still think that Lou Williams should 592 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:52,119 have gotten some All Star love last year. I'm continuously impressed by the importance 593 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,000 of the role that he fills for the Clippers, and as his ability to 594 00:39:57,119 --> 00:40:02,800 take so many big possessions and get off so many tough shots and generate good 595 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,920 looks for his teammates, whether he's kicking the ball back out off a drive, 596 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,760 whether he's running a pick and roll, and it seems like he never 597 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:15,639 makes a mistake, Like it doesn't feel like he's capable of taking a bad 598 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,719 shot because he's such a good, tough shot maker. It doesn't ever feel 599 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,440 like he turns the ball over. He never loses his handle, he doesn't 600 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,840 make ill advised passes. It's like he's just this, this perfect bench weapon. 601 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,000 I feel like twenty years from now, we're gonna be looking back at 602 00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:35,400 Lou Williams as one of the all time great off the bench scorers, like 603 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,199 a Vinnie Johnson microwave guy. Wow, that's yeah, there's He definitely should 604 00:40:40,199 --> 00:40:45,039 have gotten All Star love last season. Like it's just is that too hot? 605 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,079 Do we need the hot? Take? Sound? There or is that 606 00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:51,199 is that more tepid. I'm not quite sure. It's just tough because when 607 00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:55,400 you look at the who he's up against in the Western Conference, like that's 608 00:40:55,519 --> 00:41:00,000 just who is he knocking off that year. So that's where the argument was. 609 00:41:00,039 --> 00:41:04,039 But to get more love, just more consideration where it felt like he 610 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,599 probably deserved equal consideration compared to what Tobias Harris or Danilo Gallinari was getting. 611 00:41:08,679 --> 00:41:12,679 And if you just look, I know he's doing this off the bench since 612 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,039 he arrived with the Clippers, But listen to the names of all the players 613 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,119 who over the past three seasons including this one, or averaging at least twenty 614 00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:24,480 points six assists and shooting thirty six percent from three James Harden, Damian Lillard, 615 00:41:24,639 --> 00:41:29,559 Kemba Walker, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, Bradley Beale, Steph and 616 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,639 lou Will. That is it's absurd. Yeah, that's the word I was 617 00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:38,199 going to gravitate towards like that's I was trying to weed out some profanity I 618 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,280 was going to slip out of my mouth. But we've had some complaints about 619 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,480 my profanity as of late, so I don't mean any any harm by it. 620 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,400 I'll try to make it my profanity will be more more selective. I'll 621 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,039 be more deliberate about it as opposed to just letting it roll off and not 622 00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:57,000 realizing it. I like, that's mind melting to me again. I know 623 00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:00,480 he's doing it off the bench. I also really don't care when you look 624 00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:05,119 at how much they leaned on him in crunch time situations last year. He 625 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,199 is as close to stardom as you can get without actually being a star. 626 00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:14,559 Probably, And I said, that's like not as hot. After I say 627 00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:16,800 probably, He's absolutely in that tier where it's now. He's not a star, 628 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:22,920 but he can actually shoulder the burden of one for pretty long stretches. 629 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,599 It's not you're not going to build a team around him. But like, 630 00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:31,920 I don't know if we underrate him because or is he not viewed as a 631 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,239 consensus I would say top fifty player, and I might even be guilty of 632 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,679 this or top forty player because he's he's not good defensively. Let's just get 633 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:43,000 that out of the way. He's terrible defensively, and then lou Williams plays 634 00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:45,840 defense exactly, so he just if they should just have him cherry pick in 635 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,880 certain occasions, but then that takes the ball out of his hands though in 636 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,079 the backcourt a little bit sometimes, So maybe he don't want to do that 637 00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:57,519 anyway though, And maybe it's because he hasn't had all of the most convincing 638 00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:01,280 playoff campaigns at the same time, Like those numbers just don't lie. And 639 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,800 now we're at a point where, yeah, even this season his production has 640 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,880 dropped off a little bit, but he's still given you eighteen point seven points 641 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:15,039 five point seven assists and shooting thirty six point three percent from deep, where 642 00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:16,920 it's like, yeah, he could probably shoot a higher percentage on his twos, 643 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,719 but the quality of the twos he's taking isn't very high, so maybe 644 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,239 you should be happy he hits more than forty four percent of them. Like 645 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,119 this guy's just been clockwork. It's not even really just the past three seasons. 646 00:43:28,199 --> 00:43:30,519 He was big when he was you know, maybe not so much even 647 00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:32,400 just with the Lakers. I'll even say that, like we don't remember the 648 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,639 Lakers in Houston days as as finally or even Toronto, but just look at 649 00:43:36,679 --> 00:43:39,559 his numbers, like just clockwork. He gets buckets, and these past three 650 00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:44,920 seasons with the Los Angeles Clippers have been I would argue, without a doubt, 651 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,079 the best of his career, and they've come age thirty one, age 652 00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:51,679 thirty two, age thirty three, which is wild. So while you're on 653 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,119 your soapbox, I was looking up something because I was curious, and these 654 00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:58,360 are a soapbox. I didn't think that that was something that would ever be 655 00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:06,280 These are shamelessly generated parameters because we're only looking at nineteen eighty one through the 656 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,400 present, because that's as far back as we have games started data on Basketball 657 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:15,000 Reference for every single player. I'm only looking at players who have not started 658 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,079 more than one hundred twenty games in their careers. Lee Williams is at one 659 00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:22,800 eighteen, So, like again, shamelessly generated, I will I will not 660 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,719 deny that, But do you think you can name any of the other top 661 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,760 ten career scorers during that time frame with fewer than one hundred and twenty games 662 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:37,159 started. I don't think I would have gotten JJ Barea, okay, and 663 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,239 maybe no one else. But that means that there's got to be like this 664 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:44,559 huge drop off between the actual scoring numbers. Yeah, yeah, so Tracy 665 00:44:44,679 --> 00:44:49,239 Murray fifty nine hundred, Michael Cooper sixty two hundred, Gerald Green sixty four 666 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,039 hundred, Nate Robinson sixty eight hundred, Ron Anderson seven thousand, Chris Gatling 667 00:44:53,159 --> 00:44:58,880 seventy two hundred, JJ Barreta seventy four hundred, Leandro Barbosa nine thousand, 668 00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:02,280 Del Curry twelve thousand, six hundred, seventy, Lou Williams fourteen thousand, 669 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,800 four hundred, twenty four. Del Cary's actually closer than I thought. That's 670 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,719 someone would have agreed, Yeah, agreed, but still but still like I 671 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,559 don't I don't know. I feel validated in my uninformed claim that he's going 672 00:45:15,639 --> 00:45:17,119 to go down as one of the best bench scorers ever. And with you 673 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,400 and you, you've found arbitrary cutoffs to prove it. I'm proud of you, 674 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,159 absolutely, thank you, shameless. That's the hardwood nos way right there. 675 00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:31,199 H Can you take us two? Number three? I can. It's 676 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,079 DeAndre Jordan, which I don't think is going to surprise anybody, because you 677 00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:40,480 know, the Big three Lob City era defined this decade for the Clippers. 678 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,159 Regardless of what Kawhi Leonard does this year, I think even if they win 679 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,599 a title, this is still the decade of the Lobs City Clippers because they 680 00:45:49,679 --> 00:45:52,880 brought the franchise back to relevance. They made the franchise fun to follow, 681 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,119 fun to watch. They were there for so long. I mean, they're 682 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,480 pretty clearly the top three and minutes played, and DeAndre Jordan, despite having 683 00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:06,679 more longevity than any of the other two members of said big three, was 684 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,760 clearly the third wheel. So this was as much of a fore gone conclusion 685 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,320 as maybe any player in a non number one spot in any of these rankings. 686 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:21,440 I did briefly consider putting Lou Williams over him, just because even in 687 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,719 this decade, I don't know that this was necessarily his fault when you look 688 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:30,079 at just the coaching decisions during the time twenty two eleven, two thousand twelve, 689 00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:31,280 just didn't play a ton of minutes, and then all of a sudden 690 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,400 in two thirty fourteen, he's at thirty five minutes a game. Like that's 691 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,239 because stoc Rivers was convinced that he was a defensive Player of the Year candidate. 692 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,519 Remember, probably always been overrated defensively, but then we got to a 693 00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:45,039 point where he was underrated defensively because people didn't realize that he could move on 694 00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:50,599 defense as well. So but anyway, I realized that that would have been 695 00:46:50,639 --> 00:46:54,440 way too egregious. The theirness factor alone, just mister iron Man himself during 696 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,880 his time with the Clippers. And look, there are always players who might 697 00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:04,760 want more in their role where they don't just want to be this lob catching 698 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,760 rim runner. And he was okay with that, and he played his role 699 00:47:09,079 --> 00:47:12,559 to a t. It worked for the Clippers and looked there were parts of 700 00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:15,800 his game that were well, I'll say at least one part of his game 701 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,159 that he really worked on was just his passing. He's become later in his 702 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,079 career more so just a more decisive, a more intelligible pass where he can 703 00:47:24,119 --> 00:47:27,719 make quicker decisions, throw a little bit on the move, throw some of 704 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,800 my stand still passes too, which I would argue for someone in his position 705 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,079 can actually be a little bit harder, because when you're rolling towards the rim, 706 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,880 you can get used to kind of sprang the ball out, you know, 707 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,440 to the corners or around the witch's nipple and or even just behind you. 708 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,400 And the fact that he's been this again, it's probably more so later 709 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,360 in his career that last season with the Clippers specifically, you can that's where 710 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,280 it really felt like there was this this uptick. But that's you know, 711 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,400 this isn't You can look at his assists numbers, and I think at least 712 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,400 up until the final year with the Clippers, be like, well, you 713 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,119 know, Hassan white side over here. It just it was never like that 714 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:04,000 with him. Did you say witches nipple? Why? Why have I never 715 00:48:04,119 --> 00:48:07,599 heard this term? I learned it at a basketball camp years and years ago, 716 00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:12,280 and I it's just stuck with me, like that's what they called. 717 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,199 Stop listening after everything else, about everything else, After you said that, 718 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:20,320 I apologize and hope it's not actually uh politically incorrect at this point, but 719 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,320 that's like, that's what it was called. When I was at this, 720 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,920 it was what is what is it? It's the so it's it's not an 721 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,719 above the break, it's not the corner. It's like that area in between. 722 00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:31,280 Okay, but yeah, the arc, like they call that the witch 723 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:36,000 is nipple. H Well, I say, ye, I learned something today 724 00:48:36,119 --> 00:48:38,079 that basketball camp is what it called. I never googled it to see if 725 00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:40,440 it was a thing. Again, I'm talking about I'm scared to google it. 726 00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:44,679 It was at a basketball camp I tended like for three or four years 727 00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:46,559 in a row when I was like twelve, and that they always called it. 728 00:48:46,639 --> 00:48:50,440 That always stuck with me. I was, by the way, the 729 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,920 foul shooting champion one year of that basketball camp. I just like to I'm 730 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:58,079 impressed. I'm impressed probably some like lefty hooks because that's the best part of 731 00:48:58,159 --> 00:49:00,800 your game. No, that didn't develop until I realized that I couldn't shoot. 732 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,960 It's fair, which is weird that I want the free throw shooting competition. 733 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,760 I just I just I want to know, like, yeah, I've 734 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,239 I've worked in the basketball industry for over a decade and I've never heard this 735 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,920 term before. Is that on me? Or have most people not heard it? 736 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,519 I never even googled it to see like if it was a if it 737 00:49:17,639 --> 00:49:22,679 was a thing, and I just googled it now and it's basketball isn't the 738 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,159 first thing to come up when you type it in, And there's a lot 739 00:49:24,199 --> 00:49:30,280 of other i'll say, more erotic things that come up when you type it, 740 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:35,280 so don't google it. So basically like you were scolded for cursing too 741 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,719 much. So now we're just going to talk about pornography on on the podcast. 742 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,400 This one was like actually unintentional. It just rolled off. It just 743 00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:45,519 rolled off my tongue there. Maybe I shouldn't be using tongue in this discussion 744 00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:50,559 either. Can we move on to Saandre Jordan? Can we move on to 745 00:49:50,639 --> 00:49:52,960 number two? Let's just let's get away from DeAndre Jordan. We can. 746 00:49:53,119 --> 00:50:00,800 It's it's Blake Griffin, shocker, a lot of dunk, a lot of 747 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:05,480 fun plays. Like I feel like Blake Griffin's value to the Clippers and what 748 00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:08,920 he did in the Labsody era is like so readily apparent that we don't even 749 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,639 need to spend that much time on it. No, I think maybe just 750 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,320 to mention that he was so much more than a dunker, I've lost all 751 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:21,280 trains of thought. Now he's someone I'll try to try to bring us back. 752 00:50:21,559 --> 00:50:24,880 He's someone who can like was able to face up and score all that 753 00:50:25,039 --> 00:50:29,800 was basically throughout his entire tenure with the Clippers, even when Chris Paul arrived. 754 00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:31,519 But then like you see after Chris Paul left, and he's just bringing 755 00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:35,239 the ball up the court more. And we've seen it when he's been healthy 756 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,239 with Detroit anyway, and that's like he never would have surpassed EP three. 757 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:43,639 But I'm looking at his overall legacy. If just injuries aren't a factor. 758 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,280 And I know that maybe this is too big of a disclaimer given how good 759 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,320 he is, though I feel like it's not think of where he could be 760 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,440 just like remembered all time. I'm not saying he's gonna be a top twenty 761 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,760 five player of all time if he never gets in, but he's really ridiculously 762 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:07,679 good and famer I don't know. I would lean towards yes. But I 763 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,960 also just don't know, like if I if I have the recency bias there, 764 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,039 I'm actually going to try and look and see what not the perfect example 765 00:51:15,039 --> 00:51:19,480 of fifty four point eight percent on Basketball References probability calculator, That's what I 766 00:51:19,559 --> 00:51:22,480 was gonna That's what I feel like. It's too high. I think I 767 00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:28,079 think it depends on how he recovers from this latest knee injury. If he 768 00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,599 if he fizzles for the next couple of years and doesn't do anything notable, 769 00:51:31,599 --> 00:51:35,480 I don't think he gets in. If he returns to that level, I 770 00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:39,199 think I think he'll be one of those those litmus test cases where he's like 771 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:44,559 right on the cusp his career similarity scores, though if you look at them, 772 00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:47,840 like there are some interesting players in there, but those are based purely 773 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,239 on wind shares, right, Yeah, but still just throwing it out there. 774 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,480 Yeah, yeah, I would probably. I think fifty is probably fair, 775 00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:58,400 but you're right, it a lot might depend on how he recovers some 776 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,800 injury, and then that's going to even just make the But if even more 777 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,679 because he's clear. If if injuries aren't a huge factor of his career, 778 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:09,199 because basically every player gets injured unless they're DeAndre Jordan, apparently, he's then 779 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,639 a he probably is close to a consensus Hall Famer, right, Like, 780 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,360 if we're not talking about injuries messing up parts of his career, and also 781 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:24,719 if we don't have to talk about like complete playoff collapse during in that Lob 782 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,199 City era. I mean, it's shocking that that group of players never made 783 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:36,320 it to the Western Conference finals. And I think it was more a into 784 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,000 Chris Paul, who checks in at number one for US for US because the 785 00:52:39,119 --> 00:52:43,360 lack of playoff success is such a big part of his legacy. But I 786 00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:47,760 never really felt like it was because he underperformed. No, I mean, 787 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:52,880 there was definitely the untimely injuries and also twenty fifteen going up three to one 788 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:57,119 in the semifinals and then losing to the the Rocket, letting Josh Smith just 789 00:52:57,199 --> 00:53:00,840 annihilate you in the fourth quarter of Game six. That's not been in the 790 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:05,400 Memphis collapse too. Yeah, they had some collapses, and that's probably why 791 00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:08,239 his legacy, if at all, is just a little bit controversial, because 792 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:12,360 it's so tough to pin this. That entire era of Clippers basketball, it 793 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,920 was spectacular, but they like never making it out of the second round for 794 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,719 a team that was that good. I know, only two teams make it 795 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,000 out of the second round in each conference per year, but they were so 796 00:53:22,159 --> 00:53:24,599 good you would you would have expected them, given the time, the amount 797 00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:28,039 of time they were together, to have been one of those two teams at 798 00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:31,719 least once, right. I mean, if we circle back to the trivia 799 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,840 question from the very beginning, and those those teams with the five most wins 800 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,199 over the last decade, all of them won a title or made it to 801 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:47,239 the conference finals except for the Clippers. Yeah, that's absolutely they are one 802 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,920 of the most fascinating teams. I would love to watch a thirty for thirty 803 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,480 on that Clippers era of basketball. I feel like that's probably thrown around a 804 00:53:52,519 --> 00:53:55,599 little bit too haphazardly at this point in time, but I would love to 805 00:53:55,639 --> 00:54:00,519 see something like that on them. And the other last thing maybe cover with 806 00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:04,119 Griffins and if we're looking for points that maybe just aren't I won't say covered 807 00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:07,679 enough, and maybe that wouldn't be immediately talked about. So he resigns and 808 00:54:07,039 --> 00:54:12,920 we can the whole way that he resigned and the Clippers setting up the Clipper 809 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,960 for life. There is you know, an issue of morality there. Granted 810 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:21,840 this is a business. What they received for him in trade really helped position 811 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,039 them for where they are now. I mean, you got Tobias Harris, 812 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,920 who you were then able to turn into assets, some of which are still 813 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,760 with the Clippers like Landry Shammitt now, but you also got a first round 814 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,880 pick that you were able to help turn into shake gil Just Alexander at the 815 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,960 draft and then shake gild Just Alexander was a big part of the reason you 816 00:54:37,039 --> 00:54:42,320 were able to get Paul George Like that's you know, his contract has now 817 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,360 viewed as onerous as it as it should be with the Detroit Pistons, but 818 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,880 he's a big part of what the Clippers are right now, not just because 819 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,480 he put them in the map by being an it guy, but because of 820 00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:53,639 what they got back for him in trade. And then the last thing I'll 821 00:54:53,639 --> 00:54:57,880 say is I really just appreciate his deadpan humor. If you've watched any of 822 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,840 his stand up sets and even when he's been doing interviews, I could just 823 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:05,840 appreciate that, And I it makes me wonder if that's why maybe Chris Paul 824 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,480 and him didn't necessarily get along, because Chris Paul seems like a very super 825 00:55:08,519 --> 00:55:13,440 serious guy behind the scenes, at least you know, before his age thirty 826 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:19,239 four thirty thirty three seasons. Still, I appreciate the type of humor that 827 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,679 Blake Griffin conveys. Like that, that deadpan I feel like that's really hard 828 00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:27,559 to perfect and he's done it well. That he has number one, very 829 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,320 very divisive pick here Chris Paul. Obviously, there is no doubt. I 830 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:37,039 don't think that you could really make a realistic argument for not having him number 831 00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:42,960 one, even though one fan ballot didn't have him appear at all, which 832 00:55:43,039 --> 00:55:52,079 was interesting. But yeah, I mean, is there any doubt? No, 833 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,199 there's none. I kind of wish he would have spent one more season 834 00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,920 with the Hornets this decade because there would have been, then a real chance 835 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,000 of him landing up on four teams is top ten. Yeah, and maybe 836 00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:05,199 maybe. I'm sure fans will even stop him in for what he did in 837 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,239 twenty ten twenty eleven, But Chris Paul is one of the best players of 838 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:12,000 all time. He might be I'd probably still go Magic Johnson, but he's 839 00:56:12,039 --> 00:56:14,400 got to be, and maybe even Steph Curry at this point, but he's 840 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:15,119 one of the three best point guards of all time. To me, do 841 00:56:15,159 --> 00:56:20,280 you disagree we might have actually already had this conversation. I don't disagree with 842 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,599 that. That's exactly where I have him so luke warm take Do you have 843 00:56:23,679 --> 00:56:27,880 any honorable mentions that you'd like to take us through. Yeah, let's do 844 00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,920 it. I don't think we need to spend much more time on Paul since 845 00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,159 we're probably already on the longer end here, right we're closing it on an 846 00:56:32,199 --> 00:56:35,840 hour, and so I would hope that these singular team ones can at least 847 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,920 stay under sixteen minutes. We're testing his shock. So people who got votes 848 00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,440 outside the top ten from the fans. We had Matt Barnes at eleven, 849 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,480 d Nilo Gallinari at twelve to Bias Harris at thirteen. Again, like we 850 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:51,280 felt like there was a clear cut top thirteen. Below that was Austin Rivers 851 00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,800 at fourteen, Eric Bledsoe at fifteen, Eric Gordon at sixteen, Paul Pierced 852 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:59,960 at seventeen, and then there was another drop off to Chris Cayman at eighteen 853 00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:04,119 and Baron Davis at nineteen, Mo Williams at twenty, Craig Smith at twenty 854 00:57:04,159 --> 00:57:07,840 one, tied with Shay gil Just Alexander. Then we had a tie at 855 00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:14,159 twenty third between Jamario Moon Jerome Robinson, twenty fifth was Darren Collison, and 856 00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:19,039 a tie for twenty sixth between Koran Butler, Jamichael Green and the one and 857 00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:22,199 only Boban Marianovitch. I knew Boban was going to make a list in some 858 00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,760 form. He had to get some love. I'm surprised he actually just wasn't 859 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:30,199 in the top fifteen. To be honest with you, Yeah, I mean 860 00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:35,800 it almost felt cruel to separate him from Tobias Harris that much. Right, 861 00:57:36,119 --> 00:57:38,159 Look, I can't believe they're not together anymore. My heart still hasn't fully 862 00:57:38,199 --> 00:57:40,639 recovered from I know. I don't want to think about that. Yeah, 863 00:57:40,719 --> 00:57:44,920 let's not we need to end this podcast now before we both cry. As 864 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,599 always, please remember to follow Adam on Twitter at Romo zero nine if you'd 865 00:57:47,639 --> 00:57:52,039 like to participate in these exercises. The Los Angeles Lakers are on deck and 866 00:57:52,119 --> 00:57:55,079 we will be sending out the former. Adam will post taste and at mba 867 00:57:55,239 --> 00:57:59,480 underscore math you can. You can find it there. Please rate, review, 868 00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:02,079 subscribe to us on iTunes or whatever else you get your podcasts. Until 869 00:58:02,159 --> 00:58:06,840 next time, we leave you with the shout out to the one the only 870 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:15,719 Clippers living legend, Bryce Johnson, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, 871 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:22,079 Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns. Legends whose four way rivalry define one 872 00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:25,639 of the greatest errors in boxing history. Relive their decade of dominance in the 873 00:58:25,719 --> 00:58:30,679 new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four parts series premiering Sunday, June 874 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,239 sixth, only on Showtime