Do you, And welcome to all evening morning, Well wherever you are,
just to keep, isn't it? You're welcome, Welcome to Untold Radio's down
South and normalis This is episode forty five to catch a Flying Start Australian newfo
experiences and what's old is New as prosy, and we will explain tonight that
nothing has really changed when we step back nearly thirty years, twenty eight years
to a program I did for Radio National here in Australia, a radio documentary
in the mid nineties. So let's just go to our super chat really quickly,
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chats and stickers now, that's right, and send those super chats and stickers
now. My name is Jay Katsa the Beautiful Aspasia And as we said before,
it's episode forty five. In US, we say every week we are
broadcasting on stolen land. Yes, having a referendum very soon. They haven't
given us a date really yet, have they. But everyone in this country
should be saying yes to our indigenous people. Got to say whatever they want
to say. No, I don't think they should be. But anyway,
all right, the Gattigal people, the or nation, and we want to
respect and acknowledge elders past, present and emerging, as we do every week.
Now. It's so interesting that flutter of news is just out of control
and we haven't stopped. A couple of really hot interviews up the collapsed on
us. One of them I can announced, the other one I'm keeping quiet,
so I don't curse it. But Dean Bennett is probably Australia's most unsung
absolutely stuntmen stuntmen, and he recanted an incredible UFO's story to me recently at
the Sydney premiere of Ribspreader, Dick Dale's incredible feature of film about the dangers
of cigarette smoking and beyond. I think anyway tonight we were we're working at
well, that's yeah, we're working. But when he's ended up having to
go to Melbourne, Yes, so we've got the blue so we've got him
next week, so he will be here. But you know the thing,
the beauty of that was we we delved into his background and it's just profound.
It is just profound. It's just crazy. I mean, you would
have been led to believe in the seventies of Grant Page was the only stunt
men in Australia. He seemed to be on everyone. Yeah, that's fair
enough, and it wasn't. It was in there as a kid filmmaking,
Oh my god. And he worked on Survivor the record by David Hemmings.
That's right, in just an amazing film. It's an incredible para normal aspect
to it. But anyway, and but the amazing plane scene that will they
have an entire jumbo jet crash, which is one of the most profound things
you were ever going to see recorded on filmy early in the piece in the
late seventies, and Dean was on set as as a child, as a
child. Anyway, his story is fascinating. And then he will recant this
amazing UFO experienced story that he he was told by a friend of it or
a security guard that he was, which is which is a fascinating so we'll
get more clarity on that next week. But in the meantime, we've gone
back to a program I did for Radio Nashville with a lot of your assistance,
the scenes, behind the scenes, and it was a potted history of
Australian uphological reports, yes, with little tinches of archival news and a lot
of you know, interesting archival news, but some very wacky of newss well
and Michael Williams who was who went out on the nullable with Michael Williams was
an infrared photography and Anthony lah who had experiences himself, but he was a
brilliant musician, cheerful and itchy and scratching and scratchy, and so I did
the background music music with him and it's it's an amazing sound score and the
whole you know, you'll you'll hear it. It's it's really evocative of you
know, back in the day. And it was during was it during the
X Files? Was the files hadn't even Adam started yet, but it was
about to start. This thing came out on cassette. Well, it was
so much in demand, it was so interested by the population. But it
was the four last the original cassette. The format was cassette then, so
this is even before CD so and then when CDs came in not long after
that, and then they pulped all these they threw with the garbage away.
Well these in the National Archives. It's not no, I mean all the
copies that they had that you know, everybody was changing over so quickly.
Anyway, get it online these days it can cost a fortunately anyways. Anyway,
so in there to Cope build Chalker, it really is the history of
from the Australian government perspective of containing a controversy. That's right, and it
always has been that way and it still is that way to day. But
this is to the mobile phone and the internet really, I mean the internet
was in its infancy. Yes, the mobile phone had really not hitting people's
hands apart from those huge bricks with antennas on the y and lots of interviews.
We actually got a chance to interview Bob Grant, whose mother was the
Secretary in Sack the Strategic Air Command at the time, and speaks about the
nineteen fifty two Inton. Yeah, that was incredible. For two weeks,
that is unbelievable. We also hear from our indigenous culture Norm Grogan speaks about
the family and the men in light. We've got a pilot in their military
and civilian pilots from lots of different stories from different Hennessy, Yeah, from
different sectors of the community, and just lots of great reports from tenacious,
pragmatic individuals from all across the country. A lot of those people living off
the land. Michael Williams was searched. Did feature in fourteen Times the Wonderful
Weakness of Oz issue, which is two hundred and thirteen from August two thousand
and six. That was the yeah when it came out. So there's his
great photos he took in the nulla war of what looks like the space cret
is of Nope, Trevor James Kunstable and Wilhelm Reich and they are in an
area that researchers like Paul Devereaux would have called an earthlike area. We need
to move along otherwise, what did you want to eationally? Let the start
here. I wanted to play a little piece I'd slipped across recently by the
incredible author Philip K. Dick. The men behind Blade Runner, Scanner,
Darkly, you name it, Minority Report. This is the genius and minds
you. He was doing a lot of quay ludes in his day, but
he talks. I think that there was the doorway do huxed to call it
that, but but he spoke at a sci fi convention in France in the
late seventies and now it's probably coming off the back of that astounding book valis
that he was having time slippage something that I think there could be something that
may be starting to alban there from Reno Nordica. We're gonna have to check
that out. But this is literally the world is a simulation before anyone else
articulated it, and it's the Mandela effect. So let's have a listen to
Philip K. Dick before we go into the incredible audio documentary now tonight.
For those people listening on audio, you get a feast. We can go
and make dinner whiles we've got that running, so we get a bit of
a break. There's no visuals, but you can just slide back and meditate
to this and hopefully you'll enjoy that complex electronic score I did with Anthony mark
You. In the meantime, let's have a little few words from Philip K.
Dick about the Mandela effect before it occurred. Isn't that the subject of
the speech as a topic which has been discovered recently and which may not exist
at all, I may be talking about something that does not exist. Therefore
I am free to say everything or nothing. I and my stories and novels
often write about counterfeit worlds, semi real worlds, as well as deranged private
worlds inhabited often by just one person, while meantime the other characters either remain
in their own worlds throughout or are somehow drawn into one of the peculiar ones.
This theme occurs in the corpus of my twenty seven years of writing.
At no time did I have a theoretical or conscious explanation for my preoccupation with
these pluriform pseudo worlds. But now I think I understand. What I was
sensing was the manifold of partially actualized realities lying tangent to what evidently is the
most actualized one, the one which the majority of us, by consensus gentium
agree on. Later that day, back home again but still deeply under the
influence of the sodium pentethol, I had a short acute flash of recovered memory.
Then in mid March, a month later, the total body of memories,
intact and entire, began to return. You are free to believe me
or to disbelieve, but please take my word on it that I am not
joking. This is very serious, a matter of importance. At that time,
I had no idea what I was seeing. It resembled nothing that I
had ever heard described. It resembled plasmic energy. It had colors, it
moved fast, it collected and then dispersed. But what it was, what
he was, I am not sure even now. In other words, it's
a common theme in my writing that a dark haired girl shows up at the
door of the protagonist and tells him that his world is delusional, that there's
something false about it. Well, this did finally happen to me. I
even knew that her hair would be black. I had an actual, complete
sense of what she would look like and what she would say. She did
appear she was a total stranger, and she did inform me of this fact
that some of my fictional works were, in a literal sense true. I
wrote out these dreams in novel after novel, story after story, to name
two in which this prior ugly present obtained most clearly. I cite The Man
in the High Castle and my nineteen seventy four novel about the US as a
police state called Flow My Tears. The policeman said, I'm going to be
very candid with you. I wrote novels based on fragmentary, residual memories of
such a horrid slave state world. People claim to remember past lives. I
claim to remember a different, very different, present life. I know of
no one who has ever made this claim before, but I rather suspect that
my experience is not unique. What perhaps is unique is the fact that I
am willing to talk about it. We are living in a computer programmed reality,
and the only clue we have to it is when some variable is changed,
and some alteration in our reality occurs, we would have the overwhelming impression
that we were reliving the present DejaVu, perhaps in precisely the same way,
hearing the same words, saying the same words. I submit that these impressions
are valid and significant, and I will even say this, Such an impression
is a clue that it's past time point, a variable was changed, reprogrammed
as it were, and that because of this, an alternative world branched off.
Okay, incredible. So that was in nineteen seventy seven in France that
he's making my speech. Now you actually you were showing me a whole bunch
of clips the other day. That is impossible. It's just a great piece
on bits of you know what looks like the matrix glitch well that people and
I can't accept for one second logically that this could be well, none of
this. Why would you do the depth of pain and suffering that people have
to go through in this Why wouldn't you just a little? Why would you
if we have if we have that capacity. But it's a fascinating thing and
one extraordinary mind. Out of most science fiction writers, I think that Philip
K. Dick, no matter how you want to interpret him as a drug
fueled madman or someone with pure insight, he had probably had more clarity on
the way the future was going. The most futurist and science fiction writers ever
did romanticize their work. There's a sense of realism, and it resonates with
the population. It really don't Terminator and all those films you know heavily.
I don't know if it's terminated, but the one about Mars he certainly was
based on Philip K. Dick's work, but definitely Blade running a darkly minority
report, all that sort of stuff. But before we go there, let's
let's talk about these light beings that are occurring in Peru. This story is
not going away, and it certainly does not look like has anything to do
with people going there jumping on gold in the area. Now I realized,
you learn, as we always have that piece with Robert and Tom Wilson telling
us to you know, don't believe, reassess. So this village is quite
remote. I think it's about eighteen kilometers away from anywhere that you could call
for help by both. So you are in trouble, and you know,
this seems to have been occurring, you know, not just for the past
month, but for many, many years. So what I did was I
came across a piece from the Incredible channel go and check them out UAP Brazil
and this is in Brazil. I think it's around two thirteen, but this
is very similar activity. Let's just get a little glimpse of this now and
maybe put the mic on on Talk over the top because the translations not in
English, but there's subtitles. Okay, let's go right, So even though
the it's really odd as the village no village, and this is an account
of a being that hit a beam of light from an identifying phenomena and it
actually is taking out these young ladies. It actually one of them had a
miscarriage after the incident. It seems to roll into this village at about nine
pm pim pim. It's luminescence folding in on itself and before you know,
and it's flowering these like what appears to be laser beams. Animal So it's
very difficult to get the complete truth of this situation, especially in Peru.
This is much earlier information, but it looks like this area for decades.
The phenomena seems to be taking advantage of the fact that these people are in
a remote area, and we know from the Australian wilderness there seems to be
Is it the fact that people more perceptive, that they're aware of the environment
much better, or is it the fact that the phenomena is exploiting the remote
us. Yeah, it's really odd and none of us can really tell.
I think we'll get rid of that footage. But go and look at you
ap Brazil, and it's very interesting. The information that's coming out of there.
What I do know now is that whether it was the Navy or the
Army that went in, it was only a few of them, and they
didn't do much report. They just debunked it with you know, you jet
packing gold mining claim jumpers. But the truth of the fact is that it
hasn't stopped. And so now the community itself is going out at night on
mass trying to hunt down the peller carters or whatever you call face peeling,
the face pillar. There is this really graphic footage one body being removed from
the water that we don't want to we don't want to look out. You
don't have to see that. So, without any further ADO, this is
the first time we're going completely to something that's audio. We're just going to
have the title card, which is basically what was on the cassette in the
retail shops, the ABC shops twenty nine years ago, and you're going to
hear a much younger Jay Katz under my other name, Jamie Leonardo causs your
real name, see Leonardo or what's in a name? Actually, So,
without any further ADO, thank you for tuning in and being with us for
episode forty five. Hopefully fingers crossed, we will have Australia's most obscure yet
one of the most profound stuntmen, and with a fascinating story, with a
fascinating UFO story, and then we've got some really exciting guests. We keep
saying this, I know, I know we do, but we do every
week. Is exciting, all right, Okay, okay, here we go,
thank you. As from time immemorial, the Earth has been bombarded by
objects from out of space, bits and pieces of the universe, using our
atmosphere in an invasion that never ends. In every moment of every day.
They come from planets belonging to stars whose dying light is too far away to
be seen from vinity. They come without training side Bay Salt, just traveling
making to patch him. Yea across the sky. That looks unbelievable, doesn't
it. But it's a pretty accurate recreation of probably the most amajoring UFO sighting
ever in Australia or for that matter, anywhere else. We do actually have
photographs, I mean I know a photographs that's been taken by military plagues.
They hide them primarily because they're frightened of our meeting they don't know what's going
on. It must have been traveling at incredible speed since it disappeared out of
sight in a matter of a second or two. I wouldn't want to say
that this was one of those so called flying sauces, but whatever it was,
it was an object and not an illusion. Hello and welcome. My
name is Jamie Leonardo. I'm an independent UFO researcher with Alert, the Anomalous
Light and Energy Research Team. The first reported UFO sighting of the modern era
was by a civilian pilot, Kenneth Arnold, over Mount Rainier in Washington State.
It was June nineteen forty seven. Arnold claimed to have seen nine teardrop
shaped objects flying in formation. He likened their movement to sources skimming across the
surface of a lake. His sighting received worldwide media attention, and through Arnold's
description of these objects, the term flying sorcer entered popular consciousness. My name
is three Frank Buttshots standing Horse. I am an Odawa Indian. In the
nineteen fifty nine on delay of the twelve, I took a trip in a
flying sorcery. This up in two was two mars over the moon. Venus
Clarion and Arian. When I say Arian, I do not mean Oriyan.
It is a planet outside of our galaxy. And I was gone four days
and four nights in two half thanks the captain of the via Omas, which
is the name of this h flying saucer. Her name was Mandra Olika,
a very beautiful woman. She gave me the age of four hundred and seventeen
years old, that was in nineteen fifty nine. She was dull, a
tall, dark complected, beautiful blue eyes, well shaped, and she certainly
was worth with beauty. The climate of paranoia during the Cold War, I
mean that such startings were open and interpreted as Soviet incursions into American airspace.
The emerging nuclear threat made them all the more terrifying. During the Second World
War, there had also been a theory that the Nazis had managed to manufacture
flying sources which operated out of bases in the polar Ice Case. In mid
nineteen fifty two, one of the most famous unidentified radar and visual sightings occurred
over Washington, DC. Veteran Hollywood journalist Bob Grant remembers his mother coming home
from her job in the Pentagon, convinced that the invasion was imminent, a
proposition apparently taken seriously by the United States Air Force after a one year's investigation.
I believe that the flying sauces seen by veteran airline and Air Force pilots
are objects from another planet. Air Force itself has officially admitted that flying sauces
exist. This statement appears then projects Ice Case number seven twenty five. Not
only that the Air forces officially analyzed the motives of possible distress in space.
Here is a direct quotation from the official report. Such a civilization might observe
that on Earth we now have atomic bombs and are fast developing rockets. In
the past history of mankind, they should be alarmed. We should therefore expect,
this time above all, to the whole such visitation. At the time,
I was just about ready to go out of high school, and my
mother at the time was lurking in the Pentagon for the Strategic Air Command,
and who told better be interested in aerial phenomena than sack. While it was
very highly classified. She would come home in the evenings, particularly after the
first sighting, just totally pale. She couldn't talk about any of it,
but all the color was drained from her face, and everybody in the Pentagon
in Strategic Air Command was certain at that point that we were being invaded from
outer space. There, these these things were appearing, they were on radar.
They scrambled fighters. The fighters would lock their radar and their armament onto
these targets and they would just simply move out of the way. They would
fly off, they would go straight up, they would go to one side
there. It was just absolutely nothing tangible. But it was confirmed with the
radar lock from the fighter planes, from ground radar, from civilian radar at
the International Airport Washington International, and visual sightings from the ground and from the
tower. So whatever it was, and if they know what it was,
they're still not saying. At least I haven't heard. They were certainly fighting
by it. Inflating an immense balloon aboard the USS Norton Sound, the Navy
prepares for further study of the elusive cosmic rays somewhere in the Pacific. That's
the new A secondary consideration clears up the mystery of the so called flying saucers,
or it is these monsters which rise nineteen miles and attain diameters of one
hundred feet that have been mistaken for the apparitions called flying saucers. At great
altitudes. They tell us these ere elongated enormities flatten out like plates. Mystery
ended. Sightings of anomalous aerial phenomena are most often associated with North America,
but Australia has a long history of observations and was one of the first countries
to establish a UFO research center. In nineteen thirty, Sir Francis Chichester reported
seeing a strange object over the Tasan Sea, and Australia has written accounts dating
back to the mid nineteenth century. The oral history of Australia's Aboriginal people has
long incorporated unknown or inexplicable moving lights and objects in the sky. The Minmen
lights, as they are often called, are also an important part of many
a bush yarn. Accounts of these lights are common in Northwest Queensland Murray broadcasting
Norm Grogan and members an incident from his child. They've been a thousands of
views because there are actually paintings that are dating back a few thousand years depicting
minmen likeness handed down through storytelling through generations that the minimen light is there and
if you go out in the bush, be careful of it. You always
get warnings that the minmen light is there. It's always present and h it's
just associated with spirits, evil spirits, so therefore you muck the tangle with
it, and it's a deterrent when you're little, if you're playing around and
your parents don't want you to be mucking around, they say, what's out
that menmen Lot's gonna come get you. When I was growing up in Cans
we went out camping with Dad and Mum and uncles and buds and sisters quite
often to see and it's some of the ways that discipline you're from wandering off
too far. Don't get over there. There's a menmen lot over then we're
gonna come get you. You know. It's so that way you know you
you know from when you're literally like menmen lot is bad. It's got spirits,
bad spirits. So you don't play with it because the spirits might steal
your away from your family. So you just don't want to be involved with
it. Going back a few years when I was about it was about eight,
eight or nine years old. Ifew to us and we're were quite often
when across the mountain, eyes are from Cairns to see my mother's brother,
my uncle Matt Eisa and his family also spend school holidays with them, and
you know, we'd packed the whole car up and have ten of us kids
in there, you know, a packed there and with the dog even,
you know. So we'd go through and in those days, between Cans and
Mount Eis of the old Stuart Highways it was and it was all dirt.
It wasn't sealed. So every wet season we'd go across just before Christmas,
so there's quite a bit of rain on there and there's always mud, so
you're really taking it in your own hands, you know, to travel along
there, you're in safety. So we'd go along and get through the tracks
and everything. And then the particular instance was one night we were driving along
and we came across something some bikes and we'd passed them, and then you
know, everybody was saying, harder, bikes are there? Bikes are There's
quite a few that I can't remember exactly this. We had half a dozen
or so, but they're all on their big choppers and they're living and we
passed them and waved to them, and this is you know, this is
really dark now, and so we headed along the highway and we suddenly came
to a really muddy patch and it was sort of on a downhill run and
we were stuck in there and all of us had to get out. There's
living of us in the car now, third in Actually we kind of numb,
and Dad and we jumped out, and I was still sitting in the
car because I was smaller, second youngest at that stage. My little baby
sister was with us, and everybody else was out of the car and they
were pushing, and so her dad was out pushing, directing all the other
kids. And then a suddenly we said, oh, he's better help.
There's car KNERR. And we're watching. We thought it might have been a
truck because it was really high above the horizon, the little hump up on
the horizon. We came down the hill and then we thought, and that's
too high for a truck. Could be the bikers said yeah, yeah,
it could be the bikers. And then we thought, no, that's too
bright and too high. And then all of a sudden it just sat on
the hill and we thought, well, what are they waiting for, because
we're coming up. Three fire stopped and then looking down us. So we
stopped everybody outside stop trying to thing, you know, lifting the car out
of the bag. So they thought, well, we'll wait till the bikes
come there, can you'll say they energy, So they're waiting. We we
we're all waiting and waiting. And it seemed like, you know, so
I've probably twenty minutes or so or whatever, and then we suddenly realized,
hang on, what's this, what's the what are they doing up there?
And then we suddenly see the light sort of darting off off the road,
off the dirt track or think where are they going, you know, because
it's only just mud all around. And then I think Dad said, quick,
everybody start getting in the car. Come on, let's get the car
going. And he clicked on and he he said it's a men men light.
Hey. We were all like, come on, come on up,
we're just packing it, you know, And we eventually got it, got
the car out of the bag, and we took off and it was following
us for a little while and came up. You know, as I said,
it just keeps it good distance so that you can't get a good look
at it and you can't get too close to it because it knows it somehow
knows that you're watching, and it's not going to come up and give you
that chance to to work it out whatever it is. So we we all
got in the car and we're all like relieved, you know, and panicking
and yeah, we're getting away. But was following us with them when it
fun left? Thank god it's gone, you know. Oh. Given a
long history of unusual aerial sightings in Australia, it's not surprising that there is
also a lively culture of independent research. One of the most highly regarded researchers
in Australia is Bill Chawka. Bill is an industrial chemist and uses scientific skills
to search for physical traces of science of report to the incidents. I've been
sort of interested in one form or another since about the mid sixties. I
suppose I started collecting stories about them and clicking out newspaper clippings as a kid.
At that time, in the mid sixties, there was a lot of
widespread UF activity, not only in Australia but overseas. It was a topic
of a lot of interest and it generated a number of popular books. And
at those days, I suppose I had an increasing interest in what I thought
was scientific mysteries and things like this, and to me UFA has seemed to
represent a something that was a real challenge to science, something really quite extraordinary
going on. And as it turned out, sixty six was also scene of
a wave of UFAs sightings in my own sort of hometown local area of graft
And on the north coast of New South Wales and just about after towns or
UFAs, not myself, which is a bit of a pity, but but
it certainly sparked a bit more interest that something was happening on my own home
too, and so I gradually started to develop a little bit more interest in
it and started to really get into the literature in a big way and found
it. Certainly there was a lot of rubbish and a lot of really silly
stuff written about the phenomena, but in amongst it all there was a real
lot of interesting material. And so the interest became more and more pronounced,
and certainly I started becoming actively doing sort of fieldwork. In the late nineteen
sixties, I went through our university, University New England with a science to
ground, a major in chemistry and mathematics, and I suppose that background gives
you some sense of discipline interpreting sort of unusual phenomena, and certainly it gives
me pause in terms of evaluating things. I try to critically evaluate things,
and I work on the assumption that if there's a real anomalous phenomenon involved,
and if it survives a critical gaunt, necessarily worthwhile looking into and examining.
Given that approach, I can certainly still say that there is an incredible amount
of information out there that stands the test of time and stands up to really
critical evaluation. You know, the various skeptics and things like that, they're
fond of saying that basically, the only reason that there is a UFA phenomena
is this unexplained residue. When you do examine that residue, the reason why
the residue is there is that it is definitely unexplained. It's truly anomalous.
Widespread access to portable video cameras and ease of operation has meant an increasing body
of documentation for researchers. Many tapes are similar to this one recorded outside of
Newcastle in New South Wales. That's exactly the same thing, most trust,
that's the same thing going on or off. The shape is exactly the same.
That's what he's a sign one way and the other one went driving.
Another one went out and they went drive. They went to bring up another
one. We come to another one. Look over, hul give us one.
I just got a falline. This one and the other one's going back
towards us. Hey, mh you know, yeah, that's going in and
out. No, that wasn't, Michael. That's same things. Yeah,
yeah, that's one that's going down towards the other one. Just watched them
to the day paper recording on I was down towards Bagas nineteen seventy three.
We were living at the Central Coast, the entrance, and we'd gone to
bed at night and I I we went to sleep, and the next minute
I was in a spacecraft and that we had very large windows, and there
were seats like a seat attached to the wall. There were people sitting on
those suits in a transfer state. I was on a blog and operating table.
They're part a number of these tables, but I was the only person
on any of the tables. And on the other side of me, I
had two alien men. I presume bat your heart, but they had dresting
silver suits, and they only had they had no visible mouth or nose,
and they just had two slits here for the eyes. And they seemed to
speak by emitting a sound from their throat, and they were pumbling my stomach
and they really hurt him, and I was very upset, and I've sort
of said, well, you don't have to hurt me, you know,
let's be friends sort of thing. And they ignored me as though I was
a bug on the table. Most commentators would argue that Australia's right up there
amongst the leading countries in terms of UFA phenomena. I can send new pats
the fact that there's a lot of interesting phenomenon that's been going on in Australia
for a long long time, and there's certainly been no shortage of UFAs sightings.
I guess the earliest. To me, it's one of the more striking
ones as well. And I'm going back before the modern popularization of the UFA
phenomen and that's nine forty seven. To me, there are two. I've
always had an interest, by the way, in terms of historical pre nineteen
forty seven reports, because most people have argued or a lot of commentators have
argued that the UFA phenomena is like a space age answer to our fears and
concerns, etc. That it's essentially a modern hysteria. Look at it from
the point of view. Here we are stepping into our own sort of space
age. Obviously we're going to be seeing UFAs and alands all over the place,
and that it is a form of hysteria. And so it becomes interesting
to look at pre nine and forty seven sightings that pre date the Space Age.
And what's interesting is that in amongst that, particularly in the early part
of the century and last century, there are various events that seem to fit
into what appears to be USA phenomenal today. And for example, one that
occurred in eighty sixty eight, and this is one of the few that have
been able to document in a lot of detail, involved a paramattics surveyor,
Frederick William Birmingham, and he was twice Attoman on Paramoutic Council. He was
an engineer to the council. He did all sorts of technical drawings for the
council. So no flake basically, so he seemed to be well regarded.
But here was this I was given a copy of what appeared to be a
memorandum book or a diary written by this fellow, and at first I thought
it was some form of literary hoax, and I sort of thought it was
fascinating. I wrote about it a little bit to at least put it on
record at the time, but I always thought a little bit suspicious about it.
As it turned out, there was nothing at all in this memorandum book
or diary that was inconsistent with what appeared to be, and that was an
authentic record of the day. What he described was seeing what appeared to be
what he called a flying arc or as he said, i'm as, seemed
to go through the air, which appeared to land in paramatutic hark. And
he also described what he said was a spirit in a neutral dress or frock
presumably in those days was something like a full length tunic or something like that.
And this spirit, which ostensibly was a humanoid type of person, invited
him on board, and he was, according to his description of it,
flowing through the air and landed gently on the ground near the ark where it
landed, and he was taken on board by this spirit and showing around and
shining papers and these papers had some engineering relevance or something. He didn't know
it at the time that he was shown equations. And it was years later,
when he was working on some engineering work for the paramount of Council that
he came across those same equations that he had seen several years earlier inside this
strange arc. There was a certain degree we have at the high level of
weirdness about this story, but it nevertheless captured many of the elements that we
see to day in modern abduction counts, which is all the rage today.
And here we have an event that occurred way back in eighteen sixty eight Bill
Chalker. Here's how Frederick Birmingham wrote about the incident some years later. The
spirit appeared like a neutral tent shade and the shape of a man in his
usual frock dress. I was shown around the arc, after which the spirit
disappeared and I fell, I suppose into my usual sleeping state, waking next
morning deeply impressed with the vision of the night. It's tantalizing to ponder whether
the equation that Birmingham came across in that mysterious craft may have ended up being
used in the construction of local government buildings. We may never know how credible
a witness Frederick Birmingham was, and it's the credibility of witnesses which is often
called into question. I was walking in from me mates at about nine thirty.
I was coming to Uncommon Avenue West Ride, and I have been in
the sky and there was this object there. I thought it was just standing
still, so I stood still to see if it was moving or not,
and it wasn't. It was just there. And then I started going home
again, and then it moved across Save towards Paramatt, away from West Ride,
and then it was real clear when I first saw it, and by
the time went to Paramatta, another one come along and did they both just
stopped there, and then they rubbing me went down the road douvel looking to
see if there's any more that we've seen before that, and then we come
back and our backs just gone circular. It is more difficult to disregard the
testimonies of those who are trained observers, astronomers, pilots, and aircraft controllers.
For example, Clyde Tombar, the American astronomer who at the age of
twenty four discovered the planet Pluto, would later state publicly that he had observed
many UFOs in a moment. Australian pilot Allan Hennessy, a flyer with over
five thousand hours in both military and civilian craft, describes a couple of unexplained
incidents from his career. Well, if anyone still does in existence of flying
sources, they'll have to contend with fairly strong evidence produced by a scientist on
board the Anglo French supersonic airliner Concord. The Concord was flying at about fifty
five thousand feet over Chad in Africa, and it's been a fourteen hundred and
thirty seven mile than our. A team of scientists was aboard. The job
was to photograph the eclipse of the Sun from the most favorable position, and
so a series of pictures were taken during the period of Turtle eclipse. When
they were developed, they showed a strange luminous round object. It was hard
on the plane and about ten miles distance, according to Micha clode Power,
chief of the Rocketry division of the French Center of a Space study, and
an exhaustive analysis of angles and speed showed later that it had a diameter of
about six hundred and fifty feet. The first incidents of seeing something that I
didn't quite understand was in Darwin, I think from memory, late nineteen seventy
eight. It had just come off a shift. We're just meeting in the
beer garden of the officer's mess and now we weren't intoxicated and ordering the first
beer and sitting back waiting for it to be delivered. And it was after
dark, the sun had gone down about an hour so earlier, and they
were very bright. Light appeared from roughly west northwest at Albertude, traveling very
fast, about the speed we knew and had experienced before satellites traveled, and
said, oh, look on satellite sun reflecting on the satellite. It was
so bright that it really stood out against the now just starting to become visible
stars. And we watched it and it stopped straight above us. And it
wasn't a case of we've fixed our gaze on something that was now station.
This thing actually stopped and as we watched it, it turned about one hundred
and thirty hundred forty degrees to the right and just again it twice to speak.
Now I knew that satellites didn't do that. People said I was at
night it was autokinesis, which is the apparent movement of lights at night.
It wasn't that. And we looked at each other and they proceeded to have
a few beers and we could you describe the shape that you saw? Was
it a shape or was it an outline? What? What kind of visual
picture can you give us? Just like a very bright star, and if
you are looking all the time, you will see them from almost horizon horizon,
they are simply satellites. It's just like a very bright start. But
at that time of the evening it was much brighter than these stars, which
is just which were just becoming visible. What kind of discussed when we went
on amongst you and you're all experienced pilots or em and presumably what sort of
culture existed there to sort of talk about that in a serious way other than,
you know, just amongst the people who experienced it. Was there a
way to sort of acknowledge it officially? Uh? No, we didn't discuss
it at length. There was another pilot with us at the stage. I
wasn't qualified as an Air Force pilot, although I had a private license.
There were a couple of other TYPIC controllers we didn't discuss it more than a
minute or so. It just we just changed the subject. I think it
was a mutual mental decision that we weren't going to discuss this, and nothing
was reported, because what on earth we're going to say, sitting in the
beer gardens or strange lights again, perhaps fear of ridicule. About three or
four years ago, when I was flying the seven sixty seven with Quintus,
it was a daylight trip up through the Center. Then we're on our daw
and Singapore leg and we were getting off in Singapore and a few hours time,
it was about an hour or so before sunset. A lot of the
typical towering cumulus you see in the tropics, and as pilots want, we
stare out the window a lot because the things out there the key, you're
not much inside well. And it was a large towering cumulus, bigger than
the others off the right wing, and it was about I would estimate thirty
forty miles away. And as I looked at it, I don't know what
drew my attention to it, but as I looked at it, this large
object appeared out of it. It was like like half a large football.
I suppose, but it was I would say a couple of hundred feet high
from what I saw of it stuck out of at three four out from the
cloud, and it wasn't part of the cloud. It was metallic. It
shine, it glinted and stuck out of the cloud, not fully, stayed
there for a short while, then retracted back into the cloud. When it
was sticking out, I called the captain's attention to it, and he looked
over, looked at each other and we both said, right right. I
didn't know what to think, didn't know what to say. Called the flight
service director up the front and we said what do you think of that?
And he looked at it both and said I'm not here and wandered out down
the back again. As far as I know, no other reports were made
by the crew, Nothing was reported from the passengers, I think mainly because
they were asleep. Some of them were asleep. We didn't report it.
We basically forgot. It was one of those things where you see and when
it's not discussed, it wasn't discussed anymore. Was there any other evidence that
you came across in your time with Quantis that the show that perhaps the company
did recognize that there were incidents and events going on that they needed to deal
with, but when kind of acknowledging that publicly or even within the company itself.
And the time I spent with Chris it was about five years. I
saw no recordings of reports from pilots of seeing certain things. We had aircraft
incident reports, the safety incident reports, which were summarized, but there was
no mention of unusual areal sightings or strange phenomenon. It was it was like
it never happened. Now, one might say, well, it wasn't reported,
becuse nothing was ever reported. I know things were reported to colleagues,
but they weren't reported to the company. We didn't report that sighting. Now
the opportunity exists to be able to tell people who perhaps can confirm that what
you saw was real because they've had similar experiences and they think, oh,
thank heavens, it wasn't just me. We have about for objects have been
in the system for or an hour in the Vicinity Core Collective real. Actually
they're pretty close to olver sampled. Everybody here around has had radar at usual
our time. The classic lights running in near the city of uh old Port
to twelve thousand seat various observations and first was one three five and think on
one should have been about a one four five. I have one in that
area. You have one another area, all three of them in a row.
Hey about one four five march ducks spending these three also right if you
have if you have one of real nine real or we do not have that
one, but we do have the other two vatar I stu. I mean
that one. You look at the north of us, there's one coming pretty
fair and you think you're thinking of movement, and uh, he's coming from
north to south or if he's going on the south, fight over everything,
runway, he's right over here, runway, he's about your hands over the
way over and something right over Edward. This time data sounds of an alert
at Edward's Air Force Base in the nineteen fifties and pilot Alan Hennessy describing a
number of his experiences. Former Nassas scientist doctor Richard Haynes has made an extensive
study of pilot accounts documented through radar and visual sightings, evidence which appears to
be overlooked by academia and the military. Bill Chalker has had unprecedented access to
Royal Australian Air Force documentation of similar sightings and comments on how this information tends
to be handled. UFO or Unidentified flying object watchers will have to make their
own investigations of sightings. Following the RAFTS announcement that it won't be getting involved
in the future, the Minister of a Defense has limited the Air Force to
investigating phenomena which suggest defense or national security implications. I think unfortunately the military
situation has been characterized more of a case in containing a controversy. The military
obviously wanted the giving the appearance of being in control of the environment that they're
responsible for, and that in the case of the Air forces our air space,
they had a basically a formula that they would operate to. They would
examine sightings, etcetera. But there was no evidence of real serious science being
involved in the investigations of UFOs. Their final rationalization, the best response they
had to the UFO problem, which they could never effectively manage, was to
ignore it. Army fighter planes are on patrol for flying saucers. Cameras installed
a photographed them part in Oregon, the area from which came the first weird
report. This flying saucer shows how the air horses, while not putting too
much stock in the mysterious things in the sky, are investigating the control towers
in touch and on the watch. So are a whole lot of people these
days. They're seeing flying saucers everywhere, blocks of fantastic disks flying through the
air. Is there something to it or is it an epidemic of people just
seeing things? Even the goat seems to be looking for the mysterious discs and
the prayers on the alert. Or maybe there's a flying saucer with milk.
While the military and scientific communities reluctantly deal with vast amounts of evidence in the
popular consciousness, reports of anomalous aerial phenomena are still common. In preparing this
program, we gather dozens of written in all accounts from all over Australia,
many people describing their extraordinary experiences. For the first time, it was in
September nineteen sixty nine when I was working at n N eleven Koff's Harbor.
I was a news reader there at the time. Anyway, one of the
technicians came in one evening and he said, there appears to be rather strange
light in the sky and it was it was twinkling. So we went out
and had to look at it. And where the television station is in Koff's
Harbor, it's fairly remote from the from the town and it's on a hilltop.
But anyway, we went out and I had to look at it,
and I'd taken the binoculus and supervisor's office and went We looked at this object
in the sky and it was stationary and it was twinkling. And as I
was watching from somewhere in the off to its light, inside appeared a light
and the light was just gradually going and it went straight into the object that
was twinkling. And then I handed the monoculous back to the technician or three
or four teps by this time, and the others saw this light or another
light, or several lights, and they all appeared to just vanish into the
light. That was the bigger light that was there. They couldn't get any
anything terribly accurate on, but it was there, and these lights did come
from all directions. That's all light relating the surface, and I wanted to
relate something that happened to me back in seventy four. So it's quite a
long time ago, but it's like something that I've never forgotten. It just
affected me so deeply. I was living in Edophile and I was going off
to a party in Essendon that's about an hour's drive, and myself and kids
in the back, and I was in the passenger seat with my young three
year old on my lap and my partner was diving. And about a quarter
of an hour into the journey, I started to notice this light and I
thought, oh, well, it's a style or something, and it was
sort of moving in an odd way, and I really checked it out.
So during the hour's journey, I was really becoming more fascinated with this light
because it was it didn't seem like a normal sort of a star or whatever.
We got to the party, everyone went inside and hellos, and I
just thought I just wanted to go outside and see if that light just what
was it? And I went outside and they had quite a large yard and
I was standing out there and there was this light and it was moving like
in a jerky sort of a manner. It was like was going horizontally,
then it would jump up vertically and then it would hold and all the time
it was sort of coming closer and it was like, I think it was
quite far away, but I could see quite clearly that it was the shape
of a dome sort of shop, well, a typical flying sources. I'm
like to say that, you know, it sounds so sup it. And
then I became aware it was like a connection between myself and this object,
and it was like they were observing me now all the time I'm in the
yard, I'm yelling out, hey, you guys, come out here,
because I didn't want to let my connection go. I didn't want to stop
looking at it. I didn't want it to go away. And so the
only one out there was my three year old son. And this, I
suppose it was for about three minutes. This connection was there, and I
just was very aware that they were looking at me. Whatever it was was
very friendly. And then the connection broke and it started sort of whizzing all
over the sky from one side to the other. There were thousand six of
us were seeing some relatives off out the side of our house and we live
just off the coast a bit and it's nice and dark, stars pretty easily,
and we saw a red light coming over and I've done a bit of
flying, and I said oh if we did get a few combat aircraft occasionals
from Manly coming over and it looks like a left one eleven, but it
was a reasonable attitude. It looked like probably about ten thousand feet or so,
and a stranger can't hear it. And as we sort of watched it
go over another or a kid and eventually four or five lights line astern came
across, pretty evenly spaced well came. We watched them go along and they
sort of got probably about twenty or thirty k's away, pretty high up,
and the second light just stopped remained stationary. The others continued after the year.
The second light was stationary for probably about about a minute or so that
then took off at ninety degrees to the original direction it was traveling. In
frustrate and I called the cooling gut of control to her. They'd had other
cause of the sighting, but couldn't explain it. Called the bureau better ology
than next day they said they did have one balloon up in the area,
but they was recovered and that was carrying a white light, not a red
light. So I called the air billy yard of a left base. They
had no scheduled military flights that evening, so it was really quite a frustrating
thing. We just couldn't explain it and couldn't even hear that any sound attached
to the lights. I was walking in from my front gate and deff stepped
on the veranda. I noticed a gold orange light appearing over my neighbor's roof,
and it was on a downward course. It was coming directly towards me,
As my veranda is only about fifteen meters from the neighbor's fence. I
thought, whatever's happening? And it was coming straight down at me, and
I thought, well, this idiot, whatever it is, is going to
crash into my house. And I dashed up the two three steps, grabbed
my glasses to put on, and as I turned around, it went up
through my verandah, almost transparent. And as it raised up, I saw
the undercarriage which appeared to have a couple of small skis on it, and
it was elliptical and shaped the whole UFO or whatever it was, and it
was a gray shadow. And over twenty years ago I saw one go down
past my house or four of us sitting in the den looking out of a
window, and it was about two hundred feet in those days above the main
road, and I called out, look at the flying sauce that was painted
green. It was a shape like an aeroplane, but no wings, and
a fuselage was all lit up inside and there was a very very black personal
object sitting in it. And as I said, look at it, quickly
it just disappeared. And there were reported two hundred sightings at that stage.
I rang the chap here who does the research on them next day and he
said his head over two hundred reports and they my experience was away, Oh
my god, what did they need? The intelligent life are visiting the birth.
One of the most intriguing incidents of recent times occurred on the long flat
stretch of road known as the Nullaboor Highway, which cuts along the bottom of
the Australian continent. It was in nineteen eighty eight that a family of four
set out to drive from Perth to Melbourne in their two leaders sedan. What
they claim happened to them became one of the most sensational UFO cases ever recorded.
John o'cartell, a researcher based in Melbourne, was at the site of
this encounter. Within hours, he takes up the story of what became known
as the Knells case. On the twenties of January nineteen eight, a family
of four that was a mother of cour Fay and her three sons to drive
all the way from Perth to Melbourne in one complete stinteth through our south kilometers
and they experienced this alleged to a phone counter. Now the exposed have started
about one fifty seven am in the morning and went for about a just under
two hours worth of activity, and in that they describe a tremendous amount of
events that occurred to them, starting off with seeing a glowing light in the
middle of the road and then swerving to avoid it. Then the next thing
they remember is this object being on the side of the road and then going
backwards and forwards while this object they claim was chasing them. Then at the
very last moment, as the one they turns back towards Melbourne, they noticed
the car seems to list up and start to fly, and then fake puts
her hand out of the car and catches something on the roof and she was
like a sponge. She scimally rember squeezing it. So it's quite eerie in
the sense, but she put her handback in and wound up the window.
Not long after that occurred, the car filled up with black smoke. They
got the feeling that their head was actually going to explode. They all start
to talk like robots, they said. Then Pat looked over to Sean who
was driving, and Sean was unconscious, apted steering wheel, his hands were
off the stream while his head was down, and the car and their pinion
was still moving. And then they all described the car doing two hundred k
and then suddenly this feeling of being dropped out of the sky, hitting the
ground, the wheel bursting, and then actually spinning off the road and stopping.
Now they actually got out of the car and men to the bush and
watched this object in the distance, with the searchlight following them in the bush
searching for them. Then when that disappeared, they then hopped back in the
vehicle and sped off to the next roadhouse. Now that's when the encounter ends.
When they got there, they had to refill the card because the car
was out of field. Now we did some measurements and we discovered that part
the tank was empty. They'd lost two hundred and six decays. Where a
feel also They describe the encountered ring a sleeping thing. Infect took them two
hours, and the journey should have taken that long. They lost something incredible
amount of time also or the steel, and they still to this day they
cannot recall what happened to them in great detail. One of the other things
I find fascinating about that case is that pretty quickly the federal police became involved.
Now I find that most intriguing. Can you shot any light onto why
the federal police would be called into what looked like a puncher on another ward?
Is it No, it's in crawling. I think what happens on a
lot of these things when they You gotta understand, when the police took that
statement of them, they put themselves in in a position of ridicule them selfiss.
So what we discovered the South Australian Police they wouldn't investigate this case.
They wouldn't get involved because they're crew worried. If they do do that,
they've got positions to uphold. They chasing UFOs, these alleged things that don't
exist. There's pack pays money. So I'll give you a good example of
this. I did a case over called the Melton police encounter which occurred over
just west of Melbourne. There was three or four Divvy vans chasing this UFO.
The area Chief inspector was involved. Was it crew over the prestation the
police officers that made statements. I've got all these statements here, and I
went back there the next day to get some more stacements from these people,
and I had to arm my weight through military peoples, investigating officers. The
Department Transport was there. It was an aerial phenomena. They're all out,
bitch tried to g bug it as quickly as possible. Build Chorker comments,
there is a about three or four different analyses that have been done of that
munderbillar material, and none of it from a chemists point of view, to
my mind, at least anyway argues forcefully for it being alien or really unusual
in nature. Mildly unusual perhaps, but not sufficient to support something truly unknown.
Now, if the analysis had occurred in a carefully controlled fashion early enough,
well then we may have had something really interesting to look at. But
because of the way the whole affair unfolded, tainted by the media circus,
it was not an environment to do scientific working. Nevertheless, the nullable remains
of particular interest to UFO researchers. Contemporary investigators have targeted the region for its
abundance of repeatable phenomena, such as earth lights events which have been linked to
geophysical activity. Like the movement at the cussed scientific data asside is ancient.
Flat space is a continuing source of powerful anecdotal evidence. Those who know this
stretch better than most are the truckees who drive it dozens of times a year.
When I first started doing a nullible pons, I did hear a few
stories, but I was a puttle skeptic at the time. But yeah,
threw things didn't happen to me, which I didn't quite believe at the time.
But after thinking about it and after reflecting back on these stories which showed
from other people, there have been strange happenings, especially around so Jouna,
where at night you'd be traveling and you may be talking to a driver hundreds
of clumblers away, but when you're sort of looking back behind you just to
see if there was anything following you, maybe another truck, maybe a car
who's got a radio that you could talk to, it seems strange that lights
coming up from behind you. We're sort of following. Strangely, most vehicles
following you, whether you're in a car, or in a truck or in
a bus, you will always notice their lights are in your right hand mirror.
But it's very strange when you start to get them on your left hand
side too as well. And to have two lights following behind you, especially
in a semi trailer, you've got no inside rearview mirror. But when you
have a single light on your right hand mirror and a single light on your
left hand mirror, it has either got to be a very wide truck following
you, or a motorbike on your right hand mirror and a motorbike in the
grass following you about the same worth now a truck coming up from behind you.
They will always start to talk to you. But when you get two
lights following behind you, and and they don't advance and they don't fall back,
but it doesn't matter how fast you go, that distance is always maintained,
and so you wonder what is following you. As I got to know
our drivers, they were saying not to stop anywhere near so Juna because of
strange happenings, and that if you go to see strange happenings, don't worry
about it, just keep your foot down and just keep going, going for
it, just to get away from the from the from that area. Could
you be specific about these strange happenings. I mean, there's a truck drive.
You know, a lot of trucks out there that's quite well known use
a number of drugs to keep to their schedules which are quite rigid, and
a lot of the time they're racing against the clock with their load. This
is not something that you dismissed as like a truckie hallucinating or something. The
blokes which which which I normally used to talk to you down and down towards
that way, they weren't heavily into drugs at all. They were family men
too as well. But some of the stories that they were saying, we're
about flickering lights coming up on the inside sort of parallel with them. But
it was only white lights which some of them we were talking about those?
Would we talk about red, green, and blue flickering lights by lights that
were dancing? And now to a most peculiar story last night on the Lonely
Nullabor Plane, an Australian National freight train heading for Western Australia lost power and
finally stopped altogether. It was delayed for two hours, apparently because of mechanical
failure, but the train's crew were convinced the train was stopped by an unidentified
flying object. The drivers were claiming that they saw lights like dancing lights,
moving from either side of the train ahead of them, in a distance ahead
of them. They couldn't be very specific on shapes or sizes of the lights.
It was just probably the best way to describe it would have been a
sensation of light out in front of them. What sort of country were they
in at the time, and what sort of weather was it? They're in
sand June country weatherwise, I am not exactly certain, but there was sand
June country and the track was bending through this hilly, sandy country. Well,
I understand that the train slowed down even though the motor was still going.
Do you know any more about that? Apparently now it seems that they
there had been some problems with the engine. There was a loss of power.
The engine was still running. Bear that in mind. All the way
through this the claim has been made that the engine was running. The whole
way through, but the power wasn't being transferred to the wheels. In the
mid night and night four members of an independent research group are learned, myself
included, spend time on another ball recording related anecdotes. What follows are the
stories of ordinary people who live and work in this remote part of Australia.
We are at the moment Michael's running is cameras on what he called bold,
which I take it his fancy term for time laps. It's got a bold
Britain night with bold mess good b bold. Okay, so what we'd estimated.
It's about eight pm something like that, seven forty eight pm Thursday,
the seventh of July, and we're sitting out for the second night and was
beginning to seem a little futile because for two reasons. Michael spoke today to
Crane and the guy who comes to the gas and he saw this them last
night whilst we were looking straight in that direction with our cameras set up in
our equipment, and we saw nothing. Now, Michael got a bit pragmatic
with him and said to him, listening and what distance was it from the
evening Star, which thinking to him the evening star which spot to start in
the sky. Now we're looking. I can see it right now, and
I can't see a bleeding thing crew nothing, not a unless we're in the
wrong dimension or conscious mode of thinking, I don't know, okay. And
also we've got a story from ros is it. Roslin is the girlfriend of
Troy, and Troy is the rou shooter ru and the rabbit shooter for the
Mundrabilla Homestead, which is a million eights run by Bob and his wife.
Couldn't get her name, No, I didn't. There's two. We saw
them driving a minimke and there must have been no older than teen. Did
you say that? Driving from Troy's house back to the main So you spend
the whole night on your own, Yeah, that's right. It must be
quite a lonely occupation in many ways. Now, yeah, it is a
bit. I've got a radio, and that's I talked to a few fellas
around the other shooters and other station owners and that on the radio, which
makes it a bit better. All right. We're curious about a lot of
the stories that go way way back about this area. They've been odd stories
to do with like min min lights. Have you ever seen anything yourself out
of here falls into that category. The only thing I've ever seen, which
I don't know but it was a UFO or what it was. The only
strange thing I've seen was one night I was out shooting and because your license
for one property is only one shooter, so anyone else is on there is
poaching your land. I've seen lights out there and they were drew east for
me, and I've looked through them and looked at them through the scope for
the rifle, and they come up in two squares, almost like a window
over there were two windows of a house. So I thought for sure that
it must have been a shooter. So I chased after this thing for probably
two hours, and I drive almost to UKLO and I just couldn't get any
closer to it. Each time I stopped and now look at it was still
due east and still just see the two square lights. It said, no
explanation for that whatsoever. No, I've seen a similar things of that when
I was at Royal Inner, but I don't know what it was. It
could have been someone camped or I don't know, you know, he couldn't
really say that it was I and I was talking to another shooter not long
ago, and I asked him just to have the blue boover he had seen
anything strange, and he explained the exact same thing to me. But his
wasn't white light. That one I've seen was white. He's seen orange.
And did he try to chase that of a sustained speed or yeah, he
followed it, or he's seen it in the distance and thinking the same thing
as what I thought it. He thought it was a poacher. He followed
it, and he hit the boundary fence of another station and he couldn't go
any further. But he just couldn't. It was the same thing. It
just seemed to stay the same distance from him, right, It's highly unusual.
I spoke to you yesterday, and you've got a bit of the theory
yourself for a lot of the lights that people see. And it's it's got
something to do with the fact that this land is so flat, so vast,
because it is so flat, and the air seems to be so clear
here, like you can see the stars like here, like I've never seen
anywhere else, you know, I think you get a misconception of distance.
Like the roadhouse, you can see direct light, not just glow a direct
light fifteen kilometers away from it. And well, I've had times when I've
been out shooting and I've seen a flash of light in the sky and thought
that that was someone poaching, and I've sat there and watched it for a
while, and it just keeps flashing in the one spot. And after I
got home how to look at the map, and I was dead in line
of a bend in the highway, and the highway was thirty kilometers away,
and I just put it down to the trucks coming around the corner on the
bend of the highway and the lights just flashing on the horizon. Especially if
you get fog, you can get all the light can take on weird shapes.
I've seen spotlights from other shooters going straight up in the air and you
have the main shaft coming up like a tree trunk, and then when it
hits the fog, that just mushrooms out like almost like a from almost like
a tonic explosion. There. Any other thing that I have seen a lot
of which could explain for a lot of them is meteorites coming through the atmosphere.
I've seen a hell of a lot of them. They're always the same
they've always got a green ball with a green tar with little red sparkles coming
off it. And some of them are dull. Some of them are that
bright that they'll light the field up like a can be a pitch black night
and they'll light the paddy cup like a like as if it's a full moon
night. So they've actually hit on land around here, well, you assume,
but whether they disintegrate before they hit. I found a couple of places
which I've fought with meteorite landings. But when you tell people, they've seem
to look at your strange. But I showed you the photos and of something
I have seen down on the beach. How do you find you know,
people out here pretty open to talk about range things that they see, or
is it something you just pass off as a bit of a joke not really
know it is a fairly big joke because there's been it's been so popular,
Like they have signs on the road and they're saying that this is UFO territory
and that. But I think that alone would probably get a lot of people's
imaginations going. When they see that sign, they start to look for things
that maybe they see that aren't there. Yeah, I can see lots of
things in the visitors book at the roadhouse saying I didn't see ufo on pissed
off. There's heaps of entry like that. The thing that interests me that
I would like to know is there's a fellow in Boulder that died I think
last year, and he was known as a meteorite king, and he found
up to nine thousand meteorites out here on the Nulla Ball. And I'd like
to know why do they land on the Nulla Ball? Why don't they land
in Queensland? Why don't they land in round perf And you've never seen to
hear of anyone even finding I know that way out around anyway. Anyway,
that's about around midnight. We are now seeded about fifty yards away from the
Mundrabillow Roadhouse, which is the roadhouse that the Nobles family drove into after their
incident, just outside of the Jura Pass. Anyhow, that noise you can
hear in the background is the generator that's sort of nicely phase shifting in the
air out here that runs the Maundrabilla Roadhouse. We've been set up here since
five thirty pm waiting for suspected light phenomena that was articulated to us last night
by one of the girls that works in the roadhouse. She saw it the
night before. And we've also spoken to other people over the last day or
sail who who've told us other stories of repeated life phenomena. One that's one
of the locals, the gentleman who's a farmer down the road from here,
calls the evening Star. It's very cold, we're exhausted. It's the time
in the morning where you think, gee, what are we doing as you
apologists? Is this a futile quest, the search for the holy Grail?
But on the other hand, the sky is full of wonders and we're enjoying
those. At the moment. I'm just having a word with Basil and Sheila
here at the Mundrabilla roadhouse, which is the place of the Noels family drove
into and Basil today around lunchtime informed me that he came in very soon after
the Noels incident occurred. Could you just explain a bit about that, Basil,
what you were doing and you were driving the road what eight hours after
it would have been seven or eight hours afterwards we got into Vunderabila here a
little curious. I was filling up with petrol and spoke to the service station
blurk here and asked him what was going on up the road. I think
the sticks in my mind about his account of the business wizard. He said
they had a dog with them and that the dog was literally pushed out as
hard, had forced itself up as hard and as far as it could get
under the driver's feet, and he said he'd never ever seen a dog so
terrified ever before. The ever thing he mentioned was a very very strong smell
of ozone, the which which is a spark you get with electric flashes and
like a guest year ideas talking around further with the many other locals, and
we're displayed it's not a thing. There's jobbed about that match around here.
There's every now and then its apparently some report of something about a bit unusual
camel. Okay, I'm just having a word with Colin Knox, one of
the people who runs the Munderabilla Roadhouse. Do it's a roadhouse? Were motels,
cabin's, caban park, a Mini's, it's a rest stop, restaurant,
hotel, motel right this area. As you'd be well aware because you've
got your teaspoons and your stickers, and everything has been associated for a long
time with everything from the sterious lights to UFOs. I'm just wondering if you
have any stories or you've seen anything yourself in this area in the time you've
been around. Did you used to drive through here? I drove on this
road for twelve years as a driver in an owner driver. For twelve years
I spent out here, right, I suppose one of the interesting things is
just last night and this. We've been in this area now for seven days
looking for anything unusual, and we keep losing it. You know, we're
in somewhere some other positions somewhere else. You guys witnessed something unusual last night
and this guy, could you explain that to it? Yeah, it happened
about seven days ago. We saw the same thing. Was just abother's garment.
Was a bright light and it was turning orange, and at first I
thought it was Dougie the rabbit Shooter, but when I came back here was
still miss sobbing. We didn't have a look, and he said it was
an evening star. But when he changed his back and walk the way,
the evening start disappeared and we all know the evening star don't disappear, it
actually goes down over the back of the horizon. Then we did see it
again last night. It was brought to my attention by other people who own
them own the roadhouse, and I like that side. It was the most
unusual life. It was quite some distance away. What the distance was,
I wouldn't have a clo but because it was a really dark night and there
was no other forms of distraction in the sky, this object was very very
obvious and time. What happened towards the end? Did the object move down
over the escarpment or yeah, well I had to I was sending out as
the road house, and we watched it for quite some time, and I
followed the other ladies more or less two keep an eye on it, and
I dispoted it out. I just weren't so you were ducking in and out
to make sort of the dinners for the evenings watching this thing. Oh absolutely,
I mean life still goes on, no matter WhatsApp happens it. Yes,
otherwise everybody would start. We've heard all these stories. One of them
that we got Bob the probably owned to write down on a map about a
crater that looks like it was dug out of the ground by an earth moving
machine. But there's never been an earth moving machine down in this spot.
It's too remote and there's no reason for it to be there. And so
they both remarked about it. And Bob's a fairly straight sort of guy,
and very straightforward, straightforward, down down the lines of a guy, and
he sort of was keen to write it down on the map and tell us
all about it. I think he's fairly logical, and he's probably seen a
few meteor craters and he doesn't. He thinks it's a very strange crater and
because it has these ridges, and he said, like a like a grad
has been through it, but I can't understand why one would be down there.
That's a very large hole in the ground. So that's that's quite near
the water, that's off the road towards the bike. Yeah, anyway,
we're going to go down and have a little bit of lust falling start there.
Mister m I don't know, I've got this overwhelming thing, you know.
Are we being head on by the community around here? Are they all
pulling our league? Because there's a lot of stories and a lot of leagues
to pull who knows, because they're not forthcoming with heaps of information. And
that's probably because no one ever stays more than one day. And if they
do, then they work on the property, yeah, or something, you
know, in the roadhouse, the road hid. I still going to get
their trust. It takes a while. That's just just murder time made a
big right and just having a word with Bob, who runs the Mundrabilla homestick,
Could you tell us a bit about this property, Bob? And when
you came here. We came here about eight years ago. There's been several
instances here that were reported as vehicles being picked up and this type of thing.
But there could be another theory there too, that the person had driven
from Esperance, which is nine hours from here, and it was at the
time of the year when we were experiencing fogs and they could have just played
run off the road. They were too they were terrified. I know they
were terrified. You don't leave your luggage behind all you You know. He
has it that there was nothing in that, but I don't agree. That
was actually only seven kilometers from your seven kilometers west from here, and I
was actually not here at the time, because I'd caught a bus that night
to Perth, and I rang home next day to say that I'd arrive safely.
And Lassie asked me if I'd read the papers, because all hell had
broken those here there were federal police. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know that the witch's hats on the road, and for weeks
afterwards, the bus has roast in on it. They'd stop at the actual
site and everybody would get out and investigate. And I one account, one
of the passengers said to another year, so I can feel it, feel
it. You could feel it, can't you as if there were still a
presence there. There is a guy that was working out here for some time.
He was certainly hooked on them, and he used to sit in them
dark in the middle of the night and he's you and wait for them to
cabin. But did you get a clay success, Yes, yes he did.
He believe he was in the right spot, was inducing them from concentrating
or I think, well, no, he believed that they might come and
get him. Even one day, I think that he was reported as saying
to his wife, if I if I ever disappeared totally, you know,
that they've come to take me. Was that in this region to him when
he was doing Yes, it was, Liz, I'm curious that he you
say, you know about the Knowles case, but do you think there's something
sort of because originally when we came to speak to Bob, I was telling
him they're very close to that time, there were two other cases the book
quietly exactly and on the same evening of the Niles of business there were sightings
weren't there at at sea all over the place. There is an interesting thing
that I witnessed years ago. I was at a barbecue in Broken Hill and
it was at the home of a mine manager, and there were mine managers
from several other mines there at the same time. It was a very pleasant
evening, and there was a light in the sky and there was absolute silence,
and these mine managers said, after the light had disappeared after about ten
minutes of moving in the sky, it's following the lines of load, the
mineral lines of load. And that was something that's always stuck with me.
And whether there was some magnetic field that was attracting it to follow these lines
of load, or whether it was an exploratory thing from somewhere who knows the
words science, rather than saying all these managers had listening at the same time.
It was early in the evening, they weren't. There's a chance,
in critics, the chance increase. These drums are like that too, I
think Dunderberg, Well, i'm can induce aerial phenomenal to sometimes I believe it
can. But in fact there was a station and a fielder along the track
after the knowle's business, and he was offering overnight accommodation, and he'd throw
the bandy in and he could guarantee that they'd see a lot, but would
have been old Allan Stewart. He didn't believe. It's so strong, isn't
it. It is totally wish I drew a hole in his face where they
plugged in d strength or the guy got zapped, that guy that got Zepp
work for us. You lose because I was away, He would terrified.
It was daylight. Yeah, where to go? I don't know how.
He had skin off his hands trying to get back into the vehicle. His
hands were all bleeding, so prompt. Yeah, No, it was a
bit of a girl different, different. Yeah, he was a handsome,
young blake, and he set out the door, his heart a flutter for
the time that he was here, but he was terrified. He saw a
light and he saw a craft hovering. Following afternoon, I heard the car
of his black vehicle. I heard it coming and the speed I thought he
was going to go off the edge of this scartman terrified? Was he absolutely
absolutely couldn't talk. But yeah, because I don't disbelieve, I've got to
admit, it's just it's just too much too It happens too often still somehow
just doesn't seem to be long, but as it's full of things that doble
on. The apparently benign and curious nature of many of these experiences can be
misleading. The increase of reported encounters that involve abductions and even internal examinations are
obviously at the most contentious end of the spectrum. They also tend to be
the most easily ridiculed by the popular media. Whatever the reality of these reports,
the fact remains that a significant number of individuals from a variety of backgrounds
have undergone an experience which has left from traumatized and isolated. Are did you
very tended the chance in che I know I think in my head, all
right, all right, wowky, al right, Okay, I'm mistously.
Our program finishes with a dramatic personal story from a woman involved in an incident
which took place in the Dandenong Foothills of Victoria in August of nineteen ninety three.
What is significant about Kelly Carl's story is that it was verified several months
later by an independent series of witnesses with whom she had never been in contact.
He's Kelly's experience into her own words. And I was witnessed to a
very big, should I say, craft which had landed in a field on
the side of a country's Victorian road. And I was also witnessed to what
appeared to be I guess I could say a group of non human entities.
I wasn't the only witness. Another car was three other people when it pulled
up behind us about a hundred meters down the road, and they got out
across the road the same as I did. Apparently all they consciously remember was
seeing the craft, a whole head of tall black beings, and then hearing
a humming noise and blacking out and finding themselves back in their car again.
I have a little more conscious recollection than that, But because time doesn't allow
it, I won't go into details, but I will say that the fear
that I felt that night was something that I could never have believed the human
being capable of feeling. I was absolutely terrified. There were physical marks left
on it reached three of us. I think the most extraordinary one on myself
was a red triangle beneath my navel, which was there for about three or
four months later on. There was also physical traces discovered on the actual field
in soil samples and magnetometer readings, so this was definitely a physical event.
I thought at first, I just thought I was going nuts. But it
wasn't until the other people in the other car reported the incident several months after
I did, that I was finally able to quite regain my sanity. I
mean, I wasn't going crazy up for all, not unless three complete strangers
were going crazy along with me. We were all researched separately the day place,
and ever our drawings of the craft and the beings coincided, and this
in itself with saying something because the beings we saw weren't the mass media circulated
little gray things but sixty seven foot tall and black and really only heard of
in research circles. All I could remember, actually at first was seeing this
craft hovering above the road, which my husband saw as well, and then
a couple of kilometers down the road driving into this bright light, and then
totally excited, being a generaline pumping, and then all of a sudden nothing
and arguing with my husband all the way home, I feel like I've had
a blackout when we're going to see a UFO and he's saying, I think
so. And we really didn't know what happened, and it wasn't until I
mean well, when I got home that evening, I had the triangular mark
on my body and I'd also started bleeding, which ended up putting me in
hospital three and a half weeks later. It was an infection in the room,
which is well, not a normal female gynological problem. You either have
to have had pregnancy which is self terminated, or from recent surgery, and
I've had neither and or the pregnancy tests and everything came back negative. As
I knew that I would so here if that was quite unusual. But it
wasn't until rapter On in September that I was actually able to remember what happened
between that light and sitting in the car feeling very strange and asking my husband
what happened here? Anyway, I think almost with myself that the hardest thing
I've think I've had to deal with it is always having to be very careful
about who I was frequently, and that really bugs me. Why should I
have to hide the truth from people? I mean, if I had witnessed
a stabbing in a back alley, but no one would doubt my word at
all. But because the topic is UFOs people, how if we think that
you deluded. I've always been a very logical, even possibly cynical person to
get with anything to do with strange phenomena. But I've had a first day
experience here. It's literally turn my logic insight out. I question everything now.
I question whether everything I've been taught and brought up to believe is actually
truth or not. This was not supposed to happen, This was not supposed
to be something that was real, yet it was. Therefore, I suppose
my whole attitude towards everything in my life has changed. Well, something is
going on, and it is real. It's very very real. There are
hundreds of abductees in the strandom and every year literally thousands of USO starting to
report it. I guess all I could really say is, wake up Australia.
This is an American fantasy. It's an Australian reality. Kelly's case is
now part of ongoing study being conducted by Bill Chalker and the J. Allen
Heenick Center for UFO Studies in Chicago. Well late twentieth century society is to
maintain a respectable distance from such accounts. For Kelly and the many like her,
it remains the challenge of coming to terms with an irreversible shift in their
perception of the world circular. Well, thank you for your patients. You
have actually lived through to catch a Flying Style. They've brought back so many
memories. I was starting getting quite emotional there. Produced by Matthew Leonard for
Radio I on Radio National here part of the Australian Broadcasting Commission in the mid
nineties. Music done by Anthony mart and myself, not even under the moniker
of Jake Kats then, although we were using Jake Kats and our sound subsduction
nights and dramas. Yeah, So anyway, an incredible radio program. We
thank you for your patients to sit through that. So the first time we've
done well our podcast without pictures really for that main half, would you like?
It? Did bring a few things back from that time on the Nulla
ball and this tea towel's bleeding through the green but you can see what is
actually a sign that yeah, yeah, you can see that sign. Yeah,
that's yeah, that's the sign. Anyway, next one hundred and eleven
kilometers you're going to experience UFO phenomena, very Australian and beautifully rendered there on
that tea towel from the Nulla ball. So Anthony mar Michael Williams did infrared
photography, so I said before you can check out that incredible issue of Times
issued two hundred and thirteen, the wonderful weakness of alls Michael's peaches in there.
And I think what we should do is quickly hit out maybe ship promo
is episode five. Hey, Untold Radio Network fans want exclusive perks and to
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League Legimate Science, Doug nearly Losti's life last week's flowing out of a remote
location shooting Legiment Science too, and boys, that can be an exciting documentary
between careful people. Be careful out there in the remote wilderness, well apart
from you know, just pondering there what Philip K. Dick could have been
on about. And I think maybe what we should do is get David's for
us all from Snog and Black Long and he had an incredible lecture for us
and UFO researched in South Wales where he spoke about AI and the computer basically
being the alien invasion. And he was heavily into the work of Philip K.
So maybe we'll get him to expound in one of our future episodes.
Very interesting, Okay, all right, we will be back next weeks.
More hopefully with Dean Bennett hopefully. Thank you so much for your patience.
That's the first time we did radio without pitches. That's right, you're untold
radio. This is down to South normally is My name is Jay Katz,
sometimes Jamie leonarda and well before wife has to see and we'll be back next
week with more, much love,