WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:11.080 This is pod Popular podcast for the People, the Great Love Debate. It's 2 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:17.559 the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a great loved bab 3 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:22.399 Hi again everyone, It's Brian Howie. Welcome to the Great Love Debate, 4 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:28.120 the world's number one dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I am here 5 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:32.119 in the very fine studios of Pod Populi, podcast for the People. I 6 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.719 am back at the one in Scottsdale, Arizona. It is very very early. 7 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:40.840 It's a very early desert morning in the gloaming as they say, so 8 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:44.799 you get me, get just me today. Uh. And I know one 9 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:50.000 of the the fundamental tenets of podcasting, which which I do subscribe to and 10 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:54.920 I preach to people whose podcasts I help produce, is to always keep your 11 00:00:55.000 --> 00:01:00.000 content evergreen. Meaning if you're listening to this, if you're listening to this 12 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.040 within you know, four minutes of an episode dropping, which some of you 13 00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:07.920 are, or four years after it drops, the content of what I'm talking 14 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:14.920 about still has to have relevancy. So I'm gonna bend the rules on that 15 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:19.200 at TAD because I'm gonna reference something that happened within a few days of me 16 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.680 recording this. But it triggered something that I think has a bigger purpose in 17 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:27.239 conversation and meeting, and I think you're gonna find relevancy in it no matter 18 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:32.239 when you are listening. So the means do justify the ends, or the 19 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.879 ends do justify the means one of the two. So a few days ago, 20 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:42.280 as of this moment, this morning, Sandra Day O'Connor died. So 21 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:47.239 those of you who don't know who she was, she was the first female 22 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:52.760 Supreme Court justice back in the eighties because Reagan imported her. So it's back 23 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:56.719 then, and that is always an accomplishment that will be ever green. She 24 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:00.799 will have that in her oh bit and in her bio forever. And she 25 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:06.799 served in that position for about twenty five years, and that position is normally 26 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:14.639 a lifetime commitment, but she left after two and a half decades to spend 27 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:20.560 more time with and to care for her husband of more than forty years, 28 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:27.960 the love of her life, because he was suffering from Alzheimer's. And this 29 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.360 is one of the first circumstances where we started to have a conversation in this 30 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:35.319 country about about Alzheimer's back then. It's a very public thing. She stepped 31 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:38.479 down from a Supreme Court justice to care for this husband. So you might 32 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:42.439 think, as you're listening, is this a health episode? This is a 33 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:46.439 podcast about love and relationships. I think you'll see the relevancy here, so 34 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:51.080 stick with me. So, after a few years of trying to care for 35 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:59.719 her husband, it became beyond her capacity, and Justice O'Connor's husband, he 36 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:04.599 was aered into a facility to get full time professional care, and she kept 37 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:09.719 visiting him just about every day. But it got to the point where his 38 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:16.919 Alzheimer's he no longer recognized her, but she kept visiting him even after that, 39 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:22.639 to the point where she went to the facility and one day she noticed 40 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:29.120 that he was spending a great time with and was apparently completely smitten with another 41 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:35.520 woman, which has got to be one of the strangest feelings and complicated bunch 42 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:42.520 of emotions. Ever, he doesn't recognize her, but she's gonna he's with 43 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:49.120 her. She couldn't be mad at him, I guess you know, she 44 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.680 could be frustrated with the fact that he could he could still feel and express 45 00:03:52.919 --> 00:04:00.280 emotion, just not to her. And I guess you know she apparently she 46 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.280 could be happy that he that he loved that her loved one, the love 47 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:09.759 of her life, felt this happiness and peace even if it was with someone 48 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:15.560 who wasn't her after all these years, his last days, months or whatever, 49 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:20.879 where him feeling some bond with somebody who wasn't her. And the whole 50 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:25.519 story is I was reading it, and it was and it was sort of 51 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:29.279 made public by, of all people, Patty Davis, who is Ronald Reagan's 52 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.879 daughter, and she had heard it from Senator Dee O'Connor's son. They felt 53 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:39.000 this kinship over Alzheimer's because Ronald Reagan had a tune whatever. And the son 54 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.079 revealed that this is what his mother was going through, that she goes into 55 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:46.759 the facility and she sees that her husband is having a relationship with another woman. 56 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.199 And I, you know, when I when I read it, I 57 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:55.560 was like, I had probably the same reaction as Justice O'Connor did, namely, 58 00:04:55.680 --> 00:05:00.079 what the fuck? And then I thought about, which is why we're 59 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:06.360 here this morning, What is our obligation? What does it mean to love 60 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:15.439 forever and quote unquote unconditionally, and how do we deal with life and matrimonial 61 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:23.439 curveballs? And sadly, Justice O'Connor, a few days ago died of Alzheimer's, 62 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:29.839 and her husband ultimately did die of it too, possibly in the arms 63 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:33.839 of another woman, and obviously the president who appointed her, Ronald Reagan, 64 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:38.279 he famously suffered from it as well. It's such a devastating thing that a 65 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:42.519 lot of you guys have had a parent or loved one suffer from Alzheimer's, 66 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:47.720 dementia, all of these things where the mind goes, possibly before the heart 67 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:58.680 can go, And it is about as frustrating and confusing and heartbreaking condition as 68 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.560 you could possibly imagine. So I want to think about that, and the 69 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:06.879 obligation and the partnership. So I pulled up the wording, the exact wording 70 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:14.839 of excuse me of the I guess the most traditional of vows, the wedding 71 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:19.319 vows, the one that to this day, probably two thirds of marriages begin 72 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:27.160 with, I take you to be my husband wife, to having to hold 73 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:31.040 from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for 74 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:38.560 poor, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish till death 75 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:44.680 do us part. And that's some serious shit, if you think about it. 76 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:49.120 That's a serious oath, especially the death part. There's no wiggle room 77 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:54.000 for we're going to be gather for eternity or afterlife or reincarnation. In that 78 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:58.199 sentence, that is that is our end of the road. And I've obviously 79 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:02.639 never said those words until just now because I've never been married. But I 80 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:09.519 do believe in the fundamental premise of them, even though I don't necessarily believe 81 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:16.439 in quote unquote unconditional love. There are always conditions. And when you say 82 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:23.959 these words, sure, they're basically saying we're going to stick together through the 83 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:30.399 tough times. That's what they're saying. But how tough, career, job 84 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:41.639 loss, addiction, infidelity, emotional instability, all of it, All of 85 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:45.759 it has its qualifiers. So that's what I want to get into. I 86 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:47.879 want to take a bit of a dive on all of this, but I 87 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:49.800 got to take a quick break, and I hope you stay with me for 88 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:53.920 better or for worse, for richer, for poor, And if I don't 89 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:58.480 hear from our sponsors, we will definitely be poorer. So we will be 90 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:09.759 back right after this, and we are back now. Me I've been somebody 91 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:15.680 who has always believed that you as much as possible, you've got to stick 92 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:20.680 through your partner's shit as long as four things happen. I think four things 93 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:26.959 have to happen for you to stand by or stick with your partner when something 94 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:33.080 comes up. I think they have to own their shit. I think they 95 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:39.679 have to demonstrate that they are working on their shit. I think they have 96 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:46.480 to be seriously remorseful about the situation that led to their shit, and that 97 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:52.919 they understand the effect that their shit has had on the relationship. And I 98 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:58.080 think that those four things can get you through a whole lot of stuff and 99 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:03.000 at least find the both of you at a place where you can see some 100 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:09.559 light or some possibility to get through it to continue. Because if this person 101 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:13.399 did or didn't do something simply because they no longer cared about you, or 102 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:18.639 they're completely indifferent about the effect on you, or they never really cared about 103 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:22.799 it, I think at least two of those conditions won't apply. They probably 104 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:28.679 won't work on it, and they probably won't own it, and they don't 105 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:31.559 really give a shit how it affects you. So let me circle back to 106 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:39.120 the Sanderdale O'Connor situation for a second. Was her husband consciously or subconsciously always 107 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:45.080 craving attention and affection from another woman and once the part of his brain that 108 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:50.600 could could reason with or suppress that stopped functioning. Was he suddenly liberated to 109 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.799 seek love somewhere else? I don't know. I don't know if she thought 110 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.159 about that. She's a very smart woman, the Supreme Court justice, I 111 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:03.759 mean, and I hope she didn't have to spend time thinking about that or 112 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:07.240 overthinking it, because the why of it all and the when did this start 113 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:13.759 or how did this happen? That will kill you. So back to the 114 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:20.440 vows for a second. If two thirds of the people getting married are saying 115 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:24.240 these words and the other third of you, I've been to some of your 116 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:28.919 weddings and heard some of your original vows, and all I have to say 117 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:33.799 is, yikes, you guys are some of you are not great at the 118 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:39.039 vows. Stick to the script, stick to those I think. But anyway, 119 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:45.120 if two thirds of the people are saying the traditional words, what percentage 120 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:50.600 of them have thought about what they really mean and are truly prepared to go 121 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:58.799 the distance, no matter what better or worse. I hope lots. I 122 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.840 mean, I hope lots mean because I'm sort of romantic that way, and 123 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:05.519 I do believe in one guy and one girl, if it's right, forever 124 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:09.399 and beyond caveat is always if it's right. But I think that should be 125 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:11.200 the goal of both of you when you say it, we are taking this 126 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.279 leap, and it is into decades together and a life together, and a 127 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:22.559 life together that's going to be filled with at best twist and turns. And 128 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.480 you're probably like, but you've never been married, Brian Howie, doesn't mean 129 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:31.919 I don't believe it and still aspire to it. You've heard me on this 130 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.679 podcast many times talk about when people get divorced, and I always ask them, 131 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.159 not when did you know the marriage was over? I asked them, 132 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:46.600 when did you know it wasn't going to last forever? And I'm always astounded 133 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:52.799 by how many, especially women, give the answer when he proposed or before 134 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:58.759 we got married. And so if that's the case, clearly the richer and 135 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:05.240 the poor thing wasn't gonna be a deal breaker. You know, richer one 136 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:11.840 of you will probably leave poor. You almost assuredly gonna leave sickness and in 137 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.679 health, you know. I think people do understand that should be a fundamental 138 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.720 part of your commitment to each other. If one gets ill or God forbid, 139 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:24.840 incapacitated. Don't those vows create kind of this oral oath of I'm not 140 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:31.320 leaving you no matter what, and I'm gonna visit you at that care facility, 141 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.960 even if you're holding hands with another woman, because you don't really know 142 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:39.840 what you're doing, and you can say to me, ah, that's easy 143 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.320 for you to say, you know till you've faced it. Yeah, all 144 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.480 of us, damn right, You're probably right. None of us can really 145 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.960 know how we're gonna act in a situation where when confronted with the reality of, 146 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:56.960 oh, this is it. You know, I personally have stuck with 147 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:01.200 a whole lot of relationships with partners who are, no doubt struggling with some 148 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:07.480 things, all sorts of things emotionally and physically. And I do think that's 149 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:13.320 the obligation of being a partner, whether it's your actual spouse or not. 150 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.240 It says I've got you and we've got this together. I think that's the 151 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:22.559 very best part of a relationship is being able to say that and feel that. 152 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.720 I don't think there's anything more romantic than that, and I don't think 153 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:35.759 there's anything more bonding than getting through the storm together. But all sorts of 154 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:43.000 things can change all sorts of things. So when you're saying those words on 155 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:48.240 the altar or wherever you're having your ceremony, you got to think, are 156 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.679 they just words rooted in tradition or are you really giving some thought and commitment 157 00:13:52.720 --> 00:14:00.960 to the meaning and some meaning to the commitment. I mean, you got 158 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.360 two hundred friends and families at the ceremony, you know, waiting to get 159 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:09.159 to the bar and the reception. So I suppose listing off a bunch of 160 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.000 well, unless this happens, you know, qualifiers, It isn't really a 161 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:18.440 solid recipe for a fun wedding or probably a lasting marriage. But is there 162 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.080 any thought given in the moment of what you are prepared to deal with? 163 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:30.679 Everyone can do the honeymoon and the house hunting and the gift receiving and the 164 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:39.320 pro creating and all the fun stuff, But not everyone can deal with the 165 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:45.879 emotional breakdowns and the problem children and the midlife crisis and the meddling in laws, 166 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:50.919 and the gambling addiction and the and the hot nanny and the handsome tennis 167 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.039 coach and the job loss and I don't know, insecurity, impotence, infidelity, 168 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:01.600 anything else that might come up, and there's obviously a million examples of 169 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:07.240 oh my god, fuck that obviously I would be out, And there was 170 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.600 also the obvious of course I would take care of them or stick with them 171 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:18.159 through this and that, you know, But a circumstance like what happened with 172 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:26.919 the O'Connors, she did continue to visit. Would you would you be like, 173 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.879 this doesn't make me feel right, but I'm going to be there for 174 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:33.080 him till the end, no matter what, because I don't know what they're 175 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:35.919 going through and I just have to be there, because that's the commitment I 176 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:43.080 made every time you visited. Would you beat yourself up trying to find explanations 177 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.399 or would you be selfless enough in the moments to be like, it doesn't 178 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:50.919 matter what it means for me. I care about what this means for him 179 00:15:52.279 --> 00:16:00.480 and to him, and I'm gonna be there for him. To think about 180 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.000 things like what if I stop visiting and then this part of the brain does 181 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.840 remember me and wonders where I've been all this time? And who is this 182 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.799 new woman holding his hand? What if the brain clicks back on I don't 183 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:18.960 know. The diseases is an unpredictable thing, or is it like Helen Hunt 184 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:22.000 and Tom Hanks and Castaway she thought he was dead in in order to heal, 185 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:26.039 she had to move on, I think too quickly, but as quickly 186 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:36.200 as possible. So when does self preservation kick in over any sort of matrimonial 187 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.919 obligation. These are tough questions, and I think every circumstance an example does 188 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:45.559 have some nuance, and the answers aren't always easy to come by. So 189 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:51.639 I guess I'm just curious as to about how much thought, if you've gotten 190 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.200 married or gotten divorced or in a relationship, have you given to it, 191 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.159 And how much thought is even healthy to give, because you could you could 192 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:03.039 drive yourself nuts think about every single scenario and you probably wouldn't even come close 193 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:08.240 to thinking of ninety percent of them. I personally think if you love them 194 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:15.599 and they love you, you are together pretty much no matter what, even 195 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.599 the hard part. But I guess the details are in your different definition of 196 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:27.920 pretty much. Life's hard and love is one of the hardest aspects of that 197 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:37.039 hard life because there's no straight path and there are no assured outcomes. But 198 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:44.279 I think there can be a happily ever after, which is the you know, 199 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.240 leads into the misnomer of the hopeless romantic. The hopeless romantics are the 200 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:56.480 ones who are absolutely riddled with hope. And I think if you're in and 201 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.799 you hope for the best and try to navigate the worst, I think that's 202 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.240 it, which really isn't a bad way to end your vows. I love 203 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:08.200 you, you love me. Let's hope for the best and try to navigate 204 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.920 the worst. May you kiss the bride. Let's get to it. Try 205 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.759 that on for size, at least as a philosophy. You engage with age 206 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:18.200 couples out there, and there are a lot of you, because a lot 207 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.559 of you email us and tell us you you got engaged after meeting one of 208 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:30.480 our great love debate shows. You are welcome very much. Have just have 209 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.880 that conversation with your partner to be. Don't list all the well I think 210 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.440 I'd be okay with this, but not if you do that. It's not 211 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:42.519 about the details. It's about the philosophy and the understanding of where you are 212 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:48.599 as a couple and where you want to be till death to you part. 213 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.519 We're going to give it all and we're going to try the fuck out of 214 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:56.319 this marriage for as long as we can. And with everything we have. 215 00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:59.319 And if you're like, well, no, I'm going to give it about 216 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:03.559 eighty percent, because this I think is my starter marriage and in my thirties, 217 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.240 I'm gonna get it right. Please don't go through with it. That's 218 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.960 my advice to you. I think you have to be prepared to go hard, 219 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:17.200 go all out, leave everything on the table, gas in the tank, 220 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.759 whatever metaphor you want to use, and hope for the absolute best. 221 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:26.359 The old baseball saying lots of people can hit the fastball, it's dealing with 222 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.400 the curveball. That's where the talent lies. That's where the payoff is. 223 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:34.440 And together, I think you're gonna have to try and handle the curves. 224 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:41.119 And you got to recognize that going in. Every couple can do the easy 225 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:47.839 part, can you do the hard parts. And if at the end of 226 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:52.160 the day your best wasn't good enough, oh well your best was good enough, 227 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.000 maybe not for the marriage, but for you. And you could say 228 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:02.000 the vows mattered and I met them. The death was of the relationship and 229 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:08.960 thus you parted the end, but you gave it a full go. So 230 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.480 I'm not saying you need to put all your chips on the table. And 231 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.000 give all the love and get nothing back. And I'm not saying you need 232 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:19.160 to give love to somebody who's clearly gone or clearly not worthy of it from 233 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:25.359 you, or they're just absent from any aspect of reality. They're just they're 234 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:29.160 not on the same page and they never will be. And that can change 235 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:33.039 two days or twenty years into a relationship. It can change. What I'm 236 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:41.000 saying is to find some initial sincerity and some real intent into what this commitment 237 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:47.960 means to the marriage and to each other, for better or worse, to 238 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:51.880 have and to hold, to love and to cherish. Because I think that's 239 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.839 worth saying, and if it's worth saying, I think it's worth having. 240 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.160 So I've made a commitment to you, Great Love listeners, and with that 241 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:08.079 we have lasted way, way longer than statistically most marriage. As we are 242 00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:14.680 entering our eleventh season of our live tour schedule, we have been all over 243 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:18.119 the world. We are kicking off our eleventh season with our tenth anniversary show, 244 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.839 so we close out ten years kick off the eleventh year. I think 245 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:26.319 it's February sixth, something like that again, Evergreen check the calendar. Great 246 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.599 Lovedebate dot Com. It is at the Boca black Box Center for the Arts 247 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:33.799 in bulk Raton, Florida. Tickets are are on sale at Great Lovedebate dot 248 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.240 com or Boca Blackbox dot com. Every week I'm like, let's the exact 249 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.319 date. I should probably look it up. I'm asking you to look it 250 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:44.640 up. I'll look it up. Go to Great Love Debate at gmail dot 251 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:49.119 com. Send us your thoughts on this or anything else. Please like, 252 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:53.440 share, follow, and review this podcast eleven ten. Whatever you want to 253 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.640 say. Years in your reviews still mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem, 254 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:03.799 because so death to us part As always at the Great Love Debate, we 255 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:14.599 never stop making love. See you next time the Great Love Debate. It's 256 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:21.039 the Great Love Debate. Degreet Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.