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Third lap the podcast with Alejandro Gaviria
and Ricardo Silva Romero, a podcast from

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the locutorio shoots the locutorio of that
one. For me, maybe he'

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s got a great aspiration as an
inventor of fictions It' s been to

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find a character who gets out of
the books. I am impressed, for

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example, by Pinocchio, Peter Pan, Frankenstein, The Quijote of Hamlet,

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who in general people know who they
are without having to read the books.

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By the way I reminded you of
a phrase by an American prison science writer

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from champ that says or puts to
say one of his characters all, absolutely

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to everyone we invent homeland stories of
us. That also portrays life. Okay.

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Alejandro. I greet this time because
I have been thinking that while we

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meet again next week, after these
agitated days that have had us both in

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a thousand things. It would be
interesting to think of which fictional characters have

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served us in life to understand things
or to get out of trouble, which

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fictional characters come to mind constantly,
as companies, even as advisers, as

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examples. Then of course the great
fictional characters who come from multiple places of

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drama, comedy, novel, story, painting, film, television, comic,

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have some archetypes and remind one of
a certain way, the tarot that

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one creates by portraying letter by letter, the possibilities of oneself, the ways

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in which one can fall according to
circumstances. For me, perhaps the great

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aspiration as an inventor of fictions has
been to find a character who gets out

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of the books. I' m
impressed, for example, by Pinocchio,

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Peter Pan, Frankenstein, The Hamlet
Quijote, which in general, people know

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who they are without having to be
read. Books transcend the stories they star

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in, they become archetypes, figures
to which people resort without having to know

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their stories. Therefore, the first
character I mention is that Pinocchio, who

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is a fundamental character and who,
thanks to the re- reading that makes

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poloster of him, because one understands
much better the idea of being a real

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child or a real person and having
to have rescued the father, that is,

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to have been the father himself to
become, to graduate from being human.

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It seems to me like a masterful
summary, a huge finding, almost

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like a scientific finding that leaves me
unspoken every time I have it close to

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me. I' ve read that
novel, I' ve seen the movies,

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and it seems to me that pinocho
is the great find he' s

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given to someone who makes fictions.
It is an extraordinary summary of the orphanhood

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we all feel and the need we
have to find within ourselves, our own

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security. Hi, Ricardo. We
resorted again to Whatsapp' s audio exchange

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to keep our weekly conversation alive in
the third round. This week, as

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well said, we were a busy
week from here to there and we could

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not meet before we began the conversation
on the subject that proposes, about fictional

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characters, fictional characters that have become, that become already part of humanity.

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I want to congratulate you on the
publication of Alpe de West, your latest

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book, your latest novel. I' m going to read it that I

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have it with me and invite all
the third- round listeners, who listen

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to us from the return to read
it. You can also add a rich

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character to the characters that mention these
mythical fictional characters that have transcended the books

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and that, as I said,
are part of humanity. But nothing more

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disturbing, and I want to do
so by taking advantage that now, in

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August of this year, one hundred
years after the death of novelist Joseph Conrat,

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In my opinion, one of the
novelists, among modern quotation marks,

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most important. Conrat published in nineteen
hundred and three a novel that has since

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captured the imagination of human beings,
the heart of the ten nebls. The

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novel describes a journey through the dark
rivers of the Belgian cone in the 19th

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century, until reaching our character,
an enigmatic ivory merchant who wanted to bring

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civilization to the natives, but ended
up exterminating them. A character who is

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described by his last words, the
two words he utters before his death,

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which is horror, horror. A
character who sums up that Conradian idea that

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there is no history of humanity,
a very great distance between civilization and barbarism.

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This mythical character already Kuritz has transcended
the books. Many of those who

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hear us in the third round will
have seen the film Revelation know that premiered

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in a thousand nine hundred and seventy- nine, which describes the same journey

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yanó for the Congo way IgA,
but in Vietnam, and which describes the

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same character, in this case,
Colonel Kurutz, which summarizes that terrifying,

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horrifying part. Let' s say
something like that about the human soul and

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it has since become one of these
mythical characters of literature. He spoke before

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Pinocchio and is Pinocchio one of those
characters like Peter Pan not Frankenstein, who

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are voices and are spirits that we
all carry inside, like the mythical characters

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of all mythology, like icaro or
like Neas, or like orpheus or like

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Achilles or Ulysses, characters that do
what we do, warn us what we

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are going to do at some point
in life. But there is a character

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who at first sounds more prosaic,
less mythical, more particular, more contextualized.

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Let' s say that he is
Holden Coffield, the protagonist of the

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guardian among rye, which for me
is very important and summarizes me all the

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great initiation characters and great teenagers with
which one can give in books if pinocho

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is the orphanhood that we all have
to solve. I broke the fury,

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the exasperation, the indignation at the
world they brought us to. He is

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a teenager who is discovering, who
was deceived, who painted a life that

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did not exist and who is throwing
his monologue in a rage to respond to

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that injustice, the injustice of growing
up in a world that has so many

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interesting traps. What Richard did about
Holden Kouldfield is a rabid thing that becomes

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our own voice as a fictional character
that we somehow make our own. I

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didn' t read the guardian in
wanting us to, being a teenager.

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The ten years later, already twenty- nine or thirty years, he was

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studying a doctorate in economics dedicated to
other things. His voice was cautious,

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of course, but I didn'
t have that immediate identification that had his

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ginte you' re Act that without
When I first read at Andrés Caisero School,

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I remember finding in a trunk in
my grandmother' s house, a

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handcrafted edition, the crossed one.
I also remember reading that he saw the

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music, finding that kind of identity. I remember from those readings then a

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phrase by Andrés Caisedo. I hate
it because I' m fighting for it.

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Or another voice that also made its
own and is a somewhat strange voice

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Ricardo, because he is a character
who is in turn author. It is

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the voice of Fernando Vallejo, of
his self fictions, autofections that make an

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important part of Colombian literature during the
last forty or fifty years. That child

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who describes Vallejo, that child who
fills his head with things without knowing what,

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that nostalgic one who visits the paradise
of his childhood, that distressed existentialist,

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that loving sadrop that I say.
I don' t know if God

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or evolution or the one who created
all this was thinking about whatever it was.

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He' s a very chambonous workmaster. To me, this with old

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age and death, it does not
serve me that love life that says that

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time, old age and death are
the same thing. I have here I

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took it for Azara in my library
the Gift of Life, published in nineteen

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hundred and ten. It' s
this voice of Vallejo' s autopectations that

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has captivated me ever since. How
many times you haven' t touched the

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love at your door and you didn' t see it because of those blouses

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of yours you know you didn'
t. Love is a one- way

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chimera, like the arrow that has
only one tip one two. When you

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have seen an arrow that goes there
come love is to give it, not

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to ask for it. He doesn' t ask for love from him.

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He' s got it And if
he doesn' t, then he doesn

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' t. That voice of Fernando
Vallejo has been to me one of the

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fictional characters. In this case of
self- fiction more as we said most

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influential in my readings of the last
thirty years. He spoke before holding Coffield,

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the protagonist of the guardian among rye, which is a way of saying

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that lucid teenage voice, which is
in the center of the island of the

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Treasury, of the lord of flies
or of Boby Dinghan or of the graduate.

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And then I began to think of
the character that has impacted me the

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most in adult life, which is
the Count of Montecristo, which is something

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similar to pinocho in the sense that
it portrays our vocation to invent ourselves.

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But it goes a little further and
shows us the effort to simulate ourselves before

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others, to create our own mythology, to disguise ourselves and fill ourselves with

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tixies of appearances to survive a particularly
harsh world in the Count Christ can find

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one from Gatsby to Indiana Jones.
You can see Don Draper de madment or

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godfather Corleone there. People who create
themselves almost in costumes and who baptize themselves

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to face the world and how to
avenge themselves and who have something tragic about

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these people because they end up colliding
with the world realizing that revenge is impossible,

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that revenge is never satisfactory. And
that seems fascinating to me to see

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interesting what Ricardo did, which suggests
about the masks, the lives of adults

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with the system good measure, in
my opinion, in that, in putting

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on the mask and going out to
face the world every day. Or I

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reminded you of a phrase by a
science writer, American fiction Teck Chank,

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who says or says one of his
characters. All of us, absolutely all

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of us, make up stories of
our own homelands. That also portrays life

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and invents those homeland stories. I' m going to write another fictional character

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has marked me whose ideas shook.
It has not been digested, but it

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has had an influence on my way
of seeing and understanding the world. It

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is a character that appears the main
character of a short novel, but important,

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my opinion, the most interesting novels
in the 20th century. Graham Green

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' s impassive American. This character
is a foreign correspondent. He' s

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in Vietnam in the middle of a
pre- war conflict in the 1960s Fowler

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Surname. This character is one is
someone who looks at the world with a

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certain sharpness, but also with indifference. And it' s a character that

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somehow defines itself in contrast to another
character in the novel. And the impassive

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American Pile studied at Harvard, he' s full of good intentions. He

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wants to change the world, he
wants to do institutional engineering, he wants

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to improve, he wants to improve
society. But the most interesting thing about

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this Fowler foreign correspondent character is that
his ethical clarity, his moral clarity,

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comes from that pessimism and dispassionateness.
And, if you want, yourself,

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Spyle, the character full of good
intentions, the impassive American, who ends

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up doing more damage. And that
voice, the voice of this reporter,

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of this cynical poller, to me
is one of the most interesting voices I

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' ve ever read. The most
disturbing characters in contemporary literature. There is

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a drawing of Picasso, Don Quixote
and Sancho that I had in my room

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when I lived alone for about seven
years, and it is a drawing that

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moves me in a very particular way, difficult to understand. Finally, I

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gave the drawing when we came to
live in this apartment. And yet what

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left me is the idea that there
are people who come to two silhouettes,

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who come together and who are one
silhouette. There are couples who are like

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this and there are friends who are
like this and without a doubt, the

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quijote and Sancho are those, those
first people who come from two. For

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in the plane of literature, of
course, there is one that is the

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one that goes head- on in
fantasy and there is another that is the

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one that treads the earth, the
ideality and the realistic, the knight and

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the rogue, but above all they
are a couple a couple or a friendship

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that is always like moving to see
repeat, from Rome and Juliet to the

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strange couple Nell Simon. The story
of those two divorced people who are going

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to live together and recreate a marriage
without realizing it is fascinating and to die

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of laughter, but of that moving
silhouette, so beautiful that I was very

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excited in Picasso' s drawing,
I also have that idea of living in

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the fantasy of becoming oneself, in
the fantasy that seems to me picks up

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Pinocchio and gathers the Count of Montecristo, because he is above all in the

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quijote, this man who again baptizes
himself and goes out to make the life

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that he thinks should be so.
Be more fiction than anything else, for

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that man is also in Chaplin'
s character and is also in the character

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of Cantinflas. It is a people
who live as in an intermediate dimension and

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insist and play it for that and
there is a stubbornness, there is an

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obstinacy in their way of being,
that is very beautiful and that seems to

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sink with the boat, playing it
for a way of being consistent forever,

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which is to be a little crazy
and on the way to leaving beauty watered

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everywhere, like that of Chaplin,
or that of Cantinflas or that of Quixote.

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Those characters have always fascinated me and
I think I see them, for

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example, in my mother' s
behavior, remind him in du Ricardo that

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he told the dus Hopslink that human
beings are amphibians. We inhabit this world

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that we can touch and tread,
but we also inhabit the world of ideas,

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of imagination, in the world of
worlds that we invent for ourselves.

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From there perhaps the fascination with this
Picasso engraver of Quixote and Sancho, and

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there also the fascination of humanity with
quijote and defines that essence of human beings,

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but also a novel that has invented
humanity itself. I would like to

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speak briefly of a fictional character,
of another fictional character in fascinating opinion is

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from a more recent reading, of
a reading that I had been posting for

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many years and that I did about
a few years ago. It is Don

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Fabricio, the Prince of Salina,
in sicily of the famous novel El Gatopardo

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de Juseph de Lampedusa, this species
of refinal aristocrat, melancholy, existentialist,

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a kind of tolerant sport. What
I' m most interested in this fictional

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character they say is the writer'
s great- grandfather prepared his life to

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write this his only novel. He
said that what interests me most about the

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way he accepts the decline, the
decline of his life, his mind and

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his body. It says at the
end of the novel that of the many

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years lived perhaps it would have been
worth a year or two added in total,

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not much more. And the way
he accepts revolution, the reversal of

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hierarchies. With this attitude of resigned
and distant belief the idea that in the

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reversal of hierarchies comes a new emerging
class that has to accept that it will

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perhaps reproduce all its defects in none
of the virtues. But he accepts decay

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as an aesthetic species. He was
fond of astronomy and looked at the sky,

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perhaps as some kind of comfort or
acceptance that in the life of human

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beings. And I think this novel
and this character above all a reflection on

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that. Everything is happening, but
everything also remains the same. I would

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like to close with the monologue of
the merchant of Venice, the character of

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the merchant of Venice. Perhaps,
obviously, in Shakespeare' s works there

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are wonderful characters for my taste,
Lady Macbeth and Yago, the maleolith puppeteers

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are the brightest, the brightest characters, of Shakespeare' s work too,

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as there is obviously Hamlet and there
is Juliet' s Rome and it is

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good all the characters we know prosperous
in the storm. But I always hear

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the monologue of the merchant of Venice, which is a chilling monologue and which

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in today' s context, in
today' s world, seems especially relevant

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to me because it is not only, of course, a response to anti

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- Semitism, but, in general, a response to fundamentalism and the lack

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of humanity. The monologue who launches
the Venice marketing can accommodate any human group

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that is being unknown, being denied, being stereotyped and violated. And then

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he' s a constant character in
my life and when I' m making

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up my stories, it seems to
me that I always try to fit into

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them a monologue like that of the
merchant of Venice, just as you see

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Ricardo in the monologue of the merchant
of Venice, an urgency, a way

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to connect that world of Shakespeare with
our world and that you like to recreate

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it, incorporate it in your novels. I have another idea, of another

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fiction, the imagined fiction, an
idea that has obsessed me over the last

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few months and I would like to
call it a simple faith preacher. I

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would like to recreate this character quickly, based above all on the last readings

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of recent years, from this fanl
bike. Richard could demand it this way.

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I can imagine him first in a
fur room with his wife. Both

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are getting dressed for a writers'
conference that will take place in a few

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hours where he has to give the
main speech. His wife approaches his back

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and helps him fasten the bow tie
through the elevator. They take a cab

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or Carlos is waiting and takes him
to the conference. When the cameras arrive,

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they chase us towards the threats.
Before they sit at the table and

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the other one. His wife talks
livelyly with the diners all writers. In

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the meantime, he hasn' t
been distracted. Someone pronounces his name.

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He stops with the two leaves in
his hand, goes to the podium and

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reads his speech, a discourse on
the invisibility of the human spirit. After

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the speech comes the widespread applause to
which his wife joins mechanically, but her

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expression says it all. He has
already lost faith in what he preaches.

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This idea, Ricardo, this kind
of fictional character, of preaching to the

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world in a difficult time, a
time of madness, which has been a

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recurring theme in the third round,
preaching to the world in what is no

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longer believed, but which in some
way the preacher considers necessary. It'

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s an idea that has haunted me
these days. I insist on hugging,

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Ricardo. We' ll meet.
No. It' s clear we can

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all write. It is clear that
we can all, with luck and vocation,

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devote ourselves to the craft of writing. But lately I think we can

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' t just write, we should
write. Writing is the best therapy we

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have at hand. Welcome to Fictionario. An audio course on how and why

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00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:34.400
to write. Take the audiocourse of
fictional writing in the locutorio com slash fictionario

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00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:42.279
with Ricardo Silva Romero. Always choose
a good time, always choose a good

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00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:48.920
conversation. Third round the podcast subscribe
now and listen to it every week on

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