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Hello, and welcome to Open minds
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alessandro Rojas, and I've got with
me my news UFO News sidekick buddy.

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For the first segment. Here,
Martin artiste willis, Wow, does that

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I have like one of those apostrophe
apostrophes? I think so, yeah,

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wow, I'm not completely sure how
you spell it. That's good enough.

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Yeah, just I didn't even know
that you're a painter. Well, I

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just have fun with it. I
you know, I wouldn't call myself an

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artist. I just like throw a
bunch of paint on, you know,

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canvas, and and just have some
fun. So it's fun. I like

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to do it when I have time, but time is slim. I almost

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got back into it a few months
ago, but now I'm moving. That's

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not fun. Yeah, so moving's
never fun. And I found out from

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my guests today. So to let
people know who the guest is today,

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it's David Marlar. Some of you
may be saying, hey, you just

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had David Marler recently. True,
but David Marler is an excellent researcher.

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And you know, just so the
listeners know, and you might have known,

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you know, things are I've changed
a little bit for open minds.

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But I'm just we're more and focused
on the credible information out there. Why

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is it just because we think everything
else is silly? No, not at

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all. It's more along the lines
of I just think it's an underrepresented area

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where a lot of people are looking
for information, credible information, and so

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I want to focus on that.
Because you know, this Pentagon thing happened.

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I'm sure there's a lot of people
I would be too, thinking,

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you know, what is this?
You know what credible information is? They're

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out there. Most people in the
general public haven't heard that there's credible information.

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So, you know, instead of
having to go google UFOs and finding

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all the crazy stuff, hopefully you
know, they can come here and find

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some credible information. And I know
it's a stepping stone because then people once

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they begin to explore in kind of
the more safer, more well established information,

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then they develop what their interests are
and looking too other things. But

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I think it's important to kind of
stake this ground and to you know,

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defend this this bastion of at least
some credible information. So that's what we're

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doing. And David Marler is great
at this because so in other words,

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I think the way I feel is
focusing on more on quality than quantity as

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far as guests go. And David
Marler, as you know if you heard

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him recently, is excellent and he
does great research. And one of the

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great pieces of research that he's done
recently is to investigate this Battle of La

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incident, which we'll talk more about. Nineteen forty two Los Angeles. Unknown

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objects flies over Los Angeles. They
opened up, you know, this is

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just after Pearl Harbor, so they
were ready anti aircraft guns just go crazy

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shooting at whatever this thing is,
and they don't get it because it goes

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down the coasts and back. And
we'll talk more in detail. But it's

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also what's surprising is marlar investigation has
demonstrated that this is actually a much more

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significant case than even I, you
know, had a realized before. He

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put it all together like this,
and I think he's the only one who's

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done as in depth of research,
putting it all together like he has.

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And of course he's great at referencing
some of the other researchers who have you

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know, also looked into this and
gotten some of the information that he's been

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able to use in this investigation.
So this is a great This is a

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lot of fun. This interview here
about the Battle of La great well.

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A couple of things I want to
say. First of all, I commend

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you for your efforts. Oh thank
you. And secondly, you can't have

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David Marler on enough, in my
opinion. I know, I agree,

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I would have him on every week
if he would be on the show.

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I mean, he's just amazing.
He's top notch, top shelf. So

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yeah, I agree, he's a
lot of fun and he's got so much

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to talk about, and you know
what's really fun too, especially I don't

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know why I never realized this before, but I think it's because I've been

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focusing on these interviews and I got
these Devil's Tower UFO event interviews and David

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Marler was there, and I interviewed
him, and I edited that together,

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and that local news actually interviewed him, and I'm gonna be putting another piece

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together with him and some of us
this week, so keep an eye out

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on the YouTube. But he's very
articulate, and he is so well spoken

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that it's just it's fun listening to
him and having him convey this information.

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I think articulate and well spoken.
Is this same same thing? Yeah?

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I think so, But anyway you
articulated it well, yeah, But the

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reason I thought, and that also
made me think of the art because he's

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into triangle UFOs. He's written a
book about that, and that's what most

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people know him for. Great investigations
into that. And one of your paintings

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is a triangle UFO that you're going
to give to mister Marlin. I think

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that's great. That's right. I
still have it here and I'm packing up

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to move. I have been looking
for the right size box while he patiently

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waits for it to arrive in the
mail. They were excited about it.

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Oh that's awesome, that's good.
You would think you were like some famous

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person jokes on him. Then,
yeah, all right, So that will

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be the show today. It's gonna
be a lot of fun. But of

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course, before we get into all
of that, we talked UFO news.

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You want me to tell you my
funny story too. I would absolutely love

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to hear that. I need a
laugh about right now. Okay, So,

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and this relates to to UFO news
because there was a spectacular show in

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the Guy last night. Amazing light
show However, especially even if you are

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following my Twitter, you would have
been aware of what it was, which

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is well, i'll tell you in
a minute. But there's I have a

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friend, a really good mutual friend
of ours, who apparently was not reading

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my tweets this week, but I
don't blame him because he's busy putting together

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what will be probably one of the
best documentaries to come out in quite some

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time on UFOs. This is our
good friend Le Spiegel, journalist who formerly

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wrote for the Huffington Post, but
now he's working with James Fox, who

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has created what I think are some
of the best UFO documentaries out there.

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Out of the Blue, and I
know what I saw, and he's working

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on new one and Lee's working with
him. So they're actually both out in

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California, in the San Francisco area
editing this new documentary, and somebody came

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in I talked to because Lee called
me very excited last night and had ran

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downstairs and said, hey, guys, I don't know what this is,

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but there's something really weird in the
sky. I think there might be a

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UFO out here. So they go
all go outside and they see this large

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cone shape glow in the sky huge. Wow. Lee showed me some pictures

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and the edge of this cone was
really bright, and he said it seemed

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like it like slowly went over them
and then you know, disappeared over the

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horizon and it somehow kind of like
changed in luminosity while it was doing.

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This is what he described. So
I was like wow, and he's like,

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yeah, let me send you the
pictures. He sent me a couple

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of pictures, and so I said, this is amazing because I know what

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it is and I think it's amazing, and he's like what. He's like

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yeah, and I was like,
you know, this is SpaceX. SpaceX

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launched a rocket. Now, when
I said that, he did not seem

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excited. I am because I'm so
into this space stuff and I'll tell you

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why this is such a big deal
in a minute. But he was kind

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of bumped. He's like, oh, you think that's what it is.

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I was like, I know,
that's what it is. What you got

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was the re entry of the rocket. And I was like, this is

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still exciting. You're not you know, don't be bombed. This is good

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because what he witnessed was the first
time in history a rocket has launched into

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space and then come back and landed
on the ground. Of course, SpaceX

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has done this with their Falcon rockets
in the past. However, they've landed

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them on these remote, unmanned large
ships out in the ocean barges exactly the

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barges for safety because you know,
the first one or two times they did

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this, the or the first time
the rocket fell over and exploded and it

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would have been bad if there were
people there. But they've got it down

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now, so they landed it in
California. So his part was the landing

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when it was coming back, so
he seemed kind of bumped, but I

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was excited. I'm like, this
is historic. You witness the first time

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this has ever happened. This is
like Flash Gordon stuff. You know,

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this is like Buck Rogers. We're
able to have these rockets come back and

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land on the ground. Amazing.
So and these are our first steps.

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This is an important technology to get
us to Mars and everything, which SpaceX

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plans to do within the next ten
years. So he wasn't excite as excited

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about what it was. He was
kind of he thought maybe they really got

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something crazy. But definitely if you
go look just look at SpaceX the pictures

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are all over the news this morning. People got these amazing photos and NBCLA

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got this amazing video. It just
looks so surreal. These rocket launchers are

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really crazy. And of course you
know, uh, this one of course

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got mistaken for something unusual. It's
happened before when SpaceX's launched rockets, just

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the nature of their rockets, the
way the gas is released in everything.

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But when this all first, when
this happens throughout history, when rockets release

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gas or when they have problems,
uh, they often look spectacular in the

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sky. And in fact, in
Norway, Yeah, in Norway, there

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were these spirals. And to this
day, when you tell people those were

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rockets, there's other examples of these
spirals, they don't believe you. In

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fact, there are some listeners listening
to this right now who are like those

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Norway's Bibles were portable, you know, dimensions to another portal. They were

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not rockets. And I'm sorry,
and uh, I think they're talking exactly

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like that, very similar, very
similar, Well at least that's how I

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imagine that. They said. You
know, this is the guy in the

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mom's basement type of thing who just
wants everything to be Aliens and dimensional portals,

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and you know, it's just there. There might be that sort of

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thing. I would say, go
look, you know, watch this hut

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for the Skinwalker documentary. There is
some but unfortunately, you know, the

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Norway thing was a rocket and they
just do some spectacular things. But it

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made me think, even last night
when I was looking at this, or

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yesterday when I was reading about the
upcoming launch, which was last night,

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is that you know there are I've
got a new article. Actually I linked

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to it on Den of Geek and
you know, let me see if my

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other one's out. So it was
in the Den of Geek magazine that they

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made for New York Comic Con,
which was just this last weekend, and

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it's a small thing about space tourism, so the different technologies being used,

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who you could go buy a ticket
from today when you might be able to

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get your ride, the different technologies, all of that sort of stuff.

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I wrote an article on that.
I wrote a longer one that's going to

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be up at on the website at
any time as soon as they recover from

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their New York Comic Con partying which
just ended yesterday. And I know these

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guys party man. It was in
New York. I'm sure they had a

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lot of fun. But all of
these varying technologies, the rockets are different.

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I mean, it used to be
kind of, you know, just

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a handful of people that use a
more standard kind of craft when it was

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just NASA launching stuff or just the
satellite launches. Now that private corporations are

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involved, the technologies vary so much
so that we're going to be seeing a

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lot of different types of which is
exciting. It Like the future is getting

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here so quickly, all kinds of
different sort of rockets being launched, and

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so there's going to be different kind
of lights in the sky that we haven't

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seen before, like last night.
More and more as time goes on and

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we we start flying, you know, these these spacecraft more and more,

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right, Well, you know it
is I think I think it's the upper

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atmosphere where things can look really funky, like what you're talking about when they

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have a failed failed missile launcher.
But yeah, I can definitely, I

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mean it's absolutely beautiful. But uh, I think it's important to have things

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explain that can be explained. Yeah, last week I had you know,

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I had Fraser Kane on my show
from Oh yeah, Universe Today and Astronomy

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Cast, and he absolutely says,
you know, nope, uh nope,

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no aliens, No, no aliens
coming here in no UFOs. And you

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know, a lot of people wrote
really harsh comments. But one point he

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made that I thought was very is, hey, look there's a box over

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there, and someone's going to tell
me that there's something in that box.

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Well, I can't see inside that
box, so I have no evidence.

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So he made a really good point
to the fact where you know, every

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you know, the people that claim
that aliens are visiting that's what UFOs are.

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It's I'm not saying that's not what
they are, but he makes a

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good point to say, we don't
have any evidence as to what they are

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at all. So anyway, I
don't know how I got onto that topic,

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but no, it makes sense.
It's just that the evidence portion of

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it, because you know, I've
been saying that and someone even challenged me

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on my YouTube. My last UFO
is seriously live, and he's like,

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there is evidence out there. These
people that you're talking about wouldn't be researching

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this stuff if there was an evidence, And it's like, well, they're

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still researching, right, They're still
trying to gather they're gathering evidence. There

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may be indications, there may be
what Frasier, for example, was talking

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about is kind of our null hypothesis. So if you're doing a scientific investigation,

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you have your hypothesis, but your
job is not to prove your hypothesis.

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Your job is not to disprove your
hypothesis. You're trying to prove the

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null hypothesis. And why is that? And that's what makes the practice of

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scientific research so powerful is that you're
trying to prove what you think is the

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case is not the case. And
if you can't prove what your null hypothesis,

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that bolsters your hypothesis. That means
you're probably right. And so once

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you've done all your due diligence to
and you can't prove the null hypothesis,

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that's when you come out and say, look, guys, we've got all

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of this evidence to show that we're
being visited by aliens, you know,

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and here's how I've shown that they're
not anything else. And that's how you

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move forward. And then everybody comes
and but we just like you're we just

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don't have you know, that smoking
gun evidence at this point, so we

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keep looking that kind of brings me
to the story that I would like to

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talk about this week. Go for
it a nice little segue. So anyway,

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this was published in Newsweek the end
of last month, on the twenty

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eight and basically the title It's in
Tech and Science, part of Newsweek and

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NASA sixtieth anniversary why haven't we found
Aliens Yet? And it basically goes from

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the first human moon landing to helping
the launch of the Hubble Space Telescope,

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which has given us unpercented views of
the unprecedented views of the wonders which loom

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above the Earth's clouds. NASA has
achieved a lot in sixty years since it

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was founded, but finding aliens,
unfortunately, is not on that list.

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There was one part of this,
you know, it goes on to talk

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about the Drake equation, which I
think is personally, I think is outdated.

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You know, with all the new
discoveries of you know, Earth like

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planets and planets and the possibility of
so many planets, it kind of kind

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of blows the Drake equation away,
but only in numbers. Possibly the gist

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of the theory still makes sense.
I'm not really sure, but I thought

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this part was interesting. In a
paper published in the journal Nature, physicists

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Giuseppe Cocotte and Philip Morrison posited that
if aliens exist, they would most likely

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get in touch with other civilizations like
our own by pinging off electromagnetic singles signals

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into space and the hope that they'd
be picked up. Now, this is

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what I want to argue that.
The reason I want to argue that is

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I don't necessarily think that if aliens
are out there, that they would be

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thinking in the way that we would
think. So I don't think there's any

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there's really any credibility to that statement. So that's why I want to read

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this. I mean, I do
understand what they're thinking, but they're taking

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that in human form and human thoughts
and human nature, and we have absolutely

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no idea what's out there and what
type of thinking that intelligent life would have.

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What do you think about that?
I agree with you in that it's

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I feel that that answer, oh, you know, they would ping off

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signals. It's very very unsophisticated,
and it it I think that the the

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problem with SETI speculation or scientific speculation
along these lines, is that these people,

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their discipline is typically a science one
such as most of the time,

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and this gentleman's probably an astronomer.
An astronomer, this isn't an astronomy issue.

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This is a more of a social
or more of a social issue.

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I think that you would need,
you know, I think that social scientists,

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communications people, they would all have
just as good, if not better,

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input than an astronomer on how a
culture another culture may contact us.

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Not only that, I would imagine
I mean, if right now we found

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another culture, a civilization that was
less technical, technically advanced than ours on

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another planet, you know, we
would be very careful and we'd have to

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put a lot of thought into how
and when we would interact with this other

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culture. So it's much more nuanced, and I think a complicated them just

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saying, oh, well, just
send them signals. We'll send them a

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signal that'll work. I mean,
that would be ridiculous. That would be

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so stupid of us to send some
random signal. It wouldn't even make any

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sense. So it doesn't. I
think that that a lot of the answers

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like that, just unfortunately, I
don't think they're that well thought out.

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They're just kind of in their defense, it's probably just a journalist asking him

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the question, which is fair,
and they're just shooting from the hip and

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not putting much thought to it and
just saying, hey, it would probably

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be this, you know, so
I think it'd be interesting. I know

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Paul Davies from the University of Arizona
has a committee, had at least a

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committee with SETI where they were kind
of post detection and they thought along these

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lines, what would a detection be, like, what kind of things would

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they do? He's written books along
this line, and a lot of times

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he's very critical of the current things
that they're doing there at the SETI Institute

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or some of the different SETI groups
out there. So, yeah, I

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agree with you. I don't think
that that makes very much sense at all.

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And in fact, you know,
I think that some could argue that

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the Star Trek type of situation.
And I think in that article or another

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article that was out recently, let
me see there was another. Yeah,

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it's called I know what you're talking
about, Here's why aliens will probably come

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in peace. Yeah, it's probably
that one, because they talk about how

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in one of those they talk about
the possibility like Santon Friedman does that we're

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kind of being kept from everyone else. We're too dangerous. You know that

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we're being watched and observed, but
nobody's were not ready to be engaged with

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yet. And we're in tribal warfare, which would make sense. And if

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that's the case, you know,
I'm sure they would be able to elude

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our detection, at least elude mass
detection. If that's that would be a

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good scenario for where we might be. Where we catch glimpses of them sometimes,

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but they don't let us blatantly,
you know, communicate with them or

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anything. That's a possibility. I
mean, why wouldn't it be so?

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Yeah, I just that ping thing
just seems really silly. Now we only

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have like a minute left, I
know, something like that. We wanted

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to talk about the Florida thing.
Do you think you can squeeze it in

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a minute? Oh, just that, Yeah, Florida. There were fireballs,

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at least a fireball videoed over Florida, but that could be part of

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the SpaceX rocket because pieces of the
rocket dislodge and then fall back to space,

287
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so it could have been there or
some other space junk. From the

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videos, it definitely looks like space
junk of some sort or a meteorite,

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because it's a fireball that breaks up
in the sky. Cool looking. Yeah,

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you know one other quick thing,
we just have a few. I

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was just thinking about the re entry
of a whole rocket. I mean,

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they must have such it must all
be covered in heat shield. I don't

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know. Do you know anything about
that? Yeah, well, I think

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it has to do with it the
I'm sure it is. I don't know

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all of the details. I mean, it comes back. It's like a

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candlestick that goes up and comes back. So maybe because it's kind of like

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a needle, it can pierce.
I don't know if that helps, to

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be honest, But yeah, I
don't know totally about the re entry,

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although you know, this is the
first stage the rocket that goes up and

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then comes back, so it doesn't
go as high as the rest of the

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payload. I got it. But
yeah, that's a good question. And

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we're out of time. Rep and
we are out of time, so we'll

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be right back with David Marler after
this break. Thank you very much,

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Martin. Very welcome. We'll be
right back. I am very happy to

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welcome David Marler back to the show. And the reason, of course,

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we've got David back, like I
had mentioned, is just I want to

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highlight what I think has been a
very significant finding on in a case that

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many of us were already aware of, which is the Battle of La which

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I guess you know, of course
you wrote the book on triangles, You're

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known for the triangle UFOs. What
inspired you to look further into the Battle

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of Los Angeles? Well, Alejandro, first, thank you for letting me

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be back on the show. It's
always a pleasure to have these conversations with

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you and with your audience. I
finished my book on triangular UFOs, and

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after an onslaught of correspondence from just
people from all over the world that were

315
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responding to the book or sharing information, I finally kind of caught my breath,

316
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so to speak, and had some
free time, and I pretty much

317
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asked myself that same question, well
what am I going to do next?

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And of course, as you know, I have a wealth of historical UFO

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materials here in my private library,
and I began to think about some of

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the cases that I was always fascinated
with, but no offense to previous researchers

321
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felt like maybe they hadn't really been
given their justice as far as in depth

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investigation and research. And I've always
been of the mindset, I don't care

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how old the case is. I
think you can still uncover new information,

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new sources of information. And so
one of those on my probably top three

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list was the Battle of LA and
I heard about the case way back in

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00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:51.359
nineteen eighty nine and Timothy Goods book
above Top Secret, that was really my

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first introduction. And at the time, I'll be honest, I read about

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that and I said, well,
that almost sounds too good to be true.

329
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What's this about a UFO over LA
being fired up? And then,

330
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of course you know, in the
ensuing years, subsequent years, we learned

331
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more information as some researchers and reporters
had documented and discussed the topic somewhat.

332
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But I really felt like it really
hadn't been given it to do as far

333
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as serious in depth investigation. So
I started corresponding and working with other UFO

334
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researchers, people that are that have
a much bigger resume than myself in this

335
00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.559
field, like Barry Greenwood, And
a lot of my inspiration was drawn from

336
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Barrie's research, because, of course
he was one of the early researchers with

337
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the freedom of Information Act to garner
all of these declassified military documents, and

338
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there's a lot of information, and
he was able to share with me his

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entire file case file on the Battle
of La incident. And just one little

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point I'd like to bring up because
I often see this posted on different blogs

341
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and websites. You know, people
say, oh, case from nineteen forty

342
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two, why are we rehab these
old cases. Well, in point of

343
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fact, one of the reasons is
because a lot of these documents aren't declassified

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until decades after the event. And
I bring that up because the documents that

345
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Barry was able to gather through the
Freedom of Information Act, most of these

346
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:22.160
didn't surface until nineteen seventy seven.
So that is one of the reasons why

347
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we reinvestigate these old cases. It's
not because they're old and oh, isn't

348
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.079
it nostalgic just to kind of go
back and reminisce about these No, it's

349
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because it takes twenty thirty forty fifty
years for documents to become available, and

350
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with those documents, we hope we
might have a thread that we can pull

351
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on that will lead to other information
or may correlate with information we already have

352
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in the books. Well, yeah, and you know what the truth is

353
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too, we don't have the same
amount of data for anything except for those

354
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military cases. And like you said, the military cases, including the Bue

355
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:08.720
book cases and all of those those
documents are older cases, and those are

356
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:15.240
the only cases that you know,
had a large organization in this case,

357
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the military investigating what had happened.
And that's one of the reasons too.

358
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You know, do we have a
lot more data for older cases and new

359
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:29.200
ones. Absolutely. And you know, at the end of the investigation that

360
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I conducted and I'm still working on, I'm actually in the process right now

361
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here in my research room, I
have an old nineteen forty two street map

362
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of Los Angeles that shows all the
little side streets. And something that I

363
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need to remind the audience is the
fact that this did occur in nineteen forty

364
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two, before the interstate systems were
put in place. So many of the

365
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.960
intersections and streets that are alluded to
in either the government documents or in the

366
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vintage newspapers, which I have most
of the original newspapers from those that morning

367
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and the sub sequent morning. They
reference witnesses at various locations. Well,

368
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if you pull up a map today, many of those streets don't exist.

369
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Oh wow, state system, So
we have to go back to the old

370
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maps from nineteen forty two in order
to see the streets as they existed at

371
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the time of this sighting. Well, we'll get into some of this later

372
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on too. But also in defense
even though we did this in the last

373
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time, I had to in defense
of historical cases, is that you know

374
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this phenomena. I think that's one
of the misperceptions that a lot of people

375
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interested in this phenomena have that I
feel in this age, especially with the

376
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show and what Open Minds is doing
we're trying to correct, is that there

377
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is not a lot of credible information
on UFOs. You may go on the

378
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:52.839
Internet and see all this stuff about
aliens and crash retrievals and all of this

379
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.799
stuff, but most of it is
not credible, as you and I know

380
00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:00.599
most of the time you follow it, and the origins of this information is

381
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:07.559
highly highly dubious. So really there's
only a handful of very credible, substantial

382
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:10.960
stuff. Oh absolutely, I mean, you know, the signal to noise

383
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.720
ratio is we often allude to it
as and in fact, I had the

384
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:18.720
Dean of Library Library Sciences with University
of New Mexico here, which is where

385
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.279
all of my historical material will eventually
wind up. And we were having that

386
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:26.440
very discussion. I was showing them
some of the more credible cases, and

387
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.160
he was very fascinated with the Battle
of La In fact, I lectured at

388
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:34.759
U and M last year on the
Battle of La incident, and the audience,

389
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.440
many of whom were faculty and staff
of the university there, were very

390
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.799
intrigued by the case. And I
don't see how you can't be intrigued with

391
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:48.680
this case regardless of what your quote
unquote take is on it, because something

392
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:52.960
did happen. We have ample evidence
to support that, in the way of

393
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:57.200
military documents, newspapers, I witness
accounts the question, and I am one

394
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:01.000
of those that still asked that question, why happened? You know? I

395
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:06.119
think you know, going and investigating
it will discuss some of the different aspects

396
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:09.400
of the investigation. We can't say
what it was, but we I think

397
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:14.599
can definitively say what it wasn't.
So I can, however, see how

398
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:19.279
people would not get as excited or
see it as as credible of a case

399
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:25.839
in the way I would imagine many
people present it because you have done a

400
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:31.599
lot of work, and no presentation
of this case have I seen more thorough

401
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:40.079
or demonstrating that it's a very important
case given you know, because I haven't

402
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:45.400
seen the data that you have shared, I think that you've gathered, you

403
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:51.119
know, more information together than anyone, and you know what's resulted, as

404
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.759
you say, is a very significant
case. So maybe what we'll do now

405
00:32:53.920 --> 00:33:00.079
is get into what had happened in
as kind of a nutshe concise way as

406
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:06.599
possible. Absolutely well, of course, we're going back to nineteen forty two,

407
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:12.000
the early morning of February twenty fifth, nineteen forty two, and the

408
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:16.559
entire southern half of California was thrown
into a blackout. Now we have to

409
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:20.319
keep in mind, you know,
for some perspective here, this was just

410
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:24.359
two months after the attack at Pearl
Harbor, and as I always reference it,

411
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:28.559
as you heard me say my presentation
recently, you know, it was

412
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.599
the nineteen forties equivalent of nine to
eleven. You know, the attack on

413
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:38.000
Pearl Harbor collectively shocked the entire country
and really was the final straw in pushing

414
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:42.559
us into becoming engaged in World War
two. Up to that point, the

415
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:45.839
United States was somewhat divided. Do
we really want to engage in another World

416
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:49.880
War? Well, you know,
now it became personal. We lost,

417
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.960
you know, a lot of American
lives during the attack at Pearl Harbor.

418
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.839
And so this was just two months
in the wake of that, and there

419
00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:00.640
was a heightened state of anxiety,
specifically on the West coast of the mainland

420
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:07.440
United States, and many people military
authorities as well were anticipating what we felt

421
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:12.000
was an imminent attack on the part
of the Japanese military on the West coast,

422
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:16.119
and in fact an attack did happen, albeit thirty six hours before the

423
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:21.159
incident that we're going to talk about, where a Japanese sub actually surfaced off

424
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:25.360
the coast of Santa Barbara, California
and fired thirteen shells at an oil refinery

425
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:32.320
in Elwood and caused minimal damage,
only five hundred dollars in damages. And

426
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:37.119
then the submarine that had fired the
rounds quickly went out to the Pacific and

427
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:44.159
disappeared. So fast forward thirty six
hours in the wake of that incident.

428
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:49.119
Now there was a very heightened state
of anxiety, and many people attribute the

429
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.199
events that we're going to discuss as
all attributed to jittery war nerves. I

430
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:57.559
will admit there was an element of
hysteria that played out, but I don't

431
00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.679
think we can use hysteria as a
blanket explain nation for everything. And we'll

432
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:06.800
talk about some reasons why. But
in the early morning of February twenty fifth,

433
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:12.920
an inbound radar target was detected.
And I've stated this many times in

434
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:16.519
my lectures, and I've had skeptics
afterwards never referenced this. In the fact

435
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:22.840
that there was radar confirmation of an
unknown aerial object moving in from the northwest

436
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:28.639
towards the Greater Los Angeles area.
We have the government documents. We know

437
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.400
the name of the radar operator,
the name of the officer that was observing

438
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:37.079
the radar target moving inbound. And
in fact, it wasn't just one radar.

439
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.159
Admittedly, in nineteen forty two we
had very crude radar. I will

440
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:44.199
be the first one to acknowledge that. But the one thing we need to

441
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.360
keep in mind is there were three
separate radars tracking this object for one hundred

442
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:52.639
and twenty miles. We had two
SCR two seventies, which was the first

443
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:58.199
long range radar used by the Army, the United States Army, and then

444
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.760
we also had an SCR two six, which was a short range radar,

445
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:07.800
so we had three radars that were
pinpointing and tracking this object for one hundred

446
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.360
and twenty miles moving inland and that
and again the skeptics never want to address

447
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:16.800
this. That is what precipitated all
the ensuing events, namely the blackout and

448
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:22.719
then later the subsequent firing of any
aircraft guns on an object or objects that

449
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:27.199
were seen in the sky. And
so it's really hard to imagine in this

450
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:30.519
day and age, the entire southern
half of California, including the Greater La

451
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:35.400
Area, being plunged into a blackout, but that is what in fact happened

452
00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:39.599
as a result of this target moving
inland and any aircraft batteries had been placed

453
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:45.679
along the West coast, again in
anticipation of a potential Japanese attack, and

454
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.760
according to the military records, they
were given orders to fire. They were

455
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.360
on green status alert, which meant
that they were ready to fire at any

456
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:59.360
potential targets that they saw, and
an entire barrage of any aircraft shells were

457
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:02.920
really least and as you can imagine, what goes up comes down, and

458
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:07.039
there was a lot of property damage
as a result of all this shrapnel falling

459
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.440
down all over the Greater Los Angeles
area, all the way down to Long

460
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:15.599
Beach. I have an original Long
Beach newspaper that describes the reign of shrapnel

461
00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:22.159
that came down. And despite all
of this material being launched into the air,

462
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:27.840
nothing was ever brought down. And
so we have many witnesses. And

463
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:31.559
something that I think that really surprised
you as well was in looking at the

464
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:37.840
timeline. This object came in,
tracked on radar, moved inland, was

465
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:42.000
photographed by a member of the press, and that's a whole story into itself,

466
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:45.840
which hopefully we'll be able to talk
about, and then moved down towards

467
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.119
Long Beach, disappeared. And then
twenty minutes after the firing died down,

468
00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:57.400
the same or a similar object reversed
course and basically backtracked from the direction it

469
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:01.360
had originally come from, and then
disappeared off of the Long or off of

470
00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:07.320
the Santa Monica coast. So they
have we have two overflights, essentially have

471
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:15.400
an unknown target and uh, how
do we know this in its fight path?

472
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:19.079
Was it tracked on radar that the
entire time or is this a combination

473
00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.639
of radar and witness accounts? Oh, no, very good question. The

474
00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:30.639
radar actually disappeared off radar right before
this object apparently came over the mainland.

475
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:37.159
And to your point, I've spent
hours and countless hours trying to correlate eyewitnessed

476
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:40.840
testimony from the newspapers, the military
accounts, but more importantly, quite often

477
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:45.679
we talk about documents. Sometimes in
these historic UFO cases, the best quote

478
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:50.760
unquote documents we have are in fact
audio recordings, and one of them,

479
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:53.559
one of the best one is Byron
Palmer, who was a CBS radio news

480
00:38:53.559 --> 00:38:59.320
broadcaster. He actually and we still
have the recording. Many of your audience

481
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:01.599
made members may have actually heard this
on the internet. They can look it

482
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:07.079
up. But Byron Palmer actually did
a radio broadcast that morning that generally conforms

483
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:14.280
or comports with the military reports in
the newspaper accounts of this object that was

484
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:19.800
tracked in the convergence of searchlight beams
and were fired on by any aircraft shells,

485
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:23.400
And it talks about the object and
its flight path, and the flight

486
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:30.760
path that Byron Palmer describes correlates quite
well with all of the locations and cities

487
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:36.480
and neighborhoods that were mentioned in the
newspapers and the government documents. So in

488
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:43.840
correlating these various types of information,
it basically lends to the hypothesis which I

489
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.199
go on, is that it was
a solitary unidentified target. There were many

490
00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:51.960
reports, and I'm not going to
sit here and make it sound like all

491
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.000
of these reports correlated beautifully with one
another. There were a lot of reports

492
00:39:55.039 --> 00:40:01.719
of people seeing flights of fighter aircraft
bombers a solitary mystery target that moved too

493
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:05.800
slow to be an aircraft, Which
is the one in question that I think

494
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.840
that with the hypothesis I'm working on, is this unknown target that was also

495
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:15.079
photographed. And in fact, one
thing I like to mention is the radar

496
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:19.760
target was a solitary radar target,
not multiple objects coming in, but one

497
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:23.679
solitary target. And in the photograph, the famous photograph which we'll talk about

498
00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:30.119
hopefully, it photographed a solitary object. So using that in addition to some

499
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.480
other information, I went with the
working hypothesis of a solitary unknown aerial object.

500
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:38.440
But again, as I mentioned as
I prefaced the discussion, there was

501
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:43.119
an element of hysteria. You know, people said they saw a fight aw

502
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:45.119
bombers. But I would like to
mention, in the course of my research,

503
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:51.280
the Japanese military at the conclusion of
World War II stated, as a

504
00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:55.480
matter of fact, they had no
military operations over the Greater Los Angeles area

505
00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:00.400
on the early morning of February twenty
fifth, nineteen forty two. And in

506
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:04.800
fact, Nobukio Nambu, who was
an officer on board the submarine that shelled

507
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:10.880
the oil fields thirty six hours before
near Galletta, California, he stated in

508
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:15.960
a letter I believe from nineteen seventy
four that after they fired upon the oil

509
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:21.039
derricks there, that they immediately went
out to see out to the Pacific,

510
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:27.280
and that basically began and ended any
military operations during that cruise. So people

511
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.599
have alluded, well, it had
something to do with the submarine that shelled

512
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:34.199
the oil fields. Well, we
have Nobukio Nambu's testimony, and we also

513
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:38.199
have an official declaration by the Japanese
military stating they weren't involved. And then,

514
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:42.639
of course the next question comes up, because let's be honest, Alejandro,

515
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.800
we don't look at UFO as The
first explanation was it military? Was

516
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:51.320
it United States military aircraft that were
observed? And we have one of the

517
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:57.639
declassified documents through Barry Greenwood's research,
where two generals, Lieutenant General John DeWitt,

518
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:01.119
who was actually in charge of Aired
Defense, Western Defense Command and Fourth

519
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:08.760
Army Defense, he wrote a letter
to General Searles in Washington, DC and

520
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:14.239
he states the question had been raised
several times why they didn't send up their

521
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:19.079
airplanes, and he states, matter
of factly, the reason why was they

522
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:23.000
only had forty five planes at the
time defending the Greater Los Angeles area,

523
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:29.559
and they thought that this solitary target, again referencing a solitary target, they

524
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:34.599
thought that this solitary target might have
been a reconnaissance plane. And he stated

525
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.880
that despite the fact that they had
fighters ready with pilots in the cockpits,

526
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:43.480
ready to take off, they didn't
want to prematurely launch them if they thought

527
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:45.840
that that was just a reconnaissance plane. In fact, he goes on to

528
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:50.920
state that in his letter they didn't
want to have their aircraft up in the

529
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:55.599
air half out of fuel when the
actual main attack arrived, which makes a

530
00:42:55.599 --> 00:43:00.039
lot of sense. Which that's this
type of research I love because it makes

531
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:07.159
sense that it answers a seemingly,
you know, unanswerable question, and it

532
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:15.119
corroborates the idea of a single craft. It does it? Does you know

533
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:19.840
they thought it was some type of
reconnaissance plane potentially, And I do like

534
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:23.039
to state that to defend the military, because sometimes the military at that time

535
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:28.119
was portrayed as completely impotent. You
didn't launch planes, you didn't do anything.

536
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:30.920
Well, they were taking active steps, but they were being judicious in

537
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.880
what they did. And I agree
with you. I think it was the

538
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:38.159
right decision if in fact, it
would have been an attack at the time.

539
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:43.880
So you know, so it wasn't
Japanese military planes, it wasn't United

540
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:49.599
States military planes. I think anyone
in your audience would agree. Any commercial

541
00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:53.679
pilot that would have taken off during
a blackout, yeah, it would have

542
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:58.599
been suicide. So I don't think
we can chalk that up to it being

543
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:04.199
commercial aircraft private aircraft. And again, when you look at the amount of

544
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:08.639
material that was expended, a fourteen
hundred and forty rounds of three inch shells,

545
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:14.079
any aircraft shells. In addition,
I might add to thirty seven millimeters

546
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:16.760
rounds and fifty caliber rounds that were
fired that morning. Again, this is

547
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:24.280
all documented in the government documents through
Barry Greenwood's research, So I think anything

548
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:30.079
like that is somewhat ridiculous to entertain. I've had people say, well,

549
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:32.119
maybe it was a flock of birds. Well, you know, birds would

550
00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:37.559
have been dispersed and flying in all
different directions with explosions taking place all around

551
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:43.320
them. Another explanation, which I
agree would be the most prosaic explanation.

552
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:45.960
Unfortunately it doesn't fit all the facts. Could it have been a barrage balloon

553
00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:52.480
that broke loose of a tether floated
overhead. It would have been bright silver,

554
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:55.360
elliptical in shape. The only problem
with that is in all the government

555
00:44:55.400 --> 00:45:00.679
documents there was no barrage balloon reported
that loose, and that would have been

556
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:06.480
the most easy explanation to go with. And that's another mystery, Alejandro,

557
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.360
with regard to this whole case,
not just the events that played out,

558
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:14.119
but the government's reaction to it.
And people asked me, well, what

559
00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:16.719
was the official government explanation? And
my response to those people that asked that

560
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:22.800
question, well, that depends,
you know, take your pick. Secretary

561
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:25.280
of the Navy at the time,
Frank Knox, he said matter of factly

562
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:30.400
in multiple newspaper accounts at the time
that basically it was just jittery warners.

563
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:36.159
They jumped the gun, they fired
on something that wasn't there, but basically

564
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.719
that nothing to see here move along. At the same time, though,

565
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:45.199
we had the Secretary of War Henry
Stimpson, based on General George C.

566
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:51.960
Marshall's information and intelligence that they gathered, stating that there were aircraft or an

567
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:58.000
aircraft involved and that it was not
due to jituy warners. And the funny

568
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:00.360
thing is, despite the fact that
the public is pressuring for an answer,

569
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:07.960
Franklin Delano Roosevelt was wanting an answer, and you know, everyone else is

570
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.559
wanting an answer. Congress included,
they never were able to resolve those two

571
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:16.800
explanations. We never had a cohesive
explanation for what took place. So I

572
00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:21.239
think that's rather funny in that regard. Well, that's what's great about this

573
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:25.280
case as well. First of all, like you said, there are accounts

574
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:30.519
from the government as far as their
ideas. There's also records there, like

575
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:36.320
you reference, from the military and
what they thought might have happened and what

576
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:39.840
they tracked. And then actually what's
interesting too, and I'd love to hear

577
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:46.960
your thoughts. Is the media also
kind of recorded this event pretty accurate.

578
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:53.519
I mean, really, when you
boil things down, the witnesses, the

579
00:46:53.639 --> 00:47:00.199
reporting by the military and their reports
and from the media all kind of it's

580
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:06.840
very close. Absolutely again conflicting reports
with some of the people in general,

581
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:10.559
but you know, it generally conforms
with the fact that there was something there,

582
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:15.280
and it's interesting. In my presentation, unfortunately, I can only show

583
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:19.719
this visually. We have the famous
photo that shows the convergence of search lights,

584
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:23.079
and there appears to be something in
the convergence of search lights. And

585
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:27.840
when you look at that image,
as I stated in my presentation that you

586
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:32.320
recently heard, you look at that
image, they're not just willy nilly looking

587
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:36.000
and scanning the sky. And in
fact, I use it as a point

588
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.079
of contrast a photograph, another photograph
that was taken that morning, and it

589
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:45.599
shows search lights in all directions,
and they were focused on something, at

590
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:50.079
least at one part of this entire
series of events, they were focused on

591
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:52.800
something. And when you look at
that photo, when you read some of

592
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:57.639
the newspaper accounts, when you listen
to Byron Palmer's account that they had an

593
00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:02.119
object that was being tracked visually in
the convergence of search lights. When you

594
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:08.280
see those white blobs of light around
this convergence of search lights, it's a

595
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:14.960
fairly confined, localized area of anti
aircraft fire. They're not shooting in all

596
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:20.159
directions. It's not made as many
people have alluded to. And you know,

597
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:22.079
and some people have said, well, it may have been a balloon.

598
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:27.159
And the thinking of the time it's
interesting, and the government documents even

599
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:30.760
you can read the fact that they
state that the object was moving too slow

600
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:35.920
to be an aircraft, therefore it
must have been a balloon. And of

601
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:38.679
course that's only looking at two explanations. I mean, and again the skeptics

602
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:43.800
will attack me for this. Oh
there's David Marler saying it's an alien spacecraft.

603
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:45.679
I'm not saying that. I never
say that in my lectures. All

604
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:52.320
I'm saying is it's an unknown aerial
object, unidentified flying object. But of

605
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:54.159
course, in nineteen forty two,
and that's another reason I love this case,

606
00:48:54.599 --> 00:49:00.960
we weren't thinking flying saucer. We
went to fo so at that time

607
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:05.920
that makes sense. If it's not
an aircraft, it was moving too slow,

608
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:09.360
so it must have been a balloon, but again, no meteorological balloon

609
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:15.239
was described as being released or lost
at that time that could have accounted for

610
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:19.920
it, and no barrage balloon.
And it's funny many people have referenced,

611
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.840
well, what about the Japanese FuGO
balloon bombs? Could that have been an

612
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:27.159
explanation? Well, it could be
if this event occurred two years later,

613
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:31.119
because those weren't even beginning to be
launched until late nineteen forty four. So

614
00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:37.199
you again trying to look at all
the potential explanations, and it's interesting there

615
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:42.079
was an account written in any aircraft
journal several years after the fact. I

616
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:46.480
believe it was nineteen forty nine,
and they made a statement stating that not

617
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:51.000
one, but two other balloons were
released that morning and that's what accounted for

618
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:55.360
all the mayhem. And it's funny
because they don't reference where they came up

619
00:49:55.360 --> 00:50:00.719
with that explanation, and the government
documents from that time, from the days

620
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:05.920
and weeks following the event, they
were never able to determine what took place.

621
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:10.079
So fast forward seven years later,
roughly seven years later, and now

622
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:14.920
they're making this definitive explanation. Well, it was two weather balloons that were

623
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:19.480
released, but it was never an
official I would call it a quasi explanation

624
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:23.079
because it was never through any official
source. It was just one military individual

625
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:27.679
that wrote about it in this journal. It doesn't explain the inbound radar track,

626
00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:32.840
right, And we'll get into more
reasons why the balloon idea doesn't fit.

627
00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:37.679
But we've got to go to our
first break. We are talking to

628
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:44.519
David Marler about the Battle of la
one of the most interesting UFO encounters.

629
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:46.760
If you're not aware of it,
and even if you are aware of it,

630
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:51.480
you probably just don't know how legit. But we're going to get even

631
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:55.239
deeper into this case and why it's
so important after this break. So for

632
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:59.800
those of you listening, I Kgira, here's some commercials. For the rest

633
00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:04.760
of you, you will hear a
short musical interlude and we'll be right back.

634
00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:20.239
Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro

635
00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:25.480
Rojas, and I am here with
my good friend David Marler. And when

636
00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:30.559
we went to break, you were
talking about the balloon theory and you,

637
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:32.800
like you said, it makes sense
to the theory because it was something that

638
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:38.280
was silverish and moved slowly through the
sky. And one thing just to clarify,

639
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:43.039
because I don't think a lot of
people know this, is that there

640
00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:45.840
were a lot of balloons in the
air. And in different World War two

641
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:51.639
movies you see the big balloons,
and those were tethered with cables and floated

642
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:55.159
in the air above cities and stuff, so that if the planes, which

643
00:51:55.159 --> 00:52:00.840
were preparreller planes were coming into bomb
or they would get wrapped up in these

644
00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:07.280
cables, right absolutely, And that
was again, like you said, an

645
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.599
accurate portrayal of what the Los Angeles
area looked like at that time. I

646
00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:15.960
mean, we had gun emplacements throughout
the entire area of Los Angeles, all

647
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:21.599
the way down towards Long Beach,
and they had barrage balloons tethered here and

648
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:28.079
there, and again trying to find
a logical down to earth and I mean

649
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:31.599
that term literally in this case down
to earth explanation, the barrage balloon would

650
00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:37.679
be the most logical in the sense
that it was large elliptical light reflecting.

651
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:42.599
But again, I think we have
to look at all of this evidence together

652
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:49.199
and to just arbitrarily say, well, it was sitting stationary, moving too

653
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:51.519
slow to be an aircraft, so
it must have been a balloon as the

654
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:55.000
thinking was at the time as we
were discussing previously. It still does not

655
00:52:55.119 --> 00:52:59.920
factor in that we had an inbound
radar target for one hundred and twenty miles

656
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:05.679
tracked by three radars. It doesn't
conform to the fact that this object made

657
00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:12.800
a pass inland from Santa Monica towards
Los Angeles, then down south towards Long

658
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:17.320
Beach twenty minutes later the object reversus
direction, which is pretty impressive flight maneuvering

659
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:22.079
for a balloon that's just idly blowing
in the wind. And then we had

660
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:28.239
this object hovering stationary at times,
moving very slowly and having this intense barrage

661
00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:30.559
of any aircraft fire all around it. And the one thing I like to

662
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:35.920
point out, these barrage balloons were
manufactured by the Shell Corporation. It was

663
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:40.760
basically just a cotton fabric wrapped in
rubber latex and then painted silver. We

664
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:45.079
have to keep in mind that not
only do we have these explosions around the

665
00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:49.760
balloons, and one skeptic on a
blog even stated, well, it's possible

666
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:53.119
that this balloon could have sustained the
shrapnel because a semi inflated balloon would have

667
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:58.800
been pliable enough to allow those little
shards to bounce off, which I think

668
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:04.039
is a joke, because when we're
talking about shrapnel from these anti aircraft bursts,

669
00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:10.000
we're talking about high velocity, multifaceted
hot shards of metal. Not only

670
00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:14.239
are they going to tear and rip, but in the case of these balloons

671
00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:19.079
with a rubber latex, that hot
metal is going to melt right through like

672
00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:22.920
a knife, a warm knife and
a stick of butter, right through one

673
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:28.440
of these balloons. And to think
that all of this material was being expended

674
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:34.800
at this object, I just simply
cannot. I have tried repeatedly to wrap

675
00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:37.639
my mind around the fact that this
could have been a balloon that survived all

676
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:39.440
of that, and to me,
it just defies logic. Right, and

677
00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:45.840
it was it. I mean that
shrapnel is designed to penetrate aircraft, yes,

678
00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:50.840
and we're talking yeah, right,
And again, if it was a

679
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:55.360
balloon, if it was a barrage
balloon, none of the military records referenced

680
00:54:55.440 --> 00:55:01.840
that a large seventy five plus foot
balloon was found deflated laying on top of

681
00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:07.199
a building. That would be something
that would have unified the official explanation as

682
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:14.519
we discussed before the commercial break,
there were conflicting official explanations. This would

683
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:19.159
have answered everything. Okay, here
is an explanation. We can all come

684
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.880
to an agreement. The Secretary of
War and the Secretary of the Navy can

685
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:27.000
all agree that this is what it
was. But even though that would have

686
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.000
been the simplest thing to do,
they didn't do it, which to me

687
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:37.039
indicates it wasn't a balloon. And
most likely the balloon probably would have shown

688
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:42.920
up pretty well in the images.
And let's get into the image, of

689
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:47.440
course, because there is this iconic
image that that is out there. Yes,

690
00:55:50.599 --> 00:55:52.280
yeah, you know, would that
have shown a balloon? It seems

691
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:55.840
like that would have shown up better. Possibly. Unfortunately, we don't know

692
00:55:55.920 --> 00:56:00.360
the type of camera that was used
to take the photo. And the one

693
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:04.800
thing I like to mention before we
get into the photograph, and I mentioned

694
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:09.159
this in my presentation recently, there
had to be other photos taken of this

695
00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:15.880
object, whatever it was that morning. I find it very hard to believe

696
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:20.559
that a photographer for one of the
news agencies heard the any aircraft sirens,

697
00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:25.199
heard the explosions, He runs to
an area where that has a decent vantage

698
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:30.119
point to take a photograph of this
object in the convergence of search lights,

699
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:34.000
which would have been very easy to
see, especially considering everything else was blacked

700
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:37.880
out in the Los Angeles area at
the time. I find it very strange

701
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:44.159
that this photographer goes up on a
hillside, snaps a photograph, one photograph,

702
00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:46.840
turns around and goes home. You
have to think at that time,

703
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:51.960
February twenty fifth, nineteen forty two, we were waiting for the Japanese to

704
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:57.159
attack. Suddenly there's any aircraft bursts, there's any aircraft sirens, there's searchlights

705
00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:00.679
sweeping the sky. If you're a
news photographer for in February nineteen forty two,

706
00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:06.400
your thinking is, this is the
story of the century, and I've

707
00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:10.039
got the pictures to show for it. This is going to be the hallmark

708
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:15.960
of my career. Right. That's
kind of like what especially wartime Pearl Harbor

709
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:20.920
just happened. That's what as a
news person, that's what you're waiting for.

710
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.440
That's why you're there. You're waiting. If something happens, I'm going

711
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:28.159
to get the photo. We have
other photos from that morning, but not

712
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:32.440
depicting this mysterious object. It's just
simply showing military or it's showing search lights

713
00:57:32.480 --> 00:57:37.039
being set up, things of that
nature. A couple showing search lights spanning

714
00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:40.320
in different directions. But the iconic
imagery that you were describing, the iconic

715
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:45.840
photograph that's on the internet is compelling. It's a haunting image. You have

716
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:49.440
these search lights piercing the darkness,
and you see this mysterious object in the

717
00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:52.880
convergence, and then you see these
little dots of any aircraft fire around it.

718
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:54.719
I mean when I first saw it, I have to tell you it

719
00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:59.800
was compelling when I saw that in
Timothy Goods book. But we were talking

720
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:06.440
Alejandro about documentation. Well, documentation
also comes in the form of photographs and

721
00:58:07.719 --> 00:58:12.000
in researching not only the Battle of
la but other historical UFO cases, I

722
00:58:12.039 --> 00:58:15.079
really try to find original materials.
Part of that's because I'm a historian.

723
00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:21.119
I'm sentimental. I like to have
original pieces of history. In September twenty

724
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:23.480
twelve, on eBay, of all
places, I'd love to tell you I

725
00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:30.119
got this through some secret government insider, but I actually purchased this on eBay.

726
00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:37.159
I found an original nineteen forty two
photograph that is a clearer image,

727
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:42.239
slightly clear image of what you see
on the Internet if you google the Battle

728
00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:45.480
of la and see the famous photograph. But what was intriguing about this,

729
00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:49.280
And again, I've done a lot
of other historical research, so I know

730
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:52.559
what to look for on these photos. Not only was it an original photo,

731
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:58.480
but on the backside was stamped on
the back February twenty fifth, nineteen

732
00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:01.280
forty two, property of a associated
press. And it has all the relevant

733
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:06.840
earmarks that are indicative of a legitimate
photo from that time. I have others

734
00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:10.920
I can compare it to. But
besides that, it actually had the original

735
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:17.199
news teletype on the back, and
on that teletype it states at the very

736
00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:23.679
top and the very bottom associated press
photo, caution use credit. Now what's

737
00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:30.079
interesting about this is all the indicators
show it's an associated press photo. Yet

738
00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:37.000
historically previous researchers thought that the photo
was taken by Paul Calvert, who was

739
00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:42.000
a photographer for the Los Angeles Times. The only reason that I've been able

740
00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:45.360
to deduce that they thought that was
because it was mixed in with other negatives

741
00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:52.719
attributed to Paul Calvert in a little
photo sleeve at the Los Angeles Times Archives.

742
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:58.559
Recently, in the last few years, our mutual friend and colleague Ben

743
00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:01.599
Hansen did a TV segment for a
show that I worked on as well,

744
01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:07.719
albeit for a different episode called UFOs
Declassified for the Smithsonian Channel. And it

745
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:13.199
was very interesting because Wayne Abbott,
the producer, went to the Los Angeles

746
01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:16.760
Times Archives with Ben and they did
an on camera interview with Simon Elliott,

747
01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:22.000
who is the chief photo archivist for
the Los Angeles Times, and they pull

748
01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:25.360
out the original negative and what was
interesting and I heard this firsthand from both

749
01:00:25.400 --> 01:00:30.519
Ben as well as Wayne Abbott,
who was the producer. As they're looking

750
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:37.039
at the original negative, Simon Elliott
states that I've noticed something I've never noticed

751
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:40.480
before, and he indicated the notch
codes, little notches on the side of

752
01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:45.440
the negative. And he stated,
I've never noticed this before, but in

753
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:47.920
the tens of thousands of negatives that
I review here at the LA Times,

754
01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:52.840
I've never seen a negative with this
notch code. And the LA Times,

755
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:58.000
I believe have like a triangular notch
if I'm not mistaken, or a double

756
01:00:58.039 --> 01:01:02.239
triangular notch on the side. This
one had a semi oval shaped notch.

757
01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:08.239
And so he stated on camera that
they said, well, what does this

758
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:10.800
mean? He says, well,
it suggests it was not taken by an

759
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:16.280
LA Times photographer. All LA Times
photographers used the same film stock. Now,

760
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:22.599
this is so funny how the story
evolves, because that literally literally was

761
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.960
filmed the day before. Wayne Abbott
and the same film crew came to my

762
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:31.480
home to do a segment on triangular
UFOs and when they walked into my research

763
01:01:31.599 --> 01:01:36.840
room, they saw my photo hanging
up, the original photo from forty two,

764
01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:38.519
and they said, yeah, we
just did a story on that.

765
01:01:38.840 --> 01:01:43.239
And he said, I said,
well, that's the original photograph and he

766
01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:45.920
goes, what do you mean.
I said, this is an original photograph

767
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:50.480
from February nineteen forty two. And
when he looked at it and he saw

768
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:53.079
what I saw, the fact that
it's all attributed to the Associated Press,

769
01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:57.559
he says, this makes total sense. He goes, let me show you

770
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.480
the footage we just shot the day
before, and he showed the scene with

771
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:05.920
Simon Elliott, where Simon Elliott states, this is suggested based on this notch

772
01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:08.719
code, it was not taken by
a Los Angeles Times photographer, but they

773
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:15.199
didn't know who enter my picture with
the Associated Press. We now think it

774
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:20.480
was the Associated Press that actually took
the photograph. Now more specifically, and

775
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:23.440
this is what's very interesting. At
the beginning, we talked about researching these

776
01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:27.960
old cases, and you never know
where new data will take you. I

777
01:02:28.280 --> 01:02:31.719
reached out to the individual that sold
me this photograph, and I've actually gotten

778
01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:37.840
to know him quite well with subsequent
interviews by phone and via Skype. The

779
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:42.360
gentleman lives in the Los Angeles area, and on weekends he and his wife

780
01:02:42.679 --> 01:02:46.679
would go to yard sales and the
state sales. One particular Saturday, they

781
01:02:46.760 --> 01:02:50.840
went to a yard sale not very
far from where they lived, he told

782
01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:53.960
me, and while his wife was
looking at miscellaneous items, there were two

783
01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:58.679
folding tables in the front yard,
and under one of the folding tables were

784
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:07.079
two large fileboxes, and each filebox
was filled with old filefolders. Each one

785
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:13.000
had an eight x ten glossy black
and white photo with a news teletype similar

786
01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:15.719
to the one that I described on
the Battle of La photo. And he's

787
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:20.679
looking at these, and he said, Dave, there were wartime photos.

788
01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:24.960
There were photos of Bing Crosby,
Judy Garland, just all types of celebrities

789
01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:30.159
and basically anything that made news in
the forties and fifties. There were photos,

790
01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:35.000
and these were all original and they
all had the original news teletypes glued

791
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:37.760
to the back. And as you
or I would if we were in that

792
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:43.679
situation, the gentleman, his name's
guy asked the woman that apparently was in

793
01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:46.519
charge of the yard sale, ma'am, where did you get all these photos?

794
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:51.880
These are really fascinating, and very
innocently enough, she replies with,

795
01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:57.199
Oh, those belonged to my grandfather. He was a photographer for the Associated

796
01:03:57.239 --> 01:04:03.599
Press, so apparently this was his
personal portfolio of photos that he had taken

797
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:09.599
during his time at the Associated Press. And after seventy five plus years,

798
01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:13.960
I think we now know the name
of the photographer. The photographer, the

799
01:04:14.039 --> 01:04:17.199
grandfather of the woman that was having
the yard sale. Her grandfather's name was

800
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:23.719
Ira W. Goldner, and I
was able to research him, and with

801
01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:29.960
contacting the family, was able to
get additional photos of Ira, photos of

802
01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:34.840
his press badges from the thirties,
forties and fifties, and in fact,

803
01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:41.199
he even had a studio in nineteen
forty two in Hollywood, California. And

804
01:04:41.239 --> 01:04:46.440
when I researched him, if your
audience members listen to this and they google

805
01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:51.800
Ira Goldner, you'll find only two
or three references to him. But one

806
01:04:51.880 --> 01:04:58.000
is a photo of Bing Crosby and
his family and it credits associated Press Ira

807
01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:03.559
Goldner. But more importantly, Alejandro, another photograph shows Los Angeles police rounding

808
01:05:03.639 --> 01:05:09.320
up Japanese citizens and it was dated
I believe February tenth or twelfth of nineteen

809
01:05:09.400 --> 01:05:15.119
forty two in Los Angeles. So
we have Ira Goldner that took this,

810
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:18.679
that had this photo in his portfolio. We have his studio in Hollywood,

811
01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:23.880
California, nineteen forty two, and
online you can find a photograph of him

812
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:28.599
photographing Los Angeles police rounding up Japanese
citizens a week to a week and a

813
01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:31.840
half before the Battle of La incident. So it puts him at the time

814
01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:35.760
and place where he would have had
to have been to take that photo.

815
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:42.840
And the negative, I guess was
found in the Times archives. Correct,

816
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:48.400
the original negative is in the Los
Angeles Times Archives. But to Simon Elliott's

817
01:05:48.400 --> 01:05:51.800
point, and I certainly you and
I during the break, we're talking about

818
01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:57.719
finding credible sources to verify this information. He is the chief archivist for the

819
01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:00.719
Los Angeles Times, and he stayed
on camera. Of the tens of thousands

820
01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:04.280
of negatives that I have, and
I manage here at the Los Angeles Times,

821
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:08.320
I've never seen a negative with a
different notch code. Who knows how

822
01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:12.199
it got there. I guess maybe
just because they decided to purchase it or

823
01:06:12.280 --> 01:06:16.519
use it through the Associated Press more
than like and then just to bolster my

824
01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:21.199
argument. Also in doing my historical
research, I found two other references to

825
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:26.719
the famous photos. One was from
Time Magazine, the March eighth, nineteen

826
01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:30.800
forty two edition, and in it
it shows the famous photo in Time magazine.

827
01:06:30.800 --> 01:06:34.920
Time Magazine actually ran the famous photo
and at the very bottom it credits

828
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:42.199
Associated Press and the Ashville Citizen newspaper. I have an original copy from February

829
01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:45.280
twenty seventh, nineteen forty two.
It ran the famous photo on their front

830
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:49.559
page and at the very bottom it
credits AP as the source of the photo.

831
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:56.239
So you found where it comes from. But what does this photo show?

832
01:06:56.320 --> 01:07:00.719
I mean a lot of people argue
that it shows a dime in shape,

833
01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:04.719
but that also other people argue that
know that diamond shape is actually the

834
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:11.760
convergence of the convergence of the light. Yeah, do you feel you're able

835
01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:16.079
to make anything out? Yes?
I do. But to clarify your point,

836
01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:21.119
the famous photo that's circulating out there
on the internet was a doctored photo

837
01:07:21.440 --> 01:07:26.840
in the sense that there was enhancement
done to the search lights, so that

838
01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:30.960
the photo which still shows the search
lights, I have to clarify that it

839
01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:34.480
still shows the searchlights, but they're
not as intense. And so they used

840
01:07:34.519 --> 01:07:39.400
to do painting and air brushing,
if you will, on the original negatives

841
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:43.320
back in those days, to so
the image would translate better into newsprint,

842
01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:48.320
and so the one that's out there
is not the original negative. Ben Hansen,

843
01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:51.159
while he was there, was able
to secure a high resolution image,

844
01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:56.639
and to your point, it shows
much more clarity. It shows the original

845
01:07:56.880 --> 01:08:00.880
image undoctored, and I think that's
very important. Any work that anyone has

846
01:08:00.920 --> 01:08:06.000
done on the image that's circulating on
the internet is worthless because that was enhanced

847
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:11.360
artificially. So we have to go
back to the original negative and to your

848
01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:16.920
question, after enlarging it, after
dropping the brightness down to where all the

849
01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:23.119
search lights wash out, what you're
left with is essentially what looks like any

850
01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:27.479
lips or an oval shape. I
know it's going to dash a lot of

851
01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:30.880
people's preconceived beliefs against the rocks,
but if you see a flying saucer with

852
01:08:30.920 --> 01:08:35.119
a little dome on top. I'm
sorry, it's just not there on the

853
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:41.399
original photo. The dome that people
often see in the doctored photo, you

854
01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:46.279
can clearly see when you do basic
contrast enhancement, there's three or four explosions

855
01:08:46.760 --> 01:08:53.560
that were taking place at that split
second that the photographer snapped the famous photo.

856
01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:57.760
And you can see this clear as
day. It's not like reading into

857
01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:02.680
the clouds and seeing a giraffe or
an elephant. Very clear and I believe

858
01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:08.399
Alejandro, you saw it during my
recent presentation, and you can very clearly

859
01:09:08.439 --> 01:09:15.359
see these circular or globular explosions of
a much higher light density than this object

860
01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:23.359
or thing that appears to be either
directly behind those explosions or underneath those explosions.

861
01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:27.000
But for people that see a flying
saucer with a little dome on top,

862
01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:30.840
I'm sorry, that's just not what
the original negative shows. But to

863
01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:35.600
your question, we're left with this
mysterious object. Now something else is not

864
01:09:35.640 --> 01:09:41.199
only the object, but the search
lights. And again understanding we're now looking

865
01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:46.800
at the original negative. Some of
the search light beams apparently are reflections,

866
01:09:46.880 --> 01:09:49.880
and I don't mean the ones coming
from the ground up. But on the

867
01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:56.039
original negative there's at least one beam
that shoots off at an oblique angle from

868
01:09:56.079 --> 01:10:00.159
towards the top of the object,
and as you look at the light density,

869
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:03.199
the light density is stronger closer to
the object, and as it tapers

870
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:09.079
away off to the edge of the
photo, the light dissipates. So,

871
01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:12.640
in other words, the source of
that light beam is the object itself,

872
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:17.880
which suggests it's a reflection that whatever
this object was, it was light reflective,

873
01:10:18.439 --> 01:10:23.119
and at least one of these search
light beams is bouncing off of some

874
01:10:23.319 --> 01:10:26.720
type of object. Now we're running
out of time. Unfortunately, I know

875
01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:30.680
it flies, but I guess to
wrap up the picture thing. That's where

876
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:36.640
you've got some ongoing research where you
are continuing to get some analysis done of

877
01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:41.239
the photo. Correct. Yeah,
our mutual friend and colleague marcty' antonio I

878
01:10:41.319 --> 01:10:45.880
recently shared a copy of that high
resolution image and asked him if he could

879
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:50.800
to please try to extrapolate whatever information
he can, if any, from that

880
01:10:50.920 --> 01:10:56.920
original negative image. So that information
is still pending, but I look forward

881
01:10:56.960 --> 01:11:00.359
to seeing if he can glean any
additional detail from that. But again,

882
01:11:00.439 --> 01:11:05.319
my thanks to Ben Hansen for providing
that you know, we all were collaborative.

883
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:09.800
Collaboratively, we can't do it alone. So I want to thank him

884
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:13.640
for his efforts. But you know, this brings us back to something that

885
01:11:13.720 --> 01:11:16.640
I had mentioned in my recent presentation
on this. When we look at a

886
01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:20.960
case, and you alluded to this
at the introduction, Alejandro, when we

887
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:25.960
look at UFO cases, like you
said, many aren't that credible or many

888
01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:30.880
don't have that much corroborative information.
But I always like to point out when

889
01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:33.520
you look at the Battle of La
incident, we're not just dealing with a

890
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:38.560
multiple witness case. Because admittedly,
tens of thousands, if not hundreds of

891
01:11:38.560 --> 01:11:44.800
thousands of witnesses observed this as this
as these series of events played out in

892
01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:47.279
the sky over Los Angeles in the
surrounding area of February twenty fifth, nineteen

893
01:11:47.319 --> 01:11:51.560
forty two. So it's a multiple
witness case in that regard. It's a

894
01:11:51.560 --> 01:11:56.520
photographic case. We have the photo, we have a scan of the original

895
01:11:56.560 --> 01:12:00.399
negative it ran in the newspapers of
the time. It's all radar visual case.

896
01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:04.439
It's not just eyewitness testimony. We're
basing this on. We have radar

897
01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:11.640
confirmation from three radar systems. We
also have military engagement with this object,

898
01:12:11.800 --> 01:12:16.680
whatever it was, where we fired
on it repeatedly with multiple weapons. And

899
01:12:16.840 --> 01:12:24.760
as a result of that episode,
we have official documentation documenting that, yes,

900
01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:27.840
these events did happen. And then
of course we have all of the

901
01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:31.479
newspaper accounts as well. So when
you roll all that together, I would

902
01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:34.680
argue, yes, this is an
old case, but many of the new

903
01:12:34.720 --> 01:12:40.920
cases we have don't have even close
to this amount of information exactly, And

904
01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:45.880
I think that's a great point.
And you know, records are still records,

905
01:12:45.800 --> 01:12:54.640
so especially with this case, and
when over l A, I mean

906
01:12:54.800 --> 01:13:00.119
just after Pearl Harbor, obviously it's
going to be a very very very big

907
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:06.079
deal. And surprisingly right just that
nobody died from the shrapnel falling, surprisingly

908
01:13:06.159 --> 01:13:11.600
surprised. Yes, people did pass
away from like heart attacks. There were

909
01:13:11.600 --> 01:13:15.399
five or six deaths, unfortunately,
which you know I always like to make

910
01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:17.680
mention of people tend to laugh at
this, you know, the skeptics laugh

911
01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:19.640
at it, but you know,
at the end of the day, it

912
01:13:19.720 --> 01:13:24.600
was a chapter in World War two
history and a sad reality is to your

913
01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:27.880
point, five or six people did
die. They died of heart attacks and

914
01:13:28.079 --> 01:13:31.199
vehicular accidents. Some people were trying
to drive during the blackout, which is

915
01:13:31.239 --> 01:13:34.319
not exactly the smartest thing to do. And then, of course, with

916
01:13:34.399 --> 01:13:38.840
the heightened state of anxiety, for
people that were already maybe predisposed to have

917
01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:43.640
heart conditions, there were two or
three heart attacks. So some people did

918
01:13:43.680 --> 01:13:46.119
die as a result of this,
and I always like to make mention of

919
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:49.119
that fact. And you know,
remember them, you know, I mentioned

920
01:13:49.159 --> 01:13:54.920
their names and my presentation just to
pay tribute to those individuals that unfortunately lost

921
01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:58.840
their lives. MM. Well,
thank you so much. This is just

922
01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:02.119
a great case. Now. I
wanted to just go over it during the

923
01:14:02.199 --> 01:14:06.920
show. However, your lecture,
which is very well organized and laid out,

924
01:14:08.880 --> 01:14:13.199
you did it during the seventy fifth
anniversary essentially of the event. We

925
01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:15.760
were just I believe days from the
seventy fifth anniversary almost to the day.

926
01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:19.159
So that was a really nice opportunity. I want to thank you for Oh

927
01:14:19.319 --> 01:14:23.520
you kidding, it was our pleasure. It's amazing. So and you can

928
01:14:23.680 --> 01:14:30.319
watch that in the twenty seventeen lectures
at the video on demand for the UFO

929
01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:34.119
Congress. But we're out of time, of course, the time flies.

930
01:14:34.199 --> 01:14:39.159
Thank you so much for joining us
once once again, thank you, Thank

931
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:43.039
you so much to David Marler for
joining us on the show. I will

932
01:14:43.079 --> 01:14:46.800
put in the show notes a link
to his website, but also a link

933
01:14:46.880 --> 01:14:51.520
to his talk at the UFO Congress
on Battle of La because even though we

934
01:14:51.600 --> 01:14:56.720
got to cover quite a bit,
we did not cover everything, and he

935
01:14:56.880 --> 01:15:00.319
does so in his talk, and
not only that, it's laid out very

936
01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:06.800
logically, very organized, and it
really is the best way to see everything

937
01:15:06.840 --> 01:15:13.960
about this incredible case from nineteen forty
two, the Battle of La It has

938
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:16.359
a great name. Also, so
thank you so much to David Marler.

939
01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:21.640
He was wonderful as usual. Thank
you to Martin Willis for joining us with

940
01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:26.079
the news. You can find all
the news that we talked about at Openminds

941
01:15:26.079 --> 01:15:30.520
dot tv, where you can also
see a link to my Patreon page where

942
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:35.640
you can see some of my dentive
geek articles, including the space tourism stuff

943
01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:40.279
that we talked about earlier. And
I have a new article too on the

944
01:15:40.359 --> 01:15:44.760
science Fair. So this is a
documentary that's really cool. It's about this

945
01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:47.520
high school science fair. It's the
biggest in the country. All these people

946
01:15:47.560 --> 01:15:51.960
from all the world around the world
come and compete and these kids are amazing.

947
01:15:53.079 --> 01:16:00.359
I mean, the projects are really
groundbreaking. They're important projects that change

948
01:16:00.079 --> 01:16:05.680
the different fields that you know they're
entered into. So you'll definitely want to

949
01:16:05.760 --> 01:16:11.960
check out that documentary and check out
my article which includes interviews from the directors.

950
01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:15.079
So it's a lot of fun.
Find that on my Patreon Otherwise,

951
01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:20.680
the UFO Congress. The UFO Congress
Video on Demand page has more videos,

952
01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:28.800
so almost all the twenty eighteen lectures
from the UFO Congress are up there now,

953
01:16:29.039 --> 01:16:31.079
so there's hundreds of lectures that you
could see there. Just for a

954
01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:34.199
few bucks a month, you can
have access to all of them, or

955
01:16:34.239 --> 01:16:36.960
if you just want to watch one, you can do that too. So

956
01:16:38.640 --> 01:16:42.359
that link is also in the show
notes, and you can go to Ufocongress

957
01:16:42.439 --> 01:16:45.399
dot com or at the top of
open mindstat tv in the upper right you

958
01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:48.680
also see a link to that.
Be sure to join our email list to

959
01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:55.800
keep up on everything going on for
open mindstat TV and the UFO Congress.

960
01:16:55.920 --> 01:16:59.439
Again, you can find that out
open mindstat TV. Check out all of

961
01:16:59.479 --> 01:17:04.640
the cool news stuff that we're posting
on the open minds Video YouTube page.

962
01:17:05.239 --> 01:17:11.800
We have our UFO Seriously Live and
other videos going up there, including a

963
01:17:11.840 --> 01:17:15.720
new video real soon with David Marler
and others from the Devil's Tower UFO of

964
01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:19.640
Rendezvous event that was a few weeks
ago. And I've got a great video

965
01:17:19.720 --> 01:17:25.960
going up with interviews from those guys
very soon here. Otherwise, I want

966
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:30.159
to, of course think Caleb Hanks
for the opening and close music. It

967
01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:33.920
rocks. If you go to the
Open Mind GFO radio page on Open Minds

968
01:17:33.960 --> 01:17:36.479
at TV, you'll have a link
there and you can read more about Caleb

969
01:17:36.520 --> 01:17:42.119
Hanks. And then also and his
brother Micah Hanks is actually in those videos

970
01:17:42.119 --> 01:17:44.880
that I'm talking about that i'll be
putting up that I've put up one and

971
01:17:44.880 --> 01:17:46.840
I'll be putting another. He was
at the Devil's Tower UFO event as a

972
01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:51.039
speaker. Also, I'll be at
Alien Con in Baltimore. I think I

973
01:17:51.119 --> 01:17:56.479
mentioned that earlier. So that's gonna
be a lot of fun. So check

974
01:17:56.520 --> 01:17:59.279
that out, especially if you're on
the East coast. Come say hi,

975
01:17:59.319 --> 01:18:02.039
I think I'm going to do you
like three or four different events there,

976
01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:08.680
lectures and different things like that.
But also of course thank you the listeners.

977
01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:12.880
This has been another great show and
we'll have another great show for you

978
01:18:12.920 --> 01:18:17.760
next week. Thank you also much
for listening, and until next time audios

979
01:18:17.960 --> 01:19:13.159
moved, duchos, you were motionless.