WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:05.559 Unraveling Misinformation. In this segment, we'll discuss the impact of misinformation on society. 2 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:09.439 At first glance, this may just be an article geared towards psychology or 3 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:13.199 the politics of information. But taking a closer look, could there be a 4 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:17.280 greater message. Jason Friedman is here to break it down. Jason So. 5 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:22.160 In a recent study, economist John Lists along with his colleagues, they conducted 6 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:26.440 a real world experiment to see whether simple, low cost nudges can be effective 7 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:32.079 in helping consumers to reject misinformation. The economists conducted their field experiment in the 8 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:37.479 run up to the twenty twenty two presidential campaign or presidential election in Columbia. 9 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.439 Like the US, they're extremely extremely polarized. To figure out effective ways to 10 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:47.479 lower the demand for misinformation, the economists recruited over two thousand Columbians to gauge 11 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:51.320 whether these nudges get participants to be more critical of misinformation. Each group has 12 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:55.960 shown a series of headlines some fakes, I'm real. Those who saw videos 13 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:00.320 of opposing size getting along, We're thirty percent less likely to believe misinformformation. 14 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:04.760 The researchers also found that the personality test had little or no effect on their 15 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:10.799 propensity to believe or reject fake news. The economists also found that participants who 16 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:15.280 both took the tests and watched the video became so skeptical that they were about 17 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:19.799 thirty percent less likely to view true headlines as reliable. So in a world 18 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.280 of AI and deep fakes, one can't be too skeptical, can they? 19 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:29.560 Well? I think they can be. They should be right because the misinformation, 20 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:36.400 the control of information is an age old center of gravity. It pulls 21 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:38.480 it, It has so much of an impact on the things around it. 22 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:45.400 Everything is pulled towards information because it is the precursor to so many things that 23 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:49.159 happened. So, Jason, reading this article, what was the most striking 24 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.799 You laid out quite a few statistics there, but what was the most striking 25 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.040 piece of information you walked away with? Why? I really like the last 26 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:04.120 point that was brought up about how when they were given a chance to kind 27 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:08.120 of look at themselves and see how they process information on top of the videos 28 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:14.759 they were shown, they realize that, holy shit, there is so much 29 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:20.759 misinformation being put out and I mean so much in comparison to truth, right, 30 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.840 verifiable truth, that they're like, even if this is true, I 31 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:29.439 don't fucking believe it. And the idea of being too skeptical to me is 32 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:36.360 interesting because I'm more than happy to reject or to not reject all hypothesis, 33 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.240 right, I'm happy to accept it, right, It's I'm happy to be 34 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:42.680 like, Okay, this isn't the case. I would much rather come from 35 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:46.479 that angle as opposed to automatically accepting something than having to prove myself wrong. 36 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:51.599 It seems so ass backwards, but we're conditioned, especially in a society, 37 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:53.800 I mean shit, growing up here in South here in Texas, downstream from 38 00:02:53.840 --> 00:03:00.680 Lakewood Church, you're conditioned to accept first and to accept the thor and except 39 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:02.960 first, and then you have to get whittled down. You know, critical 40 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:07.960 thinking isn't really valued in the in these communities. And we can see time 41 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:12.759 and time again and study after study of study that those people who have a 42 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:19.719 propensity to believe fake news tend to also be more fundamentalist, tend to have 43 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:30.080 a propensity to reject science, to reject observable facts of the universe in exchange 44 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:35.039 for theology. I think that that I think that that statistic, that less 45 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:38.879 statistic thirty percent less likely to believe misinformation is pretty striking, And Kelly, 46 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:44.719 I wanted to ask you, what does it say that so many people realized 47 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.439 that they couldn't trust the things that they were being told after this study. 48 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:52.199 Well, I think what it says is a lot of people haven't been thinking 49 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:55.520 for themselves before that that they were starting, they start actually realized how to 50 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:59.840 do that. And I think that's what was the most important part of the 51 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:03.240 studying myself. Not to disagree with you again, Jason, was not the 52 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:06.919 amount of people that got to that point, but how did they get to 53 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:13.560 that point? And it seems like having a being exposed to good, congrational, 54 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:20.240 non aggressive, non confrontational discussion with somebody representing both sides got more people 55 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:25.439 there than any other process. And I think that was really really important, 56 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:28.399 and it's something that I've been trying to stress a lot. You know, 57 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:30.879 this is the way we need to deal with theis more. I think we 58 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.680 want to be non confrontational. We want to show them that we can be 59 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:40.639 people too, we can even be the better person. And that's really really 60 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:43.920 important, I think to come across and it's not just with the person that 61 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.160 you're dealing with, but it's very important to the people who are watching that. 62 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:51.399 That's who this study was done with, people who are watching that conversation. 63 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:55.560 So yeah, I think that that's really important. I thought that was 64 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:58.680 really interesting. In the most important part of it, You know, that 65 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.319 study is here toward people that were not even involved, because now the second 66 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.720 and third order effects of that is that we're all sitting here talking about it, 67 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:11.319 and other people are going to come into knowing about this article, knowing 68 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:15.879 about this study that took place, and understand, even if they're watching us 69 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:18.839 with some criticism in mind, understand that there are people out there that are 70 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:25.199 having some conversations that are being challenged, even if they think just like they 71 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:29.319 do. So I think that was striking to me. And you know, 72 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:32.720 I also want to say that information control, I said this earlier, dates 73 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:38.160 back to nearly all cultures and achieving victory, right Sun Zou Sun Sue said, 74 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:43.519 impact your enemy's control of information and this and don't allow your enemy to 75 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:47.800 control your information. We still abide by those principles in combat and preparing for 76 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:53.839 conflict today, but I think that in the media and in the political arena 77 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:59.480 especially, it's almost like a battleground because the control of information and the influence 78 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:02.600 of information. Uh is so disingenuous, but it's meant to knock the other 79 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:05.759 person out of the competition. I just wanted to see what what your thoughts 80 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:10.720 were on that after after your analysis, Jason, does that compute with you? 81 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.639 No, no one does compute with me. And I think what Kelly, 82 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:16.560 what you're talking about, and what Kelly was saying about people being able 83 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:20.959 to have amicable, amicable discussions being really important. You know, we were 84 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:25.000 talking before we know, before we filmed, and I had mentioned to you 85 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.160 all about having a lot of my close friends are religious, you know, 86 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.199 and I really and then also all of us discussing how much we like to 87 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:33.720 argue with each other, my friends, and then all all you know, 88 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:39.240 all three of us, and then you know, the producers and everybody. 89 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.800 Kelly loves argue with me. Kelly and I argue a lot, actually, 90 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:45.360 and uh, it's like a lot actually on a CD and talking just between 91 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:47.120 each other. I know, I am a fucking dick, and I'm proud 92 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.360 of it. That's cool, man, you know, I can and I 93 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:51.680 can live with that. But at the same time, if I'm wrong, 94 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:58.120 I'm like I was wrong about that. What I like about especially like like 95 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:00.759 the buddies I trained with, you know, I mentioned them a lot. 96 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:03.920 They're all different religions and like a good mix actually, and and different cultures 97 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.639 from different places in the world. And we're all close friends and beat the 98 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:11.720 shit out of each other. But like we argue about pretty important shit. 99 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:15.759 We talk about his social justice, we talk about religion, talk about Christian 100 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.439 nationalism, talk about atheism, talk about all that stuff openly. That's all 101 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:23.600 those things they tell you not to talk about that exactly, you know, 102 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:28.199 And I have I think I might have a kink for like having religious friends. 103 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:30.160 I don't know. I love it because I like being my open self 104 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.759 about everything I'm into and what I'm not into and blah blah blah. But 105 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:36.160 also being like, hey, bro, you don't judge me. I don't 106 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:39.600 judge you is you're cool with me, and I can trust you around my 107 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:42.079 kid. You're not going to like harm my kid or steal my shit. 108 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:44.800 We're probably in a good place right now, right Are you a good sparring 109 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:46.319 partner? Can I trust you? There? Cool? Now? I respect 110 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:49.279 you more than almost anybody. Let's just work from there and see what happens. 111 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:53.920 And I think there's where you see more commonalities and allies, and maybe 112 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.959 by people observing that. Sorry, it's a roundabout way of getting to this. 113 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:01.920 People observing that can see, Hey, that fucking weird tattooed guy with 114 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:07.959 the shirt with pentagrams and my Muslim coach are really close friends. Like oh, 115 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:09.639 maybe, like I can be cool with people that are different than me. 116 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.120 I don't know, you know what I mean. And it's it's I 117 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.399 think it's a really cool thing. I didn't even really think about it that 118 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:16.360 way. So, yeah, Kelly, you made a good point, man. 119 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.800 Yeah, And Kelly, do you think that after realizing that they can't 120 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:26.160 trust what they're being told, that some of these people might actually also realize, 121 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.079 holy shit, I'm a victim of my own tribe. Yeah, oh 122 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.000 yeah, totally, totally. I didn't. That's what I went through most. 123 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.440 I think a lot of people who become atheists, that that convert to 124 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:41.919 atheism go through that process like holy crap, and these people have just been 125 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:46.639 deluding me my whole life. And yeah, I was victimized, and that 126 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:48.679 that's the birth of the angry atheist. Right. That's right, right, 127 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.159 that is right, yep, I was, and that is what I mean 128 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:58.559 made me the angry atheist, the realizations that I had about the information I 129 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.879 was receiving. Jason, I want, I want to harken back to something 130 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.080 that you said because I think this is important. So I've done jiu jitsu 131 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:11.000 in combat sports as well, and the lack of information in those scenarios is 132 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:15.639 also quite special because just hear me out on this, I might not know 133 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.159 anything about anyone that I train with, but I still know them. I 134 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:24.679 know them in a way that I don't know anybody else. I don't know 135 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:26.840 my own mother, I don't know my wife, my best friend in the 136 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.840 same way that I do when I'm fighting somebody, you know what I mean. 137 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:37.039 And it's such a special relationship and to have that without the outside noise 138 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.120 is something that's unique to those situations. I just wanted to see if you 139 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:46.120 can expand on that. Oh dude, I man, I look so for 140 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.200 Okay, So okay, anybody who does combat of sports knows that you're only 141 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.399 not hurting whenever you're fighting, right, you know, So everybody knows that. 142 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.320 So I look so look forward to sparring. We have sparring Tuesday, 143 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.240 Wednesday, Thursday where we're doing ca drills and small gloves and you know, 144 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.759 really just laying into each other. Man, I look so forward to that. 145 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.639 You know, got my buddy who's an Orthodox chew. Got my other 146 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:09.639 buddy who's a Christian, My other buddy who is Islamic. My other buddy 147 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:11.440 is into this, you know, one of my buddy. You know. 148 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.159 We got a black dude, we got a we got a Russian dude, 149 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:18.559 we got a Hispanic dude. We got me you know, tattooed u Jewish 150 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:20.399 guy. Right. I mean it's a cool mix of people. And I 151 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.759 fucking look so forward to that, and I cherish those times, you know. 152 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:26.960 And then we sit there and we beat the shit out of each other, 153 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.240 and that's kind of like the foreplay to like, hey, let's have 154 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:33.639 a cool conversation afterwards, right, and then you hit you like and like 155 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.799 you said, that connection do you have with these dudes, Like it's it's 156 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.279 it's it's intimate, you know, and you because you're sitting there, you're 157 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.840 working on something that's so important to you. That's like the thing that like 158 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:48.320 anybody who fights in this kind of especially jiu jitsu, and you obsess over 159 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:50.919 it all day long, all day I think you make a good point about 160 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:54.679 that being the foreplay, because you really, when you eliminate the static, 161 00:10:54.840 --> 00:11:00.399 you eliminate that information, right, you're actually building credibility. Right, we 162 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.039 get a lot and it doesn't have to be combat sports, right, it 163 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.240 could be could be pretty much anything. Kelly. You're a geologist, right, 164 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:09.639 and you you're you're smart in the ways of science. You've got to 165 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.600 come across some people that you're only talking science, right, You're only talking 166 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:18.399 yeah, yeah, you're only talking the things that matter in that moment. 167 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.720 And then you probably find that once you've established a human connection, you know, 168 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.279 you could open it up to other things and find this person is not 169 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.159 so bad. I don't know what what's your experience been like in that arena? 170 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:33.200 Yeah, my best friend up here in Michigan. That's how we met 171 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:37.159 each other, was talking rocks and then I mean we unfortunately he's gone now, 172 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:41.279 but yeah, that's how I met him and talking one thing, we're 173 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.879 both geologists, and then the next thing, I know, you know, 174 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.240 we know each other for ten years and became brothers. It was awesome. 175 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:50.240 Yeah, And you know, going back to the martial arts thing, I 176 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:54.840 did a little bit myself and it was in our school on Saturdays. It 177 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:58.679 was wasn't required, but it was kind of traditional that when we were done 178 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:01.039 for the day, we'd all go out to day together. You know, 179 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:03.720 we'd beat each other up for an hour and a half and then go then 180 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.519 go share a meal. So yeah, of course, absolutely so So Kelly, 181 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:09.960 I want to ask you, though we've we've done several segments tonight, 182 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.519 and in a couple of them you referenced history, and you know, we've 183 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:18.279 talked about the roots of Christianity and things like that. How does information now 184 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.120 the way it's used differ, in your opinion, from the way it used 185 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:26.879 to be used, Because in my opinion, I think a lack of information 186 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:31.279 in the in the Middle Ages and in the early Church years was the way 187 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:35.600 that people were controlled. But now there's so much information that people are almost 188 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:41.440 manipulating it because they can't control its absence. So what are you not almost 189 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.720 they are manipula manipulating it, right, That's that's the that's the thing. 190 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.320 And I'm not sure when that change happened. I'm pretty sure it happened within 191 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:52.639 my lifetime, though I just didn't notice it happened because it wasn't like a 192 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.320 switch that turned down. It was just a slow thing where we started where 193 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:01.799 information started to be taking over by large corporations for the most part, so 194 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:05.240 we were only getting filtered things, the things that they wanted us to know. 195 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:07.720 Now the rest of it was out there. That was one of the 196 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:11.399 great things about the Internet is that that information that that was being suppressed was 197 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.399 out there. Unfortunately, there was a bunch of other information that, oh, 198 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.000 they don't want you to know this, so you think it's something that's 199 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.480 suppressed, but it's all bullshit too, a bunch of pseudoscience, a bunch 200 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:28.000 of pseudohistory, pseudo archaeology, and that became a problem. And you know, 201 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.639 on the very first time I was ever on an ACA show, I 202 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:35.000 said, the Internet needs to be peer reviewed, and I stand by that 203 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.759 today. So yeah, well we are the peer review, aren't we. 204 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.759 Right now we are reviewing the accuracy of some of that stuff, and so 205 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:50.159 were the people in the study. And I really want to hearken or I 206 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:52.159 say, I use that word already, but you know, stay focused on 207 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:56.759 this idea of victimization, because there are people that look to information and look 208 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:01.720 to the Internet for reassurance of their beliefs, but what they get is such 209 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:05.759 a hyper version of that. For example, nowadays, in the political climate, 210 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:11.679 you might see a presidential candidate riding on a shark with a very Schwarzenegger 211 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:16.519 like body, holding a machine gun and an American flag, you know what 212 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.480 I mean, and people are like, yeah, people are like, man, 213 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:22.360 this is this is what I stand for. Right, But it's like, 214 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.159 no, no, you don't go look at the other picture of your 215 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:31.919 so or quote unquote candidate right, who is very solemn praying. The guy's 216 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.279 got six fingers. I mean, you need to know, you need to 217 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.639 know when you're being fed bullshit, right, And I think you know, 218 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:43.039 having these conversations does that so yeah, Jason, I just want to kind 219 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.120 of go back to you, same question for you. Do you see a 220 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:50.399 difference in how informations use now versus the way we understood it maybe in earlier 221 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:54.240 years. I mean yes or no. I mean if you look at any 222 00:14:54.679 --> 00:15:00.639 established empire with people who have some form of access information, I mean there's 223 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:03.840 the dissemination of information is highly monitored and controlled. You know, see this 224 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:07.360 whenever Christian controlled countries and shit like that. So we don't need to go 225 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:11.200 into a history lesson. I think right now it's still a lack of information. 226 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.480 I think we're still have a where in an information desert, not because 227 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:18.639 the information isn't there, but you've just got such an influx of so much 228 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:26.279 fucking trash and just so much other quote information because I think when we're saying 229 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:31.120 information, we're talking about things that support like good shit, right I mean, 230 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:33.559 that's probably how we could define it. When we're talking about information. 231 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.960 Right now, we're like cool shit that's factual and real and beneficial and interesting 232 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:41.399 and verifiable, like you know, some good shit. But there's a lot 233 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:46.240 of info. There's a lot of just fucking just noise just smashing into your 234 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:52.759 fucking eye holes and ear holes and sense holes all day. So it's I 235 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.039 think what happens is you still have an information deficit because you can only really 236 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.000 take in so much until you're just like, ah, my brain's tied. 237 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.559 But then you put on noise and chatter that repeats and repeats and repeats and 238 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.440 repeats. Think about the songs that are popular. You just repeat and repeat 239 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.440 and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat, repeat and repeat, you know. 240 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.360 So that's what we're stuck in. So I think it is a lack 241 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.639 of information, just in a different way, Kelly. And one of the 242 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.440 problems when you get all that information and you're filtering out just some of it 243 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.399 because that's all you can absorb. Yes, you're you're absorbing the stuff that 244 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.159 you want to hear. Yeah, and that's a big problem too, so 245 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:30.559 that you're not doing any critical thinking. You're just like, oh, this 246 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.679 says something that's right along with what I believe, so that must be true. 247 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.600 Well, yeah, then you're training your like kind of default mode network 248 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.360 to constantly like settle into that cycle and settle into it. And if you're 249 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.840 not challenging it, shit doesn't fucking start firing try to grab new shit. 250 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.120 So that's a big problem, and I agree with you. I think that 251 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.679 that's what was interesting about this study is that the people that realized that they 252 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.480 probably don't trust what they're being told, it only came. It only came 253 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:59.720 after they were forced to face that, right, Yeah, So I think 254 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.879 that was pretty significant. What you know, over the years, we've heard 255 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:07.279 this thing about the human uh, the human attention span shortening. How do 256 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.839 you guys think that that factors into our ability to absorb information? Good or 257 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.319 bad or or whatever the case may be. I I don't know if the 258 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.759 human attention span is shortening. I think it's I don't know if any studies 259 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.960 to Jason, I know you're the mind guide, you know of any that 260 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.680 have done in that area. But I think it's a perception. You know, 261 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.920 like people had less to do one hundred years ago. They didn't have 262 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.920 a phone in their hand, they didn't have computers, they didn't have the 263 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.759 ability to go to the theater, they didn't have the ability to hop in 264 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:41.200 their car and go visit somebody, so they would sit right, I mean 265 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.839 that's what you think longer. Yeah, right, So it's not that it's 266 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:48.720 not that the attention span has has gotten shorter. It's just that we have 267 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:53.160 more things to give our attention to. Right. So, when I was 268 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:59.519 going through uh like group psychology and adult psychology, we taught one of my 269 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.480 favorite things talk about is critical thinking and reasoning and concrete operations like black and 270 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:11.200 white thinking. And one of the biggest criticisms of I guess just the Western 271 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:18.240 American structure of education and thinking and social expectations and information is that we are 272 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:23.240 not required to think critically. We don't have to it's so what they're seeing 273 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:27.440 is a very cool well well that and well, and it's more than that. 274 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:33.079 It's it's not it's not culturally expected. So what they're seeing, bear 275 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:37.880 with me, is that critical thinking and reasoning and the ability to do that. 276 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:42.960 And I guess like the post formal where dialectics and pragmatism and gray areas 277 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:48.240 and reasoning and understanding how to work with the world and not just black, 278 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.200 white, good, bad, stinky not stinky you know, I mean, 279 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.480 well not even stinky smell. You know. It has to be expected by 280 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.240 your social circle, by your social environment, by yours. There needs to 281 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:07.079 be a pressure that causes you to do it. So critical thinking is a 282 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.359 thing that you have to do. In order to do it, you have 283 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.359 to train it. And if it's not expected by your society, which is 284 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.559 again you asked, is there anything behind this? If it's not expected by 285 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.680 your society, then that pressure isn't going to be there. And if you're 286 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:27.160 in places and situations to where you don't have to search out resources and access 287 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:33.200 to information and you don't have to rely on cunning, you can it only 288 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:36.519 makes sense that that would correlate with what they're talking about So that's where my 289 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:37.920 mind goes when I think about that. Yeah, that's a great point, 290 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.000 Kelly. You have anything to add on to that, you know. I 291 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.759 probably the best thing that I can say right now is, Tomember, remember 292 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:52.119 that the best way to convince somebody is to have a non confrontational conversation. 293 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:59.400 I might disagree. Well, that's that's what that study just showed those Yeah 294 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.440 fuck you. Well no, I only said that because you got me. 295 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:08.880 No. Well, I think sorry, I think confrontational is is healthy, 296 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:15.680 but it's confrontational with the non aggressive. How about with that with the for 297 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:21.759 resolution? Okay, intent matters, Intent matters in the Yeah, sorry, 298 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.519 I just wanted to It's okay, it's okay. I thank you, guys. 299 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.119 I just I want to, you know, put an experience that I 300 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.559 had. You know. I I met with an old college professor a few 301 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.119 years ago and we talked about how, you know, the course of teaching 302 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:40.319 is changing, and he said, you know, and I got my degree 303 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:41.319 in history, and he goes, you know, I don't. I don't 304 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:47.839 really expect people to remember dates or or or names anymore because they have it 305 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.279 in their phone. Now I'm teaching them more of how to find it and 306 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.240 how to think critically about it. And I think that that is a huge 307 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.200 transition. And so you know, for this segment, I want I want 308 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:02.319 our viewers to take away the fact that we talked about the way that information 309 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.079 can be used, the way it can be weaponized, the way that we 310 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:10.920 rely on it, and the importance of breaking it down because this study of 311 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:15.759 this article shows that even in your most preconceived notions, your strongest convictions, 312 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:18.599 there's still room to challenge those things.