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Wade fifty to get fifty percent off. Now PW Torchen Spreaker bring you the

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Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's
time for this week's Interview Classic, where

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Wade Killer interviews one of pro Wrestling's
newsmakers ten years ago. This month,

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I had a reality TV show producer
and x WWWE creative team member on the

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show to deconstruct the premier episode of
Total Divas. That's John Piermarini, who

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has experience working behind the scenes in
WWWE with some of the people on that

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show and also worked for America's Got
Talent on network television. You might still

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be there. Actually. We also
had more insight from him on working with

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fitstick Man on the creative process,
including advice on how to present ideas to

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him. He also analyzed how to
be changed from his perspective since he was

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there in the two thousand nine twenty
ten period. He also reacted to the

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Restomania twenty nine by rate, looked
ahead to WrestleMania thirty, and much more

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with live callers and email questions.
This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

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Interview Classic for Friday, August eleventh, twenty twenty three. This interview originally

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live streamed on August second, twenty
thirteen, again ten years ago this month.

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Here we go with this fascinating and
full of insight interview which John pier

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Marine. Welcome to the p wtrche
live tast I am Wade Keller, Editor

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and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch
newsletter since nineteen eighty seven, still mailed

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up round the world worldwide once a
week and also available in PDF and a'll

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text formative VIP members at at the
PW Torch VAP website. Also editor of

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the Pwtorch dot com websites nineteen ninety
nine and the PW Torch apps since two

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thousand and nine, available on pretty
much all smartphone app store devices and also

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host of the pw Torch webcast for
over three and a half years in counting.

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We are here every single day,
Monday through Friday. We're here Tuesday

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through Friday at five thirty Eastern for
an hour or so, and Monday's in

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the hour leading into Raw. This
is Friday, so therefore it is Interview

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Friday and our guest today and just
a couple of minutes, it's going to

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be John Piermarinio, returning guest of
the program to talk about current events in

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WWE, including the Total Divas program
and also the latest Sava swe We'll look

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ahead to Wrestle many A thirties line
up, look back at the rest of

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many a twenty nine VIY rate with
all the financial information that came out yesterday

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in World Wrestling Entertainment's quarterly financial statements, plus look at SummerSlam, the push

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of Danielbrian to the top, and
more. A lot has happened since John

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Piermarini was a writer on the creative
team in ww E a few years ago,

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and we'll get his take on what
he of things today. But first

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we hear a little background noise because
we're gonna be joined briefly by a familiar

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voice. Torch senior columnist Bruce Mitchell, who is live on location this weekend

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since yesterday and through the weekend at
the annual mid Atlantic Wrestling fan Fest convention.

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Bruce, are you there? Yes, I am excellent. What's going

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on there at the convention? Who
are some of the names? And to

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share a couple of stories with us. Let's say, just watched the sitting

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in the lobby watching magnun Ta catch
up with mister wrestling number two. Magnam

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Ta is probably one of the big
highlights of this so far. They question

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an answer about the equipment match at
Starcade in nineteen eighty five between Maguntia and

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Tully Blanchard and to see those two
on the stage with their history. Of

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course, matt sis been put on
a lot of w DVDs, including the

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WV Cage Match TV because it's such
an intense match to say and well remembered.

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But those two, you know,
Magnantier was in a car crash and

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then his wrestling career, and to
see how well he's doing and I don't

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mean physically, although he's doing well
physically compared to what he's been in the

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path, but to see how how
grunt, how he's accepted what's happened to

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him and did very responsible to what
he's done with his family, what he's

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done with his business, and how
he how he handled himself. And the

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fact that these two Magnantia is married
to Tully Blancher's ex wife and has raised

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two of Tully Glancher's children as as
a stepfather. And so, you know,

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you never really know that such a
personal thing, you never really know

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how that goes. And clearly they've
had a long path, a long difficult

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path, but they come to a
place where, you know, the whole

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world's full of different types of families
and all kinds of blended families, and

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they have clearly come to the other
side and appreciate and respect each other.

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And both were talking about that and
a pretty amazing thing to see. That

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was definitely the highlight you know so
far, you know, and Tolly Glance

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would do it. You know,
it's not had had an easy life since

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he left the mainstream of wrestling doing
well just what you know, lots of

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folks Tommy Richard, in a few
minutes, it's gonna be the hall of

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Heroes banquet, Lawrence Anderson, one
of the Anderson the one of the original

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Anderson brothers, were returning to this
area for the first time in thirty years.

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Lock and All Express, Midnight Express, Jim Cornette left thatcher, Jerry

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Jarrett here and then tonight. It's
something I'm really excited about. You know,

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we helped with the Kickstarter campaign for
the documentary Jim Crockert Promotions, The

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Glory Days, and I mean Michael
Elliott, the director, the producer about

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it. I mean literally got it
done at the at on midnight a week

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and a half ago to get so
that they could be produced and ready for

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this for the thing. And you're
writing a newsletter column exactly the deadline.

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Yeah, and exactly and and and
hopefully go as a results that I come

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up with. But you know the
first time that Jim Crockett and David Crockette

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have talked on on record about Jim
Crocker promotions, about their father, about

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the whole promotions, about everything that
happened, including the end, and you

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know, a premiere a movie.
And I helped with this movie. So

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I'm really I really, I mean
I really hope not just because of that's

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just it's a subject I think that
deserves deserves but I you know, to

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see that tonight ought to be a
bit, you know, ought to be

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a big thing. So it's a
public screening, Bruce. So people who

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are listening to us live and in
the air and live in the area,

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they can actually get out there still
and and uh see maybe okay, I

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would say maybe. I mean,
it just depends you you got to got

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to buy a DVD or you have
to do you have to be part of

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the kickstarter program or isn't it okay? Alright like that, So and of

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looking on just lots of lots of
different wrestlers from a lot of different times

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around and talking a lot of the
writers and authors of some of the books

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to So yeah, definitely definitely did
some contact with that, talking to people

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and and doing that the tomorrow tomorrow's
some wrestling with Davy Richards and then he

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Edwards and there was a four day
there was a four day training with Tom

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Pritchard and Jeffy Riska involved with a
lot of the wrestlers and just really interesting

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what Bruce, what city, what
city is it in? And and is

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it and it's every the first weekend
of August every year. I think it's

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gonna be that it's in Charlotte,
North Carolina at the University Hilton. I

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should say that they owe Anderson here
just you know, it's one of the

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fishs. You look around and go, hey they're so and so, Hey

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is that who I think it is? And and see a lot of people

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like walking the street to Bella and
seeing movie stars, except it's wrestlers in

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your as you're wrestling fan. Yeah, if you're wrestling fan and you know

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who the people are, so it's
yeah, they definitely and then just a

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lot of people from a lot of
errors of professional wrestling. So how many

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years has it been this convention been
going on? Drews nine years? Yeah,

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it's like the nine one in one
more year. So our friend Jim

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Valley, who we had on the
first time meeting him, flew all the

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way from from Washington State to be
here and so he's you know, mostly

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to meet you and enjoined it.
I don't know about that, but definitely

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liked this quality wality can so yeah, it's pretty cool. You know,

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a pretty cool deal on that's pretty
that's we'll see so well, but yeah,

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I know I know I'm missing stuff, but I know I'm missing like

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some of the some of the other
highlights. But but you know, this

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is a banquet just a few minutes
and I or I'd be doing more for

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this starting at six o'clock. And
and that's always you know, you know,

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in different tables, everybody gets to
sit with with somebody famous and talk

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to them and interact with them.
And oh yeah, I should say,

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our friend J. J. Dillon
say, oh great, I guess on

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the show. We just got a
really nice email, Bruce, from somebody

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who saw J. J. Dillon
at that Medicine Score Garden show and I

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think maybe the first wrestling show I
ever went to. And he remembered that

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00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:20.159
card as well as JJ did,
and uh just emailed how special it was

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00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.000
to hear JJ tell that story and
he wanted to thank you for asking a

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00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.279
great question. Oh cool, Well, JJ was, you know, really

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appreciative of being on the show.
And Scott Tell, who published the book,

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00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:35.039
thank us. They definitely got some
worse. So I'm glad to hear

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that. People, you know,
just an excellent book. So Russell Rustlers

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are like seagulls James J. Dillon's
store, So I you know, I

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try not to recommend stuff that's not
that's not really good, and if you're

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trying to, I do, I
go out of my way not to exactly.

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Yeah, yeah, so interesting.
Thank you for subscribing to the weight

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00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:03.320
Keller Progress podcast and weight Keller Pro
Wrestling post shows. Don't forget we got

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00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.120
a whole lineup of other shows called
the PW Torch Daily Cast. It's free.

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Just search p w torch in your
podcast stapp a different show on a

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different topic throughout the week, including
shows dedicated to a E W n X,

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Honor, and more. Just search

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PW Torch in your podcast stapp,
or check out links to the latest shows

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00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:30.080
at our main website, pwtorch dot
com. Well, good for We've got

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John Vimrini on the line. We're
gonna shift gears and talk current events about

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WWE. But it's cool to have
you on location at a one of the

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bigger, longer running wrestling conventions with
a great gathering at names than I look

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forward to hearing your report on the
Bruce which Alato show for. Well,

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00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:48.960
you should wait till we have Spruce. Okay, go ahead, go ahead,

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Just want to figure about this play
your point announce for still the Nain

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Wrestling with Midcarrch. I'm trying to
think of thanks. Thanks for waiting for

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me to finish the plug in start
that breaking news. Yeah, so as

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I'm sure so we will. We
will talk to you more about the convention

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on the Bruce Mitchel Audio Show for
VIP members this weekend, and then you'll

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00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:11.799
be hosting with Travis Bryant on Monday, this very show in the hour leading

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up to raw and so live cast
listeners can also get a summary version of

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what we talk about on the Bruce
Mitchell Audio Show this weekend. Once you're

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done with the convention, so very
cool and having the convention, will some

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seats or planet here the convention will
find their way into the livecast on the

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interview Friday. So yeah, absolutely, especially with a documentary out, we're

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gonna want to you know, supplement
that and augment it with some good guests.

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Yeah. Excellent. Bruce Mitchell senior
column us for Pro Wrestling, Torch

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Newsletter and twtorch dot Com and audio
co host of Well the Star of the

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00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.480
Bruce Mitchell Audio Show for VIP Members. He has been with The Torch since

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nineteen ninety. Bruce, thanks for
joining us, and we'll talk to you

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over the weekend and also on Monday, you'll be hosting the live cast.

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Good deal, fright? Thanks prettymu
all right, and now we shift gears

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to uh mister John Pierre Marini,
former WWE creative Team member in two thousand

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and nine and twenty ten. Is
that right, John? Yep, that's

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00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.120
right. And man, it's that
felt like this yesterday and now it's starting

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to feel like a long time ago, isn't it. It's strange. Yeah,

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you know, I was just I
was just going through a box that

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I had in my garage. I
had a buddy over and want to see

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if I had anything that I could
give them, And I was looking through

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a box and I saw some notes
from a production meeting. God, I

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don't even remember half of the stuff
that I wrote down. So it's starting

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to as much as it feels like
yesterday, I'm losing all the memories.

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Yeah. Yeah, Well, I
mean, what are you up to these

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days? We don't You're on the
show a lot. We talk about wrestling,

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but anything to share about what current
projects or jobs or different things you're

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doing post wrestling, Yeah, you
know, I got a independent movie that

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I wrote that's going through the final
stages of funding right how so hopefully beginning

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of the year we start with that. I think that we are going to

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start casting here in the next month
or so. Got a TV pilot that

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hopefully, again at the beginning of
the year, I'll be able to start

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pitching around. So a couple of
things, a couple of things around the

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turn. So hopefully they they both
work out and uh, and it'll be

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good, very good, good good
see things that are happening. Well,

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let's shift gears. You have On
the show before, talked about reality show

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ideas spinoffs from uh for ww A
to add to their programming and get fans

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00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:35.559
or the universe a different perspective on
WWE. What what were your thoughts watching

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Total Divas this Sunday. You know, uh, typical reality show. I

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mean it's it's uh, it's a
typical show that you would be you know,

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based around uh, you know,
in the vein of Kardashians and and

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all the all the rest. Yeah, you know, I think it's uh,

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it's about w w E Divas,
But you know, I think that

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they're trying to push more so than
their first life over the wrestling storyline,

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because Hollywood isn't a very big wrestling
fan, so I think you're gonna tend

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to see more stories orchestrated around and
share personal lives than you will around the

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river playing rink, John, we're
getting a decent amount of background noise.

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Not sure if there's anything you can
do to correct it, because it's colorable,

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but but we're definitely hearing strange noise
of the background that might get distracting.

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I held that. Let me try
to switch that sure things, Sure

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Things. The from been all asking
a question too, are you doing that

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the for the It's so hard for
me when watching that show to imagine somebody

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watching it who's not a wrestling fan
or very very casual fan, you know,

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kind of sort of a way who
who John Seen is, but maybe

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not anybody else that kind of thing. How about you from watching that show?

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Did that come across as and it
maybe it's hard for you too,

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but did it come across with the
show that would fit on E schedule?

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Where like I don't need to into
rich housewife, you don't have to be

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in a rich housewife to enjoy watching
them kind of in a voyeuristic way.

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Was this a good reality show that
that that was mainstream enough that you think

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it'll hold the pretty solid rating or
good rating it did on Funday, you

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know, and that's where you know, I kind of bring back the you

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know there there probably won't be a
lot of wrestling related storylines in it.

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I think that typically, you know, the female audience that watches reality shows,

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you could put anything on TV and
they're gonna watch it, you know,

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anyone that's been proven every reality show
that's on there. It could be

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the absolute craziest thing and they're watching
it. But I think that it has

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the opportunity to hold the rating.
Again, I think that they're going to

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go away from the wrestling as much
as they can while still kind of keeping

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it true to here's a story about
you know, girls that work for WWE.

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But I think you're going to see
a lot more storyline sort of produced

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around you know, their personal life. Again, it's not it's not a

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coincidence that every girl on the show
has a boyfriend, while you know,

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some divas are absent that that may
not. So I think that kind of

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tells you where they're head at as
far as where they're looking to go with

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the storylines. Was there anything about
it that you felt, for a wrestling

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fan, broke the narrative unnecessarily,
you know, bro bro because to me,

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I mean, there's certain things that
just came across as orchestrated. And

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that's obviously part of reality TV,
probably more so than most reality TV fans

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want to be told they're realized,
they'd kind of like, you know,

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ignorance is bliss. I don't need
to know that scene with Stage and I'm

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kind of enjoying it. But you
know, in Italia, finding out that

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you wasn't gonna be on WrestleMania,
for instance, the weekend over WrestleMania,

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you know, for any WWW fan, they could tell that was you know,

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pretty orchestrated. It might have been
a re enactment of something six weeks

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earlier, but it was certainly white. I mean, John, you were

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there. Did anybody ever find out
they were not going to be on WrestleMania's

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line up the weekend of WrestleMania?
No? Absolutely not. I mean,

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and here's the thing too, is
you know, especially with WrestleMania, there's

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so much build around almost every single
match. I mean, there was a

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writer assigned to every match on the
card. So you knew leading up to

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WrestleMania for sure, WrestleMania at least
that you know whether you'd be on the

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card or not. Now, what
reality TV is is famous for is the

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re enactment. You know, there's
been reality TV shows that I've worked on

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where they'll go back three four weeks
in the past and kind of say,

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hey, you know, remember when
this happened. We didn't quite you know,

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get really a reaction out of that, or you weren't around. So

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we'd like to put you guys,
you know, sit you down at lunch

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and and how do you guys talk
about what's something that happened three weeks ago?

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So the thing with Natty, and
it's a guess, but it's an

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educated guest, would be that that
was something that they created for the show.

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And again trying to come up with, uh, distinguishing who's who on

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the show, you know, and
and like with the Bella's and uh,

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the what the other girls, the
funk what are they called funkadactobacto, you

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know, doing the whole you know, go get me champagne. You know,

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we're gonna show that we're the veterans
here, the rookies, and then

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you've got Natalia who's kind of on
the outs. You know, that's that's

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all E right there, trying to
give everybody a character and sort of a

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place and on the show. So
a lot of that stuff. Again,

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with any reality TV show, whether
it's about wrestling or not, it's going

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to be very very, very very
produced. It was one thing that I

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learned, uh, you know,
with my days at MTV was that,

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you know, networks are very firm
on look, we're not going to put

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anything on TV that we can't control, especially the outcome. So you know,

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they're not just gonna blindly follow around
these girls ros and just kind of

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hope something happens. They're going to
make sure something happens, and if it

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doesn't or if it doesn't come out
the way that they want, they're going

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to go back. And you know, with the Natalia, you know,

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being told that she won't be on
WrestleMania, that's a great example of going

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back and going all right, we
need something for her in relation to WrestleMania

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because she doesn't have a match,
she doesn't have a story now, is

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there? And don't laugh when I
asked this question because it might sound naive

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and I know that, but is
there any regard for integrity on reality TV?

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Tow in the reenactments not completely change
how they want the first time?

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How much it's sense of we want
things to feel real and be real and

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have some integrity to what we're portraying
is really happening. Or are some of

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the quote reality stars these regular ordinary
people being filmed in a documentary type way.

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Are some of them literally being like
just acting out scenes that are where

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they sit down and say, all
right, you're gonna be really mad at

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00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.720
me, and I'm going to be
really mad at you, and we're going

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to uh fake it, and then
when they all cut, everybody shakes hamps

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like actors. It's both, I
mean it really it really depends on what

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the uh the principle or I don't
know, I guess the reality stars John,

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00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.480
we just lost your mic almost John? Yeah? Can you hear me?

316
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Now? You're back? Yep,
Okay, you know it's it's so

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it's both, you know, they
want to keep to the integrity of what

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it is that they're trying to produce, but also too they h you could

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00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:34.559
you could have you know, the
Bellas kind of sit there and say,

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hey, we want to we want
to orchestrate this sort of feud or story

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00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:45.000
with you know, Natalia or another
girl on there, so you know,

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they can get together and and produce
that themselves and then put it on screen,

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you know, and that's probably the
smart way to do it. I

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mean, you have an opportunity to
be seen and make something out of yourself

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and make a celebrity out of yourself. A lot of people tease they have

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that. I invite you to email
the show with feedback or questions or comments.

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00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:10.039
That email address is Wade Keller Podcast
at pwtorch dot com. That's Wade

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00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:14.240
Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You

329
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.920
can follow us on Twitter at pwtorch
and follow me at the Wade Keller.

330
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:27.039
That's at Pwtorch and at the Wade
Keller. And so when they call it

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00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:33.119
unscripted television, there aren't there's necessarily
scripts, but there's an orchestration and a

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00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.799
production and a pre planning that that
actually shares a lot in common in that

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00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:42.759
sense with professional wrestling. Wrestling is
more orchestrated than reality TV. Most of

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00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:47.960
the time because reality TV will film
just incidental things that happen and feature them

335
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.920
on the show. But reality TV
has a lot of production, a lot

336
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:53.519
of orchestration, and basically an I
on ratings in an ion conflict, and

337
00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:56.599
an I on plotlines, and they
will do what it takes to orchestrate.

338
00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:00.799
Yeah. They You know, it's
similar again to w where Vince Vince knows

339
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:04.480
what the wrestling fan base wants,
and I know that that's sort of a

340
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:08.359
joke at this point, but you
know, he knows what they what they

341
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:14.200
want, so he's gonna orchestrate a
show around that. Television networks know what

342
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:18.240
their audience wants out of a reality
TV show, and they're going to orchestrate

343
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:22.720
their show after that, and they're
going to produce whatever they feel the audience

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00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.720
is going to want to see.
And to be perfectly honest, I don't

345
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:32.160
think that they want to see the
wrestling aspect of the show, which I

346
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:37.559
know that there's been a lot of
discussion about did they did they book Daniel

347
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:44.519
Bryan versus John Cena for SummerSlam for
the show, And I think that there's

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00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:48.599
two ways of looking at that,
and one of them is, yeah,

349
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.839
they might have because you know,
Vince will try anyway to get eyeballs on

350
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.559
his product. So if he can
get the the outside audience to kind of

351
00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:02.119
see what he has his show,
he'll do that. But then on the

352
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:06.640
other end, I don't think E
cares that much about John Cena versus Daniel

353
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:11.880
Bryant, So I don't think that
that's E's intention. So, you know,

354
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.839
it definitely could be Vince pushing for
that and going, hey, we

355
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.839
have the Bellas. Okay, well, we know Sena and Brian are are

356
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.680
are dating these girls. I know
that they'll be on there. Maybe that's

357
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:22.759
the match that we do. But
on the other hand, you know,

358
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.480
I don't think Vince can go to
E and say this is what we plan

359
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.759
on doing, because I don't think
that they would care what their wrestler or

360
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:36.960
their Summer Slam main event is.
Looking at the John Cena dating one of

361
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.319
the Bellas and Daniel Bryan dating one
of the Bellas. John Cena, hustle,

362
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.559
loyalty, respect, We've got kids
who follow him. He's, you

363
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.759
know, a role model, as
much of a role model as Top baby

364
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:49.160
Face has been in a very long
time, especially you know, having gone

365
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.240
through the attitude era. Probably going
back to Bob Backland, Sena is the

366
00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:55.960
one who was most conscious of that, probably more so than Olk Coogan.

367
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:59.839
Doesn't do you think it hurts his
image at all that he's on their dating

368
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.119
one of the Bellows who are caddy
and territorial and kind of nasty. Is

369
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.039
there any kind of conflict in the
narrative there? It's not like John Cena's

370
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.680
playing somebody other than John Cena.
John Cena sells his wrestling character two fans

371
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.440
who know that it's orchestrated as this
is who I am. I do stand

372
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.680
for these things. Does that cause
any issues? Do you think? Yeah?

373
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.519
You know, I think I think
slightly. I think that he's still

374
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.759
going to play the same role on
television. I'm sure he's going to be

375
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.960
very cautious of the way he's portrayed
in that show. And I think he

376
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:37.039
did a good job of sticking to
the John Cena character in the first episode.

377
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.039
But you know, I do see
you know, I've always been you

378
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:45.759
know, Cafe is non existent anymore. But you know, even with the

379
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:48.599
Twitter thing that I've discussed with you
on the show before, as I always

380
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.400
spelt, if you're gonna be your
character on Twitter. You should play your

381
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.880
character on Twitter. Otherwise, you
know, use your personal name and do

382
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.440
as you wish on there. But
I think it takes away from the fun

383
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.960
of the product and and uh,
sort of allowing yourself to be put in

384
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:07.839
that world of going you know what, Listen. I know it's scripted,

385
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:11.200
i know it's choreographed, but I'm
going to allow myself to believe what's happening.

386
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:14.960
And that's that's the fun of watching
it. H And I think you

387
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.559
take away some of that when you
have John Cena, the character dating.

388
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.359
Yeah, I can't remember what bella
he dates, but one of the bellas

389
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.960
that that are healed, uh,
and that do act like that. But

390
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.559
you know, also too, I
think it could add to the appeal of

391
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.400
John, where you know, he
sees the best in somebody and you know,

392
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.240
maybe in the end they might think
he's gonna get screwed over, but

393
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.119
good old John Cina, you know, he just wants to think that there's

394
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:45.400
good in everybody, right yep.
And would you feel from your experience behind

395
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.519
the sceness not that you were there
when there was a reality show on eve

396
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.759
but is it is it the type
of thing that writers would bring up and

397
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:53.920
John Cina would bring up to Vince
Kmahn, Hey, you know, should

398
00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:57.240
we be trying to coordinate what we
see on the show to the product or

399
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.799
would Vince look at him like your
crazy? He is for women who like

400
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.599
the Housewives shows, and this is
for you know, a very wide range

401
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:08.480
of age groups who watched ww programming, but predominantly men. Yeah, I

402
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:12.720
think both. I think I think
more so Vince than than the writers would

403
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:17.880
bring the show to the table in
regards of you know, hey, I

404
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.079
have I have an opportunity here too, especially maybe even Stephanie. I have

405
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:26.119
an opportunity here to pick up that
female audience on our show. Let's take

406
00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:27.799
advantage of that. And I don't
know, maybe they will, maybe they

407
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:32.680
won't. Maybe Vince is opposed to
you never know what's Vince. I mean,

408
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:37.839
there's time that you would feel he's
going to be completely for something and

409
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:40.920
he's not. But he usually is
when it comes to something, and then

410
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.559
on this occasion he's not, and
vice versa. So my guests would be

411
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:48.880
that he would want to try to
jump all over that and bring this story

412
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:53.240
onto w w ETV, and I
guess we'd probably find that out you know,

413
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:56.440
fairly soon now that the first episode
has aired, I don't know.

414
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.279
I don't recall that didn't air this
week after Raw or did it, dare

415
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:06.000
Initially they actually had a They did
the live airing and then a replay that

416
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:10.000
night one and then another airing Raw
after Raw on Monday as a one time

417
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.519
only and collectively did about three and
a half million viewers. So there's a

418
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:17.319
lot of people, including now because
of the Monday that replay, a lot

419
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:21.480
of WWE fans who watched that program. So it becomes the world's collided.

420
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:25.720
It's not like a completely separate you
know, separate h They're not traveling on

421
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.559
separate planes. They introduced the raw
ims to that reality show, right,

422
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:33.079
So I think that going forward,
if if it was going to happen,

423
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.799
I think it's going to happen,
uh fairless zoona if not, you know

424
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:41.960
this coming week, yeah, yep. Yeah. So it's it's it's interesting

425
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:45.759
watching it as a you know,
from from my position as a wrestling fan.

426
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:48.400
I'm trying to put myself in the
seat of somebody who had never seen

427
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:52.359
the product before. Would this be
interesting to them or or not? And

428
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:57.440
I'm still not sure However, I
do know on our pwtorch dot com poll

429
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.599
we put up among the people who
went out of their way to watch that

430
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.720
show and we're interested in it,
and the half the people who vote it

431
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:06.799
said, I had no interest in
it. I didn't watch it, so

432
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.359
they're not even counted in the ratings. But among Torch readers, and I

433
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:14.079
think this is promising for the show, about half of them, a little

434
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:15.839
under half said yeah, it's interested
in it, and those who watched it,

435
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.319
by a twenty to one margin said
they liked it enough that they're going

436
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.440
to watch it again. And I
could have easily seen it flipped around.

437
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:25.759
I mean, I don't think that
was a given that, you know,

438
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:27.319
people who are interested would watch the
first show and want to see it again.

439
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.960
So I'm predicting this won't be an
XFL type situation where they got week

440
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:34.279
one ratings that are promising and then
they just bomb afterwards. I'm kind of

441
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.079
thinking they might. I think wrestling
fans are interested in seeing this, and

442
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.440
it's an interesting look behind the scenes
at WrestleMania, and just getting a chance

443
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.599
to see John Cena in a different
role I think is of interesting, and

444
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.319
obviously it's about women, and that's
going to be interesting to a lot of

445
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.400
the audience that wishes there were more
of the diva's on TV. So I

446
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:53.799
think it has a chance to actually
work on a number of levels with a

447
00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:57.319
number of different audiences. I agree. I think I think it can't too

448
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:02.400
because I think they're pulling different audiences. I think they're pulling uh, maybe

449
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:06.359
not the majority of wrestling fans,
but those that are interested in something in

450
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:11.759
this vein as well as you know, the reality TV junkies. I believe

451
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.400
that they they're on after the Kardashians. Yep, though you know that's a

452
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:18.720
great legion for them. So I
think it has a chance. You know,

453
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.000
I guess we'll see reality TV is
it definitely not a sure thing.

454
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.880
There's been lots of shows that weren't
expected to be hits that were, and

455
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:32.160
and shows that we're expected to be
in work, So we'll see how it

456
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:34.039
turns out. Let's let's shift gears. I do want to get the phone

457
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:37.559
number out if you're just joining us. John Piermarini is our guest. He

458
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.559
is a been a guest on number
of times in the past on the PW

459
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.960
Towards Live Test and He is an
x WWE creative team member uh in two

460
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.720
thousand and nine and two thousand and
ten for nearly two years, and he

461
00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:51.559
is kind enough to join us on
a summer regular basis and give his insights,

462
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:55.799
observations, and anecdotes from behind the
scenes. We I want to shift

463
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:59.440
gears to current day happenings in a
couple of minutes, but I also want

464
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.759
to go to calls because weve got
some people on hold. So if you

465
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:06.160
want to join people who are in
line to call and ask questions and comment,

466
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:09.440
the number to call is six four
six seven two one ninety two eight.

467
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.400
That is six four six seven two
one nine eight two eight. Quick

468
00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:17.359
plug that we did launch our YouTube
page this week. We are now an

469
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:23.279
official channel on YouTube, and that
means we are featuring some exclusive video clips

470
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:28.480
while they're flight shows with audio.
Essentially at this point, we're kind of

471
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.640
in a soft launch stage of it, but we've got some VIP exclusive snippets

472
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:35.000
that if you're not a VAP member, you would not would not have heard

473
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:38.480
before, including a great story from
Dan Madigan, who was on the show.

474
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:43.279
An XT creative team member from the
early two thousands, told some anecdotes

475
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.079
about innssect Man's quirks, including the
fact that ten years ago vinsect Man did

476
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:50.400
not know what a burrito was and
did not think anybody else would know what

477
00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:53.240
a barrito was when it was brought
up at a creative meeting that they incorporated

478
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:58.920
burrito into a storyline with Eddie Guerrero
and Big Show, which was just amazing.

479
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:00.000
And you have to hear Dan adding
and tell the story. He did

480
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:04.519
a great job relaying what happened when
that was said, in the tone and

481
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.759
the circumstances, So check that out. You can get to our channel at

482
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:15.119
YouTube dot com slash pwtorch, YouTube
dot com slash pwtorch, and I invite

483
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:19.079
you and encourage you and ask of
you to subscribe to our channel. We're

484
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:22.279
on the cusp of getting to one
thousand subscribers after just a few days,

485
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:25.359
and once we get to one thousand
subscribers, that unlock some new features for

486
00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:30.240
us that will be exciting. This
is just stage one of what we plan

487
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:34.240
to do on YouTube with the pwtorch
channel. Check out what we've done so

488
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.119
far. Subscribe and we'll keep you
up to date on what we do in

489
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.640
the future and also be sure to
subscribe to our free email list. Every

490
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:43.279
day. Every morning you can,
I have a top five stories from the

491
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.920
previous day waiting in your inbox in
case you I didn't keep up on what's

492
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:49.160
going on and wrestling. The place
to go to sign up for that.

493
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.359
It is free and there will be
no spam associated with it. It is

494
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:58.440
upwtorch dot com slash email. That's
pwtorch dot com slash email. Major breaking

495
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:04.160
news plus the daily top five in
your inbox is the free service we offer.

496
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:08.199
The top story tomorrow might be Kurt
Angel arrested again for DUI. Full

497
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:13.840
details right now at pwtorch dot com
if you want to get details on that

498
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:15.719
and see the monk shot. We
got some people on hold, John,

499
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.800
so why don't we shift to some
phone calls and then after that we're going

500
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:24.400
to talk Restomania twenty nine by rate
was Rock worth it? And also Restomania

501
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:28.920
thirty What can possibly be done to
get over a million buys? Again?

502
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:31.880
Since they barely roll over a million
buys with Rock, Sina and Lesner,

503
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:36.960
Triple H, an Undertaker and another
streak match, can they do anything to

504
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.760
get over a million buys for Wrestomania
thirty and we'll also talk about SummerSlam Hype

505
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:50.039
with John. In twenty twelve,
NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately

506
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:54.280
the brand you see today. On
the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back,

507
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:59.639
we'll be taking a weekly look at
this page in NXT's early history.

508
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:05.440
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout
from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we

509
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.360
go eight years back to the day
to track NXT's rising talents and why they

510
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:19.280
did or didn't work out exclusively for
p W tort VIP members. Let's first,

511
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.800
though, go to phone calls and
begin with area code eight six two.

512
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:28.320
It's ex two. Please stay your
name and where you're from? Kiss

513
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:32.239
from North New Jersey, Kylin.
What have you got for us? Okay?

514
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:39.280
I have two questions. Number number
one, John, is there a

515
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:50.199
particular idea that you know this WWE
is using today that that you pissed when

516
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:57.679
you were on the Creative t that
you were told we don't do that kind

517
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:06.719
of thing anymore. And number two
times question what was that way? I

518
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:08.159
said, Yeah, go ahead,
right to question two and we'll tackle both

519
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:15.400
of them at once. And and
question number two, how do you feel

520
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:29.320
the newly re restructured creative se has
hast help the brother in terms of we're

521
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:38.000
starting to see more actual ring ring
ring work in some of the shows and

522
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:47.599
ving Villetta being used again and different
things like that. Sure. Great,

523
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:51.960
kind of appreciate the topics, Yeah, John, And I'll put a spin

524
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:54.679
on Kyland's first question two. Not
only your ideas, but you know,

525
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:58.000
is you see anything that you suggest
that was turned down when you were there?

526
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:00.840
But are you seeing the product?
Are you seeing things being pitched and

527
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:06.440
accepted by Vince McMahon now that had
you pitched them just a few years ago,

528
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:07.960
twenty twenty ten, that he would
have said, no, we don't

529
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:10.800
do that. So a little bit
of a different spin on Kylan's question too.

530
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:14.960
Yeah, you know, I think
there's a I think there's a change

531
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:17.639
in philosophy as a whole there,
But you know, I don't think that

532
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.360
there's a lot being done differently as
far as pitching, I think that's still

533
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:28.760
the same. One thing that I
do think uh is different is uh foupfold

534
00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:31.320
one. I think that when I
was there, you know, we were

535
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:36.519
we were on the decline. But
you know, Vince was still happy in

536
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:39.320
certain regards for things. And I
think that you know, you've seen his

537
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:45.360
frustration since then with the news,
you know, with Creative and Brian Gawortz

538
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.960
and and all that with with the
ratings and the buy rates and then you

539
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:53.000
know, getting frustrated with him and
sending him home. So I think he's

540
00:37:53.079 --> 00:38:00.440
more accepting of things now. I
also think that with Triple H more involved,

541
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:05.000
because you know, as we talked
about, he was just sort of

542
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.360
taking that role when I was there, and I think now he's more entrenched

543
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:14.960
and probably sitting right there with Vince
and helping make decisions and probably running the

544
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:17.519
show when Vince is not. So
I think that, you know, he

545
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:22.079
also has a little bit of a
different philosophy than Vince does on what kind

546
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:25.119
of product he wants to put out
there. But you know, another thing

547
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:31.599
too is that Vince has always been
receptive to ideas. You know, he

548
00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:35.679
wants to hear everything that you have
to pitch, as long as it's well

549
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.159
thought out. And you know,
I remember times when we had a meeting

550
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:43.599
and he kind of grew frustrated with
Creative and started saying, look, we

551
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:45.599
need different ideas, we need fresh
ideas we need to do things different.

552
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:51.000
And you know, I remember one
guy pitch why don't we and that guy's

553
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.280
still there. He pitched, why
don't we bring managers back? And he

554
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:58.039
was open to it, and you
know, the only concern that Vince had

555
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:01.079
was I want managers that want to
get the talent over and not themselves over.

556
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:06.000
But if we could find that,
then yeah, let's let's incorporate managers

557
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:09.280
again. And I think that that
was a philosophy that I'm getting here that

558
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:14.239
maybe Byan didn't want to do,
so it didn't go through because everything had

559
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:16.440
to kind of go through Brian before
it got to Vince. You know,

560
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:21.480
I used to pitch, you know, we're doing Sina versus Batista three or

561
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:25.920
four months in a row with no
reason given given to why we're we're continuing

562
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:29.639
with the feud. I mean,
I think Sina was champion, or Sina

563
00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:31.920
won the title, and then Sina
defended at three times against Batsa, but

564
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:35.760
he was defeating him every time.
And I remember going, you know,

565
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:37.280
and the buy rates were going down
each month that we were doing that,

566
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:40.159
and I remember saying, we're not
even giving them a reason to want to

567
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:44.920
see Batista to have another shot.
You know, why don't we switch it

568
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.559
up and have different guys in that
role? You know, we build up

569
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:52.119
a guy, have them you know, uh go against Sina, and yeah,

570
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.039
obviously we can't always have those guys
win, and there's gonna be you

571
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:58.760
know, the audience that goes.
Man, you know, Miss isn't gonna

572
00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:00.599
beat Sina. But if every once
in a while we had a guy that

573
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:05.760
we believed in that we could have, say Miss defeats Sina and win the

574
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:07.800
WWW title. Now people start going, oh, man, I gotta start

575
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.519
tuning into it. I know it's
a you know, Wade Barrett that has

576
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:14.400
a title shot, But man,
Miss beats Sina, you know, six

577
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:16.360
months ago, So who knows what
can happen? And I think a lot

578
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:21.639
of a lot of the stuff that
he liked, including that one, because

579
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:23.320
I remember him just saying right after
that, he said, why aren't we

580
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:27.960
doing that? Then let's start doing
it. But then it never happened.

581
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.039
And you know, I could go
and I could pitch it and put it

582
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:32.639
together and we give it to Brian
and then it just disappears, and the

583
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:37.400
same thing happens again and again.
So I think a lot of it probably

584
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:43.519
has to do with that filter being
gone and Vince probably hearing more ideas or

585
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:47.440
at least whoever it is that's in
Brian's position now being more receptive to the

586
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:52.039
outside ideas and then taking them to
Vince, Because you could pitch to Vince

587
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.000
and then like in this case,
say with the managers and putting other guys

588
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:59.840
in the main event, you could
pitch that to Vents and he'll like it.

589
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:01.440
He'll go great, but he's gonna
forget that you said it. So

590
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:05.599
if you don't bring it to him
again in a scripted form for the next

591
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:07.960
show, he doesn't even remember that
you said it, So if it never

592
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.480
gets back to him again, it's
not going to happen. So you could

593
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:15.000
go and say, great, let's
put you know, let's put Hayman with

594
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:20.159
Curtis Axel uh okay, But then
if Brian gets that and doesn't want to

595
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:22.480
do it, it's not going to
happen, even though Vince might have been

596
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:24.920
receptive to it. That's a right. It's good advice for new creative team

597
00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:29.840
members to be more persistent and not
not just take it personally when he ignores

598
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.039
them afterwards. Persistence can help.
Yeah, you know, too. And

599
00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:36.119
here's the thing too. You know, we had guys on creative that would

600
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.719
pitch ideas on a weekly basis in
the production meetings right to Vince, and

601
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:43.360
he would hate nine out of ten
of them. But if he liked that

602
00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:46.760
one, that's all that mattered,
you know. So if you're if you're,

603
00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:50.679
if you're oh for eight, he's
still gonna be He's still going to

604
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:52.119
be looked for your idea. He
might roll your eyes when you raise your

605
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:55.840
hand and pitch something, but as
soon as you give him something that he

606
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:00.800
likes, you know, you you've
reset the you've set the clock, so

607
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:04.960
to say, and now you're on
his good side and you know you have

608
00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:08.159
a few swings and misses to go. But uh, you know again,

609
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:12.679
you know a lot of people always, you know, tweet me or ask

610
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.039
me, know what advice can you
give to try to get a job there,

611
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:19.719
And that's sort of you can't really
give advice to that. But you

612
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:22.199
know, for people that are new
that are there, it's very intimidating,

613
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:27.000
especially to pitch to Vince, because
you don't want to say something that he's

614
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:30.599
gonna hate. My advice would be
have something well thought out and he'll be

615
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:34.760
receptive. And just because the guy
in the position above you doesn't like your

616
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.920
idea doesn't mean the vincil. There's
been plenty of times that Brian hated something

617
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.679
that I pitched, but I felt
strongly about it, so I pitched it

618
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:44.760
in front of vents and Brian rolls
his eyes and it and it takes place.

619
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:49.960
And how about the length of matches, That's something Colin brought up.

620
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.360
We're seeing longer match It's part of
that, you know, due to robbing

621
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:57.079
three hours. Part of it is
they're just happened to be workers being pushed

622
00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:00.480
now. Wrestlers are you know,
superstars? Is their call being pushed now?

623
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.880
Who can go longer and have better
matches? Daniel Bryan and the Shield

624
00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:08.159
are just among many of them.
Who who who are like that? What

625
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:10.760
was that like with vincect Man in
terms of match length? I doubt that

626
00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:14.639
was something the creative team had a
lot to say so win, But do

627
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:17.079
you sense that a philosophy has changed
or Vince's kind of utilizes people to their

628
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:21.559
strengths and right now he's got time
to fill and wrestlers who can fill it.

629
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:24.719
I think I think you answered it
with that you know, we had

630
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:28.960
guys that could work long matches.
You know, when I was there,

631
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:34.280
we had Batista, and we had
Sean and Jericho, we had Triple HH,

632
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:38.039
we had Sena. You know,
we had good workers there and uh

633
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:43.960
and those people were given that opportunity
to do two three segments and then we

634
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:50.079
had the other guys that he didn't
feel warranted that much time inside the ring.

635
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.000
And I think now he knows he
has to fill three hours. And

636
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:57.159
I think that you know, why
put out And you think he's smart enough

637
00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.559
to know why put out these longer
man matches with the guys that can work.

638
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:05.119
If we're not utilizing them, you
know, why just throw out a

639
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:07.880
match? If we're not going to
push Daniel Bryan and Dean Ambrose, why

640
00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:09.440
are we going to put them on
TV for forty five minutes in the match.

641
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:14.400
So I think he's starting to go
more towards all right, well,

642
00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:17.000
we need to fill time on TV. The best way for us to do

643
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:21.440
it is in the ring. With
that said, let's put let's push the

644
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:23.400
people that can actually do something inside
the ring. And I think that that's

645
00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:29.440
another reason why you see guys like
RVD comeback, you know, and I

646
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:32.360
think that's another reason why you see
a push of Christians. I think that

647
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:37.280
he can he can give Vince what
he needs, and that's blocks of time

648
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:44.800
filled on his television show. You
can support us on Patreon and get these

649
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.639
shows with ads and plugs removed,
the weight Killer prosing podcast, weight Killer

650
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:52.920
Processing post shows, and the PW
Torch daily cast throughout the week with ads

651
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652
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653
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:06.000
dot com slash PW Torch v i
P. That's Patreon dot com slash PW

654
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.039
torch vi IP and you can also
upgrade two other tiers and receive even more

655
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:17.159
benefits through Patreon. All right,
let's jump to another phone call and uh

656
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:21.400
go next to eighty five six eight
five six. Thanks for holding. Please

657
00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:25.559
state your name and where you're from. Oh many, this is welcome Jersey.

658
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:28.800
Hey, Well thanks for Colin.
What have you got for John?

659
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:32.360
Hey? Oh? I was just
well, who's a question actually about hoping

660
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:37.079
Kurt Angle? I went online to
Dan saw he's, you know, arrested

661
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.159
again. Do you think they're gonna
actually take this serious in CNA, or

662
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:45.119
are you just gonna trying to brush
it under gum sixty saying she was upset

663
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:50.360
about the who x sixty Twitter controversy
for the kids. You don't think she's

664
00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:54.039
trying of being a hypo crip with
Kurt Angle getting arrested with US two or

665
00:45:54.079 --> 00:46:00.119
three times now for d WI,
Yeah, I mean, it's it's a

666
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:00.679
point. I mean, if Dixie's
going to say, you know, think

667
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:05.559
about the children when people say nasty
things on you know, the hashtag asked

668
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.960
Dixie thing that in fact put out
there that turned into fiasco. You know,

669
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:09.920
you do have to think, well, what about the kids who were

670
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:13.920
you know, out you know,
being driven home from Grandma's house last night

671
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:16.320
when Kurt decided to once again get
behind the wheel under the influence as he

672
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:20.159
was arrested for last night. I
mean, yeah, it's a legitimate question.

673
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:23.559
I don't know will what Dixey Carter's
gonna do. Kurt Angle is a

674
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:27.519
big part of TNA, and Dixie
tries to be loyal the people even when

675
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.760
they have problems. We've seen that
in the past. Part of it depends

676
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:31.880
on how, you know, what
Kurt Angle says he's going to do about

677
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:36.039
it in the future. At this
point, you know, it might be

678
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:38.840
time if TNA values him and they
decide to keep him around, to get

679
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:43.280
him some sort of a chaperone,
so those late nights, if he's that

680
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:45.719
valuable, get somebody who's in charge
of the car keys, assuming he even

681
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:50.639
keeps his driver's license after this,
John, how how do you think physic

682
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:57.360
man would handle it? A repeat
d d U Y offender leaving a show

683
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:00.440
or at least the night of a
show getting arrested. For you, why

684
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:04.719
if that happened multiple times? Where
do you think that's some mad would come

685
00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:07.760
down on that. You know,
as much as it's a it's a business

686
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:12.239
decision, I think it's also a
personal one. And I think Vince uh

687
00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:16.159
Us, you know, everyone that
works for him as an extension of his

688
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:20.800
family, and I think that in
Kurt Angle's case, I think, you

689
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:23.239
know, just to kind of give
a perspective on why I'm answering it this

690
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:28.119
way, I think if it was
somebody that had done it the first time

691
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.320
that he sat down and they said, look I made a mistake, I

692
00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:34.239
think you know it would be it
would be brushed under the rug if I

693
00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:37.280
think if he felt he had to
make a statement, I think that he

694
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:39.119
would then make a statement with that
person. But I think in Kurt Angle's

695
00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:43.239
case, I mean, I don't
think that this is it is stupidity,

696
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:45.599
but I think that this is deeper
rooted than that with Kurt Angle, and

697
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:49.159
I think that he would notice that, and I think that he would want

698
00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:52.000
to approach this from uh not Vince
rict Mahn, your boss, but vincrict

699
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:55.920
Man, your your friend. And
I think that he would want to sit

700
00:47:55.960 --> 00:48:00.760
down with Kurt and see what needed
to be done to fix this problem as

701
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.920
apposed to go on, Okay,
what's the first thing I can do to

702
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:07.119
punish this guy? Yeah, it
is. It's I think you're right.

703
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:12.199
You have to do it on an
individual basis and understand their history, the

704
00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.920
chances of it reoccurring you of course, and enter business into it. Is

705
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.239
this a pr nightmare waiting to happen? That has to factor in whether it's

706
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:22.679
fair or not it does. And
then one on one, is this person

707
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:25.599
you know apologetic? Will they are? They? Without prompting and in a

708
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:29.920
mature way saying I know how I
can make sure this doesn't happen again?

709
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:31.880
And or are they blowing it off
and blaming the cop, you know,

710
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:34.920
I mean, it's just yeah,
I think all that plays into it.

711
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.840
That's why I don't think you can
have it just a flat policy where you'd

712
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:38.880
say, standing back, I know
what Dick pe will do. I think

713
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:43.159
a lot of it depends on that. My hunches. Dixie won't fire Kurt

714
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:46.239
over this unless Kurt is just you
know, says some awful things in response.

715
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:49.760
I think she'll try to work through
it. But you know it to

716
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:52.239
see how what happens with the legal
situation with Kurt. I mean, this

717
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:54.880
is, you know, a multiple
time DUI offender isn't necessarily going to have

718
00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:58.599
a choice in the matter either,
you know, what happens to him,

719
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:00.960
So we'll see, it's gonna be
tough for him to travel around if he

720
00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:04.079
doesn't have a driver's license and know, I mean, he's gonna have to

721
00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:08.360
have someone pick him up, take
him to all the locations personal appearances.

722
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:13.360
I mean, it's gonna it's gonna
be tough, absolutely, you know,

723
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:16.960
But if they value Kurt, and
that is the only solution they if that's

724
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:20.800
the only way that they can see
keeping them around, is that they make

725
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.400
sure that it doesn't happen again,
then you got to pay somebody you know

726
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:25.480
to drive him around. I mean, you don't want to do it with

727
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:30.199
your whole team, But I mean
and and I'm not saying Kurt as a

728
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:32.679
person deserves special treatment. I'm just
being realistic. He's Kurt Angle right.

729
00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:37.920
Olympic gold medalists may have enter Immerston
storylines, a great worker still with a

730
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:40.519
history and TNA, And then I'm
just saying TNA might be willing to spend

731
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:44.199
some money on somebody else. And
in fact, I think it would be

732
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:47.280
fair, honestly to tell Kurt we
are going to have a driver everywhere you

733
00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:50.760
go when you're on the clock with
us. You know, what you do

734
00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:53.119
at home on your time, that's
that's up to you. But if you

735
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:58.559
get arrested again, you know we
will be done with you. But when

736
00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:01.039
you're with us, we don't want
on it on our We don't want to

737
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:06.400
answer to somebody getting killed because you
got behind the wheel while you were coming

738
00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:08.480
or going from one of our shows. So therefore, for you to stay

739
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:12.519
employed, we need you to take
out of your paycheck the money it takes

740
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:14.719
for us to have a driver for
you you know, and I think that'd

741
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:17.159
be a fair compromise. I agree, Yeah, all right, very good.

742
00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:21.360
Our phone number here is six four
six seven two one nine eight two

743
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.360
eight. This is at PW torch
Livecast. You can find us at pwtorch

744
00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:30.039
livecast dot com and that includes the
live airings of the show at five thirty

745
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:34.440
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Friday every single week and also live the

746
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:38.840
hour before ROW on Mondays and also
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747
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:43.159
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have been here for three and a half

748
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:45.360
years. Where the top rated sports
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749
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:49.679
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750
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755
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756
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:21.360
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757
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758
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759
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:30.960
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760
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761
00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:37.960
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762
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:40.599
And if you're an MMA or USC
fan and there's more tie in after

763
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:45.840
ports shown up last night on Tenampact
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764
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:50.039
to download our MMA Torch app that
is also free, and check out the

765
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.519
MMA Torch podcast at blog talk Radio. And most of all, visit our

766
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:57.760
main website mmatorch dot com. We'll
have coverage. We have live coverage of

767
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:01.599
all MMA events that our broadcasts,
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768
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:04.960
and a lot of good stuff.
We're proud of the work we do covering

769
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:07.320
MMA, so check us out MMA
torch dot com. Let's now move to

770
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:12.440
er code eight O five. You're
on What's Ax WWE writer John Piermarini eight

771
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:17.920
O five. Please state your name
and where you're from. You know.

772
00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:22.280
Five. The switchboard is being pokey, but I will tell you when I

773
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:29.079
see a red light come on and
the switchboard gets unjammed, we'll be able

774
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:32.320
to listen to you. I'll give
it a couple more seconds here as I

775
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:37.880
wait, still churning John while I
wait for the switchboard to refresh itself.

776
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:44.039
Any thoughts on Wrestle Media twenty nine
doing barely above one million buys in the

777
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.440
tally that WWE released yesterday. That
surprised you that it's down? Uh,

778
00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:52.920
you know a couple hundred thousand plus
from Wrestle Media twenty eight. I don't

779
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:57.159
know if it surprises me. Uh, you know, I think that,

780
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:02.679
you know, the one thing that
I think WW does is they do too

781
00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:08.400
many things, too many times,
and I think that there's not a sense

782
00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:15.000
of I guess, urgency or to
want to tune into something. I know,

783
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:17.159
you know, the Rock coming back, that's great, you know,

784
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:20.559
but I think also two you can
look, you know, I've seen it

785
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:22.920
last year. There's not really a
lot of builds around this year as far

786
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:27.320
as the story to make me care
about being the same match that I spent

787
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:30.199
sixty dollars on last week, and
then you look at the card and you

788
00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:35.000
go, you know, nothing really
like jumps out as like, oh my

789
00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:39.199
god, I need to see this. So I don't know if they were

790
00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:45.239
expecting it to match. I mean, I think in Vince's ice is always

791
00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:50.639
expecting to beat the previous year.
But you know, I think that it

792
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:54.239
could have done just as well if
they told the proper story. And I

793
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:59.039
think that they had the story.
I just think that they waited till eight

794
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:02.480
weeks before Wrestling Mania to tell it, you know, because they had the

795
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:06.679
story was Seena saying, this year
sucked ever since I lost to the Rock,

796
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:09.519
and now I have a chance to
to sort of rewrite all of that

797
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:13.760
and make all of that disappear.
But he really didn't have that bad of

798
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:15.880
a year. But I think that
would have been a great story if,

799
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:20.960
for you know, the eight months
leading to to WrestleMania, you have John

800
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:24.320
Sena have the worst year of his
career, and and then now you can

801
00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:29.440
tell the story of I'm remotivated.
This is you know, this is it

802
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:30.760
though, this is my last chance. If I don't beat the Rock,

803
00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:35.559
you know, I'm I can't be
one of the greatest of all time,

804
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:37.400
and that's why I got into this, or that's why everybody gets into this.

805
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:42.480
And I think you tell more of
a story of you know, I

806
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:44.920
want to see the matter, see
what's gonna happen. Either he's gonna win

807
00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:50.480
the ww title after a year,
you know, that's that's Scena fans not

808
00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:53.000
not. Everyone's gonna want to be
excited about John seen Is winning the title.

809
00:54:53.079 --> 00:54:55.159
But then on the other hand,
you know, you have the fans

810
00:54:55.239 --> 00:54:58.519
that go, man, maybe this
is it for Scena, I'm gonna tune

811
00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:01.519
in. I just don't think it
telling story was told leading up to that

812
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:06.760
match, and I don't think that
there was a very compelling card below it

813
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:09.400
to get people who didn't want to
see at a second time to really care

814
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:13.559
to tune into WrestleMania. But you
know, it's WrestleMania, and you're going

815
00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:19.480
to get close to a million bias
no matter what. Searching for more great

816
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:22.559
pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host him to three weekly Pro

817
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:27.719
Wrestling Boom podcast. Each week,
he'll hear the latest news and analysis for

818
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:30.840
me and my team at Pro Wrestling
dot Net, along with other pro wrestling

819
00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:35.880
media members. Plus the Pro Wrestling
Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable

820
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:38.079
names in the pro wrestling industry.
Subscribe an I tune in, Stitcher,

821
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:44.079
Downcast, and all your favorite secondary
apps, or visit us directly at pwboom

822
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:53.119
dot com. Once again, that's
pwboom dot com. Does this incriminate a

823
00:55:53.239 --> 00:56:00.000
little bit? Triple H and Orcmpunk
brock Lessner's first WrestleMania and many many years

824
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:04.119
because he showed up a month after
US so many of last year, Uh,

825
00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:09.159
Triple H against brock Lessner and then
Undertaker against cm Punk. Those two,

826
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.480
I mean, those are the big
three matches on that show. They

827
00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:15.320
share credit and blame. You give
him credit for breaking a million buys,

828
00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:20.000
but it dropped and that it was
a different, you know, different opponents

829
00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:23.159
Undertaker and uh Brock. You know, Triple H maybe wasn't the best opponents

830
00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:27.280
brock Lessner as as a guy who
maybe some fans have moved on from any

831
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:30.679
any thoughts on those two undercard matches. Yeah, I mean, if you're

832
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:36.079
looking for someone, yeah, you're
never gonna blame the person that that you

833
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:39.719
felt was the right person for something. So you know, maybe maybe the

834
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:44.239
blame is put on CM Punk,
you know, man, you know Undertaker

835
00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:46.079
usually Jaws, that we put him
with Punk, and you know, I

836
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:50.239
knew that wouldn't work, and I
told you, And they're going to ignore

837
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.440
the fact that, you know,
they didn't make a compelling story for Sina

838
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:58.599
Rock. And I think that I
think that Lessner had a lot of appeal

839
00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:01.840
coming back to WWE, but I
think that they just immediately turned him into

840
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:07.599
the wrestler brock Lessener and not the
UFC fighter brock Lessener. And I mean,

841
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:12.360
I think what the month after they
brought Lessner back, he lost to

842
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:19.400
John Cena. So I mean,
you tore down this monster and and really

843
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:22.920
your investment, you know, you
bring in this guy, I think I

844
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:28.199
can't remember the timeline is off,
but I know at one point didn't triple

845
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:32.119
h you know, talk him down, almost tearing apart in any accomplishments that

846
00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:37.559
he had in UFC. You know, So you stripped this guy down,

847
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:43.800
and then you expect him to be
this this paper view juggernaut that he could

848
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:46.440
be and he has proven to be, but you strip all that away and

849
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:50.119
then you wonder why nobody cares to
see him. And another thing too is

850
00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:54.920
you know the the UFC star brock
Lessner was bigger than the w w E

851
00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:59.880
superstar brock Lessener. Now, I
know that there was that appeal of him,

852
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:04.760
this fake wrestler come into UFC and
fight, and I know that that's

853
00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:08.320
why people tuned in. But I
think after a while that he wasn't a

854
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:13.639
WWE guy anymore. He was just
this monster that after he'd win a match,

855
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:15.119
he's getting the guy's face, he'd
spit in the camera. I mean

856
00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:20.159
like literally, this guy wasn't human. And I think that that's what his

857
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:23.360
appeal was in UFC. After the
w w E star war off, I

858
00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:27.960
think they needed to bring that into
WWE, and instead they turned him back

859
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:31.760
into the same brock Lessener that was
there before. And you know that's again

860
00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:36.320
I may be wrong here, but
I don't think he was a huge draw

861
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:40.360
as a WWE superstar before he went
to to USC, and they turned him

862
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:45.199
back into that guy. That's absolutely
one of the issues with brock all along

863
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:49.079
is how do you how do you
market him? You know, do you

864
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:52.800
try to integrate him and put him
back back in the mainstream with WWE and

865
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:55.960
or do you use him in that
way and kind of not draw attention to

866
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:59.719
the fact that he's something different,
or do you try to keep him quote

867
00:58:59.719 --> 00:59:02.440
schell and and selective and they've kind
of been, you know, sort of

868
00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:06.079
in between. It depends on the
week you tune in or the program that

869
00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:08.000
he's been in. And and also
does he wrestle you know, how does

870
00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:12.519
he incorporate the USC style but also
do what he was great at as a

871
00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:15.239
WWE performer before that. And Yeah, I mean it's I think it's disappointing.

872
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:17.920
I think if you would have said
two years ago, brock Lessner is

873
00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:21.280
going to be in one of the
top two or three matches at WrestleMania,

874
00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:22.239
back when it just seemed like,
you know, he was he would heavier

875
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:25.400
champion. Who's gonna believe that would
happen? If you would have said three

876
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:29.360
years ago, they're gonna do that, and the Rock is going to be

877
00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:32.119
on the show again, this is
before WrestleMania twenty eight Rock came came in

878
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:36.519
or twenty seven. I guess you'd
have to go to So if it's before

879
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:38.639
that and you said Brock and Rock
are both gonna be on Mania, I

880
00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:44.480
think you'd be disappointed if if it
barely did one million especially with Brock's first

881
00:59:44.599 --> 00:59:50.440
So I think no, wait,
I think that WWE is content with thinking

882
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:57.119
Rock is a major star and and
brock Lessner is a huge MMA star slash

883
00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:00.599
pay per view box office star,
and I think that they feel like that's

884
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:04.880
all they need. Okay, let's
bring the Rock in. He could sit

885
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:07.400
in a chair in the middle of
the ring and it doesn't matter. He's

886
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:10.599
gonna draw. I think that they
think that the appeal of brock Lessner,

887
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:14.840
he could come in. We can
have him lose to Sina, we can

888
01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:17.840
have him, you know, we
do whatever he wants to do. He

889
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:22.280
could walk around backstage and crack jokes. Those people will still want to see

890
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:25.679
brock Lessner. And that's that's not
true, you know. I think that

891
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:31.920
people what appealed to the fans for
the Rock. I think that they wanted

892
01:00:31.960 --> 01:00:36.719
to see that when he came back, and I don't know if they necessarily

893
01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:39.360
did. And I think with Brock, they wanted to see that UFC star

894
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:44.480
come back into you into WWE,
and they didn't, and I think that

895
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:47.840
they lost their appeal. All right, let's stop, go back to the

896
01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:51.760
full night, because I believe we
did. Uh the switchboard seemed to work

897
01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:53.400
itself out. Let me try again
up butture did so eight oh five.

898
01:00:53.440 --> 01:01:00.199
Sorry about that. Please stay your
name and where you're from? Eight o

899
01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:05.639
five. You are live on the
show. Eight zero five. All of

900
01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:09.280
that, all of that trouble,
and now you've gone away, all right,

901
01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:13.079
eight o five. We'll hang up
on you. If I see your

902
01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:15.639
number, come back on. We'll
try you one more time. Let's now

903
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:17.519
go to A four two three next
I do want to know? Note that

904
01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:21.320
we'll be going off the livecast in
a couple of minutes and doing a VIP

905
01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:24.400
after show for a few minutes and
talking about Summer Slam and looking ahead to

906
01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:28.960
Rusomnia thirty with John. If you
have a question that you want to ask

907
01:01:29.079 --> 01:01:30.039
and we don't get to it on
the live show where you just can't call

908
01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:35.519
in, you can send us an
email right now at Pwtorch Livecast at gmail

909
01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:39.440
dot com. PW Torch Livecast at
gmail dot com. That is the email

910
01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:43.480
you can send to for any show. So if you want to send an

911
01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:45.840
email for Monday show with Bruce Mitchell
and Travis Bryant, or next Tuesday with

912
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:49.840
Jason and Me, or next Wednesday
with Pat McNeil, and his guest or

913
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:52.719
next Thursday with James Caldwell and his
co host. You can always send ahead,

914
01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:55.159
just put the name of the host
or the show on the subject line

915
01:01:55.639 --> 01:01:59.440
so the host knows to grab it. Also, we have book next week's

916
01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:02.639
guest. It is a return appearance, the second appearance ever of Hardcore Bob

917
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:06.000
Holly. He'll be on the show
next week. He was a great guest.

918
01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:08.000
A little over a month ago we
had him on to talk about his

919
01:02:08.119 --> 01:02:13.320
book, which I really recommend,
just the chapter on Brawl for All and

920
01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:15.840
what if he asked, go that
was is enough? And Bob at one

921
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:20.239
point in the book just run over
a list of wrestlers during his time and

922
01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:22.079
why they why they got fired,
or why they didn't get a push,

923
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.920
like behind the scenes reasons it was. It was pretty interesting, interesting insight

924
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:29.159
from somebody kind of on the outside
of the cool kids circle looking in,

925
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:32.280
but was there for a really long
time and except for one match against the

926
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:37.159
man we've been talking about, brock
Lesner never got that headline world title match

927
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:40.119
on pay per view during his whole
tenure. Interesting perspective from from a non

928
01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:45.960
WWE published book. It did not
get filtered through WWE. He's not in

929
01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:49.639
wrestling now, doesn't aspire to be, and he's a great guest for that

930
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:52.039
reason. So he'll be on again
next week. If you did not hear

931
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:55.280
that original interview, I encourage you
to go to the archives at PW sporchlivecats

932
01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:59.519
dot com and and look it up. Or if you're a VIP member,

933
01:02:59.679 --> 01:03:01.280
he was a do our drop making
you and click on people you torch live

934
01:03:01.320 --> 01:03:07.480
test interviews and look it up even
quicker that way. But I'm looking forward

935
01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:08.599
to having him on a second time. He'd promised you'd come on again.

936
01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:12.440
We promised we'd invite him again,
and next week is when that happens.

937
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:15.079
So I hope you can join us
then if you can start sending your questions

938
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:17.000
in now, and I encourage you
in the meantime to buy his book and

939
01:03:17.079 --> 01:03:21.199
read it and ask some questions related
to his book. I think when you

940
01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:24.320
read it like I did, you'll
have a lot of a lot of questions

941
01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:28.079
coming out of the book that you'll
want him to expand on. So excited

942
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:30.920
to when out set All right,
let's go now to Eric code four two

943
01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:36.599
three has promised four two three please
state your name and where you're from Hey,

944
01:03:36.760 --> 01:03:38.440
wait and see Hey, and thanks
for Colin. What have you got

945
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:45.679
for us? Hey? So I
understood a few weeks ago that it was

946
01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:49.760
the USA network decision to have the
McMahon's own TV. So much. Is

947
01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:52.320
there any way we can write usay
to tell to get them off of TV?

948
01:03:54.519 --> 01:03:59.639
John John talked to talk to me
about any and two, about Vince's

949
01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:02.920
and Stephanie interplay for that matter,
but especially Vincent Stephanie and their desire to

950
01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:09.480
be on television and how much your
experience was that USA Network got involved in

951
01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:16.440
it. I honestly, you know, unless they're really good at convincing otherwise,

952
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:19.960
they don't have a desire to be
on TV as much as you think

953
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:25.119
that they do. I mean,
I remember Vince used to refuse to be

954
01:04:25.239 --> 01:04:29.000
put on TV. There was a
time when he wasn't on for probably about

955
01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:31.400
a year, and we would pitch
ideas to try to bring them back.

956
01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:33.599
Nope, nope, don't want to
be on TV. Find a way to

957
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:35.639
do something without me. I don't
want to be on. Don't want to

958
01:04:35.679 --> 01:04:40.000
be on. Stephanie was the same
way, and he would always say,

959
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:43.519
if there's if there's a reason why
I need to be on TV. You

960
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:46.320
can put me on until then I
don't want to be on TV. And

961
01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:54.760
uh but you know, I you
can see that the trend of ratings when

962
01:04:55.039 --> 01:05:00.480
McMahon's go on, USA Network notices
death and you know, if they if

963
01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:02.079
they come and they say, hey, we want the McMahons on, give

964
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:05.039
us a story with the McMahons and
a power struggle or you know whatever,

965
01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:10.559
it is just a request. That's
what they're going to give them. So,

966
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:14.719
you know, unless there's another idea
that they could throw at USA,

967
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:19.119
which you know, that's that's the
bad part is those other alternative stories aren't

968
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:21.760
pitched. You know, there's USA
doesn't call and go, hey, you

969
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:25.480
know, let's get the McMahon's back
on. Let's do a power struggle.

970
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:29.480
Uh. They don't come back and
go, hey, you know what instead

971
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:32.719
of doing that again, why don't
we try this? Why don't we do

972
01:05:32.920 --> 01:05:38.239
this with Sena or this with this
guy or you know, whatever it may

973
01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:42.559
be. It's just nobody, nobody
has that other idea to do. So

974
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:47.679
you're you're you're gonna be stuck with
what USA Network wants and until you can

975
01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:53.719
give them an alternative option, that's
what you're gonna get. But you can't

976
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:56.880
blame the McMahon's. I mean,
you know, aside from Triple H.

977
01:05:56.960 --> 01:06:00.360
I'm sure he loves being on TV
and being a focal point of the show.

978
01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:04.920
But I mean, who wouldn't in
his position. Vince and Stephanie do

979
01:06:05.239 --> 01:06:10.119
not actively try to find ways to
get on TV. If anything, is

980
01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:15.719
the exact opposite. Interesting. Yeah, thanks for downloading today's show. Take

981
01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:18.840
it to the next level with a
VIP membership. Get shows like this the

982
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:23.880
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Prosing post show, and the Pwtorch daily

983
01:06:23.960 --> 01:06:29.559
casts on our Pwtorch VIP podcast feed
with ads and plugs removed from the shows

984
01:06:29.599 --> 01:06:32.800
for a streamlined listening experience. And
also hear the VP exclusive shows that I

985
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:36.159
host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin, Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix

986
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:41.199
with Todd Martin signature VIP series that
you're missing out without a VIP membership.

987
01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:45.440
So go VIP here in twenty twenty
two and enjoy all the benefits, all

988
01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:49.760
the bonus content and the ad free
listening experience. Pwtorch dot com slash go

989
01:06:49.960 --> 01:06:59.960
vi ip. Yeah, you think
that they're useful on TV at this point?

990
01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:06.440
To Senior opinion. M Yeah,
I mean, you know, I

991
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:12.239
think that they are, but I
feel like again going back doing too many

992
01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:15.320
things too many times. I mean, how many times are we going to

993
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:18.400
see the family feud with the power
struggle between the McMahons. I think that

994
01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:20.599
they need to find a way to
freshen it up, you know. I

995
01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:25.960
mean, I remember I pitched a
story one time, uh that I know

996
01:07:26.519 --> 01:07:30.840
that got vetoed and I don't know
the exact person who vetoed it, but

997
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:33.880
the story was good, but they
didn't want to be portrayed in that light.

998
01:07:34.159 --> 01:07:41.360
Was you know, Stephanie may be
cheating on Triple H, and she

999
01:07:41.599 --> 01:07:45.840
may have somebody else who may kind
of be taking his spot. And you

1000
01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:49.320
know, the while you go through
this six week story of who who might

1001
01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:53.599
it be? You know, you're
you're you're tuning in to see, at

1002
01:07:53.599 --> 01:07:57.519
any time can this guy get revealed? And and and once that person is

1003
01:07:57.639 --> 01:08:00.760
what does that mean? I mean, Triple H has kids with Stephanie,

1004
01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:02.800
what could happen? I'm not saying
that that's the best idea, but it's

1005
01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:08.000
an alternative to something that is the
same thing that they do with the McMahons.

1006
01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:12.000
Every single time they're put on TV. So I think they're an asset,

1007
01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:15.920
but I think you need to find
different ways to utilize them. Yeah.

1008
01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:18.680
Yeah, And part of it too
is just I don't know how self

1009
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:21.279
aware Stephanie is of how she comes
across on TV. And I think that's

1010
01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:25.600
part of even what Ian's getting at
too. And if Vincent Man as as

1011
01:08:25.720 --> 01:08:29.640
the leader of the company, do
you really want the leader of the company,

1012
01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:32.000
the guy who you're essentially paying money
to to support the product, to

1013
01:08:32.119 --> 01:08:35.720
come across like he does where you
just don't know one program to the other,

1014
01:08:36.039 --> 01:08:40.520
whether he's representing you know, himself
at his company in a positive way

1015
01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:45.720
or he's this erratic, heelish,
ugly person at times. I agree,

1016
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:49.319
And you know a lot of things
too. Is you know, again,

1017
01:08:49.439 --> 01:08:54.439
going back to the John Cena fan
base, I think those kids are young

1018
01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:58.680
enough to want to believe what's going
on. And maybe you know, when

1019
01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:01.359
Vincent Mann says something and like this
guy walks around like he owns the joint,

1020
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:03.880
you know, you want to cheer
for Sina, but I think as

1021
01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:08.560
a kid, you you might want
to you might question, oh, is

1022
01:09:08.600 --> 01:09:11.199
this guy really what he says?
He is? He comes out on TV

1023
01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:15.399
and hugs and kisses babies, and
but yeah, Vince a man says,

1024
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:18.079
he walks around like he's an arrogant
prick, you know. So I think

1025
01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:23.079
that I think that there's times that
they go out there and they say things

1026
01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:27.199
off the cuff that I think even
seconds after they say it, they go,

1027
01:09:27.560 --> 01:09:29.880
I wonder, I wonder if that
was the right thing to do.

1028
01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:32.199
Well, I'm here, so let's
just continue it, you know, let's

1029
01:09:32.239 --> 01:09:36.159
talk about how we want to see
Sina versus Brian and then they just poof,

1030
01:09:36.680 --> 01:09:40.079
you know, disappear out of nowhere. God, that would make my

1031
01:09:40.159 --> 01:09:45.079
life easier. I don't understand the
logic behind that. From a character standpoint,

1032
01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:47.640
you know, or a storytelling standpoint, you would want the hottest guy

1033
01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:53.319
in your company and the face of
your company to just disappear, and then

1034
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:56.399
what would you have, you know, because he never built to anything with

1035
01:09:57.039 --> 01:10:00.920
Vince being irritated with Sina before that, and on top that, wouldn't it

1036
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:05.359
make sense that if if Vince Wickman
is that concerned and he wants what's that

1037
01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:09.640
guy's name the GM to be sort
of his puppet and put the right guys

1038
01:10:09.640 --> 01:10:13.079
in the position don't you think Vince
would go on screen and hand pick a

1039
01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:16.760
guy like he did with The Rock
as a corporate champion, go out there

1040
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:19.800
and go, look, this is
the guy you should have put in the

1041
01:10:19.880 --> 01:10:24.520
match. And maybe we should put
that guy in the match. So why

1042
01:10:24.560 --> 01:10:30.600
don't you book him versus Daniel Bryan
in a in a lumberjack match. I'll

1043
01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:33.720
choose the lumberjacks. And on top
of that, it's you know, it's

1044
01:10:33.800 --> 01:10:38.600
no DQ and this and that where
you know he's going to stack the deck

1045
01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:43.600
against Daniel Bryan to put his guy
in there. And I just think that,

1046
01:10:43.960 --> 01:10:46.079
you know, I'm not a big
fan of burying a guy to get

1047
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:50.760
a guy over. I don't know
the appeal in in trying to run down

1048
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:55.159
Daniel Bryan and and and go hey, let me let me get on your

1049
01:10:55.239 --> 01:10:58.119
level to talk to you here and
bend over. I don't know how that's

1050
01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:01.600
getting slaty over. Yeah, exactly, I agree with that a lot.

1051
01:11:02.199 --> 01:11:06.279
All right, let's let's take maybe
one one more call, maybe two before

1052
01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:10.079
we wrap up the three portions.
Joe John, can you stick around for

1053
01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:13.399
ten to two more minutes? Uh? And uh, do some BF you

1054
01:11:13.399 --> 01:11:16.399
after show? After we take another
call. I'm good till about four o'clock

1055
01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:19.880
my time, so whatever you need. So it sounds good. Great,

1056
01:11:20.199 --> 01:11:23.960
all right, so let's let's jump
in and give Ato five another chance.

1057
01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:27.920
Eight O five are you uh?
Let's switchboards turning there? It is eight'll

1058
01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:30.520
five? Are you there this time? Hey? Wait, that was me

1059
01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:35.359
that called the first time. Yep. What's your mil from California? Great?

1060
01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:40.199
Yeah, Michael, what have you
got for John? Today? Can

1061
01:11:40.479 --> 01:11:45.439
Don talked about Dolph Ziegler and his
lack of director right now and how it

1062
01:11:45.520 --> 01:11:48.520
seems like they didn't really have a
story for him when he turned and face

1063
01:11:51.800 --> 01:11:57.239
John, did you catch that?
I don't know the question though, Michael.

1064
01:11:57.279 --> 01:11:59.600
Michael, go ahead and ask the
question again because I didn't quite get

1065
01:11:59.600 --> 01:12:05.359
it either. Yeah. Can John
talk about how the w W turns dollh

1066
01:12:05.439 --> 01:12:10.039
Ziggler's face and they don't don't seem
to have a direction for him before they

1067
01:12:10.119 --> 01:12:13.119
turn the place? Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah, I got you

1068
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:16.439
there? Sorry about that, Yeah, I mean it's it's not surprising.

1069
01:12:17.439 --> 01:12:21.840
I honestly don't know if if w
W WE H or or a couple of

1070
01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:28.319
people in the decision making process or
that high on Ziggler, and I think

1071
01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:31.279
I felt, or I think that
they felt like, you know what he's

1072
01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:38.319
good for as better suited as a
baby face. And because here's the way

1073
01:12:38.319 --> 01:12:40.319
you got to think of it,
too, When a guy doesn't have a

1074
01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:45.760
story, it's it's not by mistake, it's because they didn't come up with

1075
01:12:45.840 --> 01:12:48.239
a story for him. They had, whether it's del Rio or whether it's

1076
01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:51.960
Lessner or Punk or whoever else.
If they're focused on giving the stories too,

1077
01:12:53.479 --> 01:12:57.199
and they're gonna think of those guys
first, and then they're not worried

1078
01:12:57.199 --> 01:13:03.279
about Ziggler because it's not hard to
watch the show and see who they're getting

1079
01:13:03.319 --> 01:13:06.720
behind or who they care about.
I think Ziggler right now is just a

1080
01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:13.520
face out there doing this thing along
with the miss along with the fifteen other

1081
01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:16.000
guys that they have doing stuff.
And I don't think that they said,

1082
01:13:16.159 --> 01:13:19.800
oh shoot, we turned them face
without a story. I think they said,

1083
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:25.319
let's turn him face. He's better
utilized that way, and now let's

1084
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:27.800
get back to focusing on the guys
that we want to focus on. So

1085
01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:34.600
you know, when you see this
happen, it's not because they last second

1086
01:13:34.640 --> 01:13:38.560
they said, man, we should
turn him face and then when raw had

1087
01:13:38.560 --> 01:13:40.600
the production meeting, they went,
oh, no, what do we do

1088
01:13:40.720 --> 01:13:44.079
with them? I think it was
let's turn him face, He'll do what

1089
01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:45.880
he does, and now let's focus
on everybody. Yes, I think he's

1090
01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:50.399
more of just a forgotten guy.
Now, all right, very good.

1091
01:13:50.520 --> 01:13:54.680
I appreciate it. Yeah, I
also those guys. I just don't think

1092
01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:59.680
you should turn somebody and waste that
turn unless you're ready to really seize that

1093
01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:01.680
more. And that's one of the
things I said on this show and multiple

1094
01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:03.920
times when people called up and said
Dell's being cheered, turn up. Del's

1095
01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:06.560
being cheered, turn up. And
I'm like, if vinciment Man isn't excited

1096
01:14:06.600 --> 01:14:11.479
about him as him as a baby
face, don't waste his turn just because

1097
01:14:11.520 --> 01:14:14.560
fans are cheering him. If it's
gonna get lost in the mix. And

1098
01:14:14.640 --> 01:14:16.439
that's what I feel's happened here.
It just it got lost in the mix.

1099
01:14:16.600 --> 01:14:19.159
Because when you turn somebody and it
doesn't work, and then you turn

1100
01:14:19.199 --> 01:14:23.600
them back, it just starts watering
itself down. I think a turn should

1101
01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:27.359
spark business and spark interest in the
character. And what dal felt. Granted,

1102
01:14:27.399 --> 01:14:30.000
the concussion hurt, but I think
it actually diminished interest in him.

1103
01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:32.039
So well, you know, let
me add something to wait, as you

1104
01:14:32.119 --> 01:14:35.720
know, wasting a turn, as
I agree with you one hundred and ten

1105
01:14:35.800 --> 01:14:39.079
percent, So let me just say
that first. Yeah, yeah, I

1106
01:14:39.159 --> 01:14:42.880
don't think that. I don't think
in their eyes the turn was wasted because

1107
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:46.439
the turn was for del Rio.
The focus was on del Rio. There

1108
01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:50.520
was a lot of times when you
know, there was a tough decision to

1109
01:14:50.600 --> 01:14:56.920
go all right, look we have
Orton taken on. Let's say Daniel Bryant.

1110
01:14:57.199 --> 01:15:00.479
Okay, well, we don't want
Daniel Bryan to lose. But who

1111
01:15:00.520 --> 01:15:03.399
are we getting over here? Okay, we're getting over Orton. Then we

1112
01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:09.039
need to focus on what we're trying
to do in this in this math,

1113
01:15:09.199 --> 01:15:12.560
in this story, in this scenario. And I remember that was that was

1114
01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:17.000
big with d X versus h D
Bossi and Cody Rose when they had that

1115
01:15:17.119 --> 01:15:20.119
story, And I mean, I
thought this was going to be the opportunity

1116
01:15:20.199 --> 01:15:25.399
that we could really push uh Dbasi
and Rose and get them over on DX.

1117
01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:29.600
But they had more plans for DX. So what felt like you're building

1118
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:31.680
these two guys and you kind of
cut the legs out from under them.

1119
01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:35.319
It wasn't seen that way, it
was it doesn't matter. We're focusing on

1120
01:15:35.439 --> 01:15:39.640
Dx right now. So I think
with the del Rio story, it was

1121
01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:44.000
we're not wasting a Dolf Ziggler turn. We're turning del Rio purposely, and

1122
01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:47.439
we're using Ziggler because not that zigglers
on the outs, but we're not worried

1123
01:15:47.439 --> 01:15:50.640
about him right now. We're worried
about del Rio. We need to turn

1124
01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:55.119
them heal. This is how we're
going to do it. So everyone's looking

1125
01:15:55.159 --> 01:15:58.640
at it, you know, from
a from all the Dolf Ziggler fan perspective

1126
01:15:58.760 --> 01:16:02.479
is it was wasted, but it
wasn't because it was used to push or

1127
01:16:02.840 --> 01:16:09.439
get over or further a story or
a character of someone that they did want

1128
01:16:09.439 --> 01:16:15.079
to utilize exactly. And I think
there is impatience among fans where they see

1129
01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:18.439
something not happening right away and they
think, oh, the guys get buried.

1130
01:16:18.439 --> 01:16:20.119
Even like the Shield, you know, people are like, oh my

1131
01:16:20.159 --> 01:16:23.319
god, the Shield are so hot. Now they're cooled down, and it's

1132
01:16:23.359 --> 01:16:25.560
like, you know, Vince rotates
people in and out, and I think

1133
01:16:25.640 --> 01:16:29.399
Vince thinks that, and he's right
a lot of the time that he can

1134
01:16:29.439 --> 01:16:32.239
get somebody hot again when he decides
to Yeah. You know, he's been

1135
01:16:32.359 --> 01:16:35.520
right and he's been wrong. He's
been right on Mark Henry multiple times,

1136
01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:39.920
but he's been wrong too, And
I think I think Jack Swagger was a

1137
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:45.760
perfect example of this. Yeah,
yep, need an extra dose of positivity

1138
01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:50.479
in your wrestling podcasts. Will come
join me Alan fell Over in the Progress

1139
01:16:50.520 --> 01:16:56.640
Paradise at peed Retort VIP as we
bask on the bright side of wrestling and

1140
01:16:56.800 --> 01:17:00.279
focus on some of the great matches
and shows from around the world world,

1141
01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:04.279
be at the US, Japan,
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place

1142
01:17:04.359 --> 01:17:09.640
for wrestling's past in the Paradise two
and we've done fun historical shows such as

1143
01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:15.159
the We Love Lger series celebrating the
glorious career of Juician thunder Lyger and our

1144
01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:17.520
I was there when shows where our
guests will join me to talk about a

1145
01:17:17.600 --> 01:17:21.880
classic bout that they were in attendance
for. We love variety and you can

1146
01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:28.159
expect lots of it at the pro
Rest Paradise. Detailed pwef Torch VIP subscription

1147
01:17:28.239 --> 01:17:32.880
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1148
01:17:33.039 --> 01:17:39.479
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1149
01:17:39.640 --> 01:17:44.119
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1150
01:17:44.439 --> 01:17:54.319
VIP mobile site. See you in
the Paradise. Very cool. Let's do

1151
01:17:54.399 --> 01:17:57.239
one more phone call seven seven open, hold on hold a little bit and

1152
01:17:57.279 --> 01:17:59.760
then we'll I'll go to the b
at the appter show. If you want

1153
01:17:59.800 --> 01:18:01.560
us, if you have a question
or topic for us cover in the last

1154
01:18:01.800 --> 01:18:06.039
fifteen minutes of the VIP After Show, drop us a line at Pwtorch livecast

1155
01:18:06.159 --> 01:18:10.199
at gmail dot com. Don't forget
if you're interested in going VIP and getting

1156
01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:14.479
access to the VIP After Show and
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1157
01:18:14.720 --> 01:18:18.079
add free website, a ton of
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1158
01:18:18.159 --> 01:18:21.760
day back issues of the newsletter dating
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1159
01:18:21.800 --> 01:18:27.039
put up in PDF and text format
every week. And also the twenty years

1160
01:18:27.039 --> 01:18:30.079
ago radio shows that I hosted on
KFA N and Sweet Stan Lane by the

1161
01:18:30.119 --> 01:18:33.319
way with my guest twenty years ago
this week on Progressing Focus, and we'll

1162
01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:38.039
be putting that up this weekend.
And also we just if you haven't heard,

1163
01:18:38.079 --> 01:18:43.439
we recovered some of the original VIP
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1164
01:18:43.600 --> 01:18:46.119
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1165
01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:50.840
process got them back and VIP members
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1166
01:18:50.880 --> 01:18:55.560
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1167
01:18:55.840 --> 01:18:58.560
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1168
01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:00.760
and the rest of the wrestling world
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1169
01:19:00.920 --> 01:19:06.479
vi IP. The place to go
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1170
01:19:06.680 --> 01:19:10.920
P. You can get a ton
of information there and don't forget Subscribe for

1171
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:15.680
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1172
01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:18.600
dot com slash email. All right
seven seven oh, thanks for holding.

1173
01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:24.840
Please state your name and where you're
from. I waited serious, Hey,

1174
01:19:24.920 --> 01:19:28.479
Larry, goodar from you. What
have you got for us? Hey?

1175
01:19:28.600 --> 01:19:31.520
Excellent? Yeah, John, and
I knew you've covered this. Hey,

1176
01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:33.840
John, I think you, Larry
hold on this sect. I think John,

1177
01:19:33.880 --> 01:19:36.079
we're getting a lot of wind on
your mic at the moment. If

1178
01:19:36.079 --> 01:19:39.560
you can block that a little bit, that help or maybe it's with you,

1179
01:19:39.680 --> 01:19:42.159
Larry, either way, go go
ahead, all right, no problem,

1180
01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:45.199
no, no, I'm in I'm
inside cooking dinner. But what is

1181
01:19:45.279 --> 01:19:48.279
it? I know what got covered
last time you were on the live cast,

1182
01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:54.520
So I apologize if it's kind of
just retrenning old ground, But you

1183
01:19:54.640 --> 01:19:58.880
shared your thoughts on kind of how
unsuccessful the miss Face turn has been,

1184
01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:01.880
and I guess I'm wondering. You
know, now there's been a few months,

1185
01:20:03.319 --> 01:20:05.920
you know, and they shouldn't just
flippingly turning back or anything like that.

1186
01:20:06.039 --> 01:20:09.039
It's kind of like what Wade was
talking about. You don't want to

1187
01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:12.079
see them and you John, you
don't want to flip people back too early.

1188
01:20:12.640 --> 01:20:15.439
But is it really just a matter
of like the advice you would give

1189
01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:18.279
would be just kind of keep your
head down and wait for them to,

1190
01:20:18.800 --> 01:20:23.239
you know, maybe turn and embraise
the character that he can fully get behind.

1191
01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:28.000
Or would you actually have some recommendations
on how he could best make this

1192
01:20:28.119 --> 01:20:35.840
space role work. That's a good
question, and everybody's philosophy is different,

1193
01:20:36.279 --> 01:20:40.039
and uh, you know, with
me, is I would try to go

1194
01:20:41.199 --> 01:20:43.199
again? You don't want to waste
the turn, You don't want to go

1195
01:20:43.279 --> 01:20:45.119
back and forth. But you know, let's let's make the best of the

1196
01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:48.520
situation that we're in here and let's
try to find a way to kind of

1197
01:20:48.560 --> 01:20:53.319
get you going into baby face.
The problem is is that, you know,

1198
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:57.279
Miss being a baby face is not
the problem. It's that Miss is

1199
01:20:57.439 --> 01:21:02.039
playing the typical baby face role where
a guy turns baby face and Vince just

1200
01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:08.279
assumes they all have to be the
same guy. And I think Miss could

1201
01:21:08.279 --> 01:21:15.319
have worked essentially as the same character, but sort of changing his target to

1202
01:21:15.760 --> 01:21:19.600
the heels. You know, I
think it would have worked both ways,

1203
01:21:19.680 --> 01:21:24.640
because, especially today, and this
has been talked about a lot, a

1204
01:21:24.760 --> 01:21:30.399
lot of heels are are the are
the fan favorites as far as other television

1205
01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:35.600
shows, you know, Tony Soprano, Dexter, Breaking Bad, the bad

1206
01:21:35.680 --> 01:21:39.520
guys are the good guys. And
I think that you can act like a

1207
01:21:39.640 --> 01:21:44.720
heel as long as you're going after
somebody that they hate more. So,

1208
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:50.279
you know, and I've told him
this so many times, you know that

1209
01:21:51.680 --> 01:21:55.640
I think he'd be a great baby
face if they did it the right way.

1210
01:21:56.600 --> 01:21:58.680
And I think it would have had
to have been so I think wait,

1211
01:21:58.760 --> 01:22:00.279
I think even we had something at
one point where you would ask,

1212
01:22:00.760 --> 01:22:05.239
if you did turn John Cena,
who could be the guy that could eventually

1213
01:22:05.319 --> 01:22:08.159
take his spot and I said,
you know, it's done right. It

1214
01:22:08.239 --> 01:22:11.640
could have been the Miss, but
he was. He was so hot as

1215
01:22:11.720 --> 01:22:15.000
a as a heel when he was
clicking, and I think that he could

1216
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:17.960
be the same way as as a
baby face. I would just what I

1217
01:22:18.000 --> 01:22:23.840
would suggest is go back to the
way that you were as a heel,

1218
01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:28.159
but let's start going after heels as
opposed to baby faces. And I think

1219
01:22:28.199 --> 01:22:32.039
it would work. And part of
me's just wondering with Miss if he's just

1220
01:22:32.840 --> 01:22:38.039
too old to be that character anymore
too. I mean, I go through

1221
01:22:38.119 --> 01:22:40.880
Tuesday. I think what made it
him seem like he'd get over the face

1222
01:22:41.119 --> 01:22:44.760
was how the attitude and the personality
he exuded as a heel. But I'm

1223
01:22:44.760 --> 01:22:49.239
just wandering getting into his thirties now
if he's just not kind of it's just

1224
01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:53.319
it just doesn't click with the audience
and that type of character has to mature

1225
01:22:53.319 --> 01:22:58.000
into something entirely different, because I
just don't know if I'm not I'm not

1226
01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:00.960
confident anymore because he's been so awful
this year. I'm not confident anymore that

1227
01:23:01.000 --> 01:23:03.840
he has it in him to be
kind of that cool baby face that just

1228
01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:06.960
two years ago we thought he could
be. Yeah, you know, and

1229
01:23:08.039 --> 01:23:12.000
he could be one hundred percent right
in that. And they do have a

1230
01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.439
vehicle for him to turn heel,
and they do have a vehicle for him

1231
01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:19.920
to be a completely different heel.
And that's with Rick Flair. You know,

1232
01:23:20.079 --> 01:23:25.199
he could he could turn into a
cowardly heel that you know, he

1233
01:23:25.239 --> 01:23:27.560
doesn't have to be the cool heel, but he could be the guy that

1234
01:23:27.680 --> 01:23:31.000
you you could hate because he could
get over on your baby faces being a

1235
01:23:31.119 --> 01:23:35.680
coward but finding a way to get
over on them. And uh. And

1236
01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:40.399
I think that as beloved as Rick
Flair is, I think there's the guy

1237
01:23:40.520 --> 01:23:44.000
right there that they could use to
help help turn Miss if they wanted to.

1238
01:23:44.319 --> 01:23:45.720
But I still think, you know, I think right now where Miss

1239
01:23:45.880 --> 01:23:49.039
is at, I think he's got
a little bit more time where he could

1240
01:23:49.039 --> 01:23:53.560
still kind of revert back to the
old Miss get a baby face and it

1241
01:23:53.640 --> 01:23:55.640
could work. But I do agree
with you. I mean, the time

1242
01:23:55.760 --> 01:23:58.960
is definitely running out for him to
play, you know, the character that

1243
01:23:59.359 --> 01:24:02.439
he played as mister Money in the
Bank and on the way to ww title

1244
01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:06.520
yeah, or just cool you know, the cool kid from you know in

1245
01:24:06.640 --> 01:24:10.479
quotes, but the cool kid from
reality television in real world. You know,

1246
01:24:10.640 --> 01:24:13.720
at some point he's kind of got
to grow up and figure out who

1247
01:24:13.840 --> 01:24:16.000
is he as a as a you
know, full fledged adult character instead of

1248
01:24:16.079 --> 01:24:23.399
kind of the the you know,
obnoxious, smartass, youthful character. Yeah,

1249
01:24:24.680 --> 01:24:27.279
Larry, Yeah, Well I was
wondering if I give one more question

1250
01:24:28.159 --> 01:24:31.119
the Diva show. Yep, thanks. You know, one thing I thought

1251
01:24:31.199 --> 01:24:36.079
was interesting, I'll just clarify not
that not that it necessarily needs to be

1252
01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:40.560
said, but I watched it on
YouTube. I don't really plan on like

1253
01:24:40.720 --> 01:24:43.520
keeping up on the show, but
I did want to check out the first

1254
01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:46.039
episode. Obviously, you take it
with a grain of salt because it's reality

1255
01:24:46.119 --> 01:24:49.920
TV, so, you know,
because this could have been staged or whatnot.

1256
01:24:50.319 --> 01:24:54.439
But I know one thing that was
interesting was with the that new Diva

1257
01:24:55.000 --> 01:24:59.279
Eva Marie, where they had an
issue where the new head of talent relations

1258
01:24:59.359 --> 01:25:02.239
told there to get her hair dyed
blonde, and she ended up going to

1259
01:25:02.479 --> 01:25:08.000
the salon not feeling the blonde color
and going like a deep dark red,

1260
01:25:08.119 --> 01:25:12.279
like she called a Rhianna red.
And then they had her talk with the

1261
01:25:12.359 --> 01:25:15.439
head of talent relations and she goes, well, I'll let you get away

1262
01:25:15.479 --> 01:25:17.279
with it this time, but next
time, you definitely have to do what

1263
01:25:17.399 --> 01:25:20.600
we say, you know, otherwise, you know, you have to tow

1264
01:25:20.720 --> 01:25:24.159
the line. She literally said the
phrase toe the line and do what we

1265
01:25:24.279 --> 01:25:27.279
say, And to me, I
kind of thought, you know, staged

1266
01:25:27.399 --> 01:25:29.840
or not. It just seems sort
of weird that, you know, even

1267
01:25:30.399 --> 01:25:32.680
though she's new and maybe she's just
young and just wanted to do what she

1268
01:25:32.760 --> 01:25:36.399
wanted to do. But it seems
she explained herself even though she's you know,

1269
01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:40.000
new, doesn't really have a character, but it seems like she said,

1270
01:25:40.039 --> 01:25:43.239
this is more natural, this is
something that feels more natural to do

1271
01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:47.199
and fit with my personality. And
I'm kind of wondering, you know,

1272
01:25:47.239 --> 01:25:51.560
shouldn't WW be kind of embracing that
to some to some extent that that,

1273
01:25:51.840 --> 01:25:56.600
uh, you know, to let
a character be more of themselves and not

1274
01:25:56.720 --> 01:26:00.600
do something that would not fit that
character. Larry, you're aren't you?

1275
01:26:01.319 --> 01:26:05.039
Yes? Yeah, okay, I'm
gonna I'm gonna have have John answered that

1276
01:26:05.079 --> 01:26:08.359
question the VP after shows, because
our time with him is limited and I

1277
01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:13.079
do want to give vpers some exclusive
content, so I appreciate the question.

1278
01:26:13.199 --> 01:26:16.199
We're going to play ourselves out of
the live cast here and move into the

1279
01:26:16.319 --> 01:26:20.359
VP after show. We're gonna also
John forecast Russomania thirty a little bit and

1280
01:26:20.680 --> 01:26:26.319
look at what maybe are the biggest
chances to draw a million plus buys at

1281
01:26:26.359 --> 01:26:29.760
Russemania thirty. So on the other
side of the music Vipers will join us

1282
01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:42.760
for continuation of this discussion. Thanks
John. Anytime you're watching ww E Raw

1283
01:26:42.840 --> 01:26:45.960
or SmackDown or aw Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got

1284
01:26:45.960 --> 01:26:49.000
thoughts on the show or a topic
you want us to address or a question

1285
01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:55.840
for us. Wade Kellor Podcast at
pwtorch dot com. Wade Keller Podcast at

1286
01:26:55.920 --> 01:26:59.439
pewtorch dot com. If there's anything
else going on in pro wrestling that you

1287
01:26:59.479 --> 01:27:02.319
want us to address on our main
podcast during our mail base segments, that

1288
01:27:02.439 --> 01:27:08.359
same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at
pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction.

1289
01:27:08.880 --> 01:27:11.520
Let us know what you think of
what we're saying, and let us

1290
01:27:11.600 --> 01:27:14.920
know what you want us to talk
about and ask us specific questions. Wade

1291
01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:18.359
Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
All right, we're now in the v

1292
01:27:18.439 --> 01:27:21.680
IP. You have to show a
portion of the program. Yeah, interesting

1293
01:27:21.720 --> 01:27:25.399
question for Larry John I do you
want to tackle that right away? The

1294
01:27:25.560 --> 01:27:29.560
question is should they embrace it or
do we even think that that moment was

1295
01:27:29.760 --> 01:27:31.880
genuine? Is it kind of a
two part question. I got that from

1296
01:27:31.960 --> 01:27:36.319
Larry and also just should Vincent man
wants people to be themselves and play themselves?

1297
01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:40.760
Is it really is he? I
think what I got from the second

1298
01:27:40.800 --> 01:27:44.720
part of the question was is it
are they pushing too hard to make somebody

1299
01:27:44.800 --> 01:27:47.880
something that they're not comfortable being?
Okay, So the first part is just

1300
01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:53.840
from the genuine Was that a real
moment? Yeah? I'll put it this

1301
01:27:54.000 --> 01:28:00.560
way. If you watch a reality
TV show, there's always very specific characters.

1302
01:28:00.760 --> 01:28:02.359
There's a bad boy, there's a
bad girl. There's you know,

1303
01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:08.479
the dumb one or the naive one, or the one that you know is

1304
01:28:08.520 --> 01:28:13.560
not part of the group. You'll
start seeing those characters develop. On the

1305
01:28:13.640 --> 01:28:16.760
show. They needed the bad girl. She was the one. Was it

1306
01:28:16.840 --> 01:28:20.960
a genuine moment? Absolutely? My
guest is I don't want to say absolutely,

1307
01:28:21.079 --> 01:28:26.239
my guest is not okay, But
what I think happened is that that

1308
01:28:26.439 --> 01:28:30.560
could have been an actual discussion where
they wanted to turn her hair blonde and

1309
01:28:30.680 --> 01:28:33.199
she said, here's the way I
feel about that, and then they said,

1310
01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:35.520
you know what, now that I
think about it, why don't you

1311
01:28:35.560 --> 01:28:39.199
go get your hair red. We'll
take a look at it. If it

1312
01:28:39.279 --> 01:28:41.960
looks good, we'll allow you to
keep it. If it doesn't, you're

1313
01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:44.960
going blonde. And that was the
deal that they made. But because it's

1314
01:28:45.039 --> 01:28:48.640
television, you're going to present it
in a way that causes drama to get

1315
01:28:48.720 --> 01:28:53.079
people to want to tune in,
and that was that was a hook for

1316
01:28:53.239 --> 01:28:58.840
one of the segments of the show. So I think it's possible that that,

1317
01:28:59.199 --> 01:29:00.800
you know, it went down,
but not the way that it was

1318
01:29:00.840 --> 01:29:04.600
shown on television. I don't think
that. I think that happened the way

1319
01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:08.119
that it was shown on TV.
In the world of w w E,

1320
01:29:08.479 --> 01:29:11.399
she would have showed up with the
red hair, and I don't think it

1321
01:29:11.439 --> 01:29:16.079
would have been the head of talent
relations decision to go I'm gonna I'm gonna

1322
01:29:16.119 --> 01:29:20.960
say that this is okay because what
probably would have actually happened is all right.

1323
01:29:21.119 --> 01:29:25.000
I mean, if if that's the
way you feel about it, you

1324
01:29:25.039 --> 01:29:28.039
know, let's go talk to Vince
or Stephanie and let's see what they think.

1325
01:29:28.119 --> 01:29:30.600
And if they say yes, then
you're good. If they don't you're

1326
01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:33.399
going blonde. I don't think that
she would have walked up and said,

1327
01:29:33.439 --> 01:29:35.560
oh man, you know what,
you changed my mind. She could have

1328
01:29:35.680 --> 01:29:38.960
changed her mind, but I don't
think it happened the way that it did.

1329
01:29:40.039 --> 01:29:42.720
And then the other part of the
question is, you know why in

1330
01:29:42.880 --> 01:29:46.720
that case, why wouldn't Vince embrace
that. Vince does at times embrace that,

1331
01:29:47.119 --> 01:29:51.279
But I think that there's times too
where uh, and if happened in

1332
01:29:51.680 --> 01:29:58.880
any genre of life, if you're
completely vinced of something that will work,

1333
01:29:59.119 --> 01:30:01.800
and someone's rice telling you I don't
think I can do it. If you

1334
01:30:01.960 --> 01:30:05.159
believe that they can, you're gonna
tell them. I'm telling you this is

1335
01:30:05.199 --> 01:30:09.640
gonna work. Follow my lead on
this. I've seen him do it and

1336
01:30:10.520 --> 01:30:13.119
trust me, it's gonna work.
And then I've also seen other times where

1337
01:30:13.119 --> 01:30:15.119
he goes, man, I'm telling
you, I don't think blonde is gonna

1338
01:30:15.119 --> 01:30:17.800
work. Well, I don't think
that you can walk up to Vincent Mann

1339
01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:21.920
or anybody w W as an authority
figure and go it's not gonna work.

1340
01:30:23.319 --> 01:30:26.079
What else can I do? You
have to walk up and you have to

1341
01:30:26.119 --> 01:30:28.840
go Blonde's not gonna work. But
I'll tell you what will work. Vince

1342
01:30:29.239 --> 01:30:31.279
red hair. You know you have
Rihanna, you have this person, you

1343
01:30:31.359 --> 01:30:34.880
have that person. Look at what
you're trying to establish me as is this

1344
01:30:35.000 --> 01:30:39.960
spicy, sexy, hot girl.
Well I can stand out with red hair.

1345
01:30:40.119 --> 01:30:44.560
I can't stand out looking like Kelly
Kelly or Summer May or whoever it

1346
01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:46.000
may be. And you can convince
Vince to go, Man, you know

1347
01:30:46.039 --> 01:30:48.319
what, I never even thought about
red hair. And that's a great idea.

1348
01:30:48.439 --> 01:30:51.239
Yeah, let's do it. So
you know, people are quick to

1349
01:30:51.399 --> 01:30:57.880
rush to judgment. But it works
both ways. There's times that he but

1350
01:30:58.199 --> 01:31:00.520
again, he could have had it
in his head where he no, I'm

1351
01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:03.479
telling you, you are the blonde
bombshell. I've been waiting ten years to

1352
01:31:03.560 --> 01:31:09.560
have this girl. You fit the
mold, You're gonna be it. Trust

1353
01:31:09.680 --> 01:31:12.800
me, it's gonna work out.
And then those times when he goes great,

1354
01:31:13.000 --> 01:31:16.479
loves the idea. Let's try it, oh John, with our just

1355
01:31:16.520 --> 01:31:18.960
a few minutes left with you,
Let's let's look ahead to Rust of Mandy

1356
01:31:18.960 --> 01:31:24.880
A thirty for a minute. Does
anything on the horizon look like the most

1357
01:31:25.000 --> 01:31:29.920
likely matches are obvious main event matches
for WrestleMania thirty, And do you think

1358
01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:32.439
that the by rate news this week, not that it was a different than

1359
01:31:32.560 --> 01:31:35.359
estimates, but you know, locked
in at barely above a million, does

1360
01:31:35.439 --> 01:31:40.119
that make Vince more willing to take
a chance or more more willing to go

1361
01:31:40.239 --> 01:31:42.840
after Rock who has said, you
know, he's open to coming back,

1362
01:31:42.880 --> 01:31:44.840
and maybe he's being coy and it's
already a done deal, but you know,

1363
01:31:44.880 --> 01:31:46.239
I'm open to coming back. But
if LA trust me, at twenty

1364
01:31:46.319 --> 01:31:49.880
nine was my last match, I'm
happy with it. How does rustle Menia

1365
01:31:49.920 --> 01:31:53.000
thirty look to you? And how
do you think Vince is looking at it?

1366
01:31:53.720 --> 01:31:57.399
Yeah? I think Vince is looking
at it as you know. Again,

1367
01:31:57.439 --> 01:32:00.720
I don't know if it meant in
his expectations for what he was trying

1368
01:32:00.720 --> 01:32:04.680
to accomplish with WrestleMania twenty nine,
but I think that this is always gonna

1369
01:32:04.720 --> 01:32:08.439
want to beat what he already did, so I think he looked at this

1370
01:32:08.520 --> 01:32:11.399
as a challenge. I think he's
gonna pull out all the stops for WrestleMania

1371
01:32:11.560 --> 01:32:15.079
thirty. I think that, you
know, I think that he feels the

1372
01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:19.920
best way to get over that hump
again and beat WrestleMania twenty nine. I'm

1373
01:32:19.960 --> 01:32:25.000
sorry, twenty eight would be with
the Rocks involvement. So so I do

1374
01:32:25.239 --> 01:32:29.800
believe that, you know, whether
whether Rock is worth it or not,

1375
01:32:30.079 --> 01:32:34.000
I think Vince sees him as his
best hope. So I think that Rock

1376
01:32:34.079 --> 01:32:39.479
will be back, you know,
and I think that it could even be

1377
01:32:39.640 --> 01:32:44.359
something where maybe their initial plans where
Rock versus Brock or whoever it may have

1378
01:32:44.439 --> 01:32:46.880
been Rock Scene of three, I
don't know, And you know, they

1379
01:32:46.920 --> 01:32:49.199
couldn't look back and they go,
Okay, well, Rock SCENEA three,

1380
01:32:49.720 --> 01:32:54.560
it's losing its steam. Brock isn't
really the draw that we thought he was

1381
01:32:54.600 --> 01:32:56.760
going to be. You know.
Maybe they go back and they go,

1382
01:32:56.840 --> 01:33:00.760
look, it's WrestleMania thirty. It's
a great excuse to do Rock versus Stone

1383
01:33:00.800 --> 01:33:04.119
Cold again. How big would that
be? You know, I'm talking in

1384
01:33:04.239 --> 01:33:09.079
terms of what Vince's thinking. So
I think that if Rock comes back,

1385
01:33:09.159 --> 01:33:14.359
they're they're gonna find the absolute biggest
opponent for him. But I don't think

1386
01:33:14.359 --> 01:33:17.720
it's gonna be Sena. It could
be Undertaker, you know, and maybe

1387
01:33:17.800 --> 01:33:23.199
by the time WrestleMania thirty comes around
or Royal Rumble, maybe Rock will see

1388
01:33:23.279 --> 01:33:25.880
somebody that they go, I'm telling
you, this guy's ready put him against

1389
01:33:25.960 --> 01:33:28.319
me. But I think he's gonna
do everything he can. I wouldn't be

1390
01:33:28.359 --> 01:33:31.000
surprised if he goes to TNA and
get permission to bring Hogan back, not

1391
01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:38.319
to work a match, but to
be part of the festivities. I wouldn't

1392
01:33:38.319 --> 01:33:42.760
be surprised to see Batista, Jericho, all the big names pack. I

1393
01:33:42.880 --> 01:33:46.119
also wouldn't be surprised that he doesn't
try to get a big celebrity to come

1394
01:33:46.159 --> 01:33:51.159
and participate in a match. I
don't really know who that could be right

1395
01:33:51.279 --> 01:33:56.399
now, and again, by the
time WrestleMania thirty comes around, it could

1396
01:33:56.439 --> 01:33:58.560
be anybody. But I mean,
like even right now, you know,

1397
01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:03.119
I would think in terms of maybe
getting like a Rod's going to say,

1398
01:34:04.920 --> 01:34:08.399
trying to get a shark, you
know, shark Nader hues right now,

1399
01:34:08.439 --> 01:34:11.560
see if you can put a guy
in a tank against the shark. Not

1400
01:34:11.760 --> 01:34:16.960
I'm being you know, uh,
facetious there. But you know, I

1401
01:34:17.079 --> 01:34:19.760
don't know. I don't know what
he's gonna do because you know, a

1402
01:34:19.880 --> 01:34:24.079
lot of things too is WrestleMania has
planned out almost a year in advance,

1403
01:34:24.199 --> 01:34:27.640
but things can change. I mean, he could have saw that by rate

1404
01:34:27.680 --> 01:34:30.319
and said no, no, no, no no. Rock versus Rock isn't

1405
01:34:30.359 --> 01:34:34.640
working, Triple H versus Curtis Axel
isn't working. We're going to change this

1406
01:34:34.760 --> 01:34:38.680
whole thing. And you know,
there was the I know that the I

1407
01:34:38.800 --> 01:34:43.039
read something where I don't know who
said it. I think maybe Shawn Michaels

1408
01:34:43.079 --> 01:34:47.399
had said it where he kind of
revealed WrestleMania twenty six was originally you know,

1409
01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:56.079
uh Undertaker versus jamac and Tyre and
uh Triple HS versus miss And and

1410
01:34:56.239 --> 01:35:00.319
Sean versus Shamus, and and that
that was what the plan was, and

1411
01:35:00.439 --> 01:35:05.640
that was changed. Gosh, I
think just right before Royal Rumble, so

1412
01:35:06.119 --> 01:35:09.840
it could change. And I don't
know what they have planned, but I'm

1413
01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:12.239
telling you this is going to pull
out all the stops for this one.

1414
01:35:13.399 --> 01:35:15.279
We have Dan Maddigan last week,
excreative team member in the early two thousands

1415
01:35:15.279 --> 01:35:17.920
about Vincent man Quirks. I know
we've talked to you too about them before.

1416
01:35:17.960 --> 01:35:23.000
He brought up the the idea of
no yawning, and then Dan brought

1417
01:35:23.079 --> 01:35:25.159
up, you know, lions in
the jungle yawn you know, but Vince

1418
01:35:25.199 --> 01:35:29.000
he's as a sign of weakness,
and also that he didn't know what a

1419
01:35:29.039 --> 01:35:31.600
burrito was, even though he pack
wraps every day for lunch with ketchup on

1420
01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:35.520
him and didn't think anyone else knew
what a brito was any I know we've

1421
01:35:35.560 --> 01:35:39.680
asked you and you probably told the
story before, but anything jump out as

1422
01:35:39.760 --> 01:35:44.920
the most interesting anecdote about Vince being
in a bubble and kind of almost comically

1423
01:35:45.039 --> 01:35:48.600
being out of touch with something or
having a weird quirk. Man, I

1424
01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:53.359
don't remember anything I would have told
you, so if I repeat myself,

1425
01:35:53.399 --> 01:35:56.680
I apologize. But yeah, number
one, that's funny. He doesn't know

1426
01:35:56.680 --> 01:35:59.800
what a burrito is, yet he
eats one for lunch every day. Expect

1427
01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:01.600
it's brought up. He goes,
what, what what is a burrito?

1428
01:36:01.840 --> 01:36:04.960
And they're like, it's what you
know? It's this thing you who would

1429
01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:08.479
know that? Who else would know
what that was? Nobody knows what that

1430
01:36:08.680 --> 01:36:13.119
is? It was like anyway,
Yeah, that's that's what's great. And

1431
01:36:13.319 --> 01:36:15.239
that's also a weakness for this though. You know, if he doesn't think,

1432
01:36:15.439 --> 01:36:18.439
if he doesn't know something, then
nobody else knows it. Just just

1433
01:36:18.600 --> 01:36:23.000
like I think I've explained before,
if he doesn't remember something happening, nobody

1434
01:36:23.079 --> 01:36:25.680
else is going to remember it happening. So we're good. To go.

1435
01:36:26.760 --> 01:36:30.000
You know. Uh, I think
at one point he was asked, you

1436
01:36:30.079 --> 01:36:32.920
know, Vice, do you do
you even know what the highest rated show

1437
01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:36.600
on television is? And his answer
was, of course, of course I

1438
01:36:36.760 --> 01:36:42.840
do it Steinfeld. He still thought
that Science Feld was the highest rated show

1439
01:36:42.920 --> 01:36:45.560
on TV in two thousand and nine. In two thousand and ten, Man

1440
01:36:45.840 --> 01:36:50.000
and he thought it was called Steinfeld. So you know, I bet you

1441
01:36:50.079 --> 01:36:53.479
if we could have you know,
got Kramer on there, he would have

1442
01:36:53.520 --> 01:36:56.560
thought that was a big snag.
Although I would have might be, h,

1443
01:36:57.199 --> 01:36:59.319
yeah, it might be, but
I would have loved Da Kramer on

1444
01:36:59.399 --> 01:37:02.119
there. But yeah, yeah,
I can't think of anything else off the

1445
01:37:02.199 --> 01:37:04.159
top of my head. I'm sure
if I was given more time, I

1446
01:37:04.239 --> 01:37:08.640
could probably think of something. But
that wasn't stuck with me because it kind

1447
01:37:08.640 --> 01:37:14.079
of showed just how out of touch
he is outside of his bubble. Yes,

1448
01:37:15.479 --> 01:37:18.800
absolutely, I mean there's just I
do think Vince Wokman has ever been

1449
01:37:18.920 --> 01:37:26.359
inside a target? Ooh, oh, you know another story that you reminded

1450
01:37:26.399 --> 01:37:30.600
me of by saying that, Yeah, I don't know where they're located,

1451
01:37:30.640 --> 01:37:33.479
but I remember like one of the
favorite places for the writers to go when

1452
01:37:33.520 --> 01:37:38.279
we were going from city to city
one because it was always openly. But

1453
01:37:38.359 --> 01:37:40.640
man, they thought it was the
greatest place to eat in the world.

1454
01:37:40.680 --> 01:37:43.920
I thought it was all right,
but Steak and Shake. I don't know

1455
01:37:43.960 --> 01:37:48.079
if you know what that place is. But at one point Vince was in

1456
01:37:48.199 --> 01:37:54.119
the limo and they were hungry,
so they pull over to get food and

1457
01:37:54.119 --> 01:37:58.840
they walk in a Steak and Shake
and Vince wats to order a steak and

1458
01:37:58.960 --> 01:38:03.239
they goes, you know, we
apologize, we don't we don't sell steaks.

1459
01:38:03.319 --> 01:38:05.439
Now, forgive me. I don't
know the menu by heart, but

1460
01:38:05.680 --> 01:38:12.640
it's pretty much a burger joint.
And he probably spent ten minutes talking with

1461
01:38:12.880 --> 01:38:15.960
the cashier about how they could call
the place Steak and Shake yet not have

1462
01:38:16.079 --> 01:38:19.039
a steak for him. So then
he asked if they could make him one,

1463
01:38:19.119 --> 01:38:23.520
and they couldn't make him one.
So, uh, just just sort

1464
01:38:23.560 --> 01:38:29.239
of being so out of touch with
I guess reality in a script. Yeah,

1465
01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:33.159
but I don't know. That's one
of the great things about this well,

1466
01:38:33.239 --> 01:38:35.880
it makes it entertaining to talk about
him. I mean, they're just

1467
01:38:36.359 --> 01:38:40.960
as driven, as madly driven and
single minded as he is. There's a

1468
01:38:41.039 --> 01:38:45.199
price that is paid for that,
and you know, what is your hunch.

1469
01:38:45.479 --> 01:38:47.520
By the way, getting back to
that question of whether he's ever been

1470
01:38:47.640 --> 01:38:54.319
inside a target, I would probably
say, uh, I would if I

1471
01:38:54.479 --> 01:38:57.359
was putting money on it, I
would say, he knows what a target

1472
01:38:57.520 --> 01:39:00.720
is, but I don't think he's
ever been in one. Yeah. Yeah,

1473
01:39:01.279 --> 01:39:03.600
give yourself a reason to look forward
to. Go into the mailbox each

1474
01:39:03.640 --> 01:39:11.079
week with a Pwtorch Newsletter paper copy. Subscription details at pwtorch dot com slash

1475
01:39:11.159 --> 01:39:15.199
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week packed with my TV reports, along

1476
01:39:15.239 --> 01:39:17.520
with exclusive features such as my cover
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1477
01:39:17.960 --> 01:39:23.000
our pay per view roundtable reviews from
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1478
01:39:23.119 --> 01:39:27.960
columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Shan Radikin, Alan Coonahan and Zach

1479
01:39:28.039 --> 01:39:31.920
Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the
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1480
01:39:31.960 --> 01:39:38.239
Com slash paper Copy take a break
from screen time and settle in every week

1481
01:39:38.560 --> 01:39:42.279
with a megados of wrestling news and
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1482
01:39:42.520 --> 01:39:45.279
paper copy edition. In the year
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1483
01:39:45.479 --> 01:39:49.920
full year of home delivery for just
ninety nine dollars, or try us for

1484
01:39:50.039 --> 01:40:00.479
an eight week trial subscription pwtorch dot
com slash paper copy, John, have

1485
01:40:00.520 --> 01:40:04.199
you gotta go go? We just
got an email from from Dewey who says

1486
01:40:04.239 --> 01:40:06.600
that you're one of his favorite guests
and he just got home and he wanted

1487
01:40:06.600 --> 01:40:09.399
to sneak in a question. Do
you have a minute answered or do you

1488
01:40:09.479 --> 01:40:13.800
gotta run? Yeah? Absolutely?
Okay? Cool from Dewey from Cincinnati.

1489
01:40:13.880 --> 01:40:15.319
I just got home and saw that
you were interviewing one of my favorite guests,

1490
01:40:15.319 --> 01:40:17.479
and I totally missed it, but
I thought maybe there was still time

1491
01:40:17.520 --> 01:40:19.880
to sneak in a question for the
VIP after show. So barely, but

1492
01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:23.840
yes, Dewey, John, I
believe you were in w w E around

1493
01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:26.640
the time or right after Paul Hamer
is having problems working with Stephanie and other

1494
01:40:26.680 --> 01:40:30.399
people and left the company. That
did that predate you? Yeah, I

1495
01:40:30.560 --> 01:40:36.239
think that was That was a December
of the year before I came in.

1496
01:40:36.359 --> 01:40:40.920
I think okay, But he says
now that he's back in the company,

1497
01:40:41.039 --> 01:40:44.000
do you think he's been given an
opportunity to get given put on the creative

1498
01:40:44.039 --> 01:40:46.039
side? Also, do you know
if Dutch men Tell is working with creative

1499
01:40:46.079 --> 01:40:49.680
at all? Because he Dutch worked
H. T and A was on A

1500
01:40:49.760 --> 01:40:53.399
T and A creative team in the
mid two thousand and Finally, do think

1501
01:40:53.439 --> 01:40:55.840
when Stephanie and Triple HS come int
power they would ever decide to go back

1502
01:40:55.880 --> 01:40:58.199
to just having a small group of
two to four people booking the program and

1503
01:40:58.319 --> 01:41:00.239
writing the shows as was done the
nineties. I hope you get this in

1504
01:41:00.319 --> 01:41:03.600
time. Thanks for coming back on
the show. Okay, can you go?

1505
01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:06.079
Can you go through the questions one
by one? Yeah? So,

1506
01:41:06.640 --> 01:41:10.439
Paul Hayman, do you think that
what's your hunch or have you heard if

1507
01:41:10.479 --> 01:41:13.560
he has any kind of creative input
out perhaps outside of his own storylines.

1508
01:41:14.640 --> 01:41:17.600
I don't. I don't think so. I don't. I don't even know

1509
01:41:17.680 --> 01:41:21.239
if he wants to. I think
that he's happy just kind of. I

1510
01:41:21.319 --> 01:41:27.199
know he's really involved with the stories
that he's involved with, though, so

1511
01:41:28.640 --> 01:41:30.680
I know, I know Paul is
super involved in telling his stories, and

1512
01:41:30.760 --> 01:41:33.680
I'm sure Hayman is a big part
of that. But I don't think that

1513
01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:39.039
Hayman sits in on any meetings and
and look again it's speculation. I'm sure

1514
01:41:39.119 --> 01:41:41.840
that there's you know, guys that
walk up to him and ask him for

1515
01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:45.039
advice. I mean, they'd be
idiots. Not sure. Yeah, So

1516
01:41:45.239 --> 01:41:46.600
I think he helps in that regard, and I think that, you know,

1517
01:41:48.119 --> 01:41:51.079
I'm sure if I was a writer
there, I would definitely utilize him

1518
01:41:51.279 --> 01:41:53.800
and go to him and go,
hey, you know I was, I

1519
01:41:53.880 --> 01:41:55.840
was thinking of this, what do
you think of this? Or how can

1520
01:41:55.880 --> 01:41:59.600
we do this? I think that
he'd probably be involved in that aspect,

1521
01:41:59.640 --> 01:42:01.640
but I don't think he's going to
production meetings, and I don't think that

1522
01:42:02.439 --> 01:42:06.880
he's going to any writers meetings and
giving his input. I don't think that.

1523
01:42:08.399 --> 01:42:12.039
For the same question regarding Dutch Mantell, I don't think he's doing it,

1524
01:42:12.199 --> 01:42:15.399
but I'd be pretty confident in saying
that he's probably floating some ideas through

1525
01:42:15.439 --> 01:42:21.000
creative for his current storyline. Yep. And then his last question was do

1526
01:42:21.039 --> 01:42:25.880
you think Triple H and Stephanie when
they take over for Vince? And,

1527
01:42:25.960 --> 01:42:29.800
as I noted earlier this week,
I think on a on a Keller hotline

1528
01:42:29.800 --> 01:42:32.920
when somebody is talking about this,
Vincent Mann might be running the company when

1529
01:42:33.319 --> 01:42:36.399
Triple H and Stephanie are in their
sixties. So let's keep that in mind.

1530
01:42:36.439 --> 01:42:40.039
I mean, he's not necessarily going
anywhere quickly, although you know,

1531
01:42:40.079 --> 01:42:44.319
he'll face down his hours as as
his energy, uh, you know,

1532
01:42:44.399 --> 01:42:47.680
reserves require But but that's a whole
other topic. But if they were to

1533
01:42:47.720 --> 01:42:50.439
take over sometime in the near future, do you think that they would go

1534
01:42:50.520 --> 01:42:55.840
back to that more small inner circle
writing team instead of having the multist multi

1535
01:42:55.920 --> 01:43:00.800
layered structure that they have now.
I guess it depends on how they want

1536
01:43:00.880 --> 01:43:05.439
their company to be viewed. And
I still feel like Triple H and Stephanie,

1537
01:43:05.600 --> 01:43:11.000
especially Stephanie, want to be an
entertainment company and not just a wrestling

1538
01:43:11.119 --> 01:43:16.039
company. So I think that a
lot of the reason for having writers and

1539
01:43:16.199 --> 01:43:18.720
bringing in you know, everyone always
questions, man, why do they bring

1540
01:43:18.800 --> 01:43:21.560
in these soap opera writers if you
know and they don't even laugh. I

1541
01:43:21.640 --> 01:43:27.920
think the answer to that is that
they can say they have that person on

1542
01:43:28.039 --> 01:43:30.720
staff. I think they like saying
they have a writing team. I think

1543
01:43:30.720 --> 01:43:34.359
they like saying that they their head
writer is a guy who used to write

1544
01:43:34.479 --> 01:43:38.800
on this and this and that.
And I think that, you know,

1545
01:43:40.720 --> 01:43:45.239
certain people mark out for certain things. And I think that as much as

1546
01:43:45.319 --> 01:43:49.520
they want to say that, they
hate bringing in quote unquote wrestling fans as

1547
01:43:49.600 --> 01:43:55.880
writers because they don't want those people
to to whether it's mark out or whether

1548
01:43:56.000 --> 01:44:00.520
it's just have only one way of
thinking. I think they they're the same

1549
01:44:00.600 --> 01:44:04.800
way. I mean, I think
that they felt like Freddy Prince Junior was

1550
01:44:04.840 --> 01:44:10.319
a huge asset on the writing team
just because his name was Freddie Prince Junior.

1551
01:44:10.399 --> 01:44:14.319
And they can tell people they had
Freddie Prince Junior. I don't think

1552
01:44:14.680 --> 01:44:17.520
from again, from the time that
I came in right after he left,

1553
01:44:17.600 --> 01:44:24.359
and then he came in probably my
last few months there, and from what

1554
01:44:24.520 --> 01:44:27.960
I saw, I didn't I didn't
see anything that would make me go,

1555
01:44:28.079 --> 01:44:30.960
my god, it's a good thing
we got Freddie Prince Junior on board.

1556
01:44:30.640 --> 01:44:34.479
Yeah. Well, you can imagine
just like the sales team, you know,

1557
01:44:34.600 --> 01:44:38.640
selling or USA Network for that instance, in their sales team selling raw

1558
01:44:39.239 --> 01:44:42.000
and you know, some corporation going
why would I want to advertise in pro

1559
01:44:42.119 --> 01:44:44.119
wrestling? It teams, so,
you know, and then all the negative

1560
01:44:44.119 --> 01:44:45.319
adjectives or thoughts that come to mind, and they're like, oh no,

1561
01:44:45.439 --> 01:44:48.039
no, this is different. This
is sports entertainment. And we've got you

1562
01:44:48.079 --> 01:44:51.199
know on the writing team includes heck, Freddie Prince Junior. I'm sure you've

1563
01:44:51.199 --> 01:44:55.720
heard of him, and uh,
and this writer from a soap opera and

1564
01:44:55.800 --> 01:45:00.439
another guy who actually was wrote an
episode of Friends, and that that,

1565
01:45:00.960 --> 01:45:04.920
from just a sales standpoint, strategically
might make somebody who's hesitant to associate with

1566
01:45:05.000 --> 01:45:09.199
wrestling, uh, suddenly look at
it differently. But if you go,

1567
01:45:09.600 --> 01:45:12.119
well we're different, and they go, yeah, well who writes the show,

1568
01:45:12.399 --> 01:45:15.439
Well this guy called Dutch Mantell and
this other guy called Paul heyman,

1569
01:45:15.840 --> 01:45:18.479
it's you know, there is some
value in just having somebody there just for

1570
01:45:18.560 --> 01:45:21.960
their resume. And I think too, I think a lot of that has

1571
01:45:23.039 --> 01:45:25.920
to do with I think they want
to pay to be able to say that,

1572
01:45:26.079 --> 01:45:29.640
and I think that that's why a
lot of times, you know,

1573
01:45:29.760 --> 01:45:32.800
they may roll their eyes when when
writers have a suggestion. I think that

1574
01:45:32.920 --> 01:45:36.760
they still want to book and run
the company the way that they want to

1575
01:45:36.840 --> 01:45:41.079
do it. And if you disagree, or if you have a philosophy difference

1576
01:45:41.159 --> 01:45:45.000
in theirs, they don't really care, you know, they just want to

1577
01:45:45.079 --> 01:45:46.560
be able to say, look,
just sit here, you're you're like you

1578
01:45:46.640 --> 01:45:51.880
said, you're part of the sales
pitch. And I'm sure that there's some

1579
01:45:53.079 --> 01:45:58.920
people that they appreciate. I think
is the best word their opinion more than

1580
01:45:59.000 --> 01:46:02.239
others. But I think for the
most part is look, we got Sandled,

1581
01:46:02.279 --> 01:46:04.920
we need you to come up with
some of these ideas, but we're

1582
01:46:04.960 --> 01:46:09.439
going to lead you to how we
want you to do it and then going

1583
01:46:09.520 --> 01:46:12.920
back to your thing. But I
think they look at it as we got

1584
01:46:13.000 --> 01:46:17.319
Freddie Prince Junior here, and he's
more important to us as someone we could

1585
01:46:17.319 --> 01:46:20.520
say, hey, Freddie Prince Junior
is here, but in order to keep

1586
01:46:20.640 --> 01:46:24.319
him happy, yeah, we got
to listen to him a little bit more.

1587
01:46:24.319 --> 01:46:28.840
I mean, I remember, as
great as some people are going to

1588
01:46:28.880 --> 01:46:31.279
think this idea is, and hey, I'd love to see it, but

1589
01:46:31.399 --> 01:46:34.760
at the time when it was pitched, it made zero sense to do it.

1590
01:46:35.119 --> 01:46:41.640
But I think it was like our
first, our first three hour raw

1591
01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:46.359
in a long time, and it
was okay, guys, we need a

1592
01:46:46.439 --> 01:46:50.239
theme. We need to find something
to do for three hours. And there

1593
01:46:50.359 --> 01:46:55.239
was all these ideas, you know, crazy ideas gett't tossed around. One

1594
01:46:55.319 --> 01:46:57.840
being you know, let's do King
of the Ring. One was, you

1595
01:46:57.920 --> 01:47:01.399
know, let's do these battle Royals. One was whatever it may be,

1596
01:47:02.039 --> 01:47:08.960
and he had pitched let's do Daniel
Bryan versus CM punk in an Iron Man

1597
01:47:09.079 --> 01:47:12.039
match, and again people are sitting
there going, oh man, I'd love

1598
01:47:12.119 --> 01:47:14.960
to see that. But again,
that's a great match, but it needs

1599
01:47:15.039 --> 01:47:17.920
to be done at the proper time
and for the right reason, and to

1600
01:47:18.079 --> 01:47:21.000
just throw it out there when Punk
wasn't being utilized, I think he was

1601
01:47:21.039 --> 01:47:26.840
still on SmackDown. Daniel Bryan was, I think, just right out of

1602
01:47:26.960 --> 01:47:31.479
NXT. And you know, if
I were to pitch that, I think

1603
01:47:31.520 --> 01:47:35.159
that I would have been sat down
and given wrestling one on one lesson,

1604
01:47:35.880 --> 01:47:41.119
and instead it was oh god,
yeah, you know, as great as

1605
01:47:41.159 --> 01:47:45.359
that might be. Oh man,
Yeah, let's consider that, but what

1606
01:47:45.479 --> 01:47:47.079
do you think of this instead?
And I think it was just more so

1607
01:47:47.239 --> 01:47:51.039
make this guy happy so he sticks
her out. Yeah, yep, now

1608
01:47:51.119 --> 01:47:56.159
that that makes a lot of sense. John, Thank you so much for

1609
01:47:56.239 --> 01:48:00.840
your time again and you're insight analysis
what's going on today in some cool behind

1610
01:48:00.880 --> 01:48:03.800
the scenes stories as always from your
days there. It's always fun. Great.

1611
01:48:03.880 --> 01:48:06.239
Thank you so much. Wait,
great, John. Thanks to all

1612
01:48:06.279 --> 01:48:12.479
the VFP members for joining us so
you can follow men on Twitter at John

1613
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as himself on Twitter, and we
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1614
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support of the VP show. Just
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1615
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Communications and Pro Wrestling Torch. It is

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1620
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on that note, I will sign
off. Feel free to follow me

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at d Wade Keller speaking of Twitter
at the Wade Keller and follow us on

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Facebook and keep in touch with the
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and Twitter is at PW Torch and
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1625
01:49:08.119 --> 01:49:28.960
until next time, Wait Keller thanking
you again and signing up. Invite you

1626
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to email the show with feedback or
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1627
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Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot

1628
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com. Also welcome your feedback on
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1630
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And if you want, you can
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about the programs in the comments section. Thank you so much. Are you

1640
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a nostalgic wrestling finn? Do you
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1641
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in ten, twenty, maybe even
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you. I'm pwsworch dot com contributor
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1646
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In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the

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developmental system and ultimately the brand you
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NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be
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The Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features long form

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Lighter and our I was there When
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Follow news from the WWF and WCW
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wrestling industry in real time as the
Torch reported date thirty years ago, that's

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the nineties. Passcasts every Friday on
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