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Wade fifty to get fifty percent off. Now PW Torchen Spreaker bring you the
Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic, where
Wade Killer interviews one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers ten years ago. This month,
I had a reality TV show producer and x WWWE creative team member on the
show to deconstruct the premier episode of Total Divas. That's John Piermarini, who
has experience working behind the scenes in WWWE with some of the people on that
show and also worked for America's Got Talent on network television. You might still
be there. Actually. We also had more insight from him on working with
fitstick Man on the creative process, including advice on how to present ideas to
him. He also analyzed how to be changed from his perspective since he was
there in the two thousand nine twenty ten period. He also reacted to the
Restomania twenty nine by rate, looked ahead to WrestleMania thirty, and much more
with live callers and email questions. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast
Interview Classic for Friday, August eleventh, twenty twenty three. This interview originally
live streamed on August second, twenty thirteen, again ten years ago this month.
Here we go with this fascinating and full of insight interview which John pier
Marine. Welcome to the p wtrche live tast I am Wade Keller, Editor
and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven, still mailed
up round the world worldwide once a week and also available in PDF and a'll
text formative VIP members at at the PW Torch VAP website. Also editor of
the Pwtorch dot com websites nineteen ninety nine and the PW Torch apps since two
thousand and nine, available on pretty much all smartphone app store devices and also
host of the pw Torch webcast for over three and a half years in counting.
We are here every single day, Monday through Friday. We're here Tuesday
through Friday at five thirty Eastern for an hour or so, and Monday's in
the hour leading into Raw. This is Friday, so therefore it is Interview
Friday and our guest today and just a couple of minutes, it's going to
be John Piermarinio, returning guest of the program to talk about current events in
WWE, including the Total Divas program and also the latest Sava swe We'll look
ahead to Wrestle many A thirties line up, look back at the rest of
many a twenty nine VIY rate with all the financial information that came out yesterday
in World Wrestling Entertainment's quarterly financial statements, plus look at SummerSlam, the push
of Danielbrian to the top, and more. A lot has happened since John
Piermarini was a writer on the creative team in ww E a few years ago,
and we'll get his take on what he of things today. But first
we hear a little background noise because we're gonna be joined briefly by a familiar
voice. Torch senior columnist Bruce Mitchell, who is live on location this weekend
since yesterday and through the weekend at the annual mid Atlantic Wrestling fan Fest convention.
Bruce, are you there? Yes, I am excellent. What's going
on there at the convention? Who are some of the names? And to
share a couple of stories with us. Let's say, just watched the sitting
in the lobby watching magnun Ta catch up with mister wrestling number two. Magnam
Ta is probably one of the big highlights of this so far. They question
an answer about the equipment match at Starcade in nineteen eighty five between Maguntia and
Tully Blanchard and to see those two on the stage with their history. Of
course, matt sis been put on a lot of w DVDs, including the
WV Cage Match TV because it's such an intense match to say and well remembered.
But those two, you know, Magnantier was in a car crash and
then his wrestling career, and to see how well he's doing and I don't
mean physically, although he's doing well physically compared to what he's been in the
path, but to see how how grunt, how he's accepted what's happened to
him and did very responsible to what he's done with his family, what he's
done with his business, and how he how he handled himself. And the
fact that these two Magnantia is married to Tully Blancher's ex wife and has raised
two of Tully Glancher's children as as a stepfather. And so, you know,
you never really know that such a personal thing, you never really know
how that goes. And clearly they've had a long path, a long difficult
path, but they come to a place where, you know, the whole
world's full of different types of families and all kinds of blended families, and
they have clearly come to the other side and appreciate and respect each other.
And both were talking about that and a pretty amazing thing to see. That
was definitely the highlight you know so far, you know, and Tolly Glance
would do it. You know, it's not had had an easy life since
he left the mainstream of wrestling doing well just what you know, lots of
folks Tommy Richard, in a few minutes, it's gonna be the hall of
Heroes banquet, Lawrence Anderson, one of the Anderson the one of the original
Anderson brothers, were returning to this area for the first time in thirty years.
Lock and All Express, Midnight Express, Jim Cornette left thatcher, Jerry
Jarrett here and then tonight. It's something I'm really excited about. You know,
we helped with the Kickstarter campaign for the documentary Jim Crockert Promotions, The
Glory Days, and I mean Michael Elliott, the director, the producer about
it. I mean literally got it done at the at on midnight a week
and a half ago to get so that they could be produced and ready for
this for the thing. And you're writing a newsletter column exactly the deadline.
Yeah, and exactly and and and hopefully go as a results that I come
up with. But you know the first time that Jim Crockett and David Crockette
have talked on on record about Jim Crocker promotions, about their father, about
the whole promotions, about everything that happened, including the end, and you
know, a premiere a movie. And I helped with this movie. So
I'm really I really, I mean I really hope not just because of that's
just it's a subject I think that deserves deserves but I you know, to
see that tonight ought to be a bit, you know, ought to be
a big thing. So it's a public screening, Bruce. So people who
are listening to us live and in the air and live in the area,
they can actually get out there still and and uh see maybe okay, I
would say maybe. I mean, it just depends you you got to got
to buy a DVD or you have to do you have to be part of
the kickstarter program or isn't it okay? Alright like that, So and of
looking on just lots of lots of different wrestlers from a lot of different times
around and talking a lot of the writers and authors of some of the books
to So yeah, definitely definitely did some contact with that, talking to people
and and doing that the tomorrow tomorrow's some wrestling with Davy Richards and then he
Edwards and there was a four day there was a four day training with Tom
Pritchard and Jeffy Riska involved with a lot of the wrestlers and just really interesting
what Bruce, what city, what city is it in? And and is
it and it's every the first weekend of August every year. I think it's
gonna be that it's in Charlotte, North Carolina at the University Hilton. I
should say that they owe Anderson here just you know, it's one of the
fishs. You look around and go, hey they're so and so, Hey
is that who I think it is? And and see a lot of people
like walking the street to Bella and seeing movie stars, except it's wrestlers in
your as you're wrestling fan. Yeah, if you're wrestling fan and you know
who the people are, so it's yeah, they definitely and then just a
lot of people from a lot of errors of professional wrestling. So how many
years has it been this convention been going on? Drews nine years? Yeah,
it's like the nine one in one more year. So our friend Jim
Valley, who we had on the first time meeting him, flew all the
way from from Washington State to be here and so he's you know, mostly
to meet you and enjoined it. I don't know about that, but definitely
liked this quality wality can so yeah, it's pretty cool. You know,
a pretty cool deal on that's pretty that's we'll see so well, but yeah,
I know I know I'm missing stuff, but I know I'm missing like
some of the some of the other highlights. But but you know, this
is a banquet just a few minutes and I or I'd be doing more for
this starting at six o'clock. And and that's always you know, you know,
in different tables, everybody gets to sit with with somebody famous and talk
to them and interact with them. And oh yeah, I should say,
our friend J. J. Dillon say, oh great, I guess on
the show. We just got a really nice email, Bruce, from somebody
who saw J. J. Dillon at that Medicine Score Garden show and I
think maybe the first wrestling show I ever went to. And he remembered that
card as well as JJ did, and uh just emailed how special it was
to hear JJ tell that story and he wanted to thank you for asking a
great question. Oh cool, Well, JJ was, you know, really
appreciative of being on the show. And Scott Tell, who published the book,
thank us. They definitely got some worse. So I'm glad to hear
that. People, you know, just an excellent book. So Russell Rustlers
are like seagulls James J. Dillon's store, So I you know, I
try not to recommend stuff that's not that's not really good, and if you're
trying to, I do, I go out of my way not to exactly.
Yeah, yeah, so interesting. Thank you for subscribing to the weight
Keller Progress podcast and weight Keller Pro Wrestling post shows. Don't forget we got
a whole lineup of other shows called the PW Torch Daily Cast. It's free.
Just search p w torch in your podcast stapp a different show on a
different topic throughout the week, including shows dedicated to a E W n X,
T M M, A Ring of Honor, and more. Just search
PW Torch in your podcast stapp, or check out links to the latest shows
at our main website, pwtorch dot com. Well, good for We've got
John Vimrini on the line. We're gonna shift gears and talk current events about
WWE. But it's cool to have you on location at a one of the
bigger, longer running wrestling conventions with a great gathering at names than I look
forward to hearing your report on the Bruce which Alato show for. Well,
you should wait till we have Spruce. Okay, go ahead, go ahead,
Just want to figure about this play your point announce for still the Nain
Wrestling with Midcarrch. I'm trying to think of thanks. Thanks for waiting for
me to finish the plug in start that breaking news. Yeah, so as
I'm sure so we will. We will talk to you more about the convention
on the Bruce Mitchel Audio Show for VIP members this weekend, and then you'll
be hosting with Travis Bryant on Monday, this very show in the hour leading
up to raw and so live cast listeners can also get a summary version of
what we talk about on the Bruce Mitchell Audio Show this weekend. Once you're
done with the convention, so very cool and having the convention, will some
seats or planet here the convention will find their way into the livecast on the
interview Friday. So yeah, absolutely, especially with a documentary out, we're
gonna want to you know, supplement that and augment it with some good guests.
Yeah. Excellent. Bruce Mitchell senior column us for Pro Wrestling, Torch
Newsletter and twtorch dot Com and audio co host of Well the Star of the
Bruce Mitchell Audio Show for VIP Members. He has been with The Torch since
nineteen ninety. Bruce, thanks for joining us, and we'll talk to you
over the weekend and also on Monday, you'll be hosting the live cast.
Good deal, fright? Thanks prettymu all right, and now we shift gears
to uh mister John Pierre Marini, former WWE creative Team member in two thousand
and nine and twenty ten. Is that right, John? Yep, that's
right. And man, it's that felt like this yesterday and now it's starting
to feel like a long time ago, isn't it. It's strange. Yeah,
you know, I was just I was just going through a box that
I had in my garage. I had a buddy over and want to see
if I had anything that I could give them, And I was looking through
a box and I saw some notes from a production meeting. God, I
don't even remember half of the stuff that I wrote down. So it's starting
to as much as it feels like yesterday, I'm losing all the memories.
Yeah. Yeah, Well, I mean, what are you up to these
days? We don't You're on the show a lot. We talk about wrestling,
but anything to share about what current projects or jobs or different things you're
doing post wrestling, Yeah, you know, I got a independent movie that
I wrote that's going through the final stages of funding right how so hopefully beginning
of the year we start with that. I think that we are going to
start casting here in the next month or so. Got a TV pilot that
hopefully, again at the beginning of the year, I'll be able to start
pitching around. So a couple of things, a couple of things around the
turn. So hopefully they they both work out and uh, and it'll be
good, very good, good good see things that are happening. Well,
let's shift gears. You have On the show before, talked about reality show
ideas spinoffs from uh for ww A to add to their programming and get fans
or the universe a different perspective on WWE. What what were your thoughts watching
Total Divas this Sunday. You know, uh, typical reality show. I
mean it's it's uh, it's a typical show that you would be you know,
based around uh, you know, in the vein of Kardashians and and
all the all the rest. Yeah, you know, I think it's uh,
it's about w w E Divas, But you know, I think that
they're trying to push more so than their first life over the wrestling storyline,
because Hollywood isn't a very big wrestling fan, so I think you're gonna tend
to see more stories orchestrated around and share personal lives than you will around the
river playing rink, John, we're getting a decent amount of background noise.
Not sure if there's anything you can do to correct it, because it's colorable,
but but we're definitely hearing strange noise of the background that might get distracting.
I held that. Let me try to switch that sure things, Sure
Things. The from been all asking a question too, are you doing that
the for the It's so hard for me when watching that show to imagine somebody
watching it who's not a wrestling fan or very very casual fan, you know,
kind of sort of a way who who John Seen is, but maybe
not anybody else that kind of thing. How about you from watching that show?
Did that come across as and it maybe it's hard for you too,
but did it come across with the show that would fit on E schedule?
Where like I don't need to into rich housewife, you don't have to be
in a rich housewife to enjoy watching them kind of in a voyeuristic way.
Was this a good reality show that that that was mainstream enough that you think
it'll hold the pretty solid rating or good rating it did on Funday, you
know, and that's where you know, I kind of bring back the you
know there there probably won't be a lot of wrestling related storylines in it.
I think that typically, you know, the female audience that watches reality shows,
you could put anything on TV and they're gonna watch it, you know,
anyone that's been proven every reality show that's on there. It could be
the absolute craziest thing and they're watching it. But I think that it has
the opportunity to hold the rating. Again, I think that they're going to
go away from the wrestling as much as they can while still kind of keeping
it true to here's a story about you know, girls that work for WWE.
But I think you're going to see a lot more storyline sort of produced
around you know, their personal life. Again, it's not it's not a
coincidence that every girl on the show has a boyfriend, while you know,
some divas are absent that that may not. So I think that kind of
tells you where they're head at as far as where they're looking to go with
the storylines. Was there anything about it that you felt, for a wrestling
fan, broke the narrative unnecessarily, you know, bro bro because to me,
I mean, there's certain things that just came across as orchestrated. And
that's obviously part of reality TV, probably more so than most reality TV fans
want to be told they're realized, they'd kind of like, you know,
ignorance is bliss. I don't need to know that scene with Stage and I'm
kind of enjoying it. But you know, in Italia, finding out that
you wasn't gonna be on WrestleMania, for instance, the weekend over WrestleMania,
you know, for any WWW fan, they could tell that was you know,
pretty orchestrated. It might have been a re enactment of something six weeks
earlier, but it was certainly white. I mean, John, you were
there. Did anybody ever find out they were not going to be on WrestleMania's
line up the weekend of WrestleMania? No? Absolutely not. I mean,
and here's the thing too, is you know, especially with WrestleMania, there's
so much build around almost every single match. I mean, there was a
writer assigned to every match on the card. So you knew leading up to
WrestleMania for sure, WrestleMania at least that you know whether you'd be on the
card or not. Now, what reality TV is is famous for is the
re enactment. You know, there's been reality TV shows that I've worked on
where they'll go back three four weeks in the past and kind of say,
hey, you know, remember when this happened. We didn't quite you know,
get really a reaction out of that, or you weren't around. So
we'd like to put you guys, you know, sit you down at lunch
and and how do you guys talk about what's something that happened three weeks ago?
So the thing with Natty, and it's a guess, but it's an
educated guest, would be that that was something that they created for the show.
And again trying to come up with, uh, distinguishing who's who on
the show, you know, and and like with the Bella's and uh,
the what the other girls, the funk what are they called funkadactobacto, you
know, doing the whole you know, go get me champagne. You know,
we're gonna show that we're the veterans here, the rookies, and then
you've got Natalia who's kind of on the outs. You know, that's that's
all E right there, trying to give everybody a character and sort of a
place and on the show. So a lot of that stuff. Again,
with any reality TV show, whether it's about wrestling or not, it's going
to be very very, very very produced. It was one thing that I
learned, uh, you know, with my days at MTV was that,
you know, networks are very firm on look, we're not going to put
anything on TV that we can't control, especially the outcome. So you know,
they're not just gonna blindly follow around these girls ros and just kind of
hope something happens. They're going to make sure something happens, and if it
doesn't or if it doesn't come out the way that they want, they're going
to go back. And you know, with the Natalia, you know,
being told that she won't be on WrestleMania, that's a great example of going
back and going all right, we need something for her in relation to WrestleMania
because she doesn't have a match, she doesn't have a story now, is
there? And don't laugh when I asked this question because it might sound naive
and I know that, but is there any regard for integrity on reality TV?
Tow in the reenactments not completely change how they want the first time?
How much it's sense of we want things to feel real and be real and
have some integrity to what we're portraying is really happening. Or are some of
the quote reality stars these regular ordinary people being filmed in a documentary type way.
Are some of them literally being like just acting out scenes that are where
they sit down and say, all right, you're gonna be really mad at
me, and I'm going to be really mad at you, and we're going
to uh fake it, and then when they all cut, everybody shakes hamps
like actors. It's both, I mean it really it really depends on what
the uh the principle or I don't know, I guess the reality stars John,
we just lost your mic almost John? Yeah? Can you hear me?
Now? You're back? Yep, Okay, you know it's it's so
it's both, you know, they want to keep to the integrity of what
it is that they're trying to produce, but also too they h you could
you could have you know, the Bellas kind of sit there and say,
hey, we want to we want to orchestrate this sort of feud or story
with you know, Natalia or another girl on there, so you know,
they can get together and and produce that themselves and then put it on screen,
you know, and that's probably the smart way to do it. I
mean, you have an opportunity to be seen and make something out of yourself
and make a celebrity out of yourself. A lot of people tease they have
that. I invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or comments.
That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. That's Wade
Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You
can follow us on Twitter at pwtorch and follow me at the Wade Keller.
That's at Pwtorch and at the Wade Keller. And so when they call it
unscripted television, there aren't there's necessarily scripts, but there's an orchestration and a
production and a pre planning that that actually shares a lot in common in that
sense with professional wrestling. Wrestling is more orchestrated than reality TV. Most of
the time because reality TV will film just incidental things that happen and feature them
on the show. But reality TV has a lot of production, a lot
of orchestration, and basically an I on ratings in an ion conflict, and
an I on plotlines, and they will do what it takes to orchestrate.
Yeah. They You know, it's similar again to w where Vince Vince knows
what the wrestling fan base wants, and I know that that's sort of a
joke at this point, but you know, he knows what they what they
want, so he's gonna orchestrate a show around that. Television networks know what
their audience wants out of a reality TV show, and they're going to orchestrate
their show after that, and they're going to produce whatever they feel the audience
is going to want to see. And to be perfectly honest, I don't
think that they want to see the wrestling aspect of the show, which I
know that there's been a lot of discussion about did they did they book Daniel
Bryan versus John Cena for SummerSlam for the show, And I think that there's
two ways of looking at that, and one of them is, yeah,
they might have because you know, Vince will try anyway to get eyeballs on
his product. So if he can get the the outside audience to kind of
see what he has his show, he'll do that. But then on the
other end, I don't think E cares that much about John Cena versus Daniel
Bryant, So I don't think that that's E's intention. So, you know,
it definitely could be Vince pushing for that and going, hey, we
have the Bellas. Okay, well, we know Sena and Brian are are
are dating these girls. I know that they'll be on there. Maybe that's
the match that we do. But on the other hand, you know,
I don't think Vince can go to E and say this is what we plan
on doing, because I don't think that they would care what their wrestler or
their Summer Slam main event is. Looking at the John Cena dating one of
the Bellas and Daniel Bryan dating one of the Bellas. John Cena, hustle,
loyalty, respect, We've got kids who follow him. He's, you
know, a role model, as much of a role model as Top baby
Face has been in a very long time, especially you know, having gone
through the attitude era. Probably going back to Bob Backland, Sena is the
one who was most conscious of that, probably more so than Olk Coogan.
Doesn't do you think it hurts his image at all that he's on their dating
one of the Bellows who are caddy and territorial and kind of nasty. Is
there any kind of conflict in the narrative there? It's not like John Cena's
playing somebody other than John Cena. John Cena sells his wrestling character two fans
who know that it's orchestrated as this is who I am. I do stand
for these things. Does that cause any issues? Do you think? Yeah?
You know, I think I think slightly. I think that he's still
going to play the same role on television. I'm sure he's going to be
very cautious of the way he's portrayed in that show. And I think he
did a good job of sticking to the John Cena character in the first episode.
But you know, I do see you know, I've always been you
know, Cafe is non existent anymore. But you know, even with the
Twitter thing that I've discussed with you on the show before, as I always
spelt, if you're gonna be your character on Twitter. You should play your
character on Twitter. Otherwise, you know, use your personal name and do
as you wish on there. But I think it takes away from the fun
of the product and and uh, sort of allowing yourself to be put in
that world of going you know what, Listen. I know it's scripted,
i know it's choreographed, but I'm going to allow myself to believe what's happening.
And that's that's the fun of watching it. H And I think you
take away some of that when you have John Cena, the character dating.
Yeah, I can't remember what bella he dates, but one of the bellas
that that are healed, uh, and that do act like that. But
you know, also too, I think it could add to the appeal of
John, where you know, he sees the best in somebody and you know,
maybe in the end they might think he's gonna get screwed over, but
good old John Cina, you know, he just wants to think that there's
good in everybody, right yep. And would you feel from your experience behind
the sceness not that you were there when there was a reality show on eve
but is it is it the type of thing that writers would bring up and
John Cina would bring up to Vince Kmahn, Hey, you know, should
we be trying to coordinate what we see on the show to the product or
would Vince look at him like your crazy? He is for women who like
the Housewives shows, and this is for you know, a very wide range
of age groups who watched ww programming, but predominantly men. Yeah, I
think both. I think I think more so Vince than than the writers would
bring the show to the table in regards of you know, hey, I
have I have an opportunity here too, especially maybe even Stephanie. I have
an opportunity here to pick up that female audience on our show. Let's take
advantage of that. And I don't know, maybe they will, maybe they
won't. Maybe Vince is opposed to you never know what's Vince. I mean,
there's time that you would feel he's going to be completely for something and
he's not. But he usually is when it comes to something, and then
on this occasion he's not, and vice versa. So my guests would be
that he would want to try to jump all over that and bring this story
onto w w ETV, and I guess we'd probably find that out you know,
fairly soon now that the first episode has aired, I don't know.
I don't recall that didn't air this week after Raw or did it, dare
Initially they actually had a They did the live airing and then a replay that
night one and then another airing Raw after Raw on Monday as a one time
only and collectively did about three and a half million viewers. So there's a
lot of people, including now because of the Monday that replay, a lot
of WWE fans who watched that program. So it becomes the world's collided.
It's not like a completely separate you know, separate h They're not traveling on
separate planes. They introduced the raw ims to that reality show, right,
So I think that going forward, if if it was going to happen,
I think it's going to happen, uh fairless zoona if not, you know
this coming week, yeah, yep. Yeah. So it's it's it's interesting
watching it as a you know, from from my position as a wrestling fan.
I'm trying to put myself in the seat of somebody who had never seen
the product before. Would this be interesting to them or or not? And
I'm still not sure However, I do know on our pwtorch dot com poll
we put up among the people who went out of their way to watch that
show and we're interested in it, and the half the people who vote it
said, I had no interest in it. I didn't watch it, so
they're not even counted in the ratings. But among Torch readers, and I
think this is promising for the show, about half of them, a little
under half said yeah, it's interested in it, and those who watched it,
by a twenty to one margin said they liked it enough that they're going
to watch it again. And I could have easily seen it flipped around.
I mean, I don't think that was a given that, you know,
people who are interested would watch the first show and want to see it again.
So I'm predicting this won't be an XFL type situation where they got week
one ratings that are promising and then they just bomb afterwards. I'm kind of
thinking they might. I think wrestling fans are interested in seeing this, and
it's an interesting look behind the scenes at WrestleMania, and just getting a chance
to see John Cena in a different role I think is of interesting, and
obviously it's about women, and that's going to be interesting to a lot of
the audience that wishes there were more of the diva's on TV. So I
think it has a chance to actually work on a number of levels with a
number of different audiences. I agree. I think I think it can't too
because I think they're pulling different audiences. I think they're pulling uh, maybe
not the majority of wrestling fans, but those that are interested in something in
this vein as well as you know, the reality TV junkies. I believe
that they they're on after the Kardashians. Yep, though you know that's a
great legion for them. So I think it has a chance. You know,
I guess we'll see reality TV is it definitely not a sure thing.
There's been lots of shows that weren't expected to be hits that were, and
and shows that we're expected to be in work, So we'll see how it
turns out. Let's let's shift gears. I do want to get the phone
number out if you're just joining us. John Piermarini is our guest. He
is a been a guest on number of times in the past on the PW
Towards Live Test and He is an x WWE creative team member uh in two
thousand and nine and two thousand and ten for nearly two years, and he
is kind enough to join us on a summer regular basis and give his insights,
observations, and anecdotes from behind the scenes. We I want to shift
gears to current day happenings in a couple of minutes, but I also want
to go to calls because weve got some people on hold. So if you
want to join people who are in line to call and ask questions and comment,
the number to call is six four six seven two one ninety two eight.
That is six four six seven two one nine eight two eight. Quick
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An XT creative team member from the early two thousands, told some anecdotes
about innssect Man's quirks, including the fact that ten years ago vinsect Man did
not know what a burrito was and did not think anybody else would know what
a barrito was when it was brought up at a creative meeting that they incorporated
burrito into a storyline with Eddie Guerrero and Big Show, which was just amazing.
And you have to hear Dan adding and tell the story. He did
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The top story tomorrow might be Kurt Angel arrested again for DUI. Full
details right now at pwtorch dot com if you want to get details on that
and see the monk shot. We got some people on hold, John,
so why don't we shift to some phone calls and then after that we're going
to talk Restomania twenty nine by rate was Rock worth it? And also Restomania
thirty What can possibly be done to get over a million buys? Again?
Since they barely roll over a million buys with Rock, Sina and Lesner,
Triple H, an Undertaker and another streak match, can they do anything to
get over a million buys for Wrestomania thirty and we'll also talk about SummerSlam Hype
with John. In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately
the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back,
we'll be taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early history.
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we
go eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out exclusively for p W tort VIP members. Let's first,
though, go to phone calls and begin with area code eight six two.
It's ex two. Please stay your name and where you're from? Kiss
from North New Jersey, Kylin. What have you got for us? Okay?
I have two questions. Number number one, John, is there a
particular idea that you know this WWE is using today that that you pissed when
you were on the Creative t that you were told we don't do that kind
of thing anymore. And number two times question what was that way? I
said, Yeah, go ahead, right to question two and we'll tackle both
of them at once. And and question number two, how do you feel
the newly re restructured creative se has hast help the brother in terms of we're
starting to see more actual ring ring ring work in some of the shows and
ving Villetta being used again and different things like that. Sure. Great,
kind of appreciate the topics, Yeah, John, And I'll put a spin
on Kyland's first question two. Not only your ideas, but you know,
is you see anything that you suggest that was turned down when you were there?
But are you seeing the product? Are you seeing things being pitched and
accepted by Vince McMahon now that had you pitched them just a few years ago,
twenty twenty ten, that he would have said, no, we don't
do that. So a little bit of a different spin on Kylan's question too.
Yeah, you know, I think there's a I think there's a change
in philosophy as a whole there, But you know, I don't think that
there's a lot being done differently as far as pitching, I think that's still
the same. One thing that I do think uh is different is uh foupfold
one. I think that when I was there, you know, we were
we were on the decline. But you know, Vince was still happy in
certain regards for things. And I think that you know, you've seen his
frustration since then with the news, you know, with Creative and Brian Gawortz
and and all that with with the ratings and the buy rates and then you
know, getting frustrated with him and sending him home. So I think he's
more accepting of things now. I also think that with Triple H more involved,
because you know, as we talked about, he was just sort of
taking that role when I was there, and I think now he's more entrenched
and probably sitting right there with Vince and helping make decisions and probably running the
show when Vince is not. So I think that, you know, he
also has a little bit of a different philosophy than Vince does on what kind
of product he wants to put out there. But you know, another thing
too is that Vince has always been receptive to ideas. You know, he
wants to hear everything that you have to pitch, as long as it's well
thought out. And you know, I remember times when we had a meeting
and he kind of grew frustrated with Creative and started saying, look, we
need different ideas, we need fresh ideas we need to do things different.
And you know, I remember one guy pitch why don't we and that guy's
still there. He pitched, why don't we bring managers back? And he
was open to it, and you know, the only concern that Vince had
was I want managers that want to get the talent over and not themselves over.
But if we could find that, then yeah, let's let's incorporate managers
again. And I think that that was a philosophy that I'm getting here that
maybe Byan didn't want to do, so it didn't go through because everything had
to kind of go through Brian before it got to Vince. You know,
I used to pitch, you know, we're doing Sina versus Batista three or
four months in a row with no reason given given to why we're we're continuing
with the feud. I mean, I think Sina was champion, or Sina
won the title, and then Sina defended at three times against Batsa, but
he was defeating him every time. And I remember going, you know,
and the buy rates were going down each month that we were doing that,
and I remember saying, we're not even giving them a reason to want to
see Batista to have another shot. You know, why don't we switch it
up and have different guys in that role? You know, we build up
a guy, have them you know, uh go against Sina, and yeah,
obviously we can't always have those guys win, and there's gonna be you
know, the audience that goes. Man, you know, Miss isn't gonna
beat Sina. But if every once in a while we had a guy that
we believed in that we could have, say Miss defeats Sina and win the
WWW title. Now people start going, oh, man, I gotta start
tuning into it. I know it's a you know, Wade Barrett that has
a title shot, But man, Miss beats Sina, you know, six
months ago, So who knows what can happen? And I think a lot
of a lot of the stuff that he liked, including that one, because
I remember him just saying right after that, he said, why aren't we
doing that? Then let's start doing it. But then it never happened.
And you know, I could go and I could pitch it and put it
together and we give it to Brian and then it just disappears, and the
same thing happens again and again. So I think a lot of it probably
has to do with that filter being gone and Vince probably hearing more ideas or
at least whoever it is that's in Brian's position now being more receptive to the
outside ideas and then taking them to Vince, Because you could pitch to Vince
and then like in this case, say with the managers and putting other guys
in the main event, you could pitch that to Vents and he'll like it.
He'll go great, but he's gonna forget that you said it. So
if you don't bring it to him again in a scripted form for the next
show, he doesn't even remember that you said it, So if it never
gets back to him again, it's not going to happen. So you could
go and say, great, let's put you know, let's put Hayman with
Curtis Axel uh okay, But then if Brian gets that and doesn't want to
do it, it's not going to happen, even though Vince might have been
receptive to it. That's a right. It's good advice for new creative team
members to be more persistent and not not just take it personally when he ignores
them afterwards. Persistence can help. Yeah, you know, too. And
here's the thing too. You know, we had guys on creative that would
pitch ideas on a weekly basis in the production meetings right to Vince, and
he would hate nine out of ten of them. But if he liked that
one, that's all that mattered, you know. So if you're if you're,
if you're oh for eight, he's still gonna be He's still going to
be looked for your idea. He might roll your eyes when you raise your
hand and pitch something, but as soon as you give him something that he
likes, you know, you you've reset the you've set the clock, so
to say, and now you're on his good side and you know you have
a few swings and misses to go. But uh, you know again,
you know a lot of people always, you know, tweet me or ask
me, know what advice can you give to try to get a job there,
And that's sort of you can't really give advice to that. But you
know, for people that are new that are there, it's very intimidating,
especially to pitch to Vince, because you don't want to say something that he's
gonna hate. My advice would be have something well thought out and he'll be
receptive. And just because the guy in the position above you doesn't like your
idea doesn't mean the vincil. There's been plenty of times that Brian hated something
that I pitched, but I felt strongly about it, so I pitched it
in front of vents and Brian rolls his eyes and it and it takes place.
And how about the length of matches, That's something Colin brought up.
We're seeing longer match It's part of that, you know, due to robbing
three hours. Part of it is they're just happened to be workers being pushed
now. Wrestlers are you know, superstars? Is their call being pushed now?
Who can go longer and have better matches? Daniel Bryan and the Shield
are just among many of them. Who who who are like that? What
was that like with vincect Man in terms of match length? I doubt that
was something the creative team had a lot to say so win, But do
you sense that a philosophy has changed or Vince's kind of utilizes people to their
strengths and right now he's got time to fill and wrestlers who can fill it.
I think I think you answered it with that you know, we had
guys that could work long matches. You know, when I was there,
we had Batista, and we had Sean and Jericho, we had Triple HH,
we had Sena. You know, we had good workers there and uh
and those people were given that opportunity to do two three segments and then we
had the other guys that he didn't feel warranted that much time inside the ring.
And I think now he knows he has to fill three hours. And
I think that you know, why put out And you think he's smart enough
to know why put out these longer man matches with the guys that can work.
If we're not utilizing them, you know, why just throw out a
match? If we're not going to push Daniel Bryan and Dean Ambrose, why
are we going to put them on TV for forty five minutes in the match.
So I think he's starting to go more towards all right, well,
we need to fill time on TV. The best way for us to do
it is in the ring. With that said, let's put let's push the
people that can actually do something inside the ring. And I think that that's
another reason why you see guys like RVD comeback, you know, and I
think that's another reason why you see a push of Christians. I think that
he can he can give Vince what he needs, and that's blocks of time
filled on his television show. You can support us on Patreon and get these
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torch vi IP and you can also upgrade two other tiers and receive even more
benefits through Patreon. All right, let's jump to another phone call and uh
go next to eighty five six eight five six. Thanks for holding. Please
state your name and where you're from. Oh many, this is welcome Jersey.
Hey, Well thanks for Colin. What have you got for John?
Hey? Oh? I was just well, who's a question actually about hoping
Kurt Angle? I went online to Dan saw he's, you know, arrested
again. Do you think they're gonna actually take this serious in CNA, or
are you just gonna trying to brush it under gum sixty saying she was upset
about the who x sixty Twitter controversy for the kids. You don't think she's
trying of being a hypo crip with Kurt Angle getting arrested with US two or
three times now for d WI, Yeah, I mean, it's it's a
point. I mean, if Dixie's going to say, you know, think
about the children when people say nasty things on you know, the hashtag asked
Dixie thing that in fact put out there that turned into fiasco. You know,
you do have to think, well, what about the kids who were
you know, out you know, being driven home from Grandma's house last night
when Kurt decided to once again get behind the wheel under the influence as he
was arrested for last night. I mean, yeah, it's a legitimate question.
I don't know will what Dixey Carter's gonna do. Kurt Angle is a
big part of TNA, and Dixie tries to be loyal the people even when
they have problems. We've seen that in the past. Part of it depends
on how, you know, what Kurt Angle says he's going to do about
it in the future. At this point, you know, it might be
time if TNA values him and they decide to keep him around, to get
him some sort of a chaperone, so those late nights, if he's that
valuable, get somebody who's in charge of the car keys, assuming he even
keeps his driver's license after this, John, how how do you think physic
man would handle it? A repeat d d U Y offender leaving a show
or at least the night of a show getting arrested. For you, why
if that happened multiple times? Where do you think that's some mad would come
down on that. You know, as much as it's a it's a business
decision, I think it's also a personal one. And I think Vince uh
Us, you know, everyone that works for him as an extension of his
family, and I think that in Kurt Angle's case, I think, you
know, just to kind of give a perspective on why I'm answering it this
way, I think if it was somebody that had done it the first time
that he sat down and they said, look I made a mistake, I
think you know it would be it would be brushed under the rug if I
think if he felt he had to make a statement, I think that he
would then make a statement with that person. But I think in Kurt Angle's
case, I mean, I don't think that this is it is stupidity,
but I think that this is deeper rooted than that with Kurt Angle, and
I think that he would notice that, and I think that he would want
to approach this from uh not Vince rict Mahn, your boss, but vincrict
Man, your your friend. And I think that he would want to sit
down with Kurt and see what needed to be done to fix this problem as
apposed to go on, Okay, what's the first thing I can do to
punish this guy? Yeah, it is. It's I think you're right.
You have to do it on an individual basis and understand their history, the
chances of it reoccurring you of course, and enter business into it. Is
this a pr nightmare waiting to happen? That has to factor in whether it's
fair or not it does. And then one on one, is this person
you know apologetic? Will they are? They? Without prompting and in a
mature way saying I know how I can make sure this doesn't happen again?
And or are they blowing it off and blaming the cop, you know,
I mean, it's just yeah, I think all that plays into it.
That's why I don't think you can have it just a flat policy where you'd
say, standing back, I know what Dick pe will do. I think
a lot of it depends on that. My hunches. Dixie won't fire Kurt
over this unless Kurt is just you know, says some awful things in response.
I think she'll try to work through it. But you know it to
see how what happens with the legal situation with Kurt. I mean, this
is, you know, a multiple time DUI offender isn't necessarily going to have
a choice in the matter either, you know, what happens to him,
So we'll see, it's gonna be tough for him to travel around if he
doesn't have a driver's license and know, I mean, he's gonna have to
have someone pick him up, take him to all the locations personal appearances.
I mean, it's gonna it's gonna be tough, absolutely, you know,
But if they value Kurt, and that is the only solution they if that's
the only way that they can see keeping them around, is that they make
sure that it doesn't happen again, then you got to pay somebody you know
to drive him around. I mean, you don't want to do it with
your whole team, But I mean and and I'm not saying Kurt as a
person deserves special treatment. I'm just being realistic. He's Kurt Angle right.
Olympic gold medalists may have enter Immerston storylines, a great worker still with a
history and TNA, And then I'm just saying TNA might be willing to spend
some money on somebody else. And in fact, I think it would be
fair, honestly to tell Kurt we are going to have a driver everywhere you
go when you're on the clock with us. You know, what you do
at home on your time, that's that's up to you. But if you
get arrested again, you know we will be done with you. But when
you're with us, we don't want on it on our We don't want to
answer to somebody getting killed because you got behind the wheel while you were coming
or going from one of our shows. So therefore, for you to stay
employed, we need you to take out of your paycheck the money it takes
for us to have a driver for you you know, and I think that'd
be a fair compromise. I agree, Yeah, all right, very good.
Our phone number here is six four six seven two one nine eight two
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MMA, so check us out MMA torch dot com. Let's now move to
er code eight O five. You're on What's Ax WWE writer John Piermarini eight
O five. Please state your name and where you're from. You know.
Five. The switchboard is being pokey, but I will tell you when I
see a red light come on and the switchboard gets unjammed, we'll be able
to listen to you. I'll give it a couple more seconds here as I
wait, still churning John while I wait for the switchboard to refresh itself.
Any thoughts on Wrestle Media twenty nine doing barely above one million buys in the
tally that WWE released yesterday. That surprised you that it's down? Uh,
you know a couple hundred thousand plus from Wrestle Media twenty eight. I don't
know if it surprises me. Uh, you know, I think that,
you know, the one thing that I think WW does is they do too
many things, too many times, and I think that there's not a sense
of I guess, urgency or to want to tune into something. I know,
you know, the Rock coming back, that's great, you know,
but I think also two you can look, you know, I've seen it
last year. There's not really a lot of builds around this year as far
as the story to make me care about being the same match that I spent
sixty dollars on last week, and then you look at the card and you
go, you know, nothing really like jumps out as like, oh my
god, I need to see this. So I don't know if they were
expecting it to match. I mean, I think in Vince's ice is always
expecting to beat the previous year. But you know, I think that it
could have done just as well if they told the proper story. And I
think that they had the story. I just think that they waited till eight
weeks before Wrestling Mania to tell it, you know, because they had the
story was Seena saying, this year sucked ever since I lost to the Rock,
and now I have a chance to to sort of rewrite all of that
and make all of that disappear. But he really didn't have that bad of
a year. But I think that would have been a great story if,
for you know, the eight months leading to to WrestleMania, you have John
Sena have the worst year of his career, and and then now you can
tell the story of I'm remotivated. This is you know, this is it
though, this is my last chance. If I don't beat the Rock,
you know, I'm I can't be one of the greatest of all time,
and that's why I got into this, or that's why everybody gets into this.
And I think you tell more of a story of you know, I
want to see the matter, see what's gonna happen. Either he's gonna win
the ww title after a year, you know, that's that's Scena fans not
not. Everyone's gonna want to be excited about John seen Is winning the title.
But then on the other hand, you know, you have the fans
that go, man, maybe this is it for Scena, I'm gonna tune
in. I just don't think it telling story was told leading up to that
match, and I don't think that there was a very compelling card below it
to get people who didn't want to see at a second time to really care
to tune into WrestleMania. But you know, it's WrestleMania, and you're going
to get close to a million bias no matter what. Searching for more great
pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason Powell host him to three weekly Pro
Wrestling Boom podcast. Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis for
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot Net, along with other pro wrestling
media members. Plus the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable
names in the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe an I tune in, Stitcher,
Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at pwboom
dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot com. Does this incriminate a
little bit? Triple H and Orcmpunk brock Lessner's first WrestleMania and many many years
because he showed up a month after US so many of last year, Uh,
Triple H against brock Lessner and then Undertaker against cm Punk. Those two,
I mean, those are the big three matches on that show. They
share credit and blame. You give him credit for breaking a million buys,
but it dropped and that it was a different, you know, different opponents
Undertaker and uh Brock. You know, Triple H maybe wasn't the best opponents
brock Lessner as as a guy who maybe some fans have moved on from any
any thoughts on those two undercard matches. Yeah, I mean, if you're
looking for someone, yeah, you're never gonna blame the person that that you
felt was the right person for something. So you know, maybe maybe the
blame is put on CM Punk, you know, man, you know Undertaker
usually Jaws, that we put him with Punk, and you know, I
knew that wouldn't work, and I told you, And they're going to ignore
the fact that, you know, they didn't make a compelling story for Sina
Rock. And I think that I think that Lessner had a lot of appeal
coming back to WWE, but I think that they just immediately turned him into
the wrestler brock Lessener and not the UFC fighter brock Lessener. And I mean,
I think what the month after they brought Lessner back, he lost to
John Cena. So I mean, you tore down this monster and and really
your investment, you know, you bring in this guy, I think I
can't remember the timeline is off, but I know at one point didn't triple
h you know, talk him down, almost tearing apart in any accomplishments that
he had in UFC. You know, So you stripped this guy down,
and then you expect him to be this this paper view juggernaut that he could
be and he has proven to be, but you strip all that away and
then you wonder why nobody cares to see him. And another thing too is
you know the the UFC star brock Lessner was bigger than the w w E
superstar brock Lessener. Now, I know that there was that appeal of him,
this fake wrestler come into UFC and fight, and I know that that's
why people tuned in. But I think after a while that he wasn't a
WWE guy anymore. He was just this monster that after he'd win a match,
he's getting the guy's face, he'd spit in the camera. I mean
like literally, this guy wasn't human. And I think that that's what his
appeal was in UFC. After the w w E star war off, I
think they needed to bring that into WWE, and instead they turned him back
into the same brock Lessener that was there before. And you know that's again
I may be wrong here, but I don't think he was a huge draw
as a WWE superstar before he went to to USC, and they turned him
back into that guy. That's absolutely one of the issues with brock all along
is how do you how do you market him? You know, do you
try to integrate him and put him back back in the mainstream with WWE and
or do you use him in that way and kind of not draw attention to
the fact that he's something different, or do you try to keep him quote
schell and and selective and they've kind of been, you know, sort of
in between. It depends on the week you tune in or the program that
he's been in. And and also does he wrestle you know, how does
he incorporate the USC style but also do what he was great at as a
WWE performer before that. And Yeah, I mean it's I think it's disappointing.
I think if you would have said two years ago, brock Lessner is
going to be in one of the top two or three matches at WrestleMania,
back when it just seemed like, you know, he was he would heavier
champion. Who's gonna believe that would happen? If you would have said three
years ago, they're gonna do that, and the Rock is going to be
on the show again, this is before WrestleMania twenty eight Rock came came in
or twenty seven. I guess you'd have to go to So if it's before
that and you said Brock and Rock are both gonna be on Mania, I
think you'd be disappointed if if it barely did one million especially with Brock's first
So I think no, wait, I think that WWE is content with thinking
Rock is a major star and and brock Lessner is a huge MMA star slash
pay per view box office star, and I think that they feel like that's
all they need. Okay, let's bring the Rock in. He could sit
in a chair in the middle of the ring and it doesn't matter. He's
gonna draw. I think that they think that the appeal of brock Lessner,
he could come in. We can have him lose to Sina, we can
have him, you know, we do whatever he wants to do. He
could walk around backstage and crack jokes. Those people will still want to see
brock Lessner. And that's that's not true, you know. I think that
people what appealed to the fans for the Rock. I think that they wanted
to see that when he came back, and I don't know if they necessarily
did. And I think with Brock, they wanted to see that UFC star
come back into you into WWE, and they didn't, and I think that
they lost their appeal. All right, let's stop, go back to the
full night, because I believe we did. Uh the switchboard seemed to work
itself out. Let me try again up butture did so eight oh five.
Sorry about that. Please stay your name and where you're from? Eight o
five. You are live on the show. Eight zero five. All of
that, all of that trouble, and now you've gone away, all right,
eight o five. We'll hang up on you. If I see your
number, come back on. We'll try you one more time. Let's now
go to A four two three next I do want to know? Note that
we'll be going off the livecast in a couple of minutes and doing a VIP
after show for a few minutes and talking about Summer Slam and looking ahead to
Rusomnia thirty with John. If you have a question that you want to ask
and we don't get to it on the live show where you just can't call
in, you can send us an email right now at Pwtorch Livecast at gmail
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you can send to for any show. So if you want to send an
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just put the name of the host or the show on the subject line
so the host knows to grab it. Also, we have book next week's
guest. It is a return appearance, the second appearance ever of Hardcore Bob
Holly. He'll be on the show next week. He was a great guest.
A little over a month ago we had him on to talk about his
book, which I really recommend, just the chapter on Brawl for All and
what if he asked, go that was is enough? And Bob at one
point in the book just run over a list of wrestlers during his time and
why they why they got fired, or why they didn't get a push,
like behind the scenes reasons it was. It was pretty interesting, interesting insight
from somebody kind of on the outside of the cool kids circle looking in,
but was there for a really long time and except for one match against the
man we've been talking about, brock Lesner never got that headline world title match
on pay per view during his whole tenure. Interesting perspective from from a non
WWE published book. It did not get filtered through WWE. He's not in
wrestling now, doesn't aspire to be, and he's a great guest for that
reason. So he'll be on again next week. If you did not hear
that original interview, I encourage you to go to the archives at PW sporchlivecats
dot com and and look it up. Or if you're a VIP member,
he was a do our drop making you and click on people you torch live
test interviews and look it up even quicker that way. But I'm looking forward
to having him on a second time. He'd promised you'd come on again.
We promised we'd invite him again, and next week is when that happens.
So I hope you can join us then if you can start sending your questions
in now, and I encourage you in the meantime to buy his book and
read it and ask some questions related to his book. I think when you
read it like I did, you'll have a lot of a lot of questions
coming out of the book that you'll want him to expand on. So excited
to when out set All right, let's go now to Eric code four two
three has promised four two three please state your name and where you're from Hey,
wait and see Hey, and thanks for Colin. What have you got
for us? Hey? So I understood a few weeks ago that it was
the USA network decision to have the McMahon's own TV. So much. Is
there any way we can write usay to tell to get them off of TV?
John John talked to talk to me about any and two, about Vince's
and Stephanie interplay for that matter, but especially Vincent Stephanie and their desire to
be on television and how much your experience was that USA Network got involved in
it. I honestly, you know, unless they're really good at convincing otherwise,
they don't have a desire to be on TV as much as you think
that they do. I mean, I remember Vince used to refuse to be
put on TV. There was a time when he wasn't on for probably about
a year, and we would pitch ideas to try to bring them back.
Nope, nope, don't want to be on TV. Find a way to
do something without me. I don't want to be on. Don't want to
be on. Stephanie was the same way, and he would always say,
if there's if there's a reason why I need to be on TV. You
can put me on until then I don't want to be on TV. And
uh but you know, I you can see that the trend of ratings when
McMahon's go on, USA Network notices death and you know, if they if
they come and they say, hey, we want the McMahons on, give
us a story with the McMahons and a power struggle or you know whatever,
it is just a request. That's what they're going to give them. So,
you know, unless there's another idea that they could throw at USA,
which you know, that's that's the bad part is those other alternative stories aren't
pitched. You know, there's USA doesn't call and go, hey, you
know, let's get the McMahon's back on. Let's do a power struggle.
Uh. They don't come back and go, hey, you know what instead
of doing that again, why don't we try this? Why don't we do
this with Sena or this with this guy or you know, whatever it may
be. It's just nobody, nobody has that other idea to do. So
you're you're you're gonna be stuck with what USA Network wants and until you can
give them an alternative option, that's what you're gonna get. But you can't
blame the McMahon's. I mean, you know, aside from Triple H.
I'm sure he loves being on TV and being a focal point of the show.
But I mean, who wouldn't in his position. Vince and Stephanie do
not actively try to find ways to get on TV. If anything, is
the exact opposite. Interesting. Yeah, thanks for downloading today's show. Take
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vi ip. Yeah, you think that they're useful on TV at this point?
To Senior opinion. M Yeah, I mean, you know, I
think that they are, but I feel like again going back doing too many
things too many times. I mean, how many times are we going to
see the family feud with the power struggle between the McMahons. I think that
they need to find a way to freshen it up, you know. I
mean, I remember I pitched a story one time, uh that I know
that got vetoed and I don't know the exact person who vetoed it, but
the story was good, but they didn't want to be portrayed in that light.
Was you know, Stephanie may be cheating on Triple H, and she
may have somebody else who may kind of be taking his spot. And you
know, the while you go through this six week story of who who might
it be? You know, you're you're you're tuning in to see, at
any time can this guy get revealed? And and and once that person is
what does that mean? I mean, Triple H has kids with Stephanie,
what could happen? I'm not saying that that's the best idea, but it's
an alternative to something that is the same thing that they do with the McMahons.
Every single time they're put on TV. So I think they're an asset,
but I think you need to find different ways to utilize them. Yeah.
Yeah, And part of it too is just I don't know how self
aware Stephanie is of how she comes across on TV. And I think that's
part of even what Ian's getting at too. And if Vincent Man as as
the leader of the company, do you really want the leader of the company,
the guy who you're essentially paying money to to support the product, to
come across like he does where you just don't know one program to the other,
whether he's representing you know, himself at his company in a positive way
or he's this erratic, heelish, ugly person at times. I agree,
And you know a lot of things too. Is you know, again,
going back to the John Cena fan base, I think those kids are young
enough to want to believe what's going on. And maybe you know, when
Vincent Mann says something and like this guy walks around like he owns the joint,
you know, you want to cheer for Sina, but I think as
a kid, you you might want to you might question, oh, is
this guy really what he says? He is? He comes out on TV
and hugs and kisses babies, and but yeah, Vince a man says,
he walks around like he's an arrogant prick, you know. So I think
that I think that there's times that they go out there and they say things
off the cuff that I think even seconds after they say it, they go,
I wonder, I wonder if that was the right thing to do.
Well, I'm here, so let's just continue it, you know, let's
talk about how we want to see Sina versus Brian and then they just poof,
you know, disappear out of nowhere. God, that would make my
life easier. I don't understand the logic behind that. From a character standpoint,
you know, or a storytelling standpoint, you would want the hottest guy
in your company and the face of your company to just disappear, and then
what would you have, you know, because he never built to anything with
Vince being irritated with Sina before that, and on top that, wouldn't it
make sense that if if Vince Wickman is that concerned and he wants what's that
guy's name the GM to be sort of his puppet and put the right guys
in the position don't you think Vince would go on screen and hand pick a
guy like he did with The Rock as a corporate champion, go out there
and go, look, this is the guy you should have put in the
match. And maybe we should put that guy in the match. So why
don't you book him versus Daniel Bryan in a in a lumberjack match. I'll
choose the lumberjacks. And on top of that, it's you know, it's
no DQ and this and that where you know he's going to stack the deck
against Daniel Bryan to put his guy in there. And I just think that,
you know, I'm not a big fan of burying a guy to get
a guy over. I don't know the appeal in in trying to run down
Daniel Bryan and and and go hey, let me let me get on your
level to talk to you here and bend over. I don't know how that's
getting slaty over. Yeah, exactly, I agree with that a lot.
All right, let's let's take maybe one one more call, maybe two before
we wrap up the three portions. Joe John, can you stick around for
ten to two more minutes? Uh? And uh, do some BF you
after show? After we take another call. I'm good till about four o'clock
my time, so whatever you need. So it sounds good. Great,
all right, so let's let's jump in and give Ato five another chance.
Eight O five are you uh? Let's switchboards turning there? It is eight'll
five? Are you there this time? Hey? Wait, that was me
that called the first time. Yep. What's your mil from California? Great?
Yeah, Michael, what have you got for John? Today? Can
Don talked about Dolph Ziegler and his lack of director right now and how it
seems like they didn't really have a story for him when he turned and face
John, did you catch that? I don't know the question though, Michael.
Michael, go ahead and ask the question again because I didn't quite get
it either. Yeah. Can John talk about how the w W turns dollh
Ziggler's face and they don't don't seem to have a direction for him before they
turn the place? Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah, I got you
there? Sorry about that, Yeah, I mean it's it's not surprising.
I honestly don't know if if w W WE H or or a couple of
people in the decision making process or that high on Ziggler, and I think
I felt, or I think that they felt like, you know what he's
good for as better suited as a baby face. And because here's the way
you got to think of it, too, When a guy doesn't have a
story, it's it's not by mistake, it's because they didn't come up with
a story for him. They had, whether it's del Rio or whether it's
Lessner or Punk or whoever else. If they're focused on giving the stories too,
and they're gonna think of those guys first, and then they're not worried
about Ziggler because it's not hard to watch the show and see who they're getting
behind or who they care about. I think Ziggler right now is just a
face out there doing this thing along with the miss along with the fifteen other
guys that they have doing stuff. And I don't think that they said,
oh shoot, we turned them face without a story. I think they said,
let's turn him face. He's better utilized that way, and now let's
get back to focusing on the guys that we want to focus on. So
you know, when you see this happen, it's not because they last second
they said, man, we should turn him face and then when raw had
the production meeting, they went, oh, no, what do we do
with them? I think it was let's turn him face, He'll do what
he does, and now let's focus on everybody. Yes, I think he's
more of just a forgotten guy. Now, all right, very good.
I appreciate it. Yeah, I also those guys. I just don't think
you should turn somebody and waste that turn unless you're ready to really seize that
more. And that's one of the things I said on this show and multiple
times when people called up and said Dell's being cheered, turn up. Del's
being cheered, turn up. And I'm like, if vinciment Man isn't excited
about him as him as a baby face, don't waste his turn just because
fans are cheering him. If it's gonna get lost in the mix. And
that's what I feel's happened here. It just it got lost in the mix.
Because when you turn somebody and it doesn't work, and then you turn
them back, it just starts watering itself down. I think a turn should
spark business and spark interest in the character. And what dal felt. Granted,
the concussion hurt, but I think it actually diminished interest in him.
So well, you know, let me add something to wait, as you
know, wasting a turn, as I agree with you one hundred and ten
percent, So let me just say that first. Yeah, yeah, I
don't think that. I don't think in their eyes the turn was wasted because
the turn was for del Rio. The focus was on del Rio. There
was a lot of times when you know, there was a tough decision to
go all right, look we have Orton taken on. Let's say Daniel Bryant.
Okay, well, we don't want Daniel Bryan to lose. But who
are we getting over here? Okay, we're getting over Orton. Then we
need to focus on what we're trying to do in this in this math,
in this story, in this scenario. And I remember that was that was
big with d X versus h D Bossi and Cody Rose when they had that
story, And I mean, I thought this was going to be the opportunity
that we could really push uh Dbasi and Rose and get them over on DX.
But they had more plans for DX. So what felt like you're building
these two guys and you kind of cut the legs out from under them.
It wasn't seen that way, it was it doesn't matter. We're focusing on
Dx right now. So I think with the del Rio story, it was
we're not wasting a Dolf Ziggler turn. We're turning del Rio purposely, and
we're using Ziggler because not that zigglers on the outs, but we're not worried
about him right now. We're worried about del Rio. We need to turn
them heal. This is how we're going to do it. So everyone's looking
at it, you know, from a from all the Dolf Ziggler fan perspective
is it was wasted, but it wasn't because it was used to push or
get over or further a story or a character of someone that they did want
to utilize exactly. And I think there is impatience among fans where they see
something not happening right away and they think, oh, the guys get buried.
Even like the Shield, you know, people are like, oh my
god, the Shield are so hot. Now they're cooled down, and it's
like, you know, Vince rotates people in and out, and I think
Vince thinks that, and he's right a lot of the time that he can
get somebody hot again when he decides to Yeah. You know, he's been
right and he's been wrong. He's been right on Mark Henry multiple times,
but he's been wrong too, And I think I think Jack Swagger was a
perfect example of this. Yeah, yep, need an extra dose of positivity
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one more phone call seven seven open, hold on hold a little bit and
then we'll I'll go to the b at the appter show. If you want
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dot com slash email. All right seven seven oh, thanks for holding.
Please state your name and where you're from. I waited serious, Hey,
Larry, goodar from you. What have you got for us? Hey?
Excellent? Yeah, John, and I knew you've covered this. Hey,
John, I think you, Larry hold on this sect. I think John,
we're getting a lot of wind on your mic at the moment. If
you can block that a little bit, that help or maybe it's with you,
Larry, either way, go go ahead, all right, no problem,
no, no, I'm in I'm inside cooking dinner. But what is
it? I know what got covered last time you were on the live cast,
So I apologize if it's kind of just retrenning old ground, But you
shared your thoughts on kind of how unsuccessful the miss Face turn has been,
and I guess I'm wondering. You know, now there's been a few months,
you know, and they shouldn't just flippingly turning back or anything like that.
It's kind of like what Wade was talking about. You don't want to
see them and you John, you don't want to flip people back too early.
But is it really just a matter of like the advice you would give
would be just kind of keep your head down and wait for them to,
you know, maybe turn and embraise the character that he can fully get behind.
Or would you actually have some recommendations on how he could best make this
space role work. That's a good question, and everybody's philosophy is different,
and uh, you know, with me, is I would try to go
again? You don't want to waste the turn, You don't want to go
back and forth. But you know, let's let's make the best of the
situation that we're in here and let's try to find a way to kind of
get you going into baby face. The problem is is that, you know,
Miss being a baby face is not the problem. It's that Miss is
playing the typical baby face role where a guy turns baby face and Vince just
assumes they all have to be the same guy. And I think Miss could
have worked essentially as the same character, but sort of changing his target to
the heels. You know, I think it would have worked both ways,
because, especially today, and this has been talked about a lot, a
lot of heels are are the are the fan favorites as far as other television
shows, you know, Tony Soprano, Dexter, Breaking Bad, the bad
guys are the good guys. And I think that you can act like a
heel as long as you're going after somebody that they hate more. So,
you know, and I've told him this so many times, you know that
I think he'd be a great baby face if they did it the right way.
And I think it would have had to have been so I think wait,
I think even we had something at one point where you would ask,
if you did turn John Cena, who could be the guy that could eventually
take his spot and I said, you know, it's done right. It
could have been the Miss, but he was. He was so hot as
a as a heel when he was clicking, and I think that he could
be the same way as as a baby face. I would just what I
would suggest is go back to the way that you were as a heel,
but let's start going after heels as opposed to baby faces. And I think
it would work. And part of me's just wondering with Miss if he's just
too old to be that character anymore too. I mean, I go through
Tuesday. I think what made it him seem like he'd get over the face
was how the attitude and the personality he exuded as a heel. But I'm
just wandering getting into his thirties now if he's just not kind of it's just
it just doesn't click with the audience and that type of character has to mature
into something entirely different, because I just don't know if I'm not I'm not
confident anymore because he's been so awful this year. I'm not confident anymore that
he has it in him to be kind of that cool baby face that just
two years ago we thought he could be. Yeah, you know, and
he could be one hundred percent right in that. And they do have a
vehicle for him to turn heel, and they do have a vehicle for him
to be a completely different heel. And that's with Rick Flair. You know,
he could he could turn into a cowardly heel that you know, he
doesn't have to be the cool heel, but he could be the guy that
you you could hate because he could get over on your baby faces being a
coward but finding a way to get over on them. And uh. And
I think that as beloved as Rick Flair is, I think there's the guy
right there that they could use to help help turn Miss if they wanted to.
But I still think, you know, I think right now where Miss
is at, I think he's got a little bit more time where he could
still kind of revert back to the old Miss get a baby face and it
could work. But I do agree with you. I mean, the time
is definitely running out for him to play, you know, the character that
he played as mister Money in the Bank and on the way to ww title
yeah, or just cool you know, the cool kid from you know in
quotes, but the cool kid from reality television in real world. You know,
at some point he's kind of got to grow up and figure out who
is he as a as a you know, full fledged adult character instead of
kind of the the you know, obnoxious, smartass, youthful character. Yeah,
Larry, Yeah, Well I was wondering if I give one more question
the Diva show. Yep, thanks. You know, one thing I thought
was interesting, I'll just clarify not that not that it necessarily needs to be
said, but I watched it on YouTube. I don't really plan on like
keeping up on the show, but I did want to check out the first
episode. Obviously, you take it with a grain of salt because it's reality
TV, so, you know, because this could have been staged or whatnot.
But I know one thing that was interesting was with the that new Diva
Eva Marie, where they had an issue where the new head of talent relations
told there to get her hair dyed blonde, and she ended up going to
the salon not feeling the blonde color and going like a deep dark red,
like she called a Rhianna red. And then they had her talk with the
head of talent relations and she goes, well, I'll let you get away
with it this time, but next time, you definitely have to do what
we say, you know, otherwise, you know, you have to tow
the line. She literally said the phrase toe the line and do what we
say, And to me, I kind of thought, you know, staged
or not. It just seems sort of weird that, you know, even
though she's new and maybe she's just young and just wanted to do what she
wanted to do. But it seems she explained herself even though she's you know,
new, doesn't really have a character, but it seems like she said,
this is more natural, this is something that feels more natural to do
and fit with my personality. And I'm kind of wondering, you know,
shouldn't WW be kind of embracing that to some to some extent that that,
uh, you know, to let a character be more of themselves and not
do something that would not fit that character. Larry, you're aren't you?
Yes? Yeah, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna have have John answered that
question the VP after shows, because our time with him is limited and I
do want to give vpers some exclusive content, so I appreciate the question.
We're going to play ourselves out of the live cast here and move into the
VP after show. We're gonna also John forecast Russomania thirty a little bit and
look at what maybe are the biggest chances to draw a million plus buys at
Russemania thirty. So on the other side of the music Vipers will join us
for continuation of this discussion. Thanks John. Anytime you're watching ww E Raw
or SmackDown or aw Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us to address or a question
for us. Wade Kellor Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Wade Keller Podcast at
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same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction.
Let us know what you think of what we're saying, and let us
know what you want us to talk about and ask us specific questions. Wade
Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. All right, we're now in the v
IP. You have to show a portion of the program. Yeah, interesting
question for Larry John I do you want to tackle that right away? The
question is should they embrace it or do we even think that that moment was
genuine? Is it kind of a two part question. I got that from
Larry and also just should Vincent man wants people to be themselves and play themselves?
Is it really is he? I think what I got from the second
part of the question was is it are they pushing too hard to make somebody
something that they're not comfortable being? Okay, So the first part is just
from the genuine Was that a real moment? Yeah? I'll put it this
way. If you watch a reality TV show, there's always very specific characters.
There's a bad boy, there's a bad girl. There's you know,
the dumb one or the naive one, or the one that you know is
not part of the group. You'll start seeing those characters develop. On the
show. They needed the bad girl. She was the one. Was it
a genuine moment? Absolutely? My guest is I don't want to say absolutely,
my guest is not okay, But what I think happened is that that
could have been an actual discussion where they wanted to turn her hair blonde and
she said, here's the way I feel about that, and then they said,
you know what, now that I think about it, why don't you
go get your hair red. We'll take a look at it. If it
looks good, we'll allow you to keep it. If it doesn't, you're
going blonde. And that was the deal that they made. But because it's
television, you're going to present it in a way that causes drama to get
people to want to tune in, and that was that was a hook for
one of the segments of the show. So I think it's possible that that,
you know, it went down, but not the way that it was
shown on television. I don't think that. I think that happened the way
that it was shown on TV. In the world of w w E,
she would have showed up with the red hair, and I don't think it
would have been the head of talent relations decision to go I'm gonna I'm gonna
say that this is okay because what probably would have actually happened is all right.
I mean, if if that's the way you feel about it, you
know, let's go talk to Vince or Stephanie and let's see what they think.
And if they say yes, then you're good. If they don't you're
going blonde. I don't think that she would have walked up and said,
oh man, you know what, you changed my mind. She could have
changed her mind, but I don't think it happened the way that it did.
And then the other part of the question is, you know why in
that case, why wouldn't Vince embrace that. Vince does at times embrace that,
But I think that there's times too where uh, and if happened in
any genre of life, if you're completely vinced of something that will work,
and someone's rice telling you I don't think I can do it. If you
believe that they can, you're gonna tell them. I'm telling you this is
gonna work. Follow my lead on this. I've seen him do it and
trust me, it's gonna work. And then I've also seen other times where
he goes, man, I'm telling you, I don't think blonde is gonna
work. Well, I don't think that you can walk up to Vincent Mann
or anybody w W as an authority figure and go it's not gonna work.
What else can I do? You have to walk up and you have to
go Blonde's not gonna work. But I'll tell you what will work. Vince
red hair. You know you have Rihanna, you have this person, you
have that person. Look at what you're trying to establish me as is this
spicy, sexy, hot girl. Well I can stand out with red hair.
I can't stand out looking like Kelly Kelly or Summer May or whoever it
may be. And you can convince Vince to go, Man, you know
what, I never even thought about red hair. And that's a great idea.
Yeah, let's do it. So you know, people are quick to
rush to judgment. But it works both ways. There's times that he but
again, he could have had it in his head where he no, I'm
telling you, you are the blonde bombshell. I've been waiting ten years to
have this girl. You fit the mold, You're gonna be it. Trust
me, it's gonna work out. And then those times when he goes great,
loves the idea. Let's try it, oh John, with our just
a few minutes left with you, Let's let's look ahead to Rust of Mandy
A thirty for a minute. Does anything on the horizon look like the most
likely matches are obvious main event matches for WrestleMania thirty, And do you think
that the by rate news this week, not that it was a different than
estimates, but you know, locked in at barely above a million, does
that make Vince more willing to take a chance or more more willing to go
after Rock who has said, you know, he's open to coming back,
and maybe he's being coy and it's already a done deal, but you know,
I'm open to coming back. But if LA trust me, at twenty
nine was my last match, I'm happy with it. How does rustle Menia
thirty look to you? And how do you think Vince is looking at it?
Yeah? I think Vince is looking at it as you know. Again,
I don't know if it meant in his expectations for what he was trying
to accomplish with WrestleMania twenty nine, but I think that this is always gonna
want to beat what he already did, so I think he looked at this
as a challenge. I think he's gonna pull out all the stops for WrestleMania
thirty. I think that, you know, I think that he feels the
best way to get over that hump again and beat WrestleMania twenty nine. I'm
sorry, twenty eight would be with the Rocks involvement. So so I do
believe that, you know, whether whether Rock is worth it or not,
I think Vince sees him as his best hope. So I think that Rock
will be back, you know, and I think that it could even be
something where maybe their initial plans where Rock versus Brock or whoever it may have
been Rock Scene of three, I don't know, And you know, they
couldn't look back and they go, Okay, well, Rock SCENEA three,
it's losing its steam. Brock isn't really the draw that we thought he was
going to be. You know. Maybe they go back and they go,
look, it's WrestleMania thirty. It's a great excuse to do Rock versus Stone
Cold again. How big would that be? You know, I'm talking in
terms of what Vince's thinking. So I think that if Rock comes back,
they're they're gonna find the absolute biggest opponent for him. But I don't think
it's gonna be Sena. It could be Undertaker, you know, and maybe
by the time WrestleMania thirty comes around or Royal Rumble, maybe Rock will see
somebody that they go, I'm telling you, this guy's ready put him against
me. But I think he's gonna do everything he can. I wouldn't be
surprised if he goes to TNA and get permission to bring Hogan back, not
to work a match, but to be part of the festivities. I wouldn't
be surprised to see Batista, Jericho, all the big names pack. I
also wouldn't be surprised that he doesn't try to get a big celebrity to come
and participate in a match. I don't really know who that could be right
now, and again, by the time WrestleMania thirty comes around, it could
be anybody. But I mean, like even right now, you know,
I would think in terms of maybe getting like a Rod's going to say,
trying to get a shark, you know, shark Nader hues right now,
see if you can put a guy in a tank against the shark. Not
I'm being you know, uh, facetious there. But you know, I
don't know. I don't know what he's gonna do because you know, a
lot of things too is WrestleMania has planned out almost a year in advance,
but things can change. I mean, he could have saw that by rate
and said no, no, no, no no. Rock versus Rock isn't
working, Triple H versus Curtis Axel isn't working. We're going to change this
whole thing. And you know, there was the I know that the I
read something where I don't know who said it. I think maybe Shawn Michaels
had said it where he kind of revealed WrestleMania twenty six was originally you know,
uh Undertaker versus jamac and Tyre and uh Triple HS versus miss And and
Sean versus Shamus, and and that that was what the plan was, and
that was changed. Gosh, I think just right before Royal Rumble, so
it could change. And I don't know what they have planned, but I'm
telling you this is going to pull out all the stops for this one.
We have Dan Maddigan last week, excreative team member in the early two thousands
about Vincent man Quirks. I know we've talked to you too about them before.
He brought up the the idea of no yawning, and then Dan brought
up, you know, lions in the jungle yawn you know, but Vince
he's as a sign of weakness, and also that he didn't know what a
burrito was, even though he pack wraps every day for lunch with ketchup on
him and didn't think anyone else knew what a brito was any I know we've
asked you and you probably told the story before, but anything jump out as
the most interesting anecdote about Vince being in a bubble and kind of almost comically
being out of touch with something or having a weird quirk. Man, I
don't remember anything I would have told you, so if I repeat myself,
I apologize. But yeah, number one, that's funny. He doesn't know
what a burrito is, yet he eats one for lunch every day. Expect
it's brought up. He goes, what, what what is a burrito?
And they're like, it's what you know? It's this thing you who would
know that? Who else would know what that was? Nobody knows what that
is? It was like anyway, Yeah, that's that's what's great. And
that's also a weakness for this though. You know, if he doesn't think,
if he doesn't know something, then nobody else knows it. Just just
like I think I've explained before, if he doesn't remember something happening, nobody
else is going to remember it happening. So we're good. To go.
You know. Uh, I think at one point he was asked, you
know, Vice, do you do you even know what the highest rated show
on television is? And his answer was, of course, of course I
do it Steinfeld. He still thought that Science Feld was the highest rated show
on TV in two thousand and nine. In two thousand and ten, Man
and he thought it was called Steinfeld. So you know, I bet you
if we could have you know, got Kramer on there, he would have
thought that was a big snag. Although I would have might be, h,
yeah, it might be, but I would have loved Da Kramer on
there. But yeah, yeah, I can't think of anything else off the
top of my head. I'm sure if I was given more time, I
could probably think of something. But that wasn't stuck with me because it kind
of showed just how out of touch he is outside of his bubble. Yes,
absolutely, I mean there's just I do think Vince Wokman has ever been
inside a target? Ooh, oh, you know another story that you reminded
me of by saying that, Yeah, I don't know where they're located,
but I remember like one of the favorite places for the writers to go when
we were going from city to city one because it was always openly. But
man, they thought it was the greatest place to eat in the world.
I thought it was all right, but Steak and Shake. I don't know
if you know what that place is. But at one point Vince was in
the limo and they were hungry, so they pull over to get food and
they walk in a Steak and Shake and Vince wats to order a steak and
they goes, you know, we apologize, we don't we don't sell steaks.
Now, forgive me. I don't know the menu by heart, but
it's pretty much a burger joint. And he probably spent ten minutes talking with
the cashier about how they could call the place Steak and Shake yet not have
a steak for him. So then he asked if they could make him one,
and they couldn't make him one. So, uh, just just sort
of being so out of touch with I guess reality in a script. Yeah,
but I don't know. That's one of the great things about this well,
it makes it entertaining to talk about him. I mean, they're just
as driven, as madly driven and single minded as he is. There's a
price that is paid for that, and you know, what is your hunch.
By the way, getting back to that question of whether he's ever been
inside a target, I would probably say, uh, I would if I
was putting money on it, I would say, he knows what a target
is, but I don't think he's ever been in one. Yeah. Yeah,
give yourself a reason to look forward to. Go into the mailbox each
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Com slash paper Copy take a break from screen time and settle in every week
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paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two, you can get a
full year of home delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us for
an eight week trial subscription pwtorch dot com slash paper copy, John, have
you gotta go go? We just got an email from from Dewey who says
that you're one of his favorite guests and he just got home and he wanted
to sneak in a question. Do you have a minute answered or do you
gotta run? Yeah? Absolutely? Okay? Cool from Dewey from Cincinnati.
I just got home and saw that you were interviewing one of my favorite guests,
and I totally missed it, but I thought maybe there was still time
to sneak in a question for the VIP after show. So barely, but
yes, Dewey, John, I believe you were in w w E around
the time or right after Paul Hamer is having problems working with Stephanie and other
people and left the company. That did that predate you? Yeah, I
think that was That was a December of the year before I came in.
I think okay, But he says now that he's back in the company,
do you think he's been given an opportunity to get given put on the creative
side? Also, do you know if Dutch men Tell is working with creative
at all? Because he Dutch worked H. T and A was on A
T and A creative team in the mid two thousand and Finally, do think
when Stephanie and Triple HS come int power they would ever decide to go back
to just having a small group of two to four people booking the program and
writing the shows as was done the nineties. I hope you get this in
time. Thanks for coming back on the show. Okay, can you go?
Can you go through the questions one by one? Yeah? So,
Paul Hayman, do you think that what's your hunch or have you heard if
he has any kind of creative input out perhaps outside of his own storylines.
I don't. I don't think so. I don't. I don't even know
if he wants to. I think that he's happy just kind of. I
know he's really involved with the stories that he's involved with, though, so
I know, I know Paul is super involved in telling his stories, and
I'm sure Hayman is a big part of that. But I don't think that
Hayman sits in on any meetings and and look again it's speculation. I'm sure
that there's you know, guys that walk up to him and ask him for
advice. I mean, they'd be idiots. Not sure. Yeah, So
I think he helps in that regard, and I think that, you know,
I'm sure if I was a writer there, I would definitely utilize him
and go to him and go, hey, you know I was, I
was thinking of this, what do you think of this? Or how can
we do this? I think that he'd probably be involved in that aspect,
but I don't think he's going to production meetings, and I don't think that
he's going to any writers meetings and giving his input. I don't think that.
For the same question regarding Dutch Mantell, I don't think he's doing it,
but I'd be pretty confident in saying that he's probably floating some ideas through
creative for his current storyline. Yep. And then his last question was do
you think Triple H and Stephanie when they take over for Vince? And,
as I noted earlier this week, I think on a on a Keller hotline
when somebody is talking about this, Vincent Mann might be running the company when
Triple H and Stephanie are in their sixties. So let's keep that in mind.
I mean, he's not necessarily going anywhere quickly, although you know,
he'll face down his hours as as his energy, uh, you know,
reserves require But but that's a whole other topic. But if they were to
take over sometime in the near future, do you think that they would go
back to that more small inner circle writing team instead of having the multist multi
layered structure that they have now. I guess it depends on how they want
their company to be viewed. And I still feel like Triple H and Stephanie,
especially Stephanie, want to be an entertainment company and not just a wrestling
company. So I think that a lot of the reason for having writers and
bringing in you know, everyone always questions, man, why do they bring
in these soap opera writers if you know and they don't even laugh. I
think the answer to that is that they can say they have that person on
staff. I think they like saying they have a writing team. I think
they like saying that they their head writer is a guy who used to write
on this and this and that. And I think that, you know,
certain people mark out for certain things. And I think that as much as
they want to say that, they hate bringing in quote unquote wrestling fans as
writers because they don't want those people to to whether it's mark out or whether
it's just have only one way of thinking. I think they they're the same
way. I mean, I think that they felt like Freddy Prince Junior was
a huge asset on the writing team just because his name was Freddie Prince Junior.
And they can tell people they had Freddie Prince Junior. I don't think
from again, from the time that I came in right after he left,
and then he came in probably my last few months there, and from what
I saw, I didn't I didn't see anything that would make me go,
my god, it's a good thing we got Freddie Prince Junior on board.
Yeah. Well, you can imagine just like the sales team, you know,
selling or USA Network for that instance, in their sales team selling raw
and you know, some corporation going why would I want to advertise in pro
wrestling? It teams, so, you know, and then all the negative
adjectives or thoughts that come to mind, and they're like, oh no,
no, this is different. This is sports entertainment. And we've got you
know on the writing team includes heck, Freddie Prince Junior. I'm sure you've
heard of him, and uh, and this writer from a soap opera and
another guy who actually was wrote an episode of Friends, and that that,
from just a sales standpoint, strategically might make somebody who's hesitant to associate with
wrestling, uh, suddenly look at it differently. But if you go,
well we're different, and they go, yeah, well who writes the show,
Well this guy called Dutch Mantell and this other guy called Paul heyman,
it's you know, there is some value in just having somebody there just for
their resume. And I think too, I think a lot of that has
to do with I think they want to pay to be able to say that,
and I think that that's why a lot of times, you know,
they may roll their eyes when when writers have a suggestion. I think that
they still want to book and run the company the way that they want to
do it. And if you disagree, or if you have a philosophy difference
in theirs, they don't really care, you know, they just want to
be able to say, look, just sit here, you're you're like you
said, you're part of the sales pitch. And I'm sure that there's some
people that they appreciate. I think is the best word their opinion more than
others. But I think for the most part is look, we got Sandled,
we need you to come up with some of these ideas, but we're
going to lead you to how we want you to do it and then going
back to your thing. But I think they look at it as we got
Freddie Prince Junior here, and he's more important to us as someone we could
say, hey, Freddie Prince Junior is here, but in order to keep
him happy, yeah, we got to listen to him a little bit more.
I mean, I remember, as great as some people are going to
think this idea is, and hey, I'd love to see it, but
at the time when it was pitched, it made zero sense to do it.
But I think it was like our first, our first three hour raw
in a long time, and it was okay, guys, we need a
theme. We need to find something to do for three hours. And there
was all these ideas, you know, crazy ideas gett't tossed around. One
being you know, let's do King of the Ring. One was, you
know, let's do these battle Royals. One was whatever it may be,
and he had pitched let's do Daniel Bryan versus CM punk in an Iron Man
match, and again people are sitting there going, oh man, I'd love
to see that. But again, that's a great match, but it needs
to be done at the proper time and for the right reason, and to
just throw it out there when Punk wasn't being utilized, I think he was
still on SmackDown. Daniel Bryan was, I think, just right out of
NXT. And you know, if I were to pitch that, I think
that I would have been sat down and given wrestling one on one lesson,
and instead it was oh god, yeah, you know, as great as
that might be. Oh man, Yeah, let's consider that, but what
do you think of this instead? And I think it was just more so
make this guy happy so he sticks her out. Yeah, yep, now
that that makes a lot of sense. John, Thank you so much for
your time again and you're insight analysis what's going on today in some cool behind
the scenes stories as always from your days there. It's always fun. Great.
Thank you so much. Wait, great, John. Thanks to all
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