What's up, y'all is Drewski and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a hilarious new basketball podcast called The due Zone with Drewsky. Learn the backstories of your favorite balls and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite team? Was it the Raptors at the time or no? Was the Rappers even started on the topic? Come on, bro, I had that tell you like I'm fifty, Taylor Rogues, Asian Wilson, and many more. You won't want to miss this. Listen to The Due Zone with Drewsky on Apple, Podcast, Spotify and wherever you listen to podcasts. Pile leaned in and said something to Freddie, don't let them change you. Keep working on what makes you different and what makes you special. It was great advice, but it calls me some problems. But what could change Freddie Ado? Soccer is going to explode it and it's going to be around this kid. We're the Beatles. Everywhere we went it was the Freddie Show. And with that came the expectation, and with that came the pressure. New episodes of American Prodigy drop Tuesday from Blue Wire Podcasts. SUPs ups up Hardwin Knocks listeners, I am Dama Valley coming at you once more without my fantastic co host Adam frommel I am, however, excited to keep our look Ahead train a rolland we have two teams for you today. First up, we will have Tony Jones of the Athletic on to discuss the Utah Jazz. He covers them and the NBA at Large over at the Athletic. Follow him on Twitter at t Jones NBA spelled exactly as it sounds. After him, we will speak with Derek James, who covers the Minnesota timber Wolves for the Wolf among Wolves blog and Kanas Hoopis. He also covers the Seattle Storm for the Next Hoops Follow him on Twitter as well at Derrick James NBA, spelled exactly as it sounds. How great? Is that? Some easy to talk about Twitter handles today? Before we dive in one, I want to thank everyone for really engaging with our singular team. I guess we could still call the multi team pods, but the downloads have been fairly consistent with our league wide episodes. We hope that you continue to download every episode. If you're listening for the first time. I beg plead employ you to subscribe download all of our episodes, whether or not you use iTunes. Also head over there search Hardwood Knox throw us a rating writer review that really helps us as well. Also, we are closing in on three hundred reviews, and once we top that, once we get a little ahead of it, there may be an MBA two K giveaway. Who knows, I don't know, Maybe I'm lying? Am I lying? Who knows? Let's find out. Get us above comfortably above three hundred ratings and we will see without further delay, though, let's get to some Utah jazz with Tony Jones and then some Minnesota Timberwolves with Derek James. Tony, thank you so much for coming on the Hardwood Knox podcast to talk some Utah jazz with me. How are you doing today? Good? I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. I definitely appreciate it, appreciate the invite. Oh no, please, we need to talk. Asked who else for better to bring on than you? So kind of? I think the place to start with them is they had like a It felt like an upkeeping off season where you know you yet you extend Oovan Mitchell. You resigned Jordan Clarkson and you're bringing back Derek Favors, and so I'm just wondering what your overall impression was of the offseason, just the body of worth, if they did relative to where they finished last year. Yeah, it's interesting. I thought they had a pretty effective off season. I think there are other people. I think there are people who don't share that same sentiment. But I definitely thought they had a good offseason because I think that they on paper. Of course, now you have to now this has to be proven, you know, once once the games start. But on paper, I mean they've they've plugged, you know, most of their holes. You know, they they were an atrocious team last year when Rudy Gobert was off the floor, and that was because they couldn't play a primarily because they couldn't play the same way when he was off the floor, on either end of the floor, on either end of the court. And Derek Favors solves that, uh in spates he you know, Favors is still you're basically you're essentially getting a guy who's still a starting level, starting level player in this league. You know, for fifteen to eighteen minutes a night, depending on depending on more depending on the matchup. So you know, I think the favors of help the second unit pretty significantly. I thought that the Jazz, you know, lack the perimeter defender, just a specialist somebody who could you know, guard for ten minutes a night. And I think the Shaquille Harrison that signing helps that, uh immeasurably. And you know, and the Jazz are counting on continuity. I mean they you know, they're counting on you know, the core of Mitchell, Vodanovich, Conley and Robert being together for another year really helping. So you know, I think this team was really good through its first eight last year, and I think that their first eight got better this year. So we'll see how it works out once once the ball goes in the air and the game starts for real. I feel like the criticism has mainly focused on as if they made a choice between adding in athletic wing to like play the help out at the four, and then just giving the entire emility to Derek Favors. And I think my question there would just be like where else was that money supposed to go? Maybe you can still question the decision to invest in another big and deciding, you know, hey, we're not going to play it basically a single minute without an above average center on the court. But I just don't know, like who was the wing that they were supposed to an athletic wing they were supposed to sign. So if the money wasn't like Derek Favors, I think could have just plainly been the best player they were able to get for the money that they had to spending. Well, it's in my opinion that you know, I thought that, you know, adding a defensive wing was was a priority, But I thought that, but I thought that, you know, figuring out that the non Rudy Gobert minutes was hands down, far and away the number one issue for the Jazz last year. You know, there were it was, there were so many times where Rudy Gobert will be on the floor for his first nine minutes of his rotation in the first quarter, and you know, the Jazz would be up, would be up six when he was six to eight points when he went to the bench, and you know, four minutes later, five minutes later, they'd be they'd be down. And and that's not a defense, that's not a defensive wing issue. That's a that's a back of big issue for the Jazz for the way that they play, you know, so for the way that they play, it was, you know, Favors was by far was a significantly more pressing issue in in my estimation. And plus, the Jazz were smoked last year by one team, and I mean smoked, like there was one team last year that the Jazz just could not compete with, and that was the Lakers. And that's because they did not have the size to deal with with their two big alignment and Favors. You know, obviously you're not going to stop Anthony Davis, but Favors helps. You know, you can put Favors on Anthony Davis, and that means what that means is Rudy Gobert at the same time does not have to guard Anthony Davis. You can guard whoever the center is. So you know, those are some subtle things that that Favors helps with. And you know, I get that the Jazz needed a defensive wing. I think that Harrison helps because he can he can guard at the very least, he can guard point guards and shooting guards. Royce O'Neill guards guards, small forwards and power forwards. So you know, I think that they you know, they at least adequate, adequately figured out pretty much all of their issues from last year. Twenty twenty has already reshaped how we work and it's almost over. Businesses across the globe are challenged to be their most efficient, which means every hire is critical Well. Indeed is here to help. Unlike other sites, Indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility over your hiring. You only pay for what you need, You can pause your account at any time, and there are no long term contracts. And now Indeed's new way of matching you with candidates instantly delivers a shortlist of quality candidates whose resumes on Indeed matching your job criteria that you can contact the moment you sponsor a job making Indeed the only job site that can move as fast as you do. Right now, Indeed is offering our listeners a free seventy five dollars credit to your job post, which means more quality candidates will see it and fast. Try Indeed out with a free seventy five dollars credit at indeed dot com slash bluewire. This is their best offer available anywhere, go right now to indeed dot com. Slash Bluewire offers valid through December thirty. First terms and conditions apply. Looking at Donovan Mitchell specifically, did you view like his performance in the Bubble as kind of like a or you know, particularly in that for most of the postseason series against for most of the postseason excusely like a sort of a swing moment for this team, because it felt like his official entry into stardom where everyone was waiting to see whether he could have a more efficient offensive impact in the postseason following his first two trips there, and then he's just you know, he's absolutely volcanic through most of those playoffs. And so is that just another uh, you know, when you're looking for improvement from this team, where how can they get better? If if Derek Favors was their biggest edition, that some of that can actually still come internally because this is only going to be Donovan Mitchell's fourth season because of the performance that he is working off of. Well, the interesting thing was he had a great postseason the first the first year his rookie gear. He was he was there were arguments that he was the best player in the series against Oklahoma City. Obviously, that Houston series in the second year was was was really rough, very very very rough from a from an efficiency standpoint, from a decision making standpoint. But you know, the Jazz look at Donovan Mitchell when they think that he has a chance to be become a superstar at some point in his career, and he showed flashes of it. Obviously. Not a question is what part of the bubble where Obviously you know, he turned in he and Jamal Murray turned in some historic performances. What part of the bubble translates now? Donovan Mitchell shot about fifty five or fifty seven percent, I don't know off the top of my head, off the dribble threes in the bubble. He's not gonna shoot that in the regular season. That's not going to translate. But what can translate is the decision making where you know, height eight out of ten times in the bubble, he was making the right decision even if the shot missed, he was making the right decision make or miss between you know, whether you know he takes the shot or creating for something for somebody else on his team. And I would estimate that that was probably about a six out of ten during the regular season, so you know, if if the decision making translates, it's very obvious to the Jazz that Donovan Mitchell's best NBA position is going to be a point guard. And that's something that was not anticipated his first couple of years. You know, there was like, Okay, let's see if he can be a point guard. But he made a significant leap towards actually becoming a franchise point guard. And so now the Jazz feel, Okay, you know, Mike Conley can play to point and Donovan Mitchigan play a point and they're fine both ways. So you know, I think the Jazz are pretty bullish on Donovan and what he can and what he can become going forward. That's kind of the vision of him as a point guard, and he did. He spend a lot of time there last year, and a big part of that, I'm sure is because Mike Conley missed a bunch of time. But you also look at the makeup of this roster and it feels like that is sort of how they envision him because they can stagger him and Conley a bunch and then they also just really don't have like you know, you don't identify someone who's definitely gonna get the like as a backup point guard, Like you're not gonna want Jordan Clarkson in that role. You know, maybe Joe Ingles is a primary playmaker. Those lineups can be strained, and so when you just look at the makeup of the secondary part of this roster, it makes you feel even more like they've believe that his long term position is going to be that point guard spot. Yeah. Well this is about design, you know, because if if the Jazz didn't feel like Donovan Mitchell was a point guard, they would probably go on out and gotten one. It's the reason why they went out and got Manuel Moodier last year, one of the reasons. But you know, it's it's uh, one of those things right now where the Jazz feel like, Okay, you know, once we're all, you know, assuming good health, you know, you have terrific point guard play for forty eight minutes, and assuming good health, you have terrific centerplay for forty eight minutes, and you can mix and match the rest because you know, there are enough spare there are enough interchangeable parts where the Jazz can be you know, really flexible you know, so, so I definitely think that, you know, I definitely think that they're counting on Mitchell being able to to log big minutes at the one spot and to be able to you know, do everything that that comes with that, which is, you know, create for himself, create for others, but also you know, defend out of that spot, and you know, and and manage and manage a game as well, which is, you know, frankly, where he lacked, where he lacked the first couple of years, is having a let's just see if he's healthy for more of the year than he was last season. Is Mike Conley like almost like close to in addition for this team just because of you know how many games he did miss, but then like some of the inconsistency he battled with, I felt like he did close the year stronger. And so if you have him, you know, you don't need to lean on him as much. I guess if you're gonna maybe even close games with Mitchell of the one or just have mitchellth the one a bunch, but having him healthy does that end up even with you know, in boyon Vogdanovitch him coming back from risk surgery, it feels like there's still an element of this team that we just didn't get to see last season. And so what everyone says like, oh, didn't make enough changes or they didn't add enough talent, like to know that we didn't see like Mike Conley at full strength, and certainly the bubble, we didn't have Bogdanovitch there at all. Is that like something that factors into this team ceiling this season? Well, I wouldn't call Mike Conley. In addition, I thought he was pretty darn good in the bubble, and you know, I think the Jazz did as well. Obviously, he started rough, he had injury issues, he had some real acclamation issues and turn into you know, how do I play with Donovan Mitch because he never played with another dynamic ball handler before. He never played with a guy that could play with the ball in his hands like Donovan Mitchell, and I mean he was always playing with Tony Allen types. So you know that there was some real acclamation issues, uh with with with with Mike, and the ironed him out bright the end of the year, you know, towards you know, towards the end of the season, right before the COVID nineteen shutdown. You know, they figured out how to stagger Mitchell and Connley to the point where okay, they're playing minutes together, but they're also playing minutes on their own, where both of those guys are running their own team. And now those two guys know, you know what to expect. So you know, I thought Conley was really good in the bubble, and I thought that he was had started to get better towards the end of the regular season. Now Bogdanovich obviously we didn't see him in the bubble at all. So you know, if if if you say, if you were to say, hey, Mitchell's going to improve, you know, go from a guy that's like twenty four a night to a guide that's about twenty six, twenty seven, five and five something like that, and Bob Danovich is still a guy that's that's giving you, you know, twenty a nine. Then guess what the Jazz is gonna be pretty darned good offensively between Knie Mitchell and Bogdanovich. And then you know, obviously you add in Rudy Gobert's finishing at the ability to finish at the rim, you're adding Joe Ingles shooting, and you're adding Jordan Clarkson's ability to come off the bench and be a terrific six man. So the component what the Jazz looked at all encompassing was, Okay, we have a chance to be one of the best offenses in the league, but our ceiling is going to be our defense, which is ironic enough, because the Jazz were always, you know, a top three defense until last year to where they dropped to all the way down to the middle of the pack. So if the if the Jazz can figure out a way to be one of the top you know, six or seven offenses in the league, but also one of the top ten defenses in the league, the way they figure it, they're gonna win a lot of games this year, or they going to have a chance to win a lot of games this year. I do think part it felt like part of their offensive success at least like that that trade mid season for Jordan Clarkson, it seems like he sort of saved their bench. Do you view his like performance in Utah from last year is replicable where you you know, it's four years and fifty two million, Like, is that a comfortable price point for what he's bringing to the table Because his shot making was you know, almost from all over was was basically at a career high level last year. You know, even I think even before he went to Utah. Well, obviously, by any measure that you can you could think of, Jordan Clarkson had a career season last year. You know, he was you know, he's obviously figured out his NBA niche which is he's he's a high acting six man. Uh. You know, he made shots from all over the place. Like you said, he saved he saved the jazz bench and large measure. You know. So the question is, all right, you know, here's the old the old adages. You're always going to perform great in the contract year. Right so now this is not a contract year. You have, you know, all the security that you want. You have fifty two million dollars, you have a four year contract. Not a question is can you keep up that consistency? And that's something that that Jordan's gonna have to go out and improve. He's gonna have to, you know, go out and improve that. You know, this is this is who he is, and you know, and the jazz a confident that he can do that. But he still has to go out and do that. How does the like you mentioned at sort of the top of this podcast, the jazz a top eight got better and it is really strong. How does sort of like, who are the next guys like outside those top eight to keep an eye on because they're not going to know once you get to the playoffs. You probably you're okay with going eight deep, but I would assume they're not planning on going just those eight players deep in every single game. So who are those other guys on this roster that are going to be regular the rotation and have a chance to make an impact of who they really need to make an impact? So George Yang was in their topic last year, He's now you're nine. Nice Juwan Morgan, who the Jazz are really high on. Uh, he probably becomes your tenth and me Ayoni, the second year wing out of Yale. Uh, he becomes your eleventh. Probably in the Jazz are high on him as well. You know, Only and Morgan, you know are two guys that that played in the G League for most of the year last year. Uh, they developed. We know Morgan because he started a couple of games in the playoff series against Denver. You know, So, uh, if those two pan out and we know what George George Yang does. He he's he's, you know, a forty percent three point shooter's floor he's a ball mover and he's a floor spacer. So you know those are your your next three after after the first eight. And then you know you look at you know, Udoka as a book as a bookie. Who's you know, Utah's first round draft pick. Uh. I think he's gonna get some time because you know, you can't expect both of Derrick Favors and Rudy Gobert to play all seventy two games, So they're gonna be They're gonna be games where he's gonna have rotation minutes. And the Jazz are high, well, at least offensively. They're high on Elijah Hughes, the rookie wing out of Syracuse. Uh. They think that he can play, at least offensively. They think he can play right now. They think that he you know, still has he's gonna have a learning curve defensively on the other end, but offensively, they think that he can play. He's he's a good shooter, he's a good athlete. He's good with the ball in his hands. Uh. And and you know he's putting the ball on the deck and in camp and he's making play. So you know it's gonna be interesting to see those guys in the preseason, you know, because I think that through the first three preseasons and games, I would I would imagine that a lot of those young guys get all right, get a chance to do some things. The weight is finally over. Football is back. You might not be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at bet online. That Online is going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on every possible chance to win this season, from game spreads and totals to team player and coaching props. That Online gives you more options to wager on than anywhere else. You can get in on their season opening bonuses today and start off wagering on wins, Vision odds championship futures all day every day. Head to bet online today and take advantage of all the great sign up buses. Don't forget to use promo code blue wire all one word at bet online dot ag that's blue wire all one word bet online. You're online sports book experts the UH and I know that they're closing lineups. A lot of it will be matchup based, but when you look at like specifically their top six guys, it feels like there's a lot of different ways that you could build out lineups there. So what do you envision or think will end up being their most common or you know, most used, their most effective crunch time lineup? Next year it will probably be Mike Conley, uh, Donovan Mitchell, Joe Ingles, Boya Bogdanovich and and Rudy Gobert and then you you know, depending on the matchup, you swap out Joe Ingles and Royce O'Neill. But you know those six, you know, those are those are going to be your guys that that close most of the nights. Is there any chance that we see like instances where maybe you remove Conley and use Mitchell at the one in those scenarios or is that kind of uh, you know, takeaway too much shock creation. No, that the jazz like Conley, and you know that's you know, it's it's almost comical. You know, you know that I read the Kindley takes online and on Twitter, you know, knowing how to jazz feel about him. Internally, the jazz really like him, and they really think he's they think he's really good. So you know, he's to the Jazz, he's unquestionably one of their top five players, you know, so I would expect him to be firmly in the cloth in the closing lineups for most of the season, if not all the season. Is there, and this is more obviously your preference based like a quirky lineup, you could see them trying like a little bit offeat at some point in the season, not necessarily in crunch time, but just at any point, maybe like a smaller unit because they have these these bigs who are in favors and Gobert who could probably take up pretty much every single minute of most games when they're healthy, or just any lineup that you're particularly interested in seeing from this team leading into next season. Yeah, you know, I I you know, it's gonna be interesting to see how much time Juan Morgan gets, you know, I can I can see there would be some lineup s where you know, certain guys are out even even since to the starting lineup. And the reason why I say that is because the numbers show that he plays really well in his minutes, will really Gobert so you know that that's something that you know, you watch out for. It would be interesting to see. You know, you can't expect Donovan Mitchell and Mike Conin to play all seventy two games concurrently, So on the nights that you know one of those guys are out, you know, how much time you know, do you play shack Harrison? How much time do you you know, do you give me a only air shot? You know, the I think the thing, you know, at least on paper, because we could say the same thing last year on paper, on paper, on paper, and then you know when it when the ball went up, it didn't really pan out on paper. The Jazz can can go a lot of ways with a lot of matchups. They can go bigger if they want to play Rudy Go Baron Derrick Favors together. They can go smaller, you know, they can. They can throw you know, Donovan Mitchell at the point guard and throw a lot of wings at you. They have a lot of shooting, They have a lot of playmaking as well. They just have a lot of guys who can dribble, pass and shoot. So you know, it's going to be really interesting to see, uh, how they stack up this year. This is and it's tough to say, impossible to say without actually seeing the games, and there are you know, they're they're not the most flexible team. They're hardcapped. But if you know, you get to appoint mid season and it's just clear that maybe they don't necessarily have like the athletic juice at the wing spots to worry about prospective playoff series against you know, a few different opponents in the West. Is that can you see this team, you know, just looking at the contracts they have, they do have some movable pieces. Could you see a scenario where they're making a mid season change or do you think that they've I think every team maybe or most good teams maybe have the intention of sticking with who they have and but overall, do you just see them maybe not so inclined to make any sort of moves this season or could you see them being willing to adjust it again that that athletic juice defensively isn't there on the wings. No, They're definitely willing to adjust if you know, if if they see that they're not they're not good enough. I think the passes has has told us that, right you know, their bench. They've been sucked the first couple of months of the season last year, so you know, they made a move to the bolst of the bench. You know, they recognize that, uh, Jeff Green and Ed Davis were not working, so you know they outright release Jeff Green and and and you know they demoted at Davis to uh to to third string. So you know they've they've they've proven in the past that you know they're they're in aggressive fun office. You know. So if if if the Jazz don't use their fifteen spot, and I'm not anticipating that they will, if they keep that fifteen spot up, then it'll be interesting to see what they do at the trade deadline if if the need precipitates, what do you think, you know, maybe assuming that there isn't any big changes to this roster, what's a realistic you know, win total for them this year or just placed to angle for in the in the Western Conference hierarchy. I think they can play with any team in the West outside of the Lakers in a playoff series. I think that the Lakers are the one team are probably the only team in the West that if they got into a series with the Jazz, I would. I would make them significant. I would make the Jazz significant underdogs. Any other team, you know, the Jazz will either be a slide underdog where they'd be right there with them, or they'd be an outright favorite. You know. So there are so many good teams in the West that I think that the Jazz have have a ceiling and the floor, and I think that it's wide wide ranging. Like I think they can finish all the way and they could finish all the way at number two if everything goes right and they have good health and they play really well and the parts really mesh, and I think they can finish as low as six if if things don't go right. You know, the thing about the Jazz is, you know, they have too much talent and too much depth and too many good players to finish out to not make the playoffs. And you know, and I don't think that they're going to struggle to make the playoffs. So that's why I would think that six would be their floor. But you know, I do think that on paper, in my opinion, I think that this is the best team that I have seen. Quinn Snyder and Dennis Lindsey put the in Justin Zana put together. So it'll be interesting. But that's only on paper. You gotta go out and play. So it'll be interesting to see if if, if that all messages once, once everything starts to count. Yeah, I mean, as you said, the West is just so complicated because there's even an element of how much will the Lakers and the Clippers like really be committed to like the regular season. Like I feel like those are two teams that might not care as much about playoff seeds, and so you could probably expand the jazz scope like even a little bit further. And there's you know, what if you know, Stephen Curry remains healthy with Golden State, what if KP gets healthy and play as well? And in Dallas they're just so what if James Harden isn't traded out of Houston? They're so like it almost was like one through seven this year could end up being any combination that you imagine. Yeah, and you know, and then not only is did the injury component, but there's the COVID nineteen component. Now it'll be the one thing I am interested in is with h the news of a vaccine now being available surprisingly right now, what is the hierarchy for the NBA, and for the NFL, and and for you know, NC doubaa basketball for their players, for their guys and their personnel to get vaccinated, because if you know, you can vaccinate those guys rather quickly. If those guys and girls and men and women, ladies and gentlemen, if they you know, if they qualify to be at or near the top of of of the food chain for lack of a better word, you know, in terms of in terms of qualifying for the vaccine, then you know, the sports leagues, the major sports leagues can can can I don't want to say rid themselves, but they can protect themselves a lot better against against the pandemic than than before. Uh. This last question is like not so much pertaining to the court, but I do think it speaks to like what type of urgency the Jazz would have this season, And they'll have an urgency anyway, just because a lot of you know, some of the players on the team conly angles of a GANDVICH. They are getting up there in years. But do you think there's any chance we get a Rudy Gobert extension or is this more of a wait until the off season type of situation at this point. Nah, it's fifty fifty. I mean, it's it's us. I think it's gonna go down to the wire. I know there's an offer on the table, you know, and I think that you know, there's there's going to be some kind offers and you know there's gonna be some negotiating. So I think that it's one of those things that it's going to go down to to the last day and then we'll see what happens there. And I know that bigs are valued like so differently, and people think that you can approximate them on the cheap more so, and I think that's true to some extent. But if if I am Rudy Gobert, like you saw a different positions, but a player like Gordon Hay would get four years and so much money in a cap poor market, and next year there's just going to be like a few more teams, a bunch more teams with spending power that you have to believe, you know, the saying that it only takes one team, like there might be three teams that could go high for Gobert. And again I know it's you know, centers more of the oversaturated position, but I'm just wondering if something like that factors into his thinking or even the Jazz is thinking at all, because it feels like it's a higher threat level after watching that in this type of market that a team would go after, you know, a defensive perennial defensive player of the year in his prime, who is who is a defensive system unto himself? Yeah, well, I mean it only takes one and then I and you know, I think that I think that NBA decision makers think differently than you know, what what we on Twitter think. And you know, we can say that centers an oversaturated market, but it was literally just proven that it's not during the Plash because the Lakers bludgeoned everybody on both ends of the floor because they had so much size and nobody else had the size to match up with them. You know. So I think that you know, once you once, you you know, get if Rudy Gobert got through understricted free agency, I think that there would be a market for him, and I think that there would be competition with the Jazz, and so, you know, I know, the Jazz are offering them a lot of money. You know, they want to they want they are clear that they want him to be with the organization for the rest of the his career, and you know, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks. Is there anything I didn't ask that I glossed over that you wanted to talk about, or something that's just nationally not recognized about this team or off the mark about them, anything along those lines. Nah, I think this was really good, very thorough interview from my guy. Well, thank you so much, Tony. I appreciate you coming on. For anyone who's not already following you on Twitter? What are you doing? Remedy that immediately at T Jones on the NBA spelled exactly as it sounds. He covers the Utah Jazz and the NBA for the athletic I'm Tony again. Thank you so much for giving me your time, and I'm sure I'll be pestering you again down the line. Absolutely, man, thank you for having me and I really appreciate me. I appreciate you. Welcome back to the Hardwood Knox Podcast. Eric. It has been many minutes, I guess, as the kids would say, at this point, over a year since your last appearance, but I'm happy we were able to sync up again to talk some Timberwolves. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. Dan. I think it's now like our in your tradition. How are you doing, I'm doing well. No complaints. Relative to everything that's happening in the world over here, how has it been Has it been like an adjustment? This is like totally not really related to the Timberwolves, but covering the team, and like you're you know, you're doing all these interviews and now stuff like via just remotely, like these videos. How big of a difference has that been? Like for coverage, It's so like the really unique thing is that you're now in these rooms with all these different people like for instance, today's Wolves Zoom with Karl Anthony Towns. Like Milika Andrews is in there, and I think, you know, like Milike Andrews probably isn't going to Timberwolves media day before any regular season, right, So you're in these really unique situations. Are gonna be in these places with other people, But it's definitely a little different, uh, you know, not being elbow to elbow and you know, three feet from the player, which you know now it seems like a horrifying thing to do. I don't know. I guess I'm kind of used to it at this point after nine months between Links and Storm and Timberwolves, and like, yeah, it's you know, it's kind of just becoming life. I'm interested, and I don't mean that to say like that. I support, like want things to you know, stay the same with how they're being run. I feel like some of these policies, like particularly in the locker room, like when looking at the asset access, I'm wondering how much of it like sort of holds over and trickles over into a post pandemic world, which is at this point a world that I can't really imagine, to be honest with you, Yeah, no, that's a good question. I think I've talked to a few people have wondered the same thing. I'm just like fellow meeting people are like, you know, they probably would like us to be you know, less hands on and you know, on the day to day stuff. Yeah. So I know, like some guys, you know, especially like those Friday nights after games, no one wants to talk to you, like they want to get out there and enjoy their nights. And when they do, like the pre game availability in the locker room, but like where it's not real availability, like no one there are a couple of players being in New York, like having been around the Nets and Knicks and like some of the visiting teams, Like yeah, there are some players that are like cool with it, but like no one wants to talk to you before the game when they're either trying to concentrate or just like enjoying the few moments of peace that they're actually going to get before the circus begins. At least no rotation guy. Like I remember about five years ago, I was looking to talk to Ed Davis and Blazer's parts, like, oh, he's in there, go find him. It's like thanks. So I go in there and he's in his like I don't know what the leg suit things called, but at his headphones on sitting on the floor. I'm like, this guy's just doing his thing and get loose for the game, Like I'm not going to go talk to him. Like this was not well organized, right, And that's like when I had the opportunity to opt out of Like I haven't done like on site game coverage in like three years now, so like it's not related to the pandemic necessarily at all when I had the chance to opt out, like I did, because day to day I felt like such a nuisance to these guys. So I admire anyone who can actually like do the daily coverage and like, you know, go through the scrums. I don't know, like I'm just not you use the word persistent enough for too much of a coward, So I guess do that. Like I after like two years of doing it, I was like, you know what this I can't, Like, I feel like I'm invading upon every single moment of their lives, even when we have an interview scheduled, and so this is just not for me. Yeah, I think it depends on your job too. I mean, like if you're like more I guess maybe more traditional media or something, you know, where it's like it's your job to be there every single day, practice shoot around and you know, then I think that's a little different where like it's your job. But like, yeah, I can understand sometimes not wanting to do that because I've certainly felt that where my guest really doesn't matter as much. Yeah, at the time too, it was like I was mainly doing the nets and they were like treating like Isaiah Whitehead, like he had state secrets, and so like you get to a point where it's like, what am I trying to do? I did bring you on though, to talk about the twenty twenty twenty one Timberwolves, and I think the best place to start is just what was your general impression of the Wolves's off season? From you know, drafting Afy Edwards at number one, Rubio is back, they resigned her in A Gomez and Malik Beasley, the ladder of which received a lot more money than I was expecting them too. But where's your general impression anything that stands out that you liked disliked. Well, so I actually have liked this front office's philosophy of acquiring NBA players. I have done the same thing last off season. They didn't really fit. But it's like you were like, Okay, well, these guys, you know, they're at least NBA players, and I don't know, maybe I don't know Trevy and Graham or Jordan Bell have jobs right now, but you know at the time, you're like, hey, these are rotation guys, Like these are guys who can play on a team. And I think you feel that way now, about especially this year. I mean, the timber Rowls, one way or another have no shortage of lead ball handlers with Ricky Rubio coming back right and I mean he has his laws, but I think there's, you know, at least something to be said for that. I mean, there's a glut of wings. I think I would have liked them to find another front course core piece. I mean Ed Davis and Ronde Hollis Jefferson are you know, good depth pieces. But like you know, I don't think they're going to move the needle a ton, but I think adding a little more impactful depth there. I mean, given their cap restraints, that wasn't easy to do, but I think that's about the only thing you really could have realistically wished for. I think the biggest thing they did, just because of the nature of what that pick is supposed to represent, is taking Anthony Edwards. And I found it interesting while Edwards was in the mix for the number one pick all year, and there were times where it seemed like he was a favorite, and I think when you look at fit, he made more functional sense. I think then definitely Wiseman and probably LaMelo as well, but there was like this huge chunk of time leading up to it where it felt like it was going to be LaMelo to the extent where so the Wolves rather going to keep the pick and take them or move it where you actually surprised where they landed. Do you like the Edwards pick? Just what are you? What are your thoughts on that and how that played out. So I hadn't really dove into the draft at all before the draft, Like I listened to podcast here and there, and like I kind of knew about the guys a little bit. I was of the belief that even though James Wiseman said, oh no, I won't go to Minnesota, won't play in Minnesota. Having learned from DeMarcus Cousins not being a Timberwolf because he wouldn't work out for them, or Steph Curry refusing to work out for them and then the team not choosing them for those reasons, I'm like, well, you just take this guy anyway if he's your guy. I mean, he doesn't play, he doesn't play, and you always have the option of trading him then, So that didn't really matter to me. I think Paul would have been a fied ball hander. But I think the Anthony Edwards pick is the home run pick. I think just with all the things that he's able to do and just his abilities, he really looks like he could be a really impactful player down the road. And I think that's something that like, if you think that he has the highest upside at that spot, I think that's what you're aiming for and you don't just settle for the safest pick there. Yeah, and I think too, I know people aren't concerned with like necessarily fit. You're you're just supposed to draft the best player available that high. But I just feel like the fit is so much clearer and he's still I know, the wolves kind of have like and we'll get to this, they're like sort of telling this line between immediate aspirations, but they're not necessarily there yet. I appreciate the sentiment of the big swing even if it doesn't work out. And I think the biggest criticism with him was people didn't think that he had this great feel for the game and like you like I was, I said, I was like shin deep in draft coverage, like it's just not something I pick up until right before the draft itself. If that's really the problem, Like that's a player that you can try and groom to do more off ball stuff, and so maybe it's not as like this wonky ball dominant fit when you have all these other playmakers on the team as well. I think one thing Edwards and his coach at Georgia, Tom Creane, talked about was how much of an emphasis playing off the ball was. You just look at, like how physically dominant he is for his age and his size, And there were some moments where it's like, like, you he has these plays where he's locked in and you know, he looks unstoppable on both ends, you know, and then other moments where it's like what are you doing? You know, like how can this be the same player? And sometimes I just wonder like are you bored? Like are you just to realize that, you know, like you're too good for these guys and it's just hard to stay engaged. But I think that's easy to see, you know, him getting himself motivated like that. I feel like the Timberwolves showing him like, hey, this is what we think you could be. I think that's inspiring to a player. And I think that a lot of the comparisons to Andrew Wiggins having spent so much time around Andrew Wiggins aren't. Really it's not a good comparison. I always thought that Andrew has a very laid back personality. He's very sob spoke, and Anthony Edwards seems more you know, like he wouldn't be afraid to be the place of the franchise if it came down to it. I think he's he's his personality seems more assertive than Andrews, right, and I think that's a really important distinction to have between the two players. So, I mean, but the thing is, like, I don't think you can say like, oh, he's gonna have they can get this coach, they can get this player that's going to motivate him. I mean it's he. I mean Edwards himself has acknowledged that the effort thing is an issue. I wish he would stop saying it every chance he had, but and actually just go out there and just show it, because the only one who can motivate him consistently is going to be him. Now he's a professional. Do you play stock in like the comments that he made like pre draft where it says I don't I can't even remember what it was Robeta, but where it said like he didn't necessarily choose basketball, basketball chose him or something where people thought like he just wasn't committed enough to it. I find it like and people went through this stuff with a melo ball saying he doesn't interview. Well, I find it like really hard to place actual stock in things like that. So with that with Edwards in particular, I think so like if you've just read that out of context, or if you didn't finish the rest of the piece, it would be it's more concerning. It seems more concerning than it really is. I think, you know him saying like, oh, you know, if all things equal, I would choose football, and it's like, I mean fine, Like I mean Jimmy Butler walked around the football and is talked about wanting to play football, but nobody questions Jimmy Butler's loft to basketball because we know he's in the gym every morning at three thirty in the morning. You know. So there's the difference, Like Jimmy Butler can say that and we all just laugh and go hud Jimmy, but Anthony Edwards hasn't earned that part of it yet. And not that he can't say that because really it doesn't matter as long as he's you know, playing basketball. But I think the thing with him saying like he doesn't casually watch basketball, it's because, like you watched him with like Jonathan Givanni breaking down his own game, he's able to recall these plays, understand all the different acts and all the different options on that play, what worked, why didn't work, and call him out ahead of someone like Gavanni. So it's clearly he puts in the work watching this film and spends the time in the film room so much. I don't think that like just casually watching you know, NBA and T and T does much for him. And I'm like, well, you know, like I can't really fault the guy for that when he you know, kind of makes this more of a craft than a casual hobby. Like the rest of us, we don't do this every day. Whatever the rest of us do for our day job, we don't go home probably and casually watch something related to that except for the very small Jimmy Butler like group among us. So yeah, I don't worry a ton about that. I do want to see the engagement and not just see those you know, careless lapses where you know, he falls asleep with the wheel. I think those are kind of two different things. I don't think that he like hates basketball or anything. I think that's totally fair. And my last question he would be, do you see him playing at least, you know, out of the gate, a serious role where they're going to give him like, let's say, like a long rope to play and go through the motions, make mistakes, or do you think that they might try and bring him along more gradually, in part because I'm sure they want to be in the thick of that Western Conference playoff slash play in race. Yeah, I think that's that's kind of the ultimate question we have, right we don't know who in this team is gonna play where and how often, especially with you know, Russell and Rubio where you know, like, okay, well, Rubio's played a little off the ball, which you know is an ideal, but I understand he's grown as a player since he was last in Minnesota. Russell's played off the ball a little bit. You know, there's gonna be a lot of competition for minutes, and like you talked about, Malik Beasley just got a new deal. They're five minutes for him too. Josh U Kogi is going to fit in there somehow. I think what one weird rot roster, what weird lineup I have possibly heard was like oh Kobe at before or something that would I mean, he's got a lot of late. I think he has about a seven foot wing span at like six six or six five or something ridiculous, so he can do that. But so I think there are ways to get him into some creative lineups and maybe some more traditional lineups. But I think they do have the luxury, you know, if he's you know, I think if you only they really really know where he's at. I mean, you know, if he's struggling and you know it's like, okay, well we're gonna wreck this kid's confidence, then you know, they don't. They don't have to have him out there for thirty minutes a night, which is nice, but the thing like, yeah, he just needs to play through it, and you know, he just needs to fall on his face a few more times and pick himself up then like they can, Yeah, they can find places for him there too. So I think it's a good fit in that sense too. Even if you know, as we've said, like that isn't the most important thing with a draft pick. Yeah, so you sort of already touched upon like where I'm going with this, But so Cat and Dangelo Russell they only played together last season because of Kat missing the rest of the year. They played sixty one possessions together, which is very much not a lot and on paper, though, I don't you don't need to worry about their offensive fit. Do you think, though, after drafting Edwards, having Culver getting Rubio, that they've complicated that fit at all now by having so many people used to operating on wall or does that something that doesn't really concern this team? Yeah, it's I mean at some point, I mean it feels like there's got to be an odd man out with that, especially I think Culver, with his season not ever not being fully happy with the way that I think things went for him as a total last year. You know, that's be a lot of willingness to adapt and I think different ways of finding ways to keep him involved because he kind of feels like the on man out, which is odd to say about a guy who's just one year removed from being a lottery pick. That doesn't happen a lot. Yes, I think it's really hard to know, especially without having you know, scene training camp and heard about it and be like scrimmage lineups and or having any preseason yet. But I think we're gonna see a lot of really fast Sinatian stuff to kind of sort of make that fit work and toy with that. So what should the expectations be for Cover this season? It does seem, you know, he went through one season and it feels like a lot of just people if you're looking at like Twitter or even stuff that's being written or just out on him, And I'm wondering how much of that want has to do with just maybe the backdrop of how he was acquired where they gave up Sarich and what was that number nine or number eleven to get it and ended up being, and so like they just held him to a higher bar because he did shoot thirty eight percent from three over his final thirty games. On when I wrote this to you, I said not insignificant volume because it clearly wasn't like a ton And so I'm just wondering if that gives him when you're looking at the struggles he has to create separation on the ball anyway. I know they used him some at the one, Like does it just make it maybe more of a cleaner fit for him off the ball now that he has all these other creators around him. Yeah. I think that's one thing that I looked at with Edwards too, where you know, it's like because they have Russell and Rubio, you know these other guys, you know, point a learning point guard in the NBA is difficult, you know, just like playing up front is tough too, but learning how to run an offense against NBA point guards is really difficult. Parts, Like everyone is so good and so athletic, and there's so much to take in. But I think this is a way, like with Edwards, they can slow it down and say, hey, you're gonna learn this position this year, like this is your spot. You might handle the ball sometimes, but maybe you know, like Ulver just cuts and spots up and that works. I haven't I didn't totally, Like you know, I haven't looked really much into Culver shooting, like how he got a lot of those shots. But I think simplifying it and keeping it easy for him would be just a great way to build some confidence and kind of figure out too. Like you know, what they really have at him and you know where he fits a long term because you know, in theory, I mean, Joshua Kogi doesn't really ever strike me someone who's going to be an offensive player more than someone who's just great at leaking out in transition for a lob like that seems like something that Cookee can do or you know, points off steals and things that. But Culver seems like a guy who should be able to create more for himself. And I mean, it certainly seems like he has all the tools to do that. Just whether I guess we'll see that, you know, in the NBA, would depend, but there are definitely ways I think that they can carve out a role for him, especially you know, like we don't know what's going to happen this season. Yeah, and having all that depth, you know, could come in handy. I mean, you know, I'm a bit if anyone has a positive test, you know, and can't play, like there might be a lot of minutes for guys who aren't really expecting it. That's just a tough thing and evaluating these and he was you were, you know, to your point about the shot type that Culver was taking, like he was taking more catch and shoot looks during that time while I was looking it up. But like he his percentages were actually inflated by the unassisted three pointers because he hit those in small value. He went like a ridiculously high clip. But you mentioned an interesting point that I like, I don't know, you don't. I don't know how to juggle it when talking about team previews. But if someone has a positive COVID test and like misses two weeks that's under the current schedule, like eight games like that can really just like put an entire season on til especially if it's not just one player. And so maybe that's where the you know, I think there's something I guess quirky about the Timberwolves depth where it feels like there's still holes, but then there's also like a lot of overlaps somehow. But maybe that's not as big of a problem this year because you're gonna need that interchangeability or just body count more so than ever. Yeah, And I think that's the thing that Gerson Rosas has been trying to build in general, is just this really versatile, long athletic team that you know, it's really a group of basketball players. Again, than Bard said, he could play one through three. Josh Okogi can defend probably one through four pretty capably. See if all these wings that can do a lot in Culvers and not small, you know, there should be you know, the tools there for him to have that same versatility. So I think there's a lot to like in that sense. It doesn't feel like the Wolves have like the optimal front court partner for carl anth Towns yet the you know one hurting Gomez is but he's fine, but defensively, like that's not going to help, and so is do you think like that's part of Culver's development, is Hey, he played a bunch of one last year, but maybe we're going to see more of him at the four this year or is that not really something you think viable long term because you did just mention his size and so like he should be able I would think to hold up positionally there. But they also didn't really play him at the four pretty much at all last season. No, And yeah, I think it's yeah, I don't know, it's something that's gonna be interesting to figure out because I think right now, you know, obviously you know Ronde Hollis, Jefferson and Ed Davis those are kind of stopped yet pieces. I mean, I really like Ed Davis, but you know it's not like you know, he's a you know, this dynamic player. He's a fantastic role player. Yeah. I mean, if those guys can absorb you know, hurting go him as Ronde Hollis, Jefferson and Ed Davis, you know, can try to find some way to compliment there and not increase the need to do those more desperate lineups, like doing something like culver you know, guarding fours or something which I think maybe like in an emergency there probably wouldn't be you know, like a regular thing. And then I guess if they're considering Josh a Cogie at the four as well, that would probably limit his time there. I would be I'm an endless lot. I mean, this gets me pretty much in my next question, But starting lineups are we know they're arbitrary, but what do you think ends up being this one for at least the start of the season for this team, because there's sort of they're among the squads where it feels like it can go where they just don't. It's not set in stone, and like maybe they'll play matchups a little bit but do you think there's going to be like a five man combination they prioritize there to start the season, probably just start the season. That's that's hard to say because we kind of thought last year where you know, the lineup really changed night tonight, that seems to become more common overall. Like I haven't looked at data for this, but the Raptors do that a lot, where it's like so matchup based, especially it feels like in the front court now yeah, yeah, Like I mean, like the Raptors, you know, like you're having Lowry and Siaka and honybody you know, beyond that we'll see. But the walls, I think it could be kind of similar. You know, we're like, okay, Russell's starting, Towns is obviously starting, you know, and then I think it's really interesting there. I mean, do you have do you move do you start Russell at the two because he can and start Rubio or do you have Russell start up point guard and have you know, Okogee Beasley. You know, it's kind of hard to actually not to see Beasley in the starting lineup. So what Russell, I guess would be safe to say at least one of Rubio and Beasley will be starting, given like how much they're being paid at the moment. Yeah, I would think so, I don't think you're putting Beasley off the bench or Ruby off the bench. Yeah, at those, both of them at least off the bench, and then probably Okogi at the three, herding Gomez at the four and towns, which I don't really know if that gets you long term, but I imagine that we'll probably see that switch up quite a bit. That's probably the most traditional lineup though, that I could think of for them. I am interested to see like how it works with because you're right that Russell can play it too, and I feel like he and Ricky Rubio could kind of compliment each other nicely, where Danzel Russell has been a good enough catch and shoot guy throughout his career, and then you're putting him next to someone who is there's there's really like no such thing as a plus point guard defender, but Ricky Rubyo is like a really like disruptive defender, and that's you know, definitely someone that you want alongside Russell given his own defensive track records. Yeah, I still remember when off clip sounder is called Ricky Rubyo part of his gamblers anonymous for going for all these seals. I'll never forget that one. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. So it's okay if your answer here is the same as the lineup you just gave. But what do you think they're closing line up should be in tight games? Or is there maybe you know you already mentioned Josh Kogi at the four it was like maybe an offbeat lineup that you would like to see them test out this year independent of any time of the game. So I don't gosh, it would be It would be so much easier. I think if we knew what Anthony Edwards was going to be, right, I think that would really answer a lot of it. I think you had that Beasley on their hurting Gomez. I mean, he can stretch the floor, does bring a little bit of size towns obviously some This is what I struggled with Ricky Rubio's first stint. There are several times in late game situations where I think the Wolves are bad at closing out games in part because not like because of like what Ricky Rubio you know, does wrong necessarily just what his weaknesses are and that's his shot. And I think teams would rather dare Ricky Rubio to beat them in crunch time than let the league Beasley, you know, take that shot or get to the basket or put the ball in Karl Anthony Town's his hands. So teams would say off him and you know, double Kevin Love or someone you know who is actually more of a perimeter threat. And I think that's what I worry about with him now, because the shot in some cases that's improved a bit, but I don't think it's enough to where teams are gonna really fear it and stay home on him. So I don't think you want him in for that. So I think you want to find a way to bring in another guy and have Russell run the offense in the fourth quarter. Yeah, I think that makes sense because as you said, is shooting has improved, but like the numbers are different from reality because so last year he's forty one point four percent on catching shoot threes, which is a fantastic number, but there's an opportunity cost to those looks because, like you know, you're talking about his previous err in Minnesota, there's not a body near him, so they're doubling Kevin Love like and this isn't there, you know, cramping the lane. They're gonna make it harder for Russell, or they're gonna be you know, doubling towns and so just not what he does to the symmetry I guess of like the offense or like the defense and bodies like that is probably more hurtful than him shooting forty percent. I catch and shoot looks. I think, I I don't know how you necessarily flesh out their best you know, closing lineup. And again, it's a lot of its matchup base, but if you're looking at the most common one, I do think I really agree with you though, where he probably shouldn't be a part of it on a consistent basis. Yeah, And I mean it's you know, for the rest of the game, for you know, forty five minutes. It's probably fine to have him out there in most cases. But yeah, I think that's one situation where it's just so limited. And I think we've seen, you know, we're struggles as a finish or even getting you know, at the basket, like that's a real problem. And I mean I don't D'Angel Russell is by no means, you know, the most efficient player in the NBA, there was a lot that came out after the trade for Wiggins where it's like, hey, they're similarly inefficient, but I think that he's still more of a threat. Yeah, Like just the ability to hit threes off the dribble is like a it's a difference maker, even if he's only hitting them at like a thirty four percent clip. Right, exactly, what is the right now looking at this roster is currently constructive? What is the biggest gaping hole that they still need to address? And if it is, you know, the four spot, what comes after that? Yeah, I mean it's definitely the power forward spot. I think, you know, if like if this can be considered a hole, I think probably the glut of wings and you know, seeing like you know, are these all pieces that you can find playing time for or you know, is this you know where you could because the Garson process is not shy about, you know, rehoming a player if he can thinks he can find a better fit or better talent elsewhere. So I mean I would like to see him possible, you know that that's sorted out because it seems like for now that I mean, they're stocked in the backcourt and on the perimeter. I mean, we haven't even talked about Jake Layman, and Jake Layman is going to play this year and he's a six ten combo forward. They yeah, they're They're wings were like awkwardly sized too, where it's like, Okay, yeah, Jared Cover might be the size of a traditional wing, but he doesn't have the speed of one. And like you said, Jake Layman is just so so big, and he was playing well at the beginning of last year two before his injury, so maybe that's someone who can help. But they are kind of all over the place at like the two, three, four spots where there's so many different ways that they could go with it. But and like looking out from afar, like my perspective, I don't necessarily know like what's the best way to be or like what's the best makeup to be confident in, because while they do have a glut of wings, like how many of them can you count on to like have a two way impact where it's like there's gonna be a spacing trade off with Josha Kogie, there's gonna be a defensive trade off with lan Herning Gomez, And I don't even think he could really at this point, I don't think he should be playing the three at all, So like that's just that feels like a huge question for them as well. Yeah, it's it's really a unique thing, and I think it'll be a lot like last season where they look at it through the first half and then they decide, you know, all right, this isn't working. And maybe they don't. I don't think you want to overhaul your roster to the extreme that they did last winter, But I don't think that they'll be shy to you know, if I would say, Okay, this piece fits, this doesn't fit. What can we do to find something that's we think is better. So you do think and this was something I mentioned as an example later on when I send you an ali but like, do you do think there's a chance then that they do shake things up mid season again, like not to necessarily the extent where they went all in on D'Angel Russell last year, but given out where this team is where I guess like you still expect them to be super aggressive with, as you said, rehoming players if they don't look like they fit. Yeah, that's the one thing with this front office that I've kind of realized that, you know, they're very aggressive, and I think it's such a departure from the path. Like I saw one tweet. I can't remember who it was. It was from a wolves kind that I wasn't familiar with, and I wish I say the tweet because I've referenced it so many times, but it was like Glenn Taylor runs the Timberwold's like a family business, and Rosa's will literally trade anyone you can do better. It's contrast. Yeah, So, I mean so I fully believe that they're always looking at options to make the team better. I know every team says that, but I do imagine that they are getting involved in as many calls as they can to see, you know, if there's any way to make the move. Obviously, you know, owing that pick to Golden State is hangs over a little bit, But yeah, I do expect that they'd have their ear to the ground, especially if you know, you look at this and you're like, this roster doesn't make the most sense together and something kind of has to give, may need to be shuffled. Unless you know, all these players turn into multi positional marvels and it's you already identify culverts potentially if the odd man out, but it's the one that sort of tips the scales, is like, it's the culver Edwards Beasley, like Trio being here where it's okay, they're they're they're like all wings, I guess, but like Beasley really I almost look at him as like a one position guy who should be playing the two. And then that's going to get in the way of some rustle minutes potentially if you want him to play with Rubio and you don't want him defending threes. What does Anthony Edwards do? Like defensively, he's not you know, looking at his size, like is he gonna be able to match up with some of the bigger wings easily? And Edwards are pretty similar at the size too. I think they're both six five. Yeah, it does seem like Edwards is I don't know if the world will be stronger, but like has more girth to his defensive stance, where Beasley has always looked like a guy when you look at his explosion, like, oh, he should be good on defense, and then he's like not really so right that just makes awkward. And then there's Culver where it's like oh, he You know, I actually he should play the four because it feels like he has the size to do that. But does he actually had the physical tools to like defend these bigger, quicker wings, And so it seems like that Trio is going to need that at least one of them long term, if not in the short term, is going to end up being moved. Yeah, and I kind of look almost too. I know, we just talked about, you know, how important no Coobi is because of his size, but you know, he's also the one guy this ADMI administration regime didn't select. He's one of the one holdover from the previous management. So I think that he's an interesting guy to watch. I know a lot of newer gms aren't as beholding to other guys's choices, so I think he's interesting to watch just for that reason. Although I do agree with you because of his versatility, you can find more places for him than you can maybe like Malik Beasley. Yeah, there's and the other thing with him too is he's just so cheap and has the team option for this season after this one, So for under seven million, you can get two years of josh A. Coogan. I don't know why you wouldn't, like, I know, he's not like doesn't have a jumper right now, which is what he can do for you defensively, I would say across like three to four positions is definitely worth that money and much more. Yeah, yeah, definitely, so is it? And you mentioned that the pick that they owe a Golden State Top three protected this year, it does sort of loom over their direction. Do you do you think then it's fair to say that they've decided they're more when now than not, or is there still an element of TBD here where they might be willing to I'm not going to say steer in to the skid if things don't pan out according to plan, but they're not going into this saying like it's playoff or bust for us, like that's why we got D'Angelo Russell, that's why we paid for Malik Beasley. Well, so I think there's yeah, that's kind of a competient thought. I mean, you know part of it too, it's like your conference is just so good, right, you know, maybe you know the Grizzlies there a young team. I mean, I don't think you can rely too much on young teams. And they looked promising, but you know, maybe they fall out, maybe the Rockets trade hard into the East or something. You know, those things are kind of those things are factors that could determine, you know, where they wind up falling. But I do think that they're going for it. I do think, you know, like not that this is not reported, there is nothing out there with Caronathony Towns, but you look at the NBA landscape where you know, he's the type of player that you hear the romans about like oh yeah, that guy wants to go somewhere else and you know this or that, and it's like so, you know, you do have to be winning, you know, to keep or least going in a positive direction to keep these guys happy, right, you know, I don't want to you know, keep it talent l Towns around. You know, he's really the piece that makes this whole thing work. Like D'Angel russell led team, that's not a that's not the happy place, that's not the good play. You know, Like I like Russell in some cases, but you know, he has his own flaws. And I mean, of course there's always the way that you know, guys get better and improve, But like this you know, you need to win to show Towns that, like, yeah, you can have everything you want here, you can be all NBA. You can you know, reach the playoffs in Minnesota. I think that's an important thing to show him too. Yeah, it's uh, it's to me Carlins Towns has reached the level where he's so good, like I don't have I didn't have any questions about him to throw your way, like he's to me, he's like top ten, top twelve in a league right now. He's only twenty five. I know people can make fun of his like defensive motor at times and then obviously some of his defensive reads, but like, he's such a monster on the offensive end with all he can do. And I know it was only a thirty five game sample last year, but he also average like four point four assists per game really quietly, and so he's so dominant already that I do feel like there's this And I would argue that the you know, the pick they give up the Golden State would imply the sense of urgency. But it doesn't really matter how many years he has left on his contract. If you have this top ten, top twelve player right now, you want to be certainly in the mix for a playoff spot no matter how you know, Hillacious the West might be. Yeah, and I think you know, New Orleans saw that. I mean, Del Dam's got a lot of criticism, but from the day they drafted Anthony Davis. It's probably not the best comparison to make, but you know, from the day they drafted him, they traded for Ryan Anderson, they traded for Eric Gordon. They got all these guys thinking like, yeah, we gotta win, you know, like this guy is gonna be phenomenal, We want to go places, and like but I think that's the mindset that you have to have, and like, yeah, sometimes you get unlucky and guys are hurt. Yeah, like maybe don't give Omrashik five years like that. I mean, in any scenario, that's a good idea, but you have to think have that mindset, you know, and at least show that you're moving in a positive direction, because yeah, like there's no real incentive for this team to lose. But I do think that the idea of having that play in tournament where you're like, well, maybe we don't get to eight, we just gotta get to tenth and then once we get to tenth, we just gotta win, whether two or three in a row, and then you're in. I mean, like that's exciting. That's you know, some more hope than you had in previous years, where by February or January or sooner, like you knew that it was pointless and you were just watching for the sake of watching. Yeah, that the play in tournament. I'm still not sure whether I like it or not. I think that the nine or ten seeds should have to win, probably more than twice to get in, like once they face the higher seed, like who every win's a nine ten game. I feel like should have to beat seven or eight twice rather than just beating them once. But it supports everything that you just said, and it changes the context of how we view teams that are in the mix for things, where the Timberwolves can can like really feel I don't know if you want to say feel really good, but they're going to consider themselves within that fracas that's chasing the one of the top ten spots. And then it's like at the same time, when you look at the West still there's only one team so far, let's just remove themselves from that conversation in the Oklahoma City Thunder, and so you're still in this like fourteen team tussle, and that's where things get so difficult to evaluate. Yeah, exactly, And you know it's going to be really interesting, I think, to see how teams respond to this. And you know, I think the one thing that I wish with the not to get too much on a tangent, but I think one thing I would like to see, you know, like if the seventh seed has like an eight game lead, like don't don't have them like lose back to back games and it's like, well that was for nothing. You know, like that sucks. That's not something that people want to see. And you know, if the seventh team is the seventh seed in the West, is probably gonna be pretty good and the team that people I want to see in the playoffs. I think that's the only concern that I really have with it. But I do like the idea of adding you know, steaks for you know, just about everybody. Yeah, there's like, so let's let's use this best year as an example. The seventh seed Mavericks were seven and a half games better than the eight seed Portland Trailblazers, and they were eight games better than both the Suns and Grizzlies, who were nine and ten. And so it's like the idea of them if they have no injuries, like if you know, if the reason they lost is because Luca don Chich was done for the season at that point or something like, then I guess my sympathy is limited because I don't want to watch a Dontchage list Dallas Mavericks in the playoffs. But I totally get what you're saying if I was the seventh seed or even the eight seed, like they are gonna be years where in the West, certainly, like the eight seed is just going to be so much better than the nine and the ten seeds, and so it feels like there might need to be some tweaking done there. Yeah, And I guess they'll see, you know, how it goes, you know, trying to be something that they had just over time. You know, I'm sure we'll have a lot of our our favorite things in sports where we overreact to make sweeping, real changes to one event, right. Yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to see how they navigate that. But I guess the other side of that is like, Okay, if you really are you know, four or five, six, seven, eight games, better, like just go beat them. Don't lease two guys in a row. You know, that's a That's also a fair point though, Like if your full strength and you lose to the you know, you lose two games against what are supposed to be inferior teams. I think that's that's also a fairly fair stance. I know this is this is a tough question now, and you can. I said that you could interpretever you want, Like if you're baking in that you think there's gonna be a shake up or that they're gonna do that's something happens in middle of season. But what's a realistic win target for this team and place to finish within the Western Conference this season? Oh gosh, I wish I saw like U seventy two season adjusted schedule. I mean, you can give me the eighty two game equivalent. I have my sheet here that I'll plug. So but yeah, yeah, that's screwed up everything I looked at over unders. At one point I was like, I don't even know how to like, what does thirty six point five mean in a seventy two games season. Yeah, so it's like, what a five hundred team. That's okay, So this team is probably not a five hundred team unless a lot of other stuff goes wrong for everyone else. Let's see. So I'll do it in eighty two game season because that's how my brain is gonna work perfect. You know, if they go from nineteen and sixty five ish games last season, sard So if they were nineteen last season would have been the equivalent of twenty two overall. Oh yeah, they got to be better than that, you know. I feel like, yeah, that's a really tough question. I mean, I don't think it's out of the question for them to win thirty, But I could also very much not see them winning thirty games. That feels like a like a good number. So thirty would be like thirty four over the course from eighty two game season, and so that's less. That's fewer than a fifteen win jumps because they only played and I probably even did their calculations around the other one because I forgot that they weren't among the teams that were in the bubble. So the adjustin's there, But thirty four like like for me personally, but like thirty four to thirty nine like feels like, oh it equipped like looking at eighty two games, thirty four to thirty nine like that pace feels like where they're at. Which if that happens is if they're comfortably under five hundred, let's say, And is that a failure for them or is it just like again, they still so much equity in this youngsters that we have to do better, do a better job of evaluating their future. Independent of the move for D'Angelo Russell that they made. It's just it's so wonky because they have these two players on max contracts already. Well and I mean, I think the thing that's easy to forget and I just even forgot, you know for a moment now, Like we didn't really see Karl Anthony Towns last year. So you know, obviously, getting kar Anthony Town's back for you know, the majority of year games, it's going to make a difference. I think having someone who can run this second unit, you know, is going to make a difference. Yeah, So all these little things I think, you know, that could add up to make a big impact. You know, So maybe thirty four to thirty nine is probably right on the money. Somewhere in there, which I felt like, you know, it's probably part for you know, a lot of like a lot of the old Ricky Rubio teams, But unlike those teams, it feels like that this could just be a stepping stone to something better. Do you think there's a feasible path like without disaster striking for the rest of the West, Like there will verily be two to three teams that I think or you know, one or two teams more that pull out of it. Let's say the Timberwolves aren't one of them. They're fairly healthy. Do you think there's like a feasible path to them getting over five hundred this year? Or is that just really not something you envisioned being in the cards? So it's definitely not an expectation. I mean, I think you see if you know, you know, if like here's the other thing too, I think that we overlook a lot. I know that, Like I remember when who was coaching the team at the time. Maybe it was Sam Mitchell, maybe it was early Tom Thibodeaux. I'm just talking about like one way to you know, like easy way to add shooting. It's just make the guys that you already have better, you don't have to go out and do all those things. So let's say Derek Culver, you know he is really a thirty five to forty percent shooter. That's great. You just made your team a lot more better, a lot more better, a lot better. And same goes for the other guys having the roster too, like so they're especially when you're a young team, I think there's always the chance for that jump to happen. Like, I mean, I have a lot of us, Like we liked Pascal Siaka and all of a sudden he became a twenty five point per game guy overnight. Like I'm not saying that's what I expect here, but young players like you never really know you know when their moment is gonna come, and you know it's you never really know what that's gonna look like either. So you know, we all set to see, you know, what guys have been able to do. And I think it's gonna be interesting to see what a nine month layoff does to this team, because I really that's the one drawback because you had the league's worst teams only able to scrimmage against each other and didn't get to you know, have those live rounds the other you know, the better two thirds of the league did so as soon there's no leg there and guys got better, and you know, Karl Anthony Towns as Karl Anthony Towns, Like I think, yeah, there's probably definitely some reason to think that they could you know, push five hundred. Yeah. And the thing that I didn't even like that thing compute for me until you just said, is it's going to end up being from an NBA game, like more than a ten month layoff for Clinton Towns. That's absurd. Is there anything that I didn't ask you you wanted to talk about something that's undercovered about this team? Do you have any you know, very strong takes on Jake Layman or are you going to see jat Vanderbilt this year? He's like the siren song of mine. Just anything I missed that or didn't get to that you want to talk about, man, I feel like we've covered a lot of ground on this. Yeah. Like I wrote about Jake Laman, I didn't really have strong Jake Layman opinions. I'm like, yeah, he's a guy, like he should able to shoot better. He shot well in college, Like, yeah, what is he's at like sub thirty percent for his career. It's really bad. And he doesn't play a lot. I know for guys like inconsistent playing time makes such a difference. But yeah, like it should be better than it is. Like, you know, typically guys who shoot well in college, you know, are decent free throw shooters should shoot better than thirty percent in three in the NBA. Yeah, do you think that he's that we see, Like, is he gonna be like a like a you know, a fifteen twenty minute per game player for this team right off the bat? Because I know he was there last year, but obviously the you know, the cosmetic makeup of the roster has changed since since last season. Yeah. I wonder if it all depends on how things look in training camp, because I think that having that familiarity with the team in the system is probably something that favors him a little bit and being able to adapt to that. I don't think he was there when A. Davis was there, but I mean there's a lot of guys here who are familiar with the ad Vanderpool system, you know, defensively, I want to see how that kind of comes together. Although it didn't really happen last year, Like I wrote about this to Allen krab trade, like you know, they told us then when they traded for him, they were like, oh, yeah, he's familiar with you know, David Vanterpool and they go back and you know, like definitili area is going to help him a lot. We think we could turn him around and you know, who knows, you know, maybe he's a piece of the future. It's like that disaster, like he played two games and looked horrible before they just I think, just waived him. So I think, you know, we should hopefully see you know, some if this team can maintain consistency together and actually you know, start to gell. I think that, you know, we'll say a lot can you give? Can you play? Kate? My appetite for Jared Vanderbilt takes it all. Do you think that he gets a shot to fill any of those four minutes this year? Hey, they might. You know, everyone's gonna need bodies at some point. It's gonna be a weird season. You know that the Timberwols don't have a lot of firm answers on there. I feel like, well, you know, you have a that like Ronde Hollis, Jefferson and Ed Davis, but those guys aren't ground forever, so you know, if he can shine in the moments that he does get and you know, this is also a really you know, accelerated season in terms of you know, how many games and however many days, so you know, the guys are gonna need rest. Unfortunately, guys are gonna get hurt. So there's gonna be there shouldn't be opportunity for him somewhere along the Yeah, I wasn't I don't want to use the word unhappy about the archj signing, but I was hopeful that just because Jared Vanderbilt like plays with this unhinged motor where he just covers a ton of ground and it's not necessarily disciplined ground. But I just love like from what I've seen of him, I love watching him, and so I thought he was going to get a real chance. But they resigned one her and Gomez, they have Ronnie Alis Jefferson, they get at Davis. So I was a little bit disappointed just because I wanted to see him more so I'm hopeful that he gets to see the floor for good reasons. Yes, exactly, Derek, thank you so much for doing this. With me as usual. It's become basically an annual thing. I appreciate you giving us like an hour of your time. If you guys are not following Derek on Twitter, please remedy that immediately. He is at Derek James NBA spelled exactly as it sounds. I always loved those easy to say Twitter handles, and as mentioned at the top, he covers the Minnesota timber Wolves for the Wolves along a Wolf among Wolves blog and Kane's hoopis and he also covers the Seattle storm for the next Derek once more. Thank you so much again, and I think, as you've come to know at this point, you could rest as short that I'm definitely going to be bothering you again in the future. You know what, I won't mind. Thanks again and take care. Thank you,