WEBVTT

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You are listening to the IFH podcast
Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting

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podcasts, just go to IFAH podcast
network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof

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Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three zero
four. Yeah, I didn't get into

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Sundance either. Anonymous broadcasting from a
dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we

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really should be working on that next
draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,

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showing you the craft and business of
screenwriting while teaching you how to make your

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screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to

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another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex

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Ferrari. Now, today's show is
sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now,

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unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof
Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of

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head on over to cover my Screenplay
dot Com. Enjoy today's episode with

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guest host Dave Bullis, the founder
of Zero Draft thirty is actually the guest

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on this week's podcast, who is
a screenwriter and founder of one of the

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most popular screenwriting blogs, Going a
Story, which is also the official blog

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of the Blacklist. He also reins
also runs screenwriting Masterclass, and he's also

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an instructor, which we're going to
get into as well, and without further

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ado, with guests Scott Myers.
You know, my guiding light through most

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of my life has been Joseph Campbell
and that simple little phrase, follow your

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bliss. Find that thing that you
are passionate about, that energizes you,

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that you feel you have a talent
for and creatively, I've just always done

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that. And one of the things
along the way was I discovered teaching while

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I was writing. I'd go and
do these presentations be invited and people say,

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hey, man, you're really good
at this, maybe you should teach.

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So that started with teaching online through
UCLA Extension. And then when we

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moved to North Carolina where I was
a television producer for a production company there

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called Trailblazer Studios for eight years,
I started teaching one class semester at UNC

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Chapel Hill in the writing for Screening
Stage program, which was great. And

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then the DePaul University School of Cinematic
Arts here in Chicago came to know me.

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One of my colleagues now here,
Brad Riddell, who's a working screenwriter

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and had four movies made. He's
now an associate professor here at at the

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program and the chair of our program
screenwriting program, And he got in touch

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with me because he knew about my
blog. He was a huge fan of

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the blog. So we started talking
and very very exciting things going on at

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De Paul. It's a fast growing
school with incredible facilities. The school has

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three sound stages that it rents for
the students at the largest studio system studio

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facility outside of Los Angeles and North
America. There's the same facility where all

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the Chicago fire Chicago, Hope.
All those shows are filmed. Empire was

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filmed, There are lots of movies
are filmed there. So the students not

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only get a chance to actually get
hands on experience making movies like right away,

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a very diy spirit here at the
school. They have incredible gear and

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these sound stages and a three time
grip truck. They are also segue into

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working for these productions for NBC and
whatnot. So that combined with the fact

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that the faculty here is tremendous,
the support from the administration is outstanding.

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The school is extremely diverse. A
lot of schools talk about, well we

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want to you know, we're into
inclusion, we want to diverse student bodies.

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Well, DePaul actually has that.
I mean my current MFA cohort,

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the group that's going to be graduating
in twenty nineteen. That MFA group is

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fifty percent non white and over fifty
percent women, And it's really exciting to

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work with people who have diverse backgrounds
and to be able to help them find

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their voice and facilitate their writing process. So, circling back to how I

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got here, it was just one
of those things you put yourself out there,

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you do something that you are passionate
about. And as Campbell says,

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the universe will open doors where there
used to be walls. And the Paul

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invited me to come here and apply
for the position, and I got it,

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and I moved here two years ago, and I love it. It's

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just a tremendous place to be and
very exciting working with these students. You

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know during the application process that did
you know they ask any sort of like

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questions about production or anything like that, like how you would handle something,

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because I mean, I imagine you
you were kind of I mean not just

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about screenwriting, so I imagine you
you kind of have your hands and you

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wear a lot of hats. As
what I'm trying to say, Oh yeah,

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I wear a lot of hats.
And the great thing about the Paul

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School Cinematic Arts is that we've got
eight eight areas of concentration. So there's

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screenwriting, there's directing, there's creative
producing, there's all sorts of a post

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there's an animation group that's terrific.
So we we don't have a silo system.

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We work together. Again, the
students are I had a freshman last

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year. He was like three weeks
in. I mean all my students one

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on one and all my classes.
I just think that's important to do.

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And I was saying, well,
I hope you take advantage of your time

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here because it's it's really amazing that
you have all these facilities and resources to

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go out and make these short films. He said, I'm already making one

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three weeks in. He's already making
one. So there's a lot of communication

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between the directors and the writers.
We have meetings every quarter whereby students get

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together in this big group and they
pitched these projects to each other and it's

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incredibly collaborative things. So yes,
I'm involved with helping them with the scripting

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thing, helping them with their edits, helping them with some of the directing

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choices they're making. Is I oversee
some other thesis projects and whatnot? You

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know, I should note that just
recently DePaul Hollywood Reporter came out with their

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top twenty five film schools, and
DePaul's thirteen in that list and rising clearly

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the number one film school in the
Midwest. We aspire to be more than

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that variety. We made that list
of the top film schools. So it's

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a it's a really exciting place to
be and we're having students go to La

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now and shoot some success. So
yeah, one of the reasons I enjoyed

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being here is that I get a
chance to wear a lot of hats and

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work with students in a lot of
different ways. So, you know,

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Scott, you mentioned the student that
that, you know, three weeks in

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he was already shooting something or planning
to shoot something. Do you ever have

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the opposite? I mean, he
is there ever a student who shows up

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and just says, you know,
uh, you know, maybe they start

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dragging their feet, or they have
to kind of like say, how are

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you hey, aren't you going to
make something? Do you ever have that?

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Uh? Yeah? There are students
who, you know, and I

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don't you know, I don't denigrate
them at all. If they come here

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and they just want to be writers, you know, or perhaps they just

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want to work in post, you
know, in visual effects, they don't

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want to go out and do production, you know. Having done some of

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that, I think I agree pretty
much with what William Goldman said when he

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said paraphrasing here, he said,
the first day, the most exciting day

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of a screenwriter's life is a first
day on a set on a movie set.

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The most boring day in a screenwriter's
life is the second day in the

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movie set, you know, because
it's a lot of setup and just waiting

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her out for things, you know. So I found that when I was

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doing TV, producing out in the
field and whatnot, it was okay,

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I didn't really enjoy it that much. I really enjoy more working. So

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there are students who I respect that, But then there are other students who

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have to be encouraged, who they
have a creative idea and they've got a

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good visual sense of acuity and say, okay, come on, yes,

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get out there, try it.
There's no there's no downside here. It's

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not like if you make a short
film and it stinks, well, you've

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learned a lot. There's things that
you can only learn, but being out

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in the field and making movies,
you just can't learn it all by sitting

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in a room writing. And so
I encourage people to, you know,

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all my writers that I work with, whether it's through to Paul or through

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a screenwriting masterclass, or interfacing with
my blog or going up to these conferences

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and festivals I've been going to more
frequently now, I encourage them to go

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make stuff. This is a time
right now where with everything going on and

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the second Golden age of TV or
peak TV and digital filmmaking where content is

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King, Queen, Prince, duke
whatever, and who is responsible for creating

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that content, for coming up with
that stuff at the inception stage its writers.

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And so this is a fantastic opportunity
for people who are creative and I

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have a good way with words and
know how to write and craft stories.

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We'll be right back a word from
our sponsor and now back to the show

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to do that and then see if
they have a directorial shops. That way,

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you can control your material a lot
more so. Yeah, I have

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students who run the gamut, you
know. I have students that come in

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and you know, many of them
have they can name for you every single

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shot in a Martin Scorsese movie,
you know. I mean, I've had

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those kind of students. And I
have students who come in who their parents,

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you know, have them majoring in
economics or business or whatnot, but

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they're creative, and so they come
in here and they can take a double

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major in screenwriting, a BFA or
a BA or even a minor, you

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know, and to see them light
up and see them really grow creatively,

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and maybe it's only an advocation for
them moving forward and not a vocation.

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Well that's great. At least they've
discovered something that they're passionate about and they

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have a talent for and they can
do that and uh and have them urture

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and fuller life. You know,
I thought you were going to say the

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William Goldman quote nobody knows anything.
So yeah, well that's true. I

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mean, oh, we're seeing this
right now, aren't we, Dave,

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Like, you know, up until
about a year ago, it was like,

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oh, rom coms, you're dead, nobody wants to see romantic comedies.

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Rich Crazy Rich Asians comes out,
boom, three of them, Green

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Litton one week, you know,
a spec Script Singles Day, the sequel

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to Crazy Rich Asians, and a
K pop projects in Korea. So you

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know, um, now we're seeing
articles about how Crazy Rich Asians has resurrected

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the rom com So people when they
say these things, you know, they

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don't understand the cyclical nature of the
business. Um and and yeah, so

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I think that's probably true. Golden
says, nobody knows anything. Yeah,

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it's kind of like how zombies.
Um, we're always you know, considered

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played out or what have you.
And then the Walking Dead came around and

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now suddenly they're you know, they
were cool again, and then Ben then

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you know, now let's cool over
again. Well, I'll tell you another

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thing, because you know, you
know me, I tracked the specscript market.

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I've been tracking it since well,
I broke into nineteen eighty seven by

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selling a K nine and then really
started an earnest to track it in eighty

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nine ninety. So my blog going
to the story, you can go and

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see that I got over two thousand
specscript deals annotated. They're dating back to

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nineteen ninety one and up through two
thousand and fourteen. Not one time in

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the entire period of tracking specscript market
during the twenty se nine years of doing

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that was drama in the top three
in terms of genre sales. It was

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always comedy, action or thriller always, and then for the last three years

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the number one genre in the spec
script market has been dramas. Again,

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nobody knows anything, so we're in
a new cycle here and trying to interpret

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that's quite interesting. I think part
of it is that people have grown up

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with reality TV a whole generation and
so they're used to and interested in quote

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unquote real people, and so in
the case of historical dramas, they actually

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are like real people. I think
part of it is nostalgia. We're a

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wash in nostalgia right now, and
so when they see a picture, you

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know, like a script that was
on the top of the Blacklist of years

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back about Madonna or before that,
about Michael Jackson told from the perspective of

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his pet mockey Bubbles. You know, those type of historical dramas they hit

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there, they hit on a you
know where the reader or the viewer knows

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of them. It's the nostalgic And
I think the final thing really going on

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there is just the studios are way
into pre branded content. You know,

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they want content that people will know
about, and so historical figures, you

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know, is a way of doing
that because people will know about a figure

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in the past, you know.
So so yeah, it's it's a it's

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a it's a fascinating time. We
really is just an interesting time right now,

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and it's great to be a creator
in that type of environment. So,

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so Scott like, what what have
you read any like unpublished or I'm

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sorry unpublished? Have you read any
any unproduced screenplays recently that have just like

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floored you. Yes, I just
got done doing my twelfth Blacklist feature writers

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Lab in LA got back about two
weeks ago, and there were six projects

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and all of them were really good, and a couple of them were just,

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uh, we're you know. One
of them was like almost ready to

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go. I mean, there's some
rewriting they could do on it. You

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could totally see it. It's a
genre peace elevator, genre piece. And

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so yes, you know, there's
there's great material out there now. The

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spec script market is down this year, and it's compared to last year,

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and last year was down compared to
the previous year, and I think in

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large part that's due to the studios. Um you know, again you're just

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relying on pre branded content, franchise
material and whatnot. But I still believe

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this to be true that if you
write a great script, it'll find its

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way. Someone's going to respond to
that. And so yeah, there's great

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material out there. You know.
I've got students here written scripts that they'll

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need to rewrite them, but they
got strong concepts, great character execution.

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So yeah, there's still some really
good content being made that's the key.

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It's just you write a great script. So so let's talk about that.

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You know, when you're working with
students, you know, what are some

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of the advice that you give to
these college students. Well, the first

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thing is to remind them constantly that
movies are primarily a visual medium. There

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are some who will tend to rely
too much on dialogue to drive the action.

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Not to say that dialogue's bad,
it isn't, but for certain genres

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action, comedy, depending upon the
type of comedy that's thriller, science fiction,

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fantasy, those type of movies really
lend themselves to visual storytelling. And

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that's the type of thing that Hollywood
does better than anybody else in the world,

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you know, visual storytelling. And
so I remind them that. Look,

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for the first three decades of movies
existence, there was no dialogue.

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It was silent films. Yeah,
we have those little inner titles, but

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largely it was just visuals. And
in some ways, we're circling back to

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that kind of paradigm, I think
because now with the box office receipts,

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the revenues seventy to seventy five percent
of those generated by the international markets,

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whereas a joke a line of dialogue. An exchange of dialogue may not translate

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that well from say the United States
to China or Brazil or Germany or whatnot.

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Someone slipping out of an antipedal and
falling on their asses universally funny.

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So that's the first thing I hammer
with them, like every quarter, is,

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you know, it's a visual medium. You've got to think visually.

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You know, whenever you start to
construct a scene, that's your starting point

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is a visual storytelling. I'd also
say this because you know, I stay

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on top of the business. It's
weird that I'm you know, I'm more

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connected now in Hollywood than I ever
was when I live to and a half

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miles east of twentieth century Fox because
of my blog. You know, is

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there are several things going on relative
to cultural trends and technological developments. The

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generation right now, the young general, young people you know up through the

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millennials, but these eighteen year olds
up to that they have seen, heard,

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or read exponentially more stories than previous
generations. If you consider stories to

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be snapchat conversations and text conversations and
YouTube videos that sort of thing, and

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those are stories, you know,
at the beginning middle end many of them,

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and so they just intuitively know story
on a level that I think previous

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generations don't. So, for example, they don't need as much exposition now

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as it used to be, which
is why I think you've seen this shift

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back in the eighties when I broke
in what is now what used to be

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the end of act one then is
now the middle of act one. You

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just don't need all that setup.
Get into the story and get going.

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And that's another thing because young people
nowadays are so used to getting their content

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when they want it, how they
want it now now that another thing I

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take to teach my students is get
into the story. Drop them in.

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There's a Latin phrase in media race, drop them into the middle. Just

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put them in there. They want
that type of thing. They want to

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get into the story. They may
not even need to know that much about

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the characters. You think about movies
like X, Mackina or Lucy. There's

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a couple of movies that come into
mind, you don't barely anything about the

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protagonist. Within two to three minutes, boom, they're into the plot.

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And so I think young audience is
kind of like that. We'll be right

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back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show,

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Like, Okay, as long as
I'm not confused, let's say I'm here

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with this character and we're into the
action, I'm going to find out all

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that exposition along the way, not
sort of lay it out up front like

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we we traditionally used to do.
So there are definitely some things going on

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in terms of technology and cultural mindset
that you know, we need to be

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cognizant of as screenwriters, and I
try to pass that along to my students.

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So when when you mentioned that,
you know, the the it used

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to be in the eighties, the
end of act one is now the middle

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of act one, do you sort
of so so let me ask you this,

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let me kind of rephrase that my
question. Do you kind of think

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like you know, usually in the
Hero's Journey with Joseph Campbell, you know,

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there's a there's the call to action, and then there's the refusal of

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the call. Don't you think that
the refusal of that call sometimes can be

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a little who is maybe not needed? And here's what I mean by that.

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You know, if you go to
see like a road trip movie nowadays,

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you already know the going on the
road trip. So is there really

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any need to have a refusal of
the call? Because I mean, hell,

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the you know that then being on
the road is the whole reason that

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brought you into the theater, do
you know what I mean? Well,

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that's you're raising an interesting point,
Dave, which is that the awareness level

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of people going into movies is such
based on trailers and the inundation of marketing,

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and I think that does have an
impact. So if you know that

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this is a road picture, do
you really need to spend twenty five pages

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setting it up? No, you
don't, you know, You're just you're

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just gonna You're gonna bore the younger
generation. They just they just want things

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to I think, in their storytelling
to move much more quickly. So in

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terms of the refusal to call,
well, this gets into a bigger area.

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And this is another thing that I
hammer my students on, which is

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that you've got to ground your story
crafting process in the characters and so in

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particularly the protagonist. And so if
you question, for you know, if

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you were like a student that came
in and said, I don't know whether

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I should have a refusal of the
call to adventure with this character or not.

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You know, I would say,
well, don't look at it from

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outside the story universe. Go inside
the story universe and get to know that

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character. Are they the type of
individual that would refuse or are they the

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type of individual who would leap at
the opportunity. You really need to ground

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the storytelling and what I call the
protagonist's journey. In fact, I'm working

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up a book proposal right now.
I was approached by a publishing company to

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write a potential textbook in which we
invert the way we look at I think

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typically, or at least the way
that kind of floats around in the screenplay

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universe about how to approach story structure. So much of the emphasis is on

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plot and on these page counts and
whatnot, which I think is a rather

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wrongheaded way of approaching it. Much
better to go at it by immersing yourself

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and engage in the story universe and
engaging yourself with all the characters, in

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particularly the protagonist. The protagonists goal, the protagonists want and need. All

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that stuff basically sets the spine of
the story. And so how much better

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to come to the plot by working
with the character and determine it's their story.

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You know, it's their fate.
I call it the narrative imperative.

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That story that happens to the protagonist. If it happened two weeks ago in

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their life or a month from now, it would be a different story.

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It's happening right now. There's a
reason why you type fade in at this

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moment with that story. And there's
a reason why that character intersects with other

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characters, the specific set of chas
as they go along. There's a reason

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why those events happen and Acts one, two, and three because it's facilitating

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the protagonist transformation that journey. Again, this is inverting the idea as opposed

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to looking at the plot. First, look at the plot as a way

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of facilitating, servicing, and supporting
the protagonist transformation. Joseph Campbell said,

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the whole point of the hero's journey
is transformation. And so that's another big

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area that I focus on with my
students. We do a ton of work

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on character development. In fact,
I created a class here called story development,

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and we spend it's an entire quarter
working with characters and out of that

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working up an outline. So then
you move into writing a first draft.

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So back to your question, I
mean this thing about whether there's a refusal

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to call any of that stuff.
You have to be mindful of cultural trends

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and audiences in terms of their interests
and predilection. But everything needs to be

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grounded and working with the characters as
far as I'm concerned, I mean,

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character equals plot, and so let's
put some flesh on the bones there and

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actually make that come to fruition.
Is it when you see these students come

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in or even when you're working online
with different people, do you see a

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tendency to do that formula sort of
plot points? Well, there are some

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books and you know them, I
won't name them that are that you know

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that that have very specific paradigms,
um and um. You know, I

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just have I have concerns about that. I have concerns about that multiple levels.

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If you reduce screenplays to you know, these specific sort of page counts,

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this needs to happen here and this
needs to happen there. You're it's

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problematic on several fronts. One,
it demeans the craft. It makes it

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look like we're dealing with which jets
as opposed to the creative effort and the

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creative skill and talent. That's required
to write a rich story with multidimensional characters,

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surprising twists and turns and all the
rest. You know, that requires

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creativity. If you're out there espousing
something, then you have a software system

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that you can plug things into and
come out with a paradigm or whatever,

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then that demeans the craft. And
that extends to the experience of professional screenwriters

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working in Hollywood right now. If
you're studio executive who maybe got an MBA

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from Stanford or Harvard, and you
meet with them and you and they're giving

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you script notes and they say,
well, I'm sorry, but you're Act

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one ends too late. You know, it needs to break into Act two

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on twenty five. Well, if
that's all they know about story, is

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that sort of formulaic approach to screenwriting, then why do we end up with

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so many formulaic script movies. It's
because of that type of thinking. So

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I think that any attempt to codify
some sort of so called rules or these

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kind of formulas is really working at
counter purposes to what it should be,

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which is a true creative effort.
And that again, lean into the characters

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see where they take you. You
know, it's exciting to see scripts like

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A Quiet Place. Did you read
the script A Quiet Place? Or you've

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seen the movie, right, probably, David, Yeah, I seen the

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movie. I didn't read the screenplay. Well, you know, it breaks

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like so many of the so called
rules. I think it's like sixty eight

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pages long. They include photographs and
images, they mess around with fun.

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I've actually interviewed those guys and they're
actually coming to Chicago and the end of

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September for our Courier twelve conference and
going to be panelists here, Scott and

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Bryan and so you read these scripts
and see that there are these creative choices

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being made and the stories work.
You know, they don't fit the they

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don't fit the sort of formulate paradigm. So yeah, I'm Fortunately for me,

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most of the students I deal with, except for the graduate students who

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may have had more experience in you
know, immersing themselves in screenwriting, the

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world of screenwriting and whatnot, most
of my students are undergraduate and they haven't

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been tainted by that, you know, which is great because then I can

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just deal with them like you've seen
them, you know, thousands of movies

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and TV series and whatnot. Great, you've got in an eight understanding of

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this, and so let's build on
that. But let's start with characters.

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Okay, let's start with your characters
and see where they take you. Yea,

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So it's it's kind of like you're
letting the characters kind of lead the

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plot rather than having, you know, this sort of template that comes in.

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I always see those templates like like
training wheels. You know, it's

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fine to use it if you're doing
like your first you know, screenplay or

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whatever. But if you start keep
doing that, you kind of end up

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with those formulaic movies that you know, you will always talk about. Well,

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and some of those formulas were created
back in the nineties, you know,

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are they relevant twenty years later?
You know? Apart from three X

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structure and perhaps the idea of sequences, you know, is there anything really

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that is kind of sacrosanct in terms
of the craft visa visa this, you

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know, screenplay structure. We'll be
right back after a word from our sponsor,

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and now back to the show.
I don't think so, you know,

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I think that again, you yes, have follow the characters. It's

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their story, they exist, they
know it better than you do. They're

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inviting you to tell the story.
They want you to tell the story,

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so it's much better to have you
know, we go through these brainstormy exercises,

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like I take my students through.
We do six sets of brainstormy exercises.

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We spend an entire couple of weeks
just doing brainstorming. You know,

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forget any of the construction construction of
the story. The first we just get

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to know the characters. And so
they'll do the traditional indirect engagement exercises like

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questionnaires and biographies, and I'll have
them, you know, write a scene

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just to kind of with the characters
and just to get them loosened up.

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But then we move into these direct
engagement exercises, which are great. It's

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like, all right, imagine you're
a psychiatrist and you're gonna have this patient

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as one of your characters, and
they've been court appointed. They have to

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see you, and they have to
answer questions. They cannot get out of

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this unless they answer your questions.
And so now you move from dealing with

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the character as an eye it relationship
like they're over there, you're dealing with

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them directly as an EU. And
so I'll have them do these exercises where

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they interview the characters. Then they'll
even get a little bit more into that

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kind of California New Age thing,
which is a lot of fun when I'm

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dealing with some students who are a
little bit more left brain oriented. Okay,

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so I'm going to have you go
into our room, close the door,

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turn off the phone, get a
piece of paper and a pad of

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paper and a pen, or get
in your computer, and I want you

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to do some deep breathing. It's
like meditation. I want you to breathe

400
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.759
in and out for about a minute
or so, and I want you to

401
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.839
be thinking of that character and get
into their headspace. And for the next

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00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.839
ten or fifteen minutes, it's at
a timer. I want you to blind

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type what are they thinking, what
are they feeling? And yes, your

404
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:07.160
mind will go, well, I
have to do this, and I've got

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to go wash the dog and whatever. That's just chatter. Let it go.

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Come back to that character and keep
reaching out to them and try and

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get into their headspace. You can
do that as like stream of consciousness.

408
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.839
You can also do that as like
monologues, like what are they going to

409
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:24.200
say? And so you just blind
type. You do that for two to

410
00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:29.839
fifteen minutes now what you end up
with, maybe eighty percent of it is

411
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:39.279
nonsensical, but twenty percent of it
whatever percentage fifty can be gold. You've

412
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:45.279
like accessed that character. Moreover,
if it is like a monologue or even

413
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:49.400
just articulating what they're thinking or feeling, you're starting to get a sense of

414
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:54.000
their voice. And so it is
that weird thing I call writing wrangling magic.

415
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:59.880
You know, where you're you're you're
believing this magical thing where the characters

416
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.400
exists in this weird way, and
so if you really believe that, then

417
00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:07.839
you'll start to see and hear them. It's like the inverse of that,

418
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:12.799
seeing is believing, Well believing is
seeing and hearing. You reach out to

419
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:15.079
them. They wouldn't have appeared to
you, and they wouldn't want you to

420
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:19.640
write their story if they hadn't shown
up. That they did show up somehow

421
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:23.000
in your conscious subconscious or conscious life, and so reach out to them.

422
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:28.079
And so we do all this brainstorming. It's great, it's really great,

423
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:32.240
And I have to say I've done
and I teach it to Paul and Screenwriting

424
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:36.559
master class. I had that prep
class I started eight years ago, and

425
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.920
I've done that, Like thirty times. That's the thing that I mean,

426
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:45.559
apart from everything else that they enjoy, the writers enjoy about that process when

427
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:47.960
we get through that brainstorming and they
create this master brainstorming list and they got

428
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.559
all this content that they've surfaced,
ten twenty pages of stuff before they even

429
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:57.519
moved toward plotting. I get compliments
about that all the time, like,

430
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:00.000
oh my god, that was such
a mind blowing experience. I can't belie

431
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:01.559
leeve how great that was. How
much more in touch I am with the

432
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:05.920
story? You know, And I've
added benefit. When you're in touch with

433
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.239
the characters and they're alive and they're
speaking to you and you're seeing them and

434
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:13.239
you're hearing them and you can't get
them out of your mind, how much

435
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:16.199
more motivated are you to write the
story because you're connected with them. So

436
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:21.079
yeah, you know, I preach
the character a lot. I'm sorry,

437
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:24.159
I get off of my soapbox on
that, but I just it's a counteractive

438
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:28.760
to formulaic writing. It's just working
with characters. And moreover, it's just

439
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:31.840
I think the right headed way to
do it. You can say, I

440
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:36.199
think it's kind of like it gives
you, like that north Star that north

441
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.239
Star. That's kind of like,
this is where you're going through story rather

442
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:43.280
than kind of making the writing of
a selfish stream of consciousness, you know

443
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.039
what I mean. So it kind
of it allows them to have a lot

444
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.559
more or even just you know,
anyone doing this in general, it as

445
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:53.360
you have a lot more of not
where to go, but also you kind

446
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:57.440
of know, okay, well,
these are some different scenarios or situations or

447
00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:00.960
what have you that that I've already
kind of thought of about. But before

448
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:02.800
I get to the outlining phase.
Oh yeah, and the brainstorming, I

449
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:06.679
tell him, don't pre ate it. I mean, you may be sitting

450
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:10.880
there typing right this stream of consciousness
and all of a sudden, chocolate milkshake

451
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.480
pops to mind. You may think, oh, well that's just dumb,

452
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:20.119
No, put it down. Imagine
what orson Wells if you'd been brainstorming and

453
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.840
said, snowblobe, what's that?
Threw it away? You know, No,

454
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:29.320
became an essential part of Citizen Kane. So you'll have scenes up here,

455
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.280
You'll have lines of dialogue up here, You'll have moments up here,

456
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:37.639
You'll have characters pop up. You
may be working on the protagonist character and

457
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:39.480
all of a sudden, the Nemesis
pops up. Okay, go off and

458
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:43.559
work with the nemesis. They evidently
want to talk to you right now.

459
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:50.159
Now that said, you can if
you're working with the protagonist, I think

460
00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:52.960
you talk about a north star.
The protagonist is your north star. In

461
00:35:53.119 --> 00:36:02.639
most stories, the protagonist's journey is
what dictates like virtually everything. It's why

462
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:09.400
those are the characters exist. If
you think about, for example, Robert

463
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:12.840
town had that great question. He
said, one of the best ways to

464
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:17.199
understand a character is to ask,
what are they most afraid of? Okay,

465
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:21.679
well, let's run with that.
So what if you work with a

466
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:24.639
protagonist and you come up with an
answer to that, what are they most

467
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:30.800
afraid of? Right? Clarice Starling
in the Silence of the Lambs most afraid

468
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:37.519
of confessing that horrible experience she had
in the Montana farm where she saw that

469
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:42.159
witness the spring slaughter of the lambs. She grabbed a lamb and ran off

470
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:45.280
with it. She was trying to
save that lamb, but it was so

471
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.400
heavy. It was so heavy.
She says, Well, if you really

472
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:54.679
drill down into the psychology of that
story, she is that lamb represents her

473
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:58.480
father. She's trying to save her
father. Her father was slain when she

474
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.920
was like ten years old, and
so what she's most afraid of is the

475
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:07.480
boogeyman who killed her dad. The
random chance he opens a door, these

476
00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:10.480
guys are stealing a TV boom boom, they shoot him and he dies.

477
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:19.400
So so if she's afraid of facing
those the associations that she has with her

478
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:22.920
father's death and those bad guys,
you know, with that experience in the

479
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:29.760
Montana farm, well so what better
way to create drama than to have her

480
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:35.239
face a boogeyman at the end who
is Buffalo Bill. So now all of

481
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.559
a sudden, you've got a specific
psychological connection between your protagonist and your nemesis.

482
00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:45.400
It's not just generic that that nemesis
is a projection or physicalization of the

483
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:51.719
of the protagonist shadow using this language. And so okay, that's cool.

484
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:54.320
Well then you think, all right, well, so what about allies along

485
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:59.039
the way? Well you'll meet like
a mentor figure or two, you know,

486
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:01.159
while in case of Starling, that's
just the great you know, it's

487
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:05.159
just that that movie is like the
perfect thing for me to teach because it's

488
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:09.760
like fits everything that hits everything that
I kind of believe about storytelling, mentor

489
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:15.519
characters. Hannibal Elector perfect guy for
her, not only because he's tied to

490
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:20.239
the Buffalo bill case, but also
because he's a strength and so he's he

491
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:24.559
can absolutely guide her into herself,
which is what she needs to do.

492
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:29.079
If you look at the story The
Silence of the Lamps from a meta standpoint,

493
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.519
you know, what is the narrative
imperative? Why does Clarisse get called

494
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:36.840
into this story? It's yeah,
it's to solve the case and to save

495
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:40.840
Catherine Martin, But on a personal
level and her psychological journey, it's to

496
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:45.639
intersect with Hannibal Elector. And they
do that quid pro quo, you tell

497
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:51.519
me, I'll tell you things.
You tell me things, but personal things.

498
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.840
Right, So you know, she
Crawford says, don't let him inside

499
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:58.760
your head. Boom, she lets
him inside her head. And so the

500
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:01.920
mentor helps her all the way down
and tell that thing that she doesn't want

501
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:06.360
to confess, which is the story
of the Montanner Farm. So if you

502
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:09.440
work with the protagonists and you start
thinking in terms of their journey, you

503
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:14.679
can even by asking the question,
my language system, what's their opening state

504
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:21.920
of disunity. What are they disconnected
from in their in their psyche, there's

505
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:27.280
stuff they're repressing, their their core
of being, their their need. When

506
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.440
we talk about need, not need
to obtain something, but need to emerge,

507
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:36.519
what needs to emerge from inside?
Right, Glinda the good which says

508
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:38.199
to Dorothy, Dorothy, You've had
the power to go home all along,

509
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:44.079
It's already there. Ovid says,
the seeds of change lie within and so

510
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:47.159
the character of the protagonist has that
stuff inside and it needs to emerge.

511
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.920
So they're in a state of disunion. They're just connected from that. But

512
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:54.119
if you can identify what it is
that needs to come out, that suggests

513
00:39:54.400 --> 00:40:04.360
the endpoint unity will be right back
after a word for our sponsor, and

514
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:09.880
now back to the show positive transformation. Obviously there are stories where the protagonist

515
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:15.960
doesn't have a positive transformation. So
just by working with the protagonist character and

516
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:22.320
looking at their their psychological state to
depth, you can surface all sorts of

517
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:27.639
things. And of course brainstorming will
help surface this subconscious stuff that you know,

518
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:30.880
can really enrich a story. Again
getting off on a soapbox that date,

519
00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:34.840
But I'm passionate about this stuff,
you know, I want people to

520
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:40.960
write stories that are vibrant and alive
and you know, not formulaic that there

521
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:45.199
were the plot emerges from working with
the characters. You know that that's my

522
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:50.079
true passion. Yeah, it's just
like this interview, like I'm Clarice and

523
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:52.480
you're you're kind of like Hannibal Lector. I've come to ask you for over

524
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:59.119
over help, and uh yeah,
well I I funny. I did the

525
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:02.320
London Screenwriting Festival last year Screenwriters Festival, and they invited me back. I'm

526
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:07.559
going again in a week and I'll
be doing a masterclass and four presentations.

527
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:12.920
But I talk about one of the
presentations I did last year and they asked

528
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:19.119
me to reprise it this year is
writing a worthy nemesis. And my thesis

529
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:22.800
there is that the best way to
come up with a worthy nemesis is to

530
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:28.519
start with the protagonist again, what
is inside them? If you ask the

531
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:31.079
question what do they fear the most? And then put the protagonists in the

532
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:36.559
situation where they have to confront that
fear, that's just great drama. So

533
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.000
but yeah, I think the point
is that I do a little Hannibal Lecter

534
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:45.679
impersonation, but I do that and
uh, some people really like that last

535
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:47.880
year, so I guess I'll try
and try and do that again this year.

536
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.199
It's something that somebody once pointed out
to me. Now I can't hear

537
00:41:52.239 --> 00:42:00.320
it. It was I ate his
liver with a bottle of key kyant,

538
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:02.960
Yeah, and somebody said it's actually
key keyante or something like. Apparently he

539
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.320
mispronounced it in the movie and I
didn't even notice it. And I'm like,

540
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:07.239
now, now, whenever I hear
him, kind of like, uh,

541
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:10.960
you know, he says it,
but I think he's being ironic.

542
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:15.559
I mean, I think he purposefully
miss mispronounced it because you will listen to

543
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:20.480
it. It's hang there he goes
with some fava beans and a nice canty

544
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:23.679
like he's from New York or something. You know. Uh, that's yeah.

545
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:29.239
I think he does kind of mispronounce
it or whatever. But but you

546
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:30.599
know, I'm gonna have to watch
we watched the movie and uh and pay

547
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:34.280
attention to that part again. But
uh, but you know, I wanted

548
00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:36.360
to you know, s gott.
I know we're kind of pushed on time,

549
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:38.599
but I wanted to talk about zero
draft thirty. Um, it's it's

550
00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:42.280
you know, it's uh, you
know, I wanted to interview you again

551
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:45.639
before it's started, and it's actually
starting in what two days? Um?

552
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:47.719
First? Yeah, yeah, so
two days? So, uh, you

553
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.800
know, could you just you know, take us through, you know,

554
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:52.960
the the impetus for you to start
zero draft thirty and what it is for

555
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:59.440
those who don't know. Sure,
Well, back in October twenty fifteen,

556
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:02.599
I've been working on a script project
and developing it and it started writing it

557
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:07.360
when something happened in the news that
basically blew up the story. And so,

558
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:13.679
you know, I've had situations where
projects had gotten kind of pulled out

559
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:15.679
from underneath me, but this was
particularly veccine because I put a lot of

560
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:19.440
time into it, and so I
was very frustrated. Well, I had

561
00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:22.480
this comedy that I'd been sitting in
my back burner for some time. So

562
00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:27.239
I just said on my blog,
all right, I haven't even worked the

563
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:30.320
story out, I know the characters, I know kind of where I want

564
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:34.559
to go, But starting November first
through November thirtieth, I'm just going to

565
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:38.119
write this script. And it's like
Nantal Writemo. I mean, it's not

566
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.920
like an original idea. They used
to do a thing called script Frenzy,

567
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.159
but they stopped doing it, I
think in twenty thirteen, so I just

568
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:47.519
invited people to do it with me
while I got picked up by indie wire.

569
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.519
It was translated into like Spanish and
other languages, and I think we

570
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:55.800
had over a thousand as far as
I could tell, guess them at people

571
00:43:57.280 --> 00:44:00.760
doing that, and we had dozens
and dozens and dozens of people who the

572
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:04.000
script. Somebody came up with this
idea. I called it zero drafts,

573
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:06.599
and then they came up with the
idea of zero draft thirty like zero dark

574
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:09.719
thirty on the zero draft thirty,
and so that became the moniker for it.

575
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:14.639
The basic idea of zero draft is
it's like a pre first draft.

576
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:20.000
So if you have problems with perfectionism
and you have problems with procrastination, a

577
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:23.199
procrastination largely is about, well,
I'm afraid that what I'm going to produce

578
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:27.360
is not going to be any good, So that's perfectionism. Well this is

579
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:31.920
a great way. It's like a
blast at that because it's all about productivity

580
00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:39.480
rather than the quality. It's about
quantity pages, not quality pages. Obviously,

581
00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:43.559
right those best you can. But
the point is to get from fade

582
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:46.039
into fade out with the belief that
by having done that, you will have

583
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:50.920
learned a lot more about your story
than when you began it. Even if

584
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:55.519
you've outlined your story, and you
will cross that psychological barrier which you've gotten

585
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:59.880
to the first draft, and so
now you can have something to work with

586
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:05.000
as opposed to just staring at a
blank page. So what happened was we

587
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:07.360
did that, and then my theory
is, and I always tell people that

588
00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:10.559
if you're outside the business and you
want to break in, you need to

589
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:16.039
be obviously watching movies and reading scripts, but also writing pages. And so

590
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:21.199
write two specs a year. Even
if you did one page a day,

591
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:23.960
you spend a month prepping a story
you wrote for four months a page a

592
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:27.760
day, that's one hundred and twenty
pages, and then you spend a month

593
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:30.440
rewriting it. Well, you could
do two spec scripts a year just by

594
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:35.239
writing one page a day. So
what I did was in the blog we

595
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:40.039
decided to do two zero draft thirty
challenges a year, one in September and

596
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:44.400
one in March. March is actually
thirty one day, so you get a

597
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:50.199
bonus day, and so they're basically
spaced six months apart. And there's a

598
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:52.679
Facebook group Zero Draft thirty Facebook group, which is a public group, but

599
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:55.719
it's private in the sense that you
have to join it. We now have

600
00:45:55.840 --> 00:46:00.199
thirty one hundred members. That's an
ongoing thing. You know, it's a

601
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:05.559
terrific group. It's very much like
going to the story. It's everybody in

602
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.199
there, you know, understands that
it's a real hard to road to hoe

603
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:13.519
that the competition is fierce. Success
is hard to come by. But we're

604
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:17.239
also optimistic. We're also we lift
each other up, you know. I

605
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:20.679
kind of ways just point to myself
say, look, I was completely outside

606
00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:22.880
the business. I knew one person
and I wrote my third spec script and

607
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:27.480
sold. So you know, I
can't deny that reality. It does happen,

608
00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:30.639
even though the odds are long.
So the zero Draft thirty challenge starts

609
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:35.559
in September first ends on September thirtieth. I do a blog post every day

610
00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:39.320
with some inspirational stuff. We I
look, you know, there's a hashtag

611
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:44.280
ZD thirty script. I look there, I look at the Facebook group,

612
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:46.519
I look at my blog. I
see what people are posting. Every day.

613
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:52.400
I'll select somebody and give them an
award. It varies. Sometimes it's

614
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:57.119
the Anita Loose a word who was
one of the first great screenwriters in Hollywood,

615
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:00.960
a woman, and sometimes it's a
Dalton Trumbo word. And so they

616
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.239
just get a little picture with their
name, you know, on it,

617
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:07.400
and just a little something to motivate
people. But it's great. And we

618
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:14.519
also this year have a harmonic convergence
for reasons which I can't get into.

619
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:19.400
It's just too long. But the
spirit animal for the zero Draft thirty group

620
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:23.880
is a hamster called scamper. We
don't go writing sprints. We do writing

621
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:27.440
scampers. Again, it's like,
have some fun with this, right,

622
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:30.400
So we do this thing. We've
now done it, I think like thirty

623
00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:34.599
times every first Friday night or Saturday, you know, twenty one one am

624
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.559
to Sunday, twenty four hour period, we do what we call our writing

625
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:43.280
scamper a thon. So they're twenty
four hosts around the world each hour of

626
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.639
the day, so that you know, you just pick a day, pick

627
00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:51.119
time slot, you're going to know
that somebody's going to be there to usher

628
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:55.119
you into your hour and congratulate you
on spending that hour writing. The point

629
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:58.800
of it is to get people to
write on weekends, and the point of

630
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:00.239
that is to get people to write
every day. You know, if you

631
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:04.760
get writing every day, there becomes
a habit and you're more productive. So

632
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:09.639
it just so happens that this September
challenge, starting September first at twelve or

633
00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:15.360
one am, I'm gonna launch the
next twenty four hours scamper thought. So

634
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:20.760
if people are interested, they can
go to the zero draft thirty Facebook group.

635
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:24.199
Just look that up against tremendous group
of people there. We get some

636
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:30.239
wonderful moderators who oversee things and there's
no we don't allow anybody to promote any

637
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:35.920
consulting services or any contests or any
of that stuff. It's like a completely

638
00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:38.960
ad free, pressure free zone.
It's just people who uh, you know,

639
00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:44.159
want to support each other and help
each other and and um, you

640
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:46.320
know, writers groups form off that, you know, private writers groups or

641
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:51.400
people will say I have some pages, I'll read pages in exchange for you

642
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:55.199
reading pages. You can do that
offline. So but anyhow, that's zero

643
00:48:55.280 --> 00:49:00.679
draft thirty. It's the zero draft
approach. There are there are from writers

644
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:05.119
who do this. There's a that's
Scott Fraser five or six years ago,

645
00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:07.559
got on Twitter one day and said
I'm going to write a draft in twenty

646
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:15.400
four hours, and he commented along
the way on Twitter, and he did.

647
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:17.840
He wrote that draft in twenty four
hours. It was a real rough

648
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:22.559
draft, like sixty pages. But
that became a movie. He wrote the

649
00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:27.800
script and sold it and then became
a movie. So there's real value in

650
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:31.840
the zero draft approach, and particularly
if you're a perfectionist and you tend to

651
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:39.239
procrastinate. Do you know what that
movie was called that? I can look

652
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:44.440
it up. He's been on Twitter
for quite some time, but it was

653
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:49.760
I'll have to look it up.
I can email it to you. We'll

654
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:55.679
be right back after a word from
our sponsor, and now back to the

655
00:49:55.719 --> 00:50:00.960
show. Okay, yeah, yeah, I just that's actually pretty interesting,

656
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:05.039
Scott Um. But w yeah,
you know, I'm actually going to compete

657
00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:07.679
in uh we'll compete. I'm actually
going to participate. Yeah, and zero

658
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:13.079
Draft thirty because you really don't compete
against any movie with yourself. But but

659
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:15.880
but uh you know, uh yeah, I want to participate this year.

660
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:19.079
I try to do it last year
and I just kind of fell off the

661
00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:21.519
wagon there, I guess I don't. I just kind of it kind of

662
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:23.599
fell off the rails and Uh,
so I'm going to participate this year.

663
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:27.880
I got that handy dandy calendar out
right. I was like, so,

664
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:30.800
yeah, that thing's awesome. So
whoever made that, you know, great,

665
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:34.800
it's great work. Stephen Dudley did
that. He's one of those zero

666
00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:37.519
Draft thirty members. And so if
you go to my blog, I have

667
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.719
blog posts all this week prepping people
for the challenge, and you can see

668
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.679
there's a doubt you can download this
this wonderful calendar where you know, where

669
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:49.000
you can just fill in every day. There's a little motivational things in there

670
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:52.840
and whatnot. So yeah, and
I'm gonna link to all that in the

671
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:54.920
show notes, Scott, just you
know, all of the things that we've

672
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:58.639
talked about, so, you know, just to sort of, you know,

673
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:00.920
put a period the end of this
whole conversation, Sky, is there

674
00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:04.960
anything you wanted to to sort of
add in conclusion, Well, just that

675
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:12.480
again reinforcing the point that the odds
are long, you know, astronomically long

676
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:16.960
to be able to make a living
as a writer, and yet people do

677
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:23.440
you know there it was nice to
see that the number of people in the

678
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:29.840
feature film side of things in Hollywood
in twenty seventeen, there was an uptick

679
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:34.440
in the number of people, pretty
substantial one, so that you know,

680
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:37.519
it is possible to work as a
writer in the business. But beyond that,

681
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:43.960
just if you pursue your passion.
You know, if you're creative and

682
00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:47.679
you don't give voice to that and
you don't pursue that, that's such a

683
00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:53.880
loss for you and perhaps the universe. Um. But if you do pursue

684
00:51:53.960 --> 00:51:59.639
it, you know, then you're
putting yourself in alignment with some authentic part

685
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:04.760
of your self. And you know, again, folly or bliss, it's

686
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:08.440
it's more than just three words.
It's it's like a fundamental thing. Can

687
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:15.159
you imagine this world eight billion people
who are each of them able to pursue

688
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:22.360
the thing about which they were the
most passionate, the thing that enlivened them.

689
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:25.519
You know what a place this would
be. So I just encourage people

690
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:32.039
to don't think about the odds,
don't think about anything other than just what

691
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:37.159
it is that excites you. If
you're a creative person and pursue it,

692
00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:43.239
whether it's an avocation, whatever it
is, you know, woodworking, painting,

693
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:49.840
poetry, kite flying, do that, because it's just going to have

694
00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:53.599
an incredible benefit for you, and
you'll know at the end of your life,

695
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:58.320
you know, you won't say I
regret not doing that. You will

696
00:52:58.360 --> 00:53:01.760
have done it, and so follow
your blisses. I always think, always

697
00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:08.679
say that's it's profoundly important insight into
life. Yeah, it's good. Uh,

698
00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:12.440
you don't want to live life with
regret or you know, we kind

699
00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:15.559
of look back and say, why
didn't I do that? Or what went

700
00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:17.000
wrong? You know, why didn't
I Why wasn't I able to do that?

701
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:21.320
Then you know, and uh,
you know, I agreed completely,

702
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.360
Scott, And I think that's a
great way to sort of put a period

703
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:27.440
at the end of all this where
people find you out online. Scott,

704
00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:31.199
Well, there's my blog. Go
into the story. You know. That's

705
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:37.800
based on a little anecdote I had
with my youngest son. He was about

706
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:39.719
three at the time, and I
was joking with him while I was overseeing

707
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:43.159
his bath. I said, well, you know, my dad, your

708
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:45.239
dad's gonna write a story tomorrow,
the New Script, and do you have

709
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:49.159
any advice for me? And he
looked up at me and without hesitation,

710
00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:52.679
said, go into the story and
find the animals, which I just thought

711
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:57.000
was, you know, great and
So that's my blog, Go into the

712
00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.519
Story. It's now ten years old. Launched in May sixteen, two thousand

713
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:05.000
and eight. It's the official screenwriting
blog of the Blacklist. There are twenty

714
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.719
four thousand posts there. It's covers
basically everything you could possibly imagine. You

715
00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:13.280
can follow me on Twitter go into
the story at going to the Story,

716
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:17.920
I think of fifty one thousand followers
at this point, but the very active

717
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:25.920
feed there all screenwriting and writing and
creative you know oriented. Also there's the

718
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:30.639
zero Draft thirty Facebook group which I
started back in November of twenty fifteen,

719
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:37.800
and terrific community of people there.
And then the DePaul's University School of Cinematic

720
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:40.440
Arts. If you know anybody,
Oh I should I have to say this

721
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:46.079
day, I got to tell you
this. We just recently starting classes here

722
00:54:46.119 --> 00:54:55.559
in September sixth will be the first
BFA and MFA set of students for comedy

723
00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:00.559
writing and film writing in conjunction with
the Second City. We've partnered with the

724
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:05.960
Second City, which is the premier
improv group. You know, it's been

725
00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:09.440
around for fifty years and so DePaul
University has partnered with the Second City and

726
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:15.000
we're now offering the worlds only to
my knowledge, BFA and MFA programs and

727
00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:20.480
comedy writing and filmmaking. So the
students get to actually go to the second

728
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:25.679
city site there and work with those
incredible faculty that they have who are just

729
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:32.760
phenomenal teachers when it comes to comedy
and an improv. They actually work with

730
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:38.280
them at the Lincoln Park facility over
there. I live five blocks from there,

731
00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:44.519
and then they also work here at
our DePaul University taking classes. So

732
00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:47.960
they're getting they're getting an education,
but they're getting an education in which they're

733
00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:54.400
going to end up with a portfolio
of content and an incredible experience developing their

734
00:55:54.400 --> 00:56:00.039
comedy chops from just like top tier
faculty in both worlds, the improv and

735
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:05.679
sketch world and then the screenwriting and
writing world. So so De Paul University

736
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:09.159
School of Cinematic Arts is where I
am. And I think that's probably pretty

737
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:12.719
much about it in terms of how
you get in touch with me. Oh

738
00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:15.800
can I mention mentioned one other thing. If you're in the UK and you're

739
00:56:15.800 --> 00:56:21.440
listening to this, I'm going to
be at the London Screenwriters Festival from September

740
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:23.559
seventh through the tenth. I believe
it is or seventh of the ninth,

741
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:30.119
sixth of the ninth. Then I'm
going to be in Cologne the first week

742
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:32.800
of October to Cologne, Germany for
a two day master class, and then

743
00:56:32.960 --> 00:56:37.519
I'm doing a keynote address for their
Film Festival, and then I'll be at

744
00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:39.800
the Austin Film Festival at the end
of October. And then if you're in

745
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:44.440
France, I'm going to be in
Paris in March of twenty nineteen for a

746
00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:47.440
three day workshop there too, So
doing a lot more of this type of

747
00:56:47.480 --> 00:56:52.880
thing, So I will definitely link
that in the show note because Scott,

748
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:57.920
I think I think the UK is
like the third biggest listener base of this

749
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:01.199
podcast, so all right, so
well, I think that's a it's a

750
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:05.840
good sign. So um but good
you know it scotten the link to everything

751
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:07.199
you said in the show notes a
great having a conversation with you again,

752
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:12.199
Dave. I want to thank Dave
so much for doing such a great job

753
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:14.639
on this episode. If you want
to get links to anything we spoke about

754
00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:17.760
in this episode, head over to
the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv

755
00:57:17.960 --> 00:57:23.360
forward slash three zero four, and
if you haven't already, please head over

756
00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:30.039
to Screenwriting podcast dot com, Subscribe
and leave a good review for the show.

757
00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:32.599
It really really helps us out a
lot. Thank you again for listening

758
00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:37.440
to guys as always, keep on
writing no matter what. I'll talk to

759
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:43.360
you soon. Thanks for listening to
the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.