WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:20.800 New Eastern Europe podcasts. This is one of the symbols of the Beila Russian 2 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:26.039 Awakening. Torbent thinks we are not cattle, we are not hurt, we 3 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:34.439 are not cowards. We are Billa Russians. Minia be last. God rules 4 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:45.920 say me, Bella rule says very far there zimmstroys Nina Body Nagalla Boy. 5 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:53.600 Alexander Blink, a former opposition candidate for the presidency of bilar Rus, underlines 6 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:58.399 the European identity of Bella Russians. The protests have been going on since the 7 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:22.560 summer of twenty twenty emphasized this identity. Historian Better Russians have a European mentality 8 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:27.200 without a doubt, European history, traditions, language. They are vigilant that 9 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:32.239 they are not Russians, although they have gone through a horrible denationalization at the 10 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:37.640 beginning of the Tarist regime then the Soviet Union. Most citizens feel that we 11 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:42.439 are on the verge of two civilizations. Today the country would like to be 12 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:47.280 such a Belarusian Switzerland. I do not know if it is possible. History 13 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:49.560 is different. We are not in the Alps, but it is possible to 14 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:55.560 understand because the European Union is not able to join us yet, and we 15 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:59.799 are not ready either. And with Russia it is better to live not in 16 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:05.560 a shared dormitory but in our own homes, and not brotherly relations but good 17 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:10.039 neighborly relations. While fighting a brutal dictatorship. We have no right to lose 18 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:15.479 our homeland. Russia is an empire. If the empire does not expand, 19 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:19.960 it dies, and the ideology of the Russian world is losing an important drag. 20 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.960 In such a situation, Putin wants to rule forever. We know that 21 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:28.080 after he lost Ukraine at all costs, he must keep Belarus in his brotherly 22 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:34.319 embrace. Moscow with Putin will always be a threat to us. I believe 23 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.479 that the changes will come not from abroad, not from the East, not 24 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:42.599 from the west. They will be brought by the ongoing Belarussian revolution of dignity. 25 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:46.120 We must fight for the right to live in a free, democratic and 26 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:51.199 just beliruves ourselves. It is our duty. There have been some truly historic, 27 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:59.039 irreversible changes in the country this year. National revival, the strengthening of 28 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:05.439 identity, a sense of solidarity and civic responsibility. Millions of better Russians fought 29 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:09.719 of fear a political nation has emerged that is saying goodbye to its post Soviet 30 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:38.319 past forever up very be Russian political scientists says that until their presidential elections in 31 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:45.599 twenty twenty and the ensuing wave of protests, Russian consciousness was deeply dormant, 32 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:55.879 would just go number. Until twenty twenty, it was simply unnoticeable. It 33 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:00.520 was just there, and it was not there, so it was not even 34 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.599 crystallized. It was not active, It was not visible, and there was 35 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:10.000 no common interest. What has happened now, This electoral revolution which turned into 36 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:15.960 a national revolution. During these events simply made Belarussians understand that they were Belarussians, 37 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.519 that they had their own country, that they were to fight for their 38 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:26.040 country. Suddenly they understood that they had their own culture, their symbols, 39 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:31.120 that they suddenly understood that Belarussians are a heroic nation that does not just sit 40 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:36.279 there during these years and does nothing but fights. It never happened even after 41 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:41.839 two thousand and ten or two thousand and six. There were such small waves 42 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:48.040 of solidarity, but it was not on such a scale. This electoral revolution 43 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:53.519 has awakened the understanding in people that there are not just some Belarussians, but 44 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:58.439 there are many of them, and this activity, this diaspora or solidarity simply 45 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:02.279 consolidated in In fact, it turned out that the influence of Belarussians and the 46 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:08.319 activity of Belarussians is quite important and quite visible in all countries, especially in 47 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:24.000 the European Union. The awakening undermines many stereotypes about Belarussians. Antons I fully 48 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:32.399 are Center for East European Studies at the University of Warsaw Spoiler tant for how 49 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:41.000 do we imagine Belarussians outside Belarussian society as a subordinate quasi Soviet society at least 50 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:44.560 the power that governs them forces them to obey. They do not have their 51 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:48.879 proper identities because they have the language they speak Russian. They do not know 52 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:56.000 their history. Yes, of course I'm over simplifying this and over generalizing. 53 00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:00.879 However, a similar image did exist, and what Bela Russians showed, this 54 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:05.040 incredible solidarity, help and the fact that they do not give up obviously surprised 55 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:11.720 many people. The stratification or fragmentation of individual identities that began to form and 56 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:17.000 arise in Belarus after nineteen ninety one Lukashenka stopped this national impetus. He did 57 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:24.800 not allow such a situation to arise, as for example in Ukraine. This 58 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:28.879 played a role for Belarusian society. As a consequence, they now have the 59 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:34.519 opportunity to skip certain stages and enter the post national stage. Where did it 60 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:39.800 come from, Well, here again the issue of the fact that this contract 61 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:44.120 was broken. There was no longer any trust in the authorities. Also, 62 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.680 the clear and massive support of all those who are gainst Lukashenka. Cues were 63 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:56.160 shared for all the candidates Potzikaka Babarika. People simply made huge lines human chains 64 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:59.839 in the center of Minsk and in the center of all Belarussian cities in general, 65 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:06.839 the sign they meant to demonstrate their protests then and it ended with a 66 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:13.879 huge Sichhanaska election rally in early August, when seventy thousand people gathered in Minsk. 67 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:16.920 It was one of the largest demonstrations in the history of modern Belarus. 68 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:21.480 And then it was obvious that these changes were necessary and people wanted these changes. 69 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:26.759 It may sound a bit idealistic, but it must also be understood that 70 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.560 for a quarter of a century people have somehow managed to try to get along 71 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:34.319 exist, coexist, leave or stay or do something that will not have to 72 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:41.120 do with or relate to power. And in the end it was broken primarily 73 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:46.439 by the authorities. And with the increasing pace of repression, the authorities simply 74 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:49.319 did not keep up with these changes, with these new forms of protest, 75 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:55.720 and finally began to react quite spontaneously and aggressively. The first days of the 76 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:00.240 protest clearly decided here that society would not give up. But there was a 77 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:05.519 critical moment the women saved the situation again. So after the first days, 78 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:09.240 on the fourth or fifth day of these protests, they came out dressed in 79 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.879 white with flowers. They came out near the Komorowski Market and the Yaku Kolas 80 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.800 Square in Minsk, which is at the very heart of the city. They 81 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:22.519 made such a peaceful demonstration that is still a new pace of protests. They 82 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:26.439 maintained this militant mood of the protest. It was possible to sustain by such 83 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:31.840 smaller steps, small protests, then backyard actions that were gathering specifically a few 84 00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:37.919 houses, and these new and newer forms of protest. Local protest led to 85 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.480 the fact that it became clear that the situation would not change, the situation 86 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:46.080 will change more precisely for us, and we have changed it our heads, 87 00:08:46.519 --> 00:09:15.240 and even if Lukashenka stays, it will be different. Babylation. So we 88 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:31.000 Russian sociologist believes that Alexander Lukashenka's regime has become the equivalent of an external aggressor 89 00:09:31.080 --> 00:10:01.000 against whom that nation is uniting. If if we look at the changes in 90 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:05.039 our region, it was often the case that a nation became a nation in 91 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.600 a situation of external threat, and in our situation, the lucas Shanka regime 92 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:15.600 is such a threat. There has been a visible division into self and other. 93 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.879 There's been a polarization. They i e. Strangers the other or talking 94 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:26.840 about the regime allow themselves not only to act in force against the law, 95 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:33.759 but also against their conscience. In society, this polarization is becoming more and 96 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.960 more visible. It's no longer possible to remain above the fray. You're either 97 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:46.240 for or against. You can't stay indifferent because what's happening involves everyone. Even 98 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:50.480 during the election campaign, there were few white, red and white flags at 99 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:54.720 the rallies, and their meaning was more cultural and historical. Most of society 100 00:10:54.879 --> 00:11:01.720 was indifferent, but now national symbols have taken on a different meaning. It's 101 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:05.960 not about value and historical tradition. This white, red and white sea that 102 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.720 spreads all over the country as an expression of the will to identify with the 103 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:20.519 nation and not with the operative state and state ideology. It was very uplifting 104 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.919 that the protest was collective, so damn inclusive. The protests speaks to the 105 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:31.919 authorities not as a mob, but as a society. The protesters themselves also 106 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.519 realize and accept that they belong to different social groups, but they have a 107 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:43.720 common goal. We've noticed identity groups, for example LGBT quite interesting as people 108 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:48.240 identifying with their neighborhoods. In Minsk, residents of individual neighborhoods have come up 109 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.840 with their own flags and white, red and white shades and go out with 110 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:58.039 them. There are even street symbols. There's online voting for flags in which 111 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:03.120 district symbols are the most beautiful. It's become important for people to identify with 112 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:07.519 a particular group in place and to display it as well. People also began 113 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:13.399 to change the toponyms of cities. For example, there was Change Square or 114 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:18.720 Mariya Kolosnikova Street. After the arrest this idea developed and spread out quite a 115 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:24.399 lot, and it was strongly promoted by independent candidates in the election campaign. 116 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:31.879 It's about the message that every person is responsible for something. The idea of 117 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:37.399 the responsibility of every citizen has become extremely popular and visible, and this is 118 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:45.519 the great value of the protest. And anyway, Tikhanovskaya and Kolosnikova said that 119 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.919 this was not their revolution, but a change that was important to us as 120 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:56.360 a society. That's why there is such a decentralization and anyone everyone can go 121 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:03.279 out and talk about what's important for a specific person. I believe that's tremendous 122 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:09.639 added value the idea that this protest is my personal protest, that I bear 123 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:15.080 responsibility for a common cause, but also for myself, for a housing estate, 124 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:20.039 a group, or a neighborhood. Yeah, there's a sense of responsibility 125 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.039 for everyone to protest in the best way they deem fit and the birth of 126 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:39.000 an unprecedented creativity in protest. According to pavo Ulsov, the awakening of the 127 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:45.679 national consciousness of be the Russians has become a fact with all its consequences. 128 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:58.679 Basically, country than creases the chance no matter how it ends this crisis. 129 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:05.159 Victory and the result of this victory are here the awakening of the national consciousness. 130 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.480 This is expressed in the adoption of national symbols without any discussion, without 131 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:16.080 any attempt to replace these alternative candidates, somehow to create a new political symbolism 132 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.759 that was not accepted and immediately rejected. The symbol of today's protest and the 133 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.799 movement is the white, red and white flag and the Pachonia emblem, which 134 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:31.080 can simply be discussed. Regarding the language, Does the Belarusian language have to 135 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:35.240 be the state language and Russian the language of interpersonal communication or should both languages 136 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:41.559 be state languages. The discussion continues, but there is no doubt that the 137 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:46.519 Belarussian flag and the national flag and the pachonya national emblem, must be state 138 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:50.879 symbols. Also some national anthem the pachonia or Machut Niboga hymns, which are 139 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:56.080 sung by people in the metro recently in the National theater, opera and ballet 140 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:01.600 theater. The theater collective sang mahault Niborja. So people just understand that they 141 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.399 are a nation, they are part of the nation, and they are just 142 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.159 the locomotive that is, the nation is creating itself. And this is an 143 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:15.120 exciting phenomenon, a wonderful phenomenon, because no one expected it to develop into 144 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:24.200 such a national movement. With the national revival, people begin to understand their 145 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:28.240 history. They begin to understand the return of historical memories to the ages of 146 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:33.799 the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, to such heroism, because until then there was 147 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:39.399 only history focused on the Soviet Union. Belarus has a continuation of this Sovietism, 148 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:43.480 modernized at some points, and such a great attachment to the Great Patriotic 149 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:48.360 War, because in Belarus it is not World War Two, but the Great 150 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:54.600 Patriotic War, which began on June twenty second, nineteen forty one. Only 151 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:58.919 the historical situation has changed. In Ukraine the Baltic countries, history has treated 152 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.879 differently there. In Belarus it was associated with the Soviet tradition, which did 153 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.840 not exist before the war, a return to the tradition of the Belarussian people 154 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:14.720 state, which was established on March twenty fifth, nineteen eighteen. So slowly, 155 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.720 slowly this mythology changes. Belarussians are beginning to understand precisely during this revival 156 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:29.639 that their countries existed for many, many years and have a long tradition and 157 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:33.879 the Grand Duchy of Poland and Lithuania, which is even older than this Russian 158 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:38.279 tradition. Already people are starting to slowly push this tradition away. Those who 159 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:42.080 are not interested in history start to be interested in it along with politics. 160 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.919 Now they are fighting for freedom, they are fighting for their rights. So 161 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:51.000 no one can say that Belarussians received this freedom and their rights in advance, 162 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:55.840 so suddenly they are fighting for it. And this fight, I hope it 163 00:16:55.879 --> 00:17:00.120 will lead to the formation of a stable democratic regime and that what happened in 164 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:25.640 Ukraine, for example, will not be repeated. The provided dog, the 165 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:32.000 poet and Jihadanovitch translated into bel Russian the song more Waltz, which become one 166 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:47.160 of the anthems of the Bielo Russian revolutionari in July. Before the elections, 167 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:51.440 we were right and left to liberals and conservatives. We argued with each other, 168 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:56.359 trusted and distrusted the leaders. Now we have common goals. We have 169 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.880 to end this regime, and only then will the details begin, when we 170 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.960 will start fighting among ourselves for the future of the Belarus that we want. 171 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:07.880 For now, we are connected by what we do not want, of what 172 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:14.839 we have had enough for only six months ago, four months ago, the 173 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.240 average Belarusian knew that there was a white, red, white flag, but 174 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.119 it was not supported and may not necessarily have been displayed publicly. Maybe we 175 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.720 can communicate under the official red and green flag. Remember that back in July, 176 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:30.799 people used to come to the meetings with Sieglana tihanal Skaya with some of 177 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:36.480 these flags, sometimes with two at the same time. Because in August ninth, 178 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.880 after the first shots of people, after the first rape, after the 179 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:48.279 first tortures, everything changed. Immediately, the official flag died in the eyes 180 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:52.680 of the protesters as something so precious. Now this is the flag that hangs 181 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:57.279 on the autocrats. Even Russian speaking people who had never described themselves as oppositionists 182 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:03.319 but who had never described themselves as protesting, suddenly came out with white, 183 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:07.400 red and white flags. And even and even if not the flags, it 184 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.880 is the same reconciliation of these two colors at the level of clothing, clothing, 185 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.559 at the level of some ribbons on the hand or in the hair. 186 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:19.799 This reconciliation of colors works and brings people together. The same can be said 187 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.960 about the coat of arms about the paconia. It is a renaissance of national 188 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:37.559 symbols, Renaissance Narado. One of the important elements of the changes is the 189 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:45.240 discovery of history by Belarussians. As mentioned by the singer and ethnologist Nasa in 190 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:51.359 twenty eighteen, there was a very creative initiative, namely the revival of the 191 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:55.640 work of the poets who were shot in the nineteen thirties. Their work was 192 00:19:55.720 --> 00:20:00.880 brought back to memory in twenty eighteen, many musicians, artists began recording these 193 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:07.599 songs, bringing them back to consciousness, restoring them to memory, to contemporary 194 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:12.279 history. And today we're dealing with simply a huge amount of this revolutionary creativity. 195 00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:18.599 Yet it's also one that brings back the cultural memory and history of Belarus 196 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:30.359 or history. And they had an It gives an example of a similar interest 197 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:41.279 in the history of Belarus. Let us say October twenty ninths, the tragic 198 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:45.279 day of Belarussian history, when the NKVD shot more than one hundred Belarusian intellectuals 199 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:51.839 in one night. I read a lesson for the inhabitants of the Malinovka district 200 00:20:51.960 --> 00:21:07.279 about the executed poets of the Belarusian Revival of nineteen thirty seven. In a 201 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:11.759 country seen as a direct continuation of the Soviet Union, the role of religion 202 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:29.880 is rarely given attention. Kowski, director of the Belarusian Institute of Strategic Studies, 203 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.559 The trend was increasing when it comes to religiosity over the past thirty years. 204 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.880 I mean the percentage of people who answered the question about the importance of 205 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.440 God in their lives, of the importance of religion and their lives and answered 206 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:49.839 yes. So until the beginning of this decade I have in mind more or 207 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:55.160 less twenty ten, eleven twelve, this trend was increasing, while in the 208 00:21:55.240 --> 00:22:00.000 last ten years it's slightly decreased. But it is therefore noteworthy that the number 209 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:04.279 umber of deep believers has increased while the overall number of religious people has fallen. 210 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:10.200 The proportion of frequent practitioners who are not only believers but also very practicing 211 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:12.279 people, that is, people who pray at least once a day, has 212 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:17.400 increased. The number of those who pray several times a day has increased, 213 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:21.720 on the one hand. On the other the number of atheists has also increased. 214 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.000 So what does this mean from the point of view of social and cultural 215 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:33.000 change. It means an increase in such authenticity. If I am a believer, 216 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:37.200 I must therefore be consistent. If I think that this is not my 217 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:41.799 path, then I also consistently choose the atheistic path. So it is also 218 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.599 quite symptomatic and fits in with a general trend of changes in the sphere of 219 00:22:45.720 --> 00:23:10.599 values as well as now in the political sphere. I will mention this action 220 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:15.640 of Catholics. Catholics do not falsify, which was important before the elections, 221 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.839 and partly also after the elections, and then such a very meaningful event was 222 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.599 a common prayer and the public learned about these tortures and killings that happened just 223 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:29.480 after the presidential elections when special forces wanted to suppress the protests. Not only 224 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:33.119 Christian churches that is, Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, but also Jews and 225 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.039 Muslims organized a joint prayer for peace in the country and for the cessation of 226 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:44.440 violence. Of course, there are differences when it comes to the Catholic, 227 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.960 Orthodox and Reformed churches. Catholicism is of course, historically more immersed in the 228 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:55.160 Western context, very much related to Polish Catholicism. Therefore, the influence of 229 00:23:55.240 --> 00:24:00.960 Poland and Poland also of Western culture is much greater. Here when it comes 230 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.839 to the Orthodox Church, which is an integral part of the Moscow Patriarchate, 231 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:10.440 we naturally understand that here the influence of Russia these Eurosceptic moods as much greater. 232 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:12.920 However, of course, it is not that these are two worlds. 233 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.000 There are. Firstly, a lot of contacts between Catholics and Orthodox. Thirty 234 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.599 years of independent Belarus have also made themselves felt when it comes to the attitude 235 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:29.000 of the Orthodox clergy, and Orthodox bishops also sympathize with both the national revival 236 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:36.359 of Belarusians and democratic aspirations, so here there is no such huge gap as 237 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:40.319 for the reformed Protestant churches. The general point here is that it is not 238 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.599 just one church, but a multitude of such relatively autonomous church communities. They 239 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.720 are more focused on evangelization as such, that is, social issues sometimes hit 240 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.319 their field of vision, while they are more focused on deepening their faith, 241 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:57.240 living through prayer, living the Word of God and so on. However, 242 00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:02.839 in the context of these recent event the voices of Protestants were also heard from 243 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:07.079 time to time, and they also engaged in various ways of making some kind 244 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:12.039 of redress or spiritual opposition to these atrocities of violence that happened just after the 245 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:37.240 presidential election. Tram Andrejadanovitch emphasizes not only the universal but also the civic direction 246 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:45.599 of the changes taking place. Yes, we observe such changes with identity, 247 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:51.039 and there is less and less of such a conservative national sound, more and 248 00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:53.599 more of this new civic momentum. I think we are on the way to 249 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:57.640 becoming a civic society every day, and this is only from a few months 250 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:03.519 ago. Despite the difference in what language they speak, what they look like, 251 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:07.200 where they come from from the east or west of Belarus, to what 252 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.559 social classes they belong, the elderly, the young, girls and boys, 253 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.599 they all have something in common, something civic. And this is probably the 254 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:19.839 first time I have observed such a level, and I am incredibly happy about 255 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:37.319 it. Observed way Hibbardo Ships podcasts are produced by Free Range Productions.