WEBVTT

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Hey everyone, it's Erica. I
have a quick announcement that I want everyone

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to take a few seconds to listen
to the Apex and the Abyss will be

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going on hiatus in the fall of
twenty nineteen. I know I have had

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a sporadic schedule the last year or
so, but typically I didn't see those

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delays coming, and to be honest, I didn't want them. However,

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this time around, I know that
my schedule of this fall is going to

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be jam packed and I will not
have as much time to dedicate to the

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show as I would like. I
want to state that this show is not

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going away. I just need a
small break to focus on spending time with

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family and my fall semester at school. During this break, I will be

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resetting and planning a restructuring of the
show. While I'll be busy with the

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lot this fall, I will still
be writing and working on cases. My

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end goal is to start releasing episodes
within a structured season and have scheduled time

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off. So with that update,
please don't unsubscribe, because, like I

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said, the show isn't going anywhere. I just need some time, like

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we all do at some point in
our lives. I wanted to give you

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guys full transparency as to why there
will be some radio silence in the next

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few months, and I hope you
will still keep sticking around with that on

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with the show. This episode of
The Apex and the Abyss contains graphic descriptions,

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audio, and language that may be
unsettling to some individuals. Listener discretion

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is advised. I recently got home
from my trip to Chicago. When I

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was there, I took part in
the first ever true crime podcast Festival.

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It was such an incredible time and
event. I was so thrilled to interact

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with listeners of this show and to
meet some of my friends. This was

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the first time I met any of
them face to face. This trip to

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Chicago ticked off quite a few firsts
for me. This was the first time

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I ever had flown on a plane, my first podcast festival, and my

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first time to Illinois. While there, I tried my best not to stick

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out like a tourist, but at
the same time, I wanted to see

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what made Chicago so great. Coming
from a popular city myself, I was

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curious as to what Chicago stand out
places, food and scenery was like.

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The food I divulged was incredible,
but that alone could be a podcast in

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and of itself. My husband and
I had the opportunity to check out Cloudgate,

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or the Bean as it's called to
some. This is an art piece

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by Anish Kapoor that is located in
Millennium Park. The piece itself is said

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to weigh around one hundred and ten
tons and is inspired by liquid mercury.

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It's a gorgeous piece of art and
far more breathtaking than I imagined it would

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be. We were also able to
check out the Art Institute of Chicago and

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see Van Goh, Chagal, Sarat
Hopper. The list goes on and on,

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but I couldn't pass up the opportunity
to see the Institute while on this

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trip. The art historian in me
would be highly disappointed. Chicago is a

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city that is famous for so many
things art, food, and we can't

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forget about Wrigley Field. But just
like any place, there is a grim

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underbelly of history that lurks in the
shadows as well. In fact, one

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of the world's most notorious and bile
serial killers set up shop there. You're

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listening to the Apex and the Abyss, and this is the story of John

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Wayne Gaysey. Gaycy, a building
contractor, was arrested in December nineteen seventy

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eight in connection with the disappearance of
a fifteen year old boy. Later that

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month, police began uncovering bodies from
a crawl space under Gaycey's suburban Chicago home.

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Twenty nine bodies were eventually found on
Gaysey's property, four others found in

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a nearby river. Gaycey had confessed
to the killings, but his lawyers claimed

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he was insane. Gasey said he
has four personalities. John Wayne Gaysey is

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an infamous serial killer who within six
years became responsible for the deaths of at

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least thirty three young men and boys. Gaysey would viciously rape, torture,

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and murder his victims, all within
his home, and then bury them either

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in his crawl space somewhere in his
yard, or dispose of them at a

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local river. Gayzy had already been
charged with a sex crime long before news

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would break about his serial killings,
and yet at the time that this story

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did break, it was shocking.
Gaysey was a popular individual in his community.

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He was a fairly successful businessman,
and he partooking charity events where he

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would dress up as a clown for
people's amusement. As human beings, we

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all have frayed edges, quirks,
and even odd practices that would either weird

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out or not make sense to another
person. But it is safe to say

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that people were not expecting to find
out what type of frayed edges John Wyne

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Gaysey had. His crimes are horrific
and quite graphic, so I'm going to

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issue another warning here, but as
always, before we dive into the appalling

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crimes of John Wayne Gaycy, we
need to take a few steps back and

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start at the very beginning in our
attempt to answer the elusive question as to

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why why did he do the things
that he did and what, if anything,

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contributed to him becoming the monster that
he was. He might be witnessing

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where the most horrible crimes, perhaps
in a century. John Wayne Gaysey was

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born in Chicago, Illinois, on
March seventeenth, nineteen forty two, to

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Marian and John Stanley Gaycy. John
Wayne Gaysy was the second out of three

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children that would be born to the
couple, and he was their only son.

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Throughout his childhood, Gaysey was close
to his sisters and mother. Their

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bond was easily formed and held.
However, when it came to his relationship

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with his father, closeness did not
come as easy. John Stanley was a

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World War One veteran, and now
that his service in the war was over,

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he became an auder repair machinist to
provide for his family. Marrying.

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Gayzy was a homemaker and very close
to her children. She dared best to

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protect them, specifically young John,
against her husband's drunken rages. It wouldn't

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be uncommon for John Stanley to come
home from work, disappear into his basement,

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and only emerge to target his son. John Stanley would beat his son

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for no reason whatsoever, sometimes to
the point where the young boy would pass

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out. John Stanley would even go
a step further and occasionally beat him with

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a razor strap. John Wayne Gayzy
would later state that one of his earliest

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memories in his life was of abating
his father was giving him when he was

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around four years old. Allegedly,
the young toler had gotten his hands on

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a car engine that his father was
putting together and took some of the components

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out to John Wayne Gayzy. He
was just playing, but his father didn't

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view it that way, so he
beat him. Despite the fact that the

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boy was beaten mercilessly by the hands
of his father, John Wayne Gazey still

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longed for his approval, however,
he would rarely get it. On top

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of the physical abuse he endured,
John Stanley would frequently put down his son.

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He would criticize him for everything,
his weight, his intelligence, and

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he would make derogatory and homophobic comments
to the boy. You see, John

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Wayne gaze suffered from a heart condition
early on in his life. It was

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severe enough that doctors told him that
he was to avoid practically all strenuous physical

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activity. This meant that the young
boy was forbidden to play sports and things

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of that nature. This was just
one more thing to add to John Stanley's

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long list of disdain for his son. Marian hated seeing her son being so

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poorly treated and did her best to
curb her husband's rages, but it was

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to no real avail. John Stanley
always found some way to take out all

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of his anger on John Wayne.
He would detest the closeness that his son

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had towards his wife and would often
call him a mama's boy, along with

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more disgusting remarks when John Wayne Gaycy
was about seven years old, he,

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along with another boy, would molest
a young girl. When John Stanley found

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out about this, he would severely
beat his son. Also around this time,

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John Wyne Gayzy would be molested by
a family friend. This friend would

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take young Gaysy for rides in his
truck and then the man would assault the

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boy. Gaysey would later state that
he never told his parents about this incident

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out of fear of his father's reaction. John Stanley often spoke of how his

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son would grow up to be a
homosexual, and John Wayne felt as though

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that this information may fuel that rage. Due to the fact that it had

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been a male who molested him,
he was afraid that his father would blame

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him. Over the course of the
next few years, not much would improve

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for John Wayne Gayzy. He was
eleven years old, he was struck hard

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on the head by a playground swing. This would cause him to have blackouts,

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a symptom he would experience for five
years until he went to the doctors

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and they noticed that he had a
bloodclot on his brain. Whether or not

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the swing had anything to do with
said bloodclot is up for debate, but

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luckily they were able to fix this
issue with medication. Taking a step back

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to his heart condition, the lack
of physical activity would cause him to gain

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weight. This extra weight would also
result in him being bullied while at school.

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Despite this, Gaysey did have a
handful of friends within the school and

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his neighborhood. During his adolescence,
he would have some more health issues.

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He would experience seizures and then labor. His appendix would burst, causing him

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to be hospitalized. However, John
Stanley believed that this condition was just aroused

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that his son was using to gain
attention. He would even go so far

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as to say the doctors were wrong
and that John Wayne Gaysy had no such

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conditions. Over the years, the
relationship between father and son never really changed,

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even as the young Gaysee grew into
a man. By the time he

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was in his mid to late teens, you would think that now that he

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was more evenly matched with his father, the beatings would either stop or the

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young Gaysee he would defend himself.
However, this never happened. Whenever John

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Stanley began to beat his son,
all John Wayne would do was put his

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hands up to protect his head.
He never struck his father back not once.

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When John Wayne Gaysee he turned eighteen, he dove into politics. He

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began working with the Democratic candidate in
his neighborhood as an assistant precinct captain.

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Around the same time, John Stanley
purchased a vehicle to give to his son.

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The car would be in John Stanley's
name and his son was required to

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make the monthly payments and pay for
the upkeep of the car, a reasonable

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request from any parent when they buy
a vehicle for their child. But like

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with everything that came from John Stanley, this gift was not just a kind

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gesture. It was a power move
over his son. You see, whenever

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John Wayne disobeyed his father or did
something that irked his father, John Stanley

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would take the car back, showing
to his son that he had zero control.

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However, after one particular incident of
confiscation and then returning the vehicle,

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John Wayne Gacy would get into his
car and leave his childhood home behind.

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He would drive almost eighteen hundred miles
to Las Vegas, Nevada. Once he

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got there, he managed to find
a job at a place called Palm Mortuary.

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He was an attendant at the mortuary
and he would stay at this job

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for three months. Gaysy, having
no place to go, was allowed to

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sleep on a cot near the embalming
room within the mortuary. One night,

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while alone, Gaysy decided to jump
into a casket with the body of a

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dead teenaged male. He would cuddle
the young man's body and hold them for

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some time before he realized how deeply
wrong it was. This wrong feeling sat

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in the pit of Gaysey's stomach,
so much so that he would reach out

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to his mother to see if he
was allowed to come home. After a

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brief discussion with her husband, John
Stanley, and Marian told their son he

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could come back to them in Illinois. Gaysey wasted no time and left practically

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the moment after he hung up the
phone with his parents. Upon his return

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to Chicago, Gaysey would begin class
as at Northwestern Business College, which is

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surprising since Gaysey had dropped out of
high school. However, he somehow managed

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to enroll in the school. After
he graduated from Business College in nineteen sixty

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three, Gaysey would get a management
training job at a shoe company. After

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about a year into the position,
Gaysey would be transferred to another store in

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Springfield, Illinois, which is about
three hours away from Chicago. He would

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briefly work as a salesman at this
store, but was quickly promoted to the

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manager of the department in which he
worked. Nineteen sixty four seemed to be

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a wonderful year for Gaycey. He
would become involved with an organization called the

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United States Junior Chamber, or the
jc's as it's commonly referred. This organization

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is for people from the ages of
eighteen to forty years old. Within this

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organization, you will gain leadership training
and a better understanding of civic organization,

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management skills and community service. He
was also extremely successful at his job.

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On another positive note, he would
get engaged to a woman by the name

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of Marilyn Myers. Gaysey would meet
Marilyn when he first came to Springfield.

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The two were co workers, and
after a nine month engagement, the pair

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would get married in September of nineteen
sixty four. Soon after the wedding,

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Gaysey's father in law asked him if
he wanted to manage three Kentucky Fried Chicken

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establishments that he owned. The only
catch to this proposition was that the location

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was in Waterloo, Iowa. John
and Marilyn agreed to this opportunity and made

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the almost three hundred mile trek to
Waterloo. Thankfully, they already had a

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place to stay. Marilynd's parents would
give the newlyweds the home they owned in

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Waterloo. The manager job was a
wonderful opportunity for the Gaysey family. John

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would make a high income salary and
the pair did not want for much.

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Upon moving to Waterloo, John joined
the local jc's. He enjoyed his time

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with the organization in Springfield and was
eager to continue on with the work in

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Waterloo, though his schedule was quite
hectic. He would spend almost fourteen hours

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a day managing all three KFC establishments, and then he would spend a few

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hours at night with the j c's. It wouldn't be uncommon for Gaysey to

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brag about all the things that he
did, how much money he had,

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and how he had endless ambition in
life. That's just who he was.

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But simply put, John Wing Geesy
was beloved by many people. He would

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partake him many fund raising projects and
would help out anyone in need. He

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was even given the nickname of the
Colonel because he was known for bringing fried

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chicken to the JC meetings. In
February of nineteen sixty six, John and

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his wife Marilyn would welcome their first
child into the world, a boy by

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the name of Michael Gaysey. A
little over a year later, the couple

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welcomed their second child, Christine Gaysey. It would be at this moment that

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John Wayne Gayzy received what he had
always longed for, the nod of approval

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from his father. John Stanley saw
how much his son had grown into a

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hard working family man and would pull
him aside to tell him how proud he

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was of him and that he was
sorry for all the horrors that he made

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him endure as a boy. John
Wyne Gayzy would recall that at this time

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in his life, happily married,
two beautiful children and the respect of his

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own parents, was the happiest time
of his life. Unfortunately, this happiness

208
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would not last long. From the
outside, John Wayne Gaysey lived a picture

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00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:19.039
perfect life, a beautiful wife,
two happy children, and a wonderfully successful

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00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:23.960
work life, but looks can be
deceiving. Before coming to Iowa, and

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while still in Springfield, John Gaysey
would engage in sexual activity with another man.

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00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.120
The man had been a member of
the Jay seas in Springfield, and

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00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.039
after many drinks, this man would
perform oral sex on Gaycy. Fast forward

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00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:41.679
to Waterloo, Gaysey would partake in
drug use, wife swapping, and frequent

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sex workers. As much as John
Wayne Gaycy appeared to be a loyal and

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devoted family man, he was actually
quite the opposite. It is also said

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00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:56.120
that Gaysey used his basement as a
designated hangout for his young employees to drink,

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playpool, and relax. The only
people who get invited to the basement

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00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.720
would be young men that he worked
with. At first, these hangouts were

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innocent, albeit a little weird to
an outside viewer. What grown man would

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want to hang around teenage boys,
But no one would suspect John Gaycy of

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anything nefarious. After some time,
John had groom some of these young men,

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he would begin to make advances on
them. After gaining the trust of

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these young boys and providing them alcohol
and drugs, he would attempt to engage

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in sexual activity with them. If
they told him now or rejected his offer,

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Gasey would brush off whatever advance he
made on his employee like he just

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made them in jest, like oh, I'm just kidding. However, in

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August of nineteen sixty seven, Gasey's
luck and the front he had put on

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for the public would shatter. John
Wayn Gasey would sexually assault a fifteen year

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old boy by the name of Donald
Worheys. Donald's father and Gacy worked alongside

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each other in the jac's At first, Gaysey got Donald to come over to

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his house on a pro alcohol and
to watch porn in his basement, but

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he led them there under false pretenses. For months, Gaysey would lure Donald

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into his basement, supply him with
alcohol, and forced the young man to

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perform oral sex. Gasy threatened Vorhees
and intimidated him not to reveal anything that

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was going on. During this time, Gaysy was subjecting many teenage boys to

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00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:30.319
similar abuses. He sometimes would pay
the boys fifty dollars each to engage in

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sexual acts with him, saying it
was for research. In March of nineteen

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sixty eight, Donald Vorhes told his
father what was going on in Gaysie's home.

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Donald's father called the authorities at once, and John Gaysy was arrested and

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charged with sodomy along with attempted sexual
assault of another teenage boy. Gaysey would

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00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.640
state that Donald's father was only accusing
him because he was running against him in

243
00:18:52.759 --> 00:19:00.039
elections. Amongst the jac's many people
believed that John Gaysy was innocent of the

244
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.359
accusations, but that didn't matter.
John Gaysey would be indicted with a sodomy

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00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:10.039
charge on May tenth, nineteen sixty
eight. This indictment did not deter Gaysey

246
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:15.279
from continuing on his depraved path.
It appears as though he would stop assaulting

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00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.319
young teenage boys for the time being, but he would use one in particular.

248
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:22.480
To do his bidding. Gasey would
get eighteen year old Russell Schroeder to

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00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:27.440
physically threaten Donald vorheis. Russell got
Donald to come with him to a secluded

250
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:33.039
area, where he proceeded to spray
mace into his eyes and beat him while

251
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.000
laying on the ground. Russell told
Donald that he was not to testify in

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00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.519
Gaysey's trial. Somehow Donald was able
to get away from Russell, and he

253
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.880
immediately told the authorities what had happened. Soon after the crime, Russell Schroeder

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was arrested, and he would confess
that Gaysey had offered him money to intimidate

255
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Donald. This would lay in Gaysy
additional charges, and he was forced to

256
00:19:53.880 --> 00:20:00.400
be evaluated by mental professionals. They
determined that he had anti so personality disorder,

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00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.559
but he was competent enough to stand
trial on his sodomy charge. On

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December third, nineteen sixty eight,
John Wayne Gaysey was found guilty of sodomy

259
00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.519
and sentenced to ten years in prison. On the same day that Gaysey was

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convicted, his wife, Marilyn,
filed for divorce, which was finalized by

261
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:22.000
the following September. Marilyn took her
two children and none of them ever spoke

262
00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:26.079
to John Wayne Gaycy again. It
is said that at some point Gaysey's children

263
00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.279
would change their surname to further distance
themselves from their father. Gasey would take

264
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.200
advantage of his time while in prison. He would obtain his high school diploma,

265
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.000
partake in the Prison to j C
program, and help recruit members,

266
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and he was also promoted to the
head cook in the kitchen within a few

267
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:48.680
months. I'm down, Gaysey,
I'm from Waterloo, Iowa, and you're

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00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:55.799
a man of fumbathority. Grea Well, I'm first cook in the kit and

269
00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.599
I run the morning meal in the
afternoon the morne. How long you've been

270
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:06.200
here? I've been here now a
year in about the week. Why am

271
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:10.519
I afting along to you? By
big up here? Well, I hope

272
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:17.440
to beginning outcome by the mate,
well good good. On December twenty fifth,

273
00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:22.160
nineteen sixty nine, John Stanley Gacy, John Wayne's father, would pass

274
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.960
away. This tragic life event would
shake Gaysey to his core. He would

275
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:30.599
request prison furlough to attend his father's
funeral, but this request would be denied.

276
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.279
About six months later, after his
father's death, John Wayne Gaycy would

277
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.920
be released from prison. Out of
the ten years sentence he was given,

278
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:44.960
he wound up serving only eighteen months
due to good behavior. He would be

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00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.039
given twelve months probation after his release, and he was ordered back to Chicago,

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Illinois, where he would live with
his mother. He would obtain a

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00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.920
job as a short order cook and
begin his new post conviction life. As

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the saying goes, a tiger can
not change his stripes, and John Wayne

283
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:07.599
Gacy was no different. By February
of nineteen seventy one, Gasey would sexually

284
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.799
assault another boy. Gasey would pick
up the boy from a bus station and

285
00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.160
offer to drive him home. Upon
arriving at the boy's home, Gasey would

286
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:19.720
try and force himself on to the
child. Somehow, the boy would escape

287
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:23.799
and Gasey would be charged. However, the charges would be dropped because the

288
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:27.000
boy would never show up to court. Due to the fact that there was

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00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.960
no conviction and that the case was
thrown out, the Parole Board of Iowa

290
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:36.920
never heard about Gaysey's violation. If
they had, he would have been placed

291
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:41.519
back in prison. After this incident, Gasey would buy a home on eighty

292
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:47.839
two thirteen West Summerdale Avenue, Chicago, Illinois, and have his mother move

293
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in with him. By August of
nineteen seventy one, Gasey would reignite in

294
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.680
old high school romance with a woman
by the name of Carol Hoff. The

295
00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.640
pair would become engaged in Carol,
along with her two young dogs, would

296
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:04.279
move into Gaysey's home. His mother
would eventually move out before the couple got

297
00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:10.400
married. John and Carroll wed on
July first, nineteen seventy two. However,

298
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:14.519
a week before the eye dous John
would be arrested again. A young

299
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.480
man by the name of Jackie de
would file a complaint with the police department

300
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:23.119
stating that Gaysey had been impersonating a
police officer. Gaysey had a fake badge

301
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:27.279
that he would quickly flash at Jackie. He then forced Jackie into his car

302
00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:32.480
and made him perform oral sex on
him. This case would go in Gaysey's

303
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:36.799
favor, yet again, the charges
would be dismissed once the court learned that

304
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:41.519
Jackie de attempted to extort money from
Gaysey in exchange for Jackie to drop the

305
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:47.319
charges against him. Gasey once again
slipped through the cracks of the legal system.

306
00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:51.359
He was a predator, and only
a little bit of digging would have

307
00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.279
proven that. But this incident wasn't
the end of Gaysey's crimes. In fact,

308
00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.119
things were about to escalate to a
whole new level. For fourteen years

309
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.720
of em frighting, the same battle
of all I want is the truth to

310
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:10.880
be learned that I did not give
it all the crime. Once John and

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00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.680
Carroll got married, Gasey would quit
his job as a short order cook and

312
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:19.279
try his hand at contracting. He
would start his own construction company called Painting,

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00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:26.480
Decorating and Maintenance Contractors or pd M
for short. Like with any small

314
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.799
business, the work Gaysey was getting
was small, minor repairs here and there,

315
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:34.359
but not long after the launch of
his business, Gaysey had employees working

316
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:40.880
on things like remodels, landscaping,
and interior design. Business, as they

317
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.039
say, was booming, but having
a wife and two step daughters wasn't enough

318
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:52.359
for Gaysey. Having a successful business
was not enough for John Wayne Gaysey.

319
00:24:52.880 --> 00:25:00.119
In nineteen seventy two, John would
commit his first known murder. It was

320
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:07.000
January second of nineteen seventy two.
Timothy mc cooy was around sixteen years old

321
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:11.960
and had been traveling after visiting friends
in Michigan on a Greyhound bus when he

322
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:17.000
made a stop in Chicago on his
way back home to Iowa. Gasey spotted

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00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:21.480
the young man and asked him if
he wanted to ride. Timothy accepted,

324
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:25.720
and Gasey would take him all over
Chicago to see the famous sights. Gasey

325
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:30.200
would then offer Timothy a place to
sleep that night. When the pair arrived

326
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:34.440
back at Gasey's home, the two
would allegedly engage in sexual activity. It

327
00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:38.960
is not known where Gasey's wife and
stepdaughters were at this time, but given

328
00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:41.839
what would occur next, it can
be assumed that they were not in the

329
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:47.200
home at the time. According to
Gaysey, when he awoke the next morning,

330
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:52.039
he saw Timothy standing in the doorway
holding a knife. Gacy, thinking

331
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.799
that Timothy was about to attack him, jumped up and ran at the boy.

332
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Gasey would state that Timothy raised his
hands up and accidentally cut Gaysy's arm

333
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.599
during the struggle. At some point, Gasey was able to get Timothy to

334
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:08.200
drop the knife, and Gasey proceeded
to grab the boy's head and slam it

335
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.519
against the wall and then kick him
while he was on the ground. Timothy,

336
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:17.880
in an attempt to defend himself,
would kick at Gaysey, further igniting

337
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:22.400
his blind rage. Gaycy would then
grab the knife that Timothy had dropped and

338
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.319
stab him multiple times in the chest
until McCoy died. After he killed Timothy,

339
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.079
Gaysey would later state that he was
drained of all his energy, but

340
00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:33.640
at the same time, he was
sexually thrilled in a way he had never

341
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.240
felt before in his life. He
understood in that moment that for him,

342
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:45.000
death was the ultimate thrill. Gasey
would claim that he killed Timothy McCoy in

343
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.279
self defense. Whether that is true
or not is entirely up for debate.

344
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.160
What we do know is that the
reason that Timothy had the knife, was

345
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.039
that he was in the middle of
cooking breakfast for himself and Gaysy, most

346
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:02.000
likely as a thank you for treating
him so kindly the US day. When

347
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:04.960
Gacy entered the kitchen after the stabbing, he noticed that the table had been

348
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:10.400
set for two and that eggs and
bacon were on the counter. Gacy would

349
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.960
take Timothy McCoy's body and bury him
in the crawl space beneath his home.

350
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.720
Then eventually he would put a layer
of concrete on top of him in the

351
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:22.160
hopes that this crime would never be
discovered. However, Timothy would just be

352
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.880
the first body to enter the crawl
space. This crawl space would soon turn

353
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:33.920
into a graveyard. At least today
found six more bodies under the John Gacy

354
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:38.279
house in Norwood Park Township near Desk
Plains, Illinois. The six bodies bring

355
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:42.680
the total found under this house and
garage to fifteen, all appearing to have

356
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:48.720
been teenaged boys and young men,
and police digging cautiously with garden tools say

357
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:52.960
they've now covered only one fourth of
the space under the house. By nineteen

358
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.960
seventy three, John had many people
in his employee A large majority of his

359
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:03.519
employees were young men. Some were
even teenagers who were just trying to make

360
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:08.400
money for themselves, most likely for
the first time in their lives. Gaysey

361
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:12.640
would travel to Florida to inspect a
property he recently purchased, and on this

362
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:18.480
trip he would bring along a teenaged
employee with him. Once they were back

363
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.400
at the hotel after traveling, Gaysey
would overpower the boy and rape him.

364
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.599
For the remainder of the trip,
the youth would not spend time alone with

365
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:30.359
gay Sy. He went so far
as sleeping on the beach to avoid sleeping

366
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.880
in the same room as him.
When they returned to Chicago, they briefly

367
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.880
parted ways until one afternoon while Gaysey
was doing yard work, the young man

368
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:42.240
who had been raped drove to his
house and mercilessly beat up John Wayne Gaysy

369
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:47.519
until his mother in law stepped in
between them. Gaysey would tell those who

370
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:51.680
asked that the reason for this employee's
outburst was due to the fact that Gaysy

371
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.960
had refused to pay him for work
he had done. Gaysey would state that

372
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.039
the work was not good and that
the young man didn't earn his wage.

373
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:04.480
According to Gaysey, he didn't commit
another murder until nineteen seventy four. John

374
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.440
would claim that he did not know
this boy's name or h at the time

375
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.960
of the murder. The details surrounding
this second crime are far and few between.

376
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:15.960
All Gaysey would stay at a later
date was that he raped and killed

377
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:21.440
the young boy, who was somewhere
between sixteen to eighteen years old, and

378
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:25.599
he strangled him to death. Once
the boy was dead, he placed his

379
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:27.759
body in the closet, where he
would remain for a short amount of time.

380
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:33.279
During the interim before he was buried
in Gaysey's back yard, the boy's

381
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:37.799
body began to decompose, and what
some people aren't aware is that when a

382
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.359
person dies, the body begins to
leak fluid out of its orifices, which

383
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.319
is exactly what happened in this case. The fluid that expelled from the young

384
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:49.599
boy's body got on the floor and
stained the carpet within the closet. So

385
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.839
from then on, if Gaysy had
to keep a body above ground for some

386
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.599
time, he would stuff rags,
socks, and other cloth eggams in the

387
00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:03.480
victim's mouth and in their underwear to
prevent the leakage from happening again. By

388
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.680
nineteen seventy five, Gaysey would enter
in what he would call his cruising years.

389
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:11.279
He would state that nineteen seventy five
was the year in which he really

390
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:15.799
began hunting for victims. His obsession
with the thrill of killing had grown to

391
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:21.440
an insatiable level since the murder of
Timothy McCoy. By this point, he

392
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:25.559
had already gotten away with killing two
people, possibly more that we don't even

393
00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:30.000
know about. Given the fact that
Gaysey was an arrogant and powerful man,

394
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:34.319
it is safe to assume that he
believed that he was invincible. What would

395
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:38.400
later become an unsettling fact was that
in nineteen seventy five as well, Gasey

396
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.440
would begin dressing up as a clown, a clown in which he named Pogo.

397
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:48.559
Gasey would join a group called the
Jolly Jokers, an organization of men

398
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:52.000
who would dress up as clowns and
perform for fundraiser in other events. Gasey

399
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.480
loved playing Pogo. It tapped into
his inner child. However, some of

400
00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.000
his colleagues found him to be unsettling, especially the way he would put on

401
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:04.559
his makeup. He had sharp edges
around his mouth. It made him look

402
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:10.920
sinister versus friendly. Nineteen seventy five
was also the year that Gaysey would tell

403
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:14.079
his wife, Carol, that they
were no longer going to be intimate with

404
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:17.960
one another. The pair would have
sex on Mother's Day that year, and

405
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.480
Gasey would inform her that it would
be the last time. Gaysy was rarely

406
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:25.920
home to begin with. He would
tell his wife that he was busy working

407
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.240
and that's why he did not come
home until the early hours of the morning,

408
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:33.720
when in fact it is more likely
that Gaysey was out cruising. Carol

409
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.519
was aware that her husband was bisexual, and she would find things like porn

410
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:41.440
and noticed that gasy only surrounded himself
with very young men quite frequently, so

411
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.720
it was no secret to her as
to who he was sharing his nights with.

412
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:52.119
Nineteen seventy five also brought about huge
growth in Gaysy's business. He was

413
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.000
working long days, sometimes upwards of
sixteen hours, and hiring more and more

414
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.119
people to carry out his new contracts. Most to the employees who did the

415
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:05.160
hard labor consisted of high school aged
teenagers, with a handful of men in

416
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:08.839
their early twenties. In May of
nineteen seventy five, Gasey would hire a

417
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:14.079
fifteen year old boy by the name
of Anthony Antonucci. A few months into

418
00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:16.920
working for Gasey, Anthony would injure
his foot on the job, so the

419
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:22.000
following day, Gasey visited him at
his home. At the time, Anthony

420
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:27.359
was home by himself. Gasey gave
Anthony alcohol. After some time, Gasey

421
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:31.160
would overpower Anthony and handcuff his hands
behind his back. Gasey would exit the

422
00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:35.920
room for a moment, and this
gave Anthony enough time to free his one

423
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:38.759
hand from a loose cuff. When
Gasey re entered the room, Anthony,

424
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.920
who was a member of his high
school's wrestling team, attacked Gasey. Anthony

425
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.960
was able to get the handcuff keys
from Gacy and then in turn placed Gacy's

426
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:53.960
hands behind his back and handcuff him. Incredible instincts to have in a horrifying

427
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:00.559
situation and with an injured foot while
on the ground, Gasey became unhinged.

428
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:04.480
He screamed threats at Anthony, and
then the threats turned in to please for

429
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.079
him to take the cuffs off of
him. He calmly stated he would leave

430
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:12.319
and not come back if Anthony just
let him go. He would even say,

431
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.680
not only are you the only one
who has gotten out of the cuffs,

432
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:21.160
you got them on me. Eventually, Anthony let Gaysey go, But

433
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.319
let's go back for a second to
what Gasey said to him. Not only

434
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:28.920
are you the only one who has
gotten out of the cuffs, you got

435
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:34.160
them on me, the only one, meaning that there had been others before

436
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.119
him. At this point in the
timeline, Gaysey has only allegedly killed two

437
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:43.039
people, further propelling the idea that
there is possibly more victims out there that

438
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.000
we just don't know about. On
July twenty first, nineteen seventy five,

439
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:51.720
a week or so after Gaysey attempted
to harm Anthony, seventeen year old John

440
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:57.440
Bukovitch would disappear. Bukovitch was not
happy with Gaysey, him, along with

441
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:00.920
two friends, would confront Gaysey over
the fact that he had not paid him

442
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:05.759
his earnings for going on two weeks. John threatened to go to the authorities

443
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.239
and tell them about the incident.
He would even state that he would inform

444
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:13.639
them of the fact that no taxes
were being deducted from their pay. John

445
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:16.559
took his job seriously because he loved
putting what he earned into his car.

446
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:21.239
He loved to raise and work on
his vehicle, and at seventeen years old,

447
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:24.599
those parts don't come cheap. Under
Gasey's employ John made good money,

448
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:29.960
but Gaysy was known for halting payments
to some of his employees as to keep

449
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.079
more money for himself. The fact
that John threatened Gaysy sent him into a

450
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.239
blind rage. After arguing for a
bit longer, John and his friends left.

451
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:42.079
They weren't getting anywhere with Gaysey and
there was no point in staying.

452
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:46.320
The following day, Gaysy invited John
over to his home. At this time,

453
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:50.679
Gaysey's wife, Carol, and his
two step daughters were in Arkansas,

454
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:54.519
so the pair were in Gaysy's home
all alone. Gaysy would present John with

455
00:34:54.559 --> 00:35:00.599
a pair of handcuffs and tell him
he knew a trick. This would later

456
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:06.199
be dubbed the Infamous handcuff Trick.
It was very simple. Gasey would first

457
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:09.280
place the handcuffs on his own wrists
and then spin around. By the time

458
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:13.880
he was facing his audience again,
the handcuffs would be dangling off one of

459
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.280
his wrists. Those who saw the
trick would ask how did he do that,

460
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:22.719
to which Gasey would reply, I'll
show you the same scenario is most

461
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:28.199
likely what occurred with John. Gasey
was able to place the handcuffs on the

462
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.760
young boy and then inevitably kill him. It's hard to imagine what John and

463
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:37.679
Gaysie's subsequent victims would endure after they
realized they were trapped. Once Gasey placed

464
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:43.239
the handcuffs on his victims, he
would state the trick is you have to

465
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:46.599
have the key. After this,
Gasey would mercilessly torture, rape, and

466
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:52.119
kill his captive, sometimes in slow
and painful ways. Gasey would use a

467
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:57.480
rope to typically strangle his victims.
He specifically would use a tourniquet knot,

468
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:00.639
wherein he would tie a rope around
the young man's neck, place one knot,

469
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:05.840
then tie another knot on top of
the first one. Then he would

470
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:08.559
slip a thin piece of wood in
between the knots and turn. The more

471
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:14.000
you turn the tiger the rope becomes, inevitably cutting off the person's air supply

472
00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:21.760
and killing them. John's parents would
inform the police that their son was missing

473
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.320
and implored them to check out Gaysy. Due to the fact that John's friends

474
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:30.840
informed his parents that him and Gaysey
had gotten into a terrible fight before he

475
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.920
went missing, but nothing ever came
of this request. John's father, Marco

476
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.639
would reach out to Gaysey himself,
and Gaysey would state that he had no

477
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:43.519
idea what happened to John. He
would admit that John had come to his

478
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:47.199
home and an argument ensued, but
once he left, that's where his knowledge

479
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:52.800
of John's whereabouts ceased. He would
also tell Marco that the police had never

480
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:58.800
spoken to him about John's disappearance either. John's parents would ask the police dozens

481
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.920
of times to keep looking at gay
Cy, but they wouldn't. Not long

482
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:07.159
after John's disappearance, Gaysey and his
second wife would file for divorce. The

483
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:12.639
marriage at this point was non existent, they spent no time together, and

484
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.679
they had not been intimate for at
least a year. Carol and her daughters

485
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:20.599
would remain in the house for a
short time, but eventually the three left

486
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:25.519
eighty two thirteen West Summerdale Ave in
early nineteen seventy six, leaving Gaycy to

487
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:35.159
have the entire house to do whatever
he pleased. Hailed a glorious streaming service

488
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Get an extended thirty day free trial
with Code true Crime. In April

496
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:27.360
of nineteen seventy six, Gasey would
murder Darryl Sampson. The following month,

497
00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.199
on May fourteenth, Gasey would murder
two young men On the same day,

498
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:36.679
Randall Reffitt was last seen walking home
from school. After that, he disappeared

499
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:40.519
into thin air. According to reports, Randall died from asphyxiation due to a

500
00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:45.239
rag being placed into his mouth as
a gag. Within a few hours of

501
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:51.800
killing Randall, Gasey would also murder
Samuel Stapleton. He would referred to knights

502
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:54.480
that he killed more than one person
as a double Over the course of the

503
00:38:54.519 --> 00:39:00.440
summer of nineteen seventy six, Gasey
would murder Michael Bonnen, William Harold,

504
00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:05.760
James Hackins's son, and Rick Johnston. Each young man was between the ages

505
00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:08.519
of fourteen to eighteen years old at
the time of their deaths. Within this

506
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:13.880
group of victims is also an unidentified
male who was murdered around the same time.

507
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:19.400
Currently, his name is still unknown. Towards the end of August of

508
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:22.360
nineteen seventy six, Gaysey would invite
one of his employees to move in with

509
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:27.480
him. Eighteen year old David Cram
had spent time in the army and knew

510
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.920
how to defend himself. Soon after
he moved into Gaysey's home, he would

511
00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:36.519
be conned into putting on those infamous
handcuffs. The pair had been drinking,

512
00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:39.719
and Gaysy used his charm and magic
trick spiel to fool the young man.

513
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:45.639
While he had him handcuffed, Gasey
would inform Cram of his intentions of raping

514
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.039
him. David was somehow able to
escape the handcuffs and hit Gaysey in the

515
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:54.360
face, knocking him to the floor. Despite this whole thing. David still

516
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:59.199
lived with Gaysy for another month.
Perhaps he thought it was just a sick

517
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:02.320
joke gone raw. Maybe they had
drank just a little bit too much and

518
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.320
Gaysey hadn't meant what he said,
or whatever. Lie. David told himself

519
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:10.480
to not accept that Gaysey, a
man who employed him and gave him a

520
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:17.760
roof over his head, wasn't a
horrible man. However, Gasey would attempt

521
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:22.159
to attack David again. He would
let himself into David's bedroom and attempt to

522
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:27.920
rape him. Gaysey, while trying
to overpower David, would say, Dave,

523
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:30.760
you really don't know who I am. Maybe it would be good for

524
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:35.719
you to give me what I want. David was able to fight Gaysey off

525
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.159
to the point where he would give
up and leave the bedroom. After this

526
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:44.840
encounter, David Craham would leave Gaysey's
home and quit PDM Contractors. He would

527
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.519
work for him every once in a
while, but cut ties as a full

528
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:52.239
time employee. Not long after David
Craham left the Gaysy household, another individual

529
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:55.880
by the name of Michael Rossy would
move in. In some reports, it

530
00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:00.320
states that Michael ross and David Graham
knew what Gaysey was. In fact,

531
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:05.639
these reports would also state that they
were accomplices in some of the rapes,

532
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:09.880
tortures, and murders. Not many
people escaped the grasp of John Wayne Gaycy.

533
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:14.360
One who did recalled that there were
two men in the room when he

534
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:17.440
was being raped and tortured. But
we will touch on that theory in a

535
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:22.000
little bit. Some people believe that
the notion that John Wayne Gaycy had an

536
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:27.079
accomplice is outlandish. Why would anyone
go along with such a thing? More

537
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:30.039
importantly, why would a person not
tell anyone what he was up to?

538
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:34.960
Perhaps he will think back to episode
eight of The Apex and the Abyss.

539
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:38.639
In this episode, we covered the
story of Dean Quarrel, a man in

540
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:44.679
Texas, along with two male accomplices, Elmer Wayne Henley Junior and David Owen

541
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:49.320
Brooks, would kidnap, torture,
rape, and murder at least twenty eight

542
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.039
young men and boys. So is
it really that far off that this same

543
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.880
situation could have happened in a different
time and state. It should also be

544
00:41:55.960 --> 00:42:00.639
knowed that some of the victims were
allegedly kidnapped when n Gasey was working or

545
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:05.840
out of town. Now, these
facts could be misconstrued a false memory,

546
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.039
or that Gaysy himself was lying about
his whereabouts, or it could be proof

547
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:13.920
that he had helped just like Dean
Coral did. The more you compare the

548
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:16.000
two to one another, the more
it appears that they are cut from the

549
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:23.960
same cloth. Only you threatened me
with that he had had guns in the

550
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:30.639
house, and that if he had
to if I went to the police or

551
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:38.880
told anyone about his advances upon me, that I would be endangered with that,

552
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:45.599
and that he wanted me to realize
how easy it would have been for

553
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:51.400
him to kill me right then and
there. Towards the end of the summer

554
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:55.039
in nineteen seventy six to March of
nineteen seventy eight, John Wyn Gasey would

555
00:42:55.119 --> 00:43:00.440
kill well over a dozen young men
and boys. These victims were all buried

556
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:05.039
in Gaysey's crawl space. There were
so many bodies down there that he began

557
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:07.920
stacking them within the graves. Now, if you've ever seen a photo of

558
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.639
John Wayne Gaysey, and you've seen
the picture of his crawl space, it's

559
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.719
kind of a tight fit. It
would be difficult for him to comfortably maneuver

560
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:21.159
around down there. So after a
certain point, he would get his young

561
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:24.679
employees to dig holes in there.
He would tell them exactly where to dig

562
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.199
and how deep. He made sure
they stayed within a certain frame so they

563
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:32.880
would not come across other bodies.
The excuse he would give them as to

564
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:38.119
why they were digging was that he
needed more storage space, which horrifically wasn't

565
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:43.239
a lie. He just didn't tell
them what he was storing down there.

566
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:47.559
In nineteen seventy seven, Gasey would
kidnap a man by the name of Robert

567
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:52.079
Donnelly. He would force nineteen year
old Robert into his car at gunpoint.

568
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:57.679
Gasey would take Robert back to his
home and for hours he would torture and

569
00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:01.800
rape the young man, beat him
mercilessly, and would dunk his head into

570
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:08.199
a bathtub filled with water over and
over again. Robert begged Gaysy to just

571
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:14.679
kill him. The pain he was
experiencing was unbearable and he couldn't take it

572
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:19.800
anymore, but Gaysey wouldn't. Once
he was done with Robert, he would

573
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:22.960
drop him off near where Robert worked, and then Gasy simply drove away.

574
00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:29.960
Robert immediately contacted the police and told
them what happened. When Gaysey was questioned,

575
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.639
he told the authorities that their interaction
had been consensual. It is not

576
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.639
clear why he left Robert alive,
but it would not be the last time

577
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:43.599
Gaysey did this. The beginning of
the end started in March of nineteen seventy

578
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.320
eight for John Wayne Gaysy. He
would kidnap a twenty six year old man

579
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:51.840
by the name of Jeffrey Rignal.
Jeffrey would get into Gaysey's car and Gaysey

580
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:55.880
immediately attacked him. He would place
a chloroform soaked rag over Jeffrey's nose and

581
00:44:55.960 --> 00:45:00.320
mouth until he fell unconscious. What
Jeffrey he would endure over the course of

582
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:06.320
the next few hours is unimaginable.
Gasey would tie Rignal on something he would

583
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:09.760
call the rack. This would be
another parallel to Deane Quarrel. Like him,

584
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:15.079
this rack was essentially a torture device. Gasey would suspend the victim in

585
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:19.440
the air by chains. Their arms
would be placed through holes in wood boards,

586
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:22.159
allowing them to be hoisted in the
air under their armpits. It is

587
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:27.599
suspected that Gaysey used this instrument of
torture on a majority of his victims,

588
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:34.519
Gaysey would severely abuse Jeffrey. Not
only did he brutally rape him and scream

589
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:37.679
you love it every time he sexually
assaulted him, but he would flog him

590
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:42.599
with a whip, burn him with
candles, and insert sex toys into his

591
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:47.360
orifices. During the entire ordeal,
Jeffrey Wrignal would lose consciousness, either due

592
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:52.159
to the pain or because Gaysey would
correform him over and over again. Once

593
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:55.519
he was done, Gasey would take
Jeffrey and drop him off at Lincoln Park.

594
00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:01.079
This park was located about thirty minutes
from Gaysey's home Summerdale Avenue. When

595
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:07.079
Rignal woke up, he was disoriented
and in unbelievable pain, but he was

596
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:10.719
able to muster up enough strength to
walk to his girlfriend's house. She would

597
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.960
take him to the hospital and he
would stay there to recover for almost a

598
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.960
week. While there, he would
report his attack to the police. He

599
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:22.159
told them what Gaysey had done to
him and that there was another man in

600
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:25.480
the room with them that he did
not know, partaking in the abuse.

601
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:32.119
The police were hesitant to believe Jeffrey's
story for some reason, so Rignal would

602
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:37.519
stake out the location he believed his
assault happened. Eventually, Riggnal would find

603
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:43.719
eighty two thirteen Summerdale av and point
the police in the direction of Gaysey John

604
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:46.079
Wayn. Gaysey was arrested and was
set to stay in trial for the battery

605
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:51.000
of Jeffrey Rignal. However, Gaysey
would not stay in jail while he awaited

606
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:58.119
trial. On December eleventh, nineteen
seventy eight, Gaysey would be in Desplaine's

607
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:00.840
pharmacy to speak to the owner of
out of contract the pair were working out

608
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:07.400
a clerk in the pharmacy. Fifteen
year old Robert Pist would overhear that Gaysy

609
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:12.320
hired boys his age and that he
paid five dollars an hour, which seemed

610
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:15.960
like a lot compared to the two
fifty an hour Robert currently made working at

611
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:20.639
the pharmacy. When Gasey left,
Robert would tell his mother that he was

612
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:23.800
going to go after him to talk
about a job, but he wouldn't give

613
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:28.480
her the name of who he was
speaking to. He told her he wouldn't

614
00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:31.679
be long, but this was the
last time Robert Pist would be seen alive.

615
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.679
After some time, when Robert did
not return, his family would file

616
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.440
a report with the police department,
stating that he was missing. After some

617
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:45.519
investigation, the police were able to
find out that Gaysey was allegedly the last

618
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:50.639
known person to speak with Robert Pist. The police would go to Gasey's home

619
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:53.000
to see what he knew and stated
that he offered to give a job to

620
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:58.079
Robert Pist, but may have spoken
to him while he was in the store

621
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:02.840
Gaysey was playing. The police asked
him to make an official statement, which

622
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:07.280
he agreed to. He simply asked
if he could come in later to do

623
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:09.840
so. He was busy at the
moment. The police had no problem with

624
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:15.480
this and they left Gaysy's home.
At about three am the following morning,

625
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:20.199
John Wayne Gaysy would walk into the
police station to issue his official statement on

626
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:23.360
Robert Pist. He was covered in
dirt and mud. He claimed he was

627
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:28.119
in a car accident to explain his
appearance. However, it is safe to

628
00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:32.760
assume that he spent the evening disposing
of Robert Pist. The police were finally

629
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:37.519
highly suspicious of Gaysey, especially after
what they saw was on his record and

630
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:42.840
the fact that he had a pending
case of baggery. They believed that he

631
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:46.480
knew more When it came to Robert
Pist's disappearance. What they didn't realize is

632
00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:50.800
that they were about to uncover a
horror that would be heard around the world.

633
00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:57.639
The police would issue a sir to
warrant of Gaysey's residence. They would

634
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.480
find many suspicious items within his home, like driver's license that didn't belong to

635
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:06.679
him, a class ring from a
nineteen seventy five class from a local school,

636
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:09.519
clothes that were far too small for
Gaysy to fit into, and a

637
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:14.719
slew of other items that just didn't
seem to fit. The most important piece

638
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:17.239
of evidence they would find in Gaysy's
home would be a receipt in his kitchen

639
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:22.400
from the pharmacy that Robert Pist worked
at. This receipt was placed in Robert's

640
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:27.920
jacket by a girl he worked with. She had borrowed the outerwaar briefly before

641
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:30.760
Robert put it back on to follow
Gaysty out of the pharmacy. During this

642
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:35.480
search of his home, the police
would also confiscate one of Gaysy's cars,

643
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:39.199
specifically his Oldsmobile, and officials then
assigned men to keep an eye on him

644
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:44.920
for twenty four hours a day.
If you were Gaysy and had committed such

645
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:47.599
horrific crimes, you would think that
he would be shaking in his boots,

646
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:53.039
but he wasn't. Like previously stated, after the first two murders, Gaysy's

647
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:57.920
arrogance seemed to overtake him, and
it seems like he truly thought that he

648
00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:01.320
would never be caught. He would
toy with the surveillance teams, speed through

649
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:05.719
red lights as they were tailing him, accost them from afar, and even

650
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:09.800
on some instances, offered to cook
them breakfasts. Suffice it to say that

651
00:50:09.880 --> 00:50:14.679
those watching Gaysey all day long noted
that he was an odd fellow to say

652
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:19.760
the very least. A particular comment
seemed to stick with a team of investigators

653
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.800
who took Gacy up on his offer
of a meal. One day. While

654
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:24.920
they were eating, Gasey would just
simply state, you know, clowns,

655
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:30.960
they can get away with murder.
But soon after the investigation began, Michael

656
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:34.159
Rossy, one of the young men
who had lived with Gaysey and worked for

657
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:37.920
him, informed police that two young
men who had worked with Gaysey had disappeared

658
00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:43.800
too. They would eventually interview David
Kraham as well, and he would tell

659
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:47.159
them about how Gaysey tried to rape
him multiple times. Both boys would be

660
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:52.360
interviewed multiple times, and as they
were starting to realize that Gaysey had connections

661
00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:57.199
to multiple disappearances, they began asking
the pair who knew Gaycey tougher questions.

662
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:00.400
The interview would escalate to the point
where invest the Giggers would ask them if

663
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:05.480
Gaysy had killed anybody, where would
he hide their body, to which they

664
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:12.079
both would reply the crawl space.
The police were finally closing in and the

665
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:16.079
air of arrogance that Gaysy once had
was starting to diminish. It appeared as

666
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:21.480
though that he wasn't sleeping. He
began to look on kempt and his friendly

667
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:27.079
demeanor was almost non existent. Police
would return to Gaysy's home to search it

668
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:30.199
again after they confirmed that the receipt
they had in evidence had been on Robert

669
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:35.039
Pie the day he went missing,
and they also wanted to look for more

670
00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:38.239
evidence when they realized that the class
ring traced back to a missing boy by

671
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:43.599
the name of John Sizig. Currently, all the information and evidence they had

672
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:49.480
was circumstantial. They needed more.
During this search, they noticed something different,

673
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:52.039
a horrible smell of decay, was
coming from the heating vents in the

674
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:58.320
house, something that wasn't picked up
on as strongly as before. During the

675
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:01.920
first search, there was a mile, but Gaysy gave multiple excuses, like

676
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:07.000
it was the drain, the trash
or dog waste that had dried up on

677
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:10.159
the floor. But this time the
odor was stronger and more prevalent. The

678
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:15.840
smell of death is incomparable, and
the police knew something was seriously wrong.

679
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:20.360
However, they didn't check the crawl
space that night. It's not clear why,

680
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:25.719
but they would eventually just leave.
Search for victims of John Wayne Gaysey

681
00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:30.079
may be shifted to the basement of
this building on Chicago's near north Side.

682
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:37.199
A carpenter has told authorities that when
Gaysey's contracting company remodeled the basement in nineteen

683
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:40.760
seventy six, it had a bad
smell, which Gaysey blamed on dead rats.

684
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:46.119
The subcontractor also claimed that Gasey worked
at night in the basement pouring concrete.

685
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:51.519
So far, the twenty eight bodies
attributed to Gaysey were found exactly where

686
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:54.599
Gasey told authorities to look, in
the crawl space of his suburban home,

687
00:52:54.920 --> 00:52:59.719
or in a nearby river. There
has been no mention till now of any

688
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:06.559
other location. On December twenty second, nineteen seventy eight, while already in

689
00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:12.039
police custody, John WAYN Gaysey would
confess to murder to the authorities. He

690
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:15.280
told them he started back in nineteen
seventy two and was not able to stop.

691
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:20.199
He claimed that the young men and
boys in which he murdered were either

692
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:23.880
runaways or sex workers, which wasn't
true. Yes, some of them may

693
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:29.159
have been runaways, but on the
whole he was acquainted with the young men,

694
00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:31.719
or if he wasn't, he would
lure them into his car or home.

695
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:36.199
He would repeat the same information to
the police as he did to the

696
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:38.519
lawyers. He told them how he
killed them and what he did to his

697
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:44.320
victims. He even spoke of future
plans of killing. He knew he was

698
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:47.079
running out of space, so he
was considering doing some construction at his home

699
00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:52.480
to have more room to dispose of
the corpses. He had recently run out

700
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:57.719
of room and began dumping the bodies
by the river. Gasey would take the

701
00:53:57.719 --> 00:54:00.760
police back to his house and show
them where the body were buried. Most

702
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:04.639
of the bodies were under the crawl
space, but there was one under his

703
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:08.320
garage and another bird by his barbecue
pit. Gacy would even draw a sketch

704
00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:13.159
of his crawl space so investigators knew
where to dig. He would place stick

705
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:16.280
figures with in circles to show which
ones were graves and how many people were

706
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:21.320
in the one spot. Over the
course of the investigation, thirty three bodies

707
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:24.960
would be recovered. Twenty nine victims
were found within Gacy's home, and the

708
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:31.519
other four were thrown in or around
the river of South Chicago. What kind

709
00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:37.519
of man was mister Gaycy? Kind
of a man? How would you characterize

710
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:40.440
him? Oh? I don't know
I characterize I thought he was a pretty

711
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:45.360
fine person, very good, very
or I very very amiable. I liked

712
00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:49.519
them even I liked them. I
feel sorry for him that this has happened,

713
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:52.119
But he's been a wonderful person,
a very generous person to us.

714
00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:55.360
Now, what kind of a what
kind of a neighbor? Was he?

715
00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:00.360
Very good neighbor. If it was
a case that I needed a borrow a

716
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:02.239
tool from the man, because he
had many good tools, he was more

717
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:07.400
than willing to let me have anything
I wanted anything. Now, of course,

718
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:10.599
we know that the problem here is
the story of these bizarre occurrences murders

719
00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:15.559
right next door to your home.
Did you ever hear anything that would indicate

720
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:19.480
to you that there was foul play
going on over there? Never a sound

721
00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:22.159
another sound, never not even though
you know, like they've asked about screaming

722
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:24.920
or anything. Never a sound out
of that house. It's always been a

723
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:30.199
quiet house. Never any noise or
anything, no other than maybe doing some

724
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:34.760
construction work at night outside of little
loudness that way, sawing and things like

725
00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:37.920
that. But I attributed that to
his work. We ask you something else

726
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:43.639
he said about he seemed to have
odd hours. Would you explain to me

727
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:46.159
what kinds of things you heard going
on at night or whatever? Well,

728
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:51.119
it would be basically loading his vehicles. His trucks were coming constantly, and

729
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:53.119
at all hours at a night they
would come, and that might be strange,

730
00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:58.480
but I attributed that to work.
His remindling. Sometimes they'd load a

731
00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:00.360
truck up at one two in the
more and that off it would go.

732
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:04.199
I never knew where it went to. But the lads were gotten a truck

733
00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:07.039
and took it away, or they
would come back, but with material.

734
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:10.039
These were young men, for they
were always young men that they had working

735
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:15.559
for him. Now, did you
ever have any indication that there was any

736
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:19.119
kind of foul play going on?
He was supposedly homosexual. Was there any

737
00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:22.320
indication of that? No, there
never was anything. I only had my

738
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:25.199
own suspicions of why he was always
surrounded by some of the young people,

739
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:30.480
always young males, never older persons, Always young people. Did you ever

740
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:36.360
talk to him about this late night
activity, that kind of thing only at

741
00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:38.400
night if they got too carried away
to get a little too noisy. I've

742
00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:42.199
gotten up at one thirty and two
in the morning and when he was sawing

743
00:56:42.199 --> 00:56:45.039
out there, and I would ask
him to see, said he's sorry,

744
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:46.920
yet he said, I'll stop right
away, you know, because I had

745
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:49.639
to get up for work the next
day. I said, John, that's

746
00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:52.079
annoying to have you sawing what a
power saw in a garage at one two

747
00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:55.119
in the morning, and he'd done
that out of a number of occasions.

748
00:56:55.880 --> 00:57:00.880
How do you feel now thinking back
on those sence that noise late at night,

749
00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:06.519
and then knowing what you know now
about these murders. Well, now

750
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.239
I kind of see some of the
stuff that was going on. It probably

751
00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:13.760
worth something pertaining to what he was
doing a number of times he'd come home

752
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:15.679
with his car now at night,
at hours, at odd hours of the

753
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:21.000
night. He had some big old
street lamp that he didn't stalled up in

754
00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:22.039
front, and that was quite right. He'd go in the house, shut

755
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:24.719
the light off, and then he
went to his oles and he seemed to

756
00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:28.960
be struggling. I'd never seen what, but he'd be at the door open

757
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:30.639
for fifteen minutes. I thought,
well, what the hell did he just

758
00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:35.199
take the thing in and that was
it. But he'd be there and finally

759
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:37.440
I'd give up watching and going the
house and the door was closed. But

760
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:39.440
you know, it's hard to tell
what he was struggling with, but he

761
00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:43.800
seemed to have a problem get Then
later on the night would come on on

762
00:57:43.880 --> 00:57:46.880
the outside, and then it would
be two or three in the morning,

763
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:50.559
or four in the morning, he'd
go back out to jump in the card

764
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:53.159
off he'd go again. Those were
the hours that he carried down. But

765
00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:57.639
I thought there was business, but
it probably worth some of this, would

766
00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:00.639
plane, maybe bringing some of these
young people. Then you think he could

767
00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:04.559
have been carrying bodies in and out
there. A few times the trunk was

768
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:07.480
open, you know, he could
swing in because of circular driveway to his

769
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:12.039
house, and that also at the
light would it was always his habit.

770
00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:15.000
He swamped the light off, switched
the light off that had on the outside,

771
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:17.000
and a little while the trunk would
open, and it was the same

772
00:58:17.039 --> 00:58:21.480
thing. He was in there digging
around. What he was removing I never

773
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:24.360
seen. But then eventually the trunk
would get closed and he'd close it,

774
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:28.480
go in the house to retire after
that, or he'd take off. He'd

775
00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:31.119
also his lights round all hours of
the night or all night long and beyond.

776
00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:36.280
Was there a lot of noise in
the house with other people anything like

777
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:42.440
oh no, no, no.
I had a habit of he had hadn't

778
00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:45.880
like his friends. And I had
a younger son that kind of associated with

779
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:49.039
some of his lads. And one
time I got to return to the daughter

780
00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:52.760
that woke up that she says,
Ronnie's got a friend in the house,

781
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:57.400
and it was one of his employees. And I'd get a hold of Ronnie,

782
00:58:57.960 --> 00:58:59.840
take that guy and get him out
of here. At three o'clock in

783
00:58:59.880 --> 00:59:01.000
the morning. You're not gonna bring
no friend into the house. I put

784
00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:04.719
them both out. My son said, if he goes igoises, then you

785
00:59:04.840 --> 00:59:07.280
go to with him. They spend
the night in the house. Then I

786
00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:08.519
went there the following night and I
told john I caught this one kid,

787
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:10.480
as if I ever catch you in
the house, and I'll break your neck

788
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:14.039
for you, because I just don't
like him in there. You know,

789
00:59:14.119 --> 00:59:16.079
not three in the morning and Johnson's
you stay out of Eddie's house. Even

790
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:20.440
if Ronnie calls you in there.
You have no business in there. Because

791
00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:22.320
I've had a number of articles vanished
in the house. We have no idea

792
00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:25.320
where they went. I lost a
thousand dollar diamond ring. I got no

793
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:29.639
idea where world. It could have
been some of his weird friends that Brown

794
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:32.039
would bring in there. It was
pretty scar scrubby and scurvey as far as

795
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:39.079
I was. The fool was above
ground above ground pool and he sold the

796
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:42.920
thing because he had no use for
the pool, and some other person brought

797
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:45.199
it and there never was anything.
There was a little differension anybody. He

798
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:46.880
just left a little off with dirt
and it was grass, but not at

799
00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:50.719
that time. This was right after
he had moved A year or so after

800
00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:52.400
that he moved them there. But
if they're to do any hunting, my

801
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:57.119
best bedst that he should be.
They should look under the grounds, for

802
00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:00.440
this was laid on the lawn.
Hardly any grou I have a leather than

803
01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:02.159
the roughness that was in there,
but was on the pool in this area.

804
01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:05.480
He took that and threw that in
the bank there. But there he

805
01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:09.519
had the habit of poking around in
the evening too. Whether by where the

806
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:14.199
garages, I don't need that now, but that was pretty quick, and

807
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:17.559
I'm suspicious also where he has a
major barbecue there that I came home that

808
01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:20.920
one day and he had a hell
of a hole dog in there. Yeah,

809
01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:23.079
and there that was before pointing concrete, and I never did see that.

810
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:39.079
It took quite a bit of time
to id all the bodies that the

811
01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:45.360
investigators found. By the time the
trial started, they had only identified twenty

812
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:51.320
two. Gasey's trial would begin on
February sixth, nineteen eighty. The people

813
01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:53.760
of Chicago and the world were still
in a state of shock about what they

814
01:00:53.840 --> 01:01:00.400
found within his home. John WAYN. Gasey was a successful businessman, helpful

815
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:05.679
neighbor, and an entertaining clown for
kids. But now he was a vile

816
01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:08.400
murderer, a monster in the eyes
of those who knew him. And once

817
01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:14.360
respected him. Gasey would spend some
time leading up to his trial trying to

818
01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:16.960
convince the world that he was insane. He also tried to prove that he

819
01:01:17.079 --> 01:01:22.159
had multiple personalities. Gasey would be
deemed sane and fit to stand trial,

820
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:29.119
but defense doctors would diagnose him with
paranoid schizophrenia with a multiple personality disorder.

821
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:35.760
However, the prosecuting doctors refuted these
claims. Over the course of the trial,

822
01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:39.159
many people would take the stand against
Gaysey. Michael Rossy would speak about

823
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:44.039
digging the trenches in the crawl space
and how he was not allowed to deviate

824
01:01:44.119 --> 01:01:47.159
from the spot in which he was
instructed to. Eventually, Gasey would put

825
01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:52.599
Rossi in charge of overseeing others digging
in his crawl space. Gasey did have

826
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:57.599
a busy schedule, so he would
delegate such work to his hired hands.

827
01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:02.760
No one questioned why he wanted these
holes dug to such particular specifications. They

828
01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:07.719
trusted Gaysey. They had no idea
that they were digging graves. Donald Vorhees

829
01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:12.639
would also take the stand to speak
about Gaysy and the assault he experienced.

830
01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:16.199
This was not an easy task for
Donald, and after a certain point it

831
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:20.400
became too much to deal with,
and he would ask to take a step

832
01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:25.679
down from the stand. Jeffrey Rignal
would also testify and speak about the horrific

833
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:30.519
night that he was taken by Gaysey. Reliving it was so difficult for jeff

834
01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:36.360
that he actually became sick on the
stand. Gaysey's behavior in the courtroom was

835
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:39.960
despicable. If a surviving victim struggled
to speak, he would chuckle at them.

836
01:02:40.599 --> 01:02:45.320
Imagine how unnerving it would be to
be one of Gaysey's victims in that

837
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:49.840
moment. They know how important their
testimony is, but at the same time,

838
01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:53.239
the situation in and of itself is
terrifying. This man in front of

839
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:58.440
them tortured them, abused them,
and took pieces of them away. To

840
01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:02.400
see him laughing at their own cobleness
must have been a jarring experience. After

841
01:03:02.519 --> 01:03:07.159
hearing hours of testimony over the course
of five weeks, it was time for

842
01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:10.480
the jury to come to a verdict. They deliberated Gaysey's feet for less than

843
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:15.679
two hours. When they returned,
they informed the judge that they had found

844
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:20.480
Gaysy guilty of thirty three counts of
murder. Later, they would sentence Gaysy

845
01:03:20.599 --> 01:03:27.480
to death for his crimes. Prosecutor
Terry Sullivan called Gaysey's insanity defense hogwash.

846
01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:31.320
In his confession, Gaysey admitted killing
the young men after having sex with him,

847
01:03:31.639 --> 01:03:37.079
then varying most of the bodies under
his house. The prosecutor called Gaysy

848
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:42.119
a vile, evil, diabolical murderer
who must be held responsible for his acts.

849
01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:46.519
Gaysy chuckled. The photos of the
twenty two identified victims were displayed,

850
01:03:47.199 --> 01:03:52.519
Murder, Sullivan said as he pointed
to each one murder. Relatives of the

851
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:57.639
victims wept. Sullivan told a jury
that justice implores them to find Gaysy guilty

852
01:03:57.719 --> 01:04:01.960
of murder in the worst degree.
Once in prison, Gasey would recant his

853
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:06.239
previous confession to the murders. He
said he had knowledge about certain ones,

854
01:04:06.360 --> 01:04:10.960
but a majority of the bodies found
within his own crawl space were not put

855
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:15.719
there by him. He would even
do a prison interview stating his innocence.

856
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:21.760
People who want to know the truth
and the honesty of it, if they

857
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:27.159
want to be convinced their brainwashed into
what they believe, then find and go

858
01:04:27.159 --> 01:04:30.199
ahead and kill me. But vengeance
his mind. Say it's the Lord because

859
01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:34.400
you will have executed somebody that didn't
commit the crime. When they paint the

860
01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:39.920
image that I was this monster who
who picked up like these altar boys along

861
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:43.079
the street and swatted him like f
live, I said, this is ludicrous.

862
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:45.800
I've taken five and a half hours, three and a half hours of

863
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:51.039
truth Sarah and sodium amato, the
maximum at that I could have. It

864
01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:56.119
shows that I have no knowledge of
the crime whatsoever, never have had.

865
01:04:56.480 --> 01:05:00.719
There is no proof anywhere that he
ever took truth sarahm Now it's not only

866
01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:05.159
a matter of physical evidence, it's
a character issue as well. Many times

867
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:10.800
during our interview he tried to portray
himself as a quick guy, an ethical,

868
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:14.760
hard working family man. Here's how
he describes himself as a father,

869
01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:19.800
loving and caring. I've always looked
after my children even now. What kind

870
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:24.800
of values you remember imparting to them? The kind of stick? Will you

871
01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:29.280
strict with them too? No?
Not as strict as No. A lot

872
01:05:29.320 --> 01:05:31.440
of things that my dad did I
refused to do because I don't see.

873
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:38.239
I don't believe in hitting hitting children. I don't believe in in spoiling a

874
01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:42.760
child either. My values are such
that if we've give enough love to a

875
01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:47.199
child who's a murdering thirty three,
and you say you didn't believe in hitting.

876
01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:50.599
I mean, well, anybody that
knows you see it. First of

877
01:05:50.599 --> 01:05:55.360
all, you're you're basing this garbage
on what you've heard of me. What

878
01:05:55.559 --> 01:06:00.239
happened to Rogue, What was happened
in the book of his case or was

879
01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:03.039
he picked up? How did he
get to the house, and what happened

880
01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:06.519
to him. I don't want to
go in. I don't want to go

881
01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:11.320
into the other the five that I
know about, just take it that I

882
01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:14.519
did. Buckervige is not one that
I killed, so I don't know nothing

883
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:16.639
about him. A little bit that
I know about him is that he was

884
01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:19.239
an employee of my s. When
you when you look about this, this

885
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:26.400
recall business and and I'm not scur
but I know you're not. Waits is

886
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:30.440
not one that you killed, which
suggests that me, Oh fact, were

887
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:33.039
others that you did kill. And
I okay, I'm sorry if I led

888
01:06:33.079 --> 01:06:36.960
you to believe no strike at them, that is wrong. Charge me with

889
01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:44.320
complicity in two of the murders,
just two. That's all I know about.

890
01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:47.199
In regards to going out and the
gradge. Yes, I know,

891
01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:49.159
I went to the house and yes, I know. I walked in the

892
01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:53.760
gridge and they asked me where the
last section of concrete was bored. Okay,

893
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:57.039
I said, there's the last section
where the last section of concrete was

894
01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:00.159
bored. Okay. They are the
ones that took the or camapaign and said

895
01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:02.760
here put a mark there. So
I put an eg there. So the

896
01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:10.480
paint was not to identify the place
of burial. No, despite his appeals

897
01:07:10.480 --> 01:07:14.320
in shouting at the rooftops that he
was an innocent man, John Wayne Gacy

898
01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:17.280
was executed in the early morning hours
of May ninth, nineteen ninety four.

899
01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:23.159
For his last meal, he ate
a bucket of Kentucky fried chicken, French

900
01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:29.679
fries, fried shrimp, strawberries,
and a diet coke. Gasy's execution did

901
01:07:29.719 --> 01:07:33.719
not go down smoothly. Typically,
the lethal injection takes about seven minutes to

902
01:07:33.800 --> 01:07:39.320
work. At least that's the average. Due to some issues, it took

903
01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:44.199
John Wayne Gacy eighteen minutes to die, a most likely very painful death.

904
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:48.239
It is said that no death sentence
is painless. It just appears that Gaysy's

905
01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:54.599
was a little bit more than usual. Some reports state that his final words

906
01:07:54.639 --> 01:07:59.280
were kiss my ass. However,
per an interview outside the prison where the

907
01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:03.679
lethal e action was administered, this
was not the case. But believe what

908
01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:09.519
you want, didn't You couldn't hear
his last statement, though we were told

909
01:08:09.559 --> 01:08:15.599
to be something along lines of kiss
my ass. So, actually, Nick

910
01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:23.079
Howel, did you see the Department
of Corrections spokesman. No, they were

911
01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:27.920
not. They were not. He
alluded to, basically as I had explained

912
01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:35.399
to you earlier, that killing him
would not bring back the victors. John

913
01:08:35.439 --> 01:08:40.399
Wayne Gacy brutally tortured, raped,
and killed thirty three young men and boys.

914
01:08:41.239 --> 01:08:45.359
It is important not to forget who
they were. We currently only have

915
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:53.439
twenty seven out of thirty three names. Timothy McCoy, John Bukovich, Darryl

916
01:08:53.520 --> 01:09:00.880
Sampson, Randall Reffitt, Samuel Stapleton, Michael Bonnen, Wiam Carroll, James

917
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:10.880
Hackinson, Rick Johnson, Kenneth Parker, Michael Marino, William Bundy, Gregory

918
01:09:10.960 --> 01:09:18.079
Godzick, John Siazac, John Prestige, Matthew Bowman, Robert Gilroy, John

919
01:09:18.199 --> 01:09:28.079
Maorory Russell Nelson, Robert Winch,
Tommy Bolan, David Talsma, William Kindred,

920
01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:35.880
Timothy O'Rourke Frank Landingen, James Mazara, and Robert Peist. There are

921
01:09:35.960 --> 01:09:42.199
six more known victims that were located
in Gasey's home. Thanks to forensic science,

922
01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:45.720
officials were able to determine a round
about time and age for these victims.

923
01:09:46.159 --> 01:09:49.199
Due to the fact that they have
no names, they were assigned a

924
01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:55.720
number. Body number five was a
young man approximately twenty two to thirty two

925
01:09:55.800 --> 01:10:00.199
years old and was killed somewhere between
nineteen seventy six in March of nine teen

926
01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:04.199
seventy seven. Body number ten was
a young man between the ages of seventeen

927
01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:10.760
to twenty one years old and was
murdered between March to July of nineteen seventy

928
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:15.039
seven. Body number thirteen was a
mail between the ages of eighteen to twenty

929
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:20.319
two and was most likely killed between
August to October of nineteen seventy six.

930
01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:27.000
Body twenty one was a mail between
the ages of fifteen to twenty four.

931
01:10:27.880 --> 01:10:31.800
Officials determined that he was killed somewhere
between August and October of nineteen seventy six.

932
01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:35.880
Body number twenty six was a young
man between the ages of twenty three

933
01:10:35.960 --> 01:10:41.399
to thirty years old. He was
murdered between June and August of nineteen seventy

934
01:10:41.479 --> 01:10:45.439
six. Lastly, body number twenty
eight was a young man between the ages

935
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:48.479
of fourteen to eighteen, and it
was determined that he was killed in January

936
01:10:48.520 --> 01:10:54.520
of nineteen seventy four. John Wayne
Gacy may have had more victims. In

937
01:10:54.680 --> 01:10:57.880
fact, it seemed more than likely
that he did. Hopefully, with the

938
01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:01.640
constant advancements in DNA and forensic technology, we can give his remaining victims their

939
01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:05.640
identities back, and the families of
those who still have no answers as to

940
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:12.439
what happened to their loved one can
finally get closure. Have you given some

941
01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:15.199
thought to what you might want to
say your last words? You shall know

942
01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:19.039
the truth, and truth shall set
you free. I will be at peace,

943
01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:26.039
But in the end, the families, the families will have not gotten

944
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:30.319
justice. It may take away some
of the pain that you're executing me,

945
01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:35.600
but you will not have served those
families properly. Thank you for listening to

946
01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:40.159
this episode of the Apex and the
Abyss. If you would like to reach

947
01:11:40.199 --> 01:11:44.319
out, you can find me on
Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. You

948
01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:49.000
can also submit episode requests to Apex
and Abyss at gmail dot com. If

949
01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:51.640
you would like to support the show. You can do that in many ways.

950
01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:56.399
You can give the show a five
star rating and a review on iTunes.

951
01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:00.560
You can head on over to Patreon
to become a monthly donor as little

952
01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:03.880
as one dollar a month. You
can buy show merchandise on tepublic dot com,

953
01:12:04.359 --> 01:12:09.560
or you can submit a one time
donation at apex and abyss dot com.

954
01:12:10.279 --> 01:12:14.399
All the links will be posted in
the show notes. Have a great

955
01:12:14.439 --> 01:12:30.239
week everyone, until next time.
I'm the brother of John Mallory and we

956
01:12:30.399 --> 01:12:36.039
were there were about twenty three of
the family members of the victims that we

957
01:12:36.119 --> 01:12:40.319
were a little bit amazed. The
reason we came over here was several of

958
01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:45.279
us had asked to be witnesses to
the execution because we just felt it was

959
01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:55.159
something we needed to experience to be
a piece with the whole situation. We

960
01:12:55.279 --> 01:13:00.520
were giving a runaround and told that
there were going to be about eighteen people

961
01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:11.000
in it the execution. Then we
were in a small room in the basement

962
01:13:11.039 --> 01:13:15.319
of one of the buildings here watching
your newscasts on about a nine inch television.

963
01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:21.319
We weren't it all notified what was
going on throughout the whole episode,

964
01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:26.720
and we were all a little bit
distraught about that, and then we had

965
01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:33.479
heard through your broadcasts after the execution
was completed that there were approximately forty to

966
01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:41.279
forty five people in witnessing the execution. And the whole thing that we've been

967
01:13:41.359 --> 01:13:46.720
here about is to try and stress
victims rights in the families of the victims,

968
01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:51.680
and we feel that one of our
rights were stripped by not allowing us

969
01:13:51.720 --> 01:13:58.479
to be there at the end,
not to be morbid or anything, it

970
01:13:58.600 --> 01:14:03.840
was just something that was matter of
closure for us and our families. Veto

971
01:14:04.520 --> 01:14:10.399
has been through quite a bit trying
to get to witness the execution as I

972
01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:15.039
have. I mean, this has
been fourteen years in the making where it's

973
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:20.680
a constant reminder when we see mister
Gaycy on the news. My mother has

974
01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:32.560
been very cooperative with all of you, and I'm just glad that finally a

975
01:14:32.600 --> 01:15:18.359
little justice was done in this matter. That's all I have to say. Four four