WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:06.080 Today on Open Mind UAP News, We've got Brett Tinley, the managing editor 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.199 of space dot Com, to talk about his coverage of the UAP phenomena over 3 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:15.480 the last few years. We'll talk about the latest UAP news, and we'll 4 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:20.320 look at some cool enigma videos. What the heck is that? Stay tuned. 5 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:34.960 Hello, and welcome to Open Mind JAP News. I am your host, 6 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:40.200 Alojandro Rojas. I've been covering the UAP topic as a journalist and a 7 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:44.399 digital creator for many, many years, and I'm happy to have my show 8 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:48.039 back. This is the third episode, and as you can see, I'm 9 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:54.759 actually in Arizona in my new headquarters. Here a new and also old actually 10 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:59.479 Open minds the majority of its life has been in Arizona, and we're back, 11 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:03.760 so welcome to the new digs. I did mention that we would be 12 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:10.799 responding to some viewer email, and I've gotten a lot of people really happy 13 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:12.640 that we're back. In a lot of comments, but not a lot of 14 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:17.439 questions, and there are a lot of opinions out there and a lot of 15 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:23.239 people stating things as fact that certainly aren't known as fact. You'll notice whenever 16 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:26.040 I cover a topic, I'll put a link to the source in the description. 17 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:30.719 So this is information I'm conveying. I've got facts. I've at least 18 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:33.920 got some information to back up what I'm saying, and I expect that you 19 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:37.879 do that too. So if you've got some statements to make, that's great. 20 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.159 Love to hear what you have to say, but back it up with 21 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:45.000 facts. If you're countering something I'm saying, well, I've got some information 22 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.840 in facts to back up what I'm saying. What about you, I'd love 23 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:49.680 to see it if you do, because we're all looking for the truth and 24 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:55.040 all searching for the truth here. Otherwise, for the positive comments, thank 25 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:59.519 you so much. There were a couple of questions about Enigma, and I'll 26 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:01.480 talk about that right now. One question was is it going to be on 27 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:06.239 Android soon? That's a big question. It will be on Android soon, 28 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.800 so just hold out on that. Another question was about the website. Yeah, 29 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:15.039 the website. You can't submit sightings there at Enigma Labs dot io if 30 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:19.719 you don't have Apple and you can't use the app. You'll also be able 31 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:22.120 to get a lot of information there, and very soon we're going to have 32 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:25.560 a lot more information on the website regarding siting so keep an eye out for 33 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.800 that, and of course i'll update you guys when that does happen. So 34 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:32.439 a lot going on at Enigma, but a lot of really cool sightings. 35 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:37.840 And one thing that I've been doing lately is collecting more cool UFO sidings from 36 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:40.840 the site and I'll share those on my social media, and of course we 37 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:45.039 cover at least a couple of those sightings here on the show. Typically, 38 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:47.000 what I'll do with here on the show is take one where I think I 39 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:50.840 know what it is, and we'll go over that, and the other one 40 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:53.639 will go over is one hour I'm not sure what the heck it is and 41 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.199 I need your help figuring it out. In fact, on today's show, 42 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:01.759 we're going to be covering SpaceX videos because we're getting tons of those and they're 43 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:06.719 spectacular, they're a lot of fun, but of course they're knowns, not 44 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:10.719 unknowns, and we'll take a look at what the most common manifestation that people 45 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:15.240 are seeing looks like, and i'll share that with you. In fact, 46 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:19.120 I caught a video of my own here in Arizona of a launch in California, 47 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:22.439 and I'll show you what that looks like too. It's spectacular, it 48 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:27.319 takes up like the entire night sky. It's incredible. So we live in 49 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:31.000 an incredible age with these rockets going up on nearly a daily basis, and 50 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:35.439 some of them like the Giant one. In fact, I've got a little 51 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.240 model right here on my desk. You can't even really see it, but 52 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:45.000 of the starships Basic Starship, that thing is humongas. It's the biggest rocket 53 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.879 ever. And they've sent that up a couple of times now, crash every 54 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:52.360 time, but they're getting closer and closer to it being a reality. Anyway, 55 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:54.319 we'll look at those videos in a sec. But let's get into UAP 56 00:03:54.599 --> 00:04:01.280 newt all right. So let's look at the news stories. And the first 57 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:05.599 thing I want to cover is actually a little bit of news about the Scientific 58 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:10.759 Coalition for UAP Studies. Of course, I have been a board member of 59 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:15.000 this organization for a long time. I'm not currently just because I've got a 60 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.959 lot going on with launching my own show and some other projects that I'll be 61 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.759 talking to you about, but I still work with them. I'm going to 62 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:25.959 be the EMPCY of their upcoming conference that's going to be May thirty first to 63 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:29.079 June second. So I just wanted to let you all know. Of course, 64 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:32.680 this is a scientific coalition for UAP studies, so we focus on research 65 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:38.360 and science and that's mostly what we do looking at papers, so that's what 66 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:41.519 I'm most interested in. So it should be a good time. It's going 67 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:45.600 to be hybrid. So you can come join us in Hutsville, Alabama if 68 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:50.240 you're available. If not, you can register and just watch online, So 69 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:55.399 make sure and get your tickets for that. Next this is kind of the 70 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:59.680 big the first news piece. There hasn't been a lot of news on this, 71 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:10.199 but the European Parliament had a meeting about UFOs. Francisco Guillero is he's 72 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:15.639 from a member from Portugal. He posted the video of the conversation and he's 73 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:19.120 been a main player and pushing this forward. And I've stopped the video so 74 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:23.560 you can see what he looks like here, but it's two hours long. 75 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:30.160 Some of the people that he talked to regarding historical EU context meaning the European 76 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.480 Union of course, was Eduardo Russo. I'm not familiar with him, but 77 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:38.560 when talking about the US government, of course, he had on Ryan Graves. 78 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.319 We know him very well. Ryan Graves is one of the fighter pilots 79 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:47.879 who had sightings off of the East Coast as part of the USS Roosevelt while 80 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:53.360 he was in the Navy. And he's started his own organization, Americans for 81 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:58.279 Safe Aerospace, where you know they're tackling this topic and as far as a 82 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:03.319 air safety concern issue. UAP introduction by Andre Joel. I'm not familiar with 83 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:09.879 him either, but Scientific Perspective Gone UAP from doctor Beatri's via Royale. I've 84 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:13.319 interviewed her a couple times in relations to SCU, so you could go to 85 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:16.600 the SCU website and actually see a couple of interviews with me and bea trees. 86 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:21.079 But I'll have her on again. She's actually written a medium article I 87 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:26.519 thought was pretty interesting recently, which I posted in my social media. But 88 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:30.759 we'll talk to her again. Also expert testimonies. They spoke to a pilot, 89 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:35.040 Christian Vaughan Heist, and I've talked to him also. I interviewed him 90 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:41.600 for Enigma Labs. You can find that on their Enigma Labs website, but 91 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:46.000 i'll post it here in the description. Also really interesting pilot. He's also 92 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.040 a photographer, but he's got some really interesting pictures and video, or at 93 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:55.240 least some pictures of UAP during his career, so he's just been advocating for 94 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.360 this topic to be taken more seriously. So it sounds like it was really 95 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:03.920 interesting. I don't know what came from it, but it's great that you 96 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:08.120 know, there's some discussion going on over there in the EU, and you 97 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:12.560 know, just kind of talking about how this phenomena happens in Europe also and 98 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.240 that we need to do something about it, essentially, was what the discussion 99 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:19.879 was. Not sure what they will be doing about it. One of the 100 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:26.680 longest running and probably most important official government agencies is in Europe, and that's 101 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:30.560 in France. They're called JAPON. They started in the seventies. They are 102 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:35.959 under the CNES, which is kind of their version of NASA, and they've 103 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:40.639 been collecking UAP reports for a very long time. I highly recommend you go 104 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:44.639 check out their website. They share all their data and findings. They've got 105 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:48.439 at about three percent where they categorize their sightings I think in a very intelligent 106 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:55.319 way where they have whether or not there's enough information for a determination, but 107 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.000 there are some cases where they say we had enough information to make a determination, 108 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:03.240 yet we still found this to be unidentified and those are only about two 109 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.279 three percent of the cases that they have, but that's pretty significant if you've 110 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:13.560 got dozens of these sort of sightings, something to research for sure. So 111 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:18.120 anyway, I will put a link to all these in the description so you 112 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.920 can come and take a look at this video when you have a chance. 113 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.399 So this article is a lot of fun. This is a good friend of 114 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.319 mine, Brian Anslinger. He's actually a reporter in Portland. He was a 115 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:33.759 podcast listener of the show, and I met him when I went and spoke 116 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:37.519 at mcmnville a few years ago, and we've become pretty close. Just because 117 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.440 you'll notice I'm having a lot of journalists on the show. Journalists just kind 118 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:43.399 of have a vibe, you know, we have a similar perspective and way 119 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:48.120 that we approach things, and I think that's what you'll find really cool in 120 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:50.399 these conversations. And it's also helpful that we check each other, you know, 121 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.399 where are your facts on that? Where are your facts on this? 122 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:58.240 Journalists are really good at, you know, beating each other up and you 123 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:03.159 know, trying to say, hey, where'd you get this information and debate 124 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.159 whether or not that information is substantial or credible or not and that stuff can 125 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:13.000 be very subjective, but you'll find that out when we talked to Brent a 126 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:18.759 little later. But Brian is teaching a college course on UFOs, so this 127 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:20.120 is going to start in a couple of months. I've talked to him this 128 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:24.399 week. It's very exciting. We'll have him on the show and I'll give 129 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:26.559 you updates. But yeah, this is really cool. He's just kind of 130 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:33.799 taking a grounded approach. He's calling this from film to real life l os 131 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.960 UAP's government and the media, and he's looking at this kind of as a 132 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:43.039 cultural kind of perspective. But he's someone who definitely is an advocate that it's 133 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:46.000 a serious issue that needs to be taken seriously. The next piece of news 134 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:54.159 is a new paper that came out from Rear Admiral Tim Gallad Debt, PhD. 135 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:58.720 He worked in the Navy. He's retired now, but he wrote a 136 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.120 paper called Beneath the Surface, We may learn more about UAP by looking in 137 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:07.000 the ocean. This was presented by the Soul Foundation, which is a new 138 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:13.440 scientific organization focused on this topic, and it's made some news so the national 139 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:18.960 interest, which I think is really interesting. A very highly respected publication covered 140 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.720 this. They said, forget the skies, the US military is looking for 141 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.799 UFO below the waves. So really interesting paper. It's essentially just kind of 142 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:31.279 calling out what many of us in this build already know and are interested in, 143 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.480 is that you know, UAP are not just in the skies. There 144 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:41.480 are also things being observed or data collected on potential objects that are unknown and 145 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:46.879 highly technical under the water or going transmedian, so going in and out of 146 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:50.000 the water. And that's the point that Galadat is making in this. I've 147 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:56.559 also interviewed Tim Galadet for SCU last year during the conference, so you can 148 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.279 find that interview for free on YouTube. But he's a really interesting guy, 149 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:05.639 really great guy. Interesting paper, definitely worth taking a look. Next, 150 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:11.919 we've got the Guardian. He quit heading the Pentagon's UFO office. Now a 151 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:16.000 report of his has shaken up eufology. Sean Kirkpatrick has faced threats for his 152 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:22.919 work. A new report concluding no evidence UAPs represent extraterrestrial tech has sent ufology 153 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:26.720 into a tailspin. Yeah, so this is an article in the Guardian, 154 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:35.360 and the big focus here is just Sean Kirkpatrick being just inundated, just being 155 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:39.039 you know, by threats of violence, social media smear campaigns. He had 156 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:43.639 to call the FBI after someone showed up at his home, and it really 157 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:52.000 is, I've got to say, absolutely ridiculous. It's it's scary, uncalled 158 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:58.440 for, and it's it's QAnon like guys. I'm sorry, but when you 159 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:03.279 have zero facts for your position and you're so upset and I'm passionate that you're 160 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:11.279 attacking someone who is pointing that out, that is it's just a really scary 161 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:18.480 and unfortunate thing. And it's really shocking to me that, you know, 162 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:22.320 he's not the first guy. He's one of many that have officially looked at 163 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.399 this topic and just not been that convinced, but are open minded. And 164 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:31.039 I think that's really important. In this field. We call people skeptics, 165 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.840 and myself, I think I'm going to be. I'm headed towards being labeled 166 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.519 a skeptic very quickly. And it's not because I don't think there's something to 167 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:41.120 this field. Obviously I do. And that's what's difficult, because a lot 168 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:46.080 of the people who are labeled skeptics are like me. They're very into this 169 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:48.360 issue. They do think there's something there, but of course they're going to 170 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:52.679 debunk everything they can, because that's the scientific method. You debunk and try 171 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.600 to disprove your own theory. And if you can't do that, then you 172 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:58.720 know you have something. They haven't been able to do that. I haven't 173 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.360 been able to do that. I also have not been able to prove this 174 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:09.639 is extraterrestrial in nature or not completely something mundane in nature. We just don't 175 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:13.679 know. We need more data. I mean, there are so many possibilities 176 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.000 that we've got to gather data. And look, I am not the hugest 177 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:24.240 fan of Kirkpatrick. I think that there's definitely things they could have done. 178 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:30.320 I think that this last paper could have been more focused on the actual history 179 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.039 and the good cases. And I think that's what a lot of people are 180 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:37.440 frustrated is that there's no talk about some of the incredible cases that have gone 181 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.480 on and what they could be and the mystery that they pose. But this 182 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:48.919 is not who do I blame for that? The people who have been attacking 183 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:58.240 Kirkpatrick with rumors, hearsay, and just in many cases completely false information that 184 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:07.039 they believe substantiates this idea that aliens are here. It's really scary. And 185 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:11.519 then beyond that, and this is what I think it's really weird and irresponsible 186 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:16.399 in a way, is that these people believe, like this article points out 187 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.879 that the government has been hurting people, that aliens are hurting people, that 188 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.600 this is a really dangerous situation. And if you believed that this is not 189 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:33.960 a responsible way to approach getting that information out there, or even more importantly, 190 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:39.600 protecting us from this potential threat should there even be one which we do 191 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:43.399 not know, It's too bad this sort of happens. But let's move on. 192 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:50.360 Next article is from Chronicle Live. So this article is UK UFO sidings 193 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.519 mapped nearly two thousand unexplained objects spotted in our skies in the last four years. 194 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.679 So there's a group in the UK who compiled kind of like we're doing 195 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:03.960 with an enigma, but just looking at UK sightings. And they took data 196 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:07.600 from a bunch of different sources, a lot any group out there essentially collecting 197 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.879 UFO reports on the UK, and they did a report on twenty twenty three. 198 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.120 Here you can see where they are. There's not a lot of analysis 199 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.360 that I've seen yet, but there's a little bit of pointers here in the 200 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:26.480 article, such as around forty orbs we're seen moving across in a cross formation 201 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:35.559 in Manchester. There's orbs that we're seen in Suffolk, flying saucer illuminated by 202 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.279 varying red glowing spheres, a dark, silent, squashed triangle, and then 203 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:45.919 fifteen bright lights supposedly pursued by two fighter jets and an Apache helicopter. Of 204 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:50.840 course, these are the type of sightings that we get often that are largely, 205 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:54.799 largely mostly misidentification, so it's hard to make much of that, but 206 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.919 I think one of the things that was kind of interesting is they had a 207 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:04.320 twenty percent drop in sightings from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three. Why 208 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:11.919 is that? What I have found in my experience is that citing reports are 209 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:18.039 mostly driven by marketing or events. And what I mean by that is if 210 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.200 there's a TV show that gets a lot of attention, anything that gets lots 211 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.240 of you know, eyes on it, like news stories, Whenever something gets 212 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:32.240 out there about UFOs and is popular, we get more citing. So it's 213 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:37.759 possible that twenty twenty two was just a bigger news year for UAP, and 214 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:42.440 UAP take being taken seriously because twenty twenty three, you know, kind of 215 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:47.759 ended and we'll look, we'll see this and twenty twenty four is starting in 216 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:51.639 kind of an area of skepticism where it's like, what is with these people? 217 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.080 I mean when they referring to UFO people, So that could be it. 218 00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:00.000 You know, the lusters kind of dropped from the topic and we're get 219 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.680 kind of into a more stable kind of level area. But who knows, 220 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.880 It's hard to say for sure, take further examination. But yeah, you'll 221 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:12.599 see a few articles on this out there and link to that report and I'll 222 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:18.839 put that in the description as well. Next article, UFO visits near key 223 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:26.160 nuclear installations in Tamil Nadu baffle experts. So this one, as usual with 224 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:32.200 these kind of more sensational stories, is being picked up by tabloids all over 225 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:37.680 the place. This is a more serious media outlet that I'm spotting here. 226 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.720 In fact, if it was just tabloids, I might not cover this at 227 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:44.519 all, but it's getting out there quite a bit. But these are some 228 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:48.559 guys who work in the area who say that they've gotten at least ten UFO 229 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:52.160 sidings in the area. This is the only picture they're sharing, which is 230 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.319 not impressive. Whatsoever could be anything could be a street lamp or plane. 231 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.599 It could be a guy standing in a room with a light, the light 232 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.480 on its phone or something. You could be absolutely anything. So we don't 233 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.960 have much information, so not much to go off of here, but it 234 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.200 is sort of interesting because they are saying, hey, you know, they're 235 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:15.319 saying they're seeing a lot of UFOs around nuclear facilities in the US, and 236 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:21.279 it looks like we're seeing that here in India as well. The Daily Express 237 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.160 has also covered it, and I think that's why I just brought this one 238 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:27.440 up because it had a little bit of a bigger picture. Still not much 239 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:33.920 to see. Their Time magazine has gotten into the mix with UFOs, of 240 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:40.799 course they often do. But their latest article is what UFO cultists can teach 241 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:45.599 us about political paranoia Today. Now they're not calling anybody who believes in the 242 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:52.839 UFOs or UAP cultists, but what they are drawing on is this idea of 243 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:56.920 you know, a lot of people kind of deeply rooted beliefs. So, 244 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:02.720 for example, psychologists Leon Vestinger wrote, and this is the intro, and 245 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.240 I think this is kind of interesting this quote, A man with a con 246 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.400 conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns 247 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:15.200 away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your source, appeal to 248 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.799 logic, and he fails to see your point. And really they're getting into 249 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:25.119 this idea of cognitive dissonance where people hold very strong beliefs, but there's also 250 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:29.480 evidence that comes out that shows that those beliefs are wrong. And what people 251 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:36.440 will also often do is rationalize to connect those uh and you know they're absolutely 252 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:40.000 correct. Where this is a big deal in this field. And Garrett Graft, 253 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.039 who I hope to have on the show soon also who wrote a book 254 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:47.759 on historical UAP information, also pointed this out, kind of the connections between 255 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:53.160 Q and ON and the UFO field, and that seems harsh, but I 256 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:57.720 made that observation earlier, and we just do see a lot of people. 257 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:00.680 So, for instance, here's something I used to do. I've always been 258 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:07.000 curious about people who claim to have contact with you know, these creatures beings, 259 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.000 and there's a lot of people who make these claims. The problem I 260 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.799 have found is these stories are absolutely inconsistent. The aliens are good, the 261 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.519 aliens are bad. The aliens are from Zeta Reticula, the other aliens are 262 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.559 from Andromeda. People saying the grays are from here, not there, the 263 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.640 grays are bad, they're good. So there isn't a lot of agreement. 264 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.000 So I would ask people when they would come out of talks. I'd be 265 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:30.680 like, did you listen to all the talks at this conference today? And 266 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.839 they would say yeah, And I was like, what did you think of, 267 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:37.440 you know, the talks this morning? If there's been some people who 268 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.640 make these sort of claims, and they would say, well, I like 269 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.400 them both, And I would ask, well, they're saying two different things. 270 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:49.359 They both can't be telling the truth. And a lot of people would 271 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:55.599 try to explain to me how both realities that are completely opposite could be true. 272 00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:59.960 And what's funny is that typically, you know, in these talks, 273 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.119 even these people who are having these experiences, especially if they're really pushing it 274 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:07.920 as far as books and everything, they'll be like, you know, these 275 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:10.960 people are wrong. Those people are telling you the opposite are absolutely wrong. 276 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:15.319 They're charlatans and liars. But then you know, you talk to the people 277 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.640 who are fans of both, which are a lot of people, and they 278 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.799 try to explain how both are real. That's cognitive dissonance, and there's a 279 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:26.759 lot of that and why does that happen? And how is it? How 280 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.839 do we deal with it? So that's what this article is. There's another 281 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:33.839 similar one. I'm gonna skip this next one, Real Quier with the Boston 282 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:38.400 Globe that just came out. A new religion has Americans looking to the stars. 283 00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:45.440 But this one is similar, but it's talking about religion. So religion 284 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.920 is similar in that it's a world belief, a worldview based on belief. 285 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:56.160 I should say, you don't have evidence of your religious Most people don't feel 286 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.559 like they have evidence of their religious beliefs. But it's a faith based belief 287 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:07.400 system, but it doesn't always jive with reality and what we believe we know 288 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:12.039 from the historical record. Furthermore, religion, and I've got a lecture where 289 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:18.559 I talk about religion because of this reason that the similarities. Religion is typically 290 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:26.759 a supernatural answer to a question that you don't have answers to. Why are 291 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:29.799 we here? Why is the planet here? Why are we smart? Another 292 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:33.359 thing? Other animals aren't smart. These sort of you know, very fundamental 293 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:38.519 important questions. You know, belief systems arise in which a supernatural forces it's 294 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:44.680 given the reason why this happened, and that's what's happening with UFOs. Carl 295 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.799 Jung has pointed this out, others have pointed this out, and that's why 296 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.400 I think it's so interesting, because religions aren't, you know, butting up, 297 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:56.000 and that there are a lot of people who are not just treating this 298 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.720 like a religion, but like this article points out, they're also in the 299 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:07.880 trappings of religion. So things like meditation and mantras and godlike entities, these 300 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:15.559 are all getting weaved into these mythos of aliens and visiting us in interactions and 301 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:22.000 conspiracy theories, and so it creates this whole big religious like type of thing. 302 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.880 And that's what this article is about, which I think is really interesting, 303 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:33.880 and we're reading a couple more. I think this is really interesting. 304 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:37.720 Cancel on Foreign Relations did a podcast recently on UFOs. To be honest, 305 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:41.880 I have not listened to this yet, but it's very interesting that they've done 306 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:47.039 this, so that's why I've made note. And then finally, you know, 307 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:52.559 there are still some politicians out there talking about UAPs. Mostly it's this 308 00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:56.559 UAP Caucus group like we reviewed last week, that are members of the House, 309 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:02.200 mostly Republicans. One of them. Eric Burlson, just got this article 310 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:06.319 in one of the local papers where he is a representative, where they talked 311 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:10.480 about how he is looking into answers on this topic. But of course it 312 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:12.480 is interesting. This guy, I think I misspoke a little bit, said 313 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:18.119 that he felt UAP are advanced technology. That's what he said. But I 314 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:23.200 believe he says he thinks it's our advanced technology, not foreign. But that's 315 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:27.640 what he said. He thought the secret was. But if that's the case, 316 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:33.960 he should probably advocate that some of that stuffs they classified, especially if 317 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.519 it's our secret technology. But to be honest, I don't feel like his 318 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.640 position's clear yet, but hopefully it would become more clear in the future. 319 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:49.960 Finally, Brett Tingley Space dot com. So let's talk to Brett. But 320 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:53.079 let me tell you a little bit about him. I wanted to get in 321 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:59.160 his background here because he's been covering UFOs for a while, including working with 322 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.160 the Deep, but he's also written in some other places, so I just 323 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.640 wanted to kind of cover his background, and this I felt was a great 324 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:11.480 one from space dot Com. Brett is curious about emerging aerospace technologies n UAP 325 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:17.799 alternative launch concepts, military space developments, and uncrewed aircraft systems. Brett's work 326 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.240 has appeared on Scientific American, The War Zone that covers UAP, quite a 327 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.920 bit, Popular Science, The History Channel, Science Discovery, and more. 328 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:32.000 Brett has English degrees from Clemson University and the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. 329 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.279 And his free time, Brett enjoys skywatching throughout the dark skies of the 330 00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:41.960 Appalachian Mountains. It sounds like he's UFO hunting out there. Let's talk to 331 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:48.839 Brett about his UAP escapades, all right, I am very happy to introduce 332 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:53.079 our guest, Brett Tingley. He is a managing editor at space dot Com. 333 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:56.240 Welcome Brett. Hey, thanks for having me. Been a big fan 334 00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:00.559 of your work for many years. Thank you, dittoh, and I am 335 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.319 so excited to talk to you because you're one of those kind of mainstream, 336 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:10.079 legitimate, you know, journalists out there who dip their toes in the UFO 337 00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:12.599 topic. And how did that come about? I believe at first you started 338 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:17.920 writing with the war Zone. Even before that, I wrote for the blog 339 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:23.079 for the Mysterious Huniverse podcast oh alongside Mikah Hanks, whom I believe you know, 340 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:29.240 and mjbnias back in kind of the mid twenty teens, and so that, 341 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.359 you know, I kind of followed the weird news beat, you know, 342 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.039 some people would say over there. And so that was right about the 343 00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:41.440 time that To the Stars Academy burst onto the scene and that infamous twenty seventeen 344 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.319 article in the New York Times, and so that's when this whole big wave 345 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.359 of you know, new ufone news started. But you know, I've been 346 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.599 reading about the topic, following the topic since I was a kid. I 347 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:55.559 came up during the time of the X Files, awesome pop culture movies like 348 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:59.160 Men in Black Independence Days. So it's kind of been a lifelong passion for 349 00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:02.519 me, you know, and I have the great fortune to have had the 350 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:07.240 chance to write about it professionally. And when you started first writing about the 351 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.680 topic, what were topics that you were most interested in and kind of the 352 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.599 approach you wanted to take. Yeah, you know, I take more nuts 353 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:21.079 and bolt approach to the UFO topic. It's just what I've been drawn to. 354 00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:25.119 It's not necessarily that I discount any other hypotheses, because you know, 355 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:30.960 at this point they are still all hypotheses. But kind of when twenty seventeen 356 00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.880 to the Stars Academy, all these three big Navy videos came out. It 357 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:41.079 really got me wondering about, like, you know, could these represent terrestrial 358 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.720 technologies? Could we be talking about something that perhaps the United States is operating, 359 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.279 perhaps one of its adversaries is operating. And so that's you know, 360 00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:52.759 if you look at a lot of my portfolio writing about the topic, it's 361 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:57.279 been kind of that, like examining UFO adjacent military hardware or you know, 362 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:03.119 UFO adjacent aerospace programs or space programs, and it's, you know, not 363 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:07.279 because I discounted other hypotheses, but that's just kind of what I've chosen to 364 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:12.400 focus on and what I'm interested in. So when you know, this New 365 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.640 York Times article came out twenty seventeen, and there was this new found attention 366 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:19.839 on this topic, which was exciting for me. Of course writing about this 367 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:26.200 topic, I'm sure exciting for you that excitement. Did you remain excited? 368 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.279 What is your current thoughts about the topic and the direction it's gone. Not 369 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:37.680 as excited as I was around I think my excitement peaked probably between twenty nineteen 370 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:44.000 and twenty twenty one. During those two years I worked almost continuously on the 371 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:49.880 salvatorre payist patent story, you know, filing multiple document requests and got to 372 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.720 do a lot of great, you know, big features over there at the 373 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.960 war zone. And so it was during that time I think it kind of 374 00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.279 peaked, and then I don't know, over the past couple of years, 375 00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:04.720 my interest is wane because, like a lot of people who you know, 376 00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:11.079 were thrust into this new wave of excitement starting around twenty seventeen, I've kind 377 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.599 of, I don't want to say, gotten tired or bored, but you 378 00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.480 know, we've been hearing the same things. Oh, proof is coming, 379 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.960 disclosures coming, just keep waiting, just keep waiting, and it's like, 380 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:25.440 you know, after some point you gotta wonder, is anything really coming or 381 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:29.799 is this you know, why are we still excited about something we've been saying 382 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:33.319 is just on the verge of coming for seven years now and still hasn't come. 383 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:36.480 So it's still something I follow every day. I mean, I'm on 384 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.559 you know, I lurk on UFO Twitter every day, the UFO subreddits on 385 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:45.079 Reddit. I mean, it's still I have conversations with you know, colleagues 386 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.319 of years in mind. It's still something I'm invested in every single day, 387 00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.680 but not like I was back when I was reporting for the war Zone, 388 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.039 and it really felt like we were on the cusp of something big breaking, 389 00:29:55.119 --> 00:30:00.319 of us discovering something really big about what the government knows or doesn't know about 390 00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.079 UAP. But I don't know, I got to say, you know, 391 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:07.640 as more time goes on, I don't know if anything is coming anymore. 392 00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:14.079 Yeah, I mean, it seems like the arc of the conversation began with 393 00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:17.720 Okay, this is a legitimate issue. We had these Navy pilots coming out, 394 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.119 Navy events backing them, until people coming out and saying, you know, 395 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.279 there's something to all of this, and everybody seemed to kind of get 396 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:30.599 behind that. You were looking at, you know, potential patents that were 397 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.079 filed by the Navy, like you said, that were kind of weird, 398 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:37.279 next gen kind of technology that we didn't see actually get developed, and there's 399 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:41.079 questions about whether it can be and maybe we'll talk about that more in a 400 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:45.079 second. But then, as you said, kind of time went on and 401 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:48.400 we're almost to a place now where you look at UFO Twitter and there's a 402 00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:52.920 lot of depression there, people saying, oh, it's never coming out, 403 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:57.319 and that's probably because you know, they were expecting and being told that there 404 00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:03.400 was all these major investigations going on in the background. But then we have 405 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.880 Arrow and the d D you know, coming forward and doctor Kirkpatrick being very 406 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.519 vocal about this, the head of Arrow, the UAP program there at the 407 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:15.359 Pentagon, you know, saying there's not much to it, and then finally 408 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:18.880 releasing this historical report where it seems like and and this is what he's been 409 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:25.920 alluding to, that he was the one investigating these claims of crash UFOs and 410 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:30.119 you know that David Gresh came forward on and they didn't find anything to it. 411 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.480 Are you surprised by that report? There's a lot of reaction, of 412 00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:37.960 course from the UFO field that it's a cover up in all of this. 413 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.240 Do you believe that or what were your feelings about the report? I was 414 00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:45.480 not surprised one bit. In fact, it was exactly what I expected to 415 00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:51.759 read. I have been skeptical from the beginning that the government, skeptical about 416 00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:55.480 the idea that the government will ever show its hand when it comes to UFO's 417 00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:00.160 up. If you look at the history of the government's involvement, this has 418 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:04.160 been their message for decades now right that oh, we looked at it, 419 00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:07.240 we don't have any evidence. You know, we've looked into it. There's 420 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:12.200 no evidence that extraterrestrials have visited. So it was pretty much exactly what I 421 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.720 expected. Now, I was surprised by some of the inaccuracies that people have 422 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.440 pointed out. You know, you would expect an office in the Office of 423 00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:23.480 Director of National Intelligence to really be able to do their due diligence with some 424 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:28.680 of these historical incidents, So that that part did surprise me. But as 425 00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:31.839 far as the broad conclusions, it was exactly what I expected, because, 426 00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:37.759 like I said, I have no confidence that if we ever learned about the 427 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.039 nature of UFOs and UAP, it's going to come from the government. I 428 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:45.160 don't think it's going to come from the US military or the Pentagon, because 429 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.480 they don't want to show their hand. And you know, as countless of 430 00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:51.880 people have pointed out, it comes down to collection methods. They don't want 431 00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:58.119 to reveal the capabilities, the locations, and the analyzes of their intelligence collecting 432 00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.920 methods, and they don't want to reveal, you know, what possible shortcomings 433 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:07.799 those collection methods might have. As the Chinese spy balloon incident and the related 434 00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:10.759 incidents that came after that show. You know, there are huge gaps in 435 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:16.519 the military's awareness of the airspace domain over the United States and North America, 436 00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:20.680 and so, you know, I don't think they want to show how much 437 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.400 or how little they know, and I don't think they ever will will. 438 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:28.559 I think you make a really good point, and this was a point actually 439 00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:32.640 I was making on the last show, is that you know Bray I think 440 00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:37.839 he was assistant deputy director of Naval Intelligence. When you talk to Congress during 441 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.680 those hearings, he essentially said what you said, that we would have to 442 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.200 vet it. We'd have to make sure that it's not foreign intelligence, because 443 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:49.519 that's what we'd be looking at it to be at first. Once we found 444 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:54.400 out it's not foreign intelligence or something that's a national security issue and it doesn't 445 00:33:54.440 --> 00:34:00.160 reveal any of our capabilities or what we used or the methodologies or how or 446 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.640 why we were even looking at these places, then we'd be more than happy 447 00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:07.320 to reveal that information. But of course that's a huge list, and having 448 00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:14.199 something be able to get from a to being disclosed seems to be almost a 449 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:16.800 monumental, if not impossible task. How do you, you know, conclude 450 00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:22.199 for certain something you don't even know what it is is not enemy technology exactly. 451 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:28.000 Yeah, yeah, so yeah. But at the same time, do 452 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:30.760 you the nature of the secrets? I think that, you know, what 453 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:34.719 we just talked about is the nature of a lot of the secrets. But 454 00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.840 are do they know more? Do you think they really have more video and 455 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:46.599 information? Do you think there actually could be you know, retrieved objects or 456 00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:52.280 material to the first part of that question, I do not doubt and am 457 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:57.239 one hundred percent confident that there are some incredible videos out there. You know, 458 00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:02.760 I've heard from people behind the scenes that UAP Task Force and related offices 459 00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:07.519 they have some incredible footage that they cannot explain, right. I mean, 460 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.039 the capabilities of a lot of the space based sensors right now and cameras pointed 461 00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:15.440 down at Earth and even pointed farther out in space would blow people's minds if 462 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.320 they could see them. You know, I've never seen them, but this 463 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.559 is what we're hearing from the Department of Defense. So I do not doubt 464 00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:29.320 for a second that there is photographic or videographic evidence out there that would absolutely 465 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.639 knock people's socks off. But as we talked about previously, they're not going 466 00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:36.679 to reveal those because we don't want to reveal what the full capabilities of some 467 00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:40.199 of these sensor platforms and camera platforms are. The second part of your question, 468 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:45.880 as crash retrievals, well, we know there is a thriving and very 469 00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:52.239 active foreign material crash retrieval program, you know, dating back decades and recovering 470 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.719 Soviet technology, Chinese technology from all over the world. That includes things like 471 00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.599 you know, fighter planes, helicopters, or satellite people pieces of space flight 472 00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:06.280 technologies that have fallen down to Earth. Now, whether any of those might 473 00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:10.920 represent non human intelligence or extraterrestrials, anybody's guess is as good as mine. 474 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:15.800 I will say one thing though, the more I learned about space, the 475 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:19.639 universe, the Solar System as a result of working for space dot Com, 476 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:23.880 the incredible distances between Earth and the next star system and the next planet. 477 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:30.199 If anything visited here from outer space, you know, an extraterrestrial presence that 478 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:35.599 technology, we would not even be able to know what we're looking at. 479 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.920 Right. If anything can travel those distances to reach Earth, you know, 480 00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:42.800 I don't know that they could be reverse engineered. I don't know that we 481 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:45.119 could figure out what we're looking at, but you know, that's all incredibly 482 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:51.719 hypothetical. So I don't doubt for a second that we've recovered, you know, 483 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:57.079 uh, material from crashes that are strange, but whether those represent any 484 00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.679 kind of non human intelligence, I have no idea what love for that to 485 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:06.159 be true. And but you know, I don't have access to classified intel, 486 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:13.360 so I your guess as good as mine, right, And you know, 487 00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:19.079 what you're describing I think is probably very similar to my perspective, probably 488 00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:24.920 similar to the perspective perspective of the general public. But you know, there 489 00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:30.440 are people, you know, when we talked about looking at social media on 490 00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.159 the UFOs that are livid and they're like, you know, this is an 491 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:39.480 example of criminal activity of blatant lies. Yeah, but I don't think we 492 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:43.360 see any of that. I mean, I don't see that we see any 493 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:52.360 clear, strong evidence that there are lies we have, as you mentioned earlier, 494 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:57.000 rumors and mythology and coming from a section and a group of people like 495 00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:00.800 Kirkpatrick has complained about who will have been spread these kind of things and beliefs 496 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:07.039 for very, very very decades, But they haven't had any results. They 497 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:10.599 haven't demonstrated their beliefs to be true over all of this time, and this 498 00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.079 last chance they have with Grustion seem to panhand er. It hasn't thus far 499 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:22.119 either. So I don't see a reason to be necessarily lived because as a 500 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:27.199 somebody who's written about this topic for decades myself, I don't have that evidence 501 00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:29.440 either, and I would. I've been looking for it and I'd love to 502 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:36.119 have it. Yeah, I would too. And it's kind of uncanny how 503 00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:38.599 a lot of the news stories that are coming out right now are so similar 504 00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:44.239 to the old stories that we've heard for a long time, right and you 505 00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:50.920 know, the the vitriol, the anger, the uh, the zelotry almost 506 00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:53.079 of these people on social media is very off putting. You know, I've 507 00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:58.480 been the target of some of it. I've had people email the organization I 508 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:00.039 work for, telling them they need to fire me because you know, I 509 00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:06.119 said something skeptical on Twitter before I'll just say this, you know, they're 510 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:12.679 without naming any names, there are some journalists out there making very bold claims 511 00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:15.840 that you know, they know the locations of crash hardware. They you know, 512 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:21.840 they have proof of in some form of these crashes and crash achievals like 513 00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:24.639 we've talked about. But working in media, working in journalism, I can 514 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:30.360 tell you if I was sitting on anything that was concrete proof of this stuff, 515 00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:34.480 why would I It boggles my mind to think that I wouldn't release it. 516 00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:37.679 I would be an overnight global sensation. I would never have to work 517 00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:43.440 again after writing my next memoir or even ghostwriting my next memoir? Why would 518 00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.199 you sit on it? And I know a lot of the argument is, 519 00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:47.800 oh, well, I don't want to burn my sources. This we're talking 520 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:53.679 about the greatest secrets and the greatest discovery in human history. Arguably, is 521 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:59.840 that not worth burning a source and making yourself millions of dollars? So I 522 00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:04.039 I don't know, I'm you know, I know that people have gotten you 523 00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.800 know, these social media groups incredibly riled up making these bold claims. But 524 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:12.119 again, like, why would you sit on something like that if it's true? 525 00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:15.199 And I've been waiting to say that, I've been waiting for a podcast 526 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:16.840 or something like that to say this, right, And you know, but 527 00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:22.679 like I don't think any journalists, anybody who wants to make a name for 528 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:28.880 themselves, you know, publishing scoops would sit on the greatest scoop in the 529 00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:32.000 history of humankind. Now, yeah, and you've got great points. And 530 00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:36.960 you know, when it comes to these journalists there, they act very much 531 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:40.679 more like activists. And if you are an activist who has that sort of 532 00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:45.880 passion for this topic, you would think that you would be willing to burn 533 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:50.880 the world down to get your truth out, like most activists are when on 534 00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.119 their topic. So I hear the claim made, the argument made that, 535 00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:57.599 oh, people have been murdered keeping this secret, right, and then we 536 00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.400 also hear, oh, well, I don't want to disclose the looks of 537 00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.639 these things because it would puck people in danger. But what it also take 538 00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.840 people out of danger if people have been killed to keep the secret a secret 539 00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:12.280 this long, you know, it's yeah, I don't know, it's funny 540 00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:15.440 to me. I think those are all really great points. And not only 541 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:19.880 that, you know, a lot of the people making these claims are either 542 00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:22.199 a people who have made the claims for decades and shown no evidence, or 543 00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:27.840 they're newer and they still don't have any evidence for what they're talking about, 544 00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:30.280 whereas those of us who have been doing it for a very long time just 545 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:35.360 don't see it. You know, we haven't seen that, or like you 546 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:37.400 said, you know, we've all been trying to get this evidence out and 547 00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:43.119 get to that point. Not necessarily for money, although the money would be 548 00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:46.320 great, but yeah, for the opportunity to do what you've put your life 549 00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:51.519 goals towards that reveal that there is something really to this and beyond that. 550 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:54.960 I think that you're pointing out a hypocrisy that I've been pointing out lately and 551 00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:59.559 some others have. But I think that and I don't mean this to be 552 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:04.440 me but to hopefully be constructive in my criticism. But to your point, 553 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:09.480 the UFO site has a lot of secrets themselves. Even the New York Times 554 00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:17.559 article itself was disinformation from twenty seventeen. It was fun to make the UFO 555 00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:22.480 topic more credible, let alone. You know, all these other groups, 556 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.960 like these intelligence groups who say they have all this information and they have these 557 00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:30.800 videos, but they're not going to share them. It's pretty hypocritical. Why 558 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:34.920 not share them if you have them? You know, there is an airspace 559 00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:38.079 safety issue, there is a national security issue that and these are pressing issues 560 00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:43.159 related to the UA to be p topic. And I see those as separate 561 00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:49.159 from this current push that you know, the big D disclosure, you know, 562 00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:57.239 infotainment complex as I like to call it, right, I fully am 563 00:42:55.719 --> 00:43:00.519 I confident in that, you know, people have been seeing range things, 564 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:05.880 unexplained things, anomalous things in the sky for centuries, maybe thousands of years. 565 00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.760 You know, we look back through history, you see it. What 566 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:12.679 I am skeptical of is not that. When I am skeptical of is the 567 00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.880 fact that people think they know secrets and are going to compel the government to 568 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:19.920 release those secrets, because again, you know, if you have them, 569 00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:22.880 why not put them out? Why not put a stop to the secrecy? 570 00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:27.599 You know? Well, and to your point, there's also another factor, 571 00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:30.639 and it's probably a big factor. And I'd love to hear your ideas on 572 00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:34.079 this or maybe this is where we should be. Ideally, in an ideal 573 00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:36.199 world, this is where we would be, is that we would be like, 574 00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:38.800 Okay, great, the Government's now on top of this, The Pentagon's 575 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:42.639 got a program, they're on top of it. At the very least, 576 00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:45.679 they're going to make sure that we're safe and that there's no national security issue 577 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:50.360 related to this. Hopefully. I think, like Chris Mellen's approach was, 578 00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:54.760 you know, former decute Deputy Director of he was intelligence. I forget the 579 00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:59.559 full title title, but you know, his point was kind of we had 580 00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:02.159 this blind and you weren't making this point earlier because we were not looking at 581 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:06.840 UFOs, We were not looking at a lot of stuff. And his point 582 00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:08.920 was, and we're not going to be seeing some of this newer drone technology 583 00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:13.840 and other things. And he was proven right really when we changed are what 584 00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.679 we were looking at with our radar systems and you know, these Chinese balloons 585 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:21.480 and everything showed up that created all this ruckus. So there, we did 586 00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:25.199 have a blind spot that's now resolved. I think there's probably a big sentiment 587 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:30.840 out there, at least I feel among my colleagues and colleagues that you know, 588 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:35.239 work with NASA and the government more where they're like, cool, these 589 00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:39.639 guys got it covered. I'm cool with that. Yeah, I mean it's 590 00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:45.239 I think there's a big distinction between the people who actually work in the field 591 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:52.239 and the social media activists, you know, and you know it's yeah, 592 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:58.519 I'll leave it at that, gotcha. So moving on then to NASA, 593 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.000 So you've got the PA they're going to be see grid By nature. I 594 00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:06.639 agree with you one thousand percent. Maybe it's wise for them, and I'm 595 00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:10.719 sure they're arguing that we should be cautious rather, you know, more than 596 00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:15.119 anything can be safe. So you could see why they would be hesitant to 597 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:21.519 release information even if you know they legitimately had something. But now we've got 598 00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:27.559 NASA NASA kind of which and I would love your your kind of observations. 599 00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:32.519 It was an interesting situation because you have Bill Nelson obviously very enthusiastic about the 600 00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:37.360 topic. Yeah, maybe a couple of the scientists in the panel, people 601 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:40.039 like Mike Gold who has actually worked with Big Low and has had some history 602 00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:45.280 working in this topic. But some of the a lot of the other panelists 603 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.719 just like what you know, almost like you're in the headlights look in their 604 00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:52.920 eyes when you see them on the on television or addressing this topic, they're 605 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:55.920 just like, Okay, I don't know anything about this. But there was 606 00:45:57.079 --> 00:46:00.199 at least they did say, you know, this is a national security concerning, 607 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:04.000 this is an air safety concern at least, and it is a topic 608 00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:07.760 we need to pay attention to. You Aero needs to continue and do science, 609 00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:12.800 and we would NASHA should be involved with assisting somehow, but they were 610 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:16.599 very vague on that. Did you see NASA moving forward and do you think 611 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:22.000 that is the best place for this kind of work. I think Kirkpatrick made 612 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:25.199 that kind of comment quite a bit, that he wanted to pass the buck 613 00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:30.400 the NASA sort of well, you know, to me, what I got 614 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:35.440 from that the first public briefing, in the first public report from NASA's UAP 615 00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:38.400 group was that, you know, they want to contribute, they want to 616 00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:43.079 find ways to collect data to move this topic forward. I mean, obviously, 617 00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:45.480 you know, NASA works of the American public. Technically, they're a 618 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:50.360 publicly funded organization, and clearly there's a lot of public interest in this right 619 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:53.159 now. So I think we've seen over the last few years more people in 620 00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:58.239 academia, more people in you know, scientific and engineering and aerospace fields, 621 00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:00.840 starting to try to find ways they can contribute to, you know, studying 622 00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:06.079 UAP, studying UFO. So I think MASSA is, I don't want to 623 00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:08.400 say, playing catch up, but they're kind of following along with that trend 624 00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:12.920 of how can we contribute to this topic. And you know, they operate 625 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:17.679 some of the most sophisticated space based sensors and satellites out there, and so 626 00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:22.000 they have so many telescopes pointed up into the sky and you know, operating 627 00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:27.280 out in Earth orbit. So I think they do have some They do have 628 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.599 a valuable role to play, you know, whether they can produce any of 629 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.960 that data. We'll see whether any of it will see the light of public 630 00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:37.400 day. And you know, that's another big question, even though it is 631 00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.239 publicly funded. So I don't know. I get the sense that they want 632 00:47:40.239 --> 00:47:46.880 to contribute and they're still figuring out how to do it. So another kind 633 00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:51.800 of sticky topic. But of of course it's always fun to get into the 634 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:57.079 most controversial stuff, especially when someone like you has some insight. And I 635 00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.639 think you've written about this lately, is that when it comes to the science 636 00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:06.239 of this topic, kind of the people that have taken the lead, who 637 00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:12.840 are legitimate, respected scientists out there, have been highly criticized for their their 638 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:19.480 processes. So being specific Avy Low So when he was looking for this latest 639 00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:24.079 meteorite he believes was possibly inner cellar, possibly you taque technology, not only 640 00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:31.079 are they questioning the whether or not what he received retrieved was anomalous, even 641 00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:37.039 though there are already questions about the manner in which that those samples were retrieved. 642 00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.480 Now they're saying that they're likely was not even a meteorite to begin with 643 00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:46.559 that the signals that they received indicating that were probably from a truck, and 644 00:48:46.599 --> 00:48:51.400 then moving on from there, just in this latest report, you know, 645 00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:57.800 one of the things that Jeff la and doctor Gary Nolan, Stanford professor in 646 00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:01.400 the DNA area, also very well respected, is that their science was a 647 00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:06.280 little off, and to be honest, at the Scientific Coalition of UAP studies, 648 00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.000 our analysis did not really show some of the materials they believe to be 649 00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:15.039 anomalous to be anomalous. And then in the slatest historical report that erraput out, 650 00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:19.559 they also confirmed we did not find that material to be anomalous. But 651 00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:24.360 there's a lot of pushback from both of these camps that these conventional scientists are 652 00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:29.400 wrong and these things are anomalous, and it's kind of a very weird situation. 653 00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:37.639 What you make of all of that, man woof Well, as someone 654 00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:40.360 who reports on this, I try and stay objective, try not to have 655 00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:45.840 an opinion on it. It is startling to me how many papers have been 656 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:52.199 published, both peer reviewed and still going through the process that are calling into 657 00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:57.760 question, you know, doctor Loeb's expedition and his analysis of these ferals. 658 00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:02.519 So I don't know. I'm trying to keep an open mind about it. 659 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:07.000 And doctor Lobe is obviously a very you know, well respected scientist. They're 660 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:12.000 at Harvard, so we'll see. I've seen a lot of criticism, a 661 00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:15.639 lot or a lot of analysis, people saying a lot of commentary, people 662 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:19.079 saying, you know, scientists should stay in their field and kind of stay 663 00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:22.000 in their lanes and stuff. But when it comes to you know, studying 664 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:25.400 anomaly, studying UFOs, like what field can you really approach it from? 665 00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:30.920 You know, it's such a combination of so many different disciplines in so many 666 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:32.800 fields. So I don't know. I don't know what to make of that. 667 00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:36.840 I try not to have an opinion, try and stay objective, but 668 00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:43.079 I am a little concerned about how many scientists have concerned for doctor Lobe and 669 00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:46.559 you know, possibly his reputation moving forward. How many planetary scientists, how 670 00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:50.960 many seismologists, how many material scientists are coming out and saying, well, 671 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:53.639 wait a minute, you know, let's back up here and really examine these 672 00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:59.039 claims. As for doctor Nolan, you know, I haven't followed a lot 673 00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:01.400 of his work, to be honest. But you know, I think with 674 00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:06.440 anybody, anybody out there making big claims about the research, put your data 675 00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:10.199 out there, let third parties analyze it. And you know that's the best 676 00:51:10.199 --> 00:51:14.320 way. That's how science is done, right. You publish your data. 677 00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:15.960 You let other people take them and run their own experience and see if they 678 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:22.840 can replicate your conclusions, see if they can replicate your data right exactly. 679 00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:29.000 And I hope that is more of what happens. And of course that's my 680 00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:32.599 big thing, that's what I would like to help encourage and make space for. 681 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:37.840 But do you see that being possible? And you know, we're in 682 00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:43.320 this state where you know, the UFO fil that is feeling kind of slighted 683 00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:45.320 that, you know, they thought they were going to have their big moment 684 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:51.360 to show Roswell was real and everything and that didn't happen. People feeling disappointed 685 00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:54.719 and kind of drifting off to your point, you know, other the conversations 686 00:51:54.800 --> 00:52:00.360 kind of looking like they did many years ago, kind of coming back around. 687 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:05.639 But we do have this interest that I think from mainstream scientists, and 688 00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:08.719 I believe there's something to capitalize on. Do you how do we move forward 689 00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:12.800 from here? I guess this is my question. I think ultimately progress has 690 00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:16.880 been made because the topic has moved from the fringes more into the mainstream. 691 00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:22.800 We are seeing more scientists, you know, very credential, respected scientists approaching 692 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:29.280 the topic credibly, and you know that everybody has to talk about the stigma, 693 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:30.920 right we need to remove the stigma, and I think that is happening. 694 00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:35.880 We have people like you know, Ryan Graves coming out and saying, 695 00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:38.000 as a fighter pilot, I have seen strange things in the sky, and 696 00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:43.400 he started his Aerospace Safety Foundation. You know, NASA has its own UAP 697 00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:46.760 group. So I think progress has been made and I think it's it's no 698 00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:52.440 longer this you know, topic to ridicule and laugh at, even though some 699 00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:57.960 people still do obviously, But I think ultimately the past seven years have been 700 00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:04.800 very good in terms of bringing UFOs into the mainstream and making them a credible 701 00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:07.960 subject of study. Now I think we're still figuring out ways to do that, 702 00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:12.480 you know, because again, it is one of the most complex topics 703 00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:15.280 in the world. You can't just approach it from anyone scientific discipline, and 704 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:22.559 it incorporates so many and even the social sciences, right, So moving forward, 705 00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:25.159 I would like to see you know, more data being published publicly, 706 00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:30.079 like we just talked about. I would like to see groups like NASA and 707 00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:32.519 a lot of the other groups we talked about continuing to find ways they can 708 00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:38.400 contribute to it. You know, I hope some of the vitriol on social 709 00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:44.280 media can be toned down because you know it. I think the more voices 710 00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:49.480 we have contributing to this topic, and the larger diversity voices we have contributing 711 00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:52.000 to the topic, will also help move it forward. You know, if 712 00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:55.719 it's only to die hard believers out there, well then that's going to take 713 00:53:55.719 --> 00:54:00.880 it straight back into the kind of taboo stigma area it has been. But 714 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:04.880 if we have you know, a wide range of voices, more skeptical voices 715 00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:07.559 on one side, more you know, believer voices on one side, then 716 00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:12.480 somewhere in the middle, hopefully the truth can be found and progress can be 717 00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:16.320 made. I agree. I think that's a great perspective, and it's great 718 00:54:16.360 --> 00:54:22.679 to see that you have such a positive outlook on moving forward, which is 719 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:27.960 exciting to see. So I'm sure you're going to keep covering this topic absolutely. 720 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:30.199 You know, it's been a lifelong passion, like I said at the 721 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:34.880 beginning of the show, and you know, we're hopefully going to see more 722 00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:38.199 error reports pretty soon. You know, the SCU is having their conference in 723 00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:40.960 a couple of months here. That should be pretty exciting. So, you 724 00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:46.639 know, I think there are there are some very worthwhile developments happening in here 725 00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:50.119 that we can cover, So, you know, I hope so. And 726 00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:53.960 you know, I think it sounded a little dismissive and skeptical earlier about some 727 00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:58.639 of the claims being made. I would love for them to be true. 728 00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:02.119 I would love nothing more for you know, a crashed flying saucer to be 729 00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:06.480 out in the American desert somewhere. You know, let's go find it, 730 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.400 you know, show us where it is. You know. One last question 731 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:15.840 related to that though, which is one of the funny things about this conversation 732 00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:22.800 about extraterrestrials. So it's to your point that the reality quote unquote that is 733 00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:28.840 being told is out there, is that people are being harmed by humans to 734 00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:34.800 heap the secrets and by aliens who are abducting people. That is really scary 735 00:55:34.920 --> 00:55:38.760 stuff. And of course if that were to be true, you would want 736 00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:44.639 to be very careful with that information. It seems a bit reckless for some, 737 00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:47.880 especially some of these politicians, to be going out and saying, hey, 738 00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:52.880 there's something to this, when what they're saying there's something too is that 739 00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:55.280 aliens are coming and taking you at night and there's nothing you can do about 740 00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:00.280 it. Yeah, yeah, it's it's all. It's kind of hypocrite to 741 00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:02.079 me. On some hand. You have people saying people have been murdered, 742 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:06.239 you know, over this, and then but they're out there telling everybody that 743 00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:08.960 people have been murdered and that they know the secrets people have been murdered for 744 00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:14.320 all right. I don't know that's a good point. And luckily I've never 745 00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:16.679 been and you know, you and I are shuttling out information to the masses. 746 00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:21.079 We have larger audiences than most, and we're taking this very seriously and 747 00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:23.480 nobody's telling me what to print. And I'm sure the same goes for you. 748 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:30.920 But I have never been threatened by anyone, except for maybe trolls on 749 00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:34.960 UFO Twitter. Have you ever been threatened to hey stay away from this story. 750 00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.760 No? Never, And you know, like when I was pursuing the 751 00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:40.960 Salvator polist patents, I mean I was knocking on some pretty high level doors 752 00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:45.360 within the US Navy there, and you know, filing Foy after Foya after 753 00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:47.920 Foya every single day. And no, I haven't been. I've definitely had 754 00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:52.360 some weird packages come to my house and some weird phone calls, but I 755 00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:55.079 have never been threatened. In fact, the most threatening thing that's happened to 756 00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:58.960 me, I'll tell you off camera. It was with a very high profile 757 00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:02.320 personality, but it wasn't a direct threat. Now, great, all right, 758 00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:06.119 well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been 759 00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:09.559 really enlightening. We'll have to do this again. Absolutely definitely. Thank you 760 00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:15.239 so much to Brett for being on the show. I am a big fan 761 00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:17.760 of space dot com and I'm a big fan of Brett and his work, 762 00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:22.000 so it's great to have him on. But now it's time for the Enigma 763 00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:30.199 Sighting of the Week. We have partnered with Enigma Labs to bring you interesting 764 00:57:30.280 --> 00:57:34.519 UAP sidings weekly that they collect via their app and website. If you have 765 00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:37.079 a report to submit, you can download the app at the Apple App Store 766 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:42.360 or submit it via the website at Enigma labs dot io. In the interest 767 00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:45.199 of disclosure, I am a paid consultant for Enigma. But that's how I 768 00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:50.480 stay up to date on all of the videos that are coming in and the 769 00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:52.840 best one. So let's take a look, all right. So what I'd 770 00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:58.800 like to do is look at two sightings these days, and one of those 771 00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:01.400 is one that I can explain, and the other is one that I can't 772 00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:07.440 explain, and I need your help explaining it or looking into maybe it's something 773 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:10.840 more mysterious. And this week I chose SpaceX. We're getting a lot of 774 00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:16.320 super cool SpaceX pictures and videos in and they're making a lot of people freak 775 00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:21.519 out because they don't know what it is. So i'll cover that first. 776 00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:25.199 In fact, let's look at this one here. This is one of the 777 00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:31.760 best examples I think of a space X rocket and it shows what a lot 778 00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:37.119 of people are seeing. But this one captures it just perfectly. So this 779 00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:42.800 was at Odesso Airport in Odessa, Texas. This one was on March fourth, 780 00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:45.400 twenty twenty four. I actually saw one about a week ago. Share 781 00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:51.199 the video with you, and I'm in Arizona. And this one was launched 782 00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:55.000 in California. This one might have been launched in California, but they do 783 00:58:55.119 --> 00:59:00.000 launch it from Texas and Florida. Those are the three areas where they launch 784 00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:02.239 the most, so this one is probably a Texas one. But let's take 785 00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:07.039 a look here. So it looks like a bright object, and this is 786 00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:15.480 what's exciting. You see this plume. Back it up. Apologize ahead of 787 00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:20.079 time if there's cut words there often is in UFO sightings. But look, 788 00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:25.920 it's like a bright object and then this bloom, the circular plume comes shooting 789 00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:30.519 out of it, almost like it's some kind of super shield or some kind 790 00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:37.440 of you know, technical device. Some UFO is right there. Looks still 791 00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:42.039 weird like a side by show, but that is space ACT. So essentially 792 00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:46.320 what's happening here is it's probably a stage change. So in other words, 793 00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:52.079 there's a separation going on between and it even looks like it the two objects. 794 00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:53.840 So it's, uh, well, let me give me a rocket over 795 00:59:53.880 --> 01:00:04.440 here. Let me get my Space X model here. So as it's flying, 796 01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:09.239 you know it's going and then at one point it separates and there's an 797 01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:15.599 explosion there that separates those objects, and that's what you're seeing as a result 798 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:20.960 of those explosions. So why do we see space X why do they look 799 01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:23.760 so incredible compared to other rockets, and it's because of the fuel. They 800 01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:29.239 they use some kind of fuel that has from what I understand, and ash 801 01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:32.679 in it, and it's more visible than when it gets admitted like this, 802 01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:39.039 and so that's why it creates these spectacular effects like what we're seeing. So 803 01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:44.239 that's a really cool one, really weird. So let's take a look at 804 01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:47.960 mine. So if we took a lik at my video here, Remember this 805 01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:54.760 is Arizona, and this rocket that we're looking at actually launched in California over 806 01:00:54.800 --> 01:01:00.920 the ocean, and I can see it this well in Phoenix, but I 807 01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:06.400 mean, nobody's going to miss this in this guy. In fact, this 808 01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:09.519 is the third time I've seen this. The first couple of times I was 809 01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:14.360 on my way to Safeway and I got there and people are floored and they're 810 01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:16.079 taking videos and I had to burst their bubble and say, sorry, guys, 811 01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:22.639 this is SpaceX. But yeah, it's just extremely visible and incredible to 812 01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:27.119 see. But you can see here, you can the entire trail of the 813 01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:31.280 rocket. The exhaust that's being put out just spreads further and further apart, 814 01:01:32.239 --> 01:01:37.880 making this huge, kind of weird shape. And so it just looked spectacular 815 01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:40.440 and really weird up there, but that's what we're seeing. These are space 816 01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:46.639 x. They're not aliens or anything really that extraordinary. But now next time 817 01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:52.079 you see it, you won't mistake it for something mysterious. All right, 818 01:01:52.159 --> 01:02:01.360 But now let's look at the more mysterious sighting whish play here. This is 819 01:02:01.400 --> 01:02:07.039 in Campina Sal Paolo, Brazil. This one was March fourteenth to twenty twenty 820 01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:12.480 four. I think they're speaking Portuguese, so we might not be able to 821 01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:17.400 understand them, but it's a fireball. And look at how odd this is. 822 01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:24.920 So it's like a light in the sky with this trail of blinky lights. 823 01:02:25.519 --> 01:02:32.880 It looks like these blinky lights are falling to the ground, but they're 824 01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:38.320 probably not. So this is probably something that is coming into the atmosphere and 825 01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:46.039 breaking up, and those trails are just like things that are also breaking up 826 01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:51.840 into the atmosphere and lighting up. So it could be an object and it's 827 01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:54.079 got this huge tail, and the tail, you know, is debris, 828 01:02:54.639 --> 01:03:00.159 and then these little flashes could be the debris that are larger objects that are 829 01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:09.000 big enough that they create a enough of a burn when they're coming into the 830 01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:13.920 atmosphere. That you can see them. That's my only guess. I'm not 831 01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:17.039 sure, but whoa is that weird? I haven't seen anything like it, 832 01:03:17.079 --> 01:03:21.440 and there's at least a couple of videos, so look at this. This 833 01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:28.159 is the second video. I mean, unless it's some kind of fireworks, 834 01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:38.400 maybe that is so strange. I'm guessing because it's typically the case. There's 835 01:03:38.440 --> 01:03:42.880 a simple explanation and I just don't know what it is. So I'm really 836 01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:45.320 excited to get some responses and to see what you guys think that this might 837 01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:50.880 be. But I really this one's definitely a head scratcher for me. So 838 01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:54.679 I don't know what this is. This one is Enigma two nine zero one 839 01:03:54.760 --> 01:04:00.880 four five. I will put the links to both enigmas below. Please share 840 01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:04.079 widely to one on the first one to show them, hey, this is 841 01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:08.280 actually SpaceX and when this is what they look like, and on this one 842 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:11.360 to say, hey, what the heck do you think this is? So 843 01:04:11.400 --> 01:04:19.079 we can figure this out? Really really weird one pretty pretty interesting, but 844 01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:25.159 as usual, And when it comes to Enigma Labs, remember this is Enigma 845 01:04:25.239 --> 01:04:30.440 Labs dot io. Here is the website. There is a blog where you 846 01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:32.440 could get a lot of information the libraries, you know, one of my 847 01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:39.000 favorite areas because you've got a lot of historical information there. But the FAQs, 848 01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:44.639 all of the controversial questions or any of the questions that are causing controversy 849 01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.880 with Enigma, they're all answered right here in the faq. There's also a 850 01:04:48.920 --> 01:04:54.559 discourse that Enigma has that you can join and the whole companies. In the 851 01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:58.519 discourse, you can talk to anybody, you can suggest changes, you can 852 01:04:58.599 --> 01:05:02.639 ask questions, you can converse with with you know, the staff there, 853 01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:08.880 so they're very open. A lot of these conspiracy theories, and of course 854 01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:15.400 everybody's everybody has conspiracy theories about everybody, but they're just really not found it. 855 01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:17.840 This idea that they're hiding information even though they have this FAQ where they're 856 01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:24.719 answering all the questions from people just shows those type of trolley people that like 857 01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:29.360 to create all this negative noise about you know, people doing serious research in 858 01:05:29.360 --> 01:05:33.119 this field. It's usually based on false information, and that is certainly the 859 01:05:33.159 --> 01:05:36.800 case when it comes to Enigma as well. What Enigma is it's a bunch 860 01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:41.000 of cool dude, It's a bunch of tech people creating a really cool app. 861 01:05:41.320 --> 01:05:43.599 You could see it there, you know, on the screen in that 862 01:05:43.639 --> 01:05:46.400 little example, and it's a lot of fun. So and we wouldn't be 863 01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:50.159 getting some of these cool videos that I've been sharing without this really cool app. 864 01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:55.239 So check it out. So that is our show for the week. 865 01:05:55.360 --> 01:05:59.840 Thank you so much for joining us. Be sure to subscribe if you haven't, 866 01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:02.440 Please share this far and wide if you have friends that are into this 867 01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:06.920 topic and you want to share kind of a more grounded take that can get 868 01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:13.079 more of your conservative kind of conservative on this topic friends to take a look 869 01:06:13.079 --> 01:06:16.039 and maybe take things seriously. And you know, I am very open to 870 01:06:16.119 --> 01:06:21.119 the idea of skeptics in this field and getting involved. We need skeptics because 871 01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:26.079 without the skepticism, like I reviewed earlier, we don't get to the answers. 872 01:06:26.119 --> 01:06:29.920 And the skepticism is a big part of science, and we will get 873 01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:31.960 the answers. And I guess that's going to be my final remark here is 874 01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:36.280 that, you know, I hope people keep some faith and hope there has 875 01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:40.800 been a lot of people bummed out saying, you know, these latest reports 876 01:06:41.119 --> 01:06:45.199 they just poo poo the whole topic, and now everything's just going to go 877 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:47.960 back the way it was, the way it was was no one was covering 878 01:06:48.119 --> 01:06:53.239 anything. The way it is is as you have seen, we've got tons 879 01:06:53.639 --> 01:07:00.320 of mainstream news sources, mainstream scientists talking and writing and discussing this topic. 880 01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:03.440 And what we need to do is make sure that continues. Engage those people 881 01:07:03.760 --> 01:07:08.800 doing interviews like with a podcast here, or getting them to write articles, 882 01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:13.840 or getting them to participate in projects of data gathering or other type of research, 883 01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:20.199 and develop and foster this cooperative community of people looking for answers. And 884 01:07:20.239 --> 01:07:24.360 that's what we're going to do, and that's what we'll be doing moving forward 885 01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:27.519 in the future, and the results are going to be positive and good. 886 01:07:27.639 --> 01:07:30.320 To stick with me. We're going to have a fun time, We're going 887 01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:32.320 to have an interesting time, and the next few years are going to be 888 01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:38.400 certainly revelatory, I believe. Thank you for listening or watching. Thank you 889 01:07:38.519 --> 01:07:41.920 so much for joining today. Hope you have a couple of great weeks and 890 01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:42.880 we'll talk to you soon.