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Hey everybody, and welcome back to
another episode of JavaScript Jabber. This week

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on our panel, we have Steve
Edwards. Hello from one of my woman

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Raindy Portland called in Raindy Portland.
Actually, I'm Charles Maxwood from top End

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Dev. So we've got a special
guest this week. It's Nick. Is

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it Kalayani? That's right? Nick? Do you want to just introduce yourself,

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let everybody know who you are and
why you're famous. I wouldn't call

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myself famous, but hi, I'm
Nick Karaliani and I'm coming in from Mountain

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View, California, Silicon Valley.
I'm the founder and CEO of a company

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called Decentology, and what we are
doing is we are building something called the

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Hyperverse. This is a platform for
Web two developers to start building on Web

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three. We want to make it
super easy for that to happen. And

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what we've done is taken the model
that JavaScript developers everywhere know NPM, so

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NPM installed modules. We are extending
that same capability to Web three and blockchains,

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so you can easily build applications without
having to learn any new languages or

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anything. You stick the JavaScript HDM
out and build things out. So that's

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what I'd like to talk about today, about building applications and about blockchain and

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Web three in geno. All right, so there were about eight buzzwords in

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there, just with the blockchain and
everything else. I'm a little curious because

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I've heard a number of things about
Web three and I'm not exactly sure.

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Like when I try and explain it
to people, I'm like, this is

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what I kind of understand, but
I don't feel like I explain it well

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because I don't completely understand it.
So like, what is web three?

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What's not Web three? You know, regarding the stuff that's out there,

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Like, how do we clarify this
so people go, oh, that's what

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it is, and that's how it
relates to what I do you know using

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current web technology. Yeah, that's
a really good question. So I think

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of Web three as two parts.
The first part is the technology and the

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second part is the culture. So
let's talk about the technology first. So

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it's basically any technology or set of
technologies that are decentralized. And I want

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to be clear here that there's distinction
between distributed and decentralized. So decentralized literally

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means that there isn't a single point
or single server or single control authority.

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So decentralized systems can be blockchains,
they can be storage, they can be

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other protocols. Also, for example, there might be an identity protocol that

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doesn't rely on blockchains or storage,
or might rely on both, you know.

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So the idea is more about not
having a central control point or a

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central entity that controls it. And
it also translates to infrastructure where there isn't

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a central point where all the infrastructure
is. So that's the technology aspect of

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it, and the canonical example of
decentralized technology is blockchain. The more technical

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term for it is distributed ledger technology
or DLT, but we commonly know it

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as blockchain, and we can purse
that out a bit more. So that's

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one aspect of Web three, which
is the technology, but it's also a

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cultural thing. Web three is about
not having sort of state actors or centralized

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companies, etc. On your data
or dictate how decisions are made. It's

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also sort of a culture where people
are starting to think more about economic equity

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throughout the world, where people who
are unbanked might have access to financial tools

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and financial resources, etc. So
it's both the combination of the technology and

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the culture and together. The umbrella
catch all term for it is web three.

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I gotcha. And I think we
see a lot of this when people

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start talking about kind of the stranglehold
that maybe Facebook or some of these other

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bigger companies Google have over the flow
of information. Right, So a lot

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of people get their news off of
social sites like Facebook, or the majority

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of the world uses Google as their
search engine. And so it's like,

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well, if Google isn't always a
good actor, and I'm not going to

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get into that. I don't think
that's necessarily I don't want to start a

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pissing match, I guess, is
what I'm saying. But then if it's

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centralized, then it's like, look, then anybody who ought to be a

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player can be a player, right, and we don't have to worry about

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whether or not Google or anybody else
is playing nicely now or in the future

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exactly. You know. One of
the main tenets of web three technologies in

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general is about the ability for you
to be in control of your data,

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your privacy, and not essentially be
marketed be a marketing you know how they

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say, like, if you're not
paying for it, then you are the

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product, right, and so it's
that getting away from that and trying to

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build a world where you, as
an individual have control over your own data

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and your own ability to use services
without revealing things about yourself that you may

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not want revealed. Yeah, I
see that as a lot of the reasons

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why things like VPNs are starting to
become much more in vogue, right,

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is because it's not only like the
centralized endpoints, but even the centralized internet

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providers and things like that kind of
make people nervous. Right, It's like,

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I don't I don't know who can
see it along the line, I

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don't know who else is on this
wife by I don't so by by opening

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things up, it just changes the
game a little bit. I think VPNs

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are great, but you have to
keep in mind that they hide one aspect

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of your total digital experience, Right. But there's more the moment you get

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into the point where you are unable
to give fake information anymore, perhaps it's

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a credit card or something like that, that that changes everything at that point.

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Right, So it is it about
kind of this inherent distrust or is

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it about more than that? Is
it because you mentioned like owning your own

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data? So is it about control? Is it about. I mean,

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what what's the overarching concern that people
have? Yeah, that's you know,

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you use the good phrase, they're
distressed. So decentralized technology, blockchain especially

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is about trustlessness. You don't need
to trust anybody or anything because the data

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is immutable and you can trust that
the data has been hasn't been tempered with

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or manipulated with, etc. I
think, you know, you have to

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think about Web three when you get
down to the bottom layer here. It's

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yes, privacy is a concern.
Yes, the right to own your data

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is a concern. But I don't
think we are there quite yet in terms

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of being able to have these systems
built at scale where we can assure privacy,

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where we can assure the ability for
people to control data. What we

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have started with right now is the
very fundamental starting to build the sort of

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the building blocks of this technology and
experimenting with trustlessness. That's what we are

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focused on right now is can the
technology be built and deployed in such a

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way that the cryptographic proofs that exists, et cetera are adequate to ensure that

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any data that you have stored can
trustlessness need trustlessness need be verified to be

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unmodified or untampered with. So that's
really the fundamental level we are working with

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right now, and it's going up
from there as applications scale up. So

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I kind of want to just make
sure that Steve or AJ don't have other

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things that they want to add to
this before we start talking about like how

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it's actually how it actually comes together, because I think sort of these fundamental

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cultural ideas are important to what Web
three is, and if we don't understand

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those, then we we don't really
understand what we're trying to build. So

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I know, you know, as
I was listening to you, I'm not

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you know, I haven't really studied
the blockchain and the little pieces of the

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cotton technology that are involved in Web
three. But I'm just thinking of times

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in the past where I've heard podcasts
or red blog post or any other information

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out there about people attempting to decentralize
the web. You know, there's always

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some new not assarily paradigm, but
you know, network as somebody's working on

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or some other way that people are
going to quote unquote decentralize the web and

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help get away from all these walled
gardens that we find ourselves dealing with,

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so I'll have to say that I'll
believe it when I see it. I

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tend to be pretty skeptical of things
like this, so I'm curious to see

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how it works and maybe try to
understand a little better. But when something

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I actually see something functioning, then
I'll believe it. I guess, yeah,

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you know. I think you have
reason to be skeptical because the technology

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is not yet available at scale.
And while the technology works, the problem

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is that we haven't done as a
community at large. We haven't done a

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good job with a user experience,
which is why most people haven't experienced it

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the way in a way that they
can understand it and the way they can

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believe it and they can really take
advantage of the technology. I'm a pragmatist.

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I don't believe that decentralized technologies are
going to replace everything. I think

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they are sort of an evolution of
where we are, and there are a

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very specific set of problems and challenges
that they are a great solution for.

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But they aren't a solution for everything, and we may or may not evolve

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the technology to a point where it
is fast enough and scalable enough where it

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can potentially replace what we have today, which works very well, but it

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has its problems, Like all technologies
come with some set of problems, and

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so I'm very optimistic though that for
the types of problems that Web three is

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designed to solve, it is already
showing a lot of promise for working very

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well. So you express like,
you know, the ability to sort of

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replace Web two. I don't think
that's necessarily really going to happen, but

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there is a specific set of people
or entities that could benefit from having a

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web presence that cannot be shut down
by state authorities for example, or dictator

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or you know, bad regimes.
So decentralized storage like IPFS, which is

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an overblown acronym for Interplanetary File system, it's just a decentralized storage system.

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There's also one called sky net,
and this is called Those are some of

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the popular ones. They make it
possible for you to essentially have a website

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just like you would on Web two, except that you cannot shut it down

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because it is basically decentralized on so
many different nodes that you can shut one

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down, but there's many others still
available. So for us who live in

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the United States, for example,
where we have freedoms, etc. It's

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very easy to be complacent about the
fact that, oh, yeah, you

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know, you have your ISP and
you pay them money and you have your

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website and they won't mess with it. But in other places it's really hard

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to have that kind of capability and
hard to get a message out and the

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truth about what's really happening without censorship, et cetera. And those are some

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important use cases that's we need to
provide for. You know, one of

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the I guess one of the analogies
that comes to mind takes me back to

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days of Napster and then Whinmire and
some of the other music downloading things,

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back when that first coming in,
where you had different copies of file all

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over the place and you sort of
download pieces. In general, is your

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own MP three file, which is
a time back. Is that similar to

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what we're talking about with web three
or is that just the same idea just

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with totally different implementation. I mean, like yeah, something like that.

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Yeah, yeah, there's similarities,
but there's also differences. What those protocols

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did was essentially allowed streaming from multiple
notes simultaneously to address the bandwidth available with

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multiple notes, especially with home users
who don't have a lot of upstream bandwidth,

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right, So by doing that in
parallel where you get chunks of data

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from many different locations at the same
time, it addresses that. So it

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was designed to address both the storage
problem and also the bandwidth problem. But

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decentralization is about a slightly different kind
of focus. It's about making sure that

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this availability off a certain asset,
whether it's media or text or whatever,

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and you cannot shut it down.
So while the while reading you can take

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advantage the protocol might take advantage of
multiple nodes being available. The most important

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thing is availability and also the ability
for the network nodes to validate that data

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has not been tempered with. On
Mapster, for example, you couldn't tell

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if a file named a certain thing
actually contained some malicious payload, right,

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There's no way for you to tell
that. But in decentralized networks, because

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of the cryptographic underpinnings of it,
you can cryptographically verify that nothing has been

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tempered with. That is I think
a very very important aspect of the protocols.

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So I can you'll hear me.
Okay, so I've missed part of

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this discussion, but I'm going to
put in there because of what's happened with

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open c Okay, yeah, given
that you actually know a key, which

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no one does, then you can
verify that something came from a particular key.

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However, it's what's happened with open
Sea. People go steal other people's

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work, they sign it with their
key, they collect the money, and

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they're selling hashes of pictures that they
didn't make, they didn't produce, they

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don't own, and there's no legal
rescourse for it because they technically didn't actually

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sell anything that is copywritten, because
they sold a hash which was not the

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picture. So I and also we
pretend that IPFS just exists out in the

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ether among the Interplanetary System network,
but it turns out that there's only one

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planet with internet. And it also
turns out that those hard drives have to

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exist somewhere. And if you're not
the if you're not paying, then you're

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the product. So who are these
people that are storing all this data?

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What reliability guarantees would I possibly hope
to have, and why are they incentivized

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to host it? Yeah, so
there's quite a few questions, is there.

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So let's break it down. We'll
start with the open sea issue.

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So open c is, first of
all, a centralized marketplace. It's not

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a decentralized marketplace, and therefore it
comes with all the problems that centralized marketplaces

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have. In general, it is
subject to scammers, It is subject to

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all kinds of malicious things. It
does not change the fact that the actual

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assets on chain, they are subject
to the same cryptographic integrity as anywhere else.

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Yeah, but what I'm saying is
I can upload a virus to IPFS

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and you could verify its cryptographic integrity. That doesn't make it not a virus.

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Sure, and if I intended to
download a virus, then that would

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be great. But if I didn't, I will want to make sure that

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I knew who the person or the
persons were and could verify the on chain

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reputation before I downloaded that. So
then I agree that's conflating two issues.

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Okay, fair, fair, Yeah, I want to derail us back to

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the topic at hand, though,
because this is like verifying files and things

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like that, and when we're talking
about is kind of this decentralized web apparatus

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that we're going to build apps on. Right, So my question is is

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you know you said this is a
good thing for some use cases, but

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not others. Right, And so
I'm curious, like where because we kind

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of went to the napster example,
you know, and BitTorrent things like that,

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but that's not really what we're talking
about. So what is a good

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use case for this? Like where
are we looking at and going, all

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right, this makes a lot of
sense for Web three and what we're offering

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here. Sure, there's quite a
few different applications. There's some in the

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domain of DeFi decentralized finance, but
I think I'd like to use one in

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the domain of NFTs non fungible tokens
because it's something that most people have heard

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about. They may not actually understand
it, but it's a good one.

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So let's say that you have a
digital asset that's actually valuable. And I

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don't want to get into what's valuable
and what's not, but let's assume that

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there is a digital asset that's value
like the podcast episode, a podcast episode

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fantastic, it's like the the premiere
one or some amazing thing, and it

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is available as a digital asset and
it is extremely valuable. Let's say that

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it's a million dollars. Many people
want to claim ownership of it and have

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like a stake in it, but
they can't. So one of the ways

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in which you can orchestrate a smart
contract with that digital asset is to have

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fractional ownership, so multiple people can
have a piece of that on chain cryptographically

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verified through their private keys. And
you could say that, well, I

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can just do that by having a
webque application with maybe a DocuSign or something

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like that, where everyone has signed
it, and that's great. Now the

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problem there is transfer of ownership and
also who controls that particular asset. So

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in the case of this fractional ownership, what you could do is set up

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a smart contract and you say something
like if sixty percent of people vote a

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certain way, then the asset will
be transferred. Otherwise we'll hold on to

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it. As a very simple decison
point there, individually, each of those

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fractions and maybe you know it's a
million dollars and you've made it into a

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thousand fractions, each of those could
independently sell their stake anytime they wanted to

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without consulting the others. It doesn't
matter. It's just transferring the ownership of

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their asset over. So that's a
very simple use case, we're on chain

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without relying on any external entities,
without having any kind of storage. It

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just works because of the cryptographic integrity
that smart contracts allow you to have.

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So that's one thing. Of course, the canonical example is cryptocurrency, but

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I know that that could get political
and get into like what's the event of

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fiat et cetera. But I think
fractional ownership of digital assets is a pretty

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good, pretty good example. Other
simpler examples are where let's say that there's

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a band and they issue an NFT, and that NFT is simply nothing more

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than support for the band. But
also if you happen to shoe up at

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their concert or whatever, just by
virtue of having that NFT, maybe you

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get some sweat, or you get
upgraded, you get backstage passes or something

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like that. Where yes, you
could have that exact same thing available maybe

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why a ticket master or something like
that, But this is the challenge there.

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You've got a middle person. And
one of the big challenges in tickets,

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for example, the concerts is fraud. You don't know if it's authentic

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or not, if you're transferring or
buying it from someone else, and that's

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a huge problem. That problem goes
away when you have NFTs as access tokens

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for digital events. So, as
I mentioned earlier, I'm a pragmatist,

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and I believe that with Web two
technologies you can always build in enough layers

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to enforce the kind of security you
have natively with blockchain, that is one

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hundred percent given. But when the
technology exists to simple do this at scale

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and in a simple way using open
tools, you have to pause and think,

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like what is better proprietary solutions every
single time or an open solution for

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everybody. If you're giving an example
of a ticket, though, that is

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something that is centralized. It's issued
by a ticketing authority, and I don't

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see how a smart contract helps that. Well, like I said, like,

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let's take the secondary market, right, people go to stub hub and

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sell. Stub Hub takes a cut. When you buy from there, you

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do not know if it's authentic.
You might get a QR code or a

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barcode or something like that. You
hope that it's authentic. You won't find

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out until you go to the turnstile. But with a smart contract, the

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central authority that issues those tickets,
they would issue them as NFTs and they

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are fraud proof, they cannot be
tempered with. They are always going to

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be authentic. You can know if
it's been redeemed or not when you transfer

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it. There is no middleman to
worry about. You just transfer it and

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you're done. You don't need anyone
to take a cut off the price,

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right, because so the issuance is
on the ledger of the ticket, correct,

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and then the t answer for the
ticket is also on the ledger,

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so you can verify it every step
of the way. Yeah, exactly,

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if sub hub was selling the tickets, they could have a way to do

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this as well. As I said, you can always find ways to build

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bulletproof things. I guess if it
was if there was a standard for it

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that did exist and it was cheap
to do. Which my understanding is that

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smart contracts are you lose value every
time you'd take an action because there's a

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gas price. And so if the
ticket was originally ninety nine dollars, but

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then you sell it to someone,
then that the smart contract reaps a cut.

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And then if they traded to someone
else, the smart contract reaps a

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cut. So I don't I don't
understand that. Yeah, that's actually incorrect.

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I'm sorry. Okay, great,
I will correct that. But before

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that, you know, I want
to take a step back. I understand

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everyone who was skeptical about decentralized technologies
I get. Let me step back a

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little bit and put you into that
mind frame. When Mango DIB was first

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coming into prominence, everyone said,
document databasis these are stupid. Why would

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anyone want that? You know,
SQL works just great, and now you

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look and it is pervasive. It
is everywhere because people figured out that there

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are certain use cases where that technology. Document centric databases work really well.

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They work well especially for social media
applications, etc. Where you don't have

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to do one hundred different sub queries
to return a set of data. So

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this is exactly how we need to
approach decentralized technology. I don't expect everyone

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to believe it or even to care
about it, but it is a technology,

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it is there, and it is
going to stick around. So the

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question is will you just continue to
be skeptical about it, or will you

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dive a little bit into it and
explore some other use cases. So that's

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what I was, show me a
use case where it is so the metrics

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are more convenient cheaper or more performing. Right for something to take hold traditionally,

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now there is the hype cycle,
the fads, the fashion type of

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things that defy those right. But
typically well, people buy health, wealth

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and status. That's what people buy. So the status one can just take

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all sorts of forms and it doesn't
obey the regular rules. But most things,

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for a technical advantage to take place, it has to be significantly cheaper,

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significantly more convenient, or significantly more
performance. So if you look at

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you, show me a use case
where this is not a Rube Goldberg machine.

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Show me a use case where it's
significantly something better, where you could

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you know, it's clear. It's
easy to say, oh no, we

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don't just need to tweak stub hub
a little and add an extra check.

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But that oh man, if we
did this, Oh we'd save on costs,

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we'd delight customers, etc. Yeah. We speak from a perspective where

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we have access to any bank we
want, anytime we want. Let's take

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a large version of the world that's
unbanked. Cross border finance is huge for

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them. That is only possible with
cryptocurrency. There's the use case that is

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in use right now in countries where
people are using cryptocurrency as their primary means

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of moving and storing their incomes.
That's one The collectibles have always been there.

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We've had baseball cards, We've had
stamps, we've had coins, all

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kinds of collectibles. We are moving
them to the digital realm now and making

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them much more accessible to people at
scale, where you can create them easily,

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where you can get their value easily, you can know their authenticity easily.

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So if baseball cards have been around
for a while and people like those

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and they have a hobby, and
we've made them digital and more secure,

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why is that a bad thing?
So one area that I'm just going to

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derail us again, Yes, that's
my thing. So is rerailist check at

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forget rerail Us. Well, I
mean it's definitely interesting. Kind of the

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use cases that we're talking through here. One thing that I'm a little curious

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about is, Okay, so we're
talking about the use case in the sense

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of, you know, I own
an asset and I want to use the

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asset. I guess my other question, you know, as we kind of

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dive into this a little bit,
is as a developer, right, how

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does this affect me when I'm starting
to look at some of these applications and

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say, okay, maybe yeah,
decentralized banking or decentralized assets of some kind.

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Right, maybe it's decentralized. Note
you have some way of notarizing ownership

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of something, right, that's in
the physical world. So what does that

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begin to look like for me as
a developer building an app where that's something

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that you know, I'm working on? Great, great question. I think

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I'd like to answer that by first
kind of describing the lay of the land

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for what code looks like in the
world of blockchains, because I'm not sure

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that everyone in the red two world
yet we might understand that. So when

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let me say smart contracts, let's
just be clear then neither smart nor contracts.

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They're just basically applications. They just
have the term smart contracts that has

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stuck with it. So many blockchains
have the ability to run code. They

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do it via a virtual machine.
The most popular of them is Ethereum,

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and it has the Etherium virtual Machine, So as a name suggests, it

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is literally a virtual machine, and
it has a programming language called Solidity,

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and it's got a couple others also, And what these evms do is essentially

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take code that has been created and
deployed on the blockchain. It executes that

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code, and the result of it
might change the state of the block change

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and that blockchain rather and that's data, so a couple of things. The

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code that you run the application is
immutable, so once you've deployed it to

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the blockchain, it can never be
changed. That's where the contract thing comes

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from. It's a contract in code
because in typical programs today, you find

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a bug, you fix the bug, you push out a new release.

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It goes through your CICD. Boom, you've got the fix out, their

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new version problem solved. With blockchain
applications, you have to be much more

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deliberate because any code you put there
is immutable, it's there forever. So

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that code, when it executes,
it manipulates data. That data is in

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that same application. So we are
used to the concept of application logic and

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data being sort of separate. You
know, your data is typically in a

357
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database and your application logic is running
maybe on your API server or something like

358
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that. In a smart contract,
both the code and the data, the

359
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code maniplates that data. It's all
together. So that's what we are talking

360
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about when it comes two contracts.
So how does that actually work. Well,

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there are functions, just like you
would have in JavaScript or c sharp

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or whatever. There are functions and
external entity, meaning a person or a

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program can call using RPC the remote
procedure call into the blockchain node and it

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can be any blockchain notes. So
let's say that there's a Ethereum blockchain.

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It has five hundred notes. You
can pick any notes you want, and

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you can access the contract address where
it resides and call that particular function with

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whatever parameters. And if that contract
function executes successfully, and maybe it has

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a value of exit quod zero and
you want it x to be incremated by

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one, then x will now change
to one. Now here's the thing about

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blockchain programs and smart contracts. The
data in them is always free to read.

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You can read it as much as
you want infinitely. But whenever you

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want to change state on the blockchain, regardless of what you're doing, it

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doesn't matter if it's with your program
or you're just moving funds between two accounts.

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Anytime you change the state of the
blockchain, you have to pay for

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that, and that is commonly called
a gas. Now in our world,

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wh we live in the current world, we have two that cost is absorbed

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by someone else. When you use
Gmail, you never think about paying for

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it. Why because Google's paying for
it. They make their money elsewhere.

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Here in the decentralized world, the
nodes are all run by independent operators and

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so there you have to pay for
that computing resource. And that's what gas

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boils down to. Now gas is
a big issue and it is like,

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oh god, everything is very expensive. Yes, it is because the blockchain

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technology is going through an evolution.
The first sort of way, which Bitcoin

384
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.960
actually was the first one, use
a technology called proof of work, where

385
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a computer the people who were essentially
adding the blocks to the blockchain. It's

386
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:48.839
done for a process of mining simplicity, simplistically that required them to solve complex

387
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.880
mathematical problems. That's where the energy
usage came from. But people realize very

388
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.400
quickly that that is not a long
term solution, so we have since moved

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to something called proof of stake,
where people actually stack money to have the

390
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right to do that, which now
the cost of energy is no different than

391
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:08.960
you running your computer for browsing or
watching a video or whatever it is.

392
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It's no different at all. But
because the narrative of proof of work is

393
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:18.839
just much more exciting because it's about
using energy and using depleting the plant's resources

394
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and all that. That's narrative that
the media continues to hang on to,

395
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whereas that is first generation technology on
its way out. So proof of stake

396
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:32.240
is where things are now. That
brings us to the cost of gas.

397
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.839
So because of the way the protocols
work, the early Ethereum protocol, etc.

398
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There was a substantial cost to this
that is changing. If you look

399
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:44.559
at blockchains like I'll just throw out
a few as an example, like Solana,

400
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.359
Avalanche, Polygon, et cetera.
The cost of these transactions is minuscule,

401
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:53.559
like one thousandth of a penny at
times for a transaction. So even

402
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:59.240
that is evolving very rapidly to the
point where the cost of gas will start

403
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:04.720
getting low very quickly, and then
then the technology can start really being adopted

404
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:08.359
by mainstream. So I hope,
I hope I answered some of your questions

405
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:12.400
there about applications. I think you
did. I'm trying to envision like as

406
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:15.680
far as like costs and stuff,
right, so you know, we yeah,

407
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.400
hopefully we start seeing it get to
the point where people are going,

408
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.279
Wow, this is a really viable
way for me to get my computing done.

409
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.839
And it's a really simple way of
sharing the data. I'm imagining that

410
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:32.279
because yeah, some of these we're
talking about like NFTs or keeping track of

411
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:34.759
you know, smart contracts where you
know, it's like I'm transferring ownership of

412
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:37.839
this to that or doing things like
that. I'm imagining also, you know,

413
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.480
things like you know, maybe social
networks or things like that, right

414
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:47.839
where again, you know, the
your past chain of posts is immutable,

415
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:51.720
or you know, maybe there is
some kind of deletion or encryption or something

416
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.559
like that. I guess I don't
know how realistic that is, but we'll

417
00:30:53.599 --> 00:31:00.200
set that aside. So so I
build this web three application where essentially when

418
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.359
I post, you know it,
does that work on the other end,

419
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.839
and then yeah, I can just
go read it off of the blockchain and

420
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.359
post it to my site. So
it's all decentralized. The issue that I'm

421
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:18.400
curious about is we've seen other things
social media like Twitter and Facebook. I

422
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.240
remember during like Arab Spring and stuff, people were saying, well, anybody

423
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.440
could post to it, and so
it helped all these movements and things like

424
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:27.799
that, and again not passing any
value judgments. I know there are political

425
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:33.559
concerns there, right, but eventually
it became much more centralized, right,

426
00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:36.519
and so now we have claims of
censorship and things like that. Again I'm

427
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:40.599
not getting political on this, but
within Twitter and Facebook, right, they're

428
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.799
taking down posts they you know,
about things they don't agree with, and

429
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.599
they're closing accounts for violating their terms, which some people agree with and some

430
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:53.440
people don't. And so I imagine
that this blockchain kind of solves some of

431
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.680
those issues. But if I own
the blockchain, or I'm the one that

432
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:02.319
is writing those contracts, would it
just become another centralized place where I'm just

433
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:07.759
storing it in a fancy way.
Yeah, if no one checks that smart

434
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:10.880
contract code and sees that you've done
that. One of the beauties of public

435
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:15.960
blockchains and smart contracts is all the
code is available for everyone to look at.

436
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:20.400
And so if you see code that
has those characteristics, you would say

437
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:22.240
like, well, this is ridiculous. I was I'm using it. So

438
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.680
this is related, maybe just tangentially, maybe not as much as think.

439
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.839
But what about though I don't remember
what social networks they were, but basically

440
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:36.480
there were some decentralized social networks,
and they just started, I guess,

441
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:43.119
looking at root nodes and figuring out
which clients were coming from a particular sub

442
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:49.319
network and then blocking people and then
blocking anyone that didn't have those networks in

443
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:52.759
their block list. I want to
say it started with a g I don't

444
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:58.680
remember what it was, but there
was that happened last year a quote unquote

445
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.759
decentralized network started sensoring people too.
Yeah, I don't know if you're talking.

446
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:06.759
I know mast it on you confederate
between social networks, and I don't

447
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.039
know if you can disallow people from
other networks. But they basically just kind

448
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:15.720
of made a pact of because the
way they're interesting the decent and correct me

449
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:17.759
if I'm wrong in it here.
But the way that the blockchain's work is

450
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:22.279
on a concept of a distributed hash
table, and a distributed hash table is

451
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:28.119
a fancy way of saying you ship
the authority with the code. So when

452
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.160
you download the code, the code
has the distributed hash table root nodes in

453
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:35.720
it, and then you contact those
root nodes and then it gives you other

454
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:39.519
nodes, and each node could create
a blacklist and just say hey, we're

455
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:45.200
not going to interest these nodes,
so people don't everything has a source of

456
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:49.759
truth. There is no such thing
as truly decentralized because you have to reach

457
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:54.640
out somewhere to start the conversation,
and it has to be a known entity.

458
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:59.359
And so I'm not clear on the
technical details of this, but what

459
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:02.960
I think was some of the root
nodes and the secondary nodes just kind of

460
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.639
made a pact together that they were
going to share a blacklist of nodes that

461
00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:15.639
participated in networks that a certain client
used. And then they started telling other

462
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:20.960
people, if you don't adopt our
blacklist for your nodes in your your hash

463
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:24.360
table, then we're going to put
you on our blacklist. And so they

464
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:31.039
started they started central It wasn't really
centralization, it was it was group consensus.

465
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:36.639
It was majority vote, which is
what a blockchain is essentially. But

466
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:40.239
they were able to get so what
your Yeah, So one of the core

467
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:46.159
premises of the security of decentralized networks
is to protect against something that we call

468
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.920
the fifty one percent attack, where
you cannot have sort of a majority of

469
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:58.000
the nodes just make a decision and
then essentially cause havoc. So the protocol,

470
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.320
I'm not a protocol engineer, and
I don't know enough about the you

471
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:05.760
know, workings of protocols, but
that those are the kinds of things that

472
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:10.320
larger scale, more popular blockchains like
Ethereum, Solona, et cetera, have

473
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:15.679
addressed really well. So if there
is some if someone has created a protocol,

474
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:20.320
you know what we call an l
one chain, and it's a standalone

475
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.719
entity whose purpose is to run a
social network, et cetera. And if

476
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:30.639
they have not engineered that protocol well
to handle the security and make it susceptable

477
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:35.239
to fifty percent attacks. And I
can certainly see the scenario you describe manifest

478
00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:38.559
itself. But in general, the
on the larger public chains, this is

479
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:44.039
something that is like bread and butter. You have to have protected against it.

480
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:50.119
You do have the potential for forks
to happen. That's when you know

481
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:54.679
a majority of sort of the the
nodes start veering off on a different using

482
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:59.920
a different blockchain. So but that
that has not happened and is not for

483
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:04.199
seeable to happen for a while on
the public larger public chains, but you're

484
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:07.840
going to have smaller chains with fewer
nodes where for all practical purposes they are

485
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:12.440
no more different than a server farm, you know, in a web two

486
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.599
world. So in that case,
yeah, I mean people can do those

487
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.800
kinds of things you're talking about,
but I don't want to take that have

488
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.880
those things take the line right away. You know from the fact that a

489
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:29.239
vast majority of the public protocols have
been designed to be secure against those fifty

490
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:32.239
one percent type attacks. Cool.
So I guess one thing that I'm wondering

491
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:36.280
about is this is a JavaScript show. Right, You're writing this stuff in

492
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:39.400
solidity. I'm assuming the NPC calls
have you know, it's JavaScript or whatever,

493
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:43.679
right, you just HDP call or
something. I mean, why would

494
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:45.800
I want to get into this?
Right? Because most of the web just

495
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:51.639
it just functions kind of the way
that it always has. So why would

496
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:53.079
I want this? And then the
other question I'm asking a minute is how

497
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:59.159
great question? And so you know, in the world of web development,

498
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.960
you have front end developers, you
have back end developers, and you have

499
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:07.440
full stack kind of developers. This
is no different than that. If you

500
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:12.000
are going to write smart contracts.
Can the analogy is you're a back end

501
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.719
developer. You're working with APIs,
databases, stuff like that. You're working

502
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:20.960
in the world of blockchain. Let's
say it's Ethereum, you're working with Solidity.

503
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:22.920
If it's a flow blockchain, you're
working with Cadence. If it's Solana,

504
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:29.400
you're working with Rust. This is
a developer with specialized skills and experience

505
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:35.039
of understanding the new programming paradigm of
smart contracts. I'll give you a simple

506
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:38.400
example. When we program in C
Sharp, Java, JavaScript, whatever,

507
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:43.880
we are rarely thinking of the cost
per line of execution of our code twenty

508
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.400
lines fifty lines. Don't think too
much about it. In smart contract every

509
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:53.239
execution, every operation there costs money. So you write really type code and

510
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:57.360
you use a concept called fail fast. You want to make sure you check

511
00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:00.320
all your inputs and all that not
at the point where you're going to use

512
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.559
them in your code. You check
them all up front so you can fail

513
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:07.719
immediately, so that there's no So
all of that in a nutshell is highly

514
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:09.920
specialized. So if you are going
to go down that path, it's because

515
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:15.719
you're choosing to. There is no
requirement that everyone who builds decentralized apps be

516
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:22.440
a smart contract developer. In fact, seventy to eighty percent of developers for

517
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:28.679
decentralized apps already have all the skills
they need JavaScript, HTML, CSS,

518
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:32.880
know how to use NPM install,
and the library associated with the particular blockchain.

519
00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:37.079
So, for example, with Ethereum, the libraries are Web THREEJS or

520
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.119
ethersgs, take your pick either one
of those. In fact, there's even

521
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:44.880
a framework called hard hack you work
with all JavaScript, nothing to do with

522
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:50.000
smart contracts or anything like that.
You literally are writing JavaScript functions. That's

523
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:54.480
it. So for JavaScript developers,
Web three represents a green field of opportunity,

524
00:38:54.679 --> 00:39:00.000
like really amazing applications you can build. There's a lot of opportunity,

525
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:02.199
and there's a lot, a lot
of money honestly from a career standpoint,

526
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.360
to be made with just taking your
skills and learning one of these libraries.

527
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:12.400
Not learning a new language at all, but learning how decentralized apps function.

528
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:16.079
That is, for a competent JavaScript
developer, about an hour's worth of work.

529
00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:20.840
Okay, so it sounds like,
yeah, I probably have most of

530
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:24.320
the skills that I'm gonna want or
need in order to pick this up right,

531
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:27.760
so I can pick it up rather
quickly. I guess. The other

532
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:30.280
question I have is is, I
mean, most people, if they're looking

533
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.440
for jobs, they're looking for jobs
based on some kind of demand curve,

534
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:37.880
and you're talking like there's a lot
of demand out there for this kind of

535
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.519
work. How do I figure that
out? And how do I find those

536
00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:46.000
jobs? Yeah? I mean a
large number of those jobs right now are

537
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:52.960
in two domains, creating decentralized finance
applications and creating NFT based applications. Those

538
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:58.159
are super super high in demand.
And if you just google you know,

539
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:04.400
crypto and and developer, I think
you should be able to find it on

540
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:08.320
the usual sites, you know,
usual job sites, they are available.

541
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:15.760
The thing, though, is with
decentralized technologies and Web three in particular.

542
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.880
I talked earlier about how it's not
just about the technology, it's about culture.

543
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:23.960
So I think when you talk about
jobs, this might be an opportunity

544
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:31.719
moment to talk about doos decentralized autonomous
organizations more than likely as time passes,

545
00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:35.760
Like let's say, you know we
are in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty

546
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.880
four, most people who are just
entering into the Web three space are going

547
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:43.079
to work not for a company,
but are going to work for a DOW.

548
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:46.920
So a DOO is really think of
a company, but with its governance

549
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:52.719
model et cetera, built on a
smart contract, so instead of having a

550
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:58.599
board of directors, etc. It
is more governance is handled by the members

551
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:02.320
of the DOW. Closer analogy would
be something like a collective or an hoa

552
00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:07.079
or something like that, where it's
about the people who are part of a

553
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:14.159
community. By virtue of having owning
tokens in that community, they have votes

554
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.800
in what that community does. So
you could, as a member of the

555
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:22.119
community propose an action or a change
in how the community works, the other

556
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:27.679
members vote on it, and then
it becomes how the community functions. So

557
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:31.360
more and more taos are where people
go to do work. So if you're

558
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.639
a designer, you might go work
for Dow and do your design work.

559
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:39.719
If you're a programmer you might do
that. So there are special purpose doos

560
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:45.239
being created for content creators. There's
now one of the largest taos is developer

561
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:51.000
Dow, which is growing very very
fast, and in fact, at the

562
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:53.639
end of February they will have their
first conference and a large number of those

563
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:59.159
developers are JavaScript developers. So that's
where I think a lot of the career

564
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:01.119
growth is going to come. It's
not going to come through centralized companies.

565
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:07.519
Making blockchain applications. Okay, so
color me confused and skeptical at the same

566
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:09.679
time. I'm confused. So if
I'm a developer and I'm working for this

567
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:14.719
dow, how is my day to
day different than than working for a company.

568
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:20.000
I work for a dow, by
the way, so you might a

569
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:24.840
question. Then, So I do
work for Dash Dash Incubator, which is

570
00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:29.800
a DOW. I recently learned this
because to me, it's, uh,

571
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:32.920
you know, kind of money and
hours out kind of thing. I will

572
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.440
take you recently learned that you're working
for a dow or you recently learned about

573
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:43.559
I recently learned that it is.
It is called a doway because so the

574
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:45.719
way that it works is there are
proposals, at least in Dash. I

575
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:51.159
imagine that different dows can have different
ways of organizing things, but there are

576
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:55.920
proposals, and there are stakeholders and
stakeholders. Essentially, it's not it's not

577
00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:00.159
all ethereum smart contracts. There's other
stuff as well. Dash has its own

578
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:06.079
way of doing its quote unquote smart
contract slash voting system. But basically,

579
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:10.599
proposals go up, they get assigned
a manager. The manager assigns a bounty

580
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:16.480
for specific tasks within the proposal,
Then developers request to take on the task.

581
00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:21.559
Then when the task gets completed,
the manager signs off on it,

582
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:30.800
and then the bounty is claimed and
issued from the voter node pool. I'm

583
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:32.840
not sure if I'm explaining it right. Ryan will probably kill me once he

584
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:40.159
listens to the episodes, but my
experience with it is Ryan and I have

585
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:45.159
a conversation. He makes sure that
a task gets put up on a list

586
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:47.360
with a bounty associated with it,
and then he makes sure that I get

587
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:51.920
paid to my Dash address, and
then I can cash out and US dollars

588
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:57.960
or eat it out back steakhouse because
they now have a MasterCard and a gift

589
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:00.960
card system called Dash Direct and all
this stuff. So it actually and Dash

590
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:04.679
is a little bit different from the
other ones because Dash is digital cash.

591
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:07.880
If you go on their website,
there's no mention of blockchain or cryptocurrency.

592
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:12.679
They're very much marketed towards here's a
technology that happens to exist. We're trying

593
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:15.679
to figure out how to make it
easier for people to do digital money.

594
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:21.960
It's not necessarily the blockchain religion.
It's just somebody created blockchain stuff. They're

595
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:23.800
trying to take advantage of it,
and a lot of the work is related

596
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:29.400
to that end. So the things
that I've been working on are management tools

597
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:34.880
and also merchant tools so that it's
easier for merchants to transact digital money.

598
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.400
So it is somewhat self serving in
the sense of some people have given the

599
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:43.119
criticism of a company script because you're
working for the company that's job is to

600
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.679
produce the ability to transact this money, and you're given this money as payment

601
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:52.719
for the work that you do.
So there's this list of work that has

602
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:54.000
to be done, and you say, hey, I want to do this

603
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:59.719
project, and there's a predetermined amount
that you get paid for completing such a

604
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:04.119
task us and then you get paid
for it in digital money or monopoly money

605
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.880
or however you determined to get paid. Is that right, Well, it's

606
00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:08.840
certainly not monopoly money. It is
real. I know, I'm just thrown

607
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:14.280
yeah, I know, I'm just
that is one, one, one model,

608
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:16.800
and you actually described it very accurately. I mean, there's bounties.

609
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:21.280
You can think of it like the
gig economy, right like you can take

610
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:24.199
that on. But then there are
dows where which are a little more mature,

611
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:35.000
which have gone beyond gloves thrown down. Sorry, just saying that there

612
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.320
are dows that are a little more
mature. Technically, DASH is the very

613
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:42.320
first DOW, so it would actually
be the most but anyway, going on,

614
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:45.400
I guess, yeah, yeah,
yeah, Well maybe it's not about

615
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:50.639
the majority of the DOW but the
majority of his model where they recognize that

616
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:54.840
for certain complex tasks, you can't
have ad hoc developers do stuff. It

617
00:45:54.960 --> 00:46:00.119
requires continuity, it requires experience,
et cetera, in which you might have

618
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:06.480
a working group or a guild.
There are different names where you might have

619
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:10.039
a full time role and you draw
a full time salary, and that might

620
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:15.960
be typically in either USDC, which
is a stable coin theyqualent of one US

621
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:19.840
dollar for each USDC, or it
might be in tokens, or it might

622
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:23.159
be ethereum, depending on what that
the model of that particular DOO is.

623
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:30.519
But ultimately it comes down to the
fact that you are not contractually bound to

624
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:35.360
only work for one DOW. You
can be working concurrently with as many dows

625
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:38.079
as you want, at your own
pace, at your own schedule, at

626
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:43.559
your own location, however you want. So how's that different than standard freelancing?

627
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:50.679
The difference is that standard freelancing requires
you to be more upfront about sort

628
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:54.559
of marketing. You need to go
and sell yourself and promote yourself and find

629
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:59.599
your next gig, et cetera.
Here, with doos, the gigs are

630
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:04.920
are available, easier to find,
and you don't have to limit yourself to

631
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.079
one particular doubt. You can choose
the skills you want to apply and work

632
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:12.840
on them. So yeah, in
a sense, it's similar without the need

633
00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:16.119
to constantly have to market yourself.
Also, so how is this tied back

634
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:19.760
to Web three? Then, I
guess is where I'm confusing. I mean,

635
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.639
it's to me, I mean,
what you're explaining sounds like a business

636
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:27.719
model. Sure, it's maybe slightly
different from freelancing or standard companies, just

637
00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:30.920
another variation. But I'm curious.
I'm trying to understand how this ties back

638
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:35.000
to web three and blockchain and all
the other stuff we've been talking. I

639
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:39.960
think that's a fantastic question. So
the doos have emerged and in order to

640
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:45.960
address the fact that we live in
a world where in companies a very few

641
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:52.079
people make all the decisions and a
very few people benefit from the productivity of

642
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:57.679
a very large number of people.
In that organization, your average person does

643
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:00.440
not get the same benefit as say
the CEO or the board of directors,

644
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:05.840
etc. Whereas they are doing all
the work. Taos are about democratizing the

645
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:10.320
workforce and making it so that there
is shared rewards for shared labor. And

646
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:15.480
it's also based upon a set of
rules and governance where you, as a

647
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:20.840
person working in an entity, have
a say in what that entity does more

648
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.840
than you would. You would say
that the parallel is stock ownership, but

649
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:28.760
stock owners in a public corporation,
for example, have very little say.

650
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:31.440
You can show up at a meeting
or whatever, but as individuals your vote

651
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:36.880
doesn't matter too much. But in
DAOs, your individual votes matter. You

652
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:42.239
can also delegate them to people who
you trust, so it's way more flexible.

653
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:46.159
And it's also governed through smart contracts, so it's all open and transparent.

654
00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:50.639
There are you can do shenanigans.
Well, okay, but there's still

655
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.719
there's sorry, check one more thing. There's still you got to have a

656
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:57.119
manager, right, you're talking to
a manager. You've got if somebody puts

657
00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:00.880
the work together and decides what's the
work to be done and what's the value

658
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:04.519
for this and so on? Right, and I would think it's somewhere you

659
00:49:04.599 --> 00:49:07.400
got to have at some point,
you got to have an ultimate point of

660
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:10.760
decision making, just because based on
personal experience and what I've watched, whether

661
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:15.079
you want to go back to the
infamous Occupy Wall Street or any of those

662
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:17.280
type of organizations where everybody tries to
go back and census that didn't work.

663
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:21.760
You need a final authority in some
cases. So I'm curious to see where

664
00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:25.280
that fits in these downs. Yeah, within dows, you can have working

665
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:30.159
groups, you can have gills,
etc. Those can have leaders, you

666
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:34.039
can have a war group of leaders. The key thing to understand, you're

667
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.679
Steve, is that it's open and
transparent, so everybody is aware of what's

668
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:45.360
going on and there isn't some of
the closed room decision making, the favoritism,

669
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:50.119
the nepotism, all of that.
It's much much much harder to do

670
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:55.280
because it's transparent and open. That's
the difference. And ultimately this is designed

671
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:59.840
for a generation of people that are
coming out of college, et cetera,

672
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:04.760
that are really disgruntled with how life
in general has been to them. It's

673
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:08.719
really hard for them to find their
career prospects are not super bright. They

674
00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:15.679
want to work, but we value
experience more than maybe excitement and passion and

675
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:20.320
the ability to want to dive into
something and just learn. Those kind of

676
00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:24.320
things are not valued in companies today. It's harder to get a break,

677
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:29.199
and doaos give, especially young people, I think, the opportunity to start

678
00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:35.679
exploring and experimenting with different things while
finding their niche and finding their passion and

679
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:39.599
building experience. So doos won't replace
everything, not anytime soon, but they

680
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:45.320
are an ongoing experiment. They are
a new experiment in this laboratory of sort

681
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:49.880
of business. You know, it's
a new way to conduct business, and

682
00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:54.039
I feel like, especially for information
centric businesses, dows are a great way

683
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:57.920
to go. The jury is completely
out on what will happen with dows if

684
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:01.280
you, for example, change choose
a more model where the company is manufacturing

685
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:05.159
or something like that. But you
have to look at it as an experiment.

686
00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:07.199
It's a work in progress. Yeah. I think what I'm hearing is

687
00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:13.079
that the tao itself, like Aja
explained how the DOAW that he's working for

688
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:16.159
works. But they, I mean, they can adopt whatever governance model they

689
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:22.320
want. And then the what I'm
understanding is is that any changes to the

690
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:28.239
government governance model may then necessitate a
change to the smart contracts that they use

691
00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:31.000
to govern the DOO. Right,
and so then when I vote, or

692
00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:35.800
you vote, or whoever votes,
you know, that's all governed by smart

693
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:38.000
contract at that point. Right,
So we change the structure by changing the

694
00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:42.880
contract which we all voted on using
the smart contracts in the first place.

695
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:46.079
And then all of this is saved
to the ledger and it's all transparent.

696
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:50.559
And at the same time, if
I buy into the DOO, so if

697
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:53.400
I buy somebody else's token, right, and so I can vote, or

698
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:58.440
I buy enough of the tokens so
that I can vote so many times.

699
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:01.079
However, it's structured. Right again, maybe I buy six tokens, but

700
00:52:01.159 --> 00:52:05.840
it still only affords me one vote. That's all just built into how it

701
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:09.360
runs. Then it's all open and
transparent. I can see what's happening.

702
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:13.920
I can see how the decisions are
being made. All of the voting and

703
00:52:13.960 --> 00:52:17.480
everything else happens in an open way
where everybody can see what's going on,

704
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:23.079
and it's all audited publicly. I
can see where some companies may want to

705
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:29.360
make private decisions, like if they
want to buy and negotiate on real estate

706
00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:30.480
or something like that. You know, if the down needs to buy an

707
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:34.519
office. You know, I can
see those kinds of things being something that

708
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:37.719
they have to figure out and negotiate
within their structure. But the rest of

709
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:40.239
it, Yeah, it seems that
at the end of the day, the

710
00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:44.920
rest of that stuff all just gets
handled on the DOW and then maybe,

711
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.519
yeah, if there is some kind
of privileged information that needs to be managed,

712
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:52.440
you know, you put some kind
of smart contract on that where it's

713
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:57.000
encrypted maybe for a certain amount of
time or things like that until yeah,

714
00:52:57.159 --> 00:53:00.920
it becomes open or however you manage
that. But it's all you can see

715
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:05.000
how it all runs because it's it's
all managed in that decentralized manner, and

716
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:08.000
then you set up the smart contracts
to facilitate the actual business. Yep.

717
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:12.800
That's a beautiful and very accurate summation. Yeah, and I could definitely,

718
00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:15.960
I mean, I could come up
with things that I think are probably drawbacks

719
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:17.679
to it. I can also see
that there are certain advantages to it,

720
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:22.519
right where everybody kind of knows what's
going on and how and why, and

721
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:27.199
maybe you issue more so you have
a certain level of tokens that are there,

722
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.159
and then maybe you have a cryptocurrency
that's also on the same blockchain that

723
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:34.280
that's how people get paid, or
I mean there are lots of It seems

724
00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:37.960
like it opens up a lot of
possibilities, which, yeah, I'll tell

725
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:40.679
you. One of the drawbacks,
which doos are working to fix right now,

726
00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:45.280
is this idea that you know you
have whales, meaning you know wealthy

727
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:50.719
people who own a lot of the
tokens, Well, they'll have a proportionately

728
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:53.159
large amount of the vote and they
can influence where things go. We don't

729
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:59.719
want that. That's undesirable. So
doos are responding with having business models where

730
00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:04.320
there's for example, quadratic voting.
Each subsequent vote based on your tokens requires

731
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:07.760
more and more tokens, so you
get to the point where all your millions

732
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:13.239
of tokens, etc. Will still
not be a sizeable amount of vote.

733
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:15.920
Another thing they're experimenting with is domain
based voting. So, for example,

734
00:54:16.199 --> 00:54:21.280
if the vote is about marketing and
you are a marketer, then your vote

735
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:23.960
carries more weight than someone who's not
a marketer. That kind of stuff,

736
00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:29.360
et cetera. So there's lots of
these exciting experiments being being run and it's

737
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:32.039
not perfect, it's not even good
yet, but I can tell you it's

738
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:37.199
very, very exciting because we get
to it's like almost seeing a human experiment

739
00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:42.880
at scale in business models in real
time. You're participant in it, you

740
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:45.559
know, it's so much fun.
It's kind of like being there in the

741
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:49.679
early days when maybe the stock exchanges
were being formed and things like that.

742
00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:52.639
What are the decisions being made?
How did they come up with, you

743
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:54.599
know, a C corp versus an
escorp or whatever, all those kind of

744
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:59.239
things. Is it's just so exciting
to be part of this moment and to

745
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:01.679
participate and know that, well,
some of these ideas are going to just

746
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:06.280
bomb terribly, they've got to fail, but some of them are going to

747
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:09.039
be just awesome. And that's what
excites me. Well, and tying this

748
00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:13.280
back to web three because we kind
of went on dows and NFTs and all

749
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:17.400
this stuff, right, it's all
right, yeah, web is anything that

750
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:23.000
is related to a blockchain or a
cryptocurrency. Yeah. For me, if

751
00:55:23.079 --> 00:55:27.559
I'm going back to just building apps
right kind of the thing that we do

752
00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:31.679
on the web right now, that's
that's where this gets kind of interesting because

753
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:37.840
I think there are going to be
some applications that eventually blockchain is the way

754
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:43.840
or Web three is the way that
they materialize just won't make sense once we

755
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:46.239
figure some of this stuff out to
do it any other way. And so

756
00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:50.719
if you're getting into it now,
if you're interested in it now, it

757
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:53.599
seems like a terrific direction to go
in, just keep in mind that,

758
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:57.239
yeah, it's still early, so
some of it. Yeah, we're still

759
00:55:57.280 --> 00:56:00.199
wading through some of the garbage that
we're going to have to wade through on

760
00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:05.519
this stuff. But I think understanding
it early is also going to be beneficial

761
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:08.000
to a lot of people. Yep. And that's what I'm working on with

762
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:12.880
my company in Distology, we are
building the hyperverse for Web two developers,

763
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:17.039
and our basic thesis is that most
Web two developers don't want to learn smart

764
00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:22.079
contract programming, and you want to
make it as easy as NPM for them.

765
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.840
So with the hyperverse, what we
are doing is we are essentially having

766
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:30.719
smart contract developers build these blockchain primitives, if you want to call it them.

767
00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:35.920
We call them smart modules. So
instead of having like monolithics smart contracts

768
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.599
that do a lot of things,
we'll have smart contracts that do one thing,

769
00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:44.360
really well. And what web developers
can do is using our React based

770
00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:49.800
front end JavaScript libraries, just wire
up all these different smart modules kind of

771
00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:53.679
like lego blocks and orchestrate your decentralized
app. And not only that, you

772
00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:57.880
can make hybrid apps. You can
have a combination of Web two and Web

773
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:00.480
three apps. So maybe only one
aspect of your app needs to be Web

774
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:04.159
three. Great, you know,
build a Web two app and just add

775
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:07.599
this Web three. So we are
in the process. We are blockchain agnostics.

776
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:10.360
So we're going to work across all
major blockchains eventually, and with the

777
00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:15.280
Hyperverse, it'll be like NPM installed, just like that, it'll be Hyperverse

778
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:20.159
installed. Pick the module you want
like NFT, add that you've got,

779
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:23.159
and then imported in your React app
and you're good to go. So how

780
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:31.639
could you possibly be blockchain agnostic because
they're highly, highly specific algorithmic protocols,

781
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:37.039
So it seems like you either have
to build for each of them individually or

782
00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:39.840
you're not really building something on a
blockchain. Yep, you're one hundred percent

783
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:44.639
right on both counts. So when
I say blockchain agnostic, what I mean

784
00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:47.920
is that our specification that we have
created. Think of it like the NPM

785
00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:51.960
spec right, it requires you to
have a package Chason, it requires you

786
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:54.320
to have a certain number of fields
in there with certain values. Just like

787
00:57:54.360 --> 00:58:00.599
that, we require that Hyperverse smart
modules and the libraries, the front libraries

788
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:04.119
conform to this spec that is still
evolving. We are working on it,

789
00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:09.360
but we are then making our hyper
verse tooling available for each blockchain that we

790
00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:15.280
support, and for each of those
developers will have built the custom smart modules

791
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:19.679
that would make sense on that.
One of the things that's emerging right now

792
00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:23.280
is that blockchains are also becoming special
purpose. So there's general purpose blockchains like

793
00:58:23.320 --> 00:58:28.280
Ethereum, but then you're finding we're
finding that there are some blockchains which are

794
00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:30.440
so fast that they're great for gaming, for example, or for DeFi,

795
00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:35.559
et cetera. So you are you're
right. So each blockchain will have its

796
00:58:35.559 --> 00:58:38.119
own unique set of smart modules,
but there's going to have a they're going

797
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.320
to have a common look and feel, and they're going to have a common

798
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:45.840
furn end where you can go and
search and find these modules based on the

799
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:51.719
blockchain you've picked, and the library
for each one is also different. But

800
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:54.719
because the hyperverse sort of interface is
common across them, all of them.

801
00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:59.679
From a programming standpoint, it doesn't
matter which blockchain you're programming for. The

802
00:58:59.719 --> 00:59:02.239
extraperiance is the same. The developer
experience is the same. So okay,

803
00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:07.719
two things. One, how many
different competitors do you have, because it

804
00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:13.239
seems that this is something everybody wants
to do, is to abstract all the

805
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:16.480
blockchains? In which case, how
do you get in a leading position to

806
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:22.360
become the authority on abstracting blockchains so
that people so that you actually have real

807
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:27.440
value rather than just being one of
the millions of minnows. That's one and

808
00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:30.559
two. If you abstract away all
the blockchains, then how do you get

809
00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:34.360
any of the value of what they
specifically offer by their differences? Yep,

810
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:38.320
So we are not abstracting away the
blockchains because what we are doing is making

811
00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:44.960
sure that the hyperverse library for each
one is consistent. But the value proposition

812
00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:50.280
that we are providing is not necessarily
in sort of the JavaScript part of fit.

813
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:52.920
Yes, we provide that, but
anyone else can also come and provide

814
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:58.119
that. That's fine. The value
we are providing is in the actual modules,

815
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:00.960
the smart modules that I refer to
on chain. What we are building

816
01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:07.719
is an open decentralized marketplace for smart
contracts. So what I mean by that

817
01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:13.480
is any developer who knows how to
program smart contracts can build a smart module

818
01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:16.960
and they can monetize it. They
can choose to say that for each transaction,

819
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:22.440
I want a penny, or if
there's a monetary value to the transaction,

820
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:25.840
they can say I want two percent
or whatever. So smart contract developers

821
01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:30.119
can monetize it that way. But
for the JavaScript developers, you don't have

822
01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:35.920
to worry about how that module came
into existence. You just need to decide

823
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:38.599
if you want to use it.
If the price of it is reasonable for

824
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:43.159
you, then you just use it
with the Hyperverse library. Now, if

825
01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:45.599
you don't want to use our libraries
like the JavaScript libraries, and you want

826
01:00:45.639 --> 01:00:47.920
to like, well, I'm just
going to write my own, you can

827
01:00:49.239 --> 01:00:52.239
do that because it's all on chain. So the value we are providing is

828
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.199
not in the abstraction of it.
The value we are providing it is in

829
01:00:55.360 --> 01:01:00.559
having a standard way in which smart
contracts can be created, built, deployed,

830
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.960
monetized, and more importantly secured.
Because one of the things that is

831
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:08.039
a big challenge with any open source
is the code secure. What if it's

832
01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:13.440
malicious. So we are building a
community of auditors that they'll all audit those

833
01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:16.920
smart modules and if they trust that
the code is secured, they will stake

834
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:22.960
their tokens as a form of security
or for those modules that sort of access

835
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:27.079
an insurance layer and allowing anyone consuming
those modules to trust it. If the

836
01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:30.800
module turns out to have a problem, the stake, the money put up

837
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:35.039
by those auditors gets slashed, they
lose it, and that money then gets

838
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.719
distributed to whoever suffer a loss.
So this is an innovative security model that

839
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:43.599
we are also building on doctors.
So one thing that I'm curious about,

840
01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:46.360
because we've talked a whole bunch about
this, it seems kind of forward looking

841
01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:49.639
to me to be thinking, Okay, you know, I'm going to go

842
01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:52.760
learn how to build web three apps
or Web three organizations or whatever. What

843
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:57.599
do you see coming next? That's
exciting if we're being forward thinking, right,

844
01:01:57.679 --> 01:02:00.440
what's the next innovation going to be
or where does it come? I'm

845
01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:07.639
learning I'm seeing every day that gaming
Web three based gaming is huge. If

846
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:13.400
you think about the scenarios today where
in game assets are siloed into a certain

847
01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:17.960
game NFTs are completely transforming that because
you can have the ability to have a

848
01:02:19.079 --> 01:02:22.800
Web three games where you can take
your assets. You know, you want

849
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:24.840
to sort in this game, go
take it over to the other game trading

850
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:30.159
and having games that have a play
to earn model. So during the past

851
01:02:30.280 --> 01:02:35.320
year or so, during COVID,
for example, Acci Infinity was a very

852
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:39.599
popular game in Philippines and it gave
people the ability to make a living because

853
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:45.239
they would essentially play this game generating
in game assets which are valued by other

854
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:49.599
people who didn't want to spend that
much time playing to earn them and just

855
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:52.199
wanted to use them, and they
were willing to pay money to buy them.

856
01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:54.559
This is how a lot of people
in the Philippines survived the pandemic.

857
01:02:54.639 --> 01:03:00.000
You know, this is Web three
at scale solving and bringing to bringing economic

858
01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:05.559
equity. So I think gaming is
going to continue to grow and a play

859
01:03:05.639 --> 01:03:09.880
to X whatever that X is,
whether it's you know, earned or grow,

860
01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:14.639
et cetera, or even X to
earn. You know, different models

861
01:03:14.679 --> 01:03:19.320
like that are being experimented with,
and I'm very very excited about those right

862
01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:22.719
now. You see, for example, Deppa Labs has NBA top Shot where

863
01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:27.079
you can collect NBA moments. Right
now, they're just collectibles. But there

864
01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:31.079
is a mobile game imminent where you
can take your moments and assemble them into

865
01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:36.920
virtual teams and play. So that's
going to be exciting. So we do

866
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:42.400
that right when we do the football
games and stuff like that offline, when

867
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:44.800
we pick our teams, et cetera. But being able to do that with

868
01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:50.079
NFTs that we own on chain,
it's really exciting stuff. So I must

869
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:54.199
say, as the residents skeptic,
this is actually something I believe exactly.

870
01:03:54.480 --> 01:04:00.719
I believe that because gaming is a
self contained universe. And if you're talking

871
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:03.159
about indie gamers, so if you're
talking about a big studio, they're going

872
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:06.079
to you know, Nintendo's gonna want
the E Shop, Xbox is gonna want

873
01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:10.880
Xbox Live, et cetera. Right, I don't see them switching over to

874
01:04:10.960 --> 01:04:15.199
shaable assets anytime soon. But if
you talk about indie gamers, somebody creates

875
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:17.519
a standard unity. Is it called
unity? Is that what's called three D

876
01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:21.960
model? They created NFT for it. You have your character in one game,

877
01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:27.480
you transfer your character over to another
game. From the developer's perspective,

878
01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:30.400
there's a financial incentive in it because
they can put a smart contract into the

879
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:35.719
character, and the character being transferred
can generate them income. They can build

880
01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:40.920
a business model around that, and
then they create a standard protocol to transfer

881
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:45.079
assets between games with I mean,
they still have to come up with a

882
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:49.159
schema for how to define the characteristics
of the avatar or whatever. But I

883
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:55.719
could definitely see this among indie gamers. It's a universe that exists within the

884
01:04:55.840 --> 01:05:00.039
Internet. It doesn't require any outside
interaction, it doesn't require any outside verification,

885
01:05:00.360 --> 01:05:04.800
it doesn't require any outside regulation,
no oracles, none of that stuff,

886
01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:13.760
because everything began and ended in the
Internet space without any real physical contact

887
01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:19.519
beyond it. So I actually believe
that that is a use case that might

888
01:05:19.599 --> 01:05:25.760
not have been solved any other way
because the big game big game studios would

889
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:31.159
have no incentive to let you transfer
trademarkable characters between universes. Congratulations, Nick,

890
01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:36.239
you have earned the ajacal of approval
WITHFLT to earn Yay, I'm so

891
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:40.880
excited. Thank you. Yeah,
but really, you know, I think

892
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:45.800
your analysis was spot on. The
Big game studios they have no incentive to

893
01:05:45.800 --> 01:05:48.480
get rid of the walled gardens,
and yeah, with indies, etc.

894
01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:53.960
This this makes a lot of sense
and actually this NFT standard it's called the

895
01:05:54.079 --> 01:05:57.840
RC seven twenty one and another one
called ARC twenty five. They've been baked

896
01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:00.159
in, they are there for a
while now, and they support all the

897
01:06:00.199 --> 01:06:02.920
standard metadata and all of this kind
of stuff already. So we are actually

898
01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:08.360
working with a few game game platforms
to build just this kind of thing,

899
01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:11.880
and it's really exciting. I'm not
a gamer, but there's a bunch of

900
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:14.639
people on a team or gamers and
they're pretty excited about this thing. So

901
01:06:14.920 --> 01:06:19.880
yeah, I think ultimately what Aja
explained kind of solidified in my head what

902
01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:24.880
this is all about. Right,
Because the big console makers, right,

903
01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:28.679
they're the ones with all the resources, They're the ones that benefit from essentialized

904
01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:30.760
infrastructure, and so they're the ones
that are not going to go for this,

905
01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:35.000
right. And similarly, in a
lot of these other places where I'm

906
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:42.719
providing a process or things like that, where they either need to or I

907
01:06:42.920 --> 01:06:46.079
want them to because I benefit from
it. Need to keep them centralized,

908
01:06:46.159 --> 01:06:48.880
right, I need to keep them
where in my app where they live,

909
01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:53.480
blah blah blah. Right, I'm
not going to go for this, but

910
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:58.960
if I want to benefit from being
part of an ecosystem where I can share,

911
01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:04.159
push, exchange and otherwise keep track
of ownership, location on the web

912
01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:11.920
or whatever. And I can make
a living by allowing people to participate in

913
01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:15.639
my thing and participate in everyone else's
thing. Those are the things that this

914
01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:20.559
opens up, right, And it
seems like that's what we're talking about here,

915
01:07:20.599 --> 01:07:25.719
you know, with the different the
doos even right, it's okay,

916
01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:30.480
Well, do I want to be
part of a centralized control company or do

917
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:32.760
I want to be part of something
that's a little more democratized, like a

918
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:38.039
DOO. Do I want to be
part of a computing ecosystem where I share

919
01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:44.159
resources and other assets among the other
parts of that ecosystem, or do I

920
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:48.880
want people to live in my little
area? Right? And there's nothing necessarily

921
01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:53.719
wrong about either approach, and they're
going to be pros and cons to every

922
01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:57.280
organization and every application depending on how
they do it. Right. Some of

923
01:07:57.280 --> 01:08:00.000
them it's just not going to make
sense, and some of them are really

924
01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:02.840
will And so that's where people are
going to make that decision. Right,

925
01:08:02.920 --> 01:08:06.559
it's I'm going to benefit more from
being part of this open ecosystem than I

926
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:11.679
will by being behind this wall.
And if it's proof of stake, type

927
01:08:11.679 --> 01:08:15.559
stuff. The indie game developers,
it might make sense for them to run

928
01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:20.000
right own blockchain for essentially somewhere between
twenty and one hundred dollars a month to

929
01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:24.720
run their own node, is what
I meant to say, to participate,

930
01:08:24.720 --> 01:08:27.960
because if you want to participate in
a blockchain, you're either going to be

931
01:08:28.039 --> 01:08:31.079
running at home and that's going to
be unreliable if you're trying to provide a

932
01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:34.119
business service, or you're going to
be running it in the cloud. If

933
01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:39.319
you're running in the cloud, your
bare minimum is probably looking around twenty dollars

934
01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:42.159
a month. Yeah, I think
that's where I would disagree. I don't

935
01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:45.079
think there's any need for game developers
to be concerned with the infrastructure. Right

936
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:49.279
other people handle that. That's one
of the beauties of the decentralized web.

937
01:08:49.359 --> 01:08:55.319
Blockchain. It's not decentralized if you
only let if the only people who are

938
01:08:55.359 --> 01:09:00.560
participating are a very small, select
group of people, it's not the centralized.

939
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:03.319
If the game developers want to get
in on this and they don't participate

940
01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:09.199
in it, you have to pay
in at some point. Otherwise there's no

941
01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:13.600
guarantee that the stuff you need will
be there when you need it. You

942
01:09:13.640 --> 01:09:17.680
know, if something goes wrong and
people get out of this specialized n f

943
01:09:17.720 --> 01:09:21.760
T chain, if you've got two
other people that are still running it,

944
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:26.199
it'll still work. But you know, you have to be able to supply

945
01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:29.560
the demands of your users. Anyway, I cut you off, I should

946
01:09:29.760 --> 01:09:31.000
that's rude to me. I'm sorry. I'll like you to speak. Well.

947
01:09:31.119 --> 01:09:34.640
Now I was going to say,
is you should pick a blockchain that

948
01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:38.720
is already secure. And you know, when I say the term secure for

949
01:09:38.760 --> 01:09:42.600
a blockchain, what I mean is
it's got enough notes out there where it's

950
01:09:42.680 --> 01:09:46.399
unlikely to fail, unlikely to be
shut down, it's reasonably decentlized. So

951
01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:50.760
like five hundred notes, a thousand
notes, you pick whatever is a reasonably

952
01:09:51.079 --> 01:09:56.279
good number for you. And some
of the popular blockchains these days are hitting

953
01:09:56.319 --> 01:10:00.279
those thousands of notes. So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, there

954
01:10:00.319 --> 01:10:03.720
is some risk inherent being part of
a smaller chain with fewer nodes, but

955
01:10:04.079 --> 01:10:08.920
at the same time, there's right
but that on the flip side, if

956
01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:12.399
it grows and you're an early adopter, then there are advantages to that as

957
01:10:12.399 --> 01:10:16.720
well. Maybe maybe not. I
mean the advantages would be if you sort

958
01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:23.079
of acquired the native cryptocurrency of that
blockchain at an early stage and your holding

959
01:10:23.119 --> 01:10:28.439
a sizeable amount of it then.
But otherwise, really what you're benefiting from

960
01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:32.319
is the fact that the platform on
which you're building is growing stronger and is

961
01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:36.479
getting more adoption, and that always
helps. Cool. We're kind of at

962
01:10:36.479 --> 01:10:41.319
the end of our time. If
people want to check out hyperversire building,

963
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:44.680
where do they find all that stuff? Yeah, so they can go to

964
01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:49.800
decentology dot com. We are going
to start our preview here in early February

965
01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:55.800
and all through the month of February, we'll be releasing incremental updates, and

966
01:10:55.840 --> 01:10:59.720
we'll be doing a public sort of
launch in March. I come from the

967
01:10:59.760 --> 01:11:02.800
web to world myself. I've been
in the Microsoft ecosystem for a long time.

968
01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:08.960
Created was a co founder of DNN, open Source cms C, Sharp

969
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:13.359
Development, et cetera. So I
also initially looked at this with a healthy

970
01:11:13.359 --> 01:11:16.920
amount of skepticism. And what I
would encourage people to do is to not

971
01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:20.760
just go by what the media says, because most of those things are old

972
01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:26.760
and outdated. Go check out and
download an STK or something now and just

973
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:30.800
tinker with it for a weekend and
see for yourself. What it's like.

974
01:11:30.479 --> 01:11:38.119
Skepticism is warranted and welcome because that
actually helps improve things. But I think

975
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:43.920
skepticism without actually having experienced or pride
it, you might end up being skeptical

976
01:11:43.960 --> 01:11:46.000
for the wrong reasons. Be skeptical, but for the right reasons. You

977
01:11:46.039 --> 01:11:49.800
know. So check out this stuff. So let me clarify. Sorry,

978
01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:54.239
you're saying not to believe the media. Am I understanding correctly? Okay?

979
01:11:55.920 --> 01:12:00.079
Here we go. Are a few
other things. You guys do A regular

980
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:03.560
meetup where you talk about the Web
three stuff? Right? Where do people

981
01:12:03.560 --> 01:12:08.880
get on that? Yeah, so
we have a regular sort of every Thursday

982
01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:12.239
we have I call it a block
Chai and chill where people just bring that

983
01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:15.920
chai or their coffee or whatever and
chill and we talk about Web three topics.

984
01:12:15.960 --> 01:12:19.119
I also do a lot of Twitter
spaces. I'm at at tech Bubble

985
01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:25.159
on Twitter where I generally try and
answer web developers questions, much like what

986
01:12:25.279 --> 01:12:30.199
we have been doing today. But
you can find all that information from recentology

987
01:12:30.239 --> 01:12:32.119
dot com. Right. And then
one last thing I just wanted to bring

988
01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:36.159
up is that I've been wanting to
for a while put out sort of a

989
01:12:36.239 --> 01:12:44.960
regular like second episode segment kind of
thing about JavaScript topics, and so I

990
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:47.199
talked to Nick and some of the
other folks at Decentology because I wanted to

991
01:12:47.199 --> 01:12:50.800
bring in Web three and so we're
going to put out you're going to get

992
01:12:50.840 --> 01:12:55.560
a Web three topic going forward on
that as well. So that's going to

993
01:12:55.640 --> 01:12:58.800
start sometime in February. Keep an
eye out because yeah, Nick and I

994
01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:01.560
will jump on one every month and
just give you something about Web three.

995
01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:04.479
So keep an eye out for that
as well. I am really looking forward

996
01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:08.039
to that. That's going to be
Yeah. I kind of wanted to set

997
01:13:08.079 --> 01:13:12.520
the stage here right because there is
context that will help people understand what we're

998
01:13:12.520 --> 01:13:15.600
talking about there. All right,
well, let's go ahead and jump into

999
01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:17.760
picks a j Do you have some
picks for us? Well? No,

1000
01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:25.359
I didn't know we were doing this
today. No problems jumping up, All

1001
01:13:25.439 --> 01:13:28.079
right, Steve, do you have
some picks for us? Do I have

1002
01:13:28.279 --> 01:13:31.000
picks? I'll just stick with the
jokes of the week, you know,

1003
01:13:31.119 --> 01:13:34.720
Nick, this is always the high
point of the podcast. Chuck just gets

1004
01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:40.520
tons of contact letters to say we
need more Dad jokes so you can hear

1005
01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:44.920
the excitement. Sure, So,
anyway, my favorite things are eating,

1006
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:49.880
my family and not using commas took
me a minute. Sorry, Yeah,

1007
01:13:50.159 --> 01:13:55.479
punctuation matters. Punctuation matters. Yes. So the other day I beat a

1008
01:13:55.479 --> 01:14:00.600
black belt at karate, and my
next challenge is a green sock. And

1009
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:03.560
finally, so I was sitting in
church the other day and there I was

1010
01:14:03.560 --> 01:14:08.239
sitting next to this elderly couple and
I heard the wife stay of her husband.

1011
01:14:08.479 --> 01:14:10.560
She goes, I let out one
of those silent farts. What do

1012
01:14:10.600 --> 01:14:13.239
I do? And he says,
change the battery and your hearing aid.

1013
01:14:17.399 --> 01:14:24.159
Yeah, don't laugh, it only
encourages him. All right, Well,

1014
01:14:24.199 --> 01:14:26.520
I'll jump in with my picks here
real quick. So I always do a

1015
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:31.399
board game pick. My wife's cousins
and her sister and brother in law came

1016
01:14:31.439 --> 01:14:36.479
over to play board games on Saturday, and we had a good time.

1017
01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:41.399
One of the games that we played
that my sister in law brought is called

1018
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:45.520
Wavelength, and it's more of a
party game, which really is not my

1019
01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:50.840
speed at all. I generally it's
like it's like, oh, is this

1020
01:14:50.920 --> 01:14:56.640
more or less what everybody else thinks? It's just whatever. Anyway, this

1021
01:14:56.720 --> 01:15:00.279
one was kind of funny though,
because some of the things we just had

1022
01:15:00.359 --> 01:15:04.760
funny conversations off of them, which
was fun. So I'm gonna pick it

1023
01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:09.479
if that's your speed. You know, it's the well it could because what

1024
01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:12.439
you do is you dial. So
you have a dial and it's a blind

1025
01:15:12.479 --> 01:15:15.399
dial, so you just spin it
and then when you're done, whoever's giving

1026
01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:19.319
the clue opens it up and you
see where the where people will score if

1027
01:15:19.399 --> 01:15:24.640
they guess it right. And then
you close it back up and you have

1028
01:15:24.680 --> 01:15:28.119
a clue card. And so one
of the clue cards was like vapes doesn't

1029
01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:30.760
vape, right, and so give
a clue. You know, it's like

1030
01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:34.760
thirty year old men, right,
because I was I was aiming for a

1031
01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:39.439
little bit more toward vapes, but
you know, not all the way there

1032
01:15:39.560 --> 01:15:43.239
right where you might pick a different
demographic or pick a person that you know

1033
01:15:43.479 --> 01:15:47.920
vapes and everybody else know vapes,
right, And so anyway, the conversation

1034
01:15:48.119 --> 01:15:54.359
quickly turned to my wife's sat and
uncle I guess both vape and so then

1035
01:15:54.399 --> 01:15:59.479
it turned into jokes about them vaping
and whether or not people were embarrassed about

1036
01:15:59.479 --> 01:16:02.319
talking about whether they vape. It
was really funny and so you know,

1037
01:16:02.359 --> 01:16:05.880
it's that kind of a thing,
and that's really what For me, I

1038
01:16:06.039 --> 01:16:11.319
like the mental stimulation and the challenges
that come with board games, but I

1039
01:16:11.359 --> 01:16:14.079
also like the social aspect of it. And so if you're looking for the

1040
01:16:14.119 --> 01:16:18.119
social aspect, I check that game
out. It's called Wavelengths Wavelength or Wavelengths.

1041
01:16:18.159 --> 01:16:20.600
I'll put on link in the show
notes, but you should be able

1042
01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:24.600
to find it. It's got a
very colorful box. So could you say

1043
01:16:24.640 --> 01:16:31.000
that turned into a very vapid conversation? Oh man. Anyway, a few

1044
01:16:31.039 --> 01:16:34.800
other things I'm going to put out
there. I am currently hiring some folks

1045
01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:39.840
to help us run some meetups on
JavaScript and Ruby and Angular at least because

1046
01:16:39.840 --> 01:16:43.960
those are our biggest shows right now. And then I'm also getting ready to

1047
01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:47.560
put JavaScript Remote Conference another JavaScript Remote
conference together, probably in May. So

1048
01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:50.439
if you want to speak at it, or if you want to participate in

1049
01:16:50.479 --> 01:16:55.039
it, I'm probably I'm thinking about
doing more than one track, and so

1050
01:16:55.119 --> 01:16:58.239
I may also need somebody to m
see one of the tracks. Anyway,

1051
01:16:58.319 --> 01:17:01.600
just keep an eye out for it. Usually get some pretty solid heavy hitters

1052
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:04.920
for that, and so if you're
interested in being a part of that,

1053
01:17:05.000 --> 01:17:08.800
let me know if you know anyone
who wants to sponsor it. Also let

1054
01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:13.159
me know, but yeah, that'll
be at js remote coomf dot com or

1055
01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:15.520
you can just go to top end
devs and click conferences and it'll it'll show

1056
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:18.640
it. So those are my picks. And then finally, one last thing

1057
01:17:18.640 --> 01:17:21.399
that I'm going to shout out because
I love them, is I got a

1058
01:17:21.399 --> 01:17:26.199
couple new flavors of built bars.
Built bars are I always joke that they're

1059
01:17:26.199 --> 01:17:30.119
candy bars, but they're protein bars. And since I'm doing low carb,

1060
01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:33.039
they have like four net carbs and
it's because they coat them in chocolate,

1061
01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:38.479
but they it's not like overly sweetened
or anything, and so it keeps me

1062
01:17:38.520 --> 01:17:41.840
in that range where I want to
be for my carb counts and I'm really

1063
01:17:41.880 --> 01:17:45.479
really enjoying that. So I'm going
to shout out about that. And that's

1064
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:47.359
pretty much what I got. AJ. Did you want to do picks before

1065
01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:50.479
Nick does? Or should we turn? I can pull some picks down on

1066
01:17:50.520 --> 01:17:56.199
the hat here. Okay, Actually
I just discovered this channel. So what

1067
01:17:56.239 --> 01:18:00.520
I was doing was I was setting
up YouTube live for my church because we

1068
01:18:00.600 --> 01:18:04.640
had this broadcast system that was actually
really good and really easy to use,

1069
01:18:04.680 --> 01:18:09.319
but for some reason they're abandoning it, probably because there was never proper training

1070
01:18:09.399 --> 01:18:13.279
and anyway, so we're switching over
YouTube Libe and I started doing this thing

1071
01:18:13.279 --> 01:18:15.560
and then and then of course YouTube
wants to suggest to me all of these

1072
01:18:16.439 --> 01:18:21.479
I guess I don't know what YouTube's
trying to do, but it brought up

1073
01:18:21.479 --> 01:18:27.800
this atheist channel, and I actually
really really like it. It's called genetically

1074
01:18:27.800 --> 01:18:30.840
Modified Skeptic. I've watched two halves
of his videos so far. Maybe I've

1075
01:18:30.840 --> 01:18:34.560
watched a video and a half,
but this is just I'd have to say,

1076
01:18:34.720 --> 01:18:40.039
this is one of the most Christian
people I've seen on YouTube, because

1077
01:18:40.239 --> 01:18:45.600
his whole thing is about debating with
dignity and he points out where some of

1078
01:18:45.640 --> 01:18:49.920
these well, the two things I've
seen is basically, there's some Christian people

1079
01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:56.399
that are not being polite or very
Christian, and he picks apart from their

1080
01:18:56.520 --> 01:19:01.479
argument in a very non emotional,
non an inflammatory way, and and talks

1081
01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:06.319
and talks about it. And I
just think that he handles it so respectfully.

1082
01:19:06.640 --> 01:19:12.359
And I really like this kind of
content, the stuff that goes against

1083
01:19:12.520 --> 01:19:16.399
things that I believe, but in
a in a metered way or not necessarily

1084
01:19:16.439 --> 01:19:21.119
goes against what I believe, but
that might appear to go against some of

1085
01:19:21.159 --> 01:19:27.039
the things I believe or have a
different perspective, so genetically modified skeptic,

1086
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:30.960
but I do. There's this,
there's this whole thing when you're when you're

1087
01:19:31.159 --> 01:19:35.880
a believer of faith, you have
to be really open minded about the how

1088
01:19:36.039 --> 01:19:42.239
and the what as you hold to
the why, because faith is about the

1089
01:19:42.319 --> 01:19:45.640
why. It's not about the what
and the how. And I've had personal

1090
01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:50.720
friends that when they start to learn
more about science and reasoning and whatnot,

1091
01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:56.600
they they lose their faith, which
is really sad to me because the faith

1092
01:19:56.640 --> 01:20:01.199
isn't about all of the words verbatim
correct about when you follow these principles,

1093
01:20:01.239 --> 01:20:05.439
do you reap the good fruit of
the good tree. So I'm going to

1094
01:20:05.439 --> 01:20:09.680
put that caveat on there because I
don't want to steer anybody towards the end

1095
01:20:09.720 --> 01:20:12.960
of their faith. And I think
that sometimes when people approach things that are

1096
01:20:13.359 --> 01:20:15.039
I mean, I don't want to
baby anybody and say not ready for it,

1097
01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:17.720
but I think that is kind of
a thing milk before meat. For

1098
01:20:17.760 --> 01:20:21.720
those that are faith we probably know
that expression. But anyway, so I

1099
01:20:21.800 --> 01:20:24.920
like this channel. I'm going to
watch more of this stuff. Hopefully I

1100
01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:29.560
like more of it. Love.
I love this kind of metered debate style,

1101
01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:33.239
and then of course I'll pick the
normal things. Actually no. One.

1102
01:20:33.279 --> 01:20:39.119
Other thing is if you are interested. I am looking for people to

1103
01:20:40.159 --> 01:20:44.000
work with. I've got more work
than I can handle, so feel free

1104
01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:46.520
to reach out to me. I've
got a very simple litmus test which I'm

1105
01:20:46.520 --> 01:20:51.359
going to post here. If you
can solve this litmus test on your own

1106
01:20:51.399 --> 01:20:56.319
in a reasonable amount of time,
which I think that an hour would be

1107
01:20:56.399 --> 01:20:59.560
reasonable to get most of the way
there, and I think that it's certainly

1108
01:20:59.600 --> 01:21:02.520
possible many people will get there within
fifteen minutes to get most of the way

1109
01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:09.079
there. But if you can solve
this litmus test, then I could probably

1110
01:21:09.399 --> 01:21:11.680
farm out some work to you,
so if you're interested in that. And

1111
01:21:11.760 --> 01:21:17.520
I consider this to be a mid
level problem solving skill. Not I don't

1112
01:21:17.520 --> 01:21:19.920
think this is too difficult, but
I do think it is above what most

1113
01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:24.319
people would consider beginner. So I'm
going to post a link to that problem.

1114
01:21:24.439 --> 01:21:27.399
And then, yeah, then the
normal stuff if you want to follow

1115
01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:32.319
me on the YouTube's on the twitches. Beyond code is the more structured content,

1116
01:21:32.439 --> 01:21:35.479
and then my live streams and whatnot. Go under school age eighty six

1117
01:21:35.760 --> 01:21:40.279
gotcha. What you said reminded me
of a meme I saw the other day

1118
01:21:40.279 --> 01:21:43.680
on Facebook where basically they were saying, you know, it was a missed

1119
01:21:43.720 --> 01:21:48.079
opportunity to not have Neil Young go
on the Joe Rogan Show and discuss with

1120
01:21:48.239 --> 01:21:53.199
Joe what his issues were, and
that kind of assuming they would both be

1121
01:21:53.680 --> 01:21:57.439
civil to each other. I think
could have been a really interesting thing,

1122
01:21:57.479 --> 01:22:01.279
if you've heard the controversy over Spotify, just just that kind of a conversation.

1123
01:22:01.319 --> 01:22:04.159
I feel like we lack a lot
of times where it's it's, hey,

1124
01:22:04.199 --> 01:22:08.840
look, you know, let's let's
actually understand each other instead of just

1125
01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:11.920
you know, throwing barbs over the
fence one way or the other. Anyway,

1126
01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:14.239
Nick, do you have some picks? I do, and I apologize

1127
01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:16.560
for any background noise. I got
construction going on outside and they have just

1128
01:22:16.640 --> 01:22:20.600
decided to increase the noise right about
now. So yeah, I have two

1129
01:22:20.680 --> 01:22:25.000
picks. One. I also like
board games, and you probably might have

1130
01:22:25.119 --> 01:22:29.199
heard of this one, Settlers of
Katan. It's an only a really fun

1131
01:22:29.239 --> 01:22:31.720
one. I think that's a great
one for the social aspect, especially when

1132
01:22:31.760 --> 01:22:35.359
you go about arguing with people and
you know, getting into a little fights

1133
01:22:35.359 --> 01:22:39.119
with them, et cetera. It's
kind of fun. And I want to

1134
01:22:39.880 --> 01:22:44.760
also suggest a TV show that I
watched on Netflix recently that I really really

1135
01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:48.239
like. It's called Halt and Catch
Fire. It's the history of sort of

1136
01:22:48.279 --> 01:22:51.880
a startup, a tech startup in
Silicon Valley. They go through the whole

1137
01:22:53.119 --> 01:22:56.520
sort of this is in the early
days of computing, so you get a

1138
01:22:56.520 --> 01:23:00.680
glimpse into, you know, the
like the birth of microcomputing and then software

1139
01:23:00.720 --> 01:23:04.600
and all that kind of stuff.
It's a brilliantly done show and I really

1140
01:23:04.680 --> 01:23:09.640
like that. So yeah, those
are a couple of picks for me.

1141
01:23:09.720 --> 01:23:12.560
And I also wanted to say thank
you so much for having me. I

1142
01:23:12.600 --> 01:23:16.880
really enjoyed this conversation. I really
like that you had some great questions and

1143
01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:19.960
we had a really good debate.
So I really love that, So thank

1144
01:23:19.960 --> 01:23:26.319
you so much for coming too much, Nick, I don't get offended.

1145
01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:30.920
I enjoy these because if we can't
if we can't handle skepticism from reason,

1146
01:23:31.000 --> 01:23:35.640
from smart people, and we are
not able to defend and come up with

1147
01:23:35.920 --> 01:23:41.319
good answers for this, then this
technology is not very good, right,

1148
01:23:41.399 --> 01:23:45.159
I mean, so it's going to
improve when there are more people approaching this

1149
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:48.119
with skepticism, etc. I think
it's only going to get better and better

1150
01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:51.119
and better. It's far from perfect
right now. Well I think I think

1151
01:23:51.119 --> 01:23:55.039
we've seen that with all kinds of
technologies. And that's why I want to

1152
01:23:55.079 --> 01:23:57.479
cover it is it's like, Okay, well, as we get a little

1153
01:23:57.479 --> 01:24:00.439
further down the rabbit hole on this, yeah, you know what, what

1154
01:24:00.520 --> 01:24:03.159
are the possibilities and what opportunities do
we miss if we're not willing to even

1155
01:24:03.159 --> 01:24:05.479
look at it? So we're gonna
go ahead and wrap it up here.

1156
01:24:05.600 --> 01:24:12.720
Thanks again for coming Nick. Until
next time, Popes max out