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Hey, they're friends. Remember when
spiritual but not religious was all the rage.

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Well it's back like that nineties fashion
you hope would stay in the past.

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A recent gallup Paul says that thirty
three percent of Americans identify this way,

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and it's got me rethinking my skepticism. Turns out politics plays a role.

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Republicans are more religious, Democrats lean
more spiritual, and independence are somewhere

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in between. So is this label
just about political vibes or is there something

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deeper going on? Maybe it's time
to give the spiritual but not religious crew

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a second look. The story is
from Deseret News via Yahoo, published on

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September twenty sixth, twenty twenty twenty
three. And before I pass it off

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to Kelly here, I have a
limerick here that's going to explain to us.

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It's going to put to rest.
What does spiritual but religious mean?

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I asked this of chat GPT.
I said, give me a lyric about

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what it means to be spiritual but
not religious, And he says, a

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spirit that's free, not confined,
no doctrines or creeds intertwined, and seeking

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truth on their own in silence.
They've grown spiritual not religious. They find

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they're away, Kelly, that was
awesome. I'm still not sure what people

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mean when they say they're spiritual.
I ask a lot of people who used

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the word. Most of them can't
explain it either. It just seems to

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be a buzzword for something tangible that
most people don't really seem to understand.

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What are the good definitions? I've
heard, though, was being cognizant of

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the connectedness of all people and the
world that we live in, And if

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that's what it means, that's a
pretty good definition. But I'm not sure

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that we can agree what the idea
of interconnectedness is, so it becomes a

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little nebulous on that end too.
But I think it's a good working definition

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to begin with and explore through conversations
with people claiming to be spiritual. It

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does seem to be a way station
along the road to atheism, though.

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I've noticed that as the amount of
nuns, the people not affiliated with any

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religion in the United States seems to
grow, the amount of spiritual people seems

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to grow as well. And I'm
not so sure that that's people diving into

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atheism or agnosticism. I think a
lot of that is people who are tired

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of churches organized churches. They still
believe in God, they still believe in

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Jesus, but they're really just sick
of organized church. So they don't go

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on Sunday, they don't practice their
religion, but they'll still pray to Jesus

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when something bad happens to them.
And I think that's where a lot of

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these people who are saying they're spiritual
are at inside their head, at least

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within my own experience. I don't
have any research to back this up or

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anything. It's obviously just my own
experience, but that seems to be where

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most people are at. I still
believe in God, I still believe in

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Jesus. I still pray when I
need to, but I don't need to

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go to any church. So Cynthia, what is your what's been your experience

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with this? Well, you know, when I first accepted the title and

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nomenclature is HEYTHEUS, I ran across
a joke that said that black people who

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say that they are spiritual are really
atheists, but they don't want their mother

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to know. You know, guys, I struggled with this whole thing about

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spiritualism versus religiosity, and especially being
an extra Christian that was in a holiness

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church that came out of a of
Zuza Pentecostal background that liked to actually utilize

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terminology like it's about relationship not religion. I think that some of us ex

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fundis have heard at a time or
two, and I remember even being on

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like you know, call in shows
like Talking than a couple of times and

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even truth wanted where that came up, and I would ask, Okay,

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so I can point and say that
I have a relationship with my mother and

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I can give you her name,
I can tell you where she lives,

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and if you want, I can
actually show that she exists. So I

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have a tangible right, right,
that's a tangible relationship that can be observed

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and that you know, people will
be able to say that, hey,

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guess what, this actual relate,
this relation ship actually exists. And I

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believe Cynthia when she says that she
has a relationship with her mother, because

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she produced the person and she's a
relationship with Now going back to this whole

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thing about spirituality, and uh,
Kelly, could you please repeat the definition

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that you found. That's sure spirituality, thank you. Sure it is being

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cognizant of the connectedness of all people
in the world we live in. Okay,

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So that just to me, if
I were to hear that definition,

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that just means that I'm conscious that
other people exist, and I have a

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potential, I have potential relationships with
people who happen to exist, you know,

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they're the whole spirit lost. It
seems a bit vague, right,

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Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's
lost in that. So even if I

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listen to that particular definition, I'm
like, okay, so where's the spirituality?

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Right? Is that not just being
in a world with other people?

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Yeah? Yeah, Like how is
that not just being like, you know,

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I'm in relationship with Infidel and Scott
and Kelly because we happen to all

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be members of the the atheist community
of Austin, and we all happen to

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be participants of the nonprofits. And
I think it's more about having an interconnectedness

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with everybody though, even the people
that we don't know or have an actual

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physical connection to, do you know
what I mean? Well, okay,

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but here's the thing. When we
say that, you know, what what

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can be considered physical or intangible?
I mean, like I struggle with that

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too, only because if we were
to say that, like I'm conscious of

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other people existence. I'm conscious that
are other people in the world, and

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I be able to have relationship with
them, and I am aware of their

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exist since even though I may not
know them personally. But the thing about

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it is is that there are physical
means to actually connect us to others.

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There are cell phones, there is
the Internet, there is email, There

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is getting on a flight and flying
to a different country and learning and meeting

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other people. And I know that
there are other people who may even exist

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outside of this particular realm. It
is because there's already been things that demonstrated

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that people exist. But again,
where is the spirituality? And I think

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that another issue that I have specifically
with this whole terminology is because Kelly,

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this is the first time that I'm
hearing that definition is on our panel.

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That's the first time when you are
talking to as Cynthia Man. Jeez man,

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there's a whole world out there,
Cynthia, you just got to go

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out there and talk to these spiritual
people. That's my problem. That's the

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problem. That's the problem. I'm
not aware, but you know, but

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regardless of that, guys, you
know, in all seriousness, like when

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you are talking to people who happen
to have this nomenclature or identity of spiritual,

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and you ask him what does that
mean. You are going to get

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different responses. Some may come with
you with the Kelly's definition. One person

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told me spirituality is breath. I
said, well, can't you just say

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breath? You know? I mean, like, I remember when I was

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a thinner person of more flexibility,
and I practiced yoga, and they would

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talk about breath and it was prana
and and I guess like that was like

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Hindu for spirit and and I guess
like there's like some connectivity with other religions,

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including like Christianity do a jail Christian
things about you know, the breath

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of lifel blah. The word spirit
has its root that means breath. Mm

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hmm yeah, okay, respiration right, respiration has spirit right embedded right in

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it. So I mean that's high
schools. That's not too much of a

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stretch, sure. And I mean, like, and if you want to

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equivocate, you know that I am
spiritual, So I believe in breathing.

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I'm fine with that, man.
But the problem is is that you have

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other loaded ideologies when it comes to
saying that you are spiritual, and it

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normally has to do with being a
person that believes and even maybe practicing something

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that has to do with, you
know, it's the supernatural, which we

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can't even say with full confidence exists
because we don't have any type of method

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to prove the supernatural exist. But
I want to know what Infidel says exist.

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This is for you. Meet you, meet you, I want to

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know that what exists, this is
for you, Cynthia, Well, you

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know, thank you. When I
was a believer, I'd admit that I

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was dismissive of that whole spiritual's concept. So I'm probably the wrong person to

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ask on what all of that means, because I felt it was a rather

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tepid position that intended to exist between
two viewpoints. Now, one thing that

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Cynthia you did mention was, you
know, coming out as an as an

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atheist and realizing that, you know, that's an adjustment. I know for

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me, I I spent a while
telling myself I was agnostic, not really

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understanding that that really isn't a middle
road between atheists and theists. But I

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feel that's somewhat what we get with
oftentimes with people who call themselves spiritual.

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You know, they they want to
say, okay, they want to tell

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the religious people that, you know, I'm spiritual, so you know,

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I'm not one of those atheists.
I'm not one of those people. I'm

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close to what you are without really
committing to anything. And of course with

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secular people, it's well, you
know, I'm I'm spiritual, but I'm

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not really like those religious people.
Those you know, those people who you

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know are out of their minds or
whatever you think about them. I've got

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my own version of feel good WU. But as dismissive as I am towards

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them, they do point out one
thing very clearly. Christianity is dying.

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What we're seeing is both Christianity and
Islam in the throes of their own demise.

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You know, I was mentioned earlier
about the nuns. You know,

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people have been leaving organized religion for
decades. Every metric shows it. The

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church membership, the nuns, and
Christianity is running scared. And the truth

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is they should be. You know, just bronze age myths just don't have

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the same relevance today, and people
are looking for something to fill that void.

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They feel that maybe in their life
and this spiritual catch off phrase has

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become an open slate for whatever sounds
good at the moment, and that's what

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scares me. You know, most
of them are coming out of Christianity.

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You know, the pump's already primed
to accept bad beliefs without serious examination.

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And my concern is is that as
they learn to grow out of these spiritual

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beliefs, you know, they're just
going to replace these with something just as

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bad and unhealthy for not only them, but for us as a society.

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That's what I know. Now I'm
glad, Yeah, now I am glad

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to see people casting off the chains
of religion. But one set of bad

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ideas down, one more to go, you know. And this is one

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thing that I think. It's a
reminder of why it's so important what we

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do. You know, it's helping
people understand that you don't need to replace

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religion with something else. It's all
a lie. Just just put it to

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bed, just like you did religion, Cynthia. You mentioned being from a

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Nazeusa Street Pentecostal background. Man,
you rung a bell there, because you

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know I'm from UPCI United Pentecostal Church
and you know, so it was the

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same concept and getting out of those
things and deconstructing from that. You know,

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it's it's a loss of community.
It's a loss of so many things

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that you were so familiar with and
so comfortable with. And I get why

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people do it. I just don't
think they have good reasons for it.

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But that's why, as I said, I think it's important that we encourage

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people to explore those to ask those
questions, as more than one of us

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has mentioned, of asking what does
it mean to be spiritual? To put

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those ideas in front of them so
they can self reflect. It's not a

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matter of confrontation. It's a matter
of them thinking, do I really have

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a good reason for feeling the way
I do? Do I really have a

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good reason to believe what I do? You know? But the truth is,

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for me, it's kind of a
situation. And I admit I'm a

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little bit of an extremist time to
time. I know that may come as

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a shock to all of you.
I'm glad you're all sitting down, But

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for me, it's pick a side. Either you believe made up shit or

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you don't. And with that,
Scott, what do you have to add?

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I will add, well, first
of all, I would like to

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add I'm calling bullshit and not on
what you were saying. I agree with

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what you were just talking about,
but I'll come back to the bullshit what

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you You and Cynthia too, we're
both talking about how or Cynthia, you

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mentioned that some you know, some
people are accusing of these people maybe accusing

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is not the right word, but
accusing them of being really atheists, but

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they're just not, you know,
don't want to admit it. And then

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Infidel you were talking about people that
have the flip side, right, the

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people it's it's uh, people that
are religious that are distancing themselves from religion.

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And we saw this, this idea
in in the segment earlier this week

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when we were talking about Christian organization
wanting to petition TBN to not broadcast my

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cuckabee because he's you know, talking
about bullets and ship, right, and

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so so we have so the idea
that they're uh, here, we're seeing

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this fracturing of of this block.
And so it's me, I just need

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for you to say one more time, bullets and ship, bullets and ship.

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But yeah, so anyway, so
there's this distancing, there's this arm's

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length, uh, saying, you
know, yes, we're Christians too,

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but we're pushing you know, there's
there's some distancing going on. So now

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back to the bullshit here, And
I want to illustrate my thought here on

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this whole here. Here's how I
can sum up my perspective on the spiritual

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but not religious crew. And so
I'm I'm gonna recite a few lines from

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the movie Mystery Men. And this
is a scene where the Shoveler and mister

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Furious are talking about another superhero,
Captain Amazing, and why they just can't

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get as much press as Captain Amazing
is getting. So the shoveler says,

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well, if we had a billionaire
like Lance Hunt is our benefactor, and

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the mister Furious interrupt says, that's
because Lance Hunt is Captain Amazing, and

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the Shovel's like, no, don't
start that again. Lance Hunt wears glasses.

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Captain Amazing doesn't wear glasses, and
mister Furious is like, yeah,

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because he just takes him off when
he changes. And so that's what's happening

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here. We're seeing, Yeah,
we're onto you, Okay, just because

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you take the glasses off of religion
doesn't mean that it's not Lance Hunt still

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standing there in front of us,
right, it's still the same stuff,

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and it's not I appreciate I and
sorry I'm getting a little worked up here.

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I appreciate the distancing. I appreciate
that you recognize that religion does harm

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and that you don't want to be
associated with that kind of thinking, that

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you don't want to be associated with
that kind of acting, You don't want

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to be associated with that kind of
philosophy and ideology. And I think that's

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good. But I'll give you another
analogy here. I prefer Russian Roulette players

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that survive over Russian Roulette players that
don't survive. Now, of course it's

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better and it's great when if people
survive that ordeal or as opposed to not

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surviving it. But that's not the
problem, right, You're not addressing the

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problem. The problem is the game, right. The problem is the actual

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action of doing the Russian Roulette,
and neither of those positions affect it.

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And so if it's not, Yes, there are things that come out of

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religion that are harmful. Subjugation of
women, the mistreatment of children, sexual

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mistreatment of children, fraud, all
kinds of things, and so we know

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that that happens, but just saying, well, I'm still you know,

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I still want to believe in something
bigger than my you know, I still

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want to think that there's a power
out there. I'm just not one of

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them. Well, you know that's
the issue. It's the irrational beliefs that

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are the problem. They're the source, right. The other things are are

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horrible, but they're symptoms. There
are symptoms of this virus, and the

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virus is the irrational beliefs. And
so if you that's just my opinion obviously,

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And so I think the spiritual but
not religious crowd is just putting a

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band aid on this cancer and it's
not going to it's not going to heal

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it. It might stop your bleeding, it might stop you know, the

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you know pain or whatever, but
it's not going to fix the problem.

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And I think that until we can, and I'm happy that we're moving in

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that direction. You know, this
isn't all a bad thing. But what

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I'm saying is that until we address
that root cause, the source, right,

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until we admit to ourselves that damn
it, Lance Hunt is captain amazing.

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Okay, they're the same thing.
You got to treat them the same

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way, and I've been hogging the
mic enough, Kelly, why don't you

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tell me what's on your mind here? First off, kudos to you for

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bringing up Mystery Men, because it
is hands down my favorite, my very

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favorite superhero movie. A Kelly when
Yeah, but you're absolutely right, it

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does. This is more. It's
still a symptom of bad thinking. A

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lot of these people who are spiritual, they're not giving up this irrational belief

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in super in the supernatural. A
lot of them still believe in ghosts,

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a lot of them still believe in
alien abductions, a lot of them still

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believe in kryptids. This is it's
not the end of bad thinking. And

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I think that we need to maybe
show these people that it's okay to give

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up these irrational beliefs. You don't
have to pretend that you're still spiritual.

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It's okay to be an atheist.
It's okay to not believe in spirits,

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it's okay to not believe in ghosts, it's okay to be a rational thinking

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person. I think that's very,
very important that we set an example to

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people for that and to let people
know that they could join us. So

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I mean, I don't have much
else to add than that. So Cynthia,

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you want to take it, sure, I'll take it and run it

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on home. So one of the
things that this particular article also highlighted,

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because it was really about this Gallup
hole that talked about in June of twenty

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I'm sorry, July of twenty twenty
three, it basically revealed that the landscape

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of the United States is changing.
Nearly half Americans forty seven percent identify as

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religious, while thirty three percent consider
themselves spiritual not religious, and only two

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percent claim both. And also the
data has shifted over the years, as

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the proportion of Americans identifying as religious
has declined by seven percentage points since nineteen

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ninety nine. And we will include
the gallupole for all of you guys who

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happen to be curious that it also
shows how those particular numbers will show up

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when it comes to how you identify
in politics and and how you may even

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like you know, utilize that in
other groups that you know are important to

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you when it comes to the idea. But I think that one of the

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things that this particular article actually revealed
that the findings in the Gallup Pole suggests

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that while religioniosity is on the decline
in the United States, the majority of

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Americans still maintain some form of religious
or spiritual connection. And the rise of

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spirituality and the increase in those identifying
as neither religious nor spiritual indicate ongoing shifts

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in the country's religious landscape. So
it's going along with the trends that we

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actually seen and reported on this show. And Scott, I think that you

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said that you I feel because I
feel the spirit feelings. Yeah. I

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just wanted to add one little bit
at the end here. You said that

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the poll was showing that the landscape
was changing in America, and I think

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that I think that this is a
change for the better, right, I

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think this is what we're seeing here
is our country maturing and and it reminded.

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And I know that this is a
I know this is the nonprofits.

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But I want to share my favorite
Bible verse. And my favorite Bible verse

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is from First Corinthians thirteen eleven.
You might know the what I'm talking about.

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Yes, Oh, we got to
say, everybody in your Bible,

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go to right follow along if you
like. It's when I was a child,

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I spoke as a child, I
understood as a child, and I

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thought, as a child became a
man, I put away childish things.

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And so when I see this kind
of thing happening here, Yes, we're

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putting away childish things. Oh I
shay, shay, I know that's right.

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And you know, just just to
piggyback on what you just said,

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Scott, because that, really,
you know, spoke to my spirit.

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I will say it again. I've
said it before and I'm going to say

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it again that with more knowledge of
our environment and our universe, the need

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to use religion as an explanation will
come to not and to me, this

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indication of spiritual is more of a
wanting to have one's cake and eat it

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too. And I'm not going to
balk at one if they want to claim

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spiritual. But through more inquiry and
more use of the Socratic method, my

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favorite spiritual becomes, in my opinion, more inconsequential. But what's not inconsequential,

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dear viewer, listener, It's more
for the nonprofits. So click here