WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:44.840 Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro 2 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:51.039 Rojas, and we have with us as usual, Martin cooled as Ice, 3 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:58.439 willis and willing to sacrifice? Are willing to sacrifice? That kind of rhymes 4 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:02.240 because it's kind of a rapper thing, old as ice, so because you're 5 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:04.640 freezing out there. But we have a special guest on another person who is 6 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:11.239 cooled as ice, which is Lespiegel in New York. Helloly, hello both 7 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:15.640 of you. Why am I more of a special guest than Martin is? 8 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:22.079 Well, Martin's are not regularly, so by definition, you're a special guest. 9 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:29.680 Okay, So I'm the irregular special guest. Okay, yeah, irregular 10 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:33.519 special guests is a good way to put it. So, Uh, you 11 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:36.959 guys are out there on the east where it's freezing. I think it's like 12 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:41.239 seventy degrees. It's sunny here. We had a bit of a warm spell, 13 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.920 which is so funny. And that's what people don't realize. It's global 14 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:53.120 global Uh, you know, warming is really better explained as climate change. 15 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:59.120 It just means the weather's getting weird. Man, That's exactly right. Well, 16 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:00.760 and lately I know you're right, I don't think we can use the 17 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:06.319 term global warming anymore. For us here on the East, it's it's more 18 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:09.960 appropriate to say it's global freezing. Yeah, you guys are freezing your your 19 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:14.199 you know, WhatsApp are you guys surviving? Though? You're doing okay? 20 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:20.199 Yeah, it's almost like hibernation time though, you know. I mean it 21 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:24.120 was minus twenty two degrees fahrenheit. And when I woke up this morning at 22 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:30.039 seven o'clock, mm hmm. And I think I think Central Park here in 23 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:36.800 New York last night broke a record for most frigid temperature. Really, I'm 24 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:42.000 not sure if that was. Yeah, and we're like about two or three 25 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:46.439 days they say from fifty degrees hitting New York. Well, well fine, 26 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:52.560 I mean really, I don't know what how many scarves I need to put 27 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:54.759 on on any given day now, or how many jackets I will tell you. 28 00:02:54.840 --> 00:03:01.319 I mean, you know, thank God for bttoms and tops thermal underwear 29 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:06.759 because it really helps. Yeah. I was in Colorado for a few days 30 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:09.719 and I wish I had it because that's what I would be wearing these days. 31 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:14.280 My blood's so thin, I cannot have no resistance to the cold. 32 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:17.400 It's awful. I'm I'm sure. In fact, I said, if I'm 33 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:22.080 gonna live anywhere, it's got to have palm trees or I won't be there. 34 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:27.759 I have palm trees, but the indoor, Nah, that doesn't count. 35 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:32.319 So let's move on to the guest. I always announced who the guest 36 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:36.919 is. Of course we already know. It's Lee Spiegel, formerly of the 37 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.120 Huftington Post. Now you're working on a cool documentary project with James Fox, 38 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:44.039 who's been on the show. You know he does, and I think, 39 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:50.400 many people's opinions a couple of the best documentaries on this topic ever. Yeah, 40 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:53.520 really good stuff. So everybody's really excited for this new one. Lee 41 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.719 has also been involved with so many other things, been involved with media and 42 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:03.800 journalism for many, many years. Interviewed one of the first to interview people 43 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:12.080 like astronauts and others about UFOs, worked with Heinik and Ballet and all of 44 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:15.199 these important names. If you don't know who those people are at google it. 45 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:20.800 But yeah, Lee's got a lifetime of experience in journalism and especially in 46 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:26.079 UFOs. So very exciting. Always good to have you on the show, 47 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.399 Lee, and this show in particular, I love we're going to be talking 48 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:32.319 about the year in review. And for me, this is kind of like 49 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:36.000 Christmas. It's kind of like opening packages, because you know, I don't 50 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.959 know what stories you guys are going to talk about, and so I'm always 51 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.160 excited to hear which stories you all are going to bring up. But we'll 52 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:46.680 get to that Before that, Let's go ahead and start with some of the 53 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.240 news. So Martin of course is our news dude and starts us off with 54 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:55.399 some of the latest news and what you got there, Martin, Well, 55 00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:00.000 I'm going to be talking today about the mystery of the alien megastructure. How 56 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:04.759 star has been cracked. Yeah, the case has been cracked. Wa wah 57 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:10.040 whah. Now there are several articles out there about this, but I gathered 58 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:15.600 some quotes from this recent article by Nadia Drake from the National Geographic just in 59 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:23.399 a nutshell the you did. Yeah, she was in Hungary with us for 60 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:27.800 the National Geographic thing. I got to spend some time with her. Totally 61 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.839 not into UFOs or open to the idea at all, which is funny because 62 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.399 it was brought up not by me, someone else. But yeah, she's 63 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:40.079 very cool. She's got a PhD. And she was a ballerina in like 64 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:46.560 this big group and which both are just amazing accomplishments on their own because if 65 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.439 you know, professional ballerinas go through a lot, but very cool person just 66 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:54.120 wanted to do that quick shout out. Sorry, wow, no that's great. 67 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:58.399 So just in a nutshell, this all began back in twenty eleven when 68 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:03.519 citizens scientist with the Planet Hunter's Project were sorting through the data from NASA's Kepler 69 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:10.040 spacecraft, and they spotted the signatures of more than twenty three hundred planets during 70 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:14.839 its four year primary observations. You know, as the planet's pass the stars, 71 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.839 they have a dip or a blip in their stars light. But the 72 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:26.879 dips Kepler recorded from Tavi Star didn't correspond to anything remotely like the planet shadowy 73 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:31.040 fingerprint should. Instead, they appeared to be more intense and entirely random. 74 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:38.920 Once alerted to this star formerly KIC eight four six two eight five two, 75 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:45.360 astronomers couldn't come up with a reasonable explanation for what they were seeing, So 76 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:50.839 the hypothesis they ranged from a swarm of comets orbiting the star to dusty debris 77 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:57.399 dusty debris disk surrounding a black hole between the star and Earth, to material 78 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:02.000 within our own solar system, which I had never realized before, or the 79 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:09.279 stellar of fluctuations in Tabby Star. And finally they came up with alien megastructures. 80 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.120 Of course, you and I, Alejandro, I've talked about that a 81 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:17.920 number of times times since then. So when they first began to propose this, 82 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:26.079 the Seti Institute monitored the dimming star for signs of transmissions from alien life. 83 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:30.920 They even pointed one of the planet's most sensitive radio telescopes at the star, 84 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:36.120 hoping to hear murmurs from a civilization, but instead they heard nothing. 85 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:46.480 And that's too bad. So astronomer Tabitha boyan Tabby Star named after launched a 86 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:51.680 Kickstarter campaign and she pulled in more than one hundred thousand dollars and to harness 87 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:57.199 the power of a variety of ground based instruments, and her goal was to 88 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:01.439 catch the star in the act of demming and get a better look at why 89 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:05.959 what might be blocking the light in real time. So they began the observations 90 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.240 back in twenty sixteen. It continued through two thousand, I mean through December 91 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:15.920 twenty seventeen, and in May of last year, she got lucky. Tabby 92 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:20.639 got lucky. Her star began to dim, so almost immediately nearly a dozen 93 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:26.680 telescopes on Earth swiveled to stare at it. Scientists furiously collected data and in 94 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:33.480 nearly every wavelength of light, so after many months and four distinct dips, 95 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:39.279 the star was no longer visible to telescopes in the northern hemisphere. So now 96 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:43.919 after this her and more than two hundred collaborators have analyzed the data from the 97 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:52.480 last twenty two months and report in the Astrophysical Journal Letters that the dust is 98 00:08:52.960 --> 00:09:00.559 that dust is responsible for the dip, and that the alien megastructures are not 99 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:07.639 responsible for the depth. No alien megastructures. Yeah. Yeah, And it's 100 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:09.320 interesting because I was like, well, how could they tell in one of 101 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:13.360 the ways which makes sense. They can tell us by looking at the different 102 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:18.759 frequencies of lights and how the dust filters the light. So of course it's 103 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:24.399 not completely opaque dust. You can light goes through it, and so the 104 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.399 analyzing the light that goes through it, they were able to confirm that it 105 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:33.080 is dust, and they wouldn't have been able to confirm it though without Tabby's 106 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.200 Kickstarter, So because she raised those funds, they were able to point more 107 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:39.960 satellites and analyze it. So the mystery solved. However, I think the 108 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:43.159 silver lining, and I'd love to hear what you guys think, is that 109 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:46.039 they were open. I mean, it was their first scientific paper that in 110 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:52.799 their list of hypotheses was aliens. So it wasn't you know, the conspiracy 111 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.720 people saying this. It was a scientist showing that they are really open to 112 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:03.000 these possibilities. Oh yeah, yeah. And we're at a point now scientifically 113 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:11.240 and historically where finally we can say that there are scientists who are kind of 114 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:16.600 bending in this direction of the possibilities, that we're not alone. And it's 115 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:20.559 like it's like a breath of fresh air to realize that this is going on. 116 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.399 And I think the public should be told this as often as possible because 117 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:30.759 we're we've come out of a out of many years, many decades of the 118 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:35.320 the skeptics and the debunkers putting all of this stuff down. Uh it, 119 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:41.759 you know, it's it's as though we're still someone living in the days of 120 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:46.759 you know, Isaac Newton and Galileo and these people who made initial observations of 121 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:50.279 the universe, and you know, some of them were practically stoned to death 122 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.639 because they dared to think and consider what might be happening around us. Uh, 123 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:58.879 and so where we are now at the point where people are beginning to 124 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.960 think this. And for me, one of the stories, and again this 125 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:11.639 was not UFO related, but in April, was a great story that I 126 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:18.320 love to bring this up. Time magazine put out its annual issue. It's 127 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.480 a list that they put together called the one hundred most influential people in the 128 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:28.600 world, and three of these people were scientists, and one of them, 129 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:35.919 this woman named Natalie Batalha is with NASA's Ames Research Center in California, and 130 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:43.320 she, in fact is she's the director of the little Kepler spacecraft that's been 131 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:48.840 discovering all these amazing planetary bodies and reasons for us to think about what's going 132 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.559 on out there. I mean, since I was looking up some of the 133 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:58.519 statistics, since Kepler was launched in two thousand and nine, it has found 134 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:05.159 almost fifty fifty one hundred possible planets and twenty five hundred have been confirmed. 135 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:11.159 And that's like, that's a lot. We've come a long way in making 136 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:18.320 these kinds of assumptions that we have all these planets. Well, and she's 137 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.399 an alien hunter and I think that's a great point. I think that it's 138 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.440 so cool that you brought this up because those scientists you talked about her and 139 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:31.440 I think another are essentially looking for life in space, so they're alien hunters, 140 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.519 which is so cool. Well, she made When Time magazine made these 141 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.960 awards, they did a three way interview with them, and when they interviewed 142 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:46.799 Natalie, they she said something that was very telling. She basically said that 143 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:54.519 these new planetary or exoplanet discoveries are changing how we look at the universe. 144 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.000 And then she said something I'm going to quote her because I love the quote. 145 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:01.840 She said, you know, we look up the sky and instead of 146 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:07.720 seeing stars, we see other solar systems, because now we know that every 147 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:13.799 star in the sky has at least one planet. End quote. I mean, 148 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:18.639 really, it's an interesting quote. But it has been argued. People 149 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:24.200 have debated that quote, whether that's accurate or not, whether some stars don't 150 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.519 have planets, but they all agree that there are many more planets than are 151 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:33.600 stars, and most stars have planets, So I wonder about that. Yeah, 152 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:35.840 I've gotten a lot of feedback on people debating that quote. Yeah, 153 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:41.639 and I think it would be it's interesting if anybody who likes to go out 154 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.480 on a summer or winter evening and just kind of look up at the stars 155 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:50.159 at night, especially if you're in an area where you can see the Milky 156 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:56.799 Way. It's an interesting eye opening concept to think to yourself like, wow, 157 00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:01.200 look at all those stars, and then remind yourself, oh, I'm 158 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.159 looking at a lot of solar systems. Yeah. Yeah, you know, 159 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.159 even if you just think the majority of these are solar systems, when you're 160 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:13.799 looking out and just see millions and millions, billions and billions of stars, 161 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:18.600 it's like, it is mind boggling. I love that quote too, and 162 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.519 that first time I read it was in your story on this and I was 163 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.120 just like it was probably it hit you me, like it did you where 164 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:30.279 it's like, yeah, it changes your perspective that, Wow, I'm looking 165 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:35.000 at gobs and gobs of solar systems, and how could you know these solar 166 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:39.600 systems not have life? They've got to, right, Yeah. I mean 167 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:46.120 many of the odds are the statistical odds are so high and so important. 168 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.799 And even if you live someplace like I live in Queens, New York, 169 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:54.320 where you're lucky even to see the moon on some light but if like all 170 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.120 of a sudden, like you have to see coming through the clouds or the 171 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.559 overcast, if you see a star, I could say, wow, that 172 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.399 that could be a solar system that I'm looking at. Yeah, it's it's 173 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:11.919 like it's almost the basis of so much science fiction that we're all a part 174 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.279 of. Yeah, yeah, cool, that's amazing. Now all hundred you 175 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.320 have to know about the Kepler. I know that the wheel, you know, 176 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:24.279 stopped functioning and it was out of commission. Did they and they were 177 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.279 going to try to fix that remotely? Do you know if that? Do 178 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:30.639 you know anything about that? Uh? You know what. I don't know 179 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:35.799 what the status is on that, do you lee? I don't, No, 180 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:41.440 I really don't. I haven't looked up anything involving Kepler in a while. 181 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:46.879 I didn't know if it was malfunctioning at all. Although even if there 182 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:54.000 is a malfunction on Kepler, there are other ways that scientists and astronomers are 183 00:15:54.039 --> 00:16:00.080 able to detect planets without the use of Kepler, right, just by simply 184 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:06.879 using ground based astronomical devices. But they still they also have a lot of 185 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:11.480 data to comb through because it just gathered so much data. Yeah, and 186 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:15.759 I guess, like you said, one of the wheels was is broken, 187 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:22.200 but they do have at least two remaining functional wheels. It's just limited, 188 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.279 I guess, and its movement now. But I know this year we've got 189 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:33.879 more planet detectors going up in space, so we should learn more this year. 190 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:37.440 So the next story, you got another story for us, Marty, 191 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:38.879 No, no, you go ahead and move on to the next one. 192 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:44.440 All right, Well, I will bring up I will bring up one other 193 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:48.840 one that we wrote about recently that brought up some debate, and just for 194 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:53.399 the folks listening, we of course this New York Times story. This Pentagon 195 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.600 program is a big story. Our last couple of shows have been on it, 196 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:02.159 and we'll be talking more about that one in the last segment because there's 197 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.839 a lot to talk about. But here's one piece of new information that had 198 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.599 come out. This came from this is on Open Mind to that TV and 199 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.240 it came from one of our contributors, Andres Mueller, who has his own 200 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:18.880 German website. He's kind of a German paranormal researcher, although he focuses on 201 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.519 the science of all of this stuff. So he did something cool. So 202 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:27.079 one of the mysteries is the Nimetz case. So we had Robert Polin talking 203 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:33.759 about Nimetz and how in outside of San Diego in November of two thousand and 204 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.480 four. You know, there was this sighting. Soon after it happened, 205 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.200 or a year or two after it happened, one of the pilots who was 206 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:45.240 involved wrote about it on a blog, an F eighteen pilot who chased this 207 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:48.319 thing. But the mystery is this, And now that the New York Times 208 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:55.920 article came out to the stars on their website posted two of allegedly three videos 209 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.680 they have, and one of them is this Nimetz video. So now we're 210 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.759 able to confirm that this ir video that has been online for a while is 211 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:10.240 from the Nimts incident. But the question that people have been asking ever since 212 00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:15.039 this video was leaked online is how did it? Who leaked it? How 213 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.920 did this video get online in the first place, because it's been online for 214 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.400 like a couple of years now and nobody is quite sure where it comes from. 215 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:26.480 Well, one person had done some research and they found the trace the 216 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:33.279 video back to a server from a film company in Germany. And these guys 217 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:37.799 do two D and three D animation, which led some people to believe, 218 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:41.799 especially before it was confirmed, that perhaps this whole thing was hoaxed, or 219 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:45.559 it was at least a video that they had made for a movie or something 220 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.599 like that. We did get a confirmation, you know, offline, from 221 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:53.680 a couple of people that it was real, and now we do know it's 222 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.920 real because you know, it was released by the guy who worked for the 223 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:00.960 Department of Defense. However, how did it get leaked online is still a 224 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:06.279 question that that is out there. So what Andres did was get a hold 225 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:08.039 of this German company and say, hey, guys, you know, how 226 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:14.960 did you get that video and get it online. They looked at their server, 227 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:17.720 they saw that the video was on their server and they said they don't 228 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.680 know. They asked past employees and some others, you know, why that 229 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.400 video was there or how it got there. They think just one of their 230 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.480 people downloaded it and it was just on their server because that person had downloaded 231 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.880 it. So they're not sure who downloaded it though, and how it was 232 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.480 on their servers. But they said it had nothing to do with anything they 233 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.680 were doing, so they certainly did not fake it or it's none of their 234 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.440 projects or anything like that. And we I mean, we can be pretty 235 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:47.400 confident now that we have this, you know, video out from the DoD. 236 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:51.720 So it was just interesting and it was good for Andreas to follow up 237 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:53.960 on this. And some people have got upset and said, this is ridiculous, 238 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:56.720 we know it's real, Well would you post this stuff and cast out? 239 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.920 We're not casting down, it's just you have to do your due diligence 240 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.920 that we have to find out, you know, and we still don't know 241 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:08.880 how this video got leaked in the first place. So here here's here's an 242 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.079 idea that's related to this that I wanted to talk to you both about. 243 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:17.160 It's it's the it's the whole thing about how do we how do we feel 244 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:22.440 about all of the UFO videos that are coming out of the woodwork that would 245 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:30.279 work known as YouTube. Every day the numbers increase, the claims increase that 246 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:36.079 this is the best UFO footage ever, and now there's competition between many of 247 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:40.000 the of the sites that are putting these things out there. They're suing each 248 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:45.799 other. It's like, isn't it enough? Or have we created a monster 249 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.559 here? And it will never be enough because the public just wants to see 250 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:53.480 this stuff, whether it's real or not, I don't know. Yeah, 251 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:57.319 I think it's the ladder. The public wants to see it as long as 252 00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:00.920 it gets hit, especially the and the hoaxed one. The fake ones get 253 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:06.640 the most hits, it seems. So if there's a demand, you know, 254 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.480 in our capitalist country, people are going to look to exploit that demand 255 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.160 and make some money off of it. So that's going to continue to happen. 256 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:15.400 And I think people get disappointed with me a lot because they'll send me 257 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:18.279 a picture of or a video and expect me to get excited about it. 258 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:22.960 But even if it's a great video, even if I can verify that it's 259 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:27.200 real, a video alone is not enough. You need a lot of supporting 260 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:32.240 data and info like in this DoD case, you know, at least with 261 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:34.640 this Knimitz case, we've got. That's why it's such a hard nut to 262 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:40.039 crack. And you haven't heard any debunking at least at this point. There's 263 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:41.839 been little but nothing, you know, substantial that I've seen, and the 264 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:48.279 mainstream certainly hasn't proposed any debunking, meaning like New York Times or Washington Post 265 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.119 or some of these people I've reported on it. What they've done is is 266 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:56.640 interviewed the witnesses. But the witnesses are very credible. You know. All 267 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:00.960 of this comes with a whole package of evidence, which is what you need 268 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.200 these days. With film and with video and a video by itself on YouTube 269 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:12.319 anonymously placed there, you can't really do anything with that, right Yeah. 270 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.720 I mean I remember talking to Bruce mcabe when I first started doing my show, 271 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.039 and he said, you know, the video or the photo is secondary. 272 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.720 The witnesses first, A great point. I used to get frustrated with 273 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.559 mccabee, just like I get frustrated with Mark D'Antonio now, because macabee used 274 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:36.759 to be the primary mof on photo analyst and now it's Mark and they they 275 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.640 will look at the video and analyze it and push everything else out to the 276 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.279 side. And I used to get frustrated because I'd say, well, what 277 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.680 about this witness and that witness. This is all part of the evidence. 278 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:52.279 And his point was, I'm looking at the video for what data the video 279 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.200 can give me? Can I use this video as physical evidence? Does this 280 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:02.839 data say definitively this is an unknown object, which is a very very high 281 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:06.359 bar to meet. You know, it's difficult to prove something like that, 282 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:11.279 And unfortunately this video cannot stand alone, just like the Flair video all by 283 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:15.759 itself cannot stand alone. To prove an unknown object, you need all this 284 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:19.640 supporting evidence. So they make great points. You know that that is really 285 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:25.480 important. So that gives you an idea of the value of that piece of 286 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:29.279 evidence. And just like in this Nimtz case, really the value of the 287 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:33.880 video is low compared to all the other evidence, such as you know that 288 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:38.359 the DOOD has investigated it, that you have all of these pilots, career 289 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:42.480 pilots, you know, F eighteen pilots and such who have witnessed it. 290 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:48.359 All of that is better information than the Flair video. Well you know, 291 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:51.160 yeah, and you make you just made a really good point too about how 292 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:56.279 it's no matter how good a video might look, it's not as important as 293 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:02.680 the competency of those who report. And yet I was looking through some older 294 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:06.240 accounts the other day. Hey, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to ask 295 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:10.279 you to hold that, not because I'm about to go to break. So 296 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.519 we'll be right back and Lee will tell us more about his thoughts on the 297 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:15.319 video. But we do have to do a break right now. If you're 298 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:19.279 listening on KGr, you'll hear a commercial break. Be sure to check out 299 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.640 some of these people that sponsor KGRA and keep them on the air. If 300 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:27.680 you're listening to the podcast, you'll hear a short musical interlude, and after 301 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:32.079 that we'll be right back with Martin and Lea and we'll talk about the best 302 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:36.799 stories of twenty seventeen. Stay tuned, we'll be talking to you soon. 303 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:18.640 Welcome back to Open Mind's UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, 304 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.200 and I am here with LESE. Beagle and Martin Willis, and we 305 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:26.039 were talking about, you know, one of these videos from the NIMTZ UFO 306 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:32.839 case, and Lee you were making a point about video data. But then 307 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.920 I got distracted listening to this very nice musical interlude. It was wasn't it 308 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.160 lovely? Go? Did you forget your point? I wouldn't blame you, 309 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.240 you know, I was. I was starting to say that I was looking 310 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:49.400 back at one of the most famous cases of all time, the Tehran Iran 311 00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:56.319 case from nineteen seventy six, where a couple of Jeff Pider pilots were scrambled 312 00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:00.920 because they were they were sent to go up and see what was in the 313 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:07.720 skies that was buzzing around, and both pilots reported seeing the object, and 314 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:15.319 they both reported having their instrumentation malfunctioning and their communications were malfunctioning, and when 315 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:22.000 one of the pilots attempted to fire a missile at the UFO, it wouldn't 316 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.240 fire, but he reported that the UFO fired something back at him. So 317 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:30.400 I'm thinking, well, okay, if these are reliable jet fighter pilots, 318 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.480 what do we make of this? And the thing that I was reading chimed 319 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:41.480 right in and said, both Phil Class and James Oberg, arch skeptics and 320 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:48.279 debunkers both agreed that what these pilots were chasing was the planet Jupiter. See 321 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:52.960 that's what I'm talking about. You. That's the problem. No matter how 322 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:59.200 competent or reliable an eyewitness is, especially a jet fighter pilot who should know 323 00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.839 what he's looking at. Why do we get this? Still? Why are 324 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.920 we chasing the Moon and Jupiter? I don't understand this. You know who 325 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:14.240 frustrates me the most with those type of comments is James Oberg. Because James 326 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:18.400 Oberg, I think he's great. I'm a big fan space writer, and 327 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.160 he actually reads open minds. And we'll comment occasionally, but and he is 328 00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:27.799 open to the idea. That's why he's so interested in these websites and stories. 329 00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:32.000 But you know, I don't know how he could buy into such a 330 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:37.400 silly explanation on I guess he probably has a paper he's written where he justifies 331 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.160 it. But I guess we better move on to the top stories of the 332 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:44.839 year though twenty seventeen. So let's what we'll do is like we usually do, 333 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.039 one at a time, We'll talk about a story, what we think 334 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:49.920 is one of the top stories, and then we'll all talk about it. 335 00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:52.480 But let's go ahead. You know what, Martin, We're going to start 336 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.240 with you, buddy. No, we did that last year. Well we 337 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:02.839 want to do it this year. Oh, jump In, that's okay unless 338 00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:04.640 you unless you have another visitor who's going to join us. Okay, Well, 339 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:11.519 Martin, you're you hesitated, and and now your your moments gone, 340 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:15.920 go ahead. Well, you know, I think for all of us, 341 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:21.039 one of the big stories of the year, which which just knocked everybody's socks 342 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:25.680 off, made everybody stand on their heads doing loopholes. This thing came out 343 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:33.559 in May and it involved an interesting interview on sixty Minutes with Robert Bigelow like, 344 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.559 Oh my god, did this thing go viral so fast? Uh? 345 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.799 That one, you know, he was giving a tour I think the reporter 346 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:51.240 was Lara Logan and and they were touring his Aerospace Industries factories in Las Vegas, 347 00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:53.960 and in fact, which many people don't realize, on the side of 348 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.960 one of the buildings of his company is a gigantic alien. That's his logo. 349 00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:07.519 But they were walking through and he was showing various pieces of space equipment, 350 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:15.519 spacecraft and technology that he's now working with NASA that he'll be building things 351 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:18.799 that will be either attached to the space station or maybe be used to go 352 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:22.440 to the Moon and perhaps set up something on Mars. I mean, he's 353 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.240 a guy who's got the money, who can do it. And then the 354 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:33.799 conversation changed and about the middle of the episode where she started to ask him 355 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:38.160 about UFOs and she just began it by saying, do you believe in UFOs? 356 00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:41.640 And he said, yeah, I'm absolutely convinced, and that's all there 357 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:48.440 is to it. You know, that's basically his attitude and even aliens. 358 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:49.680 He was like, you know, oh, she's like, are we going 359 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.319 to find him? And she's like, well, we don't have to go 360 00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:53.279 anywhere to find him. They're here. And she's like, do you think 361 00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:56.640 aliens are here? And he's like, yeah, I mean he puts it 362 00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:00.839 like that, like duh, which is oh funny that he is just so 363 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:04.799 certain. And then I don't give a damn what they think. Exactly, 364 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:08.119 yeah, you know, he said, he said, and he's probably true. 365 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:14.519 He said, I've spent millions and millions and millions. I've probably spent 366 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:18.720 more as an individual than anybody else in the United States has ever spent on 367 00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.519 this subject. And so when then she said, well, is it risky 368 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.680 for you to say that in public that you believe in UFOs and aliens? 369 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.039 And that's when he said, I don't give a damn. I don't care. 370 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:33.839 Well, what's funny is we know now some of that money he spent 371 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:40.160 was not his, It was the governments money. Yeah, you know, 372 00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:45.119 and he doesn't care. And he and he said that it's not going to 373 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:48.759 make any kind of a difference to people. Uh, it won't change reality 374 00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:55.119 of the reality that that he knows. And he basically said, you don't 375 00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:59.200 have to go anywhere into outer space to look for aliens. It's right under 376 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:04.960 our noses here, and so he has a really interesting point of view where 377 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:10.119 he's basically saying, I've spent my own money on this, I know what 378 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:14.680 I know, and i don't care what people believe, and I'm just gonna 379 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:18.960 spend my time putting spaceships together for NASA, you know. And there's so 380 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:22.559 much now that we have this new news behind the scenes that we could see 381 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.519 going on that he was shy about getting into all of this UFO stuff where 382 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.519 he's been shy about talking about it. In fact, this interview from what 383 00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.160 I hear, was done a year prior, and he was not happy about 384 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.279 it being held onto and then released it when it was because he's in the 385 00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:41.759 middle of these negotiations with NASA, which is really important because Trump just said 386 00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:47.759 We're going to the Moon because China and Russia are putting bases on the Moon. 387 00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:51.200 The only person who has a plan for a base on the Moon currently 388 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:55.519 that's working with NASA is Bigelow. So he might be the guy right now 389 00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:00.400 NASA works with. So and not only that, it probably gave him some 390 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:05.000 credibility when they said, well, aren't you a UFO guy? His retort, 391 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.799 it can be sure I am, but I'm working with the DD on 392 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:15.359 this project, and which adds credibility to his hunt on UFOs. So yeah, 393 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:21.279 really interesting. And the other thing about him that many people don't know, 394 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.559 and it's up to guys like you know, the three of us to 395 00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:30.440 kind of put this information out there, is that several years ago he purchased 396 00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:38.839 a ranch in Utah called the Skinwalker Ranch because the family that lived there were 397 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:46.720 having incredible paranormal experiences that just couldn't be explained easily away, and the word 398 00:32:46.759 --> 00:32:51.640 got back to Bigelow and he bought the ranch, and he set up a 399 00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:58.400 whole scientific crew to go there with equipment to photograph whatever they could photograph to 400 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:01.440 see if it was UFO based, if it was something else based. And 401 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:09.480 in fact, the very first night that he owned this ranch, our mutual 402 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:16.680 friends John Alexander decided to spend the night there alone. Yeah, because he's 403 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:22.160 he's a guy who's like a former in Vietnam, he was a former eighteen 404 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:29.359 unit commander. Nothing scares this guy and he wanted to go there to s 405 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.960 Yeah. Yeah, I got an interview with him about this, but we 406 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.480 got a lot of stories to go on too, So Okay, Well, 407 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:39.720 all I'm saying is that the connection is that that Robert Bigelow is a key 408 00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:45.039 person to watch, whether he does anything about the UFOs or not, He's 409 00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:49.200 there, always present, and he's going to be a newsmaker in twenty eighteen. 410 00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.640 I'm certain of that. But yeah, Martin, if you have any 411 00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:57.039 you know, last minute comment on that story, or if you want to 412 00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.680 move to your story, well no, just quickly. I just want to 413 00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:04.400 say that I've heard that he is not willing to give anyone any interviews about 414 00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.400 what's going on or what he had to do with a d D at this 415 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:09.119 point. Yeah. Good, I don't know if you've heard that. Yeah, 416 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:12.679 No, that's true. He's given no one, not even his good 417 00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:17.320 buddy George Napp reported out of Las Vegas, right right, Okay, your 418 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:23.440 story, Okay, Well, I I was looking through and I you're talking 419 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:27.880 about videos earlier. So I decided that I was going to try to find 420 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:31.599 what I thought was the best UFO video of the year. And you and 421 00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.440 I had talked about this, Alejandro at some point, and that that was 422 00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:40.880 back in July. I think it was July first of last year, and 423 00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:47.559 it was the title of that particular story was UFO Witnesses capture Shining Disc and 424 00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:54.039 that's on Canada Day, and that was at the Toronto waterfront, and so 425 00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:00.519 it was a couple. They were celebrating Candidate Day. As I said, 426 00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:06.920 They're on the waterfront, and all of a sudden, the man happened to 427 00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:09.920 look up and he saw something flash. Well, he took this great video. 428 00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:15.519 I think I remember us talking about Alejandro, but I think it's probably 429 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:20.400 the best video that I saw all year long. It's like a perfect disc. 430 00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:25.320 He says that he saw it actually orbiting, actually moving. You can't 431 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:30.679 really tell that from the video, at least the size is at But so 432 00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:35.079 they were watching this video and it kept I mean they were watching this disc 433 00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:37.960 and it kept going in and out, and you can see that clearly, 434 00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:43.320 like absolutely vanishes and then comes back. And you know, one of the 435 00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:49.039 best things about this is that all of a sudden they saw a black helicopter 436 00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:53.599 come and it looked like it was following it. And those darn black helicopters 437 00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:59.320 they always seem to show. I'm kind of skeptical that that helicopter was related, 438 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.880 but I really do think that this is an interesting video. It's circular 439 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.360 with a little hole in the middle, kind of like a doughnut. That's 440 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:12.239 right, which is indicative though of being very out of focus. But still 441 00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:15.079 it did have some weird movement. It is very it's a great video. 442 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:20.199 It's a fun video. And you know what, I don't think anybody really 443 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.840 felt like they figured out what it was. Yeah, one time they had 444 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:30.360 mentioned that you can hear them talking among each other and they're saying, or 445 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.039 the wife is saying, or the girlfriend is saying, I think that's uh, 446 00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:36.599 it could be a drone. And then later on she's no, way 447 00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:38.840 that was a drone, you know. But at first, oh, you 448 00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:44.880 know what the move on case I'm looking now. Luckily the mofine investigator made 449 00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:47.480 a comment on the story. I forgot about this. They concluded it was 450 00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:54.440 the iss really yeah, and it looked like that. How about that? 451 00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:58.679 So it must have been the angle of the sun hitting it, yeah, 452 00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:01.559 and going in and focus. When the camera goes in and out of focus, 453 00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:06.119 it can make some weird things too. Well, that story was a 454 00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.039 real dud. No, that's it's an interesting video, and you know, 455 00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:12.719 it's a good example how a lot of these things get figured out. But 456 00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:15.199 oh, Yeah, that's right. I mean I've always wondered, you know, 457 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:20.320 if we can find out the conclusion of these and so I guess we 458 00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:25.760 now do have that. Mm hmmm right, all right, all right, 459 00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:30.639 So my story, my turn. Okay, here's mine. This is the 460 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:36.440 first one. There's a few good stories I felt, but mine is especially 461 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:39.559 being here in Phoenix and the Phoenix Lights being such a big deal. Is 462 00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:45.719 Kurt Russell coming out this year and saying he saw the Phoenix Light. So 463 00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:49.480 part of the mythology, the mythos switch to the Phoenix Lights is that there 464 00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:55.880 was a private pilot that Witch said reported seeing the lights. So Kurt Russell's 465 00:37:55.920 --> 00:38:02.840 story is and this was in an interview on BBC. It's called The One 466 00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:07.239 Show, and he was doing an interview with Chris Pratt for Gardens of the 467 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:13.679 Galaxy Too, which was a great movie. I loved it. And so 468 00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:15.840 the you know, the British guy, he makes a big deal and he 469 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:20.239 brings out what he says is his top secret file and he's like, we 470 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:23.039 have this top secret file and he said, did you guys know that you 471 00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:28.039 know the Phoenix and Phoenix there was this big sighting that happened in the nineties 472 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.320 and there was a pilot who said that he saw him. And Kurt Russell 473 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:35.880 says, I am aware of that, and here's the tail numbers on that 474 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:39.000 aircraft. And I know that because I was that pilot. So he says 475 00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:44.000 he came home one day and he's doing some stuff and Goldie Hawn is watching 476 00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:47.599 a show on UFOs and they start talking about the Phoenix Lights and they start 477 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:52.079 talking about this pilot who had said that he had seen the UFO and he's 478 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.599 like, oh my gosh, that sounds familiar because he's like, I flew 479 00:38:55.920 --> 00:39:04.199 my son to Phoenix about that time and we reported a UFO and so he 480 00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:07.920 looked in his records, his flight logs, and sure enough it was on 481 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:10.079 that day at that time, and he's like, wow, I'm that guy. 482 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:15.800 So yeah, Kurt Russell, now and this is part of the you 483 00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:20.599 know, even at the UFO Congress last year, we were celebrating the anniversary 484 00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:25.039 twenty fifth anniversary of the Phoenix Lights and or is it twenty at twentieth anniversary, 485 00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:29.960 Yeah, and we didn't know about this, so this is new since 486 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.000 then. This was in May actually, about the same time that Bigelow did 487 00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:37.079 his interview or it was aired. Kurt Russell came out with this news. 488 00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:42.079 So that's a really cool one. I like that one. Now, Alejandro, 489 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:45.800 did he get into great detail of what he observed from the angle he 490 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.880 was at. Not really. They said they saw some mysterious lights. At 491 00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.519 first, they didn't think much of them, or at least he didn't, 492 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.920 but then they as they were flying in, they kept looking and they couldn't 493 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:59.920 figure out what they were. I think it did say they were in like 494 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.800 a V four. Yeah, he said in a V shape, that they 495 00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:07.519 were over the airport or near the airport. Uh, that they were a 496 00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:12.559 uniform in pattern. He didn't go into a lot of uh information, but 497 00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:16.159 that that's about what he said. I see. You know, one of 498 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:21.519 the things that people talk about is the enormous size of it, and that's 499 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.079 one of the things I, you know, was most curious about. Mm 500 00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:29.360 hmm, Yeah, that supposedly the thing's really cool big, and he did 501 00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:31.960 say it was large, you know, V shaped six lights that they saw. 502 00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:37.519 It was. There were so many reports I remember that that I found 503 00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:43.360 intriguing where people described and it was at night, but it was it was 504 00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:46.760 so big. They said they knew it was big because it blocked out their 505 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:52.280 their visual uh you know, of the stars above it, because it just 506 00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:54.719 it was so big that it got in the way of the stars. Yeah. 507 00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:59.119 That's that's that's a big object. Yeah. So that's a fun story, 508 00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:01.400 fun one for from from from this year, Lee at your kard. 509 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:08.559 In February, Uh, there was there was an item from Fox News, 510 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:15.639 and so I'm assuming that since it was on Fox News, our newly our 511 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:21.960 newly inaugurated President Trump probably was aware of this story because he loves Fox News. 512 00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.719 In the science section on Fox News, they had a headline that said 513 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:30.679 UFO sightings hit an all time high. According to a report, it kind 514 00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:34.280 of got buried, I guess in the news and I don't know if many 515 00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:39.119 other people besides Fox reported it. But according to this story, the data 516 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:45.320 for this story came from the National UFO Reporting Center. Isn't that our friend 517 00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:50.039 Peter Davenport. Yeah, so apparently it's it's all the work that he's done 518 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:54.079 and all the compilations he's done, and the findings came up with some news 519 00:41:54.079 --> 00:42:00.559 statistics which said that UFO was visiting Earth at an all time I'm high, 520 00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:06.199 and that the sightings are most common in the United States, and it was 521 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:13.760 put together by a doctoral student in applied cognition at a place called George Mason 522 00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:19.360 University, and he basically he wrote up his findings based on the information from 523 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:23.840 Davenport's initial data. So it's interesting, he says, the UFOs have been 524 00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:30.480 popping in into our reality, with over one hundred thousand reported sightings on record 525 00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:37.320 over the past one hundred plus years. Interesting, interesting numbers. I forgot 526 00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:39.920 about that story that that is a good one. That was a cool one. 527 00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.280 Yeah, And just to just to recap, for the year, Muffon 528 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:51.360 had a total of five six hundred and thirty reports and new Fork and that 529 00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:55.039 was up six percent. New Fork, however, was down six percent, 530 00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:59.639 which I think is kind of ironic at four thousand, six hundred and sixty 531 00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:02.519 five. And of course, as we all know, some of those reports 532 00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.159 come in from past years and people just report them, you know, right 533 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:10.559 right right. Yeah, that's a good one. That is interesting. And 534 00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:15.239 I have a follow up for that one, but it's Martin Stern. Oh 535 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.320 no, no, go ahead and follow up. We can go out a 536 00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:21.199 word. That's that's cool, Martin. You always give up your turn. 537 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:23.559 But I'll just say I'll just add to that because one of mine was. 538 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:29.119 And I give her so many props. As Cheryl Costa Hirol Costa wrote her 539 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:32.840 book, Oh Yeah, the UFO Signing's Desk Reference that came out in April, 540 00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.679 and it was funny they wrote this story because she did a lot of 541 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:43.320 work shopping around and getting attention for her book, and she did a great 542 00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:47.960 job. The New York Times, practically all of the big media had covered 543 00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.280 some of the statistics from her book. And it's cool because you know, 544 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.320 everybody, every local reporter, when you talk to them, they say, 545 00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:00.039 Okay, that's interesting, but what about local what's happening in my area? 546 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:04.480 And that's what her book answers. Everybody can look up and say, hey, 547 00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:07.960 look in my particular error area, there's this many sightings. So there 548 00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:15.960 have been so many stories throughout the years, generated not just by her book, 549 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:19.480 but her getting out there and promoting her book. And I think she's 550 00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:23.280 done a spectacular job. And it really got UFOs in the news all year 551 00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:30.159 long. That's right. And I was looking at that myself to talk about 552 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.000 that. And also she had an article come out in the New York Times. 553 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:36.719 You know, so yeah, the one we're going to talk about wasn't 554 00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:39.320 the first one this year, right, all right, your next story, 555 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:44.440 Martin. All right, So I'm just reporting this one because I think this 556 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:49.320 is a great citing nothing fantastical in any type of way, but this was 557 00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:52.480 a because the reason I like this one is because it was a very long 558 00:44:52.639 --> 00:45:00.639 lasting and unusual sighting and it was also by multiple witnesses. So this was 559 00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:08.280 in Dallas and they were watching actually multiple objects. The witness was outside walking 560 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:13.679 the dog at eleven pm, this is back in June of twenty seventeen, 561 00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:17.119 and observed a white light that looked like a star at first, and here 562 00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:22.199 I quote, I realized the light was moving back and forth east to west 563 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:27.000 very fast and appeared to be slowly moving down. The witness stated, I 564 00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:30.639 went inside and got everyone to come out. We grabbed binoculars, and you 565 00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:36.039 could see the light was attached or tethered to something large and shaped like a 566 00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:40.239 triangle. The light appeared to drag the triangle across the sky and back again, 567 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.400 but it was descending. And then as the object came closer, the 568 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:49.920 witness could see the triangle was big and black like a wing, and there 569 00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:52.480 was an attachment between it and the light, and he goes on to say 570 00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:58.480 they watched for an hour and went inside and posted on Facebook. I think 571 00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:02.000 that's kind of funny, hoping that someone may go outside themselves and take a 572 00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:06.239 look at it in their area. Instead, he got a lot of amusing 573 00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:10.119 comments. So they continue back out and was hoping other people in the neighborhood 574 00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:15.440 w wake up. But after two hours, the objects moved directly over their 575 00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:19.880 heads and they laid down the front lawn with her and sharing their binoculars, 576 00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.480 trying to see what it was. And they tried to take videos and pictures, 577 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:27.760 but all you could see was the light and not the thing being pulled 578 00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:31.800 around. At two am, two other objects appeared. Now they had different 579 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:37.679 lights. I should say that these other the first objects had like red lights 580 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:43.119 and these other ones had red and green, which of course is what you 581 00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:49.280 would think on an aircraft. Well, after the total objects of four, 582 00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:53.119 they didn't appear to be dragging anything. But they watched this thing until four 583 00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:58.719 o'clock in the morning, and they reported it to their local CBS station and 584 00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:00.880 they said they have no idea. Yeah, that was their only response. 585 00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:07.159 So the videos, no videos were included or anything. But I think that 586 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:10.960 was a really good sighting last year. Yeah, I mean that one would 587 00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.719 just anecdotal, but I guess it is interesting. Triangles, of course, 588 00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:22.679 are sponded so often, but we're running a long time lead. You can 589 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:25.480 lea why don't you name a couple if you want, and we'll just uh. 590 00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:31.199 We we had. We did this story at hof Post in March about 591 00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:39.840 how two Harvard scientists were suggesting that aliens maybe using giant radio beams to travel 592 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:47.760 through the cosmos, like using giant interstellar sales, if you will, uh. 593 00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:52.559 And I like the story because because it was like they were Harvard University 594 00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:57.360 scientists and they were saying that there are these things that are known as fast 595 00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:05.800 radio bursts or or FRBs, and they've been detected mostly in very distant galaxies, 596 00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:12.159 and the two scientists are suggesting this is evidence of how aliens may be 597 00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:17.320 traveling from one place to another, and these are radio bursts that can propel 598 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:24.760 their sales to great distances. And we've only seen maybe a handful in the 599 00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:30.480 last ten years, only maybe seventeen have been reported. But since we have 600 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:37.360 so many possible new other galaxies to look at, we can see these things 601 00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:42.079 from very distant galaxies, and they're saying that if we can see one of 602 00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:46.599 these radio bursts that's so far away, that means it's the brightest thing that 603 00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:52.199 we've ever imagined seeing because of the distances that takes for that light to get 604 00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:55.840 from here to there. We're almost out of time for this segment. OK, 605 00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:59.280 so we're going to have to go to break. But yeah, fast 606 00:48:59.400 --> 00:49:02.599 radio bursts on my list too, because these are these signals that are detected 607 00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:07.440 and the Breakthrough listen this new thing put up by this rich guy in Russia. 608 00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:12.480 They listened to a few more, and even though some were identified as 609 00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:16.920 a microwave in one of the listening posts, the others have not been explained, 610 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.559 so still a mystery. And even SETI and those conservative guys are looking 611 00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:24.760 at this one really weird. But we've got to go to break. If 612 00:49:24.760 --> 00:49:29.840 you're listening on KGRA, you're going to hear some commercials for a couple of 613 00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:32.519 minutes. If you're listening on the podcast, we'll just have a short musical 614 00:49:32.599 --> 00:50:15.960 interlude and we'll be right back. Hello and welcome back to Open MINDGUFO Radio. 615 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:20.280 I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I'm here with Lee Spiegel and 616 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:24.920 Martin Willis and real quick stories of the year. I'm gonna cheat. I'm 617 00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:29.920 gonna name a couple stories here that I thought were really good. First of 618 00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:35.400 all, Jimmy Kimmel interviews George Bush about UFOs. So that's really interesting George 619 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:37.400 Junior, and he was very elusive. He asked, did you look at 620 00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:40.960 secret UFO files? He's like maybe, he said, my daughters are really 621 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:44.440 into it. They asked me too, and he said, well, if 622 00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.960 you would you share that information with your daughters if you had some He said 623 00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:51.760 no, and he said as he said, well, now that you're out 624 00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:53.320 of office, you can do what you want, right and Buss says, 625 00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:57.920 Chue, but I'm not telling you. So it was a really interesting conversation. 626 00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:02.119 Another one which is really cool is James Fox. You know, he 627 00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:07.559 let us air some video of his interview with Fife Simington that people hadn't seen 628 00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:12.000 before, and that was really cool at the UFO Congress and we put that 629 00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:15.760 out to the news. What was interesting about this is Simington said that he 630 00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:20.159 did tell the Pentagon about this, and the Pentagon knows and they're looking into 631 00:51:20.199 --> 00:51:22.440 this stuff. So that's pretty interesting. He said they wouldn't talk to him 632 00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:27.400 about it, but he knows that they're looking into it. And then Newsweek 633 00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.639 was a lot of fun because Newsweek had a special edition out this year called 634 00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:36.199 Life Beyond Earth question Mark and you would think it would be full of science 635 00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.119 and stuff, which it was, but more actually, probably eighty percent of 636 00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:45.800 it is UFOs. And they recommended this radio show. The only podcast they 637 00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:50.000 recommended was this one. If they were aware of yours, Martin, they 638 00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:54.360 probably would have talked about yours too. But okay, and now we want 639 00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:58.840 to get to the big story, which of course is blah blah bah. 640 00:51:59.199 --> 00:52:04.960 This new group at the Pentagon was the Department of Defense was looking for UFOs. 641 00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:08.320 So let's outline this really quick. Late last year we found out that 642 00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:13.800 Tom DeLong was speaking with some through the Wiki leaks, some very high level 643 00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:17.159 people, air Force generals, people that you know work at Luckheed skunk Works, 644 00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:23.280 and John Podesta, the guy running Hillary Clinton's campaign. Because he was 645 00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:28.480 speaking to people at such high levels, we awarded him at the UFO Congress 646 00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:34.000 the UFO Researcher of the Year. Well, it made a lot of news. 647 00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:37.800 It made somewhat of a big splash when the wiki leaks had UFO stuff 648 00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:40.679 on him, and then our thing went viral and he made a ton more 649 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:45.320 news, and Tom DeLong told our people that he's going to have some big 650 00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:47.800 news coming out soon. What was weird about this is that Tom DeLong. 651 00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:51.800 It was weird that he was talking to these guys because he talks about how 652 00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:57.679 he believes aliens are bad and that we're back engineering alien technology. So moving 653 00:52:57.679 --> 00:53:00.599 along, we didn't hear anything for months. Everybody's way, when is this 654 00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:05.719 news coming? Finally in October, Tom DeLong announces this new group that he's 655 00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:09.039 putting together, a very impressive group of people, scientists, people that have 656 00:53:09.159 --> 00:53:14.000 worked in defense intelligence, some people we've never heard of, but one of 657 00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:17.280 them being this lou Elisondo. He said he worked on a UFO project in 658 00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:21.840 the DoD. That piqued my interest. I'm like, what the heck. 659 00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:24.159 I talked to Leslie Kane, I had her on the show, and she 660 00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:27.840 was like, you know, this is incredible, But it seemed like it 661 00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:30.239 didn't make any news. Little did we know behind the scenes. New York 662 00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:35.119 Times, Washington Post, Political all picked up on it, and we're working 663 00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:40.000 on stories. So finally the New York Times comes out with their story about 664 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:45.239 a month later. What was it in December actually that they came out seen 665 00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:50.440 yep, December sixteen. They write their story about Lou Alizondo, and we 666 00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:55.079 find out this project is amazing, that this project existed, that Harry Reid 667 00:53:55.119 --> 00:54:00.119 along with other senators, got this project funded all the way back into two 668 00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:05.039 thousand and what six, And then we find out that big Low was contracted 669 00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:08.920 and a lot of this you know, work went into was contracted out to 670 00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:15.719 Bigelow. Alizondo claims that they retrieved a piece of the craft, and then 671 00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:19.840 they came out with a couple videos and really talked about this knimics case. 672 00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:25.400 So I guess first ideas about it, let's start with yu LEI. Well, 673 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:31.239 the thing about the case I think that made the biggest impression on me 674 00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:36.559 was that, first of all, I thought that the video that was released 675 00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:40.599 was a little too short, and I'm I'm assuming that most people felt the 676 00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:44.599 same way. It's like, show us more. I wanted to see how 677 00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:47.599 the object left, but we were just kind of left hanging there and the 678 00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:54.039 video ended that that was a surprise to me. But the other thing that 679 00:54:54.639 --> 00:55:00.960 I think I'm correct about this. Not in any of the news items or 680 00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:07.360 news statements or quotes that were issued by the Pentagon or anyone into the Department 681 00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:14.199 of Defense. No one actually said we started this project in two thousand and 682 00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:22.119 seven because we thought there might be an extraterrestrial relationship here. All that they 683 00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:25.719 said, and it almost felt like a bit of a cover story to me, 684 00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:31.360 was well, we believed in the reliability of a lot of our jet 685 00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:37.199 fighter pilots, because why wouldn't we believe them? And there were enough reports 686 00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:40.159 so that we started to think, well, maybe the Russians or the Chinese 687 00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:46.199 have developed their own super secret technology that's more advanced than what we have. 688 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:53.360 We should start a program and investigate it and spend taxpayers twenty two million dollars 689 00:55:53.960 --> 00:56:00.280 and let's see if we can determine if this is another country's technology, and 690 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:07.000 if so, then that would be some cause for possible threat of our national 691 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:09.920 security. That was the story, that was the cover story, as I 692 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.920 put it, that they came out with. Nobody actually said, where we've 693 00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:20.079 spent five years looking into this on the possibility that could be extraterrestrials. I 694 00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:22.599 thought that was a little interesting and a lot of people didn't pick up on 695 00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:27.719 that. Well what do you think? Yeah, but I don't think they 696 00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:30.599 should have said that, because that's not what the project was. I don't 697 00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:35.920 get that impression at all that that would I don't know why they would say 698 00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:38.519 that, and it would be damaging to what they're doing to say that. 699 00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:44.320 Although there is a little bit of an implication in that Bob Bigelow is the 700 00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.000 guy that the money was given to. Bob Bigelow of course said he believed 701 00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:52.039 in aliens not too long ago, you know, not too much earlier. 702 00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:55.480 I thought it was interesting that Harry Reid said another person that inspired him to 703 00:56:55.960 --> 00:57:00.920 create this Funness project was John Glenn had told him years ago to look into 704 00:57:01.079 --> 00:57:05.480 UFO's John Glenn, of course, being the astronaut who was the first man 705 00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:08.840 to orbit the Earth, very important person. We've never heard he's been interested 706 00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:13.079 in this topic, but he said, there are some very credible reports. 707 00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:15.800 You really should look into this. It's important. So yeah, I don't 708 00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:20.159 think it's it's not about aliens. I don't know why they would say it's 709 00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:23.079 about aliens. Do you get the impression it is about aliens? Well, 710 00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:30.119 I guess when when the whole story broke. I think that that's what the 711 00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:34.719 public was taking from this, like, oh, Pentagon releasing his top secret 712 00:57:35.079 --> 00:57:37.800 UFO study group, Oh, you know, must it must be aliens. 713 00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:43.440 And when they showed the video, it actually showed an object that looked like 714 00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:46.440 it could be doing impossible things in the middle of the screen. Well, 715 00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:52.320 I can't possibly be something that's put together by another nation on Earth. It 716 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:57.360 must be aliens. I mean that's the implication that I think most people gut 717 00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:01.000 from this one. I feel that they haven't been strong enough. Leslie has 718 00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:05.639 been doing this quite a bit, but I think that you know, a 719 00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:07.519 lot of the media people try to get him to talk about aliens, and 720 00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:13.199 they shouldn't. I mean, this is about investigating UFOs. The data will 721 00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:16.039 lead us to whatever conclusion there may be, but we don't have enough. 722 00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:19.599 Like Jacques Vallet says, you know, you're good buddy, a good, 723 00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:23.480 good researcher, that we have to let the data guide us. Martin, 724 00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:29.079 what do you think, Well, I think it's interesting. I spoke with 725 00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:32.000 Stan Friedman the other day and he actually had a different take on that. 726 00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:37.920 I was actually kind of surprised. He was said, you know that he 727 00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:42.280 says, I only am accountable for myself, and he says, I was 728 00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:49.519 never afraid to say that some UFOs are alien spacecraft, and he's saying that 729 00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:53.639 he thinks that they should have not worried so much. That was, you 730 00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:59.239 know, that Stan's opinion. I actually I have a clip here of just 731 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:01.599 what I am him what he thought about the whole thing, and I'd like 732 00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:07.719 to play that now. It's fifty seconds. Yeah, here it goes well. 733 00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:12.400 I was frankly, enormously surprised. I was delighted. I thought it 734 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.519 was handled very well. I was surprised. As a matter of fact. 735 00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:22.000 I had heard Tom DeLong. I'd read his book, and I knew he 736 00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:25.320 seemed to be short on evidence a lot of story. But I think he 737 00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:31.440 handled this release extremely well, and the other guys with him, Elsondo and 738 00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:37.960 so forth. I was very impressed. It's the most impressive single UFO event 739 00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:44.519 I've seen in a very long time, and I was very pleased about it. 740 00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:46.519 I had calls about it. I mean, there were a lot of 741 00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:52.960 things that we didn't talk about, that they didn't talk about, but still 742 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:57.960 it looked like a whole new ballgame, to tell you the truth. Yeah, 743 00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:00.840 nice quote. You know, and I do you feel it is a 744 01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:04.519 brand a whole new ballgame, And I'd like to hear your thought on this 745 01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:12.519 in that it really has changed. I think public perception going into this new 746 01:00:12.679 --> 01:00:19.039 year. The media is very open to the UFO topic. And I think 747 01:00:19.159 --> 01:00:22.599 that we were already headed there. We've talked about as science was into the 748 01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:29.320 alien thing and stuff, but now they're taking it very seriously, which is 749 01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:37.159 interesting. Yes. Also, I've been corresponding with Ralph Blumenthal, who is 750 01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:40.960 one of the people that was you know, wrot broke the first story. 751 01:00:42.159 --> 01:00:49.199 And by the way, there's been over over fifty seven primetime news reports about 752 01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:53.960 after the New York Times article broke, which I think is quite amazing. 753 01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:59.039 That's what you're call going viral. Yeah, so yeah, I think it 754 01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:02.800 is a whole ball game. And you know, people outside of the UFO 755 01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:07.559 field are actually talking about this. And you know, I mentioned you al 756 01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:10.280 Hundo briefly on a phone call that I had a friend that you know, 757 01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:15.360 is far removed from the UFO field, and he says, when I asked 758 01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:16.880 him about it, he says, oh, yeah, the government spent twenty 759 01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:22.000 two million. It's kind of funny the different things that people will you know, 760 01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:24.280 you know, on that point, that's a great thing, you know, 761 01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:28.639 you bring up this twenty two million on that point. It's interesting because 762 01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:31.480 Chris Mellen was on Coast to coast of George Nap and I when this news 763 01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:36.960 came out, and he made the point that twenty two million dollars is nothing 764 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:39.800 when it comes to a government program. That's just very You can't he said, 765 01:01:39.880 --> 01:01:44.960 I think you can't change a truck tire for that amount of money. 766 01:01:45.159 --> 01:01:52.599 And then John Alexander said something similar, and then when Tyson Dyson, uh, 767 01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:58.440 what's its? Well, the scientists can't the grass dice and was on 768 01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:01.320 CNN with Don Lemon and he said the same thing. He said, really, 769 01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:06.239 twenty two million isn't much. And even though he didn't think that there 770 01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:10.119 was any proof there were aliens yet, there was some interesting evidence that they 771 01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:15.119 haven't met that bar. But he did say it's worth it that we should 772 01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:19.199 be looking into these sorts of things. It makes sense. And I'm surprised 773 01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:24.519 he actually said that. Mm hmm. I was really surprised too. But 774 01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:30.039 let me ask, did either of you find it odd or part of that 775 01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:34.239 whole ridicule factor again? A couple of days. I think it was just 776 01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:38.559 a few days after the story broke in December during this White House press conference, 777 01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:45.280 when one of the reporters stood up and asked the Secretary Huckabee about these 778 01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:50.360 reports of UFOs. There was immediate snickering in the entire room, you know. 779 01:02:51.519 --> 01:02:54.559 And I didn't know if I was pissed at that or if I just 780 01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:59.199 expected that that's what would happen. But it's like, really, is the 781 01:02:59.239 --> 01:03:04.280 media getting more interested or are they just still laughing it all away? Well, 782 01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:07.840 these are White House reporters, Yeah, and I think a lot of 783 01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:10.719 going on there. Yeah. The White House reporters are I think a little 784 01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:16.440 bit different because credibility is so high, especially right now when they're being attacked 785 01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:22.920 over everything that they say. I think they're very very careful of staying in 786 01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:28.559 this realm of what's very very substantiated or attempting to. So they're careful about 787 01:03:28.599 --> 01:03:31.039 what they talk about or get into because they can be used against them. 788 01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:36.400 And you know, as you know, Lee, you're looking for substantiated evidence 789 01:03:36.440 --> 01:03:39.559 when you're writing about this stuff, and those guys probably don't know much about 790 01:03:39.559 --> 01:03:45.880 the story or that there is some credible information there. But what's interesting about 791 01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:49.519 that is that the White House has made no comment and we really haven't heard 792 01:03:49.599 --> 01:03:52.760 much from the DoD as far as official comments, and there's a lot of 793 01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:55.679 conspiracies and things going out there. Again, I like to use the data 794 01:03:55.719 --> 01:04:00.320 that we have, but it seems a were caught off that they have. 795 01:04:00.440 --> 01:04:05.320 Not the White House nor the DoD have really figured out how to respond yet. 796 01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:09.599 Maybe they're hoping this story goes away, but I don't think it is. 797 01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:13.840 Yeah, I don't know. If you both remember, you know, 798 01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:18.039 when Hillary Clinton was on the campaign trail last year, you know, and 799 01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:23.679 she took every opportunity to say, if you elect me president, I'm going 800 01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:30.559 to release those classified documents, and not once did any of that come up 801 01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:34.440 in any of the debates. And I was astonished by that. Yeah, 802 01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:39.440 I'm surprised too. Getting back earlier, I was talking about Ralph Blumenthal, 803 01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:45.719 and when I was corresponding with him this morning, he said that he's not 804 01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:48.800 making you know, he's not going to be on the media any type of 805 01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:54.519 media for a while. And then at the end he says, because we 806 01:04:54.559 --> 01:05:00.159 have some more reporting to do, right So that's pretty exciting. And as 807 01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:02.039 for what's coming up, which is really important. So luckily I'm going to 808 01:05:02.119 --> 01:05:05.119 have Leslie on in the next week or two whenever she gets, you know, 809 01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:09.039 whenever she has a moment. She said, I'll be the first at 810 01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:13.559 least UFO person she talks to. It's frustrating that we get segregated into this 811 01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:16.360 UFO realm thing. Yes, but there is an issue there. You're right, 812 01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:20.480 yeah, and it's it's wrong. I mean, it's frustrating because you 813 01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:24.840 know, this is you should be speaking to the people who are going to 814 01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:27.599 be the ones who are going to be supporting you, I feel. But 815 01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:30.760 anyway, there's a couple of things. First of all, we need to 816 01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:33.280 get that third video. Supposedly there's a third video, so we know that 817 01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:38.159 news is coming. Not only that, people like Robert Powell were told that 818 01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:42.360 government didn't have any information on this Knimtz case. Now that this has come 819 01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:45.000 out and you know, Lou shared all that information, now they're saying they 820 01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:50.159 do have information that they are going to share. So and no doubt people 821 01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:55.920 are asking about the program and a lot of information and putting in foyer requests. 822 01:05:55.920 --> 01:06:00.079 So we're going to receive all of that information coming up here. One 823 01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:03.559 thing also is where did these videos come from? How did he get permissioned 824 01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:08.760 to release these videos? And we need more about those videos. The Washington 825 01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:13.360 Post I did a story an interview with the Sun about this because they were 826 01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:16.639 told that there was some confusion about these videos and that Defense Intelligence did not 827 01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:23.119 release any videos. And The Washington Post wrote kind of that Lou Elizondo had 828 01:06:24.280 --> 01:06:28.840 released these videos under a bit of a false pretense, that the videos were 829 01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:33.719 released for educational purposes and safety purposes, not to show that there was a 830 01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:38.880 UFO program, which he did he used them for. But I was told 831 01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:43.840 and the Sun, Fox News picked up that story in some other places, 832 01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:46.639 and then I got some feedback from the group, and I can't reveal a 833 01:06:46.639 --> 01:06:53.519 whole lot that that was false, that the Washington what they wrote was false. 834 01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:57.400 If that's true, that's a huge mistake and it means a Washington Posts 835 01:06:57.400 --> 01:07:00.920 we can't trust everything that they wrote in their story. The best piece of 836 01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:04.920 I guess the writing we have is from the New York Times, and then 837 01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:12.360 we have these personal interviews with Lou and Leslie and witnesses. So there's a 838 01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:18.880 lot more to come, that's right. The David fraverer, the commander that 839 01:07:19.079 --> 01:07:25.119 was was flying, that was the witness. I'm not sure if either one 840 01:07:25.159 --> 01:07:30.159 of you checked out his most recent interview. He gets really into detail what 841 01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:34.119 happened on the limits. Mm hmm. Either one watch that. I don't 842 01:07:34.119 --> 01:07:39.000 know if I've seen the most recent, but I've seen several of his interviews 843 01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:43.199 in the last couple of weeks. Yeah. The one part I'd like to 844 01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:47.480 just briefly talk about is and I'm glad that there's not a lot of debunking 845 01:07:47.599 --> 01:07:53.119 out there. It's because you'd almost expect it, you know. I know 846 01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:58.159 James Oberg you talked about him earlier. I watched a new segment he was 847 01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:02.639 on and he basically is saying, you know, it was he was basically 848 01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:08.960 saying negative things about it, saying it's very similar to you know, Leslie 849 01:08:09.039 --> 01:08:13.440 Kane's Chilean you know UFO and that ended up being a you know, a 850 01:08:13.559 --> 01:08:16.520 jet moving away, and he says, this video is so similar. And 851 01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:21.239 you know what, he's wrong about that because that video, the aircraft was 852 01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:26.560 I believe, fifty miles away and this is a total different ballgame. M 853 01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:30.159 h And not only that, the witness testimony, money we have is way 854 01:08:30.199 --> 01:08:33.760 different in this instance where you have so many witnesses of the entire Nimtz group. 855 01:08:34.199 --> 01:08:39.000 Another interesting thing is that, you know, there's there's this Facebook site 856 01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:43.600 and we posted that Open Mind's UFO News the group on Facebook. One of 857 01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:46.600 our admins, Finn, had found it. There's this Facebook group for the 858 01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:50.000 Pennsylvania, one of the ships in the Knimets group, and they were one 859 01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:56.439 of them as it. Yeah, and there are people on board and there 860 01:08:56.560 --> 01:09:00.399 it's their discussion. It's people who had been you know, stationed on that 861 01:09:00.479 --> 01:09:03.439 ship, and a lot of them are talking about, oh I remember when 862 01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:09.079 that happened. That was really incredible, and they're talking, they're conversing amongst 863 01:09:09.079 --> 01:09:14.680 themselves about witnessing this thing. So there were so many witnesses and the whole 864 01:09:14.720 --> 01:09:18.119 idea of this tictac ufo. Robert Powell when he investigated it, they said 865 01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:21.319 they told him they were surprised because they asked one of the navy guys about 866 01:09:21.319 --> 01:09:25.439 this and he said, oh, the tictac ufo, Yeah, I know 867 01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:28.920 all about that, and so it is a big deal. It seems like 868 01:09:29.239 --> 01:09:33.439 at least among the people involved and others in the navy. That's right. 869 01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:38.840 Yeah, and I. The last time I had Robert Powell on I had 870 01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:44.399 he he alerted me saying, have you seen that comment under the YouTube video 871 01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:46.600 of our show? And I said no, And it's actually there's a witness, 872 01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:55.560 a Navy pilot that supposedly he's following up with. That should be interesting 873 01:09:55.600 --> 01:09:58.720 if there's more, you know, more people coming out and talking about it. 874 01:09:58.920 --> 01:10:01.479 Yeah, pretty cool stuff. Well we're out of time. Last ye. 875 01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:06.039 Yes, I would like to say, because it hasn't been brought up 876 01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:11.359 yet and you've both been mentioning Robert Powell, I would like people to know 877 01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:15.560 about something that I believe is going to be important with all the things we're 878 01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:23.960 talking about. It's a new organization that our friend Alejandro Rojas is primarily responsible 879 01:10:23.960 --> 01:10:29.479 for putting together. It's called the Scientific Coalition for Ufology. And I would 880 01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:32.000 like you, Alejandro to tell us about that. Yeah, I mean I'm 881 01:10:32.039 --> 01:10:35.560 a part of the group. So essentially, these are the guys that got 882 01:10:35.560 --> 01:10:42.680 together to research this Puerto Rico case from Aguadilla, Robert Powell and some others 883 01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:49.640 Morgan Biel, Larry Kate, Rich Hoffman, Carl Paulson. Those are the 884 01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:56.000 main group and what they decided to do is kind of spin off because they 885 01:10:56.000 --> 01:11:00.600 wanted to do some more hard science and more serious, careful, credible investigation. 886 01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:04.520 So they've kind of spun off from move On to create this, to 887 01:11:05.079 --> 01:11:09.920 have this group grow bigger and to do more. And it is exciting because 888 01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:12.479 they've got a lot of great people involved, a lot of scientists. You 889 01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:17.119 can go to their website SUU online to look for it, but just put 890 01:11:17.199 --> 01:11:21.039 in like seu UFOs and you'll find it. But yeah, it's a great 891 01:11:21.039 --> 01:11:24.479 group and I'm excited for what they're going to do in the future because these 892 01:11:24.520 --> 01:11:29.960 are all people who are hard workers. Every day they're discussing and looking into 893 01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:33.399 stuff. So this case, among others, are going to be some really 894 01:11:33.399 --> 01:11:38.159 cool things that they'll be working on. And Lee, you've joined us to 895 01:11:38.439 --> 01:11:41.960 help with media stuff. So yeah, I think this is going to be 896 01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:45.319 great. Great, I'm glad. I'm glad you mentioned it, all right, 897 01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:48.159 And Martin, you have any last thoughts. No, I thought it 898 01:11:48.239 --> 01:11:53.760 was a very interesting year at the end of the year especially, and I'm 899 01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:58.680 really really excited to see what happens in twenty eighteen. Yeah, and it's 900 01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:00.920 been fun today. Yeah, Yeah, a game changing year. I mean 901 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:06.760 we have not had the government admit they're investigating UFOs and that they've discovered unknowns 902 01:12:06.880 --> 01:12:12.039 for since nineteen sixty nine. A very big deal. So those of us 903 01:12:12.039 --> 01:12:15.359 who have been saying, yes, the government is looking into this even though 904 01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:18.479 they say they're not and kind of getting laughed at, it's been validated that 905 01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:24.199 indeed. They have so really great year. And thank you both for joining 906 01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:27.199 me. Oh my gosh, just time flies. It feels like a few 907 01:12:27.279 --> 01:12:30.319 seconds instead of a whole hour. So well, thank you, thank you 908 01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:33.720 both. Yep, thank you guys. Thank you so much to Martin Willis 909 01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:38.920 and Lee Spiegel Verbing on the show. They are awesome. Don't forget you 910 01:12:38.960 --> 01:12:43.520 can catch Martin Willis on podcast UFO. Lee has a lot of projects in 911 01:12:43.720 --> 01:12:47.159 the pipeline, some cool stuff. Right now he's working on James Fox's latest 912 01:12:47.199 --> 01:12:51.039 documentary, so that's going to be really exciting. He did Out of the 913 01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:55.399 Blue and I know what I saw, two of the best documentaries out there, 914 01:12:55.439 --> 01:12:58.680 so very cool stuff. Also, I want to tell you about the 915 01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:01.239 UFO Congress. It is getting really close. It's only a month away, 916 01:13:01.319 --> 01:13:05.239 and we've got some really cool stuff. Go to Ufocongress dot com to see 917 01:13:05.279 --> 01:13:09.920 some of the speakers, and we have some surprises in store that we still 918 01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:13.399 haven't let people know about because you know, we've got to get the latest 919 01:13:13.439 --> 01:13:18.119 news integrated into the conference somehow, and with that being so hectic, of 920 01:13:18.159 --> 01:13:21.119 course, it's going to be a little bit difficult for us to get all 921 01:13:21.119 --> 01:13:26.880 those final arrangements, but it will be exciting. So go to ufocongress dot 922 01:13:26.920 --> 01:13:31.239 com and register right away. Otherwise, thank you to Caleb Hanks for doing 923 01:13:31.279 --> 01:13:35.680 the open and close music, and thank you. Oh, by the way, 924 01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:39.399 I should mention Openminds dot tv of course, is where you're going to 925 01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:44.279 find all that news that you heard throughout the show, so Openminds dot tv. 926 01:13:44.479 --> 01:13:47.479 We get really busy this time of year, so there's less stories than 927 01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:50.520 usual, but we'll have more up. In fact, I'm going to write 928 01:13:50.560 --> 01:13:55.199 something. I'll have something up by the time this comes out, So lots 929 01:13:55.239 --> 01:13:58.479 of really cool stuff and some more cool stuff on the horizon. You'll have 930 01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:00.000 to wait for the future to see that. But finally, I want to 931 01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:59.319 thank you all for listening. Until next time, Audios, move chatos.