1 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:21,199 What is up, fellow thermonuclear A Effers. I am Dampa Valley coming at 2 00:00:21,199 --> 00:00:26,960 you with Grant Hughes, diving back into that off season grade grind with two 3 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,280 divisions that could become wildly outdated for a few teams if any if certain transactions 4 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,880 go down, but we press on anyway. We're gonna we'll have the Atlantic 5 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,560 division for you today. Pacific we'll be up the day after. But we 6 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,439 asked the question that we care about most first, Grant, how how are 7 00:00:43,439 --> 00:00:47,600 you doing? It's been more than three days since we spoke face to face, 8 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,520 which at this point has become quite quite a while for us. Yeah, 9 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,759 I had some withdrawals. I won't I won't. I won't sugarcoat it. 10 00:00:54,679 --> 00:00:58,920 It was difficult. I am excited to do because we are I don't 11 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,280 know if the listeners know we are are a pair of coastal elites. We 12 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,920 are on opposite coasts, but that's you know, let's not run from who 13 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,239 we are. So I like doing the Atlantic and the Pacific together because it's 14 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,439 just you saved the best for last sorry flyover states. That's that's just what 15 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,200 we believe. We're just coastal elites. I will say though, like this 16 00:01:17,239 --> 00:01:21,280 time it's not for me because I almost don't want to do the Atlantic because 17 00:01:21,719 --> 00:01:25,879 like there's the Nets, there's the Knicks, and there's the Raptors, and 18 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:27,959 between those three teams, like even the Sixers have been mentioned in these Durant 19 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,480 sweepstakes, and the Knicks are involved with Donovan Mitchell. I'm just like this 20 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,799 is also pointless because those would be such a big part of those grades. 21 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,920 But look, we waited until late August, Like once you get to September, 22 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,120 it's just that's on them for not making the moves already, right, 23 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,079 Yeah, no, I agree. I mean the odds are that at least 24 00:01:46,079 --> 00:01:49,959 two of these Atlantic Division teams will just be completely different. And I remember 25 00:01:49,319 --> 00:01:53,599 back in July when for bleacher Report I did offseason grades basically right after free 26 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,719 agency was mostly calming down. I said something on the net section of like 27 00:01:57,959 --> 00:02:02,319 let's forget about Kevin and Kyrie Irving for now, and all everybody commented like, 28 00:02:02,359 --> 00:02:05,480 what do you mean, Well, what do you want me to do? 29 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,039 I'm not going to give it incomplete, so let's just what is how 30 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,759 how much does T J. Warren matter? Let's talk about that. So 31 00:02:12,879 --> 00:02:15,080 yeah, we all we all agree we all understand like this is we're just 32 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:20,120 doing this because we have to. But it's gonna change most likely, right, 33 00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:23,080 And look, we haven't marked down this year. I've recorded our grades 34 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:24,800 and marked down the dates, so if we do go back next year to 35 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,520 see what we fucked up, like, we'll know what happened thereafter. And 36 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,599 so the criteria very quickly is it's what happened so far, which is very 37 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:37,599 important for this division in the Atlantic Division. And we're grading the organizations as 38 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,560 a whole. And just finally, like a C is a passing grade, 39 00:02:40,719 --> 00:02:44,960 like this is not. We're not ethering them by giving them season C minuses. 40 00:02:45,199 --> 00:02:47,400 So if you're going to be one of the commenters or listeners that want 41 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,719 to see a had someone quibbling with me because I didn't give like Memphis an 42 00:02:51,719 --> 00:02:54,639 A plus plus plot. It was just it was something ridiculous. That's not 43 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:59,680 how this works. So that's the criteria I will be putting up for people 44 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,280 that are watching on YouTube, and I'll do it right now, or at 45 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,639 least I'll go to where we need to be for it. The transactions up 46 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,199 on the screen for a little bit, since they're being complaints about me talking 47 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,840 too fast. Imagine that about me Grant talking too fast. People don't know 48 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:15,280 what they're talking about. So I'll put it up on the screen. We 49 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,560 begin with the Boston Celtics, and you're getting a peak behind the curtain with 50 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,879 all my typos or misspellings. Their notable moves. They traded Daniel Tis, 51 00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:25,280 who was two years and seventeen point eight million dollars guaranteed left on his deal, 52 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:30,400 plus a third year team option. They traded him Aaron Ni Smith, 53 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:35,159 Malik fitz Nick Stowskis, and Juwan Morgan and a twenty twenty three first round 54 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:39,599 or top twelve protected to the Pacers for Malcolm Brogden, a move that was 55 00:03:39,919 --> 00:03:44,080 met with almost universal approval. They signed Aniela Gallan already with a two year 56 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,159 at thirteen point three million dollars deal, the full miniml He has a player 57 00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:51,400 option on that second season. They signed Luke Cornette, the Real Unicorn, 58 00:03:51,479 --> 00:03:54,159 to a two year, four point six million dollars deal, one million dollars 59 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:58,599 guarantees on opening night, fully guarantees on July tenth. The second year is 60 00:03:58,639 --> 00:04:01,400 non guaranteed. They Sam Howser to a three year, five point seven million 61 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,919 dollar deal, team option on that final season, and they signed JD. 62 00:04:05,039 --> 00:04:09,560 Davidson to a two way contract, and they signed FIANDU Cavin Gelly to a 63 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,879 two way contract. No notable exits aside from the trades that we mentioned, 64 00:04:13,879 --> 00:04:18,160 and if you care, malif Fits and Nickstaskus and Joan Morgan were in fact 65 00:04:18,199 --> 00:04:24,120 waived by the Pacers. So Grant, what grade did you give the Celtics. 66 00:04:24,879 --> 00:04:30,279 This is an a for me I as I try to think of, 67 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:32,360 you know, what am I overlooking or what it's it's just like not that 68 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:38,040 complicated to me because the way I frame Boston's offseason is they added Brogden and 69 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,079 Gallinari, and really the only thing of consequence that you know, in terms 70 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,720 of if we assume this is again a Finals contender, which I think that's 71 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:48,480 safe to say, the only thing they gave up the really matters or was 72 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,639 going to factor into that at all, is is Daniel Tie. Like you 73 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,920 know, that twenty three first rounder I don't feel like is super valuable. 74 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,959 It's not going to be a high pick. So getting two rotation guys, 75 00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:05,439 particularly getting another playmaking guard that will help keep the ball moving in Brogden, 76 00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:10,800 getting some more shooting in Gallinari, you know, we could. I don't 77 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,680 know how how nuanced or how deep you want to go on this, but 78 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,279 like, it's just two rotation guys that could definitely start for you in a 79 00:05:16,319 --> 00:05:21,040 pinch in the event of injuries, and guys that I can envision being part 80 00:05:21,079 --> 00:05:27,000 of the rotation in a final series. So having gotten those two guys and 81 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,319 not really given up a ton downside, wrists are there, but you know, 82 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,959 with Brogden's health and Gallinari's defense. But yeah, it's pretty hard for 83 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:42,800 me to really nitpick here because Boston was really good and improved without sacrificing anything 84 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,240 that I view as as significant. Yeah, I think, so what did 85 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,800 you end up giving them? It's just a flatt a. Yeah, I 86 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,319 give him a flat a as well. I don't know what there's not to 87 00:05:50,439 --> 00:05:55,920 like about their off season unless you think that Aarnie Smith was good to blossom 88 00:05:55,959 --> 00:06:00,319 into a star somehow. And I just you know, even if you think 89 00:06:00,319 --> 00:06:02,959 that were they really gonna pay everybody if you thought like Langford dating back to 90 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,800 the Derek White trade was going to pan out and the twenty twenty three first 91 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:11,240 is just even if they regress from how they finished towards the end of last 92 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,879 season. Let's just not like a huge opportunity costs to give up. If 93 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:16,959 Malcolm Brogden stays healthy, that money is not unreasonable. But I get it 94 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,680 from the very quickly the Pacers perspective of let's just you know, we have 95 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,079 Haliburton, we have d art Day, we have Ben Mick Math and let's 96 00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:26,879 get rid of brog didn't get off that long term money and pick up a 97 00:06:26,879 --> 00:06:29,480 first round pick in the process. That's the deal that makes sense for both 98 00:06:29,519 --> 00:06:31,639 sides. And I do think between Brogden and Danila Gallinari, I don't know 99 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:36,360 if they dress address a lot of what sort of ailed them offensively in the 100 00:06:36,439 --> 00:06:41,279 NBA Finals. But like when gallows healthy, I know he's slower, but 101 00:06:41,319 --> 00:06:44,560 he can get to the foul line and create and hit some tough jumpers more 102 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,279 so than Malcolm Brogden ken and I think that could really matter for them. 103 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,680 And just I like the fact that they were willing to use them INIMLI. 104 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,319 This wasn't a team that shot and they shouldn't have just because they made the 105 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,839 freaking NBA Finals. I honestly don't know what you wouldn't like about this offseason 106 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,920 unless you didn't think that they should have gone after Brogden. I did wonder 107 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,000 after the Kevin Durant trade demand came down and you look at the Brogden deal, 108 00:07:06,519 --> 00:07:11,879 was it almost an anticipation of, Oh, would they dangle Jalen Brown 109 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,000 plus Marcus Smart or Derek White and other stuff for Kevin Durant. And we've 110 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,000 since heard that they have done that Jalen Brown and Derek White, and I 111 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,920 think a one first round pick is what Sean's reported. What do you make 112 00:07:21,959 --> 00:07:25,800 of all that? Not trying to factor in like, oh, how does 113 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,600 their off season grade change if they had Kevin Durant, but just in general, 114 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,720 would that like do you like that idea for their team? Or do 115 00:07:31,759 --> 00:07:34,439 you think it's sort of too much of a consolidation for a team that was 116 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:39,279 so close already? You know, like it depends on what day you catch 117 00:07:39,319 --> 00:07:44,439 me on what my feelings are about, you know, should this team go 118 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,600 for Durant and pay what it's gonna cost. I do think maybe, like 119 00:07:47,279 --> 00:07:50,720 I could see how the Brogden move could have been sort of as part of 120 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,920 an anticipatory plan that Durant's coming. But I wonder if just having that extra 121 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,800 first round picked to move would have mattered more. It just in just in 122 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,519 getting him let alone, you know, leaving aside the fit and how things 123 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:07,360 might work, Uh once he's on the roster. I just think some of 124 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:11,879 these packages now I get we're recording this on Monday, that you're seeing that 125 00:08:11,879 --> 00:08:13,879 that just isn't enough for Brooklyn. You're you know, seeing things with like 126 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:18,639 five first rounders and they you know, the the old line still is out 127 00:08:18,639 --> 00:08:22,279 there if they want an all star player, another really good player, a 128 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:28,519 bunch of picks. Increasingly, I'm I'm taking the stance that like just to 129 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,560 use Boston because that's the team we're talking about. I don't think I want 130 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,000 to pay what it's going to cost to get Durant, and like, I 131 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,320 don't think I want to pay anything close to it. Yeah, maybe he 132 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,519 puts them over the top, but maybe he's thirty four and maybe like guess 133 00:08:41,519 --> 00:08:43,240 what the you know, the he might not be happy there and that might 134 00:08:43,279 --> 00:08:48,799 not go great. I just he's gonna miss games. And Boston's a special 135 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,919 case because you know, they had so much success last year and figure to 136 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:56,120 improve just based on the youth of the roster and guys getting into you know, 137 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,080 real prime prime years, but just more generally, I'm getting cooler and 138 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,759 cooler on wanting Durant for what it seems like it's gonna cost on it just 139 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:11,000 anywhere. I think I'm kind of with you, and it changes unless like 140 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,039 if the nets lower, they're asking price to decide that, Okay, we're 141 00:09:15,039 --> 00:09:16,360 going to rebuild, and so they're not trying to get an all star end 142 00:09:16,399 --> 00:09:20,320 picks. They're willing to accept that Picks package for Boston specifically, though, 143 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,399 like I don't like it in general, Like if the cost just becomes Jalon 144 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,679 Brown and then another salary straight up, it just I don't know that Kevin 145 00:09:28,759 --> 00:09:31,240 Durant, yes, he I would say he elevates your window compared to Jalon 146 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:35,320 Brown just because of what he does offensively, but for how long? And 147 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,679 I know that title windows can be gone in a flash, and Boston with 148 00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:41,440 the Jaalen Brown Jason Tatum core specifically feels like it's had two or three different 149 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,679 title windows already, unless Jalen Brown is indicated, because we know he's not 150 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,879 going to extend, since that number is just not going to get him anywhere 151 00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:52,279 near his max off one hundred and twenty percent unless he's communicated that he doesn't 152 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,559 want to be there. I find it if I'm Boston hard to make this 153 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,519 deal, and I honestly like especially if you're throwing other stuff on top of 154 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,000 that, and it's not just other stuff, because like the next salary you 155 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,200 send out is going to be a good player. Like there's no just bad 156 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:13,120 contract on this team right now. Yeah, I think Boston, you know, 157 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,279 we both gave him an a for what they did, so I think 158 00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:18,279 inherent in that is I think we'd both like to see what this team looks 159 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,480 like for a full year. Like so that just just from that perspective too, 160 00:10:22,519 --> 00:10:26,519 like let's not let's not just go superstar hunting and hope that it works. 161 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,799 I think they're They've planned deliberately, made a lot of smart moves, 162 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,399 uh, you know, big and small, and like, I just want 163 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,679 to see this Boston roster, uh, this newly you know, deeper Boston 164 00:10:35,759 --> 00:10:39,440 roster. Uh, get toward you know, you know, at least conference 165 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,799 finals and then maybe back to the finals and see what they can do. 166 00:10:43,799 --> 00:10:46,440 Very quickly though, if they made the trade, let's say it's Derek Hye 167 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,759 Jalen Brown in one first round pick. Would that higher or lower year off 168 00:10:48,799 --> 00:10:56,879 season grade or leave it lateral? Oh, that's a good question. I 169 00:10:56,879 --> 00:11:00,200 don't know if it would change it, honestly, which is weird. But 170 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,720 like for that package, I don't know. I don't know. I'd have 171 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,960 to really think about it some more. I don't think it would change it 172 00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:11,159 significantly. It might go down, honestly, because I if I say it's 173 00:11:11,159 --> 00:11:13,759 going up, I just argue I'm arguing against myself, just having said I 174 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,039 kind of like this Boston roster and I want to see what it does. 175 00:11:18,159 --> 00:11:20,919 Yeah, I think I would leave it the same, just because you are 176 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,960 probably a better team for next season and maybe the one after. But the 177 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:28,639 combustibility factor feels where it's Kevin Durant, it's just man, that's just Jaalen 178 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,159 Brown is so good, so young, and you it does feel like you're 179 00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:37,960 inherently shortening your window. So I think, let's you just continue using a 180 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,519 mixed house analogies. I think your ceilings higher, but your window is narrower 181 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,360 so and your floor is lower, so we're really messing with this house. 182 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,320 But yeah, I think straight. As for Boston, that was an easy 183 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,759 one. We move on to the next team who is not as easy, 184 00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:58,399 and there's is a grade that is going to change, I would imagine one 185 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,519 way or the other. But the Nets acquired Royce Oneal from the Jazz. 186 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,120 They sent him into the They acquired excuse me, Royce O'Neil into the Harden 187 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,279 traded player exception. They gave up a twenty three first round pick. It's 188 00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:11,159 going to be the worst of Houston, Philly or Brooklyn's next season. They 189 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,200 declined Kessler Edwards's team option, then signed him to a two year, three 190 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,480 point six million dollars deal with a team option on that final season. They 191 00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:22,679 signed Nick Claxton to a two year seventeen point three million dollar deal with two 192 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,039 point eight million dollars of unlikely incentives baked in. They signed t J. 193 00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:28,480 Warren to a one year at minimum deal. Patty Mills opted out and resigned 194 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,639 on a two year thirteen point three million dollar deal. There's one point two 195 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,559 million of unlikely incentives baked in there. They signed Edmund Sumner to a two 196 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,639 year four point two million dollar deal that fully guarantees on January tenth, and 197 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,960 it's non guaranteed in year two. And they signed Ulondius Williams to a two 198 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,639 way contract. Notable exits for this team include Andre Drummond signing with the Bulls, 199 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,320 draw go On Dragas also signing with the Bulls, and David Duke Junior, 200 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:58,039 and in parenthetical is what the fuck Remaintan's unsigned along with LaMarcus Aldridge and 201 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:03,000 Blake Griffin. It has to be noted that the Nets also Kyrie Irving picked 202 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,360 up his player option. They didn't agree to an extension, so that is 203 00:13:05,399 --> 00:13:07,960 here. And they have Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, but those two were 204 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,720 forever linked to trade rumors, and there's all this stuff going around about Shawn 205 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:16,000 Marx and Steve Nash. I have no idea or had no idea how to 206 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,480 grade this team to this point. And do you also, I'm curious, 207 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,120 even before you give us your grade, did you even cake in the reality 208 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:26,759 of Okay, even if we're just basing it on the move so far, 209 00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:31,679 organizationally, the Nets are on fucking fire. That is the hardest. I 210 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,120 mean, there's a million hard parts about grading this team. And when I 211 00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:39,639 did this in July, this was pre ultimatum from Kevin Durant, obviously, 212 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,039 like the idea that he was going to be moved, and Kyrie too was 213 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:48,440 out there, but there wasn't the it's Nash and Marks or me, which, 214 00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:52,600 like you said, now the organization is very much on fire. So 215 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:56,240 I was trying to grade just on what the nets had done, and that 216 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:03,039 was easier because really shitn't hadn't hit the fan completely yet, and I had 217 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,799 a B minus. Then I think I have to downgrade. Now, I'm 218 00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:11,039 just gonna go a flat sea and so I'll start just with the basics, 219 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:16,279 leave Durant and Irving out of it and all that stuff. I think their 220 00:14:16,279 --> 00:14:20,039 moves in general were okay. They're like real hits, like Warren on the 221 00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:22,480 minimum. We've you know, talked about where was everybody else on TJ Warren, 222 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:28,399 you know, several other other for other teams. I think Claxton is 223 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,399 fine at that number. I think Mills I'm kind of biased. I've always 224 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,879 liked Patty Mills. I'm fine with him at that number. The O'Neill trade 225 00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:39,759 didn't make sense to me. But then again, like if you think you 226 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:43,360 might have Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant back, and if you think Ben Simmons 227 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,759 might be healthy, and if you think you're gonna have a coach and a 228 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,519 lead executive when the season starts, then Royce O'Neil makes more sense than having 229 00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:54,679 a first round pick. So even that is difficult to sort of parse because 230 00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:56,919 we don't really know what this team's like. This team could tank, like 231 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,759 there's a scenario where it trades everything at tanks and has like a quick flip 232 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:05,080 rebuild next year. I don't know. But if there's also a chance they 233 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,440 try to make the finals, if somehow they get you know, enough talent 234 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,159 back, and then Royce O'Neil matters. So I'm just gonna go see because 235 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:18,639 I don't know what to do with the Durant and Irving stuff and the general 236 00:15:18,679 --> 00:15:22,759 palace intrigue. I would say, though I don't know if we I think 237 00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:26,120 we maybe diverge on this point a little bit. I'll be curious what you 238 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,639 think. I think. I'm good with the way that Joe Si and management 239 00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:35,200 have handled this. I'm good with like asking for the world for Durant. 240 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:41,879 I'm good with not just trading Irving for nothing. I'm good with them exercising 241 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:46,480 what little leverage they have over these star players. What I'm not good with 242 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:50,600 is what happened years ago when the Nets decided that it was a good idea 243 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:54,879 to commit to Irving, Like that's what you should have seen this coming situation. 244 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,720 But at the same time, like, I mean, are you going 245 00:15:56,759 --> 00:16:00,320 to say no if you go back and do it again if they gets you, 246 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,360 Kevin Durant, I don't know. It's just it's a mess. I'll 247 00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:07,399 be glad when it's over because I feel like this is a saga that has 248 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:10,600 gone on for a long time and I still don't have a handle on it, 249 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:15,120 and that makes me uncomfortable. I don't so Yeah, Like I said, 250 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:17,799 this one was tough. I gave them a D plus. Though I 251 00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:22,039 liked the Nick Claxton contract. I like bringing back Kessler Edwards. I think 252 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,200 that was obviously a no brainer for them. But what we need to the 253 00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:30,559 Royce O'Neil deal, I'm kind of neutral on. I guess the Nets don't 254 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,159 have enough good defenders on this team. I mean, Ben Simmons is there 255 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,360 to where his role. I do think change is a great deal and are 256 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,159 we now too far gone on Royce O'Neill because he like had to be all 257 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,799 everything to the Jazz and just couldn't do it anymore, like I just you 258 00:16:45,799 --> 00:16:48,679 know, so I'm not sure what to make of that. The other thing 259 00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:51,639 is just like I agree with you that I think the Nets are smart to 260 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,559 not acquiesced to everything these Stars are doing, but you already did, right, 261 00:16:56,679 --> 00:17:02,320 and then to pivot now seems like self or actually it seems futile, 262 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:03,480 And I don't know what. I also have not liked the way that the 263 00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:07,720 leaks have come out, where it's very clearly in certain things like the Nets 264 00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:11,559 trying to frame it as like there it's like them against the Stars at this 265 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:15,119 point, and no, you gave Kyrie and Kad this agency from day one, 266 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,920 and to pivot out of it without a concrete plan or being prepared to 267 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,400 suffer the consequences. My grade will change if they get a lot for these 268 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,799 guys or specifically Kevin Durant via trade, but right now, the fact that 269 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,799 they haven't traded them. I understand Kevin duran has four years left of his 270 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:33,759 contract. You don't trade him or Kyrie Irving just just because at the same 271 00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:37,880 time, like to go into training camp with this looming over your head is 272 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,559 also a disaster and now you just like you failed to draw a line time 273 00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:45,599 and again, and then like now we're trying to redraw it at the weird 274 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,680 times, and it's like, where does it end? And if you were 275 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,680 going to make this decision, shouldn't it have been when Kyrie was actually away 276 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,759 from the team, Like this is when it you really should have went to 277 00:17:55,839 --> 00:17:59,160 nuclear out and then you could have maybe maybe you trade Kadi and Kyrie and 278 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,160 rebuild around James. Are at that point like, I'm just like, you 279 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,000 could have maybe traded Kevin Durant for Ben Simmons, kept James. I don't 280 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,000 know how any of that works, but it feels like they've just misstepped at 281 00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:14,279 so many turns, or at least failed to be consistent with their mentality. 282 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,400 And I do not feel bad that their culture imploded because they decided superstars were 283 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,640 their culture. I also don't like the Patty Mills deal for them. There 284 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,359 was clearly some quid pro quo there that he was going to opt out and 285 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,319 get more money. He did not close the year. Well. I love 286 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,559 the TJ. Warren contract. That's a fantastic flyer. So there are things 287 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,920 to like or be neutral about, but like that's a This was a bad 288 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,960 offseason for them as of right now so far, because I think that my 289 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:45,200 grade again will go up after we look at the return for Kevin durant end 290 00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:49,640 or Kyrie Irving and not having that concrete direction is a fucking problem. Yeah, 291 00:18:49,759 --> 00:18:55,799 I agree. I think if they get anything close to what the asking 292 00:18:55,799 --> 00:19:00,680 price seems to be from Brooklyn's end, then like this great could go up 293 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,559 a lot because suddenly you you're rid of a guy that wants no part of 294 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:07,519 being there, which is it's not totally analogous to the Gobert situation, but 295 00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:11,240 it's like this is a lost cause we're trying to get something because otherwise we 296 00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:15,880 have a guy that's probably just gonna hold out. And if you get this 297 00:19:15,079 --> 00:19:21,759 like super star, a young star another like quality starter and four firsts or 298 00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:25,079 whatever, it ends up being like that's I mean, we're talking like into 299 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,079 the ber range easy, maybe maybe even the A range, just because you're 300 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,279 started over. Once Irving's gone, he's gone and you're like a normal ish 301 00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:33,880 team again. Yeah. Look, the other thing that I'm not happy about 302 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,960 is just like why, how like how have you not figured out a way 303 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,359 to bring and I know this is stupid David Duke Junior back like someone who 304 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,640 really showed a lot in Summer League, and he's just floating out there remaining 305 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,519 unsigned. I know that Kevin Durant stuff has to hold up a ton, 306 00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:52,240 but like you can't even hit like on that basic of a move, which 307 00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:56,119 is, oh keep someone who like is a really nice flyer. At this 308 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,319 point, like, I just I don't understand it. They should announce a 309 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,039 huge press conference and it'll just be that they've retained David Duke Jr. Just 310 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,400 for me because we did a podcast where identified him as like one of the 311 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,319 best remaining free agents. So clearly I'm just unattached that. But that's just 312 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,640 not so much is unfinished here, and I think this late in the summer. 313 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:15,880 I get what they're trying to do, which is why there's the D 314 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,200 plus just the fact that this is all imploded and the Nets either couldn't foresee 315 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,720 this or didn't decide to take a hard line stance sooner and let it get 316 00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:29,200 to this point. And again I agree with what they're doing now. The 317 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,720 fact that camera dress requests or trade. You don't just trade him wherever he 318 00:20:32,279 --> 00:20:34,119 wants to go for nothing. I understand it doesn't work like that, but 319 00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:40,440 this is there are no winners in this situation. They're just zero. Yeah, 320 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,640 so I went D plus you had them in a flat sea? Or 321 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,640 do you give him a C minus. I'm going to see just I mean, 322 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,559 who knows, right, this is a placeholder, let's be honest. 323 00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:51,559 Yeah, that's fair, which means we move on to the New York Knicks 324 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:55,480 very much not so much a placeholder. This is gonna take a while, 325 00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:56,440 so grant you go grab a cup of coffee. We'll see you in an 326 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:02,519 hour. The Knicks traded usman Yang number eleven to Okase for denvers two thousand 327 00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:04,559 and twenty three. First, that's a lotto protected through two thousand and twenty 328 00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:08,519 five, then turns into two seconds. They also acquired Detroit's two twenty three 329 00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:12,440 first top eighteen protected for the next two years, then top thirteen protected, 330 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,400 top eleven protected, top nine protected in two thousand and twenty seven, then 331 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,519 it turns into a second round pick. And they also got Washington's two thousand 332 00:21:19,519 --> 00:21:23,240 and twenty three. First that's lotto protected for two years, top ten protected 333 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,960 in two thousand and twenty five, and top eight protected in two thousand and 334 00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:32,279 twenty six before turning into two seconds. They then acquired jail And Durhan at 335 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,839 number thirteen from the Charlotte Hornets for that Denver first round pick and three two 336 00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:40,599 thousand and twenty three second rounders. It's the Nix's own, Utah's two thousand 337 00:21:40,599 --> 00:21:44,720 and twenty three second, and then the least favorable of OKC Dallas, Washington 338 00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:48,519 and Miami's I believe two thousand and twenty three second. They then traded Jalen 339 00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:52,720 Durhan number thirteen and Kemba Walker to Detroit from Milwaukee's two thousand and twenty five 340 00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:57,319 first round pick that is top four protected. They also traded in Newrylands nowel 341 00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:02,839 Alec Burks, who are both based on expiring contracts since the third year on 342 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,759 their deals or next year on their deals is non guaranteed or as team options. 343 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,119 So they traded those two six million in cash, twenty twenty three second 344 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,359 round pick, which was Detroit's own, and a twenty twenty six second round 345 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,880 pick from from Detroit or Minnesota. That's got to be wrong. So in 346 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,160 twenty twenty six first round pick two the Pistons for basically nothing. It's a 347 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,799 fake second rounder in the draft rights to Nikola Radchevik. They signed Jalen brought 348 00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:30,799 Its into a four year, one hundred and four million dollars deal that will 349 00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:33,039 start at and I think this is important, twenty seven point seven million, 350 00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:37,559 and then it declines for the next two years. The final year is a 351 00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:40,799 player option that would be his age twenty nine season, and it projects to 352 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:44,960 be worth seventeen percent of the entire salary cap. By the way, he 353 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,480 also has a ten percent trade bonus. They signed Isaiah Hartenstein to a two 354 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:51,839 year, seventeen million dollar deal, five percent trade bonus, two point one 355 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,440 million dollars in unlikely incentives. Now I want to frame this in totality, 356 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,920 because that's a ton. In the end, the Knicks used the number eleven, 357 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,680 pick six second rounders, one of which is so let's say five second 358 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,920 rounders, one of which is top fifty five protected, and six million dollars 359 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:10,799 in cash to offload three expiring deals, scoop up three conditional first rounders, 360 00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:14,680 and then signed Jalen Brunson and Isaiah Hartenstein. So that is just the order 361 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,960 of operations for them. They signed Mitchell Robinson to a four year, sixty 362 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,240 million dollars deal starts at seventeen million dollars and declines all the way to thirteen 363 00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:25,200 million and year four, his age twenty seven season, he will be the 364 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,680 twelfth highest paid center in the league. Next year, they signed Jerich Will 365 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,039 Sims to a three year, five point seven million dollar deal, partially guaranteed 366 00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:34,359 in years one and two, non guaranteed in year three. They signed for 367 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,680 Ron Hunt to a two way contract, and they signed Trevor Keels to a 368 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,880 two way contract. Their notable exits include Taj Gibson, who they waved he 369 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:48,319 signed with the Wizards, and Ryan Archie Dacino remains unsigned. Whoof I need 370 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,720 a minute to catch my breath there, Grant, what grad did you give 371 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,440 the Knicks? So this just full disclosure. This was a C plus back 372 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,359 in July, but having kind of lived with it for a little longer and 373 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,640 kind of needing what you did here, framing, framing this whole series of 374 00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:08,039 transactions in totality, my official grade now is down to a C minus, 375 00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:14,640 which, like you know, not a major difference. But so just a 376 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,519 lot happened. Some of it was good, some of it was bad, 377 00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:22,680 but most of it And I'm afraid I'm gonna steal your point on this because 378 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:29,200 I think this is roughly where you're at. This does not a scream. 379 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,839 We have a we have a coherent plan long you know, we don't know 380 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:40,400 what the Knicks five year plan is, so so like just to take the 381 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,680 big ones. I think Brunson at that number is fine. I think you've 382 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:51,440 definitely said and I agree that the conditions at least with respect to offensive spacing 383 00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:53,759 in Dallas were way better than they're going to be with the Knicks, and 384 00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:59,839 so he may struggle a little bit. I think he's a guy that really 385 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:03,759 needs the room because of his lack of size, to kind of get into 386 00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:06,680 his bag, especially if he gets into kind of the mid post area where 387 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,160 he has, you know, such an incredible like array of fakes and stuff. 388 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,640 If if everything is just compressed in there, I think maybe he runs 389 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,720 into some trouble. We love Hartenstein. That's a fine number. I think 390 00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:21,319 he's quietly one of the best backup gigs in the league. There's an argument 391 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:22,920 to be made that he's better than Mitchell Robinson, So that makes the Mitchell 392 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,079 Robinson signing real bad. The twelfth highest paid center, he is not the 393 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,720 twelfth best center in the league. It's not close. And that's not even 394 00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:37,240 considering his durability concerns. So I think I'm just all told this is just 395 00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:41,759 slightly below average, and most of it, like most of it is because 396 00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:47,000 I still don't really have a sense of like the what the goal is in 397 00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:49,759 all this. I get it, they like Brunson, they really wanted him, 398 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,519 they got him, and they didn't really overpay that much, especially I 399 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:59,720 mean maybe not at all, especially with the declining structure. So I just 400 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,000 I just don't fully get what the Knicks are doing. But like I think 401 00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:07,400 I said this back in July when I did grades, like anyone that's you 402 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,119 know, thinking if this is an f or this is crazy. I don't 403 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,279 know. This is a straw man argument, but like you gotta remember how 404 00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:17,480 bad some of them Nick, like, how totally aimless some of the Knicks 405 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,640 offseasons have been in the past. This is this is a series of like 406 00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:26,440 dubious moves in some cases, but some are like objectively I think pretty good. 407 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,720 It's just like what is it's you know, to what end? Basically 408 00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:34,680 is my unanswered questions. So it's a C minus for me. I wonder 409 00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:38,279 the C minus as well. This is terrible podcasting because you can at all, 410 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,640 and I echo everything you said. I did flirt with going lower just 411 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,359 because I do think this show is a lack of a coherent vision, as 412 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,839 you said, And it's just like it's not the Jalen Brunson deal, it's 413 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,480 because the Knicks were the one to offer it. And what does if you 414 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,079 think Jalen Brunson is your best player right now? What does that make you? 415 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,519 And so looming over all, this, of course is the Donovan Mitchell 416 00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:04,240 trade talks. That doesn't change too much for me unless Danny Ainge loses the 417 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,759 trade. I don't think it will necessarily be a bad trade for the Knicks. 418 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,720 But the way I framed it is Dustley, And yes, I just 419 00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:18,799 said Dustley, dost thou protest about me saying Dustley, if you acquire Donovan 420 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:25,000 Mitchell, you still need to acquire Donovan Mitchell's equal or superior because Jalen Brunson 421 00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:26,880 cannot be the second best player on your team when Donovan Mitchell's the first, 422 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,559 you know who he can be the second best player on your team for the 423 00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:33,960 fucking Mavericks, when Luca don Chich is the best player on your team. 424 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,519 It's not the contract. The contract is fine I will say, why did 425 00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:40,519 he need a player option and why is there a trade bonus in there? 426 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,920 It's declining, So maybe that's the concession you make, and that's smart. 427 00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:45,720 It's the same thing with Mitchell Robinson's deal, which is why I noted it. 428 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,319 Mitchell Robinson in year four of that deal at thirteen million dollars, maybe 429 00:27:49,319 --> 00:27:52,960 that ends up being a bargain. That's also a deal they shouldn't have signed 430 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,839 because who was giving Mitchell Robinson sixty million dollars. That feels like an issue 431 00:27:56,839 --> 00:27:59,960 of oh, the Knicks, we're doing him a favor because they didn't decline 432 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,599 his team option last year to make him restricted free agent. They didn't sign 433 00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:06,720 them to an extension during the season because they wanted to prioritize their flexibility. 434 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,559 That's not no, you don't do that, Like, yeah, I'm gonna 435 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,400 ding you for that. I didn't like that. Love the Hartnerstein signing best 436 00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:15,319 one of the best signings of the offseason. I'm curious to see, like 437 00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:19,480 how much the Knicks actually use him there though, But it's just like, 438 00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:22,559 yeah, this is unfinished to be honest, because of the Donovan Mitchell stuff. 439 00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:26,400 But what does it even say Donovan Mitchell and John Brunson make you what 440 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,400 like this team is right now if we're going through the East, I don't 441 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,720 think the Knicks are a top six team. Like there's Philly, there's Boston, 442 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:38,000 there's Milwaukee, there's Miami. I'm forgetting there's Toronto. I would definitely 443 00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:41,200 have ahead of them. Would you have Atlanta ahead of them? Like that's 444 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,839 a team you lead? I probably would at this point. So they're six 445 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,640 right there, and I feel like I'm forgetting a really obvious I think Cleveland's 446 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,079 better. Cleveland certainly in the mix, like is they're probably in the same 447 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,839 territory right now if we're being honest as Washington and Charlotte like sort of the 448 00:28:56,119 --> 00:29:00,160 what the fuck is happening here? Teams? And I don't think any there's 449 00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:03,279 no single move they made that was detrimental this offseason. Let me make that 450 00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:08,920 clear. There was none. I just the extent they went to like enter 451 00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:14,599 mediocrity or sub mediocrity or stay in sub mediocrity is just troubling. And what 452 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,920 I really don't like here is even if the team is left alone, there's 453 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,920 still like this ambiguity surrounding Well, what do you think RJ. Barrett is 454 00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:27,240 because now you've acquired someone else who needs to have not only he doesn't need. 455 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:30,680 Jalen Brunson can hit a set three point. I want to make that 456 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,119 clear. But he's at his best with the ball in his hands, working 457 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,559 inside the arc at this point. So is RJ. Barrett at this point. 458 00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:38,920 So is Julius Randall. There's a chance you're actually going to add Donovan 459 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:44,319 Mitchell to that mix without subtracting either of those players. Did you give Jalen 460 00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:48,200 Brunson enough space to work with inside the arc? Hell? No, no, 461 00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:52,880 you don't have that right now. So I'm not preemptively degrading them for 462 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,039 the Mitchell trade that might actually help their roster because it's going to be a 463 00:29:56,119 --> 00:29:59,680 huge talent boost. But what are you angling for here? And I think 464 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,960 there they're saving grace can be This is if the Donovan Mitchell trade includes fewer 465 00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:10,319 of their own picks or fewer picks in general than we thought, and they're 466 00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:15,400 able to go out and acquire another star. And that's I'm not I'm not 467 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,440 accounting for that not happening and saying this is why they're at a C minus. 468 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:23,920 There's just a complete and total absence of inspiration here and again, Jalen 469 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,480 Brunson is really good. This is not the player that the Knicks should have 470 00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:30,599 hitched their wagon too. And also, like I think you can argue going 471 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,400 after Jalen Brunson, even though the offensive fit would maybe be divine, I 472 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,759 would say probably a little bit less than divine. But if you were gonna 473 00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:42,200 go get Donovan Mitchell and you knew this was coming, We knew Donovan Mitchell 474 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,359 to the Knicks was like a thing that's been out there for years, why 475 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,839 signed Jalen bro Like, you could argue the Jalen Brunson signing is more pointless 476 00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:52,720 now that the mixus are in the Donovan Mitchell sweep staces. Well, yeah, 477 00:30:52,880 --> 00:31:00,279 I think so charitably this you know, just getting Donovan Mitchell adds ups 478 00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:03,480 the talent and like the grid goes up for that reason. But charitably, 479 00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:07,079 like if this all is you know, if this was all maneuvering to get 480 00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:11,359 a couple of extra assets or something to get Mitchell and the fit works, 481 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,319 then like, yeah, I guess then we have. It's it's harder for 482 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,680 us to criticize like a lack of a coherent plan if like Mitchell was part 483 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,400 of it all along at least, like that's part of you know, something 484 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,880 that had been in the works for a while. I do think though, 485 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,440 I kind of hate the Mitchell Brunson fit. I think it's too small. 486 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:36,039 I think, uh, like you you you minimize, as you alluded to 487 00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:41,599 the on ball game of like the three other most important players on the roster, 488 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,400 so the like if so, it's just to take the other side of 489 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,720 the whole, like, is there a coherent plan argument if Mitchell's your guy, 490 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,200 then I don't know how much since the rest of the roster makes like 491 00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:56,519 at all, So I a lot of the pieces would go. You know 492 00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:00,519 that we're referring to Barrett potentially being one of them back to Utah and a 493 00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:02,160 Mitchell deal, but we don't know, we don't know what that's gonna look 494 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,359 like. So I am Can I just say I'm looking forward to the next 495 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,039 team because it's a lot simpler, because we've done a bunch in a row 496 00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:13,559 lately that are really hard to kind of unpack. Uh yeah, I just 497 00:32:13,599 --> 00:32:15,920 don't. Could you see very quickly on this, do you see a scenario 498 00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:20,880 in which the Knicks grade could go? Is the Nicks grade after the Donovan 499 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,519 Mitchell sweepstakes is over for you more likely to go up or down. I 500 00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:29,799 think probably up, but there's yeah, I don't know how high, but 501 00:32:30,039 --> 00:32:32,319 there's it really depends. I don't know what they're gonna give up. I 502 00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:37,400 don't know. It's almost like it's such a cop out, but like I'd 503 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,799 like to see how the fit works on the floor before I'm make an off. 504 00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:43,920 See that's not really a luxury we have in this situation. But I 505 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,480 think it could go up just just the talent, like because you know Mitchell, 506 00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:50,160 like you said, is not an a number one guy on a title 507 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,680 threat. But and now you parent below that, now you pair you would 508 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:58,039 pair them with Brunson, where the two your two league guards, they're best 509 00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:02,400 attributes like they're they're I would say they're top two offensive attributes. It's not 510 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,559 passing like you're not gonna pass again the top two things that either of those 511 00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:07,799 two guys don't they're not. I don't think either of them are bad playmakers. 512 00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:10,400 I want to make that clear, but like neither of them are floor 513 00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:15,240 Like is if you get Donovan Mitchell and Jalen bruns In, is Derek Rose 514 00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:20,640 still the best passer on your team. I'm a serious question, am I 515 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,680 is that that's a I mean, that's a problem that we have that we 516 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,920 have to we have to try to decide that I don't know. I mean, 517 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,400 like, it's not it's not if they keep quickly. It's not quickly. 518 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,039 It's definitely not Julius Randall. There's like Julie, there's like a Russell 519 00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:37,920 Westbrook nows to the way that Julius Randall pa. It's like a last resort 520 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,480 rather than the play. Right, Well, what you're gonna gets a lot 521 00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:44,519 some Knicks fans saying like, look how many assists the average Like no, 522 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,680 no, no, that's not even what I mean, Like, I know, 523 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,599 I know what you mean. I'm afraid that some other people might not. 524 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,240 Uh so C minuses across the board there, I think it's more likely 525 00:33:53,319 --> 00:33:58,119 to go up to So there's like I just there's you will be able to 526 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,480 understand more of the Knicks vision, whether they're actually committed to not being great 527 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,160 or actually have a path to being great after the Mitchell trade. And that's 528 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,719 just the fact. So if you want to go incomplete, I think a 529 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,159 C minus is fair. If you wanted to bump it up to a C. 530 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,079 I wouldn't argue, but you're right. The Sixers are a lot easier. 531 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:17,800 Let me throw their transaction list up on the screen. The Sixers traded 532 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,840 number twenty three, which was David Roddy and Danny Green, to the Grizzlies 533 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,079 for Danthey Melton, who was two years and sixteen point three million dollars left 534 00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:29,079 on his deal. They signed Daniel House to a two year eight point four 535 00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:31,519 million dollars deal the player there's a player option on year two. It was 536 00:34:31,559 --> 00:34:35,679 for the full bi annual exception. They signed PJ. Tucker to a three 537 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,880 year thirty three million dollars deal that was the full non tax payramid level exception, 538 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,559 and he has a twenty twenty four twenty twenty five player option at the 539 00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:47,199 age of thirty nine. They are also hardcapped because they use the non tax 540 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,760 paymid level exception. James hard To opted out and signed a two year sixty 541 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,599 eight point six million dollars deal a twenty twenty three twenty twenty four player option. 542 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:59,559 The NBA is investigating the Sixers for tampering slash cap circumvention because of it. 543 00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:04,639 Also note the Knicks that's did you the Knicks being investigating them. He 544 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,719 is investigating them for tampering with Jalen Brunson as well. And just like the 545 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,440 audacity to hire his dad as an assistant, even though his dad has a 546 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,440 track record of being an assistant when that whole thing is happening in the backdrop 547 00:35:15,559 --> 00:35:21,519 is just I almost applaud it because it's just it's so fucking brazen, But 548 00:35:21,559 --> 00:35:22,920 so that should have been noted as part of that. Jalen Brunson is not 549 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,119 the player I want to tamper for. It is basically what I mean there. 550 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,719 The Sixers signed Travilla and Queen to a two year, three point six 551 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,280 million dollars deal that will guarantee and fall on January tenth. The second years 552 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,320 non guaranteed. They picked up the two million dollars option on Shake Milton, 553 00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:42,559 and they signed Michael Foster Junior too an Exhibit ten deal notable exits, and 554 00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:45,840 I know Sixers fans will be mad, or said DeAndre Jordan signed with the 555 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,440 Nuggets. I r I p to DJ's reign in Philly and then Paul Millsap 556 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,880 remains unsigned. Talk about a quick fall for Paul Millsapp. I was like 557 00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:55,079 right up until he his last season in Denver. I was just like, 558 00:35:55,079 --> 00:36:00,400 this guy's gonna play forever. What grade did you give Philly. It's it's 559 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,440 another flat A for me. So that's two in this division. I think 560 00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:08,920 just to take the other side first, Like maybe you're concerned that that you 561 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,320 know, the depth behind and bead at center is a little wanting. I 562 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,800 mean, just go find how many different teams have we already said, like 563 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,000 just go find Go get Hassan Whiteside. You just go get somebody that because 564 00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:22,000 like the reality is if Embid misses significant time, this team is not doing 565 00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:25,480 anything anyway. So just get a guy that you can play seven, eight, 566 00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:30,000 ten minutes in big games, and I think you're fine. Yeah, 567 00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:34,679 Like just getting Tuck hilarious, by the way, is having a player option 568 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,159 at thirty nine, which is what he's gonna have, Like pretty pretty likely 569 00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:42,719 he's picking that up. I think Tucker is a huge addition. I ding 570 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,639 the heat for losing him. I don't know how realistic it was for him 571 00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:47,800 to end up anywhere, but Philly it seems like that was kind of not 572 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,480 not done but close to it. And then House and Melton I think are 573 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,360 both guys, I could envision closing games. Uh so, like you've added 574 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:02,480 three starter slash rotation level airs. Uh you. And also with the tampering 575 00:37:02,559 --> 00:37:07,719 thing for Harden's new deal, I feel like, yeah, anytime you're getting 576 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,639 investigated in this particular case, like it's a sign you did something like really 577 00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:15,159 well, like a little too well. So I'm I you know, like, 578 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,760 yeah, it's almost like a badge of honor not quite in it. 579 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,239 Then the Nixon Brunson, Yeah, it's in a like there's the Sixers are 580 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:28,559 way better. There are still risks like Harden might actually be washed and and 581 00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:31,159 and B could get hurt, but like that's not an offseason thing. So 582 00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:36,119 so they just got a ton better and added a bunch of defense, added 583 00:37:36,119 --> 00:37:39,079 some shooting. Like I you know, I have no no knits to pick 584 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:44,199 here. Yeah, I think like the PJ. Tucker deal is just like 585 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,559 another team would have given him that right. And so if you're just confident 586 00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:50,400 that you're going to work within the constraints of the hardcap, which I think 587 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,639 you can be confident with because you didn't have all this draft equity to trade 588 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,679 anyway and any deal because you have to buy his Harris if you were to 589 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,480 make something. Uh, It's like I don't want say it's easy to work 590 00:37:59,519 --> 00:38:00,960 with him the hard cap. But if there was a team that just wanted 591 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,320 anything attached to to Bias Harris to get value, like you can work it 592 00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:08,079 so that you're staying within the hard cap. I love their offseason, maybe 593 00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:13,239 a little twenty eighteen Rocketsy for me, just like, let's run it back 594 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,239 with them. But you got James Harden too. I don't think that this 595 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,800 needs to be a precedent if we're gonna start asking, oh, is Lebron 596 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,239 gonna well, is Anthony Davis gonna take less and his next deal or Lebron 597 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,760 after his extension kicks in, gonna take less in his next contract to help 598 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,559 the Lakers get a third start. That should never be the expectation here. 599 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,079 But they got James Harden to take less, and honestly, if they circumvented 600 00:38:34,119 --> 00:38:37,719 the salary cap in the process, I don't really fucking care, you know 601 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,440 what. I like, what is the You know, if if he wasn't 602 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,920 going to take a pay cut, they would have signed him anyway. And 603 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,559 if it's like a handshake deal under the table that oh, we're just gonna 604 00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:49,559 pay you next year. Well, hey, guess what just happened with the 605 00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:53,480 Clippers Visa with Reggie Jackson and Nicholas Patum. This is I know it's a 606 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,480 different caliber of player, but if it's happening at a lower scale, it's 607 00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:00,679 and I'm not saying this is a kin to the Nuggets. They had DeAndre 608 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,760 Jordan like in the bag in mid June, which is just like, imagine 609 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,519 tampering for DeAndre Jordan. I get there are levels and dimensions to how tampering 610 00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:12,920 works. I just I can't bring myself to care until you actually like make 611 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,159 an example out of a team. And I also don't think it's fair though, 612 00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:20,159 to make an example out of a team unless it's done not uniformly, 613 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,480 but in conjunction with hitting a bunch of teams at once. Because look at 614 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,840 what happened with the Bulls and Lonzo Ball or the like. You can't like 615 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,760 pretend that that actually cares. And you scuttled the Bugdanomitch deal for the Bucks. 616 00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:35,440 That's like the biggest I guess penalty a team is suffered, not what 617 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,960 they actually like we're fined of that or where they cost them a second round 618 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,159 pick if anything like the deal was revoked, and so unless you're going to 619 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,480 come in and revoke these contracts all of a sudden, I just don't care. 620 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,880 And yes to the sixers, Actually, they just make so much more 621 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,280 sense on the court right now. And they're also kind of set up to 622 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,280 where Doc Rivers can't fuck up the backup center rotation now, which I think 623 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,079 is important because you're you're either going play PJ. Tucker as a small ball 624 00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:06,079 five in those minutes or we're gonna actually get to see like a lot of 625 00:40:06,119 --> 00:40:08,239 Paul Reid. So I think that that's, you know, important. I 626 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,719 love the Damp Meltain pickup. That's someone who he didn't look great in the 627 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,079 playoffs with minute with Memphis, excuse me, but like he's hit the three 628 00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:20,800 well over the past two seasons and he will defend his butt off. And 629 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,800 what you've essentially done is said, Hey, we're gonna surround Joel and Bead 630 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:29,480 and James Harden with guys who can defend and capably hit threes. There's no 631 00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:34,119 like lights out prime Kyle Korver on this team. No rookie there's not even 632 00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:37,559 a rookie year Landry Shammitt on this team or whatever year he ends up in 633 00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:38,960 Philly. He's been around the block so many times you can't even remember, 634 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,599 but you have enough shooting. And I also think it's not unreasonable to expect 635 00:40:44,679 --> 00:40:49,440 James Harden to be better. This is like he's he's finally not in Houston 636 00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,480 or Brooklyn. He's not dealing with any sort of injuries. Over the offseason, 637 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,840 he took a pay cut, which seems to resonate with me that I 638 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,480 don't think he should have. But then he gets it and like he kind 639 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:05,119 of understand it's like this is my last shot at of like people have already 640 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:07,800 turned on him and think that he's a poser or can't perform in the playoffs. 641 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,000 I think he understands that now, which is only good for the Sixers. 642 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,199 Whether he should have actually taken a pay cut, that's what the players 643 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,639 union to talk about in amongst themselves. But I'm like, he might be 644 00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:20,519 a sneaky great MVP bet this year, just the odds that he's laying and 645 00:41:20,559 --> 00:41:22,760 you could probably like cash out early on because he's playing so well. I 646 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,239 think this team is I don't know if they're Tier one contenders now, but 647 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,000 I think they're now in Tier two, and to do that when you didn't 648 00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:34,199 really have much to work with in the like like heading into the off season. 649 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,079 I think that's a that's a big deal. So I don't know if 650 00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:37,760 I said my grade, but I want a flat A for the I'll go 651 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,840 a minus because it's like, did PJ. Tucker need the player option at 652 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,400 age there? But again it's like, no, I'm going a Another team 653 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,440 would have given him that deal, So point to me the move that doesn't 654 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,840 make sense here. Yeah, I like, I'm relatively speaking, I'm pretty 655 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,760 low on hardened, but I agree with what you said that, like, 656 00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:59,000 at the very least we can we can agree that he's better positioned to succeed 657 00:41:59,039 --> 00:42:02,239 with this roster than he's been really at any time since things were really going 658 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,880 well in Houston, because it's just like you said it, it's it's really 659 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,719 good defensive players around him who like ideally don't get the ball unless they're shooting 660 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,519 open threes. And then instead of Clint Capella, you have Joel Embiid. 661 00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:21,119 So like I'm just comparing to like, yeah, this is Rockets East now, 662 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:22,360 and some of the guys are a little older than you might like, 663 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:28,960 I mean, Rockets Rockets, West Rockets. Actual Rockets worked pretty well for 664 00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:35,159 until they started messing with things. So this arguably is like a version of 665 00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:38,559 that team that just happens to have an MVP candidate center, which was never 666 00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:43,840 the case, uh, you know for the actual Rockets over the last you 667 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:49,159 know, six seven, eight years. So I mean, I think that 668 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,559 the number for Harden still actually having said that, like that might just be 669 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,760 like was he gonna get more than not? Certainly not this offseason because there 670 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,239 just wasn't any money, But like, what is his actual value based on 671 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,199 how things have looked the last couple of years. That's another like big unknown 672 00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:08,320 because you don't know how much the give a shit factor really matters. I 673 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,239 guess my whole thing is just like if there were teams that wanted to compete 674 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,559 or could talk themselves into that they could compete and had cap space, and 675 00:43:15,639 --> 00:43:19,679 James Harden was willing to sign anywhere, he would have gotten the MAX. 676 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,599 But like, we're at the point where players are making so much money, 677 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,880 Do I expect them to start taking fifteen million dollars pay cuts in a single 678 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:30,480 season? No, But like at some point, like the richer you are, 679 00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:35,119 like every dollar matters less, you might still be obsessed with it and 680 00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:38,000 how much money he makes off the court is one of those guys not advocating 681 00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:43,000 for it. I just I can't bring myself the care except to from the 682 00:43:43,039 --> 00:43:45,440 side of the sixers where it's well, James Harden at you know, an 683 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,360 average annual value technically over the next two years of thirty four million dollars makes 684 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,320 so much sense? Yeah, because that's not even you know, he'll be 685 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:58,440 making about the equivalent of like a twenty five percent max next year if he 686 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,960 picked up his player option, or is about the equivalent of a twenty five 687 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,039 percent max this year, like close to it. That's like all of a 688 00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:07,639 sudden good value. Are you like, do you think James Harden is You're 689 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,440 low on Harden So I get like in a vacuum. And it's the way 690 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,199 it works sort of. These players being able to make more as they get 691 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,920 older. Is it's counterintuitive, but I guess it's also agist to say that 692 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,159 they shouldn't, but they're not, you know, making the most money when 693 00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:22,000 you're in your for PJ. Tucker is going to have the highest paid salary 694 00:44:22,039 --> 00:44:25,360 of his career at age thirty nine in this industry that doesn't make any sense 695 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,199 technically, but just like relative to what you think James Harden is now like 696 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,599 thirty four million whatever that number is, Like, that's pretty great value for 697 00:44:34,639 --> 00:44:37,639 the Sixers. And it's the length of the deal or the lack of length 698 00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:39,960 of the deal that's the that's the big deciding factor for me, because like 699 00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:44,679 just to get back to you know, are we concerned about this being a 700 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,800 precedent where guys you know, the Nicholas Patum and now the hardened situation, 701 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,199 Like it won't be a precedent if if this is a handshake thing and Harden 702 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:57,360 opts out and then they give him the full max and like he's got awful 703 00:44:57,519 --> 00:45:00,599 for the length of that deal, nobody's getting Like there will not be a 704 00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:05,280 line of teams like trying to get you know, just past the prime superstars 705 00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:08,119 and doing these wink wink things like that. So there's there's a real chance 706 00:45:08,119 --> 00:45:12,679 that this sets the precedent for like we're never going to do this handshake bullshit 707 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,840 again with another star that has like some dubious conditioning and you know, career 708 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,840 trajectory issues. So yeah, to twenty five percent of the cap, roughly 709 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,159 like you said, that's okay, and just knowing that like at worst you 710 00:45:25,199 --> 00:45:29,840 can get out of this after next year if just like he just doesn't have 711 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,000 it anymore. I well, actually worse would be if they fully max him 712 00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:42,239 out for I'm not figuring another tampering investigation or salary cap cir convention investigation if 713 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,960 there everything's absolved now, but then he does up down inside for the max 714 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:50,239 after having a crappy year. Yeah, that's tough, that's tough. What 715 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,760 did you end up giving them? Again? Just to name this is terrible 716 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,760 podcasting. I'm about to deviate from your next grade on the Raptors just to 717 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,599 make sure that we have some sort of disagreement. Let me throw them up 718 00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:04,360 on this green here. The tront Raptors notable moves include signing Daddy is Young 719 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,320 to a two year sixteen million dollar deal. Only one million is guaranteed in 720 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,480 year two. They signed Otto Porter Junior to a two year twelve point three 721 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,840 million dollar deal. It's a twenty twenty three, two twenty four player option 722 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,519 on that. They use less than the big mL E to get him, 723 00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:20,199 which is wild, and it helps them award the hardcap, which is significant 724 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,880 to this note, which is they drafted Christian Coloco at number thirty three. 725 00:46:23,199 --> 00:46:27,280 Per Raptors fans on the YouTube comment they think he's going to be the second 726 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,920 greatest NBA player of all time. He does remain unsigned, though, in 727 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,320 part because they're trying to remain flexible under the hardcap, since they would probably 728 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,679 need to use the mid level except part of the what's remaining of their mid 729 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,880 level exception to sign him, and if you go above the midi mL E, 730 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,719 you're going to be hardcapped, and they are looming in the Kevin Durant 731 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,360 sweepstakes. That is my point. They signed Chris Bruschado with three year, 732 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,239 thirty five point three million dollar deal. My guy getting paid. It's fully 733 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,639 guaranteed. Signed DJ Wilson to a two year, four point six million dollar 734 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:57,760 deal that fully guarantee is on opening night and year to is non guaranteed. 735 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,480 They signed Justin Shampetty to a two year at three point six million dollar deal, 736 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:05,079 also guarantee as an opening night and year two is non guaranteed. SphI 737 00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:07,719 mckailu picked up his player option. They signed Juan Hernan Goomis to a one 738 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:13,239 year Veterans minimum deal. They signed Ron Harper Junior and Jeff Doughton to to 739 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,559 two way contracts, and they signed Gay Brown to an Exhibit ten deal. 740 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,760 They waived Rmani Brooks as part of their notable exits and both essak Bonga and 741 00:47:21,039 --> 00:47:25,639 this one is excusable. Utah wants an abby remain unsigned grant one. The 742 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,760 Raptors were like, I know they weren't mega transactions, but going through it 743 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,719 when I was doing it, they were busier than I was expected. But 744 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,239 what great did you give? The Raptors? Ultimately, I give him a 745 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,559 bee just everything. All these signings are fine. I just st don't know 746 00:47:38,599 --> 00:47:43,239 how consequential any of them are. Like, but the you know, getting 747 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,000 Porter, I think Porter was I suspect that he was going to be one 748 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,639 of the most sought after free agents in the league, and to get him 749 00:47:49,639 --> 00:47:52,920 for less than the full mL E is like, you know, pretty impressive. 750 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,960 But obviously there were some like off court, you know, he's I 751 00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,760 think it's his girlfriend or his fiance as from Toronto, So that seems to 752 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,360 have been a factor, because I can't believe the market of Toronto has pull, 753 00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:07,079 is what you're saying. Well, it seems that it's probably should, 754 00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:10,119 right, it should have cool. That's a cool place to be. But 755 00:48:10,159 --> 00:48:15,719 like I've just because we have to, I gotta believe that there was there 756 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,719 was a full mL E offer out there for him. There should have been, 757 00:48:20,119 --> 00:48:22,360 Yeah, there there should have been if there wasn't. So that's I 758 00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:24,400 got no problem with that. Bouchet feels like a little rich, but like 759 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:30,079 that's that's a totally manageable number. I'm fine with that. I think if 760 00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:31,320 I had to, I guess, and I have to. I do have 761 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,199 to like ding them a little bit because I gave them a B instead of 762 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,360 something better. It's like, are we sure that the playmaking and point guard 763 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:44,320 situation is was sufficiently addressed? Because I think that it wasn't. Is that 764 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,679 like yeah, like because I guess, you know, you say, well, 765 00:48:47,679 --> 00:48:51,760 Scotty Barnes is gonna up the playmaking and we can get some more of 766 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,119 that from even like that Young has had phenomenal playmaking seasons from a front court 767 00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:58,800 position, so you might just kind of piece it together there. But it 768 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,519 feels still like van Bleet is just kind of overtaxed and is there's not like 769 00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:06,400 a good replacement for what he does on the roster I get, you know, 770 00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:08,559 leave it to Toronto to kind of try to figure out innovative ways to 771 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,480 sort of make up for shortcomings you know that they have in the roster makeup, 772 00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:17,639 but I would have liked to have seen maybe just just go get me 773 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,760 like a backup point guard that I'm sure I can trust, because otherwise I'm 774 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,039 not sure where because Van Fleet plays a ton of minutes, and he's played 775 00:49:24,039 --> 00:49:28,840 a ton of minutes forever, and I just don't know that they're fully stocked 776 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,280 behind him to kind of weather an injury or trying to like take it easier 777 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,800 on him for once. Yeah, that's a good point. I gave him 778 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,800 a B plus because I don't know what to dislike about their off season ultimately. 779 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,480 And the auto Porter jun to me is if it's not a steal, 780 00:49:44,679 --> 00:49:46,519 like it's it's going to be fine. And does he is he a capslock 781 00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:50,440 shoot or no? But it'll space the floor, gives you different options on 782 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,639 defense. You know how I feel about Chris Boucher. So I thought that 783 00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,559 was a good deal for them, and Daddy is young, and in fact 784 00:49:57,599 --> 00:50:00,840 that it's like so low risk. Beyond next season, they still need more 785 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,519 floor spacing. And they need more like self creation and preferably they need to 786 00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:07,039 get both of those quality. He's in the same players, just the way 787 00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:09,760 the roster is built. But they've made themselves better. Still, they didn't 788 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,960 address their biggest weakness, but they're better, They're deeper, and their bench 789 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,800 was a problem last year. I think creation off the bench will still be 790 00:50:16,039 --> 00:50:20,360 an issue. What I really I'm not sure as being talked about enough, 791 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,599 is they've I know that they're mentioned in the Kevin Durant stuff as well too, 792 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:30,000 but they're also like they have all these mid end contracts now to trade, 793 00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:32,559 which they just didn't before. So when we get to December January, 794 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,119 it's not, oh, if we want to make a move, we have 795 00:50:36,159 --> 00:50:37,599 to trade Gary Trent Junior or o g and and Obi. No, you 796 00:50:37,639 --> 00:50:42,239 do have Chris Bouchet's twelve point seven million dollars salary, you have Daddy is 797 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,239 young making a point two. You have out of Porter Junior up there, 798 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,800 So I don't I wouldn't move out of Porter Junior. I would I will 799 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,880 never move Chris Bouche. I would make it. I would give him a 800 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,719 no trade clause if you though. But like I think you've increased your optionality 801 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:58,079 to improve the team because you don't it doesn't have to be a mega blockbuster 802 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,800 anymore mid season, so they're almost It was funny because they were like uniquely 803 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,920 built too. Oh you would get Kevin Durant or Donovan Mitchell in a trade 804 00:51:06,039 --> 00:51:08,480 or you really don't make any trade of consequence because you don't have like the 805 00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:12,519 middle ground. I think they set themselves up for that while getting a little 806 00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:14,760 better. I'm with you. I would have liked to have seen them skew 807 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:20,159 more towards capslock, italics, bold shooter or creator and they did not. 808 00:51:21,199 --> 00:51:23,440 But they are to me a better deeper team than they ended the season as 809 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,559 And if we got a fully healthy Raptors team last year, or even an 810 00:51:27,559 --> 00:51:30,800 eighty percent healthy Raptors team last year, I think they would have been even 811 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,960 more dangerous than they actually ended up being by the end of the season. 812 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,280 Yeah, so just last thing on Toronto for me, I guess, like 813 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,440 big picture, I kind of I respect that they sort of ran it back 814 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:45,239 more or less with the experimental like position lists. We got a bunch of 815 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:50,440 forwards thing because there were injuries last year and like there were real problems rebounding 816 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,840 and the playmaking stuff you mentioned. But I think I just think you can 817 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,679 bank on Barnes getting better. You can bank on a chew of getting better. 818 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,159 And I just like the they didn't They didn't panic and like just go 819 00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:04,800 like we need a shooter, we need a point guard, you know, 820 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,719 and go conventional. I think, like one more year at least of seeing 821 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,599 if this specific, very specific roster setup can work. I think it's I 822 00:52:12,599 --> 00:52:15,440 think it's worth it. So I like that they as much as I criticize, 823 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,480 you know, Van Fleet's kind of out there on his own. I 824 00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:22,079 like that that Toronto kind of stuck to its guns and is going to at 825 00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:25,920 least give another year of this kind of roster building. Yeah, that's that's 826 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,480 actually a really good point too. I didn't want to see really quickly, 827 00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:31,039 where do you fall on? Since they aren't involved in the Kevin Durant sweeps, 828 00:52:31,039 --> 00:52:34,960 says, are you team? I would trade Scotty Barnes for him? 829 00:52:35,159 --> 00:52:37,960 Would you trade Pascal Siakam for him? If they're not willing to include either 830 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,400 one of those guys, do you even see a pathway to them getting a 831 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,360 deal done? It would be trent O Gean and Obe and their draft essentially 832 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:50,000 probably not. I think, uh, I don't think I would trade Barnes 833 00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:55,440 for Durant just because of the costs that like, they're completely divergent developmental trajectories 834 00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,119 and maybe Siakam, but I don't it just based on what Brooklyn's asking for. 835 00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:04,679 Like I feel like if Barnes isn't in the deal, that's we're not 836 00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,039 really talking anymore, right, because I don't feel like Toronto has the same 837 00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:12,920 level of willingness to just give up all its draft picks. Just that's that's 838 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,239 like not something that historically I think Messiah Jerry has done. No, and 839 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,519 I'm with I agree that you shouldn't trade Scotty Barnes for Coming Durant. I 840 00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:22,519 also agree that if then the Nets are going to take a draft pick centric 841 00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:29,320 trade, I wouldn't take the Raptors offer just because I'd rather short like almost 842 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,519 any other team's future than the Raptors, because they're so good at just finding 843 00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:37,920 ways to add guys on the margins or add value with Messiah Ujerry, whereas 844 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:42,800 if you're with Phoenix, who is set up really well. At the same 845 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,880 time, like historically they're a less trustworthy organization than Toronto, and so you'd 846 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:52,920 rather probably be invested in their long term draft picks than then Miami's, let's 847 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:57,360 say, or even Toronto's. Yeah, that's a good point. So I 848 00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,440 gave them a B plus. You gave them a B to re app here 849 00:54:00,639 --> 00:54:04,840 very quickly. We both gave the Celtics a's. We both gave the Nets 850 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,360 C minuses. We book this is terrible podcast, and we both gave the 851 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:13,199 Knicks C minuses. We both gave the Sixers a flat A. I gave 852 00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,559 the Toronto Raptors a B plus. Grant gave them a B. This was 853 00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:19,159 awesome. If this is your first time listening or checking us out, please 854 00:54:19,159 --> 00:54:22,920 subscribe to us on both your podcast player and YouTube. Smash the like buttons 855 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,280 on YouTube and help the algorithm find us. Follow us on the socials. 856 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:30,440 Those are in the podcast description and the YouTube description. Join the discord both 857 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,639 in the podcast and YouTube description as well. Until next time, Grant and 858 00:54:32,679 --> 00:54:38,039 I faver script beeverishly leave you with the shadow through one the only frank La Keena