What is up, fellow thermonuclear A Effers. I am Dampa Valley coming at
you with Grant Hughes, diving back into that off season grade grind with two
divisions that could become wildly outdated for a few teams if any if certain transactions
go down, but we press on anyway. We're gonna we'll have the Atlantic
division for you today. Pacific we'll be up the day after. But we
asked the question that we care about most first, Grant, how how are
you doing? It's been more than three days since we spoke face to face,
which at this point has become quite quite a while for us. Yeah,
I had some withdrawals. I won't I won't. I won't sugarcoat it.
It was difficult. I am excited to do because we are I don't
know if the listeners know we are are a pair of coastal elites. We
are on opposite coasts, but that's you know, let's not run from who
we are. So I like doing the Atlantic and the Pacific together because it's
just you saved the best for last sorry flyover states. That's that's just what
we believe. We're just coastal elites. I will say though, like this
time it's not for me because I almost don't want to do the Atlantic because
like there's the Nets, there's the Knicks, and there's the Raptors, and
between those three teams, like even the Sixers have been mentioned in these Durant
sweepstakes, and the Knicks are involved with Donovan Mitchell. I'm just like this
is also pointless because those would be such a big part of those grades.
But look, we waited until late August, Like once you get to September,
it's just that's on them for not making the moves already, right,
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean the odds are that at least
two of these Atlantic Division teams will just be completely different. And I remember
back in July when for bleacher Report I did offseason grades basically right after free
agency was mostly calming down. I said something on the net section of like
let's forget about Kevin and Kyrie Irving for now, and all everybody commented like,
what do you mean, Well, what do you want me to do?
I'm not going to give it incomplete, so let's just what is how
how much does T J. Warren matter? Let's talk about that. So
yeah, we all we all agree we all understand like this is we're just
doing this because we have to. But it's gonna change most likely, right,
And look, we haven't marked down this year. I've recorded our grades
and marked down the dates, so if we do go back next year to
see what we fucked up, like, we'll know what happened thereafter. And
so the criteria very quickly is it's what happened so far, which is very
important for this division in the Atlantic Division. And we're grading the organizations as
a whole. And just finally, like a C is a passing grade,
like this is not. We're not ethering them by giving them season C minuses.
So if you're going to be one of the commenters or listeners that want
to see a had someone quibbling with me because I didn't give like Memphis an
A plus plus plot. It was just it was something ridiculous. That's not
how this works. So that's the criteria I will be putting up for people
that are watching on YouTube, and I'll do it right now, or at
least I'll go to where we need to be for it. The transactions up
on the screen for a little bit, since they're being complaints about me talking
too fast. Imagine that about me Grant talking too fast. People don't know
what they're talking about. So I'll put it up on the screen. We
begin with the Boston Celtics, and you're getting a peak behind the curtain with
all my typos or misspellings. Their notable moves. They traded Daniel Tis,
who was two years and seventeen point eight million dollars guaranteed left on his deal,
plus a third year team option. They traded him Aaron Ni Smith,
Malik fitz Nick Stowskis, and Juwan Morgan and a twenty twenty three first round
or top twelve protected to the Pacers for Malcolm Brogden, a move that was
met with almost universal approval. They signed Aniela Gallan already with a two year
at thirteen point three million dollars deal, the full miniml He has a player
option on that second season. They signed Luke Cornette, the Real Unicorn,
to a two year, four point six million dollars deal, one million dollars
guarantees on opening night, fully guarantees on July tenth. The second year is
non guaranteed. They Sam Howser to a three year, five point seven million
dollar deal, team option on that final season, and they signed JD.
Davidson to a two way contract, and they signed FIANDU Cavin Gelly to a
two way contract. No notable exits aside from the trades that we mentioned,
and if you care, malif Fits and Nickstaskus and Joan Morgan were in fact
waived by the Pacers. So Grant, what grade did you give the Celtics.
This is an a for me I as I try to think of,
you know, what am I overlooking or what it's it's just like not that
complicated to me because the way I frame Boston's offseason is they added Brogden and
Gallinari, and really the only thing of consequence that you know, in terms
of if we assume this is again a Finals contender, which I think that's
safe to say, the only thing they gave up the really matters or was
going to factor into that at all, is is Daniel Tie. Like you
know, that twenty three first rounder I don't feel like is super valuable.
It's not going to be a high pick. So getting two rotation guys,
particularly getting another playmaking guard that will help keep the ball moving in Brogden,
getting some more shooting in Gallinari, you know, we could. I don't
know how how nuanced or how deep you want to go on this, but
like, it's just two rotation guys that could definitely start for you in a
pinch in the event of injuries, and guys that I can envision being part
of the rotation in a final series. So having gotten those two guys and
not really given up a ton downside, wrists are there, but you know,
with Brogden's health and Gallinari's defense. But yeah, it's pretty hard for
me to really nitpick here because Boston was really good and improved without sacrificing anything
that I view as as significant. Yeah, I think, so what did
you end up giving them? It's just a flatt a. Yeah, I
give him a flat a as well. I don't know what there's not to
like about their off season unless you think that Aarnie Smith was good to blossom
into a star somehow. And I just you know, even if you think
that were they really gonna pay everybody if you thought like Langford dating back to
the Derek White trade was going to pan out and the twenty twenty three first
is just even if they regress from how they finished towards the end of last
season. Let's just not like a huge opportunity costs to give up. If
Malcolm Brogden stays healthy, that money is not unreasonable. But I get it
from the very quickly the Pacers perspective of let's just you know, we have
Haliburton, we have d art Day, we have Ben Mick Math and let's
get rid of brog didn't get off that long term money and pick up a
first round pick in the process. That's the deal that makes sense for both
sides. And I do think between Brogden and Danila Gallinari, I don't know
if they dress address a lot of what sort of ailed them offensively in the
NBA Finals. But like when gallows healthy, I know he's slower, but
he can get to the foul line and create and hit some tough jumpers more
so than Malcolm Brogden ken and I think that could really matter for them.
And just I like the fact that they were willing to use them INIMLI.
This wasn't a team that shot and they shouldn't have just because they made the
freaking NBA Finals. I honestly don't know what you wouldn't like about this offseason
unless you didn't think that they should have gone after Brogden. I did wonder
after the Kevin Durant trade demand came down and you look at the Brogden deal,
was it almost an anticipation of, Oh, would they dangle Jalen Brown
plus Marcus Smart or Derek White and other stuff for Kevin Durant. And we've
since heard that they have done that Jalen Brown and Derek White, and I
think a one first round pick is what Sean's reported. What do you make
of all that? Not trying to factor in like, oh, how does
their off season grade change if they had Kevin Durant, but just in general,
would that like do you like that idea for their team? Or do
you think it's sort of too much of a consolidation for a team that was
so close already? You know, like it depends on what day you catch
me on what my feelings are about, you know, should this team go
for Durant and pay what it's gonna cost. I do think maybe, like
I could see how the Brogden move could have been sort of as part of
an anticipatory plan that Durant's coming. But I wonder if just having that extra
first round picked to move would have mattered more. It just in just in
getting him let alone, you know, leaving aside the fit and how things
might work, Uh once he's on the roster. I just think some of
these packages now I get we're recording this on Monday, that you're seeing that
that just isn't enough for Brooklyn. You're you know, seeing things with like
five first rounders and they you know, the the old line still is out
there if they want an all star player, another really good player, a
bunch of picks. Increasingly, I'm I'm taking the stance that like just to
use Boston because that's the team we're talking about. I don't think I want
to pay what it's going to cost to get Durant, and like, I
don't think I want to pay anything close to it. Yeah, maybe he
puts them over the top, but maybe he's thirty four and maybe like guess
what the you know, the he might not be happy there and that might
not go great. I just he's gonna miss games. And Boston's a special
case because you know, they had so much success last year and figure to
improve just based on the youth of the roster and guys getting into you know,
real prime prime years, but just more generally, I'm getting cooler and
cooler on wanting Durant for what it seems like it's gonna cost on it just
anywhere. I think I'm kind of with you, and it changes unless like
if the nets lower, they're asking price to decide that, Okay, we're
going to rebuild, and so they're not trying to get an all star end
picks. They're willing to accept that Picks package for Boston specifically, though,
like I don't like it in general, Like if the cost just becomes Jalon
Brown and then another salary straight up, it just I don't know that Kevin
Durant, yes, he I would say he elevates your window compared to Jalon
Brown just because of what he does offensively, but for how long? And
I know that title windows can be gone in a flash, and Boston with
the Jaalen Brown Jason Tatum core specifically feels like it's had two or three different
title windows already, unless Jalen Brown is indicated, because we know he's not
going to extend, since that number is just not going to get him anywhere
near his max off one hundred and twenty percent unless he's communicated that he doesn't
want to be there. I find it if I'm Boston hard to make this
deal, and I honestly like especially if you're throwing other stuff on top of
that, and it's not just other stuff, because like the next salary you
send out is going to be a good player. Like there's no just bad
contract on this team right now. Yeah, I think Boston, you know,
we both gave him an a for what they did, so I think
inherent in that is I think we'd both like to see what this team looks
like for a full year. Like so that just just from that perspective too,
like let's not let's not just go superstar hunting and hope that it works.
I think they're They've planned deliberately, made a lot of smart moves,
uh, you know, big and small, and like, I just want
to see this Boston roster, uh, this newly you know, deeper Boston
roster. Uh, get toward you know, you know, at least conference
finals and then maybe back to the finals and see what they can do.
Very quickly though, if they made the trade, let's say it's Derek Hye
Jalen Brown in one first round pick. Would that higher or lower year off
season grade or leave it lateral? Oh, that's a good question. I
don't know if it would change it, honestly, which is weird. But
like for that package, I don't know. I don't know. I'd have
to really think about it some more. I don't think it would change it
significantly. It might go down, honestly, because I if I say it's
going up, I just argue I'm arguing against myself, just having said I
kind of like this Boston roster and I want to see what it does.
Yeah, I think I would leave it the same, just because you are
probably a better team for next season and maybe the one after. But the
combustibility factor feels where it's Kevin Durant, it's just man, that's just Jaalen
Brown is so good, so young, and you it does feel like you're
inherently shortening your window. So I think, let's you just continue using a
mixed house analogies. I think your ceilings higher, but your window is narrower
so and your floor is lower, so we're really messing with this house.
But yeah, I think straight. As for Boston, that was an easy
one. We move on to the next team who is not as easy,
and there's is a grade that is going to change, I would imagine one
way or the other. But the Nets acquired Royce Oneal from the Jazz.
They sent him into the They acquired excuse me, Royce O'Neil into the Harden
traded player exception. They gave up a twenty three first round pick. It's
going to be the worst of Houston, Philly or Brooklyn's next season. They
declined Kessler Edwards's team option, then signed him to a two year, three
point six million dollars deal with a team option on that final season. They
signed Nick Claxton to a two year seventeen point three million dollar deal with two
point eight million dollars of unlikely incentives baked in. They signed t J.
Warren to a one year at minimum deal. Patty Mills opted out and resigned
on a two year thirteen point three million dollar deal. There's one point two
million of unlikely incentives baked in there. They signed Edmund Sumner to a two
year four point two million dollar deal that fully guarantees on January tenth, and
it's non guaranteed in year two. And they signed Ulondius Williams to a two
way contract. Notable exits for this team include Andre Drummond signing with the Bulls,
draw go On Dragas also signing with the Bulls, and David Duke Junior,
and in parenthetical is what the fuck Remaintan's unsigned along with LaMarcus Aldridge and
Blake Griffin. It has to be noted that the Nets also Kyrie Irving picked
up his player option. They didn't agree to an extension, so that is
here. And they have Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, but those two were
forever linked to trade rumors, and there's all this stuff going around about Shawn
Marx and Steve Nash. I have no idea or had no idea how to
grade this team to this point. And do you also, I'm curious,
even before you give us your grade, did you even cake in the reality
of Okay, even if we're just basing it on the move so far,
organizationally, the Nets are on fucking fire. That is the hardest. I
mean, there's a million hard parts about grading this team. And when I
did this in July, this was pre ultimatum from Kevin Durant, obviously,
like the idea that he was going to be moved, and Kyrie too was
out there, but there wasn't the it's Nash and Marks or me, which,
like you said, now the organization is very much on fire. So
I was trying to grade just on what the nets had done, and that
was easier because really shitn't hadn't hit the fan completely yet, and I had
a B minus. Then I think I have to downgrade. Now, I'm
just gonna go a flat sea and so I'll start just with the basics,
leave Durant and Irving out of it and all that stuff. I think their
moves in general were okay. They're like real hits, like Warren on the
minimum. We've you know, talked about where was everybody else on TJ Warren,
you know, several other other for other teams. I think Claxton is
fine at that number. I think Mills I'm kind of biased. I've always
liked Patty Mills. I'm fine with him at that number. The O'Neill trade
didn't make sense to me. But then again, like if you think you
might have Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant back, and if you think Ben Simmons
might be healthy, and if you think you're gonna have a coach and a
lead executive when the season starts, then Royce O'Neil makes more sense than having
a first round pick. So even that is difficult to sort of parse because
we don't really know what this team's like. This team could tank, like
there's a scenario where it trades everything at tanks and has like a quick flip
rebuild next year. I don't know. But if there's also a chance they
try to make the finals, if somehow they get you know, enough talent
back, and then Royce O'Neil matters. So I'm just gonna go see because
I don't know what to do with the Durant and Irving stuff and the general
palace intrigue. I would say, though I don't know if we I think
we maybe diverge on this point a little bit. I'll be curious what you
think. I think. I'm good with the way that Joe Si and management
have handled this. I'm good with like asking for the world for Durant.
I'm good with not just trading Irving for nothing. I'm good with them exercising
what little leverage they have over these star players. What I'm not good with
is what happened years ago when the Nets decided that it was a good idea
to commit to Irving, Like that's what you should have seen this coming situation.
But at the same time, like, I mean, are you going
to say no if you go back and do it again if they gets you,
Kevin Durant, I don't know. It's just it's a mess. I'll
be glad when it's over because I feel like this is a saga that has
gone on for a long time and I still don't have a handle on it,
and that makes me uncomfortable. I don't so Yeah, Like I said,
this one was tough. I gave them a D plus. Though I
liked the Nick Claxton contract. I like bringing back Kessler Edwards. I think
that was obviously a no brainer for them. But what we need to the
Royce O'Neil deal, I'm kind of neutral on. I guess the Nets don't
have enough good defenders on this team. I mean, Ben Simmons is there
to where his role. I do think change is a great deal and are
we now too far gone on Royce O'Neill because he like had to be all
everything to the Jazz and just couldn't do it anymore, like I just you
know, so I'm not sure what to make of that. The other thing
is just like I agree with you that I think the Nets are smart to
not acquiesced to everything these Stars are doing, but you already did, right,
and then to pivot now seems like self or actually it seems futile,
And I don't know what. I also have not liked the way that the
leaks have come out, where it's very clearly in certain things like the Nets
trying to frame it as like there it's like them against the Stars at this
point, and no, you gave Kyrie and Kad this agency from day one,
and to pivot out of it without a concrete plan or being prepared to
suffer the consequences. My grade will change if they get a lot for these
guys or specifically Kevin Durant via trade, but right now, the fact that
they haven't traded them. I understand Kevin duran has four years left of his
contract. You don't trade him or Kyrie Irving just just because at the same
time, like to go into training camp with this looming over your head is
also a disaster and now you just like you failed to draw a line time
and again, and then like now we're trying to redraw it at the weird
times, and it's like, where does it end? And if you were
going to make this decision, shouldn't it have been when Kyrie was actually away
from the team, Like this is when it you really should have went to
nuclear out and then you could have maybe maybe you trade Kadi and Kyrie and
rebuild around James. Are at that point like, I'm just like, you
could have maybe traded Kevin Durant for Ben Simmons, kept James. I don't
know how any of that works, but it feels like they've just misstepped at
so many turns, or at least failed to be consistent with their mentality.
And I do not feel bad that their culture imploded because they decided superstars were
their culture. I also don't like the Patty Mills deal for them. There
was clearly some quid pro quo there that he was going to opt out and
get more money. He did not close the year. Well. I love
the TJ. Warren contract. That's a fantastic flyer. So there are things
to like or be neutral about, but like that's a This was a bad
offseason for them as of right now so far, because I think that my
grade again will go up after we look at the return for Kevin durant end
or Kyrie Irving and not having that concrete direction is a fucking problem. Yeah,
I agree. I think if they get anything close to what the asking
price seems to be from Brooklyn's end, then like this great could go up
a lot because suddenly you you're rid of a guy that wants no part of
being there, which is it's not totally analogous to the Gobert situation, but
it's like this is a lost cause we're trying to get something because otherwise we
have a guy that's probably just gonna hold out. And if you get this
like super star, a young star another like quality starter and four firsts or
whatever, it ends up being like that's I mean, we're talking like into
the ber range easy, maybe maybe even the A range, just because you're
started over. Once Irving's gone, he's gone and you're like a normal ish
team again. Yeah. Look, the other thing that I'm not happy about
is just like why, how like how have you not figured out a way
to bring and I know this is stupid David Duke Junior back like someone who
really showed a lot in Summer League, and he's just floating out there remaining
unsigned. I know that Kevin Durant stuff has to hold up a ton,
but like you can't even hit like on that basic of a move, which
is, oh keep someone who like is a really nice flyer. At this
point, like, I just I don't understand it. They should announce a
huge press conference and it'll just be that they've retained David Duke Jr. Just
for me because we did a podcast where identified him as like one of the
best remaining free agents. So clearly I'm just unattached that. But that's just
not so much is unfinished here, and I think this late in the summer.
I get what they're trying to do, which is why there's the D
plus just the fact that this is all imploded and the Nets either couldn't foresee
this or didn't decide to take a hard line stance sooner and let it get
to this point. And again I agree with what they're doing now. The
fact that camera dress requests or trade. You don't just trade him wherever he
wants to go for nothing. I understand it doesn't work like that, but
this is there are no winners in this situation. They're just zero. Yeah,
so I went D plus you had them in a flat sea? Or
do you give him a C minus. I'm going to see just I mean,
who knows, right, this is a placeholder, let's be honest.
Yeah, that's fair, which means we move on to the New York Knicks
very much not so much a placeholder. This is gonna take a while,
so grant you go grab a cup of coffee. We'll see you in an
hour. The Knicks traded usman Yang number eleven to Okase for denvers two thousand
and twenty three. First, that's a lotto protected through two thousand and twenty
five, then turns into two seconds. They also acquired Detroit's two twenty three
first top eighteen protected for the next two years, then top thirteen protected,
top eleven protected, top nine protected in two thousand and twenty seven, then
it turns into a second round pick. And they also got Washington's two thousand
and twenty three. First that's lotto protected for two years, top ten protected
in two thousand and twenty five, and top eight protected in two thousand and
twenty six before turning into two seconds. They then acquired jail And Durhan at
number thirteen from the Charlotte Hornets for that Denver first round pick and three two
thousand and twenty three second rounders. It's the Nix's own, Utah's two thousand
and twenty three second, and then the least favorable of OKC Dallas, Washington
and Miami's I believe two thousand and twenty three second. They then traded Jalen
Durhan number thirteen and Kemba Walker to Detroit from Milwaukee's two thousand and twenty five
first round pick that is top four protected. They also traded in Newrylands nowel
Alec Burks, who are both based on expiring contracts since the third year on
their deals or next year on their deals is non guaranteed or as team options.
So they traded those two six million in cash, twenty twenty three second
round pick, which was Detroit's own, and a twenty twenty six second round
pick from from Detroit or Minnesota. That's got to be wrong. So in
twenty twenty six first round pick two the Pistons for basically nothing. It's a
fake second rounder in the draft rights to Nikola Radchevik. They signed Jalen brought
Its into a four year, one hundred and four million dollars deal that will
start at and I think this is important, twenty seven point seven million,
and then it declines for the next two years. The final year is a
player option that would be his age twenty nine season, and it projects to
be worth seventeen percent of the entire salary cap. By the way, he
also has a ten percent trade bonus. They signed Isaiah Hartenstein to a two
year, seventeen million dollar deal, five percent trade bonus, two point one
million dollars in unlikely incentives. Now I want to frame this in totality,
because that's a ton. In the end, the Knicks used the number eleven,
pick six second rounders, one of which is so let's say five second
rounders, one of which is top fifty five protected, and six million dollars
in cash to offload three expiring deals, scoop up three conditional first rounders,
and then signed Jalen Brunson and Isaiah Hartenstein. So that is just the order
of operations for them. They signed Mitchell Robinson to a four year, sixty
million dollars deal starts at seventeen million dollars and declines all the way to thirteen
million and year four, his age twenty seven season, he will be the
twelfth highest paid center in the league. Next year, they signed Jerich Will
Sims to a three year, five point seven million dollar deal, partially guaranteed
in years one and two, non guaranteed in year three. They signed for
Ron Hunt to a two way contract, and they signed Trevor Keels to a
two way contract. Their notable exits include Taj Gibson, who they waved he
signed with the Wizards, and Ryan Archie Dacino remains unsigned. Whoof I need
a minute to catch my breath there, Grant, what grad did you give
the Knicks? So this just full disclosure. This was a C plus back
in July, but having kind of lived with it for a little longer and
kind of needing what you did here, framing, framing this whole series of
transactions in totality, my official grade now is down to a C minus,
which, like you know, not a major difference. But so just a
lot happened. Some of it was good, some of it was bad,
but most of it And I'm afraid I'm gonna steal your point on this because
I think this is roughly where you're at. This does not a scream.
We have a we have a coherent plan long you know, we don't know
what the Knicks five year plan is, so so like just to take the
big ones. I think Brunson at that number is fine. I think you've
definitely said and I agree that the conditions at least with respect to offensive spacing
in Dallas were way better than they're going to be with the Knicks, and
so he may struggle a little bit. I think he's a guy that really
needs the room because of his lack of size, to kind of get into
his bag, especially if he gets into kind of the mid post area where
he has, you know, such an incredible like array of fakes and stuff.
If if everything is just compressed in there, I think maybe he runs
into some trouble. We love Hartenstein. That's a fine number. I think
he's quietly one of the best backup gigs in the league. There's an argument
to be made that he's better than Mitchell Robinson, So that makes the Mitchell
Robinson signing real bad. The twelfth highest paid center, he is not the
twelfth best center in the league. It's not close. And that's not even
considering his durability concerns. So I think I'm just all told this is just
slightly below average, and most of it, like most of it is because
I still don't really have a sense of like the what the goal is in
all this. I get it, they like Brunson, they really wanted him,
they got him, and they didn't really overpay that much, especially I
mean maybe not at all, especially with the declining structure. So I just
I just don't fully get what the Knicks are doing. But like I think
I said this back in July when I did grades, like anyone that's you
know, thinking if this is an f or this is crazy. I don't
know. This is a straw man argument, but like you gotta remember how
bad some of them Nick, like, how totally aimless some of the Knicks
offseasons have been in the past. This is this is a series of like
dubious moves in some cases, but some are like objectively I think pretty good.
It's just like what is it's you know, to what end? Basically
is my unanswered questions. So it's a C minus for me. I wonder
the C minus as well. This is terrible podcasting because you can at all,
and I echo everything you said. I did flirt with going lower just
because I do think this show is a lack of a coherent vision, as
you said, And it's just like it's not the Jalen Brunson deal, it's
because the Knicks were the one to offer it. And what does if you
think Jalen Brunson is your best player right now? What does that make you?
And so looming over all, this, of course is the Donovan Mitchell
trade talks. That doesn't change too much for me unless Danny Ainge loses the
trade. I don't think it will necessarily be a bad trade for the Knicks.
But the way I framed it is Dustley, And yes, I just
said Dustley, dost thou protest about me saying Dustley, if you acquire Donovan
Mitchell, you still need to acquire Donovan Mitchell's equal or superior because Jalen Brunson
cannot be the second best player on your team when Donovan Mitchell's the first,
you know who he can be the second best player on your team for the
fucking Mavericks, when Luca don Chich is the best player on your team.
It's not the contract. The contract is fine I will say, why did
he need a player option and why is there a trade bonus in there?
It's declining, So maybe that's the concession you make, and that's smart.
It's the same thing with Mitchell Robinson's deal, which is why I noted it.
Mitchell Robinson in year four of that deal at thirteen million dollars, maybe
that ends up being a bargain. That's also a deal they shouldn't have signed
because who was giving Mitchell Robinson sixty million dollars. That feels like an issue
of oh, the Knicks, we're doing him a favor because they didn't decline
his team option last year to make him restricted free agent. They didn't sign
them to an extension during the season because they wanted to prioritize their flexibility.
That's not no, you don't do that, Like, yeah, I'm gonna
ding you for that. I didn't like that. Love the Hartnerstein signing best
one of the best signings of the offseason. I'm curious to see, like
how much the Knicks actually use him there though, But it's just like,
yeah, this is unfinished to be honest, because of the Donovan Mitchell stuff.
But what does it even say Donovan Mitchell and John Brunson make you what
like this team is right now if we're going through the East, I don't
think the Knicks are a top six team. Like there's Philly, there's Boston,
there's Milwaukee, there's Miami. I'm forgetting there's Toronto. I would definitely
have ahead of them. Would you have Atlanta ahead of them? Like that's
a team you lead? I probably would at this point. So they're six
right there, and I feel like I'm forgetting a really obvious I think Cleveland's
better. Cleveland certainly in the mix, like is they're probably in the same
territory right now if we're being honest as Washington and Charlotte like sort of the
what the fuck is happening here? Teams? And I don't think any there's
no single move they made that was detrimental this offseason. Let me make that
clear. There was none. I just the extent they went to like enter
mediocrity or sub mediocrity or stay in sub mediocrity is just troubling. And what
I really don't like here is even if the team is left alone, there's
still like this ambiguity surrounding Well, what do you think RJ. Barrett is
because now you've acquired someone else who needs to have not only he doesn't need.
Jalen Brunson can hit a set three point. I want to make that
clear. But he's at his best with the ball in his hands, working
inside the arc at this point. So is RJ. Barrett at this point.
So is Julius Randall. There's a chance you're actually going to add Donovan
Mitchell to that mix without subtracting either of those players. Did you give Jalen
Brunson enough space to work with inside the arc? Hell? No, no,
you don't have that right now. So I'm not preemptively degrading them for
the Mitchell trade that might actually help their roster because it's going to be a
huge talent boost. But what are you angling for here? And I think
there they're saving grace can be This is if the Donovan Mitchell trade includes fewer
of their own picks or fewer picks in general than we thought, and they're
able to go out and acquire another star. And that's I'm not I'm not
accounting for that not happening and saying this is why they're at a C minus.
There's just a complete and total absence of inspiration here and again, Jalen
Brunson is really good. This is not the player that the Knicks should have
hitched their wagon too. And also, like I think you can argue going
after Jalen Brunson, even though the offensive fit would maybe be divine, I
would say probably a little bit less than divine. But if you were gonna
go get Donovan Mitchell and you knew this was coming, We knew Donovan Mitchell
to the Knicks was like a thing that's been out there for years, why
signed Jalen bro Like, you could argue the Jalen Brunson signing is more pointless
now that the mixus are in the Donovan Mitchell sweep staces. Well, yeah,
I think so charitably this you know, just getting Donovan Mitchell adds ups
the talent and like the grid goes up for that reason. But charitably,
like if this all is you know, if this was all maneuvering to get
a couple of extra assets or something to get Mitchell and the fit works,
then like, yeah, I guess then we have. It's it's harder for
us to criticize like a lack of a coherent plan if like Mitchell was part
of it all along at least, like that's part of you know, something
that had been in the works for a while. I do think though,
I kind of hate the Mitchell Brunson fit. I think it's too small.
I think, uh, like you you you minimize, as you alluded to
the on ball game of like the three other most important players on the roster,
so the like if so, it's just to take the other side of
the whole, like, is there a coherent plan argument if Mitchell's your guy,
then I don't know how much since the rest of the roster makes like
at all, So I a lot of the pieces would go. You know
that we're referring to Barrett potentially being one of them back to Utah and a
Mitchell deal, but we don't know, we don't know what that's gonna look
like. So I am Can I just say I'm looking forward to the next
team because it's a lot simpler, because we've done a bunch in a row
lately that are really hard to kind of unpack. Uh yeah, I just
don't. Could you see very quickly on this, do you see a scenario
in which the Knicks grade could go? Is the Nicks grade after the Donovan
Mitchell sweepstakes is over for you more likely to go up or down. I
think probably up, but there's yeah, I don't know how high, but
there's it really depends. I don't know what they're gonna give up. I
don't know. It's almost like it's such a cop out, but like I'd
like to see how the fit works on the floor before I'm make an off.
See that's not really a luxury we have in this situation. But I
think it could go up just just the talent, like because you know Mitchell,
like you said, is not an a number one guy on a title
threat. But and now you parent below that, now you pair you would
pair them with Brunson, where the two your two league guards, they're best
attributes like they're they're I would say they're top two offensive attributes. It's not
passing like you're not gonna pass again the top two things that either of those
two guys don't they're not. I don't think either of them are bad playmakers.
I want to make that clear, but like neither of them are floor
Like is if you get Donovan Mitchell and Jalen bruns In, is Derek Rose
still the best passer on your team. I'm a serious question, am I
is that that's a I mean, that's a problem that we have that we
have to we have to try to decide that I don't know. I mean,
like, it's not it's not if they keep quickly. It's not quickly.
It's definitely not Julius Randall. There's like Julie, there's like a Russell
Westbrook nows to the way that Julius Randall pa. It's like a last resort
rather than the play. Right, Well, what you're gonna gets a lot
some Knicks fans saying like, look how many assists the average Like no,
no, no, that's not even what I mean, Like, I know,
I know what you mean. I'm afraid that some other people might not.
Uh so C minuses across the board there, I think it's more likely
to go up to So there's like I just there's you will be able to
understand more of the Knicks vision, whether they're actually committed to not being great
or actually have a path to being great after the Mitchell trade. And that's
just the fact. So if you want to go incomplete, I think a
C minus is fair. If you wanted to bump it up to a C.
I wouldn't argue, but you're right. The Sixers are a lot easier.
Let me throw their transaction list up on the screen. The Sixers traded
number twenty three, which was David Roddy and Danny Green, to the Grizzlies
for Danthey Melton, who was two years and sixteen point three million dollars left
on his deal. They signed Daniel House to a two year eight point four
million dollars deal the player there's a player option on year two. It was
for the full bi annual exception. They signed PJ. Tucker to a three
year thirty three million dollars deal that was the full non tax payramid level exception,
and he has a twenty twenty four twenty twenty five player option at the
age of thirty nine. They are also hardcapped because they use the non tax
paymid level exception. James hard To opted out and signed a two year sixty
eight point six million dollars deal a twenty twenty three twenty twenty four player option.
The NBA is investigating the Sixers for tampering slash cap circumvention because of it.
Also note the Knicks that's did you the Knicks being investigating them. He
is investigating them for tampering with Jalen Brunson as well. And just like the
audacity to hire his dad as an assistant, even though his dad has a
track record of being an assistant when that whole thing is happening in the backdrop
is just I almost applaud it because it's just it's so fucking brazen, But
so that should have been noted as part of that. Jalen Brunson is not
the player I want to tamper for. It is basically what I mean there.
The Sixers signed Travilla and Queen to a two year, three point six
million dollars deal that will guarantee and fall on January tenth. The second years
non guaranteed. They picked up the two million dollars option on Shake Milton,
and they signed Michael Foster Junior too an Exhibit ten deal notable exits, and
I know Sixers fans will be mad, or said DeAndre Jordan signed with the
Nuggets. I r I p to DJ's reign in Philly and then Paul Millsap
remains unsigned. Talk about a quick fall for Paul Millsapp. I was like
right up until he his last season in Denver. I was just like,
this guy's gonna play forever. What grade did you give Philly. It's it's
another flat A for me. So that's two in this division. I think
just to take the other side first, Like maybe you're concerned that that you
know, the depth behind and bead at center is a little wanting. I
mean, just go find how many different teams have we already said, like
just go find Go get Hassan Whiteside. You just go get somebody that because
like the reality is if Embid misses significant time, this team is not doing
anything anyway. So just get a guy that you can play seven, eight,
ten minutes in big games, and I think you're fine. Yeah,
Like just getting Tuck hilarious, by the way, is having a player option
at thirty nine, which is what he's gonna have, Like pretty pretty likely
he's picking that up. I think Tucker is a huge addition. I ding
the heat for losing him. I don't know how realistic it was for him
to end up anywhere, but Philly it seems like that was kind of not
not done but close to it. And then House and Melton I think are
both guys, I could envision closing games. Uh so, like you've added
three starter slash rotation level airs. Uh you. And also with the tampering
thing for Harden's new deal, I feel like, yeah, anytime you're getting
investigated in this particular case, like it's a sign you did something like really
well, like a little too well. So I'm I you know, like,
yeah, it's almost like a badge of honor not quite in it.
Then the Nixon Brunson, Yeah, it's in a like there's the Sixers are
way better. There are still risks like Harden might actually be washed and and
and B could get hurt, but like that's not an offseason thing. So
so they just got a ton better and added a bunch of defense, added
some shooting. Like I you know, I have no no knits to pick
here. Yeah, I think like the PJ. Tucker deal is just like
another team would have given him that right. And so if you're just confident
that you're going to work within the constraints of the hardcap, which I think
you can be confident with because you didn't have all this draft equity to trade
anyway and any deal because you have to buy his Harris if you were to
make something. Uh, It's like I don't want say it's easy to work
with him the hard cap. But if there was a team that just wanted
anything attached to to Bias Harris to get value, like you can work it
so that you're staying within the hard cap. I love their offseason, maybe
a little twenty eighteen Rocketsy for me, just like, let's run it back
with them. But you got James Harden too. I don't think that this
needs to be a precedent if we're gonna start asking, oh, is Lebron
gonna well, is Anthony Davis gonna take less and his next deal or Lebron
after his extension kicks in, gonna take less in his next contract to help
the Lakers get a third start. That should never be the expectation here.
But they got James Harden to take less, and honestly, if they circumvented
the salary cap in the process, I don't really fucking care, you know
what. I like, what is the You know, if if he wasn't
going to take a pay cut, they would have signed him anyway. And
if it's like a handshake deal under the table that oh, we're just gonna
pay you next year. Well, hey, guess what just happened with the
Clippers Visa with Reggie Jackson and Nicholas Patum. This is I know it's a
different caliber of player, but if it's happening at a lower scale, it's
and I'm not saying this is a kin to the Nuggets. They had DeAndre
Jordan like in the bag in mid June, which is just like, imagine
tampering for DeAndre Jordan. I get there are levels and dimensions to how tampering
works. I just I can't bring myself to care until you actually like make
an example out of a team. And I also don't think it's fair though,
to make an example out of a team unless it's done not uniformly,
but in conjunction with hitting a bunch of teams at once. Because look at
what happened with the Bulls and Lonzo Ball or the like. You can't like
pretend that that actually cares. And you scuttled the Bugdanomitch deal for the Bucks.
That's like the biggest I guess penalty a team is suffered, not what
they actually like we're fined of that or where they cost them a second round
pick if anything like the deal was revoked, and so unless you're going to
come in and revoke these contracts all of a sudden, I just don't care.
And yes to the sixers, Actually, they just make so much more
sense on the court right now. And they're also kind of set up to
where Doc Rivers can't fuck up the backup center rotation now, which I think
is important because you're you're either going play PJ. Tucker as a small ball
five in those minutes or we're gonna actually get to see like a lot of
Paul Reid. So I think that that's, you know, important. I
love the Damp Meltain pickup. That's someone who he didn't look great in the
playoffs with minute with Memphis, excuse me, but like he's hit the three
well over the past two seasons and he will defend his butt off. And
what you've essentially done is said, Hey, we're gonna surround Joel and Bead
and James Harden with guys who can defend and capably hit threes. There's no
like lights out prime Kyle Korver on this team. No rookie there's not even
a rookie year Landry Shammitt on this team or whatever year he ends up in
Philly. He's been around the block so many times you can't even remember,
but you have enough shooting. And I also think it's not unreasonable to expect
James Harden to be better. This is like he's he's finally not in Houston
or Brooklyn. He's not dealing with any sort of injuries. Over the offseason,
he took a pay cut, which seems to resonate with me that I
don't think he should have. But then he gets it and like he kind
of understand it's like this is my last shot at of like people have already
turned on him and think that he's a poser or can't perform in the playoffs.
I think he understands that now, which is only good for the Sixers.
Whether he should have actually taken a pay cut, that's what the players
union to talk about in amongst themselves. But I'm like, he might be
a sneaky great MVP bet this year, just the odds that he's laying and
you could probably like cash out early on because he's playing so well. I
think this team is I don't know if they're Tier one contenders now, but
I think they're now in Tier two, and to do that when you didn't
really have much to work with in the like like heading into the off season.
I think that's a that's a big deal. So I don't know if
I said my grade, but I want a flat A for the I'll go
a minus because it's like, did PJ. Tucker need the player option at
age there? But again it's like, no, I'm going a Another team
would have given him that deal, So point to me the move that doesn't
make sense here. Yeah, I like, I'm relatively speaking, I'm pretty
low on hardened, but I agree with what you said that, like,
at the very least we can we can agree that he's better positioned to succeed
with this roster than he's been really at any time since things were really going
well in Houston, because it's just like you said it, it's it's really
good defensive players around him who like ideally don't get the ball unless they're shooting
open threes. And then instead of Clint Capella, you have Joel Embiid.
So like I'm just comparing to like, yeah, this is Rockets East now,
and some of the guys are a little older than you might like,
I mean, Rockets Rockets, West Rockets. Actual Rockets worked pretty well for
until they started messing with things. So this arguably is like a version of
that team that just happens to have an MVP candidate center, which was never
the case, uh, you know for the actual Rockets over the last you
know, six seven, eight years. So I mean, I think that
the number for Harden still actually having said that, like that might just be
like was he gonna get more than not? Certainly not this offseason because there
just wasn't any money, But like, what is his actual value based on
how things have looked the last couple of years. That's another like big unknown
because you don't know how much the give a shit factor really matters. I
guess my whole thing is just like if there were teams that wanted to compete
or could talk themselves into that they could compete and had cap space, and
James Harden was willing to sign anywhere, he would have gotten the MAX.
But like, we're at the point where players are making so much money,
Do I expect them to start taking fifteen million dollars pay cuts in a single
season? No, But like at some point, like the richer you are,
like every dollar matters less, you might still be obsessed with it and
how much money he makes off the court is one of those guys not advocating
for it. I just I can't bring myself the care except to from the
side of the sixers where it's well, James Harden at you know, an
average annual value technically over the next two years of thirty four million dollars makes
so much sense? Yeah, because that's not even you know, he'll be
making about the equivalent of like a twenty five percent max next year if he
picked up his player option, or is about the equivalent of a twenty five
percent max this year, like close to it. That's like all of a
sudden good value. Are you like, do you think James Harden is You're
low on Harden So I get like in a vacuum. And it's the way
it works sort of. These players being able to make more as they get
older. Is it's counterintuitive, but I guess it's also agist to say that
they shouldn't, but they're not, you know, making the most money when
you're in your for PJ. Tucker is going to have the highest paid salary
of his career at age thirty nine in this industry that doesn't make any sense
technically, but just like relative to what you think James Harden is now like
thirty four million whatever that number is, Like, that's pretty great value for
the Sixers. And it's the length of the deal or the lack of length
of the deal that's the that's the big deciding factor for me, because like
just to get back to you know, are we concerned about this being a
precedent where guys you know, the Nicholas Patum and now the hardened situation,
Like it won't be a precedent if if this is a handshake thing and Harden
opts out and then they give him the full max and like he's got awful
for the length of that deal, nobody's getting Like there will not be a
line of teams like trying to get you know, just past the prime superstars
and doing these wink wink things like that. So there's there's a real chance
that this sets the precedent for like we're never going to do this handshake bullshit
again with another star that has like some dubious conditioning and you know, career
trajectory issues. So yeah, to twenty five percent of the cap, roughly
like you said, that's okay, and just knowing that like at worst you
can get out of this after next year if just like he just doesn't have
it anymore. I well, actually worse would be if they fully max him
out for I'm not figuring another tampering investigation or salary cap cir convention investigation if
there everything's absolved now, but then he does up down inside for the max
after having a crappy year. Yeah, that's tough, that's tough. What
did you end up giving them? Again? Just to name this is terrible
podcasting. I'm about to deviate from your next grade on the Raptors just to
make sure that we have some sort of disagreement. Let me throw them up
on this green here. The tront Raptors notable moves include signing Daddy is Young
to a two year sixteen million dollar deal. Only one million is guaranteed in
year two. They signed Otto Porter Junior to a two year twelve point three
million dollar deal. It's a twenty twenty three, two twenty four player option
on that. They use less than the big mL E to get him,
which is wild, and it helps them award the hardcap, which is significant
to this note, which is they drafted Christian Coloco at number thirty three.
Per Raptors fans on the YouTube comment they think he's going to be the second
greatest NBA player of all time. He does remain unsigned, though, in
part because they're trying to remain flexible under the hardcap, since they would probably
need to use the mid level except part of the what's remaining of their mid
level exception to sign him, and if you go above the midi mL E,
you're going to be hardcapped, and they are looming in the Kevin Durant
sweepstakes. That is my point. They signed Chris Bruschado with three year,
thirty five point three million dollar deal. My guy getting paid. It's fully
guaranteed. Signed DJ Wilson to a two year, four point six million dollar
deal that fully guarantee is on opening night and year to is non guaranteed.
They signed Justin Shampetty to a two year at three point six million dollar deal,
also guarantee as an opening night and year two is non guaranteed. SphI
mckailu picked up his player option. They signed Juan Hernan Goomis to a one
year Veterans minimum deal. They signed Ron Harper Junior and Jeff Doughton to to
two way contracts, and they signed Gay Brown to an Exhibit ten deal.
They waived Rmani Brooks as part of their notable exits and both essak Bonga and
this one is excusable. Utah wants an abby remain unsigned grant one. The
Raptors were like, I know they weren't mega transactions, but going through it
when I was doing it, they were busier than I was expected. But
what great did you give? The Raptors? Ultimately, I give him a
bee just everything. All these signings are fine. I just st don't know
how consequential any of them are. Like, but the you know, getting
Porter, I think Porter was I suspect that he was going to be one
of the most sought after free agents in the league, and to get him
for less than the full mL E is like, you know, pretty impressive.
But obviously there were some like off court, you know, he's I
think it's his girlfriend or his fiance as from Toronto, So that seems to
have been a factor, because I can't believe the market of Toronto has pull,
is what you're saying. Well, it seems that it's probably should,
right, it should have cool. That's a cool place to be. But
like I've just because we have to, I gotta believe that there was there
was a full mL E offer out there for him. There should have been,
Yeah, there there should have been if there wasn't. So that's I
got no problem with that. Bouchet feels like a little rich, but like
that's that's a totally manageable number. I'm fine with that. I think if
I had to, I guess, and I have to. I do have
to like ding them a little bit because I gave them a B instead of
something better. It's like, are we sure that the playmaking and point guard
situation is was sufficiently addressed? Because I think that it wasn't. Is that
like yeah, like because I guess, you know, you say, well,
Scotty Barnes is gonna up the playmaking and we can get some more of
that from even like that Young has had phenomenal playmaking seasons from a front court
position, so you might just kind of piece it together there. But it
feels still like van Bleet is just kind of overtaxed and is there's not like
a good replacement for what he does on the roster I get, you know,
leave it to Toronto to kind of try to figure out innovative ways to
sort of make up for shortcomings you know that they have in the roster makeup,
but I would have liked to have seen maybe just just go get me
like a backup point guard that I'm sure I can trust, because otherwise I'm
not sure where because Van Fleet plays a ton of minutes, and he's played
a ton of minutes forever, and I just don't know that they're fully stocked
behind him to kind of weather an injury or trying to like take it easier
on him for once. Yeah, that's a good point. I gave him
a B plus because I don't know what to dislike about their off season ultimately.
And the auto Porter jun to me is if it's not a steal,
like it's it's going to be fine. And does he is he a capslock
shoot or no? But it'll space the floor, gives you different options on
defense. You know how I feel about Chris Boucher. So I thought that
was a good deal for them, and Daddy is young, and in fact
that it's like so low risk. Beyond next season, they still need more
floor spacing. And they need more like self creation and preferably they need to
get both of those quality. He's in the same players, just the way
the roster is built. But they've made themselves better. Still, they didn't
address their biggest weakness, but they're better, They're deeper, and their bench
was a problem last year. I think creation off the bench will still be
an issue. What I really I'm not sure as being talked about enough,
is they've I know that they're mentioned in the Kevin Durant stuff as well too,
but they're also like they have all these mid end contracts now to trade,
which they just didn't before. So when we get to December January,
it's not, oh, if we want to make a move, we have
to trade Gary Trent Junior or o g and and Obi. No, you
do have Chris Bouchet's twelve point seven million dollars salary, you have Daddy is
young making a point two. You have out of Porter Junior up there,
So I don't I wouldn't move out of Porter Junior. I would I will
never move Chris Bouche. I would make it. I would give him a
no trade clause if you though. But like I think you've increased your optionality
to improve the team because you don't it doesn't have to be a mega blockbuster
anymore mid season, so they're almost It was funny because they were like uniquely
built too. Oh you would get Kevin Durant or Donovan Mitchell in a trade
or you really don't make any trade of consequence because you don't have like the
middle ground. I think they set themselves up for that while getting a little
better. I'm with you. I would have liked to have seen them skew
more towards capslock, italics, bold shooter or creator and they did not.
But they are to me a better deeper team than they ended the season as
And if we got a fully healthy Raptors team last year, or even an
eighty percent healthy Raptors team last year, I think they would have been even
more dangerous than they actually ended up being by the end of the season.
Yeah, so just last thing on Toronto for me, I guess, like
big picture, I kind of I respect that they sort of ran it back
more or less with the experimental like position lists. We got a bunch of
forwards thing because there were injuries last year and like there were real problems rebounding
and the playmaking stuff you mentioned. But I think I just think you can
bank on Barnes getting better. You can bank on a chew of getting better.
And I just like the they didn't They didn't panic and like just go
like we need a shooter, we need a point guard, you know,
and go conventional. I think, like one more year at least of seeing
if this specific, very specific roster setup can work. I think it's I
think it's worth it. So I like that they as much as I criticize,
you know, Van Fleet's kind of out there on his own. I
like that that Toronto kind of stuck to its guns and is going to at
least give another year of this kind of roster building. Yeah, that's that's
actually a really good point too. I didn't want to see really quickly,
where do you fall on? Since they aren't involved in the Kevin Durant sweeps,
says, are you team? I would trade Scotty Barnes for him?
Would you trade Pascal Siakam for him? If they're not willing to include either
one of those guys, do you even see a pathway to them getting a
deal done? It would be trent O Gean and Obe and their draft essentially
probably not. I think, uh, I don't think I would trade Barnes
for Durant just because of the costs that like, they're completely divergent developmental trajectories
and maybe Siakam, but I don't it just based on what Brooklyn's asking for.
Like I feel like if Barnes isn't in the deal, that's we're not
really talking anymore, right, because I don't feel like Toronto has the same
level of willingness to just give up all its draft picks. Just that's that's
like not something that historically I think Messiah Jerry has done. No, and
I'm with I agree that you shouldn't trade Scotty Barnes for Coming Durant. I
also agree that if then the Nets are going to take a draft pick centric
trade, I wouldn't take the Raptors offer just because I'd rather short like almost
any other team's future than the Raptors, because they're so good at just finding
ways to add guys on the margins or add value with Messiah Ujerry, whereas
if you're with Phoenix, who is set up really well. At the same
time, like historically they're a less trustworthy organization than Toronto, and so you'd
rather probably be invested in their long term draft picks than then Miami's, let's
say, or even Toronto's. Yeah, that's a good point. So I
gave them a B plus. You gave them a B to re app here
very quickly. We both gave the Celtics a's. We both gave the Nets
C minuses. We book this is terrible podcast, and we both gave the
Knicks C minuses. We both gave the Sixers a flat A. I gave
the Toronto Raptors a B plus. Grant gave them a B. This was
awesome. If this is your first time listening or checking us out, please
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I faver script beeverishly leave you with the shadow through one the only frank La Keena