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The opinions expressed by Chayo Busquets are
supported by his extensive experience as a family

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therapist and in the previous analysis of
the cases presented here welcome. This is

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Chayo with you in Joya. We
begin very good afternoon to everyone as I

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am Chayo Busquetcha this Chayo with you
and we are ready to start today'

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s program. And well, it' s a day. What can I

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tell you, it' s a
day. We' ve been working on

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it this week, but today'
s the day. Today is the day

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and, as I have been telling
you from previous dates, on this day

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we wanted to do a different program
than we have been doing over time,

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with the 8th of March International Women' s Day, a day that,

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as I always remind you, is
not a day to congratulate. It'

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s not a day for the same
women to get confused thinking it' s

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chocolate flower day, because it doesn' t go around and not because it

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' s got anything wrong. I
insist on it all the time, but

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why. And I use the continually
comparative with this, Congratulating a woman on

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March 8 is the equivalent of congratulating
a student on October 2. And we

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have to be very clear about the
scheme of this day. And in this

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day' s scheme. You know
why I came to announce to you that

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I have a guest who makes me
enter into ambivalent feelings, because I am

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very excited to have her on the
show, because you know that we have

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reviewed your book along with your co- writer. They' re not everyday

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micromachisms. We check it many times
here in the program we recommend it very

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much and today it was made to
me and I have it here at the

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same time that it is a day
that moves me to the insides, because

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it is a day of much reflection
and more with the days that we are

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being like this, is that yes, I am in the midst of the

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emotion and the commotion. I have
to admit, because they' re going

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to hear me all of a sudden
excited and I want to clarify why,

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because it' s the subject.
Claudia, welcome. Thank you very much,

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Chal It is the honor to be
here and to be able to talk

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with you, for I thank you
infinitely. She is clearly here on behalf

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of herself, Claudia de la Garza, but also of Ves' s tooth,

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who is her writing companion, and
today she came to me with a

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news note. How good I tell
you that I' m going to sound

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excited despite the day it is but
I' m going to present them to

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you as God commands. Claudia de
la Garza is an art historian, PhD

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in social sciences, specializing in gender
studies, teacher and researcher on issues of

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fashion, contemporary art and feminism.
He is fascinated by the many ways in

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which we use clothing to create identities
and transform our body into a place of

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dissent. This word is going to
be very important and today we will surely

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talk about it. He writes essay
and has found in curatorship and critical museography

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a platform of enunciation through the development
of numerous exhibitions at national and international level

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with social themes in museums as memory
and tolerance, Casa de la Memoria Indómita,

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the MUCA, the Muca Campus,
Shanghai Art Museum and well, come

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other museums here that I will confess, Claudia that always and people who hear

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me know it, I am nefarious
pronouncing, but museums in Madrid, museums

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in Tokyo, in Shanghai, among
others. And she' s currently a

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coordinator. Well, when you were
writing, I wasn' t the coordinator

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of the Unam Museum today, but
today you' re there, it'

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s all still coordinating. Yes,
yes, it' s there in coins,

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in the Historical Center of Mexico City. There it is. And he

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likes disclosure, because it has to
do with it and they have a second

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book. These two women, these
two great writing these subjects, body maps.

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So we have to run for it
and check it out. It'

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s editorial lumen and well, what' s March 8th for someone who,

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as you' ve written on these
issues, on March 8th happens to me

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a bit like you really gets excited, because it' s a day we

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go out, get together, meet
with other partners to point out all that

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' s bothering us. We go
out on the street, there' s

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this whole festive part also at a
point of being together and being there,

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of taking these spaces. But at
the same time, what we are also

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pointing to is the missing ones.
We are pointing out very strong things,

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we are pointing out violence, we
are pointing out inequality and I think that

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is a long way to go and
that is also a challenge for us,

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no but it is also weighing us
down, we do not miss and we

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are very sore at the ones that
are missing. So I think it'

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s a day, no doubt,
of many, of many emotions, because

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one day that seems fundamental to me
and what you explain at the beginning of

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the program, it seems to me
that it' s very important, that

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we understand it, it' s
not also, uh, to put ourselves

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on the wrong track. But this
day is to think about our rights,

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it is to think about a world
of equality, and not just women.

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We have to think about this,
it' s up to us as a

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society. We have to think about
what is missing for us to live in

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a world where we can be more
free, where we are more equal,

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where we have equal opportunities. And
I think that' s what it'

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s about, not no, not
to be told congratulations, ladies, but

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to think that we all do in
our lives for what, so that those

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around us, of us are better
off being all us. I mean,

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that' s it, that'
s it, without a doubt, without

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a doubt, Claudia, and that' s what the show is going to

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be about. About that. But
of that that although you have not been

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violent, that although you have not
been beaten, that although you have not

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had to beg for help in those
terrifying moments that have lived so many women

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today, in everyday life, what
is happening to us unnoticed and of what,

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even we, who today go out
to take the streets, we are

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also being part of that we are
also going to talk today with Claudia,

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because we are back here in Chayo
with you on this 8th of March,

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talking with Claudia de la garza authorco
along with identity of setback of they are

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not daily micro machismos. How this
came about, because, on the one

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hand, you hear the micro not
and then it seems that it doesn'

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t matter. But at first there
is denial. They' re not everyday

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micro- machisms. Exactly notice that
this book arose because there was an interest

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in this and the publisher looked for
Irendira, who in turn invited me at

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that time took we shared a space
of classes. They were just giving classes

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in genre studies in art and they
were looking at my student and invited me

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to a thing that excites me less
pride and I feel so honored of such

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a bright moon. He invited me
to do a project like this at one

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time and they told us we created
a book of machis, micromachismos and we

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investigated, we went to Luis Bonino, who coined this term. We were

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going to but the term micromachisms,
which has been used so much and which

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is useful to make these things visible, useful, these experiences of violence that

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suddenly seem to pass there unnoticed.
But we made a lot of noise just

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this microno e particle. We always
think they' re little girls, they

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' re those little machismos and then
they' re smaller. But I was

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arguing like we didn' t.
We think we can talk about little machismos.

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We can talk about machismos that occur
every day of everyday machismos, of

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machismos that, as we live constantly
we do not see, become invisible,

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but not small. Why, because
even if they are so everyday, we

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have them so normalized, it has
an impressive impact, they have a great

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macro impact on our lives and what
they have to do with decisions that are

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made, with lives that can,
that is, they can be a matter

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of life or death. Not thinking
that a person feels that women should dress

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in a way or they should go
out in a way or they should uh

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and drive in a way or speak
in a certain vocabulary and reach a woman

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who doesn' t. If I' m a decision maker, don'

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t I tell you I' m
a woman, men, that' s

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a decision maker and I think women
are going to act in a certain way?

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I can say no she was to
blame. Not her, I mean,

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my influence. You can say no. I don' t accept it

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in this workplace. I do not
accept it in this academic space. Because

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she talks like that, because women
should dress in this other way, because

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of issues she might not even be
realizing that she has, but that she

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has them there so deeply rooted,
that she is being biased, that she

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is leaving people out and that it
has a tremendous impact. Not these economic

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decisions. We suddenly see every product
that comes out. Let' s say

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thinking that women should use this or
that or consume quis products. Not then,

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we can' t in any way
talk about micro talk, but we

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do talk about what happens all the
time and that we have them as you

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mentioned at the beginning. Even when
we leave, we are very clear that

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women must have the same rights,
that we must have certain freedoms, that

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we must. Sometimes we don'
t fuck about saying things, scorning someone

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because they did so, questioning someone
why, why they got to that post,

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not or why they dress like that, why they came out so late,

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not this kind of thing alone.
They eat this book a lot with

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a lot of people and many times
they tell me, well, yes,

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I understand that women should be free, but sometimes, when they leave so

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late I think good, but they
know that they are, that it is

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dangerous. Then we' re putting
those filters on, ourselves, us all

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as a society. Why, because
we grew up in this macho society is

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a structure that surpasses us as individuals. It' s not a thing that

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crosses us. And we have that
education both at home and at school and

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in the media, as I mean, we' re bombarded by this.

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Not then am I liberated and I
remove all these contents that I have received

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throughout my life. It' s
hard. You have to be thinking about

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this all the time and sometimes we
leave. But if we have this one,

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if we start to ask and reflect, I think we start to be

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able to make a change. Without
a doubt, how harmful or how it

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impacts not to pay attention to these
micro machismos that not by small ones,

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but by hard to notice by how
they are. Colabro, I love it.

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I loved your metaphor for microbes,
because yes, no doubt, this

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part of their invisibility. It makes
them grow, makes them reproduce constantly.

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We don' t think so,
but yes, I' m not a

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sexist, but at home you don' t give your daughter the same treatment

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as your son. She can'
t go out, she has to help

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herself in the house he can'
t, he can be quiet, but

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he' ll be asked to work
and to contribute financially first. In short,

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each person should not cry, be
strong, endure, not express his

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emotions and what happens if he expresses
anger and violence. That' s a

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good thing because he' s a
man and they' re not, because

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then it wouldn' t be the
feminine woman anymore. This is this floor

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where we' re growing up until
we think of some possible things for some

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and other impossible things that we'
re having in our mind and how,

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how, but why they became female
wrestlers, what happens to them. No,

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the beatings are not of women,
and that if a man exerts physical

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violence on another man or on a
woman, say that if they are angry

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they are, that is to say, that we understand that it seems understandable

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to us, then, because they
tell you it is not that there can

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also be women that violent, for
there can be anyone who rapes. It

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' s a human question, but
to whom we do accept that and to

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whom we don' t. So, those conditions of inequality that we have

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in our daily lives, with which
we res, that we relate, with

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our family, with our friends,
from the most intimate places reproduce in everything,

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in all our areas. And then
we think it' s very normal

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for men to hit each other in
a bar or, they do, they

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' re violent and we think it' s a very unpleasant thing and it

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' s out of place for some
women to do. Yeah, so that

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kind of thing is putting us in
there with questions as far as possible and

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on that floor, it' s
possible, yeah, it' s possible

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that women will be raped. Yes, we understand if we think it'

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s normal for a man to violence
a woman and get to the last violence.

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And although it is not acceptable to
us, we are setting standards,

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we are still seeing something happening,
something in which it is possible becomes so

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common that it convinces us exactly.
And then this, this, this removes

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and let' s say it puts
here the offense the Flaghad Network. Not

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that alert alert, because the moment
you' re treating each other differently,

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you' re giving them the chance
to be, to be violent, to

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have more things happen about one you' re thinking a person is weak and

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things might happen to him then better
be taken care of, because if it

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' s not his responsibility. No. Besides, this part of the guilt

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is very interesting. Now I say
there are many materials. You were just

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talking about how it could grow.
Let' s say this violence as it

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pleases and that it' s a
violence that starts that will surely be reviewed

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in a way or have already been
reviewed in your program in a more profound

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way, from the psychological, from
the neurological, from other possibilities, from

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other disciplines, say, but they
thought about things, very simple tools,

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like the violence meter. Not that
I' m now in one and working

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for an exhibition on violence against women
that we' re going to have at

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the Museum of Memory and Tolerance.
What a father this semester. Not all

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dates yet. But, well,
there' s more to it than there

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is, probably because it' s
going to be very interesting and we thought

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precisely how. We were wondering,
how to show that violent meter so they

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weren' t just. I mean, it' s very graphic. They

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' re not little colors, they' re little colors, and how those

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behaviors start. But sometimes we read
them and even if we are immersed in

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those situations, we do not identify
ourselves because we continue as in denial.

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So we figured out how to make
it more and more graphic, how to

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really put an example of situations where
you can make an echo where you look

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reflected by saying I' m trying
to give you everything and you violently violence

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me. And I more want to
give you everything, because I feel that

211
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it is my fault, that I
have to give more for you to treat

212
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.440
me better, when in reality,
the tendency is the opposite. It'

213
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s a bit. What we'
re trying to do with the book is

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actually to give examples, to make
those resonances. Why. Because, as

215
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you said, there are violences that
can be more evident. There is no

216
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.240
thing that this children' s do
not cry seems to us already as very

217
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obvious and as overcome, although it
is not overcome in any way. No,

218
00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:29.640
but sometimes it seems like something seems
obvious to us. That' s

219
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:36.880
right, ay Claudia to see in
the experience. I see this one like

220
00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:41.920
I told you. We commented on
this book many times in the bloated program

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with you and I looked at the
index and said wow. This one,

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this one, yeah? This one
is? This one? Yeah? I

223
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was clear about them. But all
of this I hadn' t even noticed.

224
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And I use them myself, I
fall into those approaches myself. You

225
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:06.599
don' t know what the book
was for me, how it went for

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you and some examples, because I' m sure many, many, many

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of those who are hearing us,
will be surprised. Yes, I also

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think that the same thing happened to
us in terms of the fact that even

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though we were studying these subjects,
it' s not the same thing.

230
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:29.200
When you suddenly open the radar and
it was from the conversations that we heard

231
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on public transport, at school,
where we could be seeing what the people

232
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in the back were saying in the
cafe and what comments they were making and

233
00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:45.039
he taking ideas and ideas was kind
of exhausting. But notice that in particular

234
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to me the ones that could me
many are those of the body, they

235
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.839
were the ones that crossed me the
most, because besides, also not only

236
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.839
do we apply them, not all
this form of how the body of women

237
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should be and how it should be
the body of men and s and how

238
00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:06.880
in women we not only have to
always be this aesthetic part, not that

239
00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:10.480
ornament beautiful women and how beauty is
this part, like that imposes us on

240
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.200
the image, always the image.
So how we apply it to ourselves and

241
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:19.519
we' re super tough on our
bodies, so we don' t get

242
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along. It' s always like
the slice. I got this, I

243
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got the other one, that if
I eyebrow it, that if everyone in

244
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their fashion, I don' t. But besides, it' s also

245
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:33.119
very interesting how that body that at
one point is this place, that it

246
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.440
has to be very beautiful and that
intimidates us, because it' s despite

247
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:44.079
us say the young girls, all
the time harassed in how suddenly it disappears

248
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.160
also with a certain age and that
body, then no longer, is no

249
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longer seen and you have to strive
for always being young so that it remains

250
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there having that transcendence, not so
that it continues to have an impact.

251
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.480
So it is very interesting just that, that seems to me a very strong

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00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:08.160
machismo, like this part of the
personal arrangement and of always being young and

253
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of him it is always having to
have this presence as beautiful. No.

254
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:22.359
And there are examples that were like
terrifying, because we looked even like this

255
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:27.279
in presentation, in labor requests.
No, and how they asked you to

256
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:33.160
be this beautiful bead. I don' t know what and already the experience

257
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.720
of Finding out was all the same. You' ll learn it, you

258
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:41.200
' ll learn it, although,
of course, for men it was never

259
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.119
a subject, not the aesthetic part. To me the body left me as

260
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so marked that we just look for
that when they tell us they are not

261
00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:55.720
going to be another book of they
are not micro because to list machismos and

262
00:21:55.839 --> 00:22:00.319
it is already clear the idea,
not like that the idea was that you

263
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.000
can add them that you live.
But there' s just this trend.

264
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:08.880
Not then do we decide to look
at the body as focus and think about

265
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how it has been seen from the
nose, for example, not that it

266
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is a part of the body that
is very important for our own safety.

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00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:23.599
Not always when you meet someone who
likes his nose, because he' s

268
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:29.240
totally sure of himself, not so
much for men as for women. It

269
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:33.839
' s one thing, but it' s so cross- class because apart,

270
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:40.119
there' s already a whole form
of operation, or the mestizo nose

271
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:45.039
that was acquired this eliminate in the
sixties, not that it' s going

272
00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:53.119
to start getting fashionable operations so that
you have some more features like this west,

273
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:57.839
these little noses and then it has
a part of racism also very strong,

274
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.559
no, and how we all have
to get into that. So I

275
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:08.319
think that book Right goes from head, skin hair, to very important concepts

276
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:14.200
as to how we understand our sexuality, to how we understand our health,

277
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:19.680
our disease, our skin color,
our weight. Not that it' s

278
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:25.640
a total issue now, too.
It is called body maps and of course

279
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:32.279
it speaks of gender, no,
and it speaks of machismo, but it

280
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:36.759
also speaks of ways in which that
machismo takes different forms, in different cultures,

281
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.440
in different epochs and in different contexts. And how we suddenly carry something

282
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.359
that no longer has anything to do
with ocimente and how we appropriate something that

283
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:52.799
hurts us we do it our own
and we start self- harming ourselves instead

284
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:57.119
of putting a stop to criticism that
comes from outside to pointing, that comes

285
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:03.279
from outside not the other way around. We took it and got out now,

286
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:08.400
we did date the enemy ex It' s not very complicated. You

287
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.279
were telling me everything that had to
do with the body. It was one

288
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:18.359
of the things that hit you the
most when you were with this not micromachism,

289
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:22.599
even if they were wearing the micro. It' s not because of

290
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:30.960
that, but because of how hard
it is to see what others touched you,

291
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:34.720
what others jumped you. Notice that
at that time both I and I

292
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:41.359
were having very difficult experiences in the
work that had much to do with this

293
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:48.319
infantilization of women, this condescension,
not with bosses who were not very aware

294
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.000
of their machismo. On the contrary, they thought that they were still,

295
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:59.599
that they were very open and progressive, but that they constantly put us,

296
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.799
they did not interrupt, they appropriated
our ideas. The typical Oian. Why

297
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:04.960
don' t we do, no, no, don' t wait,

298
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:07.680
why don' t we do this, what exactly you just said. No.

299
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.640
And then it was the idea of
that kind of thing constantly and this

300
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:18.079
infantilization of girls. I remember the
girls telling us. The girls and girls

301
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.319
are here, because I was thirty- nine years old and nothing or my

302
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.599
partner had a baby. Here are
stitches, I mean, the girls were

303
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.200
going. No. Anyway, that
kind of thing that all the time and

304
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:36.680
he' s condescending don' t
worry. No, since it was very

305
00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:42.599
complicated to really put forward ideas or
to change spaces and these machismos that can

306
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:48.759
happen seem, because something simple.
Not as good as it is, it

307
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:49.519
' s not that bad. No, they' re not raping you,

308
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:52.960
they' re not stalking you,
but they won' t let you up.

309
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:56.240
But they don' t allow you
to access a more responsible position.

310
00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.039
But it doesn' t allow you
because it was the girl, because you

311
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.599
can' t make decisions, because
you can' t then there are these

312
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:08.720
barriers. Not where the wage barriers
are. Today is a big problem.

313
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:15.880
I feel, it' s still
a big problem and in many areas it

314
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:18.359
' s not then sometimes we think. In the academic arena there are many

315
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.920
also very strong revelations in that we, who would say well, people are

316
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.880
more sensitized. It' s not
true. Spaces and jobs are always very

317
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.240
masculine and, although they are being
transformed, there are still deep inequalities,

318
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.279
not especially in terms of care,
in terms of who has spaces to care

319
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:44.279
for who doesn' t. In
the case of women, they must always

320
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:49.200
have access to or go to care. There' s not one of the

321
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:53.079
examples we gave was also the super
woman. Not this woman you have to

322
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:57.160
be. In addition to her,
we said that beautiful and beautiful and put

323
00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:03.119
in body, but also has to
be smart nice, Linda never gets angry.

324
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:07.359
This one also has to have eh
and take care of the children,

325
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.839
attend to everyone. What about that, that is, what viability exists in

326
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.079
that and in this model that has
actually become, a model in which we

327
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.359
all feel guilty. If we don' t do it this way, that

328
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:22.039
' s where it is, where
reality is. It' s just that

329
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:26.720
right now you' re making me
remember moments where suddenly, at work,

330
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:36.240
you have to tell the boss or
the partner doesn' t even have to

331
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:40.000
have different hierarchy something that you didn' t like or something that didn'

332
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:40.680
t seem to you, something that
bothered you, that bothered you. How

333
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:44.720
conflicting are women, yes, they
can' t stand anything at all.

334
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:52.720
There is no disqualification that comes from
how conflicting they are and then there is

335
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.279
no complaint that is evaluated for itself
to see if the complaint has exact validity.

336
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.839
You don' t listen, but
you stigmatize the person who is saying

337
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:06.480
it from the moment, and that
tone control. We also talked about it,

338
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.079
not like the moment you say no. But it just makes me uncomfortable

339
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:15.079
that it can be a joke or
it can be a much stronger attitude in

340
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:22.079
terms of the professional and you say
in here is that women are complaining about

341
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:30.039
everything. No matter what you said
or with valid arguments, not even in

342
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:34.640
the good sense, ever talking to
a friend that we were just dealing with

343
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:41.359
this one and suddenly I made comments
on a topic that was considered very masculine

344
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.880
and told me you' re going
to become my best friend and I said

345
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:51.720
no your best friend, as it' s not that you' re like

346
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:55.799
you' re my friend or it' s with you, you can talk

347
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.240
about this good is that where the
difference is, not in automatic. I

348
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:04.759
had to go into the cat in
the friend catalog, because you' re

349
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:11.799
not interested in subjects that are a
hundred less important insults than the female ones.

350
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:15.680
If it' s something that does
interest you, then next, it

351
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:21.480
' s like a man, it' s like another partner, and one

352
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.720
of when they were little in high
school said yes, I took more with

353
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.640
the boys and she was kind of
cute to you, because you said,

354
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.599
don' t box me in that
place of the delicate. And no doubt,

355
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.640
but then you think that if you
realize that you' re actually there,

356
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:40.319
uh, uh, also perpetuating that
machismo, because actually women can talk

357
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:45.799
about what we all want. So
much there is so strong any subject.

358
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:49.279
Yeah, no women' s issues. No doubt, Claudia, how they

359
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:52.680
get in touch with you. Oh, well, they can search me on

360
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:59.160
Facebook or Instagram. I am Claudia
de la Garza or Clouch Vela, and

361
00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:02.480
there we can eat, Sara,
there you can look for me and we

362
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:07.240
can follow the conversation, because that' s what this book is about,

363
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:11.519
this is about dialogue, thinking together
and talking about. That' s right,

364
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:18.839
how do we give him, how
do we give him, because I

365
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.400
want to say pause to this conversation. Don' t close, because it

366
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:27.079
works for a lot, but where, where and with what ideas you stayed

367
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:36.319
and who was Claudia that turned out
after finishing the book, because I think

368
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:41.039
the book changed me a lot.
Actually, you' re absolutely right.

369
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:48.480
It is a nice question, because
why this is to immerse ourselves and reflect

370
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:52.640
around our daily life. To me, something that interested me a lot from

371
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:56.319
the beginning is just to see how
these violences exercise us only one sense,

372
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.279
they are exercised from all senses and
we ourselves exercise them as well. There

373
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:06.079
are, that, we have to
see each other, we have to look

374
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:11.559
at each other, we have to
see that we are teaching and how we

375
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:14.880
can transform those teachings so that we
are looking for that world of greater equality.

376
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:19.720
No, and one thing that also
strikes me a lot is to listen,

377
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:26.200
listen, because thanks to this book
it was to put examples here,

378
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:34.559
but it has been to listen to
many people who have talked to us tremendous

379
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:41.039
machismos and situations of terrible violence in
institutional, of violence, that is,

380
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:47.119
not only of violence in family settings
and but of violence at other levels and

381
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:51.960
to me, that is why it
seems more and more important to go out

382
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:57.920
this 8th of March to put our
voices there because, because the institutions suddenly

383
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.279
there are some that you see begin
to seek to integrate and to listen a

384
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:05.839
little that is not left of others
and there are and there are others that

385
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:07.519
not that, on the contrary,
turn. They also close, close and

386
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:13.519
these radical reactions and seem very serious
to me. Someone was telling me that

387
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:17.960
I don' t like the radicals
of the marches and the women who suddenly

388
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:22.599
violate. And but what I'
m really worried about is radicality isn'

389
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:28.200
t a bunch of girls scratching a
monument for nothing. It seems to me

390
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.680
that the radicality with which the institutions
are closing down, that does scare me,

391
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:37.640
because they have the decisions. If
they allow violence to continue like that

392
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:43.799
then I think that that is something
that I think very important to say,

393
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:49.240
that it is very important that we
are talking about these issues, that these

394
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:53.519
situations of discomfort as you said where
they discard us, because also that to

395
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:58.519
say good, uh, I can
change things and not and it is not

396
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.519
a lot of times you don'
t do it that you are intentionally,

397
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:05.799
then being able to listen to those
who tell us. Hey, you keep

398
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.799
telling me this. No. No, no, no. I like to

399
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:13.720
be uncomfortable with what criticism my body
is, what criticism my way of speaking

400
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.440
is, or what in the end
of arrangement. And don' t you

401
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:20.680
hear, let me finish the idea. No, or you interrupting me not

402
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.400
to listen to me. I think
it' s fundamental, that is,

403
00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:30.000
it' s what happens every day
and if we transformed them, we'

404
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:35.160
d change our environment. No doubt
note that I am staying a little while

405
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:40.480
confirming something that I have said in
what it applies here and that I have

406
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.759
said here in the program many times
for many concepts and it is always I

407
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:52.920
have spoken here in the program and
I share it with you, that indiscipline

408
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.519
if not we manage to stop it
on time and that it is going up.

409
00:33:54.599 --> 00:34:00.440
So many years ago there was in
the newspaper stalls a propaganda that I

410
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:06.319
would have left forever there, because
it said in the newspaper stalls the top

411
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:13.639
said the things of magazines and others
said the crimes. They began with a

412
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:21.079
minor indiscipline. No and this is
why I always found this book so valuable

413
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:29.119
that they wrote, because this micromachism
ignored by the difficulty it has to be

414
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:34.079
seen, because it has permeated society
is the one that is growing little by

415
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little, little by little, and
then we have the beaten person or the

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dead person, the dead woman.
Not then something. We cannot fail to

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see that which is in the day
to day, because if we stopped it

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from there we would not get to
bigger words, we would get to those

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violences. So if we thought of
each person for their worth. And both

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men and women were worth the same
thing in this partnership and not just say

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men and women, but indigenous men
and women, and, that is,

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00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:08.559
it doesn' t matter their social
status, that is, if we really

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are worth the same thing. So
come in terms of how we look at

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each other would change completely. And
that' s what we have to start

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with, that is, we have
to look at ourselves at the center of

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our reflection. That' s right, Claudia, because I' m infinitely

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00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:30.039
grateful that you came on this day, that you dedicated us to this space.

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I already made the commitment to her. He' s going to come

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00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:38.599
back, because we have to talk
about his other book, some problem and,

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00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:43.320
well, about this topic that he
gives for a lot, not just

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on March 8 every day, but
today is the day that we all gather

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00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:52.239
together on what we' re going
to do the rest of the year.

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That' s why this space and
this function are given so much to the

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8th of March. Claudia, a
thousand thanks, a thousand thanks, a

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00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:02.760
thousand thanks to YOU to those who
really listened to us. Thank you very

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00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:08.599
much and well, I' m
chayo busetch until then. Audio Centre