What up, everybody? Welcome back to the dragon Ball Virgin podcast. You
got your hosts, Me goes in from Anime Uproar and Ray the anime Virgin,
turning the anime version as well as the Dragon Ball version, turning from
a virgin into a chat. As we now head towards the middle of Dragon
Ball Super Whatever, What up, guys? Nice to be here. And
then we got a special guest, Kid Kai. What up, kid Guy?
What's going on? Guys? So Kid Kai goes way back in anime
Uproar history. I've been at friends with him since I was four, and
he was also if you go to the earlier reviews on the Anime Outproar channel
from like over five years ago, we were actually reviewing episodes, me and
kid Kai, and we were reviewing episode It's in this arc. So it's
so cool five years later to be able to bring him back on in a
podcast this time and talk about kind of the same episodes and how our opinions
may have changed, and just yeah, I thought it would be a really
cool thing to do. So I'm really glad to have him back on.
He is not a virgin about dragon Ball by any means, and he knows.
You know, it's probably more than I do, because he's watched it
definitely more times than me. So very glad to have him on. Thank
you for having me. It's I'm glad to be back. It's been a
bit of a hiatus. But when you called me last week to come back,
I was definitely excited. Yeah, yeah, I definitely wanted to have
you on. And this was the perfect time because it marks like the over
five years since we were reviewing these episodes, and it can't believe it's been
that long. It doesn't feel like it. Yeah, when you said five
years, for some reason for me, it felt to only like maybe like
two or three years ago. But yeah, yeah, five years ago.
That's how old Dragon Ball Super is at this point, which is crazy to
think about. But let's get into the arc, the good stuff, some
initial thoughts, and then we'll get into the chronological order. Ray. Let's
start with you, all right, initial thoughts. It's cool that we got
another tournament. I love I love the tournaments going all the way back to
Dragon Ball. This one was, I mean, the last fight was,
I was, I think pretty cool. There were some kind of subpower fights
within the tournament, but you always get that, and then what happens at
the end I think was interesting because I feel like, I don't know if
you want to even call it filler, but the stuff in between kind of
the major events, you always think, how is it going to be interesting?
And I think the way that the writers framed it in that Goku at
first can't really use his powers to do anything, and then for you just
hours are sucked from him and he can't like he's helpless as well. I
think that's an interesting approach to setting up the obstacle that we faced at the
MS. So overall I thought it was a pretty cool arc and it was
also I thought really interesting how they just keep expanding the world in dragon Ball
from now we get other universes. Yeah, we keep getting like stronger and
stronger characters, Like you can't have Goku being stronger than Zeno, right,
So they kind of almost introduced a peak Gogu game in Reach. Yeah,
like characters and also the universe I think is really cool. Because a dragon
Ball everything took place on Earth dragon Ball Z we started getting into other planets.
Now we're getting into other universes, and I love that idea, Like
I'm not huge into science and astronomy, but one thing I am interested in
are like the multiverse theory, how there could be other universes out there that
are similar to ours and slay different ways. So we get that idea.
You are interested in that kind of stuff, So that's fascinating to me.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's what I thought was cool regarding the universe
as how you get this other universe that has slight like they have similarities with
Earth. They're just there's a slight difference to them, so not Earth,
I guess, but their particular universe because we learned that Earth is destroyed in
the sixty universe. So overall, I thought it was interesting, and I
like the way it's going where we're just the world. The world building has
gotten to be really interesting and we're exploring other universes. So overall, I
think it's a cool approach that super is going into. Yeah, and we
may maybe it's better to hold it till the end that we talk about it,
but I will want to know at some point where you rank this among
the first three arcs that we saw, so including the Beers arc, the
Free Golden Freezer arc, and then this arc. So you could think on
that. But kid Kai, I'd like to know your opinion right now,
which how do you place this with those first two? Um, this has
been my favorite so far. I gotta be honest with you nice And I
think partly part of that is because me and kid Kai both like Hit a
lot, so I think that Yeah, yeah, yeah, it hits an
amazing character. Yeah, when you get characters you like, it makes sense
that it's gonna be like one of your favorite arcs, right, because to
me Hit was amazing too. I will repeat this later, but two weeks
from now, guys, we will be covering the Future Trunks Saga forty seven
to seventy six. I did say Future Trunks this time because Ray, if
you watch to the end of where we're supposed to watch, should have already
been introduced again to Future Trunks, so we'll see. And I mentioned I
said it would be so cool if Future Trunks came back in some way.
Yeah, I know, it's like keep mentioning stuff. That's like perfect because
I remember when you were thinking of fusions and I was like, who would
you most like to see like fuse together, and you were you said Goku
and Vegeta and in my mind. I was like, dude, everyone like
is hyped by their transformation, but I couldn't tell you at the time.
So a lot of things you really want to see is what happens. So
it makes me think that Dragon Ball and Toriyama is good at giving the fans
what they want to see. Yeah, too bad. We probably won't get
Vegeto anytime soon. It seems like they're pretty content of staying apart. Yeah,
which is interesting because it brings back that martial arts aspect to it,
and Vegeto is especially op So it's interesting to see them just I want to
grow by my own power and not to rely on other people. I think
that's pretty cool as well. But we can now take it chronologically. So
the way we do this kid Kai is Ray pretty much takes us through,
giving his thoughts along the way, and then we can chime in whenever we
have something we want to say about that specific part. Yes, so the
first episode we get gokuvia Jeeta. They're starting off by training. This is
where we get Chompa arriving at the at the planet, giving them those eggs,
and then introducing the concept of getting it from the sixth Universe. Um,
we also, yeah, that's when they start talking about all the different
dimensions. How um, I forget how many specific universes or dimensions they mentioned.
Is it like twelve or something? Yes, yes, sounds right,
twelve yea, And then they all add up to thirteen, right, like
corresponding. Yeah yeah, yeah, so like universe one plus twelve is thirteen
two and eleven is thirteen and so on and so forth. Yeah, yeah,
perfect. So then yeah, we find out that the sixth and seventh
correspond together others, so they have those similarities and we see that throughout the
arc as well, how they are characters that look like each other. They
are sayings in the other universe, So we get introduced to that all in
the first episode. They also talk about the I think they call them the
wish orbs, which are basically super dragon balls. They're like dragon balls,
except they have more potential than That's so funny. It's like, no one's
gonna call them wish orbs, so they're like, yeah, in your world,
you might call them super dragon balls. Yeah, like, okay,
that makes more sense exactly. So yeah, we get introduced to that.
They start talking about creating a tournament again, coming up with rules for the
tournament, which I got pretty hyped when they started talking without the tournament because
I love tournaments. Yeah that's another thing I forgot to even consider. But
yeah, I mean I think a guy relates to that. I mean,
I think we all like tournament arcs, but yeah, Ray loves them,
so he was really excited to see this one as well. Yeah, I
actually think dragon Ball might be the father of the tournament like arcs, Like
they really popularize it, and then other innime later on, like Naruto or
YuYu Hawker Show started imitating and having their own tournament arcs. Yeah, so
definitely dragon Ball. And I told this to Ray too, like it's one
of the ones that started or at least popular a lot. Popularized so many
tropes that you'll find another anime, and like even the their aliens thing starts
popping up more than you'd expect in some popular shown But I won't mention which
right now. Yeah, though I do have to admit the original dragon Ball
tournaments, I find like, looking back on all the tournaments we've had,
they are the best in my opinion, because there's just more of a sense
of like reality there, and how with these particular tournaments who have people like
holding back from the beginning, Goku and Vegeta not turning super saying there there
was only a limit on this particular characters. So I did like the original
dragon Ball tournaments, and I like the whole field behind it, like the
crowd getting into it. These are obviously different kind of adaptations of the They're
sorry the original tournaments, but yeah, I mean I was super excited,
super excited the Super Tournament. We also get the whole concept of finding dragon
balls, even though it's not emphasized compared to you know, back in dragon
Ball, where Bullma creates the super dragon Ball radar Um to find that other
dragon ball. And we talked again for how useful she is in the story,
like, no matter how much time passes, they find a way for
her scientist nature to be useful. Absolutely, yeah, no, she is
his farm. She was really good in the previous two hours as well.
But yeah, we get that. We get information about the tournament itself,
how there needs to be five people in the tournament, and of course we
get we haven't even mentioned them yet. But the star if it is a
guy, I guess the star of the tournament manaka, it's a guy,
right, good guy. Well, his name means great nipples, so I
mean no, like his nipples are obvious, but I think they used he
and uh in the actual dub um. But yeah, I always thought about
him as a dude. Yea, such an awkward design, obviously on purpose,
but just like those protruding nipples, it's so funny how he's like such
an inside joke the whole time, dude, And obviously like Goku, you
know, it's easy to make fun of Google, but it's hilarious and it's
gag worthy, right Torialba likes his gag manga. And yeah, I actually
enjoyed having Goku would just constantly figure out a narrative in his head that justifies
Naka being the strongest despite all of these signs to the contrary. Yeah,
it kind of reminded me of her cool as well. Yeah, exactly,
this character gets away with He's somehow able to for the most part, slip
through the cracks and get people to believe him that we obviously, everyone finds
out later that the whole Manaka story was a sham except Goku. But I
just find it hilarious how he gets away with for most of the episodes here
everyone believing that he's super strong, and even Goku at the beginning, he's
like, oh man, this guy must be super strong. So he punches
him and he can't even dodge him, and he's crying and he's so confused.
He's like, how could this guy? Well, I don't think he
really thought that, but you know, as the audience were like, what
the hell? How did he not dodge that? But that's when obviously the
suspicion arises. But I didn't do it? Did you, like, I
want to know, as the Dragon Ball version, did you think when they
initially showed him, Okay, this makes sense or were you like, this
was weird. Design is not very cool. It doesn't shout power. Design
is not cool. But then again, we've come across different characters who have
a weird design and they're strong. So I'm I wasn't necessarily so you didn't
know it was a joke right away. Not right away, but as soon
as Goku ended up punching him and he couldn't dodge it, you're thinking,
all right, this is probably a joke. And then it made total sense
when he used him as this excuse for Goku to continue to get stronger,
So that made complete sense. But at first I thought, you know,
looks a little weird for to be the strongest person in the universe or strongest
creature in the universe. But you never know, I've seen some strange things,
like even deerst he you know, when we first was introduced to him,
I mean, he looks a lot more intimidating than Manaka, but I
didn't see the potential in him at first. Interesting, kid Kai, what
about you? Do you remember your reaction to Minaka and how did you realize
he was a joke character, right oa? Or did you think maybe,
well, well, yeah I was. I didn't. I didn't catch onto
it right away because, like as Ray was saying earlier, going even back
through your original Dragon Ball, you had like different kinds of characters, designs
and stuff like that and it and like so it kind of like threw me
off, if you know what I mean. Yeah, Like, I like
I didn't have that trope of like, oh, everybody that's strong is super
muscular as that portant and I mean will find as we keep going, when
Zeno was introduced that he's skinnier and smaller than Monaca. So you're right,
to have that thought that just because someone is not strong, if they're skinny,
they could still be super powerful. Yeah, and think back to Dragon
Ball Z, where there were so many moments, um, say, there
was like a dual villain. I'm thinking of Vegeta and Napa. It's always
the bigger one, that's the weaker one. And maybe it's just because I'm
not jacked. Maybe that's my excuse for being lazy, but I like when
the dinner guys are usually stronger, just reverses the conventions we're used to exactly.
So did we get to starting the tournament yet? Um? Yeah,
yeah, we could get to the tournament. So what was the first match?
Was it the Pooh Pooh Bear guy? Yeah? I guess that's the
best way to describe it. That's so buddy, I just thought of that
right now. I didn't even think about him as as winning the Pooh Bear,
but now all of a sudden, I'm like, yeah, that makes
sense. I think he's wearing red, he's yellow, he's a bear like
that had to be an inspiration Loki. Yeah, yeah, he was nuts.
Obviously, the tournaments they're not going to be like crazy fights every single
match, but this is kind of what I was talking about in terms of
some underwhelming fights like this one Goku versus the Pooh Bear, and it was
kind of interesting at first how he was able to absorb his blows and you're
thinking, okay, like what's Cocu gonna do? But I did appreciate the
strategy he used in terms of literally just haking him and throwing him out of
the ring. Yes, you didn't appreciate that. I did. Yeah,
because it's just something different, something different, and that's what I wanted to
say too. First of all, Hookie Wokie, thank you so much for
five hundred bits. He says. Universe seven is the dream team. Thank
you. M Yeah, Universe seven was great. Obviously, it wasn't as
dreamy as it could have been in one sense because they got Boo, who
was literally sleepy, So I guess that is dreamy. But then you also
didn't have Gohan. You didn't have people who we probably wanted to see.
But that's something else. Yeah, but oh, just Gohan. We talked
about, Remember how much like I don't want to say hype, but how
excited we were at the end of the last episode, thinking maybe this is
Gohan's gonna take a step now, he's gonna take things seriously. And then
when they say, okay, do you want to come to the tournament,
He's like, no, I have a conference to go to. I can't
fight. And you just thought, oh man, so much hype. But
it's interesting because he he kind of declined this, but at the same time,
and this is fast forwarding a bit, he declines a job because it
would mean less time with Pan, so as a result, he seems to
be drifting away a bit from the academic world. But we'll see what happens.
And he also I think he also turned it down because it was so
close, like he didn't he felt he didn't have enough time to fully train.
But yeah, whatever, Hopefully we see more of Gohan because he definitely
besides that moment, he takes a back seat. In this arc. We
don't see him at all. Oh yeah, And I think that's kind of
that's kind of been clear within the first two arcs too, Right, the
main dynamic right now is definitely Goku and Vegeta and the new villains popping up,
although we'll see who knows, who knows what might happen with Gohan as
we move forward. M I also wanted to say with the Winnie the Pooh
villain, Yeah, I thought that was interesting because it was kind of a
throwback to Dragon Ball, you know, and there was that slime creature and
the commandment had no effect. Yeah, so it was it was like a
throwback. And yeah, it makes sense, you know by the Buddi type
that he couldn't punch it, he couldn't come am, so you had to
straight up lift it and throw it out of the stadium. And I agree
with you. I think we should always have an epic classic fight, which
is just straight up dudes fighting in a cool manner, but to switch it
up to keep the other rounds interesting. It's nice to see those outside the
box strategic approaches to the battles. And we'll get that with quite a few
of these matches. Yeah, for sure. What did you think k kind
of the first fight? I thought it was kind of funny. But I
like that as a little bit of a warm up fight. Sometimes I don't
like when it starts off a little too intensely, if you know what I
mean. I like a little bit of suspense and build up and build up
and build up, And I mean, obviously would be bad if like this
was the best fight. He turned super Same Blue, and he turned Super
Saan Blue Kyo Ken during the fricking first battle of winning a pub. The
rest of the contestants just passed out after he does it. Yeah, thank
you, Master Leaven That Chad who says he hopes we're enjoying our dragon Ball
Super Journey and are you ray? I am. Like I said, it's
different from the Z from dragon Ball, but it's different in a unique way
in that it combines elements of Z elements with the original dragon Ball, and
I like that balance. It's striking right now. Yeah, I gotta admit
I'm finding myself Chuck Lang laughing while I'm watching the episodes. I'm enjoying it.
I'm enjoying the humorous aspects of it. It's not it's not like when
I was a kid, and I probably underappreciated those and I was more into
the battles. I'm still into the battles, but I can appreciate the humorous
moments, the comic relief, if you will. No, I'm glad it's
back. We also, I mean that's for me was always missing and dragon
Balls because like you guys said, Earlier dragon Ball had the humor, and
then when Z came around, the humor has sort of got toned down.
And then later, now that we're at Super, they're doing the humor again,
which I really really appreciate. Yeah, I was checking. Um,
So this dragon Ball Super has I'm not one hundred percent sure now, but
I think it has over one hundred episodes if I'm not wrong. I think
it's one thirty something. Let me see here, Yeah, one thirty one,
and so it's not that long, like, well, definitely, you
know, get through it sooner rather than later. And then I didn't know
this, but dragon Ball GT, which will hopefully get a chance to cover
down the line after we do a dragon Ball Super Monga as well, is
only sixty four episodes. I did not know that. I assume it would
be longer. So that's also gonna be we're gonna be able to cruise through
that and like a month or two, yeah, for sure. So yeah,
I'm excited for that, and I'm excited by this whole idea that we've
kind of created about making our way through dragon Ball to dragon Ball Z,
dragon Ball Super, and dragon Ball GD. Like we've fucking made it a
long way and where like the end of the thing, it's not like that
close, but it's in sight, so that's exciting. Um the what was
the other match? Was it right away? The I'm trying to think,
oh it was the Ghost Love the name too, Love that the fact that
the name is keeping up with that cooler Freeze. I like the theme King
Cold Frost that yeah. Yeah. So Frost as an opponent was interesting because
at first he appears like a fairly sweet guy. He goes up to Goku
and he's like, yeah, let the best person win and like, I
respect you as a fighter, and you're thinking, wow, this is totally
different from Freezer, and it just makes you question the different universes, like
in what ways are the US versus differences? Like it seems like there's a
central characteristic with each of the characters that make it different, makes it makes
it different, sorry, like the saying we find out has there's no such
thing as Super said had never heard of it, And obviously we learned later
Vegeta helps him reach that level, But at first it was weird to see
this Freeze a character act like a good person. We find out though he
has a dark side, but that fight at first was pretty weird with Goku.
How all of a sudden he get Goku. He's like dizzy and then
he just I'm trying to think if he gets knocked out or something he falls.
I think he does get knocked out when he's already like powerless. Yeah,
and Yo, Sam, thank you so much for five gifted subs.
You're a legend. And yeah. So he does get knocked out, but
he only goes super Saying, which I think we were all thinking, Yo,
this is horrible because because Goku was knocked out, he won't be able
to fight and he won't be able to go all out. So what were
you thinking during this ray? Because I know I was thinking, Yo,
I don't want Goku not to go all out. This seems cheap him to
lose at Super said alone. So when I saw him getting knocked out,
firstly, my first impression was maybe it's some sort of power that Frost has.
But because we've seen other people in the past, especially in Dragon Ball,
like being able to like freeze people or do other things to limit them,
so I thought it was some sort of spell he put Gokun when he
does fall. In a way, I had a bit of respect for the
Raiders, because I thought, you know what, in past tournaments, besides
that one near the end of Dragon Ball Z where it's not even finished in
the Boos saga, in past tournaments, it's always Goku going to the finals,
and you get that trope all the time, and after a while it
gets a little bit orring. So I thought, you know what, to
knock him out is actually a kind of a brave thing to do because someone
else will have to shine, Like maybe Vegeta will finally get his chance to
shine, because I don't think he ever has. And to be fair,
I'm always on the same page. I always want Vegita to shine as max
as possible, and sometimes I wanted to surpass Goqui, you know what I
mean, and then for Goku to catch up. But yeah, we get
to see that luckily, and I enjoyed that too, kid Kai, What
did you think of frost Um? It was interesting that um that he was
of course faking being a good guy. I kind of thought for me,
originally it was a little bit suspicious. I don't know why. Yeah,
we should get Ray's opinion about whether he suspected that as well. Um.
And then with this Goku fight. I was just like, like, when
he beat Goku, I was thinking to myself, I'm like, this is
a little bit BS like. But then then I was like, maybe it's
the Gida's time to finally shine and he's just gonna run through the rest of
the tournament. It is funny though, that he has Dragon Ball fans when
our main character loses or like it's bs rather than when our main character pulls
a win out of his ass, right, So that is a funny way
to express it. But yeah, I think we were all. I think
they did a good job of misleading us and playing with our expectations, right,
I did. Yeah, I did want to know did you know he
was going to be a villain? What did you what did you not know?
Because I thought, yeah, yeah, I thought, um, the
sayings were the same story, right, Yeah, My interpretation of the universes
were, you know, there are similarities, but there's like a crucial characteristic
that's different, fundamentally different. So we see that with the Sands, and
I thought, maybe the fundamental characteristic with Frost is that just his morality is
the complete opposite of Freezes. And so I thought, okay, this is
how I think this is kind of the approach they're going to take with him,
like the adaptation of Frost compared to Freezes, that he's like him in
every way with the transformations whatever, except he's morally good instead of morally bad.
So that did throw me for a loop there because we find out,
I mean, one thing is that he's breaking the tournament rules and that he's
using this weapon. And obviously what I think is cool about the weapon is
or funny about the whole thing is Vegita doesn't even care, like the more
illegal things the opponent does, the better for him, because it just it's
another way he could prove himself. And I actually I love that about Vegeta's
worldview and that, yeah, throw me another obstacle, it'll just prove that.
I'm like, yeah, the fire bro exactly. I like that too.
And you have a situation where people would even if things were fair or
just slightly unfair, they'll complain. I just remember this one time I was
at a tennis tournament and this guy I'm not gonna do a say his name
because I have no idea what his name was, but after the game,
enduring the game, he was like, oh man, my wrist hurts so
much, I can't play. And you know, it's like, even if
your wrist hurts, just you know, lose or win, like I'm in,
you know, accept whatever happens or take it as a challenge or whatever.
But yeah, I like that Vegeta. Instead of making excuses, he
just takes it as another challenge to show how great he is, another way
to step up. And I think I respect those kinds of characters. While
characters who are always complaining about things being unfair, you don't have that same
respect for them. They're not as spartan like and cool as Vegeta. And
again the saying spartan dynamic, I think that's such a reason that I love
saying because I also love spartans, and I like the whole idea of that
kind of manly culture. I guess you could say manly stoic culture. Yeah,
and yeah, when Vegina steps into the ring there, it doesn't take
long for him to be able to defeat Frost, so he definitely proves that
he is one of the greatest fighters out there. So um, yeah,
I just I like the type of character Vegeta's becoming, like he's more of
a family man, though he does it in his own unique way. He
doesn't that right like he does he keeps the edge edginess, but he also
has time for funny moments and for example, we'll get to it, but
the the pacifier moment, m you know, he didn't even know what it
was, right, He's like, he was just cool and he was sucking
all that pass. Well, what he finds out what it is, then
he's discussed exactly. So I like that they find a way to poke fun
and have fun with him. But you don't think of him as less of
a man. He's he's still a bro. He's still cool. No,
yeah, exactly. But you know that if he knew at the time what
the pacifier was for, he would have loved I mean he did say that,
right, Yeah for sure. Yeah. So that fight ended fairly quickly
with Frost when Vegeta steps in. But then after that we get that other
fight, which for me was actually unexpected with the robot because for the most
part, whenever we get robots, and especially Dragon Ball, we don't see
it as much. In Dragon Ball Z, the robots are not usually the
biggest threats. Yeah, it's hard to get excite. I mean you could
talk about androids right for sure, as being its own thing, and then
Seal is technically and android, even though he has that ability to improve and
stuff like that. But yeah, when it's a straight up robotic body,
it would kind of be stupid, you know, for that to be a
main villain, right because oh, they can't get better, to have a
limited level, and then Gould just breaks the robot so exactly, but he
did have an interesting edge that I'm sure you're going to talk about now.
Yeah, so we find out beforehand that they want to change up the rules
and put that ceiling on the ring, and if characters touch the ceiling,
I believe they get disqualified. So the point of that was to be able
to contain the heat that this particular robot is able to admit. Yeah,
so then Chopa was cheating, right like I guess, not technically, but
he was tricking beerists into being like, oh, yeah, this is safer,
blah blah blah blah. And yet it perfectly goes for that guy's strategy
exactly. He changed the rules so it's advantageous for his fighter because obviously when
the it breaks, when um Regina breaks, that the power isn't to quote
Pokemon. I guess super effective should ray quoting Pokemon. There you go,
I did not see it coming. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Um what did you think, gid guy chime in about the robot? Um?
Well, first, I want to give a shout out to my man
Piccolo. We kind of just jumped over that. Um. I forgot he
went right after Goku. Yeah, yeah, okay, and you know,
he was doing all right, and but like he got caught with the same
trick Goku did right in the end after he Like what I really love about
Pickles is he uses his brain when he fights. He uses his brain.
And he used which we didn't see really in drying ball z. He used
his Nomechian arms that can stretch right. Yeah, he used the gum gum
fruit. He's degree lufy exactly. So no, I'm glad you brought that
up. That totally slipped my mind. But yeah, that's that's another thing.
Although Piccolo is not a powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination at this
point, he still maintains that respect. Like I still he still gets my
respect, and that's based on the way he acts, based on his you
know, morals, principal character and the fact that he doesn't give up.
Obviously, he could have easily Goku lost. Who am I to challenge this
dude? And yet he did fight, and he fought a good match,
and it would have been a completely different story if he didn't get poisoned.
Yeah, because I actually thought he was stronger than Frost. I mean,
he did have the advantage there, for sure. Frost did fight a battle
already, so he was obviously tired as well. But Piccolo did have the
advantage before Frost cheated. Is it mirror? Did his special beam cannon seemed
to take longer than usual charge? I mean, Ray, what do you
think about this? Because you saw the special beam cannon? But I think
it makes sense because first of all, he was trying to power up as
much as possible, right because it wouldn't be strong enough otherwise. And second
of all, the other experience we had with the special beam cannon was way
back in the beginning of Dragon Ball Z, where it Goku straight up had
to hold rabbits while he powers it up. Yeah, I'm trying to think
when was the last time Piccolo actually used Yeah, I think he used it
sometimes fast, you know, But I don't think that's full power as much
as when he takes the time to really power it up and making a finishing
move for the enemy, because in my mind I do see him sometimes just
shooting it off quicker. But I think you could actually power up and create
an ultimate finishing move rather than just like a commandmea kind of thing dragon Ball
Virgin talking about shooting it off quicker. Yes, and I'm glad Ray always
picks up the inappropriate jokes. I'm just getting nothing is inappropriate for this podcast.
There you go. Yeah, totally forgot about Piccolo, and I did
like Piccolo was great in the Ark as well even later on. Yeah,
no, I love that too. I love that too. Um okay,
so back to the robot who wants to share their thoughts on that fight Vegeta
against the robot. I guess yeah, I mean, like I kind of
said, it was, um, kind of a unique battle in that the
disadvantage was with Vegeta because really anyone in that situation the heat would get to
them. So that was interesting. But yeah, we find out I think
it's I forget exactly how it breaks. Is it he deflects something and then
it breaks like he deflects like an energy or fire and then um, yeah,
keep trying. Remember I'm trying to remember because he is it his transformation
into super Sian blue. I'm also now not I think he the energy.
I don't think he goes blue in this fight because question now, I don't
remember exactly. He won because of mcgoda's weakness, because he's super sensitive to
insults. Okay, yeah, that's that's part of it. But how did
he actually was it a ringout? Yeah, it was a ringoutring Yeah,
it was a ring out. Yeah, so he only went super saying you're
saying he might have gone super Siant too, but he definitely didn't go blue.
Okay, yeah, no, that was another interesting fight. Obviously,
we didn't have our eyes glued to the screen as much as we did during
the hit fighter. Yeah, exactly. But at the same time, yeah,
it was another unique moment, and it showed Champa's character how he's willing
to cheat to get the job done. That was also funny. You always
associate this is another funny thing about Dragon Ball. You always associate robots with
having no feelings, and yet this robot species is so sensitive that you insulting
them completely throws them off, which is something you don't expect. So I
love how Dragon Balls is silly and plays with connection with conventions. Yeah,
no, it's and it's interesting too because this is obviously dragon Ball Super was
written way later than dragon Ball and for the most part in dragon Ball robots
except the android there, but he's more Frankenstein like than an actual takes on
that robot form. But now that we're in Super and like we're past twenty
ten and tech is so big right now, it just it complicates that relationship
with technology and humanity and what is human and what is not human because yeah,
this robot is crying at the end because of the insult anything man like
robots are just supposed to be emotionalist. There shouldn't be an issue. So
yeah, I mean technology is definitely a lot different now, Like we see
people with cell phones compared to the original dragon Ball and things have evolved a
lot more. Yeah, which is interesting because you know the dragon Ball z
ends after this is taken place, right, so at that point they probably
had less technology than we're going to see in dragon Ball Super because dragon Ball
Super is playing off our own time kind of thing. Even though dragon Ball
z finished much earlier, So yeah, it's gonna be an interesting thing to
look out as well. Yeah, but yeah, I'm moving on from unless
someone wanted to comment about that robot flight. But yeah, the next one
we get Vegeta versus the saying from the sixth Universe. Yeah, that was
an interesting idea too. He looks kind of weird to me. I don't
know why they did that, but I guess kind of to just single amount
and make it look different than the saying as we know. But yeah,
that dude is super skinny and like drawn in a different style and everything.
It's not just a different kind of saying. He just seems like he has
a different drawing style. Even compared to Trunks and Goten. He looks do
you know, Astro boy. Maybe it's a reference to that. He kind
of looks like him, like that simple style of animation, because his face
is so it's the design is so simple, right, compared to other sayings,
he actually looks like um Tarbal, which is Vegeta's brother. If you
guys, don't spoil anything, bro No, no, no, that that
those those way before super came out. Yeah, but that that isn't anything
We covered it was a special episode. I thought you guys would have gone
over it. I don't know, do you remember Ray coming across with you
as brother? Um, because we watched all the episode. I think you
might have loossed over. Maybe it was special. Yeah, yeah, so
don't uh, don't get too much into that stuff because we stopped around.
I think Broley Ray. Do you remember what movies? Yeah? I think
the Brole movie. So yeah, don't get too much into that because we
might go back and watch that's we saw all the specials though, thinking back
to it, like the Trunks one. Um, I thought we covered the
specials. Yeah, we did cover some specials, but clearly we didn't cover
this one. But anyways, Yeah, carrying on with with this dude who
apparently looks like would you I didn't even know this. I gotta admit,
no idea. Yeah, you can send me a link to that later,
good guy, I'll send you a photo right now. No, you don't
need to do it now, Like I said, send me a link to
the actual episode special, But onto this fight. Yeah, I do want
to say I'd like the vegeta dynamic with him because, as a saying,
he gets attached to him and he wants to take him under his wing,
and so we see that and how he treats him and how he acts merciless
to awaken his own super Saian Like, it's crazy to me to think,
and we'll see how much they develop now that they know there are more powers
and transformations. But it's crazy to think that this planet or this universe doesn't
even have Supersaians and we're already at Supersaian Wance or two. There's in threes
ors in God super Sian Blue, So it's crazy to think how behind they
are in terms of martial arts. And it's funny because Kabba actually made a
comment earlier where he thought maybe that they were the weaker ones after what happened
too. I think it was after Goku loss to Frost. He made a
bit of a comment where he stated, like, oh, maybe they're not
not as warriors like us or something. Yeah, bro, he was super
saying like not even mess up. But yeah, obviously he didn't know what
to expect since obviously it didn't look impressive what Frost did, no, of
course, Yeah, these sayings as well, they're very different from the saints
we're used to from Universe seven. I guess. So these ones are from
what I understand, it sounds like they keep the universe safe. They're like,
I don't know whether you want to say, like peacekeepers or like kind
of they patrol the universe and make sure that like people are following rules,
whereas the Saints were used to we're going around to different planets and taking them
all or killing people. So when it comes to just the perception of Sans,
they're very different than the two different universes. Yeah, and Kaba was
horrified by that other version of sayings that they do all those horrible things.
Yeah. They also don't have tales the universe six. Yes, and if
I remember correctly, they were on this planet pre a Geeta planet. Yeah,
that wasn't destroyed in their case. You know what's interesting as well,
speaking of the tales, the tales have not been a thing like with Goten
now pan have we haven't seen the tails anymore? No? No, and
that was phased out. That's I think just he decided not to draw tales
anywhere. I'm pretty sure that's how deep that goes. I don't know.
There might be a super in depth explanation somewhere online, but yeah, obviously
pan doesn't have one, right, never did, But I do want it
to point out again how I like to talk about the Spartan saying parallels.
Uh Kabba's uniform is even more in that style than the usual saying uniform.
Right, he has that old school classic clothing kind of thing. Yeah,
no, I agree. Yeah, But that fight was interesting because I mean,
right from the start, I thought it was no doubt Vegeta was gonna
win. But I just like how it was more of this psychological battle,
like he's trying to rev this guy up to be able to I don't even
know if it's you know, he wants a good fight out of him,
because I think Vegeta knows he wants him to be a man in this sense.
He wants that growth, showing the pride of being a saying. That's
probably the better way to say it. He wants to show that pride of
being a saying. And when he cowers or something, but Gina gets fissed
off because he's like, Yo, that's not a saying, bro. So
that's that's where he's coming from. And he says at one point he'll murder
um like his siblings and family or something, and I'm like, I thought
to myself in that moment, Man, this is what he says to this
guy to get him stronger and to get him motivated. Yeah, that's good.
It's like it's like Trunks, I will murder your mother and your grandparents
and everyone. You will never get a woman in your life. So that's
so that's so interesting that. Yeah, he does take all that different kind
of relationship with Cobba than he does with Trunks. Definitely. Yeah, but
it was cool to see him super saying. And again, remember way back
then in Dragon Ball Z when they said the super Siyan form is something we
don't see in what is it more than a thousand years or something, And
now it's all the time, And now people in other universes just by getting
angry can become a super sand Sands over there. So yeah, it's it's
almost if you're not a super Sian, you know it's possible. You get
a bunch of people doing it, right. So that's a general rule.
And as soon as Goko reaches a certain level, you know, Vegeta is
probably not far behind. I think even Vegeta in canon earlier made a comment
about now like how everybody's a Sand. I think he was like training with
Trunks and one of Boma's machines, the Gray Room. Yeah, and then
like he's like going hardcore, hardcore hardcore, and like Trunks is struggling,
and then he just goes like Super Sand out of nowhere. And then Vegeta
looks at him and he's like, when was the Super Sand reduced to a
mere child's like playthings or something along those lines. He said, yeah,
I remember that. Yeah, No, I mean there's definitely interesting interesting moments
there. Uh, what else do we have to cover? So we had,
we had the fight. Then when did Mageta lose? I'm trying to
remember, yeah, h h yeah, he gets hit. Which this guy,
when I first looked at him, he looked kind of like a spinoff
of UM. Remember the guy we saw in the Freezer arc within Dragon Ball
Super the new guy who took the place of um kind of gain you remember
again you ended up switching boys with him. He kind of gave me a
vibe of looking like that guy. So I thought he was gonna be like
a spinoff of that guy. That turns out this guy is in a completely
different category himself. I did not expect he'd be the most um like dangerous
head of all of those fighters. Yeah, he looked cool like he definitely
had that going and both I remember me and kid Guy loving his aesthetics.
But yeah, it's I think Kid Guy about us said this, but someone
mentioned that he pretty much had a power like Gouldough. Yeah, and then
and then you kind of have him just stepping it up. Yeah. No,
that's totally true because remember when that guy used the power and he thought,
if only he was an actual good fighter and in shape, he'd be
probably one of the most dangerous villains you've ever seen. If he could stop
time, no, exactly if he wasn't think just like, I'm pretty sure
he can stop it longer than Hit could jump forward. Yeah exactly. So
Hits just like has super speed and already right, but this guy was just
he could he could stop time for like even if he could, which I'm
not saying he could, but even if you could stop time for Yeah,
he could definitely because it was as long as he held his breath, right,
so that that's way more than parts of a second like Hit was doing.
So yeah, definitely he could. He could definitely do it more.
It's just the dudes running slower than Krillin and and Hits moving faster than Goku.
So yeah, you have that kind of stuff going on. Something I
did really like about Hit, and I'm trying to think if we've ever got
this with another villain except maybe Vegeta, but it's never a factor in his
fight with Goku. Is here's a guy who can get more powerful as he
fights, Like he's got that saying asque quality to him, where like he's
able to grow and get better as the fight. It was like a re
untapped potential. Yeah. Yeah, it was like Freeze a thing all over
again, right, Golden Freeze on stuff like that, because you have a
situation where we're so used to our guys doing that in a battle, and
now two arcs in a row, they're giving us bad ass bad guys who
are doing it better than our own guys. And Hit even more than Golden
Freezer, because Golden Freezer was, you know, he took four months to
attain that crazy form, but during the battle itself, he wasn't progressing that
much. But Hit during the battle itself those mere seconds minutes, he's rapidly
improving. Yeah, yeah, no, that was really cool. That was
very unique with him because in terms of what it's tough to say as a
fighter, like, say he didn't have that ability, would he have been
any sort of threat as a fighter, Like he improved in terms of being
able to well, I think we have to admit that he would lose as
a fighter without that ability, But I mean it's it's an ability that he's
learned to work with because since it was, Goku was doing very well even
when Hit was using the ability, just not as well as he later develops
it. So I think we can assume that he'd still be a great fighter,
but there's no way he'd be on Goku's level without that times capability.
Yeah, which which makes it interesting because you know, we have everybody using
their own specific talents. Obviously he can't go Super Sian, right, so
it makes sense that he'd have his own thing. And at the same time,
I like the fact that we got Actually I want to know what Ray
thought of the fact that ko Ken was brought back, Yeah, because I
think did we not talk about that? We must have talked about us.
We did, He definitely did, Like why does he use it with Super
s Yeah? Why doesn't he use it? Because that was the big thing.
Um, I'm trying to think back now that was in the Vegeta ARC
or the Freezer Arc. He used that the Vegeta ARC or Freezer ARC,
so he definitely used it. And yeah, he used it for Freeza too,
Yeah he did before the Super. Yeah, the first time he used
it with Vegeta. Yeah, I always thought why not the Kao Ken with
the Super Sian because we learned obviously before with the Kao Ken you can only
do it in small spurts, but he's able to move quicker and just overall.
Yeah, and this is what Kaden the chat said before and I still
remember it that she likes the fan service and Dragon Ball Super and how he
gives the fans what they've been dreaming about. And this is one of those
instances where everybody wanted to see obviously new forms, but also Kyle can get
brought back so you could like multiply these other forms. And I gotta admit
I was so hyped up back when I watched Out the first time, and
even this time with the music near the end of the episode, you guys
know which one I'm talking about, where the fight absolutely climax, where the
music was playing and every think was so exciting and they were fighting and the
animation was great. Oh man, that's that's why I love Dragon Ball Z
and Dragon Ball and like for moments like that, like when you just have
such hypeness, such an epic battle, like a new ability just unlocked.
And the interesting thing they did was they still gave Hit the win despite the
fact that Goku did maybe you don't want to call a new form, but
did something new form esque that he never did before, and yet it was
still not good enough to beat Hit. Yeah, because does Goku really care
about winning the tournament at this point. It's not like when he was younger,
Like he just wants a really good fight to be able to push himself.
And when he saw that the fight, like when he saw the two
win, right, he wants to win. He wants to be the best
wants I know it sounds kind of weird, but I think he cares about
being a stronger fighter. Yeah, But at the same time, he knew
he was beat, so what's he gonna do? And that's going to motivate
him to train more because he really wants to be the best. Do you
think it's because he knew he was beat Yeah, definitely, because wasn't it.
He was looking at the two of them fighting about like the rules and
everything, and he just thought, all right, like this is not the
best environment for a conducive fight. Wise, well, just there was some
philosophy moments. But why why I'm saying is he pretty much knew he was
gonna lose. Was as soon as you know he did that, like his
whole body started attacking him, right, You noticed those like muscle cracking noises
and stuff like that, Like he was pretty much But you're right, there
was a philosophical dimension where we're not their pawns, so let's not do this
anymore. But at the same time, it made pretty clear after he went
back to base form that he was in no shape to fight. Yeah,
even even after taking it after the battle, he was in no shape of
fight like way after and he had to recover by not doing anything. So
it wasn't just immediately after, It was the whole time. But you're right,
I did gloss over that important part where pretty much the God's destruction,
we're treating them as pawns, their playthings, and Goku is like, yo
hit, you know what, let's not play their game. We'll fight in
better circumstances with no rules. Yeah, for sure, I didn't respect Goku,
bro, do you remember? And obviously here is to your point that
he doesn't want to just win. He wants to win in the fairest way,
and so he pretty much had Hit being able to use all of his
deadly abilities even though he could risk his life, because he wanted him to
go all out and not for Goku to win in a cheap way. So
that's why you gotta love Goku over characters like Shampa who are like whatever it
takes. Oh yeah, yeah, And we get so many characters that have
that other philosophy of taking shortcuts and uh trying to like yeah, even Krellan
back in dragon Ball what you wrote the sign on the rocky remember and just
trying to take shortcuts? Was this what the training arc? Yeah? Yeah,
well back in dragon Ball, Yeah, when they were chasing Roshi's thing.
Yeah, and Hit is like Goku in the sense that when Shampa is
telling him you'll finish him off, this is your chance, he doesn't do
it. He actually respects Goku and he stands up to a god of destruction.
So it's cool to see characters willing to do that, right, Yeah,
they have their code, they live by it. You could destroy them,
you could kill them, but they're not gonna be your pawns. And
yeah, I think that it's always really inspiring to see characters like that.
Yeah. So, yeah, the tournament ends in a bit of anti climactic
way in the way that he walks out of the stadium. But I thought
overall it was definitely a really cool tournament. Probably, like kid Kay said,
your favorite arc within Dragon Ball Super, I'm trying to think back to
the tournaments from Z and it's probably it was probably my favorite UM tournament within
Z and Super. WHOA tying to think to Z that's crazy, there wasn't.
Well, I mean it depends what you count a tournament as well,
because there's so many tournament. Dragon Ball Z is best known in my mind
as the series with a bunch of tournaments that stop being tournaments. Yeah,
you had the cell stuff, which it's not really a tournament, it's just
sell fighting whoever wants to fight it CEA. Yeah, yeah, and then
you have the Boo Saga tournament where they just leave to fight Boo or to
stop Boo from being released, and so that tournament. Obviously, all I
remember specifically from that tournament is be Dell getting the ship beat out of here.
Yeah, so that's kind of because that was such a shocking moment,
right that it sticks with you. But there wasn't much else that happened in
that tournament before I was interrupted? Was there not another tournament before the cell
saga? Trying to think they don't recall because I feel like we went saying,
then we went Namic, then we went Androids, So yeah, you
were Namic skip Freezers. Yeah, Freeze is on Namic, right, Yeah,
after Freezing we had sell Yeah, like we then again, we don't
really get Yeah, like you said, any crazy tournaments in Z. So
maybe it's not a crazy hype statement. It's not like I said, this
is the greatest tournament at all of drag. Yeah yeah, but no,
I get what you mean. It's still hype to me because just saying anything
is better than dragon Ball Z is cool because you know, people would usually
put dragon Ball Z above dragon Ball Super. So for people like dragon Ball
Super, any anything that someone says maybe they did better is cool signed because
it's showing that dragon Ball is still going strong, even if it's not like
peak, but that's questionable because I think the high moments do go really well,
but then obviously there are moments that are less good, less intense,
but overall, definitely I'm enjoying it too. And you know, we wouldn't
have if you think without dragon Ball Super, we wouldn't have Hit. We
don't have Golden Freeze, that, we don't have Beers, we don't have
all these new transformations, you know, Like it's crazy to think of dragon
Ball universe without that now, So I think that dragon Ball Super is still
a staple and you can't just ignore it if you want to, if you're
a real dragon Ball fan. Yeah, I'm starting to get that five as
well. There's there's some great characters that have come out in just these first
number of episodes. I guess we're more than forty episodes in, but there
there's a unique universe building here, um that you can't just dismiss it.
I think there's some good stuff here. Yeah, um, we get that
as well. That Hercule moment kind of at the end, where up,
I'm glad that they not just Hercule yet because I actually prefer Monica because Hercule
is getting kind of old. And although I love Hercule and he could be
that on Earth. I don't want him to just sit and Monaca doesn't want
this to happen too. He's not It's not like Hercule. Well, he's
looking for the fame. He loves. People think he's the strongest. Like
Monaca just got thrown into this as a pat as this actor an Amazon deliver
person. Yeah, yeah, you just take them and you're like, all
right, death battle, let's go. You're going with me, just trying
to deliver some packages. Man, such a hilarious concept. Yeah, sorry,
kid, kyree gonna say something. No, no, no, no.
I was gonna be like, it's kind of funny because he was a
delivery guy, so I also got the Amazon vibes. Yeah, but I
like that Hit let him win. It was sort of like a he has
like a lot of honor and respect for Goku. Yeah, that was a
lot of honor, but at the same time it was also Hit was gonna
win, I feel like obviously. So it's interesting that even though I think
both of them could sense that Hit what have won? Hit still decided since
Goku threw himself out, he'll throw himself out too and tell they meet again.
I saw it also as a fuck you to Chompo, like, hey,
yeah, it was we're looking at me as a pawn. We guess
think about like, yo, fuck either got a destruction, like, holy
shit, that's why I hit such a badass. And we didn't even mention
it. But he just went to take care of Frost in a second right
in the middle of the tournament. That was so sick. He's like,
yeah, you step away from that because I'm gonna win that. So yeah,
I'm gonna take you out in a second. And I really like,
we didn't talk about it that much, but I really liked the animation and
the way they showed his powers where you just see those kind of spots of
light on the opponents suddenly, and then later we learned it's because like he
punched them that many times so quickly that when time resumes, it's just showing
all of that damage at once. I thought that the animation really shined when
it came to showing hit powers. Yeah. No, overall it was pretty
cool. The esthetics of a lot of the fights were cool. Seeing super
Same Blue was awesome to see. So yeah, I think I enjoyed the
tournament as a whole. You mentioned as well that Grand Zeno character making the
appearance. What did you think of Grand Zeno? What I thought was hilarious
about the whole thing because obviously there's this intimidation factor that Goku cannot see.
Like Goku throughout his whole life, he's never looked at like fame or prestige
or honor as anything except honor through maybe like fighting, as anything he needs
to respect. Like he could just look at you as like another you know,
living creature. So he just sticks out his arm and shakes his hand
and doesn't like the god of Destruction are like quaking in their boots, whereas
Goku just breaks all convention. He's like, yeah, like nice to meet
you, and you know, asks him about I forget exactly what he asked
him, but he just he breaks the conventions with him compared to the other
God's destruction. So I love that. The guy kind of reminded me of,
um, oh my goodness, who's uh the dude who is Ten's friend
child child Su? Yeah, like this little guy, Who're like how is
this person? And waste exactly? But I'm talking about wait, like when
we first met child Su and you're like, you know, who is this
guy's He's no one just buy what he looks like. That's why you mentioned
before. Can Manaka be a character who could be the strongest in the universe,
possibly because you see everyone's scared of brand Zeno and it looks like he
has greater potential compared to the Gods of destructions. So yeah, I mean,
I don't know what to think of, Like, he just showed up
then, and um, maybe he makes an appearance later on. But yeah,
it's very much. It's very much Toriam. I feel like to make
strong characters innocent and childlike. Yeah, or maybe not innocent is not the
right word, because obviously they can erase planets and stuff, but not mature.
Yeah Boo, Yeah exactly, kid Boo. The kid is obviously stronger
than fat Boo, but not stronger than super Gohan absorbed Boo. But yeah,
I mean gohan sure, Yeah, that's a better term for it.
No, it's interesting, and again I think the fact that it goes to
simplicity. He seems to be this very simple design for him, and you
might love it, you might hate it, but it's a very zend design.
It's like a minimalistic design, and it makes sense since he has so
much power that they'd go that direction. Obviously, you never know what direction
are gonna go, but you know Toriyama is not gonna make him like jacked
giants, because the more powerfully are sometimes the less obvious it is in your
appearance. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean that was interesting. I don't
know. I didn't want to say. I really like the way Goku interacted
what Zeno because you had Goku caring less with Beera's thought than Mageta. But
now even Beers is playing Vegeta's role old role, whereas like, Yo,
don't do that, They're out of destruction, and Beers is like, yoh,
they'll do that to zen Oh, you have no idea what you're doing.
Show some respect. And Goku was like, hey, buddy, let's
hand, let's shake hands, and he just lifts his whole body as they
shake hands, and everyone was like, holy shit, are we just all
gonna cease to exist right now? And then he's like, oh, you
go, you're funny. I like funny people. Yeah, no, he's
he's done that like before in terms of um again when he he just sees
the world in such a different way, like thinking back to when Hercule gave
him all that money, and he wasn't thinking of it as oh, yeah,
I'm rich, like I'm I'll be fine for the rest of my life.
He thought, oh, this will allow me to be able to train.
Like he just thinks things in a totally different way and doesn't understand conventions
or the way other people see the way society should be working, like,
particularly with these gods. So I do respect that out of him. I
respect it, and it makes him likable because he's not going to treat someone
different depending on their power their status, while you do have those characters who
if someone is a special status or super strong, they'll tipto around them.
So yeah, it's it's a thing that has nothing to do with strength physical
strength, but it has to do with strength of character. And so I
really appreciate that. Obviously he's also just naive, but it is likable.
Yeah, No, I mean I respect them. There's a lot of philosophies
out there, like I'm even thinking of like Christianity, where it's the idea
of like the more you see things as a child, not acting child light,
but the way you see through sea pass like ideology that's built into you
as you grow up, like, the more just you'll be, like,
the more of a virtuous person you'll be. So I do like how Goku
is able to see pass class, see pass you know, certain divisions titles,
and just like, hey, like just talk to you like you're a
person like anyone else, even though I guess this isn't really a person,
but for sure. And then we have also to cover this is filler mostly
the like the purple vegeta stuff. Yeah. Um, so it's not in
the Dragon Ball Super manga, is what I'm saying. So obviously it's in
the anime as we saw, but there's a Dragon Ball Super manga, which
is kind of weird because I should tell you this. It's not like the
other one, like with Dragon Ball Z, where the manga came way before
the anime. In this case, the manga Kid Gay you could vouch for
this too. It's it was behind at some point the anime as well.
Yeah, I actually think it started off a little bit ahead, but the
anime eventually just surpassed it. And like you said, this is like one
of the few cases where I know where the anime was like actually way ahead
of where the manga was. But then the Monga eventually caught up because the
anime hasn't been going on for so long now, which is crazy. But
we did have and I didn't actually watch the videos, but a bunch of
videos popped up in my feed saying that there will be another Dragon Ball Super
movie coming out. So that's super exciting. Can't wait to see that.
Kick guy, did you watch those videos? Do you know what's what's going
to be about? Or we don't know yet. I heard it's supposed to
be something regarding well, yeah, I don't want to spoil it is Ray
at that point. Have you guys saw the final movie? Yeah, I
guess. I guess we shouldn't, yeah, because it will probably No,
yeah, it'll probably ruin Ray, but we'll talk about it later off off
camera. All right, cool, So yeah, let's talk about that.
The babysitting thing is next, right, the babysitting. We also get how
Goku wants to spar with Manaka, and I love how at this stage of
the game, the God of Destruction Burris is catering to the humans like they're
like, you better dress up in that costume or you know, we know
that you know, the whole thing with Manaka is just this scam that you're
trying to get to Goku to get him to um, you know, challenge
himself more. And if you were to reveal to him that Manaka is actually
just this weakling, it may change the game for Goku. So now Beris
is actually followed the directions of the human, whereas just the beginning of this
series you had everyone just cowering to yeah, you have to follow, and
now he's just like the humans are dictating the god of destruction exactly. So
it's funny because it's the same idea as with Vegeta. Right, you still
respect Beers as the god of destruction, but you're starting to get more familiar
with him, and he's starting to do things that are peer pretty silly.
Right, even he says, I can't think of a single God destruction that
exposed himself to this kind of humiliated behavior, So it's funny, But he
still doesn't because he doesn't want, you know, to ruin Goku's motivation and
his own reputation. So it's it's hilarious to watch. I really enjoyed that
whole thing. I liked how the suit kept on getting destroyed and Goku just
did not notice anything. Finally, when everyone thought it was all over and
he saw the other Monaca, He's like, wow, you could even like
create a doppelganger kind of thing. You could even create Yeah, So it's
so funny. It's so funny how and I feel bad for your object due
just the fears and ruined something. But luckily Goku is too unnaive to know
what's going on, and Piccolo and Vegeta are trying to shield Burris when his
costume rips, so then Goku doesn't notice, like how oh god with the
whole act when Gino was like, oh no, he's taking over my body
exactly, Bro, I actually found that hilarious. It's because I love these
characters, so seeing them in these, even if they're not the most intense
situations, even if they're humorous situations, I really enjoyed. Because these these
characters are like friends. Now you've known them for so many years, you
love seeing them interact. It's just crazy to think, like Piccolo and Vegeta
literally killed tons of people and now they're to the stage where they're like in
this silly situation. It's funny how they've evolved over time exactly, and I
do want to say, I don't know exactly where it was placed, but
Ultimate Cell brings it up into chat, which we alluded to earlier, but
we didn't really focus on. So Goku appearing in Boma's bedroom when she's naked,
Yes, we might have talked about this before the podcast started, but
yeah, so you pretty much had Goku appear Boma in a towel. He
sees her sort of naked, and then Vegetas like, Yo, what the
fuck are you doing, Kacarat And he's like, don't worry, man,
like I don't want to see those saggy breasts that anyway, and then Magidas
like, how could you say that? So it's so funny how Goku is
here on the planet Earth so much longer than Vegeta, and yet Vegeta's already
picked up like all of the human stuff and has a better understanding of it
than even Goku has. Because Vegeta, I don't know if it's revealed yet,
so I won't say it, But Vegina does all these things that you
know you expect from humans, from for a man to do for his wife
or for them to do it together, while Goku is completely unaware of everything
except obviously sex, because that he does have kids. Yeah, and it's
just so it's another hit to Vegeta's ego, because another hit, another hit
there, because not only does he think Goku is stronger than him. I
mean, at this point he even says with the ko Ken, He's like,
oh, he's surpassed me again, but now he basically says, I
wouldn't even want to be with your woman or see your woman naked if I
had the chance. Like, that's just another hit to the Vegeta ego,
I know. And it's not like cheat, you would not be getting older
either, But is just so innocent that he's he's just stating the obvious.
He's like, why would I want to see your saggy breasts? I don't,
I don't care, Like, what are you talk about? That's so
funny. It's the second time they made fun of her breast. No,
yeah, I don't even think it's second. Man. Honestly, throughout Dragon
Ball Super, I feel like at least three or four times they've already talked
about her sagging breasts. Well, I mean for this part that we watched
what was it like twenty something episodes. First it was the big headed guy
that was floating when they were looking for the Dragon Ball super Balls, and
then he said something like her her breast used to be an eighty eight,
but now they're oh, yeah, she's which is normal for a Earth woman
to start sagging or something at that age or something like that. Yeah,
that was his name is Zuno? Right? Yeah? I think so?
Yeah, um no, that was hilarious. And what did I also want
to say? There was that moment guys if you remember that we've kind of
glossed over, skipped over where Goku is communicating with sort of the leader of
the entire or universe, and he grabs him by what he thinks is his
hand, but it's actually like suggest so that it's like his reproductive oregan or
something like that. Do you guys remember that, because it's not taking his
hand, he's like, bro, that's a very sensitive organ. That was
a dub the subgreen specific that's so funny, right yeah yeah, like the
green green dude with tentacles. But uh yeah, So back to obviously,
guys, chime in whenever if you if I skip over anything, But I
also wanted to just reiterate how much I enjoyed the pan stuff. There was
a comment in here. I'm sorry I don't remember who said it, but
I wanted to wait till we get to this moment, and it was that
Pickle is a better dad and grandpa than Goku. And in some ways,
yeah, he is, because he watches over a Pan so much he knows
everything about her. If he was in charge, he would have never let
her out of his sight to get lost like Gok when the rest of them
did, they just fell asleep. So yeah, what did you guys think
of that part? Obviously, I think Piccolo is probably the MVP of those
of those UM episodes. I thought it was yeah, pretty wholesome. I
think the only thing that ruined it was seeing my favorite character once again make
an appearance, Pelf. Yeah. So if you don't get the sarcasm,
kid guy, he doesn't like Pelf? Oh okay, I just he's such
an irrelevant character at this point. I didn't like him in Dragon Ball either.
Yeah, he's comedic relief. Yeah, he just keeps coming in and
I'm like, all right, just get rid of this guy already. Yeah.
I was actually also surprised when I saw it originally a few years ago,
when they brought him back. I'm like, I was like wondering how
they were going to make him relevant because he's so weak at this point,
but you know, I kind of warmed up to him, so it wasn't
too bad. Yeah, I guess, like you said, comedic relief,
So we've been getting a lot of comedic relief with her cuel, and I
guess they just wanted to take a break from just making her Cuele the brunt
of all the jokes now, so options, right, It gives them more
options, and these kind of storylines wouldn't make sense with her cuel, right,
with Pan going into their spaceship and then taking off, you know,
that wouldn't really make sense with certain characters, so they're a nice way for
them to throw in some unlikely occurrences. And I guess the takeaway I get
with that is she's able to fly, and they even say, oh,
maybe when she flies, and they're like, oh, that's not going to
be like for you any point soon. So it's interesting to see what her
potential is because I am I am interested in as well to see the potential
of Gotana and Trunks, because they obviously they've reached new levels that Goku and
vegeta. It took their adult life to get too, so I'm interested in
them, but also with her, like what's her potential? She could already
fly at this age, and obviously it seems like that's an earlier age than
Trunks and Go ten, So yeah, like it was already kind of suggested
that a half saying has more potential than a full saying, and we don't
really know how quarters saying works, but clearly pure potential from what we've seen
at her age, she's blowing everyone out of the water. So I have
no idea what's going to happen, but it might be like that kind of
thing that we've seen, with more initial potential but not the drive to take
her like Gohan to go Quinagia's level. Yeah, which seems to be like
the main thing, Like these half sayings and part sayings could have an insane
potential like go ten, trunks turning super saying super early, right, But
then at the same time you have all of these situations where they just lag
behind because maybe they find they go on dates with girls, or Gohan gets
married and it wants to be an academic and you have less of that focus
on training and more of folks on life where, which is kind of interesting
because it shows that hard work and sticking to something could actually lead to better
results than just being naturally talented at it. Quicker m m. Yeah,
so oh yeah, but I'm a sister to second second just mentioned that was
random as fuck kid? Kay, Like we never got introduced her sister before,
right, No, that was totally random, come out of the blue.
That was rather as fuck. Do you guys remember I wanted to ask,
um, it's slipping my mind at this moment, like, why is
the peel off getting like a bunch of kids? Yeahs look like that to
me. But you're right that the woman daughter. I don't know why she's
a kid, Like maybe the woman because you remember, you remember my ray
was was like an adult woman. Yeah, it was maybe that's her kid
or something. We're never really told. Does she even like what's her name?
Is her name? Ever mentioned this new kid? Yeah, it's it's
it's actually the same person. Oh okay, So apparently Zekin says it was
a wish on the Dragon Balls. It was revealed in a special manga chapter
that would explain it. I'm not sure why she would wish for that,
but that would explain it, yeah, because it was definitely not covered in
the anime. But UM, no, that's that's interesting, and so I'm
glad there is an explanation because as before, you know this, the chats
so good at like actually knowing everything that's going on. But before I saw
it in the chat, right now, yeah, I had no idea.
I just accepted it as truth. But that's a that's a good question,
obviously, Yeah, maybe we could, um. I mean, the last
part of this arc is that whole situation with UM the was a purple vegeta
blue vegeta. I forget what. I'm colorblind, so I forget man,
you and Briggs are both colorblind. I know that's interested. But yeah,
that whole situation is UM is interesting, UM because I don't know, it
changes things up. I think we get obviously, we we learned that what
happens is when they get to the other planet. Manaka is the delivery person
throughout the different planets, Trunks and um Goten accidentally get on his delivery ship
and they're released into the planets, and basically we find out that the there's
this water. I guess I forget exactly what they call it. But um,
it was basically meant to Yeah, it's like a boy it was originally
Yeah, biological warfare originally used as a way to defeat enemies from the planet.
They would take their strength and be able to defeat them. But then
it was caught in the wrong hands. And now it's been released now that
those bandits came and took out the special water. So that's interesting. But
I like the idea of how we get this Goku Vegeta fight in a way
though we don't see how it ends. Yeah, the dynamic tastes hilarious because
obviously, for filler episodes, you can't change much in the story, but
at the same time, you can build hype by having someone like Goku and
Vegeta fight because that's obviously what we want to see. And I think they
did a good job with the humor, like there was a pacifier. But
there's also just the fact that Vegeta was actually cheering on the purple dude,
yes, which is hilarious because he literally would die if the purple guy doesn't
lose, and yet his pride would prefer for him to be the better fighter.
And don't you find it weird that Vegeta is always talking about, oh
he could they just comparing himself himself to Goku and when they fight, you
know, he'll be strong or whatever. And they never actually fight like they're
not just like when they're turning on the plane, Hey you want to just
fight right now? They spar but they never full out fight, and I
feel like it's always this never ending thing where it's they're putting it off and
they compare themselves through their fights with other people. Yeah, exactly the way
that they do it, and that has to be done because it would be
boring if we just kept seeing them fight again and again. And this way
it builds up hype for when they eventually do square off. It's going to
be, you know, all the more satisfying because we've been waiting for it.
So little mini peaks, sneak peaks like this remind us that, yes,
we are looking forward to these two eventually going full out against each other.
Right now, they probably wouldn't wouldn't make sense because of the Kyo Ken.
Although in Goku's current position because he has to not fight Piccolo said like
they even said Piccolo can beat him, so obviously I'm guessing that's pre that's
during the baby setting too, when he was recovering. At that point,
they even said Piccolo could beat him because he was so beat up. Yeah,
for sure. Speaking of Piccolo, one thing we didn't get we've been
getting so much is him. I guess it's because Gohan didn't, you know,
make much of an appearance at all. We didn't get the Piccolo sacrifice
in these episodes, which was kind of disappointed. I'm so used to it
everyone twenty episodes. Ze could brought up a good point. This was this
arc right when Goku and Magia got full beards full beards. Yeah, they
were training in the Hyperball. They were like three years right, I think
that which I thought there was only two years. So I guess maybe they're
just stronger so the rules don't apply. I'm not sure what No, because
then they was rebuilding the Hyperbolicarian. I don't know if he built it with
different rules. Nice. Nice, So there is a see, guys,
there's always a reason to me it seems messed up, although we will get
to it because I don't know if it's spoiler or a kick guy. And
I don't know if you know or if the chat knows. But why is
Trunks's hair blue in the future? Ray might have not even noticed, because
but why is his hair as in the future blue now instead of purple like
it used to be? That has never been answered satisfyingly for me. So
because it was originally blue in the original manga when it was being colored in
the things, he was supposed to have the same color as almost hair.
But so that's it. So and then so what happened is what animal the
anime made. It made the mistake of making it purple. Yeah, but
then Kid Trunks is still purple, so it makes no sense. No,
but that was the reason that was given for it, okay, and the
anime just sort of just stuck with it if that was If that was the
reason, I guess Sam. Sam's like, damn goals and shitting on Ray's
vision. No, that's I'm not doing that. Guys. If you were
to tell me what color is Kid trunks is hair, if you purple or
a blue, I don't know. I wouldn't like I either way. I
wouldn't be able to tell. Yeah. See, that's so interesting to me.
Like, I'm definitely not shitting on Ray obviously, but that's so interesting
to me. That because I just can't relate, right, So it's like
viewing the world in a completely different way. Um. So yeah, that's
that's interesting. So some other interesting nugget that came up as well, just
speaking of little things like sprinkled throughout the episode which contribute to character development.
Learning that getting the confirmation, I mean you kind of inferred it by getting
the confirmation that saying men are drawn to strong women. And that's why if
you look at you know, Vegeta, you look at Goku, they always
go for the women who are continually you know, yelling at them, critiquing
them. They love that, and that's why they stayed. Yeah, they're
they're not around some missive women. Yeah. So that that's I think an
interesting like piece of knowledge that's told at some point because everyone's kind of taken
aback when they say that when Vegeta's like, yeah, I didn't know that.
Basically we're drawn to strong women. We won't go through we won't get
with like passive women. Yeah, which is interesting because I Goku wasn't even
aware. It's just like, well, I'm attracted to this without knowing why,
and Vegeta is like, of course, we like strong women. I
didn't if you think about it. V Dell was like that too, but
she's definitely changed a Dragon Ball Super, he's become way more conventionally motherly than
she wasn't Z where she was kind of had an attitude. Yeah, and
I wonder because he's a half saying if that changes things. But yeah,
a lot of things Goku doesn't know, like when Vega's like, don't you
know that sand men don't I don't know if it's saying managers in general,
but they don't age as quickly, and he's like, oh no, I
didn't even didn't even realize why, you know, it's taken everyone's growing older.
And I looked the exact same throughout all of Dragon Ball Z and Dragon
Ball Super. H Yeah, I think it's stated already that like sand Stand
or Prime told there like eighty or something like that, so that they can
fight for a longer period of time. Yeah. So since I did ask
and Ze can usually know this stuff, I will just say here, when
I asked the question about the Boma's hair or Trunks's hair, he says,
because in the original manga, Boma's hair was purple, but in the anime
they wrongfully made Boma's hair blue, so when Trunks appeared in Z they gave
him purple hair because that's what he had in the manga, but Boma's hair
was still blue. So in Super they decided that future Trunks and Boma need
to have the same color hair, so they change future Trunks is cannoned purple
hair to the wrong blue hair to mash Bomas. So yeah, I mean,
we don't even need to think too much into it, because again it's
like Toriama doesn't take this stuff too seriously. When you think about the tails,
just stop stop coming right because you didn't feel like drawing them anymore,
so or he just forgets about stuff like launch and stuff. Like the way
I look at it is with the tails. The main draw with the tails
was you turn into the same ape, and back then that was a real
kind of advantage you could have, you see with Vegeta. But now,
like who cares about turning into the snape At this point the Super sayan is
the hype thing. The same ape is just yeah, yeah, like what
are they gonna do, Like Pan's gonna turn into the eighth though, you
know, yeah again they turned Super same blue and cut off no Yeah,
they they've played up as that as much as they can write the azarro version,
because at this point it would just be kind of kind of repetitive if
they did that. Soul Slayer, thank you for the re sub Soul Slayer
has been subscribed for sixteen months. Awesome, appreciate it. Uh, yeah,
so we had that, we covered, We covered the purple stuff,
right, anything else you guys want to mention before we wrap up this episode.
I know, just one thing that at first, like a Dragon Ball
Z, seemed like it was gonna be big hype and now it's just getting
annoying for me, is the fusion into go tanks. Like at this stage,
every time they fused it gets them nowhere. Yeah, and remember this
is like more like filler stuff. So yeah, and their kids, I
understand that at the very least. Yeah, they've definitely taken a backseat big
time in Dragon Ball Super, even more than even more than Gohan arguably,
So yeah, what can you do. It's just it's weird. It's weird.
They seem like they got younger and less useful compared to Dragon Ball Z.
But that could just be my imagination or they're just staying in the same
place while everyone else is moving forward. Yeah, it's just interesting because dragon
Ball the focus is on you know, young Goku his potential. Dragon Ball
Z the focus is on young Gohan and his potential, Like they're not the
entire focus, but there is a focus there, And here the young characters
with trunks and Go tend they're not really relevant. And I think I'd prefer
that because you know, I obviously care at this point more about Goku than
are about Go Tanks or like Go ten. Yeah, so I wouldn't want
that to keep switching the focus. I think they tried a bit with Gohan,
so I wasn't like super effective, and then they brought it back the
mostly Goku and Magita, which not gonna lie I'm okay with Obviously, I
do always want to see Gohan do cool stuff. But yeah, I'm sor
right, it's all good. What else is there to say? I think
that pretty much wraps it up, right, Yeah, I think did you
want to just talk about where you would rank it? Yes, So I'd
also just put it first because it had more time to develop, right.
The other ones were movies, and then they kind of transferred it over into
the series and added some stuff in between the parts that weren't in the movie,
but here they actually got the planet out as an arc with time,
and so for that reason, I think it's the best paste one out of
them all. And I don't just mean fast based, I mean like taking
the time to actually build up everything. And the new villain was interesting,
right Hit. And I like the fact that him and Goku were better rivals
than him and Beers because Beers could just finish him off at any time,
right. And I love the fact that, you know, we got a
new transformation pretty much every single arc. Here, we got Super saying God's
Uper saying Blue, and then Super sayan Blue with Kayo Ken. So yeah,
it was just an epic. And the climax for me was Goku and
Hit, which I think most people would agree with that. What about you?
Yeah, me similar, So I think this is my favorite Dragon Ball
Super. I would say the next one is the probably the Freezer one,
and then lastly the Berrist and the Freezer one. I mean it's funny because
Dragon Ball Z my favorite one was Dynamic and Freezes Saga, so you'd think
Freezer would be ahead for me, but I don't know. I just I
felt like they put Freeze in there as a way just to be like,
oh the fans love Freeze and Z, we'll just throw them in here.
I didn't find it was that original. So even though it's a new transformation
with Golden Freezer, so that's why it's not my number one, but I
would say this is definitely the number one for those reasons that you stated.
Just the transformations the tournament, Yeah, I thought it and it had room
to breathe, right, it had room to breathe, develope. It wasn't
like stuck, but any everything had its it's parts that I liked so far,
right, I think it's been getting better, but I think berus was
interesting with like the God Destruction stuff. I did love Golden Freezer as like
a better opponent to Goku and now this. Yeah, so I can't wait
to see what happens next, specifically raise reaction, because I did watch it
all. And I also want to see kind of how they keep things interesting,
because so Barny've been doing a great job. They they introduced a God
of Destruction, they introduced Golden Freezer, they introduced this tournament with all these
different universes. It's been implied that Zeno wants like all of the universes to
participate, So if that happens, we'd be getting all of these different new
badass characters that can participate. Then you also have now Future Trunks saga.
So we're getting back to Future Trunks. And I know how much Ray like
Future Trunks and like who didn't like He's just great. He's just a great
character, and I love the time travel. So you know, we might
see a new villain up here in the Future Trunks saga. I'm trying to
think in the future he ended up going back. He went back to the
future and he destroyed Yeah, so they're like he's running around at the end
there and wherever he is, it seems like the town is completely destroyed again.
So it wouldn't be because of the Androids. It would be because of
something else. I wonder if they do a similar thing there where. Yeah,
any ants, any pure guesses for what what may be happening. I
don't know pure guesses. I just hope it's not a similar thing where it's
a new Android or something. I hope for me the Android thing is done,
Like I'm not interested in anymore, So I hope it's not Oh,
they found out there's this new Android and it's you know, I just I
wouldn't be into that. But for me, I hope it's just a completely
new person. Yeah, the perfect Android was very created. That was Android
eighteen. So yeah, we can move on. That's what is he I'm
trying to think Mary, whether he thank you so much for rating us much
appreciated. Did he that being future trunks know of the like transformation that eighteen
Like I'm talking inner transformation that eighteen had before he left. Was he aware
of it? Because if not, he's going to be freaked out when he
sees krillin in eighteen together. Um or just like weird. I don't remember
now, but yeah, I mean we we've had that moment repeated plenty of
times, right, Um, but yeah, I might be repeated again because
we've had Goku react like that. Yeah, I'm Tory react like that because
they didn't know Andrew At could be trusted. But here's the person who killed
off for his entire family. Yeah, I mean he'll have the worst reaction,
Yeah, for sure. So that's something to look forward to. Um.
Yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff to look forward to. I
look forward to seeing how the villains, you know, the designs, what
happens with them? Can't wait again. Thanks kid Kai for coming on as
a guest. It was cool to do this talk about these same episodes again
after five years. Thank you for having me. It was fun time and
maybe we can do it again sometimes. Yep. And guys, let me
just wrap up by finding you what episodes we're covering for the next Dragonball version,
which I will remind you would be in two weeks. So we have
the future Trunk Saga episodes forty seven to seventy six. If you guys are
listening to their podcast and wondering when I mentioned chat who I'm talking about,
We're doing this live on Twitch and so you guys could actually watch live and
participate through the chat. So that will be on the Rant Cafe Twitch every
Wednesday, not every Wednesday anymore, every other Wednesday at four pm Eastern time.
So if you want to catch a live show a bunch of you have
done that, that's the way to do it. Rant Cafe Twitch. Also,
if you enjoy the podcast, drop a five star review on Apple Podcasts.
It helps out And until next time, see us Space Cowboys Bay