WEBVTT 1 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:30.960 Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two of our series about the 2 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:34.920 murders of Jill and Julie Hanson. Robin, do you want to catch everyone 3 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.560 up on what we talked about in our previous episode. The crime took place 4 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:42.320 in Willow Creek, California, in nineteen eighty six, and the two victims 5 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:46.359 were a pair of twin sisters sixteen years old, Jill and Julie Hanson, 6 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:51.200 who were living with their parents, Hans and Betty Hanson, and also their 7 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.960 a half brother, Donnie, who was conceived in a previous marriage Betty's previous 8 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.799 relationship before she got married to Hans. He happened to be staying over that 9 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:04.040 at their mobile home. But then there was a major fire and the family 10 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:07.439 tried to do everything to put it out, and they called the fire department, 11 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:12.760 and then they would discover got a double check which one it was that 12 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:19.439 died first. I always forget Julie. She was discovered in a field across 13 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:23.680 the street, and it turned out she had a gunshot wound to the stomach, 14 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:29.159 and it became obvious that this was a deliberately planned crime with arson and 15 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:34.599 murder, and they would find Jill's body in the wreckage shortly thereafter, and 16 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.359 she also had a gunshot wound to her stomach. And even though Julie was 17 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:42.879 still survived and was taken to the hospital and held on for a few weeks, 18 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:47.560 she wound up passing away too when an air bubble accidentally entered her vane. 19 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:52.879 And suspicions started turning towards Donnie because it turned out that the he tried 20 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:57.120 to go back into the crime scene to retrieve the shotgun, and it turned 21 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.079 out that he had borrowed it from a friend, and that bunch of gasoline 22 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:05.439 that was used to start the fire have been charged to his credit card only 23 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.479 a few days before the crime took place. There seemed to be overwhelming evidence 24 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:14.639 against him, and when Donnie went on trial, his defense attorney tried to 25 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:17.879 paint a scenario that two other intruders broke into the house and happened to kill 26 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:23.280 the two girls before setting it on fire, and reasonable that was created because 27 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:29.400 there were other neighbors who claimed to see two unidentify men outside the trailer while 28 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:31.960 it was on fire, and of course the defense tried to say that they 29 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:37.439 were the real killers and that Donnie was completely innocent, and the jury seemed 30 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.000 to buy it. They didn't necessarily believe Donnie was innocent, but they still 31 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:45.159 thought there was reasonable doubt, so they wound up finding him not guilty. 32 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:49.759 During the trial, Hans and Betty were very supportive of Donnie, but as 33 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.639 time went on they came to believe that he was responsible for what happened, 34 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.719 so they wound up disowning him, and he moved away to a new state 35 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:01.319 and changed his name. But though Donnie was acquitted, he cannot be charged 36 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:05.759 with the crime again. There has always been suspicion that he did not do 37 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:08.199 this alone, and that at the very least he would have had some other 38 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:14.800 accomplices. So there's still a lot of unanswered questions about this case. Well, 39 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.840 no matter which way you look at it, even if Donnie Hanson is 40 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:23.000 guilty, this is still a pretty bizarre crime and there are a number of 41 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:28.680 unanswered questions. There weren't many people featured on Unsolved Mysteries whom you'll feel more 42 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:32.560 sympathy for than Hans and Betty Hanson, who moved to Oregon in the years 43 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:38.159 following the crime. In order to start over. The couple had to experience 44 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:43.240 an unimaginable tragedy, as they not only lost two daughters, but had to 45 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:46.199 come to terms with the fact that their own son was likely involved in the 46 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:53.240 crime. Even though Hans was technically Donnie's stepfather, he had raised him since 47 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:57.800 he was around two years old, and shared this heartbreaking line during his Unsolved 48 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:01.800 Mysteries interview. Quote, this has been a real tragedy for us because we've 49 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:05.960 lost three of our four children out of this. Two of them are dead, 50 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:11.000 and Donnie's dead to me because I do feel like he was one hundred 51 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:15.120 percent responsible for this, whether he pulled it off one hundred percent himself or 52 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:19.480 not. End quote. I would be interested to know when the Hansons ultimately 53 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:25.519 came to this realization, because Betty did say that she was initially happy when 54 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:30.279 Donnie was acquitted. We've seen a number of cases in which a murderer's family 55 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:34.600 sticks by them and refuses to believe that they're guilty in spite of overwhelming evidence. 56 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:39.839 But it seems like Hans and Betty reached the point where they realized that 57 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:44.360 there was no way Donnie could have been innocent in all this. Since Donnie 58 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:47.319 could not be charged with this crime again because of double jeopardy. I can 59 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:53.240 understand why his refusal to come clean would lead to estrangement from his family. 60 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:58.800 If he did have accomplices and someone else pulled the trigger, they could technically 61 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:02.279 still face justice for what they did, but Donnie refuses to name them or 62 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:09.480 acknowledge any involvement. Jules, you nailed it when you said, regardless of 63 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:14.759 what Donnie did or didn't do, your heart breaks for these parents who, 64 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:18.759 at the end of the day, they lost two children to murder as the 65 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:25.439 victims, but then come to this realization that they're, in the stepfather's eyes, 66 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:29.920 one hundred percent sure that Donnie's responsible, and so they technically lose this 67 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:34.079 third child and they're left picking up the pieces of saying how do you reconstruct 68 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:39.040 a family when so you know, half of us are missing. And what's 69 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:44.399 really difficult in these cases is oftentimes law enforcement can't share all the details with 70 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.759 the family as they're going through a trial. But when a trial ends and 71 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.680 a verdict's been rendered, there are detectives who sit down with families and are 72 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:56.360 able to be much more frank and open because they love and care about these 73 00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:00.839 people they're working with. You really do take on a liking to in a 74 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:04.000 friendship to families like this that are just grieving and hurting and asking for help. 75 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:10.959 And so it's possible that when the trial ended that either the prosecutors or 76 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:15.560 the police were able to reveal more information or be more transparent and blunt with 77 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:18.680 the family than they were prior to. So when he was acquitted, Mom 78 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:23.800 was thinking, this is wonderful, right, he's we're safe and this is 79 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.000 not our son's fault, and so we can kind of heal our family having 80 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.959 two of our children. And then possibly as they learn more information from the 81 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.800 prosecutor and the police, that's when they come to the realization that, wow, 82 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:40.040 I didn't even the trial didn't say it that bluntly to me. Point 83 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.879 I never thought of that that maybe the Hansons just did not have all the 84 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.519 information before they went to trial. There could have been some details that were 85 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:50.120 withheld from them, and it was only afterwards, after Donnie was acquitted, 86 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:54.279 that they were able to sit down and explain the full story, all the 87 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:58.360 evidence of the details, and that's what caused hans and Betty to change their 88 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.519 mind. But who knows, it could have been Donnie himself who changed their 89 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:04.839 minds because maybe he just did not show any grief towards his sister or something, 90 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:09.480 or maybe he did something suspicious and that the more they thought about it, 91 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.439 the more they realized. Yeah, even though he was found not guilty, 92 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.160 he had to have been involved in this. By the time Donnie appeared 93 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:19.439 on Unsolved Mysteries, he had moved out of the area and changed his name, 94 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:24.560 so during his interview his face was shown in silhouette and his voice was 95 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:29.959 digitized. He also really seemed to like using the word ludacrous by saying things 96 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.040 like quote, the accusations that I know what went on that night are absolutely 97 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:38.680 ludicrous. Of course, when asked to account for the many discrepancies in his 98 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:43.120 original story, Donnie really didn't do a very good job explaining them and made 99 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.279 himself look even worse. I think if you were to take a poll among 100 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:51.240 Unsolved Mysteries fans about Donnie's guilt or innocence, virtually none of them would vote 101 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:55.720 that he's innocent. But the full extent of his involvement in this crime is 102 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:59.680 not so clear cut. As far as the rest of the Hanson family, 103 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:03.600 it sounds like Hans, Betty, Jill, and Julie were all considered to 104 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:07.879 be genuinely nice people within the community. During his Unsolved Mysteries interview, hans 105 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:11.680 said that even though the twins were popular in school, they also acted very 106 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:18.920 friendly and sympathetic towards underdogs and would befriend anyone. There's virtually no information out 107 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:22.000 there about the surviving Hanson daughter, Becky, but I would be really curious 108 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:26.879 to know about what the family dynamic was like with Donnie. If you look 109 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.000 up any online discussions about this case, you'll find comments from a few people 110 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.679 who claim to have known the Hansons personally and say nothing but nice things about 111 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.320 most of the family. But they don't speak all that glowingly about Donnie, 112 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:43.399 and you get the impression that he was pretty much the black sheep. I 113 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.600 don't know if he had a history of trouble before this crime took place, 114 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.440 but I'd love to know if there were any warning signs to suggest he was 115 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.559 the type of person who was capable of murdering his own family. Can you 116 00:08:54.600 --> 00:09:01.919 all refresh me? Donnie's story did change while he was interviewed by police and 117 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.639 then interrogated by police. Originally, I recall him saying something that said that 118 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:09.519 he actually carried one of the girls to safety, and then it turns out 119 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.519 he definitely did not like he was playing both sides, saying, you know, 120 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.759 thinking maybe one of the scissors was going to survive and could tell on 121 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:20.600 him. Remind me what happened there. Well, that happened originally because when 122 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:26.639 the fire was going on and Hans was asking have you seen Julie and Donnie 123 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:30.639 said no, And it was only after they discovered Julie's body in the lot 124 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:33.320 across the street that he said, oh, yeah, I carried her out. 125 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:35.720 It's my I was the one who got her out of there. But 126 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:41.679 Unsaw Mysteries interview is when he changed the story about the shotgun because he originally, 127 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:45.519 as you recall, the police caught him trying to break into the family's 128 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.080 warehouse because he had stashed the gun there and thought he could go in to 129 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:52.600 get rid of it. And he originally said that he hid the shotgun because 130 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:54.919 he was worried that he would get blamed for the crime. But then he's 131 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.519 interviewed years later on Unsolved Mysteries and said, oh, actually I decided to 132 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:01.919 hide the gun because I was worried it'd get stolen, as if someone who's 133 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:05.559 in the middle of a house fire losing your family is going to care about 134 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:09.440 their precious shotgun being stolen, or that you'd care if you were going to 135 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.360 be blamed. I mean, the reality is is my priority is my family 136 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.559 in that moment, and that wouldn't be where my brain was at that time. 137 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:18.960 I mean, that might be while I'm sitting in an interrogation room, 138 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:20.960 I might go, oh, Lord of mercy, this is going to look 139 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.039 real bad on me. But in the moment, and like you said, 140 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.879 while his father screaming, where's you know? Have you seen her? Have 141 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.320 you seen her? And he's saying no, and then makes up this elaborate 142 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.440 hero story. It's wild to think that someone in the midst of this trauma 143 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.639 of watching the physical fire and the physical possessions burn, and then knowing your 144 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:45.080 sisters are harmed in this fire, right everyone thought it was just the fire, 145 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:50.039 to be thinking about any of those extra details makes zero sense. One 146 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:58.759 might even say it's ludicrous. Quite The most prominent theory about a potential motive 147 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:03.120 for is that he wanted to collect on a life insurance policy that his stepfather 148 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:07.480 had. But even if he had managed to kill everyone in the trailer that 149 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.559 night, he still would have had to split the insurance money with his surviving 150 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:16.919 sister, Becky, and if Donnie had accomplices, they presumably would have demanded 151 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.720 a cut of the money as well. We know that Jill and Julie were 152 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:26.679 shot, whereas Hans and Betty were not. But was this an intentional choice 153 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:31.320 or did Donnie just not get the opportunity to kill his mother and stepfather as 154 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.159 well. The fact of the matter is that Donnie lived in an entirely different 155 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:39.440 town and had stopped by to visit his family, So if he was a 156 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:45.759 completely innocent victim, it's quite a coincidence that they would happen to be attacked 157 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.679 on the one night when Donnie was staying there. Now, in a moment, 158 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.720 Robin is going to go over the scenario presented by Donnie's defense team at 159 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:58.759 his trial, which involved two random intruders breaking into the trailer and committing the 160 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:03.799 crime. I'm glad that Unsolved Mysteries presented a reenactment of this scenario because when 161 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.720 you watch it unfold on screen, it gives you a pretty good idea of 162 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:13.440 how absurd the whole thing really is, and Remember, it doesn't sound like 163 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:18.639 the defense ever presented a potential motive for why these two intruders would decide to 164 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:22.919 perform a home invasion on the Hansens, a well liked family who did not 165 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:28.879 seem to have any known enemies. I'm excited to hear these theories. Also, 166 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.559 remember if this was someone who wasn't random. I know we're about to 167 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.279 talk about a random intruder, but if this was someone plotting to kill the 168 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.639 girls or kill the family, when they would see that there's an extra vehicle 169 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:46.519 there, wouldn't that also deter them from being at the scene because you already 170 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:48.120 know that there's a mom, dad, and these two girls. If you're 171 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.399 planning this, and then you drive up and you see an extra car, 172 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.240 that could mean an extra adult, an extra male, someone that's going to 173 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.200 confront you. I feel like if it was a planned attack, Donnie's presence 174 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:05.000 would have actually deterred people from being there because they would have been familiar with 175 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:07.799 whose cars would be in the driveway and what activity would be going on at 176 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.600 the house. And then here's Donnie arriving. Now there's gonna be a theory 177 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:16.120 thrown out by the defense that says These are random perpetrators that just so happened 178 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.440 to have this plan that kills the girls. I'm ready to hear it, 179 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.399 and I think it too will be quite ludicrous. Yeah, there's gonna be 180 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:30.240 a lot of sarcasm when we describe these scenarios. So the story goes that 181 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.519 the perpetrators showed up at the hands and trailer at three am without bringing any 182 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.519 weapons of their own, but by pure luck, Donnie just happened to have 183 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:43.080 a shotgun, some shells, and two full cans of gasoline inside his car, 184 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.480 which he had borrowed or purchased during the preceding days. Man, don't 185 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:50.840 you just love it when you plan a home invasion and the victims are courteous 186 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.799 enough to leave the items to use outside their residence. These men then break 187 00:13:54.840 --> 00:14:00.720 inside and start pouring gasoline all over the trailer while Donnie is sleeping right there 188 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:05.559 on the couch and somehow manage not to wake him up. When Julie suddenly 189 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:09.720 walks out into the hallway, one of the intruders uses Donnie's shotgun to fire 190 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.639 a shot into abdomen before starting a fire and fleeing the trailer. When you 191 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:18.039 watch the scene in the reenactment, you'll see that when the shot is fired, 192 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.919 the gunman is standing literally only inches away from Donnie while he's waking up 193 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.320 on the couch. Yet he somehow does not notice Donnie and just decides to 194 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:31.200 completely ignore him and not shoot him too. The most ridiculous part of the 195 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:37.879 scenario is that Donnie supposedly tended to his wounded sister and move Julie's body onto 196 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:41.159 the porch before helping his parents with the fire, which would explain why Julie 197 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.960 wound up crawling to the vacant lat across the road. But the problem is 198 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.039 that at no point before he was arrested or put on trou for murder did 199 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.960 Donnie tell his parents or anybody else that he witnesses Julie gets shot by this 200 00:14:54.039 --> 00:15:00.120 mysterious intruder, which seems like a pretty important detail to share if both if 201 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.840 your sisters have been murdered and your family's home burned down. Yeah, this 202 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:11.120 doesn't work because Donnie even was seen by his parents screaming get out, get 203 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.200 out, and the girls weren't present. She one of them believed they might 204 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.600 have seen somebody else, another person there. I don't believe Donnie's sleeping through 205 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:26.600 this either a shotgun blast and you slept through that. I just I don't 206 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:30.600 see that being possible whatsoever. And you brought up the point about how if 207 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.279 these intruders saw an extra car parked outside the house, they might be discouraged 208 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:39.080 from going in there, thinking that there were more people to possibly have to 209 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.279 overcome. And let's just say theoretically that these were intruders who were specifically targeting 210 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:48.440 Jill and Julie, that maybe they wanted to break in and sexually assault them 211 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.080 in their bedroom or something. Yet they're going through the front door and they're 212 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:56.080 not discouraged at all by seeing an extra person there sleeping on the couch, 213 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.799 Like they would have to pass by Donnie before they even made it to the 214 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:03.159 bedrooms. So that's just another hole. And like why they would decide to 215 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.919 do this and then just leave Donnie alone, even though he's the first person 216 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:10.759 they would see when they went inside. And if they were there to annihilate 217 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:15.399 the entire family for whatever reason, it wasn't sexually motivated. You'd think that 218 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.799 they would murder the men first. They would get Hans and they would get 219 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:25.360 Donnie, and then they would deal with the women. After because they would 220 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:30.399 be easier to manage. You wouldn't just go straight for the most vulnerable ones 221 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.320 there, the two sixteen year old girls. No, you'd surely shoot Donnie 222 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.799 on the couch if you walked by him. And they said, like, 223 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.039 well, maybe they didn't see him. That's pretty hard to miss a grown 224 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.639 man sitting on a couch. But I'll also tell you that, you know, 225 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:45.840 you got to think about the situation here. If these people even were 226 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:51.480 just random passerbys that didn't come prepared whatsoever and hit this treasure trove in Donnie's 227 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.639 car, They're coming up to the scene and they're going, is this a 228 00:16:55.679 --> 00:17:00.399 good place to attack? Yes or no? And you have two teenage girls 229 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:03.079 that could be driving, so they could either share a car or each have 230 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:06.960 their own car, so that could be one to two cars. You got 231 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:10.200 Mom and Dad who likely have their own cars, so now you're at two, 232 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:12.160 three, four cars, and then Donnie's there, so you could have 233 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:17.640 up to five cars parked in that front yard or driveway. And to me, 234 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:19.559 if I'm looking to see who could I case, who could I go 235 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.880 attack? Who could I I would look for a single car right so that 236 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:27.559 I don't think that there's gonna be five adults that can charge me when I 237 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:33.559 walk through this door. It makes no sense. Remember, during the chaos, 238 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.119 while they were attempting to put out the fire, Hans said he asked 239 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:41.440 Donnie if he had seen the twins, and Donnie replied no. It was 240 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:47.680 only after Julie was discovered in the lot when Donnie changed his story and said 241 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:51.920 that he'd gotten her out of the trailer. Yet he didn't mention anything about 242 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:56.240 witnessing her get shot, and no one else even realized Julie had a gunshot 243 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:02.079 wound until after she was rushed to the hospital and token into surgery. This 244 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:07.200 would tie into the problematic story Donnie shared after he was caught breaking into the 245 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.799 warehouse to retrieve the shotgun, as he told police he'd taken it from the 246 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.559 car and hit it there because he feared he'd get blamed for the crime. 247 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:19.880 But once again, it was not until after Julie was taken into surgery that 248 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.039 anyone even found out a crime had occurred. For all, anyone knew, 249 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:29.519 the fire could have just been an accident, Yet Donnie's making it his top 250 00:18:29.559 --> 00:18:34.359 priority to hide a shotgun in order to avoid being blamed for shooting no one 251 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:41.240 was even aware had taken place. During his Unsolved Mysteries interview, Donnie changed 252 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.680 his story and said that he hit the shotgun because he was worried it might 253 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:49.160 get stolen. But I just don't see how a normal person would even be 254 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:55.279 thinking of something like that if they were going through the traumatic ordeal of witnessing 255 00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:00.640 their famili's home burned to the ground. If the defense scenario was and these 256 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:04.240 intruders took the shotgun from Donnie's car, it was awfully nice of them to 257 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.400 put it back there so that Donnie could grab the murder weapon and hide it 258 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.680 in order to avoid being blamed for the shooting. For an innocent person, 259 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:18.039 Donnie sure did a lot to preemptively cover his tracks for a crime that he 260 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:26.000 did not even commit. Who well, that explanation with a shotgun really does 261 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:30.480 put you in a place where you go that defense is impossible, because, 262 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.759 like you said, no one even knew the girls were shot, and therefore, 263 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.920 what would bring your attention to the fact that you had a shotgun in 264 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.079 your car. Did he ever say, I found the shotgun in my car 265 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.799 and I went and I hit it, or you know, so it wouldn't 266 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.880 get stolen, because if he found it at the scene and he goes, 267 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.440 that's my gun. Oh no, they're gonna think I did this, I 268 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.920 gotta go hide it. If that was his explanation at one point, then 269 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:59.039 he did know they were shot before anybody at the hospital did. And so 270 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.720 Donnie he really did dig himself in a deep, deep ditch. I have 271 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:11.039 no idea how the defense team convinced a jury that Donnie was not guilty. 272 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.759 I get there's reasonable doubt because more people could have been involved, but that 273 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.920 simply accomplices that haven't been caught. Donnie has to be the root of it. 274 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.960 And so the fact that the defense did a good enough job to cause 275 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:30.359 that reasonable doubt that Donnie actually was not involved pretty powerful defense attorneys. Yeah, 276 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.119 we talked about this in the last episode, but I guess maybe one 277 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.599 of the reasons is that they did not actually charge him with conspiracy to commit 278 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:40.640 murder. They charged him with murder itself. So the jury's thinking to themselves, 279 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.079 well, I think Donnie might be involved, but they never actually proven 280 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.519 that he was the guy who pulled the trigger and murdered his sister. And 281 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:51.640 if that's the case, we just have to acquit because even though this defense's 282 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:56.680 scenario is completely implausible, it still doesn't mean that Donnie was the actual trigger 283 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.960 man, and that's what he was charged with. They were saying, if 284 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.440 you can't prove he pulled the trigger himself, then we can't convict. That's 285 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:07.119 what I'm guessing. Yeah, because the jury said, we don't believe he's 286 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:11.160 innocent, but we still don't think that the prosecution had proven its case beyond 287 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:18.079 a reasonable doubt. When you break down the defense's alternate scenario from beginning to 288 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.839 end, it does seem pretty astonishing that a jury could hear this and vote 289 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:26.240 not guilty. Of course, one of the worst breaks for the prosecution's case 290 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.519 was when Julie died in the hospital before she could testify about what she saw 291 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:34.240 at trial. Given the circumstances of how she passed away, it's tempting to 292 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:40.119 believe that someone might have tampered with Julie's intravenous feeding tube to allow the air 293 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:44.279 bubble to enter our heart, But I genuinely believe that this was nothing more 294 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:48.440 than an unfortunate freak accident. Donnie had already been arrested by the time Julie's 295 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:52.160 death took place, and if anyone else was involved in this crime, I 296 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.720 highly doubt they would have been sophisticated enough to sneak into a hospital to disconnect 297 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:03.119 Julie's IV tube without being seen. That type of covert operation to eliminate a 298 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:06.240 witness is the type of thing you see in movies, but I don't see 299 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:11.319 it happening in a small town in Humboldt County, California. The circumstances of 300 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.400 Julie's death were extensively analyzed when Hans and Betty filed the civil lawsuit against the 301 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.359 hospital and took them to trial years later, but there's nothing to suggest it 302 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:25.519 was intentional sabotage. No, I'd have to agree with what Hans and Betty 303 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:29.680 fought for that it was neglect or an error on the hospital part, that 304 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:34.000 something simply wasn't checked, it wasn't inserted correctly, that it wasn't cleaned correctly, 305 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:40.799 and therefore this freak accident led to Julie's death. Now, the reality 306 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:48.640 is is that Donnie and or this mysterious intruder or intruders are responsible for her 307 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.920 death because had she not been there and the hospital due to the fire and 308 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:59.599 the shotgun blast. She'd be alive today. And it's pitiful that Julie wasn't 309 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:03.839 one a to survive this, but that she also wasn't able to gain the 310 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:10.079 strength to provide a statement to police, or to provide any kind of written 311 00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:14.839 note or anything saying this is what happened, because it's very possible if Julie 312 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.599 had regained consciousness and been able to communicate that she would have said last thing 313 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.079 I saw was Donnie coming into my room with a shotgun or running towards me 314 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:26.200 with a shotgun. Yeah, it is true because Donnie was initially only charged 315 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:30.519 with Jill's murder because Julie was still alive at the time. But they still 316 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.039 had the mindset though, when Julie died that even though this was an accident 317 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:37.880 with an air bubble, we're still going to charge Donnie with this murder as 318 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.039 well, because he was directly responsible for her winding up in the hospital to 319 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:47.200 begin with. I'm surprised that their parents didn't get a payout from the hospital 320 00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:52.880 that was rather substantial, because doctors and have to pay a huge amount of 321 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:59.240 malpractice insurance, and hospitals are usually pretty well equipped to just do these payouts 322 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.599 when these mistakes happen. So it's really unfortunate in such a tragic situation where 323 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:10.039 they'd already lost Jill and Julie was hanging on by a thread, and by 324 00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.920 a mistake that happened, they ended up losing their other daughter. And of 325 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:18.039 course she wouldn't have been there had it not been likely for Donnie. But 326 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.240 still, it's just unfortunate that they didn't get a payout there because who knows 327 00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.200 if she would have made it. Yeah, it is very sad because the 328 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.480 civil trial did not actually take place until a couple years after the murder trials, 329 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:33.400 So not only did they not get to see justice for their murdered daughters, 330 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:38.519 but they didn't even get any financial gain from the hospital's negligence. But 331 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:44.440 ask yourselves, this, would Donnie's trial have turned out differently if Julie had 332 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.279 lived to testify against him. As your recall, Julie said that she remembered 333 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:52.119 seeing Donnie's face in the flash of a shotgun blast. But even if her 334 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.640 memory was genuine, I'm not sure if this conclusively proves that he pulled the 335 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:02.160 trigger. If the unsolved mysteries the re enactment of the shooting is accurate. 336 00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:04.920 The coach Donnie was sleeping on would have been in Julie's line of sight from 337 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:10.240 the hallway, so if another person was standing near Donnie when they fired the 338 00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:15.240 shot, it's possible that Julie still could have seen Donnie's face in the flash, 339 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.359 even if he was not holding the gun. The details are pretty vague, 340 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:23.079 but it sounds like the police did not do a particularly thorough job collecting 341 00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:29.680 fingerprints from the shotgun or the empty shells, And since Donnie was not implicated 342 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:33.480 as a potential suspect until days later, I'm sure that they never checked his 343 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:40.000 hands for gunshot residue right after the crime took place. Even if Donnie's prints 344 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.400 were on the shotgun or the shells, that would hardly implicate him, since 345 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:49.160 he borrowed or bought these items. But if they had found fingerprints belonging to 346 00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:53.880 anyone else, then that points to another shooter being involved, though it doesn't 347 00:25:53.880 --> 00:26:00.720 necessarily clear Donnie. So I totally forgot that Julie had said she saw Donnie's 348 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.759 face, So to just back up from what I was saying a minute ago, 349 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:11.119 I almost think that it's possible that was that said at trial? Was 350 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.680 that allowed to be said at trial because she was deceased at that point and 351 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.400 he couldn't cross examine her. Is that was she allowed to testify? No, 352 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.079 she only gave like a statement in the hospital, but they could not 353 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.440 allow her statement to be used at trial because the defense would not be able 354 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:29.160 to cross examiners since she passed away. I wonder how much the parents knew 355 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:33.240 about the brief statement that she was able to give prior to the trial then, 356 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.680 because at the end, if the police said, look, it wasn't 357 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:41.440 a missible in trial, or the prosecutor sat down and said, listen, 358 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.559 I need you to be very weary of you know, I want to be 359 00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:47.960 very honest with you and transparent. Here's the things we could not present at 360 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:52.960 trial. And they heard that their baby girl, in her last moments to 361 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:57.440 communicate on this earth, said that her brother had she had seen him as 362 00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:03.400 the shotgun blast goes off. As a mother, I would believe my baby 363 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.000 girl's voice, whether the police could prove it or not, and that could 364 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.359 be a game changer on the way I defended my son. Yeah, that's 365 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:14.359 a good point, because that wasn't used as evidence. As trials, so 366 00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:18.440 it is possible that Hans and Betty just were unaware of this story about seeing 367 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.039 Donnie's face in the flash until after the trial took place, and that could 368 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.480 have played a role in changing their minds. The biggest piece of evidence which 369 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.200 God Donnie acquitted was the eyewitness accounts from the neighbors who saw two men standing 370 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:34.440 outside the Handsome residence while it was on fire. The sound of a car 371 00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:38.759 screeching down the street was also apparently heard, which suggests that someone fled the 372 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:44.480 scene. It doesn't sound like the witnesses provided a detailed enough description of the 373 00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:48.119 two men for a composite sketch, so I initially wondered if they might have 374 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.440 actually seen Hans and Donnie while they were trying to put out the fire. 375 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.079 But Hans is a pretty distinct looking bald guy, so I think he would 376 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.480 have been recognized if one of the men was him. It's also been that 377 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.920 two men showed up at the scene a few hours later who appeared to have 378 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:07.880 ashes on their clothing, suggesting that they may have already been there when the 379 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.799 trailer was on fire. I've never seen this information corroborate it, but following 380 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:18.000 Donnie's trial. Someone wrote in a letter to the Eureka Times Standard newspaper in 381 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.119 which they pointed out the pieces of evidence which leaned away from Donnie, and 382 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.680 they mentioned that one of these two men with ashes on their clothing was the 383 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:30.160 step son of a local deputy. It almost sounded like the writer was trying 384 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.599 to imply that the authorities pinned the crime on Donnie in order to protect someone 385 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:38.039 who had a connection to law enforcement. Well, considering all the evidence against 386 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:42.480 Donnie, I certainly don't agree with that assessment, particularly since he might never 387 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:47.519 have appeared on law enforcement's radar as a suspect if he hadn't returned to the 388 00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:52.319 warehouse to retrieve the shotgun. But I certainly don't rule out the possibility that 389 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.480 these two unidentified men could have been Donnie's accomplices. Well, think about this. 390 00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.920 Let's say you're a law enforcement agent and use his inspect your son was 391 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.400 an accomplice in this murder. I don't think you'd actively be pursuing Donnie either, 392 00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:11.480 because usually accomplices are tied directly to the person who hires them or conspires 393 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.680 with them to carry out the crime. So when you do a small circle 394 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.519 of who Donnie knows and who Donnie could have hired. If it really is 395 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:23.160 a local law enforcement kid, who I'd be looking at some crazy serial killer 396 00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:27.839 stranger theory and trying to prove something like that. Not Donnie hiring two kids, 397 00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:33.640 one of which might be mine, to commit this crime. Yeah, 398 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.880 exactly. I kind of wish we had more information about this angle, but 399 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:40.519 it would actually not surprise me in the least if perhaps Donnie himself could have 400 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:44.119 written this anonymous letter to the newspaper just to say that, hey, there's 401 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:47.920 plenty of evidence leaning towards Donnie, and then just tried to point the crime 402 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:52.440 in another angle just to make himself look more innocent. We also have the 403 00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.720 account from Betty who said that she saw Donnie running out of the trailer and 404 00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:02.440 yelling get out of here right after the fire started. If Donnie had been 405 00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:06.680 yelling at intruders he saw on the property, he never told anyone during the 406 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.359 early stages of the investigation, which is why I think it's reasonable to assume 407 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.640 that Donnie was yelling at someone who assisted him with the crime and wanted them 408 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.240 to leave before his family saw them. So if Donnie committed the crime, 409 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:25.680 alongside others, you have to ask what exactly was their plan. I mean, 410 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.920 whenever a murder plot doesn't make much sense, I usually just chalk it 411 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.160 up to the fact that criminals are often stupid. But it's really hard to 412 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:38.400 figure out what the perpetrators were attempting here. Since all the items used during 413 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.720 the commission of this crime, including the shotgun, the shells, and the 414 00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:48.880 cans of gasoline, could all be traced back to Donnie, this definitely suggests 415 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.880 that he planned the whole thing, So why would he need accomplices in the 416 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.680 first place. Donnie lived in Fortuna, which is around seventy miles away from 417 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:02.160 Willow Creek, so it seems to me that if there were others involved, 418 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:07.279 Donnie's most logical course of action would have been to orchestrate a murder for hire 419 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.279 plot and have these accomplices attack his family on a night when he was at 420 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.319 home in Fortuna and had an airtight alibi. Why do this on the one 421 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.759 night when Donnie just happens to be staying with his family. If Hans, 422 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:23.839 Betty, Jill, and Julie were all murdered and Donnie was the sole survivor, 423 00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:30.200 he would automatically become the focus of the investigation and arouse suspicion. Part 424 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.440 of me wonders if Donnie was not planning to have his accomplices do this until 425 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:38.759 after he returned home to Fortuna, but they jumped the gun and screwed up 426 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.920 broke into his family's trailer on the wrong night when he happened to be there. 427 00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:48.559 Given how nonsensical this whole plan seemed to be, that probably would have 428 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:52.759 been power for the course. Well, another silly thing is if you're Donnie 429 00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.480 and you're hiring somebody to help you with the commission of the crime. You're 430 00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.000 right, you don't show up right that you hire someone, so you're not 431 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.839 at this scene of the crime. That's the smart thing to do. Well, 432 00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:07.200 not the smart thing to do everyone listening, That is not smart. 433 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:12.279 However, if you're saying Donnie hired these people, he would not be there, 434 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:16.720 and you also would not be the one purchasing all of the items needed 435 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:21.839 because it directly goes back to you and it's easy to prove. So you 436 00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:27.440 would have those accomplices both by different items needed for the commission of the crime 437 00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:31.599 or steal items needed for the commission of the crime so that nothing could be 438 00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:36.799 linked back to you. And yet Donnie did everything for them. Why would 439 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.880 you hire them and share your money or share whatever you gain from this. 440 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:44.960 You did all the hard work yourself in the beginning. And just the fact 441 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.279 that he bought, like the kansa gasoline on his own credit card, Like, 442 00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:51.400 how long does he think it's going to take investigators to notice this? 443 00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.000 So it just seems like he did not think this whole thing through. And 444 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:59.279 I actually do think there might be some credence onto this theory where Donnie told 445 00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:01.640 his family to a I'm saying that I'm going to be stopping by to see 446 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:05.440 my parents, and the night after I leave, I want you to go 447 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.680 there or burn down the trailer and kill them. But then they just came 448 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.440 one night early while he was still there, and that could have been one 449 00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:14.240 of the reasons he was yelling get out of here, saying you're not supposed 450 00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.759 to be here. You screwed this whole thing up. So, like we 451 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.960 said, even though it seems obvious Donnie was guilty, just trying to figure 452 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:25.000 out the logic of this plan is just makes your head explode. It's bad 453 00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:29.400 enough that Donnie purchased items which could be traced back to him, But I 454 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:32.880 think it's particularly stupid that he would borrow the shotgun from a friend of his. 455 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.359 Even if Donnie had been able to get rid of the murder weapon, 456 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:40.680 this person is bound to be asking Donnie for their gun back at some point 457 00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:45.839 and might become suspicious after learning that Donnie's sisters just happened to be killed with 458 00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:51.880 a shotgun only three days after he borrowed it. I have read some gossip 459 00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:55.599 online, though I've never seen this information substantiated, that Donnie had issues with 460 00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:00.079 drugs during this time period, and the entire crime might have been orchestrated because 461 00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:05.400 he owed a drug debt to someone. If the whole thing was drug related, 462 00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:09.519 that might explain the desperation and lack of logic associated with many of Donnie's 463 00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:14.880 actions. This just does not come across as a well thought out murder plot, 464 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.519 and the vast majority of the time, anyone who makes these types of 465 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.840 stupid mistakes would wind up in prison, So it seems like Donnie just got 466 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.599 incredibly lucky. If those neighbors had not reported seeing the two men near their 467 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:31.519 trailer, there might have been less reasonable doubt in the jury's minds. Oh 468 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:36.400 for sure. I think that's the only reason that the defense attorneys were able 469 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:40.800 to take this idea of accomplices and magnify that as a whole defense strategy. 470 00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:45.840 So could there have been two people walking by, Yes? Absolutely. Could 471 00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:49.599 there have been someone who jumped in their car and drove off because they see 472 00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:53.599 this house like a blaze with a fire, yes. Does that mean that 473 00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:59.280 they were Donnie's accomplices. No, but it did give the jury that doubt, 474 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.480 and it did get the defense attorneys a tool to say, look, 475 00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:07.000 I'm not the one saying it. The neighbor said they saw somebody. So 476 00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:12.199 now you can't be so sure that it was Donnie and it worked. Yeah, 477 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:15.320 it's true. We can't be one hundred percent certain that those were accomplices. 478 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:17.960 It could have just been some passers by who saw this fire and decided 479 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.119 to stop, but they just didn't want to get involved, so they drove 480 00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:25.960 off before the police arrived, and then just never came forward. It's possible 481 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:30.880 that the main reason Donnie had accomplices is that he wanted his family dead but 482 00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:36.079 just lacked the stomach to kill them himself, which is why he enlisted the 483 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:39.280 help of others. Perhaps the original plan was to burn down the trailer with 484 00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:43.960 Hans, Betty, Jill, and Julie inside, and hoped that they would 485 00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.920 all get killed in the fire. Even though Donnie brought along a shotgun as 486 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:51.719 a backup plan, he may have hoped that it wouldn't have to be used. 487 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:54.960 If a trailer fire was the exact cause of death, it wouldn't have 488 00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:00.480 looked implausible that Donnie was the only member of the family to survive, since 489 00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:04.239 he was sleeping on the couch next to the sliding glass door and would have 490 00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:07.159 been able to escape quicker than everyone else. Of course, Donnie would still 491 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:10.400 have to get rid of the gas cans, and I'm sure the authorities would 492 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:15.719 find evidence that arson took place. But like we've reiterated many times, it 493 00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:21.039 doesn't look like Donnie was a criminal mastermind. But it seems like before this 494 00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:24.440 plan was completed, Julie heard something and woke up. Once she went into 495 00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:29.719 the hallway, she may have seen something which led to her being shot. 496 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:34.039 We may never know for certain if it was Donnie himself who fired the shot 497 00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.679 or one of his accomplices, but I'm sure this probably through the original plan 498 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:42.920 for a complete loop, since the noise wile Hans and Betty up and they 499 00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:46.840 were able to escape the burning trailer. What's still not clear to me is 500 00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:52.199 when exactly Jill would have been shot. The theory presented by the defense at 501 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:55.760 trial is that one of the intruders remained inside the trailer while Hans, Betty, 502 00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:00.039 and Donnie ran to the warehouse to grab the fire extinguished, and the 503 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:06.639 intruder used that opportunity to shoot Jill. But that doesn't make sense because unless 504 00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.239 this assailant had a personal grudge against the twins, why would they hang around 505 00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:14.559 just to murder Jill and not make an attempt to kill the rest of the 506 00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:20.039 family. It doesn't make any sense. You're right, it makes no sense. 507 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.280 And you know this sound of a shotgun blast. Yes, you have 508 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:28.119 a fire roaring, and you have the sounds there. I'm assuming pops and 509 00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:31.599 bursts and things like that would be happening, but a shotgun blast is pretty 510 00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:36.440 distinct, and it would be very hard for me to fathom that no one 511 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.599 would hear it. If it's if it's phased like this, that like they 512 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:45.719 shoot this one one child, start this fire, have the family run out 513 00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.559 the house, and they're running back towards the house with fire extinguishers and they 514 00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:53.320 shoot again. They're in the fires going Why would someone sit and hang out 515 00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:58.199 in a fire that's taking the whole house down. I just don't think that 516 00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:02.480 that would be a very plause solution to sit and wait for the other family 517 00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:07.400 members to leave while the homes burning down, just so you can shoot Jill. 518 00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:14.119 I've seen differing accounts from differing sources about where exactly Jill's body was found, 519 00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:16.599 as one source said that it was in the kitchen area, while another 520 00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:21.480 said she was found in a fetal position inside her bedroom closet, and that, 521 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:24.519 in addition to her gunshot wound, smoke inhalation was one of her causes 522 00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:29.199 of death. If true, this would mean that after she was shot, 523 00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:32.400 Jill crawled into the closet to hide from the fire before she perished, which 524 00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:37.440 is a truly horrifying thought. Even though it's possible that Donnie always intended to 525 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:42.480 kill everyone, the fact that he was seeing yelling get out of here before 526 00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:45.760 any attempt was made to shoot Hans and Betty makes me wonder if perhaps the 527 00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:51.400 main motive for his plan was to kill his half sisters possibly because of some 528 00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:55.079 deep seated hatred he had towards them. I really have no idea what Donnie 529 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:59.519 has been up to these past three decades, and since he changed his name, 530 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:01.880 it's not like you can just search for information about him on Google. 531 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.599 If Donnie was the sole perpetrator of this crime, then there really isn't anything 532 00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:10.639 else that can be done due to double jeopardy. But the evidence does suggest 533 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:16.199 that multiple individuals were involved, so theoretically there are others who could be brought 534 00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:21.239 to tryal for these murders. But given the amount of time that has passed, 535 00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.599 unless Donnie decides to fess up and share the complete truth, we may 536 00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:30.079 never know the exact details of what happened. However, if you happen to 537 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:34.880 have any information about the murders of Jill and Julie Hanson which points to someone 538 00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:40.599 else besides Donnie Hanson being involved, please contact the appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley 539 00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:45.159 any final thoughts on the case. This is one of those cases that, 540 00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:49.639 when we sit back and we look at it, you have two young girls 541 00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:54.679 who had the entire world at their feet. Everyone described them as kind and 542 00:39:54.800 --> 00:40:02.199 loving and ambitious and driven, and they had a family that was intact right 543 00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:07.320 there in their home. They're supposed to be safe and their brother comes to 544 00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:12.840 visit, and that's a night that should be full of fun and family memories 545 00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:16.159 and things like that, and they lose their life. There's no explanation, 546 00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:22.239 there's no way of knowing why this happened. But I think it's pretty clear 547 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:29.119 that it's Donnie Hanson. And beyond the misjustice, right, the injustice that 548 00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:34.760 occurs in this case because he's found not guilty, you have these two parents, 549 00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:38.719 Like the father said, I lost three children that night, not two, 550 00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:45.119 because I'm one hundred percent convinced that Donnie killed my daughters. Their daughters 551 00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.440 were fighting to save their own lives. Remember Julie crawls out. It looks 552 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:53.360 like Jill crawled to try to be safe from the fire. And they're literally 553 00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:58.840 fighting for their lives that their brother stole from them. And then the parents 554 00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:01.480 have to live with them as well. Not only can we, you know, 555 00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:06.039 step away and say we lost our two babies in a tragic house fire. 556 00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:09.320 Now it's a murder that was committed by our son. And so the 557 00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:15.159 grief and realization of what occurred that night for the parents is something I just 558 00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:19.760 don't even know how you'd begin to process. My prayers go out to that 559 00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.599 family, and I pray that Becky's having a life that is purposeful and filled 560 00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:28.320 with love and joy and happiness. It was robbed from her as well and 561 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:35.280 her parents. But man, I would love to find out and be able 562 00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:39.880 to say, there's concrete evidence that Donnie did it. He confessed to somebody. 563 00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:44.239 It's public knowledge. Even though he can't be tried in court. It 564 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:50.760 would just feel good to know confirmation there were no accomplices. This was Donnie. 565 00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:53.760 Here's his real name now, and you know, complicate his life a 566 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:57.360 little bit. I don't know if that's evil, but I feel like there 567 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:01.519 should be consequences. You don't just get to get away taking everyone's life. 568 00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:06.639 He changed his parents' life that day as well in Becky's life too, so 569 00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:12.920 he stole five lives that night when he decided to shoot his sisters. It's 570 00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.360 disgusting. I really hope that he gets his karma come upance, because I 571 00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:22.639 truly believe that he deserves it. He is somebody who it's very clear from 572 00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:25.199 the evidence that he was the person who was responsible. It looks like he 573 00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:30.960 may have had outside accomplices in what could be described as like the worst laid 574 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:36.239 plans ever. And it's a miracle that he isn't behind bars for what he 575 00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:43.079 did. To think of the trauma that poor Julie had to endure crawling out 576 00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:46.760 of that house after a shotgun blast to the stomach, how I can't even 577 00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:52.079 imagine what that did to our body, just blew it apart. And to 578 00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:55.559 know that her sister, her other half, her literal twin, is in 579 00:42:55.599 --> 00:43:00.599 there fending for her life, and you've got a wonder like connection twins have. 580 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:04.360 Did she know when her twin sister was gone and that it was just 581 00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.079 her left and wondering if her parents are alive? It must have been so 582 00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.840 horrific. And then for Hans and Betty at the scene, going okay, 583 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.360 well, Donnie's saying that he rescued Julie, but he can't even talk about 584 00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:22.559 what type of burns she had or if she was suffering from any burns. 585 00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:27.400 He had no information to give, and so I'm sure upfront they had some 586 00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:32.679 trepidations about trusting him. But like Robin had said, during the initial stages, 587 00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:37.400 his mom had said that she was happy that he was acquitted but later 588 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:42.440 on, Hans had said that he believed that Donnie was one hundred percent responsible. 589 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:47.920 So this family was decimated by the actions of one person, and Robin 590 00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:52.280 you had mentioned that it could have been a drug debt. That makes a 591 00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:54.920 lot of sense to me, because these seem like the actions of a very 592 00:43:54.960 --> 00:44:00.719 desperate person. But even if he was successful and the entire family had died 593 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:05.800 in the house fire and there had been no shotgun blasts to the stomachs of 594 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.920 his sisters, You're still going to have to split the money with your other 595 00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:13.480 sister. Are you going to go and try and kill her as well, 596 00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:17.800 or are you just going to hope that you're going to get the money in 597 00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:23.400 some kind of expedient fashion, which settling estates and getting life insurance money can 598 00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:28.519 take a very long time, Ashley. I'm sure you're a lot more well 599 00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:31.360 versed in dealing with something like that, But it can take a long time, 600 00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:36.119 can it not? Oh? Absolutely absolutely it can. And it's I 601 00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.840 mean, this whole case, it's so complicated. It's a compounding complication that 602 00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:45.000 makes it impossible to think of how you would move forward from this. Yeah, 603 00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:47.840 my heart just goes out to the family. I think it's pretty clear 604 00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:53.199 from the evidence that we have a good idea of what happened here, and 605 00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:59.800 it just really irks me that Donnie has never faced justice for what I believe 606 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.360 he did. Yeah, I said right at the outset that I would classify 607 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:07.760 this as one of the least mysterious mysteries we've covered, because it seems pretty 608 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:13.639 obvious who's responsible. But the only big unanswered question here is not only if 609 00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:17.079 the others involved, but motive. Because we talked about how no one had 610 00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:21.760 a bad word to say about Hans, Betty, Jill, or Julie. 611 00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:24.840 They just seemed like a very nice, well rounded family, So it just 612 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:29.400 seems so odd that they would have this one black sheep who just seemed cold 613 00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:32.519 enough to be capable of murdering them all. And that's why I would really 614 00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:37.960 love to know more about Donnie's backstory, like what happened while he was growing 615 00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:40.320 up to make him turn like this. Is he just born bad or something 616 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.519 like that, or did he just become desperate because he had accumulated a drug 617 00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:49.960 dead or something. Those are the things we probably will never know unless Donnie 618 00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:54.119 or anyone else was involved decides to make a confession but I still remember watching 619 00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:58.559 this on Unsolved Mysteries when it originally aired, and I was thinking to myself, 620 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.280 why is this an unsolved mystery? We know who did it, and 621 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:06.440 was pretty shocked when they reveal that Donnie actually got acquitted at trial and that 622 00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:10.320 he was brazen enough to appear on TV even though he concealed his identity to 623 00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:15.079 say that the accusations that he was guilty are absolutely ludicrous, even though it 624 00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:19.840 just seemed pretty obvious that he was very lucky to get away with murder. 625 00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:23.400 And at the time, I wondered, well, I'm glad that they're featuring 626 00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:27.920 this on the show, but is there really anything that can be done because 627 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:31.400 Donnie can't be tried again because of double Jeopardy. But I do think there 628 00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:37.719 is a decent chance that there were others involved, and that perhaps someone else 629 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:40.639 actually pulled the trigger which murdered those two girls, that even if Donnie was 630 00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:45.920 complicit, he was not the one who actually killed them. And it's probably 631 00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:49.719 a minuscule chance, but there is always a chance that if other people were 632 00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:52.800 responsible, they can still be charged with this crime and we can learn the 633 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:57.239 full truth. Even though Donnie will never go to prison. But yeah, 634 00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:00.599 just an incredibly sad story. There aren't too many victims I feel more terrible 635 00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:06.000 for than Haunt and Betty Hanson, and I hope they've had a stable life 636 00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:09.480 after since enduring this automagical tragedy. And I hope Donnie has lived a miserable 637 00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:14.079 life these past three decades, even though he has managed to start a new 638 00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.360 life under a new identity. But yeah, he definitely did get away with 639 00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:22.400 murder. And this is one of the most shocking acquittals I've ever seen in 640 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:25.480 a criminal case. Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit 641 00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:30.440 about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been 642 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:35.400 around for three years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like early 643 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:39.159 ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers and sign thank you cards 644 00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:43.840 to anyone who signs up with us on Patreon if you join our five dollars 645 00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:49.559 tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about 646 00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:52.360 cases which are not featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're 647 00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:57.320 exclusive to Patreon, and if you join our highest tier tier free, the 648 00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:01.079 ten dollar tier. One of the features we offer is a audio commentary track 649 00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:07.000 over classic episodes of Unsawved Mysteries, where you can download an audio file and 650 00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:12.719 then boot up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play 651 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.599 it with my audio commentary playing in the background, where I just provide trivia 652 00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:21.199 and factoids about the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very 653 00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.760 first episode that I did a commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. 654 00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:29.280 So if you want to download a commentary track in which I make more 655 00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:32.440 smart ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join Tier three. 656 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:36.320 So I want to let you know a little bit about the Jules and Ashy 657 00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.800 Patreons. So there's early ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've 658 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:44.079 got our Path Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so 659 00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:46.280 they're not very mini, but they're just too short to turn into a series, 660 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:50.760 and we're really enjoying doing those. So we hope you'll check out those 661 00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.320 patreons. We'll link them in the show notes. So I want to thank 662 00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:57.440 you all for listening, and any chance you have to share us on social 663 00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:00.039 media with a friend or durrate and review is great. Appreciate it. You 664 00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:04.960 can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com. You can reach us 665 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:07.639 on Twitter at the pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle 666 00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:13.159 up because cold trails and chili pass call for warm clothing. Music by Paul 667 00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:15.519 Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy