This is a studio both and production warning. Listening to this podcast may cause
on mitigating obsession and cognitive dissonance. All names have been changed to protect the
innocent, the insane, and everyone else in between. It was a turn
of the new year. George H. W. Bush had just been elected
president. The TV show Roseanne debuted, Construction of the chunnel connecting England to
France began, and in Oakland, California, two teenage girls were in the
early stages of what would become a year's long letter writing campaign of terror.
December twenty third, nineteen eighty seven. Dear Mark, I just want you
to know that I think you're right. We should have looked behind the stove
before calling the repairman over. I don't want Karen to know that I don't
think that you should have to pay for this repair, So please don't tell
her that I didn't tell you that. I don't think she's wrong. I
just want to play dumb on this one. Ellen. As the old saying
goes, you can almost always prove that something has occurred, but it's nearly
impossible to prove that something hasn't occurred. But as we all hopefully know by
now, just because you can't prove that something didn't happen doesn't necessarily mean that
it did happen. I think we take for granted how difficult it is to
research anything trivial that occurred in the pre Internet days. When I first started
looking into these letters, my Space had only been around for a year,
Newspapers dot com didn't even exist, Smartphones weren't really a thing, so proving
a person existed was hard, let alone proving a whole series of events connected
to that person occurred. And all I really had were four names, three
of which were pretty common, and an address, so that's where I started.
I googled the address of Karen and Ellen's cottage and was pleasantly surprised to
find that it actually existed in Oakland, a small cottage, just as a
girl's describe it in their letters. So, feeling slightly more confident, I
googled Mark's name, and sure enough, there was a landlord in the East
Bay with his name, but there was no way to get a hold of
him. All that really came up were references to him in various meeting minutes.
But in searching for Karen and Ellen, there were some documents that will
come up later in the letters, which seemed like a very good starting point,
but they originated out of state, and at this point a mere curiosity
wasn't enough for me to pay for an investigative trip up to Oregon, where
the girls grew up, and so for the first of several times, I
gave up and we resumed the almost monthly tradition of inviting people, over plying
them with wine, and reading the letters until someone inevitably with their pants.
January twenty first, nineteen eighty eight, dear Mark, The toilet here makes
a noise I don't like when I flush it. It makes a loud,
gurgling sound. My daddy had the same problem. He had jet toilets put
in in our house and no toilet flushing noise. Good news. General plumbing
around the corner from here has jet toilets in stock. I like you to
put one in here. The white jet toilets cost one hundred and seventy five
dollars, but I would like one in eggshell. They cost two hundred and
twenty five dollars. Please let me know when you can do the job,
Yours, Ellen, February fifth, nineteen eighty eight, dear Mark, Marcia,
a former tenant of yours, is a good friend of me. She
tells me that when she used to rent her apartment from you on McKinley Street,
you used to take her free firewood for free. She says, you
take free firewood to lots of your tenants. How come I never get any?
Yours, Ellen, February eighth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Ellen,
it is true that I used to give firewood to Marshall. It is also
true that I still give free firewood to some of my tenants, those with
fireplaces. Your cottage has no wood stove or fireplace. Sincerely, Mark.
Dear Mark, I know I haven't gotten a fireplace. If I did have
one, I would have seen it by now. But it's irrelevant. If
you give free firewood to your other tenants, I should get a free share
too, Yours, Ellen, the Ruary twenty third, nineteen eighty eight,
Dear Mark, when I moved in here, you refuse to pay for our
phone stuff and cable TV stuff and our cleaning stuff, and I'll let you
get away with all that. Now you're refusing to pay for my stove repair,
and I've got to put my feet down on this one. My boyfriend
says that we should just accept that this is the way that tenants always get
exploited by landlords in a capitalist system. But I'm not going along with that.
Everyone knows that a landlord always pays for stove repair. I thought about
your argument that this wasn't a stove repair because the stove wasn't broken. But
you're just playing a word game with me. So I'm deducting eighty five dollars
for my next rent anyhow. Karen, April fifth, nineteen eighty eight,
Dear Mark, I need an air conditioner. It is very hot in this
house with all the windows closed on hot days. I found a window air
conditioner at Sears for five hundred and twenty dollars including installation and a service contract,
plus sixty two dollars sales tax. Yours, Karen, April eighth,
nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, I am not buying you an air conditioner.
I suggest that, on the few hot days we get around here,
that you open your windows. Mark April eleventh, nineteen eighty eight, Dear
Mark, I keep the window was closed because the people who use the car
wash on the corner play their car radios very loudly, and it is too
nosy in here with the windows open when people who use the car wash play
their car radios very loudly when they wash their cars. Yours, Karen,
April fourteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, the car wash is very
noisy. If it is unreasonably loud, you might consider filing a complaint with
the police. They may be able to pressure the owner to control the noise.
I repeat, I am not buying you an air conditioner. Sincerely,
Mark, April twentieth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I showed your
letter to my grandmother when I visited her over the weekend in Palm Desert,
where she lives. She has a much bigger apartment than me, and her
rent is only five hundred and fifty dollars a month. My grandmother says you
were being totally unreasonable. She says all her friends have an air conditioning and
the landlord always pays for the thing. Yours, Karen, April twenty fourth,
nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, the climate in the San Francisco Bay
area is quite different from that in Death Valley, which is near Palm Desert,
where your grandmother lives. I repeat, I am not buying you an
air conditioner. Sincerely, Mark. It was the summer of nineteen eighty eight
Nancy Reagan was using a psychic to schedule her White House events. The average
monthly rent was four hundred twenty dollars. Crack cocaine made its American debut,
and in Oakland, California, two teenage girls were struggling with jurisdiction. May
tenth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Mark. Last week a man named How
stop by here. He said he used to live in a chicken coop that
used to be where my cottage is now. How says he used to pay
you two hundred dollars a month rent. I pay five hundred ninety dollars a
month. I don't think the Berkeley rent control law allows that much of an
increase, yours, Karen, May fifteenth, nineteen eighty eight, dear Mark.
I called the Berkeley Rent Control Board, and they say that you can
charge twenty six point four percent plus twenty five dollars more than you were charging
on December first, nineteen eighty I figure my rent should be two hundred and
sixteen dollars and ninety cents, which is twenty six point four percent plus twenty
five dollars more than the two hundred dollar as Hell was paying. That means
you on me a refund of nine thousand, two hundred dollars. According to
my boyfriend, you can neither send me a check or take it off my
rent if you agree with those numbers yours, Karen. About a year and
a half after I received the letters, life had some changes for me.
I ended up leaving the Bay Area and heading north to Portland. I moved
with only the essentials, so the Karen and Ellen letters sat in a box
and my parents' garage for a year while I made a life for myself in
Oregon. When my parents finally came to visit, they brought the majority of
my stuff up with them, and as I sat there going through boxes,
I stumbled upon those old letters. And just a few nights later, the
old tradition continued, only this time in Portland for the whole new circle of
friends laughing at the Karen and Ellen letters. And that's when we realized something
amazing. I was now living in the girl's hometown. May eighteenth, nineteen
eighty eight. Oh, Dear Karen, you don't seem to understand the concept
of jurisdiction. Your house is in Oakland. The Berkeley Rent Control Board has
no jurisdiction in Oakland. The fact that you attend college in Berkeley is irrelevant.
The rent you pay is lawful under Oakland's rent control law. Mark May
twenty one, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Mark, I would like to get
the weeds in my yard cut down and landscaped, because it's in the shade
a lot. I think ferns would be nice. I know a landscaper,
kiro Yamashita, would will do the job for you. I'd be willing to
let you deduct the cost of this from the ninety two hundred dollars you owe
me yours. Karen, May twenty fifth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen,
I repeat Berkeley's rent control law is not enforcible in Oakland. I do
not owe you ninety two hundred dollars or any other amount, and I will
not pay you for your gardening or landscaping. I would like to suggest to
you that, since you feel I am unreasonable and am overcharging you for what
you're renting from me, you consider finding another place to live with a landlord.
More to your liking. Very sincerely, Mark, June third, nineteen
eighty eight. Dear Mark, I was really hurt by your last letter.
You shouldn't take your owing me the ninety two hundred dollars personally. I know
the house is in Oakland, but you advertised it at the University student housing
office, which is in Berkeley. My boyfriend, who is thinking of going
to law school, says that means jurisdiction is irreverent. Yours, Karen,
June sixth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Mark, I saw a commercial for
a movie yesterday who framed Roger Rabbit Really worried about it. You see,
it's all about a rabbit named Roger Rabbit. Roger Rabbit is married. His
wife is named Jessica Rabbit. But she's not a rabbit. She's a person,
you know, a real person, even though she's only a cartoon.
Well, why is her last name rabbit? In cartoons, the last name
of the thing is supposed to tell you what kind of thing the thing is,
you know, like Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, bugs Bunny. Well,
if they can call a person Jessica Rabbit, maybe they'll do the same
thing with other cartoons like the next thing you know, Mickey Mouse could be
called Mickey Rabbit even though he's still a mouse. Kids would be all confused,
and so am I. I think this is serious. Ellen, June
sixth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Carib, I do not owe you any
money. Your house is in Oakland, not in Berkeley. You do not
get a pick which city's rent control law you liked. If you file a
petition with the Berkeley Rent Control Board, you will lose your case, but
still cause me the inconvenience of having to attend a hearing and hiring a lawyer.
If you put me through this expense and inconvenience, I warn you I
will evict you. This is no joke. Very sincerely, Mark, June
tenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I don't want to leave my
house, but i'll go if you insist, after you send me the ninety
two hundred dollars you owe me. My boyfriend is going to visit the Berkeley
Rent Control Board this week. I don't want to spoil our relationship, but
I can really use the ninety two hundred dollars. Yours, Karen, June
twelfth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Karen, as I have already told you,
it doesn't matter where I live, where you go to school, or
where you pay your rent. Your house is not in Berkeley, not in
Oakland. The Berkeley Rent Control Board has no jurisdiction in Oakland, which is
a separate incorporated city. While I don't want you to go to the Berkeley
Rent Control Board, since you already intend to go there anyway, ask them
about restiction, and perhaps ask your lawyer too. Mark June fourteenth, nineteen
eighty eight, dear Mark, According to Karen's boyfriend Rob, your jurisdiction argument
is inethical. I don't know a lot about jurisdiction, but I think it's
overlooking the real issue. If different places have different rules for different things,
it seems unfair. Like if I live in one place with different rules for
different things, then I moved to a different place, I don't know what
the rules are in that new place. It just seems confusing for everyone.
Rob says jurisdiction is a capitalist loophole. Sometimes I think I agree with Rob,
and sometimes I think I don't. What do you think, yours?
Ellen, June fifteenth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Mark, it's obvious to
me that you are taking the ninety two hundred dollars you owe me personally,
even if you don't. Since I wouldn't want our friendship to be spoiled by
this, I'm willing to settle this matter by splitting the amount of half.
If you'll send me forty two hundred dollars, I'll let the other forty two
hundred dollars go. The Berkeley Rent Control Board told me that your jurisdiction argument
is yours. Karen June seventeenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, I
do not owe you ninety two hundred dollars or any other amount. My last
letter was no joke. If you file a petition with a Berkeley Rent Control
Board for a rent rebate on your house, which is in Oakland, I
will send you a thirty day eviction notice within twenty four hours. Think it
over. You need legal advice, and I don't mean from your boyfriend who
is quote thinking of going to law school. End quote. Very sincerely,
Mark, June nineteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, my boyfriend may
not be a lawyer, but he's got an application for law school at the
tough University in Boston, and he says he can get in if he wants
to go there. He's smart. Well, he went to the Berkeley rent
Control Board two days ago, but the person he spoke to didn't know anything
about jurisdiction. But she would ask someone else at her office and call us
back. So we will see who's right. Yours, Karen, June twenty
third, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, I've been reluctant to say anything
critical about your boyfriend up until now, but I must say something about him
that you will not want to hear. You have mentioned in your phone calls
to me and now in your last letter that you think your boyfriend is smart
and a reliable source on legal advice because he's quote thinking of applying to the
tough law school in Boston, and you believe he will be able to get
into this tough law school easily. The school your boyfriend is referring to is
not quote the tough university, but Toughts University, which is in Boston.
The name of the school has nothing to do with toughness, although Tofts does
have a good reputation. Besides quote thinking about applying to law school, no
matter how good or tough the school may be, does not qualify a person
to give leekl advice. I advise you again to see a real lawyer of
your own. Mark June twenty third, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Albert,
would you do me a favor send me a one page letter on your university
stationary simply stating something like a city's rent control law is not enforceable beyond a
city's jurisdiction. I think Karen would be impressed by such a letter from a
professor of law from Boston, even though you didn't teach at the tough university.
Thanks Mark, June twenty six, nineteen eighty eight. Mark, you're
right. My boyfriend says he's planning to go to Tufts. I must have
hurt him wrong, but he says Tufts is pretty tough anyway. He went
to the Berkeley rent Control Board. They said they would have to look over
my letters and yours and get back to me. The woman he spoke to
says, I may have a case. Unless I don't. It will take
them a few weeks to make up their minds. I'll get back to you
on this when they get back to me on this yours, Karen. At
this point in our initial reading of the letters, we were howling with laughter
over the stupidity of these two teenage girls and the frustration and sass of their
landlord, who was well into his fifties. In Portland, I was going
through microfiche at the local library, trying to prove that something had occurred,
something that would have certainly made the local newspapers, something that would prove that
Karen and Ellen actually existed. At that point, though there was no real
reason behind nor end game two my search, I just needed to know that
these letters were real, and needed to know that these people existed. In
the most cynical sense you could say, I was looking for proof that the
idiocy chronicled in these letters was real, that we were laughing at real people.
In the most heartfelt sense, these letters and Karen and Ellen had become
a part of my life, a part of my friends lives, something that
brought people together and then was passed on. Each time we sat down to
read these letters, there were new faces eager to hear from Karen and Ellen
and Mark. These letters had created a small and strange community, and so
while yes, I wanted proof that these idiots were real. For some reason,
it also felt like the community wasn't as strong, or valuable or true
if the letters themselves weren't true, which says a lot about the ways in
which we see and exist in the world. The Karen and Ellen Letters are
found Correspondents narrated by me Josh Hallmark and voiced by Sarah Stapleton, Sarah Kitcher,
and Jeff Powell. This episode was made possible by the following Patreon producers.
Adrian A. Yellow, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette l Benjamin
Choppa, Thong Casey, Jensen Richardson, Dana Keith, Doctor Jill Cooper,
Drew Vipond, Hallie Read, Jessica Alihozik, Jillian Notale, John O'Leary,
Kendall, c Kimberly k Lauren f Linley, tuscoff Manolas Bullacus, Megan cap
Seewell, Mike Sherman, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Sarah King, sc Shannon
Foster, Shelley Brewer, Tuesday Woodworth, Zach Ignattowitz, Warren, Beth McNally,
John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Carley McNutt Laana Sarah Ce and Lydia Fiedler.
If you'd like to support the show, go to Patreon, dot com,
slash Studio both and This episode featured music by Infinite Memories, Neon Coast,
Neon Ryder, Galactic Realms, The ap X, and Everything Hi Hi
Hi Hi Hid