Welcome back to Raised by Giants Live Discussion. Welcome everyone in the tie.
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Today we have returning guests former DoD and US Army Military Intelligence Trey Hudson.
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So with that down, we have with us here today former DoD and
US Army Military Intelligence, Anti terrorism, counterintelligence and security specialist recently retired Trey
Hudson. Welcome back to the show, my friend. It's good to see
you, hey, writer. It's always a pleasure and an honor to but
you know, to get to sit down and discuss these amazing topics with you.
I'm really excited. I'm glad you reached out to me. So I
am as we say down here in the south Land, rip roaring and raring
to go, Rip, rorn and ready to go. Let's do it.
So, you know, we've talked about a lot of topics on the Channel
since you've been coming on for a couple of years now and in the past.
We talked about the dyat Love Pass event in Russia in nineteen fifty three,
where nine hikers were found dead in mysterious circumstances. Six of them had
died from supposedly hypothermia, three of them had been killed by physical trauma.
One victim had major skull damage, two had severe trust trauma, and another
had a small crack in his skull. Four of the bodies were found in
laying. They were found laying and running water in a creek, and three
out of those four had soft tissue damage to the head and face, and
two of the bodies had missing eyes and a missing tongue, and one had
missing eyebrows. Then we also discussed the Corvinia incident in nineteen ninety three,
which was also in Russia, which was very fascinating because it was very similar
to the dat Love Pass event, but there was a survivor, and she
said one by one of their hiking crew collapsed to the ground and started convolsing,
bleeding from their eyes, nose, and mouth. Now, I didn't
know until recently that there was a case that is sort of like these two
cases that happened in Russia, but the case was in the United States that
was very similar in nature, what is called the Yuba County five from nineteen
seventy eight. And I believe you've done some research into the Yuba County five,
So can you give us a little bit of information on what happened in
that case. Yeah, And now, of course I'm having to go in
the way back machine because it's been a while since I've actually looked at the
U of five case. But Fiel me and if I start wondering as stray,
much like these young men, if I start getting off the trail,
just lead me back. You know, there are five five young men,
and I'm just going to lay the facts out there. Don't read into it.
These young men had some some mental disabilities, you know, some of
them had some psychological issues. Uh, several of them had a lower than
average intelligence quotion you know, lower lower than average IQ. But they were
functional. You know, they could they could work, they could drive cars,
you know, they could interact with people. Uh, and they were
very very big fans of I'm trying to remember the university. It's a local
basketball team. And they had left one night, all of these friends to
go see this basketball game out of town. And they never showed showed back
up at home. You know, they it should have been a you know,
an out and back, pretty straight thing. People remember seeing them at
the game, you know, watching them really get energized, you know,
with the you know, with the game as it was being played. Uh.
They actually played on a league. It played the league for developmentally challenged
individuals there in their hometown. So they were really you know, they were
sportsmen, they were athletes, you know, and they were very good friends.
And they never showed back up. And it became a very very big
mystery on what happened to these young men. And where it gets really weird
is they ended up on a very remote mountain kind of like a forest service
road, a very remote road way way off track you know, completely you
know, completely off track, miles and miles and miles back up in the
wilderness, and their car was found, but they were gone, and they
started searching Uma County and I'm trying to remember the adjacent county. They were
really ill prepared for it. If if you look at it from the perspective
of incident management, it was a very poor coordination of what they call a
unified command. So the search was disjointed. There were a lot of you
know, back and forth on who had jurisdiction, who should take the lead,
et cetera, et cetera. And this was back in the seventies,
so incident command wasn't really uh you know, developed and matured like it is
now. And because of that, they lost a lot of valuable time.
In the winter came in and which resulted in your very heavy snowfall, you
know, just burying the entire you know, what they thought was a crime
scene. And so when things finally started thalling, they started finding their bodies,
uh four of them, one I believe they never found if I'm correct,
right, And they found the bodies in such places as you know,
a few miles from the car. Really really interestingly is they found one of
the bodies in a forced service cabin which was set up as an emergency shelter.
And this cabin had a I believe it was a propane heater or heater
of some sort that you know, was self sufficient. It had food,
it had blankets. You could actually winter in there. You could survive the
winter with all the supplies they had there. But yet they found the young
man's body laying in the bunk, malnourished. He starved to death with cans
of food and a can opener, almost literally with an arm's reach. And
then they found a friend of his they thinking made it to the cabin with
him, I believe about two or three hundred yards away from the cabin,
if I'm not mistaken. So it's one of those things that was just a
total, you know, a comedy, not that it's funny, but just
this whole daisy chain of errors, and no one cause has ever been brought
forward to why these young men were so far off course. There was a
witness that saw their car and remembers seeing figures moving around inside of the vehicle.
That was the mysterious VW, which I believe got stuck by behind them.
Not long after, they went all the way up the mountain road and
got stuck in the snow drift, and uh, like I said, one
has never been found. One was actually the body was discovered by his father,
which was was rather horrifying that the father actually went out there after the
snow melt and found his son's body, saw a jacket and found the remains
of his son there inside of the clothing. Uh. So it was.
It's one of those big mysteries. It's really odd because it isn't really on
the conscious conscious consciousness of you know, people here in the continental US,
like the Diad Law pass and some of these other things. But it's equally
as mysterious because no defined, solid logical reason for this disappearance of these five
and five young men, not just one, not just two, but five
has ever been put forward. And then you start looking at you know,
looking at it through the optics of you know, like David Plaid's, you
know, his name always comes up, you know, some of the missing
for one and stuff, the paradoxical undressing, the uh, the type of
uh, you know environment that these disappearances happened, the type of weather patterns
that happened all days. You start to see a pattern, but you know
a lot of people have never heard of the Ubu County five. Well,
I think that this was a big mistake on the media's part because the media
printed in newspapers that five retarded boys went missing. Like just saying that really
brings down public interests when you use the retarded word in there, and that
makes it seem like, oh, well, we don't care about these boys.
They should have just said five boys gone missing, right right, and
that would have changed everything exactly. But instead they said five printed in bold
letters on top of the newspaper heading five retarded boys gone missing. That's ridiculous,
you know, and it really was as an insult, you know,
not only to the memory of these young men, but to their families too.
You know, these were not you know, individuals that were so mentally
incapacitated that they could not function. They you know, they could function in
society. You know, they drove up there to this basketball game and we're
in the process of driving back, so you know it really you know,
that's an interesting point because you know, once back in the seventies, it
was a different time and when you use the term retarded and I'm not saying
that as an insult, but that was the term used back then. Is
it really made us like, oh, these these people were you know,
greatly diminished mental capacity. You know, they wandered away, they got lost
and died. And that is not the case at all. You know,
it was not a case of people not knowing where they were going, and
certainly not a case of them not knowing how to get back home. And
the effort wasn't put into it like it should have. People with mental issues,
be they psychological issues, mentally illness and some other issues were pushed to
the fringes of society. They were almost treated like throwaway people. And it
was a real shame. And that's that's a very good point. That's an
excellent point writer, that it did not get the media attention, and quite
frankly, I don't think it got the law enforcement and search and rescue attention
that it should have gotten if it had been somebody of you know, maybe
of a different social you know, grouping than it was. And I think
that one of the dads of one of the missing boys told the police about
the cabins back there and that they should go back there and search them,
and then they didn't, which is another really interesting part to all this because
it seems like when these mysterious things happen, there's always some kind of weather
anomaly, which we're going to get into that here in just a little bit,
but there's always a stream weather anomaly that calls off the search in almost
every one of these cases. It's so interesting. But first, the boy
that was found in the cabin, it's theorized that somebody else was there with
him because apparently he was wrapped in all these sheets and all these blankets in
a way that made it that he couldn't have done it by himself, which
I don't know really how much truth there is that. I mean, I
could wrap myself in a bunch of sheets pretty easily. And apparently his shoes
was missing, and then the shoes of another person was there at the front
of the door, if I'm remembering correctly. I think that's right. And
I think that one of the assumptions that was made is the way the body
was wrapped, that it might have been wrapped post mortem. You know,
that somebody wrapped him almost shroudlike, you know, in the left him in
a state, you know, theyre in the cabin. Yeah. And then
another thing was is apparently the father of one of the boys went out there
and was like looking looking for them and said that he seen tracks and that
there was only supposedly four sets of tracks leading away from the car. So
what happened to the to the fifth guy that was never found? Right,
you know, And that's that's that's the big mystery is you know, you
have this. You know, we can look at it, you know,
through the lens of missing people as we look at these mysterious cases today,
and it almost fits, you know, perfectly, you know, with some
of the mysterious cases you know, all over the world of missing people.
Something else, I'm going to backtrack a little bit. We talked about,
you know, the lack of media coverage. Uh, there's some very good
podcast out there on the Yuba County five. And when you're listening to the
family as they're interviewed, I get the impression that they're from a social strata
that people tend to write off, that they're of a you know, of
a lower social strata. And it was like, yeah, you know,
here's these you know, hillbillies and you know, their retarded kids got lost,
and you know, you know, it's just you know, who cares,
which is absolutely the wrong thing to say and the wrong way to treat
people. And you know, I think that, Uh I remember listening to
it, and I'm like, I could see how that I could see the
Sheriff's department blowing them off, you know, and just kind of disregarding Like
you said, Hey, there's cabins up there. You know, you need
to go search these cabins. There were four sets of footprints, you need
to look into this, and the experts, you know, just saying,
yeah, you don't know what you're doing. Just go home and wait for
a phone call. Yeah, it's like, if you find their vehicle there,
then would you not automatically assume that they're nearby? Like it doesn't really
make any sense to me. And that's another thing, is it seems like
a lot of these cases that the police, given certain circumstances, inadvertently botched
the investigation. Yeah, the reasons for that can be. There could be
many separate reasons for that. I mean, there could be all kinds of
different things going on, but it seems like there's normally a police botching the
investigation. There's some sort of weather anomaly, but common sense would tell you
that if you were how many miles was that mountain outside of town was like
forty miles somewhere around in that vicinity outside of town, and that's like literally
the only place that you could be. So if you find the car out
there, you would assume that they are out there. Yeah. Yeah,
it's you know, I've took a course in man tracking, you know,
how to track people, you know, based on the tracks and how they
move through the woods and all that. And one of the basic things that
you always start with is what's called last known point l KP. Where did
you see this person last? And that's where you start, and then you
start fanning out from there. Uh. And it was just, uh,
it was just a just a real what we used to call in the military
a Charlie foxtrot, which is a cluster f dot dot dot H. And
it's it's like they didn't want to find them, you know, it's very
odd. It's like they just did not really have any interest, you in
finding these individuals. And which is odd because I had a very I have
a very good friend who recently passed away that worked back country search and rescue
in California at that time, and they had the resources available, you know,
they had back country experts, subject matter experts with backcountry trained dogs that
could track, and you know, they never seemed to bring these really massive
sources to bear on this particular case. And the dogs could have sniffed that
car and got picked up the sin of each one of those boys and led
them right to them, probably probably could have led them directly to the cabin
where well, I mean, it seems like whenever they first got there and
they first found the car, all the boys were alive at that time when
they got there. That's what it kind of seems like. And definitely the
kid, the boy that was at the cabin, I mean, we're calling
them boys. They weren't actually boys. They were they were twenties. There
were men, but especially the boy, the man that was in the cabin
was definitely alive during that time. Yeah, yeah, it was. Uh
so is that you know what you have to wonder? And you know,
I would love to do this, and I know the records don't exist,
and quite frankly, I don't have the time to dig dig too deep down
into it, but I would love to go back if the records exist,
which it's kind of questionable if they do. Is is this an isolated incident.
Is this a one off? How many other missing individuals? Uh?
We're never found or were found months later in that same area, you know,
because you can remember, this was back before the twenty four hour news
cycle, and a person going missing might have you know, one day,
two days in the newspaper, maybe picked up on the local TV media,
maybe not. And if they're not found, that's it. There's no web
page dedicated to finding this person. There's no groups of Internet sluice, you
know, constantly reviewing the case. It's one and done. So you know,
how many other cases, you know, do you have in that area?
And is there a pattern you can you establish clusters? You know,
kind of like you know we've done here in the twenty first century of missing
persons cases. You know, I would love, you know, if anybody's
ever done that kind of data. I would love our research. I'd love
to see the data on you know, that area of California. So looking
into this because I have my own theory on what actually happened through you know,
watching people talk about it and listening to the documentaries and everything on it.
What's your best educated guests and opinion as to what happened to them.
You're muted. I think, Trey, sorry about that. My PC wasn't
wasn't co operating. You know, my best theory, my best and it's
a guess. You know, it's a guess. Is I think they went
up there and they their car got stuck. We know that. Where it
starts getting very confusing is why did five healthy young men athletes, why were
they not able to push that car out of the snow bank? From what
I remember is it was not severely stuck. It wasn't hanging over ravine,
There wasn't bottom bout. It just ran up into a snowbank, couldn't go
any further and then couldn't back out easy that four of them could have gotten
and pushed it out and turned around and gone back down the mountain. So,
you know, there's a lot of questions. You know, does the
diminished you know, mental capacity of these young men. Did it not allow
them to do logical linear thinking, you know and problem solving? You know?
Did they panic? I think the answer to that probably would be yes,
they probably panicked when they got stuck. Uh. I think at least
three of them set out from the vehicle. Now, how the one individual
got miles and miles and miles away into the cabin, possibly with a second
one of the group is beyond me. I don't know how that happened.
And of course the fifth one, if I recall, has never been found.
So you know Ockham's razor is they they got stuck. They didn't have
the problem solving skills to get unstuck. They panicked. And if I remember,
they there was a theory that one of the boys had a friend in
that area, and they think that they might have been driving up a road
to go see that friend and got lost, and they might have thought they
were very close to that individual's cabin and went out to find it instead of
always staying with the vehicle, which is a much better option. Ah.
Why you know they didn't contact the vehicle that was behind him, you know,
when it drove up, if I'm remembering the timeline correct. Ah.
And does their uh, their mental capacity really even come to play, you
know, or is it something more sinister? You know? Was it?
You know that I don't remember very detailed autopsies being done on the remains,
you know, I don't remember if anybody really looked at foul play. And
then you know, we can take that bold step. And I'm not saying
this is the reason, but you know, I've been doing this stuff long
enough to know that we've got to consider the X factor. You know,
did something truly remarkable and unexplainable happened to these young men that quite frankly,
we may never know, you know, did something like the diabolol pass you
know happened to them? You know, were their bodies scanned for you know,
radiation? You know what kind of injuries happened to the bodies? Now,
the remains, if I recall, were scattered by uh you know,
animal uh scavenging and predator. But you know, I just don't think that
a lot of effort was really put into finding out what happened, and unfortunately
that opportunity is long gone. Well it's interesting because, I mean, the
theory of the the the conspiracy stuff really starts with the gentleman being wrapped in
all the sheets and blankets at the cabin and having access to food, having
access to heaters, and then not using it. Now, the family explains
that he didn't eat the food, he didn't turn on the heater because he
felt that that would have been stealing from other people, and that wasn't what
he did. He wasn't going to eat food that wasn't his, he wasn't
going to use appliances and things that you know, wasn't his. I think
the really big question here is was the guy that was never found? I
think his name was Gary Dale Mathis? Was he even there? Did he
even make it up to the point did they even? Did they even?
Was he even? Did he even get up to the freaking mountain with them?
Right? That's the that's the whole thing, and that's the whole conundrum
of this thing, because I don't I really don't think that he did.
I don't think he made it that far. There's a theory that he was
he because they left the basketball game early. Apparently they got kicked out of
the basketball game for being unruly or getting into an argument or getting into a
fight with somebody else, So they left the basketball game early. And there's
a theory that on the bridge on the way up to the mountain, they
were confronted by another group of men or another group of boys, and that
other group of men killed Mathis and throwed them off At the bridge. There
were so much fear surrounding the boys that they just went up the mountain.
You know, they didn't want to come back down because they're afraid that they
were going to get you know, also killed, So they went up there
and in fear. But I have an alternative theory. And this isn't anything
you know, bad about the families. This isn't me saying anything bad about
the families or tarnishing anybody's memory. But it may be possible because the boys
really didn't like this Mathis guy. They feared him. They thought that maybe
he was he was way, he was super aggressive. He was actually in
the military and he was being treated for He got a honorable it was either
honorable or a dishonorable discharge for anger issues and like flying off the wall and
stuff like that. He was on like medication, and they kind of didn't
really want him to be a part of the group. I think that it
may be possible that something happened between this Mathos guy and the other four boys,
and the other four boys might have been might have had to act and
do something against him, right, and that's why he wasn't there. That's
why he didn't make it up to the mountain, and they went up there
in fear because what they had just done, they knew that it was kind
of you know, over for them, and they didn't want to, you
know, come down and face the consequences. I don't know, that's just
kind of my theory on it. Yeah, that's the theory. Now you're
you're you're tickling my gray sales. And I'm starting to remember more now.
Mathis had been discharged from the military, not because of you know, de
mintous diminished mental capacity, but rather for severe psychological issues. And he was
medicated, and he was a very ill fit for that group, and he
you know, kind of became the de facto leader just through force of will,
you know, because he was smarter than the other guys. You know,
he was able to solve problems, he was able to think, but
he was horribly unstable, especially when he was not taking his medication. And
the only reason these boys knew knew him was because they all played on the
same basketball team, you know, in the in the league. Had mentioned
earlier, and you know, I always wondered, did did Mathis have something
to do with the boys? And he set off on his own, you
know, to get away from you know what he had just done. But
then again that doesn't doesn't really fit the pattern though, because you know,
their bodies were so widely dispersed. You know, if you're going to you
know, kill somebody, you know, maybe one or two gets away,
but you know, everybody scatters. You know, maybe they were scared of
him and they all went and uh, you know died later from exposure or
starvation or whatever. So I don't think that there was, you know,
a thorough investigation. I never heard where the police really interviewed, you know,
the families using that particular you know, did everybody get along? Did
you ever hear you know, did did you know one of the individuals ever
threaten somebody else? Did he ever threaten the group? You know, did
anybody hear anything? I think it was just like, you know, these
these men went up into the woods, you know, you know, they
weren't the productive citizens. You know that, you know, we'd like to
see back in the seventies, you know, the society you know, value
back then. And it's like, well, you know, too bad,
you know, we'll move on to something else. And I think there's something
else that's really interesting, just going off of all this from memory, But
I ncent sure that the school that they went to had like Monarch in the
tide of the school if I'm not mistaken, like and then you think,
oh well Monarch mk Ultra mind Control. I do not recall the name of
the school, but that doesn't mean that's not the case. I just I
just don't recall. I could be mistaken, I could be wrong. I
don't have to refresh my memory on it, but I think you had something
has some kind of the title Monarch in it Monarch's School for I don't know,
let me try and look it up. But this is a very interesting
case for people that aren't aware of it. And there's recently a episode of
a documentary that came out on Netflix that has an episode that investigates this case
as well. Oh okay, definitely, yeah. I'm glad to see that
it's starting to get a little more interest now. You know, it was
kind of pushed back in the and the annals of history, and nobody really
thought about it until I think some of the strange disappearances, you know in
America's forest lands started being looked at, started to be looked at, you
know, a little bit more in depth. And I think the Yuba County
five has popped back up on the radar. Like I said before, I
kind of got turned onto it. Uh, you know, I picked it
up somewhere in research and found a really good podcast, you know, like
you know, a multi episode podcast that was excellent, and I will definitely
check out that episode. Uh. And you know, maybe now the Internet
Solutions, you know, will be energized and can start pulling some of this
old data if it still exists, and hopefully come up with a solution or
at least a really solid workable theory. There is a Monarch school, education
Opportunity and transformation, but I am I'm pretty sure the Monarch was the title
of the mentally it was like Monarch School for mentally challenged students in Yuba City
or something, but I'm not finding it on the Wikipedia page for the Yuba
County five. It doesn't really talk a lot about their upbringing or a lot
of what they were doing. But I found that interesting and I'm pretty sure
that that is the case. But I have to get back to people on
that. So there's a lot of things that I've noticed with a lot of
these strange cases and these strange disappearances. One is the police pretty much botching
the investigation. Two is another like there's always a weather event. Three it
seems like, especially when it comes to a lot of the children that has
gone missing in national parks and forestry areas, have some sort of mental disability.
It's it's really strange. Yeah, you know. And one can you
know you easily say, well, you know, these these folks got confused
or they got lost, and you know, they didn't think through the problem
and just made it worse by you know, running off in a direction perhaps
away from rescuers, not staying put, you know, being scared, you
know, not you know, reaching out to rescuers when they hear them.
But you know, there's always you know, these odd outliers, you know,
these very strange you know, things that just don't fit. You know.
I'm thinking about the famous case and I can't remember the young young boy's
name right now in the Smoky mountains where you know, he became lost and
and then the army came in, which you know, the US military just
doesn't do missing persons cases. That's that's not in their charter. But you
know, the US military, and especially some special Forces units came in to
look for him. So you know, you have to wonder, and you
know, I'm not going to get all you know, conspiracy now, but
you have to wonder if certain areas aren't known to be uh you know,
vortexas and I mean vortex in a way that it just people just just disappear,
you know, they're just gone. And when somebody goes missing in these
particular areas, uh, it takes uh, it takes a bit of interest,
generates a bit of interest from you know, all the various authorities starting
from local all the way up to federal. But you know, in the
Yuba County case, it just doesn't didn't seem to be the case at all.
It's almost you know, like you and I talked about before, it
just there wasn't a lot of effort there. So you know, I'm hoping
that, you know, maybe now that this case is getting more and more
interest, that uh, you know, maybe some really exciting you know,
new data or evidence will pop up or maybe even some new theories and hopefully,
you know, an answer. I can't find the school, but I
found that the basketball team was named the Gateway, the Gateway Gators, which
is another interesting term. You at the Gateway project by Robert Monroe. Right,
Yeah, so I went to Contact in the Desert. Not to switch
topics. We can always come back to this, but I went to Contact
in the Desert this year and I met a few of your team members from
the Meadow and listening to a lot of people's the presentations, it's interesting because
it seems like the narrative of uphology is kind of shifting. It's turning into
AI driven topics. It is turning into usos, is turning into cryptoterrestrials.
I mean, we just had that. I don't know if you've read that
article that came out by the Harvard Scientist that says that more than likely it's
you know, cryptoterrestrial, that it's entities for an advanced civilization that's always been
here. And I thought it was interesting all of the different kind of AI
talk and the different kind of AI speculations. A lot of people were speculating
that maybe the extra trestial phenomenon is an AI artificial intelligence. Have you thought
about that at all? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely. You know, let's
say, you know, here we are in twenty twenty four and let's jump
forward fifty years. Okay, I think it's a reasonable assumption that AI might
not be sentient, but it will be extremely advanced. You know, in
the next fifty years, I think that's you know, in twenty seventy five
or twenty seventy four, I think that's you know, that that's a given
as our technology and science increases exponentially. So here we are fifty years into
the future, and we have the capability to send craft out or probes to
various worlds for exploration. How would we design a probe. Well, we
wouldn't want that probe to have to continuously receive instructions from Earth. We would
want it to be able to solve problems on its own. Hence it would
most likely be AI power. It would have an artificial intelligence, maybe even
quasi or totally sentient that could solve problems. So we would send that probe
out if we wanted to look at it from a from the aspect of a
stellar anthropologist, okay, or exo anthropology, we would try to make the
probes or certain parts of that probe look as similar as they could to the
life form on the planet. Think about when zoologists will try to lead a
flock of geese to another reason, they'll create an ultra light that looks like
a goose or you know, they will create, you know, other stuff
to mimic the species in which they're studying. So if I had the capability
of making you know, robots or synthetics with an AI aspect to it that
looked very similar to the species that I'm studying, I would send them out
among the species, gathering data, interacting, learning how to communicate. And
at the beginning that communication would be very strange. Now where have we heard
instances of very odd looking humanoid beings that seem to take place in around UFO
sightings that look odd and their communication is very very awkward, you know,
very you know, stunted. What do we call those? We call those
men in black. And as you know, the AI learns how to communicate,
learns the unique nuances of the civilization that they're studying, it will be
able to communicate better and more importantly, in a more fluid and natural manner.
That's how I would do it, you know, if I was fifty
seventy five years in the future and have that technology. So is it reasonable
to assume that either a extraterrestrial IE existing in this three dimensional universe? There
exists a technology and a civilization that might be studying us, or is it
possible that there's an extra dimensional civilization and intelligence that has brought their probes down
into our dimension, into the third dimension, to likewise study us and perhaps
communicate with us and eventually get to a point of open and honest two way
communications. So, you know, when you start looking at it from you
know, that perspective, you know, maybe from you know, the perspective
of an anthropologist, you know, or a sociologist, you know, from
the exofield exosociology, exo anthropology, it makes sense, you know that that's
how you would approach this particular conundrum would be with artificial life forms that,
you know, using our technology our understanding of what life is might be indistinguishable
from actual living beings, but in fact they're artificial and they operate off of
an extremely advanced quantum AI. Yeah, then that brings in the question too.
It's like, well, if there are humanoid types of cyborgs and that's
the direction that we're kind of being pushed into, is this androgynous human AI
cyborg type of reality, then you get into the question of morality and ethics,
right, you know, what are these humanoid robots considered? Are they
considered human? And then you get into well what does it what does it
mean to be a human Because this skin suit could technically be a cyborg,
an organic cyborg, right, we could already be organic cyborg. So just
because the shell is different doesn't mean that the consciousness is different. If you
could put a human consciousness inside of a completely created cyborg, would you still
not be considered human? Well, that's a great question. I'm a I'm
a big fan of you know, science fiction literature. You know, one
of my favorite authors, of course is Frank Herbert, who wrote the Dune
series and then his son, uh, you know, continued the series.
And in the pre Dune books there are a race of beings called Cymes,
and basically it's humans that decided to have their their brains encased in giant,
giant mechanical bodies. And in the series they're very much considered human now,
albeit with mechanical bodies, but they still had the same wants, desires,
you know, goodness and evilness of human beings. And you hit an interesting
point, it's what is human? You know, and uh, the the
ethics of robotics, you know, goes all the way back to you know,
really when it started to become looked at and you know kind of a
you know, cheesy way, you know, Isaac Gasmanov, you know,
wrote the Robot trilogy. You know, what do we do? You know,
are these creatures you know, worthy of you know rights, albeit not
human rights, but do they have rights? How should we treat them?
Where do they fit into our society? And do they have the you know,
in aim, god given right to exist and have self determination? So,
you know, AI, I'm kind of on a see saw some some
days I'm kind of excited about it because I think it will make certain aspects
of day to day life a lot easier then other times. You know,
I kind of, you know, get into the gloom and doom you know
of you know, apocalyptic sci fi. You know, like with sky Net,
I get kind of worried about it because the human intellect reaches a point
critical saturation. You know, a human can being can only be so smart,
not AI. AI can quickly surpass our intellect and if that mechanical soon
to be quantum intellect operating off of quantum computers gets to the point of parody
with human intellect and then surpasses it. Then human beings become inferior. You
know, it's almost like when Western scientists go into a very primitive tribe,
the way that they look at them as inferior. You know, back in
the eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds, you know, will AI look at
us as inferior, and so well, AI took take an a a custodial
perspective, you know, these poor creatures, these human beings, you know,
which can you know, on a really really exception day can crank out
somebody with an IQ of about two hundred. I need to take care of
them? Or are they a threat? My god? Look at what they've
done to the planet, and they need to be either eradicated drastically or eliminated
through attrition, through mass sterilization, manipulation of our food and water sources where
we can no longer produce, where we eventually die out. And then they
become the AI becomes the new human, They become the earthlings and human beings
Homo sapien sapiens are no longer in the picture. So you know, I
kind of you know, seesaw back and forth on that. You know,
I'd love to have something that could figure out when it's time to you know,
clean my house and do it for me and you know, mow my
yards. I don't have to mess with it. But you know, what's
the trade off? What's the cost? And then you think, well,
what would be the benefit in doing that? What would be the benefit for
the robots and the cyborgs to take over the entire or planet? Like,
it doesn't really make too much sense when you think of it, like logically,
like what would be the motivation to do that? And of course there's
theories and people say, oh, well, they want to they want to
take over the world because that's just they see humans as unfit uh custodians of
the planet and they want to you know, wipe us out. But then
if you get back to the real original source of this, what is the
real reason that we would want to create these human cyborgs in the first place?
And I think possibly it was first created for intelligence purposes and I on,
you can disagree, you can combat me however you want to combat me.
But I think that they have had some form of human cybernetic robots,
robots that look almost identical to humans for a very long time, and they've
used those as spies and military assets and to collect information and collect data.
I mean, that's what an AI robot would really do. And then now
they're getting to the point where it's kind of an open source thing, where
it's going to be, you know, kind of everywhere. It was a
dual, dual purpose, one for the military, one for the public.
And whenever you look at the public side of it, what would be the
thing that would be important for these things? Right? It would be for
immortality. It's like what we were talking about with, you know, being
able to transplant your brain into another shell, another human and then you'd be
able to live forever. And that's kind of been a common trope through back
through you know a lot of these ancient Sumerian cultures there were apparently able to
do this organically. They were able to just kind of transfer their consciousness into
another human being shell. And then it gets into well, extraterrestrials really do
exist. Maybe they can't travel here, maybe they can only consciously travel here.
So maybe we create these cyborgs or some sort of cloned artificial intelligence skin
suit, and then they transfer their consciousness from another planet onto our planet and
that gives them the ability to walk around exactly. And that's that's no different
than starting off with a very crude, scientific piece of equipment called a waldo,
which was used in very hazardous like research with radiation where you've probably seen
them in movies where they have the poles that come down they put their hands
in it, and then the poles come down behind the clean room and pick
things up, called a walda, and that is a way of taking the
human tactile sensation transferring it through machinery into tactile movements on the other side of
the leaded glass to move you isotopes and things like that. Now we're getting
into you know, very very advanced gaming. Okay, that's you know,
something that we're seeing a lot of. The next step is actual haptic suits
that you put on where it mimics you know that the human you know,
experience of being in an artificial situation. So yes, you know, human
beings in this meat suit, we're fragile, and it's it's a logical assumption
that other beings likewise are fragile and they cannot take you know, near light
speed or relativistic speeds of travel through the universe. They you know, they
can't take extreme changes in heat, are cold, they might not be able
to breathe their atmosphere. So projecting the consciousness, and I'm going to look
at it from a human perspective, projecting the human consciousness through technology onto a
h an alien world or an alien civilization or whatever makes sense. So you
turned the page, look at the other side of the coin. Why would
that not be logical for another uh, you know race or you know,
group of sentient intelligent beings with that technology. It's you know, it makes
perfect sense. You know. The uh you know, the Mars Rover really
is nothing more than a way of projecting the human experience onto another planet using
the video, using the robotic arms you know. Uh. Now this it's
not powered by AI, but we're able to take our human intelligence, project
it out to that piece of equipment by uh our radio control, you know,
by communications with it, making it do our will we remain safely here
on Earth. So it's you know, it's not far fetched at all.
Yeah, I really don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility.
I mean, they already kind of showed this in a episode of the Newest
season of Black Mirror with Paul, the guy from Breaking Bad, not Brian
Cranston, but the other guy, Paul. I can't think of his name
right now. His first name is Paul, but anyway, he was in
an episode of the newest season of Black Mirror where him and one other person
was basically on a one way trip to another planet, like they weren't coming
back, but in order to also be here, they had a cybernetic human
AI skin suit that looked exactly like him, and whenever they would sleep on
the ship, they would come back here and their consciousness would be inside of
the cyborg robot and they would be able to take care of their family and
do everything while Yeah, I mean you know the movie, uh you know
Avatar, you know, where people were able to go into a suspended state
and then control their avatars and you walk around on a I can't remember the
name of the planet, but uh, you know, and and fight the
evil capitalist and all of that. Uh, you know, it's kind of
the same thing. Uh, And I you know, I kind of wonder
you are we close to that? You know? And then what are the
societal benefits of that? And I think about, you know, as I
get older. Uh is you know, am I going to be physically incapacitated
and will be lonely? You know, would a cybernetic companion help ease my
uh you know, my psyche in the later years. And so I see
the potential for a lot of good, you know, and a lot of
lonely depressed people having the companionship that maybe they've longed for their whole lives,
you know, coming from an artificial intelligence, you know, and an artificial
being you know, a robot or synthetic or whatever. So you know,
it's it's it's one of those double edged swords that you know. It contains
the possibility for very, very great and wonderful things, and it also contains
a possibility for great evil, much like you know when you know vision you
know, was first discovered, you know, at the University of Chicago,
you know, with the Chicago Pile and nuclear power was discovered, and it
was discovered that it could be controlled. You know, it could be used
for you know, much good like nuclear power treating cancer, things like that,
or it could be used to destroy hundreds of thousand people's people in a
blinding flash. So you know, the future, as it always has is
right there before us, and we route we decide to take. Is anybody's
guess. Yeah, I think people are starting to get more more and more
worried about it. And like I was talking about recently, it's like,
well, what happens when? Because right now, the AI is kind of
not so advanced. I mean, it's an advance and it's texting capacity like
if you're using like chat, GBT or whatever like that, but it's not
the public really doesn't have the ability yet to create solid videos and solid AI
generated images. I mean some people can because some people have access to the
programs that do that, but the general public really doesn't yet. You have
to kind of prompt it. Now, what happens whenever AI is essentially able
to to create a bunch of different social media profiles on its own, right
then well, but then what happens if it can then create artificial pictures,
artificial videos and just post them without any prompts, without any human interaction,
without having to tallet make me a photo of you know, a rabbit and
a hat in space. You know what happens when it just automatically does it,
and it's automatically able to post wherever whenever and however at all times.
And that gets to an interesting point, and let me backtrack a little bit.
You know, you talk about chat GBT, you know, and it's
limitations is we don't know what is on the other side of the air gap
on the servers in DARPA. From the AI perspective, we don't know what
they have that's air gap from the rest of the world on their systems.
It's probably mind blowing, I would imagine, because they're looking at AI as
a defensive tool that you can send out these swarm bots that can think independently
and we don't need pilots, we don't need tank drivers, we don't need
gunners. So you know that that puts it in a different perspective. But
you know, like you're talking about is how do we learn our set to
morals as human beings? You know, there's one theory that morals that you
know, a creator gives us a set of morals that we intrinsically know what's
good and bad. That's one theory. The other theory is that it comes
from our environment and as how we grow up and how the moral influences of
those around us in the society in which we you know, we grow up
in imprints on us, a moral set of code. So now you have
AI, and you know, I'm not going to get political here, but
I'm thinking about the election that's coming up in November. There are people with
very strong opinions on both sides. There are people that think Candidate A is
great, Candidate B is evil. Then you switch in and you've got people
that think canadate B is great and Candidate A is evil. Why do they
think that? You know? Why? You know, where does that come
from? Probably from their upbringing and the type of people they surround themselves in
the society in which they live. So you have an AI of incredible intelligence
and almost infinite resources that takes the determination that Candidate X is evil and anything
and everything that can be done to stop this candidate from getting elected needs to
be done. And then, like you talked about, it start generating the
deep fakes. It starts setting up multiple social media accounts, it starts,
you know, learning how to do information warfare and psyops, and it actually
manipulates us into doing whatever it wants based on its own moral compass, which
may or may not align with the moral compass of human beings. I find
that horrifying, you know, as a human being with free will. And
I don't think we're too far from that. I think it's you know,
we're right on the cusp of that. And you know, now we have
state actors, you know, manipulating AI to generate you know, body accounts,
you know, and try to manipulate elections, and you generate deep fakes
and you know all of this stuff. But what if the genie ever gets
out of the bottle and the AI decides to start doing that on its own,
who controls you know, who's the master? Then? You know,
once the genies out of the bottle, is the wizard the master or is
the genie? Yes? And I think that that we're headed into that direction
rapidly, very quickly. And I think that's a lot of people's fear,
and that's how it starts. I mean, we've we all know about bots
and like bought farms and it's always continuously blamed on Russia and Russia bought farms
and like all that. Well that's just AI. Do you really think that
some like a group of people are taking the time to make thousands and thousands
and thousands of social media accounts. No, they don't. They just put
it into an AI system. AI system creates all the accounts for them.
Yeah, and they magically have the same outlook on Well, I'm sure they
create the chaos. They take half of them to create and to you know,
exacerbate the right, and then the other half of them to create and
exacerbate the left. That's really what you want, is to create chaos and
confusion. Yeah, yeah, that's actually that's a tactic from the Cold War.
It was developed by you know, some of the CIA funded what they
called stay behind armies, which were injected into the Intelligent services of various NATO
countries. Is back during the seventies and eighties, the Italian Intelligent Services created
a nucleus of operatives that would do false flag attacks against the Italian government and
blame it on the Red Brigade, you know, the Brigade russ And they
were doing what they called a strategy of tension. And the idea was that
they created tension in a society by these false flag terrorist attacks. People were
on edge and they could manipulate that fear and to making sure that the Italian
population was always pro West and not pro communists. You know, not pro
Soviet, and they did that by creating strife, tension, confusion, fear,
anger, and resentment. Okay, so turn the page. You know,
we're not quite doing that now, you know with uh, you know,
terrorist attacks. But are we being manipulated as a culture, you know,
to generate that same feeling of dread, fear, anxiety, resentment,
hate, anger to meet the ends of us some other force that is trying
to guide us in our way of thinking, to affect the outcome of the
elections. You know, that's little that's little things. Is it trying to
guide us to a much bigger you know goal? Uh? You know,
as our culture, in our society, do you think that a utopian society
is possible? Yeah, it's called it. It's called heaven. No,
you know here on earth? No? I you know, I don't know.
Uh. I think that you can have a group of people, ah
that have a common goal and if they can be left alone, I think
that they can create maybe not a total utopia, but something very similar.
You know, there are people in small towns all over the world that live
in relative obscurity, that only interact with the greater society when they need to
have their basic needs met, you know, when they need to go pay
their water bill or need to go to the grocery store and buy you know,
corny macob or you know can of cornby Pash or whatever. And it's
very much an existential thing, is you know, as these communities you decide
to find happiness within themselves. Don't let other people to find what happiness is.
Happiness is only if this candidate wins. Their happiness is only if you
have this world view. It's all within, you know. And since I've
retired and I've been able to kind of disconnect from some of that stuff.
You know, part of my job involved, you know, always monitoring you
know, international news and watching these things. And now that I've kind of
disconnected, I find myself a lot happier. So utopia is what you make
of it. You know, the utopia is in you. It doesn't come
from the outside. And you know, in my simple life, you know,
probably the biggest thing today besides being on your show is I had a
Paddy Milt from water Burger, you know, and I took great joy in
that because that makes me happy. And that's something that I find the simple
things. It's the very simple things you know, and you don't realize that
simple things contain such huge, you know, nuggets of joy that are disproportionate
to its size until they've been taken away, until you've been somewhere where you
don't have freedom of choice, where you're somewhere where you don't have the freedom
of privacy, you don't have relative safety, you don't have the sense of
self determination. And when you get those things back, it's like you found
a gold mine. To me, it almost seems like that even if everything
were to be solved. This isn't me being cynical. I'm just looking at
it with you know, critical thinking, in common sense. Even if everything
were to be solved, let's say we solved starvation, we solved the endless
war problem, we solved homelessness, everyone was taken care of. Someone's going
to get bored, someone's going to create chaos, someone's going to do something
stupid, Someone's going to screw it up for everyone. Yeah, that's just
that's just humans being humans. And the Golden Age doesn't last forever. I
mean, if it does, and you're always going to have miscreants, you
know, that's and you know, human beings have evil. You know in
them and selfishness. Uh. And you know, it's always been a big
question what do we do with these people? Ah. My belief is they
should be removed from society if they cannot live in society and respect the rights,
you know, well beings of others, and they need to be removed
from society. I am you know, I'm not pro death penalty, but
they need to be put somewhere where they can't damage society. Uh. And
be that a prison, you know, you know, a colony or whatever.
Uh. You know, that's a choice they make. And I think,
you know, like I said, I think we all know what's right
and wrong unless you're seriously mental mentally ill, and then those people are ill
and should be treated medically. But you know, if you decide to take
the dark path, then you should be removed from the people that are seeking
the path of light. And uh, you know everybody you know kind of
would understand that. And I think, you know, quick decisive action,
uh, you know, to you know, to this this this ends,
I think we would be beneficial. Uh. I think part of the problem
we have right now is we don't know what to do with you know,
miscreen you know, we're confused on perhaps what's the right course of action,
you know, and there's a lot of different opinions on that, you know,
incarceration, you know, rehabilitation, you know, et cetera, et
cetera, and uh, you know that utopia you know, you know doesn't
exist without a little darkness, you know, and that's something that everybody has
to come to a consensus on how to how to deal with it. What
I've seen and I can look back on, you know, my life,
our problems always seem to change based upon our environment. See a lot of
people think, well, if I just have all the money in the world,
then my problems are going to go away. And know, your problems
aren't going to go away. It's just going to be a new set of
problems, a different set of problems. So even if we were to get
this utopian society and this everything is perfect, everyone has cared for, everyone
is treated the way that they should be, somebody is going to find something
wrong with something. I've seen this happen, you know several times. I've
you know, people that had really big problems. They solve those problems,
They solve those issues. Let's just take this for an example, like a
homeless person finally gets a home. He's like, okay, great, I
got a roof over my head. Everything's great. Well, it's only great
for a certain period of time because you were used to not having a home,
and eventually it's going to be, oh, well, I don't like
my roommates. My roommates are really annoying me. Well, just a year
ago, you were grateful to have a home, you know, you know,
you get what I'm saying here, like, yes, yeah, there's
You create the big problems, turn in the smaller problems, but you turn
the smaller problems into greater problems because those are the only problems that you can
focus on. Yeah, those are the only problems that you have. And
you know, the you know, my opinion, the antidote to that is
communications and love. You know, is you talk to people that you value
and respect and say, hey, you know, I've got this feeling of
resentment, you know, and it's just where it's really you know, impacting
you know, me living the happiest life I can be. What do you
think? And sometimes you know, having a either a mentor or a confidant
is a huge advantage. And I always tell people you know that are running
through bumps in life. You know, look at somebody whose life seems to
be put together. Now, when you peel it back, you're going to
find out they have problems. But if they've made a lifetime of good decisions,
you know, be it financially, interpersonally, you know, with vocationally,
et cetera. And you come to a crossroad in your own life,
and maybe you have a history of not making good decisions, go to that
person and say, hey, I've got a chance to take a new job.
I have a choice of going on Route A or Route B. What
do you think? And usually people that have made a lifetime of positive decisions
will point you in the right direction. Now, the trick is being able
to swallow your own pride, in your own ego and say, wow,
you know that sounds like a really good idea. I will take your advice.
And it's that communication, and that communication being done with love and respect,
I think solves a lot of you know, a lot of problems.
Most of the problems that we have, if you trace it down to the
root calls it's communication. We don't do a very good job of communicating,
and we don't communicate from a good place. We communicate from a place of
greed or resentment, and I'm just as guilty as everybody else, okay,
you know, from that aspect is you know, I'm a prideful, greedy,
self centered human being just like everybody else. But I try not to
be, you know. And I think if everybody just put a little tiny,
you know, little tiny sliver of effort into it, I think maybe
this utopia, you know, is within our graph. And it doesn't mean
everybody will have flying cars and you know, and Rosie the made from the
Jetsons, but I think they'll be happy because, like I said, happiness
comes from within, not from without. Right. The best that we can
do is continue to be honorable in our actions and speak with integrity and do
things that you know, lead by example. It's just difficult when it seems
like most people feel that the top of the pyramid is ah is not that
you know, and then you have the trickle down effect onto every aspect of
our everyday reality. So if the top of the pyramid isn't being forthcoming with
information, if they're corrupt at the top up, which many people believe that
they are, then that corruptness trickles down into every other sector of society,
like for example, like the the the police, right, and then of
course the police is low down on the pyramid, right. But people inadvertently
lie to the police because the police trick them into confessing, right, And
they think, oh well, if I tell them the truth, then they
they're going to lock me up. And they do. Right. They say,
oh well, i'll help you if you just tell me the truth,
I'll get you off of If you just be honest with me, then then
I'll help you out. But they don't. They never do, and that
increases this this idea to constantly lie and distrust, right. And it all
comes from like I said, that communication is and that the technique you call
it is an interview technique, call the read technique. People can look it
up. And you know, we've all been told, you know, don't
make a statement, you know, exercise your right of silence. And it's
it's manipulative communication. It's poor communications, it's evil communications to manipulate a person
into an outcome. It's not pure and good communication. So, like I
said, it all comes down to communications and the quality of that communication.
But there's a very interesting artic cloud read several years ago called the Saint Benedict
Solution, and it talks about the monk Saint Benedict who basically cut himself off
from society and said, you know what, I'm just going to live here
in my I can't remember if he lived in a cave or whatever, and
I'm just going to focus on being the best person I can now. Albeit,
he was a Christian Catholic monk, so he was looking king at being
the best person through that perspective, through prayer, meditation and trying to do
good, you know, to the people that he did encounter. But he
just didn't worry about the stuff outside of him. And if you really think
about it, how much does that stuff really impact you? You know,
I am lucky enough that I have, you know, enough funds that come
in to meet my basic needs, you know, with that or my wife.
So if candidate A or B gets elected, how does that really affect
me? Really? How does it affect me? Down here at grassroots level?
And for probably eighty to eighty five, maybe even ninety percent of it,
it doesn't only if I let it, Only if I let the aggravation
and the discontent get into my soul. And start driving me to decisions that
aren't necessarily my own. And that goes back to what I was talking about
information operations and psychological operation. It's manipulating the thought processes of a target or
a target audience, and don't be that target. And the only way you
can be that target is if you choose to, and if you choose not
to, things look a whole lot better. Absolutely, I agree one hundred
percent, and thank you for coming on. Really appreciate your time this evening.
Always a wonderful conversation with you. And could you let people Are you
writing a new book? I am about ten chapters into it. Basically it's
a continuation of our, uh you know, our experiences out at the Meadow.
So what I'm gonna do is look at some other high places of high
strangeness that have some similar things going on to it, and talk about our
expeditions and adventures and then get into maybe some revelations that, you know,
some things that maybe people you know aren't aware of and had considered, uh
you know, from you know, the things that actually happened as you met
some of our team members at Contact in the desert, you know that are
helping us with that. So working on that. Got a new website up,
I Trey Hudson research dot com linked to my current book. So,
uh, you know, I'm just busy, busy, busy, you know.
I've got some other media projects, uh you know, in the works.
I just had a phone call from a producer while we were discussing this,
So a lot going on, A lot going on. Are they finally
going to put together your your documentary with the footage from the meadow? Yes?
Yes, we hope to start filming in November. So I am working
with If I would give you a name, which I'm not going to publicly,
but uh, you know, you would recognize the name. And this
production company does very good documentaries. So I was actually talking to the executive
producer while I was in uh I think I was actually at the airport in
Jordan last week. We were texting back and forth. So it was a
lot of big things. So I hope that you know, some stuff comes
out that will you know, we're really uh you know, maybe at the
most it will enlighten people or at the very least will entertain them. Well,
I'm glad that finally got Maybe you've been you've been trying to do that
for a while now, so I'm excited to see that, and I'm excited
to actually show some of the footage and some of the things that you've captured
on the show after the documentary comes out, finally we'll be able to do
that. I've been wanting to do that for a long time now, but
I understand why you're keeping the footage close to your vest because it is very
convincing evidence. It's probably some of the most convincing evidence that I've ever seen.
So I'm look forward to that documentary being come out, and I look
forward to your new book. Send me the link to your new website so
that I can put it in the description of this video. I have the
Amazon link down there to buy your book that you have out right now,
So send me the the link to the website and I'll get that up.
Sure. Absolutely cool, everyone else, Thanks for watching, thanks for listening.
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Tray stay with me, my friend