WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:25.399
Puts down South Sunny Gan touch down
Sideway Gas. So don't just lasts,

2
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:45.719
try tutors, typing tests, typing
us using Trader SkySat Onsta Stock in the

3
00:00:45.840 --> 00:01:59.120
Black Star, tapscot Side Leoche April. It's twenty fifth, twenty fifteen,

4
00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.359
the Ochile effect. As the bumper
tells you, I'm your host, Chuck

5
00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:07.919
o'helly. So we are live,
and tonight we are going to dismantle an

6
00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.280
interesting JFK myth. We're gonna actually
do part three of the JFK Mythology series

7
00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:17.680
on my show. And yes I
am continuing with this, but tonight we're

8
00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:22.759
going to focus on a singular myth
that seems to encompass a whole lot of

9
00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:28.199
other sub myths, if you will. So it's like dismantling, debunking,

10
00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:30.919
or demolishing the master myth. And
I'm gonna tell you a little bit of

11
00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.879
history as to why I give a
crap about this, and why it is

12
00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:38.280
that I'm not spending all my time
just focusing on the Warren Commission, which

13
00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:42.919
I could do, and I could
sit here just demolishing all of the official

14
00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:50.000
explanations regarding this situation. I could
do that that would be advantageous to me.

15
00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:52.960
But you know what, unfortunately,
I feel as though I have to

16
00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:58.840
clean up my own house, okay, regarding the conspiracy theorist side of things,

17
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.319
and I have to debunk a lot
of the garbage out there, because

18
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:07.400
every single time that I am engaged
in a conversation off the air regarding the

19
00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:12.960
JFK assassination, it continues to be
thrown at me all of this misdirection and

20
00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:17.599
nonsense that is out there. So
we waited for the third episode to begin

21
00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:23.960
to deconstruct for you live on the
air what we do refer to kind of

22
00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:28.960
privately as the Master Myth. Why
because as I said before, it completely

23
00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:38.039
rolls into it all whole plethora of
nonsense, easily debunked garbage that is out

24
00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:44.159
there. And of course I have
the return assistance of my wonderful panel.

25
00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.280
Plus we're going to have another interesting
guy join us in just a little bit.

26
00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:53.120
But that panel, of course includes
Carmine Sabastano from Minneapolis Media Group,

27
00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:58.560
also the guy who was working on
the book too. It is called Two

28
00:03:58.599 --> 00:04:02.080
Princes and A And of course there
is a website for that and everything else.

29
00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:04.599
And if you went to the Facebook
events page. You would know all

30
00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:09.919
about that because we provided plenty of
links and plenty of articles. So Carmine

31
00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:15.160
is on with me. How you
doing tonight, Carmine? Pretty good?

32
00:04:15.160 --> 00:04:18.519
How you doing, Chuck? Ah
sounding a hell of a lot better this

33
00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:24.720
time too. Thanks. Actually it's
only because he got a headset and everything

34
00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:27.399
else. So I think that you're
going to come across a whole lot better

35
00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:30.920
like that, brother, good,
I hope. So. Also, by

36
00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:35.519
the way, uh an administrator at
the Ocelli Effect Facebook page and also at

37
00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:41.759
the Ocelli Effect radio page for discussion
on Facebook as well, Thank you and

38
00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:47.399
chagrin of some yes sir, yes
sir. And in addition, of course,

39
00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:53.600
we have Trish Fleming and Zach Jendro
from They work at the Debunked Blog,

40
00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.680
but they do a lot of other
things and a lot of interesting articles.

41
00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:01.000
And these guys actually dig into real
and information, real evidence, real

42
00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:06.639
documentation on occasion, unlike those who
buy into the Judith very Baker story.

43
00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:15.240
Zach, Trish, how are you
guys tonight? Good? How you doing?

44
00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:21.920
Bit Chuck? Always a pleasure to
have you guys on so And at

45
00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:28.399
some point Glenn Weichland will join us
as well. I hope, I pronounced

46
00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:32.920
that correctly. So interesting guy,
very interesting guy, very reasonable guy who

47
00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:39.399
happened to study one of the pieces
the evolution of the Judith Fary Baker myth.

48
00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:42.879
You know, her whole thing of
having to seek political asylum in other

49
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.879
countries in order to avoid what the
oppressive US government that was now to silence

50
00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:53.759
her and all of the death threats
and things that were against her. She

51
00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:56.680
came back to sell the book.
Look, I tried to say it with

52
00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:00.959
a straight face. I just stood
bake. I couldn't make it. I

53
00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:03.800
couldn't really going to try not to
laugh tonight. But it's going to be

54
00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:09.040
really hard, Oh, yes it
is, Yes it is. And look,

55
00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:15.639
I'm going to mention a particular individual
that absolutely motivated this particular episode,

56
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:17.720
and I'm going to mention him once
and then that's going to be the end

57
00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:24.360
of the discussion on this guy.
But you know a particularly nasty little alternative

58
00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:29.000
radio person out there who calls himself, you know, names himself with a

59
00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:33.800
cartoon character's name Popeye. Is strangely
appropriate, which is strangely appropriate, Yes,

60
00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:39.600
Popeye. This guy got extremely nasty
with me personally. A few years

61
00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:43.120
ago, decided to tell me that
pretty much I was an idiot, and

62
00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:46.680
I needed to do five minutes worth
of research to understand exactly how valid Judath's

63
00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.519
entire story was and how much you
know, he knew. And of course,

64
00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:54.959
this is the guy who I previously
mentioned but didn't mention him by name,

65
00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.480
had told me that I needed to
check with people like Kim Fetzer and

66
00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:04.160
Haslam and James Douglas because these people
all back Judith's story. Now, what

67
00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:08.480
Popeye was not aware of is that
at the time, in my cell phone

68
00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.319
I did have Jim Douglas's home number. Because guess what, ladies and gentlemen,

69
00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:15.680
the whole reason why you have a
JFK and the Unspeakable audiobook is because

70
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:19.759
I complained to Jim Douglas that I
was having trouble reading his book. Okay,

71
00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:23.720
I'm actually one of the inspirations for
the creation of that, and Jim

72
00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.439
did it himself. It wasn't Simon
and Schuster noticed. It's under the original

73
00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:30.279
copyright which Jim owned, and he
was the one who actually created it with

74
00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:34.480
Tantor, which was a media group
that you know, handled the distribution of

75
00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:39.079
it to Audible and all that other
stuff. And he sent me a copy

76
00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.439
of it on CD with a little
note saying thanks for inspiring the creation of

77
00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.800
this just so you know. So
Popeye who was giving me this name,

78
00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:49.399
James Douglas, also supports that.
I figured, you know what, I'm

79
00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:55.040
going to give James Douglas a call
and see if that's true. So I

80
00:07:55.160 --> 00:08:00.279
called James Douglas and guess what,
Yeah, I said, Look, Jim

81
00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:05.240
Fetzer is Jim Fetser. Yeah,
ED has them. I can't explain,

82
00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.279
but Jim Douglas I happen to know. So let me go see if that's

83
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.120
correct. Because you know, in
all the conversations I ever had with Jim,

84
00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:16.079
he never really pointed to her having
any sort of validity or anything.

85
00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:18.759
And we discussed Oswald in New Orleans, uh, personally, just over the

86
00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:22.839
phone, and Jim, I think
to this day, still only has a

87
00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:26.240
landline in his house somewhere down in
the South. I don't even want to

88
00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:28.279
tell you where Jim lives because it's
not information that he shares with everybody.

89
00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.240
Kind of an interesting guy, somebody
who I don't necessarily agree with on everything,

90
00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.639
but wrote one of the seminal books
in the case JFK and the unspeakable.

91
00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:39.120
It's an excellent book. You know, when it comes to literature,

92
00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:43.759
that thing is awesome compared to you
know, ninety nine percent of what's floating.

93
00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:48.360
Okay, so this was a guy
I actually, an author I have

94
00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.240
respect for. I decided to contact
and this is what happened. No,

95
00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.159
I never had that. She one
time sent me a letter and I,

96
00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:58.440
you know, said some kind words
to her and I think sent her as

97
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:03.320
signed book back or something like that. But that was about it. So

98
00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:07.440
I went back and told him this, and of course again he just decided

99
00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:09.679
to go private on me and call
me all kinds of names. And then

100
00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:15.240
immediately following I was also called names
by other Judas supporters and picked on for

101
00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.559
my eyesight and given all kinds of
crap. And some evidence of that still

102
00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:24.320
exists publicly on YouTube, which is
funny because Glenn Wicklen saw that when when

103
00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.559
we were having a recent conversation and
actually commented on it on Facebook and decided

104
00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.039
to show people. Gee, isn't
it strange? I feel bad for Chuck

105
00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:37.200
having to be left all alone to
contend with Judy and her supporters. So

106
00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.279
that is actually how that exists.
And there you go. That's my partial

107
00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:43.960
proof because you know, YouTube no
longer has that private email system set up

108
00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:48.679
anymore. So if they want to
check, they can also go to Facebook

109
00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:56.159
their insults and idiotic claims dot many
pages right so, and and hopefully I

110
00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:03.039
have a friend that possibly posted and
add for this show on the down the

111
00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:09.679
rabbit Hole Facebook page and hopefully that
happened, so that who knows we can

112
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.799
reach out and touch someone. Listen, we can. And by the way,

113
00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:18.399
if either Judith or Popeye want to
call in, the phone number is

114
00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:24.200
seven one, seven eight two nine
six. There is no screener. You

115
00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.440
will be added onto the air immediately. Just no block numbers, is the

116
00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:33.279
rule. Yes, that's true,
no block numbers, and I will add

117
00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.720
you onto the air. So use
one of those burner cell phones that you're

118
00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:41.799
using for your safety, Judy,
and call me if you'd like, and

119
00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:43.720
I'll tell you what. I'll ask
the rest of the panel to be quiet,

120
00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.360
and I will have a conversation with
you where I might ask you a

121
00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.960
total of five questions, okay,
and you can defend yourself and do whatever

122
00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.639
it is you like open lines.
Okay. So now that all that is

123
00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:03.679
out of the way, and I
run my mouth. Now, I don't

124
00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.919
want to run my mouth for this
one, and I want to get Glenn

125
00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:11.840
on because Glenn's stuff is superb,
you know. And Glenn, by the

126
00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:13.960
way, let let's let's make a
statement here. Glenn is not exactly a

127
00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.039
guy who would agree with me on
a lot of things. No, no,

128
00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.679
we don't agree in a lot of
things either, but he's reasonable,

129
00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.480
and he's respectful, reasonable, respectful. And then when he had a curiosity

130
00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:31.039
about a question in his own home
country of Sweden regarding her political asylum claims,

131
00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:37.399
he decided to check it out for
himself, you know, and gee,

132
00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:41.559
interesting what he comes up with.
Yeah, the facts don't exactly match

133
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:46.840
the story, which seems to be
a constant theme. And for more on

134
00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:52.440
that, I want to now turn
it over to Zach and Trish and let's

135
00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:54.639
see if that's a good enough segue
to get to where they're gonna go.

136
00:11:56.440 --> 00:12:01.720
And no more need to mention cartoon
characters and people who don't actually do research

137
00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:07.480
that just buy stories. Well,
with the exception of Judith yourself, Okay,

138
00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.919
because let's keep the focus where it
belongs. Chris quotes, I'm just

139
00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.679
letting you know for later on,
Okay, if we get to them,

140
00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.279
we might need comic relief because I'm
telling you trying to listen to And I

141
00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.960
gave each of these people a link
to a five hour interview with Judy,

142
00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.919
just just to give them the total
flavor in audio form, not to sit

143
00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:35.360
there and have to torturously read that
Me and Lee book, but to actually

144
00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:39.840
listen to what it sounds like when
she is given a friendly form to speak.

145
00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.480
Now you tell us after two of
us have already read it. Yeah,

146
00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:48.360
Well, and what it does is
it is a perfect snapshot in five

147
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.480
hours. That way you don't have
to waste all the time. I mean,

148
00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:52.759
unless you can read her book in
five hours. I mean you know

149
00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:56.159
I can. I salute you if
you can, but without having to go

150
00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:00.720
through that torture, if you just
sit through this five hours. But that

151
00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:03.039
made each of our head spin.
Also, And I've heard all this before

152
00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.080
for sure. I don't know if
these guys had, but I heard it

153
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:11.720
all before, and I still had
to keep stopping walking away and just going

154
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:16.000
clearing your head. Oh, oh, you know, because it does seem

155
00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:22.639
to be like an mk ultra exercise. It's like psychic driving on acid.

156
00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:28.399
Baby, Okay, now, again, I'm sorry. I did say I

157
00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:31.159
was going to turn it over to
Zach and Trish, and that's exactly what

158
00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:33.000
I want to do. So me
and Carmine are going to mute, and

159
00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:41.559
the floor is both of yours.
Well, I think there's a lot that

160
00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:45.960
can be said justin if you read
her daily post that she puts. I'll

161
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.879
give you an example. On March
twenty third of this year, she actually

162
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.320
wrote a post on her own Facebook
wall admitting that she lied over her dog

163
00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.639
Cindy versus Sperky and the Men Who
Killed Kennedy documentary. And I thought that

164
00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:03.440
was just so unusual, such a
petty thing to lie about and then actually

165
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.240
admit it. Just you know,
why, why would she live at something

166
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.559
that insignificant? And again it makes
you wonder what else has been brought up.

167
00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:18.039
Another thing that's kind of really stuck
in my time, in my mind

168
00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.240
is the timeframe that she gives.
There's a lot of controversy on where Oswald

169
00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.120
was staying between April twenty sixth and
the twenty nine Some people say he was

170
00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:31.240
at the Moret's place, which by
all accounts looking at the testimony by the

171
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.919
Morets and such, it does appear
that he showed up at that time once

172
00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.799
he got to New Orleans. Other
things you read say he didn't move in

173
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.639
until at twenty ninth, which was
the Monday, and that he was staying

174
00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:46.600
at the YMCA in New Orleans.
One thing that really jumps out at me

175
00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:52.440
is Lilyan Morrett testifies that Lee was
a creature of Habit would come home,

176
00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:54.799
he'd eat dinner, and he'd stand
for the rest of the night. He

177
00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:58.080
went to bed early. But on
two separate occasions, Judy's got him out

178
00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.279
staying David Ferry's house all night.
So one of them is on the twenty

179
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.559
eighth, which is a Sunday night. They had a big roaring party there,

180
00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:13.080
and of course Lewis was there,
and Martin was there and Oswald apparently

181
00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:18.519
we're playing chess all night. But
again depending on whose version you believe of

182
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.919
when Oswald was actually the Marets,
that is up her discrepancy there. And

183
00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:28.759
then she also has them going out
on the thirtieth, which was a Tuesday

184
00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:31.039
night, which, of course worst
case scenario if he did move in on

185
00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:35.159
the twenty ninth, it still contradicts
what's in testimony. So that's always kind

186
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.919
of stuck out to me that,
you know, how could she be that

187
00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:43.399
off with that information. Yeah,
that's something that's really important to consider,

188
00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:48.200
is that her book is so far
off removed from, you know, the

189
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.799
recorded testimonies of actual people that were
verified to be there. For instance,

190
00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:58.240
she goes on in her book you
Know, Me and Lee about how Oswald

191
00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:03.320
was arrested because of a green glass
that he stole for Judith. But if

192
00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:08.600
you read em at Barbie's statement,
he was the guy that worked with Oswald,

193
00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.360
he basically states, and others,
including LeBlanc, who was also his

194
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.679
boss, who gave testimony to the
Warm Commission, said that he was let

195
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:21.080
go because he was losing interest in
wandering off on the job and it had

196
00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.480
nothing to do with the green glass. It's just almost like these incidents are

197
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.480
completely made up, and it's really
kind of hard to understand where that stuff

198
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:33.120
is coming from. Well, and
this is an interesting point to bring out.

199
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:34.399
I'm just giving you guys a rest. I'm still going to turn it

200
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:40.639
back over to you. But the
thing is that over and over again we

201
00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:45.759
do find that in the official explanation. Although I personally disagree with the official

202
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:51.039
conclusions, we do find that they
did a rather bang up job accounting for

203
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:59.600
Oswald's whereabouts in certain timelines rather completely. You know, there is no lack

204
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:04.119
of interesting information tying him to certain
plate, people, places, and things

205
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:11.680
that don't allow for her timeline to
even exist regarding a lot of stuff,

206
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:18.400
you know, that's right. I
mean, oh, I'm sorry, I

207
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.799
just wanted to quickly interject. It's
also a problem with the commission later on.

208
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:27.079
They wasted a lot of time finding
Oswald and unimportant events, and they

209
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:33.039
neglected things like, oh, in
the sniper's nest timeline. Well yeah,

210
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.119
and these are all valid points.
But what I'm saying is when they were

211
00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:41.200
peripherally looking into his life, definitely, yeah, they did an excellent job

212
00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:47.720
tracking down you know, like certain
records, of placing him in different places,

213
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:52.240
things like that. And that's despite
the chicanery that went on in my

214
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.400
estimation regarding Hoover's investigation of the man. You know that there was all sorts

215
00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:59.880
of well, g if he wasn't
on this bus going to Mexico City,

216
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.559
he must have been on this one, you know. I mean, stuff

217
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:04.880
like that happens in the record,
and I understand it. But what I

218
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.359
was saying is well, after a
while, if you tie him down to

219
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:15.240
the official record and even think that
that's remotely reliable, there's a whole bunch

220
00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.400
of pieces of her story that can't
possibly have happened unless we're talking about more

221
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:26.880
than one individual. So there you
go. You can't you can't have two

222
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.559
people in in uh you know,
you can't have one person in three places

223
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.000
at once. It doesn't work.
So there you go. That's that's a

224
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:37.839
spot where I mean, you know, I hate to give anything to the

225
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.599
Commission personally, but you know,
credit where credits do, Like I always

226
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:45.079
say, so go ahead, guys, what what else do you do you

227
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:49.839
see? Because I mean, I
know that going through that interview was was

228
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:55.440
a bit painful, and I only
had you guys go through parts of it,

229
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:00.240
each of you. But you know, but but what, Yeah,

230
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.839
I told you, if you watch
the whole thing, you buy your book

231
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.720
at the end, it is like
mk ultra exactly. That's why. That's

232
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:11.400
why I likened it to psychic driving. That's what it's like because after a

233
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.079
while, your hill is spinning so
much. Yeah, good, go ahead,

234
00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:19.279
guys. Well, one thing on
the interview that I noticed is she

235
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.319
does have quite a remarkable memory,
and she was spouting off a lot of

236
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:26.400
facts, you know, rather quickly, with a fair amount of detail.

237
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:30.480
But then on the other hand,
she spends a lot of time nitpicking,

238
00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.839
you know, towards other researchers.
I remember in the first hour she spent

239
00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:37.759
you know, complaining about Max Holland
for a good amount of the time,

240
00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.079
and I didn't quite understand what it
was she was even trying to say.

241
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.160
And I'm not trying to knock her, and you know her her speaking abilities,

242
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.759
but it's it just sometimes comes at
you in a roundabout fashion and it's

243
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:55.000
rather hard to understand what she's even
trying to, you know, get across

244
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:57.440
the people some of the times.
Another good example of that is when she's

245
00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:03.559
discussing Dave Fairies rebuild car. She
says that he had a new car,

246
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.240
then he had an old car,
and then it was that was repossessed,

247
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:10.519
but then it was somebody else's car. And I still haven't got those lines

248
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:12.680
straight. I've been reading that all
afternoon today and I still don't know exactly

249
00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:15.960
what her point is and whose car
it was. But one thing that I

250
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.319
was perfectly clear on was she stated
that he had a motorcycle. However,

251
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.519
she didn't put it in her book
because she never wrote it, So little

252
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:33.000
food for thought there. M well, yeah, it's interesting to see what

253
00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:37.599
else she didn't put in her book, And at various times during the interview,

254
00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.720
she states that there was a bunch
of things that she couldn't put in

255
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:48.480
her book because she would be afraid
for her life. I find that counterintuitive,

256
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.960
because, after all, if you're
somebody that is out there saying that

257
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.960
you know, first of all,
I was involved in a conspiracy to utilize

258
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:03.279
medical testing on uns expecting prisoners illegally
and causing the death of other human beings,

259
00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:07.200
which has no statute of limitations.
I also had fore knowledge of the

260
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:12.599
plot to kill the president, which
also has no statute of limitations, and

261
00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:17.400
all of these other wonderful things.
What is it that you would be afraid

262
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:19.799
to put in this book exactly that
would get you killed, in prisoned,

263
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:25.559
et cetera. I wonder, wonder, wonder, because how much more extreme

264
00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:27.440
could you go than that? I
mean, I was involved in the agency,

265
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:32.359
I knew CIA people, I knew
mafia people. But there are things

266
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.599
I couldn't put in the book.
Well, it might have a little something

267
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:41.720
to do with that most of those
people are dead and they can't contradict her

268
00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:51.319
claims. That might be the case. So anything else you guys want to

269
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:56.839
add, Zach and Trish before we
move forward. I wanted to say something,

270
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:02.680
you know, I've you know,
I've been into some disputes with folks

271
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:07.079
online about Judith. I've I've spoken
to her online a couple of times myself,

272
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:10.680
and I've been accused of trist also, and I'm sure all of us

273
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.440
have, in one way or another, accused of disliking her as a person,

274
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.279
and it automatically comes to character assassinations. And I just wanted, you

275
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.680
know, if there's any time for
me to put this on the record,

276
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:26.160
that I don't have anything against Judith
as a person, and every time I've

277
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.880
interacted with her, she's actually rather
gracious to people that ask her questions.

278
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:34.759
My main concern is that she has
been, you know, not able to

279
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:41.039
substantiate her claims, and that to
me, I find it personally offensive that

280
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.799
people, you know, take this
without a grain of salt and are trying

281
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:51.559
to interject it into his historical record, and you know, without giving it

282
00:22:52.200 --> 00:23:00.559
the amount of attention and gravity that
it should it should deserve, and you

283
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.640
know, I don't. It's not
that anybody has any personal problem with her,

284
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.039
it's just that, you know,
it's it's just that people need to

285
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:10.559
be responsible when they're when they're looking
these accounts, and and if there isn't

286
00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:14.720
direct evidence, then you know,
perhaps we should take a step back and

287
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.920
wonder why so many people are willing
to accept this. Well, right,

288
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.440
and even though I believe that that
just like much of her accounts, the

289
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:30.039
whole accounts of her being threatened by
others and being approached and you know,

290
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.720
having a conspiracy of now you know, radicalized Muslims after her, and god

291
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.680
knows whatever else, you know,
all of these other things, although I

292
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:41.759
believe it's all fictitious, I made
this statement online that you know, Look,

293
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:47.279
I in no way support the threatening
or harming of anybody, no matter

294
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:52.039
what it is they're saying out there. You know that the problem I have

295
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.079
is with it, just as you
do. Her trying to interject herself into

296
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.759
the historical record, trying to make
claims that you know, that she was

297
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:04.119
part of the historical record that has
been since redacted, you know, and

298
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.519
and things like this, because it's
very misleading and I think is counterproductive to

299
00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:15.359
anybody who believes that this was a
significant event in history and that Oswald,

300
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.200
because he is obviously a player in
the event in one way or another.

301
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:22.599
You know, misdirection about him is
no good. Whether you want to make

302
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:29.759
him the you know, the kooky
malcontent you know that you know that was

303
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.960
just absolutely insane, as some people
do, or if you want to make

304
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:37.400
him mister innocent and clean. Either
way, I think that honesty at this

305
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.920
point, especially because the man is
long since dead and has been convicted in

306
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:47.079
the public's mind for so long,
I think that some care ought to be

307
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:52.000
taken to actually straighten out the historical
record, you know. So that that's

308
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:56.880
why I can say this, well
right as far as that concerned, Big

309
00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:04.079
claims require big evidence, indeed,
and substantial, very substantial. You can't

310
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:08.480
just step up and say that you
know everything, because that's you're either diluted

311
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.759
or you're a myth maker if you
say that no one knows everything. There

312
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.759
are over ten million files. We've
got the Warrant Commission, we've got the

313
00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:22.599
House Select Committee, we've got the
Church Committee, we've got the Rockefeller Commission,

314
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:27.240
we've got the ar RB we've got
all of the classified files that were

315
00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:33.480
hidden away until the nineties. No
one has seen everything, right, and

316
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:37.480
if they say they have, they're
lying to you. Well, right,

317
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.599
And you know, but this is
part of the presentation of the mythology,

318
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:48.359
and why it's so attractive to the
uninitiated especially, is because she presents herself

319
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.599
as the key to all of these
interesting little claims, you know, and

320
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:56.920
all of these interesting little factoids that
have emerged, you know, in the

321
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:03.319
research community over the years. He
is actually the Rosetta Stone, according to

322
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.680
her, you know. And and
this is what the problem is. Now,

323
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:11.359
this is what I believe about her
story. And then I'll move on

324
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:15.720
to Carmine, and then I'm really
looking forward to moving on to Glenn Blicklin,

325
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.000
who has joined us on the conversation. By the way, how are

326
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.160
you doing tonight, Glenn? Thank
you, Chuck. I'm fine. Yeah,

327
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:26.359
I'm gonna put you after Carmine.
But but I know that what you're

328
00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:33.680
gonna say is going to spawn a
lot of discussion. So how's that?

329
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:37.799
Am I that controversial of you?
Mean? Well, you may be,

330
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.519
sir, you may be, but
I'm telling you right now, a reasonable

331
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.519
and intelligent man you are, though
I may disagree with you on some issues.

332
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:49.279
You know, from what I can
tell, I do. And I

333
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:55.400
also appreciate your characterization of me,
like being left all alone on the battlefield

334
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:57.880
with the with Judas minions. By
the way, earlier today, I appreciate

335
00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:02.799
that. Yeah, well, you
know, when I saw I hadn't actually

336
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:07.079
seen that before, but when I
did see it yesterday, I was thinking,

337
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.200
you know, I should have been
there when it happened. Oh,

338
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:12.440
I would have appreciated support there,
because as you can see, it was

339
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:15.400
just, you know, let's go
at them every which way, and we'll

340
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.640
get into the post Kennedy assassination claims
and things like that. That's the section

341
00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:25.759
that you're coming in on, because, of course, well we'll get to

342
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:29.079
that. I want to turn it
over to Carmine after I give this little

343
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:34.359
caveat about this situation. Here's what
I think is the truth regarding Judith and

344
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:41.400
her real connection to the case.
Ready, she may or may not have

345
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:48.599
run into Oswald while working at the
same facility in New Orleans. This seems

346
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.799
likely, not absolute, but likely
that she could have. She could have

347
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:57.599
realized afterwards that she had run into
a person of historical significance, and like

348
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:02.480
many other people throughout the years,
we used to call it the brush with

349
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:07.480
History genre of books in the Kennedy
assassination literature. That was used to be

350
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:10.960
a private joke. But I think
she literally did have a brush with Oswald

351
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:17.200
at some point, probably ignored him
like most people did, because he was

352
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:21.759
a rather odd guy. Anybody that
I've ever spoken to who actually verifiably knew

353
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:27.440
him describes a lot of interesting idiosyncrasies
in this man's character and person. Okay,

354
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.920
so interesting guy, but a turn
off to a lot of people.

355
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.880
I think that Judith probably was turned
off by him, probably had no time

356
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.640
to bother with him and whatever it
was she was engaged in. Despite the

357
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.200
greater embellishments that have been produced by
her in later years, I think that

358
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:55.319
she actually did run into him.
Anything after that becomes the embellishment, becomes

359
00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.599
the introduction and interjection of things which
have been learned over the years, things

360
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:07.319
which have been dispelled over the years, everything from Billy Celestis is an honest

361
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:14.359
guy, to you know, dear
Lord, the abort team. Okay,

362
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.200
to you know the abort team.
Oswald was going to make sure that at

363
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.000
least one shot was not fired to
Kennedy, and that was his purpose,

364
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.119
and that's how he was trying to
save Kennedy's life as he was trying to

365
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.599
turn the plot away. Well that
became well since I learned about Abraham Bolden

366
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.559
later on. You know, even
though it was out in public hands from

367
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:40.880
the nineteen seventies on, you know
that the possibility of the informant in Chicago

368
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.720
being named Lee. Now she says
he tried to save Kennedy's life in Chicago,

369
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:51.000
therefore he had knowledge of the Chicago
plot, which is really interesting given

370
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:57.680
the sort of networking capabilities of individuals
in nineteen sixty three. But you know,

371
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:03.359
let's keep going with the unrealistic.
I think that all of this stuff,

372
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.319
together, along with other mythologies that
have been sort of foisted upon those

373
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.680
who were interested in the subject over
the years, sort of came together in

374
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:18.720
a conglomeration and the evolution of her
story was born. And of course,

375
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:22.160
those that really paid attention to the
literature know that there was an earlier version

376
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.000
of her story that existed that didn't
contain a whole lot of this information.

377
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:33.079
But she blames the fact that that
was vacant of so many of these interesting

378
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:38.480
little factoids and things. She blames
that on the publisher, the people handling

379
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:44.200
the book, etc. The co
author, whatever. There is always someone

380
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.400
else to blame in Judith's case as
opposed to herself, regarding the evolution of

381
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:53.160
her story and why it's changed over
the years. But if you don't believe

382
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:56.799
me, go ahead and get yourself
a copy of one of those early books.

383
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:02.000
Go ahead and get yourself some of
the earlier statements. You know,

384
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:06.359
things about Jack Ruby that are interesting, like during the portion of the interview

385
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:11.480
I listened to where she bluntly says
that Jack Ruby was a bisexual and things

386
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.160
like that, and she knew that
so well, and Jack Ruby characterized this

387
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.640
way in that way. And of
course, again, if you ever spoke

388
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.440
to people that knew Ruby, you
would never hear half of the characterizations that

389
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.160
she brings up, just like in
the case of David Ferry, just like

390
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:33.599
in the case of Lee Harvey Oswald. It's either an alternate universe. Okay,

391
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:41.160
I'll last star Trek, or it's
made up. That's my opinion.

392
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:45.400
That's why you drop it. But
yes, Zach, I think it's important

393
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:52.559
to interject. And there also the
appearance of Haslam's book Mary Ferry and the

394
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:56.079
Monkey Virus in the mid nineties that
seemed to have maybe I don't know,

395
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.200
sparked some sort of creative memories in
Judith's mind or whatever, but a lot

396
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.319
of it seems to be based on
you know, some of the topics he

397
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.839
covered in that were, yeah,
which was written completely vacant again, completely

398
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:14.079
void of Judith's existence for the second
version until the second version which is now

399
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.000
you know, called what doctor Mary's
Monkey or something like this. Right,

400
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:22.119
I don't know because I won't read
the second version. Yeah, I've read

401
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:25.359
one of her books. I'm done, thank you. Enough is enough,

402
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:30.079
So now I'm going to turn it
over to Carmine. Okay. Uh.

403
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.160
The first thing I'd like to say
is we're going to quickly dispel a myth

404
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:37.000
since you all heard Glenn Vickland,
unlike Judith and some of her supporters,

405
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:40.880
said we are not the same person. Oh, I was not aware that

406
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:45.240
there was a controversy regarding Glenn Vikeland
and Carmin Sabistano being the same person.

407
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:50.880
Yeah, that was early on.
Now there's this uh genius named Helen that's

408
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.200
dotting the JFK Ventor group trying to
say that I don't exist, that I'm

409
00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:00.839
an amalgamation apparently of people. Well
right, And I answered that directly too.

410
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:05.400
I answered that quite directly, and
she, like, you know,

411
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:08.519
gave me an appreciate, an appreciative, sort of polite response, and then

412
00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:12.359
continued to go on with her crap. Anyway. That's why I think she's

413
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:17.160
judas. I was just gonna say, doesn't that sound like somebody else we

414
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:22.240
witness online sometimes where it's like here, here's the proof that you're wrong.

415
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:25.559
Oh okay, I'm gonna be quiet
for a day, and then tomorrow I'm

416
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:30.799
gonna come back and say the same
thing anyway exactly. Yeah, yeah,

417
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:32.720
okay, sorry, Carmine. Okay, you know, I just wanted to

418
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:35.559
get that out of the way so
I angle I don't have to deal with

419
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:38.480
that one anymore. Oh yeah.
I can attest to the fact that we

420
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:45.440
had to actually get Glenn to uh
download Skype and everything late last night for

421
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:52.119
us, but early morning for him
to get this working so you could have

422
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:54.319
him on the show. That actually
happened last night when I was on the

423
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:57.720
phone with Carmine at like I don't
know, three or four in the morning

424
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:04.119
something like that. Yeah, okay, so one down here we go,

425
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:12.519
right where to begin? Yeah,
and my portion of the Baker cast,

426
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:16.519
as I like to call it,
I heard quite a few things that don't

427
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:22.760
really add up. Some of the
stranger ones include that she claims credit for

428
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:30.840
discovering that Oswald was shaved all over
his body, including his pubic area,

429
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:35.079
completely after her death, is what
she's stating. And she stayed in at

430
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:39.199
the CIA or the police did it, and it had something to do with

431
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.800
covering up her allegations. How it
does I cannot fathom, No, totally

432
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:49.920
see. And that's the other thing
is that quite often with her story,

433
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:53.320
if you notice, a whole lot
of interesting little tidbits are thrown out there

434
00:34:53.880 --> 00:35:00.280
with seemingly no purpose, that have
no particular trail to anything else exact just

435
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:05.320
the uh. It's very much like
the James H. Fetzer style of debate,

436
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.360
where you throw eighty things at somebody, give them two minutes to respond,

437
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:14.559
and you can't possibly cover all of
these little tidbits of nonsense. Yeah,

438
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:16.800
just muddy the waters as much as
possible. Yeah, just here here's

439
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:21.360
all the muddy, now clear it. It's not gonna happen. And and

440
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:23.719
what did I do when when you
were discussing that with me, is I

441
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.440
showed you the the post mortem photographs
of Oswald and I said, okay,

442
00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:32.960
where Yeah, but exactly. Yeah, So she's wrong again according to the

443
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.559
evidence. She's just you know,
this is just it's created. There's no

444
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:40.679
other way to say it. Yeah, somebody created this, maybe she didn't,

445
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:44.320
maybe somebody wrote it for her,
but this didn't happen. And she's

446
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:46.599
trying to blame the CIA for shaving
his pubic area like it matters, like

447
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:50.840
like it's of some consequence, and
it's not. And she wasn't even in

448
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:53.719
contact with him in any of the
days before the assassination, So how what

449
00:35:53.840 --> 00:36:00.840
did he bring it up? By
the way, that is a weird question

450
00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:04.519
right there is what relevance would his
pubic hair have to her claims, considering

451
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:09.039
the fact that she had left New
Orleans months before, right and wasn't in

452
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:13.840
Dallas or in contact with him physically, although she claims to have been in

453
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:17.800
contact with him by phone, which
I still don't buy. But records,

454
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.840
yeah, well, they don't exist
because they were utilizing an illegal you know,

455
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:27.599
phone line that the that they pop
utilized, you know, so which

456
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:31.119
if you actually know the nature of
what it is she's making a reference to,

457
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:36.719
you know how ludicrous that is?
Yeah, okay, next if I

458
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:39.800
may, Yeah, I'm sorry.
Oh it's okay. No, You're gonna

459
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:43.159
have stuff to say about all this, and I welcome it. I just

460
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.480
there's just so much I want to
try to cover it all by all means.

461
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:52.119
I don't want to have time a
bigger What else does she say?

462
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:58.079
She says that everyone who doesn't agree
with her story usually tries to make up

463
00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:00.239
lies to discredit her. She claims
to all the proof needed, but never

464
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:06.719
offers it. She declared the story
is not for sale, however her evolving

465
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:13.800
books are. She asserts the book
was only offered to one publisher, Trying

466
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:17.960
Day and Chris Milligan, Yet her
prior claims on her blog refute that if

467
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:21.800
you go to her blog. In
her biography, she said, if any

468
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:25.639
publisher showed interest in this incomplete story, which omitted some key names and activities,

469
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:30.320
I then bring out the full six
hundred pages I'd written for protection from

470
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:36.760
lawsuits. So any publisher, yeah, well, can I just chip in

471
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:42.280
their core mine? Well, you
know what you're saying is is correct,

472
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.760
of course, And this goes on
a lot of subjects, lots of them,

473
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:52.039
you know, many many subjects.
She said one thing one day and

474
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.679
then a completely different saying the next
day, and this goes on and on,

475
00:37:55.239 --> 00:38:00.159
and I think the best way to
check that and to see that are

476
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:07.320
actually what David Reids's has done,
because he's really been very meticulous in showing

477
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:12.320
how she said one thing at one
point and then a completely different story.

478
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:16.360
You know, next time the same
subject is up for discussion. So this

479
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:22.199
is really this goes in a lot
of areas. Basically, oh yeah,

480
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:27.440
yeah, no her. I've always
tried to tell people that the undoing of

481
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.679
any myth is within its own claims. They always give us the rope to

482
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:40.119
hang them with. Yeah, digging
right, right. I'd like to state

483
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:45.679
that Karmaen and you said that she
never presents the proof, but I flat

484
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:47.559
out asked her, I said,
where is your proof? And she said,

485
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:52.880
quote, it's all in the book
and we've read it. It's not

486
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:58.480
right. Yeah, And that brings
up another interesting point is that anytime anyone

487
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:02.960
questions her stories, she claims that
you merely haven't read the book. And

488
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:06.920
then if we have read the book. Then the next claim is that you're

489
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:10.079
a liar. If that doesn't work
your CIA. If that doesn't work,

490
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:14.199
you work for McAdams. If that
doesn't work, you know, just on

491
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:22.960
and on with personal attacks without a
stitch of evidence. Ever. Yeahs are

492
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:25.639
terrible in that book too. Yeah, the pictures. Half the time,

493
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:32.559
she was right. She was called
out quite clearly on the citations, and

494
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:39.039
she claimed that her editor at Trion
Day wouldn't publish them because they felt like

495
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:43.559
they weren't part of her story,
and she was upset about this, but

496
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:50.199
evidently this was a publication decision and
they witheld her citations and against her will.

497
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:54.880
That's what she said. Yeah,
which I doubt I truly do,

498
00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:00.599
No matter how I might feel about
the various claims mister Milligan is made about

499
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:05.480
me, I still doubt that his
company would just rip out a bunch of

500
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:08.719
citations because those are kind of important
to the verifiability of the book. Well,

501
00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:13.400
not only that, but it leaves
it perfectly wide open. I'm sorry,

502
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:17.239
it leaves it perfectly wide open for
her to publish said citations on her

503
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:23.000
blog site as an addendum to her
own book. She is fully capable and

504
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:27.920
allowed to do so, you know, as an author, and I'm sure

505
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:32.800
she retained in some of the copyright
therefore, good. Well that's exactly right,

506
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:37.239
Chuck, I asked her. I
said, well, you obviously have

507
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:39.440
these all prepared. Will you please
present them to us? And she said,

508
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:44.119
okay, I'll post them tomorrow,
and then the next day she offered

509
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.000
some excuse in and didn't put them
up. It's the only history book I

510
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:53.400
know that gives a citation for Bullwinkle. You're being nice, let's not lie,

511
00:40:53.440 --> 00:41:04.239
tonybody. Okay. It's the only
alleged non picture, nonfiction historical record

512
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:12.960
about people that gives a citation for
Bulllinkle. Yeah that I know. I

513
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:21.440
could be wrong, but I think
the problem Watch me, Rockie, will

514
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:25.039
I pull some evidence out of my
all right? Anyway? Okay? So

515
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:30.280
where was I? Yes? After
the uh that there was that, And

516
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:32.760
I'll try to just because I know
we have a Do you want me to

517
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:35.679
wrap up with one more? Or
do you want me to do a couple

518
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:39.599
more? Oh? Go ahead and
do a couple okay, Uh okay,

519
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:47.880
uh. Yes. This is one
of the funny Baker Popeye exchanges. Baker

520
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:55.840
says that she claims that in nineteen
ninety nine, she spoke out about the

521
00:41:55.960 --> 00:42:04.559
Chicago UH plot and that the informat
was named Lee before Abraham Bolden did.

522
00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:10.159
But we know that's not true because
all of that was covered in the sixties

523
00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:15.119
and the seventies. But it was
covered in I believe nineteen seventy five and

524
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:20.760
Edwin's Black's article in the Chicago Independent, which you can still find online,

525
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:29.079
which is exactly the source that was
misquoted in Lamar Waldron's book Ultimate Sacrifice,

526
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:32.719
which is not on my suggested reading
list, ladies and gentlemen. But either

527
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.840
way, I tortured myself with it. The thing is that he has it

528
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:43.679
incorrectly noted to a different author,
but it's actually Edwin Black who wrote about

529
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:47.679
it when he did an investigative reporting
piece regarding the Chicago plot in nineteen seventy

530
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:54.280
five. Now, okay, to
also debunk her claims about the Lee name,

531
00:42:54.800 --> 00:43:00.159
she demands the Chicago informat was called
Lee, but how many informants could

532
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:04.320
be called Lee? Because she said
it has to be him. So what

533
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:08.880
I did is I went to a
census statistical analysis site and there are currently

534
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:13.599
three hundred and forty one thousand,
fifty three people named Lee male and female

535
00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:17.280
in the United States, So right
off the top, it's very unlikely.

536
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:22.880
Now let's add that Lee is likely
a fake name, because confidential informants don't

537
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:27.840
use their real names right generally,
either given a code name or a number,

538
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.920
they were unlikely a number or a
cryptonym of some type exactly. But

539
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:36.840
even if it is a numeral,
and you know, if it's an alphanumeric

540
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:42.800
combination, it's still it's usually something
that is not easily decodable, not easily

541
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:47.199
traced back to a real person's identity. This is the way this is done.

542
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:52.800
So the fact that the informant is
allegedly named Lee based on you know,

543
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.920
the lie detector test which was issued
to Abraham Bolden in the seventies,

544
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:02.679
Okay, who was the unnamed Secret
Service informant in Edwin Black's article, which

545
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:07.840
we learned about much much later.
But the fact is that's where it actually

546
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:12.639
came from. Okay. And look, you want to challenge the validity of

547
00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:15.000
Abraham Boulden's story, that's fine and
dandy, but that becomes a separate issue.

548
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:19.440
The fact is that this was something
that had been bandied about for a

549
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:25.039
long time and was even reissued to
me sometime in the nineties through a research

550
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:32.000
service called Prevailing Wins. Okay,
so this was available, and it's not

551
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:36.519
the only time she does it.
She's also in you know, on her

552
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:43.480
blog in James Fetzer's articles said that
Fetzer said many researchers have taken her information

553
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:45.440
and used it and not credited her, and he includes Joan Mellon, which

554
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:52.760
I find ridiculous, right, because
Joan Mellon is a respected researcher who presents

555
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:58.320
evidence. So I don't think that
she or anyone else Judith has ever claimed

556
00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:02.800
have used her research with outproof.
Has presents evidence. Not only that,

557
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:12.320
but very carefully footnotes, everything creates
attributions. Make sure when any publisher publishes

558
00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:15.639
anything, and she's been published by
various publishers, okay, make sure that

559
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:21.440
they're you know, even the footnotes
are correct. Everything is correct in her

560
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:23.920
book as best she can, you
know, And and you know, you

561
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:27.800
give her a fair shot at being
able to do that, considering that she's

562
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:31.280
an English professor. You know,
this is why she is so meticulous about

563
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:35.320
these kinds of things, because she
sort of insists on these sort of standards

564
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:39.440
from her students. Temple University professor
Joan Mellon. And again you want to

565
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:45.079
dispute her work, fine, but
think about the nature of that work,

566
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:47.639
especially when we're talking about New Orleans, as was revealed on my show.

567
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:52.800
You know, if you talk about
investigating the entire New Orleans asset, you

568
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:58.039
know, aspect of the case.
Excuse me for miss speaking. You know,

569
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:02.920
she interviewed one tho I was in
two hundred people for her book on

570
00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:10.199
Garrison and the New Orleans aspect of
the investigation. Tell me who else has

571
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:16.679
done that? And yeah, yeah, look at her results and see who

572
00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:22.360
isn't mentioned. Well, and that's
the funny thing is in twelve hundred interviews,

573
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:30.599
guess whose name does not appear?
Okay, go ahead, zach Yeah,

574
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:35.079
I just want to interject to him. I flat on asked her about

575
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:37.599
this, and I asked her what
type of research or what type of work

576
00:46:38.119 --> 00:46:42.119
are you doing? And she said, well, no, this isn't research,

577
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:47.440
therefore it doesn't require footnotes. It's
a personal memoir. So take that

578
00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:58.639
how you will. Yeah, well, I think yeah. Wait. One

579
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:02.079
of the reasons for this, Zachary, is that she's always said, you

580
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:06.280
know, I'm not a researcher,
but I'm a witness, and she's been

581
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:12.199
very sort of diligent about the difference. Of course, she want to be

582
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:15.800
the witness, not the researcher.
And I mean it's not those of us

583
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:22.960
who've seen her in action for a
number of years, all right, not

584
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:28.159
only that, but claiming, yes, yeah, claiming also to be the

585
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:32.400
only living witness that actually knew Lee
Harvey Oswald aside from Marina. Well,

586
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:36.440
all you have to do is listen
to my radio show to know that that's

587
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:40.559
bull because who did I have on
but Ernst Titowitz, who was Oswald's friend

588
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:45.599
in Russia and kind of knew the
guy. Okay, So there are and

589
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.760
there's actually a bunch of them.
A lot of them don't want their names

590
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:52.039
released, will not come out and
speak publicly, won't do interviews. But

591
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:58.159
if you very carefully and gingerly approach
them, you can find individuals who actually

592
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:00.719
knew Lee at various points in his
life. Although we only lived to be

593
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:07.280
the age of twenty four. And
then there are those who say they knew

594
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:13.400
him and that's true as well.
Yeah, and these people better be careful,

595
00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:16.000
you know, they better write their
life story down on paper because when

596
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:20.800
they die, she's gonna include them
in something. Well, yeah, that's

597
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:24.119
true, and she's already included.
And I want to get to this because

598
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:28.119
I know Carmine is probably gonna cross
over on this, because I think the

599
00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:30.920
portion of the interview that you listened
to might have covered this as well.

600
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:36.920
Her views on Marina Oswald did was
that, no, she didn't really talk

601
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:37.760
to the I can if you want, we can go right to that.

602
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:42.599
I'll finish up with just this last
one. This I think is another you

603
00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:47.360
know, it shows exactly who we're
dealing with. So it started out with

604
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:51.880
I've never seen this because I wasn't
really looking for but have you guys seen

605
00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:59.599
a Masonic obelisk near Daily Plaza or
in Daily Plaza? I've heard about this

606
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:05.039
claim before. Okay, well,
there are certain structural you know what that

607
00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:10.719
is. That that is the aggregation
of a belief in the King Kill thirty

608
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:15.880
three concept, which is all about
Masonic ritual and things like that. And

609
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:21.639
there are some interesting things that go
on there that do pop up and seem

610
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:24.920
as though it might have been but
it's one of those things where you're grasping

611
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:30.199
its straws. And of course,
why not incorporate that into her consolidated myth

612
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:37.880
exactly the master myth incorporating more peripheral
conspiracy. So Popeye claimed the local Masonic

613
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:43.239
oblast marker is a vengeful reminder of
the widespread dark forces that he and Baker

614
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:47.760
claim are responsible for JFK's debt.
Now, of course, then Baker,

615
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:53.079
of course parrots has unproven and highly
improbable claim with and of course, she

616
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:57.719
then launches into a diet tribe about
world government, big bankers, and other

617
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:02.719
vague ideas without any proof. Of
course, she claims the most symbolic organizations

618
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:07.760
with such markers are signs of their
dominance. And she says it's a large

619
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:10.719
plot, yet each person ascribed as
one job, so no one can be

620
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:17.480
blamed in her estimation. This is
also unproven and improbable. So then Popeye

621
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:23.559
ends with a mishmash of ideas and
offers a listener that will take a picture

622
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:30.039
of JVB's book next to Oswald's grave. He will give them a free Federal

623
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:35.599
Jack dot Com T shirt, but
it has to be a real picture of

624
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:37.679
a copy of her book next to
Oswald's grave. And what is her reply?

625
00:50:38.119 --> 00:50:43.679
Fantastic is her reply? Of course, then he asks for them to

626
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:50.519
send the photo for the T shirt. The word shameless does not cover this

627
00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:55.559
bit of blasphemy. And I'm an
atheist and I'm saying blasphemy. Well.

628
00:50:55.960 --> 00:51:00.480
Even worse, of course, is
the grave party that she Yeah, well,

629
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:04.880
and she also said she collects these
pictures. Well isn't that nice,

630
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:13.920
right? A loving a loving tribute
to how she loved and lost and everything

631
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:19.679
else. Uh yeah, well okay, yeah, and and there you have

632
00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:22.679
it, and there you have it. And what that is, in all

633
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:28.440
honesty, is an attempt to appeal
to people like myself who do believe that

634
00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:34.400
there is a worldwide cabal of individuals
that are mainly uh interconnected by corporate interests

635
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:40.199
uh, and that do have an
agenda uh that is counterproductive to humanity in

636
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.519
general. That is, it's it's
a way to try and link herself to

637
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:50.960
those that believe in the new World
Order concept. So it is trying to

638
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:55.000
get closer to the the the Alex
Jones uh. Uh, you know,

639
00:51:55.159 --> 00:52:00.800
devotees really and uh and and people
that swear everything has to do with one

640
00:52:01.159 --> 00:52:07.599
singular worldwide cabal. Now do I
believe that there is a singular mindset here

641
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:13.639
when it comes to those that are
among the elite. Absolutely, I think

642
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:17.840
that it's you know, it's completely
plausible based on the fact that there is

643
00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:22.519
an interconnectivity with all of these large
corporate interests acting in concert with one another

644
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:27.880
to do things that are poor for
humanity in general. But all that is

645
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:34.159
is a way of pandering to people
like myself who see broader conspiracies. Okay,

646
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:37.039
that's all that is. It's not
even that she believes this stuff.

647
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:40.679
I mean, you know, at
one point, at one point in this

648
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:45.039
whole thing, she's even talking about, you know, how you can go

649
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:51.079
to her for tips on how to
deal with cancer because of the GMO foods.

650
00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:54.280
I'm telling you, every single thing
that she can possibly pull from the

651
00:52:54.360 --> 00:53:00.840
conspiracy realm into herself. She is
doing this, is what this is.

652
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:07.519
And again it's just pandering to those
that want to hear this. And unfortunately

653
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:13.360
our friend named after the cartoon character
who I'd like to stop mentioning is uh

654
00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:17.760
Is, is part of that.
Okay, So she's pandering to him,

655
00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:23.760
his audience, and the residual people
that might actually just pass across this allegedly

656
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:30.480
groundbreaking piece of tripe that he is
pushing. Okay, And and by the

657
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:32.480
way, why not interact with you
know, some grave pictures and let's have

658
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:37.920
a party by somebody's headstone, because
that's not morbid or strange or you know,

659
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:43.960
slightly disrespectful to somebody's memory or anything. Let's literally dance and party on

660
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:47.840
somebody's grave that we loved so so
much. Exactly. I don't think any

661
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:52.400
of us talking now or anyone listening, has ever gone to a grave and

662
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:58.480
thought, hey, let's get streamers
and balloons. Yeah. I don't know.

663
00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:00.679
Let let's let's take ahead. Count
Glenn, have you ever decided to

664
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:05.239
go to someone's grave and throw like
a cake and ice cream party or what?

665
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.719
I can't say. No, Zach
and Trish maybe you have. Have

666
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:15.239
you guys ever done that? No? And I certainly haven't asked for donations

667
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:17.639
for three hundred dollars worth of balloons
and a cake. Oh oh yeah,

668
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:22.119
the donations too. Let's not forget. Oh we have a phone call?

669
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:28.920
Shall we take it? Yeah?
Yeah, I'm ready. If you are

670
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:35.480
all right, let's do this.
Okay, phone caller, you are on

671
00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:40.920
the air. Hello, Yes,
Hello, Hey, I just calling because

672
00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:49.440
uh I was wondering about Jim Mars. Jim Mars, Judy Baker's story.

673
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:53.000
And you know, Jim Mars is
the one that woke me up after the

674
00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:59.199
JFK movie, you know, in
the whole cross Fire book. And I

675
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:04.639
would just wander why Jim Mars and
you know, guys like Jesse Ventura,

676
00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:10.119
you know, believe Judy Very Baker's
story. I'm just curious to what you

677
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:15.719
guys think. Well, I've got
a lot to say about that, But

678
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:21.920
would anybody else like to take a
crack at it first? I'm more than

679
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:24.079
happy to let you go. I
know that I've often wondered that question myself.

680
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:30.119
Well what do you think? Are
I? Okay? Well, here

681
00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:37.039
I go makeing enemies again. Would
you like my opinion? Well, I

682
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:40.679
mean, I'm just a guy that
I'm a researcher, you know, and

683
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:46.920
I don't believe. I don't believe
duty Very Baker story, but I you

684
00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:52.159
know, I really believe you know, Jim Mars and Jesse Ventura, you

685
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:55.199
know, to a point. You
know, Well, that's you know what

686
00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:59.840
I think that that's a very reasonable
position to take a grain of salt with,

687
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:01.719
no matter who it is. You
know, I've said before, whether

688
00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:07.000
it's me or Judith or anyone that's
written a book, go to the sources

689
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:08.679
and go to the primary evidence,
and that'll show you who's accurate or not.

690
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:15.800
And yeah, my problem with people
that support her like Mars and Jesse

691
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:22.960
Ventura is to me, it is
more likely a press and money issue than

692
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:25.760
it is a they actually believe her
issue. And the longer it seems that

693
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:30.480
some people are involved in the conspiracy
realm, the more things they start to

694
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:36.440
believe. Yeah. Absolutely, and
I'll give you my point of view on

695
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:39.119
this, Okay. All you have
to do is understand that, yes,

696
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:45.559
Jim Mahers makes some interesting points in
some of his presentations, some very valid

697
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:50.840
points, but unfortunately a lot of
the other stuff that the guy pushes is

698
00:56:50.920 --> 00:56:59.599
again pandering to the conspiracy sort of
genre of media. At this point,

699
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:02.960
it's a matter of let me say
the most crap and put out the most

700
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:08.079
you know, stuff so that I'll
appeal to the wider audience. Jim Mars

701
00:57:08.119 --> 00:57:12.320
has been a master at that for
many years, and unfortunately he's sort of

702
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:16.559
been deified among people that do believe
honestly, legitimately that there is a you

703
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:21.679
know, that there is a clear
conspiracy here. Unfortunately, you know,

704
00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:23.360
you don't have to look very much
further than to say, you know,

705
00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:29.119
take a look at his explanation about
the silver certificates, and you know the

706
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:31.719
executive order number one one one,
one zero. This is one of the

707
00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:36.920
earliest guys really pushing that that whole
thing in print. But if you read

708
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:40.559
the executive order for yourself and understand
it based on what was released and what

709
00:57:40.719 --> 00:57:45.840
actually happened, and the fact that
I proved myself on YouTube by pulling out

710
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:51.920
of the money supply older notes that
were still in circulation that were dated long

711
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:55.960
before Kennedy's time, that this was
not a significant mechanism for Kennedy to have

712
00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:00.519
done anything. Uh. You know, if you put these things together and

713
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:04.679
take a look at a guy like
g Edward Griffin, guess what you have

714
00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:08.960
an explanation that you know, with
very little research tells you that a lot

715
00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:14.480
of the things that Mars pushes falls
apart very easily. But he appeals to

716
00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:19.320
everything from those who believe in the
alien agendas, to the New World Order,

717
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:22.239
to so on and so forth.
And I'm not saying that I necessarily

718
00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:28.519
disbelieve in all of that, but
poor evidence is poor evidence, regardless of

719
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:31.760
what it's supporting. And Mars in
my estimation, is not a guy that

720
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:37.360
you can go to for you know, for primary sourcing. He makes a

721
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:40.199
lot of interesting points, and he
does make some good points. Ventura,

722
00:58:40.679 --> 00:58:45.280
same thing, the fact that the
Kennedy assassination, you know, is likely

723
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:49.840
a conspiracy, and there were many
documents that were withheld and all of these

724
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.679
things. He's dead on right.
But all you got to do is take

725
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:58.679
a look at that god awful conspiracy
theory episode he did where he pushes up,

726
00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:02.280
you know, the nonsense poward Hunt. You know, I forget the

727
00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:06.960
guy who wrote Family of Secrets,
but I mean the poorly sourced end of

728
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:09.320
his book which tries to involve George
H. W. Bush in the plot,

729
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:15.039
you know, the the that was
the Russ Baker. Russ Baker,

730
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:19.800
thank you, Glenn. That's exactly
and his stuff. Again, he did

731
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:23.880
a bang up job when it came
to unmasking George W. Bush in that

732
00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:29.360
book Family of Secrets, but a
god awful job. All sort of mistakes

733
00:59:29.800 --> 00:59:35.800
regarding HW and just literal historical facts, you know, as for where w

734
00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:38.840
HW was, as for who he
was at particular times, as for what

735
00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:44.159
he was involved in everything, you
know what I mean, And you put

736
00:59:44.239 --> 00:59:46.679
that together with you know, like
I said, I Howard Hunt and some

737
00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:52.679
guy who allegedly gives him documents on
a bridge somewhere, which is clearly a

738
00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:57.000
fictional thing that you know, is
meant to represent something else. I mean,

739
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:00.559
Ventura did an awful job with the
Kennedy fascination. And though he may

740
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:04.880
know a lot about certain things like
maybe being the governor of Minnesota for a

741
01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:07.280
short time, and he may know
a lot about being a professional wrestler and

742
01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:13.360
how Hollywood doesn't represent itself properly to
the people and things like that, he

743
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:16.440
doesn't know jack about the Kennedy assassination. That's what it really comes down to,

744
01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:22.840
because he's never really studied the primary
evidence. And even regarding primary stuff,

745
01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:24.760
I mean, look at who he
utilizes as a co author, Dick

746
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:29.559
Russell, you know, and Dick
Russell. You can argue with his stuff

747
01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:32.719
or not, but Dick Russell at
the very least attempted to get primary evidence,

748
01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:38.320
attempted to conduct interviews of real people
that may have been involved, actually

749
01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:43.719
talked to, you know, witnesses
in reality, things like that stuff that

750
01:00:43.840 --> 01:00:50.719
Ventura never did. Despite his position
as a media guy who is accepted by

751
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:55.840
the unfortunately the conspiracy minded audience,
you know. And that's really what I've

752
01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:59.480
got to say about all that.
And I don't know if anybody disagrees with

753
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:04.760
me, but that's where I stand
on it. Well, Chuck, I'd

754
01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:07.960
like to note that this seems to
be kind of a pattern with people who

755
01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:12.599
support Judith. Even if you look
at Jim Fetzer, some of his work

756
01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:15.960
back in the day, like in
the nineties and stuff like that that isn't

757
01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:20.000
even necessarily candy related, but as
critical thinking type of work that he did.

758
01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:23.679
He was actually an award winning professor, you know, studying analysis and

759
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:29.360
people's thinking, critical thinking, And
all of a sudden, he's supporting all

760
01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:35.119
these you know, I'm not gonna
say crazy, but any conspiracy theory that

761
01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:38.119
comes down the canal, he's jumping
on board. Pretty much. It boggles

762
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:42.000
my mind, you know. The
caller mentioned Jim Mars. It seems to

763
01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:45.159
be the same way. Jim Crossfire
is one of the most well respected books

764
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:49.159
in the community, I think,
and all of a sudden, I see

765
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:52.559
Jim Mars writing about UFOs and mind
controls. It's how does this happen?

766
01:01:52.639 --> 01:02:00.039
How did they leap from respectability to
you know those conspiracy theory you know pot

767
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:04.360
pourrie. Yeah, eight oh five
area code. You're on the air.

768
01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:13.800
Hey, guys, this is Steve
bro How you doing. Hey, I

769
01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:21.199
tricked you. I didn't call my
block number, so that it means that

770
01:02:21.800 --> 01:02:27.199
we actually have two individuals on the
air who who are not exactly on my

771
01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:35.840
side regarding the fact that there is
a conspiracy that John F. Kennedy Carmine.

772
01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:39.199
I think we need to, uh
to let Steve and Glenn both speak

773
01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:45.039
now. Yeah, well, no, be honest with you. Uh,

774
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:54.239
letn't take that one up later.
But uh, good conversation with with Judy

775
01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:58.400
baby there. And uh, I'd
like to hear more of Glenn there if

776
01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:06.719
it could go daring his Swedish study
on that on that and he's got a

777
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:10.199
lot of gradient when he's been in
there for a long long time. Absolutely,

778
01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:15.679
I was saving what I feel is
the best for last actually because I

779
01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:20.800
love I looked at Glenn's stuff and
I love what he did, so uh

780
01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:22.960
and and again this is not a
guy. I mean, let let's let's

781
01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:27.480
just be very clear about this,
both Glenn and Steve. But you guys

782
01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:34.280
basically believe that Oswald acted alone.
Well, I don't consider it Oswald innocent.

783
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:37.800
No, that's correct, But you
know, if there was more to

784
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:42.239
it, well, you know,
I haven't studied enough to be honest to

785
01:03:43.039 --> 01:03:46.039
conclude that, but I don't regard
Oswald innocent. No, Okay, Oswald

786
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:50.599
is not innocent, Steve, though
you believe that basically Oswald acted alone?

787
01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:55.239
Or are you kind of of the
same mindset to Glenn is Well, Chuck,

788
01:03:55.519 --> 01:04:00.760
I believe he took the shots.
He did it. He that alone,

789
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:03.400
but there's a lot more of that
story to be told. But he

790
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:09.239
was up on that rifle only six
floor pull in that career, no doubt

791
01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:12.480
in my mind. Okay. So
I just wanted to make it very clear

792
01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:15.320
to the listener that I've got two
guys on that don't necessarily agree with me.

793
01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:19.760
I feel as though, just to
clarify my position that although this is

794
01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:25.239
not an innocent guy, I don't
think that he is the assassin. I

795
01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:28.800
simply don't after a study of the
evidence. But this is not the issue

796
01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:34.360
today, is it? Go right
ahead, Garma and I want to say

797
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:38.719
that to everyone listening, and we're
going to be respectful to each other,

798
01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:41.639
and that's what we're hoping will spread
to the rest of the community that just

799
01:04:41.719 --> 01:04:45.360
because we don't agree on things doesn't
mean we need to attack each other.

800
01:04:45.519 --> 01:04:51.079
That we can discuss things and may
get greater enlightenment through discussion. I very

801
01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:57.280
much agree to that. Karmai absolutely
right, exactly the point here, So

802
01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:01.239
Glenn, with deeps prodding, Yeah, I think it is time we get

803
01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:05.119
to you. And the reason is, of course that the ever after with

804
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:09.480
Judith is that everybody is after her. She had to go to Greece and

805
01:05:09.559 --> 01:05:14.920
then Hungary, and then she went
to Sweden seeking political asylum because she was

806
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:16.719
so much in danger to come to
the United States until it was time to

807
01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:21.840
do her book tours. But she
had to avoid coming to the United States

808
01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:27.119
and sought political asylum in Sweden,
and according to her blogs and things like

809
01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:31.159
that, she was granted political asylum
in Sweden because her life was in danger.

810
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:36.719
I think you could probably pick up
the story from there. Yeah,

811
01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:42.159
that's right, That's what she had
been saying for quite some time, as

812
01:05:42.199 --> 01:05:47.480
I understand it. You know,
it was by coincidence actually that I've been

813
01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:53.960
following sort of from a distance,
quite a few of the JFK forums at

814
01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:58.199
the time. This was back in
two thousand and eight, and all of

815
01:05:58.239 --> 01:06:03.840
a sudden, someone in mcadam's forum, the AAJ said that she had been

816
01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:09.559
granted asylum in Sweden. And you
know, I found this very peculiar because,

817
01:06:10.280 --> 01:06:17.400
as I'm sure you guys, get
political asylum in another Western country.

818
01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:25.000
Now a little bit simplified, you
can say that there are basically two reasons

819
01:06:25.039 --> 01:06:30.639
to get asylum. Either you come
from a war zone basically, or where

820
01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:34.400
there's been you know, like an
earthquake or something like that. Or the

821
01:06:34.519 --> 01:06:41.960
other situation would be that your country
where you're a citizen can't protect you for

822
01:06:42.119 --> 01:06:47.639
some reason, you know, either
that you threaten the state somehow or well,

823
01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:51.199
you know, something along these lines. And I mean, to prove

824
01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:56.320
any of this is very difficult,
right You would have to be a political

825
01:06:56.440 --> 01:07:00.480
dissident of some type, or to
prove that it would be too high hostile

826
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:03.960
for your own well being to remain
in the country of your origin, things

827
01:07:04.119 --> 01:07:09.039
like this, and it is especially
difficult. And I want to make sure

828
01:07:09.079 --> 01:07:14.239
we make this extremely clear that to
go to another Western type country and seek

829
01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:17.639
political asylum is much more difficult than
to say, come from the Middle East

830
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:23.280
and seek political asylum. Oh yeah, absolutely, you know, and you

831
01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:27.639
have to bring proof, you know, when making this, you petition a

832
01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:31.360
court, you know. And this
applies across the planet, although every single

833
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:35.280
country has its own sort of system
by which they do this. Now,

834
01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:43.119
why would this be a particular interest
to you is because why Glenn, Well,

835
01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:47.440
you know, I've been following the
jfk assassination ever since I was a

836
01:07:47.599 --> 01:07:53.039
child, basically, And you know, I do remember very clearly. I

837
01:07:53.199 --> 01:07:58.519
was nine years old when it happened, and my mother had a very very

838
01:07:58.599 --> 01:08:01.519
strange look in her face, told
me that the American president had been had

839
01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:06.000
been killed, and this was not
like her at all. So that made

840
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:13.320
an impression on me. And you
know, I did figure out, even

841
01:08:13.559 --> 01:08:16.960
though I was very young at the
time, that what's this, you know,

842
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:23.159
and why is my mother reacting this
way? And so that's that's basically

843
01:08:24.079 --> 01:08:28.079
where my interests started. And you
know, like ten eleven years later,

844
01:08:28.159 --> 01:08:31.720
I was an exchange student living in
California. This was in the mid seventies,

845
01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:38.920
and it happened to be the time
when heraudu showed that the Supruder film

846
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:43.359
for the first time, and that
really ignited the debate. So when I

847
01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:47.359
was an exchange student in California.
You know, I followed this and all

848
01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:51.319
these claims of starting a new investigation
and all of that, and eventually we

849
01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:58.159
got the HSCA. Of course,
so I have a long interest in the

850
01:08:58.279 --> 01:09:03.359
in the assassination, and I've been
fascinated like many others. And to start

851
01:09:03.399 --> 01:09:06.000
with, of course, I was
also convinced, you know, that there's

852
01:09:06.039 --> 01:09:12.399
got this gout has been a conspiracy. So that's where I started a long

853
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:15.880
long time ago, and these forums. When after the Internet came and all

854
01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:19.359
that, you know, I started
the following the debate more closely. And

855
01:09:21.399 --> 01:09:27.880
that's why I sort of noticed this
that she was supposed to be in Sweden,

856
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:32.119
and like I said, I I
could not believe that, you know,

857
01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:41.399
had she really proven that that she
had the correct reasons to be granted

858
01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:45.079
asylum. I found that very peculiar. So I decided to to have a

859
01:09:45.159 --> 01:09:50.800
look at this, and and it
took me about I believe two or three

860
01:09:50.840 --> 01:09:57.079
weeks, three weeks perhaps, you
know, to to do the research and

861
01:09:57.159 --> 01:10:00.920
to get the court decisions and to
talked to a few officials about it,

862
01:10:01.079 --> 01:10:06.319
and also to learn the fine print
of course about the asylum procedures. And

863
01:10:06.479 --> 01:10:14.680
once I've done that. I decided
to forward these decisions to John mccadams because

864
01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:18.279
I told him, you know,
I followed the debate in your forum,

865
01:10:18.439 --> 01:10:25.439
and these guys are wrong in so
much that they're saying. So I think

866
01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:30.920
this would take away a lot of
the uncertainties and give them some knowledge about

867
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:33.399
this. And I can tell you
that she has not been granted asylum in

868
01:10:33.560 --> 01:10:39.479
Sweden. In fact, she's been
denied twice. And that's the bottom line,

869
01:10:40.079 --> 01:10:45.239
and that's where it started, right
and the court decisions that you got

870
01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:46.760
your hands on, I mean,
what did they say as to why she

871
01:10:46.960 --> 01:10:51.960
was denied her political asylum because she
was under threat from her own government allegedly.

872
01:10:53.359 --> 01:10:58.399
What did it say about that procedure? Well, basically it said that,

873
01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:02.199
you know, she told them that
she had evidence of harassment, of

874
01:11:02.359 --> 01:11:08.560
threats and a lot of things,
and she never provided anything. And they

875
01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:13.560
stated this. But you know,
when you read between the lines, you

876
01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:17.720
can also, I mean, beyond
this the dry sort of judicial lingo,

877
01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:21.239
you can see that these guys didn't
believe her. It's as simple as that.

878
01:11:21.439 --> 01:11:26.560
You know, that's my interpretation.
And I've spoken to a lot of

879
01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:31.119
friends. I've got a couple of
friends who are are far more knowledgeable than

880
01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:35.760
judicial stuff than I am, and
you know they say the same thing basically,

881
01:11:38.600 --> 01:11:41.640
right, So what it is?
I have a question for you.

882
01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:43.840
I'm sorry, No, go ahead, y, go ahead, Jack.

883
01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:50.600
Yeah. I was wondering, you
know, in your okay, I was

884
01:11:50.680 --> 01:11:57.319
wondering if you, in your perusal
of the documents relating to her asylum claims,

885
01:11:57.439 --> 01:12:01.960
did they all get into whether they
believed true story of Lee Oswald or

886
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:09.560
not. No, not specifically,
I'd say, you know, they looking

887
01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:15.479
at her reasons to be granted asylum
if she sort of fulfills those requirements,

888
01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:21.800
and so there was no extensive discussion
about leos Wold. No, they're looking,

889
01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:26.840
you know, hardcore, does she
have the reason to be granted asylum

890
01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:31.439
or not? And that's what they
discussed. But it was not even though

891
01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:39.439
I'd say, you know, these
these decisions were perfectly or right, you

892
01:12:39.479 --> 01:12:45.159
know, they were perfectly they motivated
their findings and all that, But they

893
01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:50.279
didn't specify anything about Leoswell, I'd
say, but they did. Of course.

894
01:12:50.680 --> 01:12:56.239
Her deposition to them is in those
decisions, as you might have seen

895
01:12:56.319 --> 01:13:01.800
if you if you've downloaded the document
that I provided on the Facebook site,

896
01:13:03.479 --> 01:13:08.520
so you can see that there both
of these, both the migration board,

897
01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:12.319
which is the lower instance, and
then the migration court, which is where

898
01:13:12.399 --> 01:13:17.399
you do your appeal, said basically
the same thing about this. Yeah,

899
01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:21.920
basically, to put it in a
nutshell, what they found is that her

900
01:13:23.039 --> 01:13:28.479
claims had no basis. She presented
no evidence, which vaguely sounds familiar because

901
01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:31.079
it sounds very much like the way
we were just describing her book. A

902
01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:38.439
lot of claims without any evidence to
support it. Isn't that fascinating that that

903
01:13:38.600 --> 01:13:44.119
pattern prevails all the way into two
thousand and seven and eight. Yeah,

904
01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:49.640
this is true, and she wanted, actually she petitioned to be to get

905
01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:53.880
a verbal hearing, but they flatly
denied it, so, you know,

906
01:13:54.000 --> 01:13:57.720
and that tells me. And I've
discussed that with a couple of friends of

907
01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:00.319
mine and they agree, you know, they did not believe her story.

908
01:14:00.199 --> 01:14:04.079
There were too many holes in it. She had no evidence, no witnesses,

909
01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:09.680
and that's why they deny this.
And there was nothing that pointed to

910
01:14:09.800 --> 01:14:13.840
her not being able to return to
the United States, for instance, nothing

911
01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:17.640
that she had proven to them or
even slightly proven, you know, in

912
01:14:17.760 --> 01:14:25.920
any way indicated right. So,
the continuous story about not being able to

913
01:14:26.079 --> 01:14:30.439
appear in public or to be able
to take interviews or discuss things with people

914
01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:33.640
or directly interface with people, based
on the fact that she is under a

915
01:14:33.680 --> 01:14:40.479
constant threat and therefore is you know, requires a whole lot of security and

916
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:44.600
things in order to be able to
do stuff, because they really want her

917
01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:50.039
dead, because she has the great
truth to unveil to the public. All

918
01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:56.119
of these things. When challenged in
a court to seek political asylum in another

919
01:14:56.239 --> 01:15:00.640
country, you know, turn up
with just about the same out of evidence

920
01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:06.600
regarding her alleged relationship with Oswald,
her alleged relationship with the CIA, and

921
01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:12.119
all of these other interesting characters,
no evidence, lots of claims, but

922
01:15:12.359 --> 01:15:15.880
no evidence to verify it, to
bolster said claims in any way, shape

923
01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:19.520
or form. That's what comes up. And that's what I take away from

924
01:15:19.600 --> 01:15:24.600
mclenn. Yeah, and you're correct, that's a good description. Actually,

925
01:15:24.720 --> 01:15:30.439
yeah, And not only that basically, but what she said is more interesting,

926
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:32.760
you know, because this was at
mcadam's side. But a year and

927
01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:38.079
a half later, in the spring
of twenty ten, there was this infamous

928
01:15:38.279 --> 01:15:43.119
exile bed and that's where she said, you know that she had been escorted

929
01:15:43.239 --> 01:15:49.399
to Sweden by Swedish agents from Hungary
when she first arrived in Sweden for her

930
01:15:49.520 --> 01:15:56.119
protection. Now, I discussed this
with a couple of officials and they,

931
01:15:56.520 --> 01:16:00.800
you know, if I remember corrected, that's when one of them specifically ask

932
01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:08.159
me what's wrong with it? To
women? I'm sorry to laugh, it's

933
01:16:08.239 --> 01:16:11.439
just that. Do you know how
many times do you know how many times

934
01:16:11.479 --> 01:16:17.039
that Exton has come up to people
that discuss her with me privately effectively they

935
01:16:17.119 --> 01:16:19.439
you know where they say what's wrong? And I, you know, and

936
01:16:19.560 --> 01:16:24.239
I say always I'm not I'm not
a psychiatrist, so I can't tell you.

937
01:16:24.359 --> 01:16:28.960
But but the thing is, you
know, it does beg the question

938
01:16:29.239 --> 01:16:32.199
right to make a spectacle of yourself, to make all these claims where you

939
01:16:32.319 --> 01:16:35.800
have no sort of evidence, in
order to bolster them, to back them

940
01:16:35.840 --> 01:16:40.680
in any way, shape or form, To essentially say that my story is

941
01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:45.479
my story and therefore needs to be
believed on the basis of it itself.

942
01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:51.680
Well, what does that sound like
to any discerning listener? Faith? Yeah,

943
01:16:51.920 --> 01:16:56.479
yeah, yeah, no, And
I can tell you that that time

944
01:16:56.640 --> 01:17:00.199
back in twenty ten at the Education
Forum, that's the only thing time when

945
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:08.640
she's actually sort of answered a few
questions that I had and in a somewhat

946
01:17:08.720 --> 01:17:14.039
polite way. Uh, that's the
only time since then she's only described me

947
01:17:14.399 --> 01:17:17.439
and lied. She's she's one lie
after another. There's always a new one.

948
01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:23.000
She's posting this this stuff on her
own Facebook sites, and there are

949
01:17:23.079 --> 01:17:27.239
lots of lives, you know,
she's she's now telling them that I've been

950
01:17:27.720 --> 01:17:33.239
following her, that I've been visiting
at her at that migration center where she

951
01:17:33.319 --> 01:17:38.439
lived and all that, and poked
to her handlers live, which did not

952
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:41.640
happen. You know. I did
all the research from my home, from

953
01:17:41.720 --> 01:17:45.399
my computer and through the phone,
and that was it. And so she

954
01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:48.800
wants the discussion to be about me
as a researcher, not about her and

955
01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:55.159
her life. Because what do you
what do you do when you're when you're

956
01:17:55.199 --> 01:17:59.520
losing in the debate, is to
turn against the individual you're debating so that

957
01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:01.840
you don't have to deal with the
actual subject matter. Uh. This is

958
01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:08.359
a typical kind of way of doing
a dishonest debate, isn't it. Uh?

959
01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:13.479
And this is exactly what happens.
I'm far from the only one,

960
01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:16.520
you know, I was thinking what
what the Sachery said when you know,

961
01:18:16.720 --> 01:18:20.720
about an hour ago, Vick was
very kind words to her. You know

962
01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:25.720
that My thoughts when you said that, Sackery was that you just wait,

963
01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:30.039
if you continue to sort of insist
on your position versus her, you will

964
01:18:30.119 --> 01:18:34.720
find out, you know, the
nasty version of Judi Baker. Yeah.

965
01:18:36.239 --> 01:18:41.279
Oh yeah, we've We've gotten it. I'd just like to give her the

966
01:18:41.399 --> 01:18:43.680
I was just trying to give her
the benefit of the doubt. Really,

967
01:18:43.760 --> 01:18:47.640
I just wanted to be clear that
there's no hard doings, at least I

968
01:18:47.640 --> 01:18:51.079
don't. That's not that's not our
point. This isn't a personal attack.

969
01:18:51.199 --> 01:18:57.840
It's a professional attack. We're criticizing
her professional stance on this topic. Yeah,

970
01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:00.319
yeah, a that that's excellent.
You know, I do respect that,

971
01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:04.319
and I tried that for a long
time to no avail. She was

972
01:19:04.920 --> 01:19:11.720
attacking, attacking, attacking and lying, lying, lying. Well, that

973
01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:16.399
comes to point. Well, I
decided, actually before all this this turbulence,

974
01:19:16.479 --> 01:19:19.840
back in January February, you know, when you guys did all the

975
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:24.199
research and presented it and all that. Before then, I decided, you

976
01:19:24.279 --> 01:19:26.600
know, enough, it's enough.
Now I'm going to go after you know,

977
01:19:26.680 --> 01:19:29.960
I've had enough of this. Friends
of mine here in Sweden, you

978
01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:31.720
know, told me what they'd read
on the internet, and I checked it

979
01:19:31.840 --> 01:19:35.800
up and it was correct. You
know, she goes on lying about me

980
01:19:35.920 --> 01:19:39.279
on the internet, and I warned
her, you know, you've got to

981
01:19:39.319 --> 01:19:43.600
stop this stuff because now I'm going
to follow through, you know, and

982
01:19:44.079 --> 01:19:46.279
we'll see what happens. But you
know, I won't take that no longer.

983
01:19:46.359 --> 01:19:50.760
You know, I don't want her
people to mischaracterize what you're saying.

984
01:19:51.039 --> 01:19:54.399
And in my opinion, I don't
think any of us. You know,

985
01:19:54.520 --> 01:19:57.600
it can be called an attack,
but it's a debunking, is what's going

986
01:19:57.680 --> 01:20:00.640
on here. We're not attacking any
person. We're attacking anyone that tries to

987
01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:05.279
make up myths and interject it into
history because they're wasting our time, they're

988
01:20:05.319 --> 01:20:09.840
wasting everyone's time, and they're making
false leads that are going to put people

989
01:20:09.880 --> 01:20:13.560
off for years. Maybe that's why
we haven't solved the case yet, because

990
01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:18.119
there's so many people like her putting
out false leads. Yeah well, you

991
01:20:18.199 --> 01:20:21.079
know, yeah, but she's one
of a kind, and I think what

992
01:20:21.199 --> 01:20:28.239
she's doing is so outlandish that it's
beyond comprehension. You know, people can't

993
01:20:28.399 --> 01:20:32.000
I remember, you know, after
that first encounter on the AAJ side December

994
01:20:32.039 --> 01:20:36.840
of two thousand and eight. I
do remember when I was. I participated

995
01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:40.600
basically for a month or so,
and then I quit. You know,

996
01:20:40.880 --> 01:20:43.600
I had enough of these guys.
There were two or three of them that

997
01:20:43.720 --> 01:20:47.199
were attacking me quite viciously actually,
and so I had enough. But when

998
01:20:47.199 --> 01:20:50.199
I sat down and thought about this, you know, had I would have

999
01:20:50.279 --> 01:20:57.279
expected them to appreciate the fact that
I've gotten documents that told them with the

1000
01:20:57.359 --> 01:21:01.479
fact for it. But you know, her support did not appreciate that they

1001
01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:06.840
attacked me, right, and I
need to point out that Martin chack and

1002
01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:11.000
Ford was the exception, but there
were a couple of others. They attacked

1003
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:15.439
me pretty viciously. And when thought
about it, I couldn't believe this,

1004
01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:19.520
you know, because all I did
really was to provide documentation. Now,

1005
01:21:19.640 --> 01:21:24.560
how can how can they want to
be this vicious because of this? And

1006
01:21:24.760 --> 01:21:28.119
yet and yet at that point in
time, you know, back in December

1007
01:21:28.159 --> 01:21:31.680
of two thousand and eight, that
was nothing as compared to what was coming,

1008
01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:35.520
you know in twenty ten, in
March and April, you know,

1009
01:21:35.600 --> 01:21:40.439
when when Judith herself was there.
Now, that's when the real fun began.

1010
01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:44.399
You know, Oh my god,
I was a spy, I was

1011
01:21:44.439 --> 01:21:47.159
an asset and blah blah blah all
that, you know. And she yeah,

1012
01:21:47.199 --> 01:21:53.159
and she tried constantly to get the
discussion to be about me instead of

1013
01:21:53.239 --> 01:22:00.640
her. Well, yes, Steve, Yeah, that's why say something real

1014
01:22:00.720 --> 01:22:05.880
quick. What Glenn's telling me is
absolutely true. I mean, he's been

1015
01:22:05.960 --> 01:22:11.720
battling it a long time before you
guys jumped in, and he's got a

1016
01:22:11.840 --> 01:22:18.199
lot of experience with Barbara Jay and
everybody there. And that's why I just

1017
01:22:18.279 --> 01:22:21.479
kind of want to prod it along
and get it get it up there.

1018
01:22:21.640 --> 01:22:29.920
Because Glenn, what Glenn says is
absolutely true, I'll just shut up and

1019
01:22:30.039 --> 01:22:32.159
listen. Okay. Well, no, Steeve, I appreciate that. But

1020
01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:36.960
I'm telling you now that I was
trying to tell people in the early part

1021
01:22:38.079 --> 01:22:44.600
of this century, okay, like
in two and three, that this was

1022
01:22:44.720 --> 01:22:47.960
going to be a problem. Okay. I told them that they did not

1023
01:22:48.119 --> 01:22:53.279
take it seriously. And I mean
conspiracy authors whose names you would know,

1024
01:22:53.680 --> 01:22:57.560
Steve, that I sat down with
and said, guys, you need to

1025
01:22:57.640 --> 01:23:02.479
address this because you have the gravitas
to nick this in the bud. Now,

1026
01:23:03.119 --> 01:23:08.079
if you don't, it's going to
grow because this nonsense is going to

1027
01:23:08.199 --> 01:23:13.479
sound attractive, okay, and nobody
would take me seriously. I mean,

1028
01:23:13.600 --> 01:23:16.760
I have I have a lot of
emails and stuff saved, and I don't

1029
01:23:16.760 --> 01:23:21.279
disseminate my emails, but one day
I just might to show that I was

1030
01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:25.760
trying to tell all kinds of people
who thought that it wasn't even worthy of

1031
01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:31.520
response because it was so you know, so fictitious and ridiculous that listen,

1032
01:23:31.600 --> 01:23:34.479
I'm not going to take my time
to respond to that crap. I mean,

1033
01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:39.960
it took me, like I think, three or four years to convince

1034
01:23:40.079 --> 01:23:44.720
Walt Brown to co write that article
with me that we put in JFKD Politics

1035
01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:47.399
Quarterly, okay, which was titled, by the way, Judy Baker,

1036
01:23:47.960 --> 01:23:53.199
you know, fraud or fiction.
All right. It took me three or

1037
01:23:53.239 --> 01:23:57.640
four years to convince him to do
that, Okay. But before that,

1038
01:23:57.880 --> 01:24:01.239
I was complaining about this, and
I said, this is counterproductive to us.

1039
01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:10.119
No, no, no, we
need to just continue to Chucky good.

1040
01:24:10.119 --> 01:24:13.039
No, no, I'm sorry,
just good to know and Chuck and

1041
01:24:13.119 --> 01:24:19.039
I flawed that and yeah, I
think it's but go ahead, Glen,

1042
01:24:21.039 --> 01:24:25.760
No, no, I think I
think what she's doing is counter productive no

1043
01:24:25.920 --> 01:24:28.640
matter what side of this issue you
happen to be on. You know,

1044
01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:32.319
she wants to be she wants to
ride herself into US history, and in

1045
01:24:32.680 --> 01:24:36.640
my opinion, she has no place
there. No, she doesn't. You're

1046
01:24:36.760 --> 01:24:43.399
totally correct, very good. The
whole problem is that precisely that if she

1047
01:24:44.239 --> 01:24:47.159
I've told people before, she could
have been the JK. Rowling of historical

1048
01:24:47.239 --> 01:24:50.359
fiction. If she would have done
all this and just put fiction on her

1049
01:24:50.399 --> 01:24:56.680
book instead of nonfiction, she could
be rich, rich and famous and well

1050
01:24:56.720 --> 01:25:00.680
beyond all of us. But I
need, I need to say one thing

1051
01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:06.159
another thing here. You know one
person that of late has written quite a

1052
01:25:06.199 --> 01:25:10.640
lot of good stuff. That's Pamela
Brown. You know, Pamela Brown used

1053
01:25:10.640 --> 01:25:14.760
to be a quite ardent supporter of
Judas Baker for a long time, for

1054
01:25:14.880 --> 01:25:18.960
seven years, at least seven years, and she took a lot of beating

1055
01:25:19.079 --> 01:25:24.560
because of that from a lot of
researchers around. And of course, as

1056
01:25:24.600 --> 01:25:31.319
you may know, she is now
an enemy of Baker. Now, yeah,

1057
01:25:31.399 --> 01:25:34.239
so as Baker said, I mean, she's a pointer, an enemy.

1058
01:25:35.279 --> 01:25:39.920
But what she's and I think she
is basically spot on you should go

1059
01:25:40.039 --> 01:25:43.880
to her blog and finding Judith.
It's a very good blog and she has

1060
01:25:43.960 --> 01:25:51.720
some really interesting thoughts there about Judit
and she is an insider sort of anyway.

1061
01:25:51.880 --> 01:25:58.000
And what she says is that,
you know, everything now is about

1062
01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:01.560
This is about Judy. This is
not a JFK or Leofmoon or anybody.

1063
01:26:01.920 --> 01:26:05.960
This is about Judu Baker. She's
trying to make and you know, if

1064
01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:10.039
you look at her from a distance, if you look at what she's doing

1065
01:26:10.159 --> 01:26:14.680
now, being in book, seventy
Facebook groups and all that, everything is

1066
01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:18.199
about her. She's so controlling,
she wants to control everything. She's banning

1067
01:26:18.279 --> 01:26:23.399
people who doesn't believe her, she's
sensoring those who doesn't listen to her,

1068
01:26:23.880 --> 01:26:28.920
and all of this behavior, you
know, points exactly in the direction that

1069
01:26:29.479 --> 01:26:33.159
Pamela has written quite a lot about. And I think she's correct about this,

1070
01:26:33.359 --> 01:26:38.680
you know. I'd like to add
that also, people can go to

1071
01:26:38.840 --> 01:26:43.239
the Lone Gunman podcast with Rob Clark, the Punching Judy episode, which is

1072
01:26:43.279 --> 01:26:47.319
a play on Punching Judy, the
old play, the TV show and all

1073
01:26:47.359 --> 01:26:50.840
that stuff, the old presentation exactly, and I highly recommend it as well.

1074
01:26:51.319 --> 01:26:54.880
Rob Clark is a good guy who
would have joined us if we could

1075
01:26:54.920 --> 01:27:00.279
have tonight. But yes, absolutely
the Lone Gunman. And that name threw

1076
01:27:00.359 --> 01:27:02.720
me at first because I thought he
was just going to talk about how Oswald

1077
01:27:02.760 --> 01:27:05.359
did it, but you know,
he explained that to me, and of

1078
01:27:05.399 --> 01:27:11.079
course he's been our guest on the
show before, but definitely I recommend him

1079
01:27:11.079 --> 01:27:15.680
as well. So hey, Chuck, Yeah, let me just say one

1080
01:27:16.079 --> 01:27:20.840
little last statement here. And I
fought everybody here. I think we're all

1081
01:27:20.880 --> 01:27:30.119
in agreement here, right, Yep, he's a she's a she's a fraud.

1082
01:27:31.880 --> 01:27:36.279
And I just wanted to get Glenn's
story in there real quick. And

1083
01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:42.319
I'm sorry for interrupting there, but
but then my hat's off to you,

1084
01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:47.560
Chuck and your efforts and Zach and
Trish those are good, great people.

1085
01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:54.399
See remember this step. I'm interested
in the facts, the reality. I

1086
01:27:54.560 --> 01:27:58.359
believe that it has been hidden from
us. But it has not only been

1087
01:27:58.439 --> 01:28:01.880
hidden, I believe by the government, but even more so, it has

1088
01:28:01.960 --> 01:28:09.359
been diluted and absolutely dirtied up by
all of this poorly founded nonsense which has

1089
01:28:09.439 --> 01:28:13.880
been spread on my side of the
fence. And that's why I'm attacking that

1090
01:28:14.039 --> 01:28:16.680
stuff, because people keep complaining to
me, why aren't you attacking the Warren

1091
01:28:16.720 --> 01:28:21.159
Commission in your mythology show. Well, here's the problem. You may disagree

1092
01:28:21.239 --> 01:28:27.199
with the Warren Commission's conclusions, you
may disagree with their methodology in certain places,

1093
01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:31.359
and that is all right for debate, but it is not wholesale fiction

1094
01:28:32.199 --> 01:28:39.239
being created and then distributed to the
public as if it were the alternate reality

1095
01:28:39.720 --> 01:28:44.119
that you should be looking at.
So there you go. We can have

1096
01:28:44.239 --> 01:28:47.399
an honest debate about the historical record, we can have a debate about the

1097
01:28:47.479 --> 01:28:51.479
methodologies. We can have a debate
about these things, but we're going to

1098
01:28:51.560 --> 01:28:57.239
have to come correct with the science, with the actual documentation, with the

1099
01:28:57.359 --> 01:29:01.720
discussion of the individuals involved, what
they're a gal like that. But when

1100
01:29:01.760 --> 01:29:06.159
it comes to a story like hers
and many others that have been launched out

1101
01:29:06.239 --> 01:29:13.760
there into the universe of JFK mythology, okay, it is mostly a bunch

1102
01:29:13.800 --> 01:29:18.039
of hearsay and nonsense that causes people
to go down the wrong trail. I

1103
01:29:18.079 --> 01:29:25.399
would much sooner believe that Oswald alone
did this than I would believe any of

1104
01:29:25.520 --> 01:29:29.359
the universe of stuff that she just
put out. Okay, shut, May

1105
01:29:29.399 --> 01:29:34.479
I say something? Sure? Yeah, I'm not just speaking that at all,

1106
01:29:34.800 --> 01:29:43.720
and I think that you you know, are her. Her battle was

1107
01:29:43.920 --> 01:29:48.760
with the lone numbers before all this. But these people here today are carrying

1108
01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:55.960
the torch and they're doing a great
job, like yourself, Zach and Trish

1109
01:29:56.079 --> 01:30:02.920
and Combine Land and everybody's carrying the
tors exactly right. So, uh,

1110
01:30:04.159 --> 01:30:10.800
we just got to move forward here
and uh expose this fraud. But anyway

1111
01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:17.600
you can Uh, I lost my
training part here, But anyway you can

1112
01:30:19.199 --> 01:30:27.319
carry on with this conversation to until
fifty years from now. Actually, chuck,

1113
01:30:27.399 --> 01:30:32.760
because her, her supporters will always
believe the story. Oh yeah,

1114
01:30:33.039 --> 01:30:39.720
and everybody agree with that, Oh
definitely. Yeah. We're only gonna be

1115
01:30:39.720 --> 01:30:45.079
able to convince reasonable people, right
right, Yeah. Unfortunately the reality of

1116
01:30:45.159 --> 01:30:50.319
it. Yeah, unfortunately. I
think you're probably correct about that scene.

1117
01:30:53.239 --> 01:30:55.800
And it is a shame. I
really wish, I really wish they would

1118
01:30:55.840 --> 01:30:59.119
listen to opposing viewpoints. I see, you know a lot of people think

1119
01:30:59.199 --> 01:31:00.439
that if you argue with them,
it's a bad thing. It's not.

1120
01:31:00.600 --> 01:31:04.279
It's a good thing, because no
one's gonna know everything, and hearing an

1121
01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:08.439
opposing viewpoint might actually make you think
about something you wouldn't have thought of it

1122
01:31:08.479 --> 01:31:12.479
in the first place. M M. Well, let's just let's get this

1123
01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:16.760
straight right off the bat. Okay, there's low nutters the battle to her

1124
01:31:17.039 --> 01:31:23.439
way before and and Chuck, Chuck
did it for his credit. But this

1125
01:31:23.600 --> 01:31:28.239
not this not a low nutterer or
or conspiracy thing. Yeah, this is

1126
01:31:28.560 --> 01:31:35.600
a false story. And there when
we're just bowling down the simple little country

1127
01:31:35.720 --> 01:31:41.479
fact, right, I'll shut up
and go ahead. That was great.

1128
01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:45.239
No, that's that's fine, brother, Believe me. I'm and and again

1129
01:31:45.520 --> 01:31:50.680
I am interested in the historical reality. You know, the old the old

1130
01:31:50.720 --> 01:31:56.199
adage about letting the chips fall where
they may, and other people have have

1131
01:31:56.439 --> 01:31:59.640
utilized that for book titles and things
like that. I'm telling you right now,

1132
01:31:59.760 --> 01:32:01.560
that's what I want to see.
But I want the real chips to

1133
01:32:01.720 --> 01:32:10.600
fall, not the bull chips.
Looks like we got another caller. What

1134
01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:14.159
are your six six to one seven
area code? You are now on the

1135
01:32:14.239 --> 01:32:18.119
air. It's the hit man.
Guys. Hey man, what's going on?

1136
01:32:18.279 --> 01:32:28.079
Man? How are y'all doing?
I have to admit I haven't heard

1137
01:32:28.159 --> 01:32:30.479
the show tonight because I've been with
a family obligation, you know. But

1138
01:32:31.319 --> 01:32:34.159
I was just calling in to see
how things are going. Pretty good.

1139
01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:38.920
Glen's here, Steve's here, Zach's
here, Chuck's here, I'm here,

1140
01:32:39.199 --> 01:32:43.560
Trish is here. Everybody's here,
Yes, Steve Roge, Glenn Vickland,

1141
01:32:43.800 --> 01:32:49.079
Carmine Sabistano, Trish Fleming, excuse
me, Zachary Jendro and myself all on

1142
01:32:49.279 --> 01:32:54.520
the line, hit man. What
do you think of that? I'm uh,

1143
01:32:54.720 --> 01:32:57.479
I'm just honored to be uh,
to be able to talk to you

1144
01:32:57.600 --> 01:33:06.600
all, tremendous people who care about
using actual primary sources to uh really search

1145
01:33:06.680 --> 01:33:12.760
for the truth. And and I
think that's what's challenging right now is there's

1146
01:33:12.960 --> 01:33:17.960
there's people weaving stories out there that
are half truths with just enough truth that

1147
01:33:18.079 --> 01:33:25.079
the average person who doesn't dig deep
enough is going to buy into. Yeah,

1148
01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:35.119
matth No, very good man.
I Y, we want to congratsate

1149
01:33:35.239 --> 01:33:41.920
you, thank you. I'm that
one I've been sitting on for a while,

1150
01:33:42.039 --> 01:33:45.560
but it's dot It's felt good to
get it out there finally. Yeah,

1151
01:33:45.920 --> 01:33:53.880
well exposed the hell out of it. Man. Yea again, that's

1152
01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:59.960
big. That's deep, that's digging
deep, that's that's that's looking at multiple

1153
01:34:00.199 --> 01:34:03.720
sources and it doesn't add up.
The toy that's being woven does not add

1154
01:34:03.800 --> 01:34:10.800
up to what the primary sources demonstrate. Yeah, Matthew, Matthew, I

1155
01:34:10.840 --> 01:34:14.079
think that we should expect now is
a couple of days, two or three

1156
01:34:14.119 --> 01:34:17.119
days of silence from Judith Baker,
and after that you will see a mega

1157
01:34:17.199 --> 01:34:21.960
rants on all of our sites about
what you have written. That's what That's

1158
01:34:23.000 --> 01:34:27.640
what happened with Thornley. That's what
happened with thorn the article. It was

1159
01:34:27.840 --> 01:34:30.720
it was quieter for a few days
and then all of a sudden baboom.

1160
01:34:33.239 --> 01:34:36.680
You know, the nice part about
the Thornley article was there. You know,

1161
01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:41.760
Thornley is an interesting character that has
a biographer who is willing to come

1162
01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:45.119
out and take a stand. You
know. The thing with the Eric Rodgers

1163
01:34:45.279 --> 01:34:49.840
article that I put out today,
Eric Rodgers is not somebody who's going to

1164
01:34:49.920 --> 01:34:57.079
have a biographer. So it's just, uh, it's it's it's really uh,

1165
01:34:57.279 --> 01:35:00.720
it's really challenging when you've got people
who are dead and gone. I'm

1166
01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:06.119
actually right now I started it today. I'm looking through ancestry dot com to

1167
01:35:06.159 --> 01:35:11.159
see if I can track down any
Eric Rodgers relatives to see if they would

1168
01:35:11.199 --> 01:35:15.920
weigh in on this, but I
think I think a few of my friends

1169
01:35:15.960 --> 01:35:19.119
that are on the radio right now
know I've done that before us dancestry dot

1170
01:35:19.199 --> 01:35:24.640
com to try and help chase down
some leads. So it's always fun,

1171
01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:29.600
but so the world sometimes gets in
the way of my ability to really chase

1172
01:35:29.680 --> 01:35:35.680
down things. So that's the way
it goes. Absolutely. But one other

1173
01:35:35.760 --> 01:35:41.279
person on the line that I did
not mention is Dylan Wade. Dylan,

1174
01:35:41.680 --> 01:35:43.960
how are you doing tonight? Are
you listening to all this? And what

1175
01:35:44.039 --> 01:35:48.960
do you think? Yeah, I'm
listening and it's really funny. Actually,

1176
01:35:50.199 --> 01:35:56.760
well, you know, and you
were somebody who was among the uninitiated regarding

1177
01:35:56.880 --> 01:36:00.640
the JFK case. You had sort
of just a cursory now it's based on

1178
01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:03.560
things you had sought on the internet, et cetera. Right, and you

1179
01:36:03.640 --> 01:36:09.600
were introduced to the Judith very Baker
story. What are your thoughts at this

1180
01:36:09.760 --> 01:36:14.920
point in time concerning concerning Judith and
all the stuff that we're saying. I

1181
01:36:15.000 --> 01:36:17.439
mean, are we just are we
just terrible people that don't want to believe

1182
01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:25.000
this poor old woman? Or what
the ad experience I really have with them

1183
01:36:25.960 --> 01:36:31.520
with her is through her supporters.
That's usually the case, then they're nuts.

1184
01:36:34.640 --> 01:36:42.520
There you go. I didn't take
very long. I also remind the

1185
01:36:42.640 --> 01:36:46.119
audience that Dylan is sixteen, so
some of her supporters had some catching up

1186
01:36:46.159 --> 01:36:54.880
to do. Yes, there you
go. I barely questioned their story and

1187
01:36:54.960 --> 01:36:59.840
they already started attacking me. Yeah, there you go. There you go.

1188
01:37:00.399 --> 01:37:04.520
You're a good company just for knowing
you guys. You know, we

1189
01:37:04.560 --> 01:37:08.399
could actually start a club of people
who have been attacked by you, the

1190
01:37:08.560 --> 01:37:13.239
very Baker supporters. Did you did
my name to to them? Dylan?

1191
01:37:13.359 --> 01:37:16.680
Did you ever mention my name?
No? Oh, you were. You

1192
01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:21.079
were on with them with me,
remember, Oh you mean those those people

1193
01:37:21.119 --> 01:37:26.680
that run that station. Yeah,
those guys, they went after me bad

1194
01:37:27.039 --> 01:37:30.640
when they interrupted my show to do
an ad for her. Yeah, that

1195
01:37:30.840 --> 01:37:33.720
was pretty funny. He was doing
a radio show and they didn't. And

1196
01:37:33.920 --> 01:37:38.880
there are more ads on their radio
station for her than there are for them.

1197
01:37:39.840 --> 01:37:44.199
Uh, and it's pretty funny.
They they heard me, which is

1198
01:37:44.279 --> 01:37:46.119
kind of hysterical because they had no
idea who I was. They heard me,

1199
01:37:46.359 --> 01:37:49.560
you know, going through different aspects
of the case, realized that I

1200
01:37:49.680 --> 01:37:54.760
was somebody was valuable in that way, and uh and and wanted to uh

1201
01:37:54.920 --> 01:37:59.159
wanted to somehow interject the Judith Barry
Baker thing into it. And what happened.

1202
01:37:59.199 --> 01:38:04.399
I dropped off your show. Well
I did shortly after because they took

1203
01:38:04.479 --> 01:38:11.479
over. Yes, that's the reaction. He's shut down. You know,

1204
01:38:11.640 --> 01:38:14.880
somebody who might actually be knowledgeable in
the case, you know things like that.

1205
01:38:16.119 --> 01:38:23.560
Yes, anyway, just another Saturday
night. Yes, just another Saturday

1206
01:38:23.600 --> 01:38:26.119
night. Believe this or not.
We're down to the last twenty minutes,

1207
01:38:26.479 --> 01:38:29.800
Steve, you wanted to say something, Oh wow, Yeah, I would

1208
01:38:29.880 --> 01:38:34.159
like to let the hit man talk
a little bit about his reach an article,

1209
01:38:34.960 --> 01:38:38.439
you know what, so would I
I wanted to get because you mentioned

1210
01:38:38.479 --> 01:38:42.079
it. I wanted you to give
everybody the name of the article where they

1211
01:38:42.119 --> 01:38:45.039
can find it and kind of a
quick explanation of sort of what it's about

1212
01:38:45.079 --> 01:38:47.880
as a teaser. If you could
hit man, that would be great.

1213
01:38:49.319 --> 01:38:56.439
Basically, what what I started doing
is I started a few months ago looking

1214
01:38:56.640 --> 01:39:00.039
chapter by chapter at the book me
and Lee, looking to see if the

1215
01:39:00.239 --> 01:39:05.600
historical primary sources backed up what was
being said. And in the midst of

1216
01:39:05.720 --> 01:39:14.439
my thorny work, Judith on one
of the Facebook groups started posting about Eric

1217
01:39:14.560 --> 01:39:19.039
Rodgers, which is indeed in her
sinner book, but she posted as I

1218
01:39:19.159 --> 01:39:27.560
cited in my article today basically her
to summarize that she's saying that Eric Rodgers

1219
01:39:27.760 --> 01:39:33.079
was a front person for Lee,
that Lee was paying Leaf for the rent

1220
01:39:33.199 --> 01:39:39.520
for for nine oh seven magazine Street
and he used him so that he could

1221
01:39:39.560 --> 01:39:43.840
do his leaf with distribution and protect
his family. And what I found in

1222
01:39:43.920 --> 01:39:50.720
my research is that Lee Lee had
no need for an Eric Rodgers. He

1223
01:39:51.079 --> 01:39:56.600
had leaf with stamped with the correct
address. He had leaf with stamped with

1224
01:39:56.760 --> 01:39:59.840
four, nine oh five, he
had leaf with stamp with four and I

1225
01:40:00.079 --> 01:40:04.039
know seven. He had begun his
leaflet distribution a month prior to Eric Rodgers

1226
01:40:04.159 --> 01:40:12.079
arriving. He was using the name
Alec Haidel on some of them, so

1227
01:40:12.319 --> 01:40:16.039
they're really and then and then the
best part was the post office boxes.

1228
01:40:16.680 --> 01:40:20.000
He had the wrong post office box
on the leaflet, so there was really

1229
01:40:20.079 --> 01:40:25.319
no way to trace it to the
place where he was residing. He had

1230
01:40:25.399 --> 01:40:31.079
no need for Eric Rodgers. And
when you look at the amount of evidence,

1231
01:40:31.319 --> 01:40:36.560
it just doesn't support you know that
this this uh, this this man

1232
01:40:36.760 --> 01:40:43.399
Eric Rodgers was anything other than a
man collecting a pension, renting an apartment

1233
01:40:43.479 --> 01:40:48.520
that happened to be used by Lee
used the mailbox originally because nobody resided there,

1234
01:40:49.119 --> 01:40:51.760
and when you look at four nine
you know, that whole complex of

1235
01:40:51.880 --> 01:40:58.000
the magazine street that it's really interesting
there there there was one FBI report that

1236
01:40:58.079 --> 01:41:01.560
I found that indicated there was a
fourth apartment that used the address for four

1237
01:41:01.640 --> 01:41:04.600
nine oh five. So it made
very well have been very logical that we

1238
01:41:04.720 --> 01:41:10.319
didn't want any male going to four
nine five because the middle box was shared.

1239
01:41:11.560 --> 01:41:15.119
Yeah, that's that's it. It's
it's you know, even doctor her

1240
01:41:15.239 --> 01:41:18.720
claims the power, the best part
was the she claimed that the power was

1241
01:41:18.800 --> 01:41:26.560
on and that she had defrosted the
refrigerator, the freezer. Do you know,

1242
01:41:26.920 --> 01:41:29.960
do you know what the root of
that problem is why she has to

1243
01:41:30.000 --> 01:41:33.239
give all these wild explanations to that
is because she made a claim about a

1244
01:41:33.319 --> 01:41:39.920
particular part of her timeline some years
ago, relating to Lee utilizing this other

1245
01:41:40.000 --> 01:41:45.640
apartment as a fictitious address to avoid
male get in the hands of Marina.

1246
01:41:45.319 --> 01:41:50.720
Okay, now, when she said
that the problem was that somebody decided to

1247
01:41:50.840 --> 01:41:56.079
go and get themselves records of the
you know, the utility bills, and

1248
01:41:56.399 --> 01:42:00.079
because it did not comport with her
explanation. Okay, she has now had

1249
01:42:00.119 --> 01:42:05.640
to create this whole sub universe of
explanations for what went on there because it

1250
01:42:05.720 --> 01:42:10.479
didn't work with her story when somebody
actually checked, you know, documentation,

1251
01:42:11.199 --> 01:42:16.199
and it still doesn't work. And
still her new explanation is still no good.

1252
01:42:16.960 --> 01:42:21.560
That's the funny part here. But
that's what she's doing all the time.

1253
01:42:21.600 --> 01:42:26.960
You know. She she's caught with
one lie, and she never backs

1254
01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:29.840
down. Instead, she goes the
other way. You know, there comes

1255
01:42:29.880 --> 01:42:32.840
another lie, and a third one
on the fourth one to the ridiculous,

1256
01:42:32.920 --> 01:42:36.319
you know. And Matthew, when
I read you, I read your paper

1257
01:42:36.479 --> 01:42:41.439
this afternoon, and you know,
very good solid research there. And what

1258
01:42:41.600 --> 01:42:47.720
struck me again was that she's using
you know, actual details like the street

1259
01:42:47.840 --> 01:42:54.640
numbers and the apartment and all that, and she's twisting the facts with existing

1260
01:42:55.520 --> 01:43:00.279
things basically thinks that are verifiably there
that you can check and yeah, those

1261
01:43:00.319 --> 01:43:02.000
are there, but she's fristling them, you know, so that you have

1262
01:43:02.159 --> 01:43:06.039
to dig deep to find this.
And one thing, I'm just going to

1263
01:43:06.119 --> 01:43:11.199
mention a little detail, well,
she said, and she's still saying sometimes,

1264
01:43:11.279 --> 01:43:15.920
you know that when she first came
to Sweden, she was she was

1265
01:43:15.039 --> 01:43:19.079
grownted asylum for ten months, and
she's I don't think she's using the word

1266
01:43:19.159 --> 01:43:23.800
granted, but she's now calling it, you know, being in the asylum

1267
01:43:23.880 --> 01:43:27.159
system. And what she did a
long time ago. I believe that the

1268
01:43:27.239 --> 01:43:30.319
first time was on the Education Forum, she provided a picture of herself on

1269
01:43:30.439 --> 01:43:34.479
an ID card and she said,
well, I came to Sweden and I

1270
01:43:34.640 --> 01:43:39.359
was I was grown to the asylum
for for ten months. And look at

1271
01:43:39.399 --> 01:43:42.760
this ID card. You can see
when when it's issued, and you know

1272
01:43:44.439 --> 01:43:47.960
so and normally you don't get ten
ten months. And but but you know,

1273
01:43:48.039 --> 01:43:51.920
when I check this up, it
turns out that those ID cards are

1274
01:43:53.079 --> 01:43:59.159
issued only for a duration of three, four or six months. So what

1275
01:43:59.359 --> 01:44:02.000
happened in real other people was that
she was issued one, probably for three

1276
01:44:02.079 --> 01:44:06.239
months, and then during that time
she got a negative decision, and then

1277
01:44:06.319 --> 01:44:10.920
she appealed and then she got a
second one. So what she was showing

1278
01:44:11.000 --> 01:44:15.520
on that picture was one out of
two. But she's not telling anybody because

1279
01:44:15.560 --> 01:44:21.560
she wanted to look more sort of
trustworthy in conjuncture with what she said previously.

1280
01:44:23.239 --> 01:44:26.680
But but Glenn, you're letting situational
reality get in the way of her

1281
01:44:26.760 --> 01:44:34.960
story of what you're letting the reality
of the situation getting away. Yeah,

1282
01:44:35.760 --> 01:44:46.399
I'm sorry, I'm sorry this time. No, but that, but that

1283
01:44:46.520 --> 01:44:50.079
struck me when I read Matthew's paper
this afternoon. You know, it's exactly

1284
01:44:50.119 --> 01:44:54.359
you can you can see the patterns, they're all there. But time and

1285
01:44:54.680 --> 01:45:00.600
again, there's just enough truth.
I'm sorry, it's just it's just enough

1286
01:45:00.720 --> 01:45:04.439
truth that if you don't dig deep, you're gonna miss thing. Like Evans,

1287
01:45:05.239 --> 01:45:10.159
the woman who was with Oswald that
day, she explained in her testimony

1288
01:45:10.239 --> 01:45:14.920
that she had Lee give missus Gardner
the money to turn on the power well

1289
01:45:15.520 --> 01:45:18.079
because there was no power on,
there was no refrigerator to defrost. But

1290
01:45:18.159 --> 01:45:24.439
if you don't sit down and read
the testimonies, you're not gonna catch the

1291
01:45:24.520 --> 01:45:29.119
little white the little you know,
the details. It's in the details that

1292
01:45:30.079 --> 01:45:32.600
you know. If you if you
just cursorly read, you're gonna go,

1293
01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:35.439
oh, yeah, there's enough fact
here. It sounds credible. But when

1294
01:45:35.479 --> 01:45:40.239
you really dig, when you really
look at what people are saying in the

1295
01:45:40.359 --> 01:45:45.359
testimony and the historical records, it
just doesn't add up right. And no

1296
01:45:45.560 --> 01:45:49.600
matter what the position of the author
is, I'm telling the listener right now,

1297
01:45:50.279 --> 01:45:58.000
don't necessarily take every characterization we've made
about this or any other subject to

1298
01:45:58.239 --> 01:46:05.239
heart and just accept it. Look
for your self. Always examine the extraordinary

1299
01:46:05.359 --> 01:46:12.880
complaints. The extraordinary claims require extraordinary
research, and yes, Trish, go

1300
01:46:12.920 --> 01:46:17.640
ahead. I actually have two examples
that I'd like to point out on this

1301
01:46:17.840 --> 01:46:24.039
topic. One of them was a
statement from John Russell Rochelle, who is

1302
01:46:24.600 --> 01:46:29.680
part of the Department of Labor,
who actually interviewed Oswald on April twenty six,

1303
01:46:29.840 --> 01:46:33.079
and according to his affiday that he
testifies or excuse me, states that

1304
01:46:33.279 --> 01:46:36.039
Lee was wearing a suit and tie
that day and was very presentable, etc.

1305
01:46:36.279 --> 01:46:40.600
Etc. This is the same day
that she apparently met him at the

1306
01:46:40.640 --> 01:46:45.199
post office and in Look she describes
him wearing a khaki shirt. Now for

1307
01:46:45.319 --> 01:46:48.119
someone who doesn't drive, and according
to her story again his stuff is in

1308
01:46:48.199 --> 01:46:51.199
storage at the bus depot and so
on and so forth. That's a lot

1309
01:46:51.279 --> 01:46:56.560
of commuting to go around and change
out fit's living out of a locker at

1310
01:46:56.640 --> 01:47:00.119
the bus depot, and to be
able to switch clothes so quickly between the

1311
01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:03.920
two appointments. I'm using an appointment
obviously as a very loose term Another thing

1312
01:47:04.000 --> 01:47:08.560
that's really interesting is, like Steve
was saying, if you read the testimony,

1313
01:47:09.439 --> 01:47:15.079
Lourene, excuse me, Lillian Rhett
had testified that Oswald had sat at

1314
01:47:15.119 --> 01:47:18.039
the table and was going through the
phone book looking for Oswald's relatives, anybody

1315
01:47:18.119 --> 01:47:21.800
with the name Oswald. But in
her book, on two separate pages one

1316
01:47:23.279 --> 01:47:26.800
six and one sixty three, she
actually states that Duttz is the one that

1317
01:47:26.840 --> 01:47:30.039
gave him the list of the relatives
for him to go see. And if

1318
01:47:30.079 --> 01:47:32.720
you read Duts's testimony, it really
sounds like he, for lack of a

1319
01:47:32.800 --> 01:47:36.479
better word, really didn't care for
Lee very much and wasn't really eager to

1320
01:47:36.560 --> 01:47:41.520
help him out. And this goes
full circle to a two hundred dollars loan

1321
01:47:42.079 --> 01:47:47.319
that Lee had mentioned in Warren Commission
Exhibits sixty nine dash A. But he's

1322
01:47:47.359 --> 01:47:53.199
saying she's saying that it was a
payment for him doing illegal runs to mobsters.

1323
01:47:53.239 --> 01:47:57.199
So again, there's just so much
conflicting evidence. When you're reading the

1324
01:47:57.359 --> 01:48:02.520
actual testimony from firsthand sources to what
she's claiming, it's just it clashes,

1325
01:48:02.760 --> 01:48:05.600
right. That's basically where her you
know, where a lot of this falls

1326
01:48:05.640 --> 01:48:11.960
apart is, you know, bet
when you compare what the historical record states

1327
01:48:12.119 --> 01:48:15.039
compared to what she's saying, and
what it boils down to is who do

1328
01:48:15.159 --> 01:48:19.720
you believe? Is there's a matter
of credibility. Do you believe the people

1329
01:48:19.800 --> 01:48:24.640
that were there and saw this stuff
with their own eyes and as Trisha said,

1330
01:48:24.720 --> 01:48:29.520
testified under oh, or do you
believe someone that evidently has a profit

1331
01:48:29.680 --> 01:48:33.399
motive involved? Yeah? Yeah,
and who he is a proven liar.

1332
01:48:35.600 --> 01:48:41.760
I won't go that. Yeah,
that's exactly Yeah. Well, I mean,

1333
01:48:41.840 --> 01:48:45.319
and as David writes, this is
pointed out to us on his website,

1334
01:48:45.319 --> 01:48:50.079
there's over one hundred and fifty times
where she's been inconsistent with her not

1335
01:48:50.319 --> 01:48:54.279
just the story of her and Lee, but just all of the stories that

1336
01:48:54.359 --> 01:48:58.520
have come up since her trying to
patch up all these holes. And I

1337
01:48:58.600 --> 01:49:01.239
mean, if she's telling the true
and was being consistent with their story,

1338
01:49:01.279 --> 01:49:08.560
there wouldn't be whole one two patch. Yeah. Yeah, And all you

1339
01:49:08.640 --> 01:49:10.920
have to do is have a look
at the list of people, because it's

1340
01:49:10.960 --> 01:49:14.000
reaches. It's all of us,
that's seven, it's Chuck that's eight.

1341
01:49:14.199 --> 01:49:18.439
There are dozens and dozens of credible
researchers who use primary evidence, who are

1342
01:49:18.479 --> 01:49:24.000
saying no, it doesn't work.
None of it works. It's it's small

1343
01:49:24.119 --> 01:49:31.319
injections of fact into a largely mythical
tale, like all mints. I just

1344
01:49:31.399 --> 01:49:35.119
want to say thank you, Trish, very good thing you did this afternoon

1345
01:49:35.199 --> 01:49:42.359
by providing Barb's excellent little piece there
on, which is another good account.

1346
01:49:42.760 --> 01:49:47.600
Definitely absolutely deserves to be looked at. That's a very important article, and

1347
01:49:47.680 --> 01:49:50.960
I really do people take the time
to look at that, because Barb definitely

1348
01:49:51.000 --> 01:49:56.399
needs a tip of the hat for
that article. Yes, and there's no

1349
01:49:56.640 --> 01:49:59.880
way around it there. You know, it's not a question of a mistake.

1350
01:50:00.359 --> 01:50:03.319
It's not a question of wrong year
or something. She was making the

1351
01:50:03.399 --> 01:50:09.760
story up period, right, you
know, that's where all the facts point

1352
01:50:09.840 --> 01:50:13.319
to. So what else can we
do but follow all the evidence and what

1353
01:50:13.439 --> 01:50:16.079
it says. I mean, that's
that's what needs to happen. Like I

1354
01:50:16.119 --> 01:50:18.800
said, across the community. I
would also be remiss if I didn't mention

1355
01:50:18.920 --> 01:50:26.760
that another researcher, Chris Simodent,
sent me a little fact on what the

1356
01:50:27.039 --> 01:50:30.600
type of argument Fetzer and Baker use. It's called the Gish gallop technique.

1357
01:50:30.119 --> 01:50:45.560
That's it, the Gish gallop.
I want to copy of that iss Well,

1358
01:50:45.920 --> 01:50:51.199
well, yeah, in a way, but the gish gallop is used

1359
01:50:51.640 --> 01:50:55.319
to basically, like like Chuck was
saying, you throw so much mud at

1360
01:50:55.359 --> 01:50:59.159
them that there's no way to counter
it. You just overwhelmed them with my

1361
01:50:59.399 --> 01:51:01.920
mythical eye ideas so that there's no
way they'll have the time to come back

1362
01:51:01.960 --> 01:51:04.960
at you, and then you criticize
them for not being able to do it

1363
01:51:05.000 --> 01:51:12.880
because no humans could. So like
Jim eu Genial, there's a lot of

1364
01:51:12.920 --> 01:51:16.159
people I would say that fall under
use of the gift gallop on both sides.

1365
01:51:17.319 --> 01:51:24.439
Yes, so now we know what
to call it, at least,

1366
01:51:24.800 --> 01:51:30.479
thank you, the gallop, dish
gallop yep. Yeah, and yeah,

1367
01:51:30.520 --> 01:51:33.359
once it gets into like just so
many things you can't do, you're just

1368
01:51:33.720 --> 01:51:39.840
okay, you're using the gift gallop. I'll see. Yeah, it would

1369
01:51:39.880 --> 01:51:47.479
save a lot of time, no
kidding. Yeah, I'm trying to trying

1370
01:51:47.520 --> 01:51:50.319
to relate these arts. I'm being
requested, like where's the links to the

1371
01:51:50.439 --> 01:51:53.840
articles and all this other stuff.
I'm trying to get them for people.

1372
01:51:54.520 --> 01:51:59.880
Uh, and we are down to
the last six seven minutes here, So

1373
01:52:00.479 --> 01:52:01.840
I just want to let you guys
know that believe it or not that was

1374
01:52:01.920 --> 01:52:06.640
only two hours. We could probably
do this all night. It feels like

1375
01:52:06.760 --> 01:52:12.359
twenty minutes. Yeah, yeah it
does. But this could be done,

1376
01:52:12.560 --> 01:52:16.000
I'm telling you all night, you
know. And in fact, let's give

1377
01:52:16.079 --> 01:52:19.520
people a feel for that real quick. And I think everybody on the line

1378
01:52:19.520 --> 01:52:26.520
will appreciate this. I want to
play a little game. It is called

1379
01:52:27.199 --> 01:52:31.439
the select a page game for the
Judithbury Baker myth. It works like this,

1380
01:52:31.880 --> 01:52:39.239
Pick a number anywhere between fifty and
five hundred and forty nine, and

1381
01:52:39.640 --> 01:52:43.760
what will happen is Carmine will select
a page out of the Judith Very Baker

1382
01:52:43.840 --> 01:52:51.560
book me and Lee and we will
debunk it. No what page you pick,

1383
01:52:53.159 --> 01:52:58.000
there will be something unproven on it. I contend, yes, absolutely,

1384
01:52:58.159 --> 01:53:01.920
How about this? Why don't we
let either Steve or Steve? I

1385
01:53:01.960 --> 01:53:06.079
would like Steve to pick a number
because I'm guessing that he would have less

1386
01:53:06.119 --> 01:53:13.119
familiar aric with the script. Whoop, I think some of her minions are

1387
01:53:13.119 --> 01:53:16.600
trying to cut in. Yeah,
could big Steve? Would you like,

1388
01:53:16.720 --> 01:53:20.439
I don't know, would you like
to select a page and and see what

1389
01:53:20.560 --> 01:53:27.359
happened? Yeah? Go to that
page, Okay, fifty and five page

1390
01:53:29.079 --> 01:53:33.560
age two forty nine. What magic
are we going to find here? Hmm

1391
01:53:34.279 --> 01:53:40.880
to forty nine. Well, right
off the bat, she refers to the

1392
01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:44.479
Jack Ruby as Sparky, and that's
been kind of de bunk that he didn't

1393
01:53:44.520 --> 01:53:46.359
go by Sparky during that time.
No, it made him mad, so

1394
01:53:46.479 --> 01:53:50.239
mad that he'd get into a fight
about it, she says. The other

1395
01:53:50.279 --> 01:53:56.039
people in my life quick, she
says, Doctor Sherman had not bothered a

1396
01:53:56.119 --> 01:54:00.039
compact that awkward incident at Dave's party. Well, the party in which she

1397
01:54:00.119 --> 01:54:04.680
states that Jack Martin, David Ferry, le Oswald, none of that has

1398
01:54:04.720 --> 01:54:09.199
ever proven to have happened. Not
a single one of those men ever mentioned

1399
01:54:09.239 --> 01:54:13.560
that occurring. Mary Sherman never mentioned
Meetia in him there. And why would

1400
01:54:13.600 --> 01:54:16.399
Mary Sherman, a respected doctor,
ever go to a flophouse, which when

1401
01:54:16.399 --> 01:54:19.800
people say there were Serman's done there, it's totally hilarious because you need a

1402
01:54:19.840 --> 01:54:25.000
secure and sterile environment that you can't
have with a bunch of rack ages around.

1403
01:54:25.399 --> 01:54:35.199
Sorry, no problem, was my
pleasure. We can play this game

1404
01:54:35.279 --> 01:54:41.880
at least another four hundred and ninety
nine times. Yeah, well i'll sixty

1405
01:54:41.960 --> 01:54:45.079
seven, sure you want, Oh
you want three sixty seven? Dylan.

1406
01:54:45.319 --> 01:54:47.840
Oh, we're gonna go fast.
We only got so much time left through

1407
01:54:47.880 --> 01:54:50.319
sixty seven, only got a few
minutes. But go ahead, go ahead,

1408
01:54:50.359 --> 01:54:56.279
let's try it three sixty seven.
Zach determined too, man, I'm

1409
01:54:56.319 --> 01:55:01.920
determined to find one that Carmin can
debunk. Just listen. I don't have

1410
01:55:02.079 --> 01:55:10.159
that much time on the air,
brother, please okay? Uh table content

1411
01:55:12.720 --> 01:55:15.239
nice? Uh yeah, it's the
passport. It's it's actually one of the

1412
01:55:15.439 --> 01:55:17.960
one of her Yeah. Oh well, no, you know what, I'll

1413
01:55:18.039 --> 01:55:21.760
use one of her sources and I'll
debunk with that by purchasing fruit and selling

1414
01:55:21.800 --> 01:55:25.680
it to ships along the docks,
lease set up a temporary reputation of the

1415
01:55:25.720 --> 01:55:29.520
fruit seller that has no proof that
that ever happened. Where did he get

1416
01:55:29.560 --> 01:55:33.000
the money to do this side fruit
business that no one ever saw, including

1417
01:55:33.119 --> 01:55:41.119
Marina? Does she say what doc
it was on? No, of course,

1418
01:55:41.239 --> 01:55:46.079
no specific. Why would be specific. That's how sheally got bananas at

1419
01:55:46.119 --> 01:55:49.680
lunchtime every day though, according to
Juds Baker, Yeah, why is this

1420
01:55:49.920 --> 01:55:55.520
relevant? Oh no, we're just
selecting a page at random, and now

1421
01:55:55.880 --> 01:56:00.279
why did she include it? Listen? If you want one of us to

1422
01:56:00.319 --> 01:56:06.399
climb into her mind, if on
this call to climb into her mind and

1423
01:56:06.640 --> 01:56:12.159
explain her thought process regarding all this
stuff. I might have to listen to

1424
01:56:12.199 --> 01:56:16.840
Harry Chapin later thirty Pounds of Bananas
or some other psychic driving tape besides the

1425
01:56:16.960 --> 01:56:25.079
five hour interview that we punished itself
endured, endured even a better word,

1426
01:56:25.800 --> 01:56:29.199
listen. I want to before we
run out of time. I want to

1427
01:56:29.239 --> 01:56:31.600
thank Hi Man, I want to
thank Stephen Rowe. I definitely want to

1428
01:56:31.640 --> 01:56:35.560
thank Glenn Bickland, who I really
appreciate the work you did, Sir,

1429
01:56:35.800 --> 01:56:42.079
I'm telling you I love it.
Uh you know, Trish, Uh yes,

1430
01:56:42.199 --> 01:56:47.119
Tris you guys, Trish Fleming,
Zach Jendro, Carmeline Salvastano, Dylan

1431
01:56:47.239 --> 01:56:51.239
Wade, everybody who decided to join
in, Everybody who's listening, I do

1432
01:56:51.399 --> 01:56:56.359
appreciate it all. You have been
listening to the third episode, and there's

1433
01:56:56.439 --> 01:57:00.760
going to be more of JFK Assassination
Myths exos. This was the Judith very

1434
01:57:00.800 --> 01:57:06.319
Baker Special. And if you're talking
further on down the line, I join

1435
01:57:06.399 --> 01:57:11.399
And I'd like to say one thing
to those who after all of this,

1436
01:57:12.119 --> 01:57:16.520
after all of our articles and all
the verified dozens of pieces of verifiable evidence

1437
01:57:16.760 --> 01:57:21.399
after the me and League game we
just played. If you still believe her,

1438
01:57:23.800 --> 01:57:36.279
you deserve her. Nice. Wow, I didn't mean to silence everybody.

1439
01:57:40.319 --> 01:57:45.800
I was speakers went dead. I
think we're letting this set We're letting

1440
01:57:45.840 --> 01:57:49.239
that set in in a few Oh, I don't know a dozen people's minds.

1441
01:57:49.560 --> 01:57:55.560
I couldn't put it any better than
you just did it. It was

1442
01:57:55.600 --> 01:57:59.560
a good it was a good ending. Yeah, absolutely, And the bumper

1443
01:57:59.600 --> 01:58:01.800
is gonna again and we're gonna go
off the air and then it'll be time

1444
01:58:01.840 --> 01:58:04.640
for the Jaded Show, which I
want everybody to stay tuned for on ucy

1445
01:58:04.760 --> 01:58:08.479
dot tv. And also, if
you are finding this further run down the

1446
01:58:08.520 --> 01:58:11.960
line, you can get the archives
and everything else. Make a donation to

1447
01:58:12.039 --> 01:58:15.239
me if you'd like, at ucy
dot tv slash t oe for the ocell

1448
01:58:15.479 --> 01:58:18.560
effect. There is YouTube links there. There's all kinds of stuff there,

1449
01:58:18.600 --> 01:58:21.359
and if you look hard enough,
you can still find the chat room somewhere

1450
01:58:21.399 --> 01:58:25.960
on the thing, although it's been
kind of segregating. I tried, I

1451
01:58:26.079 --> 01:58:28.720
tried to get on it. It
wasn't there. Yeah, I know,

1452
01:58:28.840 --> 01:58:32.000
it's been kind of segregated, and
uh, that's the way that is anyway

1453
01:58:32.560 --> 01:58:34.760
Again, though, I want to
thank all of you guys who joined in,

1454
01:58:34.920 --> 01:58:42.720
and I think we may have to
do a A part three A because

1455
01:58:43.319 --> 01:58:49.880
we haven't. We haven't beaten her
enough, heytime, just my just the

1456
01:58:50.079 --> 01:58:57.119
mythology and the universe of myths which
has evolved from her, not her personally.

1457
01:58:57.680 --> 01:59:16.760
I do not support the issues us
the grand text ushers gajus doot sound

1458
01:59:16.920 --> 01:59:30.640
usher haydn tax by t du gas
dot usn tas ta ta ta ta ta

1459
01:59:31.840 --> 01:59:44.399
ta n sounds any pass a bad
time non text back