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at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey guess what, it's dot NetRocks.

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We're back. I'm Carl Franklin.
That's my friend Richard Campbell. Hey

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man, hey man, what's happening. Uh? You know, we're cheating

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here because I think this show had
some scheduling challenges, so we're recording it

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right before we publish it. We
have a few shows that are already in

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the can from our great trip bombing
around Europe. Well, you and I

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were together in Porto and had got
a bunch of good shows, which folks

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are going to hear. Yeah,
but we're recording out of order because time

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shifting. That's right. Hey.
But I'm at home and I like home.

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Home is very nice, sitting by
the ocean. I love home.

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Yeah, I'm a big fan.
As you can see my new home.

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Yeah, you're in your studio,
the studio that I'm in. Yeah,

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yeah, he loves red walls.
Man, that's a thing for you.

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I love the red walls and the
dim lights. Okay, okay, let's

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kick it off with better no a
framework, run it awesome? All right,

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man? What do you got?
So our friends at Selliance have been

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working with large language models before chat
chept was even a thing. So Zeyner

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Tahata, as you know, has
been working with AI stuff since long,

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long time ago. So anyway,
Joe Hewan has been working on this project

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and he announced it on his LinkedIn
page. It's called Foundation LLM, and

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it's basically the goal is to make
it very easy for anyone to create co

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pilots nice without you know, having
to figure all the low level stuff out.

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So a higher level of abstraction,
yes, yeah, trustworthy and secure

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enterprise co pilots. And so what
I've done is I've linked to the press

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release, which has a link to
the website of course, and this is

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show eighteen seventy. So if you
go to eighteen seventy dot pomp dot me,

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that'll take you there and you can
read all about it. These guys

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are brilliant, I mean, yeah, well down about it, and Cyprin

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was involved in. Cyprin is crazy
smart, like holy man, he is

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crazy smart and also a little crazy. Yeah crazy Yeah, you guys and

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your your quantum stuff. We are. Yeah. When Cyprin I get together,

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it becomes a little storm. It
comes an interesting storm. Yeah,

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black holes collide. Well he's more
of the science guy. I'm more of

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the engineering guy. So we Yeah, it gets it goes fast. That's

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what I'll say. Yeah, all
right, so that's what I got.

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No it, learn it, love
it. Who's talking to us today,

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Richard Campbell? In honor of our
guests, I grabbed a comment off a

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show seventeen eighty seven, which is
not a show done with Jeff Fritz,

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but I know that you know Jeff
and I did. We did a show

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with him a while back on static
websites, And this is actually a comment

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from the static website show we did
with Stacy cash More and I grabb this

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particular comment because Stacy couldn't answer it, but I think Jeff could. This

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comment comes from Rob Garner, longtime
listener. Hey Rob, are you doing?

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I know you don't? Meek think
you need another music to code by?

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You've got a few, but he
wrote this comedy said this was an

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awesome episode. I've been working on
a static web app with Azure functions application

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for a startup, and it's been
very helpful to confirm that I'm on the

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right track. But the way that
Stacey positioned it, I'm also contemplating using

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this in the community college dot net
course that I teach. But as you're

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always scared for student use because I'm
afraid of them getting a big accidental bill,

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I wish I had a bulletproof workflow
to make sure that we don't end

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up with charges for students. Wow. And I'm like, Rob, that's

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a brilliant idea, and I'm going
to ask a guy who doesn't work an

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Azure to fix it for us,
But well, you know, we'll lay

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it over to Jeff. We get
him on there, And I I said,

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longtime listener, a great contributor to
the community, teaches people to do

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software development all the time. Big
fan of yours, Rob, Thanks so

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much for everything you do. And
even though you don't really need another copy

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of music go by. If anybody
would else would like one, write a

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comment on the website at Donna at
Rocks dot com. Or on the facebooks.

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We publish every show there and if
you comment there and everybody in the

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show, we'll send to your copy
of music go by. You know what

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I love, Richard. I love
when we're doing these live shows and you

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read that live and people their mouths
just drop like, oh, I have

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an in Porto, didn't it?
Yeah, that's exactly what happened to Porto.

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We ripped the whole thing out.
I did my usual patter and then

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you look out at the room,
use the one he called it out.

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I didn't even call it up with
the whole They were all bug eyed their

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bug eye. Yeah, they're like, you really do that every time time.

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Well, you can follow us on
Twitter if you like. That's fine.

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We were still there, but the
cool kids are hanging out. I'm

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Mastadon, I'm at Carl Franklin at
tech hub dot social, and I'm rich

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Campbell at mass Social. Yeah,
send us a two. We read him,

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and we might even read him on
the air. Might actually end up

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with you getting a copy of music
to code buy. So do that all

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right, Jeff Fritz, you're here. Uh, I don't know as if

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you need an introduction, but I
can go back in time a little bit.

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We first met you at tech ed
somewhere for speaker Idol, which I

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believe you won or you came in
runner up or something, but it was

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a JavaScript testing for no. I
came in dead last, all right,

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because I loved it. As I
recall, I've been a fan of years

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ever since. I thought it was
great. It was a JavaScript testing framework

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and this is right two thousand something, twenty twelve. Yeah, and I

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think I've actually seen you that you've
seen it the year before, and it's

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like, I got to do that, yes, And I said, you

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know, I think you asked me, and I said, listen. The

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tricky we always recruit the same way
out of tech d. You have to

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submit a to submit more talk or
more get turned down. Easy to do

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a tech ed and then come to
the show anyway. Yeah, because I

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don't have a T and E.
It's it's always interesting that I'll introduce myself

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to folks at Microsoft. And there's
a thing at Microsoft when you meet new

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new employees or whatever, there's always
a question of how long have you been

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with the company, how did you
get your start with Microsoft? And I

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just casually mentioned, oh, I
lost a game show. Yeah, but

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it's testament to the power of that
little thing. I gave you a speaker

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idol five minutes to do a talk
and you get you know, even that

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people that didn't win got noticed by
Microsoft. Now you work there, Oh

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yeah, and I do. Yeah, and you did and it was Yeah.

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So you're on the ASPNAT team and
Blazer is your thing, right,

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I'm I am on the dot net
and we call it the dot Net and

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Visual Studio Community Team. Yeah,
okay, all right, so but you're

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you're mister Blazer over there. I
do. I talk a lot about Blazer

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and building demos and writing some of
the training material that folks get on Microsoft

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Learn. And you've done a whole
lot of stuff live on Twitch over the

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years. I might be. I
think I'm closing in on a thousand episodes

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on Twitch. That's awesome. So
it'll be five years for me this November.

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That's a faster cadence then we got
to a thousand, that's for sure.

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There was a time in there where
I was doing four streams a week.

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Yeah, I had a lot of
work, man, that's a lot

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when we published three shows a week. Yeah, but you clearly yeah,

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it was Hey, I do want
to call back to Rob's comment because I

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do there's a whole section of four
teachers in Azure. Isn't there like a

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bunch of services around that there?
There is You can absolutely as as a

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teacher, as an educator, you
can get in touch with us. There

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are plans that you can sign up
for. But I want to make sure

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that folks also know, particularly if
you're using azuro static websites, there's a

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free plan in there that you can
use like free free you you have a

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limit as to how much function as
your functions work happens. But the static

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content that it's serving free free,
free no issues, not free as in

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you know this is free as in
beer like this is yeah? Is that

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the funny kind of free? Not
free like a puppy? Right? But

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also the point is that you can
configure the count so is like as soon

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as I have a charge, just
turn me off. Yes, that's right.

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There's budget limitations that you can configure
on your account. It's real easy

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to dial that up and down to
however much you're comfortable with, right,

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and you'll you'll get alerts as you
reach certain thresholds nearing that that that dollar

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amount even if that dollar amount is
zero. Yes, awesome, well,

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and it's great. I thought that
was the answer, but I thought I'd

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rather have it coming to from a
Microsoft person so they have somebody to go

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after rather than me. That's right, because you can't check as you can't

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check a blue budget badge under the
bus. Who can you check? Now?

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I've got a target on my chest. Thank you so much. We're

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here to help, Jeff, We
really are. That was a career advancing

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move. There you go, just
did there you go? So dot net

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comf is coming up here, woo
yes, Oh my gosh, it's my

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favorite time of the year. Love
tell me something. I mean, don

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comf is very popular and people tune
in. And I guess it was born

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during the pandemic maybe oh even before
then pandemic. Okay, So dot net

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comp started as mvc comp way back
in the day, all right, and

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we were connecting folks and dialing them
in US using the old Windows phone calling

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software. It was wow, are
you trying not to say skypery? Is

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that what you're doing? No,
it was even before Skype, oh my

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god, the old Windows meeting software. But I guess what I'm saying is

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It sort of took off during COVID, didn't it during the pandemic? No,

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not, it was it was actually
taking off before then. Okay,

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we were in growing twice today.
Oh no, No, it's something we

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don't We aren't with dot net Conf. We aren't out there publishing the numbers

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and showing trends on how it's growing. We definitely saw a peak in the

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twenty twenty dot net confedition because it
was such a point where, you know

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what, folks weren't going to events
anyway. Yeah, and we were able

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to bring everybody in and put them
in that comfortable event that we all know

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when love and that's been around now
for I think this is the thirteenth edition

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of the event. What's your thoughts
as to people tuning in online to dot

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conference is going to in person conferences
that Microsoft does. I think there's a

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place for both. However, the
presentation of an all virtual event like dot

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net Con has immense reach. Everybody
in the world can participate, and that's

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something that we strive to make sure
that everybody has access to and that we

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really want everybody to be a part
of and to feel welcome into. To

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the point that we go thirty two
hours straight from nine am on day two

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all the way through to five pm
Pacific times of course five pm Pacific on

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day three. That way, over
that thirty two hours, everybody's going to

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get a slice of the day that
is on their time zone, that is

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in their normal daylight hours, so
they don't have to wake up in the

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middle of the night in order to
tune in and see what's going on.

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Well, I've always liked this of
Yeah, it's the launch of the next

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version of dot net, which has
been true in the past but three years.

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But then also it's the community part
of let's go around the world,

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and it's this, hey, we're
coming to to you from such and such

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a location all the way around.
That to me is the coolest bit.

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Yeah, and there's those couple of
hardcore guys, right, I'm thinking of

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the elders of the world that try
and watch the whole twenty four hours.

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There are a few folks that we
will see hanging out there through the entire

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stream, and it's amazing that they're
hanging through. But it's you don't need

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to it's all recorded, it's all
going to be made on YouTube later.

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So do you do eight hours live
like on the West Coast, and then

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repeat those overnight, or is there
always something being streamed live and always from

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the West coast? A little bit
of both. So day one we're going

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to be live streaming all of Day
one, So it's actually hours on day

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one because we have an hour long
keynote right up at the front. After

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that's over, we'll issue a repeat. We'll have some repeat playback through the

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evening broadcast from the West coast of
the United States. When we get to

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day two, we'll have eight hours
being broadcast mostly live from the West Coast.

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There's a couple of folks that are
going to be dialed in and presenting

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remotely. But at the end of
day two air quotes. It's weird doing

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air quotes on the radio. I
need to figure out a way to do

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that. And so at the end
of day two, so we hit five

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pm Pacific time, we switch over
and we'll have community folks that are broadcasting

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from everywhere in the world. So
of course we're going to pick up with

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folks on the West Coast, anywhere
on the West coast of the United States,

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Canada, Mexico, South America,
folks in Hawaii, and we start

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picking up with folks in Australia and
the East Coast of Asia. We've even

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got speakers coming into us from China
this year, so we're really looking forward

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to folks everywhere being able to connect
in and present live all night long,

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no recorded content. However, if
there is content that folks aren't entirely interested

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in, there might be a slightly
different topic. We have other folks that

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didn't quite make the cut for live
presenting or that aren't weren't available to present

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live that we typically would have released
as pre recorded content, but instead we

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decided this year, let's publish and
have a premiere of their content live on

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YouTube as the event goes on.
So it'll almost be like Room two happening

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over there, and there'll be subject
matter experts hanging out in chat of those

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broadcasts to help out with answering questions
and foster some of the conversation that happens.

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That's very cool. And of course
YouTube can you know, translate into

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immediately into any language, so you've
got captions for anybody speaking any language.

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Absolutely, so do you ever get
people that say, you know, can

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you have presentations in my language?
We tried that a couple of years ago,

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we tried saying, hey, you
know what, if you're a local

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speaker that has a different native language
and you'd like to use your language,

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go ahead. It wasn't well received
by the audience during those few sessions,

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so we stick to English for the
presentations and then we'll have translations available afterwards.

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Interesting. Yeah, you know,
we're just not that far away from

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the technology being good enough that you
might hear it in real time translated audibly

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too. But I have heard over
and over again. It's like folks like

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hearing it in the native language and
then maybe subtitled or something else like that.

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So I know, if I'm watching
a TV show and it's you know,

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let's say it's a cooking show from
Brazil, and you can hear them

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speaking Portuguese very low, and then
there are Americans that have you know,

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or English speaking people that do the
overlay, and I never like it as

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much because I mean, I don't
like that if somebody's going to overdub overdubb,

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I don't want to hear both languages
and one more quiet. I don't

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know, what do you think,
did well, didn't we see a little

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bit of an experiment with this from
the Netflix folks with the Squid Game shows,

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where it was available both as dubbed
into your local language or as the

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original Korean with subtitles. I did
like the dubbed in version of that,

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just because I got to focus on
the action. Such an action oriented series

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like that. Yeah, I didn't
want to have to read as much as

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a as a ink. Did you
hear the Korean like low volume in the

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background at the same time, I
can't remember. Yeah, that's what drives

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me nuts. It's just noise because
I don't speak Korean. That's why I'm

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listening in English. Anyway. It's
really cool what dot net comf has done.

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And I know Richard's been involved in
it a couple of times. And

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what's your involvement this year, Richard? I occasionally, because I'm local relatively

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speaking, I can drive down,
grab a night in a hotel, or

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stay with a friend. I will
take a shift calling out the various talks

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like basically doing the mc gig typically
the VJ Yeah, the four hour bit.

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And you know, as is true
of all mc gigs, it's pretty

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easy. Like you call out the
sponsors, you talk about the next thing

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you do a handoff right up until
something goes wrong, and you've always got

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that little voice piece in your ear, and so then the director says,

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hey, next, talk's not ready
Phil for five on you go, And

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you, as I do, too, have a lot of experience and just

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tap dancing when things go wrong,
don't we. Yeah, we have a

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lot of practice. No, that's
I think that those rough edges around a

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live event like this are what make
it so interesting, because I agree,

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right, we're developers. We want
to see how things are put together.

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We want that experience of knowing that, hey, the folks that are broadcasting

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and presenting, we're real people too, and we're out there for folks to

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interact with and respond to. There's
always lots of great interactions through social media

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for dot dot com, right,
yeah, And that's the other job of

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the MC is to pull the questions
from the board and send them to the

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guests. And I've also had the
experience where in a fill it's like,

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here's a couple of questions that are
not necessarily ready to that guest, but

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I can answer them, and I
would off, I'd go, and I'll

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fully admit to pulling the Hey,
I don't actually work for Microsoft, so

258
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I suspect I could answer this question
differently than a Microsoft person would, and

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I'll find going that one too.
Yeah, there's a couple of those questions

260
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that come in come in. Yeah, it's it's sort of the reality of

261
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triaging a Q and A. I
want to get back to this idea of

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how the landscape has changed for Microsoft
development outreach. You know, since the

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advent of internet video and everything.
Before Channel nine, the regional directors sort

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of had the job of distributing information
from Microsoft to the to the local communities.

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And that's why we were called regional
directors because our job. We had

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one job, and that is they
did a local events, you know,

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in different regions every year called dev
Days, and the regional director's job was

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to do a keynote, often with
hardware, right, They would send you

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boatloads of machines and stuff and you
would have to run through the demo and

270
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a script and everything, and your
job was to sort of be that liaison

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between Microsoft and the community. But
that was before YouTube, before Channel nine.

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When Channel nine came around, I
think the job that and DEV Day's

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kind of stopped, right, and
so the regional directors were like, well,

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Microsoft regional director. We don't work
for Microsoft, we don't have a

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region, we don't direct anything.
What do we do? You know,

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we struggled to find our role in
how we could help Microsoft. So then

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of course Channel nine boom, right, and people were tuning in and watching.

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I love Channel nine because it was
you know, somebody would just take

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a video camera into Scott Guthrie's office
and just sit down and chat with him.

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What are you working on? You
know, it was very very informal,

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and I kind of I think people
kind of like that. But then

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you know, as we get to
dot net comp and it's various previous incarnation,

283
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it really just went to a whole
new level. So just as an

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aside, Channel nine does it still
exist, it's it's not quite the same.

285
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The studios are there, they're not
quite broadcasting and putting together frequent content

286
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like they were. More or less
you see their output on the various Microsoft

287
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branded YouTube channels. Yeah, and
that's smart. I mean not even United

288
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uses the term Channel nine anymore,
right, Like that's where it came from.

289
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Was this idea that you used to
be able to listen in to what

290
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the pilots we're talking about on the
flight right, and that seemed to be

291
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the intent to that. Yeah,
so we know that conference about dot net

292
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eight, so there's going to be
a keynote. Imagine you're gonna talk a

293
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little bit about dot net A.
But what else can we expect? So

294
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we tinkered with something last year.
We try and experiment every year with the

295
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event, trying new things. We
want to get more folks involved, we

296
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want to get more folks excited about
things happening with dot net. So last

297
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year we tried this idea of an
education zone, a student hub that gets

298
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folks that are new to dot net
introduced and exposed to some of the various

299
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things that are going on around the
product, and it went very well last

300
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year, so that's coming back.
This is a day zero event. So

301
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dot net comp starts on November fourteenth, but on November thirteenth, we're going

302
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to have this I believe it's a
six hour series of streams that folks are

303
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going to be able to watch all
around artificial intelligence, web apps, mobile

304
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apps, and game development. Now
is it specifically for students. It's named

305
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student Zone, but it's really for
anybody who's new to dot net. Okay,

306
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Yeah, So it's almost like for
novices. Yeah exactly, Yeah,

307
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very cool, But you don't want
to call it the novice zone because you

308
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don't want folks to feel like it's
I don't know, but student zone makes

309
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it feel like, yeah, I'm
a student, I'm learning, I'm a

310
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beginner who wants to get involved and
see what this is all about in a

311
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very friendly environment that makes it easy
to ramp up. So lots of great

312
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speakers that we have talking about all
of that content. You can find a

313
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link to the Student Zone that folks
are interested, you can sign up and

314
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register. Yeah, I've I've grabbed
the link and stuck it in the show

315
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notes here, so thank you so
much. Yeah, here it help.

316
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But yeah, beginner friendly area,
right, because I do think that dot

317
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net comp if you're not experienced dot
net person, dot comf goes off like

318
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a gunshot, like we're up and
running. It's like and especially when you

319
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talk about dot net eight, like
you're talking about the eighth version of dot

320
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net twenty four years in, like
there's just a lot of stuff like if

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you were it's good that date the
day ahead to sort of get state folks

322
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.799
that are new or stable and say
like this is what you can expect.

323
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Here's the important bits you need to
worry about. Like, in some ways,

324
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I think you're super lucky for just
coming to dot net. Now there's

325
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a whole lot of pain you're never
going to experience. Oh yeah, there

326
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.519
was. It was a painful trip
getting here, it was, And dot

327
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Net COONF is in that place where
it's really more of a training event for

328
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:18.240
folks that are adjusting and moving forward
the current versions of dot net dot Net

329
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seven, dot Net eight. We're
gonna be talking a lot about all kinds

330
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of features across both of those versions
during the event. But if you're a

331
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beginner who's just getting in that Day
zero is going to ramp you up quickly,

332
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.559
give you pointers to where you can
go to learn more information, and

333
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.720
hopefully get you to a place that
you're more comfortable and ready to hear what's

334
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happening with the rest of the event
on days one, two, and three.

335
00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:47.799
Now that being said, how much
are we gonna talk about large language

336
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:52.079
models? Is those days? Not
much? I'm not going to complain because

337
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:55.759
toy oh boy, it's kind of
overwhelmed everything lately, Like it's been nice

338
00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:00.559
to talk about something else. It
has we will. I absolutely need to

339
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:06.400
talk about that. We need to
touch on artificial intelligence, larger language models.

340
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.079
That's absolutely something that folks want to
learn about. But you know what,

341
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:15.240
folks still got to build websites.
Yeah, mobile apps, native applications

342
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:19.839
on Windows services, cloud scale applications, IoT devices. We're going to cover

343
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:25.039
all of that during the event.
Good. Yeahh that's great, But that's

344
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.920
just you know, I think about
the content tree for dot net rocks being

345
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:33.240
a similar problem space. Oh yeah, plus maybe a little more politics than

346
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.480
necessarily what a Microsoft event would get
into, like the impacts of open source,

347
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.200
that kind of thing. But if
you work and see sharp the stuff

348
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:42.799
for you, if you're dealing with
Blazer or this stuff for you, like

349
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:48.119
all those lins. Like I'm trying
to decide what tags to put into this

350
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.920
show, and it's like, I
think it's all of them. Yeah,

351
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.039
we're going to touch on a lot
of things. Yeah. I actually I

352
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.640
put together a list of ten sessions
that I think must watch. Okay,

353
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:06.720
for folks, the typical folks that
are going to be watching dot net cof.

354
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.680
Now, if you're more focused on
web than other technologies, you may

355
00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:15.440
adjust this, But I put together
a list of ten sessions that I think

356
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.240
are going to be really good to
tune in. All right, Well,

357
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.480
before you go down that list,
we should break for this very important message.

358
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:27.519
Yeah, oh, I could use
a snack, and we're back.

359
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:32.480
Jeff Scott is snack and it's dot
net Rocks. I'm Richard Campbell. That's

360
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:36.759
Carl Franklin. Hey, hey,
those munching noises you hear are Jeff Fritz

361
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:42.480
And we're talking a little bit about
talking about about dot net cof and okay,

362
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:48.759
what are the cannot miss sessions of
dot net cough? All right,

363
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.920
Now I'm a little biased because I'm
a bit of a web developer. Okay,

364
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.319
I'm a lot biased. Okay,
So here we go with the top

365
00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.480
ten list that that I put together
that I I really want to watch.

366
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Number one with a bullet it's easily
the one of the most popular sessions every

367
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:12.240
year. What's new in c sharp
twelve with Matts Tourgerson and Dustin Campbell.

368
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:15.839
Yeah, all right, so the
people who bring you the new version of

369
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:18.519
c sharp, what we've been up
to the past year, right, Like,

370
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:22.400
okay, yeah, show me show
me all the cool new stuff I

371
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.400
can do with the language. Because
that's that's important. Yeah, And we

372
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:32.680
were just in Europe and see and
saw Mads in Warsaw talking. He has

373
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:36.200
a version pieces of that that he
fit into an hour for the Warsaw audience.

374
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.680
So absolutely, you know, it's
amazing to see twelve versions of a

375
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:42.240
language, and definitely from the people
who are making it. Oh yeah.

376
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.680
The second session that I recommend folks
to check out is packing Light with vs

377
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:52.279
code and c sharp DevKit with Burke
Holland and Leslie richardson Interesting. I am

378
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:56.680
a big fan of c sharp DevKit
and vs code because a couple months a

379
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:03.359
year I spend dedicated in Lenox writing
code in Linux. I want to do

380
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:08.440
my C sharp development, Blazer ASPNT
development working with Azure on a Linux machine.

381
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:12.240
I want to spend a month or
two on my Mac and get outside

382
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:18.200
the right The friendly confines of visual
Studio and vs code and c sharp DevKit

383
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:22.920
are so cool to use in those
environments, So I make sure I want

384
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.759
to make sure that folks check that
out because it really is a nice experience.

385
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:32.720
And not to just derail things here
though, but what's your response to

386
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.000
so C sharp DevKit we don't need
studio anymore? Right, like this is

387
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:38.039
the end of studio. It's not
the end of studio, it's right.

388
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:42.160
C Sharp DevKit just gives you the
way to organize your code the same way

389
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:48.039
you do in studio, and it
gives you that same language server feature that

390
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:52.920
you had in studio that is really
robust, really clean, and quite frankly

391
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.759
at high speed like you're used to
in Visual Studio. There's all kinds of

392
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:03.640
other features in Visual Study that you
aren't even touching it sure with VSC,

393
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:07.000
I've also found I've been talking to
a few groups now who are starting who

394
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.799
were using it before it was in
general release, and it was we have

395
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.599
team members who who are typically web
developers who've never worked in studio. They

396
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.440
don't want to work in studio,
and they couldn't see the project. They

397
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:21.599
were working on their own stuff.
But it was always a bit of an

398
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:23.920
integration problem when it came down to
the you know, the overall suite of

399
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:29.400
things. So making them sort of
full citizens of the project seem like a

400
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:34.599
great compliment, like that's that's a
good thing, as folks are discovering how

401
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:40.920
projects and solutions work together that we've
been accustomed to in studio for decades now

402
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:47.039
they're getting the organization of that and
going huh yeah, yes, this this

403
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.000
makes sense to me now. Yeah, so just more people able to work

404
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:53.119
together. And I like that and
it's a it's a great feature. Yeah,

405
00:29:53.240 --> 00:30:00.480
do the Visual Studio proper project templates
map over? Can you actually open

406
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.559
those? Like? Can I create
a new Blazer web app? And it

407
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.480
already has all this stuff put in
there? Yes, it does because the

408
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:12.799
dot Net templates are coming off of
the dot net Cli, so it loads

409
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:17.920
up in seas and they have the
shared template model. Yeah that's great.

410
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.160
Yeah. Yeah, Speaking of Blazer, you know, you and I are

411
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.440
doing a little something at dot net
com. We are. We'll be talking

412
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:32.480
about Blazer puzzles. The game show
segment of the third day will be pausing

413
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:37.640
and talking about a few Blazer puzzles
for folks getting into dot net eight with

414
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:42.359
Blazer. So, Blazer Puzzle dot
Com is a new show that Jeff and

415
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:47.559
I are doing there. The episodes
are like ten twelve minutes each and we

416
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:51.960
posit a problem. We say,
here's some simple code, why doesn't it

417
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.359
work? Or you know, implement
feature X or something along those lines.

418
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.079
It's a puzzle and yeah, as
I say, we got what ten or

419
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:04.720
eleven episodes out there, and we're
going to be doing one live at dot

420
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:10.480
net comp. Maybe we'll do two
or three or maybe revisit one. Not

421
00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:14.200
sure, but we're gonna do something
again. Definitely got to do a callback

422
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.240
to a past one. That's a
great idea and to see how people responded

423
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.839
to it, and then maybe the
new puzzle could be Okay, now do

424
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:26.920
this in dot net A there you
go. Yeah, number three all right,

425
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.680
so number three I have dot net
Love's AI with John Maida and Scott

426
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.920
Hanselman. Who's John Maida? Wow? So John Mayida is actually an artificial

427
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:41.720
intelligence luminary. This guy's been around
the artificial intelligence field for years and was

428
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:45.160
even he was embedded with MIT.
He's been working at a number of organizations

429
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:52.000
promoting and diving into really some of
the foundational things that we take for granted

430
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.799
in the AI field today. Interesting. So they're going to be talking about

431
00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:02.400
some of the things that we can
do from a very wide scope with artificial

432
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.440
intelligence in dot net. Is he
relatively recent to Microsoft. He is,

433
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.599
He's only been with us for just
a few years, but making a big

434
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:16.559
difference in how we engage and promote
AI across all the products across Microsoft.

435
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:22.680
I mean, I just like that
that Microsoft is building out this cadre of

436
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:27.960
folks who've been involved in this space
a lot longer than chat GPT's been around.

437
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:30.640
So it's just such a bunch of
technologist running around. But like kind

438
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:36.680
of best and brightest. He was
one of the twenty one people you need

439
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.519
to know for the twenty first century. Yeah, how about that? Huh,

440
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:45.519
Like that's a heck of a list
from Forbes. That's kind of crazy.

441
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:49.480
Yeah, so okay, that just
being on a Forbes list is serious

442
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.839
cred. That's one thing right there. But yeah, no, he kind

443
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:55.680
of that's really interesting, So okay, that's definitely worth a grab, all

444
00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:01.079
right. Next one is improving application
telemetry with net eight and open telemetry.

445
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:07.079
Noah Fulck and Sam Spencer are talking
about this. Wow, taking our logging

446
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:12.400
to the next level, really right. I Mean, when you're locking messages

447
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.079
from your applications, you want to
have that caught and displayed somewhere, and

448
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:19.799
there's all kinds of tools that do
that, but open telemetry really is that

449
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:25.119
gateway that's going to make it available
to be displayed anywhere. So I want

450
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:29.640
to see this one and learn about
how I can use things like Prometheus with

451
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:34.160
my dot net applications. Interesting,
steal a fire, steal a fire,

452
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:39.160
sorry to say it. After that, there's dot net container advancements in dot

453
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:44.319
net eight. Our friends Chet Husk
and Richard Lander are talking about this.

454
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.839
I feel like the container story just
gets better and better each year. Dot

455
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:52.960
Net seven you can build directly into
containers. Now even more advancements with our

456
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:59.839
containers getting smaller and better across not
just x eighty six x sixty four processors,

457
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:05.400
but ARM processors, so I can
deploy to right to machines running ARM

458
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.599
like my Raspberry pies. Really cool
stuff. It to me, the big

459
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:13.920
thing about running and containers is I
want to be sure that my software causes

460
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.840
no side effects and is not is
impacted by no side effects. It's taking

461
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:22.320
that cookie cutter works on my machine
application, and it's going to work the

462
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:23.960
same everywhere else. Yeah. Sure, what you put it in a container.

463
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:27.960
What you're saying is it works on
my machine because it's my machine,

464
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.000
right Like you're literally in a contata
that says there's nobody elseres here about me.

465
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:37.599
I live alone, absolutely, So
I want to talk about another AI

466
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:42.679
session for number six here, Okay, create an enterprise copilot extension for visual

467
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:47.960
studio code through semantic Kernel. This
is with kinfey Low. So now we're

468
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:53.480
talking about helping make visual studio code
better with your own syntax, your own

469
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:59.960
content. I like that. What's
semantic kernel? So semantic kernel is a

470
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:06.199
is a tool that lets you build
your own model, your own capabilities to

471
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:12.639
interact with and train so that you
can then get answers to questions appropriately for

472
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:17.159
whatever topic it is that you're working
on. So I guess it's a higher

473
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:22.679
level of distraction than working directly with
models and training and yeah, yeah,

474
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:28.840
the short answer would be it's generating
your own chat GPT, right, But

475
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.440
there's more functionality that you can dial
into it besides just ask it a question.

476
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:38.000
You can actually hand off to functions
and things that'll perform computation. Well

477
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:44.199
maybe similar to foundational m Yeah sounds
all on the same lines, along the

478
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:47.440
same lines. Yeah, not a
bad thing. My big concerns with web

479
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:52.840
development are what are leading me into
number seven? I'm always concerned about performance.

480
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:58.480
Number seven is improve your ASPNT core
web at performance with Azure Cash for

481
00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:04.280
reddis I feel like we as an
industry need to get on board the Reddest

482
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.639
bandwagon here, because, oh my
lord, will it make your applications better

483
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:15.159
if you're hitting a database, if
you're doing any kind of cashing, don't

484
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:19.199
just do output cashing cash with reddess. Right, Catherine Wang and Mark Grovell

485
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.679
are going to be talking about this. I want to see what they've got

486
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:27.039
and learn more about how I can
use Reddus better in my applications. You

487
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:30.840
know, that's great. I'm thinking
about ms opent tech back in the day,

488
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.800
you know, twenty twelve to twenty
fourteen, and that was one of

489
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.519
the very first projects they were talking
about. Dot Net needs to be a

490
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:42.159
first class client for Reddus, right
and for Elastic, Like it was those

491
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:47.280
kinds of these very successful platform pieces
before we were really doing cloud platform the

492
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:52.760
way we are, and just a
recognition that they came from the open source

493
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:55.000
community and that they it wasn't easy
to use them through dot net. You

494
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.280
had to jump through a lot of
hoops, and so you know, ms

495
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:02.159
up attack made that come true.
What I like about these particular talks is

496
00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:06.239
like it's almost to eat your vegetables
too, right, This is not just

497
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:08.119
like these are new bits because it's
dot neta but it's like, hey,

498
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:13.280
while you're thinking about the new bits, have you picked up the stuff that's

499
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:15.599
been important for a while and maybe
you just haven't looked at it. Because

500
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:22.280
this is important. You do not
need to solve casing. It is a

501
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:27.440
solved problem. It is very solved. It incredibly smart people have tackled this.

502
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.360
You just need to learn it and
in a half an hour session you're

503
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:35.360
you're gonna be on the road to
set your feet out of you anyway,

504
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:39.800
and then you're already online, So
go read further. Number eight. I'm

505
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:45.199
always working with database on my applications
and I need to spend more time with

506
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:50.599
Cosmos. So number eight is building
planet scale dot net apps with Azure Cosmos

507
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:54.840
dB from Justine Coachy. I believe
this. I pronounced Justine's name here.

508
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:02.039
Cosmos has a handful of different model
so that you can use not just no

509
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.880
SQL with Mongo dB like bindings,
but you can use postgress in there.

510
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:08.920
There's a graph database that you can
use in there, and you could pivot

511
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:14.519
and use all these things. I
can't wait to hear from Justine as they

512
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:19.199
get us in and ramped up with
Cosmos for dot neet developers. So's the

513
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.920
thing that makes Cosmos cosmosy is that
it's pushed to the edge, right,

514
00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:27.639
push to the various regions around Azure. Yea, yeah, but it's at

515
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:31.280
that last mile, like it's close
to where you are rather than some you

516
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:36.159
know, server in a data center
somewhere. But you still need to have

517
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:40.400
an application that's out there on those
data centers near it if you want to

518
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:44.400
take full advantage of it. Sure. Yeah. I also look at it

519
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:51.119
as an art as architecture for the
right centrally read remotely sort of distributed model,

520
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:53.760
which again you can roll your own, and there's other open source libraries,

521
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:57.559
but like, this is a platform
built that way from scratch, so

522
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:00.679
you don't need to own any of
the bits, just call it and it

523
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:06.960
basically has a Mango dB interface a
calling interface to it, like if you're

524
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:12.440
building, the migration from Mango to
Cosmos is trivial. And because they've got

525
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:15.400
bindings for postgress in there also,
you can use a postgress API as well.

526
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:20.440
Right, So there's a handful of
APIs in there, not just Mango

527
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:24.039
and Postgrass, like I said graftb
as well. Really cool stuff for folks

528
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:30.199
to check out. Number nine,
I'm going to go a little bit outside

529
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:32.159
the box here. Folks are always
looking at and saying, hey, check

530
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:37.199
out all the cool frameworks that Microsoft
ships with dot net, but there's other

531
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.400
user interface frameworks that you got to
check out. And I want to call

532
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:46.239
out a session about UNO platform.
Yeah. I love those guys. Ah.

533
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:51.119
So this is called Elevate your Cross
Platform dot Net Development with dot Net

534
00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:58.480
eight from Nick Randolph and Francois Tangay
There. Yeah, I want to learn

535
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:01.599
more about UNO and how I can
use that because while I like using dot

536
00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:07.800
net MAUI, I'm always open to
learning other frameworks, other tools that work

537
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:12.960
with dot net. It's great to
have options and other folks that are building

538
00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:15.920
and helping the entire community. Yeah, without doubt, and it's one of

539
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:19.920
those, you know, one of
those great things that there's there's more than

540
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:23.239
one way to solve this. Those
guys came from the UWP place, you

541
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:27.679
know, and then got all into
w A like they've done some cool stuff.

542
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.960
It's great to see them on board
they have. I agree, and

543
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:34.199
you know, we made a lot
of shows in that space, not just

544
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.880
do you know about Avalonia and so
forth for exactly that reason that like,

545
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:39.960
there's not one way to solve this
problem. So you know what my last

546
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:44.840
secon, my last session I'm going
to recommend is a similar third party framework

547
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:47.960
that I think isn't a topic that's
fun and something that we can we can

548
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:52.079
all kind of sink our teeth into
and learn a little bit about. And

549
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:55.360
it's about using c sharp with GOODOH
to make games. For Michael Hawker,

550
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:01.400
do you have to wait for good
I knew that one was coming. Holy

551
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:08.559
man, we could be sitting here
a long time just saying so GOODOUGH is

552
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:14.239
an open source framework, really cool
stuff to help build games. It's really

553
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:16.239
gotten a lot of attention over the
last month or so with some of the

554
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:22.239
changes that have happened to Unity.
Folks have been checking out and exploring GOODO

555
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:25.480
a bit. Really cool stuff to
hurt to hear from Michael talking about how

556
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:30.480
we can get started with GOODOUGH.
So I'm looking forward to learning more about

557
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.280
that during our sessions. That sounds
good. I'm going to take a look

558
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:35.639
at that one. Yeah, it's
good and it's good to have some alternatives.

559
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:42.239
Poor old Unity. No tears shed
for Unity here? Well, they

560
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.480
you know, they I get what
was going on? It cost a CEO

561
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:51.400
is job. There you go,
there, you go, well, we

562
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:54.119
don't like that. It is all
right. That was a heck of a

563
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:58.119
list of ten What are you going
to be doing? What am I going

564
00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:00.199
to be doing? So I'm yeah, what are you? I'm the producer.

565
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:05.559
I got to make sure that this
thing is running. So I typically

566
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:09.679
have a seat in the in the
studio just off camera where I'll be watching

567
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:19.480
moderating, coordinating with the technical director
and audio engineers make sure that everything's running

568
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:23.920
soundly. But I'll pop up hosting
for a little bit for a few hours

569
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:28.679
and talking with our buddy Carl.
You guys, you are going to take

570
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:31.719
a hosting shift. Yep, absolutely, I got to admit, like I've

571
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:37.679
done hosting shifts and hosting has its
own challenges, but the crew behind the

572
00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:40.559
whole project, like you can't imagine
how many moving parts there are that you

573
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:45.400
don't have to think about. When
you're hosting. You're just making your marks,

574
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:47.639
calling out the piece you need to
call to, pulling up the right

575
00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:52.800
questions and passing them along to the
to the the piece that's just been done,

576
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.960
and then handing off to the next
one, and all of that is

577
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.960
done by other folks that are ready
to go. Dude, I've seen at

578
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:05.920
dev Intersection, what the you know, Microsoft brought like an entire studio that

579
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.239
was behind the screen to do streaming, and I was looking in there.

580
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:14.719
There's like twenty people, there's like
seventy workstations and one hundred thousand screens.

581
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:20.199
It's just like whoa well that I
produced and was part of that event,

582
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.280
right? That was that was the
connected event in twenty eighteen. Yeah,

583
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:28.119
we brought to Las Vegas. We
didn't they do full mirroring for that one

584
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:31.719
too. Like that, that's the
step beyond where every demo being done on

585
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:37.000
stage is also being done in behind
the stage, so if something went wrong,

586
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.559
they would just flip and keep going. Yeah, I can cut right

587
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:45.320
to another machine. I ever paid
on pace with it. Ever since Bill

588
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:50.480
Gates got a blue screen during a
keynote, there's been this mirroring mechanism that

589
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.679
never happened again, Oh my goodness. And they spend a lot of money

590
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:59.039
to make that true. H The
rest of us just eat it sometimes,

591
00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:04.679
you know, that's the that's the
glory of life coding and live present.

592
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:07.480
But I mean and you guys aren't
that heavily produced a dot cough, Like

593
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.719
I've seen demos go sideways too,
right, I mean, some stuff's recorded,

594
00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:13.880
some stuff's not. But it's like, hey, it's real life.

595
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:20.360
It's okay and right, And that
goes back to part of making us human

596
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:24.920
more realistic that folks can relate to, because hey, yeah, not everything

597
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:30.559
is perfect all the time. We've
got some rough edges, and developers deal

598
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:34.800
with that every day day, right. I mean you you code for an

599
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:37.440
hour and you hit run and you
get some bugs and oh well that wasn't

600
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.079
supposed to happen, and you spend
most of your time figuring it out.

601
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:45.159
I remember absolutely. I remember a
d n R TV with I think it

602
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:47.880
might have been even Hansleman, where
you guys were sort of warming up and

603
00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:54.159
it went sideways and you left the
recorders running and watching Hansoman dismantle the problem

604
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:58.440
and fixing it turned out to be
a better show, Like that's yeah,

605
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:00.199
and I and I remember that he
said, no, no, keep it

606
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:02.440
running, this will be good,
just keep it going, this will be

607
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:07.280
fun. And yeah, it's like
you know, yeah, how you solve

608
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:10.679
a problem is easily as interesting as
demonstrating how something works. Yeah, I

609
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:15.280
guess the only thing you have to
be careful of is that your audience is

610
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:19.480
time right. If it's a small
window of time and they're expecting to see

611
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:23.119
X and they end up seeing you
debugging X and never getting to the end

612
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:25.920
of the story. Well, and
that was the advantage with the DNR TV.

613
00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:29.480
It was a pre record. Yeah, and so you just rewrote the

614
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:31.559
show description. Yep. It's like, hey, instead, let me show

615
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:35.800
you debugging a problem that happened in
real time. But I agree. So

616
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.159
it's especially good in training. You
know, when something happens if you're live

617
00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:42.559
coding and training and you say do
you want to watch me debug this or

618
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.679
would you like to move on?
And most people will say no, figure

619
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:47.400
it out, I want to see
this. Yeah, when when things like

620
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:52.159
that happen during my live streams on
Twitch, if if I can get out

621
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.639
of it in ten to fifteen minutes, we'll get out. We'll try and

622
00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:59.400
solve this. That's a good rule. But well we'll time box it and

623
00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:04.119
if I go to long, then
we're going to move on and I'll fix

624
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:06.960
us off stream. You know.
I did that video series with the studio

625
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.719
team and I where I talked to
Leslie ridge In about the debugger, and

626
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:14.639
really that series was about, hey, do you remember just how good these

627
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:17.639
things are? And the debugger by
far my favorite one because the debugger in

628
00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:22.440
studio is unbelievably good. And Leslie
made this awesome point, It's like,

629
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:29.639
who did just debugging? Like almost
all of us learned it looking over someone's

630
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:35.119
shoulders. Yeah, well who that's
what? Who reads crash dumps is like

631
00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:39.239
only tests? We give it to
test that. Yeah, but the debugger

632
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:45.320
for Visual Studio is so good and
so user friendly that you don't really need

633
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:49.199
instructions to use it. Yeah,
for the most for a certain layer of

634
00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:52.719
features. When you get deeper into
like it'll help you all the time.

635
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.199
But boy, when you know more
about it, Yes, it's way cleverer

636
00:46:55.199 --> 00:47:00.719
than you realize. Like its ability
is shocking. Oh yes, and I

637
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:06.960
wish we taught it more. Maybe, Gee, I think I'm well positioned

638
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.920
to solve that problem, aren't I
Maybe I'll pursue that talk for DEVNT.

639
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:13.360
We should do it. We haven't. I can't tell you the last time

640
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:16.519
we did a show Donna rossby debug
Yeah. Actually I believe Leslie's talking about

641
00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:21.599
the debugger at devent this December.
Yeah, yeah, you're right, she

642
00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:25.559
will be. That's great. So
and again it's like, yeah, maybe

643
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:29.199
we need a debugging When I'm hung
talk, it's just like, hey,

644
00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:31.960
okay, let's really take this to
say, have you the same way that

645
00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:35.880
Kathleen takes sea sharp out for a
spin? And it's like, hey,

646
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:37.239
have you have you tried to use
it this way? Have you tried this

647
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:40.280
feature? Maybe you still just use
this technique that's a few versions ago.

648
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:45.519
Look at this. So our friend
Bill Wagner is actually giving a session at

649
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:50.880
dot net com called Everyday Sea Sharp
from the Guy which you wrote. He's

650
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:57.760
the book exactly. Bill's gonna dive
into here's some of the latest updates and

651
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:04.119
how you may want to shift the
way and bring your shift the way you

652
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:07.000
write code, and bring your approach
a little bit more current because the new

653
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:13.239
features that are available will allow you
to write less code that runs faster and

654
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:15.480
easier to read too, like simpler. Yes, you know, a little

655
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:20.159
less interpretation problem. And yeah,
his book was effective c sharp, so

656
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.159
it makes sense that he'd talk about
that. But it's something I bugged Mad's

657
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:27.159
about ages ago. It's like Hey, you know, how do you stop

658
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:29.679
people from using it the old way
when you built the new ways? And

659
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:34.320
it's like, well, that's what
tooling's all about, trying to make antalizers

660
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:38.719
help with that to be sure for
sure? Yeah, let's let's not forget

661
00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:44.280
writing code isn't just about making the
machine do things fast, but it's about

662
00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:47.039
letting those human eyes that are going
to read your code next know what your

663
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:50.840
intent, even if they're own eyes. Because a week later, I'm like,

664
00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:55.599
who wrote this? Oh wait,
it's me speaking of a week later?

665
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:59.280
What's your plans after dot dot com? If you're going to take a

666
00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:04.199
vacation. So I've got I've got
all the post event wrap up stuff.

667
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:07.079
We've got to send out reports and
things and let everybody know how we did

668
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:10.519
all that good stuff. I'm gonna
vacate. I'm gonna take a couple of

669
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.159
weeks off to be sure, But
then we've got deaf Intersection in December,

670
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:19.719
and then I'll be taking the rest
of the year off. But I will

671
00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:23.039
see you in Orlando. Yes,
well, they find your vacation, you

672
00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:29.320
find yourself traveling north to New York
or Boston, you definitely should stop by.

673
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:35.400
I'm So I've got an interesting,
interesting problem with vacation because my daughter.

674
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:38.599
My daughter is in the marching band
at Penn State University. You see

675
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:45.360
the posts and really excited for her. And if the football team's doing well,

676
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:51.320
we might be traveling to see how
they do and how the band is

677
00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:54.400
doing with them. Are they still
doing bowls? Oh? Yes, yes,

678
00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:00.440
your daughter participating in a bowl that's
astonishing. So even if they don't

679
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:07.639
make the national championship playoff, they'll
be in a bowl game, and based

680
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:12.920
on where they're ranked right now here
in November twenty twenty three, we should

681
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:16.000
see them probably playing on New Year's
you don't know where, yeah, like

682
00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:19.440
you don't know which ball where we
won't So it's like I have a plan

683
00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:24.440
for New Year's. I'm going somewhere, right, This is right. This

684
00:50:24.519 --> 00:50:29.960
is the challenge is we don't know
where they're going until after the last of

685
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:35.199
the conference championship games, which are
like beginning in December. Like, okay,

686
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.880
you've got three weeks go. Yeah, it's almost like go block hotel

687
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:44.639
rooms in a bunch of bowl locations
just in case. Yeah, there'll be

688
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:51.599
there'll be blocks of rooms set aside
for various fans Umni School America just hoping

689
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:53.719
inn RV. Yeah, dun,
dun du Who would do that? Who

690
00:50:53.719 --> 00:51:00.320
would hop in inn RV right across
the country? A thing that's crazy.

691
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:05.280
Now, okay, listeners out there, what you don't know, Okay,

692
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:07.480
now I'm going to take over the
podcast for a second. What you don't

693
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:13.159
know is before I got hired from
my first job after losing that contest,

694
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:16.679
that tech that was, I met
these two fellas at an RV stop in

695
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:22.679
Philadelphia and I brought them cheese sets, true, and that conversation led to

696
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:25.639
my first job. Wow in this
industry. Oh where Now it was one

697
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:29.159
of the universities that we were doing
the show at, as I recall,

698
00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:32.840
I think the Penn State University was
across the way, but it was a

699
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:37.840
Microsoft office. Yeah, yeah,
that's right back in the day. I

700
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:39.840
think that was a twenty twelve road
trip. And wasn't that the one where

701
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:47.280
we were plugging ht con We were
plugging HTA box and you had a yeh,

702
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:51.239
it was twenty fifteen when you were
on the stream when we were working

703
00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:55.000
on already where you had a tornado
warning in the middle of stream, like

704
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:58.960
this is a little too on the
point for disaster response. But okay,

705
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:02.679
yeah, right, Like, why
is it Whenever i get involved with the

706
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:08.559
live stream with Microsoft and I'm at
home storms, heat, tornado warning,

707
00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:09.920
I'm like, hey, you know
what, Jeff, you don't have to

708
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:14.840
keep streaming. You should go get
in the basement. How about that be

709
00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:22.719
right back? All right? Man, Hey, this has been a lot

710
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:24.519
of fun. I can't wait to
uh to hang out with you. It's

711
00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:30.840
net comf and puzzling and also just
to watch the great content and be involved

712
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:35.559
loving it. That's all. I'm
excited and looking forward to it absolutely.

713
00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:38.119
All Right, Jeff, We'll see
you later, and dear listener, we'll

714
00:52:38.159 --> 00:53:05.400
talk to you next time on dot
net rocks. Goodbye everybody. Dot net

715
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:09.119
Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's
Net and produced by Pop Studios, a

716
00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:15.320
full service audio, video and post
production facility located physically in New London,

717
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:21.400
Connecticut, and of course in the
cloud online at pwop dot com. Visit

718
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:23.679
our website at d O T N
E t R O c k S dot

719
00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:30.079
com for RSS feeds, downloads,
mobile apps, comments, and access to

720
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:34.480
the full archives. Going back to
show number one, recorded in September two,

721
00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:37.800
thousand and two, and make sure
you check out our sponsors. They

722
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:40.760
keep us in business. Now go
write some code. See you next time.

723
00:53:42.679 --> 00:54:00.199
You got jug middle vans and Yes