WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:46.799 Hello Andrew, Welcome to Open Mind GUFO Radio. I'm your host Alejandro Rojas, 2 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:53.439 and I am speaking with Martin. Northeaster willis because you have survived several 3 00:00:53.640 --> 00:01:00.359 northeasters. What is a northeaster. It's just basically a weather pattern. It 4 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:04.319 kind of goes, you know, like across sort of from west to east, 5 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:10.120 and then it kind of heads north and for some reason it just picks 6 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:12.760 up a lot of wind. And I don't know if it has to do 7 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:19.480 with currents or but it hits the coastal areas and you know, we've had 8 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:25.879 forty mile an hour winds and snow coming down sideways and I still have about 9 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:30.959 three feet in my yard. Wow, I'm ready for spring and I'm tired 10 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:37.519 of my even my tractor doesn't want to plow snow anymore. Yeah, wants 11 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:41.840 to break down. That sounds awful. I'm in a chili place right now 12 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:48.359 as well, and Boisy Boisy, which isn't as bad as where you are, 13 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:53.000 but it's still for me for an Arizona, and it's pretty chilly out 14 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.920 here. It's snowed yesterday. I'm here for something called tree Fort, which 15 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:02.439 is a music festival and there's a portion of it because they're trying to be 16 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:08.599 like south By Southwest where they have different talks going on as well. And 17 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:12.879 so I was part of what's called hack for It because they have food for 18 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:16.520 It, yoga, fort, ale Fort, these different forts. I was 19 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:21.639 at hack Fort, which is about tech. So I was brought in to 20 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:29.879 talk about tech writing writing stories with some of my fellow you know writers who 21 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:35.520 sometimes I travel with at these press junkets and stuff. And then I also 22 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:38.479 got to do a panel because they asked me what would be another good panel 23 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:40.240 you think, and I said, well, I do UFOs and paranormal maybe 24 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:43.400 the tech of that, and they were like, oh, that sounds awesome. 25 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.639 So I brought Ben and Mark D'Antonio, Ben Hampson marked Antonio out. 26 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:53.439 So we had a panel about UFOs and we got a little bit into other 27 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:58.719 paranormal and the tech that is used in it, including you know, the 28 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:06.680 Flaer videos in the latest DoD revelation. And the place was packed. It 29 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:10.360 was like we had standing room only. It was by far the most popular 30 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:16.800 of all of the talks they had at Hackport. Wow that's awesome. Yeoh, 31 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:21.520 so that was really cool. I bet it was, Uh, now, 32 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:23.639 did they actually record this or a nup job? What's just there? 33 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:29.240 They didn't record it? I think, yeah, no, it did get 34 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:35.840 recorded. But if you go to Mark d'antonio's facebook, he did live stream 35 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:44.759 us doing a podcast on stage out at the festival area. Huh so let's 36 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.319 post it on his Facebook page. Yeah, that's posted on his Facebook page. 37 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:54.680 And that's what my interview is. So Mark, Ben, myself and 38 00:03:54.800 --> 00:04:01.560 Karen did a roundtable during the conference in the side room where they had kind 39 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:09.280 of their tables, like they had different vendors and stuff, and so that's 40 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:14.319 what the interview is today. Oh oh, that's great. So we're talking 41 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.160 to you, we're talking to UFOs about kind of how Hackport went, and 42 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:21.680 then also, you know about the younger generation and how you know, this 43 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:27.240 younger dealing with them is different because this event is you know, kind of 44 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:31.519 mostly a twenty something hipster's kind of thing. So and so that was great 45 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:38.120 to see the think building our ideas on you know, how to reach out 46 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:44.399 to that group. And then also I get Ben and Mark's impressions and ideas 47 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:46.959 around this, you know, latest DoD news because I haven't talked to them 48 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:53.000 on the podcast since that all went down, Well, I'll be interested to 49 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:58.480 hear what especially Mark has to say about the latest film. Yeah, he 50 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:01.279 always has his opinions. Yeah, and last time I spoke to him, 51 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:06.360 he said he's still waiting to see a real UFO film or a picture. 52 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:12.560 Yeah, you're right, but you know, like he says, you know, 53 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.199 he's looking for something that stands on its own, which is really difficult. 54 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:21.279 And like you and I have talked about, photos and videos alone don't 55 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:29.399 make it a good case typically, right, Often, even though something anecdotally 56 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:34.639 may have been reported as something strange, on camera doesn't look like anything unusual, 57 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:40.319 so, which you know, is kind of the same problem with these 58 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:45.040 latest DoD kind of things. So so yeah, it's a lot of fun. 59 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.720 Wow. Great, So let's get into the news. How about that? 60 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:55.959 All right, let's segue into the news. Well, I'd like to 61 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.319 talk about they finally figured out what was going on with the little at a 62 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:06.600 comma, you know, they so called alien you know, miniature skeleton mm 63 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:12.720 hmm, you know in serious, serious, the serious movie. You know, 64 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:16.160 it's uh, it is a very unusual, you know, granted, 65 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.839 you know, you go back and you watch that film and his pictures all 66 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:24.839 over the internet. There's also I think Serious is on Netflix, and it 67 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:30.680 seems like it was anyway, so you know, got a lot of exposure 68 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.279 as and it did, you know, basically came out in the movie after 69 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:38.560 Gary Nolan did some work on it that it was you know, most likely 70 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:43.800 human or I think I think he actually said in the movie it was definitely. 71 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:47.759 They cut that out of the movie and and but you know, he 72 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:54.759 said that in several interviews, including interviews with myself, and I kind of 73 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:59.079 I interviewed Greer about that, and Grier kept saying, no, no, 74 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:00.680 that's not what he's saying. And I was like, yes, yes, 75 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:04.639 this is exactly what he's saying. And no, I mean he's saying it 76 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:08.319 very clearly. In fact, I told him, well, what do you 77 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:12.399 say to those people who And he's very nice and he says he likes Greary, 78 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:15.319 likes that he does the work that he does. But he was like, 79 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:18.040 no, this is human. If anybody else can show me some data 80 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:24.920 that says otherwise, that's great, but my DNA testing shows that this thing's 81 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:30.800 definitely human. I like Gary. I actually had some interaction with him myself. 82 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:32.560 He liked he has a good sense of humor because he loved it. 83 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:36.480 I don't know if you remember this. I did a karaoke song about the 84 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:42.519 little at a Comma Baby. Yeah, he liked that. He liked it. 85 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.680 He thought it was a riot. That's surprising because he's seems to be 86 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:53.800 really wanting to stay away from any controversy or any criticisms of anyone. And 87 00:07:53.879 --> 00:08:01.560 of course, sure karaoke atching was was not flattering towards career in particular. 88 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:05.240 Yeah, it wasn't too good. That's hilarious because it was funny. That 89 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.319 was and it's so funny you did that well, yeah, if you could 90 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:11.720 find it on YouTube, I don't know how the heck you find it. 91 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.920 That's cool that it turns out he saw And for people who don't know, 92 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:22.720 Gary Nolan is a stand He works at Stanford and you know he's an expert 93 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:28.439 when it comes to DNA, and he is also part of the Stars. 94 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:33.759 He's a consultant for them as well. Oh that's right. I forgot about 95 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.039 that part that he was part of that. Yeah, he's a microbiologist, 96 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:45.960 professor in microbiology and immunology at Stanford. Great background, he said. Even 97 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.919 though it was human, it still had some anomalies that they couldn't explain, 98 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.159 and so I guess this is probably where you're going to pick up. Yeah. 99 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.240 Yeah, So you know, it was compared to human and primate genomes 100 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:03.559 and determined to a human female, probably a fetus with a Chilean ancestry. 101 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.879 Although the dating initially estimated the bone age of the skeleton was between six and 102 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:15.519 eight years, I remember that. But researchers found that there remains had a 103 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:22.080 rare bone aging disorder that made them seem older than the person they actually belonged 104 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:26.799 to. So at first eight percent of the DA DNA did not match with 105 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:31.960 human DNA. Now researchers were able to That was because it was a degraded 106 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.919 sample, and now they have an improved analysis and it matched up to ninety 107 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:43.000 eight percent. So basically they go into the that was there's actually a paper 108 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:48.399 published on this, and I think there's fourteen people involved a lot of people 109 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:56.399 really got into this. There was doctor ATel Butte and he's he studied it. 110 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:07.279 There was Priscilla Chan and Mark Zuckerberg and he was a professor. Anyway, 111 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.240 they all got involved in, you know, really looking at this and 112 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:18.799 the mutations and deformities. There's skeletal dysplasia known as dwarf ism. That's all 113 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:24.480 part of it. Yeah. I think they said they found nine different isn't 114 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:31.120 it nine different kind of diseases or mutations that this thing had. So that's 115 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.000 why it was so strange. Yeah, I had like the ribs issue and 116 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:41.080 the joints and the elongated skull and all that. Well, they think there 117 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:46.120 is a possibility this is just speculation that it might have might have had to 118 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:52.639 do something with nitrate, the nitrate minds and exposure to that and you know, 119 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:58.399 through the parents, you know, I mean ahead of it, so 120 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.000 it could have something to do with that. But anyway, I thought it 121 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:05.200 was interesting they finally came out with, you know, it's a it's a 122 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:11.639 female. It is probably you know, just a fetus and just the aging, 123 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:15.639 you know, because that's what I think threw everyone off, was that 124 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:20.039 it seemed to be six to eight years old. And now they've they figured 125 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:26.200 that part of it out. Yeah. So I think it's what's interesting about 126 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:31.039 this story too, is that it's gotten all over the place, so national 127 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.120 geographic. I think was at least for me, the first I saw it 128 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:41.440 to the stars actually has a posting of an article written by Gary Nolan, 129 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.399 so you can hear from him directly on that to the stars. And then 130 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:54.240 there's several other articles in mainstream news going on about it. And what's interesting, 131 00:11:54.240 --> 00:12:00.720 at least from the National Geographic is is I guess they showed doctor this 132 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:05.279 information and they asked him, you know, they well, they showed him 133 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:09.840 the information, the results to show a look, it actually was a human 134 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:15.480 and uh fetus and with it they just had a lot of deformities. And 135 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.960 he said, nope, I still think it's an alien. Oh my goodness. 136 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.600 I know. Well he should sounds like him and Heimio to get together. 137 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:28.559 Yeah. I don't know how you could call yourself a researcher if you're 138 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:31.679 just going to ignore. And he's the one who got Nolan Nolan is in 139 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:37.639 his documentary, like you mentioned, serious it was. You know, he 140 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.960 said he would stand by the results that Nolan came up with, and that's 141 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:46.679 turning out to be completely untrue that he's not standing by Nolan's results, and 142 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:52.200 that's unfortunate. Yeah, and it points to a growing concern many of us 143 00:12:52.279 --> 00:13:00.480 have that doctor Greer's motivations in this field might not be you know, to 144 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:05.919 actually discover the truth, but perhaps to perpetuate what has become a big business 145 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:13.000 for him. I don't know what other reasoning he may have, or he 146 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.759 maybe just wants to believe so badly. I'm not sure what it is. 147 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:20.960 I shouldn't make accusations, but it's just unfortunate because he's got a lot of 148 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:24.960 followers, and it would be great if, you know, stuck to the 149 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:31.759 truth, because I'm sure there's interesting things to be discovered. Yeah, without 150 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:37.879 this, I think unacknowledged. That latest movie by him actually brought this into 151 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.399 it as well, a little bit from what I saw a little bit of 152 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:46.440 that. So Nolan first got interested because he had a friend that was interested 153 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:52.440 in the arab of extraterrest real life. And so that's how Nolan, you 154 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.799 know, got connected. He actually contacted Greer himself and said, you know, 155 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:01.279 he was a scientist and instead of the other way around, he wasn't 156 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:07.639 contacted by them, he contacted them directly, you know. And I know 157 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:11.559 he actually looked at there's another article out there where he speaks to it the 158 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.399 Child, the Star Child's Skull, and this was a few years ago. 159 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.679 Yeah, he did, and he determined that was human as well, But 160 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:26.240 of course Lloyd Pie kind of threw out his information. And then once Lloyd 161 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:31.360 Pie, the main investigator of that skull, passed away, Chase Kletzky took 162 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:37.879 over that investigation and then she began from the beginning, So I don't I'm 163 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:41.320 sure she was aware of Nolan's work, but she didn't reference it, and 164 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:45.720 they did their own work and they also determined that this skull was human. 165 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:52.240 So well, since we're on this subject, did you happen to hear like 166 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:58.840 the latest on that other that the latest thing that HEIMI was involved in. 167 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:05.159 I can't remember the name of the organization. Attention to well him or and 168 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:13.360 I don't mean to to you know, if you like Gaya, that's great, 169 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:20.039 but Gaya has not shown any inkling of actually being interested in doing real 170 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:26.080 research either or talking to true experts. So I don't really pay attention to 171 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:31.399 Guya Gaya or him honestly. So well, it's too bad, in my 172 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:37.600 opinion, it's too bad that so many people do you know, and there's 173 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:41.759 nothing that you know, you and I that we both try to have shows 174 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:46.960 that are well, you know, interesting, and we don't go way off 175 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:52.159 the fringe, and it just seems like it's it's too bad because you know, 176 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:56.360 someone may stumble across that and just you know, buy into it, 177 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:00.000 and a lot of people do. A whole lot of people do. And 178 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:03.759 I guess what can you do about that? You know, all we can 179 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:11.679 do is share information that is sourced incredible and not everybody to else do their 180 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:18.679 own things. That's all we can do. That's right, which reminds me. 181 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:27.080 There was a story recently on from the New York Meg New York magazine 182 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:34.919 about thirteen reasons to believe aliens are real? Did you read that? Yeah, 183 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:37.159 so, which is kind of weird. You know, this is a 184 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:44.879 big magazine and they put this together and it was in sections, so they 185 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:49.320 had you know, lots of different areas of like exoplanets, but they also 186 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:55.399 covered this latest DoD thing. Leslie was a little disappointed. She felt that 187 00:16:55.480 --> 00:17:00.120 they didn't cover it, you know, and the correct manner in that, 188 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.079 you know, she said, I never said anything about aliens in my New 189 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:07.920 York Times article, which she did, so, but you know, this 190 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.880 is all kind of a new area and a learning curve also for these a 191 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.640 lot of these people in the media, and it turns out that one of 192 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.720 my buddies, who you know, I travel with at these press junkets, 193 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.799 was one of the writers of that article. So we literally just had breakfast 194 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:29.319 with him, not even an hour ago, not even half an hour ago, 195 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:33.519 And so it's kind of funny. He said he didn't do any of 196 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.759 the UFO stuff. He only did the exoplanets portion, so we can't blame 197 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.720 him for that part. That at least that was inaccurate. But it's pretty 198 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:47.480 cool though that the article really was kind of a little bit of tongue and 199 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:49.240 tongue in cheek, but a lot of reasons why, you know, they 200 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:56.839 say we should take it seriously, So that was kind of cool. Yeah. 201 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.720 Overall, I think it was a good thing people think, and I 202 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.319 think that's one of the reasons our panel was so packed, is that all 203 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:11.039 of this news is really making people think more hardly about this topic. Yeah, 204 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.079 I think so. I felt like your your attendance, that your conference 205 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.759 was up too, you know, and there were people that I hadn't seen 206 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:23.960 in the previous years. Yeah. I think the percentage of people who had 207 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.640 never been to a UFO Congress conference was a little bit higher this year than 208 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.880 before. It's always pretty high at the Congress, but it seems like it 209 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:41.039 was a bit higher this time, right, right. So another article that's 210 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:42.680 come out, and people may have seen this because this story has kind of 211 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:51.319 been going on out there, is that there was this aircraft or two aircraft 212 00:18:51.480 --> 00:19:00.440 over in the Phoenix area that saw UFO and asy sent I believe it was 213 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:07.880 one of the Arizona newspapers had a story in it today talking about it, 214 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.359 and now they still haven't figured out what it was. That essentially they got 215 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.039 a response from the FAA, and the FAA says, we don't have any 216 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:22.400 more information than you can hear in this audio which was released of the pilots 217 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:27.039 talking about the situation, and they say we have no more information. And 218 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:32.880 in that audio, these guys essentially saw something above them, couldn't figure out 219 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:36.880 what it was. The control tower said there was nothing on radar, and 220 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:42.000 you know, someone even said must be a UFO and that was it. 221 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:48.720 So kind of intres commercial commercial airline, Yeah, at least one was. 222 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.599 They were American Airlines. AOL has a story on it today as well as 223 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:02.119 the Huffington Post. That's who else. The object was at forty thousand feet 224 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:11.759 and yeah, so AOL and Huffington Post have stories on this, and you 225 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:22.440 can hear the audio. The incident occurred on February twenty fourth. Well, 226 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:27.519 I'm actually surprised that they released the audio. Yeah, did you say the 227 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:32.200 FAA actually released them. I'm not sure who released the audio. Actually, 228 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:38.200 somebody else had retrieved that audio. I don't know that it says, but 229 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:47.400 one of the aircraft was an American Airlines passenger jet. I believe I told 230 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:51.000 you that. I sat next to a pilot that was an air Force pilot 231 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:56.039 originally but now he's an American Airlines pilot, and he and I had a 232 00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:02.000 conversation about UFOs and he didn't he was scared. He said he wouldn't talk 233 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:07.400 about it publicly, really, you know. So, yeah, he was 234 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:18.680 in a fifteen eighteen what are they hornet, Yeah, eighteen eighteen when he 235 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:23.440 had his encounter that he never reported to anyone. He just checked on radar 236 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:29.279 and it wasn't on radar. Hmmm, that's pretty interesting. But he said, 237 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:30.319 you know, he didn't want to talk about it publicly. You know. 238 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.759 I actually asked him on my show and he said he wouldn't even come 239 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:40.440 on anonymously. Wow, he's just afraid of his job, losing his job, 240 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:45.920 and that's I'm hoping that's gonna that's going to stop since you know, 241 00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:51.440 since the release of the knowledge of the Pentagon looking into it. Yep. 242 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.680 So one other story out there which is interesting too is that there has been 243 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:00.920 a detection and I think this one might be the strongest, they say, 244 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:06.599 of another one of those fast radio bursts from deep space and they still go 245 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:11.839 unexplained. So people may remember this that there have been these signals that have 246 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:17.160 been detected. There were some, there's been only a handful over the years. 247 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:22.799 But then there was a breakthrough through breakthrough the breakthrough initiatives started by the 248 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.440 Russian Yuri Melner, who has put some money into the kind of the SETI 249 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:37.240 project of searching for extraterrestrial intelligence, and he spent some money in some radar 250 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.960 issues, you know, to listen for stuff, and they captured a bunch 251 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:48.000 more of these fast radio bursts, and then just recently they caught another one, 252 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:52.319 so just in the last few weeks. So people are still curious as 253 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:59.680 to what these may be. There were in the original group, you know, 254 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:07.200 they discovered some of them were were a microwave from this one place, 255 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.279 I think it was in Australia where they were listening and at the same time. 256 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.400 Every day, you know, they would catch them and it turned out 257 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.519 to be just a microwave. But all of these new ones that they've been 258 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.720 finding, they haven't been able to discover what they are, and they've been 259 00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:30.400 captured by different dishes across the world, so now they usually for the most 260 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.319 part, it's kind of like UFO sightings. You know, most of them 261 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.920 can be described as something you know, natural or you know, have an 262 00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:42.039 explanation. That's kind of how I feel about the radio bursts and signals that 263 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:47.519 they find. They usually seem to figure it out what it is, even 264 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:52.440 though it's something they may have not ever heard before, so to speak. 265 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:57.160 Heard, but it usually ends up being something weird out in space. And 266 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:00.599 there's still probably a lot more to be discovered. So what are you saying? 267 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.920 This is nothing stuff? This is going to turn out to be nothing. 268 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.680 It could be. It's possible, man. We have to we have 269 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:17.720 to have to, you know, be prepared for that burst in our bubble, 270 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:22.279 aren't you? As always? I think I had a nickname for that. 271 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:27.319 Oh yeah you did, Yeah, I'm already down or something I forgot 272 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.839 that was last week. All right, Well, that's it for the news 273 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:33.880 and we're actually out of time, so thank you very much for joining us, 274 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:41.039 Martin, thank you. We'll be right back after this christ commercial break 275 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:45.960 if you're listening to kg R A, or after a short musical interlude if 276 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:52.400 you're listening to the podcast with our round table with Ben and Mark and Karen 277 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.759 and myself at Treeport in Boise. So we'll be right back after this commercial. 278 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:19.720 Welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, 279 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:25.039 and I am here. We are here at Hackfort semi live. I mean, 280 00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:27.720 we're recording it live, so but we recorded all the shows live, 281 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:32.240 so you can hear people and stuff in the background. Kind of a fun 282 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:38.119 ambiance. But I'm here with Mark de Antonio, Ben Hansen and the lovely 283 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.480 Karen Bard. I can say that, I guess because you're my significant other 284 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:48.319 otherwise, oh I better say so. Yeah, So okay, of course 285 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.720 Hackford is part of the larger Tree Fort here in Boise, Idaho. Yeah, 286 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:56.319 so I was gonna explain. We're in Boise, Idaho at something called 287 00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.680 Tree Fort and it's a music festival or a rich it was, and then 288 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:06.720 they created these other forts kind of like south By Southwest was there, Uh, 289 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:11.599 kind of their inspiration and they have a yoga fort, a food for 290 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.279 it, and a comedy for it, and uh, we're part of hack 291 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:21.799 Fort. So they asked I was doing a tech media talk and or a 292 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:23.559 panel, and they asked what else would be kind of cool? And I 293 00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:27.359 told him UFOs and they wanted to do a UFO tech So who did I 294 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:34.799 immediately think of markd' antonio and Ben Hansen. I thought you one of two 295 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.079 other guys, but then you settled for us. Isn't that what it was? 296 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:44.960 Well, originally I thought of John Smith and no just kidding, no, 297 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.160 no, no, no, you are primary and luckily you guys made 298 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:51.359 it. So let's go around the table and we'll go first to Mark, 299 00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:57.319 and we'll start off with your what you thought of the experience, because what 300 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:03.160 I thought was unique about this This is kind of a post Alizondo or post 301 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:08.960 DoD story of speaking to a non UFO. Kind of grew about UFOs and 302 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.680 we had a packed house and I think that I feel maybe that's because of 303 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:19.920 that New York Times story in recent relevations. I think people seem to feel 304 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:23.920 like maybe it's okay to be interested in UFOs. I have to agree with 305 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.640 that. Actually, you know what, when I walked in there, I 306 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.920 saw like ten people sitting, and then you know, I figured, all 307 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:36.720 right, we'll probably get maybe twenty because UFOs aren't necessarily something that will bring 308 00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:40.039 that out, you know, bring people out of the woodwork. But you 309 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:44.559 know, that's that was my perspective. But the problem is that we don't 310 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.839 know what people are thinking and what they're seeing. And I was proven wrong 311 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.480 when not only did the house get full, every seat taken, but there 312 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.759 were people sitting on every table around the room as a seat, and the 313 00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.759 stools and everywhere else and there were all there's still people standing and I couldn't 314 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.519 believe that. I mean, that was a fantastic, fantastic outcome. I 315 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.440 was amazed. You know. So now that the technology here, I mean 316 00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.519 there's all kinds of people doing three D printed stuff, there's virtual reality stuff. 317 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.680 It's really cool. That's the hack fork part. And of course there's 318 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.920 all the music that's going on elsewhere. You can hear music in the background. 319 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.720 But for me, I figured, well, you know, I'll go, 320 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:26.920 but who knows what it'll be like. But it turned out to be 321 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.440 more successful than I could ever have thought. Yeah, it's good to Ben 322 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:36.640 first and then then we'll go to you, honey. Yeah, I agree. 323 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.799 I think that it's always interesting when you go to these events that are 324 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:45.400 not UFO specific and trying to see how did people hear about it, what 325 00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:51.640 was their interest level. And we didn't really survey the room to see how 326 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:59.319 many people had heard of the d O D you know, like a revelation 327 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.359 this year, but because it was such a big year for UFOs, I 328 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.759 think it's been more in the news and people have been thinking about it. 329 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:10.319 I did kind of gaze and look at people's eyes, though, and a 330 00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:11.920 lot of them were nodding their heads like yeah, yeah, yeah, we've 331 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.920 heard this stuff. So they're they're indoctrinated, I guess you could say. 332 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:19.759 And they're not fresh newbies a lot of them. So you didn't feel like 333 00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:25.119 you had to step back and explain the whole history of where we've come from, 334 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:30.039 you know, with a project blue book and going way back, because 335 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:33.960 that's always a concern of mine, is that you start talking too technical with 336 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:38.799 people who don't go to these conferences specifically for UFOs, and you know, 337 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:45.839 start with like wow, but fourteen percent of people see objects that are what 338 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.480 is a UFO? You know? I was like, so I'm glad we 339 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.960 could just kind of jump into it. They seem to be really getting it, 340 00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:57.839 liking it, and we had a large diversity of different backgrounds there. 341 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:04.279 So we'll ask Karen, who was in the audience, what did you were 342 00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:08.319 you surprised? I don't know if I was surprised, I don't know. 343 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:12.000 I've had any expectations, but I was just really happy to see the turnout 344 00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:15.039 and the fact that it was supposed to be an hour and you guys, 345 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.359 it went on for two hours. So what I really liked is how well 346 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.599 Ben said. You know, they weren't They seemed to know a lot of 347 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:23.720 stuff, but I think most of these people probably were Internet. They got 348 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:27.200 their information from the Internet. So it was really nice to see this age 349 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:32.359 group. I mean, we're talking teenagers to twenty somethings mostly, and we 350 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:33.599 just don't see that at a lot of conferences. So it was really nice 351 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.039 to actually see these guys out and about and I think they were excited because 352 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:38.319 they've read all this stuff on the internet, but they haven't really had a 353 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.279 chance to go see a speaker, see or talk about it in public. 354 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.000 So I think a lot of these people might have been one of their first 355 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:51.039 UFO talks in public, and they were really excited that it wasn't just on 356 00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:52.920 the internet. And I think that's why they all stayed for an extra hour 357 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:57.480 asking questions, and they would have probably staid for another hour. That was 358 00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:03.400 very interesting how there was several people in the audience that ask questions that were 359 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:08.680 as good or better than what you would find from the quote unquote knowledgeable UFO 360 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:15.759 people that you would talk to. And that means to me and the sheer 361 00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:19.799 numbers that were in that talk that we did, the sheer numbers told me 362 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:25.599 that this is a group of people, this age group, as you said, 363 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.559 twenty somethings, Karen, that actually has a thirst for this kind of 364 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.680 knowledge. And that's something very important that tells us that our job is far 365 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:37.720 from done. We've got a long way to go, and I think it 366 00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.519 might have been And you know, maybe Ben, you could speak to this 367 00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.599 because you probably do more of this than the rest of us. Is that 368 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:52.160 panel format. I think it's important for younger people, I think they want 369 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.000 to interact more. They want to ask questions and have more back and forth 370 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:59.240 as opposed to like what we do at the Congress, which the old folks 371 00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:01.599 like, which is the lectures where you know, for an hour and a 372 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:07.960 half or an hour, somebody is, you know, imparting some great stuff 373 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:12.319 that they figured out, but it's longer and it's not as interactive, whereas 374 00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.799 it seems like the younger guys like the interactive and this say, is kind 375 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.720 of a more comic con type style. Yeah, that's a great observation. 376 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:25.960 I've done a number of these four comic cons, and you know, we'll 377 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.720 get several people who've done TV shows on the subjects and get them up there, 378 00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:36.480 and they it's a little bit more entertainment. You gotta kind of keep 379 00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:39.400 the crowd engaged a little bit. They don't like to sit there and just 380 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:45.079 watch power points, and that is kind of the new way to gather information. 381 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:50.960 They want to hear your opinion, but they kind of tune out if 382 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:55.240 you're just forced feeding them. So yeah, this is kind of a great 383 00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:59.759 interactive way, but it is different. I mean, when you come with 384 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.079 us specific lecture in mind, like this is what we're going to learn about. 385 00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:06.000 You know, they're like, well, great, we're in school again. 386 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:13.200 Yeah, because I think in their lives they're just more used to interacting 387 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.480 because if they do things online, they're commenting online, they're interacting with the 388 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:19.720 other people in school. They have to interact with their clickers at school, 389 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.400 so they're they're constantly like when they go to college, you have to buy 390 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:25.720 a clicker now, and they ask questions and you have to answer with your 391 00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:30.680 clicker. Oh yeah, so they can make sure that you're there. It's 392 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:36.000 a way to take attendance. So yeah, that's an I mean when because 393 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.440 when we went to college, we didn't have to go and we could still 394 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:42.839 get an a. But you can't do that anymore because I think adults, 395 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.359 adults were you know, parents were like, my kids aren't even going to 396 00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:49.720 school. We need to do something about that. So they came up with 397 00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:52.920 a way to make kids go to school now. But they're just used to 398 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.200 being more interactive in their daily lives. So and they have a ton of 399 00:33:55.279 --> 00:34:00.759 question It's really funny that all of us sold are like, what clickers they 400 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:07.359 have to ask questions? Not old, you're the oldest person at this table. 401 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:13.199 But look, let me live with my delusion please. But Karen has 402 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:17.119 two kids in college right now, so she would know the younger people listening 403 00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:23.119 to this are probably like those boneheads didn't know about clickers. Yeah, that's 404 00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:27.840 hilarious, But I think you know that is the key. And you know 405 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:30.719 people are always asking how do you get the younger people involved? How you 406 00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.519 get the younger people involved? And it was kind of funny. My cousin 407 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:40.280 Jason worked out a college and he started a college paranormal group and in move 408 00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:45.280 On, we were in Denver where Twich move On headquarters was there and they 409 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:49.920 wanted to interact more. He found that more people were involved and more people 410 00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:53.559 came if they did more interactive things. We brought that to move On and 411 00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:57.559 move On's like, no, no, I mean, why would we want 412 00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:00.760 these people who don't know anything, you know, being part of the talk. 413 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.880 They need to listen to us and learn from us who know everything, 414 00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:07.920 So they weren't willing to make those changes. So you know, those of 415 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:12.559 us who are in this field need to adapt in order to reach out to 416 00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.880 this these groups. That's why I think something like this is a really good 417 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:22.280 way to get out there and get some information out. When it came to 418 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.199 the other thing, which you said that people knew bits and pieces of different 419 00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:30.440 stuff, I think that's really interesting too, because it kind of means that 420 00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:37.320 maybe information about this topic is permeating out there more than we may even know 421 00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:43.239 into the public. I mean, it is part of social media and games 422 00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:45.599 and stuff like that. Do you guys think that may be the case. 423 00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:52.760 Well, my experience is that it is the case that a lot of the 424 00:35:52.920 --> 00:36:00.679 popular cultural shows and movies deal with the subjects, and it has had an 425 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:06.719 effect, a significant effect. There are people that talk about UFOs now that 426 00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:12.039 never have before it came to this festival. I had two people call me 427 00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:15.199 that have no concept of UFOs and say, hey, I saw a spot 428 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:17.760 on the news about UFOs. It was this, this, and this and 429 00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:21.400 that. We're talking about the UFO sighting. So they're coming out of the 430 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:24.840 woodwork to talk about it, which means they're being inundated with it in their 431 00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:30.719 news cycle. And that's actually promising. And if you talked about before, 432 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:34.800 and everyone at this table knows that you know the answer, the way, 433 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:38.480 we're gonna make sure that we're not regarded as tinfoil hat wearing freaks. When 434 00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.440 we talk about UFOs is when science catches up and says, well, yeah, 435 00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:47.639 science believes that there may be alien life that could be as intelligent as 436 00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:52.039 ours. Right now, we don't have that answer. What science believes now 437 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:54.000 is that we have life out there. That's me. I'm an astronomer. 438 00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:58.840 We know that. So I talk about life elsewhere. No one's going to 439 00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:00.840 disagree with that. What they disagree with is whether they can be here, 440 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:06.400 whether they've reached intelligence. See, those are big things, and then finally 441 00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:12.159 whether that would that capability, could they also move to different star systems and 442 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.559 have you know, will the same species show up everywhere else or somewhere else? 443 00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:19.920 Are we one of those species? You know, we might just be 444 00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:24.039 a zoo for all and we will be a zoo. Well. One of 445 00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:29.119 the most popular television shows on right now is X Files, and just watching 446 00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:34.079 the X Files, they talk about Roswell and just recently they had some of 447 00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:38.880 those geeky kids that might watch every episode in you know, deconstruct it. 448 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:43.519 There was like a cell phone message on one of the phones talking about Lee 449 00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:49.559 Spiegel's U n uh think about but that episode. But there was also the 450 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:53.960 yeah about the Granada un thing way back and it's talked about Alexando. So 451 00:37:55.039 --> 00:38:00.000 you know our popular television shows are giving kids away to see things and then 452 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:05.719 go investigate them, just figure out what they were. Ye. Yeah, 453 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.000 I slowed down the I paused. I was like, wait a second, 454 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:13.599 because on Moulder's phone you had to look at it carefully. It said something 455 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:17.559 like, uh, don't tell them anything about project blah blah blah, h 456 00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:28.159 Reid or whatever is like Harry's names, like yeah, yeah, and advancing 457 00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:32.760 the threat program project if they deny everything. Yeah, yeah, that was 458 00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:38.719 that was interesting. So and Chris Carter has always been good about working that 459 00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:44.519 stuff into there, so I mean he keeps up on it. But that's 460 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:49.840 been my the my main frustration with with trying to get this information out is 461 00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:54.559 that not just the millennials, but we all now have become grazers of information. 462 00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:59.800 We browse. We don't you know, We'll we'll pick up a little 463 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:05.199 me or something online and like oh yeah I heard that, you know, 464 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:07.039 the White House did this? And do we actually click and read the full 465 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:13.280 article? I think stats which other most people don't and they don't source it, 466 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.480 and so who knows where they're getting information. And you know, the 467 00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:22.400 term fake news works on both sides of the political spectrum, so it's like 468 00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:28.519 we're getting little pieces of hearing about the Navy had a program, the DD 469 00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:31.440 had a program, but do people explore it. That's my frustration is like, 470 00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:36.199 you know, I know there's so much info out there, but pick 471 00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:42.599 up a book. Whatever happened with reading first about the knowledge base that others 472 00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.400 have built for us. Let's see where we came from. Then start forming 473 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:51.440 your opinions. You know, we rely too much on Wikipedia and all this, 474 00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:53.880 so that when people come to these events all they might know is pop 475 00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:59.000 culture. They want to know more, but how many really put in the 476 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:04.599 effort, you know, to who knows? I mean, that's just it's 477 00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.039 just the way it is now. Yeah, that's a really good point. 478 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.880 And it's funny you say that too, because the first comic con we did 479 00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.440 was a Denver comic con that I ever had a table, and I had 480 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:19.840 a Colorado moofon table there. And speaking of the X files, X Files 481 00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:23.159 was on the air back then, and everybody was shocked that Moufon was real. 482 00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:27.800 They thought it was made up from the X files because it was mentioned 483 00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:30.559 in an X Files episode, but we were like every time we were there, 484 00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:34.760 we were the most popular table because once people realize mufon was real, 485 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.719 they're like, oh my gosh. And then we had a map with you 486 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:40.320 know, where the UFO sightings were in Colorado, so people love that. 487 00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.800 So they're all coming talking about UFOs and discovering, Wow, there really are 488 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:49.480 people out looking too this stuff, which is pretty cool. But the reading 489 00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.400 of the stories is a big deal. You know. In the other panel 490 00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.599 that I was part of, it was the media panel, and it was 491 00:40:55.679 --> 00:41:00.000 kind of how do you pitch a story to media? And all of it 492 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:06.000 we're kind of talking about. Sadly, we realize most people will read our 493 00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:09.440 headlines and not click on the link to read this story, and I just 494 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:13.519 feel like they get the gist from the headlines. So our point was to 495 00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:16.880 people who are pitching stories, think of the headline and don't write your press 496 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:21.119 release more than maybe a couple of paragraphs. It's got to be small on 497 00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.840 a concept and you got to think about a hot topic that's going to be 498 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:28.559 in the headlines. So, unfortunately, you're right, which gets me back 499 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:35.239 to your question. Actually, yeah, you you talked about how you know, 500 00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.800 people are starting to talk about how aliens are probably real. There are 501 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:42.360 aliens out there. Science is talking about that, but I always wonder, 502 00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.159 of course SETI is like, but they're not here because they're too far away. 503 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:50.440 But I'm not sure the public understands that. I kind of feel like 504 00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.639 when the scientists are out there saying ets are probably real, and I think 505 00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:59.920 the polls reflect this, that people don't understand the nuances because they haven't read 506 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.480 the details, are read the whole story, so they kind of feel like 507 00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.119 this whole idea of UFOs is kind of mixed in on it, and that 508 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:15.079 could be some of why people are more open to the topic. That's an 509 00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:19.920 interesting point, and but let's consider that for a minute. If you think 510 00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:23.559 about what SETI has done. Study says Shostak's done a wonderful job. They're 511 00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:29.320 trying to use that neutral hydrogen twenty one centimeter band. That's a narrow band 512 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:34.360 frequency in the universe that's not populated by a whole lot of natural phenomena, 513 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.639 so it makes perfect sense to try and use that band to try and communicate. 514 00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:42.079 But they're communicating at the speed of light. They're sending out signals that 515 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:45.559 are traveling at the speed of light one hundred and eighty six thousand miles per 516 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:47.639 second. That's seven times around the Earth in one second, So it seems 517 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:52.920 like that's pretty fast, But at that speed, it still takes four point 518 00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:57.239 three years to get to the nearest star Alpha Centauri system, right, So 519 00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:00.119 what that means to me is that light speed is too slow, oh, 520 00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:04.039 because it'll take one hundred years for a signal to go one hundred light years 521 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:06.800 and then if somebody responds, hey, hey, how you doing like a 522 00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:09.480 wave, it's gonna take a hundred years for that to come back. As 523 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:13.480 a civilization, Are we gonna be vigilant? Are we gonna be listening? 524 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.199 Are we gonna still be, you know, in the same mode we were 525 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:19.639 in when we sent them message, like we want to see if there's somebody 526 00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:21.760 out there. Is there gonna be someone one hundred years from now, then 527 00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:25.079 two hundred years from the return trip that's gonna be I'm still listening for you 528 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:30.360 to come back, you know. I mean, so light speed is not 529 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:35.039 the best way. And when when you talk about a civilization, that's that's 530 00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:38.800 trying to get to get to us. We've only been around as a reasoning 531 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:44.280 civilization, reasoning beings for if you think about our history maybe for the last 532 00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:51.039 fifteen twenty thousand years, okay, all right, And so in that situation, 533 00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:55.280 with that being the case, we already see as a as this young 534 00:43:55.360 --> 00:44:00.639 civilization in the universe, and we are young, okay, we already see 535 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:04.800 the possibility of going interstellar in just like one hundred or two years, one 536 00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:08.320 hundred or two hundred years and getting to the nearest star and not twenty thousand 537 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.679 years or nineteen thousand years like it might take now with our fastest speed, 538 00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:16.760 but in two weeks. And that's taking it easy because the technology could get 539 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:21.599 us there faster, but it could cause detrimental effects. So imagine that. 540 00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:24.679 We already see that. So clearly there's another civilization out there that may have 541 00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:30.280 already surpassed that and gone far past it to other propulsion techniques, things that 542 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:36.280 Michio Kaku, for instance, will discuss and string theory, and these could 543 00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:39.960 take us anywhere in the universe in minutes. And that sounds like pure science 544 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:45.119 fiction, and for us it is right now, well, Mark uh, 545 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:51.880 everyone knows it's warp speed, not light speed. Well, and that's that's 546 00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:55.320 the thing. That's that's which you know, when you know, we send 547 00:44:55.320 --> 00:45:00.559 a message and wait for a response. By the time the message gets there, 548 00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:05.599 our technology will away already be you know, far surpassing. And of 549 00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:12.360 course, if they're using propulsion systems that are able to jump between dimensions or 550 00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:17.199 you know, fold space time, then delivering the message in person is even 551 00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:23.440 going to be quicker. And then there's also the possibilities of course of we 552 00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:28.280 just watched Wrinkle and Time and that, which was one of my favorite books 553 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.719 as a kid, and the concept of being able to your mind being able 554 00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:37.159 to travel these distances, which could be a possibility. I mean, a 555 00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:45.320 lot of the people investigating consciousness, even physicists, are figuring there's perhaps a 556 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:49.360 component at the quantum level that our minds might be able to access, which 557 00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:52.559 of course can move those vast, vast distances. If you look at in 558 00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:57.719 a sense, aren't we a container for that consciousness? So if we learn 559 00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:01.199 how to breach the container, you could transfer it from one container to another 560 00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:06.119 possibly, or transfer it to a different medium maybe you know, take it 561 00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:08.679 to the universe and beyond or whatever. I mean, there's you know, 562 00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:14.440 it's just science to me. It's potential science we don't understand and don't know 563 00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.760 yet, So that's a science undiscovered. It's sort of what I call it. 564 00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:22.280 Yeah, so the potential is endless with that, so what the public 565 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:29.000 knows. And that's what's interesting though, is that, I mean moving into 566 00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:31.840 this world and I think that I feel like we're adjusting and you've got to 567 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:37.119 be ahead of the game. And I think some people in this field are 568 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:42.000 reticent to move because they like to be feel like they're in a you know, 569 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.440 kind of elite group. We're the only people in the know. But 570 00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:50.960 if this stuff becomes to be more publicly accepted, then we're not you know, 571 00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:54.519 then I embrace that. But I think a lot of people are hesitant 572 00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:59.079 to move there because they don't want it to be out for everybody. They 573 00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:01.400 want to keep it to them selves. I don't know, Ben, do 574 00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:07.840 you think that's a component that they they want to keep the knowledge for themselves, 575 00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:12.760 Like, yeah, you know, so that the UFO some people in 576 00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:22.000 the UFO community, I want to keep it just the UFO community. Okay, 577 00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:23.519 Well, well, I don't know. I don't know that I've really 578 00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:30.320 seen that. Yeah, it's kind of it's it's kind of hard to say. 579 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:35.880 I think that, how do you feel about this topic being more universally 580 00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:39.800 accepted? Oh well, I would love this topic more universally accepted because then 581 00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:43.559 you know, I wouldn't be the odd person in the party. I mean, 582 00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:45.159 it's still when I was well, yeah, I mean I was a 583 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:50.320 kid, I always say this. It was like it's very taboo, and 584 00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:54.880 I was very embarrassed to talk about it. And and I find myself being 585 00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:59.360 okay now on a flight sitting next to somebody like, well, what do 586 00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:00.559 you do? And I'm like, I lecture about this, like, oh, 587 00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:04.960 I don't care if they give me a slightly weird look, because most 588 00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.480 of them don't, you know, So I can talk about it in most 589 00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:17.800 settings because I think we've arrived at that point where it's usually socially acceptable. 590 00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:23.239 You still get the occasional person, you know, mocking, but that's kind 591 00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:27.039 of I guess the main reason. I'd like to see it more and more 592 00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:30.679 out there, and the more people get talking about it, then then we 593 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:35.800 have more I don't really like to call it a social movement, but we 594 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:44.119 have to to have that leverage in order to change whatever policies might you know, 595 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:47.039 we need to do to get more disclosure, to do all those things, 596 00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:52.519 and if people aren't talking about it, the government does not care to 597 00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:59.800 fix problems unless there's enough people whining, complaining, protesting putting pressure on them. 598 00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:07.119 They just don't. All right, we're actually out of time for this 599 00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:10.039 segment, so we'll take a short break. So for those of you listening 600 00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:15.599 on KGr A, you're gonna hear some commercials from some great sponsors who keep 601 00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:19.880 KGr A on the air, so check them out. Otherwise, those of 602 00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:24.920 you listening to the podcast will hit a short musical interlude, so stay tuned. 603 00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:32.519 We'll be back with Mark D'Antonio, Karen Brard, and Ben hurts Er. 604 00:49:37.000 --> 00:50:10.519 Stay tuned. All right, we are back with Open Mind UFO Radio 605 00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:15.800 here at Hackfort, which is part of Tree Fort in Boise. That's how 606 00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:23.199 they say. I heard the local say Boise idahoy where Boyce. I heard 607 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:31.440 boys also so and we were talking about this topic being more socially acceptable. 608 00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:37.679 Oh you, and Karen wants to set the mood for people. I just 609 00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:39.440 want ever to have a chance to see where we're sitting in the middle of 610 00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:43.920 a room, around circular room, and everywhere we look around. There's people 611 00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:50.000 doing virtual reality games. So we see people with these headsets on and have 612 00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.639 things in their hand, and there's like they're all over the room doing these 613 00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:58.480 virtual reality reality games. So it's very futuristic in here There go. And 614 00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:04.760 we were talking about the public accepting UFOs in this UFO ish environment that we're 615 00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:08.719 in right now, and Mark had some comment, Yeah, it's kind of 616 00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:13.480 interesting because when I get on a plane to fly someplace, and it's not 617 00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:16.800 like I fly once every few months. I fly fairly often, or I 618 00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:21.199 take a trip and go to another place and talk to people elsewhere. The 619 00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:22.960 bottom line is, they asked me, you know, well, what do 620 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:25.880 you do? I asked them, and they say, oh, they're this 621 00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:29.679 or that, and then they ask me what do you do? And I 622 00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:34.000 say, oh, I investigate UFOs. I'm the chief photo vide Wenaly. 623 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:38.400 It's for one of the largest UFO organizations on the planet. And you used 624 00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:43.079 to get greeted with oh, and then they turn away and you know, 625 00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:45.880 put the thing over their eyes and go to sleep or whatever. But now 626 00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:50.880 I get you know, when I was younger, I saw and now you 627 00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:55.400 hear their story. The stories are so prevalent throughout the people that they just 628 00:51:55.440 --> 00:52:00.880 never tell them. Okay, but they're so prevalent. There's an untapped plethora 629 00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:07.079 of stories out there that I think are really just phenomenal. I listened to 630 00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:12.159 this one older gentleman telling me about a sighting he had that changed his life, 631 00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:14.159 and I said, oh, have you ever told anybody about it? 632 00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:16.920 He goes, actually no, he says, I never knew who to tell, 633 00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:19.880 but you seem to be the person to tell. I said, well, 634 00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:22.039 I'm one of many. But yeah, that's really cool, you know. 635 00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:25.840 But I think that the whole culture is changing and people are starting to 636 00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:34.480 open up to that. So I think UFOs as just strange mystical objects has 637 00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:39.199 sort of come to an end, and now UFOs as potential envoys from distant 638 00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:45.800 stars and occupants advanced civilizations that can live and die and suffer consequences the same 639 00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:49.119 way as us. I think that's coming to fruition. I think that's what's 640 00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:53.079 happening. Yeah, you know, I was the reason we're here is because 641 00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:59.800 I do these this articles on science and entertainment and stuff like that, and 642 00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:02.159 so that's why they asked me to come. Because a mutual friend of mine 643 00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:07.320 who I go around on these things with asked me to be part of the 644 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:14.159 panel on that and then. But what was funny is I was really hesitant 645 00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:17.559 to share with these people my UFO interests. And I've always been hesitant in 646 00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:22.199 professional environments to share my UFO interests. Of course, I'm always outed, 647 00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:29.039 and with this group, I was a little surprised they were really into it 648 00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:32.320 and cool about it, you know, like Jennifer who invited me and ultimately 649 00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:37.639 got us all here. She writes for Forbes, but she's really into it, 650 00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:39.719 and you know, one day I'll talk to her because she hasn't written 651 00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:45.519 a story only because you know, she needs to find the credible information and 652 00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:49.159 source it and she's checking on it and she'll have a story coming out. 653 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.519 But it's funny, So now I'm kind of out with my UFO stuff with 654 00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:58.320 these these kind of writers and stuff. I was hesitant to go there with 655 00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:01.239 and I've always been as a tent, but Karen's less as a tent. 656 00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:06.360 And it's funny because she'll tell people or she'll talk with her family and then 657 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:08.519 I get embarrassed and I'm like, no, no, don't talk about that. 658 00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:14.360 But now that it's kind of her career. Because she owns the conference, 659 00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:19.840 she's, for better or worse, not shy to wear her alien sweaters 660 00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:22.400 and T shirts and stuff. Even though her dad is not into this. 661 00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:28.960 He was actually what a major colonel in the Air Force, and he's you 662 00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:31.400 know, definitely looks down his nose at this sort of thing. Although he's 663 00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:35.159 pretty cool about it. He's better about it now that we're more friendly. 664 00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:39.280 Alien T shirt to the general. Oh really, so here say that on 665 00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:44.639 the air. But I also want to ask you. I mean, you 666 00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:51.840 don't seem to be shy about you know, you're owning the UFO conference. 667 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:57.199 Why and do you think have you had any negative repercussions from family or otherwise. 668 00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:02.119 Well, I'm not shy to because it's not it's science. It's something 669 00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:06.440 that's happening out in our world. People are seeing it, and I believe 670 00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:08.400 them. So I'm going to report it, and I'm going to give people 671 00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:13.000 a venue to report what they see. And people who haven't interested it. 672 00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:16.559 So I think it's that I don't want to perpetuate the taboo, and by 673 00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:20.800 being shy, that would be perpetuating it. That oh it's not okay to 674 00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:22.280 talk about it. I should be embarrassed, and I don't feel that that's 675 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:28.400 true. And what was your other question, Oh, my dad, Yeah, 676 00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:30.920 I think it's so funny. Of course, you know I was wrong 677 00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:37.039 and stupid and stuff before I started going out with Alejandro. But then because 678 00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:44.599 my parents always find more credibility in my significant other than me, So now 679 00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:45.920 that it's you know, you're believing it, and then it's okay to believe 680 00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:50.320 in it. And he actually is wearing an alien one of my alien t 681 00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:53.400 shirts to the gym now, so that is going from zero to one hundred. 682 00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:59.280 So I got to give him credit for at least supporting me. That's 683 00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:02.000 hilarious. So and then next, you know, one thing I want to 684 00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:07.679 get into with you with especially with you two Mark and Ben, is I 685 00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:13.519 haven't had you guys on the show since the New York Times article. So 686 00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:17.840 I'm curious about your takes because some people might know. Mark has had put, 687 00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:23.119 of course his critical eye to some of these videos. I think some 688 00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:30.159 people may think that you're kind of calling question to the whole program. He 689 00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:34.800 doesn't like me using the word debunker, although, like I've explained before on 690 00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:37.159 my show, I think at debunker is a good thing. It's someone who's 691 00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:44.639 trying to critically analyze stuff. So what is your overall feeling about the news 692 00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:47.480 that's come out. Well, you know, you look at the New York 693 00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:53.760 Times article and the other releases by To the Stars Academy and the d O 694 00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:59.719 D and what you notice is that, well, the big news to me, 695 00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:02.719 even the bottom line of the video is the video didn't really tell us 696 00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:07.679 much. But it's one part of the story, and so you have to 697 00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:09.280 let it stand on its own. If it doesn't stand on its own, 698 00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:13.000 you have to move on to the next part of that story to see what 699 00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:16.119 else can stand on its own. Well, in these cases, all these 700 00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:19.400 releases, all three of them, did not stand on their own to me, 701 00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:22.119 right, whatever else comes along, we'll see, all right. And 702 00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:27.760 because we only see one tiny little piece of video from an overall video that 703 00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:31.440 went from for many minutes or more so. But my take on that is 704 00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:37.760 that you just have to keep maintaining a critical eye on the thing that you 705 00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:40.480 are a specialist about. If you try to deviate. If I tried to 706 00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:45.719 go down to voice analysis to try and figure out what the pilots were real 707 00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:49.519 or not, I'm not qualified to decide if they are. I have an 708 00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:52.119 opinion of that based on what I'm hearing, but my opinion is slanted by 709 00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:57.079 everything else I know that I didn't learn from other specialists in that arena. 710 00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.119 Perhaps you have to be careful about that. Your opinions are formed out of 711 00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:05.559 your preconceived notions, and that's the thing that kills a lot of people this 712 00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:09.519 way, preconceived notions. You have to go into this open and otherwise you 713 00:58:09.559 --> 00:58:15.960 will make incorrect assumptions and you will end up becoming you know, well, 714 00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:21.079 you'll end up going down the wrong path basically. And then I also want 715 00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:25.719 your perspective though, on the idea the revelation now that indeed the government has 716 00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:30.320 been looking into UFOs. Actually I forgot to mention that that's actually a very 717 00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:35.960 important thing. The biggest revelation that came out of all this is the revelation 718 00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:42.320 itself the government has been looking into these. It was a sponsored government program 719 00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:46.400 when they had always been saying they weren't looking, and now we know they 720 00:58:46.400 --> 00:58:52.480 were. Now there's two reasons for that. Perhaps one, they were keeping 721 00:58:52.519 --> 00:58:53.679 it secret the whole time, and they're not going to share, not going 722 00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:55.639 to share, not going to share. You know, go through that whole 723 00:58:55.719 --> 00:59:02.079 classification thing. The other reason potential is that they didn't know what some of 724 00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:05.679 the other branches of the service were doing, or they didn't know about these 725 00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:08.320 programs, and so when they make an announcement from one agency, well, 726 00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:14.119 that agency doesn't speak for everybody, although they may think they do, and 727 00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:16.679 that could have been part of the problem. So maybe we just never heard 728 00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:22.239 about it because it was being kept quiet within that one agency. Then when 729 00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:27.280 Alessando got the stuff out and brought the stuff to light, that changed everything. 730 00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:29.760 And then the government says, oh, yeah, we've been investigating UFOs, 731 00:59:29.800 --> 00:59:31.679 and they probably look at each other and go, apparently, you know, 732 00:59:31.760 --> 00:59:37.159 they don't really know for sure. Yeah, good point that I think 733 00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:43.840 is the Yeah, one of the biggest revelations is how disorganized this seems to 734 00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:47.519 be. I mean, it's like, I wasn't so shocked that they were 735 00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:53.239 officially investigating something, but to the rest of the world when it comes out, 736 00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:58.679 it's like the twenty four hour news cycle. It just amazes me so 737 00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:01.920 much how you could come out with this big scandal anything. Now, any 738 01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:07.679 any you know, government agency can have a scandal against it and within a 739 01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:10.360 couple of days or weeks, it's like, gone, this is like twenty 740 01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:14.920 two million dollars, which isn't big to the government, but you know it's 741 01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:17.960 like over several years. Oh yeah, guys. You know, they they 742 01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:22.800 micro analyze everything the government does, right, and people, you know, 743 01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:27.679 this outcry of like why are we spending money on you know, trying to 744 01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:31.519 save the desert tortoise? You know, we can't build land here or there 745 01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:38.039 whatever, And here's twenty two million dollars where I didn't really hear people complaining 746 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:43.280 so much that we spent it looking for aliens, which was just weird to 747 01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:46.880 me. You know, yeah, it's it is good, but it's like 748 01:00:49.039 --> 01:00:52.480 that both sides of political spectrum, they're just kind of like, well, 749 01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:55.079 that's it's kind of weird. But okay, twenty two million dollars who cares, 750 01:00:55.639 --> 01:01:00.480 right, But but yet us within the UFO community and it's like, 751 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:06.159 okay, well, we want some some fiduciary responsibility here, what did you 752 01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:09.360 do with it? You got people like George Knapp saying, okay, we've 753 01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:14.400 established you were doing it. Now that information belongs to us, right, 754 01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:21.599 because you, for the most part aren't saying that the program's classified. So 755 01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:27.599 you say you have materials they were tested in big A Low's basement or something 756 01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:30.679 like. What was the result of that? Tell us. If there's nothing 757 01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:35.360 to it and you close down the program, then tell us. And I 758 01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:37.800 think it's our money. We deserve to know. And that's where I don't 759 01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:40.920 really see people with the outcry of that. Either it's just people like George 760 01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:45.599 Knapp or people are like, look, guys, here's the implication. We 761 01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:50.280 had a study, they said it was official, So are we any closer? 762 01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:57.199 Yeah, those are really great points because they have you know, the 763 01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:02.320 media, and most people have accepted and I think they only can conceive of 764 01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:07.440 that the higher level. Okay, the government looked into UFOs, they found 765 01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:10.599 it's a legitimate thing. They spent twenty two million. That sounds like about 766 01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:15.840 how much it would cost. We're done, whereas of course those of us 767 01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:22.920 geeks UFO geeks are scrambling for the details and dying for the details, and 768 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:29.000 so we need to deats and we don't have any documents yet. But I 769 01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:32.199 mean, this is a really positive thing, that the fact that yeah, 770 01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:36.199 there were some people saying, oh I don't believe it, but nobody was 771 01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:40.320 saying how dare they spend all this money on UFOs. Nobody was saying that. 772 01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:44.400 People were saying, oh wow, that's cool. Like so people accepted 773 01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:51.239 it. So the government probably should feel very safe. And if they decided, 774 01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:54.400 yeah, let's start a public you know, out in the open UFO 775 01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:58.360 department, I don't think anyone would care. I mean, I think people 776 01:02:58.360 --> 01:03:01.840 would be for it. Now I agree with that. Next, I think 777 01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:07.719 that you're right because I mean, for many years people have supported the mutual 778 01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:12.800 UFO network. UH. And for many years people have been attending you know, 779 01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:17.239 the the UH, the International UFO Congress and many other UFO related conferences. 780 01:03:17.719 --> 01:03:22.400 Okay, yet your attendance hasn't been dropping at all, you know you, 781 01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:25.519 Your attendance has been going up if anything. So I think that this 782 01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:30.800 points out that the public is interested. And if you look at most of 783 01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:37.159 the blockbuster movies, half of them are alien space related. So this is 784 01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:42.280 something that people are interested in. Now, I want to ask you guys 785 01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:49.199 this, what if the government opens and new for lack of a better you 786 01:03:49.239 --> 01:03:54.239 know example, a new project blue book, a new public facing organization that 787 01:03:54.320 --> 01:03:58.239 then is going to have to deal with the pr kind of aspect of this. 788 01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:03.239 Uh. Your thoughts on that. I knew you're gonna ask this because 789 01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:09.880 this is what we talked about yesterday. And I don't have much hope in 790 01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:15.400 it. Look at look at what a feel good kind of a front agency 791 01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:19.800 you know, Bluebook was program. It was like, we're doing something about 792 01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:23.599 it. Guys, we know you're scared. We got it under control. 793 01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:28.440 But we all know what it was. It was. But they also expected 794 01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:30.119 answers, I think, you know, and to the end of it, 795 01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:35.880 and when the Condon report comes out and all that, they basically well, 796 01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:40.519 there's only a couple handful of things we couldn't figure out otherwise, not a 797 01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:44.800 threat national security the end, you know. And I have no hope, 798 01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:48.119 no expectation they're gonna come up with anything different this time. That's what the 799 01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:51.239 government has been telling us forever, forever. I don't need them to tell 800 01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:55.440 me it's a threat. I don't care to be honest, you know, 801 01:04:55.599 --> 01:04:59.639 because no, we were not seeing our ships blown out of the sky, 802 01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:03.559 our our jets. So what are they going to say to that. No, 803 01:05:03.719 --> 01:05:06.239 it's it's they're not going to come with it on conclusion. What I 804 01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:11.639 want to know is, what have you known? What have you been keeping 805 01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:15.199 from us. And if you don't know, that's fine, Let's sit down, 806 01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:19.400 let's talk about it. Let's talk about, you know, something such 807 01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:24.760 as roswell, and let's stop the bs. Let's stop going back to changing 808 01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:28.480 it every time. You know, their story doesn't hold water. If it 809 01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:30.880 really was just one of our top secret projects, prove it to me. 810 01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:36.199 You know, that's what I want to hear from a new agency, someone 811 01:05:36.199 --> 01:05:41.559 that comes along from here on out. Let's be above board. But I 812 01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:47.440 think we also need to reevaluate everything that the Brookings Institute study said about, 813 01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:53.599 you know, utter chaos and the destruction of society, because we don't know 814 01:05:53.639 --> 01:05:57.400 that anymore. I think we are in a different time, and if we 815 01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:00.239 don't have the answers, I think it's okay for the government to start coming 816 01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:04.559 forward and say, look, guys, last night, our jets were scrambled. 817 01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:10.880 We'd chase something. It was weird, go back to watching the Kardashians. 818 01:06:11.079 --> 01:06:14.480 Okay, but but at least we're being honest with you, you know, 819 01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:17.360 And let's start with that first. And then if ultimate disclosure does happen, 820 01:06:17.599 --> 01:06:20.480 it's not a complete shock that we're you know, in the dark about 821 01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:29.280 it. That is a great point. Do you have what about you? 822 01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:33.639 Yeah, a new agency, Mark, what would you have a feeling about 823 01:06:33.639 --> 01:06:38.639 that? Well, if there was a new agency out there, then I 824 01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:44.280 would probably say I'm no longer moving to Arizona because I'm going to put in 825 01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:47.760 my application with them. Uh, and then of course go all over the 826 01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:55.440 place. There's actually I currently have a potential opportunity to to through some someone 827 01:06:55.480 --> 01:07:01.679 that I don't even know actually, but it's a benefactorial type thing to go 828 01:07:01.760 --> 01:07:05.119 around and do these different investigations all over the place. And I hope that 829 01:07:05.159 --> 01:07:11.000 actually comes to fruition because that would be very very cool. I'd like to 830 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:14.440 do that. But a new agency, you know, again, it comes 831 01:07:14.440 --> 01:07:19.639 down to under the auspices of whom who is going to be monitoring this agency 832 01:07:19.960 --> 01:07:24.280 and deciding what the agency can then release. And we're back to the same 833 01:07:24.320 --> 01:07:28.440 thing. It has to be something that's not an agency per se. It 834 01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:32.559 has to be an organization that has a lot of power. So an organization 835 01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:40.079 perhaps operated by an Elon Musk or Richard Branson, that makes up an organization 836 01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:47.320 to actually produce results, you know, and isn't beholding to the government maybe 837 01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:50.800 you know, well, I know that to the Stars Academy was that idea. 838 01:07:51.599 --> 01:07:55.280 It has a lot of very important people in it, people that were 839 01:07:55.440 --> 01:07:59.519 in the in this arena Karen mentioned to the Stars Academy. I think that's 840 01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:04.639 important. That's a start, you know, But there's nobody in that organization 841 01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:10.519 that is a front person that actually has a lot of power. There's people 842 01:08:10.599 --> 01:08:15.039 that have the eye and ear of a popular culture, but you see, 843 01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:18.760 there's no one with a lot of power and money up there. See if 844 01:08:18.760 --> 01:08:21.560 and Elon Musk was doing this, the face of two of the Stars, 845 01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:25.840 for instance, would be very different than what we see now. There'd be 846 01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:29.600 a lot more formalization. There'll be a lot more investigation, there be a 847 01:08:29.600 --> 01:08:32.960 lot more analysis, to be a lot more of data, I'm sure. 848 01:08:33.319 --> 01:08:36.600 And Karen wants to talk. She's reaching and she's grabbing the phone. That's 849 01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:42.680 hurting me. They're lying, but I mean, yeah, to the Stars 850 01:08:42.680 --> 01:08:47.319 Academy, their goal is to do all that researching and you know, and 851 01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:53.079 money, well, and they're getting there, they're trying and everybody, you 852 01:08:53.079 --> 01:08:56.720 know, it is a corporation that you can buy shares in and be a 853 01:08:56.760 --> 01:09:00.119 part of if you feel that that's something you want to do. But I 854 01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:05.760 mean that's their you know, a goal is to start doing investigations. All 855 01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:12.479 right, Well, surprisingly we are pretty much out of time already. Oh 856 01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:15.520 so, you know what I would be happy with, especially thinking of what 857 01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:18.920 you all said, and maybe this would be the most practical approach for the 858 01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:25.119 government is to at least come up with some new memos instead of these bs. 859 01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:28.640 You know, we're not interested in UFOs. We shut down the program 860 01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:31.600 in nineteen sixty nine. We haven't looked at UFO since, which is just 861 01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:39.760 a total flat out lie. At least modifying their statement on UFOs to be 862 01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:44.720 accurate that, yes, we have had some cases, we've investigated those, 863 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:48.680 we are looking into it. Thus far, we don't have maybe any reason 864 01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:53.159 for alarm, but we do keep an eye on these things, which is 865 01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:57.439 the truth and would be accurate. And then they don't even have to create 866 01:09:57.479 --> 01:10:01.319 a department. They can maintain their current and you know, structures and levels 867 01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:08.159 of secrecy. But at least that would be nice. And I think I 868 01:10:08.159 --> 01:10:13.239 would nominate you to be the new government spokesperson for the company for that. 869 01:10:14.199 --> 01:10:21.880 Oh, thank you, honey, Now I'm blushing, all right, Well, 870 01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:26.520 thank you guys so much for joining me. And this has been a 871 01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:29.640 great weekend. We'll have a lot more fun. We'll probably have some pictures. 872 01:10:29.800 --> 01:10:32.239 Oh yeah, Karen talked about how cool it is here, and there's 873 01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:36.720 this little screen that you can move around in front of it and it kind 874 01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:42.479 of makes you look like this seventies music video, and so you can see 875 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:47.880 Mark. I think those kind of things these movements he was doing were dancing 876 01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:53.239 or at least moving across the screen. I think it was more like some 877 01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:56.560 kind of seizure or something I was having. I do want to mention one 878 01:10:56.600 --> 01:11:00.720 thing though, Outside this place, this is a really cool place. Not 879 01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:03.000 just inside is pretty cool, okay, but outside, yeah, it does 880 01:11:03.079 --> 01:11:06.800 Bois rocks Man, because outside there's a slide you can go down, big, 881 01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:11.399 gigantic slide many stories tall, and you know the bean bangua. You 882 01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:15.319 slide down and then you've got a spiral slide that goes down five stories and 883 01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:24.039 it's clear you go first. So market's excited about the slides and the swings 884 01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:28.720 and the stuff like that. Did you have any final comment, Ben, 885 01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:34.279 No, not really. I think no. I would. I would like 886 01:11:34.359 --> 01:11:39.600 to see just more people coming to these conferences, no matter what they are, 887 01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:44.920 because it's like a town hall meeting is kind OF's talk about it and 888 01:11:45.319 --> 01:11:51.159 get people together and like minded and sure ideas. All right, Oh yeah, 889 01:11:51.279 --> 01:11:55.199 board games are back where. That's one thing that I discovered, although 890 01:11:55.239 --> 01:11:58.800 we should have known because your girls played board games with their friends, so 891 01:11:58.840 --> 01:12:01.000 it's kind of interesting. It's the social thing is getting back to board games, 892 01:12:01.159 --> 01:12:04.960 including D and D and stuff. That was super geeky. All right, 893 01:12:05.239 --> 01:12:13.399 thanks guys, Thank you so much. To Mark D'Antonio, the mouf 894 01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:18.159 On photo and video analyst. He also has a website, FX Models because 895 01:12:18.199 --> 01:12:24.800 he makes really cool models, even for the defense, for TV commercials, 896 01:12:24.880 --> 01:12:30.840 movies, all kinds of cool stuff. To Ben Hansen also who you can 897 01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:33.840 just google his name and find him, but he does night Vision Optics where 898 01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:41.840 he sells night vision equipment he does like the night vision skywatches at the UFO 899 01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:45.279 Congress. And to Karen Brard who owns the UFO Congress. But thank you 900 01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:48.720 all for joining me. That was a lot of fun. Tree Fort was 901 01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:54.199 a lot of fun. So thank you to those of you who were emboising 902 01:12:54.199 --> 01:12:58.199 and came and checked us out. So that was really cool to see some 903 01:12:58.239 --> 01:13:02.359 of the listeners and some people who are familiar with the topic and with us 904 01:13:02.359 --> 01:13:06.680 who were able to join us and say hi and thank you to tree Fort, 905 01:13:06.760 --> 01:13:12.439 Genessa who helped us at tree Fort, and Jennifer Kite Powell, who 906 01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:15.000 was a person who got us there. So it was a lot of fun. 907 01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:19.319 Anyway, I want to say, there's some other cool stuff you should 908 01:13:19.399 --> 01:13:24.800 check out. All of the news at Martin of Podcast UFO I talked about 909 01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:29.800 at the beginning of the show you can find at Openminds dot tv. Also 910 01:13:30.119 --> 01:13:33.479 the UFO Congress. We have the video portal for the Congress and we have 911 01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:39.039 lots of new videos up there. We have the Luise Alsando presentation, the 912 01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:44.079 entire thing. We have Travis Walton and that's an amazing talk with the first 913 01:13:44.119 --> 01:13:46.520 police officer who was on the scene and Travis Walton's brother. A lot of 914 01:13:46.560 --> 01:13:49.439 people said that was their favorite. I think Martin said that was his favorite. 915 01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:54.640 And then we also have Susie Hansen up there who got a standing ovation, 916 01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:58.359 so she was a lot of people's favorite there at the Congress, and 917 01:13:58.399 --> 01:14:00.880 we'll have more and more going out. We're gonna have them going up fast 918 01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:05.359 and furiously. So go to the video portal. You can go to ufocongress 919 01:14:05.359 --> 01:14:09.680 dot com to find that and be sure to register. It's only a few 920 01:14:09.720 --> 01:14:14.159 bucks and you have access to hundreds of great lectures, including you know, 921 01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:17.279 ones like Bob Lazaar or Zakha Vala which are very rare. But I want 922 01:14:17.279 --> 01:14:21.039 to thank Caleb Hanks for the opening end closed music. I want to thank 923 01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:25.560 Systematics for the pumper music, and I want to thank you the listener for 924 01:14:25.600 --> 01:14:30.239 being here. We'll have another show next week and until next time, Adio 925 01:14:30.359 --> 01:15:16.319 smooth Chuccos, you are mos.