1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,760 murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 6 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,120 Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,840 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,880 manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:45,920 crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly and 10 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,920 I'm Bill Thomas. It's a hot one here in coastal Virginia, and apparently 11 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,240 it is up there too. And what do we call it? Northwest Connecticut? 12 00:00:54,320 --> 00:01:00,039 Okay, sort of an our version of hot for our listeners across the 13 00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:07,280 country and around the world. Is eighty six degrees fahrenheit. And what's it 14 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,599 doing in Virginia? It is ninety five actual degrees fahrenheit with a heat index 15 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:17,560 of one hundred and ten, which means I'm not going running for the foreseeable 16 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,760 future. No, unless you go early in the morning when it's cool, 17 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,640 and not even then because it's also unfortunately way too humid here. Ye, 18 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,439 there is nothing good about this weather. Unfortunately. No, it is summertime. 19 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:37,079 I was talking to somebody this morning who has a house in Arizona into 20 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,920 Scottsdale, and they said it was one hundred and fifteen degrees in Scottsdale. 21 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:47,200 They're here in Connecticut for the summer. There are people that are fortunate enough 22 00:01:47,239 --> 00:01:51,519 to be able to split their time between beautiful Scottsdale, Arizona seven months of 23 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:55,120 the year, and then the northwest corner of Connecticut, which is I think 24 00:01:55,319 --> 00:02:00,000 equally beautiful for five months of the year. It's all civilized for our friends 25 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,280 in the southwest part of the United States. Out one hundred and fifteen degrees. 26 00:02:05,079 --> 00:02:07,920 I was complaining about the heat earlier on social media, and a friend 27 00:02:07,959 --> 00:02:09,599 of mine said, wait, aren't you from Arizona. I said, no, 28 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,080 I'm from here. I lived in Arizona, and because I have lived 29 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,400 in both places, I can tell you it does not matter that it is 30 00:02:16,439 --> 00:02:21,879 a dry heat one hundred and fifteen degrees is still awful. And it is 31 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,599 possible, by the way, because when I got to Arizona, I did 32 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:29,840 check. You can bake cookies in your car. It is possible, really 33 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,000 bake cookies, Yes, it is. It is possible to bake cookies in 34 00:02:32,039 --> 00:02:38,280 your car if you leave them in a closed car long enough, it is 35 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:40,080 possible. I tried to frying an egg on the sidewalk. That does not 36 00:02:40,199 --> 00:02:44,240 work nearly as well. But you can make cookies in your car. Well. 37 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,159 On that curious note, I guess we should get started. We had 38 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:53,919 some very interesting case breaks here in the last month or so, especially when 39 00:02:53,960 --> 00:03:00,960 we learned about the identification of a now deceased suspect in the nineteen ninety six 40 00:03:00,039 --> 00:03:05,759 murders of Julie Williams and Lolly Winans. That case took an even more unexpected 41 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,560 turn just a couple of days ago, when, seemingly out of the clear 42 00:03:08,599 --> 00:03:15,319 blue sky, we received a link from a close colleague to an article that 43 00:03:15,439 --> 00:03:21,120 stated that Darryl David Rice, who had long been a main suspect in the 44 00:03:21,199 --> 00:03:25,319 murders of Juli Williams and Lolly Winans, had very unfortunately been struck and killed 45 00:03:25,319 --> 00:03:30,039 by a car mere days after his exoneration in this case, and that is 46 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:35,159 news. I think that threw both of us for a loop, completely unexpected, 47 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:39,039 and we have to thank Courtney Stewart, a longtime journalist in Charlottesville, 48 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:46,759 friend of the pod, and I've also appeared on her podcast and done radio 49 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:51,879 interviews with her. She's a radio host in Charlottesville. I think there was 50 00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:57,599 some local coverage of Daryl David Rice's untimely demise, when we'll get into details 51 00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:00,199 in a second. As far as I know well, Courtney was the first 52 00:04:00,199 --> 00:04:06,560 person to break the news in Virginia. It hasn't gotten as much coverage as 53 00:04:06,719 --> 00:04:12,680 I would like to have seen, and I still find it really shocking that 54 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,680 Darryl David Rice was struck and killed by a car while on his bicycle in 55 00:04:17,759 --> 00:04:23,000 Missouri, and it was reported to have taken place the evening of July fifth. 56 00:04:23,959 --> 00:04:27,120 So what we'd like to do is we would like to anchor our coverage 57 00:04:27,399 --> 00:04:31,959 with a story from The Daily Progress by reporter Has Spencer. We're going to 58 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:38,240 go through walk you through the particulars here. We'll both offer color commentary as 59 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,120 wanted and needed and required, and we'll go from there and talk about the 60 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,240 ins and outs of this and why this is so very odd. One thing 61 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,199 I'll mention too, Hawes Spencer is a name I've known for years but had 62 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:57,240 only recently connected with. He's a longtime journalist himself in Charlottesville, and those 63 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,879 of you that are from Virginia may remember the the newspaper The Hook, which 64 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:06,879 was a weekly alternative newspaper in Charlottesville which did some really good coverage of a 65 00:05:06,959 --> 00:05:13,639 number of issues. In particular, when you go back and look for older 66 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,399 articles on the Julie Williams Lolly Winen's murder, the Shenandoah murders, as well 67 00:05:18,439 --> 00:05:24,279 as the Roe twenty nine stalker case, many of those articles are written by 68 00:05:24,439 --> 00:05:30,319 Courtney Stewart and the editor at that time was Hawes Spencer. So both of 69 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:36,040 these journalists have long histories with this case and know it quite well. Very 70 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:42,120 interesting to reconnect with Haes Spencer just in the past few weeks before the news 71 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,560 about Darryl Rice's passing, and now he's writing about this case again after a 72 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:53,800 number of years. We should also mention that we have been doing guest shots 73 00:05:53,920 --> 00:06:00,639 on some of our other podcast Colleagues podcasts with regards to not only the Shenandoah 74 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,439 case, but also what happened to Daryl David Rice. We are going to 75 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,920 include links on our Facebook pages and our show notes to Crame Analyst and to 76 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:13,079 Real Crime Profile where we've been doing guest shots on both of these. If 77 00:06:13,079 --> 00:06:16,079 you want to get to double the coverage, we will make sure that we 78 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,000 have links to all of those in our show notes. We'll go ahead and 79 00:06:20,079 --> 00:06:24,480 kick this off. This is from the Daily Progress from Haz Spencer. This 80 00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:28,519 is from July eighth, twenty twenty four. The headline reads, weeks after 81 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,040 he was exonerated in Shenandoah murder case, Darryl Rice struck and killed by car 82 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,879 and the subhead a mere fifteen days after his exoneration. It's unclear if he 83 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:43,959 even knew his name had been cleared. One interesting observation, people like Kristin 84 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:49,399 Dilly and Bill Thomas, Haes, Spencer, Courtney Stewart and other journalists and 85 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:56,680 of course his legal team are using the word exonerated. Kristin, you pointed 86 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,120 out in our last week's episode, where were discussing the lack of clarity in 87 00:07:00,199 --> 00:07:08,560 these recent press conferences. We're using the word exonerated or exoneration. It's quite 88 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:14,959 notable that the FBI refuses to use words like exonerated. I think that compounds 89 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,720 the tragedy of Daryl Rice being hit and killed in the middle of a significant 90 00:07:19,759 --> 00:07:26,240 development. I think that's fair. In the Shenandoah case, his name has 91 00:07:26,279 --> 00:07:31,319 been attached to that case for over twenty years. There's a real tragedy mixed 92 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,560 in here, which we'll get into as we take a look at the article. 93 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,639 Hey, the article begins just fifteen days after he was cleared of culpability 94 00:07:40,759 --> 00:07:45,439 in the nineteen ninety six shenando A National Park double slaying that clouded his life 95 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,839 for twenty two years. Daryl Rice died on a dark highway halfway between Saint 96 00:07:49,879 --> 00:07:56,680 Louis and Kansas City. The Missouri State Highway Patrol reported that the fifty six 97 00:07:56,759 --> 00:08:01,079 year old was riding a bicycle when he was struck and killed a car on 98 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,439 Friday evening that would be July the fifth. It's just difficult to wrap your 99 00:08:05,439 --> 00:08:11,560 brain around it. Rice's longtime defense attorney, Gerald Zerkin told The Daily Progress 100 00:08:11,079 --> 00:08:18,480 it is obviously difficult to accept the extraordinary coincidence that he is killed within days 101 00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:24,160 of being exonerated, but that would appear to be the case. I like 102 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:30,560 his use of the word extraordinary coincidence. When the story first dropped the other 103 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:35,480 night, my first thought was, this guy has just been cleared and suddenly 104 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:39,559 hit by a car. I don't know. I'm not one to buy into 105 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:46,440 conspiracy theories, because I don't think that's a path that lends itself to anything 106 00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:50,519 good. However, the fact that this guy was just cleared but then somehow 107 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:56,320 ends up dead, it made little tiny alarm bells in my head start ringing. 108 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:01,000 I've builded it, do the same thing for you. And there's so 109 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,440 much about this case. And I'm referring now to Darrell David Rice's death in 110 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:13,879 a cycling accident that just seems off. Rice is killed almost eleven hundred miles 111 00:09:13,879 --> 00:09:18,919 away from his last known address, which is a small town outside Durango, 112 00:09:20,159 --> 00:09:28,120 Colorado, And in our communication with journalists and other people that have worked with 113 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,759 Rice, no one's clear on what the heck he was doing in Missouri, 114 00:09:31,879 --> 00:09:37,600 almost eleven hundred miles away from his home. He was an avid cyclist his 115 00:09:37,759 --> 00:09:45,039 entire life. He had actually ridden across the country from Colorado to Maryland, 116 00:09:45,039 --> 00:09:48,240 where he had family and he had lived there at one point. He had 117 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,960 done that at least once before, but no one was aware of him leaving 118 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,639 Colorado and riding across these adjoining states, which would have taken him through Missouri. 119 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,080 The whole thing just seems so bizarre, and let's get into the details 120 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:11,039 of the article. I think there's so much about this that just doesn't feel 121 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:16,679 right. And I'm not a big conspiracy theorist either. There's something truly tragic 122 00:10:16,759 --> 00:10:20,879 about this, And I'm not the biggest fan of Darryl Rice personally, I've 123 00:10:20,919 --> 00:10:26,440 never met the man. But while I understand that he was absolutely not guilty 124 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:33,039 and was never guilty of any involvement in the Julie Williams Slolly Winon's murders, 125 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,480 which are truly horrible, I do think he was guilty of other crimes, 126 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,960 and I think he had serious mental health issues and a lot of personal internal 127 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:50,480 challenges that resulted in his sometimes bizarre behavior. Something about this whole thing just 128 00:10:50,639 --> 00:10:56,320 is not sitting right with me. It almost strains credibility and a number of 129 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:01,399 our listeners. When we put up some of these early articles from Courtney Stewart 130 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:09,080 and other journalists expressed real skepticism. I'll let you continue. In early two 131 00:11:09,159 --> 00:11:13,200 thousand and two, Rice was indicted by a Charlottesville based federal grand jury, 132 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,759 six years after twenty four year old Julianne Julie Williams and twenty six year old 133 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:22,039 Laura lay Winans were found dead at a campsite near Skyland Lodge in Shenandoa National 134 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:28,480 Park shortly after Memorial Day in nineteen ninety six. Passionate about the wilderness and 135 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:31,320 each other, the couple was found naked, bound and gagged, their throats 136 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,559 cut. It was then US Attorney General John Ashcroft, who named Rice as 137 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,399 the suspect, and, under the belief that the two women had been targeted 138 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,840 because of their sexual orientation, announced that the murders had been elevated to a 139 00:11:45,879 --> 00:11:50,879 federal hate crime, meaning Rice was eligible for the death penalty. When another 140 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:56,360 man's DNA was found on the devices used to bind the two women, the 141 00:11:56,399 --> 00:12:01,919 government dropped the charges against Rice, but reserved the right to reinstate them. 142 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,240 Stop you there for a second. One of the things that's really been bothering 143 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:13,159 me about the horrific lack of information from the FBI at these recent press conferences. 144 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:16,919 As we discussed on mind over a Murder last week, is open questions 145 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:24,200 like this. I remember when the other man's DNA was discovered on the bindings. 146 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,120 I think it was on the tape. There are a lot of questions 147 00:12:28,159 --> 00:12:33,879 about whose DNA that might be. I think those questions could be resolved now 148 00:12:33,399 --> 00:12:41,279 using advanced forensics. I'd like to see the FBI pursue these avenues whose DNA 149 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:48,320 was on the bindings. They've never said. Given how much of a big 150 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,000 deal they made about Rice and how they were going to see that case all 151 00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:56,559 the way through up to and including his execution, you'd think that they'd go 152 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,159 back and revisit this and figure out, Okay, that DNA that we discovered 153 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:07,200 all those years ago, whose DNA is it? Now that we do have 154 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:11,480 a suspect, Walter Leo Jackson, let's go ahead and run that is that 155 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:16,360 Walter Leo Jackson's DNA? Is that someone else's. We are still trying to 156 00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:20,720 figure out a lot of information about Walter Leo Jackson, and that is a 157 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:24,159 process that I think is going to continue, or rather, let me rephrase, 158 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:28,200 that is a process that I hope is going to continue. I hope 159 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:33,120 that the FBI does not just say we've got it and that's it. I 160 00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:35,399 hope that they're going to continue Bill. For the record, Bill is making 161 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,639 a skeptical face there. I think that given amount of time, attention, 162 00:13:39,759 --> 00:13:43,919 and resources that the Bureau has recently put back into this case, I think 163 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:50,480 that they owe it to everybody who may possibly have been impacted by Walter Leo 164 00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:54,639 Jackson. They owe it to everybody to go through and really see this through 165 00:13:54,759 --> 00:14:00,919 to fruition, check every single DNA source that was available, We'll check all 166 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,120 of his whereabouts. We know that this guy is a truly heinous and awful 167 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:11,080 kidnapper and serial rapist. They really owe it to anybody who may have been 168 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,360 impacted by this guy to see this investigation all the way through. And I 169 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,000 sincerely hope that they're going to continue to do that by testing every piece of 170 00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:22,200 evidence that's available against Jackson. But I think only time is going to tell 171 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,360 on that. The other issue, of course, is that there could be 172 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,799 DNA from multiple sources, and there may be more than one offender, So 173 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:39,399 actually doing a complete job of analysis and review of all of the evidence might 174 00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:45,480 lead them to conclude that Jackson had an accomplice. That's a question that should 175 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,039 be answered as well. I see lots of reason to move forward, and 176 00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:54,799 I see right now little to know initiative being shown by the Federal Bureau of 177 00:14:54,879 --> 00:15:01,360 Investigation in terms of actually pursuing all the the avenues in this case, at 178 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:07,320 least based on their remarkably short and light on information press conference of a few 179 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:13,440 weeks ago. The cloud over race only lifted on June twentieth, when the 180 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:18,000 FBI announced that a Cleveland based serial rapist who died six years ago, Walter 181 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:22,120 Leo Jackson, Senior, was the actual killer. The FBI said that multiple 182 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:28,000 DNA tests showed that Jackson raped and murdered both women. Zirkin said that a 183 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:33,159 factor compounding the tragedy of Rice's death is that he may never have learned that 184 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:39,879 forensic testing had cleared his name. He was very much off the grid as 185 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:46,279 the result of the government's unending persecution and the internet's perpetuation of the false cases 186 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,519 against him, said Zirkin. One of the things we've learned about Rice recently 187 00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:54,360 is he was so off the grid that he didn't have a cell phone, 188 00:15:54,559 --> 00:15:58,639 and he didn't have a computer. The folks on the Innocence Project, deir 189 00:15:58,879 --> 00:16:03,799 N and Jerry Zirkin, his longtime attorneys, were actually trying to reach him 190 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,320 with this information. And we're not having a lot of luck because, if 191 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,200 you think about it, if you don't have a phone and you didn't have 192 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,600 a computer in the modern age twenty twenty four, you've made yourself difficult to 193 00:16:15,679 --> 00:16:22,080 find. So they weren't even certain that they knew how to connect with him. 194 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,720 And if it turns out that he died in this bicycle accident without ever 195 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:32,080 learning that he had in fact been cleared exonerated, use whatever verb you think 196 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,559 is appropriate, although the FBI definitely isn't using either of those two. I 197 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:41,720 think that's an awful tragedy that compounds the awfulness of it, and I feel 198 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:47,600 truly terrible for Gerald David Rice. Rice came to the attention of law enforcement 199 00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:52,559 in nineteen ninety seven when he attacked a female bicyclist along Skyline Drive, not 200 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,759 far from the scene of Williams and Winen's murder. He later pleaded guilty to 201 00:16:56,799 --> 00:17:00,799 attempted kidnapping, and the woman whom he threatened and implored to get in his 202 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,960 pickup truck testified at his sentencing that she was certain he was going to kill 203 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:11,240 her. Charlottesville City Councilor Lloyd Snook wasn't so sure. He was Rice's defense 204 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:17,519 attorney in that case. I can't say I ever really understood him, Snuk 205 00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:22,720 told the Daily Progress. Certainly what he was convicted of was very bizarre behavior. 206 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,839 Such behavior got Rice and eleven year federal sentence that stretched out to additional 207 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:33,720 time due to post release infractions, including failing to report to work, moving 208 00:17:33,839 --> 00:17:41,160 outside prescribed geographic boundaries, and attempting suicide. However, the government's murder case 209 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:48,519 was based solely on snitches and circumstances such as being in the park that fateful 210 00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:53,440 weekend. They had only tissue paper thin evidence against him, said Snook. 211 00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,359 This is the origin of my disliked of Rice in and that I do believe 212 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,839 he was guilty of attacking this other woman, and I'm glad that she survived. 213 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:10,799 I'm not certain that case would have escalated to murder. He clearly was 214 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:17,160 disturbed, and he had a number of mental health issues over the years. 215 00:18:17,519 --> 00:18:22,759 I'd gotten some pushback when we were talking with another colleague recently. I thought 216 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:29,200 I had read somewhere that Rice had attempted suicide at some point. Hawes Spencer 217 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,839 here is mentioning that, and I am fairly certain I've read that before. 218 00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:40,119 When we get into the details of the bicycle accident, the idea that this 219 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,759 could have been a suicide attempt on Rice's part cross my mind. You'll see 220 00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:48,480 more as the story unfolds. While the shenando A murder case against him was 221 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:55,279 dropped in two thousand and four, state prosecutors suggested with a subsequent indictment that 222 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,240 Rice may have been behind the mysterious disappearance of women along a stretch of US 223 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:06,640 twenty nine between Manassas and Charlottesville. The so called Route twenty nine Stalker was 224 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:11,400 blamed for the attempted abduction of at least twenty women in the mid nineties, 225 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,880 hailing them onto the side of the highway and telling them their cars were throwing 226 00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:21,279 sparks. The figure also was blamed for the disappearance of at least nine women 227 00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:26,960 into the twenty tens. Of those later cases, only three were ever closed, 228 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,920 resulting in the conviction of two different men on murder charges. Those, 229 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,960 of course, are the cases of Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham, who were 230 00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:41,359 killed by serial killer Jesse Matthew, and that of Alexis Murphy, who was 231 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,119 killed by serial killer Randy Taylor, who may also be responsible for the murder 232 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,599 of Samantha Clark. In nineteen ninety six, the same year as the Shenandoah 233 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:55,960 murders, Harrisonburg native Alicia Showalter Reynolds was found dead in Culpepper County after she 234 00:19:56,079 --> 00:19:59,880 was last seen standing along US twenty nine with a man peering at her car 235 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,680 engine. Rice, his lawyers said, took a plee in one such stocking 236 00:20:04,759 --> 00:20:10,440 case only because he won a deal with no additional jail time and because the 237 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,200 government seemed willing to reach across jurisdictions to convict Rice of something. Now, 238 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:21,279 this is the part that gets very frustrating, because once Rice was in the 239 00:20:21,319 --> 00:20:26,640 crosshairs of the FBI and the National Park Service, it was like they couldn't 240 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:34,720 let go. And even though the evidence in the Shenandoah case clearly indicated that 241 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,119 it was not Rice who was responsible for those murders, and we know now 242 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:45,599 that it was Walter Leo Jackson, it felt like the FBI just turned into 243 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:51,400 Inspector Javert and just couldn't let Rice go. As a suspect, and it 244 00:20:51,599 --> 00:20:56,680 was one charge after another, all of which seemed designed to extend his jail 245 00:20:56,759 --> 00:21:02,400 stays and put more pressure on him even though they had the wrong guy. 246 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,799 We spent a little bit of time on this subject when we talked to Laura 247 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,519 Richards of Crime Analysts the other day. A Google search will take you to 248 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,000 some really interesting pieces of information with regard to Daryl David Rice, and one 249 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:22,000 of the things that I found was a notice of intent to seek the death 250 00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:30,440 penalty against Rice. It lists a ton of evidence, a lot of which 251 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:37,279 our colleague Kate Miles has said is either overblown or completely fabricated. And it 252 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,440 lists all of these things, including the Route twenty nine stockings that they believed 253 00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:48,880 Rice was capable of with tissue paper thin evidence. It is very frustrating to 254 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:55,480 see really how hard the government was gunning for this guy. And we'll put 255 00:21:55,519 --> 00:22:00,680 links to that particular document in our show notes as well. Quote from the 256 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,160 beginning, the government manipulated the evidence against Rice and in some cases fabricated it, 257 00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:11,039 said Zurkin during a June twenty four press conference after Rice's name was cleared 258 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:15,640 in the Shenandoah case. The preliminary accident report filed by the Missouri State Highway 259 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:22,640 Patrol indicates that Rice was riding a bicycle around nine fifty two pm Friday in 260 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:27,200 rural Cheriton County near the Missouri River. Although he was in Missouri, Rice's 261 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:32,960 address was listed as Montrose, Colorado at the time of his death. I 262 00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:37,400 didn't know he was in Missouri, Sirkin said, nor did the local sheriff, 263 00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:41,000 who saw Rice cycling near the town of Salisbury, a little more than 264 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,799 eleven miles east of the accident site earlier Friday. He was riding on the 265 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:48,119 shoulder at that point in daylight, so I didn't think much about it. 266 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,119 Cheriton County Sheriff Eric Phillips told the Daily Progress. But at night, shortly 267 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:59,680 before the crash to Shareff's deputies noticed Rice peddling without lights or reflectors near this 268 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,400 cenate of the two lane US twenty four, the county's main thoroughfare. They 269 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,559 were going to turn around to check on him when a car came over the 270 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,240 hill and hit him, said Phillips. The sheriff said that one deputy witnessed 271 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:18,039 the impact and that both rendered CPR until medics arrived. Rice. He said 272 00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:22,640 with airlifted to a hospital where he died. So much about this that just 273 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:30,720 isn't working for me. He's almost eleven hundred miles away from his last known 274 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:36,200 address. None of the people that he is close with, his attorneys, 275 00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:41,799 his sister, and other people who had assisted him in the past. Remember 276 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:45,519 I mentioned he had once ridden across the country from Colorado to Maryland on a 277 00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:52,640 bicycle. They provided financial assistance because Rice wasn't able to work, because he 278 00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:59,000 was harassed everywhere he went. Because people would find out that he was a 279 00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:03,400 suspect in in a brutal homicide that of Julie Williams and Lawley Winans. People 280 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,440 would get very upset about the fact that they thought there was a killer living 281 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,640 in their midst. As it turns out, he wasn't a killer. He 282 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:19,279 struggled mightily in the twenty two years after the FBI went after him so aggressively. 283 00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:26,640 The strange thing is Rice riding a bicycle from Colorado, perhaps to Maryland 284 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,559 or someplace east is not out of the question. He wasn't able to do 285 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:37,039 those things without some form of financial assistance from his attorneys and his family. 286 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,880 None of them were in contact with him regarding a planned bicycle trip. So 287 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,000 there's something about this that, just as I said, it just doesn't sit 288 00:24:48,039 --> 00:24:52,000 well with me. That this guy is almost eleven hundred miles away from his 289 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:59,799 last known address, and this is about eighty eight hours on a bicycle according 290 00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:04,880 to Google Maps, which would be days and days of writing. It almost 291 00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:11,200 feels like he might have headed out from his home near Durango, Colorado. 292 00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:18,920 Perhaps he did have some way of knowing that there had been significant news in 293 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,519 the case that he had been charged in so many years ago. I just 294 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,480 don't know, and now we're not going to be able to ask him. 295 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,119 You're listening to mindover Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our 296 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:44,240 sponsors. We're back here at mindover Murder. Before we get back to the 297 00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:48,440 podcast, just wanted to remind you that we have a go fundme effort going 298 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,240 on right now. This campaign is designed to help us raise funds to help 299 00:25:52,279 --> 00:26:00,359 promote mindover Murder and specifically to push the Colonial Parkway murders investigation for we'd love 300 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,200 it if you could support us in any way that you can. Any donation 301 00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:10,039 from five dollars to whatever you can afford is very much appreciated and will be 302 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,279 incredibly helpful. The link is in the show notes and in our social media 303 00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:18,880 pages. As always, thanks for your support. Now back to mind over 304 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,720 Murder. Bill. One thing that I think our listeners are going to be 305 00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:27,240 very interested in is the fact that you also are a cyclist. This isn't 306 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:32,359 a trip that you would take on your own and unsupported, correct, Like, 307 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,160 you would need to have a place to stay, you would need to 308 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:41,319 have resources available to you if you're taking your bike all that way. Would 309 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,079 you need to stop at various points for mechanical issues or anything like. I 310 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,519 am not a long haul cyclist, so I have no idea. But I 311 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:52,799 know that you said you we cycled, So would you make this kind of 312 00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:57,920 trip unsupported with no financial resources or help? No, I don't think so. 313 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,559 And I would love to see the bicycle that he was riding and see 314 00:27:03,559 --> 00:27:07,920 if it was set up properly for what would be referred to as long distance 315 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:14,359 touring. If he left Colorado and rode east, which would take him through 316 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,759 Missouri, he's about midway through Missouri at the place where he's struck by the 317 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:23,079 carts near Salisbury, Missouri. These are very rural highways, By the way, 318 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,359 the sheriff had mentioned in one of the articles I read that they are 319 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:33,319 only seven thousand people in the entire county. It's very spread out. Rice 320 00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:37,039 might have been able to make the track on his bicycle. He's fifty six 321 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,400 years old and in good physical condition. He wouldn't necessarily have to stay in 322 00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:48,799 hotels. I'd like to see the bicycle. Does it have panniers on at 323 00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:52,319 pagnes, which are the bags on the back and front of bicycles to help 324 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,640 carry gear. I mean, at a minimum, he'd have to have food, 325 00:27:56,039 --> 00:28:00,680 some clothing to change into. Perhaps it's a simple toolkit to keep his 326 00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:07,160 bicycle going, a couple of spare tubes. If he's not staying in hotels 327 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,279 or motels as he rides along, and much more likely is camping out, 328 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,880 then he's likely got to have a sleeping bag, perhaps a lightweight tent. 329 00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:22,119 When I heard about the accident and then got onto Google Maps to see where 330 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,559 the heck is this, my first thought was I was hoping his family could 331 00:28:26,559 --> 00:28:30,839 see his body to confirm that it was him and how he died. And 332 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,759 the second thing is I would dearly like to see photographs of the bicycle. 333 00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:41,480 What it looked like after the accident, and does it have any of the 334 00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:47,680 gear that I've described which a long distance cyclist would need. The state report 335 00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:51,680 indicates that the collision destroyed the car, a two thousand and one Nissan Maxima, 336 00:28:51,759 --> 00:28:53,279 driven by a thirty one year old man. A twenty two year old 337 00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:57,160 female passenger was taken to a hospital for the treatment of minor injuries. Now, 338 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:03,400 someone on our Facebook page did express some incredulity with the statement the collision 339 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,079 destroyed the car. They said, how does a bike destroy a car? 340 00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:11,440 Would a car hitting a bike at the speed that they were going, would 341 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,799 that actually total the car? Can you give some information about that? Sure? 342 00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:18,960 First of all, this article says destroyed. Some of the other articles 343 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:25,119 we said they use the word totaled. Now, this is a two thousand 344 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:30,279 and one Nissan Maxima, so it's an older car. It doesn't have a 345 00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:37,960 lot of inherent value. If this person driving the car strikes Rice and does 346 00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:42,000 enough damage to his car, I believe the driver's a mail that car could 347 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:48,759 be totaled by his insurance company. That doesn't mean the car has Spencer uses 348 00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:53,240 the expression destroyed, I think it could mean for all intents and purposes, 349 00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:59,839 the damage to the car exceeds the value of the remaining value of the car. 350 00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:03,759 Now, a couple of things though. Let's just say I don't exactly 351 00:30:03,799 --> 00:30:08,119 know how much Darryl Rice weighed, but let's say he weighs one hundred and 352 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,319 seventy five pounds. I'm completely making that up. He looks tall and thin 353 00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:15,319 in the photographs I've seen of him, and he's on a bicycle, which 354 00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:21,519 puts him in an elevated position. If he is struck by a car, 355 00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:27,359 a man's body is then thrown by the car, it could do a significant 356 00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:33,440 amount of damage to the vehicle. We've had incidents here in Connecticut recently where 357 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,759 people have been struck by cars, and large animals dear moose, etc. 358 00:30:40,119 --> 00:30:45,200 Have been struck by vehicles and they've done a tremendous amount of damage. Now, 359 00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:48,079 a moose is a whole other category because they can be twelve hundred pounds. 360 00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:53,400 Daryl Rice and his bicycle were up over two hundred pounds, and it 361 00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:57,079 might have some of the equipment that we talked about as well. He might 362 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:03,799 have bags and packs and things like that that he's obviously very badly injured. 363 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,000 They medivacked him out of there on a rescue helicopter and were unable to save 364 00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:15,359 his life. I absolutely think that if you struck someone who they claim was 365 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,480 riding down the center line of the highway, which you may have been to 366 00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:23,160 avoid the dark edge of the road where they might have been broken glass or 367 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:29,119 debris or things like that. This accident happened at nearly ten pm, so 368 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,000 it's well after dark. It's possible that Rice might have put himself in this 369 00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:37,920 situation because he was trying to avoid the edge of the road. He might 370 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,400 have been riding after dark because it was cooler. We started off this episode 371 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,519 of Mind over Murder talking about how hot it's been. Now I can go 372 00:31:47,559 --> 00:31:49,960 back and take a look at the weather for Missouri. It was only a 373 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,319 couple of weeks ago. My guess is it was pretty hot, and he 374 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,960 might have been trying to avoid the heat of the sun. That may be 375 00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:02,039 another reason for him lighting at night now, the lack of lights and reflectors. 376 00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:07,440 These are unfortunate choices, it would appear, but I am highly confident 377 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:15,079 that an older vehicle striking a grown man and a bicycle would do significant damage 378 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:21,400 to the cyclist and to the car before he was prosecuted for attacking the cyclist 379 00:32:21,559 --> 00:32:25,559 in Shenandoa National Park. Rice was a computer programmer living in Maryland, but 380 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,079 the murder prosecutions and archives press reports kept Rice unemployed and on the move. 381 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,079 His lawyer said, Daryl has been forced to be off the grid due to 382 00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:37,480 all the horrible media coverage of his case and what the government has done, 383 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,640 said Zirkin, He's just been trying to survive and can't get a job and 384 00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:47,240 was driven into hopelessness. That is the great tragedy of false accusations. Jerry 385 00:32:47,319 --> 00:32:53,000 Zerkin's got a lot of good points here, this crusade to go after Daryl 386 00:32:53,079 --> 00:33:00,119 David Rice without ever proving that he was responsible for the murder of Julie Williams 387 00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:05,119 and Lolly Winans. And they never proved that he was responsible for the murder 388 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,880 of Alicia Showalter Reynolds and the other victims in the Route twenty nine stalker case. 389 00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:15,960 Yet they continued to harass him to the extreme. I believe for decades 390 00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:21,960 is part of the reason why he gets killed out on this lonely highway at 391 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,920 ten o'clock at night, eleven hundred miles from his last known address. There's 392 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,920 a lot of very interesting questions here that I think we're all really looking forward 393 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:36,359 to having answers to. Some of those questions we may never have answers to. 394 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,279 Unfortunately, I think that the tragedy of all of this is that this 395 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,759 man who had been persecuted, there's really no better word for it, in 396 00:33:44,839 --> 00:33:47,920 a case that he demonstrably was not at fault for, has now died, 397 00:33:49,119 --> 00:33:52,079 and it is entirely possible he did not know his name was cleared, and 398 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,279 I think that is just a tragedy of the highest order. I feel really 399 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,960 terrible about this. Like I said, I don't like to go down the 400 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,720 conspiracy well because nothing good ever comes from that. But it does feel a 401 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:07,960 little the timings a little odd, let's just put it that way. I'd 402 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:13,719 have to agree. It occurred to me that del Rice could have been in 403 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,760 a strong position to sue the FBI and the Virginia State Police. His decision 404 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,280 not something he would have ever discussed with us. We didn't have a relationship 405 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,800 with the man. I just knew about him for all these years. With 406 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,480 this just relentless pursuit of Rice for all of these years, certainly the FBI 407 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,480 and the National Park Service couldn't have known in two thousand and two when they 408 00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:45,000 were charging Rice, But by the time their own forensic expert testified that it 409 00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:50,039 was not Rice whose DNA was found on the edges of the bindings, which 410 00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:53,519 I believe were duct tape. Certainly, by the time several more years had 411 00:34:53,559 --> 00:34:58,119 gone by and more work had been done, it was very clear that Rice 412 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,719 was not the right suspect. Yet they kept going after him. And at 413 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,639 the same time, when we have FBI agents like Jane Collins driving around in 414 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,880 their vehicles, and this was widely reported in The Hook and other newspapers, 415 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:15,760 The Washington Post, a number of media sources reported that there seemed to be 416 00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:22,199 resistance by the FBI in the National Park Service to conduct the additional forensic testing 417 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:28,119 that was required, which I believe would have cleared Rice much earlier. Rice 418 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,960 wasn't the right guy. Now we have an announcement in twenty twenty four that 419 00:35:32,039 --> 00:35:37,440 Walter Leo Jackson raped and murdered Julie Williams and Lollywinings. By the way, 420 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:43,960 the sexual assault was news to all of us. There's a tremendous gap then 421 00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:49,480 between two thousand and two and twenty twenty four that's about twenty two years. 422 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,840 I believe the FBI knew that Rice wasn't the right guy a number of years 423 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:59,039 ago. Well, do you want to share the conversation that you had with 424 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,880 one of the four were FBI agents on the Colonial Parkway murders case when he 425 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,679 mentioned to you in a phone call that they felt they had a good suspect 426 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:13,079 for Shenandoah. It seemed to me like the FBI just couldn't let go. 427 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,440 I recall a conversation that I had a number of years ago. This has 428 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,840 to be around twenty ten, because this was during the time frame where he 429 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,760 was handling the case. This is before our current case agent. He had 430 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,360 just attended a briefing at FBI Richmond. He was based in the FBI Norfolk 431 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,199 office, and he told me, oh, we have a suspect in the 432 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,880 Julie Williams Lalley Winen's case. And he was very confident about it. And 433 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:44,639 I said, if you tell me that the name of the suspect is Daryl 434 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,039 David Rice, I'm gonna spit. And he said it's Daryl David Rice. 435 00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:52,840 And I said, good naturedly, I hope that's the sound of me spitting, 436 00:36:53,079 --> 00:36:57,400 and I said to him at the time, you guys haven't been able 437 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,679 to prove that it's been Daryl David Rice for all these years. Why aren't 438 00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:07,599 you more open to the idea that it could have been someone else. You've 439 00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:13,679 been dragging around this evidence since nineteen ninety six, and you still can't prove 440 00:37:14,159 --> 00:37:19,239 that it's Rice. Why aren't you open to other suspects? And of course 441 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,920 a great question here it is all these years later and it turns out it's 442 00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:29,280 not Rice. I really do think that the FBI knew it wasn't Rice a 443 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,239 number of years ago, and when Stanley Meter came in as the new Special 444 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,960 Agent in charge in the Richmond office and ordered a top to bottom review of 445 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,400 this case. And I appreciate the fact that he did this. That led 446 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:46,320 directly to them re examining all the evidence, which should have happened before twenty 447 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:52,199 twenty one. But it is what it is. There's just a pattern here 448 00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:57,920 with the FBI of foot dragging in these cases that I do not understand. 449 00:37:58,039 --> 00:38:02,280 And now we have this situation where they're finally identifying suspects, all of whom 450 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:09,760 were conveniently dead. It's troubling that the FBI dragged its feet literally for decades 451 00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:16,320 while these men were alive. We have situations like in the Colonial Parkway murders. 452 00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:22,559 We have Alan Wade Wilmer Senior dying in twenty seventeen. Had he been 453 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,159 re examined earlier, he could have spent the last part of his life in 454 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,440 jail where he belonged. The same thing with Walter Leo Jackson. As we 455 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,039 were discussing on crime analysts, there's a very disturbing pattern, and we're going 456 00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:42,320 to have to do some more digging on this one. Why was Walter Leo 457 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:50,360 Jackson Senior serving such short sentences for increasingly serious kidnapping and rape? Are there 458 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,760 other cases that he was involved in where he wasn't charged. There's just so 459 00:38:53,840 --> 00:39:00,000 many odd things about this. But now conveniently he's dead and the FBI is 460 00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:02,880 saying, Aha, we solve the case. But they're solving the case after 461 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,199 these people have died. I appreciate the hard work, but I can't help 462 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:13,199 but think if they had refocused their resources years ago, these people could have 463 00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:16,440 been identified and appropriately punished. What I'll do is, once I've read a 464 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,119 book, Let's say I've read Kate miles trailed. I will sit and I 465 00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:23,280 will annotate all throughout the book, as any good English teacher would do. 466 00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:28,039 But then I'll sit and I'll write my findings out on legal pads so that 467 00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:30,639 I can have them right in front of me. And one of the things 468 00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:35,480 that I was noticing the other day is the fact that Darrell David Rice was 469 00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:39,000 convicted for his assault on Yvonne Malbasha, the cyclist in Shenandoah. And he 470 00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:43,000 should have been convicted for that. He absolutely should have. That was not 471 00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:45,800 anything that any one deserves to have done to them. He deserved to be 472 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,960 convicted. He'dn't serve to do crime. He was sentenced to fourteen years for 473 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,679 that attempted kidnapping and sexual assault. Meanwhile, you've got Walter Leo Jackson who's 474 00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:01,400 convicted of truly heinous rape, kidnapping, and assault, and he's doing not 475 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,679 nearly that amount of time. And I just don't understand some of the sentencing 476 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,079 guidelines, and I realize they vary from state to state. I just I'm 477 00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:14,840 looking at some of these things and asking myself, Okay, So Daryl David 478 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:20,159 Rice gets fourteen years in nineteen ninety eight for the assault on von Labasha, 479 00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:22,039 and like I said, he did deserve to be sentenced for that. Absolutely, 480 00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:25,480 I'm not saying that he didn't deserve that. At the same time, 481 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:31,280 you've got very different sentencing for two very different men and very different types of 482 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:37,199 crimes. Even once the case against Darryl David Rice was ultimately dismissed, it 483 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,800 was dismissed without prejudice. They could bring it back at any point and retry 484 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,800 it at any time, and I don't understand why they ultimately decided, you 485 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,440 know what, we want to reserve the right to bring this up again and 486 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,440 again and again. I just I don't understand what the thinking was here, 487 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,280 And I really do feel badly for Daryl David Rice. I am not, 488 00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:00,679 as you said, I'm not a member of the Daryl David Rice fan club. 489 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,119 He was not necessarily the best guy in the whole entire world, but 490 00:41:05,199 --> 00:41:08,480 he did not deserve what he got from the FBI at all, in any 491 00:41:08,519 --> 00:41:12,280 way, shape or form. No one deserves to be persecuted like this, 492 00:41:12,679 --> 00:41:15,199 and that is what it is. It was persecution. No one was served 493 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,559 well in this case, and I do truly feel very badly for Darryl for 494 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,920 what his life ultimately became. And now for how his life ended, and 495 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,000 the fact that, like I said, I know, I keep coming back 496 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,039 to it, but it feels almost like Greek tragedy to me. The fact 497 00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:31,440 that he may not have even known at the end of his life that he 498 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:36,000 had been exonerated in this crime that had plagued him for so many years. 499 00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:42,360 I'd like to think that he may have found out somehow that there was news 500 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,360 and that he had been exonerated. I can't help but think that's why he 501 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:52,000 got on his bicycle and started heading east from Colorado. Perhaps we'll find out 502 00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:57,840 someday that he mentioned it to someone, or that he somehow found out even 503 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,519 though he hadn't yet spoken to his attorneys or his family, that he decided 504 00:42:01,559 --> 00:42:07,400 to head east. And perhaps perhaps I'm romanticizing this a little bit, but 505 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,360 I almost pictured him as heading back towards his old life. We'll see if 506 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,519 we ever find out if there's any truth to this. But I understand your 507 00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:21,800 analogy about the Greek tragedy. This is just so horrible. I think Jerry 508 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,719 Zurkin hits the nail on the head when he says that is the great tragedy 509 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:30,159 of these false accusations. Absolutely, so we did do some additional coverage on 510 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,840 this with crime analysts and with real crime profile, and so we will provide 511 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,840 links to both of those episodes when they drop in our show notes and on 512 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:44,960 our Facebook in social media pages. Obviously, the saga of Daryl David Rice, 513 00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:47,719 Walter Leo Jackson, and the break in the Shenandoah case is not one 514 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,719 hundred percent closed. I'm hoping that we will hear more in the coming days. 515 00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:57,760 If the FBI continues to do their work more about again Bill gets the 516 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,760 airol, you could probably hear it, but hear that you to hear it 517 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:07,840 through the audience. I'm hoping that we will have more information on Walter Leo 518 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:13,400 Jackson and any other potential victims. I sincerely hope that he is being looked 519 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,159 at as a potential Route twenty nine stalker suspect. I truly do, and 520 00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:21,960 I'm hoping that maybe in the coming weeks or months, maybe we will get 521 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,079 a break in those cases as well. I sincerely hope that, for example, 522 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,880 Sadie Showalter and Alicia Showalter Reynold's family can finally know some piece and have 523 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,920 some answers as to what happened to Alicia, But I'm assuming that maybe that's 524 00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:38,480 a couple of weeks or months down the road. We will see that is 525 00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:42,280 going to do it for this episode of mind Over Murder. As always, 526 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,320 if you like what we're doing here, please make sure you leave us a 527 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,239 five star rating or review on whatever podcast platform you currently listen to. Please 528 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,039 do talk us up to your friends, neighbors, and even your enemies. 529 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,159 We just need listeners so that we can keep doing what we're doing. We 530 00:43:57,199 --> 00:44:00,679 do have merchandise available at Tea Public. Please do check out us out there 531 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:05,679 for the best quality t shirts about mind Over Murder true crime podcast. Look 532 00:44:05,679 --> 00:44:08,559 for some more information coming soon about some special events here in the great state 533 00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:12,800 of Virginia. As always, thank you so much for listening to this episode 534 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:24,679 of mind Over Murder. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is 535 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:30,840 a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill 536 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:37,239 Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme 537 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,440 music is by Kevin McLoud. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl 538 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,239 Space Media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 539 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,840 You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway murders on Facebook, and 540 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,400 finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. 541 00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:00,199 Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder MU