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Team House with your hopes, Jack Burphy and David Bark. Hey, everyone,
welcome to episode two hundred and forty five of The Teamhouse. I'm here
with Dave and I'm Jack and our guest on tonight's show actually coming back for
the second time, is Greg Cocher. Greg served in the one hundred and
sixtieth Special Operations Aviation regiment where he was a little bird pilot and he has
become on his way to becoming an expert blade maker. You showed us some
stuff that's really impressive. We're going to talk all about, but we're to
start. I mean, look, we did a whole episode with you talking
about your military career. You want to like just go go over you know
a little bit about your background for just a couple of minutes before we launch
him too. Where you are today? You bet? Yeah? And you
know, thanks guys for having me back. And it's an honor and dog
going. I love talking with you guys and sitting with you. But yeah,
I you know, like most young men, we start out, we
don't quite know where we're going or what path we're going to take. So
I enlisted in the army, and I always wanted to fly helicopters. So
after a couple of years, I put in a flight packet and went to
Fort Rutger, got accepted fluid covers for one tour in South Korea five seventeen
CAB and then I went back to the hundred and First. I enlisted went
to three two seventh Infantry in one hundred first in eighty six and then came
back to Campbell, flew a patchages for a couple of years and then put
in my packet to go to the one sixtieth and got accepted to come assess.
Was successful in that assessment and flew a six's and B company first bat
for fifteen years. And at my final board for the assessment, the command
of Colonel had asked me says, well, last question was, well,
Greg, what do you want to fly? And I said, sir,
I will fly kites out of a hot air blending if you want me to.
And that that pretty what set you know, the rest for that career
in the one sixtieth Greatest Greatest Aviators, Greatest Pilot's Crew, Chiefs, armament
dogs we call them dogs or arm up personnel, but they keep the guns
of humming the guys keep our helicopters going. And but yeah, it was
you know, getting that MD five thirty is the greatest helicopter ever made and
saved my life one day that you know, you guys know, but yeah,
and then nine to eleven hit and we all got really busy for the
next eight years. For me, I did eleven combat tours and got shot
down in four and yeah, I just I loved it. I loved every
minute of it. Now we we had you one like over two years ago.
It was episode seventy four. Wow, which is like reaching back,
we talked about your book. Is it Death Weights in the Dark? Yeah,
Death Weights in the Dark sixt guns don't miss. I highly recommend you
guys read it. It's a fantastic account of you know, Gregg's life in
the one sixtieth. It is on Kindle right now and audible. But there
are any hard copies out, No, correct, they sold out, but
I'm gonna have some more printed first to next year, so probably hard back
in and and I'm gonna say right now because I use the I use Kindle
in the minute all the time. Greg's book is free on Kindle, I
think, and and he still gets paid if you read it. So check
it out. Read it. Great book, great episode, episode seventy four.
But let's you know, we we don't want to redo all of sundy
four because we want to talk about your knife's stuff. But for the people
who haven't heard about uh, you know, who haven't watched the episode yet,
even though they will, can you give us a little bit like what
was it like? For you when you first got to the one sixtieth,
What was the training pipeline for you there? Well, when you go through
an assessment, so it's it's a week long and it's it tests you mentally,
it tests you physically, and it tests you your flight aptitude. So
once you you go through the assessment and you're either a go or no go.
So that and back in the days, you know, the attrition rate
was pretty high. I was, I was on. I had four guys
in my class. I was the only one that graduated or finished. And
but it's always every day's check ride and and still today, you know,
I would I would just say why am I here? And every day I
would think, okay, I would get fired today because I would do something
stupid. And so yeah, it's a hard, hard job. It's a
tough job. And we support rangers in Delta and that's this country's you know,
premiere force to go to war bar none. But and you come up,
you come up through the one sixtieth, you're a basic mission qualified aviator.
For me, I was a gun pilot. But it takes us anywhere
from eighteen to twenty four months to teach a guy how to shoot, so
and we're held to very very high standards as you all know, on our
shooting and how close that we shoot to friendlies. So all of our training
is live fire. There are people running on the ground, and that's that's
how we do business. And that's that's why we're so successful in combat operations
in this twenty plus year of war. You know, we've we've shot I
mean I've shot less than fifteen meters in front of friendlies in combat. So
but they the ground force trust the AHS and we trust them. So yeah,
that's that's uh. And as far as me personally, I was I
just want to protect my brothers on the ground. Yeah, that we were.
You know, they've called us Angels a death, the killer eggs,
you know, all all the different different names over the years, but when
we got on station, it was, yeah, it was to help those
guys. Can you tell us a little bit about the Killer a the Little
Bird? Sure, it's it's history in the military, because really it's probably
the only place that it's fun, right is the wins military Well in the
one sixtieth right, yes, yeah, correct, So yeah, in the
early years and the well, the helicopter was developed by mister Hughes in nineteen
fifty six and it came out and the Army designates all our helicopters with the
American Indian names, so this was the Cayuse and then the designation was eight
six, so observation Helico, and then the six. But it's a huge
five hundred was the original nomenclature of it's a civilian helicopter. And over the
years it flew in Vietnam for many, many years. I've met several of
the guys that flew the loach as another name. The grunts gave it,
and I mean it just it saved their lives. It saved my lives.
But mister Hughes developed that aircraft with safety of mind and that if during a
crash sequence and if you look at the if you look at the aircraft without
the tail boom, it looks like an egg. And that was his whole
concept for the engineering of it, is for that cockpit to stay in contact
if it did roll, you know end o rent or side by side,
that the pilots in the cockpit would stay safe. So it you know,
over years, it transitioned into gunships and then the one sixty took it in
nineteen eighty one after the failed attempt of the hostage rescue in nineteen eighty and
Iran and Colonel Beckwith then the commander of Delta, wanted army aviators to fly
army helicopters to support them. So and that when that came about eighty one,
that they chose the the OH six. They armed it with many guns,
and then they had the Blackhawks, and that's what was going to go
on the next one. So again through technology, now it's the or AH
six M model. I flew the J models and the J heavies, and
then there's also the MH six Little Bird, So that's a company. B
company is the gun company in the one sixtieth and then the MH six Little
Birds had the planks on them where and I still say customers where the ground
force will sit on the pods and they can put you know, five or
six guys on there and a dog, and they they put those helicopters in
places I would never even dream of landing. But they are by far the
best sticks best pilots on the planet. And yeah, it was, yeah,
they scared me watching them because we'd be overhead, you know, protecting
the forest and I'm like, they're not gonna land there, and they would
land there, so yeah, they land on ross or streets or what what?
What was the decision or why do you think the decision was to arm
this very small observational platform maneuverability. That thing that helicopter is and I always
it's the Ferrari, the Lamborghini of helicopters. It can get around, it
can turn, it's fully aerobatic, and you know, you hang a couple
of dealing in one thirty four guns and rocket pods on it, and now
they can we can and in seconds we can get right back on target.
And we always fly in pairs, so a lead and a trail, and
yeah, it's and the ground guys call it the fur ball. They're like,
man, you watch the ages of the fur ball because we're we're shooting
and turning and yanking and banking, and but we got to get we got
to get that helicopter around and re engage at target if that's what that fire
supporter wants us to do. And if there's a big battle like jadetha Dam,
you know, it was just there's bad guys, here's the friendlies,
you know, we're gonna shoot bad guys until we run out of m O
or then we'll go to M fours and start dropping hand grenaids on whatever case.
So I was always impressed with the advanced aiming technology birds. Yes,
technologically advanced, yes, and yeah that's funny. I was just talking to
some fellas about that the other day. But yeah, I watched in my
tenure there, tenure there at B company that you know, they're always bringing
technology to us. Hey, can we you know, patchy's got a HUD,
the kober's got a hud. A patch he's got the HDU. Or
the guy can look and point a gun, or we use a grease pencil,
an Army issue black grease pencil mark on the windscreen and too. Fred
Horseley once said we had the engineers there, you know, they were like,
we want you to test this, and we think this is better and
faster. And Fred summed it up. He said, the human brain is
the fastest computer on this planet and an a six gun pilot needs nothing but
a grease pencil and he held a greach pencil up. But yeah, that's
that's what we used to shoot. And I can put a rocket in a
door at four hundred meters because that's the standard that we're held to. And
we shoot a lot, we shoot a lot. But yeah, that's it's
the Red Barren method of Martiternship. Yes, yeah, the old Kent.
Yeah it is. Yeah, so yeah that I mean, I've got a
lot of stories in the book, and we've been real proud of the book.
We've sold over ten thousand copies. And yeah, I read something not
long ago. It says and I self published the book, and they said
that a first time author that self publishes sells three to four hundred copies in
the life of the book probably. Yeah, And we've sold over ten thousand.
And I thought about this and talked with my wife about this, and
we donate one hundred percent of all of those proceeds, and we've donated over
fifty thousand dollars to date to nonprofits that support that's first responders and their families.
Wow, that's cool. Yeah, we love doing it. That's ways
in the dark. So even though it is on kendle them that it is,
it's better people buy it they have it. Yeah. I like to
hold a book. Yeah, yeah, I like to sit there and read
it. And the books who did the audible for who, Darrin I read.
I read the audible. That's great. Yeah, Kyle Lamb shortage of
Lamb. He's like, you gotta read it. You gotta read it.
You you know, but I, you know, reached out to a couple
of buddies like, hey, could you read this book before? Yeah,
man, no, you need to read the book. So yeah, I
read it, and yes, it's been good. So get the audible because
you'll get to sit with you get voice that's Greg's honeyed voice on your drive
and look, if you listen to it in bed, we're not we're not
going to touch No. But I get calls all the time guys be like,
dude, don't drive along, listen to your book. Man. It's
like you're sitting right here, you know, we're sitting at the fire with
us or we're listening to it. So, yeah, it was good.
It's hard. It was hard to do too. It took me like seven
days to wow read that. You're you're only good for about three hours a
day. But people love that. They love to hear you know, your
voice and hear the man himself telling the story. Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, it's good when when the next edition of the hard copies come
out, we'll get a few four us for the studio here. I'm so,
when you retired from the army, I mean, tell us a little
bit about like transitioning out of the military and sort of like what that process
was, Like, wow, that, I mean for all of us,
it's a tough process. And yeah, I went to I went into my
own did my own thing. I did firearms, taxis training, safety,
security, emergency response. I worked for a coy lamb for a bit Viking
Tactics as an instructor and yeah, and I just kind of, you know,
went along and made my own way and tried to help other guys,
you know, young young vets that just either did their time and got out
or guys that retired and to help them transition in. But it's there wasn't
anything easy about it. And I'm still not transmissioned out. I mean we
all missed that that you know, our tribe, our our teams or yeah
so, or that camaraderie that we had in the military, especially in our
organizations. Yeah, and then I guess about it's less than two years ago,
a year and a half or so ago, But had all these these
guys I served with, or fellas that I knew, started started knife making,
and several of them for years are like, hey, you got to
try this. Great, you gotta try this. It's it's you know,
it's medicine. It it helps us. And so I, you know,
we all have lives. We get busy, and we go through these different
phases and different walks. So I had a good friend of mine, Jared
Johnson, he only lives about twenty miles away there in Jacksboro, Texas.
Known JJ for years, marine sniper, and he was a relatively new knife
maker. He'd been making nice about a year, and he kept pestering me
and pestering me. He's like, come over to the forge, Come over
to the forge. Let's hammer some steel. So I did. One day.
It was August, and I was like, wow, this isn't too
Smart's August in Texas is one hundred and fifteen. We're going to crank up
a ford just putting out, you know, one hundred and fifty degree temperature,
and we're going to have her steel. All right? Good? So
I did. I went over and he had a meal railroad spike and he
had a cold forge, and I told him myself, I want to learn
how to do this the way they did it a thousand years ago, and
that's what he recommended to you. So it's all part of that learning process.
So I did. I stuck at railroad spike in that cold forge and
start hammering it and I hammered it into something that somewhat looked like a knife,
my first one. But he he's a yeah, he's a great teacher.
And I do, I told him, I said, I do.
Recall, you know, when I was a kid, probably twelve or fourteen,
I found the old law more more blade and got dad's hacks all out
and probably broke a blade or two and cut something out that somewhat looked like
a cutting tool and you know, made a knife. But so from that
day forward, I was absolutely hooked. And it was it was, to
be truthful, it was therapy for me and I really got a lot out
of that. And then it hit me one day, I was like,
Okay, that's why all these guys are doing this. It helps us and
it you know, it's art and it's science and it's mathematics and it it
fires all these neutrons and things in our brain to help help our brain and
to help us as men. And so I spent probably a month working with
Jared and learning different techniques and learning how to forge, and learning how to
make a sheath out of kaiteex or how to do pin placement, how to
grind a knife, and how to sharpen a knife. So these are all
the things that you know go with knife making. And yeah, I came
home. I bought myself a forge, a little video grinder off of you
know, some website somewhere, and an anvil and a four pound of three
pound hammer from Amazon, and started heating and beaten steel. And then I'd
set down and i'd I would draw designs, you know of what I you
know what, I always used what I thought would be a useful tool for
anyone everyone a hunter, a police officer, you know, a soldier,
a marine, those type of things. So I approached it as you know
what, what will be a useful tool for the person that wants this blade?
And I learned how to sharpen. I unknowingly to my wife, I
would go and get old kitchen eyes and I sit there on the grinder and
hope that would do work through that if bucket honey have you seen my kid?
No, I hadn't seen any of those things, you know. And
uh, and then I, you know, I started, I reached out.
In This industry is phenomenal because all these people want to help you.
They want to tell you how to do this, unlike other industries that some
of us are familiar with. But yeah, they just embrace you. And
so I want to learn how to make Damascus. Well who's you know,
who's the JETI have Damascus in this country? Steve Schwartzer. So I met
him, N talked to him. He says, yes, come to Florida.
I spend a week out there. John Horrigan he lives about three hours
away, unfortunately for John, and it's like, hey, man, I
need some help, okay, come on. Or he'd calls like, hey,
how do those prison ships coming. I was like, dude, come
on, they give you a break it and uh, John and hammer on
me pretty hard. You know, a dagger. I wanted to learn how
to make a dagger. The dagger is the hardest, most difficult grind of
any knife, because you have to grind four sides of that piece of steel.
All your lines are supposed to meet up and match up, and so
Bill Harsey. Bill Harsey was the best in the country. So I called
Bill Harsey, Hey, mister Harsey, I like to come out and learn
how to grind a dagger? Well you come on, you know? So
yeah eighty and I went out there spend a day with him, and yeah,
just just so many Chris Williams, you know, another Wilmont grinders.
I went out and did a class with Chris for a week and learned more
Damascus techniques and made a chef knife out there. So yeah, it's very
refreshing. That's amazing that all of these like super talented guys, we've been
doing it forever. It's like, yeah, come out to my shop and
I'll sell you. Yeah. It just blew me away because I was very
standoffish. I get you know, what do you want or what do I
have to do for you or nothing? No, it's they want to teach
the skill. Yeah, they want to pass that knowledge on. Yeah,
it's not like Dangel, Defenser clock er Huk are going to invite you out
to like learn how to write, right, Yeah, And I would tell
them, I'm like, hey, I'm twenty years behind. I'm sixty three
years old, I'm twenty years behind everybody. I got to hurry up,
Yeah, because I want to learn this and I want to I want to
be the best and I want to make the best tool. You know.
I want to use good steals and learn what's right one. And trust me,
I've got buckets and buckets and boxes of stuff that didn't work. It
didn't Okay, yeah, that doesn't work. So yeah, don't harden steal
and try to drill it, you know, I got Yeah, what do
you think it is about out blades, whether it's swords or tomahawks or knives
that a certain like certain guys like a lot of guys just geek out about
that. He just I probably owned sixteen knives and I don't use him for
anything other than to open packages. Sure, right, Yeah, I think
it's in our DNA. It goes back to when we drug knuckles. Yeah,
you know in the first Yeah, you know, pro magnon chips a
blade like something out of stone to go get food or you know, whatever
the case may be. But yeah, and you know, guys and gals
both they like a style, you know, how does it fit their hand?
What am I going to use this for? You know? Am I
haunter? Whatever the case, Am I going to open boxes all day long
with? Yeah? So yeah, and there's I mean, go like,
there's just so many choices out there day. There's so many great knife makers
and so yeah, it just it just depends on that person, Yeah,
and what they're looking for, and you know, what's pleasing to the eye,
and you know, does it stay sharp? Does you know for police
officer? Military? Hey, can I pop a lock for this thing?
Right? You know, pop a windshield, open an M R E box?
Right? But I don't think there's beeny knife kills probably since you know,
the forties, in World War Two, I know of a couple of
knife fights and in g Watt, but yeah, I don't I don't foresee
anybody taking a digger out and taking down sentries here. Yeah. Yeah,
it's I think you've come to the conclusion pretty quickly that because you know,
I think we've all, especially initially and then Gatt, we all carried really
nice, you know, fancy knives for that. I carried four five for
that for that trench, for that trench warfare. Yeah, but but then
after you realize, well, my primary has to go down, my secondary
has to go down, And then I'm probably in it, and so can
I, you know, grabs, you know, is it accessible? Like
it really like just the practicality of it after you know, a few ops
like Paris, I would say, though, I mean, although, yeah,
the possibility of like killing a crowd in a fox hole is pretty low
down days, there is a very like good and a good reason and a
lot of utility to carry a fixed blade night operationally. Yeah, just for
utility purposes and the types of things you need to cut, yes, yeah,
and they and they transition from you know, a twelve inch fighter now
to what they call an nedc and every day carry right, And it's probably
one of my best sellers. But you know, it's a six inch knif
six inch blade or a six inch knife for a three and a half inch
blade, and handle enough. You can carry it horizontal, you can carry
it concealed. And I see a lot of guys carrying those today's and they
use them like a pocket knife. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's
what they're comfortable with or we're comfortable with that. Yeah, it's that fixed
blade And if I do need to use it for offense or defense, then
yes, I've got a fighting knife. That I can have, and even
down to the little neck knives I've made. I made a couple out of
some scraps one time, and they just people just scooped them up. Yeah,
and guys bought them for their wives. They can wear them and they're
running or at the gym or a grocery shop and like a necklace, and
it's just a very small, very sharp blade that you know, they can
use for whatever. And the and I studied that thing and then talking to
John Horrigan. But they were they came about back in the eighteen hundreds with
the mountain men, and they were called a vest knife, and they made
these little blades that they wore around their neck and they use them to pop
the cap off their muskets. Was faster than to get their big booie out
or but that's that's where that the neck knife came from. I thought that
was pretty cool, you know. But yeah, so there's there's just so
much, so many different types of blades and technologies and steels and you know,
down to the handles or scales of the knife, you know. So
yeah, just it depends on what fits and you know, what you're looking
for, what your job is or Hey, I just I like to collect
them folders. Yeah, yeah, just to go a little bit deeper into
like the process, because you've gone through this yourself, some of the techniques
with you know, we talked about Damascus steel. I'd like to go a
little more into that. And I mean starting at the beginning, like you
mentioned you wanted to learn how to make knives using a cold forge. I
don't even know what that is. Could you explain what a cold forge is?
Yeah, it's so it's a pan, a steel pan, probably probably
three foot by three foot, and then it'll have a place where you can
induce air. So now we use blowers, you know, back in the
medieval times they big billows, you know, I mean hand ones to small
ones, and you know, and horseshoers use the same thing back when they
would form horseshoes and hot shoe. Yeah, and that's kind of where I
started back years and years ago, learning to shoe horses and to shape that
shoe and to put it in that small forge and hammer forge that thing to
fit that foot. But yeah, so it's it's about that size and you
put coal in it or charcoal, and then you get that lit and then
you induce air, which you need to heat that coal up to the temperatures
that you need, so you know, fifteen sixteen hun degrees to heat that
steel so you can hammer it and shape it into what you need as far
as welding steel, so for Damascus you need twenty two hundred degrees minimum,
so that that gets more into the propane and induced tea things like that.
But they still did it a thousand years ago when they were making Damascus in
Syria and places in the mid East. Yeah. I know you told us
a story before the show, and I think it's a great story. I
like you to repeat it. But we were talking about a known Templar rendition
operation when it came to Damascus steel. Yes, yeah, So when the
Crusades began in the late eleventh century, late ten hundreds, so the Crusaders
were fighting against the Mid Easterns, the Muslims, and they found that they
had better steel in their swords. So I don't know how many years it
was, you know, in the twelfth century, but they so, you
know, the Crusaders and the Templars were like, okay, we need some
better steel for our weapons. So they send a little clandestine unit into the
Mid East, Syria around there and kidnapped two of their master sword makers and
brought them back to France, Europe and learned how to make this Damascus steel,
which was they had you know, different ores and and different different materials,
and that they could learn, you know, where to get those,
how to get those and then make that steel that the people that were fighting
and into their steel. So yeah, it was it was very interesting to
learn about that. Now they said, they said, a special opsute kid
do a kidnap and bring them back. So when you make a knife out
of Damascus steel, what's what's your methodology? How do you do it?
Yeah, so I learned to take so I take ten eighty or ten eighty
four steel, so your your good knife steel is a very high And let
me get this straight through. I'm no expert. I'm still learning this.
I've only been doing it about less than two years now. But I'm hungry
for knowledge and I want to learn this stuff. And again that's why I
went to the best in this country that I could find. So I'll take
a ten eighty a high carbon steel and then fifteen in twenty steel, so
that's a high nickel content. So and then I'll make a sandwich and it'll
be say, I'll use twenty layers, so I'll alternate high carbon steel,
so ten eighty and then fifteen to twenty ten eighty fifty. So I get
twenty layers, okay, and then I wel that up with an arc welder
into about six inches long. Stack will be about three and a half inches
thick and an inch and a half wide is about the standard to start a
Damascus billet. Okay, I'll put that in the forge. I heat it
up to twenty two hundred degrees. Then I pull it out, and then
i'll set that weld. I have a coal iron press. So after I
hammered my first eighty some layers the Mascus knife, after two days of ten
hours a day hammering the steel and folding it, cutting it, folding it,
heating it, cutting it, folding it into eighty I think it was
eighty four layers, maybe eighty layers. So I bought a press. So
with these there's power hammers and then there's presses. So this press, I
have a sixteen ton press. So I can put that steel in this press
and I can smash that steel down. Okay, So the first thing you
have to do is you have to set that weld. So it's not a
very it's not a real aggressive, you know, smash on that steel,
but it's it's just bumping it through that billet to set that weld. Okay,
then I take it out, put it back in the forge, and
then I'll start forging it. All right. So what you do when you
smash that still is it stretches it out and then it makes it a little
bit wider. And there's different techniques that you can use press or a power
hammer. A power hammer just does so much more in my humble opinion,
because you can and I've used both. I've learned to use both, and
one of these days I'll get a power hammer. So but yeah, so
you can. There's more techniques you can use. You can turn it different
ways and then turn it on edge. And but I love my press and
it does everything that I need to do or any of the guys and gals
that come to my my forge to make damascus. So I'll smash that out
and again I'll start with twenty layers. Let's say I want an eighty layer
Damascus blade, and that's that's a that's a very It gives a very nice
pattern. And and so I'll do that twenty layers and then I'll pull it
out, I'll cool it off, I grind it down, clean it up.
Then I cut it in half and I fold it and then I rewold
it again. So I'll do that until I have eighty layers, one hundred
and sixty layers. I have one knife that's sixteen hundred layers. I have
a couple of those daggers are probably three thousand layers. Because we cut it
and folded it, cut it and folded it over days and forge welled it
back together and then you come up with these just beautiful patterns. And there
are guys out there and gals that have you know, they've really I mean,
they can do some of the craziest patterns that you've ever seen. But
it's how you put it together. Oh, there's mosaics. John Horgan's probably
the master on Turkish I think it's called a Turkish twist. But just these
incredible patterns. So forgive my ignorance. When when you see the pattern in
the Damascus steel, is that the layers that you have laid it on top
of each other and then you've grinded it down so that you're seeing yes,
yes, and the so the the steel with the high nickel content, which
is will come out brighter. So what happens is when we finish it,
we get that knife forged out and then we cut out the shape or we
hammer forge it into a shape that we're going to have, and then we
grind it and then once we get to that near that finished blade, then
we're gonna put it in ferric acid, okay, and that's what darkens the
high carbon steel, which really makes it pop against that high nickel steel.
It'll be the brighter color in that steel shiny. I guess you would say
so. And then there's a different technique. Some guys will buffet to to
mirror polish and really make that stuff pop. Yeah, it's it's interesting because
I've always known what it, you know, I've known what I Damascus steel
blade look like. I can see one and say it's Damascus, but I
never knew how it's made or what made it Damascus. I didn't either,
And it's I mean, they're beautiful blades, and the blades you've brought here
and we're going to show you guys some of these so if if you're listening
to this on the podcast, when we start showing these blades, you owe
it to yourself. You owe it to yourself to like come to YouTube and
check out the videos because they're beautiful, and also go to your website.
What's your website again, Blades for Brothers dot com? Blades for Brothers dot
com where you can see like all of all of Gravy's uh stuff. So
yeah, but before we get a little deeper into the knives, do you
want to talk about Blade for Blades for Brothers and where you're going what this
is all evolving into? You bet? So it was about it was last
November and I got to thinking about it and I mean, I've just I
mean, knife made has been such therapy for me, and it's it's a
happy place, you know, where I can go and talking to my wife
about it, and I says, you know, I want to give back.
How can I help other vets, first responders, family members? So
I was like, you know what, I'm just going to start a nonprofit.
So I talked to a couple of friends of mine and we found Blade
for Brothers was out there, so I took it and what's the word I'm
looking for. Yeah, I made that my nonprofit and got a website up.
And our mission is to bring in vets, first responders, family members,
and we teach them how to make a knife, and we offer a
safe place where they can come. We fellowship and we tell stories and we
learn something new, we learn art, or we learn a skill. And
you know when I tell him, hey, just use your imagination. What
tool do you want to make? What? What knife do you want to
make? Or you want to pile at knife? You want skinner, you
want a fighter, whatever the case. Again, I'm no expert. I
don't have a clue what I'm doing, but I'm having fun doing it well.
And I would say your knives say different, you know, thank you.
Yeah, I don't know about that, But so what what for you?
Like? What are your favorite types of blades? Like? What types
of blades are you really drawing to? I love the dagger. It's and
not many people do because it's it's very very difficult to grind a dagger.
But yeah, the the and one of my knives. And I name my
knives to honor guys that I served with or guys that I knew. My
Bob Bob Fighter I named after Bob Horigan and and Bob and I were very
very good friends. He was killed in action in two thousand and five out
in western Iraq. But and his twin brother, John Horrigan is just a
phenomenal I don't know what he is, but his knives, his swords,
his art is just unbelievable. And yeah, and I know a lot to
John. He's helped me quite a bit. I know he probably hates it
every time my number comes up on his phone because I called him and asked
him. And Bill Harsey and Steve Schwarzer and Chris Williams and all these.
Kyle amb Is another one. Kyle had just started making knives too about the
time, just before I did, and I'd call him and bug him.
I like, hey, man, what about this. He's like, Grave,
You're so stupid, man, just just go have fun. I was
like, yeah, Roger that but Kyle a phenomenal knife maker. You know,
go look at his stuff. But yeah, all these all these folks
are just they just open arms. And but yeah, the fighter is I
I really love love that my skin. I just love them all. And
the dagger is very challenging and it takes a lot of focus and a lot
of concentration to get those grinds right. And and again. I've got buckets
and buckets of steel that I practiced on and ground. And then I'll go
to h you have neglected knives and Greg Medford, Yes, Medford knife and
knife and tool. Greg's a four marine. I've known Greg for many,
many years. Phenomenal knife maker, and yeah, go check his stuff out.
It's yeah, he's helped me quite a bit. I've taken my Kneyes
to Phoenix. I says, all right, tear him apart, and he
will. And that's I mean, that's just how we are. We.
Yeah, we It's like our debriefs and our ars after a mission. I
don't care what I did right, what did I do wrong? Yeah?
How can I do this better? Yeah? Make me a better knife maker?
Help me understand what I need to do. Yeah, you know,
it's thank you. I you say that it's a very open community and that
people will just teach you, but I also want I also believe that it's
a testament to you, to who you are as a human being, to
your service and everything else that you can literally just go sit at the feet
of these masters of the industry and they are willing to because I'm sure that
they're willing to. Like if I were to call them say hey, I
want to make a knife, I'll be like get that. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, wrong number. It sounds a little bit like there is something
to like, you know, this is the sense and they're looking for a
protegee that takes it serious. Bet. Yeah, yeah, that's what.
And they've told me that that Jim Poor, Jason Knight, other world renowned
knife makers are like your excitement sites yeah right, yeah, And I know
and I get it, but that that's just that's who we are and that's
where we came from and our former professions as warriors and that, yeah,
I want to do good at this. I want to be the best.
Yeah. And they get that from guys like once they kind of learn who
we are and get to know us, and they're like, oh, yeah,
man, I heard about you. You crash helicopter? No, man,
I got shot down. I didn't crash, you know. They they
still joke that. Now Blazer Brothers has chapters in different parts of the country
right where people like veterans and first responders can go, And that's my strategic
plan. But good. Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. That's
my And again we're in the infancy stages of Blades for Brothers. There is
there's a there's another forge in South Texas that is doing this, and I've
talked to the guys that run it and all over the country. But I
just I need to get out and network better. And but yeah, I
want to have a I want to have chapters all over the country for Blades
for Brothers. So if a VET or a police officer or firefighter from New
Jersey calls says, hey, I want to make a knife, Well,
they can't afford to jump on a plane fly to Graham, Texas and yeah,
you know, and so that way I can, Hey, there's two
knife makers within twenty miles of you. Let me contact them and I'll hook
you guys up and you know, do the vetting process. Yeah and yeah,
and hook those guys up. So that that's my Yeah, that's a
strategic plan for the future and near futures to get and they don't have you
know, these knife makers they're not vets, or some of them are,
but they're just they're like, yeah, send them to us, man,
have them call me, tell them come hang out for a couple of days
and just yeah, we'll make a knife if they can watch or you know,
whatever case. So, yeah, what is it about knife making that
you found like therapeutic? I'd really like to hear sort of what's the mental
state that it puts you in when you're doing focus, the focus, the
intensity and then to take a raw piece of raw material, raw piece of
steel and turning it into a knife, a blade, a tool and yeah,
and then yeah, I would say in the attention to detail. And
that's and people get on me a lot because they're like, you don't worry
about that, man, just you know. And I talked to Chris Stroop
a lot, another phenomenal new knife maker knife coming Stroop Knives. And I'll
call Chris and bug him. You know. He's like, no, just
grind that to one twenty, You're good. I was like, no,
man, I gotta go to four hundred, you know on my grind and
I gotta make it look no, you don't just stop just yeah. So
but yeah, that that's the focus and and oh goodness, just a meaning
of it, right, and it gives me a mission, you know,
and it's and it's a hobby I mean, it's it's not a business for
me. My wife brings out at one o'clock in the morning and says,
honey, it's done, come to bed. I'm like, oh, it's
dark out. Okay. Yeah, yeah, Gravy's being humble. It is
a business and we'll show you that here. Second, the other thing I
want to mention some of your tolders for the show is that you want to
go see a neurologist right that it actually improved, yes, improved my test
scores based on the prior six years. Is when I started to see him,
doctor Brett Osborne in Florida, and I go see him every year.
A foundation sends me that supports vets with tb I and PTS and yeah,
that guy is phenomenal and I highly recommend him if you get a chance to
go and and see him. But last the last year I went, he
said, man, because the first part of my when I'm there cognitive testing
and a lot of testing, you know, memory and things like that.
And he walks in later that afternoon he goes, hey, Greg, your
your test scores are off the chart. Man. He said, whatever you're
doing, keep doing it, don't stop. And yeah, and he looked
at idiot. He goes, what's he doing, you know, and at
the time he says, well, he finished writing a book and he started
making noves. And he goes, oh, making nos okay, art geometry,
you know, and he starts naming all these things that help fire,
all these things in our brains and to give us focus and give us a
mission, because that's what we're looking for. Man, Yeah, that's what
we're looking for. And you know, it's interesting because I remember when you
know, I went to go see a TBI specialist. You know, they're
like, look, you know, we recommend that you try to learn some
music, you know, learn how to play music, or learn a language,
like you have to find something to like start your brain back up.
And it sounds as though this is an overlooked field for people who are suffering
from TBIs and things like that. It's a creative endeavor that maybe if they're
not, you know, don't want to learn the guitar or whatever. Sure,
yeah yeah, and as warriors, I mean, what's better than going
hammer and steel, right right? So yeah, I want to make so
bad. Yeah. Well it's physical too, I mean, it it wakes
you up. There's a physicality to it, Yeah, very much. Yeah,
Yeah, it gets hot. Yeah, you got the forge going,
you know. And here we are, me and my knuckleheaded brother marine out
It's one hundred and fifty degrees probably in August and Texas to work forge and
steel man. Yeah, drink water. Right, he's running out there with
gatorays and body armors like you guys need died right, Okay, Yeah,
we're doing See. You were, as I recall it, you were a
big ipsic shooter too, right, Yeah. Did you find that as a
shooter as well? That the focus that goes into each shot? Absolutely?
Yeah, it's yeah. I shot ESPSA and then tactical three gun and shot
professionally for a while. I shot with the AMU. To this day,
I'm like, why did you guys bring me up? But anyway, but
yeah, it's it's it's focus and you know, you're getting trigger time and
breaking down a stage, you know, and all the things that go with
that. I just recently got sucked into this twenty two world shooting. Twenty
two's oh yeah, oh my gosh, I have not had so much fun
in my life. I'd bean Jim, poor Bill, poor Dan Warren.
These these guys in West Texas pulled me into that that rabbit hole, and
yeah, I got a twenty two rifle and we're shooting out to two hundred
and fifty yards with twenty two. What's the twenty two rabbit hole? Like,
well, how's that appealing as opposed to like long range or what you
were doing before? Cheap man boxing twenty twos is eight dollars. You get
fifty bullets that you can go have a blow. That's awesome. Yeah you're
shooting steel, Yes, yeah, we're shooting steel seventy five yards. The
target's three eight inches by three eight inches. I'm not kidding. Yeah,
in two fifty they're just I don't know what's but they're I'm like, man,
you are evil to do it. The guy owdes this rage, you
know, but oh my gosh, we have so much fun. Yeah,
the twenty two's or they're a hoot. Yeah they are. Yeah, shooting
is it's I think again. I'm and I still love to shoot, and
I still love to train, but it And a guy quoted me one time,
I was doing a class for some SWAT guys and I had some rider
out there, but I said, shooting is the most perishable skill of human
hass. We use all of our senses, we use all of our muscles
and thinking and thinking through this, I mean, just the most the simplest
engagement. You know, you have to think by stop and think and hey
is my stuff ready? And my love just going through all those just like
a USPI ripsy match. You know, every time I walked up to the
line, I did the same thing. Every time. It made sure.
What's the loudest sound in a gunfight? Click? Yeah, yeah, that's
for sure. So yeah, it's it's very much parallels parallel, but it's
it's expensive nowadays, man. Yeah, it's getting really expensive. And we
can with the knife making seems like a little bit different in the sense that
it's a craft or a skill, but there's also an artistic side to it
as well. Yeah, it's a hobby. I mean a lot of a
lot of the guys that have come through in the last just few months that
I've met and wanted to learn and get started, and you know, it's
a hobby for them, man, they're just making beautiful, beautiful blades match
up. Yeah, and a couple other guys are just yeah, it's crazy,
man, and it and it's I'm very driven and I love to teach
and I love to instruct. I don't know how good I am at it,
but it's it's just something that you know, I want to help them
and help them overcome that the dragons and demons or whatever you know, is
chasing them. But yeah, it definitely definitely helps. It helps me,
and I know these other guys that have helped too. One thing that is
really amazing about your knives in particular, I think is for you know,
for the selection that you have, aside from just the ones you make,
but it's the history that you put in them. Yes, yeah, it's
so when I got shot down, I somehow got into my possession the twelve
barrels off my mini guns, okay, and I carried him around for years,
and actually there were some knives made. Greg Medford did this and I
met met with Greg. I think it was about twenty ten, and he
was brand new getting started. I mean, his shot was probably not even
as big as this building now. It's just you know, it's a mega
manufacturing, world class facility. But I told Greg, and i'd approached some
knife makers. I said, hey, what do you think, Oh,
you're stupid or no, I don't have time, No, it can't be
done. And so I sat there the barrels into knives, yes, taking
those minigun barrels and making him into a knife, some type of knife.
And Greg looked at me and he was like, I'll do it. I
said, okay, So he did, and he made some damascus blades out
of it. A folder and I think it's called the TFF. Five was
the number back then. And I think we only got like thirteen or fourteen
knives out of the whole thing. And the God blessed Greg maverer Man.
He spent two years on this project trying to find somebody that could hammer,
forg just steal. Then nobody knew about the you know, we knew they
were forty one thirty steel that have a lot of chromium. They've got chrome
line burrels, so that has to be bored out. And but yeah,
so I had some folders made and he gave me some of them, and
I took those and I gave them to the guys that were with me on
the ground that day I got shot down. Yeah, and so I had
I had some of that steel left and those barrels left and I got into
knife making. I was like, okay, I want to do something cool
with this. So I met Steve Schwarzer. John Horrigan introduced me to him
because I asked, who's the Yoda of Damascus Steel. Steve's Forzer, And
so I met Steve. I told him my story and he goes, you're
coming to my shop in Florida. I said, just sir Roger that.
So I cornated with Steve, took the steel out there. It was last
September, and had the minigum barrels. I had already had chopped them up
in about probably one inch lenks, and then I had already bored drilled out
the chrome liner and those barrels. I want to be ready. I want
to be prepared. I wanted to get to work, and so we started.
So we welded those those piece of barrel up, got a billet,
and then I was there on September eleventh last year, and he and his
wife Laura, they had a chunk of World Trade Center steel, I mean
a big chunk like that about that thick that they gifted to me on nine
to eleven on that day, and they had a plan and I was like
you and I and I love those guys. They're just amazing. And Laura,
his wife, is an incredible knifemaker. She is very gifted. So
we I chopped that steal up and I started to forge well the barrels,
and I spent two days there. There have been some people that say they
can do it, or said they could do it, and I have my
doubts because simply one that the steel is very difficult to forge because of the
chemical compound, has a lot of chromium in that steel for barrels to make
them last and to heat the heat that goes with those gun barrels. So
I spent two days two days for in those little pieces of gun barrel and
we walled them up, stuck them in the forge, got them heated up
to twenty two hundred plus degrees, pulled them out. There's a great big
bubble growing on the side of it. And I was like, oh no,
And Steve looks, say he goes, go pound it. So I
put it in the press pound pound pound pounds, smashed it back in the
forge. I did that for two days, ten hours a day, just
on that little piece of steel. Wow. So we got him to forge
welled and what it was is that what in his theory and what we learned
is that you have to burn that those chemicals out of that steel to and
keep the high carbon in place. Okay, So we burned the chromium out
and then we finally got a billet made and then took the World Trade Center
Steel Sadwich did it in and then spend a day forging that. We got
about one hundred man hours and just making the original billet of minigun barrow and
World Tracing steel. Yes, and I got enough steel out of that to
make I made four blades that in my mind, I said, Okay,
these have very very historical meaning to them. And there's there's no more of
this left on the planet. I mean there isn't. And I made it.
And Steve Schwartzer so then I go, I get him back, I
get get back home. I got my billets made. I had four designs.
I had leon. It's a it's not quite as big as a booie,
but it's bigger than a fighter, so kind of a mid size.
And so I cut that piece out and I want to make a dagger,
So I got that cut out, and then my Bob design a fighter and
it's got a purple heart I made. I made the handles out of purple
heart wood. Then I embedded two of my miniature purple heart metals on each
side of the handle, so it's the Purple Heart Fighter and then a mini
bob. So my eedc all out of that original billet of steel. Now,
when I cut that out, I had pieces of that steel and I
kept them. So I made those four knives and I made those to auction
off and to raise money to help other nonprofits and help blades for Brothers and
you know, help other folks. So so I took those pieces and I
made some more daggers out of those pieces. What we had to do,
and Jim poor Flatland Forest helped me with that, and you got I talked
to you guys about that project. And I think that Dimitri asked me.
He was like, we want ten daggers and I said yeah, and everybody,
yeah, okay, whatever to meet you or go home, go big,
go home. I said, well, I might have enough steel left
for five. I said, let me let me do some calculations because I
just had to have help. I don't my little shop, I don't have
the equipment. The yeah power hammers and all the other things too to get
this mission done. But man, I was like, I have a mission
and I'm gonna do it, and I'm not letting you guys down, letting
Jack to meet your down. Well, let's not keep people waiting here.
Which knife? You brought a whole collection here? What do you want to
show people first? Oh? Probably the the big Yeah, one of the
two original Blazer this, so I had a so I think deeck uh is
heeing Frank because he's gonna use our ten thousand dollars focus feature. So it's
it's this camera here one yet this one, so if you want to kind
of yeah. So this is one of the four originals. And this one
I named Leon after mass Starting Leon Hanson, my good good friend. He
was a fire supporter in Beeftquater and a Delta. It took his life in
twenty fifteen. So the sheath was made by a friend of mine, but
I wanted to incorporate. So this is a piece of leather off of my
boot that I was wearing the day I was shot down, So they incorporated
that. And this is sixteen hundred layers of Damascus steel that we made that
I may with Steve and there's actually there's four different patterns in this knife.
I mean, it's just it's incredible. I made the handles or scales this
night because I was thinking, Okay, how can I make this thing just
just out of this world crazy? So I found some forms and I used
it POxy but in these handles. So there's a there's a and again this
is all recovered from the crash site when I was shot down. Oh four,
So this is a seven sixty two bullet that came from my minigun AMMO.
There's a seven sixty two link that I smashed and put it in there.
This is a button off off one of the seven sixty two rounds.
And when I was cutting these off of this old burn up brass, I
looked at and I was like, huh, Lake City nineteen seventy four.
I was carrying AMMO that was nineteen seventy four. If you know how to
read, you know, read read the AMMO buttons. And then there's there's
a piece of the main roador that I cut out. I have a piece
of the main roader. And then on the other side is a piece of
the teatail on this side of the handle. And then there's a tan piece
that's a piece of my uniform, my flight suit that I was wearing that
incorporated into this handle in it. It probably took me, I think,
eight tries to get to this. Again, I didn't have a clue what
I was doing. I'd get on YouTube and look and read and research.
But yeah, so this is the leon and yeah, that was the purple
heart. She put her finger. Yeah, so in the purple heart knife.
Had I just epoxyed. I'd recessed those miniatures into the handle, into
the wooden handles, and I brought it inside, laid it on the bar
for the epoxy to set up, and God bless my mother in law.
She came in. She goes, oh, that's pretty and she put her
finger right in that wet epoxy and I was like, oh, I left
it. I left. It's still there today, all part of the gravy
history. So you've had because not just the quality of the blade and like
how you know the and it's it's an amazing like knife, like just the
way it feels in the hand and everything, but you've had this a praise
by people in the industry. Yes, and with all the historical significance and
everything they've told you that this knife and praises out around one hunder ground,
right, yeah, I mean it's incredible, Like there are things the things
that you incorporate into some of your knives are like if you want to own
a piece of history, this is it. This is it man. Yeah,
there's no I love that that. It's not just a knife. It
has like it's very much greg it's there. Yeah. Yeah, it's a
piece of me. Yeah. And leather from your boot part of your flight
suit, like the rotor. Uh is incredible. Yeah, main road detail.
Yeah, those pieces wound up in the back of my truck one day,
but they came home. Yeah. And then this is the six gun
dagger, so that I did. And this is from the same steel we
we hammer forged this. And again it was my Oh does it okay?
No, no, no, I'm not yep, But I liked the coffin
handle. A bit of history about the coffin handle. It originally was on
the Booi. So the guy that came up with the coffin handle was a
good friend of Jim Bowie's and that was one of the original handles on the
Bowie knife because they said this blade will put you in the coffin. I
was like, okay, that's good enough for my knife. But yeah,
I went down to John Horrigan's and he, you know, he helped me
a bunch with you know, my final groun. And again the dagger is
is the hardest knife to grind. I mean, these all these lines match
up, and I'm just I was really really proud of this blade. And
yeah, it's a hidden tang on this one. And yeah, because I
kind of significance too, doesn't it. Yeah, so the pins and all
mine eyes, the pins I use look like the end of a mini gun
burrel, so that's it's got six little burrels on it. And then the
red comes from our Red six. We're known b Company First one sixtieth are
known as the six Guns because of the two mini guns that would carry on
the ah. And then the red designates our Red six and then the blood
of those that have gone before us and then have sacrificed. So yeah,
I try to incorporate history and things that I think about. And then you
also had this one I pray is out right, yes, yes, And
what did they tell you that this one it prays out? Yeah, they
said fifty to fifty to sixty grand. And they asked me. You know
when I when I first had I showed these four blades, the different masters,
and they said, well, what do you want for these? And
I said, man if I get three or four grand for all of them,
and they're like, you're stupid. No, no, these are history.
Yeah, this has the World Trade Center steel. Yeah, as many
gum burrows that killed a lot of terrorists, no kna. And that's something
that we may have left out is this steal the Damaska steel. If you
can see it folded in there, it is World Trade Center steel. H
steal from the World Trade Center, you know. And uh and mini guns,
yes, my minigum burrows. Yeah yeah, yeah, from tail number
three, six four and then and these first four serial numbered, all four
of them, but I used my tail number three, six four and then
one through four three six four dash one that's two three, that's four.
So yeah, that's the and this got my name, my logo which is
a Crusader shield and an American black. They're they're amazing, it's beautiful.
So now, d uh. The the blaze that d made you make compelled
you you gotta make these. I was like, oh, gosh, man,
I'll get these ones out of here. So they're they're they're all a
little varied, yes, but they but they have some our trace. They're
they're the Daggers. Yeah, I picked the he picked the hardest one.
Yeah, thanks D. Good jobs. Would the website Jack and I said,
definitely no Daggers because okay, so Buddy's half a word, huh but
uh and I mean they're beautiful. Uh, I don't know. Can you
see d on the camera? Can you see the Damascus the patterns in these
them on you like? Because they they because they have different patterns and they're
just stunning. Yeah. And there are six, six of these, right,
yes, yeah, and I had enough. I mean, materials are
just hard to get nowadays, but I had so this all G ten.
I used G ten and and all six of these. So it's it's a
very very strong composite that's used in a lot of things but knife handles,
uh, firearms, different things out there in the industry today. But this
stuff is harder woodpecker lips, and it's it's very durable. You know,
ascid won't herd it weather, you know those things. But I actually had
this G ten made for one of the knives I did with the original company
in Dallas makes this, but it's red and black, and I thought it
would really I made two, put these on two of the Daggers, and
then the other four Daggers had the black G ten. But yeah, I
just I just I like, really, the black again designates you know,
that's where we operate. We operate at night, and we are night stalkers,
and you know we fight at night. We are the world's premiere night
fighters in our communities. But this particular let's see, yeah, this is
this is a random Damascus here that Jim Poor helped me with. I went
out to his shop because he had the equipment and he had you know,
logistics and support to make this stuff. And you know, I made this
steel, I cut them out, I ground them all right there at my
shop and Grand Texas. These six I numbered WS Whiskey Sherriff for war steel
and one through six so they were laser engraved. And these all have certificates
of authenticity for each knife. That's a random. This was a I did
a canister Damascus on these. It was something different, something I thought about.
So I took pieces from the original billets and I used a four inch
by four inch square tubing. Okay, that's my canister, and it was
about two inches tall. And then I cut these pieces in about an inch
and a half and I stacked them in this canister and then I poured high
carbon powdered steel inside that canister. And it's got a bottom and the top.
I welded it up tight, and then I put it in the forge
and then you forge that canister to welding temperature twenty two hundred plus degrees.
And then I pull it out out and then I start forging it start hammering,
and I hammered it into a billet. I hammered six billets again,
took you know, several several days, and uh, yeah, these just
came out. These are phenomenal. But all this steel in here is World
Trades. The darker steel is lower carbon steel. So that's many gun barrels
and then World Trades and are steel. And that's why the pattern has it
has more of like a horizontal look to it. Yeah, And that's how
I It's how I hammered, it's how when I took it out, we
stretched it and then and I had to get it at least because these are
full tang knives. I mean you can see the pattern all the way through,
and that it had to be two inches wide. So you know,
a lot of care had to be taken into getting that steel right with the
right link, because if it's too short and you're screwed and you just I
couldn't get the blade that I needed to get. That's a beautiful design.
Yeah, the yeah, and again I went and when I started making daggers,
so I went in research and I looked at the LSS daggers, and
I went and looked at the fairbarns, and the only thing for me is
a point of index. So the original daggers had a completely round handle on.
Yeah, well how do you index that night? It's like a nineteen
eleven, right, So I said, I'm gonna go with a coffin handle
or a flat handled dagger, so at night, whatever the case, you
know, I can index at knife as I'm sneaking up on that sentry.
And so that's why I chose that the length is in my again in my
medical research, so it's five and a half inches to the aorda in the
center part of our body in a frontal attack. So I made. I
included outer wear, and so I made the blade seven inches to ensure that
if I do you going and I know man that people are like, you
know, you're thinking too much about it. I was like, no,
man, that's what That's how my brain works, you know. I want
to get that. I want to get that order. Right. It's designed
to be practicality right, yes, yeah, it's a fighting knife. Yeah.
And the other the US like sknife. I don't it didn't have a
cross guard either. It just wasn't it just uh, I'm trying to remember
now. No they did, okay, they of the Pentagon by the uh
yeah, sock put that a long time ago. It was a half tang
knife with the yeah, I mean the great knife, great blades. And
but this is this is my knife and this is my my art, my
style, my but yeah, they people tell you your think things, man,
stop thinking about this stuff. Yeah. And and now you know these
are these are the knives that you've done with World Trade Center steel and and
Mini Gun steel. You also for people who may not be high end collectors
or investors, you also do you know beautiful knives that are things that are
not of such rare material. No, no, no, the major steel
I use eighty c RB two. It's a it's a very good knife steal.
It's it's you know, eighty percent carbon and then it has chromium in
it so that you know, that adds to the hardness of the steel.
That eight the edge retention of that steel for a high carbon steel. Now
I've learned, and you know, just looking at other knife makers and just
I mean, I look and look at it because I learn everything. And
actually the funny story when I when I drew up the fighter, so I
want to call it the Bob Well, it looks a whole lot like the
Horgan Fighter. Yeah, and you know Bob developed that knife and when he
was in the unit, and every op freighter in the unit carries the Horegan
Fighter. So I was like, man, I didn't know about you know,
copyright or if I can you know, can I even do this?
So I call John, I say, hey, John, I've I've drawn
a knife and I love you. I love your brother. And it looks
a whole lot like the Horegan Fighter. I said, is it okay if
I use this design? He goes, Man, you're stupid, I said,
okay, okay, ranger Horegan. He goes, no, there,
there's no Yeah, everybody copies. Everybody in the sentis And he said,
thank you for asking. He said, you're the first guy's ever asked if
they could copy this. I said, oh, okay, So I made
a few little changes, but again it's to honor Bob and all the guys
that, yeah, you know, we work with and have gone before us,
and we'll come you know, for the future. So yeah, but
that that's yeah, that's kind of how I operate and how I think and
and yeah, so it's yes. And then there's the Mini Bob. That's
the e d C, the every day carry, the small one total total
length, and yeah, it's it's the Mini Bob. Yeah, I got
the gravy gutter. So that's my skin and knife, yes, yes,
sir, Yeah, and they and they range the Mini Bob's two twenty five
up to But I'm slowly transitioning into into stainless steel. So you know why
stainless Well, gosh, it's faster to make, it's easier, the heat
treat process is a lot better, and it doesn't rust. So you know
a lot of mine eyes go to guys that you know, military, police
officers in austere environments. And you know from what I here back from industry
is like, hey man, these knives rust or I gotta keep sharpening or
well, stainless doesn't. So yeah, I chose ae b L. That
stainless steel was invented in like nineteen fifty four. It's an old, old
stainless steel is originally used for razor blades, Yes, a e b L.
And so now I'm transitioning into stainless knives. So, but the rock
Well hardness is that's the that's what they used to measure the hardness of steel.
So my recipe for my hardening technique is about fifty seven to fifty eight
rock well for my eighty c RV or high carbon steel knives, and then
stainless are sixty two rock well. So they're very hard and they keep a
good, good edge. And I'm told that my knives are extremely sharp and
some of the sharpest knives they've read. And I put a band aid in
every bock and I've had probably four or five pictures sent to me. It's
like, hey, may your knife sharp. I was like, dude,
no, I told you it's sharp. Yeah, Uh, do you want
to show people these prototypes you're working on. So this is my newest hobby.
So, uh, mister Jim Poor Flatland Forge. He he called me
one day and and I've been working with Jim because he's close. He's an
hour and a half away. So he said, hey, I want to
I want to take a guy like you it doesn't have a machine shop,
that doesn't have a mill, you know, all these high end toolings to
make a slip joint pocket knife. I said, oh okay, So I
go out there, spend the weekend and a couple of weeks prior. I
want to learn how to make feather damascus. So it's another it's a very
popular Damascus steel for folding people that may folding knives, and Jim Poor feather
damascus is very very well known. I mean all the top pocket knife guys
or they buy the steel that he makes, the Damascus steel. So this
is the very first one. It's it's literally two pieces of steel, so
it's a blade and I don't know if you can see that, but this
is the feather Damascus that I learned to make. And then there's this piece
here and then I use G ten handles, so there's four pieces to this
knife, not including the pins. So this is the very first one I
made that weekend with Jim, and they're they're very difficult. Well, they're
very precise because they have to be hand fit, hand ground and Jim Poor
has a jig and there's there's other fellows slipt joint guys that have made jigs.
This Jim has his and he gave me one of his. So I
use this got a dial indicator on it. And when you're fitting this thing,
you have to you have to be within six to eight thousands and each
so open and then half close and then close, so you have to be
six to eight thousands tolerance in each three of those positions. Wow, I
was gonna say, Greg, that's like a pretty squared away first sport right
then. Yeah, yeah, but it's a beautiful. That one's really hard
to open. I've got that is pretty baller. Yeah. Yeah. This
was the second one. Uh, this is a cat's claw that I made.
This one was much smoother, and I was taught by the masters that
make these. And there there's there's a group in Texas. They're called the
slip Joint Cartel, and they're these guys are awesome and and they bubble crouch
and that whole crowd, mister Bill. But their Master Master Slip Joint pocket
knife makers. This was the second one. It's a lot smoother this one.
I forgot to polish the ends on it. I kind of got excited.
But this one's a lot smoother. And uh, but yeah, they're
very they're very light. And again there's you know, there's three pins.
There's a pivot pen and these are steel pins. Everybody carries a pocket knife.
But uh, and then this is I did a little redesign on this.
I moved this is. These are eight inch G ten. This is
three sixteenths G ten, So I'm thinking thicker, a little stronger, not
much difference in weight. But I moved this pen back point one two five
to try to get a little bit less stress on this piece right here.
And yeah, I think it's okay. But this one's a little bit a
little bit easier to open. But the masters taught me. They said,
your pocket knife it has to be able to be opened by a lady.
And I was like, oh, and a couple of guys says I lost
sales because a lady couldn't open the knife interesting. So yeah, we're we're
refining this and yeah, but they will be so yeah, this is this.
I just love making these things. Yeah, and just again the precision
to focus on them and it's a lot of work, Yeah, I can
see it. But yeah they're cool. They're simple and you know and and
the average you know, new knife amer can make these because you don't need
a mill, you don't need a machine shop, need a little grinder and
uh yeah you can make a pocket knife. Man. Flip joints are cool.
So uh so we had you, uh make six of these blades.
Yea, Dimitri, why didn't you tell us about this tree? So?
So? So are are these going to be team house exclusives that we that
we sell through the team house? Is that how we're doing this? Cemetri
with World Trade Center steel and uh and mini guns steel? Yeah? These
are these are beautiful, Greg, And I mean when what's it in the
D talk about it and we'll get us like, you know, tell us
about all this. I had no idea what you were going to make or
what it was. No, no, I thought you were charged this No,
no, this is this is beautiful. We want D said you were
just gonna laser print some stuff out water things sharp. I honest, the
God never could have like envisioned something like that. They're they're incredible. Thank
you, thank you. Yeah, they I'm very very proud of these blades.
They they're just they're they're amazing. I had great help and that I
had to. Man, I couldn't have met this T O T without that
help. So but we did it. Plush mind thirty seconds, right,
I mean, Jackie s break up the check book because I think we should
buy all these like there you go. It's good to have a first customer.
Yeah, probably, yeah, And these these are just for people just
so you guys know. You know, they they have they have Greg's brain
on them, which is the Crusader Cross, and then they also have the
Crusader shield and they also have the American flag and then they are number w
S one through six six Worst Steel, Worst Steal, that's what I named
it. So it's on stories on the website, so if they need to,
you know, refresh or go back look at the other original four.
Uh, and then these will also we will work it out because we don't
even we haven't talked about what we're gonna sell them for but we they will
come with a certificate, right, they will say that you know everything that
it is. And obviously these aren't your E d C knives. These are
these are collectible. These are collectibles. I have so much greed in my
eyes right now. I mean, well, Greg has some great d C
knives on Blakeser Brothers. Yeah, if you want an E d C.
I mean definitely check out the Bob Minnifighter. It's honestly what one of my
one of my favorite knives out there. It is an amazing knife. Man.
If I were still out there on patrol, I want these. I'm
just saying I would take I would pack it, I would take it.
I would never take it out on because I'd be afraid to get like sand
or scratched or whatever. And you're not gonna scratch you. The tools they're
yeah, they're meant to if you wanted to or needed to, you can
carry. You can go stab some Dave. We're gonna pour you a little
bit of this, all right, you're gonna like this stuff? Uh this
is the Japanese. Yeah, yeah, we're you want some of that?
Greg me to please, absolutely, man. We have a couple of questions
real quick, Grave, this is the coffee grain whiskey. Nice, very
very smooth. Good cheers, cheers, so great having you back many,
thank you so much, so Nation would thank you very much. Thanks Jack
and Dave for making this pod. It's inspired me to enlist post college grad.
Unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately, Uh, Air Force Spectra con has given
the best pitch so far. That's not unfortunate. Uh. Look, you
can't go wrong with her for us best lifestyle. They live the best,
they eat the best. Yeah, they fly the most technologically advanced there And
I don't know anything about Special Recon. That's what that's what like it's evolved
into. Yeah, yeah, but I will say that CCT and Pair Rescue
they used to have the best training typelines you could get like you everybody would
be jealous of their training pipeline. So I I like, again, I
don't know anything about special Recon in terms of what it is now, but
I know the Air Force back in the day, Air Force b ops,
you couldn't go wrong. Yeah, I mean by far produced you know CCT
guys or pair of guys. Yeah, yeah, I would. I would
tell him to get serious, but then don't ranger. Yeah, but you
know if if he if he did that and then when he gets in and
he sees how the other side lives, it would be pretty mad at Yeah.
With Air Force ops is you can go like do all the ranger stuff
we can without without like without like sitting on a wooden stool with your balls.
I'll just hitting it with a hammer, flowers on air, putting quarters
in trees. Question for a coke? Oh yeah yeah you did. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, alright, throwing M and M. Yeah, you're
trying to hit us eat his patrol cat because he thinks it's a pancake.
Yeah, jeff E, thank you very much. Thank you for the great
content on the awesome channel. Well, thank you, Jeff, We appreciate
it. Thank you. Yeah, so oh somebody, this episode is just
amazing. Thanks for bringing us the great content and mister Cocher sir so much
respect. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I mean this is a great
episode about the knives, but it's also like a great expanded story about your
transition out of military service. Yeah, yeah, you know, I think,
yes, critical key, it's important. Yes, you can be successful
and will yeah yes, yeah, I don't care what you choose, but
yeah, choose some reach out to reach out. There's hundreds literally hundreds of
foundations out there that can they can help you transition and you know, just
yeah, no, don't ever give up, never quit, never quit man.
Yeah. We we've talked about this before the show that we've all we've
all lost people to suicide and you know, kind of chasing that dragon and
everything. And it is challenging in our world because you know, all the
things like in high school when they tell you about you know, depression and
people who are you know, who are at risk of suicide, like all
the signs that you know, they say goodbye to people or they give all
their stuff away, Like none of that happens in our community. Like you
will talk to a guy one day and then the next day there's no indication.
And you know, and you've mentioned it like finding this purpose and you
know, like you're bringing vets down and showing then this stuff like finding a
new purpose, finding a new reason to be yes. And I think it's
really important too. It can't be understated just the neurological effects, the advantages
and benefits that you gained from from doing this, because especially when we start
going into blast injuries and TBIs that that that sort of that neurological or whatever
sort of cascade or deficiency, you know how it happens that you know the
brain. It's one of the things I say about hearing. When you start
losing your hearing, you start losing your speech, you start losing your thinking
things like that, And it's the same way with the TBI. Is not
not necessarily that exact thing. But the world gets darker and you don't exactly
know why, and you don't understand, right, you don't understand physiologically.
Okay, what's going on with me? I know there's something right, but
okay, I need to reach out and get some help, right, talk
to somebody, right, whatever the case? Right, Yes, but here
you found this hobby. Ye, So you hadn't even a you know,
you had no it's not like you wanted to be a writer or a musician
like you know you. I didn't want to be a writer, and I
wrote a book, right, thanks here for you? Yeah, yeah,
but you find this hobby that turns into not just a hobby, but you
know, but a new business and also a means of therapy for you.
Yes, absolutely, therapy absolutely helped my helps my brain helps me in my
everyday life. I'm sleeping now. That's my wife, and yeah, yeah,
it's it's incredible, it really is. And you know, and I'll
just talk a little bit about Blade's for Brothers. So about I don't know.
Five six weeks ago, my wife comes in on a Wednesday and says,
we have this big three bay building, big like eighteen foot ceiling.
She goes, you need to clean that building out. I was like,
excuse me, everything needs to come out of it. I said, okay,
called JJ Jared Johnson. I said, hey, man, I need
some help. He goes, okay, Sarge, I'll be there. So
we spent the whole day we cleaned the whole thing out. And then the
next morning, Thursday morning, I'm in my little knife shop. Truck pulls
up, got seven thirty and I'm like, who's this guy? I look
sa his spray phone insulation. So I walk out. Yeah, young kid.
I was like, what do you want? He goes, well,
sir, we're here to spray phone a building on who's authority? And he's
like, uh, missus cocher. I was like okay, So I started
laughing at you. I was like, okay, come on, mad so
yeah, she had coordinated this to she got spray phoned and then missus Coker
can get some sleep at night. And then she had one of the new
knife makers matchup was a combat engineer. So she pulls him in and says,
I need this. This this framed, and this is my vision.
And so we have a new shop while being built, and we got a
few of the walls up. Uh, it's going to be an amazing place.
We have a bunk house. She planned a bunk house upstairs for vets,
so when they come they have place to stay, a safe place they
can sleep. And you know, we can we can work on knives or
whatever they want to do. We have a huge hog problem in Cram,
Texas, and we have peters, So come make some knives. We'll go
shoot pigs that night, you know, so if you want a deer hunt,
whatever the case. But but Electrical is about halfway through and we're out
of money. I made some knives and so we can raise some money and
we'll also help some other nonprofits. What for whatever we raised with these blades,
And I just I love helping my brothers and sisters and their families,
Ghost Stars and all those folks. So yeah, but we're excited that the
shop is gonna be absolutely phenomenal when it's finished, and it'll be a cool
place. And I want you guys to come even Dmitri and I'll show you
guys how to make a blade. Dimitry didn't tell you what you need,
what we wanted you have in your shop. Daddy, he didn't like set
up the architecture. Know you end up with end up with a jacuzzi.
No, we do have a pool, so you out. Yeah, we
definitely to come down. That's a nice area too. Yeah, where it
really is it is Scott's Country. Yeah. We have a question on Patreon.
Sure can you give one or two tips for helicopter student pilots? Pilots
stay beautiful, Dave and Jack get shave hit me up. No, not
you Jack, I think, Oh for for helicopter pilots. So is he
is he doing? Is you know? Where is he in his training?
Two tips for helicopter Okay? So as a student, yeah, continue continue
through. I recommend and I tell this to all the young folks that want
to fly. He loves do It's much cheaper to do it and fixed wing
and do it. Then do your rotary wing transition. So go to fix
wing, get your privates, get your commercial, get your instrument, then
transition to rotary wing. Because it's so expensive to run helicopters. It is
probably four times the amount to run rotary wing. So that that that's one
of the things I do. But yeah, go make sure you get your
instrument rating. If they if they if they're looking to go into the military,
then yeah, that's that's that's gonna be a huge huge check mark in
that block when they go apply for that. I don't Yeah, good question.
Yeah I get I get a lot of questions from young folks that either
want to they're either started out in aviation and want to transition to the military,
or you know, they want to go into the army because the Army
is they're the only service that offers in high school to flight school. I
mean you can literally go from high school to I think it's Fort Novsel now
it used to be Fort Rutger. And we had two guys in my flight
school class are eighteen years old. I'm not kidding, and you know,
here we are a bunch of older dudes. And once we got to where
we could go off base of the week. Kid, they'd be riding skateboards
because they're only eighteen, they can drink beer, and we'd be like,
see you guys later, you know. Yeah this mister, do you want
ice? No, I'm good, I'm so So these high end knives we
need to we need to find you. We need to find some collectors for
for like the really high end ones. I think they would be honored to
own history or anybody. Yeah, I mean there's no more of the steel
left on the planet. Yeah, and there never will be. Yeah,
yeah, I just yeah, I pray that. Yeah, somebody would,
you know, be honored to own one of these pieces. And trust me,
if if I had the money, I would, I would. I
would buy it a heartbeat. I would buy an heartbeat. It's you know,
the people are out there. You know that the people are out there.
Maybe you know sixty thousand of our or thirty thousand of our viewers can
play two bucks each and like share it. Sure you know, su Yeah,
we'll figure it out. Yeah, it'll right person, right place,
right time. Yeah, good lord will and yes they will. Yeah they'll
have new owners. Yeah yeah they will absolutely, yes, yes sir.
Yeah, So so everybody make sure you check out Gregg's episode to hear like
all about his time in the one sixtieth about his you know, getting shot
down. Yeah, I have actually I have all those clipped on clips on
its check. Yeah. So Greg's episode is episode seventy four. Plus you
can look for the clips the shorts. Check out Gregg's book, buy it,
download it. Death Weights in the Dark six Guns Don't Miss. You
can get that on h on Amazon, and check out Blades for Brothers dot
com. Yes for uh, look, if you want some amazing yeah,
all the stuff is down in the links below. But if you want amazing
knives, you know, like check out great stuff. You'll love it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, shout out to to Arizona Knives. Brian,
I've had these the originals. They were kind of scattered about trying to raise
money and get auction off. And I called him another day. I was
like, hey, man, I need these blades back. I need to
take them to New York. He's boom punched on it. But yeah,
thanks thanks Brian. You guys, so, yeah, we'll get there.
Is there any place else anything else you're working on? Anyplace else anybody can
find you that you want to point out oh I think, yeah that these
pocket knives have just got me sucked in. And h I've got a new
Tomahawk design. So I'm all that a couple of guys and they're like,
oh, okay, it's no Yeah, there's nothing out there like it.
So I learned a few things when I was deployed. Yeah, I'm just
saying, not saying, but yeah, yeah, I think it'll be cool.
It'll probably come this winter. Yeah again, I got I've got a
manufacturer that's Greg Medford has said he would help me with these. And uh,
yeah, I look forward to doing a Teamhouse knife or blade, you
know whatever. Hey, maybe ask you know, ask our viewers what what
would you like? What would you like to see? Yeah, So if
we're going to do a limited edition or even maybe not even a limited edition,
but but maybe an E D C for the Teamhouse, let us know
down in the comments. Ye kind of blazer guy. So, and this
Friday, we will have William Yeski on the show eighty second Airborne. Uh
yeah, you wrote a book that I can't recall the title of off the
top of my good call there d yeah, good D. So we will
have him here on Friday to discuss his book and his military careers. We're
excited about that. And uh oh and check out our Patreon the links down
the description if you want to get access to these episodes ad free. Uh
and that's that's really it. Unlet's Greg and and bonus episodes where you get
to hear Jack and I just shoot the ship. You have, you have
Titi spill. I have a lot to go on here first. And so
I can't say smart. I can say he is so incredibly smart. You
can say he's fucking smart on our channel. We're eighteen and over. Yeah,
yeah, you can't. You can't have a military channel where you drink
on live stream and not curse. Yeah, he's a wonderful, wonderful and
he's incredibly challenged and his community. Thank you. If you guys can't hear
that gravy testament from his wife, which is really the toughest testament you can
get, honestly, that he's a wonderful, wonderful man, dedicated to the
community and just so fucking smart. And we agree with all that. Yeah,
so solid endorsement. Deal. Yeah, and I'll close with you know,
the knife making, So every penny spent on a knife goes back into
blades for brothers, and it's five O, one C three. I have
not spent one penny one dime. Everything goes back into the shop, or
it goes into steal or materials to bring bets in and grinders, you know,
whatever I can do to help help these guys and gals and family members
that you don't want to do this or or heck, yeah, man,
it's I don't need any money, guys and gals, but yet there we're
working on it. We'll work on it. I appreciate so much that you
say, guys, yeah, well it may be a gold star mom and
y a sister whos sister? Yeah? I just I just had a conversation
with Russ Ripto, his sister. She reached out to me through social media,
and I had known Russ for years. He was the f s O
for three seven fives and got killed at Headeth the Dance. Yes, yeah,
yeah, and yeah Russ and oh I had a wonderful conversation with her
for an hour and a half. The I met his father years ago,
Yes, Colonel Ripto, Yes, sir, Yeah, super nice Scotty,
Like you never meet a bigger advocate of the Rangers than you, Colonel,
Yes, sure, yeah, yeah, that was just it was heartwarming.
And yeah, I was honored that I could. She just want to know
about Russ. That's cool, Yes, and I and I Yeah, I
get people reach out to me all the time, and I'm honored to do
that. Yeah, I told her, come now make a knife. Well,
Greg, thank you again for you know, you and your wife making
it all the way up here to New York and working on these and you
know, we hope that we can help you with all of this. I
hope you. Yeah, well we're excited about it. Yeah, I'm very
excited. Thank you, Jack, Thank you, d thank you to thanks
for the daggers. Yeah and uh so yeah, more to follow and we
will see all you guys on Friday. So take care out there. How do you