1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,200 There are situations where people where employers want to record what the employee's doing because 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,320 they have no other way of tracking them, so they put some software on 3 00:00:08,359 --> 00:00:13,439 their computer, but they don't necessarily inform the employee of that at certain state's 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,960 required or some type of disclosure, So there could be some violations of law 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,920 in that respect. Though. Yeah, it's a mess. And then you 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,719 know, obviously now it's the talent pool. Some people allow people to work 7 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:28,120 from home or at least a hybrid schedule, hoping they could get better talent 8 00:00:28,239 --> 00:00:33,079 for less money. You are listening to Carrie Let's's Financial Survival Network where you 9 00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:39,039 get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else to thrive in today's trying times. 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,719 You need the Financial Survival Network now more than ever. Go to Financial 11 00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:51,840 Survivalnetwork dot com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial Survival Network now 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:01:00,600 more than ever, and welcome. You are listening to the Financial surviv Network 13 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,840 on your host Carrie Lutts. Well, you know, the big trend remote 14 00:01:03,879 --> 00:01:08,079 work seems to be the companies are backing off on that for a number of 15 00:01:08,159 --> 00:01:15,920 reasons. One major reason that you probably aren't aware of is the potential legal 16 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,799 aspects, the liabilities involved with you working at home. What happens if you 17 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,799 know you're at home and you trip and you bang your head on your desk 18 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:32,680 and you wind up in the hospital. Who's liable for this workman's comp all 19 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,719 that there's a lot of legal issues. John Bell is with us from Bell 20 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,400 Lug Group, and John, you are New Yorker, and I guess you've 21 00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:48,200 been dealing with this trend a lot, considering all those empty high rises in 22 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:53,400 Manhattan. Now that's correct, I'm going to laboring employment attorney in Siosi, 23 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:57,439 a long Island. So there's been so many dated in the landscape. First 24 00:01:57,519 --> 00:02:04,319 off, getting everybody to the virtual reality of trying to be productive in the 25 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,159 in the from home, and then now the trend seems to be, like 26 00:02:07,199 --> 00:02:12,560 you said, getting everybody back in the workplace, which is making some employees 27 00:02:12,719 --> 00:02:17,400 very unhappy, and the legal implications involved both while they were home and now 28 00:02:17,479 --> 00:02:22,719 transitioning back. You know, the couple of big ones that I've seen while 29 00:02:22,759 --> 00:02:28,759 people have been working from home has been the hourly employees relating to time and 30 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:34,000 attendance and how that's being reported. Apparently a lot of employees now feel like 31 00:02:34,039 --> 00:02:38,840 they have flexibility to work after hours and sometimes more than forty hours a week, 32 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,360 and it's up to the employer to somehow track that time and pay people 33 00:02:43,479 --> 00:02:46,960 time and a half for that work, which is required under at least here 34 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,639 in New York, New York State and New York City law. And then 35 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:57,639 you have the federal law, the FLSA that guides us under the overtime laws 36 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,560 as well, So that seems to be a huge problem. There's also times 37 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:07,039 when people don't when employees don't necessarily record their lead if they have to go 38 00:03:07,039 --> 00:03:09,560 out to a doctor's appointment or not take off some time during the day. 39 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:15,360 Employers are finding difficult to track when to use PTO when not, if you 40 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,479 could use it for all of the day, all of the day, and 41 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,240 things of that nature. So that's a big one, right, so tracking 42 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,280 your employees, and I would think there more sophisticated companies. The larger entities 43 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,240 have got systems in place to do all that tracking, but smaller companies probably 44 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:38,240 are remiss. And you know, in places like Germany, you're not allowed 45 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:44,000 to work more than forty hours a week and if you do, the company 46 00:03:44,039 --> 00:03:49,719 can be fined a lot of money and they have to actually file reports on 47 00:03:49,879 --> 00:03:53,680 time keeping with the government, how much your employees worked, et cetera. 48 00:03:53,800 --> 00:04:00,680 And I've heard of a number of large companies actually just kind of fudging those 49 00:04:00,719 --> 00:04:04,000 reports. Yeah, well, let's not get the word out too much around 50 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,080 here. And one of my employees now moving to Germany as a result. 51 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:14,280 That's it's caramel hey. And then like, how do you prove that you 52 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,319 work more than forty hours? It's if you don't have that tracking system in 53 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:24,319 place, it's very difficult to actually track people. I mean, and nice. 54 00:04:24,319 --> 00:04:29,600 It's theory. The computer is on everybody's doing their business, it's tracking. 55 00:04:30,079 --> 00:04:32,439 But the reality is tracking is a lot harder than that, Isn't it 56 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,079 Tracking a lot harder, And it's still fault on the employer. So the 57 00:04:36,079 --> 00:04:40,439 employer can't point to the employee and say, well, the employee didn't let 58 00:04:40,439 --> 00:04:44,519 me know they're we're working after hours. And what employers have to understand too, 59 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,160 is now they're getting used to a texting and calling situation when the employees 60 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:53,360 at home, and then they might lose those boundaries because they used to seeing 61 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,480 somebody in the office and speak with them, and they might call them or 62 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:01,480 text them later than you know the regular work hour and expect these people to 63 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,639 check their email after hours while they're not being compensated. Now understand again, 64 00:05:05,639 --> 00:05:11,560 if you're properly on salary, properly on salary, then it's not an issue. 65 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,399 But a hourly worker, it is an issue. And the biggest issue 66 00:05:15,439 --> 00:05:19,920 I'm seeing Kerry with coming back to the workplace. A lot of calls I'm 67 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:26,879 getting from small, medium, and large sized companies are the employees that don't 68 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,680 want to come back to the workplace but are claiming some type of medical condition 69 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,959 which is preventing them from come back to the workplace. So, in that 70 00:05:34,079 --> 00:05:42,120 situation, if an employee provides medical documentation that they could perform the essential functions 71 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,040 of the job at home and they do have some type of medical condition which 72 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:50,040 allows them or whether they're required to work from GOLM, what does the employer 73 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:55,240 do and what actions to the employer has to take, such as engaging in 74 00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:03,399 the interactive process. A lot of these employers are screwedining these medical records and 75 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:09,279 notes in believing the employees just making something like this up. But there has 76 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,839 to be some interactive process potentially or a view from your own physician to see 77 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,519 if it's warranted and it could be a reasonable accommodation where such requests get the 78 00:06:19,639 --> 00:06:23,879 denied. Yeah, well that brings another thing though, the at home work, 79 00:06:23,959 --> 00:06:31,079 the remote work really gives opportunities to people who are legitimately disabled and legitimately 80 00:06:31,199 --> 00:06:36,720 can't get to the office or in the case of new mothers, new parents 81 00:06:38,199 --> 00:06:44,720 where they might otherwise quit. But in this case, because they can work 82 00:06:44,759 --> 00:06:48,199 from home, you still get the benefit of their efforts. Yes, and 83 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,480 that's a very good point. And then when the employer does make a quote 84 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,199 unquote exception or even if they're following the law under the Americans with Disability, 85 00:06:58,199 --> 00:07:01,439 that other employees may catch wins of it and claim that they're being treated differently. 86 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,399 And why are they forced to go back into the workplace understanding that there's 87 00:07:05,439 --> 00:07:10,360 a linked or requirement that you may have to provide that employee with a specific 88 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,839 accommodation. So then it causes unne unnecessary hostility in the workplace when one employee 89 00:07:15,879 --> 00:07:20,800 is comparing themselves to another one. Yeah, so this thing seems like wonderful 90 00:07:20,839 --> 00:07:25,480 in theory, but it's really kind of a mess, isn't it. It 91 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,000 is a mess. It is a mess. And from what my research is 92 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:35,000 the majority of people who are working from home, they are thirty five percent 93 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,160 more likely to be terminated when they refuse to come back into work. And 94 00:07:40,199 --> 00:07:44,879 I understand an employer can change their mind and require people to come back to 95 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,680 work. The only exception that I know of is, like I said, 96 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:54,439 if there's a medical condition requires some reasonab accommodation. There may be some other 97 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,879 leave requirements, right like FMLA or paid family leave, the things that I 98 00:08:00,439 --> 00:08:03,319 nature that could cover the growth of a newborn. But in that situation, 99 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:07,240 you're not working from home. You're allowed to stay home, and you have 100 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:11,759 some job security from when you want to return into the workplace. But for 101 00:08:11,879 --> 00:08:18,959 actually working at home, it's basically the Americans with disabilities at that an employee 102 00:08:18,279 --> 00:08:24,480 that qualifies can rely on to stay working from home and be gainfully employed. 103 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:31,120 Yeah, so it's really interesting because really with email, with texting, with 104 00:08:31,559 --> 00:08:37,720 remote work, it kind of with the cloud based computing, this trend was 105 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:43,240 really underway for many years before we woke up one day during the pandemic and 106 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:48,559 realized, hey, you can work remotely. So we were going to get 107 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,240 here anyway. I guess the pandemic speeded it up by several years, and 108 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:56,559 it certainly did, and probably to a greater extent than we would have ordinarily 109 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,279 gone there. You know that there's substantial community difficulties where people work from home. 110 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:07,080 You just can't have those meetings. There's some cybersecurity risks that I've learned 111 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,519 of. Obviously in certain situations, you're dealing with lower productivity from workers. 112 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:18,080 There are situations where people where employers want to record what the employee's doing because 113 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,200 they have no other way of tracking them, so they put some software on 114 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,600 their computer, but they don't necessarily inform the employee of that. At certain 115 00:09:24,639 --> 00:09:30,519 states required or some type of disclosure, So there could be some violations of 116 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,799 law in that respect. So yeah, it's a mess. And then you 117 00:09:33,799 --> 00:09:37,600 know, obviously now it's the talent pole. Some people allow people to work 118 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,000 from home or at least a hybrid schedule, hoping they could get better talent 119 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,320 for less money. Yeah, well, I know, like my daughter, 120 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:50,039 you know, she's on permanent remote status with a major tech company, and 121 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,639 they seem to be very happy with the way it is. But I'm sure, 122 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:01,000 I'm sure it's very challenging, especially with that lerk Ser titious monitoring of 123 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:07,360 employees to shoot, be sure that they're living by the rules, because if 124 00:10:07,399 --> 00:10:11,159 you don't tell them, I think you got some real problems there. Absolutely 125 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:16,080 absolutely we in my Love firm, we have about eighteen attorneys. Most of 126 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,759 them take advantage of a hybrid schedule work from home schedule, and you tend 127 00:10:20,799 --> 00:10:26,240 to learn fairly quickly which attorneys can work in that type of environment and which 128 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:31,840 attorneys are taking advantage of it. So this flows not only to business organizations, 129 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,879 large companies, small companies, medium sized and professionals. Yeah, so 130 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,960 what about the more traditional like Workmen's COP thing you get injured at home, 131 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,080 you know, for one thing, Hey, you could still work from home 132 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:54,519 probably right, sure. I mean I've heard of employees that they're in technically 133 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,440 working and they're working from home and they bang their knee against their desk, 134 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,200 but in a worker's com claim to cover the medical fees and things of that 135 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,320 nature. So yeah, if you're in the course of your employment and you 136 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,639 injure yourself, you could follow workers COP and workers COP will cover you as 137 00:11:09,639 --> 00:11:13,200 opposed to going through your regular medical insurance, which if you have insurance, 138 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,919 you can do that as well. So I guess you advise clients about this 139 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,919 if you put together some kind of checklist or guidebook or white paper for your 140 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,840 clients so that they don't run a foul. So personally, no, my 141 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,679 firm hasn't done that. We have our regular employer clients that we regularly counsel 142 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:39,320 and they contact us specific to certain questions. We also have employees that we 143 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:45,759 represent that where the employer allegedly runs a foul of the laws and rules, 144 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,000 which we've capitalized on because there has been a lot of there's been a number 145 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:56,080 of mistakes during this transition. So but yeah, the my advice would be 146 00:11:56,399 --> 00:12:01,559 work with the knowledgeable HR representative or make contact with a local leave an employment 147 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,919 attorney to learn these rules, what you can do and what you can do 148 00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:11,120 because it's a fluid environment employment law that you're not just related to working from 149 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:16,279 home and getting people back in the office, but generally with different changes in 150 00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:20,960 the law that happened, you know, annually and even more frequent than that, 151 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:26,320 you need to be apprized because an employer could really get themselves in trouble 152 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,480 if not up on the different changes of the law at the time those laws 153 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:37,120 are being paid right and I would think that that really you have to you 154 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:43,759 really have to update your employee handbooks and manuals and things like that to reflect 155 00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:48,720 the new reality here. Absolutely, there's always changed in minimum weight, in 156 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,200 paid family leading and things of that nature. All right, Hey, so 157 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,000 people want to find out more. They want to talk to you about this, 158 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,120 John, get some advice, some counsel. How do you reach you? 159 00:13:01,399 --> 00:13:05,559 How do they reach you? H? Five y five? John Bell, 160 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,159 that's eight five five five six six two three five five. My website 161 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:15,759 is BELLLG is in Law Group, BELLLG dot com. All right, excellent. 162 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,639 Hey, you've got a question for John myself. You can always send 163 00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:24,399 me an email Klatcarrie LUTs dot com and you can find a link directly to 164 00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:30,279 John's site on our site, Financial Survival Network dot com in the show notes 165 00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:33,120 of this interview. While you're there, sign up for your free newsletter. 166 00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:35,919 John. Appreciate you coming on and we'll talk to you again soon. Carrie, 167 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:41,960 I really appreciate it. Thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network 168 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:48,120 your solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go to Financial Survivalnetwork 169 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:52,639 dot com. Financial Survival Network now more than ever,