1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,040 The book, by the way, very bacchal it took me. Look, 2 00:00:04,599 --> 00:00:09,279 I've been wanting the names or what have you. So while as going on 3 00:00:09,279 --> 00:00:14,599 on the other shie, the insurance industry, independent insurance industry was undergoing a 4 00:00:14,759 --> 00:00:20,399 really difficult time. You were listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network, where 5 00:00:20,399 --> 00:00:25,559 you get valuable information. You just can't find anywhere else to thrive in today's 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:31,280 trying times. You need the Financial Survival Network now more than ever. Go 7 00:00:31,399 --> 00:00:36,920 to Financial Survival Network dot com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial 8 00:00:37,039 --> 00:00:46,719 Survival Network now more than ever. And welcome you are listening to watching the 9 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:52,200 Financial Survival Network. I'm your host, Carrie Lutts. Well, hey got 10 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,679 interesting guest on now. As he says, most people's worst nightmare is a 11 00:00:57,679 --> 00:01:02,320 problem with the IRS and the bank. Jim and Massillo, our guest had 12 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,760 both coming after him for tens of millions of dollars. He's widely known. 13 00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:12,000 Jim, you are widely known as the founder of insurance giant SIAA and that's 14 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:19,760 Strategic Insurance Agency Alliance. Thanks for coming on. So after having banks in 15 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,719 the IRS come after you and publishing a book about it called screw you. 16 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:30,000 That's screw like the screw and you just the letter you writing the book, 17 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,840 go what do you learn from all your travails with banking and with the irs? 18 00:01:36,239 --> 00:01:40,640 Well, well, thanks for having me on number one. It wasn't 19 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,959 a pleasant experience. But just let me let me set the parameters on the 20 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:52,519 book very briefly. It's really then I'll go into the data. But the 21 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,920 battles with the banks are going on simultaneously, were with my work on creating 22 00:01:59,159 --> 00:02:04,680 SIAA, which is the natural program. What had happened. We did a 23 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:12,120 lot of building offices, residential whatever analogy as a side parting. And the 24 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,360 banks, the beds changed the tax code. It took several years to catch 25 00:02:16,439 --> 00:02:23,319 up with us, but they changed it. They changed you couldn't take where 26 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,120 you could take losses before you had can work that appreciation. So instead of 27 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,840 taking a loss in the year that's occurred, now you've got to go seven 28 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:37,280 years, five years. I don't know what happened to be. So suddenly 29 00:02:37,439 --> 00:02:42,479 the banks and the banks in New Hampshire they are five and the Resolution Trust, 30 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,520 which people all remember, they came in one day, took overall and 31 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:54,759 they have brought the big banks who didn't care anything about New Hampshire or businesses 32 00:02:54,879 --> 00:03:00,039 or what have you. They just wrecking the commons. So one day I 33 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:07,680 started getting um these letters demand demanding you know, loan balance of performing loan 34 00:03:07,879 --> 00:03:12,879 balance, um, and there was no way out. Thanks didn't care about 35 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:20,520 anything you want before. Fortunately for me, I've always said very solid counting 36 00:03:20,719 --> 00:03:25,039 and tax advice. And my person at the type WI steal this way. 37 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:30,240 Um. You know, he just said, I don't know how you're going 38 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,639 to do this, but you're insolvent, so young insolvent, you can fall 39 00:03:32,759 --> 00:03:37,199 bankers. A couple of things I'm going to add. One is a moment 40 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,360 bankers too. If I'm insolved, I can beat the hell out of these 41 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:46,879 banks because they can't get anything. So it sets up a perfect negotiation by 42 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:51,280 uh. And you know it was. It was the book, by the 43 00:03:51,319 --> 00:03:54,319 way, very factual. It took me a long time. I didn't want 44 00:03:54,360 --> 00:04:00,680 any names or what happing. So while ask going on on the other shy. 45 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,319 The insurance industry, the independent insurance industry was undergoing a really difficult time 46 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:11,560 and arvan act we call it hard market insurance companies more an appointing new agents 47 00:04:11,719 --> 00:04:17,639 raising their rates significantly low in condissions and become very selective, wanting to play 48 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:24,680 just a very large regional urban type. So let it set up a perfect 49 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,279 situation, because I thought, we're even doing it in New Wayland's as a 50 00:04:28,319 --> 00:04:32,439 matter of picking it up and taking it out on a broader geographic basis, 51 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,279 which is what we did very successfully. So I get the banks chasing me, 52 00:04:36,879 --> 00:04:44,639 I arrested. Is the story under itself and lovell rely that and it's 53 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,160 the good and the bad, the positive and negative at all coming together one 54 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:55,360 time. It was very interesting time for me, I tell you. So 55 00:04:56,319 --> 00:05:02,000 down the road we marched, and fortunately I was able to negotiate for the 56 00:05:02,079 --> 00:05:06,519 banks. Having done that, we just tell them to go to house. 57 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,399 You're you what it's all in the book. You know there's no mystery bankers. 58 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,399 You know you have a tendency to always name an institution like that or 59 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,839 you know that bank. Well, there's people, and as the FEDS game 60 00:05:21,439 --> 00:05:28,959 in more prominence, these people started displaying their competence. So I can't tell 61 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,639 you it was fun, because it wasn't fun, but they were satisfying moments 62 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:35,680 when I meet the banks one on one and I restricted the time that they 63 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:41,319 could contact me that they had real call the court, and by the time 64 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,759 we get the court, we were able to get the bank and agree position 65 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,399 relative. I didn't you know that? That's generally the essence of the books, 66 00:05:51,399 --> 00:05:57,199 so you get parallel stories that really were occurring at some time. All 67 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,759 right, So how long did this fight go on? For? Three? 68 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,480 Two years? Pretty intense two years? Okay, he must have spent a 69 00:06:05,519 --> 00:06:11,720 lot in legal for you. Huh. Now, now you're going in the 70 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,600 right direction. I had a former congressman who was an attorney with a close 71 00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:23,959 friend who I had done some things for prior years him, I'll write my 72 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,199 own communications and I'll be able directly with the banks' bo it's going to have 73 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:34,399 you or whatever. Um. And I did that, and you know it 74 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,839 was it was pretty strong. I mean I could be in two chords in 75 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,800 the same day, one lend of look people a couple million dollars, another 76 00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:49,680 Lendon looking another out. It was done. As I reflect on it, 77 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:55,800 you know, fortunately, good advice. You can't put a dollar side because 78 00:06:55,879 --> 00:07:03,639 the good advice early on I see yeah and uh and and also attorney for 79 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:09,279 attorney they staid, and you need to put your operating businesses into the irredicable 80 00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:15,879 price or your FAMILYM well, four year that's when all this happened. You 81 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:24,319 can't get out. My core businesses were going by you, growing them and 82 00:07:24,839 --> 00:07:30,519 lead banks and the irs just to become a battle right probably of that? 83 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,920 Yeah? Interesting? Interesting? So what about the IRS? What how did 84 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,160 you deal with them? How did you beat them? Well, they came, 85 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,439 okay, Ellen, I don't meet people one on one. It's just 86 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:51,720 not my style. And so I had my my lead castle and my league 87 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,480 gain them powers of attorney to people. The I arrest and a drive. 88 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,319 Yeah, her sister meeting, he said, no, go to hell. 89 00:08:05,879 --> 00:08:11,560 You know I've got but it's an authority with my representatives. One of the 90 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:16,000 members of that accounting firm had been an IRS manager. He called me one 91 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:20,240 day he said, look, Jim, I know that this isn't anything you 92 00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:22,319 want to do, but I think it could be bad. Social said, 93 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,240 so can we meet? We meet in your office in your corfence room. 94 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,639 Will limit who can be there, and you can meet this first. And 95 00:08:30,759 --> 00:08:33,080 I, at first, I said I need to think about it. Said 96 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:41,159 okay, fine. Person walks in the dancer RS manager and it was a 97 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,759 she and she came up to me and we shook hands, and she said, 98 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:46,720 and mister mass say hello, I can't tell you he's dime to meet 99 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:50,559 you, not thinking that back in my head and you're a million that all 100 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:54,960 this pleased to meet me. So she said, you know, I have 101 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,120 to tell you, I am so crazy that you would do this for mean 102 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,720 man. This is an IRS agent. You don't know whether they're going. 103 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:09,919 You are in phoenix, and it's should she said, phoenix. I mean 104 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,039 that registered. You know in other ways. You may have problems now, 105 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,360 but you're going to come back. And when you come back, I'm gonna 106 00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:20,200 be here with my hand. That's what the phoenix is. If during the 107 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,720 course of the meeting, this person said, well, have you considered filing 108 00:09:26,279 --> 00:09:31,279 chapter seven? Finally, chapter seven. I didn't cause the problem. I 109 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,840 will, you know, I'll make these problems go away all the time. 110 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,480 But I'm not filing chapter seven. He said, well, that's pretty remarkable, 111 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:43,720 but if you did, I'm half of your that of what you all 112 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:52,559 would disappear. Now the person and we see the gap him I mentioned before 113 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:58,159 about went under the paper pages. You've never seen a film, yeah, 114 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:03,159 said, you don't have to pay me yeah, in fact, that just 115 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,240 doesn't happen. So um, she said, well would you she said, 116 00:10:07,919 --> 00:10:11,759 I, whatever you tell me, I'm taking your words, and I know 117 00:10:11,919 --> 00:10:16,080 I know you. So she said, would you agree to four hundred dollars 118 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,879 a month? There's a million? Five? Okay, one hundred dollars a 119 00:10:18,919 --> 00:10:24,759 month or ten years and then I think it's going to give me ten years 120 00:10:24,799 --> 00:10:28,720 to you know a little away. But ten he has paid or four hundred 121 00:10:28,759 --> 00:10:33,200 dollars paid the high arrest dollars a month. You the math room, you 122 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:41,440 know it's uh eight thousand dollars. Yeah. So now we had about about 123 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:50,519 six months to go, and my councilor hes all right. At one point 124 00:10:50,679 --> 00:11:01,320 he's probably like his office chapter payment when it's due. Jared revenue Way and 125 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:07,399 Cory and they came back said there is no battle, and uh called me. 126 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,720 I don't know what's going on. He says, but hi, resident, 127 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:16,720 you owe them anything? Yea for you have pinions? You Well, 128 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:22,440 that's certainly the anything. Well are you going and darroling? What happens if 129 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,360 you do a deal with the irs? You owe them money? They have 130 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:33,600 to both the process. It's called eighteen at you you individually and also what 131 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:39,759 they brought up skips, so they they never updated by statue. So at 132 00:11:39,759 --> 00:11:43,960 the end of ten years, been paying forty eight thousand dollars, still old 133 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:48,000 them like about a million and four. They went away, Wow, and 134 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:54,960 that's like the irs that country western music song, uh saying take me off 135 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,120 your mailing list to the irs? Right, Well, it was, it 136 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:07,600 was interesting, and they are kind of an overly zealous agent working on us, 137 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,679 you know, to a point where I basically told him going to dowla 138 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:20,600 one bother than me. Yeah right, you can't tell travel refer you. 139 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:26,000 Is the end of that, all right. So, so what you learned 140 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:33,120 from all this? Damn lucky. Better to be lucky than smart. Uh 141 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:39,600 well, you know people use that word luck a lot when you're doing enough 142 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:45,279 stuff about that dumb blocks awhere. Yeah, well, you know what Thomas 143 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,679 Edison said, what some people call luck, I call overall and uh hard 144 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,919 work, right, that's what it is. Hard work. Enery's luck for 145 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,320 sure. So people starting out now in similar businesses or in any business, 146 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:09,799 what would you tell a young entrepreneur premire a vantage point experience? You know 147 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,879 it, this isn't this is a little bit pob I have to elaborate. 148 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:20,080 I'm never starting. I had my agency and I wanted to grow it. 149 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,320 Warps in small state, but you know where I was located at fifty my 150 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:35,120 alessil elevation, that market and experience and so you know, my agency is 151 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,200 doing very well. It was a bad time for insurance agencies and companies, 152 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:46,559 yet my reputation was strong and repossible business and our companies I asked them to 153 00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:54,360 do something. They did it because the few organizations and I never started it 154 00:13:54,440 --> 00:14:00,600 to cash out. I never started it. That's never my goal period because 155 00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:05,360 I think that that then takes you off course. Last year, lucky h 156 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,559 doesn't, I don't know, you know, I started selling life insurance. 157 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:16,799 Uh. I worked seven weeks for PPG as bricklay Glass out of college manaking 158 00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:26,960 trainee. This is a woman long too. I pittually left that one morning 159 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:35,600 again I had cat back, So you know, so I started selling life 160 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:41,639 insurance. As they stole life insurance out the opportunities one advice and well I 161 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:46,720 wouldn't fall into them because an opportunities, it's just it is that an opportunity 162 00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:54,679 you can only you know, utilize it you any places. But I got 163 00:14:54,879 --> 00:15:00,480 very successful and yeah, you know, if you start trying to starting, 164 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:09,000 I lost to be the type of you can get your get your personality and 165 00:15:09,919 --> 00:15:22,120 relationship building. That is the Harry what uh you know ball and just persist 166 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:28,519 uh that And it appened. It's just a it's really hard to tell because 167 00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:31,720 what I did is kind of ACU. I went against the green on most 168 00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:39,360 stop and I loved it because the football situation, I never considered it difficult 169 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:45,120 forty years and I'm like Escort in the middle of maybe different called the lives 170 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,000 goodness and I would buy I can't tell you that the just stare at that 171 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:54,440 pot. Yeah, not saying here about what can you do? Get me 172 00:15:54,519 --> 00:15:58,840 going? All right, Chance, It's been great having you on the show. 173 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,480 We'll have a link in the show notes to your book Screw You, 174 00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:08,519 available on Amazon. If you've got a question her James or myself, shoot 175 00:16:08,559 --> 00:16:15,159 me an email platcarry Lutz dot com and you'll find the link of the show 176 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,320 notes of the interview on Financial Survival Network dot com. And while you're there, 177 00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:26,399 please please sign up and get your free newsletter. James wish you the 178 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,559 best of luck on the book and we'll talk to you again. Thank you. 179 00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:34,519 Carry Thanks for listening to Carrie Lutz's Financial Survival Network, your solution to 180 00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:41,000 today's trying times. For the latest, go to Financial Survival Network dot com. 181 00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:44,840 Financial Survival Network now more than ever,