This is a review that the Atheist Community of Austin recently received. Jesus Loves
You. God's speech is how he communicates his kingship to the world. We
also see this in the covenance the Lord made with his people. God reveals
himself. God reveals himself to Abraham, and a promise back to relationship has
begun Genesis twelve one to three. First he spoke to the stars, then
makes promises with them Genesis fifteen four to five. Believe in God. God
is the reason you are here. Now. There are a couple of things
I want to say about this, and the first is that you shouldn't leave
a one star review for anybody just because you disagree with them. That's just
dishonest, blatantly. So God would be very, very disappointed with you.
So to redress the balance of this very naughty person, I think those of
you who have received benefit for the services of the ACA should leave a five
star reviewer as soon as you've finished listening to this show. In addition,
and I will never get bored of saying this, preaching is the least likely
thing you can do to convince me that God exists. In fact, preaching
suggests to me that you have nothing compelling to present at all. If you
genuinely want me to believe God exists, call the show present evidence or a
compelling argument, and I will have no choice but to believe. Let's have
a conversation where mutual exploration leaves me compelled to accept God's existence. If you
want me to accept God, stop preaching and call the show, because the
show is starting now. Well, come, welcome, Welcome. It is
March twenty four, twenty twenty four. I am your host, Richard Julliver,
and joining me today is the incomprehensible Phoebe Vieos Hello, fevere. Never
been called incomprehensible before. Now that's a new one, even for me.
I've been called in congurous, I've been called superlative, I've been told time
and I've been that they've run out. I suppose that incomprehensible. It's a
term I have never had used to me. I suppose, you know,
when I do go into legal ease and stuff, I can you know,
starts not just thinking like a lawyer, but talking like a lawyer, but
you know, incomprehensible. It was almost as incomprehensible as that one story.
If you you just read out it was indeed almost as incomprehensible me broadcasting from
your basement. Oh it's it's incredible. It's a wonderful basement, isn't it.
It's a wonderful base. Talk Heathen is a product of the Atheist Community
of Austin, a five H one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion
of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of religion and
government. Talkkeithen is a life calling show and we have open lines, so
if you want to call us, you can do so on five one two
nine one, nine to four to two or from your computer at tiny dot
c c slash call t e H. But first, every week we go
through the Talk Heathen to Me segment where we get to the questions of the
week. Last week we asked you what is God's idea of a perfect woman?
And here are our top three answers. Number three see not three two
four four God's idea of the perfect woman? A married woman who hasn't consummuted
their wedding yet, fever hord. Do you think about that? One depends
what you mean by consummated in this case. Look, hell, you're on
the show, expector Lawyer's answer. I mean, but yeah, so what
is the word yet me? What if you're what if you're what if you're
you know, just building up to it? Is that the moment before way
wall? Yeah? Or is it just as you finished it on the way?
Is this God foreplay just for the benefit of the viewers? Me and
PHOEBEA are going to have tremendous fun during this foe for sure, whether you
do or not. Number two, it's X million seventeen oh four. God's
perfect woman listens to a talking snake, affecting the downfall of his entire creation
precisely according to his plan. That's pretty accurate, Phoebe. I've worked out
where the main plot point of the entire Harry Potter series is, because you
know, he talks to snakes and it's the downfall of the main character.
It's shaken directly from the Bible. That's it. It would not be like
that particular author to take things from other places at all, would it not?
Shouldn't have probably said that. Laura Joell sixty one eighty seven, responding
to the show last week, says, great show, guys, Sophia.
Yeah, love the hair, Jimmy, love your shirt. You both look
great. In answer to the question God's perfect woman, barbe perfect looks can't
speak storable. I have to admit when I read that one last week,
that actually made me laugh when I laugh out loud when I saw that one.
And here's the right question. Here's the thing missing at the end,
hotel value we are I'm not going to be able to concentrate all this week.
The prompt of the week for next week is complete the sentence it was
fucked up when God blank and to your best answer below the video in the
comments, and next week we will reveal the top three answers. But let
me get your handswer febe complete the sentence, it was fucked up when God
blank covered up an affair just that well you know Mary and Joseph. You
know he covered up that affair because you're clearly Mary, you know, was
having an affair. If Joyceph wasn't the you know, the father, it's
an affair, Yeah it was. It's quite a strange affair as well.
I'm sending down a part of me, which isn't me to impregnate you on
my behalf, to have my son, which is also your son, not
your husband's son. It gets quite complicated that old by eating sometimes, isn't
it. We are looking forward to your answers for that question next week.
What's yours? What's your answer? I've not thought of an answer. You
don't put me on the spot like that. I mean, come on,
complete the sentence. It was fucked up when God blank that there is so
much to choose from. I think possibly my go to for this is requested,
requested. No, listen, this is in the Bible, Christians,
please go and look it up. In number thirty one requested that virgin girls
be taken as spoils of war. But not that, oh no, no,
no, no, no, no no. Not just that. God
wasn't content with requesting virgin girls taken as spoils of war and divid up amongst
his troops. He requested his own portion of those virgin girls to be delivered
to his priest son, his behalf. I think that is the most foot
thing that God did, is that coveting thy neighbours ass. I don't know
which part of them he wanted to cover so I could see you see the
big problem here is that you know, God covered up in a fair thou
shout not commit adultery. God, you know, sending all these vergins that
thou shalt not covert thy neighbor's ass. You know, there's two of the
ten moments that have been broken. It's as twenty percent off the bat that
have just been broken. Thou shalt not commit murder. God committed to murder
all the way through. That's thirty percent. So this week, Richard's just
going to sit back and let Foebe host the show. I am very excited
to see what our audience come up next week. Put your answers down below
in the comments and not in the side chat, and we will read your
answers out next week. Of course, we do not do. It's not
just the Richard and Phoebe show. It's not just about us. It's we
have a great team behind us who get all of this going and do all
the hard work, from everybody from the show note writers to the time stampers,
to the fan group volunteers right up to the producers and everybody else who's
involved. Some of those people are right here now. So let's go to
the crew camp and look at those lovely, lovely people who make this show
happen. Look at that lovely lot. God, there's some of my favorite
people are in there, not Greg, but the rest of them. Some
of my favorite people are in there. And you know they are the ones
that make this all happen. They're the ones who, you know, give
us all this technology, all this know how to be able to allow us
to talk to you when you're calling in. So they are the ones that
should get the massive, massive thank you. But also, while we're on
the subject, if you want to thank my guest, Phoebe Rose nonprofit Extraordinary,
please do so in the side chat or in the comments. Sure your
love for Phoebe. This is inadvertently an all British episode, but you know
we've not planned it to be that way. British news floating around them there
is, and I'm sure that we'll come out during the show. If you
don't keep side tracking me about the crew com I would say this about the
crew can It is weird to be on this side a bit. Normally I'm
on the other side of it because I'm one of those fancy call screening people.
So yeah, big love to my call screening colleagues out there. Yes,
of course, big love to everybody who is involved in the production of
the show. I wrote that called up, and I'm going to get to
calls just second, but I wrote that called open because you know, one
of people regular views will probably know. One of my pet hates is people
just making comments in the comments section and just writing stuff and preaching it us
and things like that. And I you know, callers, if you are
one of those people who wants to tell us Jesus loves you, or we're
going to hell or the end is coming, give us a call and give
us an actual argument, because I wasn't. I wasn't just like blowing out
hair when I said that preaching doesn't convince us. It really really is the
least likely thing to convince me that God exists. And if you have good
evidence, if you have a compelling argument, I would have no choice.
This show has more than ninety thousand subscribers. You would have a good chance
of converting all of them if you came up with a good argument or compelling
evidence, and that's all you need to do, but is not the way
to do it. But aside from that, I've been having lots of conversations
lately and I had a you know, the last time I was on the
show, we talked about Taoism a little bit. We had a call about
Taoism. And I have been having so many calls about fluffy conversations about fluffy
new age spiritualist nonsense lately. And let me tell you, these people get
their feathers ruffled far more than the most ruffled feathered Christians do. So if
you're one of those people who thinks that there's some merit to this fluffy nonsense,
perennial philosophy and all of that jazz, give us a call because we
want to talk to you as well. Having said that, we do have
a call on the line and going to pick them up. Now, this
is Cadence from Florida, who is asking does religion pollute politics? Hellokaidence,
how are you hello? Okay? How are you very very well? Soday
Best? I am the Sunday Best. Religion politics. I'm going to give
you, let you make your ask you a question, and I'm going to
let Phoebe take it because this is an area of expertise. So it's nonprofits
to the tea. This is let's let's let's not promote or disparage any particular
parties or political figures in this let's keep it nice and neutral. But go
ahead and ask you a question, right, Yeah, So I just wanted
to. I've just been noticing, you know, my step down and watches
the news. Uh, and I've just been paying more attention to what's going
on with the conflict with Israel and Palestign. And you know in this,
in this instance, I don't take any sides because it's both. It's both
sad that instant keep are dying on both sides. And that's when I started
kind of watching a little bit more of the news that my step dad does,
which is false news, but it doesn't matter. But and I just
noticed that, like you know, I know, you say, don't call
it one part party, so I'm not, but I'm sure you can figure
out that one side seems to really justify their policies and actions because of what
they believe. And so I was wondering, Uh, do you guys think
and that that religion makes politics even worse or do you think it's what makes
politics so horrible? Because you know, I feel like, you know,
a lot of Americans are on team Israel, which again I'm not on either
team, and I feel like it's very kind of going on blind faith because
you know, they believe it's the Holy Land. And but yeah, so
what do you guys think about politics? Religion is religion politics or politics is
bad by itself. Now, there's a lot to unpack there, and the
issues going on in the Middle East have a lot of resonance with a lot
of individuals around the world. A lot of my family members are quite animated
on this, a lot of my friends are quite animated on this. I
am an atheist, but I am also ethnically Jewish, so that's a very
interesting perspective that I end up with from a lot of individuals on this.
But then on the other side, I have a lot of individuals who I
know who are on the other side of that. And I think the issue
in the Middle here is that if we wind the clock back to two thousand
and one and September the eleventh, and we see the fallout of the politics
and the religion that occurred there. So a lot of the politics ended up
fueling a lot of anti Islam and a lot of anti Arabic sentiment, which
was unjustified. And I think that that element of the politics is quite polluting
because we're seeing a lot of anti Muslim sentiment, a lot of anti Semitic
sentiment, a lot of anti Jewish sentiment, a lot of anti Palestinian sentiment,
which is also quite polluting as well as a result of this. And
it's exemplified by what happened in I think it was Vermont where some Palestinian students
were attacked, and that's quite polluting in and of itself. But we have
also seen a rise in anti Semitic hate crimes as a result, and that
is very polluting. And I think that any time you get religion involved,
people are going to bring their own personal politics into things. And when I
say personal politicis I don't mean parties and politics with the cathopy. I mean
politics with a small pe here, and this will be things like what you
hold to be your values and how that goes forward, and how you view
yourself and your lens of viewing yourself. So after nine to eleven, a
lot of Americans were deeply hurt by what happened and they wanted an outlet to
it, and it was a very toxic outlet that led to a lot of
anti Islam and a lot of anti Semitic conspiracy theories coming forwards, and a
lot of fairly strange things that are being said, Like I remember when they
were planning of building and Islamic Cultural center in Manhattan and they called it the
nine to eleven Mosque, which was, quite frankly, some of the strangest
terminology I've ever heard used in relation to this. And when you do get
things that are very political, that are tragedies, you have a tendency to
polarize people and things are saying very black and very white, and that in
and of itself is the polluting element, because the shades of gray will always
exist, and we will all be responsible for it. No matter how great
a human being you are, we will all be responsible. When there is
something that affects us deeply that is a tragedy, we will begin to move
towards those black and white extremes. And we have an issue where your own
personal politics and your own religion and or your perception of the religion of others
will be affecting how you respond, and that can be very polluting in either
a sympathetic way or an antagonistic way, depending on how you yourself respond to
it. So, for example, people could be very sympathetic to the individuals
who were responsible for certain acts of terrorism. And even using the word act
of terrorism is in and of itself in the eye of the person saying it,
because the term terrorism has many different meanings as you go around different people,
because what is one man's freedom fighter, it is another man's terrorist.
As they say, I mean, you just have to look at some of
the terminology that was used regarding Nelson Mandela. To some people, he is
a terrorist to some people, and to a vast majority of people, he
is a person who was fighting for the freedom of having from apartheid. But
it all depends on your perspective. And when you go to the extremes,
that's the pollution. And you must never allow yourself to go to those extremes
because when you hit those extremes, you can find it very difficult to see
what the reasonable questioning answers are. In the middle, why is this happening?
What is the solution to this? Not you did this, I'm going
to get back at you, and I was going to ask too, because
I'm very middle with everything. I'm very in the middle with politics. So
I think they think both sides at some points. But why do you think
it's so difficult for some people to see the middle ground you know of situations.
Do you think that has to do with like media, you know,
extreme media? What's your take on that opinion? It's personally insecurity from the
person. The person is insecure to a point where they aren't confident in their
own convictions. So they will generally take a position that sits where they feel
most comfortable and if they can avoid being the center of attention because they are
insecure about what that will do to them, they may follow other individuals and
we see that in all walks of life. So you take a classroom full
of students, the most secure person in the room is the one that's going
to put their hand up and say, I think the answer is this.
Insecure people in that classroom aren't going to go, oh yes, yes,
yes, the answer is this, because it's where they're not comfortable doing it,
right, I see, okay, yeah, I just you know,
I've been an atheist for about two years maybe well truly, I don't think
I ever believe I think it was just because I was brought up. I
just said I was a Christian, but I've just I've noticed a lot about
the world, you know that, like you said, it's not it's not
so black and white as some people might think. And I also called a
few weeks ago, I think I was talking with you and Jimmy about,
you know, my family. Some of my family kind of like telling me
that I'm lost because I don't believe in God and stuff. And I was
just also curious, you know, I get very this is a little simon.
I make it quick, you know, when I've been very outspoken about
my etheism because even like online on Facebook, not every day, but uh,
and they seem to get very upset. They didn't care about what I
believed in until it was something they didn't believe in. And I'm just wondering
should I be so vocal about it or should I just let them believe what
they wanted, because it's very upset comfortable, because I think I think that
that all depends on how comfortable you are doing it. If if you're very
comfortable having these conversations, then continue to have them. If if you're not
comfortable, or if it's going to put you in a difficult spot, if
you're like really financially reliant on anyone. Then there's no harm in not having
these conversations, especially with those curs around you. It doesn't stop you interacting
with people kind of outside your immediate friends and families or online. But certainly
it all for me. It's all about how comfortable you are doing it.
You know, being outspoken, being an activist, all these things is not
for everyone. And you know, yeah, it comes with having or developing
a little bit of a thick skin along the lines of it. You know,
people like me and Phoebe have been doing this for a long long time.
And you know, if you're only just starting to have these conversations,
you might not be in a position where you feel comfortable talking to everybody and
you know, going through the nitty gritty with everybody on all these different subjects,
and there's no harm in not doing it. This this you know,
self care is the most important thing, and that you've been comfortable with yourself
and you know, I would say do it to the extent that you are
comfortable doing it. I don't know if Phoebe has anything to add on that.
What I would say is what Richard said at beginning, preaching is the
least effective way to convince anybody or to have a conversation on the merits of
what you're talking about. So if you're having a conversation with them, there's
a genuine dialogue. In my opinion, that's wonderful. If you are going
in there and saying Christianity is bunk and you know Judaism is you know hocum,
and Islam is trash, you're not going to get anywhere. Equally,
if you go atheism is the greatest, Atheism is the only way forward.
You are an idiot and you shouldn't be doing this, that, and the
other. You're not going to get anywhere with them because people are going to
put their defenses up and they're going to go off and they're going to tell
you where the fund doesn't shine. So if you are having conversations with somebody,
have a conversation with them as a friend, as a family member.
Don't have a conversation with them as someone who's going in there to try to
change their mind. Have a conversation with them where you're going to try to
extract what they actually believe. I have found the conversations that I have that
at the most productive, where you talk and you disagree, because that disagreement
that you have shows the other person that you hold them to be an equal
in the conversation. And nobody likes to be seen as anything other than an
equal in a conversation because then you feel in fantalized and you feel like you're
being treated like a child, and you're more likely to someone if you are
having a dialogue that is on the same level. Yeah here, Like my
grandduy last night texted me and was like, you need to start putting that
stupid crap on Facebook about atheism, and you know, I stood my ground,
and but I was really polite and see my trained had you know.
But I'm pretty comfortable with having these conversations. Sometimes I do get a little
heated with them. So uh, like, I think it's it's better to
talk about it in person, you know, than over online, because I
think when you talk in pro with anybody about anything, there's kind of that
mutual respect already, as opposed to online where it's like you can say whatever
you want, you know, and get away with it. So there's also
the context. A lot of context is missed when you're talking, especially on
formats like Facebook where it's a text based format. You can you can be
saying something perfectly reasonable and it can come across as really aggressive, and it's
it's it can be really difficult to have a nuanced conversation using nonverbal formats,
so or even even non visual formats where you're not picking up on people's body
language. So it's worth bearing that in mind when you're having these conversations well
as well. That's not to say don't have just non visual textual conversations,
because you can have them, but it's worth being aware the nuances often missed
while you're having them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very true.
I mean, you know, communication is more than just words of spody,
language and whatnot. I know, you guys, other Collers. I just
want to thank you guys. I started watching your show not too long ago.
Well first it was the atheist experience, but anyhow, I just want
to thank you guys for you know, speaking for well maybe not all of
us, but most of us, and just thank you and keep doing what
you guys are doing. No, thank you, OKAYD And so we really
appreciate your call. Do call back again, and you know, and keep
us updated in these conversations that you're having. With your families. I think
calls like that are really important. There's something that the really important for me,
who's never been a religious person, who's never had a really just family
as such, to understand how some of these people I'm talking to a lot
of the theists, if they're going to go through deconstruction. It's important for
me to listen to people who were going through or have come through that deconstruction
to understand where, you know, where they might end up, because it
helps me to kind of frame the conversations in such a way to understand that
these people might be coming out of things and might be communicating with people in
their own families and the friend circles themselves. One day, Phoebe, you
were religious at one point, so how do you relate to that. It's
one of those things where you realize that if you are secure enough in yourself,
you are secure enough to grow. And looking back on it, I
was having issues with personal sense of self and place in the world. And
it's always interesting to see where people go with it because some people when they
started deconstructing, the strength their faith gets strengthened as opposed to it being weakened,
and it all depends upon the person themselves. For me personally, it
was a series of events in my life that shocked me and I begetting to
reevaluate. But don't sit there in silence, because it can have serious effect
on your physical and mental health. Tried to understand and explain things, and
what I found was the most challenging thing was I found out who truly was
a friend of mine and who truly was just a religious accouterment. Yeah,
it's like say, something I've never experienced, and I love hearing other people's
stories on it. We have if you want to get the word out about
the show. We have flyers available at tiny dot c c slash ata flyers.
They are principal principle calling flyers. You can post these with permission to
community by bulletin boards so people know they should call our show and defend their
faith. If you do post any flyers, make sure to snap a picture
of the of it in place or you're with it in fact, if you
don't mind having your photo shown, and send it to TV at Atheist Hyphencommunists
dot org and we may feature your photo in an upcoming show. And you
can follow talk Heathen on TikTok Talk Heathen and join us for our pre show
lives on the ACA TIC Show TikTok Atheist Community of Austin, and you can
like the video and subscribe to the channel and able notifications and comment below on
your favorite caller. As every week, I read through every comment that is
posted, so just be aware that, regardless of whether I'm hosting or not,
my bad eyes will be in the background at all times. We have
another caller going to take Terry, who is a theist from Canada and who
wants to whose call is about prophecy being a proof of God. Terry?
How are you hi, Terry? Yeah, I heard. I heard the
beginning of the show, and you said you don't want no preaching, you
want an argument. And if there's an argument, you have ninety thousand people
that could be converted. So VEWSTI the chef is here to serve you something
very delicious. So are you willing? Are you ready for an argument?
Well? Good, yes, go on. Then there's better be a court
on blood argument. I am expecting mischion ie star argument here. Yeah,
yea. I'm gonna give you an argument for sure. So this is a
logistic argument. A modus ponent. So if Jesus can demonstrate universal sovereignty,
that will make them guys promise too. Jesus did demonstrate universal sovereignty in virtue
of the fact that he predicted the universal adoption of the seven day week as
the evidence of his authority for all nations. Conclusion, all nations keep a
seven day week, going against the religious and cultural practices. Therefore Jesus is
God. So can we come to the chef terran sl chef whatever you want
to call yourself or whatever you calling yourself these days? Can we cut to
the chase and go to the actual verse wherein Jesus made to this prediction.
Yeah, yeah, we could definitely do that. I never thought you would
ask that question. So we can go to Isaiah sixty six, verse twenty
three. That's one of many Isaiah sixty six pointy three. It says from
new moon and from new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to establish
will all flesh come to worship me. So I'm arguing for the the sabage
Sabbath, which is intrinsically linked to a seven day week. So for this
part of the prophecy to be fulfilled, it requires a seven day week,
and all nations during that time did not keep a seventy week except for Israel.
So for this frock fulfilled okay, you have, I don't worship God
the seven day week universe. I don't worship God. I don't worship God.
I don't worship God. So we have falsified that verse. What's your
next argument, Terry? Terry question? Are you aware of Terry? Before
we carry off? Are you aware of the Soviet Union? Terry? Yeah,
I did it in the nineteen thirty Yeah, there you are you aware
of the Soviet Union? Yes, they had a five day week and they
adopted it in the seventh and nineteen thirty. Yes, and now you're where
they also had a six day week? I'm sorry? Are you also where
they had a six day week? They had a five day week, and
then they went to a six day week. What's the point? But the
point I'm getting it here is do you know why they abolished the five and
six day week and went to a seven day week? Do you know why
they abolished it? How about you tell me they abolished it because factory maintenance,
it was convenient to have one day set aside a week to do factory
maintenance as opposed to having rolling five and six day weeks where people got different
days off. So it had nothing to do with any form of religiosity.
And so my argument is, so you're basically arguing the same thing that that
guy said. I'm gonna address that. My argument is not predicated on your
religious worship. My argument is God to be God without your worship. Even
your argument was predicated shut up and let me speak, or I will get
rid of you faster than something that gets rid of something very very fast,
because I can't think of anything at the moment. But your arguments was one
of prophecy. The verse you gave me to substantiate that was from a new
one moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, All mankind will
come and bow down before me, says the Lord. I do not bow
down to God. I have falsified your arguments. You, sir, are
wrong. Have you got another argument? Can I explain to you why that's
so ridiculous of your part, because you know, because I have this demonstrated
absolutely that you are wrong. Have you got another argument or not? Is
that it? Or you're just relying on that that's just been falsified, really,
really easily. Yeah, we are having a conversation. I falsified your
argument. I'm asking you if you have another one. Your response should be
yes, I have another argument. I have another line of prophecy which demonstrates
God or no, I do not. That's how a conversation works, do
you have so? Okay, So, basically what you're saying, I should
accept your ridiculous objection. It's not a ridiculous objection. You gave me the
versa. You could have chose any verse in the entire Bible. You're saying
that's reship. Why are you saying's front of worship? Because you also brought
up universal sovereignty, and to bring up universal sovereignty implies a level of universality,
and to have universality would require Richard to do exactly what the verse says.
And without Richard doing exactly what the verse says, there's no universality because
Richard isn't following that verse. So therefore there's no universality of following that.
So that is the base reason as to why that is a complete load of
horsemanure. As you brought up universality in the first place, and for it
to be at you would have to have universality. So Richard would have to
bow down before God. Oh yeah, universality. And in virtue of you
adopted a seventy week argument on your practice of keeping a seventy week not your
worship you bought up. You brought up up. Your lation was that there
is bowing down and worship before God. You brought up a universal truth by
the evidence and virtual requirement. For that to be true, you have to
have universal compliance with whatever evidence you have. Richard does not universally comply with
it. Therefore, you do not have universal compliance. I do not universally
comply with it. You do not universal compliance. One thing says you have
universal seven day weeks does not mean that what you bought as your evidence has
any meaning whatsoever. Because the fallacy and the logical loophole that I'm signing the
America's Cup through right now is being demonstrated as being wider than my ego,
which is huge. Let me tell you, Okay, you need you need
a tangilizer or something so much, Terry, I've muted you just for the
moment. I'll get you back on in a second. I'm going to I'm
just going to talk without you having the ability to talk about the verse you
presented, which says from I'm using the new International version, by the way,
from one new new moon to another, and from one sabbag to another,
which is the seven day week you're referring to. Now this is a
prophecy part, not the seven day week part. That this is a prophecy
part. All mankind will come and bow down before me, says the lord
that has been falsified. You have been shown to be wrong. Would you
like to respond to that particular point and nothing else? You are unmuted?
Yes, so I could I could address how ridiculous your claim was. First
of all, it starts off it shall be. The verse starts off with
it shall be the prophet. That's what That's what prophecies do, sir.
They start off with it shall be. You got caught again, You got
You're ridiculous. You know this is what I mean, Right, Mark?
I have muted you again, and I'm going to continue in muting you until
you addressed the specific point that I ask you about. The verse which you
claim is a prophecy is all mine hand will come and that bow down before
me, That has not happened. That prophecy has not been fulfilled, so
that has not demonstrated the existence is God your your call. Screening notes say
prophecy is proof of God past tense. It has been demonstrated, so that
has not being demonstrated. Would you like to give you one more chance to
respond to that particular point that I have raised in that verse that all mankind
will come down and bow down before me? Would you like to address that
point? Sir? I am unmuting you now, all right, so I'll
drive one more time and then hopefully you don't panic this damage and show you
a copype of credibility. So number one, I made it clear the whole
versus the prophecy. Number one and number two as I relaced to your specific
claim where it says for all flogs will come to worship me, I'm arguing
the fact that everybody keeps us seven day week. First, if I say
two for six, then I know the patterns, right. I don't care
about the first part because that's irrelevant the part I'm the part I'm challenging,
sir, shut up. The part I am challenging is the second part,
which states mankind will come down that and bow down before me. Can you
address that part. I'm not interested in the first part. It is irrelevant.
Can you address this second part of that verse? Am I on?
Okay? So yeah, as it relates to the second part, which is
talking about those who will be saved. If you go to Isaiah sixty sixth,
verse nineteen is referring to only those who will be saved. But before
that, a seventy week had to be universally adopted. That's what my don't
give a shit about the second day weeks. That's not the part of the
verse I'm challenging. If you don't understand that simple concept, thank you,
goodbye. This is not actually accurate because I'm pretty certain that if I was
to go to some of the wealthiest people in the United Kingdom, they would
turn around and ask you, what is a weekend? What is a week?
What is a job? And I'm pretty certain if I was to go
to some of the native tribes in Amazonia, they wouldn't even keep a calendar,
let alone a seven day week. So the claim of universality of a
seven day week is absolutely one hundred percent nonsense because there is no way of
knowing whether the tribes on the Anderman Islands keep a seven day week because those
tribes don't allow outsiders in and attack outsiders to stop them from coming in.
So there's no way of knowing that level of universality. And also it refers
to all flesh will bow down. I wasn't aware the budgery guards and giraffes
and fish were bowing down. I want to just make something very very clear
for the people who were or maybe first time listeners, because I don't want
them to think that that's normally how we speak to the people call into the
show. This show is about friendly conversations and mutual exploration. That previous caller
has called several times before, had his arguments thoroughly debunked several times before,
and keeps shooting dishonest tactics to try and get back onto the show, using
pseudonyms and other guysers to pretend he's not who he is and that the argument
he is making is not the same old trash which has been debunked men many
times already. So you know, for new religious callers at two points.
First of all, we will not be talking to you like we talk to
him, unless you act like him and be blatantly dishonest. And secondly,
if that's the best that Christianity has to offer, then Christianity is in dire,
dire, dire straits. If you think you can do better than that,
give us a call, because if you don't call us, if you
don't call us, he is the representation of Christianity that you are leaving us
with. And more, if you believe it is in dire straits and you
remember of the band Dire Straits, please call you. We will accept calls
from the members of the band Dire Straits for reasons. Yes, that's told
you. Me and Phie we were going to have fun during this show.
Number no matter what everybody else saught right, we are going to jump to
the top five patrons. I'm going to, as is tradition on the show,
get the guest to read them out. Sophie, we take it away.
So in the order that I have been given them, the top five
patrons are Dinglebree Jackson, Oops A Singularity, Darkwarf Games, Our Vagine,
and Calvert hell Vetti. Those are our top five patrons. But we do
have to have vulnerable mention around these parts. And that is our honorable mention
goes to Chris. Yeah, thank you to all of you. We really
do appreciate the patrons. This cannot be mentioned enough, and I don't think
it is mentioned enough that we you know, we really really do rely on
your patronage. I put a thank you message in the Patron Patron patre on
patron thing you can support us. That's the one and the way you'll get
your exclusive messages and exclusive content for being a patron, and you know,
because I really really do appreciate and we've got some great things planned for the
patrons in the future. And I myself, by the way, I'm a
patron and have been since before I was even a host of this show,
a long, long, many years ago. In fact, I've been a
patron of this show for a long time. So you know it's not bad.
We're not just asking you to throw money at us. You know,
you know, I support the show. I love this show, and I've
supported this show for a long time, and I genuinely appreciate those of you
who do as well. Out there. We have, of course super chats
which you can send us and we will read if they are appropriate to read,
and we have one from Matt No, it's not from Matt. Matt
who's posted it in our chats and I've read it, so thank you Matt
for posting it in our chat for my attention. Is in like monkey at
typewriter who has sent seo dollars and says has undeniable truths, uses multiple aliases.
Yes, absolutely spot on FEBA. Would you like to choose the next
call? I think that we should take Luke from Florida. Okay, Luke
from Florida, who wants to talk about humans are a connected species and have
the same brain. Luke, explain to us what you mean. Well,
I believe you know, like any other species, humans you know, have
the same brain and I'll be reproduced have the same thing. And I believe
that humans have a lot of potential. You know, we work together to
your creat a perfect world, and you don't always exist in that perfect world.
That makes sense. I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what your what
you're referred to here, because what do you mean by the same education,
Because that can't be true because everybody will have a different experience in the world,
and as experiences form part of your education. No, no, what
I'm referring to is everybody of the same education and understood reality the same way,
then everybody could work together to create a perfect girl. You know,
there wouldn't be like belief systems in religion and different things like that. If
everybody understood science and everybody understood how to build and develop and work together,
if we could create a perfect world about harm or negativity. You know,
like you are you referring to a utopian creation here, I guess you could
say that. I mean more of what I'm referring to is just humans.
You know, see eye eye with each other. You know, everybody understanding
the science that we're all the same, you know, because we do all
the same brain, we all have that same organ and everybody having the ability
to work together to create a perfect world. And what I believe to be
achieved through that is is in a sense immortality. What do you mean by
have the same brain? I mean I had the same type of eyes as
you, but I probably have a different prescription on my glasses to you.
So are my eyes therefore the same as yours? No? Well, I
mean when I say the same brain, I mean we have the same part,
you know what I mean? And so yeah, and so what about
individuals who are non neurotypical. Do they have the same brains as people who
are neurotypical. Well, what do you mean by that? Elaborate a little
more so, neurodivergency. Are you aware of the concept of neurodivergency? No,
what does that mean? So? Neurodivergency is individuals who do not have
what is classified as standard thinking patterns, so dyscalculator, dyslexia, adhd,
autism, et cetera. People who see the world in a different way to
people who are not diagnosed with any of those kinds of conditions. Well,
I studied though a lie, and what it comes down to is green in
white matter in the brain, and those are the only differences, or in
chemicals too, and everybody in those individuals, I mean, they have They
have the ability to increase the things. They can increase very matter, they
can increase white matter, and they can increase chemicals by physical exercise or study.
More so, they have the ability to be balanced. But I'm not
sure how we get to the creation of a perfect world if we don't all
actually have the same base life. Well, explain that allt more so,
the same baseline that you've just said we all have the same brain. I
don't actually believe we will have quote the same brain, because my brain will
be formed differently to Richard's brain and your brain in the same way that my
muscles formed differently to use same bolts. Muscles. Your same bold, genetically
speaking, has better muscles for power and sprint speed than I will ever will
ever have. So the genetics that we have mean that we're not actually all
the same, and we can't be all the same because otherwise we would never
have evolution, and we would never move forwards, and we would never have
any way of diversifying our species, and we would have genetic rot and we
would end up going extinct. No, I think that's that's a pretty far
reach. What I mean by the same brain is that, yeah, everybody
has the same part. That way, it can change one persons, But
I mean people are different beliefs, and obviously what do you mean by the
same parts. I mean, if you look at brain anatomy, you can
clearly see all the parts in the human brain, and everybody has all the
parts right and so, but that's not a universal truth because evolution has allowed
us to move from having parts that weren't there to parts that are there,
to having parts that are now redundant, that are no longer used, that
may be more pronounced in other people. So as evolution moves through, these
parts will change develop and either add or subtract based on the evolutionary criteria and
the evolutionary trajectory that we're ending up with. Well, I don't think there's
an evidence for that. I just think that everybody has the same parts in
every part of the ka. Do you believe in the theory of evolution?
Yeah, of course, I mean that's what this is about. I mean,
you know, I'm just trying to get to fundamentals here. What is
your opinion and your understand ending of the theory of evolution? I mean I
do understand the human species, and I understand species. I mean when we
reprocreate. Please answer my question, what is evolution as far as you are
understanding it. I mean, it's just how life got here. I mean,
that's about all anybody knows. But but we do know the brain,
we could do you know, we do know the brain, and we do
know the part in the brain and everybody has Hang on a minute, do
you believe do you believe in the theory of evolution that we evolved from water
based creatures that became land based creatures that then became bipedal creatures and soul.
Do you agree with that line, Yeah, yeah, of course. But
so if we were to go hang on, So if we were to go
backwards, now we go back to fish, and you compare the brain of
a fish and the brain of a human, would you say that they are
the same brain because theoretically the brain of the fish evolved into the brain of
the human over millions of years. No, not at all. Obviously humans
have the same brain and fish have different brains, just like rabbits have the
same hang on, So undercutting your own argument here, So they give me
a second. What I'm referring to is every human being has the same brain.
If you're a human, you have the same in you know what I
mean, That's what I know. There's you know, obviously evolution and how
they've got to this point. But every human being, you know, has
the same brain. Every human being has the same part. You know that.
That's what I'm referring to. But this is this is this is you're
undercutting your own argument here, because if you believe that evolution is something which
is occurring, and you and you allow for mutation to occur, you and
you allow for things to change over time. By default, you can't have
the human beings being fact similes of each other. It can't have it.
It can't be true if you also hold that evolution is a theory that you
accept and is credible. I don't think that at all. I think evidence
shows that humans do have the same brain. I mean, you can look
it up online and clearly you're missing You're missing the fundamental point here. Now,
do you agree that evolutionary mutation can and does occur, But that has
nothing to do with what I'm saying now. But you're saying that humans are
facsimiles humans or what fact simile the same over and over and over and over
and over again, Like when you send a fact you will get an identical
copy out the other side. Yeah, well, I mean as far as
the brain goes, I mean, the humans shared the same word. Do
you keep saying as far as the brain goes? As if that sub assertion
that I'm just supposed to accept as being true. No, no, no,
no, no, it's not an assertion you have to accept. I
mean you can clearly see brain anatomy by saying By saying you can clearly see
is another assertion that you're telling me to accept. I'm providing you with theoretical
challenges to that based on evolution. That you keep on saying this and this
and this is. You're just saying it is. You're not, Actually,
I do mean any evidence to say it is, because well, let me
rewind a little bit. We know the human brain. We know every human
has the same brain with the same part, stop and everything. We don't
know every human has the same brain with the same parts. We know that
the majority of humans have the majority of the same parts. We don't know
about genetic mutations in individuals that will enhance the brain or may cause errors in
the brain. That's how genetic mutations work. Changes over a long period of
time that are desirable are kept, and changes over a long period of time
that are undesirable are lost. So if you were to look at a human
from a million years ago and compared to a human today, the brain would
not be the same. Okay, but now where we're at now, every
human does have the same I refuse to accept that every human has an identical
brain. But they do. And I mean, but you just say,
can I just let me just jump in because I you know this. Phoebe
touched on it a little while ago about neurodiversity and people with things like autism.
My son has autism. I've got friends who've got autism, and their
brains do not operate in the same way that my brain operates in They see
the world in a different way, they address the world in a different way,
they react to the world in a different way. And if your argument,
just to kind of condense it is that if everyone got the same education,
because we've got the same brain, we'd be able to create a perfect
world. Other than being a very much a kind of a utopia kind of
argument, it wouldn't. I don't think you're kind of grasping what Phoebe's saying
to you, and that is that people don't just simply take the stuff in,
the information in in the same way. People react to things very very
differently in neurodiversity. People who have conditions like autism, they do what's called
masking. They mask normal behavior, normal social behavior, mainstream social behavior,
and then they go home and then they kind of they just explode. The
brains can just explode in the they have. It's their way of reacting to
the fact that they've been masking, they've been pretending all day while they've been
out doing whatever they've been doing in these social circumstances, to act like the
normal person, the everyday kind of normal. And I'm doing that in air
quotes for those who are listening, because I'm not suggesting there is a normal
as such, but the kind of accepted societal behavior. And they go home
and they because they've been masking, they react very very differently, and it
can be very very difficult for them to have to do this masking. And
people just simply don't respond the same way. Our brains are not all the
same chemically, and if we had a level playing field with exactly the same
education, with exactly the same belief systems, people would still respond differently.
And I think that's the point that you're kind of missing in this. It's
a nice idea from a kind of perfect world scenario thing, but it's just
it wouldn't happen. It couldn't happen because that's not how we operate as human
beings. Our brains are set up, even even normal again, air quotes
brains are set up to fail. That's what evolution has done. We make
mistakes. We are pattern recognition with our brains are set up for pattern recognition,
and that means, in Layman's terms, they are set up to make
mistakes when we're trying to assess things. So we cannot. It's not a
case that we people don't want to, it's that we cannot process things in
this kind of idealized way you're putting forward. Sure, sure, so let
me explain it from my perspective. Okay, So the anatomy of the brain
means that everybody has the same part. Now, chemically, people can balance
out their chemicals through physical exercise, do eating healthy. I mean that's a
proven fact. Okay, And so you can hang on a minute, hang
on a proven fact. You keep on making these assertions. A proven fact,
it is the same. I've got a question. I've I've got a
question here for you. Do you believe that my brain and your brain are
the same? Don't believe what that my brain and your brain are the same.
I believe that we have the same parts. So yeah, what did
it shock you to know that I am a high functioning autistic woman. Oh?
Yes, I believe that. Yeah, we do have the same brain.
I have the same part. But does it shock you that I'm a
high functioning autistic woman. I don't know about high functioning artistic woman. I
know they have the same brain in the same part too. Do they did
physical act? But you're you're missing what I'm asking here. That's proven fact.
Stop saying that's proven fact because it's not. You keep on making that
assertion, And the more you keep making that assertion, the less rope I'm
going to give you to play with. Please stop making baseless assertions that this
is proven fact. This is the way it is. Stop doing that.
That is very bad faith. And it assumes that you and I know they
have the same outcome here. Please, do you find it surprising that I
am a high functioning autistic woman. Let me talk. It is a proven
fact that was physical Actually, stop stop on, just stop you there.
Do not say it is a proven fact. Do not say it just is.
Do not say things that are assertions without actual evidence. Do not come
on here and expect us to just believe what you say just because you say
it. If you can't do that, I will end this call. You
have one last chance if you turn around and say it is, because it
is, I'm ending the call. Go sure, wait wait wait, I
want to say one thing because you kind of cut me off a little bit.
Are you still there? Yeah? No, one will let end your
talk. Go on. I'm sorry. Just let me explain my part real
quick. Okay, okay, but you cannot. If you cannot explain it
without using to explain it, assertions that it is true because you're saying it
is, I'm going to end the call. Explain it. No, no,
no. So I looked it up on peer reviewed articles and it says
physical exercise can increase chemicals, physical exercise can increase grain white matter. Those
are the only differences in the human brain. And it could be and Lucas
left us right. Look, when you're asked not to do something several times,
especially by a guest on this show is not even the regular host.
One of the guests who've come on has been invited on to speak. And
if they ask you several times not to do something and you just repeat the
same thing, you're not going to be stayed around to repeat it. Four,
fifth, sixth, seventh, how many times physical exercise? You know?
I'm not autistic. Phoebe has stated that she is our high functioning autistic.
What the suggestion that you're making implies that what you're saying is with physical
exercise, Phoebe's autism will go away, which is nonsense. Richard will develop
the same autism as me if I don't exercise. Yeah, yeah, that
wants to become autistic. Eat a burger and s in your chair. To
become autistic, get on a treadmillan do it right away. You know it's
you don't appear to be listening, So please go back listen to the call
again and really try and digest what we were saying. We have a couple
of more super chats. We have Paulo Been who says who sends five euros
and says, Hi, Richard, Hi, Paulo Been. Please tell me
what your accents is called? I know really relevant to the show. I'm
going to throw this over to Phoebix so Phoenix can tell you what's my accents
is called. I'd just say bloody Northern. That will do bloody Northern.
So this is the thing. We have this singing in Britain where you or
in England where you are from the north, or from the South, and
that's it. That's the only demarcation line we have. And I'm a proud
Sotherner and you will never get me talking like a bloody Northerner. I'm from
the North. We we drink cups of gravy, and he buy sandwiches and
take us whipp it to walk, and we're never seen outside. We are
as flat caps. No we're not. So that's that's a demarcation line.
So what you're talking about, it's bloody northern. Phoebe is a Southerner and
my accent is bloody northern. Thank you for being very much appreciate that.
Quantum answer. Who has been a member for two months hundred hundred exactly that?
How does that follow? Who says that because Jesus made prophecy, he
is God? Why should that be the case? Jesus was supposed to fulfill
prophecies, to be Messiah, not make them. How is that first premise
substantiated? It wasn't, is the short answer to that. I believe we
might have another super chat, which I think I caught, but I can't
see it in the chat, and if I hallucinated it, No, we
do have one which I I didn't realize I had II because AI has this
wonderful thing of hallucinating things. So if you're hallucinating them, are you really
or are you just artificial intelligence? Richard hallucinating things? I am artificial intelligence,
Richard, I don't know. That's what artificial intelligence sounds like. Miranda
Rensburger sends five dollars us saying having different brains is a good thing. Neurodivergent
people see things in different ways and the rest of us can learn from them.
Amen. So that's my lass. I definitely agree with you there.
That's a that's a great one. Did a deal. Let's have a look.
And Paul Obein has sent another five for yours thank you, saying thanks
for the in for smiley face, lots of love for you and from German
and femies not from Germanytscher, no, thank you. We appreciate the super
chat I'm going to bring. I can't speak German. I have no idea
what she said here is four and is five. And I accidentally knocked a
knocked a euro off when I accidentally said thank you for your thank you for
the four years, when I should have said thank you for the fives.
Thank you for I am going to bring in. Oh, there was a
call I wanted to take about the universe beginning. If that caller is still
listening, please do call back, because I really I was really excited about
that call. In the meantime, I'm going to take reluctantly Miguel who called
a couple of weeks ago, and I'm going to be quite forth right with
them. So, Miguel, you have said you've discovered proof of God and
you want to read your poem about it. You're not reading your poem about
it. But I think last time the hosts I don't remember we were talking
to was Jimmy and someone else maybe Ben but maybe. But please, you
know, let's let's have a conversation and let's address the parts where because you
can make lots of straw men in the last conversation you had, Let's address
those and Miguel steal that's it. Would you like to present your proof of
God? Miguel, yes, but we have to go step by a step,
you know, because if we don't go step by a step, we
don't go anywhere. You know, because the last time, for example,
I the host didn't access you know that reality is eternal. If okay,
like so when I stop you there, stop there, You're you're wanting to
go step by step, I'm more than happy to do that. Reality is
eternal. Yes, did you listen to the last call? Well, what's
did you listen to the substance of the last call? No? No,
no, not really. What I will say this now to you, and
I'll say this at the beginning to you, Please do not make assertion that
you expect us to just believe. The assertion that reality is eternal is wording
that you're giving to us, that you're expecting us to just believe. Please
don't use expectations on us that what you're saying is the case. Please don't
do that. Okay, from the beginning lies to process. From the beginning,
that's something that's something that's a reality to exist. Now, that's something
that does something exists. Now, your reality exists? Yes or no?
Yes, reality exists. As far as I'm concerned, reality exists. Yes,
yes, exactly. We are a life. Not reality exists. The
second the second debate, The second question is can reality be created from nothing?
I don't personally believe so, and I don't think it was. And
it depends what you mean by nothing? Yes, nothing is absence of existence.
How do you the next question is if you have an absence of something,
how do you then feel that if there is nothing, as we're saying
here, there is an absence of everything, how do you create something so
that there is no longer an absence of everything? I mean, the point
is from something that doesn't exist, from something for nothing cannot be creative,
reality cannot beay, I agree, and I would agree with that too.
Can't disagree with that exactly. So the logical conclusion, the logical is a
straightforward conclusion. Logical conclusion is that reality is eternal always no something no no,
no, no no, because you are throwing eternal there, and eternal
can mean more than one thing. Now, I have no problem with accepting
that reality is eternal. I have no problem with accepting that whatsoever. But
it is not a self evident thing, and it can mean different things.
Does it mean that there is a necessary being, and let's say that the
universe is in philosophy, is a necessary being? That means it has to
exist? Or are you stating that there is a past eternality built on a
series of events. I am saying that always, no matter how bad you
go in time, always something has existed. That's the fact. That is
pure and simple logic. From the from that that is not pure and simple
logic. But I actually agree with you, but so weird simple logic though
as the unless Phoebe disagrees in anyway, I'm happy to move on with the
argument. I'll let phoebea just quickly response before we move on, and when
she's finished choking no long. You know. The thing is, reality is
eternal, So reality is internal now and always. You know, we don't
have to fight again for for for that for that point, you know,
we move forward from that point now. The next question is can the universe
be eternal? Is it possible or impossible that you universe is eternal? The
universe isn't eternal. The universe we know when the universe began. We have
red shifts, and you are are going to eventually get blue shifts which show
you the age of the universe. But the universe isn't necessarily the sum of
reality, or it is now, but it's not always been the sum of
reality. Some of our known reality does not necessarily mean that our unknown cannot
be factored into it. The thing is, that's why I I wanted to
read the point, because I get my points across. I explain with how
what I what I think about the is who you understand because the debate I
know how it can I go. You know, I have debated with asiers
and millions of times. You go nowhere, nowhere, you know, because
there is always the bad, there is a well, always say eve.
So basically that's that's my plan. My plan was just I read my my
statement. I read what I think about if if, if the universe can
come be or cannot be eternal. And for the audience, if once understand,
they understand that's preaching. We asked at the beginning, in the top
of the show, please don't preach reading a poem and expecting other people to
just accept it's a form of preaching. Please don't come on to the show
and preach. Yeah, And the thing is you said it was you discovered
a discovered proof of God. You've not presented that proof of God. You
have so far. You've had a conversation with us where we'll largely seem to
agree on things. We don't disagree with you. None of that that we
agree with leads us anywhere near to a God, never mind a specific one.
So is have you got a further part of the argument which will take
us to God? Okay, I'm going to splain why the universe cannot be
eternal. Again, we don't need to know. Look, Miguel, we
don't need to explain why the universe is not eternal because with both for the
sake of this argument, agreed with you that the universe is eternal or might
be eternal. What we're asking you now is how that relates to God?
Because she said, yeah, it was proof of God. This discovery we're
waiting to hear. Please tell us your discovery. Oh, I need to
talk. I cannot talk. I'm not explaining myself like in the last call,
like it's all the time. I need to explain myself. You're trying
to let you explain yourself. We're asking you a specific question. When you
when you're just going to move on to something we already acknowledge, we agree
with. Then there's no point like in your talk, because it's not going
to further the conversation. How does this relate to God? Let's get there.
We agree that the universe is a turned on for the sake of this
argument. Now, let's take the next step to you. What I am
saying to you is precisely the opposite. The universe cannot be eternal. It's
impossible. Do you understand? Why is it impossible? Right? That's a
that's a that's a claim that you've not made so far. So why are
you making the claim that the universe cannot be eternal, which, by the
way, started off by saying reality and now saying the universe, which I
have already stated or might be different things. Listen, listen, listen.
I say this is very simple, Okay, I say reality is eternal,
and I say the universe it's impossible to be eternal. Too simple a statement.
We agree, we agree with you. How does that get us to
God? We're not disagreeing because God is the creator of the universe. And
if so, where is that coming into this argument? How are you how
we are arguing for that? What are you giving is evidence for that?
What are you giving is an argument for that? I am giving you a
logical argument. The universe cannot be eternal. Therefore, therefore what created the
universe is eternal. That's what we call God. God. No, that's
what you call God. That could easily be the singularity from which the universe
expands. Right, you're calling it God, I'm calling it the singularity.
How do we make the differentiation? What? What can you present us with
which will convince us that it wasn't the singularity from which the universe came,
but it was God that caused it to spring into existence. This listen,
listen. Okay, what I'm saying is reality is a termal Yes, we've
done that little bit. We've already done that bait. Let's stop doing that
bait. And let's let's give an argument as to why it has to be
God. Because God by the Phoenician, God by the Phoenician, is the
creator of the universe, and the universe cannot be That's a circular argument,
sir. That's not logical. That is circular. So let's go So I
am stating, let's make this really simple. Listen, listen, listen,
let's make this really simple. I am stating that what the universe came from
was the singularity. You are stating that it is God. How are you
demonstrating that it is God? Because God by the Phoenician, by the Phoenician,
God is what created the universe. Do you understand No, no,
no, no, I'm stating that by definition, what created the universe was
the singularity. We know that the universe came from singularity. So what you
now have to do is show that both it didn't come from the singularity,
which is what we know actually happened, and that instead of the singularity,
God brought it into existence. That's what you have to do if you're now
making a logical argument. But you when you call the singularity, what you
are what you're saying is is more the universe was created by moral universe,
because there is no intelli no no, no, no no. I'm not
saying that. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying that
the universe was created by more universe. It's maybe that that's the case,
but that that's not what my argument is. My argument is as the science
shows, all that we know at the moment is that the universe came from
the singularity. That's where it expanded from. That's it. That's all I'm
saying. That it came from the singularity. You're saying, no, no,
no, it came from God. Why are you first dismissing the singularity
and secondly imposing God there instead. All right, because the singularity has a
beginion of existence. The singularity, the singularity the scientific people are talking about,
has the beginning of the sixth time. That singularity is no, no,
no, no, we don't know that. Nobody in there is no.
There are many hypotheses around this in physics, but there is no scientific
theory accepted theory that says that the singularity had the beginning of existence. We
don't know that. For all we know, for using philosophical language, for
all we know, the singularity could be a necessary being. We know that
the universe came from the singularity. We do not know that there is a
God. So why are you dismissing the singularity which we have knowledge of,
and asserting God in its place? Because when when when athis referred to a
singularity, the multiverse, the Big Ban, or anything else. They are
all different things that you've just referred to. So let's stick with the one
thing we're actually talking about, which is the singularity. Do you have an
understanding of what the singularity is? Yes, I know, I know what
it is. Basically what atheists say the universe was created. This has nothing
to do with atheists. Do you have an understand what understanding of what the
singularity is? Yes, it's something that created a universe, but without intelligence,
am I right? So what? Yeah? But do you have an
understanding of what it is other than something an adult? I actually object to
the word created because that implies an intelligence, something putting something into motion via
listen will please. The point is that what you're saying is that something caused
the but that that that thing was caused by by by something else. You
know. No, no, no, no, no, that is not
what I am saying. I have said this many many times during this conversation
that that is not what I'm saying. And this is exactly why after your
call last time, in your many many comments in the comments section, I
repeated to you that you were straw manning the hosts and you're doing it again.
Now. That is not what I am saying. I am not saying
that it comes from something else. That's not what we understand the singularity to
be. Do you understand what a singularity is? Yes, the singularity for
you, not for me. Do you understand what a singularity is? Yes?
I understand what a singularity, explain to me is then give me a
steel Man argument of what a simple one two line sentence of what a singularity
is in physics, A singularity is something without intelligence that costs the universe?
Am I right? No, you are not right. A singularity is something
that is a state of infinite density and temperature. It's where all the physics
that we do know break down. That's why we can't see any further than
it, because we don't have the mathematics to work there. So that's what
a singularity is. Nobody is suggesting at all. Nobody is suggesting at all
that the singularity was created by something else. If it's not eternally, it
was created but something else is as simple as that. It orderssertion. That's
about how it's not eternal or assertion. Yeah, how do you know it's
not eternal because it was? Course, because you know it wasn't. We
have no evidence that the singularity was caused whatsoever. We do not have any
evidence for that whatsoever. Why are you asserting that it is caused because it
has no intelligence? Because that intelligence something not having intelligence does not need a
prerequisite that it was caused. Coronavirus has no intelligence, or of course,
if it has no intelligence. It was caused you know, it was from
something else? No? Right? Right? You one more chanced Miguel to
kind of state why this has to be God? And without straw manningers and
saying we think that the singularity was caused, which isn't the case. Can
you stay why it wasn't the Singularity that brought the universe into existence and it
was God. What I'm saying is, what has the beginning of existence?
What has the beginning of existence? What's created by? What is eternal?
You know, logically, what has the beginning of existence? Not logically?
No, not logically. And on that note, I'm going to let you
go because I'm sorry if you had it's very confused. I'm very confused.
And I just want to point out as well, so the person called reasonable
face in the chart give us a call. Don't talk shit in the chart,
because that's exactly that what I was talking about at the beginning of the
show. If you've got a problem, call in and present an argument,
Phoebe anything to add to that call. I think that's the chartist you've ever
seen me. I think that's the quartst you've ever seen me. It was
just like Richard's got this. Richard, things like this really frustrate me because
you know, I love philosophy, I really really do. And on every
occasion when you have these conversations, this kind of special pleading is done that
what is a necessary being has to be gone and that is what the universe
has to have been brought into existence by that. None of those kind of
a priori thinking, they're not a priori arguments not self evident, and it
really frustrates me with that. And I also I am really into kind of
cosmo. I'm not a professional cosmologist. I'm a complete layman, but I
really enjoy reading about cosmology and things like that. And I hear these calls,
and I hear these apologies trying to make these arguments, and they get
the information wrong all the time, even from my basic understanding of it,
and they all kind of need to They jump onto vague like kind of scientific
weekly headlines that give sensationalist headlines to think and completely miss the point of the
actual things that are being discussed, and really frustrating. I feel like today's
calls, I've had to, you know, channel my inner other host.
I felt like I've had to channel my inner Shanning Queue with some with some
brain stuff, my inner Forest with some brain stuff in a case, Montgomery
with some dickheads, and my inner doctor Ben with you know, the biology
stuff. I feel like I've had to channel a lot of other hosts here
today. Yeah, we we have. We are not without more callers.
I think all the super chats have been read, So without further ado,
let's pick up another call. This is a buddy from Michigan who says his
friends started doubting faith and he wants tips on how to talk to them.
Buddy, Hello, do you want to kind of give us that? In
your own words? Hello, Buddy, Hello Richard, Hello Phoebe. I
am so sorry that you guys had to deal with some nonsense from a couple
of problematic callers. Uh. That's ridiculous, especially because at least one of
them was, you know carry Uh. A friend of mine recently told me
that she has been struggling for a long time and has started Her specific words
were, you know, it's been difficult for me in my situation. I
said, I understand, because you know, stuff is how it is these
days. I know that she'll find some employment soon. She's mostly having monetary
issues. She says, she hopes. So I'm getting all tired of this.
I don't know my faith anymore. I asked, what do you mean?
She says, I mean I'm hopeless, And I said, no,
you aren't. Don't say mean things about my friend like that. It's like
being that's like a michigander and not knowing where to point on your hand to
say where you come from. I'm sorry, I said, that's like being
a michigander and not knowing where on your hand to point to say where you've
come from. Yeah, but it's weird because I know where I come from.
I know it. It's an odd thing. So how long has your
friend been experiencing what they have brought to you? Oh, I've only known
them for a few months since the beginning of the year. But at the
very least, they're at this point a good friend of mine now and I
want to do everything I can to support them. But they kind of dodged
the question of what do you mean when I asked what do you mean about
your questioning your faith? And she was just like, well, I feel
like I'm hopeless. And I was like, well, don't say that about
yourself. And I have already told her that I'm atheist, and you know,
she was like, oh okay, and we just tabled that. But
I'm just curious how I should approach such a situation because I don't want to
bait them into you deconstruction or anything like that. That's not fair to anybody.
Are you comfortable saying what flavor of religion or where they're coming away from?
Sorry? Are you comfortable saying which flavor of religion they're coming away from?
Please don't reveal any information that may identify this person, but are you
comfortable saying which flavor of religion they're coming from? I know it's Christian,
I don't know which denomination I'm assuming Catholic because you can only get better from
there. Are you aware of the theory of street epistemology. No, I
am not, baby, So my understanding of it is you start to ask
the base questions why, and you start to break down the individual things.
Richard jumping if I'm getting the definitions of street epistemology incorrect here, because I
always get it slightly mixed up in my head. But it's about making sure
that you break down the understanding. And I would always approach them as a
friend, and I would just try to be a friend to them. I
don't know what you have to say, Richard, Yeah, I think I
think it's important to make them feel comfortable. And you know, you know
you have your friends. So your friends doubt in faith, they know that
you're an atheist. How often do you interact with them, and in what
kind of circumstances do you interact with them? Pretty much daily on faith book
jet right, so, and what conversations roughly you don't have to go into
personal lives roughly kind of what conversations do you have? Do you have kind
of philosophical conversations? Do you talk about things like that or is it all
kind of what computer game I played last week? Sometimes she brings up church,
sometimes she doesn't. She thanks God every now and then. You know,
it's generally just friendly chat. You know, I'm silly, You're silly.
I'm glad your dog doing how your can't do and all that. Yeah,
I think I think in this situation, what I'd tend to do is
I very rarely interact with my religious friends on faith on Facebook in a kind
of in this you know, why do you believe what you believe kind of
way. I have a lot of religious friends, and I have had a
lot of religious friends over the years. I've been stayed at Buddhist montaries,
I've been to eat meals mosques, I've been invited to church services because this
is what I do. I'll talk to religious people all the time. But
I talked to him on on in a lot of the case on a kind
of the level of let's explore this thing together, let's do this religious work
together and through university, because that's what we do at university and things like
that, which we talk about that we work together on projects and things.
So that's that's kind of I wouldn't go into those situations talking to those people
and suddenly start asking them why they believe what they do. However, if
I had a friend who was bringing it to the table, let's say,
and you know, there was a recent example of this of one of these
people who is doing the same university course as I have as a Christian,
and we had we had to come so were going, oh, I'm sorry,
it's the literal words that she types were Uh sorry, I got to
scroll up the wind where is it? Yeah, So if somebody brings it
to the table. Then I would see that as an opening to have that
conversation with them. Think that I think it's I think in a way that
you know, when somebody says something like that, when they bring it to
the table, they're inviting you to have that conversation with them, so you
know. And then that is when I asked, what do you mean to
kind of charge the question and just replied with I'm hopeless, And I said,
don't say something like that. He said, what do you mean,
Well, you're strong, you're determined, You're not going to give up.
I know you're not. Yeah, there's there's a couple of organizations that you
can kind of reference your friend too. One is Recovering from Religion and the
other is Freedom from Religion Foundation, And they're both really really good organizations for
kind of that your friend can get in touch with and have these conversations with,
or even you can call these organizations for kind of advice on how to
talk to your friend. Also, we have one of our hosts, objectively,
Dan Is. Yeah, Dan, Dan is someone when when Phoebe was
talking about street epistemology, Dan came out of religion and I'm sure he won't
mind me saying this. This is well publicized. Dan came or started doubting
because he was stopped in the street by a guy called Antony Magnabosco, who
is a street epistemologist, and he asked Dan what he believed and why he
believed it, and started this chain of events. And this has eventually led
Dan out of religion. So it might be worse calling back when Dan's hosting
to kind of get his view on this, because he would really be able
to kind of talk you through this a lot better than I can. Has
never been religious myself, and I've never come out of religion, so I
will keep an eye out for objectively Dan, And I mean maybe he'll show
up in the after show discord or something like that and I can act them
there and not even bone line like that would be super cool. I mean,
feel free to call the show when it's on. I'm sure we'd love
to take your call. But in the meantime, yeah, to take I
think to put it in the chat if you've got access to the chart,
They've put the links for recovering from religion in there, so if you want
to kind of have a look at that, even for yourself in the meantime,
But I'm going to let you go. I appreciate your call. Give
Dan a call back, Really, do give Dan a call back and have
this conversation with him. I think that's the better place to do it.
Phoebe, have we got Do you want to take another one? Have you
got time to take another call? Yes? I've got time to on more
call. I think I think we will take Adam from Tennessee, who thinks
most theists take the Bible more literal when it is likely more mythological. And
what do the hosts think about that? Hello, Budday, it's somebody who
we're talking to. It is Adam's apologies, Adam. Uh, talk us
through it, talk us through what you're asking. Yeah, so I just
kind of have a question. Uh. So when you look at Christian symbolism,
uh, and you look at churches, you'll see a zodiac cross on
top. It depends on what denomination. Each of them have different stuff like
Pentecostals show the fire. Uh. And if you look at older cultures like
Egypt, the Sumerian, Greeks, Persia, Uh, they all have and
they're all stimular to each other. But just told differently and betrayed it a
little different, but still if you look at medieval art going back and you
look at biblical symbology, you can kind of pinpoint the players that you're looking
at and uh, kind of correlate them with the constellations and the sky and
what they're doing with the star that it's named after and what it represents.
And then if you look at the story of Jesus's life from birth to ascension,
you can pretty much trace it out on the ecliptic that the sun takes.
And the numbers in the Bible too that they reference are kind of more
hermetic, and the Bible to me is kind of just telling you stories about
choices and stuff like that. But it's you know, it says in the
Bible and the prayer on earth as it is in heaven. So I just
kind of want your thoughts on that. I mean, we can look at
revelations and revelations means to reveal, and if you take just Revelations twelve nine,
it says the great Dragon was thrown out the ancient serpent also known as
the devil, saying the adversary, the deceiver of the whole world. He
was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
I think what they're saying is he's just going down to the horizon and
leaving the season that we're in. And what follows is the other constellations.
And then also if you look at Egypt, the Wisdom Keepers, there was
a riddle back then with the pinx and finx and Greeks means fingo, our
singo means to bind. And if you look at the zodiac, which is
called the Mazaroth in the Bible, it's kind of telling you the prophecies of
the Bible in order from Virgo to Leo, and the first propheties he starting
with Genesis three point fifteen, and I will put enmity between thee and the
woman, and between thy seed and her seed. It shall bruise thy head,
and thou shall bruise his heel. Well, if you look at the
compilations of Bots and the Virgo and where Hercules and all these they've got,
you know, the constellations bruising the serpent's head and the seed. If you
look at the Virgo, she's holding a branch and uh wheat stalk in her
hand, but uh there's you know, so the branch. I guess I
could say, uh, I guess we can go to Isaiah four. In
that day, shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and
the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for that shape of Israel.
Well, the fruit when we're talking about Virgo would have to be the
fruit off of the tree, because if you look at the constellations, you
got Hydra, the snake, Virgo, and the Otis, which the os
would be Adam, Virgo would be Eve, and Hydro would be the snakes
that turned into the snake if you look at the pull star. Okay,
so let's let me let me just let me just stop you that I'm going
to kind of throw it over to Phoebe because she looks like she's got something
to say. But I'll let Phoebe start and then I'll kind of jump in
in a little later on. So are you saying that when you say that
most of this take the Bible more literally? Are you saying that with the
examples who have just given that there is a literal belief that what is written
there is believed by some who follow the theistic teachings of the Bible, that
these individual things could occur today. Is that one of the things that you're
trying to say here. I'm just trying to get the point you're coming from
here, because I understand that from my experience there's a lot of very deeply
religious people say a lot of things about the Bible. But if you were
to then challenge, Okay, when did you see the burning bush? When
did you see a man walk through the desert for forty days? When did
you see the when the Immaculate conception? Today they can't actually point to them
and they just go, oh, no, no, no, no,
no, it only happened. Then are you saying that some of these people
believe that today could happen as well. Well, I think they are just
kind of confused about I think we all could be confused. I think we
could all be wrong. I just alls understands we need to look at uh,
you know, kind of do our homework and really look at these things
before we put our beliefs in them and really judge them by education and not
feelings, because a lot of Christianity has done off of feelings. This feels
good, it's comforted, you know it gives them feeling, and I'm just
saying, we need you think that having that comfort and feel good is a
bad thing in general? No, I don't, because I think the Bible
is teaching us choices between the you know, uh, the way we could
go that's more pleasing to everybody here on earth, or we could go the
bad way that's just more selfish and deceitful. But I do there are certain
elements of the Christian Bible, such as the King James Translation and the other
International Mentions, that do have some things that some people would find very comforting,
but there are absolutely grotesque, like how much could the first door to
be sold? For example? Red. Yeah, the Bible is absolutely gross.
I do not take any moral and I don't think anyone should. If
if you're going to take Exodus twenty one as morality, kind of morality kind
of goes off the table in my book. But as far as the prophecies,
though, it's Uranus in Greek was the kingdom of heaven. So when
Jesus was saying the Uranus, I can't get the work first. I don't
really want to quote it right now. I don't have it in front of
me, but he's just saying, the kingdom of heaven when you go into
the age of Aquarius. Uranus is the planet of Aquarius. And I think
he's just saying, when you the kingdom of that will happen. Like we're
just going from one age to another. He's just talking about different ages.
And there's you know, other stuff in the Bible like Psalm sixty one,
but God shall shooting era. I think there's two ways that I'd like to
kind of come at this from. I'm sorry for interrupting you, but I
think on one hand, your kind you seem to be kind of doing the
opposite of what the Christians who you've called in about are doing, and that's
rather than taking it literally, you're kind of in putting in your own interpretation
into what's written in there, which may or may not be correct. But
I think though the more important point, rather than kind of this interpretation you're
kind of giving us about these zodiac kinds and things, is that the Bible
is lots of different books. I was going to say it's a big book,
but it's a collection. It's a big book which is a collection of
lots of different books, and it's a what do they call it it's a
bound version, yeah, and it has. It's been it's been written over
a long period of time by many, many different people, and it has
taken on different meanings and different interpretation over that time, even within groups that
proclaim to kind of be the same groups. So let's take Protestants, for
example, a group of Orthodox Christians who believe that the Bible is true.
And if you ask any number of Protestants, they might have different interpretations of
what different verses mean. So it's very difficult to say that. It's difficult
to say from the outset that theists take the Bible literally, because they don't
all take it literally, and it depends which part of the Bible they're looking
at and you're talking about. But it's also very difficult to say that there
is a correct interpretation of it. I've been studying religious texts seriously for probably
about fifteen years, not just Christian ones, lots of different texts, Buddhist
ones, Islam, and you get this thing in all of them where you
can kind of there there is an art yardstick, and even if there is
a yardstick presented, you can trace where that yardstick comes from. But there
isn't a yardstick implicit that tells you how you must interpret a religious text.
Depend there are different ways to read religious texts, and they are all legitimate,
and there are arguments within all of those readings as to how you do
that. So you might have people who argue from a history point of view
about the Bible. You might people have people who are religious believers who read
it from a believing point of view. You might have people who read it
from the point of view of textual criticism. And within all these different areas,
people will disagree on exactly what the meaning is. This is why we
have huge kind of sweths of scholarship about it. I have the misfortune a
lot. It sounds a lot like my line of work being in the legal
field, because you can have the same text written and you can have fifty
different people in the legal world all interpreted completely differently. Yeah. And the
difference between the legal world and the religious world is there is no centralized authority
that you can go through to say, please tell us what this means,
right, Yeah. And I think that this is where the problem kind of
arises in that we don't have this yardstick, and we have all these different
ways to read it. They're all legitimate ways to read it, and yes,
I include religious belief. It's a legitimate way to read a religious text.
It might not necessarily give you the correct history, but it may be
grounded in logic, but it is still a legitimate scholarship on that passing of
the library, that is the religious text that you are ingested. And there's
not only different ways to read it, there is there's a whole fields of
study dedicated to how it was put together and the language books were included,
which books were excluded, which books were amalgamated, which books were pared down,
what the actual translation into different languages is. So there are different languages
where if you translate between the languages, you can't translate it as written.
So there's a Cornish language version of the Bible, and there's an English language
version of the Bible. And if you then translate the Cornish language version into
another language and then back into English, the meaning will change because the differences
in the languages themselves, that will cause the words that are untranslatable or ambiguously
translatable to be changed. It reminds me of the beginning of the film Snatch.
If anyone in the beginning of the film Snatch. They have a really
good bit on the interpretation of the Bible, and I would advise people just
to ingest that beginning bit of that movie because it talks about the interpretation of
the word virgin and young woman from Greek and that is a really good piece
of biblical scholarship. Yes, and I think I'm going to I'm kind of
going to wrap up, and I'm going to give you a chance to respond
in just a second, Adam, But I think the short answer to your
question is that theists don't always take the Bible literally literally depends who they are
and how they interpret it. There is no yardstick to take it literally from,
and it is partly mythological. Is there's lots of different aspects to it
and lots of different legitimate ways to read it. It takes a life time
of scholarship to even become even familiar with a lot of these ways. And
trust me, I have my head and I am not making I am not
lying when I say this. I have my head stuck in religious journals on
a daily basis, and have done for at least the last ten to fifteen
years. And I'm still only scratching the surface of some of this stuff.
So it's yes, you're right in a very very very broad sense, but
I would encourage you to kind of look at it more in depth before kind
of making blanket statements and painting people with broadbrushers. We are near the end
of the show. I'm going to let you respond and then I will I
will let you go, Adam, Okay, yeah, no, I just
wanted to get your opinion on it, because, like I said, you'll
do more study than I do. I just wanted to catch your wife.
I think you'll on and I appreciate the feedback, and yeah, yeah,
thank you for your call, Adam. We really really do appreciate it and
me to call back, and we we are coming towards sorry, Phoebe,
we are coming towards the end of the show. We have run very very
over and had some very very interesting calls. You see. It's me.
I'm just I'm just I'm just wonderful, you see, Phoebe. I'm going
to let people into a little bit of a background thing here, the viewers
into a little bit of a background thing here. When Phoebe was asked onto
the show, I asked her as is my want as producer of the show,
which of the hosts she wanted to work with? And she said you
And that was both a blessing and a curse. Let me tell mind.
We go, but we go back along way and we're we're really good friends
and have some great, great fun together. Please show Phoebe all the love
in the chat and in the comments section. Don't forget that the prompt for
this week is complete the sentence. It was funked up when God blank show
those comments. Give it up on the laugh now, so it was funked
up. God must have on the US, put me on secular sexuality,
truth quanted, the nonprofits, the Akish Experience, and finally talk Ethan finally
Talky. Then and tune in at the beginning of next week's episode to hear
the top three answers. Female, would you like to do with some loverings?
Let's send some lovering, get those magical wings going the no crew if
we don't. The origins of the lover Rings are from the days of public
access television, when the show was running out of time on public access television
when it was previously broadcast as the Eighties Experience on local Austin Public Access Television,
and they used to play the lover rings to show that the show was
coming towards to name. We are going myself and FEMA are going to be
in the discord with the wonderful Kelly Laughlin. If you want to ask us
more questions, if you want to talk to us a little bit more,
please do jump into the discord and have a conversation with us. For all
the gob Shites who've been in the chat telling us that God exists and not
having the balls to phone in, all the god Shites call in next week
because preaching in the chat doesn't convince anybody, It really really doesn't. Then
I've seen you there and you have not called in. Please call in,
uh we if you don't believe this is your community and we do really appreciate
you being here. Thank you all of you for joining us. If you
don't believe, we don't hate you, We're just not convinced. We'll see
you next time. We want the truth. So watch Truth Wanted live Friday
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