WEBVTT

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This episode may contain content of a
graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and

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sexual violence against adults, children,
and animals. Listener discretion is advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Tanya and I'm
Talia and we are Crimes and Consequences,

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a true crime podcast. Hi Taliah, Hi Tania. How are you doing

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today? Great? Great, wonderful? Doing really great? Thanks for us.

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Oh that's good to know you know
how I'm fucking doing? Why are

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we playing this? Really? You're
not doing well? I'm doing fine.

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Yeah, you're doing just fine.
I have a new episode this week,

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and before I get into it,
I would just like to ask everyone to

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hit this of scriber follow button on
your favorite app that you're listening to us

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on, and I'm just going to
get into the story. Yeah, knock

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it out. It was early September
of nineteen eighty two in Rome, Georgia,

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at the Regional Youth Development Center.
What's that so? I'm going to

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refer to this as the RYDC.
It's a facility for troubled adolescent girls.

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The phone rang one night and a
staff member named Kenneth Dooley. He was

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the one that answered the phone.
On the other line was a woman who

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claimed to know his wife. During
their conversation, she asked for directions to

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their personal home not like this home. Not thinking much of it, he

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gave the information and the call ended
shortly thereafter. However, his wife,

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and they had only been married a
few months, claimed she had no idea

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who this woman was. In the
end, they just shrugged it off and

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they really didn't think about it again. That is until the night of September

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tenth is though, right very weird. On September tenth, a young woman

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called asking for Kenneth, but he
was out. She called back a little

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bit later, and this time she
got him on the line. She waited

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patiently for him to come to the
phone, and when he picked up the

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receiver, expecting to hear a woman's
voice, he was unpleasantly caught off guard

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because I'm the other lend was an
angry mail voice, and the man told

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him you're gonna pay Oh, So
Kenneth was dumbfounded, like he just couldn't

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understand what what do you mean.
Later that night, four shots were fired

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into his home, two of which
penetrated his study. He managed to see

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a car speeding way and he called
the police and no one was hurt.

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He wasn't sure exactly what he was
reporting. Well, that's fucked up.

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I know, like what, I've
never had any shots fired into my No

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me either, Oh right. He
didn't know if the shots were intended for

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him or someone in his family,
but it definitely worried him. He had

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a new wife, his two children
were in the house with him, so

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there was obvious cause for concern.
Are these children wom a different marriage?

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Yeah, like troom a different marriage. He ended up staying wide awake that

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night. I know right, I
wouldn't be able to sleep either. He

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soon though, would find out he
wasn't the only one being targeted. The

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following night, another roy DC staff
member it was her turn. A homemade

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molotov cocktail thrown into the home of
Kenneth's co worker, Linda A. Dare.

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Apparently her husband was reported saying that
Linda received several phone calls from a

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young woman just prior to this incident, but when Linda had gone to the

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phone to take the call, there
was no one on the other end of

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the line. Right after the fire
bomb was tossed, a neighbor boy reported

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seeing a brown car with cream colored
stripes speedaway with a man and a woman

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with long reddish hair inside. When
the flames were extinguished, the police examined

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the ba, which had been constructed
with a simple bottle cloth and gasoline like

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your typical I guess small to contain. Yeah, I mean, I've made

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cocktails, but not that one.
Right. At first, they thought that

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Linda's arson inspector husband was the target, but they soon discovered that to be

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untrue. While the police were still
in Linda's home, another phone call came

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into her home again. It was
a young woman who this time told Linda

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that both her and Kenneth Dooley were
going to die that very night. Oh

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wow, it was obvious both of
these assaults on the RYDC staff members were

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intentional and meant for them specifically.
This call, along with another one made

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later to police, proved that these
two attacks were linked. The motive behind

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it was anger and revenge from a
woman who refused to give her name in

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any other information except for the fact
that she was a victim of sexual abuse

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at the hands of the RYDC.
Luckily, her call had been recorded,

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so she called the police told them
listen, I did this because I was

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a victim of sexual abuse. They
recorded these calls so that could be used

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when they were looking into it.
Police promptly had Linda take a listen,

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and while she said the voice sounded
similar to the woman who had called her

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at home, she wasn't able to
identify the voice as belonging to anyone she

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knew from the RYDC, or anyone
else that she knew for that matter.

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The police searched for clues and interviewed
people at the RYDC, trying to figure

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out who exactly might have been responsible
for the incidents, and decided whether the

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allegations of abuse had any substance.
Unfortunately, since no one had been harmed

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in the attacks, and since there
were no clear leads, the case went

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on the back burner. On Saturday, September twenty fifth, nineteen eighty two.

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So this is a couple weeks later, two young girls were approached on

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the western side of Rome, Georgia
by a woman who wanted to know their

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names. It turns out this woman, and spoiler alert, it's the woman

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that made the original call. HERMO
was to pretend she knew one of the

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girls as she approached them, calling
the girl by a wrong name intentionally.

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This is her way like to get
information. Okay, once the little name

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mistake was set straight through naturally conversing, the girl had managed to learn one

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of the girl's real name and where
she lived. After this, the woman

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would continue to pressure her about going
with her to ride, like get in

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my car, We're going to take
a ride, which really sounded odd,

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but both of these girls managed to
avoid her. However, not all were

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as lucky. Thirteen year old two
escape, Yeah, these two escape.

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Thirteen year old Lisa Anne Milliken was
one of the unlucky ones. Lisa was

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on and outing with five other girls
from the Ethel Harps Home for Neglected Girls

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in Cedartown. You know that really
sounds like a sad place. They were

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visiting the Riverbend Mall, which is
the central shop area in Rome, Georgia.

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At the time, it had a
video game arcade for families and teenagers,

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so the girls like to go there. Lisa wouldn't have known this,

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but two years earlier, a woman
had been robbed at gunpoint at that same

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mall on the day before Halloween.
Interesting enough, the very woman who had

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been arrested for the robbery and spent
a brief time at a juvenile facility.

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The RYDC was now luring Lisa away
from the mall and her friends toward a

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brown car. One minute, she
was with the other girls being told to

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meet a certain spot, and by
the time they were all back together again,

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Lisa was gone. Three separate searches
were made and then the police were

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called, but Lisa. They didn't
find her. The worried social worker who

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had accompanied the girls on their mall
trips said that Lisa had been wearing jeans

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and a white and black patterned blouse. Several days went by and there still

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was no sign of Lisa and no
leads either. That is until the same

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female caller made three anonymous phone calls
to the police directing them to Alabama's Little

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River Canyon, which was about thirty
five miles away from where Lisa had disappeared

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the well. These calls were initially
received and recorded, but when they checked

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out the area that the caller told
him to go to, they didn't find

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anything. Then police and Alabama took
the next two calls. A call also

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came into a roam radio station claiming
that the police were covering up a murder

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done by a female juvenile officer.
The caller named Lisa Anne Milliken as a

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victim, so the police thoroughly searched
the area once more, following the concise

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instructions given. The caller said,
you know you're going to find her body.

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Finally, just as dusk was coming
on September twenty ninth, they spotted

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the still figure of a child draped
partially over a tree trunk, a child

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yeah stone on the canyon floor.
A pair of jeans hung from a branch

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nearby. As they got closer,
they could see a bullet hole in the

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victim's back, showing her death wasn't
an accident and instead she was murdered.

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It appeared as though she'd been thrown
down from the eighty foot height onto these

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rocks. I know. As they
carefully brought the body up to the top

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in a basket, a woman who
had known Lisa from one of the juvenile

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facilities positively identified her as Lisa Anne
Milliken. She had finally been found.

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Lisa's autopsy revealed that she had been
subjected to a series of brutal attacks and

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she's only thirteen. If you remember, she had been raped. She was

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injected in the neck with something that
like boiled the fat under her skin,

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I know, and the county corner
described the like under the skin like her

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flash or fat was consistency of anchovy
paste. What. Crime scene investigators also

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found three plastic syringes near her body, which were sent for fingerprints and further

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substance analysis. The crime layoub came
back stating that the substance found in the

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syringes had the basic components of like
liquid drain. Now, so she had

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been injected. Oh, yes,
she had been injected several times. The

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jeans, I know, poor Lisa. The jeans that had been found hanging

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from the tree had red splatches of
blood on them, but they turned out

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not to be Lisa's pants. It
which is really strange, and police thought

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maybe the pants belonged to the killer. Well, they don't know if they're

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guy's pants, these guys pants,
girls pants? Like, what are these

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pants? I believe they were probably
girls pants? Okay. Detective Sergeant Kenneth

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Kines was assigned to had the investigation
into Lisa's murder. The only thing that

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they had to go on thus far
were the call that had been made.

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Each one had been recorded, so
Detective Kinds started their first investigators listened to

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each of the calls made to the
various places regarding Lisa, and some of

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the investigators agreed that the same woman. It sounded like she'd made all four,

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especially when the transcripts were typed out. Once everything was in front of

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them, they realized the clues were
and how she talked, like the phrases

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and in her accent. She sounded
fairly young, and many things she said

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indicated she was familiar with the juvenile
justice system. Investigators checked whether Lisa had

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any enemies. Who's an enemy of
this thirteen year right right? While it

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turned out that she was not popular, there seemed to be no specific grudges

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that might make someone wish to kill
her. The police figured that Lisa's abductor

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was probably from the Rome area rather
than Alabama, since the first calls had

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been made there, and they interviewed
everyone they could think of, from the

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girls at the home where she had
been face, to farmer neighbors, to

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her destitute father who had allegedly molested
her. He interviewed her mother, who

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had a boyfriend fresh out of prison. Many people were given light detector tests,

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and some looked pretty good as suspects, but no one emerged as a

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viable person to continue to investigate.
It seemed at Leasta either had friends that

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no one had known about, or
she had been abducted by a stranger.

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Even as the police were busy with
this crime, another one was taking place

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on the streets of Rome, with
another victim targeted for similar treatment. I

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know, I'm October third cemetery worker
John Hancock, which I think is kind

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of funny. But John Hancock and
his fiance Janice K. Chapman accepted an

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invitation from a complete stranger to go
riding around. What like, wow,

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Like what do you mean? Yeah, We're just hanging out the cemetery and

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someone's like, hey, you want
to go? They're just on the street

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somewhere, and a young woman in
a car who was a complete strangers to

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them commit them somehow't have some fun. She lurned them into her car by

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giving them a pitiful story about how
she was lonely and she just wanted some

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company for a while. So I'd
be like what the fuck. I know,

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I'd be like what, I'm busy, I had got shit to do.

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I'm not happing in the car with
you. But this couple got in

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and as a Christian. John later
said he felt obligated to do what he

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could for her, so he and
Janice got in. During the ride,

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they talked with the woman who showed
them her Cobra CB radio and she got

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into a conversation with someone on the
other end called the night Rider stop.

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I know. The The woman went
by Lady's sondown and she acted like she

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didn't know night Rider. But this
would soon prove to be untrue. John

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and Janice had cbe handles of their
own. Oh so, when John noticed

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the weakness of the frequency that the
driver was using to chat with night Rider,

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he wondered what was going on.
After all, this night Rider character

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seemed to be quite close rather than
where he said he was. He communicated

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with Lady Sundown in a code that
was foreign to John. Yeah, I

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know. So John just relaxed and
went along for the ride. But then,

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to john surprise, the woman took
them outside of town. She came

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to a stop where a rather large
man was apparently waiting for them in a

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red Granada. This man was the
mysterious night night Rider. John introduced himself

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and Janie to night Rider, and
night Rider said he wanted to find some

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alcohol. Then they all drove her
way together in two cars to get another

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spot that was miles away from where
they had all come from. Night Rider

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pretended he was looking for a place
to get liquor, but really he was

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just trying to get them lost,
and John lost all sense of directions,

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so he had no idea where they
were to John surprise, he was allowed

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to get out of the car to
pee, but when he did, Lady

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Sundown walked up to him with a
handgun and ordered him into the woods.

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Well shit, She walked him down
a narrow road and then he heard night

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Rider yelled her like, get it
over with, She told John, don't

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worry about your girlfriend. Night Rider
yelled again at her, and then John

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felt a shot go through his right
shoulder and he fell to the ground.

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Fortunately for him, Lady Sundown was
in a hurry and she didn't check to

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make sure he was alive or not. John was shocked and dazed by what

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had just happened, but yeah,
he was still alive. He knew he

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needed to act fast, but he
had to wait and make sure that the

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coast was clear before he could get
up. After laying there for a bit,

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he managed to regain his strength,
and he ran to the road and

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he flagged down a truck driver.
His girlfriend. She's nowhere near them.

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I guess it couldn't have done munch
to save her anyway, he probably couldn't.

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The truck driver took him to the
hospital, and that's when a nurse

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called the police. Although John had
been shot in the right shoulder, he

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would recover. He gave police his
version of the story, but the police

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weren't completely convinced. For a few
reasons. They initially suspected maybe it was

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a drug deal gone bad hood since
John was saying that a woman had shot

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him, and he didn't seem to
put up any kind of fight. Okay,

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wasn't making a drug deal? I
don't know. And then they just

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didn't like his mannerisms. I guess. While he talked to them, he

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was like easygoing, and even though
they didn't think he was lying, he

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seemed oddly unconcerned about his fiance or
even about his own attack. It seemed

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to be a rather strange story anyway, like it is a fu getting into

215
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the car with a strange woman you
don't know. Even so, there had

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00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:37.240
been a number of reports over the
past few days of people being approached by

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00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:41.600
a woman driving around in a brown
dodge with white stripes, So at least

218
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that lent some credibility to a story. John was able to supply a description

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00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:52.000
of lady Sundown and night riders stop. They gave police a break in all

220
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.679
of these recent puzzling cases. However, it didn't come out, and during

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his interrogation instead, when they were
going to give him a polygraph, he

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overheard Detective Kinds playing the tape of
the female caller. He recognized the voice.

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Yeah, absolutely, He was like, that's the woman who shot me.

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So he told his story again to
Detective Kinds and he offered physical details

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so that they could do a composite
sketch for Detective Kinds. This was a

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00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:19.480
real break in the case. John
wanted to help in any way that he

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could. He even agreed to submit
to hypnosis his way to refresh his memory,

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like maybe there was something but he's
missing, that's your subconscious. He

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was taken to Atlanta to have the
sun and he was able to remember one

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thing, and it was that there
was a bumper sticker on one of the

231
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cars that he hadn't previously mentioned.
He also rode around town with Detective Kinds

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and an effort to see if anything
he saw could jog his memory where he

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was. Yeah, because he said
he was lost. Yeah, he was

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lost. After Detective Kinds was certain
that all of the anonymous calls were made

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by the same woman, he went
back to Linda Adair and Kenneth Dooley,

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and remember they were the one at
the beginning of the story that had their

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home attacked. So Detective Kinds decided
to bring them both in together and he

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wanted to know from them whether something
had occurred at the RYDC to a girl

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00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:17.680
who might now be to yeah exactly. The two both denied that there had

240
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been any kind of sexual abuse occurring
at the facility, and they said that

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they didn't even know each other outside
of being coworkers. Detective Kinds went over

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all of the files of the girls
who had been sent to the RYDC due

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00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.720
to crimes they had committed and narrowed
his list of suspects down to five with

244
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:41.440
prior records. Among them was Judith
Anne Neelie and chief of the description given

245
00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:45.079
by some of the witnesses. In
addition, she had been involved with an

246
00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.480
armed robbery, so they knew she
was comfortable using the gun, and they

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00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.400
can give her mushot to John.
Right. So, after doing some digging

248
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:57.920
and investigating, Detective Kinds discovered that
Judith was married to a man named Alvin,

249
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and they both had police records.
He then placed their photos in a

250
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.880
lineup to show John. Absolutely,
John hesitantly picked out the Kneelies as his

251
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attackers, but he said he'd want
to see them in person, Like,

252
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but I don't know, he said, you know, it was a long

253
00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:18.160
night and the guy, Yeah,
it was a long night, John,

254
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Yeah, he said. In the
guy in the photo, you know,

255
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.119
night rider, he had a beard, so it was hard to tell.

256
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Ye, I didn't see that.
As it turned out, luck was in

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the police's favor, seeing as Alvin
and Judith had been arrested for other crimes,

258
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so they were conveniently in custody in
Tennessee. Oh so they're literally arrested

259
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.480
at that point. Yeah, they
arrested at that point. So this is

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00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.319
right after what happened to John.
Yes, yes, let me tell you

261
00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.640
a little bit about Judith and Alvin, these two winners. I can't wait.

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Judith and Neelie was born a loser
who was also known by her Cebee

263
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handles which were Lady Sundown or Lady
Goodyear. And she was went by the

264
00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.160
bride of Frankenstein. Oh that's love
ye. Judith was born in mumps free

265
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:08.480
Borough, Tennessee, in nineteen sixty
four. Her father died in a motorcycle

266
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:12.119
accident when she was nine, and
after he died, Judith's home life went

267
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:18.000
from bandor's I bet Her mother was
arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a

268
00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.319
teenage boy. And I'm not sure
exactly what that doesn't sound good. No.

269
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:26.759
When Judith was fifteen, she met
Alvin Neely, who was twelve years

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00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.319
her senior. Oh gross, I
know, very gross. Although he was

271
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.960
larger than most football players, so
he's a big dude. He had a

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00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:41.559
face most people thought was sweet to
stop it. Born born in Georgia,

273
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I don't know, born in Georgia. He was car thief with a friendly

274
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:52.960
demeanor, who was more than car
thief with a friendly demeanor. He was

275
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.920
more than happy to give Judith a
way out of her taxic situation at home.

276
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:02.880
Their chemistry was instantaneous and undeniable.
Neither could imagine life without the other.

277
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.599
However, Alvin was married at the
time, No problem. Yeah,

278
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:11.880
he decided to get a divorce so
it could be with his fifteen year old

279
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.960
girlfriend basically, and his wife really
wasn't all that upset to see him go.

280
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And then Alvin and Judith eloped in
Georgia in nineteen eighty. Judith so

281
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:26.640
she's like sixteen. Judith fit in
easily with Alvin into his life of petty

282
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:32.839
crimes. They were constantly on the
move, robbing convenience stores and gas stations

283
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:37.599
from Georgia to Texas in order to
finance their on the go lifestyle. As

284
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:41.400
they came into the Riverbend Mall parking
lot in Rome, Georgia, they finally

285
00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:45.559
made a mistake in nineteen eighty They
robbed a woman at gunpoint and were eventually

286
00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:49.640
caught trying to cash stolen checks,
which led to their arrest. Since Alvin

287
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:55.240
had outstanding warrens in several states,
he was sentenced to five years in prison.

288
00:21:55.839 --> 00:22:00.599
Judith, on the other hand,
ended up at the Ryds. Oh

289
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.559
there we go, Ding Ding Ding
ding Ding. She was pregnant at the

290
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:08.039
time and gave birth to twins.
She's pregnant in twins. She was then

291
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:12.720
transferred to another facility in making Georgia. Judith spent much of her time writing

292
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:17.799
to Alvin, telling him how much
she despised the staff at the r y

293
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:22.519
DC, and she claimed that they
had sexually abused her. That's just it.

294
00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.880
Though all of her allegations have been
denied by the staff there and police

295
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.720
found no evidence to support them,
so I can't confirm or deny whether they

296
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:34.279
were true or not. Even so, she managed to get Alvin feeling like

297
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:38.440
he needed some revenge due to these
incidents. She got them all riled up,

298
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.359
so now they are on this war
path. For how long did he

299
00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:47.599
do? Uh? It had been
less and five, Yeah, it was

300
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:51.599
less than five. It was definitely
like a year and a half. Judith

301
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.880
was released towards the end of nineteen
eighty one, and since she had nowhere

302
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.319
else to go, she ended up
moving in with Alvin's parents in Tennessee until

303
00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:02.359
he was released from prison. But
her stint away didn't help much, as

304
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:07.000
she returned right back to her old
crime freeways. Surprised, she was arrested

305
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.400
again after robbing another convenience store,
and I don't know what punishment she got,

306
00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:15.920
if any, but Alvin's parents took
care of the twins. I wouldn't

307
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.000
even know how to rob a convenience
store. I don't know. Excuse me?

308
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:22.279
Can you just give me all your
money? Yeah? Stick them up,

309
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.759
I don't know, stick them up, stick them up. Within six

310
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:29.519
months, Alvin had been granted an
early release, so he did all of

311
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:32.640
like a year and a half.
So the two picked up where they had

312
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:37.039
left off, leaving their kids behind. They needed money, so they learned

313
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:41.559
how to steal checks from post offices
and use their signatures to forge money orders,

314
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.799
which became their primary means of supporting
their lifestyle. I don't know how

315
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.599
you forge money orders, but I
don't know. I know this is back

316
00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.720
in nineteen eighty two, so who
knows. To keep track of one another,

317
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:57.200
they installed CBE radios in their respective
cars, and Alvin became the night

318
00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:03.519
rider in Judith Lady Sundown. Just
so cool. They even gave themselves the

319
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.000
nicknames of Bony and Claude as a
joke about their resemblance to the bank robbing

320
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:17.119
Bonnie and Clyde. It's so stupid, that's so clever, so hysterical clever.

321
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:21.000
Yes. In September nineteen eighty two, they found themselves in Rome,

322
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:23.920
Georgia again and decided to launch an
all out attack, which ended up being

323
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.720
much of what I've told you earlier
about the attacks on Kenneth Dooley and Linda

324
00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:33.960
Adair's residences, as well as the
kidnapping of Lisa Millican. In this account,

325
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.880
I'm gonna tell you about all these
crimes came mostly from Judith. Judith

326
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.319
described that they abducted Lisa Millican from
an arcade and said she looked like Jonie

327
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:47.160
Cunningham from Happy Days. They kept
her. This was really sad what they

328
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:51.279
did to her, so buckle up, all right. They kept her captive

329
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:56.359
in two different hotel rooms in Georgia
and Alabama for three days. Judith and

330
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.519
Alvin had sex with Lisa and kept
her handcuffed to a bed, which forced

331
00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:03.559
her to sleep on the floor.
Then, at alvin distraction, Judith took

332
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:08.039
Lisa to a remote canyon in Alabama
and tried to inject her with drink cleaner

333
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:14.079
products they had purchased for this very
purpose. Horrible time. I know,

334
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.240
I can't even imagine. If it
touches your skin, it burns, yes,

335
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:26.000
And but Lisa didn't die like Judith
hoped or expected. Lisa was moaning

336
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.079
on the ground and complained of being
in pain. I mean, obviously,

337
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:33.200
Judith kept shoving the needle into her
six times in the neck for more than

338
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:38.480
a half an hour before she accepted
the fact that these injections weren't working.

339
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.599
Lisa was burning and she was cold, but she wouldn't die. The girl

340
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:48.440
begged Judith to take her back to
the Harp's home. That's that girl's home

341
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.000
that she was at, but that
obviously wasn't going to happen. In the

342
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.359
end, Judith decided just to kill
the girl quickly, and she used a

343
00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:02.119
thirty eight pistol to shoot her three
times. One bullet went through Lisa's back

344
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:04.920
and out her left breast, which
was the shot that ended up killing her.

345
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.920
When Judith was certain she was dead, she shoved her over the edge

346
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.200
of the canyon. Judith would later
say that Alvin had masturbated as he looked

347
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:18.799
now you know, at the battered
corpse grows, but Judith's description of this

348
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:23.920
incident to the police indicated she'd been
alone. Alvin too, denied ever being

349
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:27.920
there, so I don't know if
this really happened, But Alvin also denied

350
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:33.720
raping Lisa before he finally said that
he had indeed had sex with her,

351
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.200
but only once. Only once.
It was difficult to know what the true

352
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.359
story was. He had even tried
claiming that Judith had masturbated him into ejaculation

353
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:48.799
and then put the sperm into Lisa
stop. Only when the police refused to

354
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.319
buy that did he admit to sexual
contact with Lisa. And before I tell

355
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:59.720
you more, we're going to take
a break. Five days later, Judith

356
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:03.319
went searching for another victim. This
is five days after they murdered Lisa.

357
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:07.240
She saw a woman at a pay
phone that appeared to be by herself,

358
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:11.240
but Judith was unable to get her
into the car like to go riding around

359
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.920
with her. That woman would remember
later for the police the strange feeling she

360
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:21.440
had when Judith approached her. Fortunately
for her, she had called her husband

361
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.960
to come get her and therefore didn't
need a ride. Soon afterward, Judith

362
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:32.559
spotted twenty two year old Janice Chapman, who was John Hancock's fiance and even

363
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:36.640
though she was with a man,
Judith thought, with Alvin's help, they

364
00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:38.720
would be able to manage this.
After all, they could get rid of

365
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:42.920
the guy and take the girl with
them. Judith pulled over invited the couple

366
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:48.240
to go with her. I told
you everything that happened the CB and blah

367
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.440
blah blah. So remember Janice.
I never told you what happened to her

368
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:56.960
after Judith shot John and left him. Yeah, I don't know anything about

369
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:02.759
what happened to Janis. She and
Alvin took Janice, who was mentally disabled.

370
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:07.240
I'm not sure how. So they
took her to a cheap motel nearby.

371
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.000
They raped her repeatedly and then shot
her. They drove her body to

372
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.319
a wooded area near a creek in
Dumpter, and that's what happened I know.

373
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:19.720
So it seems now that they've gotten
away with murder twice, you know

374
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:23.319
Lisa and now Janice. So they
were ready for another. But they needed

375
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:30.319
money first, so they went into
Murfreesborough and probably saying that wrong to pass

376
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.519
some of their forged money orders.
Thankfully, someone recognized them from a police

377
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.079
flyer and they were arrested. So
that's why they're sitting in jail in Tennessee.

378
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.039
Once in police custody, each began
to point the finger at each other

379
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:48.960
at exactly it seemed to be every
man for himself. Alvin was quick to

380
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.759
lawyer up, effectively shutting down the
interrogation, but his attorney urged him to

381
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:57.680
tell police what he knew. Alvin
claimed that Judith had instigated the crimes and

382
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:02.480
was responsible for eight murders, and
then, oh yeah, he had just

383
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:07.680
gone along with her. Oh wow, that's true. Love hed eight.

384
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.839
He said she liked to have power
over others, and in that moment he

385
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:15.640
didn't know what else to do.
He even went as far as say he

386
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.680
was afraid that his wife might kill
him. He's like this big dude,

387
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:23.839
right. He made sure to emphasize
how dangerous Judith, very dangerous really was.

388
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.960
I was scared from my life.
Yeah, suck off by the way

389
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:34.279
he raped Yeah, teenagers right.
Alvin apparently believed her tales about sexual abuse

390
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:38.119
at the ROYDC and thought she had
a good reason to be angry, but

391
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:42.279
he also gave the distinct impression that
he didn't want to commit I didn't want

392
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:48.279
to the rape and murders. I
absolutely didn't, right, but really this

393
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:52.519
wasn't quite Why don't you just walk
away? It's all bullshit. Alvin also

394
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.240
claimed that the weapons oblong to Judith
and that she had killed the two girls

395
00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:00.079
because of some rage that she carried
around with her. At first, he

396
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:03.799
do to stop nothing, right In
fact one, I'm Almo was in a

397
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.880
hotel. Yeah, days exactly with
them and they were raped. Yes,

398
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.920
yes, absolutely he participated. At
first. Judith did accept the blame,

399
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:18.559
exonerating Alvin every step of the way. In her own confession, she described

400
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.480
her final moments with Lisa and Janice, and she admitted to the fire bombing

401
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.359
and the shooting into Kenneth's house,
but she said she did that because Kenneth

402
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.160
Duley had raped her and that Linda
Adair had set it up. But it

403
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:33.839
didn't matter what either of them said
or told police, because the wait,

404
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:38.200
those are the people from the RYDC. Yeah, okay, that's why she

405
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:42.400
was angry with them. It didn't
matter what either of them said or told

406
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:47.039
the police, because they would both
change their minds and their stories several times.

407
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:52.599
So yeah, not to mention things
would change after getting lawyers. In

408
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.799
preparing for trial, of course,
Alvin told authorities how Judith had killed Janis

409
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.000
Chapman and gave directions to where they
could find the body. He even drew

410
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.240
a map, implicating himself at least
as an accomplice it wasn't long before they

411
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:10.279
recovered Janice's decomposing corpse. She had
been raped, shot to death, and

412
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:15.119
dumped in a wilderness area, just
as he described. So now they had

413
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.519
two murders and two suspects. It
would seem to be cut and dry,

414
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.119
but it wasn't. After all,
these crimes, the murder, rape,

415
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.279
and assault had all been committed in
different counties and in some cases different states.

416
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:32.079
Not to mention, the evidence against
Alvin was kind of weak except for

417
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:36.640
the rape. I know they could
get him for Janice's murder, but not

418
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:41.160
Lisa's. Okay, well that's one. Yeah. Alvin remained in Tennessee and

419
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.640
pled guilty to his part in the
kidnap murder of Janis Chapman in exchange for

420
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.559
life in prison. Jabith, on
the other hand, faced first degree murder

421
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.920
charges in Alabama for the murder of
Lisa Milliken, and with her confession,

422
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.799
they had a good case against her. She was extradited there for trial with

423
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:02.200
possible death penalty hanging over her.
Had it. Yeah. Judge Randall Cole

424
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:08.319
presided over the proceedings. Alabama had
a three count indictment against her murder,

425
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:14.559
abduction with the intent to harm and
abduction with the intent to terrorize. Her

426
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:21.559
defense relied heavily on the insanity plea
based on battered woman. I knew it.

427
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.680
I knew it. She's not going
to say that she went through psychiatric

428
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:30.200
examinations but proved to be competent enough
to stand trial. Which there's a difference

429
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:35.519
between being influenced, yes, and
being battered, right exactly. Even so,

430
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.359
her defense put their bast foot forward
and claiming that Judith was a pawn

431
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:43.279
for Alvin and that he had beat
her into doing the things he wanted,

432
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:47.680
like capturing and raping young girls.
The tree beater, not that I've ever

433
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.759
heard. No. The trial began
two months later after these arrests in the

434
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:58.680
extradition, and Judith's defense put everything
into the fact that Alvin controlled Judith and

435
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:02.319
made her do his dirty. They
even brought in Alvin's ex wife to describe

436
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:07.000
her years of alleged abuse in Alvin's
hands, and she claimed to have many

437
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:09.759
scars from those days. And that
might be true, maybe, but I'm

438
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:14.720
not gonna kidnap some girl, I
know, right, I mean I don't

439
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:19.039
know for days and kill her and
kill a guy. Yeah, And so

440
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:22.440
now it's Judith's turn to take this. I'd rather just die than do those

441
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:24.279
things. I mean some people,
I guess, I don't know, Okay.

442
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.000
She was grilled for four days.
She went into extravagant detail about being

443
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:35.200
a victim and being definitely afraid of
her husband, Alvin. She claimed that

444
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:37.079
if she hadn't done what he wanted, then he would have killed her.

445
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:42.319
It would be true. Maybe.
According to her, everything from assault to

446
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:46.240
murder had been done completely under his
direction. Apparently he was the master mind

447
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:52.359
behind everything. However, everything Judith
was saying contradicted everything she had written to

448
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.160
Alvin. And you know what,
she's still fucking them like they were still

449
00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:02.279
together, making the sweet love right
and all that come on. When the

450
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:08.039
prosecution presented their case, John Hancock
testified as well as three different girls that

451
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:13.199
Judith tried to pick up but she
was unsuccessful in doing so. And all

452
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:16.039
three of these girls said there was
no sign of a man anywhere when these

453
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:21.039
incident took place, But that doesn't
mean to them control over maybe not to

454
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:23.760
mention. A psychiatrist came on the
scene and talked about how Judith had known

455
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:28.280
the difference between right and wrong at
the time of the offense, and she

456
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:31.480
had consciously decided to commit murder.
Even if she was brainwashed, she still

457
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:36.280
hit a choice, and the psychiatrist
stood firm on that statement. It's true,

458
00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:39.400
so now both sides closer cases.
And the judge gave the instructions to

459
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:44.159
the jury. The jury received the
case on March twenty first, nineteen eighty

460
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:46.360
three, fairly late in the afternoon, and by the next morning they had

461
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:51.960
reached a verdict. They found Judith
and Neely guilty of the kidnap and murder

462
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:55.400
of Lisa Milliken, and they recommended
that she be sentenced to life in prison.

463
00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.599
I can see that rather than giving
her the death penalty right eighteen.

464
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:05.320
By the way, Despite this recommendation, sentencing was up to Judge Cole,

465
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:10.280
and he had written two opinions.
Ultimately, he decided that while Judith was

466
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.679
young, she was also brazen and
cruel. He thought the crimes had been

467
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:20.719
heinous and atrocious beyond which is common
to most capital cases, and sentenced turned

468
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.639
to death. Holy shit. Yeah. When Judith heard this, she began

469
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:30.960
to cry Wow. He usurped jury
that she's going I'm gonna put her in

470
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:36.599
death row, not wanting a second
death sentence in another state. Judith ended

471
00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:40.039
up leading guilty to the kidnap and
murder of Janis Chapman in Tennessee, and

472
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:45.400
she received a life sentence for that
crime. Then she got ten years for

473
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:50.239
the shooting of John Hancock. It
was her deal with Tennessee that spurred Alvin

474
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:53.559
to finalize his own plea deal.
Judith became the youngest woman to have been

475
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:59.159
sentenced to death in Alabama. In
a nineteen eighty three prison interview, she

476
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:04.480
reportedly quote, I pray for strength. I don't ask God for me not

477
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:07.639
to be electrocuted. I just asked
that if I'm going to be electrocuted,

478
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.920
to give me strength to go through
it. End quote. Its kind of

479
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:15.559
not going to have a choice,
I know. Judith appealed to get a

480
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:19.400
new trial, but in March nineteen
eighty seven, the US Supreme Court rejected

481
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.360
the appeal. Less than two years
later, they let her death sentence stand.

482
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:28.159
She converted to Christianity. While she
was in prison. She apparently developed

483
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:31.280
a relationship with another woman who,
on May twenty first, nineteen ninety four,

484
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:36.960
was found dead at her home.
She had shot herself. What she

485
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:40.119
did this relationship with this other woman
and she was found dead. She had

486
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:46.800
shot herself, leaving photographs and a
cassette recording of her end Judith's fatal plan.

487
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:52.360
Judith was found in her cell,
her wrists slashed with a disposable razor,

488
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:57.800
but she survived. So it's going
to be murder suicide or suicide suicide

489
00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:02.880
kind of thing. Then there was
more news. Alabama Governor Fob James decided

490
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:07.800
that Judith didn't deserve to die for
her crimes. Before he left office,

491
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:13.639
he signed an order to commute her
sentence to life in prison without the possibility

492
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:17.280
of parole. This decision caused an
outcry, so he defended his decision,

493
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:22.039
stating he had given it long consideration
and went through many documents, including letters

494
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.840
pleading with him to reconsider Judath's case. The jury, he noted, had

495
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:29.719
given her a life sentence, and
it was the judge that had held for

496
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:32.960
the death sentence. Governor James said
that since the jury who had seen all

497
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:38.280
the evidence, had decided on leniency
and they had been chosen as Judith's peers,

498
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:43.159
their recommendation was the proper one to
follow. In response to the governor

499
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:46.519
commuting Judith's sentence, lawmakers in two
thousand and three passed the law that death

500
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:52.199
row inmates who had their sentences commuted
shall not be eligible for parole. Judaths

501
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:58.599
attorney filed the lawsuit challenging the statute
in its retroactive application to her case.

502
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.719
The law was ruled institutional in March
of twenty eighteen, leading to her first

503
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:07.840
parole hearing in May of twenty eighteen, where the Alabama Board of Pardons took

504
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:15.000
only fifty five seconds to deny her
parole. However, even if Judith is

505
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.320
granted parole, she would likely be
arrested by Georgia authorities to serve a time

506
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.840
for a consecutive life sentence in the
rape and murder of Janis Chapman. All

507
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.199
of them. What the fuck?
What's the point? I know? She

508
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:29.000
is set to see the parole board
again this month May of twenty twenty three.

509
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:32.679
Currently, she is the second longest
serving female death row inmate in the

510
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:37.159
country. That sucks in cause you're
wondering what happened to Alvin. I would

511
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:39.599
like to know he died in prison
in two thousand and five. Oh,

512
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:44.960
how I don't know. He just
died. He just died. He wasn't

513
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:46.519
old. No, well, he's
twelve years older than her. No,

514
00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:51.760
he wasn't the old because at home, Karma's a bitch. Yeah, Kara's

515
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:57.559
a bitch, and so is he. He is a bitch. So that

516
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:01.400
is my awful story of Alvin and
Judith Neely. I never heard that.

517
00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:06.639
I knew that she was the youngest
person to be sentenced to death row.

518
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:09.639
Maybe if i'd like saw our picture, maybe I would know. But I

519
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:14.840
would just like to do what Neely
and neal e L L E Y.

520
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:19.400
I would like to ask everyone to
hit the subscriber follow button if you haven't.

521
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:22.840
I don't like her, No,
I'm just thinking at the pictures.

522
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.800
I don't like her. And if
you would like to hear more episodes that

523
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:30.239
we have not released to the public, please check out Patreon dot com,

524
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:34.800
slash t n T crimes, or
go to our website and there's information there

525
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:39.320
YEP Crimes and Consequences dot com and
you would not only get additional episodes,

526
00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:45.119
but you would also get our weekly
free episodes early release and and free YEP.

527
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:47.440
Absolutely. If you don't want to
go there and you are listening on

528
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:52.719
your Apple podcast app iPhone, I
mean, you've got so many options.

529
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:57.559
You can just subscribe through the Apple
podcast app and you would get the same

530
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:01.280
episodes. Why not just do it? We are on Facebook and Instagram at

531
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:06.400
hardcore true crime, and I think
that's probably It's good enough. That's good

532
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.880
enough. We have shout outs and
I even write them now. No,

533
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:12.039
so we have to do it next
time, all right, all right until

534
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.119
our next episode, don't kill each
other. Bye bye,