You're listening to the paranorl UK Radio network and this is six Degrees of John
Keel. Hello and welcome to the six Degrees of John Keele podcast. I'm
your host, Barbara and with me tonight is Steve Ward. Again. It's
been a while since I've talked with Steve, but tonight we're going to talk
about dog Man, like panthropy, Wolfman, all sorts of strange sightings in
Great Britain in the United States, h recent research, and we're also going
to look back at Linda Godfrey, who really I think is the one in
America who brought dog Man to everybody's consciousness. How you doing, Steve,
I'm doing really good. Excellent, excellent. You have Mothman looking over your
shoulder, making sure that you know I do. You're full of the strangeness.
There he is. If I hold my head just right, it looks
like I've got you in can I know? That was the first thing I
saw when when you popped on and I was like, what does he have
on his head? So I'm glad to know it's just mothman, you know,
creeping on you. No, just a two dimensional moth man. Well,
excellent. So where do you want to start with this because you know
more about dog man and all of this stuff than I do. Well,
I guess I'll just start with You know, I was I heard Linda Godfrey
on I think it was the Jeff Ren Show this before I think around the
time of her public her first publication, The Beast of Bray Road. I
don't know if it had been out yet or whatever, but it's I think
it must have. But that's what made me go and order the book and
check it out. And you know, she and i'd heard a couple I've
heard a couple of reports prior to that of something that they weren't calling a
dog man at that time, but other people had encountered something like that.
So I became fascinated by it, and I read I read her book,
the uh the Beast of Bray Road, and you know, it gives a
basic recounting of the sightings of this upright canid and the Elkhorn, Wisconsin area,
especially along Bray Road. And I have been out to Bray Road a
couple of times and it's only about four and a half miles long, and
it was kind of hard to find, you know, it's kind of it's
a little bit east of Elkhorn, and it's just it's pretty much there's not
much in the way of woods there or anything. It's pretty open. And
now there's a guy who actually has a dog man carving in his front yard.
That's more in more recent years. But people are stopping on the road
all the time and taking pictures, so it's pretty cool now. He hasn't
he claimed, he hasn't seen it himself. He's actually a little bit further
down the road than actually people see it. But we can get into that
later because that'll we'll pick up with Lee Hample's farm, who has had all
kinds of activity there and his farm is actually just a stone's throw from Bray
Road. But my first time meeting Linda was in two thousand and seven.
I went to Troy Taylor's Weird Winter event the cater No See Yeah, to
cater Illinois, and it was the idea was to have the weird book authors
there. The two guys I can't remember their name, but started the Weird
Books series from New Jersey I think were there. Linda was there because she
had written one on Michigan. I think she contributed to that, and there
was some other other weird authors. There a lot of people. About half
the people that signed up didn't show up because it was a pretty bad They've
been a pretty bad snowstorm. But I traked down from Michigan when I was
living there at the time anyway, and it was a really it was a
good event. And what I remember is I was the one in the audience
that asked her about updates about the Michigan dog Man. She was talking about
other things at the time. And the gang from Ghostly Talk. I've been
on their show a few times, and they actually lived a few suburbs from
where I grew up, so we become good friends. But they were up
in the balcony, and later on I heard about them talking about on the
show. They were having all kinds of weird activity going on. This is
supposed to be a haunted theater that we were at. I don't remember the
name of it, but there was weird stuff going on up there on the
bellki. Of course I'm downstairs, don't I didn't see anything. Nothing touched
me, you know, nothing creepy happened. Never does. And and later
on they had Linda Godfrey on and they were talking to her and she was
wondering if it was something to do with her father, because she said it
was the anniversary of I can't remember if it was his passing or his birthday,
and she was wondering if she was going to get some kind of a
message or signed from him. So she wondered if that disturbance was anything to
do with him trying to make contact. So that was that was kind of
cool, but she was she signed my She her second book was out at
that time, called The Honey of the American Werewolf, and so she kindly
signed that for me. And that's the first. So I saw her several
times after that at the Michigan peracn the Van Meet or Visitor Festival, and
there's this great picture. I had this shirt made up called braved Bray Road,
because actually I did brave Bray Road. I parked in a I went
to Elkhorn. You can't park on Bray Road. They won't They'll come and
tow you away. They don't put up with that nonsense. So I parked
in a in a parking lot about half a mile away from the entrance of
Bray Road, and I hiked it and I went. I only got about
a I was, I guess it was more like a Yeah, it was
about a half mile there, and I only I only went in about a
mile and a half and then turned back, so the whole whole ordeal was
only four miles. But you know, my legs were I had my winter
legs and I hadn't been exercising much, so they were a little rubbery afterwards.
But so that was kind of fun. It was a nice day,
and of course I didn't experience anything, but so I had this T shirt
made up braved Bray Road, this great picture of me standing next to her
husband Steve and Linda at the Van Meter Visitor Festival all together. And then
later on I made a couple of these posters that were sort of tributes to
the old UFO Report magazine. I called it Ufo Review and with a bunch
of bogus articles, and it's very colorful, and one is the theme is
the Mothman Festival and the other is the Van Meter Visitor Festival. And so
I have all kinds of names of friends around there making up bogus articles and
a lot of humor. I had Chad Lewis and Kevin Nelson looking like men
in Black, and I had Joelina who was the librarian there that the article
was that she is the one that silenced the men in black rather than the
other way around. So just a lot of fun stuff like that. And
a good friend of mine, Brandy she I made her archaeologist and she discovered
giant skulls and dubuque, so that was that was kind of funny too,
had these big purple skulls on there. But the best was I took that
picture of me, Linda and Steve, and uh I made it. I
called it Brai Road Tours and uh, you know, putting on the dog
with Linda Godfrey. And of course the idea was Steve would be the bus
driver. I'd be the guy that would count the number of people that got
off at bray rode him get back on. And Linda, of course was
a tour guide. So it was like dial one eight hundred girl, are
you know anyway it was. It was just a lot of fun to do.
And uh I had a copy for her, but she didn't wasn't able
to make that. Uh that one uh band meeter uh uh conference and then
one was shut down because of COVID. I think so I never got in
contact with her again, but yeah, she was, Uh, I just
have really good memories of her. And I might mention that book, Honey,
the American Wearable. There's a really interesting passage in there. There's a
book called Wisconsin Mounds and it deals with the effigy mounds in southern Wisconsin.
And she was looking at that. She had a cluster map of these dog
man sightings in that one area of Wisconsin, and she noticed that they were
clustering around certain types of effigy mounds, and most notably panther mounds and water
spirit mounds. Now, if you imagine a panther mound, it is very
very simple, you know, you got the if you drew it an outline
of the animal of a panther, you'd have the head, a little bit
for the ears and the legs and so forth, and a short tail.
The water spirit mounds seemed to be a little bit smaller, but would characterize
them with like a long narrow tail. And for some reason, and she
just seemed she found that they were these sightings were clustering around these effigy mounds,
and uh, you know, she hadn't really drawn any conclusions from that,
but she thought it was. It was probably significant somehow, I think,
uh, I think if you go back, I think there's a tradition
that the uh something about these dog men or the or these these spirits or
whatever guarding the mounds or whatever. I'm not really well bruised on that,
but uh so, uh yeah, that was That's what's what started me off.
Was uh, you know, I've bought all her books since then,
and I haven't read all of them all the way through, but I perused
and I've heard some of them on audible and so forth, and I've been
able to talk to her at length about some of her ideas. So uh
yeah, she really, uh she really, you know. And it turned
out that I'm sure you're probably familiar with dog man encounters radio condition, right.
Uh. There's just a lot of people that once this was sort of
out of the bag, people will said, well, you know what,
twenty years ago, I saw something really weird, and it was almost like
it was almost like it began all right to have a big foot encounter.
But man, if you saw an upright canaan along the road, you just
kept your mouth shut because that's just went way over the way over the line.
So and another thing that you know, as you know, I recently
talked to Paul Sinclair. I got to be on his two hour stream a
couple of weeks ago, and then he agreed to be on my show.
And this guy is just just fascinating. I mean, you could you could
actually just take a nap and let him talk because he's just endlessly fascinating and
you don't have to, you know, keep the conversation going. He just
does it. And he talks a lot about he's more comfortable with the term
werewolf, I think, and he talks a lot about the Flixton werewolf and
how far back it goes. He there's like encounters that go back apparently hundreds
of years. So whatever this thing is seems to be global, and Linda
was getting reports from all over the world after a while as well. But
one thing that it seems to characterize this is the feeling of evil, feeling
of negativity, and I haven't really heard that with bigfoot encounters and some other
cryptid encounters. So there's something, you know, I mean, I tend
to think as a as Achillian that perhaps a lot of these things are coming
from the same soup, so to speak. You just manifesting in different ways.
But there seems to be some kind of a distinction between dog man encounters
and some other cryptids. Yeah, yeah, you know, I like I
like what you say when when you say, say, hey, Bigfoot's okay.
You know, in the nineteen seventies there was all these bigfoot sightings,
and it got to be kind of okay to say that because lots of people
were saying, well, then maybe there's you know, an unknown ape running
around in the woods in North America. That's okay, you know, but
you know, as soon as the woo woo people like me come in and
go, you know, the there's an awful lot of descriptions of it's not
all the same kind of look like a species would generally be. You know,
that's kind of kind of strange. And and you know, footprints that
start in the middle of a mud puddle in a muddy field and then walk
for like three yards and then disappear again when it's uniformly muddy. That's pretty
suspicious to me. But the boggle threshold for for I guess normal people,
not people like you and I is we are not having wolf man in our
backyard. We are not having that that is not to be talked about.
We're not gonna We're not you know, we'll we'll put up with Bigfoot,
but we're not gonna talk about an upright cannid. And uh, that's that's
just that's just no, we're not gonna have it. So I find that
really interesting that it seems that the boggle threshold for dog man has has loosened
a little bit. People are now going, well, you know, maybe
there is something to it because so many people have seen it for so long.
Right, it's taken a while, but uh, and you know,
and so many of these encounters start out where they just thought it was a
big, mangy dog. Yeah, and it stands up on two legs.
I mean, that's just gotta be freaky. Oh yeah, yeah. And
then there's the what the berewolf people have seen a couple of times something some
kind of a weird uh. I think Linda did a report on one.
I think it was in Michigan. This thing came up. He called it
a I think a what was it a A? I think he called it
a berewolfers or something. It had bear in the name, and it came
and it stole a deer out of the back of his truck and walked away
with it, and like he's gonna go argue about that. You know,
you know what, I can shoot another deer. I tag that deer and
it's it's mine. But you know, I'm not going to argue with mister
berewolf. Yeah, he had to have been awfully big to have a combination
of those two in his name. And where do these things come from?
This big beast? I mean, it's an area that was somewhat rural,
but not completely. There was a lot it was. It was a fish
lake, I think, and uh, you know it's just an under one
of these things where they show up and they just appeer. Yeah, they're
very phist. They interact with the environment and just then grabbed a deer and
you know it wasn't seen again. So you know. But and even you
know, in another one of Linda's books, I mean, just to compet
confound this thing further. It was let's see nineteen ninety four. The guy
said he thought it was on Route eighty one. Mike Moran and he's driving
along just a two lane. You probably know this story. Oh I remember
his name. He sees the light going through the woods and he thinks it's
going to be some crazy dude, this is night on a four wheeler or
whatever. And he's cruising along and he's going to come up to the road
and there's a drop off about eight or six or eight feet, and he's
wondering, how the heck he's going to get this ATV down that that you
know, that dip, and all of a sudden, now I don't it's
not clear if this thing was a ball, just a ball of light,
or if this creature was glowing, because it was kind of glowing when it
came across the road, but he saw a dog man an upright hated hit
the road. Three steps, it was across the road and then it was
gone. So we've heard a lot of stories about balls of light transforming into
something that goes kind of goes back to Paul Devereaux in Earthlight Revelation, where
he taught he coined the term proto entity where and he gives a lot of
examples of balls of light or something that looks like a craft or whatever,
but then it morphs into the entity or whatever. It's like the vehicle or
the the orb or whatever is inseparable from the being somehow. Yeah. And
there's even an old mothman encounter that's kind of like that from Kent, England,
almost three days to the Chase of the Mallets and Scarberries down Route sixty
two and November fifteenth. It was three years before in sixty three, and
these kids were coming back from a dance and they saw this ball of light
go down behind a grove of trees and then go out, and then the
light appeared again and then went out, and then they saw this creature which
was the closest thing to the point pleasant mothman I've ever heard of, because
it looked like it didn't have a head, it had bat like wings,
and it kind of shuffled along like the mothman. There's been so many other
winged creatures or whatever that people want to dub mothman, and I get very
territorial. Sometimes it's like, hey, that's not the point pleasant mothman,
damn it, you know I know what that is. Yeah, Yeah,
I think the guy in the pecan tree down in Texas comes close to the
winged man thing that a family sitting on a porch saw, Okay, but
it didn't have have the it had a head. You know, it looked
like a man with wings, but he was gray. And he was spooky
obviously because people shouldn't have wings and be flying around. But I don't think
he had the glowing eyes. I just think, yeah, well, you
know, maybe he didn't need it because he just had been a ball of
flight. So you know, one of the things that I really find fascinating
about these upright canid beings is that almost every culture has a story about shape
shifting and humans shape shifting into animals, and wolves are one of the most
common ones. And psychologically, I wonder if that's because humans have partnered with
dogs so strongly. Like there are people archaeologists and anthropologists who say that,
you know, humanity may not have ever really learned agriculture without dogs because we
would have had no really good way to round up herds of domesticated animals,
right, and you know, because I mean, people can run for a
long time, but you know, dogs are way better at that. And
you know, and dogs came from wolves, and we know that. I
think even you know, even after we'd had dogs for you know, quite
some time before we started writing a lot of stuff down. I'm sure everybody
realized that those dogs originally were those wolves, and humans were afraid of wolves.
Now, I want to know if if we were afraid of wolves because
we lived closer to the outside, you know, at one time, and
that's what made us afraid of them, because you know, zoologists will just
tell you now that most wolves will never approach a human right there. They
are more afraid of us than we are of them. So where did this
image, this fearsome beast, this horrifying creature come from? And I find
that interesting if it's maybe the dog is the is the the good cannid,
and then the wolf is the shadow being, just like humans have shadows,
right, you know, shadow sides. Maybe that's the shadow side of a
dog. Yeah, I don't know. I was fascinated by that when I
was a kid. I actually a few times I went to the library to
research. I got the Encyclopedia Britannica out and to learn about werewolves, and
it talked about how, you know, sometimes people would wear some kind of
a belt or garment, and sometimes they would use some kind of magical herbs
or whatever. It wasn't quite the lawn chaining werewolf, you know. The
Now for the most part, when people are talking about these these dog man
creatures are not talking about transformation. But Linda has a couple every once in
a while, she's got a story in there about somebody that claims to have
seen a transformation. Now that's one of those areas where I kind of hit
a wall and I'm kind of like the uh, the people that hit a
wall with John Keel or some of the things accept, you know, and
I think, well, maybe maybe I'm not being open enough. But that's
that's a real tough one one to accept a physical transformation. Of course,
we have the the lore of the skin Walker, which is supposed to do
that. And you wonder if that's uh, if it's if it's a physical
transformation, if it's more of a projection of something. I don't know,
but I yeah, I don't know. That's a that's a good point.
I don't know why. Uh you know, uh, I guess there were
other animals that they believe people could change into. Yeah, but but yeah,
the wolf seemed to be the uh, the prominent one that Yeah,
yeah, I don't necessarily Well, okay, so you went to the library
to research where wolves they did the same thing and I was faster say about
it. I know it says that were weird, really weird. But I
remember reading about the the disease of lycanthropy. Oh yeah, where it's a
mental disease where you believe that you have become a beast, usually a wolf,
And I thought that was so fascinating. And there are cases of men
who would do these rituals like a belt. You had an enchanted belt and
you put it on it was made of wolf skin and then you could turn
into a wolf. But there are cases of men who had like aanthropy,
or believed they had done these rituals correctly, and they would go out and
kill other people, and some of them were cannibals. And this is all
written up in European history. So I'm so excited that I learned about this.
I was spending the weekend with my grandparents and we sit down to lunch.
And Grandma made three hot meals a day, so she was she was
busy all the time. But you know, we sit down and I said,
Grandpa, guess what I learned about And he said what? And I
said, did you know there's a disease called like caanthropy? And then dah
da da da da. I started talking about how they, you know,
attack people, and there are these woodcut illustrations and I described them and he
was He just looks at me and he went, can this this is not
something to talk about while we eat? And I said why, He's just
just no. And it's not like he was squeamish. She was a farmer,
you know, I helped him butcher animals. So I was kind of
like, what's wrong with him? And then I said, do you want
to hear about porphyria? And he said no, I don't. Well,
there's there's another disease. There was a case in uh oh, England.
I can't can't pull up the details, but there's some kind of an ailment
where people grow all kinds of hair on their faces called yeah, and I
think that some of those some people were kind of locked away and seen every
once in a while, and that would give rise to the belief of the
local werewolf. Yeah, that's a genetic disorder. And uh I think it
was. The King of Spain had a person in his retinue who was afflicted
with that. It was a woman and you know, there are portraits painted
of her with this long hair on her face and hands, but she's wearing
the really beautiful court gown and and he got for her a good marriage.
Actually it was the queen who did that, but yeah, it was a
thing, and so people people would see that and think that that was a
were wolf. But as you said, Paul Sinclair was talking about a tradition
in England of people having seen these these upright canids going back one hundred years,
hundreds of years, right. And he's got this great documentary called wolf
Lands. And I should say that he has four books out called Truth Proof,
the Truth That Leaves No Proof, four volumes, and one called Night
People I Believe, which is autobiographical. And tell people avoid Amazon US and
UK. They're going to third party pirates. I'm fine with capitalism, but
man, these guys are gouging to death. If you go, you can.
I don't have the actual website, but if you google Paul Sinclair Books
UK, I think you'll find where you can buy his books direct from the
UK. The shipping might be a little pricey, but the price of the
books are going to be reasonable. And I've ordered the fourth Truth Proof and
the Night People because it wasn't didn't show it available in anything other than kindle
here, and I'd love to have the book in my hands, so those
are on the way. And I've also ordered a hard copy of the wolf
Lands documentary, but you can stream that for just a few bucks on Amazon
US or Amazon UK. And it's absolutely I told Paul how well it was
done. The production values are amazing, the editing, the music composed for
it, and the way the narrative unfolds. He interviews several people that have
had encounters with this beast, whatever it is, and again Paul's more comfortable
with calling it a werewolm, and he takes you around to these people and
he jumps back and forth to the different witnesses, and it's with the purpose
of showing the patterns that are there, the similarities. And when you see
these people talk about their experiences, they were terrified, These are these are
very sincere people, and it's it's just so well done. It's so atmospheric.
Uh, It's it's like kind of like watching a horror movie, you
know, a well done horror movie, but it's it's based on something real
and I hardly recommend people watch it or or order it. And it's just
again, just amazingly well put together. Yeah. Yeah, he's a good
writer. I've read Truth Proof up to three and The Night People. I
was dumb and read The Night People first. It was super creepy and and
it boy was it creepy. So you know, I was I took notes
in it for for my research, and you know, I was just kind
of like, oh my god, I'm afraid of the other ones. But
they're much less. I mean, they're still fascinating. They're about his uh
encounters and investigations of UFOs in Yorkshire and the surrounding areas up in the north
of England. But it isn't as scary. I mean, yeah, there's
a couple of times when you when it's scary and you're like, oh,
well, okay, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have read this at night.
I'm dumb. But well, he talks about the Flixton werewolf, he talks
about large black panthersh He's chronicled and even photographed a lot of strange lights orbs
on the land and out to sea. Uh. And these are not you
know, uh lanterns, Chinese lanterns or or flares or anything like that,
and it just you're just really well told. I mean you feel like you're
you're there with him on the cliffs experiencing this, you know. Yeah,
and then he in his books, he uh he uh, he has just
a very nice approach with people, and he's made all kinds of inroads.
Uh. He can go to some of the uh uh captains that run boats
and he can look at their logs, you know, and and and see
what they've gone out to perform a rescue or whatever. And he talks about
missing people out of it. It is like us of David Politis missing four
one one and this is north and East Yorkshire and uh, you know,
get concentrated in a relatively small area, but incredibly active and uh, you
know, he's just he just has such a great way with him with himself.
He's just such a down to earth guy. Yeah, and uh,
just very very credible. Oh yeah, I think so too. And there
are lights on and in the water too and under the water. Well it
talks about like a triangle, yeah, with the light on each corner just
under the water. Yeah. And then he says it's so creepy, yes,
And he says, in one case there were some kind of UFOs whoever
plunging into the water, but it was shadow there even at high tide.
It didn't make any sense. You know, where were they going, right,
why did they disappear? It's not that far down. Yeah, yeah,
I really like his books and and he there are also lots of other
weird you know, there's some strange humanoids and and just all kinds of stuff
happening. And it's animal mutilations. Oh yes, they're sheep. A lot
a lot of sheep mutilations, and some seem to be surgical. You know
that people want to blame it on these large black panthers, but it doesn't
always make sense. And oftentimes, just like other sometimes bigfoot reports where animals
are slaughtered chickens or whatever, they're not eating, they're just slaughtered. Yeah.
Yeah, it's like like Keel when he talked about uh, you know,
these things sort of coming into existence, sort of acting like animals while
they're here, and then melting away. Yeah. Yeah, Like they are
physical for a very short period of time, right, and they leave physical
traces, but then they just the traces just end, the footprints end,
the you know, it doesn't make sense the animal you know, disappearances or
mutilations stop right, And yeah, it's it's disturbing. All of it's very
disturbing. And Paul's very open. I mean a lot of times you'll question,
you know, how can this be a physical animal? You know why
when because it kind of disappears, it goes away. Are we dealing with
something another type of reality that we step into or whatever. So he's always
asking these questions and trying to deal with the reality of the way these things
exist and manifest. Yeah, yeah, it's he's a very very thorough researcher.
And you're right. I like the way that he writes because it's very
immediate, so you can you can feel and and see. His descriptive ability
is very strong. I really really enjoy his work. So eventually I'm going
to have to have him on the on the podcast. Yeah, you'll you'll,
like I say, you can probably go just take a nap and listen
to it later because he's he's just so good. You know, you don't
have to prompt him. You know, I had I wanted to stop him
every once in a while because I had a question. But uh, there's
so there's a uh just so many he had this uh, this one incident
I won't go into it too much. I want people to uh listen to
him tell it or read the book. But in the first book, remember
he has that weird he and his wife encounter that weird man that bicycle.
Yep, yes, yep, yes. He said, you're bringing down the
light. Yeah, you're you're you're angering people or whatever. And so I
got Paul to tell that story towards the end of the the interview and I
said, well, and this guy was so weird, and I said,
well, Paul, you are bringing down the light and you're making a lot
of people angry, you know, officialdom and even the average person that doesn't
want to deal with this. So it's kind of funny that this whoever this
dude was, he was right on the mark because that's what Paul has been
doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will definitely have him tell that
story because that was what I was thinking of when I said the strange humanoids
or whatever's you know. Although he did have the experience with his cousin and
the dude at the rock when he was a kid, and that was see
so creepy. Yeah yeah. And then there was a classic man in black
encounter with I don't remember the guy's name, but a friend and colleague of
his. The guy had seen some kind of a UFO or light, and
these dudes came to the door with no eyebrows, addressed like classic men in
black, telling him he's got to stop his research. And I'm thinking,
you know, every once in a while you come across you know who,
Linde sigmund Is, Yeah, okay. More she came forward more recently with
her a mothman sighting from well, it was April of sixty seven, I
think she said she was about sixteen, and she and her boyfriend were sitting
on the front of the hood of a car watching the stars. They saw
this orb show up, and then they saw another one. He decided,
I'm really abbreaviating this. He wanted to get the heck out of there.
And they're driving away and she's looking out out the window and she sees this
mothmanlike creature next to one of these lights. And the thing is that she
even had missing time. But the sort of the PostScript to all this was
the beginning of December. The same December sixty seven when the bridge collapsed.
In twenty fifteen, and that's coming up the anniversary is coming up in a
few days. That's just taping. She was downtown Point Pleasant and she saw
this strange man standing outside a building and he was in classic, you know,
fedora black clothes. And she got closer she noticed his skin was had
a weird pallor had a weird coloring, and it was wearing sunglasses at night.
And then she looked down the street and there was another one of these
guys leaning up against a light pole. And I think, you know it
was And I said, when did you? When did this click as to
what this was? It was wasn't until she read the mock Band Prophecies by
John Keel some time later that she thought, oh my god, that's what
I experienced. So it's weird because we tend to want to try to explain
these as you know, just government types or just some creep that was hanging
out, you know and causing trouble. But man, you know, you
get into some of these encounters and there's something just totally bizarre there that's that's
almost incomprehensible. Yeah, yeah, the the unearthly power or the lack of
eyebrows, kind of weirdly plastic looking skin like really artificially smooth looking, you
know, because you guys, you don't like, you know, fix your
pores and stuff. You just you just wash your face and you go right.
And I do the same thing. But you know, most men don't
have that perfectly smooth skin, you know, And that is something that I
would notice immediately. I mean, they all have that kind of uncanny Valley
look. It's like, well, they're they're like a guy. They look
like a guy, they look like a and then they get too close and
then you go, wait a minute, yeah something, and then the the
sometimes the movements the way that they just can't And I even wondered, I
think due to some of Nick Redford's research, I wondered if some of these
these characters were actually sent out by a faction of the government to behave in
strange ways to kind of throw people off. I mean, the government does
all kinds of bizarre tests and yeah and schemes that they eventually forget about or
whatever. But I just wonder if they sent out maybe hundreds of these clowns
to act weird and figuring that some of them would be picked up into the
lore. But that doesn't explain everything, No, it doesn't. It doesn't.
So have there been any kind of men in black encounters that go with
dog man sightings or wolfman sightings? Oh, well, that's a good question.
Not that I know of. They seem to have shown up with some
of the bigfoot reports. If you look at the Stan Gordon silent invasion,
there were men that showed up and seeming to destroy evidence. And there was
that crazy case where the guy took a shot. He didn't actually shoot them,
he was a used tracer of the shells over these bizarre looking bigfoots after
seeing this strange craft seemingly to land and uh, it was so crazy.
The the uh, the local uh state state cop actually saw one of them
in the dark and uh later on standing his team came out. This guy
had a weird spell and collapsed and uh he was growling and everything, and
yeah, he thought he was possessing him or something. But he had a
he had a vision of a man in a cloak and had all kinds of
uh, had all kinds of predictions, but he didn't remember any of it.
I mean, it's it's just more complicated than that. But you had
strange lights, you had these bigfoot creatures that that seemed to vanish. But
then afterwards, uh, they stand in his team wanted to put him under
hypnosis, and they thought, well, with that weird spell he had,
maybe we better just leave it alone for a while. And I think it
was as much as two years later they came to him and they said,
would you mind if we put you under hypnosis during that? And he said,
what do you mean. You guys came back two weeks later and a
man dressed like an Air Force officer and a man in playing clothes implied apparently
they were Stan's team, and they put him other hypnosis, said we'll get
back to you. Of course they didn't, and he said they even showed
him this, this portfolio with photographs of bigfoot like creatures and UFOs. At
least this is what he claimed. They wanted to know if what he saw
looked like any of these pictures. So, you know, I don't know
what to make of that, but that's sort of your you know, key
you talk about the man in black as a generic term, not necessarily,
you know, in dressed in the black garbe. But so, yeah,
this is a well, that's a good question. I wouldn't be surprised if
there there have been some, but you know, was that weird case and
the Linda talks about in the beginning of the Beesterbury Road where I think it's
Lori and Drezzy was one of the original witnesses that brought it to Linda's attention,
And then she was writing for the week was a little local newspaper,
and she went to the local sheriff and found out he had a file that
said werewolf because he'd been getting these reports. But she was talking to John
andres No John, I can't think it was his last name, but he
was at the animal control officer, and she thought she had the impression that
this thing was very negative or whatever. He was skeptical about the whole thing,
but they were talking about they started talking about the possibility of some kind
of cult being involved, and then all of a sudden, several books flew
out of the shelf in the office and nobody had slammed the door or anything
like that. So now here you're just talking about it. I mean,
how many times have we heard uh things about poltergeist phenomena or something. I
mean, how many people that saw the mothman had an outbreak of poltergeist?
Phenomena afterwards, and how do we reconcile this as a flesh and blood unknown
creature, you know. So yeah, it just it just seems like you
dropped the pebble in the water and these the the rings go out and they
just they just keep going and they touch all kinds of different things. It's
this not nothing is static, you know, it's it's uh, it's just
there's so many uh uh. Now when you mentioned uh, you know,
footprints appearing out in the middle of nowhere, that brings me back to Lee
Hample. Now, Lee Hample has a farm. He he was a uh
well degrees in mathematics and chemistry. He taught mathematics for decades in Illinois.
And this guy's a scientist. So he, uh he got this farm over
ten years ago and he's making hay. That sounds funny, but he's you
know, enjoying his retirement and making a little money and keeping busy. And
some of his neighbors said, you know, there's a werewolf that lives in
those woods back there. He's looking at him like, what are you talking
about? And then several credible people were telling him what they had seen.
And then one night he saw it. He saw it in the dark,
and later on he realized he was missing about an hour of time, so
he started setting up trap cameras. He's got thousands of photographs. I've been
able to speak at the Beast of Bray Road conference a couple of times.
And what they do is people that go to that the Lee Hamp will have
him over to his farm just for a small fee and for two hours he'll
show you photographs he's taken with trap cameras and all the bizarre things that are
going on. So you have I mean, he's got these footprints in one
case in the snow. They start in the middle of nowhere, and then
they split off, almost like this thing divided like an amoeba into two of
them, or maybe his buddy was on his shoulders, you know, when
they manifested. But it's and then they disappear, and they're five toes,
five toes, a pad, and a heel. And he says when he
looks at these tracks, he thinks there's maybe four or five different creatures because
they're not all exactly the same. And whenever he tries to I mean,
he leaves. These things act like animals. They eat bait, they eat
roadkill. He sets up cameras with the bait. The cameras don't function for
the most part when they're there. He's gotten like I think he's actually gotten
some pictures of them. He keeps a lot of these things close to his
vest and that there are some where you can see part of like ear or
whatever. I guess it could be Scooby Doo or something, but I don't
think so. But he's got something. But then he's got there's some kind
of technology or something going on. There's like there's drones of the sky.
There's things that that look like they might be a portal, some kind of
energy ball or whatever. There just there are things that are almost incomprehensible when
you There was this one image where you see something that looks like a black
snake sort of suspended in the sky, but it's just or cord or something.
And then he moves the over to the other side of the picture and
there is a kind of a boxy looking thing with with balls on it or
wheels or something kind of suspended in the air, and you're trying to make
it make sense of this. There is something something bizarre going on. I
don't know if it's a place where the air is thin, so to speak,
or if it's a grand central station between dimensions. He had another another
photograph of a class flying saucer, a black flying saucer zipping around a tree.
You can tell by the time stamp, but it was just like a
matter of a few seconds and it just like it appears, zips around and
is gone. He has had now he was He's let me use some of
his images. He put some of them on Coast to Coast am and he
he gave me he was on my show and he liked the way it went,
so he allowed me to use some of his photographs and presentations. But
the ones I don't have is he's had several road killed deer because of the
highway he's on. Well, he's pulled him on his property. He sets
up a shraft camera and it's night and you can see a misst show up
with the time stamp, and then the carcass is gone, no drag marks,
no footprints. And this has happened maybe a dozen times. It's just,
you know, it's it's just mind blowing. And so you know,
I wonder what I've tried to speculate as to what's going on. Is there
really some kind of other intelligence there are they? You know, if we
think about tulpas and monsters from the ID and and all that sort of thing.
You know, a wonder do these things create these constructs, these temporal
beings. Maybe they don't just happen and they're supposed to scare people away,
you know, now, if that's there, if that wild speculation is correct,
they might be all wet because people are flocking there to see these things,
so they're not really scaring people away, they're attracting them. But you
know, it just can't it's so hard to wrap my head around now.
And then I don't know if you know the Bucks County guys, Eric Mentel
investigates, Okay, they were out there a couple of years ago along with
Ellen Collins, and it was Eric Mantel and Dominic Setel. Dominic As they're
sensitive and they were out there and at night and they they start to hear
this howling. You know, they've got it on their YouTube video. You
hear this howling off to one side and then howling over here. Creepy as
hell. Now, I wouldn't be able to tell you an animal howl from
Marsupial. You know, I just wouldn't be able to do it. So
but they were saying eyeshine about six feet off the ground. They also be
prior to that, they actually saw a lightless guy they thought was a satellite,
and then all of a sudden zipped across the sky and then a mysts
started to form, and the mysts have there. There's a photograph of Lee
Hample in the daylight. There's a mist surrounding him on the picture, but
he didn't see it when he was there, so, you know, mist
around that place. It could have been just basic atmospheric conditions. You know,
it had rained earlier in the general area, so maybe that was it.
But they were really getting freaked out, and even Eric, who usually
doesn't these things, don't bother them. So I asked dominic on my show.
I said, Dominique, what were you feeling like out there being the
sensitive And he said, I felt like I was in a short tank underwater
holding the bait. And they decided they were going to get out of there.
They just they had enough and they weren't there very long. So and
the ironic thing is a week later, they're in the pine barrens, or
like five miles deep into the pine barrens with a couple of seasoned bigfoot researchers
and they're hearing things like whoops and knocking and all that sort of thing,
and Dominic felt like it was a day at the beach. He wasn't freaking
out at all. It was just very calm. There was something about that
experience that really really and I could hear things moving in the corn. Yeah,
well, corn's creepy anyway, that's right. Stephen King ruined corn for
everybody. Yes, that's right. But yeah, Now does Lee have problems
with like poltergeist stuff on his farm or in his house? That's a good
question. Oh well, when when we were there with cars were parked there,
a friend of mine's car lights started a flash, you know, like
if Yeah, and even when she went to a motel that night, she
said they were still flashing into the wind. You know, it was one
of these motels where the door is right there that the car was still the
light. The lights were still flashing, and that happens to a lot of
cars in that area. So I haven't heard of anything like poltergeist phenomena in
his house. But he had had another another issue with missing time at another
time, and he's seen this thing two or three times and even got a
photograph of it from a distance. I mean, you can see it at
arm's length. That doesn't look very high. But he had some kind of
a program that would tell you how tall this thing it was, and it
was six feet tall, and you could see it. Sometimes it was huntered
down on all fours and sometimes it was standing on two. This is in
broad daylight. So there's something truly bizarre going on there. But I said,
what I can't wrap my head around is this this incredible conjunction with apparently
some kind of technology, uh guide, and there's some kind of an intelligence
there that is helping to cloak and hide these things from the cameras. Yeah,
and when and Eric said, when they were out there that night,
the cameras completely failed, didn't take any pictures of them when they were out
there. Yeah. Yeah, they've had problems with that out at Skinwalker Ranch
too, right, Yeah, that you know cameras, they'll place cameras and
stick them down with duct tape and electrical tape and all kinds of stuff,
and it'll get ripped off way up you know, twenty feet up a pole
that had its slippery and you know all of that kind of stuff. And
I mean, there's a part of me is like, dudes, it's gonna
not let you take pictures. It's just not. It's not gonna. Now,
you should keep trying, but don't be surprised that you don't ever get
a picture. That's that classic case that I remember listening to Colin Kellerher and
George Knapp on the Coast to Coast a m with Art Bell years ago when
before even the book The Hunter for the skin Walker was written, and we
get these tantalizing stories about what was going on out there. And that was
when they had something like four or five cameras way up on the poles,
aimed in an area that was a had a lot of activity, and one
camera stayed operating, as I remember, and they went back to look at
that footage and they could see some of the like the red dot on some
of the other cameras, and they could see when the red dot went out,
but they couldn't couldn't get the resolution to see that they that they had
and it wasn't just an internal mechanical failure or electrical failure. Like you say
that the uh, the cables were ripped out, Yeah, physically ripped,
Yeah, violently. That's That's one of the things that that struck me about
it is that it was not just disconnected or the battery taken out or the
battery drained. No, it was torn. They were torn up. You
know, the the whatever they used to adhere it to the poll would get
ripped apart, and then pieces of the camera itself would be torn. And
so yeah, that's that's also an intimidation tactic. That suggests a direct intelligence
and consciousness that knows exactly what's going on. And they took a direct route
to stop it. Yeah, yeah, took a very direct route. And
you know, again that's an intimidation tactic. It also worked to terrorize the
humans who it apparently thought of as its enemy, right, whatever it is.
Well, remember the incident where I guess this is again before I think
Bigelow still had a presence there, and it was before it might have even
been before Bigelow purchased a ranch. But because some of this had gotten out
in the newspaper, and there was a guy that made a pilgrimage there because
he felt at one with the ranch and he wanted to meditate, and so
sherman, the father and the son kind of looked at each other and said,
okay, have edit. You know. So he goes out there on
the field and he starts to meditate, and they see this thing that like
a blur, and later on they said it looked like the Predator effect from
the film Predator. And if there's something, they couldn't really focus on it
very well, but it came out and it was like, it was angry
at what this guy was doing. And all this guy is doing is meditating,
thinking good thoughts. But whatever this was didn't like it, and it
freaked this guy out and he couldn't wait to get off the property. But
you know, what the heck is that all about. My guess is that
whatever it is is based not in carbon. In other words, it's not
always solid. It's probably energy and it probably could sense that he was doing
something that changed the energy of its environment, and it was having none of
that. It was like, oh, no, how dare you? This
is mine? You think thoughts, Yes, this is mine. You don't
get to come here and and mess with my stuff with out my permission.
You didn't even ask, you know, so I'm going to run you off.
Not I'm not saying I would go and ask permission and be able to,
you know, sit and meditate. I wouldn't even think that that was
a great idea. But there are some non corporeal beings that are very very
territorial, like wolves and dogs. Just saying and the according to some of
the reports, and you don't know how how reliable some of them are.
People have seen orbs of light manifest into wolves there. And uh, of
course there was the story in the beginning of the hunt, the big walker,
the big beast that attacked a some of their livestock, and they kept
firing at it. It wasn't you know, it wasn't causing any problems,
and it just walked away. In of course, the Prince ended in the
in the swamp somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, I mean they shot a piece
of its flesh off, but it didn't like stay. See. That's that's
the part where I'm like, Okay, it's time to go now. I
don't care that we just bought this. We're not staying here tonight. Nope,
nope, nope, nope. Another thing about the dog Man a few
years ago, I was at a Michigan Uphon meeting and a gentleman that was
a retired the Wayne State University professor talked about his research in Michigan into Bigfoot
and UFOs, and he sounded a lot like Jack. I think it's Jack
Lebsradis that wrote Psychic Bigfoot and the Sasquatch People or whatever. I mean,
this was some pretty wild stuff, but he's a really down to earth guy.
But the thing that caught my attention was he said, you know,
we keep finding these large doglike footprints in these high strangess areas, And I
thought, well, where have I heard that before? Well, it turned
out I heard it in a mockman prophecy. Yep. If John Keele talks
about the and other articles, he talks about dog like footprints around the the
old Norse power plant, and also where Tad Jones saw that bizarre retro ufo
with the propeller on the bottom and the weird yeah cross lanes, the weird
guy beside it with the weird shoe soles. You know, it's funny.
The last time I read that, I looked up the name of the man
who had first investigated it before Keel got there. He worked at the same
place my dad worked up at Union Carbides Tech Center, so my dad knew
the guy and I thought about it, and I was like, you know,
that's that's the guy that that my dad said was like really down to
earth and sensible and not prone to flights of fancy. And he was.
He was also the only guy that my dad would say, hey, you
know, have you seen the weird lights over the other side of the valley
because my dad used to stand outside during lunch. He worked overnight, so
lunch was you know, deep dark, right, and you know, he'd
tell him about the weird lights that he was watching, and sometimes they'd watch
together. But yeah, that was I never have forgotten that there were those
giant dog prints and cross lanes. And then remember he consulted with Ivan Sanderson,
and Ivan Sanders said, yeah, we keep finding him, and you
wish there was a whole chapter devoted to that, or at least a couple
of pages. Yeah, but that's where it ends. Yeah. So I
asked Linda Godfrey about it and she said yes. And the one thing she
did say, you said, you have to be really careful these days because
there are people out there faking dog man footprints. You know, you have
to be careful you're not taken in. But here you have fort researchers separated
by half a century, all telling us that we're finding these large dog like
footprints, whether we're actually seeing the culprit or not, in these high stranges
areas. So it's something that is connected all this and has been with us
for quite some time. Yeah, yeah, and it's I do also think
that it's interesting that dogs tend to be afraid of Bigfoot. You know,
the one when we had the howling whatever it was in the woods that sounded
like Bigfoot almost twenty years ago, when we lived in another part of Ohio,
our dogs were terrified. They and they were not afraid of anything,
you know, they were they were big and strong and generally not well.
Okay, Naniko was afraid of people except for us, but the other one
feared nothing, and they hunkered down and just basically tried to hide. So
you know, of course I had to go out and bring them in.
But yeah, dogs generally either start barking crazily when they're some kind of bigfoot
activity, or they're terrified. And then there's cases with bigfoot eating dogs or
mothman or something or UFOs. So although in some cases I've heard where all
of a sudden, the dogs get very quiet, yeah, when when some
bizarre stuff is going on. So but but the either way, I mean,
that's still uh. People need to pay attention to the the the responses
of animals when these things are going on, because that's just another validation that
there's some kind of paranormal phenomena or something unexplained going on. Yeah. Oh,
I just got a book by Linda Zimmerman called Animal Reactions to UFOs.
It's a very small book. She it's a it's but it's it basically is
sort of a starter to get your ideas running in the direction of how different
animals have responded to UFO sightings or experiences. And she's really interesting because she
says, you know, animals are the perfect UFO witnesses because they don't hallucinate
the way people do. They don't lie, you know, so there's no
confabulation happening. You know, they're essentially honest, and they have stronger senses
than we do, so you know, they can hear things above and below
our ability to hear things. They can see things in slightly different lighting conditions
and they can apparently feel vibrations better than we can. So I thought that
was really interesting. And that's you know, I'm about halfway through it right
now. Yeah, I didn't know. I'm familiar with some of her other
books. She was on my show a while back, and you know the
Hudson Valley sightings. Yeah, yeah, specialty yah. Yeah. And a
lot of the sightings in this book are from New York, but she has
plenty of others from elsewhere. And she even has this one kind of odd
sighting. There's a man who worked a toll booth on a bridge on the
night shift and is very boring. And so there were you know, wild
rabbits that you know, lived off at the side of the road and the
grass and they'd come out and eat, and you know, he took to
throwing them vegetables just to have something to watch, you know, so they
you know, eat the vegetables. And one night he went to throw them
their vegetables and they were laying in the grass, stretched out and they were
completely motionless. And he was shocked. Thought somebody had killed them or you
know, why they would all die in the same you know, general area
and stretched out like that was also disturbing. So he came out of his
toll booth and there he's noticed a UFO. He noticed a light, a
big light in the sky, and he realized he couldn't move until it flew
past. It flew over him and left and he could move. And then
the rabbits started, you know, getting up and moving around again. But
then they they were freaked out. They wouldn't you know. He tried to
give them their vegetables and they were like, no way, man, We're
done with this. We're gonna go home. And I thought that was really
an interesting one is that they know that there are a couple of other UFO
cases with wildlife that you know that has something happened string right, but you
know more than one wildlife member, so you have a whole family of rabbits.
That's that's really interesting. Yeah, So I don't have there been have
you noticed or thought that there's been an uptick in dog man sidings or wolfman
sightings or does it just seem that way. I think it seems that way
because the floodgates have finally opened, people can finally talk about these things,
and you know, especially I haven't listened to Vic Kuondiff on dog Man Incounress
Radio for a while, but you know, he does get recent signings,
but every once in a while he'll get the ones that go back a couple
decades or more, and it's something that they haven't told anybody because they're just
so bizarre. So I and I think that the same thing might be true,
you know, the the I think even John Keel thought the flap idea
was kind of an illusion. It just kind of depended on what people were
reporting and so forth. As you know, the the mainstream media will,
you know, once in a while the report on a Stevensville or Phoenix lights
or O'Hare airport or whatever. But I for years I subscribed to the UFO
news clipping service at least you know now and then, and I inherited a
bunch of old ones from the sixties one time from a guy that got out
of it. And the thing you find out there is that these things are
going on all the time. It's just that they seldom get beyond the local
newspaper or just that the local area that reported. So I'm not you know,
I people people do seem to have chronicled, you know, there seemed
to be certain months, certain days of the week that where these things do
seemed to tick up. And I found the research of a man named a
mad John Maludin that wrote the sixty sixty Years of Suppressed Evidence the Humanoid Reports,
and he took Albert Rosales's database, And of course Albert Rosales has an
amazing database of humanoid reports and others amongst us from one AD and he's got
about fifteen books out. It's probably due for another one. They can't wait
for the next one. But so that was the database that he took,
and he found that in focusing on humanoid reports, there were certain times of
the day that was more likely to have a human encounter than other times of
the day. At noon and lunchtime, forget it, you're probably not going
to see anybody. But between ten and two am, ten pm and two
am, if there's things going on in the ARA, it's not just going
to happen anywhere, you would have a better chance of having one of these
encounters. And the bizarre thing is that holds true, he says, in
every time zone. So as the world turns, the point of entry or
manifestation, whatever it is, is the same, and then he talks about
humanoid migrations, how eight to ten year cycles, how they seem to show
up somewhere in South America, then they move up to North America, either
the US or Canada, and then they move over to not on any particular
timescale, but they'll move over to Britain or the European continent, and then
Asia or Malaysia and then back again to South America. And that's and there's
been like these eight to ten year cycles for what four or five times over
the years that he's chronicled, and that is just bizarre. And I wonder,
you know, remember the old days when you had Gray Bark and Albert
Bender talking about how people would be chronicling where UFOs were coming from, and
they were always thinking they were coming from Antarctica, and so they would draw
these lines and then the men in black would manifest or show up, because
that was a no no whether there was a guy from New Zealand of John
Stewart that supposedly had that experience, Albert Bender and so forth, And I
wonder, you know, it would kind of make sense. Maybe there's nobody
around there to see it, but maybe these things actually start at Antarctica and
then move up to South America and then around so but either way, you
know, if there's a and I think I know you've been doing some research
into that to see that if those kinds of things are verified hold true.
So that'll be fascinating to see if they that research can be duplicated. But
that's so, that's amazing so far. According to Chris, who's the one
who's doing all of the coding and working on the database itself, so far,
it's it's consistent with what the author found, so I think he's onto
something okay so far. Also, you can trace flap years by times when
the world itself, uh geopolitically is having things happen, you know, having
like when the Berlin Wall fell and the Iron Curtain fell, there was a
lot of UFOs and then there was of course a lot of UFO sightings in
the forties around World War two. So you can you can follow those those
times and places and you will get an uptick in reports. Now I want
what I want to do is take the UFO databases from New Fork, MoveOn
Flying Saucer Review and put those in with the humanoids and see what we get
and we're also working on the USGS Map of Magnetic Anomalies, just because that
that so far if if what I'm seeing by examining it, you know,
visibly, you know, without a computer, but you know, looking at
it, just correlating places and dates and times, latitude and longitude, I
am seeing it correlation. Let's just put it that way. I don't know
that it's going to prove causation, but it's it's at least something to show
other people where to look book and what to look at. Hopefully that that's
that's kind of beyond me. I'm glad you're doing that kind of research.
I've been reading an old Flying Saucer Review, one of their specials where they
talk about landings, and I was reading an article by Jacques Voila, and
I think, well, it's he had written his first two books, Challenged
the Science and Antemy of a Phenomenon, but he hadn't written Passport to Morgonia
yet, because Passport to Morgonia has all those landings at the at the end.
Well, that's what I'm reading. He's going through all these landings,
about two hundred of them, just very briefly mentioned in this article and it's
fascinating because so many of them, the the the witness encounters paralysis or has
some kind of a a physical reaction where that they feel some kind of vibration
or whatever. So I'm reading all these one after another, and there's all
this repetition of certain kinds of things, and you know, sometimes that the
paralysis occurs without you know anything. Oftentimes they aim something at him and there's
actually a beam or whatever. But there's so many different descriptions of these beings
and their behavior and their craft or whatever. I just you know, I
know I mentioned John Keel about every five minutes. And you know, there
is a friend of mine, Jeff. He claims they have a drinking game.
They'll listen to one of my podcasts and they'll take a drink every time
I mentioned John Keele, which means they fasted out in about five or six
minutes. But yeah, it's just it's just fascinating that you get these patterns,
but then you don't other things don't jive. You're not getting You do
get the silver coveralls and picking up of flowers. And there's one guy speaking
of rabbits. One encounter with a guy gets paralyzed and these guys run off
with his rabbits. Yeah, he steals the rabbits out of the hunch.
I remember that. I was like, damn, what's up with y'all?
Don't be doing that. Yeah, you guys don't know how to properly take
care of these bunny rabbits. Maybe they're going to eat them. I don't
know. Uh yeah. And then there's the weird stories where you know,
they steal stockings off of women. You know, like a woman is carrying
her stockings in one hand because she walked across the creek, so she took
her shoes and stockings off, and then she put her shoes on because you
don't want to put stockings on let legs because then they stick and it doesn't
work. So she's walking and she's minding her own business picking flowers in the
mountains of Italy, and these two weird guys in their little egg shaped craft
with their silver suits run over and steal her stock I love the illustrations.
Oh, I love that illustration. They look like they're wearing football helmets from
the nineteen twenties. That's exactly what they look like. And then there's another
case with another woman. She was putting laundry out and they stole laundry.
I'm like, is are y'all just creepers? What's happening? And the only
thing I can think of in that period of time is they wanted everybody to
think they were from space, but they had no idea how to act like
aliens. So they hadn't gotten there, like you know, behavior down.
They hadn't decided how they were going to be. It's like, you know,
it's like if they were fairies trying to convince people they were from space,
but they didn't really know, you know, how to be. They
didn't read enough science fiction or something, or they read the wrong science fiction,
almost like men and black, not knowing how to act human. Yeah,
don't they try to drink jello? You know? And what about the
guy was that John Trasco where these guys are trying to capture his dog and
he says, we don't mean no harm. We just watch your dog get
out. I want my dog. You get your own talk. And that's
the thing again, there's something about dogs something. Now, have there been
dog men sighted with UFOs like Bigfoot in UFOs? I think there have been,
like like Paul Sinclair would tell you that there'll be a lot of strange
lights or whatever in the same vicinity. Are they connected, you know?
Are they are they morphing into these creatures that nobody has seen that there,
that that's been recorded, So it again the connection is possible, but maybe
tenuous, I don't know. Yeah, although Lee's case, you know,
with his little weird mechanical you know or whatever, they are right there there
are. Yeah, there is some kind of bizarre technology there. But and
again that intelligence, I'm assuming that the intelligence behind that is the same intelligence
that is cloaking these things. So that would be that would be really the
only example I could probably think of that where there seems to be some kind
of a UFO phenomenon in the same vicinity that these things are. Yeah.
Yeah, And it's strange, you know, because he is trying to get
people from universities and scientists interested in this area. I mean, you have
a virtual laboratory there. And I was talking to him, you know,
Linda started writing about Lee's farm and at least by monsters among us, maybe
even before that, and he said that they he was perfectly happy to use
his name in the book, but they for some reason the legal people wanted
to give him a pseudonym, so he's somebody Smith I think in Monsters among
Us and Linda only talks about some of the things that were going on there.
But he said that it was for Linda, it was like a kid
in a candy store. Here's just been writing about this, and just a
few miles away from where she's living, here's this virtual laboratory over certain acres
where this stuff is actually happening that she can go and observe, you know.
Yeah, and that's that. See, that's that's just perfect timing and
placement of of you know, being in the right place at the right time.
I just one of the other things that I, you know, I
noticed about the dog man and the bigfoot thing. They're sort of in my
mind entwined together because like you said, you know, we're okay with bigfoot.
Bigfoot we can kind of deal with. But no, no, no,
no walking dogs tall six foot, No, we're not having that.
I still think that they're they're related in a way, And I was like,
you know, I wonder if they're a different kind of bigfoot that just
has big ears and a tail or, if it's you know, a variant
just like, this is a wilderness being that that guards the wilderness, and
so it's big and hairy. That's the two things you have to have.
And then the rest of it is just you know, kind of regional window
dressing or something. And I was fascinated when I was looking at information about
the Native American mounds and I found that there were some skeletons found in the
mounds that had artificial extensions on their teeth, so they had teeth ground down
so that the bones of a wolf's muzzle with the sharp teeth could be fitted
into the mouth. And then the the uh archaeologists and anthropologists thought maybe they
wore a hood of a wolf skin of the face over that, so that
they were portraying wolf spirits or some other kind of spirits. And this is
fascinating to me. So I'm like, oh, so wolf shamans. I
wonder if Bigfoot has wolf shamans. I was like, why not? You
know, nobody knows. Nobody knows, so you know, I'm just throwing
things out there. Well, I guess I do think there's a distinction.
And the one thing is I really haven't heard people report the the negative vibe
that the evil respect yeah, with Bigfoot, and it's very common. The
same with Paul Sinclair, and he even talked about a connection with them in
mounds out there too. Sometimes they're seen near mounds, So I don't know
what that's all about. Of course, if you've ever watched Mountain Monsters,
there was an episode. There was the episode where the Chupa Cabras in West
Virginia were teaming up with Bigfoot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I watched
an episode of that with Fox and I was just like shaking my head.
Well, I met at the Mothman statue. I met a young lady.
I won't say how she was related to John Tice, who played Trapper,
but we had a good laugh. She said, uh, this person who
will remain nameless. They shot everything on the same property you supposed to be,
and it was I think it was. I think it was John's property
in fact. And we had a good laugh about some of the things,
like the Pocahontas fire dragon. Yeah anyway, yeah, and the Cherokee something
cat. There's a Cherokee cherkey devil right right. And oh and I remember
how how Mothman you don't look at his eyes because you'll pass out. Yeah,
and of course who was at the buck passed out, But the camera
people didn't that, which is good. They must have really been their eyes
were protected by the camera lenses. I guess, so I guess that makes
sense. But anyway, but I digress. Oh yeah, Mountain Monsters is
really really hilarious to me, and I loved it as as a guilty pleasure,
especially when I went off with the bizarre conspiracy stuff. Oh yeah,
yeah, and the little girl in the woods and the god you know,
they just, you know, they pushed the envelope and then they busted it.
Yeah, they just kept going. They just they just kept going.
But yeah, I don't. And the other thing is, you know,
when we talk about this bear wolf or whatever it was, I can't help
but think of Zelia Edgar's book Just Another Tenfoil Half Presents, where she of
course she's Achilian, so she talks about transmogrification, but she has this great
phrase lost in Transmogrification and alshow she talks about flopped projections and gives examples like
perhaps the Enfield horror in Illinois in the seventies, I think three legs,
arms protruding out of its chest and pink glowing eyes, a couple of different
people's all this even shot at it. Uh So I'm wondering if some of
these things they're so called bearwolf for whatever it was, it's just one of
those things that got screwed up translations somehow because you don't see many of those.
You see plenty of big foots, you see plenty of of dog men
or whatever they are. Yeah, but you know these, uh. And
then you had the row Row, the Rochelle monster. Yeah. And I
always I always say row row sounds like Scooby Doo trying to form word.
Yeah, there you go. And uh, but it was sort of like
slowly coming into manifestation. You know that the bangs in the house, they
could smell it, they would even could feel the breath, but nothing was
there. And then I finally it showed up, not leaving footprints, and
I think eventually it did. So it was not was not a conventional bigfoot,
could not have been simply a cryptid, undocumented animal. It was something
slowly coming. It's like a textbook caase of these things slowly coming into manifestation.
And then it would attack a bunch of chickens and not eat them.
Yeah, because probably it doesn't even have insides, you know, I mean,
think about it. Do they do they have insides? Don't? I
don't know. I just but these things have been with us forever. You
know. It's part of the human condition. And you know, I get
I get it. You know. I call it the uh, the Red
Queen effect. You know when Alice in Wonderland with the Red Queen told her,
if you're gonna get anywhere, you're gonna run faster and faster, and
Alice runs as fast as you can and the trees are staying in the same
place. So that's what it feels like sometimes when we're trying to sift through
this. Yeah, and you know, have you ever felt like you made
a couple of connections and you think you're onto something and then you hit a
brick wall? You know? Oh yeah, I mean that. I think
that that that happens on purpose. Honestly, I think so too that.
You know, you think you've got to think you've got it, You think
you've got it, and then some other evidence or testimony gets thrown in front
of you and it's like a microphone dropping. Yeah, exactly, It's like
the it just went boom and they were done and then you sit there and
you're just like, why did I Why did I waste three years on that?
And Jacques Vlla tells us that the phenomenon negates itself. Yes, you
know, in some cases is pretty dramatic, where somebody will see something and
then you get a knock on the door. You can't talk about this,
And sometimes the experience is so bizarre that if a person tells it, people
don't believe it, and it just shuts it right down. Of course,
so and so many of these things do have that incredible high strangeness aspect to
it. I think at this point I've decided that everybody has some kind of
weird thing that has happened to them. Either it was mostly mundane so they
don't think about it as anything weird, or they know it's weird, but
they'll never ever tell anyone, right. As part of why I like talking
with people who have had experiences and I'm like, you know, somebody somewhere
has seen something weirder than you, but they will never say anything about it.
But if they hear your story, maybe they will. Because I think
it's a burden on the psyche to keep secrets like that, because it makes
you feel crazy, and it makes you doubt yourself, and it makes you
doubt what your truth is. So I think it's really important to keep telling
these these experiences, keep telling the stories. Well, I think that's true
because a young lady I talked to several years ago. She contacted me on
Facebook, and she and her husband this is Londonderry, New Hampshire. They're
near an airport, but they're very familiar with the planes and the lights to
go over, and they're standing out early in the morning and start they're standing
on their front porch and they see these strange lights coming toward them, and
then all of a sudden, they're not standing next to each other anymore.
It's a little bit lighter out, and they look up and they see this
large black triangle brushing the tops of the trees. And then, as so
many people doing these things, they didn't register them. They just turned around
and went back to bed. And then later on she realized that I'm missing
time, so she was on a quest. It was really bugging her.
She wanted to find out what happened, and so I asked her a series
of John Keele questions. Things I would have if I was you know,
locked back in the nineteen sixties, I would have said, I hope you
you know, find you what happened during that missing time. I would have
known nothing else to ask. And to make the long story short, I
found out that they were experiencing typical haunting phenomena, some kind of a little
bit of electrical phenomenon. Both sons were seeing orbs, some in the house
and some outside the house. She had seen a shadow person. And then
finally I said, this is going to sound like a weird question, but
have you ever seen any kind of an animal you couldn't identify, like a
bigfoot or whatever? And she said no. And then she said, oh,
wait a minute. My mother in law and sister in law both saw
something near the property, and this thing was seen twice. What they had
seen was something like a black panther standing on two legs. So, and
she also had she had a UFO, a local UFO group over to her
house, asking questions and so forth. And at the same time, they
lived on a cul de sac, and a black car with its windows blacked
out, drove down, went around the cul de sac, and then drove
away. So, anyway, if I hadn't you know, asked all these
questions, those would have been buried, that would have been you know,
not a Now later on she made a breakthrough, and she's very, very
I rational about her She said, I don't remember these things consciously, so
I take it with a grain of salt, you know. And it was
kind of you know, she had these these two pale grays on one side
looking at her and blinking. Everything really creepy. There was something toward her
feet that she couldn't even describe. It was so awful. She said.
The only thing she could think of was remember toy story with that weird kid
that cobbled together all those evil looking Yeah, she said, that's what it
made her think of. But then off to her right that she couldn't quite
see it, but it was some kind of a female presence, got the
sense of something tall and like almost like the tall fairy or the tall gray
or whatever, and she's saying things like, you know, you've been through
this before, don't worry, it's going to be all right. And she's
got all this craft going on and anyway, so that's what came about.
But again, she was one of these people that have had She and her
family have had experiences for years. Yeah, that's and that's that is fairly
typical year as I can tell, which is why I think everybody has something
a little weird that's happened, whether they remember it or not. And I'm
fully convinced at this point that the world is way weirder than you know,
any of us thought. I think it's way stranger. And the paradox is
that that seems to be the natural state of things. People having these experiences
are not weird. They're kind of a natural part of reality, even though
it might be kind of a sub reality or whatever. Yet the human part
of us is desperate to make sense so good, but it's always elusive.
It's always just out of our grasp. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, one
hundred. Well do you have any what? So why do we torture ourself
like this? Why do we torture ourselves? I don't know. I think
it's the the eternal quest to understand, to experience, to know, to
understand to I just think we're too left brained, you know, the logic
is just really strong, and we really want to understand right whereas the right
brain is going just just let go be like Luke Skywalker, let go go
with your feelings, you know, don't don't think too hard. I'm terrible
at not thinking too hard. Well, it's good to see you again.
Well you too, and thank you as always for coming to visit with me.
And if you ever have anything that you you know, want to ask
me, let me know. If you ever need a guest. Oh okay,
yeah, sure you can always you can always call on me. I
can always talk about just about anything. Well, that sounds good. I
think we should do that relatively soon. Okay, thanks and have a good
holiday. Okay, you too. Well that's all for this week's episode of
the Six Degrees of John Keel podcast. If you have any questions or thoughts
about the podcast, or would like to come and talk about your experiences of
the paranormal, you can contact us at six d JK six' seven at
gmail dot com. We promised even answer you and we are always happy to
hear from you. Thank you at suppose having King and