1
00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:12,560
You're listening to the paranorl UK Radio
network and this is six Degrees of John

2
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:51,039
Keel. Hello and welcome to the
six Degrees of John Keele podcast. I'm

3
00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:56,280
your host, Barbara and with me
tonight is Steve Ward. Again. It's

4
00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,600
been a while since I've talked with
Steve, but tonight we're going to talk

5
00:01:00,679 --> 00:01:11,200
about dog Man, like panthropy,
Wolfman, all sorts of strange sightings in

6
00:01:11,239 --> 00:01:17,840
Great Britain in the United States,
h recent research, and we're also going

7
00:01:17,879 --> 00:01:22,799
to look back at Linda Godfrey,
who really I think is the one in

8
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,280
America who brought dog Man to everybody's
consciousness. How you doing, Steve,

9
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:32,879
I'm doing really good. Excellent,
excellent. You have Mothman looking over your

10
00:01:32,879 --> 00:01:37,280
shoulder, making sure that you know
I do. You're full of the strangeness.

11
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:38,400
There he is. If I hold
my head just right, it looks

12
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,959
like I've got you in can I
know? That was the first thing I

13
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,000
saw when when you popped on and
I was like, what does he have

14
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,159
on his head? So I'm glad
to know it's just mothman, you know,

15
00:01:51,239 --> 00:01:53,760
creeping on you. No, just
a two dimensional moth man. Well,

16
00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,359
excellent. So where do you want
to start with this because you know

17
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:06,560
more about dog man and all of
this stuff than I do. Well,

18
00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:13,159
I guess I'll just start with You
know, I was I heard Linda Godfrey

19
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:19,080
on I think it was the Jeff
Ren Show this before I think around the

20
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,599
time of her public her first publication, The Beast of Bray Road. I

21
00:02:22,599 --> 00:02:24,120
don't know if it had been out
yet or whatever, but it's I think

22
00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:28,719
it must have. But that's what
made me go and order the book and

23
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,560
check it out. And you know, she and i'd heard a couple I've

24
00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:37,080
heard a couple of reports prior to
that of something that they weren't calling a

25
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,319
dog man at that time, but
other people had encountered something like that.

26
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,759
So I became fascinated by it,
and I read I read her book,

27
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,360
the uh the Beast of Bray Road, and you know, it gives a

28
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:57,360
basic recounting of the sightings of this
upright canid and the Elkhorn, Wisconsin area,

29
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,840
especially along Bray Road. And I
have been out to Bray Road a

30
00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:06,400
couple of times and it's only about
four and a half miles long, and

31
00:03:06,439 --> 00:03:07,520
it was kind of hard to find, you know, it's kind of it's

32
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:12,360
a little bit east of Elkhorn,
and it's just it's pretty much there's not

33
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,719
much in the way of woods there
or anything. It's pretty open. And

34
00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:23,520
now there's a guy who actually has
a dog man carving in his front yard.

35
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,360
That's more in more recent years.
But people are stopping on the road

36
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,639
all the time and taking pictures,
so it's pretty cool now. He hasn't

37
00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,479
he claimed, he hasn't seen it
himself. He's actually a little bit further

38
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,479
down the road than actually people see
it. But we can get into that

39
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,919
later because that'll we'll pick up with
Lee Hample's farm, who has had all

40
00:03:44,039 --> 00:03:50,159
kinds of activity there and his farm
is actually just a stone's throw from Bray

41
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:55,120
Road. But my first time meeting
Linda was in two thousand and seven.

42
00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:00,960
I went to Troy Taylor's Weird Winter
event the cater No See Yeah, to

43
00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:09,120
cater Illinois, and it was the
idea was to have the weird book authors

44
00:04:09,159 --> 00:04:12,439
there. The two guys I can't
remember their name, but started the Weird

45
00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:16,120
Books series from New Jersey I think
were there. Linda was there because she

46
00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:23,839
had written one on Michigan. I
think she contributed to that, and there

47
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,040
was some other other weird authors.
There a lot of people. About half

48
00:04:27,079 --> 00:04:30,720
the people that signed up didn't show
up because it was a pretty bad They've

49
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,920
been a pretty bad snowstorm. But
I traked down from Michigan when I was

50
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,240
living there at the time anyway,
and it was a really it was a

51
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:42,160
good event. And what I remember
is I was the one in the audience

52
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,199
that asked her about updates about the
Michigan dog Man. She was talking about

53
00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:54,160
other things at the time. And
the gang from Ghostly Talk. I've been

54
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,839
on their show a few times,
and they actually lived a few suburbs from

55
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,480
where I grew up, so we
become good friends. But they were up

56
00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:05,600
in the balcony, and later on
I heard about them talking about on the

57
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,600
show. They were having all kinds
of weird activity going on. This is

58
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,600
supposed to be a haunted theater that
we were at. I don't remember the

59
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,759
name of it, but there was
weird stuff going on up there on the

60
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,600
bellki. Of course I'm downstairs,
don't I didn't see anything. Nothing touched

61
00:05:20,639 --> 00:05:26,199
me, you know, nothing creepy
happened. Never does. And and later

62
00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,199
on they had Linda Godfrey on and
they were talking to her and she was

63
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,879
wondering if it was something to do
with her father, because she said it

64
00:05:31,959 --> 00:05:38,079
was the anniversary of I can't remember
if it was his passing or his birthday,

65
00:05:38,319 --> 00:05:40,319
and she was wondering if she was
going to get some kind of a

66
00:05:40,319 --> 00:05:44,480
message or signed from him. So
she wondered if that disturbance was anything to

67
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,839
do with him trying to make contact. So that was that was kind of

68
00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,560
cool, but she was she signed
my She her second book was out at

69
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:58,399
that time, called The Honey of
the American Werewolf, and so she kindly

70
00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:00,199
signed that for me. And that's
the first. So I saw her several

71
00:06:00,199 --> 00:06:06,639
times after that at the Michigan peracn
the Van Meet or Visitor Festival, and

72
00:06:06,639 --> 00:06:12,920
there's this great picture. I had
this shirt made up called braved Bray Road,

73
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,360
because actually I did brave Bray Road. I parked in a I went

74
00:06:16,399 --> 00:06:19,639
to Elkhorn. You can't park on
Bray Road. They won't They'll come and

75
00:06:19,639 --> 00:06:23,920
tow you away. They don't put
up with that nonsense. So I parked

76
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,720
in a in a parking lot about
half a mile away from the entrance of

77
00:06:27,759 --> 00:06:30,279
Bray Road, and I hiked it
and I went. I only got about

78
00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:32,839
a I was, I guess it
was more like a Yeah, it was

79
00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,800
about a half mile there, and
I only I only went in about a

80
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,040
mile and a half and then turned
back, so the whole whole ordeal was

81
00:06:41,079 --> 00:06:45,639
only four miles. But you know, my legs were I had my winter

82
00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:49,160
legs and I hadn't been exercising much, so they were a little rubbery afterwards.

83
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,319
But so that was kind of fun. It was a nice day,

84
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:57,680
and of course I didn't experience anything, but so I had this T shirt

85
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,279
made up braved Bray Road, this
great picture of me standing next to her

86
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:06,519
husband Steve and Linda at the Van
Meter Visitor Festival all together. And then

87
00:07:08,079 --> 00:07:14,040
later on I made a couple of
these posters that were sort of tributes to

88
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:19,399
the old UFO Report magazine. I
called it Ufo Review and with a bunch

89
00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:26,680
of bogus articles, and it's very
colorful, and one is the theme is

90
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,639
the Mothman Festival and the other is
the Van Meter Visitor Festival. And so

91
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,000
I have all kinds of names of
friends around there making up bogus articles and

92
00:07:35,319 --> 00:07:41,800
a lot of humor. I had
Chad Lewis and Kevin Nelson looking like men

93
00:07:41,879 --> 00:07:47,199
in Black, and I had Joelina
who was the librarian there that the article

94
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,720
was that she is the one that
silenced the men in black rather than the

95
00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:55,879
other way around. So just a
lot of fun stuff like that. And

96
00:07:56,199 --> 00:08:01,759
a good friend of mine, Brandy
she I made her archaeologist and she discovered

97
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,439
giant skulls and dubuque, so that
was that was kind of funny too,

98
00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:09,120
had these big purple skulls on there. But the best was I took that

99
00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:15,680
picture of me, Linda and Steve, and uh I made it. I

100
00:08:15,759 --> 00:08:20,000
called it Brai Road Tours and uh, you know, putting on the dog

101
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,560
with Linda Godfrey. And of course
the idea was Steve would be the bus

102
00:08:22,639 --> 00:08:26,560
driver. I'd be the guy that
would count the number of people that got

103
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,279
off at bray rode him get back
on. And Linda, of course was

104
00:08:30,279 --> 00:08:35,519
a tour guide. So it was
like dial one eight hundred girl, are

105
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,679
you know anyway it was. It
was just a lot of fun to do.

106
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:45,039
And uh I had a copy for
her, but she didn't wasn't able

107
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:52,399
to make that. Uh that one
uh band meeter uh uh conference and then

108
00:08:52,519 --> 00:08:54,840
one was shut down because of COVID. I think so I never got in

109
00:08:54,879 --> 00:08:58,799
contact with her again, but yeah, she was, Uh, I just

110
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:05,799
have really good memories of her.
And I might mention that book, Honey,

111
00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:11,879
the American Wearable. There's a really
interesting passage in there. There's a

112
00:09:11,879 --> 00:09:18,000
book called Wisconsin Mounds and it deals
with the effigy mounds in southern Wisconsin.

113
00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:24,399
And she was looking at that.
She had a cluster map of these dog

114
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:30,559
man sightings in that one area of
Wisconsin, and she noticed that they were

115
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:37,759
clustering around certain types of effigy mounds, and most notably panther mounds and water

116
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,519
spirit mounds. Now, if you
imagine a panther mound, it is very

117
00:09:41,799 --> 00:09:43,879
very simple, you know, you
got the if you drew it an outline

118
00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:48,440
of the animal of a panther,
you'd have the head, a little bit

119
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,159
for the ears and the legs and
so forth, and a short tail.

120
00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:56,080
The water spirit mounds seemed to be
a little bit smaller, but would characterize

121
00:09:56,159 --> 00:10:00,440
them with like a long narrow tail. And for some reason, and she

122
00:10:00,639 --> 00:10:05,960
just seemed she found that they were
these sightings were clustering around these effigy mounds,

123
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,919
and uh, you know, she
hadn't really drawn any conclusions from that,

124
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,519
but she thought it was. It
was probably significant somehow, I think,

125
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:18,679
uh, I think if you go
back, I think there's a tradition

126
00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:26,519
that the uh something about these dog
men or the or these these spirits or

127
00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:30,360
whatever guarding the mounds or whatever.
I'm not really well bruised on that,

128
00:10:30,519 --> 00:10:33,759
but uh so, uh yeah,
that was That's what's what started me off.

129
00:10:33,879 --> 00:10:37,639
Was uh, you know, I've
bought all her books since then,

130
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,840
and I haven't read all of them
all the way through, but I perused

131
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,600
and I've heard some of them on
audible and so forth, and I've been

132
00:10:43,639 --> 00:10:46,679
able to talk to her at length
about some of her ideas. So uh

133
00:10:48,159 --> 00:10:50,320
yeah, she really, uh she
really, you know. And it turned

134
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:56,559
out that I'm sure you're probably familiar
with dog man encounters radio condition, right.

135
00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:01,440
Uh. There's just a lot of
people that once this was sort of

136
00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:03,639
out of the bag, people will
said, well, you know what,

137
00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,080
twenty years ago, I saw something
really weird, and it was almost like

138
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,399
it was almost like it began all
right to have a big foot encounter.

139
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,039
But man, if you saw an
upright canaan along the road, you just

140
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,320
kept your mouth shut because that's just
went way over the way over the line.

141
00:11:22,919 --> 00:11:28,679
So and another thing that you know, as you know, I recently

142
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,799
talked to Paul Sinclair. I got
to be on his two hour stream a

143
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,679
couple of weeks ago, and then
he agreed to be on my show.

144
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,320
And this guy is just just fascinating. I mean, you could you could

145
00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:46,879
actually just take a nap and let
him talk because he's just endlessly fascinating and

146
00:11:46,919 --> 00:11:50,559
you don't have to, you know, keep the conversation going. He just

147
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,919
does it. And he talks a
lot about he's more comfortable with the term

148
00:11:54,960 --> 00:12:00,120
werewolf, I think, and he
talks a lot about the Flixton werewolf and

149
00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:03,480
how far back it goes. He
there's like encounters that go back apparently hundreds

150
00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:09,480
of years. So whatever this thing
is seems to be global, and Linda

151
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:15,279
was getting reports from all over the
world after a while as well. But

152
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:20,960
one thing that it seems to characterize
this is the feeling of evil, feeling

153
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:28,919
of negativity, and I haven't really
heard that with bigfoot encounters and some other

154
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,399
cryptid encounters. So there's something,
you know, I mean, I tend

155
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,720
to think as a as Achillian that
perhaps a lot of these things are coming

156
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,720
from the same soup, so to
speak. You just manifesting in different ways.

157
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:48,759
But there seems to be some kind
of a distinction between dog man encounters

158
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:58,399
and some other cryptids. Yeah,
yeah, you know, I like I

159
00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:01,559
like what you say when when you
say, say, hey, Bigfoot's okay.

160
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,960
You know, in the nineteen seventies
there was all these bigfoot sightings,

161
00:13:07,039 --> 00:13:11,519
and it got to be kind of
okay to say that because lots of people

162
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:16,039
were saying, well, then maybe
there's you know, an unknown ape running

163
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:22,120
around in the woods in North America. That's okay, you know, but

164
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,159
you know, as soon as the
woo woo people like me come in and

165
00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:31,159
go, you know, the there's
an awful lot of descriptions of it's not

166
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,399
all the same kind of look like
a species would generally be. You know,

167
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,639
that's kind of kind of strange.
And and you know, footprints that

168
00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:43,639
start in the middle of a mud
puddle in a muddy field and then walk

169
00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:52,320
for like three yards and then disappear
again when it's uniformly muddy. That's pretty

170
00:13:54,480 --> 00:14:01,120
suspicious to me. But the boggle
threshold for for I guess normal people,

171
00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:07,200
not people like you and I is
we are not having wolf man in our

172
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,720
backyard. We are not having that
that is not to be talked about.

173
00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:16,480
We're not gonna We're not you know, we'll we'll put up with Bigfoot,

174
00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:24,600
but we're not gonna talk about an
upright cannid. And uh, that's that's

175
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,440
just that's just no, we're not
gonna have it. So I find that

176
00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:35,840
really interesting that it seems that the
boggle threshold for dog man has has loosened

177
00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:41,000
a little bit. People are now
going, well, you know, maybe

178
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,480
there is something to it because so
many people have seen it for so long.

179
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,879
Right, it's taken a while,
but uh, and you know,

180
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,679
and so many of these encounters start
out where they just thought it was a

181
00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:56,039
big, mangy dog. Yeah,
and it stands up on two legs.

182
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,639
I mean, that's just gotta be
freaky. Oh yeah, yeah. And

183
00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:03,960
then there's the what the berewolf people
have seen a couple of times something some

184
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,360
kind of a weird uh. I
think Linda did a report on one.

185
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,559
I think it was in Michigan.
This thing came up. He called it

186
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,440
a I think a what was it
a A? I think he called it

187
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,799
a berewolfers or something. It had
bear in the name, and it came

188
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,240
and it stole a deer out of
the back of his truck and walked away

189
00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:26,919
with it, and like he's gonna
go argue about that. You know,

190
00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:31,159
you know what, I can shoot
another deer. I tag that deer and

191
00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:35,720
it's it's mine. But you know, I'm not going to argue with mister

192
00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:41,399
berewolf. Yeah, he had to
have been awfully big to have a combination

193
00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:46,840
of those two in his name.
And where do these things come from?

194
00:15:46,159 --> 00:15:50,600
This big beast? I mean,
it's an area that was somewhat rural,

195
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:52,320
but not completely. There was a
lot it was. It was a fish

196
00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:56,759
lake, I think, and uh, you know it's just an under one

197
00:15:56,759 --> 00:16:00,320
of these things where they show up
and they just appeer. Yeah, they're

198
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,840
very phist. They interact with the
environment and just then grabbed a deer and

199
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,759
you know it wasn't seen again.
So you know. But and even you

200
00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:15,159
know, in another one of Linda's
books, I mean, just to compet

201
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:22,279
confound this thing further. It was
let's see nineteen ninety four. The guy

202
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,320
said he thought it was on Route
eighty one. Mike Moran and he's driving

203
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,240
along just a two lane. You
probably know this story. Oh I remember

204
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,960
his name. He sees the light
going through the woods and he thinks it's

205
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,879
going to be some crazy dude,
this is night on a four wheeler or

206
00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:42,759
whatever. And he's cruising along and
he's going to come up to the road

207
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,000
and there's a drop off about eight
or six or eight feet, and he's

208
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,080
wondering, how the heck he's going
to get this ATV down that that you

209
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,399
know, that dip, and all
of a sudden, now I don't it's

210
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,320
not clear if this thing was a
ball, just a ball of light,

211
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,960
or if this creature was glowing,
because it was kind of glowing when it

212
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,160
came across the road, but he
saw a dog man an upright hated hit

213
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,680
the road. Three steps, it
was across the road and then it was

214
00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:18,839
gone. So we've heard a lot
of stories about balls of light transforming into

215
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:26,960
something that goes kind of goes back
to Paul Devereaux in Earthlight Revelation, where

216
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,759
he taught he coined the term proto
entity where and he gives a lot of

217
00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:36,039
examples of balls of light or something
that looks like a craft or whatever,

218
00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:41,759
but then it morphs into the entity
or whatever. It's like the vehicle or

219
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:47,960
the the orb or whatever is inseparable
from the being somehow. Yeah. And

220
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,039
there's even an old mothman encounter that's
kind of like that from Kent, England,

221
00:17:52,599 --> 00:18:03,319
almost three days to the Chase of
the Mallets and Scarberries down Route sixty

222
00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:07,720
two and November fifteenth. It was
three years before in sixty three, and

223
00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:12,359
these kids were coming back from a
dance and they saw this ball of light

224
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,960
go down behind a grove of trees
and then go out, and then the

225
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:22,200
light appeared again and then went out, and then they saw this creature which

226
00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:26,079
was the closest thing to the point
pleasant mothman I've ever heard of, because

227
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,200
it looked like it didn't have a
head, it had bat like wings,

228
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,640
and it kind of shuffled along like
the mothman. There's been so many other

229
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:37,319
winged creatures or whatever that people want
to dub mothman, and I get very

230
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,880
territorial. Sometimes it's like, hey, that's not the point pleasant mothman,

231
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:47,160
damn it, you know I know
what that is. Yeah, Yeah,

232
00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:52,480
I think the guy in the pecan
tree down in Texas comes close to the

233
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:59,319
winged man thing that a family sitting
on a porch saw, Okay, but

234
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,000
it didn't have have the it had
a head. You know, it looked

235
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:07,039
like a man with wings, but
he was gray. And he was spooky

236
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:15,079
obviously because people shouldn't have wings and
be flying around. But I don't think

237
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:21,759
he had the glowing eyes. I
just think, yeah, well, you

238
00:19:21,839 --> 00:19:23,839
know, maybe he didn't need it
because he just had been a ball of

239
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:32,640
flight. So you know, one
of the things that I really find fascinating

240
00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:45,400
about these upright canid beings is that
almost every culture has a story about shape

241
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:52,119
shifting and humans shape shifting into animals, and wolves are one of the most

242
00:19:52,119 --> 00:20:00,559
common ones. And psychologically, I
wonder if that's because humans have partnered with

243
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:10,119
dogs so strongly. Like there are
people archaeologists and anthropologists who say that,

244
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:19,759
you know, humanity may not have
ever really learned agriculture without dogs because we

245
00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:26,720
would have had no really good way
to round up herds of domesticated animals,

246
00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:30,440
right, and you know, because
I mean, people can run for a

247
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:36,359
long time, but you know,
dogs are way better at that. And

248
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,960
you know, and dogs came from
wolves, and we know that. I

249
00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:45,880
think even you know, even after
we'd had dogs for you know, quite

250
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:51,440
some time before we started writing a
lot of stuff down. I'm sure everybody

251
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,200
realized that those dogs originally were those
wolves, and humans were afraid of wolves.

252
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,519
Now, I want to know if
if we were afraid of wolves because

253
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:11,359
we lived closer to the outside,
you know, at one time, and

254
00:21:11,799 --> 00:21:18,839
that's what made us afraid of them, because you know, zoologists will just

255
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:23,359
tell you now that most wolves will
never approach a human right there. They

256
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,720
are more afraid of us than we
are of them. So where did this

257
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:37,279
image, this fearsome beast, this
horrifying creature come from? And I find

258
00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:42,240
that interesting if it's maybe the dog
is the is the the good cannid,

259
00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:48,960
and then the wolf is the shadow
being, just like humans have shadows,

260
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,880
right, you know, shadow sides. Maybe that's the shadow side of a

261
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,200
dog. Yeah, I don't know. I was fascinated by that when I

262
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:02,400
was a kid. I actually a
few times I went to the library to

263
00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:11,079
research. I got the Encyclopedia Britannica
out and to learn about werewolves, and

264
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,000
it talked about how, you know, sometimes people would wear some kind of

265
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:18,279
a belt or garment, and sometimes
they would use some kind of magical herbs

266
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:23,279
or whatever. It wasn't quite the
lawn chaining werewolf, you know. The

267
00:22:23,759 --> 00:22:27,960
Now for the most part, when
people are talking about these these dog man

268
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,160
creatures are not talking about transformation.
But Linda has a couple every once in

269
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,880
a while, she's got a story
in there about somebody that claims to have

270
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:44,559
seen a transformation. Now that's one
of those areas where I kind of hit

271
00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:48,559
a wall and I'm kind of like
the uh, the people that hit a

272
00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:52,640
wall with John Keel or some of
the things accept, you know, and

273
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,440
I think, well, maybe maybe
I'm not being open enough. But that's

274
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:03,680
that's a real tough one one to
accept a physical transformation. Of course,

275
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,359
we have the the lore of the
skin Walker, which is supposed to do

276
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,799
that. And you wonder if that's
uh, if it's if it's a physical

277
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,839
transformation, if it's more of a
projection of something. I don't know,

278
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,920
but I yeah, I don't know. That's a that's a good point.

279
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,799
I don't know why. Uh you
know, uh, I guess there were

280
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:30,200
other animals that they believe people could
change into. Yeah, but but yeah,

281
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,359
the wolf seemed to be the uh, the prominent one that Yeah,

282
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:42,319
yeah, I don't necessarily Well,
okay, so you went to the library

283
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:48,680
to research where wolves they did the
same thing and I was faster say about

284
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,200
it. I know it says that
were weird, really weird. But I

285
00:23:53,279 --> 00:24:00,519
remember reading about the the disease of
lycanthropy. Oh yeah, where it's a

286
00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:04,759
mental disease where you believe that you
have become a beast, usually a wolf,

287
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:12,559
And I thought that was so fascinating. And there are cases of men

288
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:21,680
who would do these rituals like a
belt. You had an enchanted belt and

289
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,720
you put it on it was made
of wolf skin and then you could turn

290
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:32,119
into a wolf. But there are
cases of men who had like aanthropy,

291
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:37,160
or believed they had done these rituals
correctly, and they would go out and

292
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:45,160
kill other people, and some of
them were cannibals. And this is all

293
00:24:45,279 --> 00:24:49,519
written up in European history. So
I'm so excited that I learned about this.

294
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,920
I was spending the weekend with my
grandparents and we sit down to lunch.

295
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,359
And Grandma made three hot meals a
day, so she was she was

296
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,640
busy all the time. But you
know, we sit down and I said,

297
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,079
Grandpa, guess what I learned about
And he said what? And I

298
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,480
said, did you know there's a
disease called like caanthropy? And then dah

299
00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:12,799
da da da da. I started
talking about how they, you know,

300
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:18,359
attack people, and there are these
woodcut illustrations and I described them and he

301
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,640
was He just looks at me and
he went, can this this is not

302
00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:30,000
something to talk about while we eat? And I said why, He's just

303
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,680
just no. And it's not like
he was squeamish. She was a farmer,

304
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,920
you know, I helped him butcher
animals. So I was kind of

305
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,000
like, what's wrong with him?
And then I said, do you want

306
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:48,119
to hear about porphyria? And he
said no, I don't. Well,

307
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,519
there's there's another disease. There was
a case in uh oh, England.

308
00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:56,160
I can't can't pull up the details, but there's some kind of an ailment

309
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:02,519
where people grow all kinds of hair
on their faces called yeah, and I

310
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,519
think that some of those some people
were kind of locked away and seen every

311
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:08,559
once in a while, and that
would give rise to the belief of the

312
00:26:08,599 --> 00:26:17,400
local werewolf. Yeah, that's a
genetic disorder. And uh I think it

313
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:26,240
was. The King of Spain had
a person in his retinue who was afflicted

314
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:30,880
with that. It was a woman
and you know, there are portraits painted

315
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,759
of her with this long hair on
her face and hands, but she's wearing

316
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:40,359
the really beautiful court gown and and
he got for her a good marriage.

317
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,000
Actually it was the queen who did
that, but yeah, it was a

318
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:49,240
thing, and so people people would
see that and think that that was a

319
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:56,160
were wolf. But as you said, Paul Sinclair was talking about a tradition

320
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:04,799
in England of people having seen these
these upright canids going back one hundred years,

321
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:11,839
hundreds of years, right. And
he's got this great documentary called wolf

322
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,519
Lands. And I should say that
he has four books out called Truth Proof,

323
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,160
the Truth That Leaves No Proof,
four volumes, and one called Night

324
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:30,359
People I Believe, which is autobiographical. And tell people avoid Amazon US and

325
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:33,559
UK. They're going to third party
pirates. I'm fine with capitalism, but

326
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:37,400
man, these guys are gouging to
death. If you go, you can.

327
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:42,519
I don't have the actual website,
but if you google Paul Sinclair Books

328
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:48,599
UK, I think you'll find where
you can buy his books direct from the

329
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,759
UK. The shipping might be a
little pricey, but the price of the

330
00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:59,079
books are going to be reasonable.
And I've ordered the fourth Truth Proof and

331
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:04,440
the Night People because it wasn't didn't
show it available in anything other than kindle

332
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:07,480
here, and I'd love to have
the book in my hands, so those

333
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:11,599
are on the way. And I've
also ordered a hard copy of the wolf

334
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:18,119
Lands documentary, but you can stream
that for just a few bucks on Amazon

335
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:25,039
US or Amazon UK. And it's
absolutely I told Paul how well it was

336
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:30,960
done. The production values are amazing, the editing, the music composed for

337
00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:37,640
it, and the way the narrative
unfolds. He interviews several people that have

338
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,599
had encounters with this beast, whatever
it is, and again Paul's more comfortable

339
00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:49,119
with calling it a werewolm, and
he takes you around to these people and

340
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,960
he jumps back and forth to the
different witnesses, and it's with the purpose

341
00:28:55,359 --> 00:29:00,279
of showing the patterns that are there, the similarities. And when you see

342
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:03,720
these people talk about their experiences,
they were terrified, These are these are

343
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,519
very sincere people, and it's it's
just so well done. It's so atmospheric.

344
00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:12,799
Uh, It's it's like kind of
like watching a horror movie, you

345
00:29:12,839 --> 00:29:17,880
know, a well done horror movie, but it's it's based on something real

346
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,880
and I hardly recommend people watch it
or or order it. And it's just

347
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:27,960
again, just amazingly well put together. Yeah. Yeah, he's a good

348
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:36,880
writer. I've read Truth Proof up
to three and The Night People. I

349
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:42,200
was dumb and read The Night People
first. It was super creepy and and

350
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:49,400
it boy was it creepy. So
you know, I was I took notes

351
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:55,119
in it for for my research,
and you know, I was just kind

352
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,279
of like, oh my god,
I'm afraid of the other ones. But

353
00:29:56,319 --> 00:30:02,480
they're much less. I mean,
they're still fascinating. They're about his uh

354
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:10,359
encounters and investigations of UFOs in Yorkshire
and the surrounding areas up in the north

355
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,359
of England. But it isn't as
scary. I mean, yeah, there's

356
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:17,240
a couple of times when you when
it's scary and you're like, oh,

357
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:19,680
well, okay, yeah, maybe
I shouldn't have read this at night.

358
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:26,119
I'm dumb. But well, he
talks about the Flixton werewolf, he talks

359
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:32,480
about large black panthersh He's chronicled and
even photographed a lot of strange lights orbs

360
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:36,720
on the land and out to sea. Uh. And these are not you

361
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:42,599
know, uh lanterns, Chinese lanterns
or or flares or anything like that,

362
00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:45,920
and it just you're just really well
told. I mean you feel like you're

363
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,279
you're there with him on the cliffs
experiencing this, you know. Yeah,

364
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:53,519
and then he in his books,
he uh he uh, he has just

365
00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:57,359
a very nice approach with people,
and he's made all kinds of inroads.

366
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:03,160
Uh. He can go to some
of the uh uh captains that run boats

367
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:07,559
and he can look at their logs, you know, and and and see

368
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:11,759
what they've gone out to perform a
rescue or whatever. And he talks about

369
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:15,759
missing people out of it. It
is like us of David Politis missing four

370
00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:19,640
one one and this is north and
East Yorkshire and uh, you know,

371
00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:26,680
get concentrated in a relatively small area, but incredibly active and uh, you

372
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,880
know, he's just he just has
such a great way with him with himself.

373
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,079
He's just such a down to earth
guy. Yeah, and uh,

374
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,640
just very very credible. Oh yeah, I think so too. And there

375
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:44,200
are lights on and in the water
too and under the water. Well it

376
00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:48,000
talks about like a triangle, yeah, with the light on each corner just

377
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,720
under the water. Yeah. And
then he says it's so creepy, yes,

378
00:31:53,039 --> 00:31:56,720
And he says, in one case
there were some kind of UFOs whoever

379
00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:01,680
plunging into the water, but it
was shadow there even at high tide.

380
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:05,920
It didn't make any sense. You
know, where were they going, right,

381
00:32:06,039 --> 00:32:10,799
why did they disappear? It's not
that far down. Yeah, yeah,

382
00:32:10,039 --> 00:32:15,640
I really like his books and and
he there are also lots of other

383
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:22,079
weird you know, there's some strange
humanoids and and just all kinds of stuff

384
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:28,400
happening. And it's animal mutilations.
Oh yes, they're sheep. A lot

385
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:34,480
a lot of sheep mutilations, and
some seem to be surgical. You know

386
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:37,880
that people want to blame it on
these large black panthers, but it doesn't

387
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:44,160
always make sense. And oftentimes,
just like other sometimes bigfoot reports where animals

388
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,359
are slaughtered chickens or whatever, they're
not eating, they're just slaughtered. Yeah.

389
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:52,960
Yeah, it's like like Keel when
he talked about uh, you know,

390
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:57,559
these things sort of coming into existence, sort of acting like animals while

391
00:32:57,559 --> 00:33:00,519
they're here, and then melting away. Yeah. Yeah, Like they are

392
00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:06,079
physical for a very short period of
time, right, and they leave physical

393
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:10,240
traces, but then they just the
traces just end, the footprints end,

394
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:17,240
the you know, it doesn't make
sense the animal you know, disappearances or

395
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:24,279
mutilations stop right, And yeah,
it's it's disturbing. All of it's very

396
00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:29,440
disturbing. And Paul's very open.
I mean a lot of times you'll question,

397
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,599
you know, how can this be
a physical animal? You know why

398
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,880
when because it kind of disappears,
it goes away. Are we dealing with

399
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,480
something another type of reality that we
step into or whatever. So he's always

400
00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:47,240
asking these questions and trying to deal
with the reality of the way these things

401
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:53,400
exist and manifest. Yeah, yeah, it's he's a very very thorough researcher.

402
00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:58,440
And you're right. I like the
way that he writes because it's very

403
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,920
immediate, so you can you can
feel and and see. His descriptive ability

404
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,639
is very strong. I really really
enjoy his work. So eventually I'm going

405
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,159
to have to have him on the
on the podcast. Yeah, you'll you'll,

406
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:17,480
like I say, you can probably
go just take a nap and listen

407
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,760
to it later because he's he's just
so good. You know, you don't

408
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,360
have to prompt him. You know, I had I wanted to stop him

409
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,840
every once in a while because I
had a question. But uh, there's

410
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,760
so there's a uh just so many
he had this uh, this one incident

411
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,719
I won't go into it too much. I want people to uh listen to

412
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,320
him tell it or read the book. But in the first book, remember

413
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:45,320
he has that weird he and his
wife encounter that weird man that bicycle.

414
00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:49,199
Yep, yes, yep, yes. He said, you're bringing down the

415
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,880
light. Yeah, you're you're you're
angering people or whatever. And so I

416
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,920
got Paul to tell that story towards
the end of the the interview and I

417
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,119
said, well, and this guy
was so weird, and I said,

418
00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:04,159
well, Paul, you are bringing
down the light and you're making a lot

419
00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:07,280
of people angry, you know,
officialdom and even the average person that doesn't

420
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,679
want to deal with this. So
it's kind of funny that this whoever this

421
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,039
dude was, he was right on
the mark because that's what Paul has been

422
00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:17,320
doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will definitely have him tell that

423
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,559
story because that was what I was
thinking of when I said the strange humanoids

424
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:29,360
or whatever's you know. Although he
did have the experience with his cousin and

425
00:35:29,639 --> 00:35:32,280
the dude at the rock when he
was a kid, and that was see

426
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,599
so creepy. Yeah yeah. And
then there was a classic man in black

427
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:39,880
encounter with I don't remember the guy's
name, but a friend and colleague of

428
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,199
his. The guy had seen some
kind of a UFO or light, and

429
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:49,760
these dudes came to the door with
no eyebrows, addressed like classic men in

430
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,280
black, telling him he's got to
stop his research. And I'm thinking,

431
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:58,199
you know, every once in a
while you come across you know who,

432
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:04,079
Linde sigmund Is, Yeah, okay. More she came forward more recently with

433
00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:08,840
her a mothman sighting from well,
it was April of sixty seven, I

434
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,440
think she said she was about sixteen, and she and her boyfriend were sitting

435
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,199
on the front of the hood of
a car watching the stars. They saw

436
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,800
this orb show up, and then
they saw another one. He decided,

437
00:36:21,119 --> 00:36:23,840
I'm really abbreaviating this. He wanted
to get the heck out of there.

438
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,519
And they're driving away and she's looking
out out the window and she sees this

439
00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:36,079
mothmanlike creature next to one of these
lights. And the thing is that she

440
00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:40,039
even had missing time. But the
sort of the PostScript to all this was

441
00:36:40,519 --> 00:36:45,840
the beginning of December. The same
December sixty seven when the bridge collapsed.

442
00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:50,559
In twenty fifteen, and that's coming
up the anniversary is coming up in a

443
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:57,599
few days. That's just taping.
She was downtown Point Pleasant and she saw

444
00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:02,920
this strange man standing outside a building
and he was in classic, you know,

445
00:37:04,039 --> 00:37:08,239
fedora black clothes. And she got
closer she noticed his skin was had

446
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:13,519
a weird pallor had a weird coloring, and it was wearing sunglasses at night.

447
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,239
And then she looked down the street
and there was another one of these

448
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,199
guys leaning up against a light pole. And I think, you know it

449
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,960
was And I said, when did
you? When did this click as to

450
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,840
what this was? It was wasn't
until she read the mock Band Prophecies by

451
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,320
John Keel some time later that she
thought, oh my god, that's what

452
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:37,559
I experienced. So it's weird because
we tend to want to try to explain

453
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:42,440
these as you know, just government
types or just some creep that was hanging

454
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,800
out, you know and causing trouble. But man, you know, you

455
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:52,400
get into some of these encounters and
there's something just totally bizarre there that's that's

456
00:37:52,440 --> 00:38:00,280
almost incomprehensible. Yeah, yeah,
the the unearthly power or the lack of

457
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:10,559
eyebrows, kind of weirdly plastic looking
skin like really artificially smooth looking, you

458
00:38:10,599 --> 00:38:14,320
know, because you guys, you
don't like, you know, fix your

459
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,280
pores and stuff. You just you
just wash your face and you go right.

460
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,039
And I do the same thing.
But you know, most men don't

461
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:29,840
have that perfectly smooth skin, you
know, And that is something that I

462
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,440
would notice immediately. I mean,
they all have that kind of uncanny Valley

463
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:37,639
look. It's like, well,
they're they're like a guy. They look

464
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,400
like a guy, they look like
a and then they get too close and

465
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,880
then you go, wait a minute, yeah something, and then the the

466
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:50,719
sometimes the movements the way that they
just can't And I even wondered, I

467
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,599
think due to some of Nick Redford's
research, I wondered if some of these

468
00:38:55,159 --> 00:39:00,480
these characters were actually sent out by
a faction of the government to behave in

469
00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:04,639
strange ways to kind of throw people
off. I mean, the government does

470
00:39:04,679 --> 00:39:12,760
all kinds of bizarre tests and yeah
and schemes that they eventually forget about or

471
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,360
whatever. But I just wonder if
they sent out maybe hundreds of these clowns

472
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:21,239
to act weird and figuring that some
of them would be picked up into the

473
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,559
lore. But that doesn't explain everything, No, it doesn't. It doesn't.

474
00:39:27,199 --> 00:39:30,519
So have there been any kind of
men in black encounters that go with

475
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,840
dog man sightings or wolfman sightings?
Oh, well, that's a good question.

476
00:39:36,599 --> 00:39:39,519
Not that I know of. They
seem to have shown up with some

477
00:39:39,559 --> 00:39:45,679
of the bigfoot reports. If you
look at the Stan Gordon silent invasion,

478
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:53,039
there were men that showed up and
seeming to destroy evidence. And there was

479
00:39:53,079 --> 00:40:00,719
that crazy case where the guy took
a shot. He didn't actually shoot them,

480
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:07,119
he was a used tracer of the
shells over these bizarre looking bigfoots after

481
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:14,039
seeing this strange craft seemingly to land
and uh, it was so crazy.

482
00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:20,239
The the uh, the local uh
state state cop actually saw one of them

483
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,119
in the dark and uh later on
standing his team came out. This guy

484
00:40:24,199 --> 00:40:30,280
had a weird spell and collapsed and
uh he was growling and everything, and

485
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,679
yeah, he thought he was possessing
him or something. But he had a

486
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,719
he had a vision of a man
in a cloak and had all kinds of

487
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:42,719
uh, had all kinds of predictions, but he didn't remember any of it.

488
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,199
I mean, it's it's just more
complicated than that. But you had

489
00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:49,880
strange lights, you had these bigfoot
creatures that that seemed to vanish. But

490
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,800
then afterwards, uh, they stand
in his team wanted to put him under

491
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,559
hypnosis, and they thought, well, with that weird spell he had,

492
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,920
maybe we better just leave it alone
for a while. And I think it

493
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,119
was as much as two years later
they came to him and they said,

494
00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:07,320
would you mind if we put you
under hypnosis during that? And he said,

495
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,760
what do you mean. You guys
came back two weeks later and a

496
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:17,119
man dressed like an Air Force officer
and a man in playing clothes implied apparently

497
00:41:17,159 --> 00:41:22,039
they were Stan's team, and they
put him other hypnosis, said we'll get

498
00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:24,079
back to you. Of course they
didn't, and he said they even showed

499
00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:30,599
him this, this portfolio with photographs
of bigfoot like creatures and UFOs. At

500
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:34,800
least this is what he claimed.
They wanted to know if what he saw

501
00:41:35,039 --> 00:41:37,000
looked like any of these pictures.
So, you know, I don't know

502
00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:39,639
what to make of that, but
that's sort of your you know, key

503
00:41:39,679 --> 00:41:46,320
you talk about the man in black
as a generic term, not necessarily,

504
00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:52,760
you know, in dressed in the
black garbe. But so, yeah,

505
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,800
this is a well, that's a
good question. I wouldn't be surprised if

506
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:02,480
there there have been some, but
you know, was that weird case and

507
00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:08,599
the Linda talks about in the beginning
of the Beesterbury Road where I think it's

508
00:42:08,679 --> 00:42:14,639
Lori and Drezzy was one of the
original witnesses that brought it to Linda's attention,

509
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,480
And then she was writing for the
week was a little local newspaper,

510
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:22,480
and she went to the local sheriff
and found out he had a file that

511
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:30,000
said werewolf because he'd been getting these
reports. But she was talking to John

512
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,039
andres No John, I can't think
it was his last name, but he

513
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:38,719
was at the animal control officer,
and she thought she had the impression that

514
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,239
this thing was very negative or whatever. He was skeptical about the whole thing,

515
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,960
but they were talking about they started
talking about the possibility of some kind

516
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,599
of cult being involved, and then
all of a sudden, several books flew

517
00:42:50,639 --> 00:42:54,480
out of the shelf in the office
and nobody had slammed the door or anything

518
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:58,760
like that. So now here you're
just talking about it. I mean,

519
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:04,119
how many times have we heard uh
things about poltergeist phenomena or something. I

520
00:43:04,159 --> 00:43:07,360
mean, how many people that saw
the mothman had an outbreak of poltergeist?

521
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:14,280
Phenomena afterwards, and how do we
reconcile this as a flesh and blood unknown

522
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:19,559
creature, you know. So yeah, it just it just seems like you

523
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:25,159
dropped the pebble in the water and
these the the rings go out and they

524
00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:30,400
just they just keep going and they
touch all kinds of different things. It's

525
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,880
this not nothing is static, you
know, it's it's uh, it's just

526
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,159
there's so many uh uh. Now
when you mentioned uh, you know,

527
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:44,960
footprints appearing out in the middle of
nowhere, that brings me back to Lee

528
00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:50,280
Hample. Now, Lee Hample has
a farm. He he was a uh

529
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,960
well degrees in mathematics and chemistry.
He taught mathematics for decades in Illinois.

530
00:43:55,519 --> 00:44:00,079
And this guy's a scientist. So
he, uh he got this farm over

531
00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:07,679
ten years ago and he's making hay. That sounds funny, but he's you

532
00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:14,079
know, enjoying his retirement and making
a little money and keeping busy. And

533
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:16,159
some of his neighbors said, you
know, there's a werewolf that lives in

534
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:21,400
those woods back there. He's looking
at him like, what are you talking

535
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,480
about? And then several credible people
were telling him what they had seen.

536
00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:29,800
And then one night he saw it. He saw it in the dark,

537
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,440
and later on he realized he was
missing about an hour of time, so

538
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,320
he started setting up trap cameras.
He's got thousands of photographs. I've been

539
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,000
able to speak at the Beast of
Bray Road conference a couple of times.

540
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,280
And what they do is people that
go to that the Lee Hamp will have

541
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:51,679
him over to his farm just for
a small fee and for two hours he'll

542
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,800
show you photographs he's taken with trap
cameras and all the bizarre things that are

543
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:01,599
going on. So you have I
mean, he's got these footprints in one

544
00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:06,400
case in the snow. They start
in the middle of nowhere, and then

545
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:12,599
they split off, almost like this
thing divided like an amoeba into two of

546
00:45:12,639 --> 00:45:15,039
them, or maybe his buddy was
on his shoulders, you know, when

547
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:23,760
they manifested. But it's and then
they disappear, and they're five toes,

548
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,320
five toes, a pad, and
a heel. And he says when he

549
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,079
looks at these tracks, he thinks
there's maybe four or five different creatures because

550
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:37,719
they're not all exactly the same.
And whenever he tries to I mean,

551
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:42,639
he leaves. These things act like
animals. They eat bait, they eat

552
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:49,039
roadkill. He sets up cameras with
the bait. The cameras don't function for

553
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:52,519
the most part when they're there.
He's gotten like I think he's actually gotten

554
00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:54,679
some pictures of them. He keeps
a lot of these things close to his

555
00:45:54,760 --> 00:46:00,639
vest and that there are some where
you can see part of like ear or

556
00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:02,800
whatever. I guess it could be
Scooby Doo or something, but I don't

557
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:07,920
think so. But he's got something. But then he's got there's some kind

558
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,280
of technology or something going on.
There's like there's drones of the sky.

559
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,280
There's things that that look like they
might be a portal, some kind of

560
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:21,880
energy ball or whatever. There just
there are things that are almost incomprehensible when

561
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:27,159
you There was this one image where
you see something that looks like a black

562
00:46:27,199 --> 00:46:31,119
snake sort of suspended in the sky, but it's just or cord or something.

563
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,639
And then he moves the over to
the other side of the picture and

564
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,320
there is a kind of a boxy
looking thing with with balls on it or

565
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,920
wheels or something kind of suspended in
the air, and you're trying to make

566
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:50,039
it make sense of this. There
is something something bizarre going on. I

567
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:52,199
don't know if it's a place where
the air is thin, so to speak,

568
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,840
or if it's a grand central station
between dimensions. He had another another

569
00:46:58,679 --> 00:47:04,519
photograph of a class flying saucer,
a black flying saucer zipping around a tree.

570
00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:07,199
You can tell by the time stamp, but it was just like a

571
00:47:07,199 --> 00:47:10,320
matter of a few seconds and it
just like it appears, zips around and

572
00:47:10,519 --> 00:47:17,639
is gone. He has had now
he was He's let me use some of

573
00:47:17,679 --> 00:47:24,159
his images. He put some of
them on Coast to Coast am and he

574
00:47:24,159 --> 00:47:28,159
he gave me he was on my
show and he liked the way it went,

575
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,360
so he allowed me to use some
of his photographs and presentations. But

576
00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:37,639
the ones I don't have is he's
had several road killed deer because of the

577
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:42,920
highway he's on. Well, he's
pulled him on his property. He sets

578
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,800
up a shraft camera and it's night
and you can see a misst show up

579
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,239
with the time stamp, and then
the carcass is gone, no drag marks,

580
00:47:54,280 --> 00:48:00,559
no footprints. And this has happened
maybe a dozen times. It's just,

581
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,199
you know, it's it's just mind
blowing. And so you know,

582
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,199
I wonder what I've tried to speculate
as to what's going on. Is there

583
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:13,400
really some kind of other intelligence there
are they? You know, if we

584
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:19,760
think about tulpas and monsters from the
ID and and all that sort of thing.

585
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,119
You know, a wonder do these
things create these constructs, these temporal

586
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:28,719
beings. Maybe they don't just happen
and they're supposed to scare people away,

587
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,840
you know, now, if that's
there, if that wild speculation is correct,

588
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:37,280
they might be all wet because people
are flocking there to see these things,

589
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,880
so they're not really scaring people away, they're attracting them. But you

590
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,079
know, it just can't it's so
hard to wrap my head around now.

591
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,360
And then I don't know if you
know the Bucks County guys, Eric Mentel

592
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:55,119
investigates, Okay, they were out
there a couple of years ago along with

593
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,280
Ellen Collins, and it was Eric
Mantel and Dominic Setel. Dominic As they're

594
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:10,519
sensitive and they were out there and
at night and they they start to hear

595
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:15,800
this howling. You know, they've
got it on their YouTube video. You

596
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,119
hear this howling off to one side
and then howling over here. Creepy as

597
00:49:20,119 --> 00:49:24,519
hell. Now, I wouldn't be
able to tell you an animal howl from

598
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,639
Marsupial. You know, I just
wouldn't be able to do it. So

599
00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:32,719
but they were saying eyeshine about six
feet off the ground. They also be

600
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:37,840
prior to that, they actually saw
a lightless guy they thought was a satellite,

601
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,440
and then all of a sudden zipped
across the sky and then a mysts

602
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:45,159
started to form, and the mysts
have there. There's a photograph of Lee

603
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,880
Hample in the daylight. There's a
mist surrounding him on the picture, but

604
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,199
he didn't see it when he was
there, so, you know, mist

605
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:58,360
around that place. It could have
been just basic atmospheric conditions. You know,

606
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,239
it had rained earlier in the general
area, so maybe that was it.

607
00:50:01,639 --> 00:50:07,360
But they were really getting freaked out, and even Eric, who usually

608
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,840
doesn't these things, don't bother them. So I asked dominic on my show.

609
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,360
I said, Dominique, what were
you feeling like out there being the

610
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:19,000
sensitive And he said, I felt
like I was in a short tank underwater

611
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,920
holding the bait. And they decided
they were going to get out of there.

612
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:28,159
They just they had enough and they
weren't there very long. So and

613
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,880
the ironic thing is a week later, they're in the pine barrens, or

614
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,599
like five miles deep into the pine
barrens with a couple of seasoned bigfoot researchers

615
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,679
and they're hearing things like whoops and
knocking and all that sort of thing,

616
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,760
and Dominic felt like it was a
day at the beach. He wasn't freaking

617
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,000
out at all. It was just
very calm. There was something about that

618
00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:52,400
experience that really really and I could
hear things moving in the corn. Yeah,

619
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:58,559
well, corn's creepy anyway, that's
right. Stephen King ruined corn for

620
00:50:58,599 --> 00:51:05,400
everybody. Yes, that's right.
But yeah, Now does Lee have problems

621
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:10,400
with like poltergeist stuff on his farm
or in his house? That's a good

622
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:16,280
question. Oh well, when when
we were there with cars were parked there,

623
00:51:16,639 --> 00:51:22,639
a friend of mine's car lights started
a flash, you know, like

624
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:28,199
if Yeah, and even when she
went to a motel that night, she

625
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,440
said they were still flashing into the
wind. You know, it was one

626
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,679
of these motels where the door is
right there that the car was still the

627
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,280
light. The lights were still flashing, and that happens to a lot of

628
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:44,239
cars in that area. So I
haven't heard of anything like poltergeist phenomena in

629
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:49,000
his house. But he had had
another another issue with missing time at another

630
00:51:49,079 --> 00:51:53,280
time, and he's seen this thing
two or three times and even got a

631
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,519
photograph of it from a distance.
I mean, you can see it at

632
00:51:57,639 --> 00:52:00,440
arm's length. That doesn't look very
high. But he had some kind of

633
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,960
a program that would tell you how
tall this thing it was, and it

634
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,280
was six feet tall, and you
could see it. Sometimes it was huntered

635
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,960
down on all fours and sometimes it
was standing on two. This is in

636
00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:17,480
broad daylight. So there's something truly
bizarre going on there. But I said,

637
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:25,039
what I can't wrap my head around
is this this incredible conjunction with apparently

638
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:30,239
some kind of technology, uh guide, and there's some kind of an intelligence

639
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:37,280
there that is helping to cloak and
hide these things from the cameras. Yeah,

640
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,239
and when and Eric said, when
they were out there that night,

641
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:44,280
the cameras completely failed, didn't take
any pictures of them when they were out

642
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,480
there. Yeah. Yeah, they've
had problems with that out at Skinwalker Ranch

643
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:54,239
too, right, Yeah, that
you know cameras, they'll place cameras and

644
00:52:55,039 --> 00:53:00,440
stick them down with duct tape and
electrical tape and all kinds of stuff,

645
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:05,239
and it'll get ripped off way up
you know, twenty feet up a pole

646
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,199
that had its slippery and you know
all of that kind of stuff. And

647
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:13,519
I mean, there's a part of
me is like, dudes, it's gonna

648
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:16,320
not let you take pictures. It's
just not. It's not gonna. Now,

649
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:21,679
you should keep trying, but don't
be surprised that you don't ever get

650
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:28,400
a picture. That's that classic case
that I remember listening to Colin Kellerher and

651
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,679
George Knapp on the Coast to Coast
a m with Art Bell years ago when

652
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:37,679
before even the book The Hunter for
the skin Walker was written, and we

653
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,639
get these tantalizing stories about what was
going on out there. And that was

654
00:53:40,679 --> 00:53:45,039
when they had something like four or
five cameras way up on the poles,

655
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:50,559
aimed in an area that was a
had a lot of activity, and one

656
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:53,039
camera stayed operating, as I remember, and they went back to look at

657
00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:58,360
that footage and they could see some
of the like the red dot on some

658
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,119
of the other cameras, and they
could see when the red dot went out,

659
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:07,119
but they couldn't couldn't get the resolution
to see that they that they had

660
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:13,320
and it wasn't just an internal mechanical
failure or electrical failure. Like you say

661
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,320
that the uh, the cables were
ripped out, Yeah, physically ripped,

662
00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:23,719
Yeah, violently. That's That's one
of the things that that struck me about

663
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:34,280
it is that it was not just
disconnected or the battery taken out or the

664
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,519
battery drained. No, it was
torn. They were torn up. You

665
00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:43,559
know, the the whatever they used
to adhere it to the poll would get

666
00:54:43,639 --> 00:54:49,199
ripped apart, and then pieces of
the camera itself would be torn. And

667
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:55,559
so yeah, that's that's also an
intimidation tactic. That suggests a direct intelligence

668
00:54:55,559 --> 00:55:00,840
and consciousness that knows exactly what's going
on. And they took a direct route

669
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:06,199
to stop it. Yeah, yeah, took a very direct route. And

670
00:55:06,639 --> 00:55:12,280
you know, again that's an intimidation
tactic. It also worked to terrorize the

671
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:17,719
humans who it apparently thought of as
its enemy, right, whatever it is.

672
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:24,000
Well, remember the incident where I
guess this is again before I think

673
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:29,960
Bigelow still had a presence there,
and it was before it might have even

674
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,599
been before Bigelow purchased a ranch.
But because some of this had gotten out

675
00:55:34,679 --> 00:55:38,719
in the newspaper, and there was
a guy that made a pilgrimage there because

676
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:44,079
he felt at one with the ranch
and he wanted to meditate, and so

677
00:55:45,039 --> 00:55:46,920
sherman, the father and the son
kind of looked at each other and said,

678
00:55:47,199 --> 00:55:50,639
okay, have edit. You know. So he goes out there on

679
00:55:50,679 --> 00:55:54,800
the field and he starts to meditate, and they see this thing that like

680
00:55:54,840 --> 00:56:00,599
a blur, and later on they
said it looked like the Predator effect from

681
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:04,639
the film Predator. And if there's
something, they couldn't really focus on it

682
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,119
very well, but it came out
and it was like, it was angry

683
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:12,480
at what this guy was doing.
And all this guy is doing is meditating,

684
00:56:12,519 --> 00:56:15,119
thinking good thoughts. But whatever this
was didn't like it, and it

685
00:56:15,199 --> 00:56:19,480
freaked this guy out and he couldn't
wait to get off the property. But

686
00:56:19,599 --> 00:56:24,360
you know, what the heck is
that all about. My guess is that

687
00:56:25,039 --> 00:56:32,039
whatever it is is based not in
carbon. In other words, it's not

688
00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:39,599
always solid. It's probably energy and
it probably could sense that he was doing

689
00:56:39,639 --> 00:56:45,119
something that changed the energy of its
environment, and it was having none of

690
00:56:45,159 --> 00:56:49,840
that. It was like, oh, no, how dare you? This

691
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,639
is mine? You think thoughts,
Yes, this is mine. You don't

692
00:56:52,679 --> 00:57:00,840
get to come here and and mess
with my stuff with out my permission.

693
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,960
You didn't even ask, you know, so I'm going to run you off.

694
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,679
Not I'm not saying I would go
and ask permission and be able to,

695
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:09,440
you know, sit and meditate.
I wouldn't even think that that was

696
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:16,960
a great idea. But there are
some non corporeal beings that are very very

697
00:57:17,239 --> 00:57:25,920
territorial, like wolves and dogs.
Just saying and the according to some of

698
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,559
the reports, and you don't know
how how reliable some of them are.

699
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:36,880
People have seen orbs of light manifest
into wolves there. And uh, of

700
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,000
course there was the story in the
beginning of the hunt, the big walker,

701
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:45,800
the big beast that attacked a some
of their livestock, and they kept

702
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,559
firing at it. It wasn't you
know, it wasn't causing any problems,

703
00:57:49,559 --> 00:57:52,079
and it just walked away. In
of course, the Prince ended in the

704
00:57:52,199 --> 00:57:55,400
in the swamp somewhere. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean they shot a piece

705
00:57:55,440 --> 00:58:01,800
of its flesh off, but it
didn't like stay. See. That's that's

706
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:06,480
the part where I'm like, Okay, it's time to go now. I

707
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,480
don't care that we just bought this. We're not staying here tonight. Nope,

708
00:58:10,159 --> 00:58:15,400
nope, nope, nope. Another
thing about the dog Man a few

709
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,239
years ago, I was at a
Michigan Uphon meeting and a gentleman that was

710
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:27,920
a retired the Wayne State University professor
talked about his research in Michigan into Bigfoot

711
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:31,400
and UFOs, and he sounded a
lot like Jack. I think it's Jack

712
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:37,400
Lebsradis that wrote Psychic Bigfoot and the
Sasquatch People or whatever. I mean,

713
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:39,639
this was some pretty wild stuff,
but he's a really down to earth guy.

714
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,360
But the thing that caught my attention
was he said, you know,

715
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,280
we keep finding these large doglike footprints
in these high strangess areas, And I

716
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,800
thought, well, where have I
heard that before? Well, it turned

717
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,440
out I heard it in a mockman
prophecy. Yep. If John Keele talks

718
00:58:53,480 --> 00:59:00,599
about the and other articles, he
talks about dog like footprints around the the

719
00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:07,360
old Norse power plant, and also
where Tad Jones saw that bizarre retro ufo

720
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:13,400
with the propeller on the bottom and
the weird yeah cross lanes, the weird

721
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:17,960
guy beside it with the weird shoe
soles. You know, it's funny.

722
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:24,159
The last time I read that,
I looked up the name of the man

723
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:30,360
who had first investigated it before Keel
got there. He worked at the same

724
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:37,079
place my dad worked up at Union
Carbides Tech Center, so my dad knew

725
00:59:37,079 --> 00:59:40,360
the guy and I thought about it, and I was like, you know,

726
00:59:40,519 --> 00:59:45,599
that's that's the guy that that my
dad said was like really down to

727
00:59:45,639 --> 00:59:51,440
earth and sensible and not prone to
flights of fancy. And he was.

728
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,480
He was also the only guy that
my dad would say, hey, you

729
00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:58,960
know, have you seen the weird
lights over the other side of the valley

730
00:59:59,039 --> 01:00:02,239
because my dad used to stand outside
during lunch. He worked overnight, so

731
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:07,039
lunch was you know, deep dark, right, and you know, he'd

732
01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:10,960
tell him about the weird lights that
he was watching, and sometimes they'd watch

733
01:00:12,039 --> 01:00:16,639
together. But yeah, that was
I never have forgotten that there were those

734
01:00:16,679 --> 01:00:22,960
giant dog prints and cross lanes.
And then remember he consulted with Ivan Sanderson,

735
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,199
and Ivan Sanders said, yeah,
we keep finding him, and you

736
01:00:25,239 --> 01:00:29,400
wish there was a whole chapter devoted
to that, or at least a couple

737
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,360
of pages. Yeah, but that's
where it ends. Yeah. So I

738
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:36,039
asked Linda Godfrey about it and she
said yes. And the one thing she

739
01:00:36,079 --> 01:00:37,559
did say, you said, you
have to be really careful these days because

740
01:00:37,559 --> 01:00:42,320
there are people out there faking dog
man footprints. You know, you have

741
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,440
to be careful you're not taken in. But here you have fort researchers separated

742
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:51,599
by half a century, all telling
us that we're finding these large dog like

743
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:55,440
footprints, whether we're actually seeing the
culprit or not, in these high stranges

744
01:00:55,599 --> 01:01:02,320
areas. So it's something that is
connected all this and has been with us

745
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:07,000
for quite some time. Yeah,
yeah, and it's I do also think

746
01:01:07,039 --> 01:01:13,599
that it's interesting that dogs tend to
be afraid of Bigfoot. You know,

747
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:19,519
the one when we had the howling
whatever it was in the woods that sounded

748
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:24,880
like Bigfoot almost twenty years ago,
when we lived in another part of Ohio,

749
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:30,599
our dogs were terrified. They and
they were not afraid of anything,

750
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:37,559
you know, they were they were
big and strong and generally not well.

751
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:43,360
Okay, Naniko was afraid of people
except for us, but the other one

752
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:51,000
feared nothing, and they hunkered down
and just basically tried to hide. So

753
01:01:51,159 --> 01:01:52,599
you know, of course I had
to go out and bring them in.

754
01:01:53,840 --> 01:02:00,119
But yeah, dogs generally either start
barking crazily when they're some kind of bigfoot

755
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:06,800
activity, or they're terrified. And
then there's cases with bigfoot eating dogs or

756
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:15,559
mothman or something or UFOs. So
although in some cases I've heard where all

757
01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:19,079
of a sudden, the dogs get
very quiet, yeah, when when some

758
01:02:19,199 --> 01:02:24,960
bizarre stuff is going on. So
but but the either way, I mean,

759
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:31,159
that's still uh. People need to
pay attention to the the the responses

760
01:02:31,159 --> 01:02:37,280
of animals when these things are going
on, because that's just another validation that

761
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:42,679
there's some kind of paranormal phenomena or
something unexplained going on. Yeah. Oh,

762
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:50,400
I just got a book by Linda
Zimmerman called Animal Reactions to UFOs.

763
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:57,360
It's a very small book. She
it's a it's but it's it basically is

764
01:02:57,519 --> 01:03:05,159
sort of a starter to get your
ideas running in the direction of how different

765
01:03:05,239 --> 01:03:12,800
animals have responded to UFO sightings or
experiences. And she's really interesting because she

766
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,719
says, you know, animals are
the perfect UFO witnesses because they don't hallucinate

767
01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:23,119
the way people do. They don't
lie, you know, so there's no

768
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:30,719
confabulation happening. You know, they're
essentially honest, and they have stronger senses

769
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:36,599
than we do, so you know, they can hear things above and below

770
01:03:36,719 --> 01:03:43,159
our ability to hear things. They
can see things in slightly different lighting conditions

771
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:52,480
and they can apparently feel vibrations better
than we can. So I thought that

772
01:03:52,639 --> 01:03:55,800
was really interesting. And that's you
know, I'm about halfway through it right

773
01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:00,400
now. Yeah, I didn't know. I'm familiar with some of her other

774
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:05,239
books. She was on my show
a while back, and you know the

775
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:11,159
Hudson Valley sightings. Yeah, yeah, specialty yah. Yeah. And a

776
01:04:11,239 --> 01:04:14,599
lot of the sightings in this book
are from New York, but she has

777
01:04:14,719 --> 01:04:18,199
plenty of others from elsewhere. And
she even has this one kind of odd

778
01:04:18,239 --> 01:04:24,280
sighting. There's a man who worked
a toll booth on a bridge on the

779
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:30,079
night shift and is very boring.
And so there were you know, wild

780
01:04:30,199 --> 01:04:32,679
rabbits that you know, lived off
at the side of the road and the

781
01:04:32,719 --> 01:04:36,519
grass and they'd come out and eat, and you know, he took to

782
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:42,360
throwing them vegetables just to have something
to watch, you know, so they

783
01:04:42,639 --> 01:04:47,960
you know, eat the vegetables.
And one night he went to throw them

784
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:54,719
their vegetables and they were laying in
the grass, stretched out and they were

785
01:04:54,760 --> 01:05:02,360
completely motionless. And he was shocked. Thought somebody had killed them or you

786
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,719
know, why they would all die
in the same you know, general area

787
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:11,519
and stretched out like that was also
disturbing. So he came out of his

788
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:16,280
toll booth and there he's noticed a
UFO. He noticed a light, a

789
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:27,119
big light in the sky, and
he realized he couldn't move until it flew

790
01:05:27,239 --> 01:05:30,800
past. It flew over him and
left and he could move. And then

791
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:35,079
the rabbits started, you know,
getting up and moving around again. But

792
01:05:35,159 --> 01:05:39,159
then they they were freaked out.
They wouldn't you know. He tried to

793
01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:42,519
give them their vegetables and they were
like, no way, man, We're

794
01:05:42,519 --> 01:05:46,199
done with this. We're gonna go
home. And I thought that was really

795
01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:53,119
an interesting one is that they know
that there are a couple of other UFO

796
01:05:53,239 --> 01:06:01,239
cases with wildlife that you know that
has something happened string right, but you

797
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:08,400
know more than one wildlife member,
so you have a whole family of rabbits.

798
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:21,639
That's that's really interesting. Yeah,
So I don't have there been have

799
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:29,239
you noticed or thought that there's been
an uptick in dog man sidings or wolfman

800
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:33,920
sightings or does it just seem that
way. I think it seems that way

801
01:06:34,039 --> 01:06:42,079
because the floodgates have finally opened,
people can finally talk about these things,

802
01:06:42,639 --> 01:06:46,679
and you know, especially I haven't
listened to Vic Kuondiff on dog Man Incounress

803
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,760
Radio for a while, but you
know, he does get recent signings,

804
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:55,320
but every once in a while he'll
get the ones that go back a couple

805
01:06:55,360 --> 01:07:00,480
decades or more, and it's something
that they haven't told anybody because they're just

806
01:07:00,519 --> 01:07:03,079
so bizarre. So I and I
think that the same thing might be true,

807
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:09,400
you know, the the I think
even John Keel thought the flap idea

808
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:13,639
was kind of an illusion. It
just kind of depended on what people were

809
01:07:13,679 --> 01:07:16,760
reporting and so forth. As you
know, the the mainstream media will,

810
01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:21,679
you know, once in a while
the report on a Stevensville or Phoenix lights

811
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:29,360
or O'Hare airport or whatever. But
I for years I subscribed to the UFO

812
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:31,880
news clipping service at least you know
now and then, and I inherited a

813
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:35,599
bunch of old ones from the sixties
one time from a guy that got out

814
01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:40,719
of it. And the thing you
find out there is that these things are

815
01:07:40,719 --> 01:07:45,639
going on all the time. It's
just that they seldom get beyond the local

816
01:07:45,679 --> 01:07:49,039
newspaper or just that the local area
that reported. So I'm not you know,

817
01:07:49,199 --> 01:07:54,800
I people people do seem to have
chronicled, you know, there seemed

818
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:59,199
to be certain months, certain days
of the week that where these things do

819
01:08:00,039 --> 01:08:04,519
seemed to tick up. And I
found the research of a man named a

820
01:08:04,639 --> 01:08:12,840
mad John Maludin that wrote the sixty
sixty Years of Suppressed Evidence the Humanoid Reports,

821
01:08:13,519 --> 01:08:18,880
and he took Albert Rosales's database,
And of course Albert Rosales has an

822
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:29,520
amazing database of humanoid reports and others
amongst us from one AD and he's got

823
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,880
about fifteen books out. It's probably
due for another one. They can't wait

824
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:39,359
for the next one. But so
that was the database that he took,

825
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:44,760
and he found that in focusing on
humanoid reports, there were certain times of

826
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,239
the day that was more likely to
have a human encounter than other times of

827
01:08:48,239 --> 01:08:51,520
the day. At noon and lunchtime, forget it, you're probably not going

828
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:57,000
to see anybody. But between ten
and two am, ten pm and two

829
01:08:57,079 --> 01:09:00,680
am, if there's things going on
in the ARA, it's not just going

830
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,520
to happen anywhere, you would have
a better chance of having one of these

831
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:09,560
encounters. And the bizarre thing is
that holds true, he says, in

832
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:14,479
every time zone. So as the
world turns, the point of entry or

833
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,279
manifestation, whatever it is, is
the same, and then he talks about

834
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:24,399
humanoid migrations, how eight to ten
year cycles, how they seem to show

835
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,359
up somewhere in South America, then
they move up to North America, either

836
01:09:28,399 --> 01:09:31,800
the US or Canada, and then
they move over to not on any particular

837
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:38,640
timescale, but they'll move over to
Britain or the European continent, and then

838
01:09:39,039 --> 01:09:46,520
Asia or Malaysia and then back again
to South America. And that's and there's

839
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,680
been like these eight to ten year
cycles for what four or five times over

840
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:55,239
the years that he's chronicled, and
that is just bizarre. And I wonder,

841
01:09:55,319 --> 01:10:00,079
you know, remember the old days
when you had Gray Bark and Albert

842
01:10:00,119 --> 01:10:06,359
Bender talking about how people would be
chronicling where UFOs were coming from, and

843
01:10:06,399 --> 01:10:10,560
they were always thinking they were coming
from Antarctica, and so they would draw

844
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:14,880
these lines and then the men in
black would manifest or show up, because

845
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:17,039
that was a no no whether there
was a guy from New Zealand of John

846
01:10:17,119 --> 01:10:23,800
Stewart that supposedly had that experience,
Albert Bender and so forth, And I

847
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:28,560
wonder, you know, it would
kind of make sense. Maybe there's nobody

848
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,760
around there to see it, but
maybe these things actually start at Antarctica and

849
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:38,239
then move up to South America and
then around so but either way, you

850
01:10:38,239 --> 01:10:41,840
know, if there's a and I
think I know you've been doing some research

851
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,359
into that to see that if those
kinds of things are verified hold true.

852
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:50,199
So that'll be fascinating to see if
they that research can be duplicated. But

853
01:10:50,399 --> 01:10:56,159
that's so, that's amazing so far. According to Chris, who's the one

854
01:10:56,199 --> 01:11:04,119
who's doing all of the coding and
working on the database itself, so far,

855
01:11:05,199 --> 01:11:13,760
it's it's consistent with what the author
found, so I think he's onto

856
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:24,840
something okay so far. Also,
you can trace flap years by times when

857
01:11:25,039 --> 01:11:31,640
the world itself, uh geopolitically is
having things happen, you know, having

858
01:11:34,119 --> 01:11:40,119
like when the Berlin Wall fell and
the Iron Curtain fell, there was a

859
01:11:40,159 --> 01:11:47,600
lot of UFOs and then there was
of course a lot of UFO sightings in

860
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:57,079
the forties around World War two.
So you can you can follow those those

861
01:11:57,239 --> 01:12:02,600
times and places and you will get
an uptick in reports. Now I want

862
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:09,920
what I want to do is take
the UFO databases from New Fork, MoveOn

863
01:12:10,159 --> 01:12:18,600
Flying Saucer Review and put those in
with the humanoids and see what we get

864
01:12:19,319 --> 01:12:28,279
and we're also working on the USGS
Map of Magnetic Anomalies, just because that

865
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:33,239
that so far if if what I'm
seeing by examining it, you know,

866
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:38,840
visibly, you know, without a
computer, but you know, looking at

867
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:45,479
it, just correlating places and dates
and times, latitude and longitude, I

868
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:50,800
am seeing it correlation. Let's just
put it that way. I don't know

869
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:57,880
that it's going to prove causation,
but it's it's at least something to show

870
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:04,119
other people where to look book and
what to look at. Hopefully that that's

871
01:13:05,039 --> 01:13:08,920
that's kind of beyond me. I'm
glad you're doing that kind of research.

872
01:13:10,239 --> 01:13:16,880
I've been reading an old Flying Saucer
Review, one of their specials where they

873
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,479
talk about landings, and I was
reading an article by Jacques Voila, and

874
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:26,800
I think, well, it's he
had written his first two books, Challenged

875
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:32,760
the Science and Antemy of a Phenomenon, but he hadn't written Passport to Morgonia

876
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:39,000
yet, because Passport to Morgonia has
all those landings at the at the end.

877
01:13:39,279 --> 01:13:41,920
Well, that's what I'm reading.
He's going through all these landings,

878
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:45,439
about two hundred of them, just
very briefly mentioned in this article and it's

879
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:55,600
fascinating because so many of them,
the the the witness encounters paralysis or has

880
01:13:55,640 --> 01:14:00,520
some kind of a a physical reaction
where that they feel some kind of vibration

881
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:04,840
or whatever. So I'm reading all
these one after another, and there's all

882
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:11,119
this repetition of certain kinds of things, and you know, sometimes that the

883
01:14:11,159 --> 01:14:17,000
paralysis occurs without you know anything.
Oftentimes they aim something at him and there's

884
01:14:17,039 --> 01:14:24,840
actually a beam or whatever. But
there's so many different descriptions of these beings

885
01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:29,960
and their behavior and their craft or
whatever. I just you know, I

886
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:32,960
know I mentioned John Keel about every
five minutes. And you know, there

887
01:14:33,079 --> 01:14:38,640
is a friend of mine, Jeff. He claims they have a drinking game.

888
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,199
They'll listen to one of my podcasts
and they'll take a drink every time

889
01:14:42,239 --> 01:14:45,159
I mentioned John Keele, which means
they fasted out in about five or six

890
01:14:45,239 --> 01:14:53,439
minutes. But yeah, it's just
it's just fascinating that you get these patterns,

891
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:58,840
but then you don't other things don't
jive. You're not getting You do

892
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:03,800
get the silver coveralls and picking up
of flowers. And there's one guy speaking

893
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:11,159
of rabbits. One encounter with a
guy gets paralyzed and these guys run off

894
01:15:11,159 --> 01:15:14,079
with his rabbits. Yeah, he
steals the rabbits out of the hunch.

895
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:17,239
I remember that. I was like, damn, what's up with y'all?

896
01:15:17,279 --> 01:15:19,920
Don't be doing that. Yeah,
you guys don't know how to properly take

897
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:24,039
care of these bunny rabbits. Maybe
they're going to eat them. I don't

898
01:15:24,039 --> 01:15:28,479
know. Uh yeah. And then
there's the weird stories where you know,

899
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:34,239
they steal stockings off of women.
You know, like a woman is carrying

900
01:15:34,279 --> 01:15:38,399
her stockings in one hand because she
walked across the creek, so she took

901
01:15:38,399 --> 01:15:42,399
her shoes and stockings off, and
then she put her shoes on because you

902
01:15:42,399 --> 01:15:45,840
don't want to put stockings on let
legs because then they stick and it doesn't

903
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:50,600
work. So she's walking and she's
minding her own business picking flowers in the

904
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:56,840
mountains of Italy, and these two
weird guys in their little egg shaped craft

905
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:01,720
with their silver suits run over and
steal her stock I love the illustrations.

906
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:06,960
Oh, I love that illustration.
They look like they're wearing football helmets from

907
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:11,600
the nineteen twenties. That's exactly what
they look like. And then there's another

908
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,239
case with another woman. She was
putting laundry out and they stole laundry.

909
01:16:15,319 --> 01:16:20,439
I'm like, is are y'all just
creepers? What's happening? And the only

910
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:26,760
thing I can think of in that
period of time is they wanted everybody to

911
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:29,640
think they were from space, but
they had no idea how to act like

912
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:36,720
aliens. So they hadn't gotten there, like you know, behavior down.

913
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:41,399
They hadn't decided how they were going
to be. It's like, you know,

914
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,159
it's like if they were fairies trying
to convince people they were from space,

915
01:16:45,279 --> 01:16:49,720
but they didn't really know, you
know, how to be. They

916
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:54,840
didn't read enough science fiction or something, or they read the wrong science fiction,

917
01:16:56,279 --> 01:16:59,880
almost like men and black, not
knowing how to act human. Yeah,

918
01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:02,960
don't they try to drink jello?
You know? And what about the

919
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:09,359
guy was that John Trasco where these
guys are trying to capture his dog and

920
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,479
he says, we don't mean no
harm. We just watch your dog get

921
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:17,800
out. I want my dog.
You get your own talk. And that's

922
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:24,920
the thing again, there's something about
dogs something. Now, have there been

923
01:17:25,199 --> 01:17:32,439
dog men sighted with UFOs like Bigfoot
in UFOs? I think there have been,

924
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:36,479
like like Paul Sinclair would tell you
that there'll be a lot of strange

925
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:41,439
lights or whatever in the same vicinity. Are they connected, you know?

926
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:45,960
Are they are they morphing into these
creatures that nobody has seen that there,

927
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:53,600
that that's been recorded, So it
again the connection is possible, but maybe

928
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:59,000
tenuous, I don't know. Yeah, although Lee's case, you know,

929
01:17:59,079 --> 01:18:05,880
with his little weird mechanical you know
or whatever, they are right there there

930
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:11,439
are. Yeah, there is some
kind of bizarre technology there. But and

931
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:16,159
again that intelligence, I'm assuming that
the intelligence behind that is the same intelligence

932
01:18:16,159 --> 01:18:19,680
that is cloaking these things. So
that would be that would be really the

933
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:25,119
only example I could probably think of
that where there seems to be some kind

934
01:18:25,159 --> 01:18:30,399
of a UFO phenomenon in the same
vicinity that these things are. Yeah.

935
01:18:31,119 --> 01:18:34,640
Yeah, And it's strange, you
know, because he is trying to get

936
01:18:35,319 --> 01:18:40,880
people from universities and scientists interested in
this area. I mean, you have

937
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,640
a virtual laboratory there. And I
was talking to him, you know,

938
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:49,960
Linda started writing about Lee's farm and
at least by monsters among us, maybe

939
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:56,000
even before that, and he said
that they he was perfectly happy to use

940
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,920
his name in the book, but
they for some reason the legal people wanted

941
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:03,720
to give him a pseudonym, so
he's somebody Smith I think in Monsters among

942
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:08,319
Us and Linda only talks about some
of the things that were going on there.

943
01:19:09,319 --> 01:19:14,840
But he said that it was for
Linda, it was like a kid

944
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:17,199
in a candy store. Here's just
been writing about this, and just a

945
01:19:17,199 --> 01:19:23,840
few miles away from where she's living, here's this virtual laboratory over certain acres

946
01:19:24,039 --> 01:19:28,720
where this stuff is actually happening that
she can go and observe, you know.

947
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:34,840
Yeah, and that's that. See, that's that's just perfect timing and

948
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:41,520
placement of of you know, being
in the right place at the right time.

949
01:19:43,359 --> 01:19:48,439
I just one of the other things
that I, you know, I

950
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:57,279
noticed about the dog man and the
bigfoot thing. They're sort of in my

951
01:19:57,439 --> 01:20:00,840
mind entwined together because like you said, you know, we're okay with bigfoot.

952
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:04,039
Bigfoot we can kind of deal with. But no, no, no,

953
01:20:04,039 --> 01:20:09,800
no walking dogs tall six foot,
No, we're not having that.

954
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,079
I still think that they're they're related
in a way, And I was like,

955
01:20:15,279 --> 01:20:19,680
you know, I wonder if they're
a different kind of bigfoot that just

956
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:27,840
has big ears and a tail or, if it's you know, a variant

957
01:20:28,079 --> 01:20:33,560
just like, this is a wilderness
being that that guards the wilderness, and

958
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:38,119
so it's big and hairy. That's
the two things you have to have.

959
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:44,000
And then the rest of it is
just you know, kind of regional window

960
01:20:44,079 --> 01:20:51,560
dressing or something. And I was
fascinated when I was looking at information about

961
01:20:51,680 --> 01:21:00,079
the Native American mounds and I found
that there were some skeletons found in the

962
01:21:00,119 --> 01:21:09,920
mounds that had artificial extensions on their
teeth, so they had teeth ground down

963
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:19,199
so that the bones of a wolf's
muzzle with the sharp teeth could be fitted

964
01:21:19,319 --> 01:21:30,279
into the mouth. And then the
the uh archaeologists and anthropologists thought maybe they

965
01:21:30,399 --> 01:21:39,880
wore a hood of a wolf skin
of the face over that, so that

966
01:21:40,079 --> 01:21:46,439
they were portraying wolf spirits or some
other kind of spirits. And this is

967
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:49,199
fascinating to me. So I'm like, oh, so wolf shamans. I

968
01:21:49,239 --> 01:21:57,239
wonder if Bigfoot has wolf shamans.
I was like, why not? You

969
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:01,359
know, nobody knows. Nobody knows, so you know, I'm just throwing

970
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:06,039
things out there. Well, I
guess I do think there's a distinction.

971
01:22:06,119 --> 01:22:15,159
And the one thing is I really
haven't heard people report the the negative vibe

972
01:22:15,199 --> 01:22:19,640
that the evil respect yeah, with
Bigfoot, and it's very common. The

973
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:25,000
same with Paul Sinclair, and he
even talked about a connection with them in

974
01:22:25,119 --> 01:22:30,079
mounds out there too. Sometimes they're
seen near mounds, So I don't know

975
01:22:30,119 --> 01:22:33,439
what that's all about. Of course, if you've ever watched Mountain Monsters,

976
01:22:34,199 --> 01:22:40,760
there was an episode. There was
the episode where the Chupa Cabras in West

977
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:47,000
Virginia were teaming up with Bigfoot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I watched

978
01:22:47,039 --> 01:22:53,319
an episode of that with Fox and
I was just like shaking my head.

979
01:22:53,399 --> 01:22:58,399
Well, I met at the Mothman
statue. I met a young lady.

980
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:02,560
I won't say how she was related
to John Tice, who played Trapper,

981
01:23:03,359 --> 01:23:08,560
but we had a good laugh.
She said, uh, this person who

982
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:13,680
will remain nameless. They shot everything
on the same property you supposed to be,

983
01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:16,359
and it was I think it was. I think it was John's property

984
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:20,840
in fact. And we had a
good laugh about some of the things,

985
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:28,920
like the Pocahontas fire dragon. Yeah
anyway, yeah, and the Cherokee something

986
01:23:29,079 --> 01:23:34,079
cat. There's a Cherokee cherkey devil
right right. And oh and I remember

987
01:23:34,119 --> 01:23:39,319
how how Mothman you don't look at
his eyes because you'll pass out. Yeah,

988
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,560
and of course who was at the
buck passed out, But the camera

989
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,840
people didn't that, which is good. They must have really been their eyes

990
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,520
were protected by the camera lenses.
I guess, so I guess that makes

991
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:56,319
sense. But anyway, but I
digress. Oh yeah, Mountain Monsters is

992
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:01,520
really really hilarious to me, and
I loved it as as a guilty pleasure,

993
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:05,680
especially when I went off with the
bizarre conspiracy stuff. Oh yeah,

994
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:11,000
yeah, and the little girl in
the woods and the god you know,

995
01:24:11,399 --> 01:24:15,760
they just, you know, they
pushed the envelope and then they busted it.

996
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:18,399
Yeah, they just kept going.
They just they just kept going.

997
01:24:20,039 --> 01:24:25,600
But yeah, I don't. And
the other thing is, you know,

998
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:30,319
when we talk about this bear wolf
or whatever it was, I can't help

999
01:24:30,359 --> 01:24:35,279
but think of Zelia Edgar's book Just
Another Tenfoil Half Presents, where she of

1000
01:24:35,359 --> 01:24:41,560
course she's Achilian, so she talks
about transmogrification, but she has this great

1001
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:47,960
phrase lost in Transmogrification and alshow she
talks about flopped projections and gives examples like

1002
01:24:48,199 --> 01:24:55,560
perhaps the Enfield horror in Illinois in
the seventies, I think three legs,

1003
01:24:56,239 --> 01:24:59,640
arms protruding out of its chest and
pink glowing eyes, a couple of different

1004
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:03,239
people's all this even shot at it. Uh So I'm wondering if some of

1005
01:25:03,279 --> 01:25:08,079
these things they're so called bearwolf for
whatever it was, it's just one of

1006
01:25:08,159 --> 01:25:14,600
those things that got screwed up translations
somehow because you don't see many of those.

1007
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:17,439
You see plenty of big foots,
you see plenty of of dog men

1008
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:21,079
or whatever they are. Yeah,
but you know these, uh. And

1009
01:25:21,119 --> 01:25:27,359
then you had the row Row,
the Rochelle monster. Yeah. And I

1010
01:25:27,359 --> 01:25:30,039
always I always say row row sounds
like Scooby Doo trying to form word.

1011
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:34,359
Yeah, there you go. And
uh, but it was sort of like

1012
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:39,439
slowly coming into manifestation. You know
that the bangs in the house, they

1013
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:43,279
could smell it, they would even
could feel the breath, but nothing was

1014
01:25:43,319 --> 01:25:45,359
there. And then I finally it
showed up, not leaving footprints, and

1015
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:50,319
I think eventually it did. So
it was not was not a conventional bigfoot,

1016
01:25:50,399 --> 01:25:57,359
could not have been simply a cryptid, undocumented animal. It was something

1017
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:01,760
slowly coming. It's like a textbook
caase of these things slowly coming into manifestation.

1018
01:26:02,039 --> 01:26:05,359
And then it would attack a bunch
of chickens and not eat them.

1019
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:11,359
Yeah, because probably it doesn't even
have insides, you know, I mean,

1020
01:26:11,399 --> 01:26:15,359
think about it. Do they do
they have insides? Don't? I

1021
01:26:15,399 --> 01:26:21,439
don't know. I just but these
things have been with us forever. You

1022
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:27,520
know. It's part of the human
condition. And you know, I get

1023
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:30,520
I get it. You know.
I call it the uh, the Red

1024
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:34,800
Queen effect. You know when Alice
in Wonderland with the Red Queen told her,

1025
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:38,279
if you're gonna get anywhere, you're
gonna run faster and faster, and

1026
01:26:38,359 --> 01:26:40,960
Alice runs as fast as you can
and the trees are staying in the same

1027
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:44,560
place. So that's what it feels
like sometimes when we're trying to sift through

1028
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:46,680
this. Yeah, and you know, have you ever felt like you made

1029
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,840
a couple of connections and you think
you're onto something and then you hit a

1030
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:54,039
brick wall? You know? Oh
yeah, I mean that. I think

1031
01:26:54,079 --> 01:26:58,319
that that that happens on purpose.
Honestly, I think so too that.

1032
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:00,119
You know, you think you've got
to think you've got it, You think

1033
01:27:00,119 --> 01:27:06,439
you've got it, and then some
other evidence or testimony gets thrown in front

1034
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:11,640
of you and it's like a microphone
dropping. Yeah, exactly, It's like

1035
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:15,119
the it just went boom and they
were done and then you sit there and

1036
01:27:15,159 --> 01:27:19,439
you're just like, why did I
Why did I waste three years on that?

1037
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:26,560
And Jacques Vlla tells us that the
phenomenon negates itself. Yes, you

1038
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:30,720
know, in some cases is pretty
dramatic, where somebody will see something and

1039
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:32,359
then you get a knock on the
door. You can't talk about this,

1040
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:41,079
And sometimes the experience is so bizarre
that if a person tells it, people

1041
01:27:41,159 --> 01:27:44,319
don't believe it, and it just
shuts it right down. Of course,

1042
01:27:44,359 --> 01:27:49,119
so and so many of these things
do have that incredible high strangeness aspect to

1043
01:27:49,159 --> 01:27:56,359
it. I think at this point
I've decided that everybody has some kind of

1044
01:27:56,479 --> 01:28:01,520
weird thing that has happened to them. Either it was mostly mundane so they

1045
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:08,800
don't think about it as anything weird, or they know it's weird, but

1046
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:14,560
they'll never ever tell anyone, right. As part of why I like talking

1047
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:20,520
with people who have had experiences and
I'm like, you know, somebody somewhere

1048
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:25,600
has seen something weirder than you,
but they will never say anything about it.

1049
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:29,199
But if they hear your story,
maybe they will. Because I think

1050
01:28:29,239 --> 01:28:33,720
it's a burden on the psyche to
keep secrets like that, because it makes

1051
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:39,359
you feel crazy, and it makes
you doubt yourself, and it makes you

1052
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:47,079
doubt what your truth is. So
I think it's really important to keep telling

1053
01:28:47,159 --> 01:28:53,079
these these experiences, keep telling the
stories. Well, I think that's true

1054
01:28:53,119 --> 01:28:56,960
because a young lady I talked to
several years ago. She contacted me on

1055
01:28:57,000 --> 01:29:02,119
Facebook, and she and her husband
this is Londonderry, New Hampshire. They're

1056
01:29:02,159 --> 01:29:06,119
near an airport, but they're very
familiar with the planes and the lights to

1057
01:29:06,199 --> 01:29:10,720
go over, and they're standing out
early in the morning and start they're standing

1058
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:15,159
on their front porch and they see
these strange lights coming toward them, and

1059
01:29:15,199 --> 01:29:17,600
then all of a sudden, they're
not standing next to each other anymore.

1060
01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:20,199
It's a little bit lighter out,
and they look up and they see this

1061
01:29:20,359 --> 01:29:26,439
large black triangle brushing the tops of
the trees. And then, as so

1062
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:30,720
many people doing these things, they
didn't register them. They just turned around

1063
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:33,720
and went back to bed. And
then later on she realized that I'm missing

1064
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:38,119
time, so she was on a
quest. It was really bugging her.

1065
01:29:38,159 --> 01:29:42,319
She wanted to find out what happened, and so I asked her a series

1066
01:29:42,359 --> 01:29:45,239
of John Keele questions. Things I
would have if I was you know,

1067
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:50,079
locked back in the nineteen sixties,
I would have said, I hope you

1068
01:29:50,079 --> 01:29:55,239
you know, find you what happened
during that missing time. I would have

1069
01:29:55,279 --> 01:29:59,000
known nothing else to ask. And
to make the long story short, I

1070
01:29:59,079 --> 01:30:04,079
found out that they were experiencing typical
haunting phenomena, some kind of a little

1071
01:30:04,079 --> 01:30:09,760
bit of electrical phenomenon. Both sons
were seeing orbs, some in the house

1072
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:15,159
and some outside the house. She
had seen a shadow person. And then

1073
01:30:15,199 --> 01:30:17,600
finally I said, this is going
to sound like a weird question, but

1074
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:21,640
have you ever seen any kind of
an animal you couldn't identify, like a

1075
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:25,960
bigfoot or whatever? And she said
no. And then she said, oh,

1076
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:28,920
wait a minute. My mother in
law and sister in law both saw

1077
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:31,520
something near the property, and this
thing was seen twice. What they had

1078
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:36,439
seen was something like a black panther
standing on two legs. So, and

1079
01:30:38,079 --> 01:30:43,760
she also had she had a UFO, a local UFO group over to her

1080
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:45,680
house, asking questions and so forth. And at the same time, they

1081
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:49,560
lived on a cul de sac,
and a black car with its windows blacked

1082
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:54,199
out, drove down, went around
the cul de sac, and then drove

1083
01:30:54,239 --> 01:30:58,680
away. So, anyway, if
I hadn't you know, asked all these

1084
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:00,680
questions, those would have been buried, that would have been you know,

1085
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:08,600
not a Now later on she made
a breakthrough, and she's very, very

1086
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:12,039
I rational about her She said,
I don't remember these things consciously, so

1087
01:31:12,119 --> 01:31:14,800
I take it with a grain of
salt, you know. And it was

1088
01:31:15,039 --> 01:31:18,880
kind of you know, she had
these these two pale grays on one side

1089
01:31:19,239 --> 01:31:24,119
looking at her and blinking. Everything
really creepy. There was something toward her

1090
01:31:24,159 --> 01:31:27,800
feet that she couldn't even describe.
It was so awful. She said.

1091
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,920
The only thing she could think of
was remember toy story with that weird kid

1092
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:35,359
that cobbled together all those evil looking
Yeah, she said, that's what it

1093
01:31:35,399 --> 01:31:41,159
made her think of. But then
off to her right that she couldn't quite

1094
01:31:41,239 --> 01:31:44,000
see it, but it was some
kind of a female presence, got the

1095
01:31:44,279 --> 01:31:48,840
sense of something tall and like almost
like the tall fairy or the tall gray

1096
01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:53,720
or whatever, and she's saying things
like, you know, you've been through

1097
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:57,159
this before, don't worry, it's
going to be all right. And she's

1098
01:31:57,159 --> 01:32:01,800
got all this craft going on and
anyway, so that's what came about.

1099
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:06,920
But again, she was one of
these people that have had She and her

1100
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:15,920
family have had experiences for years.
Yeah, that's and that's that is fairly

1101
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:20,000
typical year as I can tell,
which is why I think everybody has something

1102
01:32:20,039 --> 01:32:27,399
a little weird that's happened, whether
they remember it or not. And I'm

1103
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:32,479
fully convinced at this point that the
world is way weirder than you know,

1104
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:39,600
any of us thought. I think
it's way stranger. And the paradox is

1105
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:45,840
that that seems to be the natural
state of things. People having these experiences

1106
01:32:45,199 --> 01:32:50,159
are not weird. They're kind of
a natural part of reality, even though

1107
01:32:50,199 --> 01:32:57,439
it might be kind of a sub
reality or whatever. Yet the human part

1108
01:32:57,479 --> 01:33:02,439
of us is desperate to make sense
so good, but it's always elusive.

1109
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:09,560
It's always just out of our grasp. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, one

1110
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:15,359
hundred. Well do you have any
what? So why do we torture ourself

1111
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:18,319
like this? Why do we torture
ourselves? I don't know. I think

1112
01:33:18,359 --> 01:33:26,119
it's the the eternal quest to understand, to experience, to know, to

1113
01:33:26,319 --> 01:33:34,560
understand to I just think we're too
left brained, you know, the logic

1114
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:40,960
is just really strong, and we
really want to understand right whereas the right

1115
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:45,239
brain is going just just let go
be like Luke Skywalker, let go go

1116
01:33:45,359 --> 01:33:49,600
with your feelings, you know,
don't don't think too hard. I'm terrible

1117
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:58,720
at not thinking too hard. Well, it's good to see you again.

1118
01:33:59,359 --> 01:34:03,840
Well you too, and thank you
as always for coming to visit with me.

1119
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:09,760
And if you ever have anything that
you you know, want to ask

1120
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:14,279
me, let me know. If
you ever need a guest. Oh okay,

1121
01:34:14,399 --> 01:34:16,399
yeah, sure you can always you
can always call on me. I

1122
01:34:16,399 --> 01:34:20,199
can always talk about just about anything. Well, that sounds good. I

1123
01:34:20,199 --> 01:34:25,239
think we should do that relatively soon. Okay, thanks and have a good

1124
01:34:25,279 --> 01:34:30,560
holiday. Okay, you too.
Well that's all for this week's episode of

1125
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:34,239
the Six Degrees of John Keel podcast. If you have any questions or thoughts

1126
01:34:34,279 --> 01:34:39,000
about the podcast, or would like
to come and talk about your experiences of

1127
01:34:39,039 --> 01:34:45,000
the paranormal, you can contact us
at six d JK six' seven at

1128
01:34:45,039 --> 01:34:49,920
gmail dot com. We promised even
answer you and we are always happy to

1129
01:34:49,960 --> 01:35:23,640
hear from you. Thank you at
suppose having King and