WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:04.040 Hey, this is Chris with Hacking Your Leadership. On today's discussion on employee 2 00:00:04.040 --> 00:00:08.759 engagement. I'm gonna be going over an article from Forbes called the New Rules 3 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:13.720 for Increasing Engagement at Work by a PhD named Tracy Brower. Uh. There's 4 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.879 a lot of content in this in this article, and there's very specific rules 5 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:22.160 that Tracy goes over on increasing employee engagement, and I don't want to go 6 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:25.679 over them in the in the series of the next few Thursday episodes, so 7 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:28.839 we can you know, talk about them in the right way. Basically, 8 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:33.399 what this comes down to is that we're at an all time low in terms 9 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:37.200 of employee engagement for the you know, for the last at least decade. 10 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:43.520 Younger people are experiencing higher levels of reported disengagement. People who work in remote 11 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:48.240 work environments or hybrid work environments are also reporting the lowest level of engagement compared 12 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:50.560 to people who work in an office. Which is kind of a double edged 13 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.240 sword there, right, because a lot of the people who work remotely don't 14 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:57.840 want to come back to the office. And and we can talk about which 15 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.479 came first, the chicken or the egg here where they do they want to 16 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.040 be away from the office because they're disengaged or are they disengaged because they're away 17 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:07.439 from the office, And the answer is yes on both. But I think 18 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:11.719 this is really important to go over some of the things that are if you're 19 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:15.640 a leader, you have to think about. These are the rules for engaging 20 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:19.120 your team. The first one I want to go over on this episode is 21 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:23.640 around proximity. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean proximity means you have to be 22 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:29.239 in the office. How Tracy puts it in the article is that proximity can 23 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:33.120 be both literal and figurative. And so you have proximity to the person you 24 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:34.879 sit next to regularly when you're in the office, but you also have a 25 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:40.480 sense of proximity with a colleague you're on video calls with regularly. We have 26 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:44.879 a cognitive bias towards familiarity and recency, and so the people who you are 27 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:49.239 most familiar with and the people who you have a lot of interactions with, 28 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:52.680 those are the people that you will look to as you know, maybe the 29 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.680 ones that are most in line for a promotion or you know your go to 30 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:01.799 people for you know, projects that need you know, a project manager like 31 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:06.120 these are the things that are that need to be important to you is making 32 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:09.400 sure that you have recency and proximity with your direct boss and your team, 33 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:14.719 even if you're in a remote or hybrid environment. This is all incredibly important 34 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:16.919 if you want your people to feel engaged. Yeah, we think about engagement 35 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:21.879 completely. I immediately think of that aspect of it, like how close are 36 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:24.680 you with your peers and how genuine a relationship do you have with like your 37 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:30.639 leader, And to your point, like that can be the informalities of the 38 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:34.599 conversations and relationships that you have when you work together in the same offices and 39 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:38.960 you know you kind of like take breaks together, have lunches together, whatever, 40 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.280 just hang out and just be able to be around each other. But 41 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:46.800 then when it comes to some of the the hybrid or the remote work stuff, 42 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.199 the intention of having that time together where it's not just dedicated to just 43 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:53.599 here's the update, here's the job we're we at with this thing, but 44 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:59.319 actually having conversations to connect with people about them, about their lives, about 45 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:02.199 you know, their their you know, their goals, things like that. 46 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:08.319 Like having really kind of specific time that allows the informality, even if it's 47 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:14.639 over the internet, I think is super duper helpful in building their relationships that 48 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.919 then create the engagement because then again it's like I I've had this happen to 49 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:23.479 me now where I've seen people and I'm like, wow, Like the last 50 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:28.280 time I actually was like a physically near you was three years ago, four 51 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:30.560 years ago. Now, it it crosses my mind because I'm like, but 52 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:32.360 I like, I talk to you all the time, you know what I 53 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:36.280 mean, Like, like I see you all the time. So it kind 54 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:40.360 of feels like nothing's changed in that, like we're we're we're we're close, 55 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:45.400 and we're always talking. But there's the reality of the physical space thing that 56 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:46.960 I think still a lot of people are working through right now. Right, 57 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:51.280 I'll give a perfect example of this. You and I. So I like 58 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:55.439 the last time we were in the same room together was in June of twenty 59 00:03:55.479 --> 00:04:00.360 one when I when we came out and visited and went to Today's for a 60 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:03.319 few days. So that was almost three years ago. And then before that, 61 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.680 the last time we were in the same room together was probably four or 62 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:11.719 five years before that because you didn't have kids yet, right, But yet 63 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:15.120 we are on a video call several times a month, recording episodes for the 64 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:19.959 for the podcast. We have conversations via text message daily. You know, 65 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.079 like there is no if you were in the same room as me right now, 66 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.079 it wouldn't be like, oh my gosh, I haven't seen you as 67 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.639 like I feel like I see you more than my own family sometimes. So 68 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.040 so yeah, this is what it comes down to. Proximity doesn't necessarily mean 69 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:38.079 you are in the same room with the person. It means that there is 70 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:42.040 a sense of proximity. You feel like there's proximity there. I want to 71 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.639 go over some of the things that I think good leaders do to make this 72 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.000 happen with their teams, whether it's remote or hybrid or in office, But 73 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.920 first I want to give it a word from one of our sponsors. All 74 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:55.279 Right, if you're a leader and you're trying to increase the sense of proximity 75 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:58.800 of your team, whether you are in office or remote or hybrid, it 76 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:03.519 doesn't matter. Just how you execute might be different depending on the situation for 77 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:08.519 your particular team, but it's important. And there are teams who work in 78 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.480 office five days a week who don't have a strong sense of proximity with each 79 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.439 other, and there are teams who work remotely who do have a strong sense 80 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:17.399 of proximity with each other. And so it's all about what you do as 81 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:21.879 a leader to make that happen, not necessarily about allowing the geography to be 82 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:26.800 the thing that says I'm doing this well or I can't do this. The 83 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.959 leaders who do this well they set really clear guidelines about when their people should 84 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:34.759 meet. And that's whether it's in a video call or in the office, 85 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:39.600 or you know, when they should be on the same Slack channel together. 86 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:42.800 What the core hours of work are. You know, some teams that work 87 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:46.480 remotely, they might work over multiple time zones, they might be in different 88 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.680 countries, and that might be harder to do, but they I bet you 89 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:53.720 they all still get together every once in a while. They all still have 90 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.759 time where they do get together, even if it's only weekly or monthly. 91 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:01.519 They do work as a team. They are accessible during specific core hours. 92 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:05.639 And so if your team works remotely and you are in the same time zone 93 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.959 or or maybe spread across you know, a small set of time zones, 94 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:14.759 then you can set core hours like it's it's okay if you want to work 95 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:16.759 remote, it's okay if you want to you know, have an extended vacation 96 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:20.319 as long as you're working at the same time. These are the core hours 97 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:24.839 where we expect you to be available, meaning if someone sends you an email 98 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.040 that you're expected to get back to them the same day and not you know, 99 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:30.959 the next day or two days later. If someone sends you a message 100 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.560 on Slack, you're expected to be able to respond or to see that message 101 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.920 go off. It's kind of these these core hours. If there are video 102 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.160 calls, you're expected to turn your camera on to be able to see the 103 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:44.000 people that you're talking to and not just have it be a you know, 104 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:48.120 the blank avatar screen. These are the things that increase the feeling of connectedness 105 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:53.199 between people on a team. And when a person on your team is reluctant 106 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:57.160 to do some of these things, it shows that they are already actively disengaged, 107 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.519 and it's on it's incumbent upon you as a leader to talk to those 108 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.759 people individually and to find out why they're actively disengaged in what you can do 109 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:08.879 to help, but to also set the expectation that this is this is how 110 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:12.959 we increase the level of engagement. And it's like it's like going to the 111 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:17.000 gym again when you haven't for years. It's it's it's gonna be painful at 112 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:20.720 first, right. It's the people who are actively disengaged. They don't want 113 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:25.800 to do these things, but doing these things will increase the level of engagement 114 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:28.959 if they're if they come from a good standpoint from you as a leader, 115 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.959 not from you better, but from we really want you here, We want 116 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.680 to engage with you, and it's important that we feel that way as a 117 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.399 team. So I need you to be on, I need you to be 118 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:41.839 here during these times. You know, talk to your people about this and 119 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:46.240 make sure that they feel supported in that, because that will increase the feeling 120 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:48.160 of proximity. Yeah. And I think too that there's the elements like what 121 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:51.600 you're talking about, which is like just kind of almost blatant disengagement, like 122 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:57.439 like the bare minimum of just being like doing the things that would allow you 123 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.240 to be able to even potentially connect with people in a certain way. I 124 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:05.120 also think that if if you're really trying to consider how do you build on 125 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:11.560 and create a better level of engagement, it's thinking about the systems and processes 126 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:16.319 that are already there that may not be allowing the creation of the space or 127 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.160 the ability to connect and engage with a team that is not specific to work. 128 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:26.199 It's not specific to you know, to getting you know, to meeting 129 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:28.519 a deadline or working on a project. Like I immediately think of, like, 130 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.440 well, why can't you you know, host a trivia night you know, 131 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:35.120 once a month and and have people on it. And again, like 132 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.159 it sounds crazy, but if you're going to have them, you know, 133 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:43.159 if you're looking at increase engagement, you kind of have to pay them to 134 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.120 do it as well. Like it's one thing to say we're going to increase 135 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.320 engagement by having you volunteer your free time to hang out with us, Like, 136 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:52.600 nobody wants to do that, right, People who are actively engaged don't 137 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:54.000 want to do that exactly right. I want to spend time with who I 138 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:56.519 want to spend my time with. Now, if you're looking to say, 139 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:01.000 hey, we we want to do this to drive our own engagement amongst one 140 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.399 another, have some fun together, enjoy our time together. You know, 141 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:09.559 Thursdays at four pm, you know, every other Thursday, we're gonna do 142 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.720 some type of a you know, a virtual call where we're gonna have some 143 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.080 fun and we're gonna have a good time and there's gonna be prizes and we're 144 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:20.279 gonna do stuff like where it's gonna be enjoyable. Yes, you're on the 145 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.759 clock, but like this is the this is the intention is for us to 146 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.279 get to know each other more. So that way when we have some of 147 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:30.679 these other spaces and informal conversations, we have things to talk about and sellthbright 148 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:33.519 as a team. Like That's what I would also say, is like challenge 149 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:39.200 yourself to think about those types of spaces and even physically, like like within 150 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:41.519 an office, it's the same type of thing, Like you gotta find ways 151 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.320 to have some fun in the office and create the spaces for people to get 152 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.360 to know each other more and spend time together. Yeah, I think you're 153 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:50.120 spot on with that. I think the other thing that you have a responsibility 154 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:54.600 to do as a leader is you have to give people work that requires collaboration. 155 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.159 It doesn't necessarily have to be with the entire team. It could just 156 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:01.279 be two people or three people. But if the work that you give your 157 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:05.919 individual team members is solely work that they can get done on their own, 158 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.200 then there won't be this need to collaborate and to get together, and they 159 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:18.080 will find themselves unintentionally but eventually getting to a place where they don't feel connected 160 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.120 to their teams. If the work that you're assigning them, the work they're 161 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:26.440 required to do, really requires collaboration with other people, then they'll collaborate. 162 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.679 It is what it is that there's no way to get the work done without 163 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:33.360 that. And so even if it means collaboration via email or video calls or 164 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.879 Slack channel chats or whatever it is, if people have to engage to get 165 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:43.399 their work done, then they will. And just the putting in the reps 166 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:48.440 of that interaction with each other, that's going to increase the engagement and the 167 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.039 feeling of proximity between those people. Do that enough with enough people on your 168 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.240 team, and you will, over time maintain that sex of that sense of 169 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:01.080 proximity between people, and people will start feeling, you know, less disconnected. 170 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.200 It's great to do you know, fun engagement. You know, nights 171 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:07.679 and and and uh, you know, things that have nothing to do with 172 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:13.080 work. I love that. That's that's fantastic. The core of the work 173 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:16.039 needs to feel meaningful to them, and it needs to be work that they 174 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:20.519 can't get done without the help of their peers. If you really want to 175 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.720 increase this engagement, I want to thank you all for joining us in this 176 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:24.279 discussion on employe engagement. We'll see you all next Thursday. I have a 177 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:24.720 great day.