Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You know, there's explanation for
everything that occurred in the Randall Shamparscient. It doesn't involve aliens at all.
It was completely silent. It comes right over our heads. He's also really
standing into clearing. He turned over to my father and held his hand,
and he looked in his eyes and he said, we're not alone. Welcome
to Podcast UFO for our live show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm
Eastern Standard time. Please remember to visit the website podcast ufo dot com for
past episodes, blogs and forums. During the show, feel free to participate
live in our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very
active Facebook page. Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis,
your host, and we have Alejandro Rojas coming up in just a minute
with UFO updates. Our guest today, we have Robert Powell and we're gonna
be talking about the SEU. It's a new organization startup, and we're gonna
be talking about the USS Nimits two thousand and four UFO case, the tic
TAC case. It's otherwise known as and just a couple of things. If
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So if you can't support the show and you want to listen for free,
you can do it that way. You can also watch on YouTube and we're
live on YouTube every Wednesday night at eight to ten pm Eastern Standard time.
And that is it for me. Hello Alejandro, Hello, how are you?
You were stuck in traffic. I just had to put that announcement up,
but you made it. Yeah, I did make it. So I'm
so sorry for being tardy. I always am such a such a pain,
but not at all. Your patience is appreciated, not at all, And
I am excited. I'm going to be helping out out at the UFO Congress.
I'm pretty excited about that. Yeah, that's going excited too. Yeah,
so it'll be Yeah, I just hope I don't you know how sometimes
it's a little tricky here when I'm doing the show live. I just hope
I don't cause any glitches there. That. Yeah, to talk Congress is
going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be cool. You'll
be backstage, you'll be working cameras. You know, if we'll see you,
they can go high five you, yeah and say hello. So yeah,
well it's gonna be a lot of fun, a lot of cool speakers.
And you know, one of the speakers we're gonna have is um.
I don't know it's Robert. Yeah, he's still on UM. It's a
friend of Roberts, right, at least they're acquainted. And I haven't I
talked with Robert a lot. Robert Powell is awesome. You've got a great
guest for tonight and UM And I believe he's worked with Alan Holt, who
I believe someone that Robert has worked with him quite a bit because he's a
science type person. A NASA person and he helped out with move On for
quite a while, as did Robert, and hopefully Alan will maybe get on
board with our with this new project. I've been working with Robert with as
well, the SCU, which is really exciting and I think there's a lot
of really cool stuff that's going to come from that. So yeah, the
Congress is going to be a lot of fun. Oh that's what I was
saying. This is Alan Holki. He's going to be speaking. So he
worked for something like thirty to fifty years for NASA, a long, long,
long time. But he's really into UFO, so he's gonna be talking
about that interest and his research into UFOs that finally, now that he's retired,
he feels more comfortable to come out and speak about. Oh wow,
that's great. And so we're just having a little bit of a glitch,
Alajandro, the whole show seems to be frozen on YouTube. All right,
well let's keep going and show up. Yeah, all right, see you,
Okay, here we go. All right, well, let's keep going.
And I think I felt like I just already said that. Yeah.
Yeah, So people can check out the website UFO Congress Dot com and you'll
see a lot more you know, the Martin Willis. And we're not going
to really announce that or make a press release about it because it's kind of
a behind the scenes thing, but I know that you're listening audience will probably
be very excited about that. Oh that's good. Yeah, all right,
excellent. And what is going on in the UFO world? Yeah, so
some interesting things going on I was going to talk about here. One of
them is I found this interesting. So Philip Mantel, you've had him on
your show, UK Researcher. He occasionally writes for Open Mind sat TV,
and they recently wrote an article about these China Lake UFO photos. Not sure
if you've seen them at their kind of like throwback photos. They're similar to
the type of photos we saw in like the fifties and sixties, people like
what's his name, David Frye, right, something like that. It's last
same which fry There was this guy at White Sands who used to take pictures
that were kind of crazy like this. But there are and that's who this
potential hoaxer could be trying to emulate here as these old time hoax photos.
So this photo is one of those too good to be true type of photos.
This person posted a few with Heatherweight, and you were just talking about
the dark Matter network. So this person said, I've got these crazy photos
I've been sitting on for ten years, what do you think? And uploaded
those and Heatherweight kind of sent those out to people and they've been very controversial.
They're supposedly at the China Lake kind of dry lake testing bed, top
secret kind of area in California, and there's a helicopter in the background in
one of two of the photos. And this strange I don't even know how
to describe kind of gum drops, like two gum drops put together with a
large end stuck together, kind of shaped objects silver, it's hard to tell
how big it is, so really interesting photos. I'm of course always skeptical
right off the bat for better or whereas I apologize if that's frustrating, but
you know, we want to be very rigorous about how we look at these
things and put them under the paces to make sure they're genuine. What Philip
did was talked to a bunch of researchers. He was able to get a
hold with the alleged witness and then put together a story about this, and
what he found was kind of interesting. So researchers such as Bruce mccabee,
who worked for the Navy as an optical physicist, he at first thought they
were silly, but then he's kind of on the fence. He's not so
sure about it. And that's I find very interesting because I thought Bruce would
very quickly debunk the whole things. But there are some Brazilian researchers that bring
up some good points and they believe there to be hoaxes. And I couldn't
find the exact quote because I wanted to put it in the story, but
I did hear from Mark D'Antonio, who's move On photo analysts and also an
sc you member the organization Robert's going to be talking about. He does fill
the shadows or way off. The direction of the sunlight is also not consistent,
so he believes they're totally a hoax. But there's some very controversial photos.
And I'm glad that Philip put this together because it's kind of a Philip
does a good job and trying to get, you know, many angles about
these stories. So many different points of view are represented, and so yeah,
people can check that out. It open minds that TV to see these
kind of latest wild UFOs that are pictures that are making the rounds. And
is it a disc what type of craft are the Well, like I was
saying, it's it's hard to describe. Yeah, I think it's dubious.
I thought it was interesting though that people like Bruce mcabee think that it might
be a legit thing. So well, that's something worth checking out. And
then the only other story I wanted to mention was, and this is kind
of interesting, is this documentary called Love and Saucers explores the sexy alien encounters.
So it's a documentary focused on abduction stories. I have like a sexual
aspect where people have like had sex or maybe be even have fallen in love
with, you know, certain creatures according to them. So that's another story
you can find an open mindsett TV sounds really interesting, and I believe that
people who made these move this movie listens to us their listeners. Yeah,
all right, do I hear noise in your background there? Yeah, it's
people getting ready because we're supposed to be going side all right. Hey Alandro,
thanks so much, problem, Sorry for the glitches tonight. Hopefully that
will not happen again. You are right, all right, You take care
you two all right? All right. So now our guest is Robert Power.
He was on once before and he's coming right up. I've got a
couple of phone Hi, I'm looking to speak with Robert. Who's calling.
This is Martin Willis, Matt took it, Mattie. He's not available right
now. I'm doing a live show with him and cannot get a hold of
him. So if he's there, he's he's wanting to talk to me.
Okay, hold on just a minute, because I know he was doing something.
Yes, thank you, Hi, Robert. Skype is not working on
your end. I just checked and it looks like my connection has broken.
I'm trying to repair it, which I don't really understand because my cell phone's
got a connection. Well, it's very strange because we had it. Must
be the government, that's all I can think of. Because my internet totally
went out on this end. I had to unplug my router and plug it
back in and it's working fine now, but very strange, both both connections
on both ends. But maybe that's why I should try. Yeah, well,
we can just keep going this way if you'd like. It is this
phone, okay with you? And are you comfortable? Yeah? Yeah,
this is fine all right and okay, so can you tell the first time
listener a little bit about yourself? Sure. I live in Austin, Texas.
My degrees in chemistry, and I spent most of my career, the
last thirty years in the semiconductor field. I was an engineering manager. I
worked on flash memory chips, on microprocessor chips, and I also managed a
state of the art chemistry laboratory as well as a state of the art research
and development laboratory. I retired early when I was in my fifties, and
I went ahead and started doing the things I really enjoyed doing, one of
which was to investigate the UFO phenomenon. So I've spent the last ten years
actually probably putting in fifteen to twenty hours a week on that, just like
it was a job. And you know, i became the director of research
at Muthon and I've done a lot of interesting investigations in addition to talk to
personally, interviewing probably over one hundred and fifty people. I've did the Studentville
Lights investigation back in two thousand and eight, and then recently I did a
detail investigation on Argwadia, which was our video that occurred in Puerto Rico.
Right, I thought we could talk a little bit about that, um as
well, you know, along with this new group that you have started.
UM. But UM, that one in particular, was there ever any consensus
about what that? I know people were saying it was a balloon, you
know, you heard everything, But was there ever any consensus of what that
may end up being or is that still an unknown? It's still an unknown?
Um. You know, people that advanced various theories, right, such
as a balloon. I think I think that the better theory would be some
type of advanced drone. But there's a few problems from that theory. Right
when it goes into the water. Pardon when it goes into the water.
That's a little tough for a drone these days, right that that, But
what really makes it difficult is for a drone to come out of the water
at high speed. Yeah, they actually we research that and there are some
drones that can enter the water and move through the water at a good good
speed right from camp. Can they do that right from the air or or
do they have really Yeah, Bowing actually has developed a drone flies like an
airplane and then it blows its wings off right before it impacts the water,
and then it goes into the water like a torpedo, and then and it
maintains um, you know, fairly high lost the underwater. The problem is
though, that that drone can't come back out of the water. Yeah,
and that's what happens on the video. Um. You know that that we're
looked that we looked at. Um. You know, some people argue that,
well, maybe it didn't really go in the water, but they have
yet could advance a strong argument is to why this object would not have actually
been in the water. But it's just an image issue because there are times
where the image is crystal clear and disappears and it comes back crystal clear.
So that's that's not indicative of a video system that is at its limit of
capabilities and then you suddenly lose the object because then you wouldn't have it come
back and you know it's a clear object again. Now I have taken a
look at that video myself. Very interesting and one of the you know,
my first or a thought I had at one time was a balloon. But
I understand there was all types of maneuvers where that wouldn't really fit in.
And also the question I have, do I recall that that either splits into
two objects or was that some type of reflection? No, it splits into
two objects. We cannot explain that as a reflection. So there's you know,
so they're all all of the debunkers are always trying to come up with
some type of theory, right. They never really put out a full report
and explain the video from beginning to end, but they try to look at
pieces of it. So one one theory was, ooh, maybe it's a
pair of Chinese lanterns that were tied together and then they tore apart right after
they disappeared into water. And then of course they have to say, well,
they didn't really go in the water in order to make that argument.
But probably the biggest problem with a Chinese lantern is it in order to meet
the balloon theory requirements, these lanterns would have to move with twenty to twenty
five miles per hour. And the problem there is a Chinese lander won't survive
it speeds much above five miles per hour. You mean I'll just tear apart
basically, right, Yeah, they will basically collapse because it's basic. All
it is is a handlets inside a very lightweight envelope, right, and it's
just pushing hot air to the top and so that makes it rise. Well,
if the wind impacts the side of it and collapses it, well you
know, longer or lighter than air, and so then it quickly drops.
So for there's no way this could have been you know, Chinese lanterns now.
Has anyone good explanation so far? Yeah? Has anyone? And you
know, I know that there were some people on the team that we're looking
at this seriously that really wanted to remain anonymous. UM. And those are
people of um, you know, basic science. UM if I remember,
right, is that true? Well, the guys who wrote the reports,
myself, I have a science background, uh Carl, Um, I can't
recall last name. Holds that at the Carl Paulson in Carl's back degrees in
physics. He got his physics degree at New York University and then he worked
at Princeton Laboratories. He worked for Lockheed. Very intelligent guy, so he
was a key person in the analysis. And then a guy by the name
of Larry Kates who was his degrees in mathematics and he did a lot of
the statistical work on it as well as you know, just a lot of
the calculations. And then Morgan Bale, whose background is in Earth sciences,
and then of course Richard Hoffmann who works at the Army Material Command and he's
an engineer there. So those are the main guys that worked on it.
We also had as soon as we release support report, we had a I
guess what you might call an IR technician, Contactice, because he worked on
those exact same video systems. This was the MX fifteen and he worked on
them in Puerto Rico. He said he may have worked on the exact unit
that took the photo. You know, he doesn't know, but he was
very familiar with them. And he showed these videos to the other technicians in
their lab and they said they couldn't identify what it was. Your comment was,
what was so unique to them was that the object was so easy to
see. That was to them what was unique about it. I see now,
can you remind me, because it's suspend a while since I looked at
this, was there actually radar data as well? Yes, we obtained radar
data from the FAA and the radar data does not pick up the object.
Is the plane is video in it. What the radar data did pick up,
though, is it detected an unknown object in the same area that this
object came towards the Puerto Rico from just northwest of the island, about two
miles offshore. So radar picks up an unusual object approaching of Puerto Rico.
And what was unusual also was that the radar was basically scanning every ten seconds,
and so instead of seeing an object that's moving in a straight line,
there was an object without a transponder, right, So I think it's primary
radar and it's just jumping around. It's moving in a general direction. And
I never could figure out this, so that that's just really strange. It
just doesn't make any sense why it would do that. I mean, the
only thing I could say for certain was there was some unknown in that area.
But I couldn't not explain, you know, why this seemingly random movement.
And when I say random, it's moving in a direction, but it's
hot scotching around. Is it moves in that direction? And we send a
copy of the report to the French Group Sigma three AF, which is a
group of French scientists that at one time were part of you know CNS and
their programs, and they brought up a good point and then I researched it
and said, yeah, I guess they've got a good point here. That's
very typical of an object that's jamming a radar signal, really see the yeah,
just I mean, and you can jam radar signals in different ways.
And the way I suspect this was occurring, and this is just purely a
hypothetical gas, right, is that the object may have had a plasma around
it. In plasmas will cause a radar being to skip and jump. So
that's just my guess. But that was very interesting that, you know,
I mean, what are the odds that we would pick up this unknown object
right before this object approaches Puerto Rico and the recently, yeah, that it
disappeared off radar, you know, once it came over the island. Was
we just I calculated the distance that the radar could still detect the object based
on altitude, and once the object would drop below about four hundred feet,
it would drop below radar. So that that was the theory is it was
probably above four hundred feet was picked up on radar. Then want to drop
below four hundred feet then you can't teat on radar anymore. Wow, well
that is h yeah, that is quite a case. And and it's something
when something like this happens, Um, it just seems to go so far
and then it kind of, I don't know, fades away, don't you
do you feel that way? You know, like people stop talking about it
and there's never a conclusion. Right, yeah, that's um, you know
that's the problem. And you find you right, is that there's no there's
no organization that continually follows all of these together, you know, like a
government type of organization, and it's you know, you here unless you know,
unless you have a spaceship that lands or something hard and concrete that you
can grab. Um, people lose interest and they just jump from one story
to the next without really looking at Okay, where are the really important cases
versus just you know lights the sky for example, right right? And you
know that I think in general society has changed in that way. And I
think it has to do with just all the information coming at us in all
different ways all the time. You know, Oh yeah, you're right,
Like I monitored this a little bit on YouTube, and on YouTube you can
see how long the average person looked at the video. Yeah, I mean
the average person didn't look at the video for more than oh, probably forty
I think it was around isn't that amazing? Most Yeah? Yeah, they
never even saw the object split. They never saw the object go into the
water because they turned it off before it ever got there. Yeah. Yeah,
yeah. It really really takes something to keep someone's attention. And I
do understand that. I mean I can't even get through my email. It's
something so um. So let's talk that case is really fascinating to me and
I and if there's ever any chances an update, I'd love to know.
I'd love to know about that. And let's talk a little bit about the
new organization that you just It just was founded recently, not too long ago,
right suh. That's that's correct. We created it in August, Scientific
Coalition Preuthology, which we just call SCUM, and it's done real well.
I mean, the basic concept is that we want people with either law enforcement,
investigative pint backgrounds, or science backgrounds. And so currently we have thirty
five members and of those thirty five members, nine members have PhDs of all
the members have college degrees. Um. And then we've we have a board
that kind of reviews the resumes of any individuals interested in joining, and UM
we we pretty much, you know, try to avoid bringing in anyone who
has um kind of a non scientific view of the phenomenon. So UM,
So we've got within the group, we've got like PhDs, a PhD and
oceanography, a PhD in physics, PhD in psychology. Uh. And then
we've got masters and bachelor's degrees and electrical engineering, chemistry, physics, all
of the major science sciences, PhD in biochemistry. UM. So that tells
you that there's a lot of scientists who are interested in this phenomenon if it's
investigated in a serious manner, and that is your attemptum, that is your
mission statement is investigating these um. Now, so who decides the cases that
you're going to choose to investigate? Um? Well, the way we're currently
set up, we actually have not gotten to the point yet of investigating a
specific case other than aud aguld be a Puerto Rico case, right, which
was the very first case that we did, but that was before we created
the organization. So now an anytime we find a case that looks like it
has heard evidence, then we will collect a group of individuals and we will
investigate the case. But I would say on average, you only usually have
one or two good cases a year, And by a good case, I
mean a case that you either have a lot of witnesses or you have some
type of strong photograph or video, something that can be analyzed, kind of
like the Stephenville case or the Auguidya case. You know, something that you
can kind of stink your teeth into it. Yes, we're talking prior back
when both of our internets were working. We were talking ahead of the show
about how elusive you know UFOs are and how you know, if you're doing
scientific research, how difficult it is to do. It's not replicable, right,
It's it's not like you can stood out someplace and say, okay,
I know there will be a UFO show up here today. It's you know,
it's on the schedule. Yeah, it just doesn't work that way.
Yeah. I think Bob Lazzar would argue with you on that one. Oh
yeah, yeah, he would probably say, yeah, there's a place you
can go and see them all the time. Yeah, well yeah, Um,
so now, um, the uh, the the the website address,
let's just get that out real quickly. Yeah, that is uh ww excuse
me, it's www dot um SCU dot org. Oh okay, I think
I might have a different UM website up. I'll have to check that out.
So UM, I wish you luck. I hope UM you have it.
I think you're right. I'm sorry, Uh, Martin, you're right.
It's explore SCU dot org. Yeah, that's that sounds right. Yeah.
Yeah, so um, let's hope UM some really good cases. I
see you can actually report a case UM there as well. And also,
let's talk quickly about UFO Data, because that is another organization you're involved,
and that's got to be what three years old or two years old? Now,
uh yeah, UFO Data is three years old. I'm not as actively
involved in that organization, but I'm part of the organization. It's a basic
mission is to develop a basically an optical system that takes spectra of lights at
night so that you can analyze the photo. And the system that's been developed
so far actually takes two images. One's an optical image and then the others
a spectra. The most difficult part that you know, the UFO Data Group
has run into is basically the software issues that surround when you know, how
a camera recognizes an object right and without being confused by falling leaf for movements
and clouds, insects that go by those kind of things. So that's the
most difficult part of developing the system. Yeah, there's going to be a
lot of algorithm writing to get around all that, right, you know,
a lot of a lot of development to get something like that going. So
let's talk about the Nimitz case, which is another fascinating case. The first
I know, I know people were talking about it before, but the first
I heard about it is when Chris Chris Mellon talked about it. But you
have how long have you been researching that case? In particular? I actually
first found out about this case in July of two thousand and sixteen. It's
kind of the interesting story because what I found out about it, it wasn't
the rest of it. It wasn't really out there in the UFO world per
se. I think there had been something that cropped up in around the year
two thousand and seven on a website called the Bovetop Secret. Oh yeah,
but that was all that was all there was, and there wasn't much about
the case at that point in time. But in mid twenty sixteen, a
gentleman that I've known for a number of years who is not in the mainstream
ufology world, but I know that he works with the government and he has
done work for organizations related to UFOs in the government. Now I was meeting
with him and he was we were talking about the Agradia case, and so
he said, well, I've got an interesting case that you might be want
to hear a little bit about. And he had a folder that was a
half inch thick on this case, but he wouldn't he wouldn't let me see
the folder, but he told me some things about the case. And then
he said, but by the way, someone who's leaked it to the internet,
so if you want to do a little googling, you won't have any
problem finding it. And so that's what I proceeded to do, and I
found the magazine article by a former Navy colonel. His name's a Pucko,
if I remember, if I can pronounce his last name correct, I think
something like chick Kerry or something like that. But probably a number of your
listeners may have seen this website. So I found the website. So what
attracted me to it was it was not a typical UFO website, all right,
This was actually on a navy blog. And so I looked at the
writer's blog other blogs, right, and they're all about navy items. This
is his only right up on a UFO and he's using Navy lingo through the
whole thing. He takes time in the beginning to say, you know,
this is pretty crazy, and so I'm going to start off by telling you
how strong the witnesses will are in terms of their credibility. And so he
goes through that, and so as soon as I read that, I said,
okay, this is a legitimate case. This is not, you know,
just some wild case out there. So I began The first thing I
had to do was go look up all the Navy lingo so that I could
understand exactly what these guys were saying happen. And so once I did that,
the next step was in late December of two thousands sixteen, I sent
out I think about eleven foyas and I think, all totally now, I've
sent out thirteen foyas. So I sent them out to every different navy organization
to find out information, because it's probably good at this point that tell your
audience kind of what basically happened. So there's a US naval group out about
seventy miles west of San Diego. It's November of two thousand and four,
and they have been the USS Princeton, which is missile frigate, had one
of the top radar systems of that time, which was called us BY one
radar system, and they've been detecting an object apparently for several days that would
be up at eighty thousand feet and then it would be down to fifty feet
two hundred feet above the ocean floor, and so on this particular day,
I'm much sure what motivated them to do this, but the Princeton picks us
up these two objects up or one, I'm not sure if it's one or
two objects that pick them up on radar, and they call in a marine
at eighteen. It's a colonel, a lieutenant Colonel Kurtz, who also happened
to be the commanding officer of that of an entire marine squadron. So they
give him the coordinates and he's flying two coordinates before he gets there. The
Princeton radios him and tells him to break off because they're sending two Navy super
Hornets, which is just you know, a more advanced at eighteen to the
target. But since he's in the area, he goes ahead and flies by,
and he never sees the target, but he sees this huge bubbling area
in the ocean, which to him, the best explanation is like a ship
that has just sunk, because he says, the water is glassy clear that
day except for this one area. So he breaks off and goes from the
area, and then the other two f eighteens who the commander of the group,
which is called the Black aces off of the ussnmits command. The commander's
last name is Freiber. He's headed there with his wing guy and is they
approach, they don't see anything on radar, but once they get close enough
and get to the target, they see the target that the USS Princeton has
vectored them to it. And what they see is basically he describes it as
a tick tack, So it's basically, you know, like those candies,
it's oval type object, and the commander believes that to a tack. He
said, there's no wings there's no method of propulsion. It's just fair in
the sky. And but then it turns its nose towards him, and when
he does that, when it does that, he assumes that that's an aggressive
move, and so one of the F eighteens I think, changes to a
different altitude and then his F eighteen engages the object. Now he doesn't have
any weaponry on board. He's just I guess, doing his Bandard maneuvers,
which yeah, I'm not familiar with those, not being in the Native,
but my understanding is that's what happens is he's trying to do a maneuver,
so he gets behind the object, and the object actually gets behind him,
and so he's never able to do that. He's, you know, he
does various maneuvers, and then finally this object just takes off in leads.
So he and the other F eighteen, you know, they they're not able
to match that speed, so they just head back to the Nimits. As
they're heading back to the Nimitz, the USS Princeton calls them and says,
you'll never guess, but the object is back at its same cap, and
cap just means that's its location where it was first found by the USS Princeton.
And so the commander says, well, you know, we're we're low
on fuel. Now we cannot you know, turn back around and go back
there. So they proceed to the Nimits and the Nimitz sends two more F
eighteens to that target. And it's at this point it's not real clear if
if it was the first two F eighteens or the second two FF eighteens that
apparently took a video of the obig, but I'm pretty sure it was the
second pair of faighteens. And and the story of what happens to them,
you know, And we don't have because the guy who wrote the Navy blog
was familiar with this Captain Fravar, I mean not captain, but the commander
Fravar and Lieutenant Colonel Kurth, who was the commander of the marine a marine
squadron. So what his story basically is the story from those two officers,
and we don't have the story of whoever, you know, the two F
eighteens that went out later. Now when this when they flew over and they
saw the bubbling in the water, were they assuming that the thing went underwater?
And I heard you say early on that it was down to one hundred
feet above the ocean floor, so that means they were actually tracking it under
water. Oh no, okay, I'm sorry, one hundred feet about the
ocean surface. A surface, okay, uh, just about the ocean surface.
Now. The UM in the article that's written the marine Cornel doesn't draw
any conclusions as to whether something you know, that this was the object he
was going to find or anything. His only conclusion was the ocean water was
crystal clear, you know, much more calm than normal, except in this
area where it looked like an object the size of a ship had just sunned.
Yeah, because of turbulence in that area. But he did not know
what caused it, or he didn't see anything that caused that. That's he
only saw the water turbinos. So do you think at this point that this
UM? I know you did yours and we can talk more about that.
But at this point is this case classified as far as you know what you
mean, classified by the military. Yes, so far, and all of
my foyas that have been denied. The Navy has never said that this information
is classified, and that's why we can't send it to what they've said every
time was that they just don't have the logs. And so basically what they've
said is five different naval assets, right the USS limits, the USS Princeton,
the Navy squadron, the Marine F eighteen, and there was also what's
called an E two Hawkeye, which is an airborne early warning aircraft that was
in the area that also picked up the object on their radar. All five
of those navy asks, when I sent foys, every time, the response
came back was that we have no information, we don't have those logs,
we don't have anything. So they never used they never claimed classication or top
secret. However, when I asked for the decklogs of the USS Princeton,
I received that same reply that we don't have any decklogs, and a foy
officer, because you know, these foy officers that you send these requests to,
they're not really in the business. They're trying to hide information from you.
They're just you know, they're doing their clerical job. And this this
FOY officer did say this to me. He said, that's very unusual that
they can't give you the decklogs. And he said it it's so unlikely that
they've lost the decklogs that it's more likely that they have classified it and it's
classified high enough that he you know, he's not even aware of the classification.
So he's so basically he's saying, if it's classified like top secret for
example, he's never as a FOY officer, he's never going to know that.
All he's just going to hear is we don't have those logs. I
thought that was uh, I thought that was kind of against the Freedom of
Information Act. But maybe I just don't know enough about that. I thought
that, um so once hit something hits classified, that it's just pulled out
of the loop and you have to wait until after that changes, say you
know, twenty five years later or fifty years later or something. Right,
Yeah, if it's classified or if it's secret, of it's top secret,
they don't have to give you that information. In other words, they don't
even have to acknowledge that it exists at all. I'm not sure if they
have to acknowledge it exists at all, but I know it is a practice
to just say it doesn't exist, does not exist, even though it does.
Because I've done enough for you, is I just see that happen?
Now? Sometimes what I think happens also, Martin is it's a lot of
work for them to go find this information right, and in some cases they
just say, hey, you know, I don't want to be messed with
that we don't have the data, or I've heard I've heard replies that we
can't find it right, which sounds even more suspicious. That's actually what my
appeal was. So for example, when I appealed one of the foils,
the first appeal was just turned down. They just said, nope, we
agree, because you really are appealing to the Navy, just to a higher
up. You're appealing to JAG, which is the Navy's basically they're legal arm
and so they just said, nope, we agree that they they've done a
reasonable search and that's all they have to do is a reasonable search. And
so then they give you the legal cases that support, you know, what
defines the reasonable search. So then I sent back a second appeal on another
one of the foyers, and I noticed on the email it was the same
JAG officers that we're going to evaluate that one. So I sent them an
additional email where a basic class said, I understand your first argument, and
there's some validity to that I said, However, in this case, what
I'm arguing is, you've got five different navy assets, right, and you're
going to tell me that it's reasonable that you can't find documents on any of
five navy assets that we're in a navy exercise on that day. And so
this time, after I sent that to them, they said, well,
we'll take that into consideration. So I think they said, Okay, we
got to throw this guy a bone. So they sent me back a partial
This time, they give me partial acceptance on my appeal, and they sent
me some emails back. And I was really surprised that these guys sent me
these emails. This email the first one, and I opened up and I'm
looking in. It's from a lieutenant colonel and they have seen the jag officers
have asked him, have you ever heard this case? Blah blah blah.
Right, his response is, um, oh, the tic TACs. Yeah,
we know all about the tic TACs. And I'm just like wow,
So okay, so now they're admitting that this happened and it's just a question
of finding the logs, and um, another lieutenant colonel, Uh, this
guy was my second guy. He was was on Lieutenant Carl he was a
major, and he said, uh, well, we don't have these documents
because they're you know, they're over ten years old, and so they would
be in the archives. And so then he then he writes in his email,
I'm sure you can find a point of contact that could find the documents
in the archives from mister Powell. And so of course I've sent sent them
another appeal that I want them to go search the archives because they think all
they did initially is they just asked the squadrons, had you have these documents
from the year two thousand and four. Well, now they don't have documents,
squadrons, I can keep documents that old. So they never really went
and looked in the archives. So that that appeal is still out outstanding.
It's been it's almost two months old now, hum, and I know,
go ahead, Mark no doubt that this happened. Um, you know the
event happened. My understanding is that there was a Navy Inspector General actually investigated
the case. But I can't prove that that's that's all. You're safe from
what I've heard some far. So now I played up on YouTube. I
played the video that it shows online is that an authentic video? Do you
know anything about that? Okay, something familiar with the video. It's we
don't know for certain that that is the video that was taken by the FA
teens. What we did know is that the FA teams did take video because
in my FOYA reply that's noted in the Lieutenant Colonels email, he said,
we a lot of us saw the video. So apparently these guys got the
video and they were playing it among the other various officers on board the ship,
So we know video exists. What I don't know for certain is the
video that was released on the internet. And that video was actually released in
two thousand and seven on the Internet, and so various people made arguments about,
oh, maybe it's a fake video because it was released on a German
video, a German media video type site, you know that makes movies and
things. So whether or not that is the video, I can't say for
certain. I actually suspect it is a copy of the original video. And
the reason I say that is the altitude that's shown on the video of twenty
thousand feet is the same altitude approximately that the commanding officer of the f A
team said they were at when they encountered the what he called the tic TACs.
So I suspect it is, you know, but we don't know for
certain. And to me, what's the most important important part about this case
is not whether that video is the you know, is the real video or
not. To me, the important part of the case is that we've got
testimony from Navy and Marine officers that this event happened, and those that eighteens
were sent off of the nimits to intercept this object and they and the lead
at eighteen who was the commanding officer, engaged the object with his aircraft.
So you know, to me that that eliminates just about everything. And my
view is I just want to know, you know, why can't the Navy
just tell us what they know. I don't understand their need to hide that
information. Yeah, it's probably up above them. Who knows. Um,
So, did you actually speak to the witnesses or was there you know,
was a communication through email or or how what happened? And that when it
comes to the witnesses. Okay, so the witnesses, I have not been
in communication with any of the witnesses. I do know an individual who contacted
me and actually made communication with Lieutenant Colonel Kurth and remember he was the marine
who was in the first F eighteen that all he saw was the water disturbance.
Well, so he called Lieutenant Colonel kurt and he said that it was
very polite conversation. He said, the gentleman spoke very slowly, very distinctly,
and you know, he was very confident in everything he said. And
he said that this is interesting. The first thing he found out was that
Lieutenant Colonel Kurve actually worked for Bigelow after he left the service. And of
course we all know Bigelow's UFOs right now. Whether or not that's coincidence or
part of the reason he was initially hired, you know, there's no way
to know. But in his conversation, the lieutenant colonel did say that he
could not comment any further on the case because of his prior job agreement,
you know, with Bigelow Industries. So I thought that was interesting. That
is so, what is what is the protocol for like to say, you're
investigating this case and you see the person's name that wrote that blog, and
you are actually able to get a connection to contact that person, and what
is a protocol for doing something like that. Well, I'm myself, I'm
you know, somewhat leary on that, right, because I just hate intruding
on someone's private life. You know, the guy who contacted the colonel,
Lieutenant Colonel Kurth, I guess it was not as you know, it wasn't
as big an issue for him. Um. And most of these guys,
like, for example, the the commanding officer of the F eighteen that engaged
it, who was Lieutenant I was Commander David Freibour of the Black Aces,
which is Nameth, his super Hornic group. I've I was able to determine
where he lived, and he had just just moved within I think a month
when I determined it, and so I spent him him a registered letter,
certified letter so they would come back, um, you know, if he
would if he you know, if if if it picked up where he had
moved to, if he'd done a change of address or whatever. And you
know, I never received a letter back or a reply. And you know,
I just send a real nice, polite letter. A lot of these
guys after they get out of the military, they work in the defense industry.
And you know, the UFO topic is when I say it's it's like
the great I love, um you know the quote, it's the Great Taboo.
It's it's it's not like, you know, I don't think it's like
someone said, Okay, you can't you know, don't ever talk about UFOs.
But it's like if you're in that industry and you do talk about it,
it's almost like you you're talking about a ghost, right, Like it's
almost like I saw a ghost this morning. Yeah, I walked right across
my living room, and you get the same kind of reaction. It's about.
I think it's interesting that Bob Bigelow, for one, it's not too
afraid to talk about it. No, No, he's not. Of course,
I guess he has He's the guy that does the hiring, right,
so yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't have to have any fear about his
job. But um, I think most other you know, other guys do
have concerns about talking about it. That's a lot of the reason why a
lot of the times military guys that talk about it, they've they've been retired
and they're in their seventies or eighties. M right, No one's going to
really bother them at this point. So, um, it's after UM,
it's after the hour, and I'm going to put out there that if anyone
wants to call in and ask our guests some questions and you're alive and watching
on YouTube, Um, you'll see the number underneath in the description. It's
six h three nine six seven four h three zero if you'd like to call
in and ask our guests a question. UM, So where do you think
this particular case, Um, where do you think it's going to go?
Do you think some more more people will be engaged eventually in talking about the
incident? Yeah, I think I think there will be more information that comes
out on the case. I was talking to Chris Mellen, and you know
Chris is part of the Belongs to the Stars group. Yeah, and I've
known Chris, I guess probably four years. I have not met him in
person, but he's a what I consider a fairly conservative person in terms of
his views on the UFO for dominance. So he's pretty down to earth on
it. And he indicated to me that, you know, they would have
more they have more information on this particular case. So it would be interesting
to see if he has some, you know, some additional information. Now
he was in office when this was happening. But you know, I know
how compartmentalized everything is. I'm sure he probably never knew anything about it.
Actually he told me he had heard about it. Really wow. Uh yeah,
and you know he was he was confident that it had occurred. He
didn't know that at that time when I talked to him about this. I
first talked to him about the case. And well, not too long after
I found out in mid twenty sixteen, and he was confident. At that
point this is long be four you know, to the Stars group had been
formed, right, And at that point in time, he was confident that
this had happened, and he was aware of the four years I was going
to be sending out and you know, he was supported. He was supported
of all that. But now he clearly has gotten some more information within the
last six months. All right, everyone, So that's it for the three
part of the show. Thanks so much for listening. Remember, if you
can't help us out, support us for two dollars or more a month.
You can always listen to us on the Dark Matter Digital Network and that's ten
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to full shows and archives. And next week we have Peter Davenport coming up,
always a fun guest, so thanks again and remember to keep your eyes
to the sky.