WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.040 Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You know, there's explanation for 2 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:07.480 everything that occurred in the Randall Shamparscient. It doesn't involve aliens at all. 3 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:14.839 It was completely silent. It comes right over our heads. He's also really 4 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:17.920 standing into clearing. He turned over to my father and held his hand, 5 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:24.480 and he looked in his eyes and he said, we're not alone. Welcome 6 00:00:24.519 --> 00:00:29.719 to Podcast UFO for our live show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm 7 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:35.479 Eastern Standard time. Please remember to visit the website podcast ufo dot com for 8 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:40.560 past episodes, blogs and forums. During the show, feel free to participate 9 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:44.439 live in our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very 10 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:49.320 active Facebook page. Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, 11 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:53.679 your host, and we have Alejandro Rojas coming up in just a minute 12 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:58.679 with UFO updates. Our guest today, we have Robert Powell and we're gonna 13 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:03.000 be talking about the SEU. It's a new organization startup, and we're gonna 14 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:10.120 be talking about the USS Nimits two thousand and four UFO case, the tic 15 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:15.599 TAC case. It's otherwise known as and just a couple of things. If 16 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.680 you support the show. I want to thank you very much. Anyone can 17 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:22.640 support the show, whether on YouTube or wherever you are. All you have 18 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:26.280 to do is go to podcast ufo dot com and there's right out on the 19 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:30.599 top menu bar, and that way you get access to the full two hour 20 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:38.200 shows archives. And also I do want to give a shout out to the 21 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:42.040 people at the dark Matter Digital Network because I am shocked at how many people 22 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:48.439 listen to the show over there. So hello everyone, And so that show 23 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.920 is on Thursdays. It's a full show. You can listen to it as 24 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:57.400 a podcast Thursdays and that's ten to midnight on the dark Matter Digital Network. 25 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.239 So if you can't support the show and you want to listen for free, 26 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:05.120 you can do it that way. You can also watch on YouTube and we're 27 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:08.360 live on YouTube every Wednesday night at eight to ten pm Eastern Standard time. 28 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:15.599 And that is it for me. Hello Alejandro, Hello, how are you? 29 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:19.560 You were stuck in traffic. I just had to put that announcement up, 30 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:23.159 but you made it. Yeah, I did make it. So I'm 31 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:28.639 so sorry for being tardy. I always am such a such a pain, 32 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:34.360 but not at all. Your patience is appreciated, not at all, And 33 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:38.319 I am excited. I'm going to be helping out out at the UFO Congress. 34 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:42.919 I'm pretty excited about that. Yeah, that's going excited too. Yeah, 35 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.080 so it'll be Yeah, I just hope I don't you know how sometimes 36 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:50.360 it's a little tricky here when I'm doing the show live. I just hope 37 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.599 I don't cause any glitches there. That. Yeah, to talk Congress is 38 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:55.639 going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be cool. You'll 39 00:02:55.639 --> 00:03:00.439 be backstage, you'll be working cameras. You know, if we'll see you, 40 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:04.599 they can go high five you, yeah and say hello. So yeah, 41 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:07.280 well it's gonna be a lot of fun, a lot of cool speakers. 42 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:12.000 And you know, one of the speakers we're gonna have is um. 43 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:16.520 I don't know it's Robert. Yeah, he's still on UM. It's a 44 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:20.599 friend of Roberts, right, at least they're acquainted. And I haven't I 45 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.000 talked with Robert a lot. Robert Powell is awesome. You've got a great 46 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:28.960 guest for tonight and UM And I believe he's worked with Alan Holt, who 47 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:32.199 I believe someone that Robert has worked with him quite a bit because he's a 48 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:37.919 science type person. A NASA person and he helped out with move On for 49 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:43.960 quite a while, as did Robert, and hopefully Alan will maybe get on 50 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.680 board with our with this new project. I've been working with Robert with as 51 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:52.319 well, the SCU, which is really exciting and I think there's a lot 52 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.560 of really cool stuff that's going to come from that. So yeah, the 53 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:57.560 Congress is going to be a lot of fun. Oh that's what I was 54 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.439 saying. This is Alan Holki. He's going to be speaking. So he 55 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:02.719 worked for something like thirty to fifty years for NASA, a long, long, 56 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.680 long time. But he's really into UFO, so he's gonna be talking 57 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:13.599 about that interest and his research into UFOs that finally, now that he's retired, 58 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:16.439 he feels more comfortable to come out and speak about. Oh wow, 59 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:20.360 that's great. And so we're just having a little bit of a glitch, 60 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:26.959 Alajandro, the whole show seems to be frozen on YouTube. All right, 61 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:31.319 well let's keep going and show up. Yeah, all right, see you, 62 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:34.839 Okay, here we go. All right, well, let's keep going. 63 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:40.839 And I think I felt like I just already said that. Yeah. 64 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:46.199 Yeah, So people can check out the website UFO Congress Dot com and you'll 65 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.639 see a lot more you know, the Martin Willis. And we're not going 66 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:53.759 to really announce that or make a press release about it because it's kind of 67 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:59.560 a behind the scenes thing, but I know that you're listening audience will probably 68 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.639 be very excited about that. Oh that's good. Yeah, all right, 69 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:08.160 excellent. And what is going on in the UFO world? Yeah, so 70 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:13.759 some interesting things going on I was going to talk about here. One of 71 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:18.199 them is I found this interesting. So Philip Mantel, you've had him on 72 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:25.639 your show, UK Researcher. He occasionally writes for Open Mind sat TV, 73 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:31.519 and they recently wrote an article about these China Lake UFO photos. Not sure 74 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:35.639 if you've seen them at their kind of like throwback photos. They're similar to 75 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:41.800 the type of photos we saw in like the fifties and sixties, people like 76 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.240 what's his name, David Frye, right, something like that. It's last 77 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.319 same which fry There was this guy at White Sands who used to take pictures 78 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:55.560 that were kind of crazy like this. But there are and that's who this 79 00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:03.560 potential hoaxer could be trying to emulate here as these old time hoax photos. 80 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:10.079 So this photo is one of those too good to be true type of photos. 81 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:14.360 This person posted a few with Heatherweight, and you were just talking about 82 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:18.839 the dark Matter network. So this person said, I've got these crazy photos 83 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.600 I've been sitting on for ten years, what do you think? And uploaded 84 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:27.680 those and Heatherweight kind of sent those out to people and they've been very controversial. 85 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.600 They're supposedly at the China Lake kind of dry lake testing bed, top 86 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:36.439 secret kind of area in California, and there's a helicopter in the background in 87 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:44.040 one of two of the photos. And this strange I don't even know how 88 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:47.199 to describe kind of gum drops, like two gum drops put together with a 89 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:55.600 large end stuck together, kind of shaped objects silver, it's hard to tell 90 00:06:55.639 --> 00:07:00.560 how big it is, so really interesting photos. I'm of course always skeptical 91 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.720 right off the bat for better or whereas I apologize if that's frustrating, but 92 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:09.160 you know, we want to be very rigorous about how we look at these 93 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:14.800 things and put them under the paces to make sure they're genuine. What Philip 94 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:17.040 did was talked to a bunch of researchers. He was able to get a 95 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:21.920 hold with the alleged witness and then put together a story about this, and 96 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:28.399 what he found was kind of interesting. So researchers such as Bruce mccabee, 97 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.639 who worked for the Navy as an optical physicist, he at first thought they 98 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.439 were silly, but then he's kind of on the fence. He's not so 99 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:40.800 sure about it. And that's I find very interesting because I thought Bruce would 100 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:46.279 very quickly debunk the whole things. But there are some Brazilian researchers that bring 101 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:50.240 up some good points and they believe there to be hoaxes. And I couldn't 102 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.959 find the exact quote because I wanted to put it in the story, but 103 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:59.560 I did hear from Mark D'Antonio, who's move On photo analysts and also an 104 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:05.000 sc you member the organization Robert's going to be talking about. He does fill 105 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:09.279 the shadows or way off. The direction of the sunlight is also not consistent, 106 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.959 so he believes they're totally a hoax. But there's some very controversial photos. 107 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:18.439 And I'm glad that Philip put this together because it's kind of a Philip 108 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:22.439 does a good job and trying to get, you know, many angles about 109 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:28.079 these stories. So many different points of view are represented, and so yeah, 110 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:30.759 people can check that out. It open minds that TV to see these 111 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:35.759 kind of latest wild UFOs that are pictures that are making the rounds. And 112 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.519 is it a disc what type of craft are the Well, like I was 113 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:45.080 saying, it's it's hard to describe. Yeah, I think it's dubious. 114 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:50.000 I thought it was interesting though that people like Bruce mcabee think that it might 115 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.519 be a legit thing. So well, that's something worth checking out. And 116 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:58.440 then the only other story I wanted to mention was, and this is kind 117 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:03.600 of interesting, is this documentary called Love and Saucers explores the sexy alien encounters. 118 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:09.840 So it's a documentary focused on abduction stories. I have like a sexual 119 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.639 aspect where people have like had sex or maybe be even have fallen in love 120 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:22.200 with, you know, certain creatures according to them. So that's another story 121 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:28.600 you can find an open mindsett TV sounds really interesting, and I believe that 122 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:33.559 people who made these move this movie listens to us their listeners. Yeah, 123 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.279 all right, do I hear noise in your background there? Yeah, it's 124 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:43.919 people getting ready because we're supposed to be going side all right. Hey Alandro, 125 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:48.120 thanks so much, problem, Sorry for the glitches tonight. Hopefully that 126 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:52.480 will not happen again. You are right, all right, You take care 127 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:58.919 you two all right? All right. So now our guest is Robert Power. 128 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.759 He was on once before and he's coming right up. I've got a 129 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:09.519 couple of phone Hi, I'm looking to speak with Robert. Who's calling. 130 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:16.039 This is Martin Willis, Matt took it, Mattie. He's not available right 131 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:20.559 now. I'm doing a live show with him and cannot get a hold of 132 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:24.679 him. So if he's there, he's he's wanting to talk to me. 133 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.440 Okay, hold on just a minute, because I know he was doing something. 134 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:39.720 Yes, thank you, Hi, Robert. Skype is not working on 135 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:45.440 your end. I just checked and it looks like my connection has broken. 136 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:50.240 I'm trying to repair it, which I don't really understand because my cell phone's 137 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.279 got a connection. Well, it's very strange because we had it. Must 138 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.679 be the government, that's all I can think of. Because my internet totally 139 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.519 went out on this end. I had to unplug my router and plug it 140 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:07.039 back in and it's working fine now, but very strange, both both connections 141 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:13.039 on both ends. But maybe that's why I should try. Yeah, well, 142 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.799 we can just keep going this way if you'd like. It is this 143 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:20.399 phone, okay with you? And are you comfortable? Yeah? Yeah, 144 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:26.919 this is fine all right and okay, so can you tell the first time 145 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:33.639 listener a little bit about yourself? Sure. I live in Austin, Texas. 146 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:39.840 My degrees in chemistry, and I spent most of my career, the 147 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:46.200 last thirty years in the semiconductor field. I was an engineering manager. I 148 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:50.960 worked on flash memory chips, on microprocessor chips, and I also managed a 149 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:56.799 state of the art chemistry laboratory as well as a state of the art research 150 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:05.519 and development laboratory. I retired early when I was in my fifties, and 151 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:11.200 I went ahead and started doing the things I really enjoyed doing, one of 152 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.159 which was to investigate the UFO phenomenon. So I've spent the last ten years 153 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.840 actually probably putting in fifteen to twenty hours a week on that, just like 154 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:28.679 it was a job. And you know, i became the director of research 155 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:35.320 at Muthon and I've done a lot of interesting investigations in addition to talk to 156 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:41.919 personally, interviewing probably over one hundred and fifty people. I've did the Studentville 157 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:52.080 Lights investigation back in two thousand and eight, and then recently I did a 158 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:58.240 detail investigation on Argwadia, which was our video that occurred in Puerto Rico. 159 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:03.159 Right, I thought we could talk a little bit about that, um as 160 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:09.440 well, you know, along with this new group that you have started. 161 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:15.919 UM. But UM, that one in particular, was there ever any consensus 162 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.440 about what that? I know people were saying it was a balloon, you 163 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.679 know, you heard everything, But was there ever any consensus of what that 164 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:28.720 may end up being or is that still an unknown? It's still an unknown? 165 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.120 Um. You know, people that advanced various theories, right, such 166 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:39.039 as a balloon. I think I think that the better theory would be some 167 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:43.200 type of advanced drone. But there's a few problems from that theory. Right 168 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:48.000 when it goes into the water. Pardon when it goes into the water. 169 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:52.399 That's a little tough for a drone these days, right that that, But 170 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.879 what really makes it difficult is for a drone to come out of the water 171 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:01.519 at high speed. Yeah, they actually we research that and there are some 172 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:07.440 drones that can enter the water and move through the water at a good good 173 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:13.279 speed right from camp. Can they do that right from the air or or 174 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:18.960 do they have really Yeah, Bowing actually has developed a drone flies like an 175 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.039 airplane and then it blows its wings off right before it impacts the water, 176 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:28.759 and then it goes into the water like a torpedo, and then and it 177 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:35.600 maintains um, you know, fairly high lost the underwater. The problem is 178 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:39.039 though, that that drone can't come back out of the water. Yeah, 179 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:43.759 and that's what happens on the video. Um. You know that that we're 180 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:48.039 looked that we looked at. Um. You know, some people argue that, 181 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:52.320 well, maybe it didn't really go in the water, but they have 182 00:14:52.440 --> 00:15:01.080 yet could advance a strong argument is to why this object would not have actually 183 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.320 been in the water. But it's just an image issue because there are times 184 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.480 where the image is crystal clear and disappears and it comes back crystal clear. 185 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:16.000 So that's that's not indicative of a video system that is at its limit of 186 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.279 capabilities and then you suddenly lose the object because then you wouldn't have it come 187 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:26.559 back and you know it's a clear object again. Now I have taken a 188 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:31.440 look at that video myself. Very interesting and one of the you know, 189 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:33.480 my first or a thought I had at one time was a balloon. But 190 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.679 I understand there was all types of maneuvers where that wouldn't really fit in. 191 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:46.159 And also the question I have, do I recall that that either splits into 192 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:50.600 two objects or was that some type of reflection? No, it splits into 193 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:56.919 two objects. We cannot explain that as a reflection. So there's you know, 194 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.799 so they're all all of the debunkers are always trying to come up with 195 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.120 some type of theory, right. They never really put out a full report 196 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.600 and explain the video from beginning to end, but they try to look at 197 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.879 pieces of it. So one one theory was, ooh, maybe it's a 198 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:21.399 pair of Chinese lanterns that were tied together and then they tore apart right after 199 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.639 they disappeared into water. And then of course they have to say, well, 200 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.879 they didn't really go in the water in order to make that argument. 201 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:33.879 But probably the biggest problem with a Chinese lantern is it in order to meet 202 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:40.080 the balloon theory requirements, these lanterns would have to move with twenty to twenty 203 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:47.080 five miles per hour. And the problem there is a Chinese lander won't survive 204 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:52.759 it speeds much above five miles per hour. You mean I'll just tear apart 205 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:57.600 basically, right, Yeah, they will basically collapse because it's basic. All 206 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:07.839 it is is a handlets inside a very lightweight envelope, right, and it's 207 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.440 just pushing hot air to the top and so that makes it rise. Well, 208 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.039 if the wind impacts the side of it and collapses it, well you 209 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.400 know, longer or lighter than air, and so then it quickly drops. 210 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:26.680 So for there's no way this could have been you know, Chinese lanterns now. 211 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:32.720 Has anyone good explanation so far? Yeah? Has anyone? And you 212 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:36.680 know, I know that there were some people on the team that we're looking 213 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:41.599 at this seriously that really wanted to remain anonymous. UM. And those are 214 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:48.000 people of um, you know, basic science. UM if I remember, 215 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.880 right, is that true? Well, the guys who wrote the reports, 216 00:17:52.960 --> 00:18:00.400 myself, I have a science background, uh Carl, Um, I can't 217 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:07.880 recall last name. Holds that at the Carl Paulson in Carl's back degrees in 218 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:14.559 physics. He got his physics degree at New York University and then he worked 219 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:19.519 at Princeton Laboratories. He worked for Lockheed. Very intelligent guy, so he 220 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.599 was a key person in the analysis. And then a guy by the name 221 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:30.759 of Larry Kates who was his degrees in mathematics and he did a lot of 222 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:34.680 the statistical work on it as well as you know, just a lot of 223 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:41.400 the calculations. And then Morgan Bale, whose background is in Earth sciences, 224 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:51.880 and then of course Richard Hoffmann who works at the Army Material Command and he's 225 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:56.640 an engineer there. So those are the main guys that worked on it. 226 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:03.160 We also had as soon as we release support report, we had a I 227 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:08.599 guess what you might call an IR technician, Contactice, because he worked on 228 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:17.200 those exact same video systems. This was the MX fifteen and he worked on 229 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:21.839 them in Puerto Rico. He said he may have worked on the exact unit 230 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:25.519 that took the photo. You know, he doesn't know, but he was 231 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:30.519 very familiar with them. And he showed these videos to the other technicians in 232 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:37.319 their lab and they said they couldn't identify what it was. Your comment was, 233 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:45.839 what was so unique to them was that the object was so easy to 234 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:52.039 see. That was to them what was unique about it. I see now, 235 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:55.559 can you remind me, because it's suspend a while since I looked at 236 00:19:55.559 --> 00:20:03.359 this, was there actually radar data as well? Yes, we obtained radar 237 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:11.160 data from the FAA and the radar data does not pick up the object. 238 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:15.640 Is the plane is video in it. What the radar data did pick up, 239 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:22.400 though, is it detected an unknown object in the same area that this 240 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:29.440 object came towards the Puerto Rico from just northwest of the island, about two 241 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:34.880 miles offshore. So radar picks up an unusual object approaching of Puerto Rico. 242 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:44.720 And what was unusual also was that the radar was basically scanning every ten seconds, 243 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.839 and so instead of seeing an object that's moving in a straight line, 244 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.839 there was an object without a transponder, right, So I think it's primary 245 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:57.599 radar and it's just jumping around. It's moving in a general direction. And 246 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:00.640 I never could figure out this, so that that's just really strange. It 247 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.079 just doesn't make any sense why it would do that. I mean, the 248 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:08.960 only thing I could say for certain was there was some unknown in that area. 249 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:15.400 But I couldn't not explain, you know, why this seemingly random movement. 250 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.759 And when I say random, it's moving in a direction, but it's 251 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:23.279 hot scotching around. Is it moves in that direction? And we send a 252 00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:30.680 copy of the report to the French Group Sigma three AF, which is a 253 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:36.559 group of French scientists that at one time were part of you know CNS and 254 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:41.680 their programs, and they brought up a good point and then I researched it 255 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.599 and said, yeah, I guess they've got a good point here. That's 256 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:53.000 very typical of an object that's jamming a radar signal, really see the yeah, 257 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:59.519 just I mean, and you can jam radar signals in different ways. 258 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.160 And the way I suspect this was occurring, and this is just purely a 259 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:08.279 hypothetical gas, right, is that the object may have had a plasma around 260 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:15.279 it. In plasmas will cause a radar being to skip and jump. So 261 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.880 that's just my guess. But that was very interesting that, you know, 262 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:23.920 I mean, what are the odds that we would pick up this unknown object 263 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:30.880 right before this object approaches Puerto Rico and the recently, yeah, that it 264 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.680 disappeared off radar, you know, once it came over the island. Was 265 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:41.480 we just I calculated the distance that the radar could still detect the object based 266 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:47.680 on altitude, and once the object would drop below about four hundred feet, 267 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:52.799 it would drop below radar. So that that was the theory is it was 268 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.960 probably above four hundred feet was picked up on radar. Then want to drop 269 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:02.599 below four hundred feet then you can't teat on radar anymore. Wow, well 270 00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:07.640 that is h yeah, that is quite a case. And and it's something 271 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.559 when something like this happens, Um, it just seems to go so far 272 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.720 and then it kind of, I don't know, fades away, don't you 273 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:18.920 do you feel that way? You know, like people stop talking about it 274 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:26.119 and there's never a conclusion. Right, yeah, that's um, you know 275 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.279 that's the problem. And you find you right, is that there's no there's 276 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.920 no organization that continually follows all of these together, you know, like a 277 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:41.000 government type of organization, and it's you know, you here unless you know, 278 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.519 unless you have a spaceship that lands or something hard and concrete that you 279 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:51.599 can grab. Um, people lose interest and they just jump from one story 280 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:57.119 to the next without really looking at Okay, where are the really important cases 281 00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:03.480 versus just you know lights the sky for example, right right? And you 282 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:08.599 know that I think in general society has changed in that way. And I 283 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:14.000 think it has to do with just all the information coming at us in all 284 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:18.319 different ways all the time. You know, Oh yeah, you're right, 285 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.559 Like I monitored this a little bit on YouTube, and on YouTube you can 286 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.559 see how long the average person looked at the video. Yeah, I mean 287 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:32.839 the average person didn't look at the video for more than oh, probably forty 288 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:37.359 I think it was around isn't that amazing? Most Yeah? Yeah, they 289 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.119 never even saw the object split. They never saw the object go into the 290 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:45.759 water because they turned it off before it ever got there. Yeah. Yeah, 291 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:51.319 yeah. It really really takes something to keep someone's attention. And I 292 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:57.960 do understand that. I mean I can't even get through my email. It's 293 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.519 something so um. So let's talk that case is really fascinating to me and 294 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:07.319 I and if there's ever any chances an update, I'd love to know. 295 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:15.559 I'd love to know about that. And let's talk a little bit about the 296 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:21.440 new organization that you just It just was founded recently, not too long ago, 297 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:27.519 right suh. That's that's correct. We created it in August, Scientific 298 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:34.359 Coalition Preuthology, which we just call SCUM, and it's done real well. 299 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:40.920 I mean, the basic concept is that we want people with either law enforcement, 300 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:47.720 investigative pint backgrounds, or science backgrounds. And so currently we have thirty 301 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:56.640 five members and of those thirty five members, nine members have PhDs of all 302 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:03.279 the members have college degrees. Um. And then we've we have a board 303 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:11.400 that kind of reviews the resumes of any individuals interested in joining, and UM 304 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:18.960 we we pretty much, you know, try to avoid bringing in anyone who 305 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:25.519 has um kind of a non scientific view of the phenomenon. So UM, 306 00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:30.960 So we've got within the group, we've got like PhDs, a PhD and 307 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:37.160 oceanography, a PhD in physics, PhD in psychology. Uh. And then 308 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:44.920 we've got masters and bachelor's degrees and electrical engineering, chemistry, physics, all 309 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:52.000 of the major science sciences, PhD in biochemistry. UM. So that tells 310 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.880 you that there's a lot of scientists who are interested in this phenomenon if it's 311 00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:06.000 investigated in a serious manner, and that is your attemptum, that is your 312 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:14.799 mission statement is investigating these um. Now, so who decides the cases that 313 00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:22.599 you're going to choose to investigate? Um? Well, the way we're currently 314 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:27.039 set up, we actually have not gotten to the point yet of investigating a 315 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:33.640 specific case other than aud aguld be a Puerto Rico case, right, which 316 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:40.000 was the very first case that we did, but that was before we created 317 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.319 the organization. So now an anytime we find a case that looks like it 318 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:52.839 has heard evidence, then we will collect a group of individuals and we will 319 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.440 investigate the case. But I would say on average, you only usually have 320 00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:02.680 one or two good cases a year, And by a good case, I 321 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:07.319 mean a case that you either have a lot of witnesses or you have some 322 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:14.119 type of strong photograph or video, something that can be analyzed, kind of 323 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:19.640 like the Stephenville case or the Auguidya case. You know, something that you 324 00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:26.480 can kind of stink your teeth into it. Yes, we're talking prior back 325 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.759 when both of our internets were working. We were talking ahead of the show 326 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:37.400 about how elusive you know UFOs are and how you know, if you're doing 327 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:45.440 scientific research, how difficult it is to do. It's not replicable, right, 328 00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:49.279 It's it's not like you can stood out someplace and say, okay, 329 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:53.920 I know there will be a UFO show up here today. It's you know, 330 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:57.720 it's on the schedule. Yeah, it just doesn't work that way. 331 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:03.839 Yeah. I think Bob Lazzar would argue with you on that one. Oh 332 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.279 yeah, yeah, he would probably say, yeah, there's a place you 333 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:08.559 can go and see them all the time. Yeah, well yeah, Um, 334 00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:15.480 so now, um, the uh, the the the website address, 335 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:22.039 let's just get that out real quickly. Yeah, that is uh ww excuse 336 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:33.480 me, it's www dot um SCU dot org. Oh okay, I think 337 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.119 I might have a different UM website up. I'll have to check that out. 338 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.960 So UM, I wish you luck. I hope UM you have it. 339 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.279 I think you're right. I'm sorry, Uh, Martin, you're right. 340 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:49.559 It's explore SCU dot org. Yeah, that's that sounds right. Yeah. 341 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:55.039 Yeah, so um, let's hope UM some really good cases. I 342 00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:59.920 see you can actually report a case UM there as well. And also, 343 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.039 let's talk quickly about UFO Data, because that is another organization you're involved, 344 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.400 and that's got to be what three years old or two years old? Now, 345 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:14.759 uh yeah, UFO Data is three years old. I'm not as actively 346 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:19.599 involved in that organization, but I'm part of the organization. It's a basic 347 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:30.400 mission is to develop a basically an optical system that takes spectra of lights at 348 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:37.839 night so that you can analyze the photo. And the system that's been developed 349 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:41.720 so far actually takes two images. One's an optical image and then the others 350 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:49.119 a spectra. The most difficult part that you know, the UFO Data Group 351 00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:57.039 has run into is basically the software issues that surround when you know, how 352 00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:07.920 a camera recognizes an object right and without being confused by falling leaf for movements 353 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.880 and clouds, insects that go by those kind of things. So that's the 354 00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:17.480 most difficult part of developing the system. Yeah, there's going to be a 355 00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:22.119 lot of algorithm writing to get around all that, right, you know, 356 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:29.160 a lot of a lot of development to get something like that going. So 357 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:37.359 let's talk about the Nimitz case, which is another fascinating case. The first 358 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:40.279 I know, I know people were talking about it before, but the first 359 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:48.400 I heard about it is when Chris Chris Mellon talked about it. But you 360 00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.920 have how long have you been researching that case? In particular? I actually 361 00:31:53.079 --> 00:32:00.839 first found out about this case in July of two thousand and sixteen. It's 362 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:07.200 kind of the interesting story because what I found out about it, it wasn't 363 00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:12.640 the rest of it. It wasn't really out there in the UFO world per 364 00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:16.599 se. I think there had been something that cropped up in around the year 365 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:22.079 two thousand and seven on a website called the Bovetop Secret. Oh yeah, 366 00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:28.400 but that was all that was all there was, and there wasn't much about 367 00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:32.480 the case at that point in time. But in mid twenty sixteen, a 368 00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:39.400 gentleman that I've known for a number of years who is not in the mainstream 369 00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:45.720 ufology world, but I know that he works with the government and he has 370 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:53.480 done work for organizations related to UFOs in the government. Now I was meeting 371 00:32:53.480 --> 00:33:00.359 with him and he was we were talking about the Agradia case, and so 372 00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:04.640 he said, well, I've got an interesting case that you might be want 373 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.359 to hear a little bit about. And he had a folder that was a 374 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:12.960 half inch thick on this case, but he wouldn't he wouldn't let me see 375 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:16.200 the folder, but he told me some things about the case. And then 376 00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:22.680 he said, but by the way, someone who's leaked it to the internet, 377 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.319 so if you want to do a little googling, you won't have any 378 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:30.200 problem finding it. And so that's what I proceeded to do, and I 379 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:39.519 found the magazine article by a former Navy colonel. His name's a Pucko, 380 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:43.359 if I remember, if I can pronounce his last name correct, I think 381 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:47.920 something like chick Kerry or something like that. But probably a number of your 382 00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:52.559 listeners may have seen this website. So I found the website. So what 383 00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:59.000 attracted me to it was it was not a typical UFO website, all right, 384 00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:02.440 This was actually on a navy blog. And so I looked at the 385 00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:07.719 writer's blog other blogs, right, and they're all about navy items. This 386 00:34:07.800 --> 00:34:14.760 is his only right up on a UFO and he's using Navy lingo through the 387 00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:20.760 whole thing. He takes time in the beginning to say, you know, 388 00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:24.079 this is pretty crazy, and so I'm going to start off by telling you 389 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:30.760 how strong the witnesses will are in terms of their credibility. And so he 390 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:36.159 goes through that, and so as soon as I read that, I said, 391 00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:39.679 okay, this is a legitimate case. This is not, you know, 392 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:45.119 just some wild case out there. So I began The first thing I 393 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:47.840 had to do was go look up all the Navy lingo so that I could 394 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:53.519 understand exactly what these guys were saying happen. And so once I did that, 395 00:34:53.920 --> 00:35:00.440 the next step was in late December of two thousands sixteen, I sent 396 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:07.039 out I think about eleven foyas and I think, all totally now, I've 397 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:12.119 sent out thirteen foyas. So I sent them out to every different navy organization 398 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:19.159 to find out information, because it's probably good at this point that tell your 399 00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:28.079 audience kind of what basically happened. So there's a US naval group out about 400 00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.639 seventy miles west of San Diego. It's November of two thousand and four, 401 00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:39.519 and they have been the USS Princeton, which is missile frigate, had one 402 00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:45.119 of the top radar systems of that time, which was called us BY one 403 00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:50.920 radar system, and they've been detecting an object apparently for several days that would 404 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:57.480 be up at eighty thousand feet and then it would be down to fifty feet 405 00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:01.079 two hundred feet above the ocean floor, and so on this particular day, 406 00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:07.280 I'm much sure what motivated them to do this, but the Princeton picks us 407 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:10.320 up these two objects up or one, I'm not sure if it's one or 408 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:16.639 two objects that pick them up on radar, and they call in a marine 409 00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:23.960 at eighteen. It's a colonel, a lieutenant Colonel Kurtz, who also happened 410 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:30.920 to be the commanding officer of that of an entire marine squadron. So they 411 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:38.679 give him the coordinates and he's flying two coordinates before he gets there. The 412 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:45.000 Princeton radios him and tells him to break off because they're sending two Navy super 413 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:52.360 Hornets, which is just you know, a more advanced at eighteen to the 414 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:58.000 target. But since he's in the area, he goes ahead and flies by, 415 00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:04.760 and he never sees the target, but he sees this huge bubbling area 416 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:08.519 in the ocean, which to him, the best explanation is like a ship 417 00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:15.159 that has just sunk, because he says, the water is glassy clear that 418 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:21.840 day except for this one area. So he breaks off and goes from the 419 00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:28.320 area, and then the other two f eighteens who the commander of the group, 420 00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:35.400 which is called the Black aces off of the ussnmits command. The commander's 421 00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:43.280 last name is Freiber. He's headed there with his wing guy and is they 422 00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:47.559 approach, they don't see anything on radar, but once they get close enough 423 00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:52.960 and get to the target, they see the target that the USS Princeton has 424 00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:58.920 vectored them to it. And what they see is basically he describes it as 425 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.480 a tick tack, So it's basically, you know, like those candies, 426 00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:10.360 it's oval type object, and the commander believes that to a tack. He 427 00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:14.880 said, there's no wings there's no method of propulsion. It's just fair in 428 00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:19.440 the sky. And but then it turns its nose towards him, and when 429 00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:23.400 he does that, when it does that, he assumes that that's an aggressive 430 00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:30.239 move, and so one of the F eighteens I think, changes to a 431 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:35.119 different altitude and then his F eighteen engages the object. Now he doesn't have 432 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:39.719 any weaponry on board. He's just I guess, doing his Bandard maneuvers, 433 00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:44.519 which yeah, I'm not familiar with those, not being in the Native, 434 00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:49.760 but my understanding is that's what happens is he's trying to do a maneuver, 435 00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:57.920 so he gets behind the object, and the object actually gets behind him, 436 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.880 and so he's never able to do that. He's, you know, he 437 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:05.960 does various maneuvers, and then finally this object just takes off in leads. 438 00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:12.360 So he and the other F eighteen, you know, they they're not able 439 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.159 to match that speed, so they just head back to the Nimits. As 440 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:21.159 they're heading back to the Nimitz, the USS Princeton calls them and says, 441 00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.960 you'll never guess, but the object is back at its same cap, and 442 00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:32.920 cap just means that's its location where it was first found by the USS Princeton. 443 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:38.039 And so the commander says, well, you know, we're we're low 444 00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:43.199 on fuel. Now we cannot you know, turn back around and go back 445 00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:47.280 there. So they proceed to the Nimits and the Nimitz sends two more F 446 00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:53.800 eighteens to that target. And it's at this point it's not real clear if 447 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:59.800 if it was the first two F eighteens or the second two FF eighteens that 448 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:05.239 apparently took a video of the obig, but I'm pretty sure it was the 449 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:13.199 second pair of faighteens. And and the story of what happens to them, 450 00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:17.880 you know, And we don't have because the guy who wrote the Navy blog 451 00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:23.280 was familiar with this Captain Fravar, I mean not captain, but the commander 452 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:29.320 Fravar and Lieutenant Colonel Kurth, who was the commander of the marine a marine 453 00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:35.719 squadron. So what his story basically is the story from those two officers, 454 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.679 and we don't have the story of whoever, you know, the two F 455 00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:45.800 eighteens that went out later. Now when this when they flew over and they 456 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:52.599 saw the bubbling in the water, were they assuming that the thing went underwater? 457 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:59.159 And I heard you say early on that it was down to one hundred 458 00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.119 feet above the ocean floor, so that means they were actually tracking it under 459 00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:07.280 water. Oh no, okay, I'm sorry, one hundred feet about the 460 00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.880 ocean surface. A surface, okay, uh, just about the ocean surface. 461 00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:16.960 Now. The UM in the article that's written the marine Cornel doesn't draw 462 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:22.400 any conclusions as to whether something you know, that this was the object he 463 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:27.840 was going to find or anything. His only conclusion was the ocean water was 464 00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:32.639 crystal clear, you know, much more calm than normal, except in this 465 00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:37.760 area where it looked like an object the size of a ship had just sunned. 466 00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:44.199 Yeah, because of turbulence in that area. But he did not know 467 00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:50.400 what caused it, or he didn't see anything that caused that. That's he 468 00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:57.920 only saw the water turbinos. So do you think at this point that this 469 00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:00.599 UM? I know you did yours and we can talk more about that. 470 00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:07.800 But at this point is this case classified as far as you know what you 471 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:13.280 mean, classified by the military. Yes, so far, and all of 472 00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:19.239 my foyas that have been denied. The Navy has never said that this information 473 00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:23.039 is classified, and that's why we can't send it to what they've said every 474 00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:30.000 time was that they just don't have the logs. And so basically what they've 475 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:37.239 said is five different naval assets, right the USS limits, the USS Princeton, 476 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:46.840 the Navy squadron, the Marine F eighteen, and there was also what's 477 00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:53.239 called an E two Hawkeye, which is an airborne early warning aircraft that was 478 00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:58.920 in the area that also picked up the object on their radar. All five 479 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:04.519 of those navy asks, when I sent foys, every time, the response 480 00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:08.760 came back was that we have no information, we don't have those logs, 481 00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:15.519 we don't have anything. So they never used they never claimed classication or top 482 00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:23.800 secret. However, when I asked for the decklogs of the USS Princeton, 483 00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:30.440 I received that same reply that we don't have any decklogs, and a foy 484 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.559 officer, because you know, these foy officers that you send these requests to, 485 00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.039 they're not really in the business. They're trying to hide information from you. 486 00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:44.880 They're just you know, they're doing their clerical job. And this this 487 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:52.480 FOY officer did say this to me. He said, that's very unusual that 488 00:43:52.840 --> 00:44:01.440 they can't give you the decklogs. And he said it it's so unlikely that 489 00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:08.320 they've lost the decklogs that it's more likely that they have classified it and it's 490 00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:13.360 classified high enough that he you know, he's not even aware of the classification. 491 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:16.960 So he's so basically he's saying, if it's classified like top secret for 492 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:22.000 example, he's never as a FOY officer, he's never going to know that. 493 00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:27.039 All he's just going to hear is we don't have those logs. I 494 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:32.599 thought that was uh, I thought that was kind of against the Freedom of 495 00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:37.360 Information Act. But maybe I just don't know enough about that. I thought 496 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:45.559 that, um so once hit something hits classified, that it's just pulled out 497 00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:50.840 of the loop and you have to wait until after that changes, say you 498 00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:54.000 know, twenty five years later or fifty years later or something. Right, 499 00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:58.639 Yeah, if it's classified or if it's secret, of it's top secret, 500 00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:02.840 they don't have to give you that information. In other words, they don't 501 00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:10.800 even have to acknowledge that it exists at all. I'm not sure if they 502 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.440 have to acknowledge it exists at all, but I know it is a practice 503 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:20.719 to just say it doesn't exist, does not exist, even though it does. 504 00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:23.519 Because I've done enough for you, is I just see that happen? 505 00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:31.519 Now? Sometimes what I think happens also, Martin is it's a lot of 506 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:37.519 work for them to go find this information right, and in some cases they 507 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:40.320 just say, hey, you know, I don't want to be messed with 508 00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:46.440 that we don't have the data, or I've heard I've heard replies that we 509 00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:54.880 can't find it right, which sounds even more suspicious. That's actually what my 510 00:45:54.960 --> 00:46:02.039 appeal was. So for example, when I appealed one of the foils, 511 00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:09.079 the first appeal was just turned down. They just said, nope, we 512 00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:14.719 agree, because you really are appealing to the Navy, just to a higher 513 00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:21.960 up. You're appealing to JAG, which is the Navy's basically they're legal arm 514 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:27.599 and so they just said, nope, we agree that they they've done a 515 00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.480 reasonable search and that's all they have to do is a reasonable search. And 516 00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:35.880 so then they give you the legal cases that support, you know, what 517 00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:42.360 defines the reasonable search. So then I sent back a second appeal on another 518 00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:46.159 one of the foyers, and I noticed on the email it was the same 519 00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:52.440 JAG officers that we're going to evaluate that one. So I sent them an 520 00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:59.480 additional email where a basic class said, I understand your first argument, and 521 00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:02.199 there's some validity to that I said, However, in this case, what 522 00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:10.039 I'm arguing is, you've got five different navy assets, right, and you're 523 00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:15.719 going to tell me that it's reasonable that you can't find documents on any of 524 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:21.559 five navy assets that we're in a navy exercise on that day. And so 525 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:24.840 this time, after I sent that to them, they said, well, 526 00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:29.320 we'll take that into consideration. So I think they said, Okay, we 527 00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:35.239 got to throw this guy a bone. So they sent me back a partial 528 00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:40.079 This time, they give me partial acceptance on my appeal, and they sent 529 00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:45.960 me some emails back. And I was really surprised that these guys sent me 530 00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:53.480 these emails. This email the first one, and I opened up and I'm 531 00:47:53.519 --> 00:48:00.519 looking in. It's from a lieutenant colonel and they have seen the jag officers 532 00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:07.159 have asked him, have you ever heard this case? Blah blah blah. 533 00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:15.239 Right, his response is, um, oh, the tic TACs. Yeah, 534 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:20.440 we know all about the tic TACs. And I'm just like wow, 535 00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:25.440 So okay, so now they're admitting that this happened and it's just a question 536 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:35.440 of finding the logs, and um, another lieutenant colonel, Uh, this 537 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:37.440 guy was my second guy. He was was on Lieutenant Carl he was a 538 00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:43.320 major, and he said, uh, well, we don't have these documents 539 00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:49.239 because they're you know, they're over ten years old, and so they would 540 00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:53.239 be in the archives. And so then he then he writes in his email, 541 00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:58.960 I'm sure you can find a point of contact that could find the documents 542 00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:05.280 in the archives from mister Powell. And so of course I've sent sent them 543 00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:10.000 another appeal that I want them to go search the archives because they think all 544 00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:15.639 they did initially is they just asked the squadrons, had you have these documents 545 00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:17.760 from the year two thousand and four. Well, now they don't have documents, 546 00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.480 squadrons, I can keep documents that old. So they never really went 547 00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:29.119 and looked in the archives. So that that appeal is still out outstanding. 548 00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:34.960 It's been it's almost two months old now, hum, and I know, 549 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:39.840 go ahead, Mark no doubt that this happened. Um, you know the 550 00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:51.599 event happened. My understanding is that there was a Navy Inspector General actually investigated 551 00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.639 the case. But I can't prove that that's that's all. You're safe from 552 00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:59.679 what I've heard some far. So now I played up on YouTube. I 553 00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:05.519 played the video that it shows online is that an authentic video? Do you 554 00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:13.079 know anything about that? Okay, something familiar with the video. It's we 555 00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:17.480 don't know for certain that that is the video that was taken by the FA 556 00:50:17.559 --> 00:50:23.320 teens. What we did know is that the FA teams did take video because 557 00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:31.239 in my FOYA reply that's noted in the Lieutenant Colonels email, he said, 558 00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:37.719 we a lot of us saw the video. So apparently these guys got the 559 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:43.400 video and they were playing it among the other various officers on board the ship, 560 00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:50.679 So we know video exists. What I don't know for certain is the 561 00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:54.480 video that was released on the internet. And that video was actually released in 562 00:50:54.599 --> 00:51:01.519 two thousand and seven on the Internet, and so various people made arguments about, 563 00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:08.360 oh, maybe it's a fake video because it was released on a German 564 00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:15.800 video, a German media video type site, you know that makes movies and 565 00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:24.119 things. So whether or not that is the video, I can't say for 566 00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:30.639 certain. I actually suspect it is a copy of the original video. And 567 00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:36.679 the reason I say that is the altitude that's shown on the video of twenty 568 00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:43.440 thousand feet is the same altitude approximately that the commanding officer of the f A 569 00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:49.280 team said they were at when they encountered the what he called the tic TACs. 570 00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.519 So I suspect it is, you know, but we don't know for 571 00:51:53.679 --> 00:52:00.400 certain. And to me, what's the most important important part about this case 572 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:06.679 is not whether that video is the you know, is the real video or 573 00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:10.320 not. To me, the important part of the case is that we've got 574 00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:16.760 testimony from Navy and Marine officers that this event happened, and those that eighteens 575 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:22.039 were sent off of the nimits to intercept this object and they and the lead 576 00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:30.920 at eighteen who was the commanding officer, engaged the object with his aircraft. 577 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:37.519 So you know, to me that that eliminates just about everything. And my 578 00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:42.119 view is I just want to know, you know, why can't the Navy 579 00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:49.840 just tell us what they know. I don't understand their need to hide that 580 00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:55.559 information. Yeah, it's probably up above them. Who knows. Um, 581 00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:02.000 So, did you actually speak to the witnesses or was there you know, 582 00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:08.840 was a communication through email or or how what happened? And that when it 583 00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:15.159 comes to the witnesses. Okay, so the witnesses, I have not been 584 00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:22.320 in communication with any of the witnesses. I do know an individual who contacted 585 00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:29.159 me and actually made communication with Lieutenant Colonel Kurth and remember he was the marine 586 00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:36.360 who was in the first F eighteen that all he saw was the water disturbance. 587 00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:43.159 Well, so he called Lieutenant Colonel kurt and he said that it was 588 00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:50.519 very polite conversation. He said, the gentleman spoke very slowly, very distinctly, 589 00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:57.280 and you know, he was very confident in everything he said. And 590 00:53:57.360 --> 00:54:04.280 he said that this is interesting. The first thing he found out was that 591 00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:10.000 Lieutenant Colonel Kurve actually worked for Bigelow after he left the service. And of 592 00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:16.639 course we all know Bigelow's UFOs right now. Whether or not that's coincidence or 593 00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:22.039 part of the reason he was initially hired, you know, there's no way 594 00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:29.960 to know. But in his conversation, the lieutenant colonel did say that he 595 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:36.559 could not comment any further on the case because of his prior job agreement, 596 00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:43.719 you know, with Bigelow Industries. So I thought that was interesting. That 597 00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.079 is so, what is what is the protocol for like to say, you're 598 00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:53.760 investigating this case and you see the person's name that wrote that blog, and 599 00:54:54.079 --> 00:55:00.400 you are actually able to get a connection to contact that person, and what 600 00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:06.480 is a protocol for doing something like that. Well, I'm myself, I'm 601 00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:10.719 you know, somewhat leary on that, right, because I just hate intruding 602 00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:16.360 on someone's private life. You know, the guy who contacted the colonel, 603 00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:22.440 Lieutenant Colonel Kurth, I guess it was not as you know, it wasn't 604 00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:29.280 as big an issue for him. Um. And most of these guys, 605 00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:36.039 like, for example, the the commanding officer of the F eighteen that engaged 606 00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:43.559 it, who was Lieutenant I was Commander David Freibour of the Black Aces, 607 00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:52.239 which is Nameth, his super Hornic group. I've I was able to determine 608 00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:55.719 where he lived, and he had just just moved within I think a month 609 00:55:55.880 --> 00:56:02.519 when I determined it, and so I spent him him a registered letter, 610 00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:07.800 certified letter so they would come back, um, you know, if he 611 00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:13.159 would if he you know, if if if it picked up where he had 612 00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:17.199 moved to, if he'd done a change of address or whatever. And you 613 00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:21.760 know, I never received a letter back or a reply. And you know, 614 00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.440 I just send a real nice, polite letter. A lot of these 615 00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:28.320 guys after they get out of the military, they work in the defense industry. 616 00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:34.960 And you know, the UFO topic is when I say it's it's like 617 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:42.360 the great I love, um you know the quote, it's the Great Taboo. 618 00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:45.239 It's it's it's not like, you know, I don't think it's like 619 00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:49.840 someone said, Okay, you can't you know, don't ever talk about UFOs. 620 00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:53.360 But it's like if you're in that industry and you do talk about it, 621 00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:57.960 it's almost like you you're talking about a ghost, right, Like it's 622 00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:00.480 almost like I saw a ghost this morning. Yeah, I walked right across 623 00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:04.679 my living room, and you get the same kind of reaction. It's about. 624 00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:08.199 I think it's interesting that Bob Bigelow, for one, it's not too 625 00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:13.599 afraid to talk about it. No, No, he's not. Of course, 626 00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:15.599 I guess he has He's the guy that does the hiring, right, 627 00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:20.360 so yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't have to have any fear about his 628 00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:28.280 job. But um, I think most other you know, other guys do 629 00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:31.519 have concerns about talking about it. That's a lot of the reason why a 630 00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:37.519 lot of the times military guys that talk about it, they've they've been retired 631 00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:44.920 and they're in their seventies or eighties. M right, No one's going to 632 00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:51.199 really bother them at this point. So, um, it's after UM, 633 00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:54.199 it's after the hour, and I'm going to put out there that if anyone 634 00:57:54.239 --> 00:58:00.599 wants to call in and ask our guests some questions and you're alive and watching 635 00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:06.039 on YouTube, Um, you'll see the number underneath in the description. It's 636 00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:10.920 six h three nine six seven four h three zero if you'd like to call 637 00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:16.000 in and ask our guests a question. UM, So where do you think 638 00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:21.280 this particular case, Um, where do you think it's going to go? 639 00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:27.800 Do you think some more more people will be engaged eventually in talking about the 640 00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:32.239 incident? Yeah, I think I think there will be more information that comes 641 00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:37.719 out on the case. I was talking to Chris Mellen, and you know 642 00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:44.599 Chris is part of the Belongs to the Stars group. Yeah, and I've 643 00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:49.239 known Chris, I guess probably four years. I have not met him in 644 00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:57.320 person, but he's a what I consider a fairly conservative person in terms of 645 00:58:57.320 --> 00:59:01.559 his views on the UFO for dominance. So he's pretty down to earth on 646 00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:09.079 it. And he indicated to me that, you know, they would have 647 00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:16.679 more they have more information on this particular case. So it would be interesting 648 00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:22.360 to see if he has some, you know, some additional information. Now 649 00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:24.960 he was in office when this was happening. But you know, I know 650 00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:30.760 how compartmentalized everything is. I'm sure he probably never knew anything about it. 651 00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:37.280 Actually he told me he had heard about it. Really wow. Uh yeah, 652 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:45.119 and you know he was he was confident that it had occurred. He 653 00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:47.760 didn't know that at that time when I talked to him about this. I 654 00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:53.159 first talked to him about the case. And well, not too long after 655 00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:58.920 I found out in mid twenty sixteen, and he was confident. At that 656 00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:01.960 point this is long be four you know, to the Stars group had been 657 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:07.480 formed, right, And at that point in time, he was confident that 658 01:00:07.639 --> 01:00:10.599 this had happened, and he was aware of the four years I was going 659 01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:15.199 to be sending out and you know, he was supported. He was supported 660 01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:22.800 of all that. But now he clearly has gotten some more information within the 661 01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:25.719 last six months. All right, everyone, So that's it for the three 662 01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:30.840 part of the show. Thanks so much for listening. Remember, if you 663 01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:34.679 can't help us out, support us for two dollars or more a month. 664 01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:38.559 You can always listen to us on the Dark Matter Digital Network and that's ten 665 01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:45.639 to midnight, that's Eastern Standard time, so YouTube. You can also watch 666 01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:50.199 the full shows there and to support us for only two dollars or more a 667 01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:53.519 month. Go to podcastufo dot com all that informations. There you can listen 668 01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:59.639 to full shows and archives. And next week we have Peter Davenport coming up, 669 01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:04.159 always a fun guest, so thanks again and remember to keep your eyes 670 01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:16.400 to the sky.