You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.
I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now
trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other
victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway
murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Kristin Dilley. My name is Kristin Dilley. I'm a writer, a researcher,
a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media
manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in
crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind of a Murder. I'm Kristin Dilley
and I'm Bill Thomas, and we're joined today by podcaster Jennifer Amel and badass
survivor Jane Barowski here to talk to us about the Dark Valley podcast. Jane
and Jen, welcome to the podcast. I thank you glad to be here.
Hey, yeah, pleasure to be here. Thanks for having us.
So, before we get into the new podcast, Dark Valley, go ahead
and start by telling us a little bit about yourselves. Jen, I'll start
with you, and then Jane jump on and tell us a little bit about
yourselves professionally, educationally, that sort of thing. Cool. Yeah, I
am a college dropout, but I do have a background in journalism and documentary
filmmaking which led me here to podcasting. Excellent, Jane, how about you.
I'm a mom, a wife, a grandma and do some podcasting on
the side. And I'm an advocate. I want to get that out there.
I am a victim advocate too. Talk to us a little bit about
Dark Valley. What is this podcast about primarily? And how did you get
the idea? How did the two of you meet and start this podcast partnership?
Jane, do you want me to take the elevator pitch please? Dark
Valley is a new investigative series from my company, Crawlspace Media and our partners
at Glassbox Media, and it is about the unsolved cases of the Connecticut River
Valley killer up in New England. We're investigating eight murders and one attack.
There's one survivor of the serial killer and she's speaking with us right now.
And so, Jane, how did you and Jen originally meet. What's the
connection that created this new partnership? Jen and Cross Space Media contacted me and
they wanted to start this project with Dark Valley. It was a coincidence because
at the same time, I was just getting ready to create Invisible Tiers,
my own podcast. We ended up meeting up and I was really interested in
wish you want to to go with the Dark Valley and why she wanted to
do it. We just got together and started talking and here we are.
And so were your initial meetings face to face or over the web like we're
doing now. We initially I initially called you, right Jane after a brief
message on Facebook, and I had heard Jane's story and I was like,
there's no way she's going to respond to me. There's no way. And
then she was like, Okay, I'll hear you out. Let's have a
phone call. The timing was serendipitous, as you touched on, Jane,
Yeah, it's been almost three years that we've been in production. Yeah.
Crazy. And then Jenn, timidly it's Crowdspace, came to our hometown and
we did some videotaping and some audio and just went from there. But I
think the project wasn't exactly what Jenna had pictured at first, and we went
a different direction and it was a great meeting. I had been approached by
some other people about doing my story and interest in different things about my story,
and I hadn't always had the best relationship with these people. I felt
like they all had an agenda. When I met Jenna and Carldspace, it
was I felt like they were the perfect people to do this story, to
do Dark Valley and the Connecticut River Valley cases, talk about them and talk
about the victims, and they were just a perfect fit for it. We
just we have hit it off since it's been awesome. It's been a great
ride. It's been very interesting. I did warn her right off the bat,
but she was like, I want to find answers for you and the
families, and I said, you're gonna have By the end, you're gonna
have more questions and answers. I guarantee it. And it's pretty much has
happened. Before we get too terribly much further in talking about the big issues,
let's actually have the two of you walk us through the basics of the
Connecticut River Valley case. Jenna, I'll start with you and then you and
Jane can bounce it back and forth. Tell us a little bit about the
Connecticut River Valley Killer. Oh geez. I want to preface by saying I
think Jane and I were aligned in our mission and our values in telling these
stories because we didn't want to put so much focus on who this man was
who killed these women, and really wanted to approach it inversely the other way
around, by learning more about the other women who were murdered. And of
course I was interested in Jane's life and what happened to her after her attack,
Like she lived thirty six years after this, what's that story too.
That said, we have been able to glean a couple things about who this
killer is. The cases are a little confusing because we don't know if all
of them are actually connected. There's no piece of DNA that links each case
or anything. We do look at certain patterns that develop in each case.
I think the Valley Killer is marked by a m They were all stabbing victims.
All the women were probably victims of opportunity out in the world, hitchhiking,
talking on payphones, that sort of thing, abducted, taken elsewhere,
and stabbed in a v shape pattern. That's their upper chest and abdomen.
Usually the ones that we can tell their throats were cut as well. Jane,
do you want to talk about Does any of that match up with your
case? Oh? Yeah, exactly. I was stabbed multiple times. When
he approached me, he wanted me to go with him, so I was
very adamant that I wouldn't go with him, thank God, because I probably
wouldn't be here speaking with you people today. But he stabbed me multiple times,
mostly a lot in the chest, and left me for dead. I
was a victim of opportunity. It was at night. I was in a
parking lot at a closed store getting a zoda out of a soda machine.
There was also a payphone there, and there was a couple of the other
girls that there was a phone where they were at too. The similarities,
there's several similarities to all the cases, including my own. It's probably worth
mentioning at this point that the core cases that we believe may be part of
the Connecticut River Valley killings stretched from about nineteen seventy eight to nineteen eighty eight,
and it's probably worth mentioning, especially for our younger listeners. We're talking
about a situation where there are no cell phones. If you want to make
a phone call, you're either at home, at work, or you're using
a payphone. Those are the options. For instance, my son Chris,
who's twenty five now, I'm not sure that he, as a young man,
has ever even used a payphone. I think he's seen one, but
I'm not sure that for our younger listeners, they quite get the fact that
if you wanted to reach someone, it was home, work, or a
payphone, or maybe a friend's house. The evening that you stopped on the
way home from a fair. As I recall Jane, you're at a place
where the convenience store is closed, but you know that there's a vending machine
there and you can grab a cold drink. And that's also a place where
there's a payphone. So someone pulling in even to a closed store is not
that unusual because of the payphone location. Correct, Oh, exactly. And
this was a very small town and in the eighties it had virtually no major
crime there, so it was a safe community. And don't forget because there
was no social media either. I was unaware of the other cases in the
Hampshire. I had no reason to even be any sort of terrified to stop
or nervous to stop or hesitant. I felt safe. It was a safe
community. I had no reason not to feel safe. So when did you
find out that your attack was potentially a part of a much larger series of
killings? When did you find that out? Yeah, that's interesting. After
my attack, when I was in the hospital, I was all over the
news my attack. News stations were all in front of the hospital. I
was in all the newspapers, and my feeling protected me from all that.
I really didn't know exactly what was going on outside the hospital. And then
one day I had mentioned my mother something about the news outside the hospital,
and she was like, oh, you're all over the news. You're all
over the newspapers. She gave me a newspaper and I started reading it,
and there's all the other victims names in the newspaper, and then they like,
this may be another victim of the Connecticut River Valley serial killer. So
that was like crazy reading it in the paper. I'm like, oh my
god, okay, one, I'm all over the news my name. So
if he wants, he knows that I'm alive, he knows that I survived
too. If he wants to fy me, he knows what my name is.
And three, I'm the only survivor and I can identify him. It
was just layer over a layer of really information that I was reading that was
just horrifying to me. On top of everything else. You're also an expectant
mother. Had you had your daughter by the time you got out of the
hospital. I had not. I still carried her for another two months after
my attack, so I went full term with her. Yeah, back then.
The difference between now and that's so different because, like then, they
put all the victims names all over the news and in the newspaper. Today
they don't do that. Thank god. I'm so thankful that they don't do
that for safety of victims today. The only time that there's really a victim's
name is when somebody has been charged or the person that did the harm is
no longer there. It's nice to see that they don't do that anymore.
It's layered protection for victims that survive even now. In sexual assault cases,
sometimes the victim's name is not given as it moves through the courts. The
suspect is identified, but the victim sometimes is not. She may be given
a pseudonym or just referred to by a number or something else. We're more
sensitive, I think, to victim's rights and respecting individuals privacy than we might
have been back then. Exactly, Jen, as a journalist, what is
your main goal for Dark Valley? Clearly it's to get out the story of
the Connecticut River Valley killings and the victims. But what other goals do you
have in mind? What do you hope will ultimately come of this podcast?
Thank you, Yeah, great question. As we touched on before, the
primary goal with this is a resurrection story. We want to know these women's
lives as much as their deaths. We want to know what Jane's life is
like. But of course the great hope with any kind of in depth investigative
project is to move the needle in these cases. We want law enforcement to
listen. We want them to reopen investigations. We want them to contact Jane
Buraski and have a conversation with her, and we hope to elicit tips too.
The public has power absolutely. What level of cooperation have you gotten from
law enforcement? There's at least two states that are part of this. These
cases took place in New Hampshire and in Vermont. What kind of cooperation,
if any, do you get from law enforcement in terms of production or in
terms of Jane's personal relationship with law enforcement. I would say both, nothing
in either. Wow. I don't think we're surprised, but wow. Back
in the eighties, after a few of the bodies were found, they did
form a task force between the Hampshire and Vermont and that went on for I
don't know what, was it, a couple of years, Jen, Yeah,
something like that, and then the cases went cold. And when I
say they went cold, they went ice cold. They stopped communicating with me.
I even think that the Hampshire and Vermont stopped communicating with each other.
People still they still come with information, new tips. Everybody wants to solve
everything. Now true crime is huge, and when somebody hears a story,
they want to solve it. And I've had people literally come and knock on
my door several It still happens. I just had some last year. It
still happens. They come and knock on my door and say, I have
credible information. I've given it to the authorities, and then I don't feel
like they're doing anything with it. I want to give you the information I
can't do anything with this information. There's nothing that I can do with it.
You have to try to communicate with the authorities that being conquered and they
just don't get any responses. And I call up and I don't get any
responses. Jen, how hard was it for me to even find out where
my case file was? Who's investigating my case? We still don't technically know
who the lead is on Jane's case. There's a little bit of confusing backstory
to that, but yeah, the long and short of it is that New
Hampshire is a bit different than other states. The Attorney General will usually take
the investigative lead on major crimes, including homicide, including attempted murder in Jane's
case, So I started by reaching out to the ag of New Hampshire.
It's like, basic information, what's the status of these cases? Can you
comment at all? Like really softball sort of things. And I did speak
to the former Associated Term General and he said that Jane's case was not his,
it was not under the purview of the Attorney General. And I was
like, what since when. He didn't really elaborate on what had happened in
that process, but he directed me to the municipal police where Jane's attack occurred,
as well as the District Attorney of Cheshire County. Both those agencies did
not have Jane's case. And then during the same time during the winter,
like this past winter, Jane, You've got in contact with a detective with
the New Hampshire State Police who said that he had a personal interest in your
case. But then when prest said he wasn't the lead either and that it
was under the purview of the Attorney General. So we still don't really This
all sounds very circular, So you're back to thinking it's the Age. Will
they not respond at all to inquiries? Well, they did initially. I
think at this point I'm not getting any further with any comments from the Age
or the State Police. Jane probably will have more luck in the future,
hopefully or another journalist perchance. New Hampshire is like notorious for playing their cards
pretty close to the best. The party line is don't speak to the media,
and I hope that changes in the future. We find in the Colonial
Parkway murders, my sister's unsolved murder, Kathy and her girlfriend Rebecca Dowski are
the first two victims in the Colonial Parkway murders. Half of those cases are
FBI cases and half of them are Virginia State Police cases. Just due to
jurisdictional issues, they're not good about sharing information. They refuse to speak to
the media. We've had dozens, if not hundreds of inquiries, and for
the most part, all they'll say is the same thing. I could pretty
much write word for word what they're going to say. It's an open case.
We continue to investigate. When we have something to say, we'll have
something to say. It's the same old and even them getting back to the
families is often incredibly difficult. I've certainly called them out on this. They
returned my calls now, but I had to insist, even in impolite ways,
that my phone calls would be returned because I said, I'm going to
call you guys out publicly. In Kathy's case, Kathy and Becky are handled
by the FBI, so I deal with the FBI, which is a challenge
in and of itself. I had hoped that you were getting a little bit
more cooperation from the New Hampshire State Police. Jane. You don't even know
if they're considering your case an open case. Oh god, I can tell
there's a story. I mean, with Jen's help, I submitted paperwork to
get access to my case file. And if that's when all of a sudden,
out of the blue, I had talked to this state police tripper and
as long as I talked to him for two seconds, and he tells me
that he's investigating my case, it's considered an open case, and therefore I
don't have access to my files, my case files, and that's all they
have to do. Jennet emailed him and he was supposed to email me back,
and we were supposed to meet up back in November December somewhere around there,
and I haven't heard back from him. Jen had received an email from
him, and he did put a little snippet in there. I oh,
Jane, a phone call. I'm so waiting for that phone call. And
here it is six months later. Yeah, I'll give you another example.
They called me about three years ago. Instead, we lifted prints off your
car, fingerprints. We would like you to come back in to get refingerprinted.
We think we have a set that is unidentified by anybody else that had
been fingerprinted. And I see, tell me when and where? The state
troopers said I'll call you in about a week or two, we'll schedule something
and then we'll have you come in. That was three years ago and I
still haven't heard back from him. So now I think, I don't want
to say they play their little games, but they know that if they contact
us for any little information or give any inclination that they're investigating, then it's
no longer a cold case. It's an open case. And they can't provide
me with my case files or any case files. So it's it's really frustrating.
I just feel like I get that runaround all the time with it.
I really have not had any besides back in November October November, I really
have not had any single conversation with any of them in probably twenty years now.
My case was in the Cold Case Unit. It was on their Cold
Case Unit website, but I go now, you go on there and I'm
removed with no explanation, So this, okay, why am I no longer
on this coldcase website? And I never could get an answer to that,
So I don't know. It definitely does. It does feel like that's a
game that law enforcement plays that Okay, you're not doing anything on the case.
So it's cold, right. Oh, no, it's still open.
But that's got to be so frustrating. I'm so sorry that's something you have
to deal with. I'm not alone. I'm not alone, but we're hoping
to change that. I'm assuming you don't get that changed a little, or
at least let the public know that this is going on there. This is
happening to victims and victims families, and it's wrong and that needs to change.
I'm assuming you don't still have your classic Pontiac Firebird. Oh I don't.
I had it. I did own it for probably four or five years
after my attack. I loved that car. But no, we ended up,
she died. I had to get rid of it. Plus I was
having my second child, so it was not the most convenient car with car
seats. No, it's not really set up. You're listening to Mind over
Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors, We're back
here at Mind over Murder. Jen, there are eight victims that have been
identified in the Connecticut River Valley case. Do you think in all of the
investigative work that you guys have done, do you think that there may be
more victims? Is that something that you're actively looking into, and is that
something you're going to be soliciting the public for in terms of tips and information.
Oh yeah, absolutely. We knew starting this project that there are probably
more than eight women, maybe a man or two potentially that I've been connected
or at least we're like in the same area. We are looking at a
couple in Maine, one in Massachusetts. And this has come to my attention
through work with one of the original criminal profilers on these cases. Name is
doctor John Philpin, who Jane has a lovely relationship with as well. This
is like his bottom drawer case. He's an older guy. He lives in
Vermont, in the woods somewhere, and he's been steadily building other cases that
he thinks are connected. So via that avenue, he's given me names and
I've looked into them. So I think if we get greenlit for a second
season, we're going to explore those in depth. Did doctor Philpon work on
this case for one of the agencies back in the day, He did.
Yeah, he was hired by Vermont, I believe, but during the time
of the task force between New Hampshire and Vermont, so he came on pretty
early on in that task force. And then Jane, do you want to
talk about what he did for you? Yeah, I met him very shortly
after my attack the State Police in NY. I'm sure he brought me up
to his office to be hypnotized to a hypnosisssion, to try to see if
I could get any more information about him, a better description and a license
plate number. So yeah, I met with him, and wonderful man,
very intriguing and throughout the years we've reconnected quite a few times. I can
call him anytime I need and he's always there. We have a very special
relationship. He sounds amazing. So now this is a bright spot. We've
been talking for several minutes about the frustration that you've found and now Jen,
I think shares this getting so little traction with the new Hampshire State Police and
their lack of follow up. But then doctor Phillman, although not necessarily actively
working the case for a police agency at this moment, is someone who's knowledgeable
about your case, who actually is happy to hear from you. Yes,
but the Hapshire, I'm not sure about Vermont, but over the years and
the Hampshire is pretty much shut him out too. He has offered to give
some more information. He's offered to share some old files that he's had.
He's offered so much, and Dave shut him out. He's as far as
they're concerned, he's retired, so he shouldn't have anything to do with it
anymore. There's so much knowledge there that they're just throwing away. It's so
sad, so sad, because John was very involved with all the cases.
He did a lot of investigative work. And he doesn't like the word criminal
profiler, but he was an amazing criminal profiler and he profiled. He went
and profiled all these victims in the all the cases, and he has an
enormous amount of information. You would think over the years and new eyes and
new people coming into the law enforcement, you would think they would want to
talk to him and see what his opinions are and see where he thinks that
they should go with the case. New people have come in year after year,
and like Lynda Moore's case, right off the bat, they thought it
was her husband, Steve. Now, Steve has cleared himself so many times,
rock solid alibi. He is over the years, past three polygraph tests,
he has just cleared himself so many times, and doctor John Philbin's they
just keep coming back to him and reinvestigating him in such a waste of resource.
In time, as I was doing some initial research about the case in
preparation for our episode today, one name which is familiar to both Bill and
I because it has come up in our cases as well, kept popping out.
Jen, Can you talk about the Michael Nicolau of it all for a
couple of minutes? Are you how much time are you spending with him on
the podcast? And also can you explain to anybody who isn't aware who is
Michael Nikolau and why does he keep coming up over and over again this investigation.
Yes, I'm happy to address the Michael Nikolau question. So, this
was a suspect that was floated a little over a decade ago to Jane by
this private investigator down in Florida. Her name is Lynne Marie Carty, and
she had convinced herself that it was Michael Nicolou who was the Connecticut River Valley
killer who attacked Jane, and she had been hired in the past, I
want to say it was in the nineties, like early nineties. She had
been hired by Michael Nicolau's first wife, Michelle Nicolou, because she disappeared at
a Massachusetts He took off with their two kids down to Florida, and then
the PI Lynne Marie Carty was hired to try and track down Michelle and her
kids. She ended up finding Michael Nicolou spoke to him on the phone,
according to her, and he said that he didn't know what happened to his
wife. She ran off that sort of thing. Fast forward a couple of
years later, Michael nicolol Is remarried to another woman down in Florida. He
shows up to her house on New yor Z Eve with a guitar case full
of guns and kills his second wife, his stepdaughter, and himself. And
after this happened, len Marie Cardio was like, what other murders can I
connect him to? And that's what led her to google murders in New England
and that's how all she came across Jane's story and then she got in contact
with you, Jane. He sure did, And how did that go,
Jane? Or is this something we need to listen to the podcast for?
I trusted her at first, she was probably she had so much information,
enormous amount of information, more than anybody else I had ever talked to.
And at that time, my case had gone really cold. I wasn't getting
any responses or calls from the authorities. And she just came in and she
I was she had a lot of credible sounding information. But and this was
the first time I've really heard some real good, credible information, so I
thought, And so it just sucked me in. And she this was not
even days, weeks or months, this was a few years. Over the
course of a few years. She really convinced me that, oh, can't
be anybody else but Michael mclaugh can't be nobody else fits. This is the
only person it could be. And she just kinda made him fit into every
single little scenario. And I was hopeful. I wanted answers, and so
I went along for the ride. Wearer then I started questioning things, some
of the things that she was coming up with, and then I was noticing
that she was very much about media. And then it was like the media
just got more and more, and then I saw an agenda in her because
then she was talking about a lifetime movie, she was talking about a book.
But these lifetime movies in this book was not gonna be generating me any
kind of I wasn't gonna see anything out of it. These were her projects.
I started questioning a lot of stuff and started really standing back and looking
at everything as a whole with an open mind. And as soon as I
started questioning her about certain things, she got defensive, and she got really
angry, and we ended up partying ways. It's unfortunate that Michael Nikolaus's name
is out there so much. I hate it. You know. She had
me in a very vulnerable spot, and it was feeding me all this stuff.
If you don't say it's Michael Nikolau, nobody's gonna take you seriously.
All the information is here, Jane, it's him, trust me. But
if you don't say that it's him, nobody's going to take you seriously.
So she convinced me, over the course of a few years, to say,
Okay, maybe you know it was Michael Nikolau. I did that reluctantly.
It wasn't like I immediately thought it was him, but she convinced me,
and it's something that I regret, but I have since move forward.
I've explained myself about the whole situation. I still have people say, we
thought this was solved, we thought it was Michael Nikolau, which is so
frustrating because these cases are still unsolved. My case is still unsolved. Even
the information given to the authorities and stuff. It wasn't Michael Nicolau. It
really wasn't. There's nothing forensically, there's nothing, nor prince, no DNA,
nothing to connect him to these cases. Absolutely nothing. It's just her
hearsay, and you know how that goes per se isn't always it always it's
not true. So I hope that I explained it so so you can understand
the best I could. In the odd not so coincidental department. Lynn Marie
Carty attempted to do the same thing in the Colonial Parkway murders in about twenty
ten. She's a very good researcher, and she does find interesting perhaps intersections
of Michael Nikolau, putting him at or near places where unsolved Thomas sides had
taken place. That part gets very intriguing. Where it begins to fall apart
is she's one of these people who is very selective about the information she puts
forward. If some thing comes out that is not consistent with her theory that
oh, Michael Nikolai was responsible for your sister Kathy Thomas's death, Rebekkadowski's death,
and the other murders in the Colonial Parkway murders. If something comes up
that doesn't fit, she finds a way to put that aside, and she
only focuses on the things that are consistent with her theory. And of course
I'm not an investigator, but we have worked with some incredible investigators, profilers,
criminologists, and so on. They have said, that's exactly what you
cannot do. You want to take all of the information, good, bad
and indifferent, consistent with your theory or things that might break down your theory,
because that's the only way you're going to figure out should this person remain
on the short list of suspects that we regard as very viable or should they
be put on the less viable list We continue to move on if you're able
to eliminate people that actually has value as well. So if Nikolaus not the
right offender, then you know you're still looking exactly what line Marie does is
it? She's very much out for herself. She and I do get out
on the Colonial Parkway murders. I remember walking through an airport at one point.
I was on a business trip and I was on the phone with her.
I was changing plans and I had some time, and I remember arguing
with her, and I said, Len Marie, focus on what you can
prove, and stop trying to connect Michael Nickel out to every murder on the
East Coast from the Lindbergh baby on forward. She'd keep finding another murder or
a group of murders, and look, they're two hundred and fifty thousand cold
case homicides in the United States. There's plenty of murders to go around.
She'd say, Oh, I just found a murderer in North Carolina. He's
responsible for that, And there'd be enough basic information that she'd say, oh,
he was there at that time. Now. The weird thing is she
was able to put his wife having a baby Virginia an hour away from where
the Colonial Parkway murders took place in nineteen eighty six. So that was an
interesting idea and probably worth exploring. But then she would put aside anything that
didn't line up with her theory of the case, and she actually had him
killing everyone from Maine to Florida. It was crazy in Texas, Texas and
Texas too, Yeah, Texas too. And one of the things I found
was when I reached out to people in law enforcement who she referred me to,
they didn't even want to talk to me because I was coming in and
saying, Limri Ricardi suggested I reach out to you, and they were like,
oh please. You could tell they weren't taking her seriously as an investigator
because of these things that she was doing, and she was clearly. She
told me she wanted her own television series, she wanted a movie about her,
and I was thinking, how does this help the victims of the Colonial
Parkway murder? You doing a television show about how fabulous you are? What
the heck does that have to do with solving these cases? Oh, it's
so true. Totally agree with everything, And yeah, that's exactly what she
did. That's why when I questioned something that didn't fit, Oh, she
would get so defensive, so defensive. It's too bad. It's too bad
that his name is so much out there? Is she? When she started
getting involved with his son, I really wanted her to get his son some
help. And as soon as I started talking about that she was just all
about the media with Nick, and unfortunately Nick never got the help and he's
no longer with us, and it's sad. The whole thing is sad.
Jen. As the first season of Dark Valley unfolds, how are you all
going about highlighting the various suspects well also of course keeping your main focus on
the victims and their stories. How are you arranging the podcast so that you
can spend time on both things. I would say the first season is front
loaded with stories about these women, what their lives were, where they went
in town, the people they knew. We get to hear from their friends,
their family, their colleagues, all sorts of things. And then interwoven
in there is a couple of the suspects that came up early on in the
investigation, so we do touch on those, if only to put them to
bed. Like, we can't be definitive about each person that comes up,
but we can definitely explore the reasons why they might be a good person of
interest and definitely why they might not. And then I'd say, after we
go through Jane's story, the eight other women's stories, then we come out
the other end, which comes up into kind of a real time investigation where
I posit a theory about two brothers who lived in the town of Claremont who
are connected to another famous missing person's case in New Hampshire. And then we
have of a surprised person of interest that comes up at the end that I
think we'll probably break some people's brains. Oh oh, I'm intrigue. Now.
At the time we record this, you've had how many episodes have appeared
on your free subscription? There are two public episodes available, there are seven
behind a subscription which will then become public. And there are twelve episodes in
title that will all be blick and this will all be part of the first
season. Correct. Yeah, And then a wonderful little piece of synchronicity.
I opened up an email from crime Con this morning and there's Dark Valley,
Jen and Jane, and I was like, oh my god, we're interviewing
these amazing women today. Tell us what's going on with crime Con. Oh
my goodness. Yeah, this all came about pretty quickly. They were very
kind. Jane doesn't even know so Kevin and Elsa, the two people who
run Cry, We're kind enough to glast out our live virtual show, which
is happening this Thursday APM on the crawl Space YouTube channel. Jane will be
there. I will be there, Tom and Lance will be there, and
we're going to discuss behind the scenes of the show. I'm sure people have
a lot of questions for you, Jane, And then we were just invited
to crime Con and today we're looking forward to seeing you down there and Orlando
self. Yes, so will you do a presentation at crime Con in September
on Dark Valley and telling everybody what's going on with the victims, the case,
the show. That's the plan. The details have not been hammered out,
so I don't want to like misspeak or anything, but yeah, that's
the plan we're going to be. I think there's like a podcast row stage.
Yeah, the stage. Yeah, okay, Yeah, that was really
cool. Yeah, that's what we're shooting for. I like it. This
is very exciting. Yeah. Are you excited, Jane, Yes, I
am. It can be a lot, now, it can be a lot,
I can. I am excited. This would be my first crime con.
Oh, it's great, You're gonna love it. It's a lot of
fun. We did to crime Fest a couple of weeks ago, and that
was awesome, and so yeah, I'm pretty excited about going there. People
have to be excited to meet you. And you are an amazing person and
a survivor, and you have a very compelling story to tell. And I
know you've said on the podcast and in other interviews that you feel that as
a survivor, you want to make sure that the victim's story is told.
So I have a feeling people must respond to you in a very warm and
supportive way. There's been so many people that have approached me, and they've
all been so nice and caring, and it's been awesome talking. I've met
so many different people, it has been awesome. I'm glad that I'm able
to tell my story. I'm grateful every day that I get to wake up
and I get to tell my story because the others don't have a voice.
And just being able to meet so many different people that's been awesome. And
being on this journey with Jen and cross based Media, it's just it's been
awesome. I just want to jump in really quickly, like short of what
happened to Jane almost forty years ago. While interesting, Jane is a magnetic
person, like people just want to talk to you otherwise. She's so warm,
she's so kind, she's so quick to laugh, she's so funny,
like people are just gravitate towards you, Jane. So I think being in
this place and in this time, telling your story, telling what happened to
you, being an advocate for the other women's cases, trying to change what
happens in law enforcement, it's all in line with just who you are as
a person. No, thank you, thank you. Oh you made me
blush. Ahead and give our listeners information on where they can find Dark Valley,
both the public version and the subscription version. You can find Dark Valley
wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify, etc. We do have
an Apple subscription where you can listen to the first seven episodes. I'm going
to take a little interim break and then we'll be back again with the rest
of the twelve episodes, but all of those will be public throughout the summer.
Fantastic. The podcast is Dark Valley. Thank you, Jen, Thank
you Jane. We are so looking forward to seeing you at Crime Con in
September. That's too. Thank you so much. Thank you. That's going
to do it for this episode of Mind Over Murder. Thank you so much
for listening. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production
of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers Bill Thomas and Kristin
Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by
Kevin McLeod. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media.
You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also
follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you
can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas five six. Thank you for
listening to mind Over Murder.