So Shelly. In today's episode, we are finishing up the interview with Brielle
Decker. Part two of that interview, a Prisoner of the Prophet. Is
her show documentary right on? What Discovery Plus or something? Yes? An
Amazon add on? I don't know how did we watch it? Just look
it up. I don't know what Discovery Plus? I think? Do you
have Discovery Plus this whole time? Yes, because there's cool shows on that.
I do pay eight extra dollars month. Good shit, you know I
love me series. You know this documentary was probably worth all eight bucks because
it's that wild. It is wild. You got to watch it. Yes,
and we're gonna get right to part two of that interview just a second.
Also, we have a pod to pitch later on episode we do,
so stay tuned. We'll be right back. Hey, everybody, welcome to
Ladder Day Lesbian, the podcast about a night. Let me do that again.
Remember we need to do outdates. I know, right, blooper Real.
I'll just leave that in there, Dan, if you ever want to
save that for a blooper Real, we should. Literally as we go along.
Is it hard for you to take something that you're going to delete and
just throw it elsewhere and we can go through it later. Put in a
whole new well. It's like an whole outputting thing. Just leave this in
and I'll snip it later. Okay, leave this in, Dan, leave
it in. Snip it and save it. Snip it and save it.
So Shelley, Yes, Mary, we have a special guest once again today.
We docker welcome back Brielle Decker. Maybe we should just pick up that
interview where we left on, shall we? Yeah, I'm not sure where
that is in three two one. From the outside looking in, I always
feel so horrible for the women and the children, right like that just breaks
my heart. What do you think, though, that living this lifestyle does
to the boys as they grow into men and they advance on in the church.
It does hurt everybody. It hurts everybody in this whole thing. Because
if you'd listen to men talk about the story, which is hard to do
because they don't always want to step up and talk about it because they're not
seen as the victim all the time. But they honestly they have to come
up with the money for everyone. They feel responsible. They say. The
competition between the wives is absolutely the worst part. Some of them will say
that, you know, loving all these people and not being able to show
it's very hurtful. And then if you think about like the young boys get
kicked out, you know that they get kicked out regularly because of the competition
factor that the old men want the young brides. So the boys are not
valued, I don't think, and they make it really hard for the boys,
make it really really tough on boys in general. They actually say in
the FLS that like, if the boys become an apostile state and go public
and all of that, they can actually become what they caused set of tradition.
So a set of condition is like the worst punishment, but a girl
can never reach that capacity. They'll always be a different kingdom for the girl
because she didn't have that opportunity to be the prophet. That's a belief in
mainstream Mormonism as well, that it's it's the boys because they had the priesthood
and they know more and they're closer to God, so if they turn away
from ment, they are cast into outer darkness, whereas girls, I mean,
man, we don't you know, I don't know all that much.
Where nobody cares about the girls. Girls have it easier to stay anyway.
That's interesting. A lot of people have compassion for the women and the kids,
but in my perspective, there was so many women that didn't step up,
and there was multiple reasons why. I'm sure some of them did have
little their kids on the property in Texas and they decided not to step up
for those little kid's sake because then they would get kicked off the property and
those kids would go through more. That makes sense to me. But there
was so many women that never had kids and just never stood up, And
I didn't understand why it could be fair tac days. It could be a
whole host of things, But I don't have I don't feel like I have
as much compassion for those adult women because I became a target and I had
like so many abusers because I stepped out of my comfort zone and fought and
fought and fought. Yeah, the women didn't like you, No like me.
So I did have some friends, but like that was hell the arms
late anyway. Yeah, so they didn't like me because Warren just paid so
much attention to me. Some of them are that reason, and he did
because he was experimenting on me. I think I think he was trying to
get you to go back in line. I think he really wanted bad things,
Like I don't think it was anything good if I like it talks in
the documentary like if I got to that point where my American rights were taken
away and he was controlling me, I don't know what would happen to that
point. I think it would have been bad, you know, really bad.
If he's controlling people he can manipulate to do you know, I don't
know if he could have manipulated me at that point either. You know,
you never know what would have gone down if I didn't have any way of
escaping ever. So you mentioned having some friends in the compound. Were there
some women or someone that you could confide in about you know, you're disbelief
in it or wanting to get away. I couldn't confide in them because every
time I would cry and talk to somebody, they would call on them to
bear their testimony, like within fifteen minutes, just to clean out of them
anything that they might I might have said wrong, or it was very targeted.
There's been people now on the outside to have come forward and said there
was a hit out on me direct from Warren. He was telling people that
I needed to die because of like blood atoment. He's trying to say there
was just reasons. But every caretaker, every man that he put over,
you know, like I was on twenty four Watch and all that he did
have these care to they didn't want to shed inness and blood because that's the
other side of blood atoma. So that's what we were fighting against. Just
like they had to prove that it was just and they would get to a
point where they're like, this is just not just. Yeah, and then
he would move me to another house and not really start over, kind of
just heighten it to a different level at the other house with a different person
who hadn't been through all the same experiences. So you think if if he
had put a caretaker over you, that would have agreed with him that you
were bad news, that you could have lost your life. Oh yeah,
wow. Yeah, if he could have, he could have gotten it to
that point. He did try very very hard to get somebody, because he's
in prison by this time, to try to get somebody to take me out.
Yeah. I fought too. I fought really hard too. Yeah.
Is this something you saw like in other people where did you see other people
get a hit out taken out on them, or I didn't see it.
But I got to a point in my experience where they told me if I
killed myself, they would tell everybody was an accident. If I didn't kill
myself, they would tell everybody I did it myself. So basically, I
believe they're very secretive about that kind of stuff, like high profile stuff.
They don't want to do in public sect everyone too much. So maybe it
did happen, Yeah, but you did, but no one knew about it.
They just call it an accident. They kind of threatened them, you
know. Yeah, I look so the more you talk about the secrecy and
how how women have to bear their testiment to you within a few minutes if
you show any doubt, I think about the motto is keep sweet, right,
And the more that I heard keep sweet, it would just trigger me,
like keep sweet, Like I hate the women are supposed to be dumb
and quiet and never upset and always just so kind, and I hate that
it makes my blood boil. How was that for you? This whole keep
sweet? It's kind of like saying, shut up, be happy and do
what we say. I didn't understand that that was detrimental in there. But
I did know that I was getting numb numb, I was being targeted,
and it was becoming public, you know, in the family, and I
was still having to keep sweet for my own life sake. So like I
would numb it out, Yeah, like I would. I would sit through
a training and I wouldn't even move the entire time, hardly even dart blink
because it was just so intense. For those three years that I was harassed
and nearly but that was after he went to prison, and it started right
after he went to prison. I believe it's because he actually didn't really succeed
in making me an accomplice. I mean I went to the introduction and it
talks about them in the documentary, and then I never went back. So
basically because of that secret meeting in the Texas when all the women and all
that were in the room that meeting, I walked away from and never went
back. So like now I know on the outside, if you get introduced
to something and you don't go back, it's a good sign for you because
you basically decided you don't want to commit that crime, you know, right,
So I successfully avoided him in houses of hiding and talks about that after
I successfully avoided him because I didn't want to have underage brides and all that
in the room and all that. So anyway, because I successfully avoided him,
then I think I believe I was the only one who actually successfully did
that. So when he got caught and he realized he was never going to
be able to pull me back into an experience like that and make me a
full accomplice because I kept going back and back and back for more. So
you're saying the crime was underage bride's underage brunt. Okay, Well, he
had him in the same room as a bunch of adults and was telling them
to undress and all that. So he had a whole trick way of getting
everybody involved, and I was in the introduction to that and tricked into not
realizing that there was underage rights in the room until after, like he told
us to stay focused on him and not turn around and all that. So
anyway, when he did give his permission to turn around, there was underage
rights in the room watching us. So that was horrific. And I never
went back to any of those meetings again after that time frame. So after
I was introduced to it, I had to do a lot of things for
like basically for survival, Like I had to really be conscious of not attacking
him on that belief. So I would have gone and I just said,
I don't like this. I don't want to be a part of this.
I witnessed him tell other wives you have to stay, you cannot leave,
and he would get angry over things like that and feel like it was a
gest reason to be angry. But in my experience, I just wrote to
him, said I need more time, and he bought into my story.
He let me leave Texas and then basically I never was brought back into those
experiences because I was openly rebellious from that point on. And because I was
openly rebellious, it protected me from going back to Texas where he was.
So when you say accomplice, so he's got women in their witnessing, yeah,
underage bride, So now maybe he can blackmail say, well, don't
you if you tell on me, y'all are all going to prison too because
your accomplices? Was that the idea? That was the idea? Wow?
Yeah, they didn't highlight that very very good in the documentary. I don't
feel like, Yeah, but I think it's super important to recognize that,
Like, I feel like I can talk about it more openly than most of
them will ever want to or ever be able to. Some of them did
have kids on the property, and I believe in a court setting that would
also be considered. They would do anything in these underaged writing secret meetings because
they don't want to leave the property and put their younger children at risk.
That to me would make sense in a court setting also. So there'll be
some of those stories, and I've already heard some of those stories. In
my mind, I don't have as much compassion for women that didn't have any
kids on the property and stuff, And maybe I should. I'm not a
judge, but in my mind I was so targeted and so abused that if
I had more support, it would have been so much easier. Of course,
in that timeframe when I was going through that, Yeah, I just
think that the women had more responsibility because like, you know that he had
seventy nine wives. How could I you know, want of user in domestic
violence is enough, right, it's too much? Yeah, Yeah, So
he had like forty nine kids and seventy nine wives By the time he went
to prison so well, also getting that many people to go along with it.
You think that someone before you would have would have snapped and gotten the
heck out of there, you know what I mean? Why were you the
only one that I was in it? Well, because he made those elite
groups, and he had the guard towers and the gate around him and cameras,
and he put me on twenty four hour watch because I was succeeding his
aviating him. You're a problem, don't think right. Yeah. So basically
when he made it like a concentration camp, he told him it was the
holy place we're going to build where all. But it was kind of like
a concentration camp for some people, and nobody wanted to be in that position.
They were basically physically trapped at that point. It wasn't just the mental
cage that we were used to growing up. Gosh, did you have family
on the compound? I had my sister. Some of the time. They
would hide everything from her, They would just spoil her rotten, and I
don't know, she was instrumental in convincing my biological family that none of it
was true and that they did it was the profit that was really crazy because
it never happened to her, And I was like, of course it's not
gonna happen to you. They don't. They can't do that. That wouldn't
be secretive. Let's talk about probably your trauma that I'm guessing you may or
may not still feel today. You had this entire life of nobody standing up
for you. My father did good. That's that's awesome to have one person,
did you stand up publicly though? For you? That's what I'm saying.
Even at the wedding he was crying, but he didn't there. Yeah,
yeah, because then he lose the rest of his family. He told
me, he's always like I didn't want you to marry Warren Jeffs. So
you have now more of an understanding of why he couldn't do anything, you
know, because I feel like when I look back at people who didn't stand
up for me, it's angering because damn it, you should have. But
you you look at it like he would have. He would have if he
could have. Yeah, I feel like my father would have. I think
I learned a critical thinking from him. And also in psychology, they say,
if you have one parent who loves you no matter what, you're going
to be better off. That's where I feel like I learned love from.
I think of love as like stability. Oh I love that. Yeah.
Do you have much a relationship with your biological family now? Um? I
have two brothers that I'm really close to. I have my father who I
talked to all the time. He's never held anything against me, even though
he was kicked out a week after I escaped. Oh wow, where is
he now? He lives? Was one of my brothers that I talked to
all the time. Does he still consider himself part of the FLDS church or
is seeing more? No? No, they won't even let him come back
when he was kicked out. They told them you would never be able to
return. So does he still prescribe to those beliefs or is he I'm just
curious, like when people leave, what do they do? Okay, he's
changed a lot. It was a slower process. I feel like than sure
some of the kids and stuff. I know. It's really loving in Jesus
like to kick people out, you know what I mean. I don't one
of you try to explain the reason Jesus's name is in the title of your
church. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, there's nothing Jesus about these
religions. I think. I think it's yeah, it's about them. It's
about the leader, you know, getting everything, and yeah, it's not
about the people, because like even in my situation being elite, we weren't
working a regular job. We were a whole body, Like he had seventy
nine wives that are just staying home all day teaching school and stuff. But
like basically we were working all the time, but we weren't paid for it.
And then all the people that are paying for it are starving, and
you know, because he's requiring so much money from them. It was a
horrible setup. Wow, scammer, do you still have some friends within the
flds, like in the compound that you know? I don't work with people
on the outside mostly, gotcha? Yeah, Because my next question, I
guess does imply I was going to ask if there was one person you could
save out of the compounds, who would it be? But I guess if
you really didn't have a lot of tight relationships because you were too rebellious,
I sure all the one thing one if I was you know, a dream
world of who I would save, it would be my mother. I really
wish sometimes that I had a better relationship with her. Sure, I really
wish that I would have tried at twenty six. You know, it was
when I escaped and I didn't know how to go there, and I don't
think what the church it would have been good. But you know, I
have such a close relationship with my mom that adopted me now that I just
wish that I could also have that with my badge. She is she able
to talk to your biological father. No, she's on the inside still and
he's on the outside. So we haven't talked for eleven years. So yeah,
Wow, do you ever wonder what's going on? What happened to her?
I know that my sister, who was also married to Warren, is
assigned to take care of her. So it's like a trauma bond kind of
the ball not going to leave because of the other one. Wow, I'm
wondering because throughout the documentary you keep having times pop up where you're thinking,
I gotta get out of here, I gotta get out, and you do
make a few attempts. It's not like you had one day where you're like
I'm done. You jumped and that was that. So I'm curious. Do
you remember like what specific teaching or what specific moment kind of triggered you over
the edge where you were like, I'm going to try to start getting out
now. There was a few of them. There are big ones, like
basically the first one was realizing that the god I had been taught about my
whole life I didn't believe in because Warren Jeff's didn't act out like he was
requiring more of me than he was doing. Oh yeah, you know.
I woke up in that in a house at Hiding, and before that I
was openly rebellious to everyone. I was like, I'm not praying to and
sure I don't go back to the group before I decide I'm ready. It
got to a point where Warren Jeffs was calling me up directly and I was
just telling him I'm reading. I didn't tell him the real reasons why I
wasn't going back. I just said, I'm studying because I want to be
further ahead in my life. I want to know if this really works.
You know, I can't just trust it it works, because like you know,
I didn't tell him that, but that's what I was thinking. I
can't just trust it. It works because of all the good people that were
following his program that we're kicked out, Like, why would that be something
I wanted to do if it wasn't succeeding. So after studying for a long
time his words, because that's the only books and the only recordings I had,
I just started realizing more and more and more like this God, you
know, I'm learning out how to make it into his kingdom. But like
he doesn't exist, and this is Warren Jeffs interpretations. He's the one that's
given me all these all these trainings, and he's not living this way,
So like, yeah, this God doesn't exist. Is that your proof that
God doesn't exist? Based on the way you were seeing this religious leader live
his life? Clearly, because that's how he taught us. He was supposed
to be the example. He's at the top of the pyramid, he's supposed
to be the closest to God. So you were so disappointed in his actions,
You're like, this can't be real. God can't exist. If this
is God's representative, then it's both this sucks. Yeah. Yeah, because
even if I went over to another poligamy group saying they had a different leader
that maybe was leading. All the doctrine, all the doctrine I had been
given was Warren Just's interpretations, so it wouldn't be this exactly the same way
of making it into heaven. Do you think that Warren Jeff's actually believes he
is the prophet and talks to God, or you think he's just scamming people
and knows it. I think he's a narcissist, a sociopath. He really
likes to take away people's hope, really slowly, antagonized. He thinks it's
funny, thinks it's fun, He enjoys it. He has their heaven,
you know, their ultimate dream, and he's raised them to believe in this,
you know, wonderful place. And he's slowly just telling them, ah,
well it's right here, but you can't get it, you know it's
right. It's just really sad to watch. It's just horrible. It's very
maculative. Yeah, and remember he had that one moment they showed him in
prison talking to his brother yet a moment of doubt. He kind of related
to his brother, this isn't real. I remember that. But then he
came back around. Yeah, then he came back around. We didn't hear
about that inside of there. Sure they didn't let us scare those recordings.
Right later on in the documentary talks about how you were having PTSD episodes.
I would love to get into that a little bit because I know a lot
of our listeners have PTSD from the trauma they've gone through from their religions.
So, yeah, do you mind talking about that for a minute. Yeah.
So, first off, like it talks about how I was on eight
Andrew saraquill and I've had people come forward and tell me we knew she was
overdrugged. We knew that if we stepped in, we'd get punished, but
not only that, then the other people in the office would lose their family
and stuff. So like they were being trenned to give any more drugs and
a lot of them were doing it. So like I had so many at
eight hundred milligrams as cycle by the time I left. And I believe the
only reason why I would survived, because that's actually lethal those wow, is
because I built up to it then just give it to me all at once.
And also I was fighting it so hard. Why'd they say you needed
it for sleep? I was fighting sleep because I wasn't safe. I don't
think that's really supposed to be prescribed for sleep. It looks like it's for
part of it, but it's not really for that. It's like for depression
and schizophrenia and borderline personality or something. I just look this up. Bipolar
disorder, that's what it's for. Yeah. My doctor in the cult would
tell me that if I was fighting really hard for something, you can take
more of it. I don't think he really wanted to prescribe that much to
me, but he didn't. You know, he would lose his family if
he did. What's a typical dosage? Seems like that's so hard. Do
you have any idea what a typical dosages? A typical dose is, like
maybe two hundred, that's still pretty high. You were on eight hundred.
I was an eight hundred by the time I left. Wow. The usual
I'm reading this, the usual recommendation for insomnia is twenty five milligrams once a
day at bedtime. Yeah. Yeah, and you were taking eight hundred.
Yeah right now. So when I left, I went called turkey off of
medicine obviously, because like I was running for my life and all of that.
So then there's a whole side effect thing to that in most medicines,
but I was still fighting like everything for survivals. So I learned a lot
of skills about reading people in the cult, like I learned to reading people
quite well withoutwards. I believe it did help me a lot when I met
new people in my life. I would still apply those things really naturally.
Yeah, vigilance is a trauma response, yeah for sure. But in flight
mode, where I was literally running for my life, they were chasing me.
They put me on the missing list. They told every activist out there,
they all tell me they got a phone call that said she is under
my mother's custody and you need to like return her. And I was twenty
six years old, but they were trying. I believe if I would have
got brought back, they would have succeeded at taking away my American rights.
But because I was twenty six and that hadn't happened. If I would have
been put in front of a judge and my family has all turned on me,
the doctors are all saying one thing. I don't think the judge could
have read through it. I don't think they would have believed me. Wow.
Yeah, So when you say, when you say take away your American
rights? Is that just like the conservative ship that Britney Spears went through.
Oh gotcha. Yeah. And if I get put in a sane place and
the person who has my rights is somebody in the colt that Warren Jeffs puts
over me, I'm screwed, which it would be. Yeah, which it
would have been, And nobody would have known me. And he has done
that to people, and I didn't realize it was stacking up on me.
So basically saying you're not fit or competent to make decisions for yourself, you
can't sign documents. It would have never mattered if I really was competent.
Sure. I was running from that, and that was really one of the
biggest factors why we did the whole social change and get legally adopted, because
then if I ended up in the hospital for flashbacks PTSD, which was pretty
bad obviously coming off cold Turkey and medicine and all of that, Yeah,
it would make so that if I was in there too long for a temporary
facility, then the decision usually goes to a family member to make a decision.
I didn't want to wake up in the FLDS. Yeah, so it
was your your adoptive mom could. Yeah, so my adoptive family would make
that decision, and now my husband right, Yeah, so that was huge
to do the It took two years. Wow, were you nervous those entire
two years? I went to Tennessee. I lived in Tennessee for two years.
Nashville did the PTSD lesson when you got off to SARAHQ Will like,
do you think that was mostly what was causing it? Or was just your
shitty upbringing it was? I'm not on Saraki where at all. I didn't
have constant clarity. For the first six months, I'd have days that were
better than others, Sure, and then after that I'd have a like a
really big panic attack, kind of like a really big I call them PTSD
episodes every six months, and I did end up in the hospital for a
temporary time frame. What were those like? Did something trigger it? Were
you having thoughts during it? Trigger fear based? Mostly? Sure? After
I moved back to Salt Lake after the two years, when my identity had
all been changed, I was convinced to move back to Salt Lake because of
when they changed my Social Security number, they didn't change my SSI in the
same month so I couldn't pay my rent. My attorney was like, I
just got some free tickets from an XFLDS boy who said the town in Cardo
City is changing. He just became a pilot. He had these free tickets.
He said, if any bids in crisis, tell him to fly home.
Oh wow. In Salt Lake, I stayed with an XFL the s
lady for a while. But anyway, PTSD usually gets farther apart over time.
Yeah, that's great, and that's what happened to me. So like
it was four years. Last year, I did have a small episode.
It was a less amount of time than usual. So that was a year
ago, but before that it was like five years, four or five years.
Do you still like fear for your life? There are days where I
worry a little more, but I think it's been eleven years now and I
have to tell myself to pull myself out of those things. Because I thought
the documentary i'd get a lot of bad feedback, but I haven't got any
actually so far, and most of it is just confirmation that it was true
and that was not what I was expecting. So it's still a learning curve,
but it's not the same one that I was planning for. I was
planning for a lot of people just trying to deny it because they don't want
to be in that mode of confirming it, you know, but nobody has.
Everybody just really sorry. And we didn't realize that it was because of
the secret meeting that he told us to do all this stuff. We thought
he was telling us because you really did something bad. So, Shelley,
this seems like a good time for a break. Break time we are back.
Hello, Hello, So you've done some amazing things since leaving. I
would love to hear all about the Dream Center. What is it? What
do you do? So? The Dream Center is, to be honest,
they are Christian based. If you put like a Mormon based facility where you
get grants some way, the money has to come from somewhere. Sure.
So basically, my mom, my adoptive mom, has done small organizations for
years. She's worked in a lot of those and they don't get the funding
in your top because the grants. She's really bold about, like polugamy is
not healthy. We want to help the victims of people that do want to
escape. There's also the whole side of polugamy where they say you know,
like Sister Wife show where they're all like saying, you know this is healthy.
You know, there's all those people I called Stockholm syndrome. Polugamy is
Stockholm syndrome. They're capted by the system, and some people identify with it.
They learned to say, you know, we're going to make this work.
Anyway. My mom is on the captive by this system side, and
in Utah, if you are on that side, it's really hard to get
funding for your nonprofits because you can't get grants. Because I mean you can,
but like it's really hard to get grants because of Mormons. The funders
have a lot to say in how you run your program. So if they
don't you read the grants really well, they can just say like you can
only have this money if you do it this way. Wow. That was
a big factor, And so my mom wouldn't take those opportunities because they weren't
really opportunities. So she wouldn't give the money, and then she couldn't help
the people because she doesn't have the money. So anyway, the money has
to come from somewhere. So basically we wanted to have a broader scale be
able to help the people in a broader way. So the funding in the
dream center mostly comes from Christians, and most not more about Christians again,
like ones that the Christians that actually do behave like Jesus well hopefully in comparison
to wardships. Yeah, but I'm just saying that's why the funding comes from.
And they do have a lot of rules in the dream center to not
trigger people because it's, like we've explained culture sensitivity. Walking into a rape
recovery center and say we're going to talk about rape, you know, is
it going to be really horrific. So we walk into a dream center and
say, we don't talk about God here, right, because this is their
trigger in this area. So most dream centers do have more of that because
they don't have that as the trigger. But the short great dreams that are
definitely we have to act our lives out. We can't. We can't talk
about God in the facility unless somebody asks about it pretty much, and anything
with church is optional, gotcha. So it's it's a pretty good setup for
that. And actually when you get in side of there, which not every
fld AS person realizes that it's a little different, so they sometimes don't want
to walk in the doors. But if they do take that step, what
they do find is like their story will be believed. These people have no
reason why not to believe their story. Where if you go into a facility
that doesn't have a Christian base in Utah, then there's that risk. A
lot of times with the Grand Route, a lot of people they're just told
it wasn't true. Take drugs because like you just imagine that, that's a
really common thing to shush up victims in Utah, I believe. So we
have to watch for that through any grants we get too. When you escaped
FLDS, you ended up at the Dream Center, right right, Okay,
how did that happen? How'd you find out about them? So the Dream
Center is in Warren jesse old house. So the landowners in Colorado City is
a lot different because of the church in the past. So fld as round
this little town. It's actually the backside of Zion's Park and it has really
gorgeous mountains and stuff here. The UEP was set up. It's a charitable
trust, so it's like a it's kind of like a nonprofit type thing,
but it's a trust. So like Warren Jeff's got up in church. This
is the fast version and just say, you know, like there's more long
versions of how this happened, but the fast version is he got up in
church and said, if you want to stay in the church, which meant
keep your family, then you need to donate your titles to your houses to
this charitable chest called the UEP, the United Effort Plan. Cite the United
Order if you probably understand a little bit about the United Order. So a
lot of people did because they wanted to keep their families and stuff. So
he owned almost all the property in this little town, in this charitable rust,
this guy, and then he would move people around. He'd say,
like big families go in this house and small families go in this house.
And you know, like he just moved everybody around. There was a moving
crew. They would show up at your house in the middle of the sometimes
and just say we're moving today, like everybody, Oh my gosh. Yeah,
it was it was a mess. They just throw everything movie out,
moved somebody else in. That's just yeah. He was doing that before he
became the leader, but he was doing it through his father because he was
kind of the caretaker of his father. When he became the leader. He
ran from the law, and the state took over the UEP trust, and
the state of Utah and Arizona took over the trust and they gave it to
xfld S people, and that's why this town is an older compound and it's
becoming mostly XFLDS now. When I came back to Utah, I figured out
that the UEP rules were so I was an illegal wife. I couldn't go
through court and get the house because I was an illegal wife. But the
UEP had rules that if you were if you built the house, or if
you're a wife of the person who built the house. The XFLDS people made
these rules after they were put in that position to by the state, and
they just said, we're going to give it first to people who built the
house, or people a wife of the person who built the house. And
I happened to be one of his wives, and they knew I was because
they were XFLS people, and he was in prison for life, so he's
not coming back to get his house. So I went and applied. There
was some of his family that supported me in that cause they didn't really want
the house because it's a high profile house with tons of bills. You know,
we weren't sure it was going to be able to be anything, really,
so when we applied they supported me in getting it they didn't And also
a lot of them had more history with that particular house. That house was
in Hildale, Utah, and that house was the house that Orangeffs lived in
before he became the leader. And so I went into his family after he
was running from the law, not on the most wantedless, but he was
running from the law. Didn't register that until after the wedding. But anyway,
so I'm saying this house in Hilldale, he wasn't really at when I
was there, all right, because he was already running from the law and
he was already gone. So when I moved in there, I moved there
for like four months. And so anyway, it's just easier for me to
deal with it than somebody who had a lot of history that was bad there.
So that was the experiment, was seeing if we could turn that house
around. When you escaped, where was the first place you turned for help?
So for me, I ran to a family in town that I had
heard had left altogether. So I first worked my way back from the elite
groups into this older compound to Colorado City because there are some XFLDS people here
and flbs. So I worked my way here through like fighting for opportunities,
and it just so happened. They decided to send me back to my biological
family to question them in some areas. So I got locked in solitary confinement
in this town and unscrewed the screws in the window and ran to this family
I had heard about that had all left together in this town and I knew
where they lived. Because I didn't want to show up at the wrong house.
If it was an all the house, that wouldn't work for me,
So I had to go to somebody I thought would help me. Well,
when I ran through a yard right before I got to this family's house,
so it was a lady sitting outside that was dressed to XFL the ASID.
She was like, can I help you? And I was like, yeah,
I need to get up to the neighbors. So she drove me up
there, and I didn't know her, but she's like, should I go
in or should I just leave? I said she might as well come in,
So she came in, and what she did is she knew the phone
number of the organizations on the outside. The family I ran to had two
recently left themselves and they didn't know anybody on the outside either, so they
actually called my adopt the mom now that very day. She's working for an
organization in a neighboring town. The family I ran to drove me down to
her that day. They took them all day to decide to do that,
but they said they would because they wanted me to stay with them. They
were trying to convince me to stay with them because they know me and they'll
take care of me. I was like, no, this isn't gonna work
this time. So anyway, they drove me out. I went to my
mom's house and she was the one that I had lived through the aub group,
which is a different polemic group in Utah. And I escape, that
is your adoptive mom you're talking about right now? Yeah I don't, Okay,
Yeah, Kristin Becker. So she wasn't my mom at that time,
but she fought so hard for me and all of that that when I went
to Tennessee, I actually asked her to adopt me. Gotcha, And she
was working for one of these organizations that help people recover from the sort of
situation. Okay, yeah, And was this all based in Utah then yes,
she's still based there. Yes, so you basically you and your husband,
I guess established the Dream Center. Since then we actually found the Trade
Center and gave them everything that we could give them for the cause. And
then they did talk to the UEP and all of that and figured it all
out. They did at least to Own first to be showed the licensing would
be able to be in place, and they actually took over the payments immediately
even though the contracts to the least own were it done. So they took
over the power of the water all of that immediately. What do you do
when someone like you you were in the past comes to the door of the
Dream Center and it's like I just escaped a cult? What do you How
do you help someone? So basically we have an application and we just basically
set their own goals. Like if they don't have an idea, which happens
in cults a lot because they have midwives, then I don't always register them
with the state, so they don't always have a social so it depends on
their case. We go through their case with them and decide their own goals
that they want to have in their own life. We do it over a
series of time. The first day there's like six papers, but then you
know, over like a month, will meet with them a few times,
figure out what they need. There's no deadlines. You can stay for years
if you're as long as you're keeping peace in the house and you're working towards
your goals. So they live in the facility. Potentially it's always over fifty
rooms. It's like twenty eight thousand square feet. Oh wow. It's the
goal to rehabilitate them in such a way, like find them jobs or how
do they how do you transition someone out, Teach them what a resume is,
to help them with their interview questions, get them a job. We
transport them to their job if it's in town. It just depends what they
want, like if they want to save up for a car. We actually
have a transitional house now, so if they want to save up for a
house and it's for a more advanced patient, so like when they've been there
for quite a while, we try to move them over to the transitional house
and open up beds for more people in crisis. Gotcha what percentage do you
think it is of the flds that escape that get out in this town of
Colorado City and hill l Utah, there's they in compass. They call the
both towns together. They call it Short Creek. In Short Creek, there's
like eighty percent xflds now twenty flds. Oh that's awesome. How many do
you think go back? Do many go go back after they get out?
Not very many? A few? Yeah? But that one thing also is
in my documentary. It talks about like seventy other locations of flds, so
they scattered all over, but this older compound is kind of like a hub.
And do you have to be FLDS to qualify for aid through the Dream
Center or other organizations? Or can you just be LDS? You could be
LDS, you can be m They just prioritize poligamy groups and probably eldis two.
I don't know, but I do know that they do take other like
domestic violence. They do take other things if there's space, but they prioritize
the people from this culture first. Sure, sure that makes sense. So
interesting? Is there is there a way that we can tell our listeners how
they can help out the Dream Center, whether it's yes or a website you
can point us to. Yeah, there's a website Short Creek Dreamcenter dot org.
That is such a great thing. Do you think people within the compound
they're understand that there is the Dream Center, that there is somewhere to go.
Yeah, maybe that's holding people back. They don't think they have any
place to go any way to start over. They're stuck. That's one thing
about doing it in the prophet's house. Oh, they can't hide it as
easy product to the prophet, you know, his house, Like, yeah,
that's smart. Yeah, oh that's awesome. That's great visibility. Right.
I love that, And I've done in home daycare in the past.
I've done right now, I'm a fair support specialist as well as an RA
at the Dream Center. So I did twenty hours as a FIR Suport specialist
and twenty hours as an ARA. So basically when I did the in home
daycare I loved it, but I just gave it away because of the documentary
coming out and all that, Like, yeah, you've been you've been busy.
Yeah, you seem a little busy with the documentary. Where where have
you been? Kind you've been promoting it and people want to talk to you.
What are some of the cooler things you've done. So basically, we've
been to Phoenix quite a few times, but we're also planning a trip to
San Francisco, a big event in San Francisco in September for Suicide Prevention Month.
Nice. And I love that because my logo is the fire poppy,
and that's like the state flower of California, but it's basically my logo because
it grows first after a fire in some areas. Okay, I like it.
And also I had a butterfly on my logo because I need that and
my angle of expertise, like what I'm trying to explore and all that is.
I don't just tell my story all the time. I'm working toward healing
from generational abuse. Yes, yes, absolutely, yeah, speaking of healing
really quickly. Was it hard for you to do this documentary? Did it
throw you back too far? It did? For That's why I had that
last week last year, I had that little PTSD thing. It had to
do with the documentary and some of the verifications finding out there was a hit
on me and stuff. But you know, I healed a lot from that
and it wasn't as long as normal. I think a lot of that,
like when I do take twenty milligrams of Abilify right now, And I think
a lot of that asked to do with when I figured out what kept me
stable for five years. You know, I didn't want to backtrack and make
everybody paranoid again, because every time you try to come cold turkey and with
a doctor or anything, if you mess with your medicine, people all get
heightened in awareness and around you, your support system kind of goes to their
own their own worry for you. And I don't want that, So I
just decided I'd just stay on twenty milligrams. It's better than upsetting my life
again. I think it's so amazing that you were willing to do the documentary
and get back into that ugly place, work through some things, deal with
your PTSD as it hits you afterward, to help people. You know,
that's you put yourself through a lot of additional shit that you didn't have to
just to help people. That's I mean, that just speaks to your character.
Yeah, you are so brave, so brave. Thank you so much
for sharing your story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, is there anything else
you'd want to add that you think we've skipped or left out or something you
want to put in there. I think we're good. You know, I
have a website too, Yadecker dot com. Yeah, b R I e
LLL Decker. It's not as nice as the Short Creek one, but it
is there. Yeah, trying to get there. We can put these links
in the show notes. But if anyone wants to donate to the Dream Center
Short Creek dreamcenter dot org and check out Prisoner of the Profit on Discovery Plus
or your Amazon Prime add on literally amazing, jaw drop dropping Espyre. You
won't even believe it when you watch this documentary. If they want to get
my book later, it's not out yet, but they can send their email
and put it on like email list from my um like through my website.
Oh cool book, Look at you going? So what's the name of it?
Do you have a title for it yet? Um? I don't.
I do know the title, but I can't, like I have to launch
it right, what do you want? Yeah? We be good at that.
When is it supposed to be released? Um, we're working through the
Dream Center of self published, so like we don't have everything figured out we're
close though. It's all written just yeah, trying to get all right.
But if people send you an email saying, hey, we're interested in the
book, then you'll have them on a list. Yeah. Perfect, I
love it, I love it. I will put all this in the description.
Brielle, thank you so much for being our guest today. It's been
amazing to connect. But gosh, I'm so glad we did. This is
so good. Yeah, so good. Yeah yeah, yeah, all right,
thank you so much. That was such a great interview. Seriously,
yeah, seriously, so fascinating and what a story. I'm so glad she
escaped that ship. Oh my god. I would love to interview her again,
like in a year, two years, see what's going yeah with her
foundation and everything. Yeah, yeah, awesome, Thanks again Brielle for joining
us. Super awesome. Love your story. God, it's it's heartwrenching and
also what a what a great happy ending though heartwrenching and inspiring. Absolutely for
sure. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and then when we get
back, we've got a pod to pitch. Shelley gets to que music I
do always fun, and then uh, well we got to figure out how
to do Patriot names to I've got an idea. Don't spoil it, okay,
spoilers. Listen to the commercial and stay after so that you know what
we're gonna do with the new names that we are giving you. Alrighty,
please don't fast forward through the commercial. We won't get paid. That's right,
we won't get that three cents. We get totally. It adds up,
I guess eventually. All right, be right back. We're back and
uh no, I want to talk Mary. Okay. I came across an
awesome podcast called Late Learner. This is by Alison Hair, and I want
to talk about it. Yeah. So this is a blurb she sent us.
I'm just gonna read it. Read. It's about the conversations you have
once you outgrow where you are interesting. In other words, unexpected places to
find answers to your most important questions. It's bold, it's badass. Ready
to throw to the clip? Can I yeah? Cute music? Seriously?
Well it's been a whusince I got to do that. Cute music, bitch
your pus. Oh yes, how about the get list instead of the bucket
list. You might be like me. You've checked all the boxes, you
did everything you thought you should do. You got the house, the kids,
the job, but something is still missing. Why isn't it enough that
bright, playful spark of yours was put on ice way too long ago.
And not only that, You've got some bumps along the way that left you
a little bit bruised. But now we are reviving that a live badass you
accidentally left behind and we're going bigger. Welcome to Late Learner with Me Alison
Hair, where we are breaking down the behaviors that hold us back and learning
the cutting edge and most effective ways to heal and move forward with confidence.
This podcast is for the person who almost told yourself it was too late.
Turns out you are not about the status quo after all. Subscribe to Late
Learner with Alison and Hair wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so check
out Late Learner with Alison Hair wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay, it's
for patron names, Shelley. Oh are we are we doing this again?
Well? Yeah, we are, my phone, I know how you are.
How do we decide to do these patron names? Well, because good
old Warren Jeff's um has lots to say. As the prophet to the world,
we are going to give last names of some dumb shit that he would
prophesy. Oh like fake prophecies. Aren't they all fake? Did you have
to start fake? So all right, let's get started. So we see
how this has played our first patron. And by the way, God,
thank you for supporting us, all of our patrons, even though thanking God
right now. Thank thank thank you, Heavenly Father for your Thank you,
Heavenly Father for this moisture we've received today. What they stain that? Yes,
it's true. Oh my God, you just say thanks that it rained
God? No, I believe Father. We're so grateful for this moisture we're
receiving today. You know, I'm sorry. Mormons are just creepy. It's
just creepy, creepy. Did I just say that? Yeah? Can't you
just talk like a normal person? Can I say that I never said moisture,
never thanked jack Ship for the weather. I don't know why I didn't
cross my mind. Weather happens, whether you want to do or the weather.
All right, let's get back to the names. Okay, First up,
Lori pe or is it Luri? Someone's waiting for that. It could
be Laurie or Laurie, I don't know. You should see the spike that
happened on the recording. It good, it Hill, You're welcome people's ears
and Dan sorry Dan um So. Something that I think that Warren Jess would
come up with is he would probably say something like the starts of the pea
pornography. I wish I could do his creepy voice, monography is now only
for me, only for the prophet that would be me. God, his
voice is so gross anyway, his new revelation is pornography is for him and
him alone. Oh all right, I like it, so, Laurie,
pornography. Sorry, Laurie, I don't know. Your name is sorry together
and sucks. I can't remember the time we had like good last names because
we fuck them up. Yeah h yeah, it's not your fault, Laurie,
Luri, except as Andy and Andy didn't bother giving us an initials.
So well, along the same lines, Andy is Randy's Randy. I wrote
it wrong. No, what Andy is Randy because he's the prophet and only
the prophet has loved to watch porn? Oh so Andy Randy and that's actually
pretty good and new last name is Randy Andy Randy you're welcome. Is this
all gonna be sexual? For sure? Melanie with no last name? Another
no last name, probably because they don't want us to give them new name.
Haven't they learned that you will get one whether you want one or not.
There's no please don't give me an you fuck that. You're getting a
new name. That's what we do. You need a new name to get
into heaven anyway, you might as well let us provide it. You know,
Shelley started this four years ago or something, and we just cannot get
out of it. I can't. I think it's expected at this point because
we do like to announce our patrons. And how do you suddenly say,
you know what patron's going forward? You don't get the new last name.
I know it would be tragic. Yeah, they might pull their support.
We're not having that. You're gonna pay five bucks a month. You're gonna
get a fucking new name. All right. Well, what's Melanie's last name?
We don't know, because you didn't. I know, I know what
you're than anyone. It's up to you. You're doing this, okay,
So we have Melanie something that I am sure and has already that this fake
prophet would prophesy money. What about money? Money must be given to me?
Okay, Melanie money, that was your fake prophecy from Warren Jeff's Is
that a prophecy or more just led demand. No, it's saying God told
me that you seemed to give me money. Yes. I don't know if
prophecy counts is like future only, But when this guy talks like this prophecy
to his fault, it's kind of like when you get a fortune cookie and
it says something like you're a kind person. That's not a fortune, that's
just a comment. Does that make sense? I'm similar. But when he
says God said, God said, God said money goes to me, give
me money? Yeah? Is that what God told him? Melanie money was
in prison? Yep, thank you for your support, Melanie, Thanks Melanie,
Thanks for giving us your money. Oh maybe that was a prophecy oh
for us? Yeah? Oh she was meant for us. What a sweetie
pie. But we do appreciate you, Melanie, Yes, yes, yes,
okay, Next, Catherine s s all sinners will suffer Beryl in the
afterlife. There it is. That was good? Did you enjoy my Warren
Jeff little creeping too? Close. So Catherine Sinners, Catherine's sinner. Good
job. I'm sorry, Actually, is it? Yeah, let's see what
we can do for Joey, Jay Jay what you got? I'm thinking,
and I'm gonna say, but this isn't Mary. You're gonna put it into
Warren Jeff's voice. I think something like judgment is upon you? Din't is
this Jeremy No, Joey, Joey Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
Joey, Joey, Joey a little too old man. It needs to be
more soft spoken, like sort of high pitch, but not you know what,
No, this isn't a scandal. I can't say that. Odd,
I know what you're saying. Okay, Joey judgment is upon THEE. I
threw in THEE? These better? Yeah, yeah, he would say THEE?
Is it Joey judgment? Is that what we decided? Yeah? Sorry,
Joey, Joey judgment. That's like a cool rock star name. Joey
judgment. Joey judgment. That's not really a prophecy though, what that judgment
is upon THEE? Listen, none of these are prophecies. This is just
like God said, blah blah blah. All right, all right, Okay,
God said kids, take away your toys. God didn't say the toys
will be taken away. God told me to tell you no more toys kids.
Sorry, fuck off? All right, well, thank you Joey,
Sorry about the all the judgment that sucks, sucks for you. Sorry.
Who's next? That's it? That was five? Oh, that was five?
Already got Lord pornography, Andy, Randy, Molina, money, Catherine,
what did we say about kid? Who's an s Oh? Sinner Catherine
Sinner and Joey judgment? Thank you all, And you know we have three
super Cast members to announce today. What is Supercast? Get you? It
gets you Scandal sessions? Oh, it's okay, we have to explain this
again everyone hang on, oh God, hang on. Okay. We have
two ways to get additional content. One is through patriot on right. Everyone's
familiar with Patreon, but you have to go to the Patreon either app or
site to listen to additional content. Sometimes we you know, post a picture
of video or something there. Yeah, that's one way to do it.
Sure, you have to do it on Patreon's app, right, Okay.
With Supercast, it goes to your regular podcast player commercial free right. Well
yeah, scanal sessions are always commercial free, and you also get regular episodes
commercial free. There we go. Yeah yeah yeah, so commercial free episodes
and scandal sessions correct, and a shout out on the show that's true and
name yeah, lucky, lucky you new name. So that's the two things
Patreon and Supercast. Okay, that's how you support us. Yes, and
if you're interested in doing any of that. I know it's confusing, especially
to Shelley. Sorry. Just visit latter day lesbian dot org slash support yea
and read all about it, okay, or ask me and I will confuse.
Oh yeah, she'll tell you all about it. She has no idea.
Okay. So today's Supercast members, we're gonna mention Autumn are Oh I
got this, okay, go only finding old man. He's not okay weird,
he's this weird, soft and creepy. Yeah, only the righteous teenagers.
Oh God will be my next wives. That would be a prophecy from
creepy. I'm sorry, I'm sorry everyone in prison, Jeff, good God,
Autumn Righteous, I'm sorry, Autumn. Wow, we are just making
these this new name process. Really creepy Autumn Righteous, that's pretty good.
Just just ignore the rest, I said, gosh, I'm really inappropriate today.
The next Supercast member is Rachel c. You want to take this one,
Shelly? I don't know. It should be something about like the consequence,
oh, not following me the prophet? You want you want to you
want to put that one in Warren voice? Give me a sentence. I'm
not sure, like the consequence of you not following me? Uh huh is
something like eternal damnation? Okay, go the consequence of not obeying the prophet
will result in internal damnation. That was good, was it? I liked
how you put in following the prophet because he talks about myself third person and
kind of like Elmo. Elmo does that? Does he? But? Okay?
Last Supercast members, that was Rachel consequence? Thank you? Last one,
Kirsten k okay. I think it starts with Kay kangaroo Warren Jeff's loves
kangaroos. Does he those extra pouches? I don't know. Weird? Oh?
I got one huh something about you'll get kicked out of the family.
Oh if you don't obey okay the prophet? Do you want to try this
one? Disobedient? No, kicked out? I'm getting the ship. He
can't rush one Jeff's voice because he talks some fucking slow anyway, Okay,
go ahead, just so obedience will result in being kicked out of the what
do they call it, let'say, eternal family? Eternal families. I don't
know. I kind of botched that one. It was good. He got
the point across. He wouldn't say kicked out. He would say, I
don't know, expelled. Do we need a new K word? Is there
one kangaroo? You know what? I'm gonna google? K words of langaroos?
Works are the most righteous of Australian animals? Yes, what do you
care? Shit? Why not fucking hate? Do it? God said?
God? Say fuck those wallabies or koalas? No, they don't start.
Oh yeah, that's another K word. We already the kangaroo one in the
in the Jeff voices. And isn't it kuka barak? I don't know is
that a K word? What's with Australia and the sounding? I don't know.
I'm another shrimp on the ball, all right, go with kangaroo,
Kirsten, kangaroo by the best one we had. It's better than kicked out.
It's true. We're weird. I mean, is he more likely to
say kicked out or kangaroo I don't know. I don't probably get out.
It depends on what God tells him to say. Mmmm. Well, he
would probably think he's really weird sounding if he starts talking about kangaroos and koalas.
Yeah, but he never he's always weird sounding. He never thinks he's
weird. Remember that one part in the documentary where he basically admits he's a
fraud and then changes takes it back. Yeah, I'm like, huh,
okay, somebody has a little bit more self awareness and their plan a game
right now. They're playing a game with people's lives. Yes, so he
knows what's up. He does continue clearly awful anyway, Thank you all for
your support. Sorry for butchering your new name. Never sorry per usual.
Thank you Dan from a extension audio. Thanks for leaving it in. Really
appreciate you and everyone listening. Remember steer clear those fucking cults because they're no
joke, no joke at all. Talk to you later. Byebye,