1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:01:30,439
Then don't do then the the the
the, the, the, the,

2
00:01:30,920 --> 00:02:34,960
the, the, the, the, the the the don don't think the

3
00:02:35,680 --> 00:03:53,879
don don't do the the theft the
the the the the the the the the

4
00:03:54,599 --> 00:05:23,839
the don don't don't think the do
the the the the, the, the,

5
00:05:24,519 --> 00:05:51,319
the, the, the, the, the, the the the the

6
00:05:57,920 --> 00:07:10,639
don't then the the the the the
the doting. Kaya, y'all, what's

7
00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:18,399
up, y'all? What's up?
Yeah, y'all feel me? Y'all feel

8
00:07:18,439 --> 00:07:30,560
it, y'all, y'all, y'all
feel it. I feel it. I

9
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,759
need an alien the work for me. I need it alien to work for

10
00:07:34,879 --> 00:07:40,279
me. I need an alien the
work for me. I need an alien

11
00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:55,959
to twork for me. Yeah,
that's I need an alien on coin bas

12
00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,199
I need an alien to trade for
me. I need an alien to trade

13
00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:05,920
for me. Make games, no
trades for me. I need aliens the

14
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,720
trade for me. Hey, my
girlfriend, that's the way for me.

15
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:26,279
I need an alien to twirk for
me. Proboscos little Parker aliens on talker.

16
00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:33,960
I need an alien the word for
me. I need an alien to

17
00:08:33,279 --> 00:08:41,080
twork for me. Need aliens the
word for me. HI need an alien

18
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:48,159
the word for me. I need
an alien. Hi need an alien to

19
00:08:48,279 --> 00:08:54,159
twork for me? Alien girlfriend on
corny base, make the trades, get

20
00:08:54,320 --> 00:09:03,960
base, get the third base with
aliens. Lonely houseman, need an alien

21
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:16,559
in the based Men need is alien
to work for me? Need a aliens

22
00:09:18,639 --> 00:09:37,679
work for me? Y'all feel that? Am I the only one feeling that?

23
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:48,320
Proboscus lip pucker Aliens on talker,
I don't know, It's just freestyle,

24
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:48,759
man, What do you want?
What do you want from you?

25
00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,759
How y'all doing the night? A
lot of a lot of things happen.

26
00:10:00,039 --> 00:10:03,279
It's just too much stuff happened to
even keep up with, you know what

27
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:09,120
I mean? Too many every day, just the craziest news stories. Everybody

28
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:20,559
in, everybody in the chat feeling
this abduction reduction. I'm gonna try not

29
00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,240
to cough. I've got my coof
drops. I got all kind of coof

30
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:30,759
drops. Are you? Are you
all doing? We're going to find your

31
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:37,480
best AI boyfriend girlfriend for you?
Unlock new achievements? Are you lonely?

32
00:10:37,799 --> 00:10:43,159
You need to unlock a new achievement? Everybody hit like and share what's going

33
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:48,000
on? There's nothing else to do
on on Friday night, right, I

34
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,320
mean, we got all kinds of
aliens that can get y'all in the mood.

35
00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,120
We'll get this dude. He's not
even doing nothing. Remember this one.

36
00:10:56,279 --> 00:11:01,240
There we go. That's what I'm
talking about. Party night. It's

37
00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:05,519
Friday night, party night. I
need an alien to work for me.

38
00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:11,240
Uh huh. I need an alien
that's worth for me. Uh huh.

39
00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:16,759
I thought we'd have fun tonight,
a little bit of fun. I don't

40
00:11:16,799 --> 00:11:22,440
know, this probably won't work,
but I was gonna move for karaoke.

41
00:11:22,519 --> 00:11:26,360
You'll wanna move for karaoke? What
song did you wake up thinking about today?

42
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,080
Of course this never works because as
soon as you try to play karaoke,

43
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,919
it's like copyrighted content. Well,
how do you get to how do

44
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:41,720
you go to a karaoke bar and
sing and it's not copyrighting content? The

45
00:11:43,039 --> 00:11:48,960
copyright police, Interpol, that'll be
busting down all the doors of the karaoke

46
00:11:48,120 --> 00:12:01,320
bars. Come on top of the
world. This is what I woke up

47
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:11,480
singing. But is it gonna work? You know what I mean? I

48
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,200
want to just sit around and sing. That's really what I feel like doing

49
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,320
tonight. I remember one time I
did us live stream where I try to

50
00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:22,559
just do karaoke songs. Karake songs, Krooka songs, and it had like

51
00:12:22,799 --> 00:12:26,480
a million super chats. I got
like five hundred dollars from doing a karaoke

52
00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:31,240
stream and then it was like thirty
copyrights on that video. So I might

53
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,799
could do it and then just take
the stream down put it on rock Fin

54
00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:41,960
something like that, right, you
know what I mean, y'all want to

55
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:48,679
of course we could just do karaoke
stream on rock Fin. That's also a

56
00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:54,240
possibility. I think I'd get away
with that. I know, when Jamie

57
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,720
and I did our mom core dad
core song, we somehow got away with

58
00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:01,519
played a bunch of us and we're
not just singing tonight. We're gonna talk

59
00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:05,480
about aliens, We're gonna talk about
the Tucker clip, We're gonna talk about

60
00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:07,720
all. I gotta get in a
fun mood, though. I just all

61
00:13:07,759 --> 00:13:11,039
this stuff is so ridiculous. You
just can't take all this stuff too serious,

62
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,320
you know what I mean? This
is a classic book. I mean,

63
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:18,440
we're talking all of the essays of
the Collins brothers for the last fifteen

64
00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:24,879
years, thousand pages, and it
has within it its own alien psyop book

65
00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:30,799
three hundred pages right here in the
middle. So that's a classic. Everybody

66
00:13:30,879 --> 00:13:33,960
be sure and getting voke in the
beyond. But I mean, are y'all

67
00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:37,600
not just feeling this? Y'all not
feeling it? Let's see, I got

68
00:13:37,679 --> 00:14:00,039
my caroque here if you send me
super tests off qu come on. But

69
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:05,159
I try to tell you so,
but I guess you didn't know. That's

70
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,600
the saddest story goes. Maybe now
I got the float because I knew it

71
00:14:09,799 --> 00:14:16,080
from the star. Maybe when you
broke my heart that I had to come

72
00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:22,200
again and show you that I'm real. You love me all those times I

73
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:31,960
said that I love you, Yes, your side chid hi, even though

74
00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:39,320
you know I die for you.
Yes, I cry here, I cry

75
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:50,080
hurt here it is, Come on
him, my gosh, here I am

76
00:14:50,960 --> 00:15:01,879
once again brit talk about the world. So I'm back up in the game

77
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:07,399
and I'm always not in things.
I lost my place. Now I'm back

78
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:13,000
to run the show because of what
they did. You know what's wrong and

79
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:20,039
all the nats, the things you've
done. I lost my places. Come

80
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:28,320
on me, she said, she
never turned on me, but you did.

81
00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:33,240
But you did. Hear it?
All this pain you said, I

82
00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:41,840
never feel, But I do what
I do, do do Come on?

83
00:15:43,879 --> 00:15:52,840
Hold on, don't you know?
Here I go. Don't let them go

84
00:15:52,919 --> 00:16:03,840
out, let them go right?
I know? Mark, I mean Jay

85
00:16:04,159 --> 00:16:18,480
Jay, Mark Burns, Mark Hackard, Mark Hackard. Okay, I'll stop,

86
00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:23,080
I'll stop. Who are you?
By the way, she said she'd

87
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:32,120
never turned on me, but you
did? But you anyway? What y'all

88
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,360
think about that? That was fun? Top of the world? It is

89
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,480
too real? I got a super
chat out of it. Do we get

90
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:47,639
any copyright stress? Look, we
somehow made it through that, so hell,

91
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:48,879
I might just keep doing that all
night? I mean, I don't.

92
00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:52,120
I just mean that song over and
over and over. What if I

93
00:16:52,279 --> 00:17:00,000
trolled y'all and I did a live
stream that was just the all night long?

94
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,519
Is a sound too low? It's
always hard to get these levels right.

95
00:17:07,559 --> 00:17:14,680
I think Scott's staffed from Creed doing
Matt Morrison or whatever his name is.

96
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:17,079
That I would be a good version. I'd be a better version.

97
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:23,039
Actually. Thank y'all for the cheers, the adulations, Thank you for the

98
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:29,279
vanities, Thank you for all the
vanities of the vanities from people in the

99
00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:33,519
audience better than most. I wasn't
even singing serious here? What if I

100
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,200
was singing for serious y'all? Have
heard some of my other songs where I

101
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,319
do sing for serious. Some people
got blown away. So you know,

102
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:47,119
I'm just clowning around right now.
What if I've turned on the serious juice?

103
00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:56,119
What if I flip the serious button? Then what you can super chat

104
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:03,680
with super chats? I mean with
stream labs one more time, y'all joking,

105
00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:06,599
right, y'all joking. Well,
I'm gonna try to play it.

106
00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:08,400
I gotta try to play it in
sync. I'm not gonna do the whole

107
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:36,880
song again. Right, come on? When I try to tell your songs,

108
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:45,960
but I guess you did. That's
the sadestalgic goes. We already have

109
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,279
one's enough. Come on, y'all, y'all, y'all had enough of that.

110
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,240
Let's do care What if we could
do karaoke night? I can do

111
00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:02,599
this one. And I took a
bunch of cough related stuff. Right,

112
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,880
you're like, what you what drugs? Is he on? It's called coffee.

113
00:19:08,519 --> 00:19:12,319
It's called it's called coof drops.
That's when I'm on. I think

114
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:22,039
we can get away with this one. Y'all know this one? Y'all want

115
00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:27,160
to hear that one karaoke or get
serious? It's the audience choice tonight.

116
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,160
What do y'all want to do?
Try karaoke? Come on? Who Yeah,

117
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,559
I'm also set still I've got like
the Vatican coup for like five years

118
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,880
now, and I'm still I can
still do it. I mean, we

119
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,599
busted out with Aliens Torkin. We
went to freaking Mac Morrison. I mean

120
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:55,359
we did. It's been twenty eighteen
since I did a coroque stream, and

121
00:19:56,759 --> 00:19:59,839
I think this audience deserves it as
a Christmas present. We're gonna get serious

122
00:19:59,839 --> 00:20:04,480
to worry y'all. Everybody wants carrot
tonight. We can try it, although

123
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:12,960
I don't know if it's gonna work
because the you know, the the copyright

124
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:18,839
algorithm is gonna will attack, you
know what I mean? Uh, here's

125
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:23,079
a good classic I can sing.
People say, I'm no good, crazy

126
00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:30,240
as loom. Y'all know that song. See if it works the moment a

127
00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:49,880
friend becomes a real friend. What
you people see, I'm no good,

128
00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:57,720
crazy as a loom. I get
stoned in the morning and I get drunk

129
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:03,799
in the afternoon, kind of like
my whole blue chick town to like to

130
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:11,160
lay around in the sheep. I
don't got no money, anybody damn show

131
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:19,119
got in me because I ain't asking
nobody for nothing if I can't get it

132
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:30,039
on my own. If you don't
like the way I'm living, you just

133
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:48,359
leave this long hair cuts a b
along, hit your man on talking on

134
00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:56,599
TV, putting down the rock and
Roll wants me to send a donation because

135
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:03,440
it's worried about my sold sitting.
Jesus walked on the water, and I

136
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,799
know that is true. Sometimes I
think that preacher man. I like to

137
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:17,359
do a little walking too, because
I ain't asking nobody for nothing if I

138
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:27,319
can't get it on my own,
if you don't like the way I'm living,

139
00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:40,720
and just leave this long hair cont
going along? What's up with the

140
00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:45,200
super Chance? Shout out to Rob
Brain, Shout out to rock Brain,

141
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:51,759
Shout out to Christal, Shout out
to Kenyon, Super Chap, shout out

142
00:22:51,799 --> 00:23:00,680
to be a man. This part
is called the Super Christy twenty three.

143
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,279
It's all about aliens tonight, Baby, you don't like the aliens landing?

144
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:26,000
Leave the long hair saying a particular
alone said the chants leaving, So y'all

145
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:41,000
nobody wants to y'all know about Tennessee. A poor girl wants to marry a

146
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:47,960
rich girl wants to flirt. Rich
man goes to call age and a poorer

147
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:53,160
man goes to work. A drunkard
wants another drag of wine, and a

148
00:23:53,279 --> 00:24:00,240
politician wants to both. I don't
want much, nothing at a oh,

149
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:08,200
but will take another too. I
ain't nobody for nothing if I can get

150
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:19,359
it all my own. You don't
like the way I'm living, and just

151
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:30,880
leave this long hair and red neck
along? There we go. See y'all

152
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:38,920
like that one? Mm see the
Superman. The super chats always come rolling

153
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,000
in. When I started singing,
started yelling, star yelping, mak him

154
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:48,359
stop, send him money, mak
him stop. People in the other room,

155
00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:52,920
yelling to the people watching and listening, mak him stop. Please send

156
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,480
him fifty dollars. It'll shut him
up. Yeah, you send me fifty

157
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:06,720
dollars, I'll shut up. I
had an idea. Here's another one I

158
00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:12,200
can do. It's kind of hard, though, Oh, y'all know that

159
00:25:12,279 --> 00:25:22,200
one I met one more. Everybody's
being torture with us. Turn it off.

160
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:34,680
Oh you're might go again. Let's
see if it works. This is

161
00:25:34,759 --> 00:25:52,839
my favorite character croak song. It
works? Oh, I guess the only

162
00:25:52,960 --> 00:26:17,680
version there is? Y'all know,
this one because someone ropean I do know

163
00:26:17,799 --> 00:26:22,519
the words, well, I gotta
have a version with the words. I

164
00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:30,240
don't want purple rain. I know
there's a karaoke version because I've done it

165
00:26:30,279 --> 00:26:45,480
before. Hmm. I'm trying to
redeem myself because we had a karaoke last

166
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:52,079
Christmas at a party and I did
pretty good. But I messed up on

167
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,920
one song and it was the one
song and I just I just totally failed.

168
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,160
I just collapsed and crumbled. I
like knocked it out of the park

169
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,559
with like four karaokes and then I
came to my favorite and I just I

170
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,759
just messed it all up. It
was just a huge, just a big

171
00:27:06,839 --> 00:27:11,759
old mess man. So I'm trying
to redeem myself because I want to I

172
00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:18,079
want to nail pink Kashmir. You
know what I'm saying? Who here we

173
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:33,200
go? It doesn't have the words. What's the use of the karaoke with

174
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:41,759
other words? That's stupid. Let's
try a pink Kashmir karaoke. Y'all got

175
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:44,240
some more requests. What do y'all
want to hear? Whitney Whitney Houston.

176
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:57,960
Y'all want to hear uh uh Verry
White m h so none of none of

177
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,200
these have the words. I mean
I kind of know the words, but

178
00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:11,200
yeah, anyway, Oh, if
I go, we can falling in love

179
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:17,039
all over. Oh the second move
is you just pray, don't get burned.

180
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:25,759
Oh this fire inside of me.
Don't nobody realize anyway? We already

181
00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:33,599
got Now we got four hundred people. Dang, dang, four hundred people

182
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,279
with the karaoke party, and we
can't even do we can't even do freaking

183
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,920
Prince. Now, y'all want to
hear uh? Somebody said bury mantal,

184
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:53,519
y'all want to share? Share karaoke? Prince karaoke? And what's our options?

185
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:02,599
Everybody knows raspberry beret? Though,
what do we scream at each other?

186
00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:11,640
I don't like. I'm not a
big fan of when doves cry,

187
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:18,200
you know what I mean? Do
we have any wood grain gripping? I'm

188
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,519
a hood. I don't know if
I get away with singing that one?

189
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,960
Am I getting trouble singing that one? I know a lot of Prince,

190
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:33,759
and there's a lot of prints song
as I can do. But baby,

191
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:41,000
you got some making you a goat
off pink. Let me try another way,

192
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,839
ask her. I'm not gonna ask
her, are you in a lum

193
00:29:52,920 --> 00:30:00,680
here? No? No, I'm
married to Tim shaving me Tim. So

194
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:07,599
there's a whole bunch of karaoke virgins
and no words. So the only reason

195
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:14,279
I need the words is because I
won't get the spots because I'm not used

196
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:18,440
to it Spotify now, I guess
they took it down because there used to

197
00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:27,680
be pink Kashmir. Can somebody put
a link to pink Kashmir freaking karaoke song?

198
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,000
H Anyway? Do we want to
go on and get Let's get to

199
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:38,599
aliens? Right? I'm worldly?
What does that mean? You here to

200
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:48,720
preach to me too? Worldly?
He's a center man for daring to know

201
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:57,000
the lyrics to long Haired country Boy. Y'all want me to sing Cream nineteen

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ninety nine? Should we get to
the serious stuff? What happens when you

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start a live stream and you're supposed
to be talking about serious stuff and then

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there's I don't have any inkling of
being serious, but I put all these

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serious topics. I do like Raspberry
right though. That's that's pretty good song.

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I mean people get mad about that
though if I sing it. Not

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that I care, But y'all want
some more rap? We gotta we gotta

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00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:42,319
rap heavy audience, right, do
I do? We can falling a love

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00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:56,400
all over some never you just pray
it, don't get the kid can't never

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mint all right, we gotta get
serious. Enough of this nons it's too

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much nonsense. We got to talk
about the real stuff. We had alien

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twerking. That's good enough. That's
enough for y'all. So come on,

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did y'all see the big conversation that
went down between me and Rollo and James

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00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:36,799
Sexton, the famous lawyer man,
the famous lawman, the famous law man.

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00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:44,000
This sounds like it sounds like a
line from a from a I don't

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00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:51,880
know, John Wayne movie or something. The law man Jim Bob Andrew talking

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00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,519
about chopping it up, talking about
destiny. I'm not talking about fate.

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00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,799
I wish we were talking about fate. It would be a better world if

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00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:07,759
we were just talking about fate and
not blue haired destiny. But that was

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00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:08,799
an interest. We'll get to the
aliens. Don't worry. We got all

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00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:15,319
night to talk about aliens. Thank
y'all for those generous super chats. That's

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00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:25,759
very super. Y'all are super people. Come on, mm hmm. This

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00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:31,400
is how we do it. Mm
hmmmm. This is how we do it.

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I saw the sign somebody said,
we need to hear you do ace

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00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,559
of Bass. We're like ass of
Bass. That's what I would. That's

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00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:45,480
my band. I'm gonna start a
band. That's what's gonna be called.

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00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:51,759
Watch you think I'm joking. It's
ass of bass and are We're only gonna

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00:33:51,759 --> 00:33:54,839
put out Booty CD Booty Booty Bass, Booty CDs, y'all. A lot

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00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,480
of kids don't even know what that
is. And by the way, remember

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remember this. We're gonna revisit a
little bit of this, remember this classic.

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00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:05,759
I uploaded this to Twitter and then
I accidentally deleted it as soon as

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00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:07,440
it went up, which was an
idiotic thing to do, but I will

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re upload it. Yeah, remember
booty bass. In the nineties, there

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00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,679
was the trend. I guess it's
still a trend because I hear dudes riding

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around with subwoofers and uh twin woofers
and metalw woofers and whatever all the woofers

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00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,440
are. You know this is This
still goes on. I don't think it's

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00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:38,480
as big though as it was in
the nineties. But people would bring their

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00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:45,400
Base CD to school, right and
then the Base CD. It all looked

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00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:52,159
like this right here, tech master, peb bass, I want more.

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00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:59,559
But it was for the dudes that
had the you know, woofers, so

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00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:05,239
that they could play riding around.
See they don't even see that, manure.

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00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:12,480
Here we go, base Quake,
base Quake, Base CDs and basically

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00:35:12,559 --> 00:35:15,920
the music's awful. It's just bass. But it's for the dudes that there

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00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:16,840
we go. Look at all that. That's it. This is what it

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00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,639
looks. This is what the nineties
were like. You go to high school

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00:35:20,639 --> 00:35:22,880
and your friends like, oh man, you get the new Bay CD.

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00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:29,119
Even the white dudes, not just
white dudes. All the white dudes had

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00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,280
ladies of bass. How could there
be chicks and there's no bass. There's

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00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,320
no women with women don't have bass. See women trying to step into my

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00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:47,760
domain and Bay CDs nineties bas mix. Let's see if we can find one

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00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:59,599
royalty free and it's all just here
we Miami bass. Yeah, like that's

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00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:06,360
not right, du it's gotta be
really low based ten minutes and nineties base.

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No. Anyway, I never had
a woofers and all that stuff,

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00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,719
so I never really understood. Maybe
it was supposed to. I don't know,

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00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,599
like does it turn girls on.
I'm trying to figure out, like

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00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,760
is it just peacock and you're just
trying to get attention? Look at look

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00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:28,239
at the speakers Like that, dude, I spent my Walmart paycheck on five

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00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,480
thousand dollars speakers. Brother took me
six months saving up wasting my money on

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00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:42,760
stupid ass Base. I'm not talking
about supersonic, just Base, just just

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00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:45,800
they were just generic. It's like
they came out of a factory line.

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Just Base, just Base. I
want more pace. But if you grew

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00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:58,159
up in the nineties, you remember
Base CDs. So we're talking about aliens,

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00:36:58,199 --> 00:37:00,320
though, what was that to do? Anyway we're talking I don't know

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00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:06,920
how we got to that from destiny. But so this was an interesting conversation.

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I'll play a little couple bits of
it because we got, as you

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00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:15,480
might imagine, Andrew steered the conver
I'm not fussing. I'm just stating what

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happened. Andrew steers the conversation away
from destiny to God's existence. So it's

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00:37:27,159 --> 00:37:29,960
just interesting to be able to be
in this situation where I get to talk

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to people you would never expect,
right about all of these metaphysical topics.

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We got into other metaphysical issues,
and James and I had an interesting back

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and forth. We'll hear this part. There's quite a few good gags and

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jokes on the way as we watched
a bunch of TikTok videos. Then we

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00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:59,000
got to a bunch of clips of
Destiny swimming in a pool and being fed

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treats. Yes, there, never
take a low shot. I held off

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until it was the right moment.
Unlike Andrew just doesn't give a fuck,

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I don't. And by the way, there's one more I have to look

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00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:28,880
at real quick. Here we go, what is this fucking that's that's me

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00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:37,679
coming out. But it actually gets
way worse than this. It's not just

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00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:42,719
his girlfriend feeding him like a dolphin, which I guess it's supposed to be

280
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:51,039
funny. I'm debating whether I should
play the other clip. I don't think

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our audience would find. But so
I've never watched anything from Destiny. I

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00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:02,199
don't know anything about Destiny other than
when he trolled Tristan in their debate and

283
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:07,119
didn't show up to debate in good
faith, which I tell I told Tristan

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that's probably what was gonna happen.
That destiny is not really a good faith

285
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,920
debater. But there's a certain clip
that I'm trying to find. I don't

286
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:22,239
see it, but regardless, here's
what we have is basically, this is

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00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:29,760
a throutfle situation. So that's the
ex girlfriend there, that just or the

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00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:37,119
ex wife, and this is the
this is before they got together and they're

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00:39:37,199 --> 00:39:40,719
in this fun throutble situation. You
see. That's two guys. Okay,

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00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:47,760
So so that is what we're talking
about. The conversation, however, progresses

291
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:53,440
to other topics which I'm gonna play
a little bit and comment on because James

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00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:59,159
is a prominent lawyer who's been on
quite a few pretty big podcasts. He

293
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:05,199
was on Lex Friedman and then we
all kind of had this conversation about ethics

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00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,000
and God's existence and whatnot. So
the reason I'm playing this so is I

295
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:15,000
actually thought the way that I encapsulated
the argument here in a very common atheist

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00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:19,239
question and objection is worth repeating.
So we're not going to watch all this

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00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,800
if you really want to watch this
whole thing, which is largely just largely

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00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:29,320
just clowning around and joking. Right, So, and destiny has pretty much

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00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:35,159
gone after everyone in our sphere,
so that's I think, and even adjacent

300
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,239
spheres of people and everyone on this
podcast. So that's sort of the background

301
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,679
here. But I do want to
play the little exchange between mister Sexton and

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00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:52,119
I because it was actually a good
apologetic example here, and she could have

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00:40:52,159 --> 00:41:00,519
been dudes on the side until people
need to say, Okay, this this

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00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,480
way of doing something isn't working,
so the opposite of it must be our

305
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:08,719
salvation are what we like. We
romanticize that our grandparents are the greatest generation

306
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,480
of be able to make no compromises. But also, my partner should companies

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00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:15,239
flood the record show, I'm not
an atheist if you want to know about

308
00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:23,960
a perfect compliment to who you are, all right, So I'm just trying

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00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:30,360
to find the part where Andrew shifts
the conversation away from destiny to uh theism.

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00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,400
So that's the part I wanted to
play. Jay being with the person

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00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,320
who you probably have monogamy with,
because you would say, hey, this

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00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,480
is what I will. Doesn't this
bring up the whole the whole point really

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00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:45,079
kind of to you know, to
to our arguments in the past. Rollo.

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00:41:46,119 --> 00:41:51,519
If you are married but you're acting
in all of the ways a Christian

315
00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:54,159
marriage would be enacted, which you
are right, faithful to your wife,

316
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:59,800
faithful to you, you're handling your
obligations as a husband. She sees used

317
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,119
the head to your household, all
of the different you know, all the

318
00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:07,119
different variances which are there. It
seems like you're kind of following the infrastructure

319
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,559
anyhow, you know what I mean. And so if that's the case,

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I would feel like that's a point. I'm not a I just hope,

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00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:16,920
I just like to filet the record
show I'm not an atheist. If you

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00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,639
want to know what about I know
it's the last chapter of my fourth book.

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00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,400
So there's a secular argument to be
made for you know, for for

324
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:30,840
this, I mean even if look
if if, if you don't so here's

325
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,320
where it gets good. Right,
So mister Sexton's is gonna say, He's

326
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,440
gonna say, well, let's just
have a purely secular argument for you know,

327
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,840
loosely Western biblical morals, the Ten
Commanders. Right, he makes this

328
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,760
argum, why don't we just have
a secular because why do I have to

329
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,639
choose a theist you know, rounding
or a theist response, Why don't I

330
00:42:53,880 --> 00:43:00,960
just say that if this works,
then I'll use this ethic right because it's

331
00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:05,760
it's it's useful, it's utilitarian.
And I'm playing this because I hear this

332
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,079
all the time, So you're gonna
hear me give a basic response as to

333
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:13,079
why that doesn't work, and hopefully
it'll it'll click with everybody why I'm playing

334
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:15,960
it and why that may why my
response makes sense. I think I made

335
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:21,039
it very sixcinct and very clear.
So here we go. If you don't

336
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:24,199
believe in God, there are a
million reasons to follow the Ten Commandments.

337
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,480
You know. It really is not
just a function of like I defy.

338
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,119
I've never followed the argument of you
know you you you, we would have

339
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,880
no morality if we didn't have religion. I don't buy that. I rate

340
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:43,159
and plus I want to which is
none. I brought you on specifically tonight.

341
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,440
I did this to you, James, because Jay Dyer here happens to

342
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:52,639
be one of the finest Christian apologists. I'm playing it earth. By the

343
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:54,360
way, this was not planned.
I had no idea what to expect.

344
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,880
I didn't even know that Sexton and
Roll over coming on. I thought it

345
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,119
was me and Jim Bob and and
Andrew is gonna be riffing and making fun

346
00:44:02,159 --> 00:44:05,920
of videos and stuff. Not that
I don't mind it, it's just that

347
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,400
I wasn't expecting any of this.
I had no idea who was coming on

348
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,159
his stream. He was like,
hey, you want to hop on and

349
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,119
celebrate the Christmas stream and I said
yeah. So this was just kind of

350
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:22,159
out of nowhere. And he believes
in the opposite, that that morality can't

351
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:29,719
actually really exist absent you know,
God, and that the secutor argument doesn't

352
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,920
work. And I've been kind of
waiting to see what this exchange would be

353
00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:36,719
like forever, so I just kind
of wanted you to maybe lay your case

354
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:43,800
out for that real quick. Well
j yeah, well I didn't know.

355
00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:47,199
It wasn't planned, so it's not
planned. That's I would say that,

356
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,199
like I was talking about earlier when
the guy asked, could you summarize your

357
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,920
argument in under a minute, Like, it's true that what James is saying

358
00:44:55,039 --> 00:45:01,280
that person could definitely choose the the
principles of the Ten Commandments to you know,

359
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,840
live a life that benefits them so
that they can flourish, so the

360
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,599
society, you know, functions in
a moral way. That's true, but

361
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:15,880
in terms of like logical argumentation in
philosophy, we usually we usually talk about

362
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:21,119
grounding because there's a difference between just
a pragmatic sort of acceptance of the things

363
00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:27,039
because it works, versus is it
coherent? Can you actually demonstrate a basis

364
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,159
for the ethics beyond just kind of
a pragmatic Well it works for me,

365
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,679
it's a subjective thing. I like
it. Going beyond that and saying that,

366
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,880
okay, but how does this work? How is it possible that there

367
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,480
is right and wrong? So the
argument is out of the domain of like

368
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:47,800
subjectivity and pragmatism and in to the
domain of whether there's a coherent account for

369
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,199
the ethics. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. It makes

370
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,519
so once again, as you can
imagine. The point here we always have

371
00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:07,519
to stress is that in philosophy there's
this thing called justification and it's not more

372
00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:12,400
specifically in epistemology, which is a
branch of philosophy. A lot of people

373
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:14,920
think, and I think James probably
thinks this as well. I'm not knocking

374
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:19,039
them to stating because this is typically
what people think. They think that,

375
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,599
well, philosophy is this thing that
kind of you know, spurgy, people

376
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,679
do who go to university, and
it's just its own kind of world.

377
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,199
It doesn't relate to the rest of
the world, you know, the world

378
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:34,360
of law and politics and whatever else. Right, But what they're failing to

379
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,239
understand is that once you engage in
rational debate and discourse, no, you're

380
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:44,039
actually in the domain of philosophy,
even if you don't know it. And

381
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:47,599
that's the hardest thing to get people
to understand, is that you're in the

382
00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:51,960
domain of philosophy even if you don't
know it. And what I tried to

383
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,280
do is make an analogy to law
to James right, because you know,

384
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,519
if I'm driving down the street,
I'm subject to the law of traffic,

385
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,920
even if I don't even know what
the local traffic laws are. Maybe there's

386
00:47:06,039 --> 00:47:10,159
ordinances about how you know you can't
I don't know, make a left turn

387
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,360
in the downtown you know, Court
Square area, and I do it,

388
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:19,400
but I didn't know that ordinance.
Well it doesn't matter, Like I'm still

389
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:24,519
subject to the ordinances even if I
don't know them. So likewise, in

390
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:28,760
the domain of ethics, or excuse
me, in the domain of philosophy and

391
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,760
pistemology, if you make a knowledge
claim, you claim to know something.

392
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,960
You're subject to the rules and laws
of thought, whether you know them or

393
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:45,320
not. Thus you can't irrationally make
moves or non sequiturs right that don't work.

394
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:47,760
It's kind of like chess, and
I make a chess analogy here in

395
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:53,920
a second, where I say that
just because you don't know all the chess

396
00:47:54,159 --> 00:47:57,920
rules, like, you can't come
to the chess board and say, oh,

397
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,920
well, I brought uh, here's
my check and here's my monopoly man,

398
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:05,400
and you know, I stick all
these different things on the board and

399
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,840
start doing whatever you want, or
flip the board over and say I want

400
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:13,880
those violate the rules. So most
people just simply don't understand that there's such

401
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,679
a thing as laws of thought.
Rules of thought, that's all logic is.

402
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:25,760
And they're not arbitrary. Their laws
and rules that reflect actual metaphysical principles

403
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,000
because they directly relate to the true
and the false, the good and the

404
00:48:30,039 --> 00:48:34,360
bad. So that's where I was
trying to kind of introduce the topic here

405
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:39,800
in this discussion, and hopefully you'll
notice that. And here's what's interesting is

406
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:44,800
that he was a great guy to
talk to. We had a great three

407
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:51,559
hour interaction there, really smart guy, but I still don't think he understood

408
00:48:51,639 --> 00:48:53,440
what I meant by justification, because
I think a lot of people when they

409
00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:58,000
hear that word, they think of
it in sort of the colloquial sense,

410
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:04,159
right. They think of justification as
like, I'm justified, and what I

411
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,599
say to you because I have the
right, you know, something like that.

412
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:12,800
What we mean is giving good reasons
for beliefs, and they have to

413
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,079
be good reasons in the sense of
being coherent with the rest of our beliefs

414
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,679
and the rest of our reasons for
our beliefs, So it can't just be

415
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:24,000
any old reasons. I believe two
plus who's four because I had a dream

416
00:49:25,039 --> 00:49:30,119
and in my dream Bill Cosby appeared
and said people follows evils Abel Tuo plus

417
00:49:30,199 --> 00:49:31,639
us four. So therefore that's why
I think two plus suits. That's a

418
00:49:31,679 --> 00:49:35,679
bad reason, even though it's true, it's not a good reason. So

419
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:42,639
justification is just simply giving good reasons
for our beliefs, because we want to

420
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,840
have some reason for our belief If
we don't have any reasons, then our

421
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:52,960
beliefs are completely irrational. That doesn't
make me a rationalist. This just makes

422
00:49:53,039 --> 00:50:00,000
me rational two different things. Rationalism
is a system or kind of all encompassing

423
00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:07,199
philosophy where everything is exhaustively explainable and
definable in some you know, worship of

424
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:12,119
reason sense, that's rationalism, not
the same thing as being rational. It's

425
00:50:12,159 --> 00:50:15,199
two different things, just like having
an idea. It's not the same thing

426
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:21,360
as idealism in philosophy. And when
I say idealism, I'm not using it

427
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,599
in the colloquial sense. I don't
mean idealistic twenty year olds who believe that

428
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:30,599
they can instantiate world socialism. No
idealism, the philosophy that all that exists

429
00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:36,519
as ideas like Plato, like Hegel, That's what I mean. So we're

430
00:50:36,599 --> 00:50:42,679
like two or three levels removed from
from pop normal discourse. So people don't

431
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:45,679
even know what we're talking about.
When they hear the words, they think

432
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,039
we're using the words in the colloquial
sense, right, like person in theology,

433
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:52,119
Right, all you're talking about is
just a dude. It's not what

434
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:58,559
person is. And theology it's more
much more nuanced than that. It's charitable

435
00:50:58,599 --> 00:51:04,519
and nuanced. So let's see how
we replies to the basic encapsulation that I

436
00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:07,519
gave that things need to be to
have good reasons behind them, not just

437
00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:12,800
any old reasons. That's me.
I think. I don't know that it

438
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,920
gets us any further though in terms
of the logic of it, because I

439
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:22,800
think ultimately you you could look at
it purely as a societal function, right

440
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,960
You could just say, well,
these are the principles around which an ordered

441
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:30,559
society should be put together. Or
you could look at it even from just

442
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:36,440
a a a broader experience of the
self. Right, So if you look

443
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,079
at, for example, like how
Judaism views Hell, you know it doesn't

444
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:44,480
view Hell as a place. It
views Hell as a state of being outside

445
00:51:44,519 --> 00:51:47,320
the grace of God, and of
of of that that you are in hell

446
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:52,199
when you sin, meaning that you
you you make your life into hell by

447
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,840
sinning. So in that situation,
even if you I think, you take

448
00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:59,480
you know, theology out of it, If you take, if you it

449
00:51:59,559 --> 00:52:05,599
could be an atheist could say,
yeah, I see how I feel when

450
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,920
I'm hurtful to others. I see
how that has a blowback repercussion effect that

451
00:52:10,039 --> 00:52:14,719
causes when I hurt someone, it
causes them to be more inclined to hurt

452
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,000
someone, and therefore it devolves and
moves us in a negative direction. As

453
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,159
opposed to a direction where people can
thrive and be happy. So I don't

454
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,880
know that again. I mean,
I think when we start with a religious

455
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,079
principle, it's always much much easier. I think whatever that religion would be

456
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,440
is, it's because it's a it's
irref you can't argue with it. Like

457
00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:37,400
I can't possibly say to you,
what would you accept as proof that God

458
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,840
doesn't exist? Like there's no answer
to that for you, I assume.

459
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,559
So there's a couple of assumptions that
I'm sure you guys have already seen here

460
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:57,559
unproven sort of assumptions or not demonstrated
yet, assumptions that somehow theology is antithetical

461
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,800
to rationality and reasoning, which is
just simply not true. Of course,

462
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:07,039
we don't think that, but everybody, everybody post Enlightenment and post Schleiermacher,

463
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:15,079
post Kant, they have thought the
world has thought that reason is antithetical to

464
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:21,880
revelation or to theology. And we
of course have a totally different paradigm that

465
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:30,280
the only case for reasoning is theology. The only grounding or justification for reason

466
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:34,880
itself is divine revelation and theology.
So it's flipped backwards. The way that

467
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,679
most people think of it, and
I'm sure you perceptive, beautiful Jason Elysis

468
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:46,119
chad Nerds in the audience also recognized
the assumption that society can choose these things

469
00:53:47,079 --> 00:53:52,880
to work and for the good to
work, to do what the good for

470
00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:57,880
the for the common good, the
good of what what is that? Because

471
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,159
now we're in the domain of ethics
and meta physics and so ultimately what we're

472
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:07,960
going to see is that the account
given is utilitarian. And I'm not knocking

473
00:54:07,039 --> 00:54:12,039
people who think that. I mean, that's just sort of the you know,

474
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,199
it's the zeitgeist we live in,
it's the air we breathe is utilitarian

475
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:22,519
ethics and other things kind of connected
to that, like consequentialist ethics. Right,

476
00:54:23,079 --> 00:54:28,679
these are all you know, post
atheist, post Enlightenment, post revolutionary

477
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:36,280
thought versions of ethics connected to things
like empiricism, connected to Jeremy Bentham,

478
00:54:36,639 --> 00:54:42,760
connected to David Hume. Right,
what's our ethic going to be if there's

479
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,400
no God, Well, we'll just
pick the most maximum amount of happiness for

480
00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:53,960
the maximum number of people, and
that becomes the good of course, happiness.

481
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:58,840
What does that mean is that pleasure
of principle does that mean, if

482
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,239
we're in a rat maze where uh, you know, the rats hit the

483
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:06,320
coom button and they're all just comed
out, but they're happy all day.

484
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,679
Well, that's the perfect utilitarian society
if we're talking about a happiness principle.

485
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:19,239
Right. So it's just it's just
moving the can back a step. I

486
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,519
love mixing up my metaphors. Right, it's kicking the problem down the road.

487
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:29,719
It's moving the can back a step. Right, So it's just one

488
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:35,400
step back. But I think a
lot of people who are educated, very

489
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:43,679
intelligent people like mister Sexton, they
see things like the good, an appeal

490
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,440
to the common good, an appeal
to what works or what is pragmatic or

491
00:55:47,519 --> 00:55:52,000
utilitarian. They see that as kind
of like a higher level appeal, but

492
00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:57,599
they ignore or they don't want to
get into the next logical question, which

493
00:55:57,679 --> 00:56:00,320
is, well, what is the
good? What is it mean to have

494
00:56:00,519 --> 00:56:07,199
utility? Utility for what? I
assume you have faith in God and proof

495
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:13,880
denies faith to some degree. So
I don't I understand the point of view

496
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:20,159
you're you're positing. I just don't
I think there is secular morality. I

497
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:25,199
think that it is as difficult to
articulate as your reasons for believing in the

498
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:34,440
existence of God. It's well,
of course, the fact that there is

499
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,320
secular morality was not the question.
We know that there is secular morality.

500
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,960
The question is as I posed already, But yeah, but how do we

501
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,800
give an account for it and justify
the belief in that? And so the

502
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:52,079
response was, well, theology is
difficult, and given an account for any

503
00:56:52,199 --> 00:56:57,679
kind of ethic is difficult, but
secular ethics exists. Yeah, but that

504
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,360
wasn't in question. The question was
the justification for its existence. That there

505
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,920
is something in you that knows what
is right and knows what is wrong.

506
00:57:06,039 --> 00:57:08,719
You have a moral instinct or you
have And again, instinct is a problematic

507
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,400
word, right, Like Neil Postman
was one of my mentors at n YU,

508
00:57:12,559 --> 00:57:15,400
said, you know, instinct is
just the word we put on for

509
00:57:15,519 --> 00:57:17,679
something we don't understand. So it's
the equivalent of saying, you know,

510
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,360
hey, why didn't the sun rise
today? Oh, because today's sun does

511
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:27,079
not rise day and accepting that as
a logical argument. But I do think

512
00:57:27,159 --> 00:57:30,119
there is something within all of us, and whether someone wants to call that

513
00:57:30,239 --> 00:57:32,360
God's light or whether someone wants to
just call that a moral sense. I

514
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,400
think that exists and that can be
a compass point for people, just like

515
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:42,159
faith in God. That was longer
than a minute. Sorry, Well,

516
00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:45,320
it's true that people have a moral
sense, but why why would there be

517
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,280
an innate moral sense? And I'm
sure he would say, well, it's

518
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,280
just an evolutionary kind of thing that
developed to help society, you know,

519
00:57:53,239 --> 00:57:58,880
make it and move, you know, have the next generation, right,

520
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,400
because if you don't have these more
norms, then the species won't survive.

521
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:06,400
Yeah, but that doesn't give an
account for whether it's right or wrong.

522
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,800
I mean, maybe it's bad for
us to have that. Maybe we shouldn't

523
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:13,840
have a moral center. Maybe having
a moral center is what holds us back

524
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,079
from conquering and taking over. Right, maybe we give a Nietzschean response.

525
00:58:19,079 --> 00:58:21,840
Now I'm not saying that he believes
that, but I'm saying that, you

526
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:28,519
see how already it's just completely kind
of blown past the question that was asked,

527
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:31,800
Can I get can I be the
one that's in between both of them?

528
00:58:36,159 --> 00:58:40,880
Sandwich way, I don't really absolutely
get in the center there to give

529
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:51,960
you the okay, well, in
this relationship, because because section is going

530
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,760
to be doing a show with me, soon. By the way, I'm

531
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,960
gonna have to give him ship because
he's a left winger and I'm gonna I'm

532
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:04,079
gonna call him the Molina and you
the destiny of the relationship here anyway,

533
00:59:04,159 --> 00:59:10,639
go ahead. I was just kidd
I'm so I'm more masculine of the two.

534
00:59:12,679 --> 00:59:20,280
I know, I'm not saying something
anyways. I for those of you

535
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,760
who don't know, my fourth book
is actually titled Religion, and it's about

536
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:27,639
the confluence of red pill and religion
really intersexual dynamics, right and goes into

537
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,440
political stuff, social stuff, you
know, religious stuff as well. And

538
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:37,559
so the way that I sort of
approach this is that I look at it

539
00:59:37,639 --> 00:59:40,599
in the sense of how like red
pill is the theory and like game is

540
00:59:40,639 --> 00:59:45,480
the practice, and really that's really
game dynamic or like game theory, game

541
00:59:45,559 --> 00:59:47,880
game dynamics is what it is.
And so if you've got if you've got

542
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,920
hypothesis and you have theory, and
then you take that and you put it

543
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:52,800
into practice, like people always say, well, the the red pill is

544
00:59:55,000 --> 01:00:00,000
so just to kind of set the
stage to where that's going, he's going

545
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:05,159
to give a utilitarian account of ethics
as well. So that's where he's going

546
01:00:05,199 --> 01:00:09,760
with his response. All it's big
on explanations, it's big on like rolla

547
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,159
lose. He talks and talks and
he just all he does is talk and

548
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,480
it's all theory and he just you
know, but that's because it has to

549
01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:22,239
be comprehensive. And then there's putting
that those ideas into practice. And I

550
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:27,199
think that when I look at things
like say like religion, for example,

551
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,559
I see that as a sort of
a confluence of best practices that has to

552
01:00:30,639 --> 01:00:36,199
be based on a certain foundational lyricre
truth or a hypothesis like this is what

553
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,639
we believe and therefore this is the
doctrine, this is the path of the

554
01:00:38,679 --> 01:00:43,679
practice that we put it into and
one is incomplete without the other. So

555
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,280
you can't just have nothing but like, oh, this is just the way

556
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,239
we do it, and we don't
question why we do it this way.

557
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:52,119
It's you know, I forget what
the saying is like tradition is just like

558
01:00:52,639 --> 01:00:57,239
truth that nobody remembers why we do
these things anymore kind of thing. And

559
01:00:58,519 --> 01:01:02,480
I think that when you're looking at
at from James perspective, here is like

560
01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:07,360
you don't necessarily have to have sort
of this like religious or this moral uh

561
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:12,519
foundation to actually live a quote unquote
ethical, moral morality, whatever, a

562
01:01:12,639 --> 01:01:17,320
good life, to practice best practices
that work for him. Like you said,

563
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,719
you know, I murder as many
people as I want to, which

564
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,199
is a zero, because that's best
practices for James. Right. But we

565
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,719
can also say, well there's a
moral foundation for that, and that might

566
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,000
that might also be true as well. But really what happens is you're looking

567
01:01:30,039 --> 01:01:35,639
at the best Like religion tends to
be best practices, social conventions are best

568
01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:38,480
practices. You can even think in
terms of like political ideology, Well,

569
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:42,800
this is what we conservatism or progressivism. They both think the right. They

570
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,000
both think that those are the best
practices and that everybody should adopt those things

571
01:01:45,239 --> 01:01:49,679
so they can live a more productive, more and more full or more unquote

572
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:53,199
happier content life as a result of
sticking to those practices. But those practices

573
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:59,320
have to be based on something that
is like a good predictive framework. I

574
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,800
think, like in praxeological terms,
we would say, well, we have

575
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,840
enough data here that we can build
a predictive framework around that. Okay,

576
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,079
if we can do that, what
are the best practices according to this predictive

577
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:10,880
framework? It doesn't have to be
one hundred percent accurate, but it has

578
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:15,079
to be eighty nine percent accurate.
It has to be accurate enough so that

579
01:02:15,159 --> 01:02:19,480
we can actually use this and make
it make it useful to people as opposed

580
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:25,320
to just sitting around. By the
way, props of Jimbob who just kind

581
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:30,760
of like kept sipping the bourbon or
whatever, it was getting more and more

582
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:35,559
buzzed. So like by the end
of this conversation, and by the way,

583
01:02:35,639 --> 01:02:37,519
Jim Bob actually does jump in because
I get really tired. This is

584
01:02:37,559 --> 01:02:44,679
like the third hour of blabbern on
here meet me me yapping. So I

585
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,320
kind of checked out and I handed
off to Jimbob, and he did really

586
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:51,639
good asking questions. By the way, so Jimbob has more and more grounded

587
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:58,679
himself in good argumentation, and so
he's he's getting pretty good at invading TikTok,

588
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,239
especially when he when Jim does his
TikTok invasions, they're quite humorous.

589
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:07,039
But Jimbob got more and more buzzed
and was just kind of like just it

590
01:03:07,159 --> 01:03:10,239
was like buzzed apologetics. It was
a lot of fun. So if you

591
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:14,599
do want to watch this full thing, it's a three hour conversation we had.

592
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:19,400
You can go watch it over here
on my rock fin there it is

593
01:03:19,519 --> 01:03:23,079
right there. Jimba was a hoot
that whole day. Absolutely who do you

594
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:30,360
who? And so then Roller will
finish up this comment about utilitarian ethics,

595
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,960
and then I think it's either Mer
or James next, and then we'll move

596
01:03:35,039 --> 01:03:37,119
on to other topics after this,
and just you know, navel gazing and

597
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:42,079
just contemplating a theory all the time. It's just like if you have those

598
01:03:42,119 --> 01:03:45,519
two separated, if you have just
doctrine, you have just practice, and

599
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:50,159
you have just theory, and you
have just you know, just like the

600
01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:52,880
basis kind of like the whether it's
your your scripture or whether it's the religion

601
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:58,480
itself whatever, is like the motivating
you know, source of truth. Though,

602
01:03:58,559 --> 01:04:01,480
if you if you separate the two
of those, then you have sort

603
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:05,039
of this disconnect because one informs the
other and it's sort of this circle.

604
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:10,960
And I think just from a logistical
like a logic based system, you kind

605
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,239
of have to have those two.
So when I look at religion, I

606
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,280
look at it as sort of a
list of best practices. Now you can

607
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,119
add faith to that, and you
can add metaphysics to that, and you

608
01:04:18,159 --> 01:04:23,519
can add metaphorical truth to that as
well, but that doesn't necessarily take away

609
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:28,039
from the core objective truth that it
might necessarily be based on. So my

610
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:30,920
question you guys, is, are
you familiar with the concept of metaphorical truth,

611
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,320
because metaphorical truth, I'm just gonna
see if I can paraphrase Brett Weinstein

612
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:39,960
here, there's a saying or there's
this old folks tale that says, like

613
01:04:40,119 --> 01:04:45,800
a porcupine can shoot its quills.
Right, well, porkepine can't actually shoot

614
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,920
its quills, but you want the
kids to stay away from the goddamn porcupine

615
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,159
because you get a porcupine needle in
you, it's gonna hurt like hell.

616
01:04:50,599 --> 01:04:55,480
So it's better for you to believe
in the metaphorical truth that if you get

617
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,239
close enough to a porcupine, it's
gonna shoot its quills at you. Objectively

618
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,000
speaking, that's incorrect and not true, Like all snakes are poisonous, they're

619
01:05:02,079 --> 01:05:06,719
not, but it's best to behave
and it's best practices to believe that the

620
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,960
porcupine can shoot its quills. It's
a similar thing for like, well,

621
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,480
we don't eat pork, we don't
eat shellfish because because the Lord said,

622
01:05:14,559 --> 01:05:17,000
no, no, unclean animals.
No, whether you're Muslim or you're Jewish

623
01:05:17,079 --> 01:05:21,039
or whatever, don't eat these animals
because you'll get treaconosis and die. Well,

624
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:26,719
now we know that we can cure
pork and bacon taste good, and

625
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:32,559
so we now know what the objective, like latent purpose of that particular prohibition

626
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,880
was. So you're looking at the
truth versus the best practice, which is

627
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,320
don't eat these animals because you'll probably
die if you eat these animals. So

628
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,920
I look at it in the sense
of like, there's the core truth and

629
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,920
there's a core hypothesis, and then
there's also the best practices that go with

630
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:53,000
it. Does that make sense?
It does? Yeah, I mean,

631
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:57,039
listen, I get it. I'm
interested. I'm interested in hearing Jay's thoughts

632
01:05:57,119 --> 01:06:00,639
on that. Yeah, I would
say, yeah, I think there are

633
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:06,000
metaphorical truths that you know, religion, allegory, symbolism conveyed to us.

634
01:06:06,199 --> 01:06:12,719
Definitely, I think. But I'm
making a more precise point to what James

635
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,880
was saying when he talked about the
again, the pragmatic basis for why he

636
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,800
might choose the ethics of the ten
Commandment. So I understand the motivation and

637
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:25,559
understand why you would say it helps
you to flourish, and it's just not

638
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:30,039
all the other baggage isn't needed.
But I was making a more specific argument

639
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,039
that is in the domain of logic, which is that anytime we assert something

640
01:06:34,159 --> 01:06:39,760
or believe that something exists, then
and this is specific to philosophy, so

641
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,559
I'm not trying to be like a
philosophy douchebag, but kind of like you

642
01:06:42,639 --> 01:06:44,719
know, if I asked you a
law question, you would say, well,

643
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:46,480
in the domain of law, he
kind of got to do the rules

644
01:06:46,519 --> 01:06:50,920
of law in the same way.
In the domain of philosophy or logic,

645
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:55,920
there's certain there's laws and rules that
kind of have to be followed, like

646
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,679
the laws of debate, for example. So even though we're not in a

647
01:06:58,719 --> 01:07:02,239
formal debate, even in an informal
exchange, there's still kind of It's I

648
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,280
think the game of chess, right, there's laws to the chess board,

649
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,800
and I can't come and like just
flip it over and say, ah,

650
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,199
I won because I flipped it over. Right, there's laws that dictate it,

651
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,320
which I would argue are kind of
invariant, their immaterial. They are

652
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:19,360
the case. So any exchange has
to follow these rules, these laws,

653
01:07:19,679 --> 01:07:24,719
this would be the laws of logic. These would be things like informal fallacies.

654
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,800
Right, I can't just come to
the debate and s apout a bunch

655
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,440
of fallacies and say, ha I
won no, I'm not following the rules.

656
01:07:30,519 --> 01:07:32,920
So likewise, if the question arises
about say, ethics, and what

657
01:07:33,079 --> 01:07:36,519
are these ethical values? Where are
they? How do we derive them?

658
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:42,800
What's the justification for them? That's
a very specific kind of philosophical term and

659
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,880
argument that anything that we posit that
exists or that we believe in, we

660
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,480
need not just any reasons, but
we actually need good reasons for why we

661
01:07:50,599 --> 01:07:55,719
believe in them. So my argument
was that morals in the Ten Commandments,

662
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,760
these kinds of things that they make
sense in a world where there is a

663
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:03,639
god. There not a god,
even though you might choose I like how

664
01:08:04,079 --> 01:08:08,760
I like how Jimbob is basically on
a boat and he's just he's he's rocking

665
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:13,199
more and more like the more whiskey
that goes into Jimbob, the more Jimbob's

666
01:08:13,239 --> 01:08:17,760
like about to tip over. Everybody
in the check getting tipsy, everybody in

667
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:24,840
the chack gaining tipsy. Jimbob is
getting tipsy right right, watch, I'm

668
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,479
watching Jimbob not even listening to my
argus then, for you know, subjective

669
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:35,159
pragmatic motives, there's not really any
basis or epistemic justification for believing in those

670
01:08:35,199 --> 01:08:38,720
things or saying that they exist.
So you might like them, you might

671
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:43,840
prefer them, but what's the actual
argument in the sense of like justified true

672
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,720
belief, you know, grounding for
why you would believe in the ethics And

673
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:51,920
if it's if it doesn't meet those
criterion, then what happens in philosophy is

674
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:57,039
that we say it's really just an
unjustified assertion and it doesn't count as an

675
01:08:57,159 --> 01:08:59,800
argument. Does that? Does that
make sense? Yeah, it totally makes

676
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,119
sense. And I so so I
brought out what I thought was kind of

677
01:09:03,119 --> 01:09:09,159
the clearest, most precise argument that
I could make about what I was trying

678
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:15,199
to say, and jim Bob's over
there just kind of like enjoying the buzz,

679
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:19,680
right, that's just cracking me up. But I still don't think James

680
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:24,640
really well. I think he understood
where I was going because he says something

681
01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:30,000
like, oh, you're going towards
uh, you know, Plato and the

682
01:09:30,159 --> 01:09:33,760
dialogues of Mino and all the dollar
with the Socratic dollogue mino or whatever.

683
01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:36,600
U. So I don't remember any
of stuff, which is fine. I

684
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:41,159
mean it was an impromptu discussion anyway. It wasn't like a planned debate.

685
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:46,199
But it looks like the stream is
I might have to switch to the La

686
01:09:46,319 --> 01:09:56,159
n connection because it's lagging. So
let's see a theological standpoint. But over

687
01:09:56,279 --> 01:10:01,920
the span of human history, there
have been thousands of gods worshiped by societies,

688
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:08,479
and so any one of them would
say theirs is the one true God

689
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:13,840
and the moral authority that they,
you know, claim their God has asserted

690
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,079
in whatever manner, whether it's the
Quran or the Bible or the Talmud or

691
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:24,680
you know, the damapata or whatever
thing somebody says that they're I'm up pulling

692
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:29,239
that damapata over here. I'm sitting
on my I'm sitting on the patty read

693
01:10:29,319 --> 01:10:38,640
my damapata, smoking on some pata, right, damapata. I mean what,

694
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,720
I don't even know what that is. But I'm gonna look dumb because

695
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,039
it's like, no, I don't
know the world religions. Actually I'm not.

696
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,760
I'm not a scholar world religion religions
so I think that. But yeah,

697
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:54,640
I mean, this was a really
bad argument too, because and I

698
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,159
think I pulled, I pull I
point this out in the next response,

699
01:10:58,239 --> 01:11:02,279
I'm like, well, the fact
that i'm to people disagree over something is

700
01:11:02,359 --> 01:11:06,159
irrelevant to what's turned bols right,
that's actually a fallacy. So what we're

701
01:11:06,239 --> 01:11:11,279
learning again is that, like I
think somebody in the chat said, you

702
01:11:11,359 --> 01:11:15,039
guys are basically just talking two different
languages pretty much, right. So there's

703
01:11:15,079 --> 01:11:17,319
a little bit more a couple more
minutes, and then we'll we'll move on

704
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:23,119
to to the fake and the grays. There is the is the basis of

705
01:11:23,239 --> 01:11:30,399
their their God's voice being heard,
and the underlying logic upon which their morality

706
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:34,880
is built. I just think that's
I mean that you know, that's saying,

707
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:39,159
well, it's built on something,
but it's built onto something so amorphous

708
01:11:39,319 --> 01:11:45,880
and so totally unfalsifiable that okay,
like it's it's does it's that it's not

709
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:47,159
really built on it. It sounds
like it's built on something, but it's

710
01:11:47,199 --> 01:11:50,760
not actually built on something. I
mean, one of my favorite you know,

711
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:56,479
I'm not I wouldn't consider myself an
atheist, but one of my favorite

712
01:11:56,520 --> 01:12:01,079
things that I think it was a
debate between Stephen Colbert and Ricky Gervais where

713
01:12:01,159 --> 01:12:04,840
Ricky Gervas said something along the lines
of, well, you know, there

714
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:11,319
have been thousands of gods throughout human
history, and you believe in one of

715
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:15,079
them and don't believe in twoy nine
hundred and ninety nine of them, and

716
01:12:15,199 --> 01:12:19,079
so we just disagree about one.
Like we just disagree about one god,

717
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,960
we're in agreement on the other thousands
of gods, you know. And so

718
01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:28,399
I think that's where we get into
Those are multiple fallacies at work here,

719
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:31,439
right, Because first of all,
it's kind of a it's a form of

720
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:35,840
appeal to the masses, right,
as if the fact that a lot of

721
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:43,319
people disagree about something therefore makes the
position itself false. Just transfer this to

722
01:12:43,399 --> 01:12:46,199
anything else that's not controversial, right. Imagine if we said, okay,

723
01:12:46,239 --> 01:12:51,800
a lot of people disagree over tuplusu
equaling four, would their disagreement or the

724
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:57,079
number of people with that disagreement have
anything to do with whether tuplessuit equals for

725
01:12:57,359 --> 01:13:00,960
no, of course not. So
that's one element of this there Also,

726
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:06,039
it might be a version of parts
whole fallacy too, because the argument is

727
01:13:06,079 --> 01:13:13,920
basically saying all of the things in
this class of things are false, and

728
01:13:14,039 --> 01:13:18,439
so I'm just saying that one more
thing is false. But the question itself

729
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:24,159
is what's true and false? So
you can't from the outset assume that none

730
01:13:24,199 --> 01:13:28,039
of those things exist, and therefore
the thing that's in question, I'm just

731
01:13:28,079 --> 01:13:30,840
gonna include it in the class of
things that don't exist. Right. It's

732
01:13:31,079 --> 01:13:35,159
begging the question because that's the thing
in question. And it also assumes that

733
01:13:35,279 --> 01:13:41,359
all theistic positions are equivalent. They're
not. I mean, I mean,

734
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:46,920
it's like saying, I mean,
I could do the same type of argument

735
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:55,880
with atheism. Most atheists have bad
argumentation. Therefore, I'm just going one

736
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:00,520
step further and rejecting all of atheism. Right, would an atheist accept that?

737
01:14:01,039 --> 01:14:04,760
Of course not. That's not an
that's a non sequitur. You can't

738
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,640
say it's all true because there's a
lot of bad atheists and bad argumentation.

739
01:14:09,199 --> 01:14:13,079
Yeah, exactly. That's why what
you said is a fallacy. It's not.

740
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,359
It's a terrible argument. It doesn't
work. A challenge here is that

741
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:20,079
it you know, the first premise, we're not coming from the same first

742
01:14:20,119 --> 01:14:26,800
premise. That's true, But I
would argue that's a fallacy, right,

743
01:14:27,399 --> 01:14:30,479
But what value would that argument have? No, I'm saying what you argued

744
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,920
is relying on a fallacy, right, Well, and I would argue what

745
01:14:34,079 --> 01:14:40,800
you're arguing is relying on a fallacy, which is that there is any omnipotent

746
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:47,159
Yeah. First of all, what
he argued actually was a fallacy, and

747
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:51,560
what I argued, even if he
disagrees it wasn't a fallacy as I point

748
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:58,720
out, or basic core concept of
faith that should be given any value for

749
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:01,319
the purposes of an argument. Well, what fallacy would that be? The

750
01:15:01,399 --> 01:15:09,960
existence of an omnipotent creator deity from
which morality stems. Yeah, that's not

751
01:15:10,079 --> 01:15:15,199
a fallacy, right, So that's
a position. A fallacy is a violation

752
01:15:15,399 --> 01:15:17,159
of the laws, rules of thought, and logic. Right. So there's

753
01:15:17,239 --> 01:15:23,680
formal and informal we're talking about here, informal fallacies. So you might think

754
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:29,520
that my belief in God's existence is
false or in metaphysical principles or whatever,

755
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:34,359
But that's not a fallacy. Fallacy
is things like ad hominin too quoke way

756
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:42,199
right, affirming the consequent Those are
fallacies. And his argument was a type

757
01:15:42,199 --> 01:15:45,439
of appeal to box popular appeal to
the masses, appeal to numbers, appeal

758
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:50,600
to you know, ninety nine percent
of gods are false, so therefore the

759
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:56,239
other percent is false. It's a
form of appeal to masters. That's a

760
01:15:56,279 --> 01:16:02,479
fallacy. But nothing that I said
was actually a fallacy. And maybe maybe

761
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:06,199
I did make a argue a fallacy, or all right, maybe I did

762
01:16:06,359 --> 01:16:13,720
argue fallaciously. But he confuses fallacy
with he thinks that a fallacy is just

763
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,960
a position that's wrong. No,
that's not, again, showing that people

764
01:16:17,079 --> 01:16:21,319
don't know what justification is. They
don't know what the laws of logic are.

765
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,800
Well, that's not a fallacy.
You might think it's false, but

766
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:30,239
I'm saying specific fallacies. Yours was
an appeal to the fact that a lot

767
01:16:30,279 --> 01:16:33,279
of people disagree. Right, So
it's a kind of a it's a formative

768
01:16:33,319 --> 01:16:38,439
appeal to the masses, which is
a fallacy. But we haven't just we

769
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:42,119
haven't determined yet whether God exists or
doesn't exist. But even if he doesn't

770
01:16:42,159 --> 01:16:45,520
exist, it's not a fallacy.
I might have a bad argument, but

771
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,479
my belief in God itself isn't a
fallacy, right God, I haven't done

772
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:54,159
classical philosophical argument a long time,
but there be no math on this test.

773
01:16:54,359 --> 01:17:00,600
Yeah. And the reason I stop, Yeah, I mean, let's

774
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:05,079
think about this, like, uh, like FDA says in the chat if

775
01:17:05,159 --> 01:17:10,199
nine and ninety nine, people believe
that there's a different answer to tuplus two

776
01:17:10,199 --> 01:17:14,079
equals four, And I say,
well, I'm just gonna go one step

777
01:17:14,199 --> 01:17:20,800
further and say that I reject all
arithmetic because almost everyone right believes in the

778
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:25,880
two plus two doesn't equal four.
You see how silly it would be.

779
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:30,800
Right, So it's confusing categories.
It's resting on a combination of different types

780
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:42,560
of fallacies. And it's also not
understanding that the difference between having a belief

781
01:17:43,199 --> 01:17:46,880
and giving arguments for that belief.
Right, So having a belief is not

782
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:53,520
a fallacy. Fallacy would be giving
bad arguments for that belief. Yeah.

783
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:57,880
Look the reason, and there's gonna
be it's a crucible. It's gonna be

784
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:00,800
a little bit of debate, but
it is. Yeah, it could and

785
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:04,840
forth. The reason I stopped doing
those kinds of arguments is that it felt

786
01:18:05,199 --> 01:18:13,079
like it was a way of trying
to make something sound much more mathematically precise

787
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:16,199
than what it would be if you
actually were just speaking of it in a

788
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:18,760
I mean, look, I think
we're understanding fail as a word comes to

789
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:24,279
take its place, right, that's
Wickenstein. So I get it, like

790
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:28,880
I understand from a I guess I
could study up on my classical philosophy and

791
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,840
we could try to have that discussion. But I think ultimately, like matters

792
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:38,119
of faith, if it's your core
concept and we we don't agree on that,

793
01:18:39,199 --> 01:18:44,520
you're going to have a difficult time
we're going to have it. Which

794
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:49,399
he's actually correct there, which is
why we argue presubpositions and transcendent augmentation because

795
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:56,760
ultimately it does come down to our
governing paradigm positions, right, our worldview,

796
01:18:57,319 --> 01:19:00,840
our fundamental beliefs in ethics, epistemology, metaphors. That's what it comes

797
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:05,159
down to, and that's why we
end up debating paradigms and world views.

798
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:12,159
So that party actually is totally correct
about and I think he realized that if

799
01:19:12,239 --> 01:19:15,239
this this conversation was going to continue, it would have to be you know,

800
01:19:15,399 --> 01:19:18,479
going into that in that in that
domain, into the paradigm level.

801
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,920
And we were already like almost three
hours into it at this point, so

802
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:28,800
we ended up calling it a night, But Jim Bob did continue on interacting

803
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:32,920
with and debating with Rollo, asking
questions about not a formal debate, just

804
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:39,279
kind of back and forth exchange about
you know, utilitarian ethics and so forth,

805
01:19:39,359 --> 01:19:41,199
and what is the good? And
how do we know the good?

806
01:19:41,279 --> 01:19:45,960
So you watch the rest of that
conversation there. I had a lot of

807
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:53,479
people saying, hey, comment on
what was it Ben Shapiro. I can't

808
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:59,960
imagine this being a debate that goes
very far. But I've had probably fIF

809
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:09,560
ffty people say what about cosmic skeptic
and Ben Shapiro? So is there a

810
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:21,000
highlights of this? I mean,
let's try There's an eleven minute video about

811
01:20:21,079 --> 01:20:26,279
free will and then there's a full
let's I guess, let's try this.

812
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:33,039
Let's see what happens here. I
don't know if I'll be able to stomach

813
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:39,479
this whole thing, right, I
mean, I feel like this is going

814
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:45,399
to be tough. But we'll listen
to some of it because so many people

815
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:50,039
requested it. Let's hear and let's
see if the argumentation is any good.

816
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:57,359
I don't have high hopes. Maybe
I'll be pleasantly surprised. You know,

817
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:00,399
the thing with Ben Shapiro is that
he has a history I think of owning

818
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:09,760
the college libs, which is like
anybody with any philosophical knowledge could own any

819
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:14,479
college lib right. I mean that's
like super low hanging fruit. I'm not

820
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:19,079
saying it is totally pointless to go
after low hanging fruit. But has Ben

821
01:21:19,119 --> 01:21:25,000
Shapiro actually debated anyone substantial that I'm
not aware of? It? May?

822
01:21:25,079 --> 01:21:30,520
I think maybe Wiam Lane Craig or
something. I guess that counts. But

823
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:38,039
we all know that all these people
very selectively choose who they will debate because

824
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:41,640
there's a lot at stake, I
think, right, I mean, I

825
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:45,680
think Ben Shapiro is big enough a
name that even if he lost a debater

826
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:50,239
or to it's not going to do
anything right. But for a lot of

827
01:21:50,319 --> 01:21:55,680
people, you know, people are
when are you going to debate Sam Harris?

828
01:21:56,000 --> 01:22:00,159
Where are you going to? The
Dick Dawkins that will never have up

829
01:22:00,159 --> 01:22:01,720
and dummy? Like those people are
never going to have a debate with me.

830
01:22:02,279 --> 01:22:05,279
I would have that debate, but
it's just not ever gonna happen.

831
01:22:05,279 --> 01:22:10,079
There's way too much for them to
lose and absolutely nothing for them to gain,

832
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:14,119
right, Because I'm this is still
you know, we were still on

833
01:22:14,279 --> 01:22:17,920
the come up over here, right, We're not big time. We're still

834
01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:26,079
our star is still rising, dog, So what's the point of debating a

835
01:22:26,159 --> 01:22:30,640
dude with one hundred thousand followers if
you've got you know, two million,

836
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:33,960
five million, six million, whatever. There's no advantage to it. So

837
01:22:34,039 --> 01:22:41,840
it's like people have no idea how
things actually work. Right now, It

838
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:49,880
did actually work when people asked Matt
dollahunty like a hundred times or more over

839
01:22:50,199 --> 01:22:56,920
a span of three or four years, right, eventually he did agree to

840
01:22:57,000 --> 01:23:00,920
a debate, and the same thing
happened with stuff On al in you so

841
01:23:01,039 --> 01:23:05,039
many people ask stuff On to do
a debate that it actually just happened,

842
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:13,520
right, So over time, I
think people will maybe agree to it if

843
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:17,800
you're kind of in the same like
rough domain, right, like Stefan had

844
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:23,159
a much larger audience, But we're
kind of in the same you know,

845
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:30,479
adjacent circles of argumentation and debate.
I don't know anybody in cosmic skeptics circles.

846
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,239
I don't know anybody in Ben Shapiro
circles. So I mean this kind

847
01:23:33,239 --> 01:23:36,760
of a debate would never happen.
I mean it would be a very long

848
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:42,399
long shot, right, Yes,
if there is no God, there is

849
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:46,199
no free will, But I think
that's because of the truth of the latter

850
01:23:46,239 --> 01:23:49,159
of those statements that I suppose the
biggest criticism that I've made of you in

851
01:23:49,359 --> 01:23:55,239
a video response that I made to
the atheist illusion, and this show does

852
01:23:55,319 --> 01:23:58,840
seem to have an extraordinary capacity for
putting me face to face with people that

853
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,239
I've been talking smack about online.
So thanks again. By the way,

854
01:24:01,239 --> 01:24:03,520
I should say it's a great video
and neverybody should watch it. If they

855
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:06,760
haven't, well, I'm going to
put that, put that in the description.

856
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:09,800
I think that that glowing. So
wait a minute, if I talk

857
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:12,600
smack about Ben Shapiro, does that
mean does that mean I'll get a face

858
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:15,399
to face debate? What if I
did the whole debate? What if I

859
01:24:15,399 --> 01:24:16,840
did the whole debate doing the impression
of Vin Spirol, Like, what if

860
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:19,199
I did the whole bait that way? I think then it would be very

861
01:24:19,239 --> 01:24:23,640
logical, be very plausible. Definitely. Could I do an impression of Vin

862
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,439
Spiro to his face? And then
what I get on Daily Wire? Is

863
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:30,920
that something that we could guarantee all
this happened, Dawson. The principal disagreement

864
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:32,079
that I think I had with you, Ben, is that there was a

865
01:24:32,119 --> 01:24:36,399
subtle or not so subtle implication in
my view that yes, with no God,

866
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:40,479
there's no free will, but somehow
having God can solve this problem.

867
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:43,159
I mean, you said a moment
ago that you don't think you can establish

868
01:24:43,239 --> 01:24:47,119
God's existence through reason alone. But
assuming that you do believe in the existence

869
01:24:47,119 --> 01:24:54,800
of pretty well, wouldn't you love
to see Alex O'Connor come up against Tag.

870
01:24:55,039 --> 01:24:58,760
I mean, this guy would completely
collapse into a soy puddle, which

871
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:00,720
he already is. I mean,
I think he's given up veganism. Remember

872
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:05,439
when he was like all championing veganism. I think he was chosen, by

873
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:10,159
the way to be kind of the
Dawkins successor. I think they did a

874
01:25:10,239 --> 01:25:15,760
podcast together, so you know,
Richard was like a succession you my child

875
01:25:17,119 --> 01:25:25,720
be success on right, So Dawkins
has an offspring gobblin here in this character.

876
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:30,640
But first of all, again,
this guy would melt at Tag.

877
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:35,039
He wouldn't last five minutes with that
kind of an argument. Be so with

878
01:25:35,159 --> 01:25:40,199
Ben Shapiro too, by the way, but uh, I'm worried that Ben

879
01:25:40,239 --> 01:25:44,279
Shapiro is not going to bring out
the biggest guns that you can when somebody

880
01:25:44,319 --> 01:25:47,600
says there's no such thing as free
will, because this is the repeat of

881
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:53,159
my debate with JF and we know
how that debate went. Everybody remembers that

882
01:25:53,239 --> 01:25:59,880
one. So if Ben Shapiro's equality
debater, I would look for him to

883
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:06,159
bring that nuclear strength argument out.
But most of these people I hate to.

884
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:13,640
I mean, this is what you
guys are presented with as like high

885
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:17,319
intellectual stuff. And for people that
like you know, father deacon, doctor

886
01:26:17,359 --> 01:26:21,920
and anis or people like myself,
people that studied this stuff in college,

887
01:26:24,079 --> 01:26:28,960
uh and grad school and whatever like
for it's it's funny because and I don't

888
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,039
mean it in an arrogant way,
like this stuff is really low tier.

889
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,680
And I again, okay, that's
why it's popular. Sure, that's why

890
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:42,640
these do So it's it's sad though, because the level of the discourse that

891
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:46,000
happens in the popular sphere is so
low tier that it's really just a disservice

892
01:26:46,079 --> 01:26:50,640
to everybody. And that's the sad
part. But you can't really talk about

893
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:54,279
If you talk about that, then
people think, oh, you're just sulky

894
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:58,479
and jealous. You're jealous about so
calm, or you're jealous a bitch a

895
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:02,560
Piro. It's like, I mean, imagine if you a lot of you

896
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:08,439
guys are musicians out there, right, and you got guitar bros that are

897
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:14,319
like Ingveay Malmstein and they can do
freaking algorithms on their guitar somehow, right,

898
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:19,920
And when they hear you know,
Katie Perry's songs or something like that,

899
01:27:20,279 --> 01:27:25,520
or like a I don't know,
like a Garbage pop song, right,

900
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:30,720
and then the audience, the popular
people are like, that's the most

901
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:36,439
crazy Austin pops on ITLD. And
then the Ingveay Malmstein guitar genius or person

902
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:41,439
is over there and they're like or
the classical train musician is like, that's

903
01:27:41,479 --> 01:27:45,960
not even music, right. Even
if the classically trained person is not that

904
01:27:46,079 --> 01:27:48,680
good at music, they can still
recognize and say this is this is low

905
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:54,000
tier stuff, man. So for
those, it's the same thing in philosophy.

906
01:27:54,079 --> 01:27:57,720
When you look at this stuff,
you hear this stuff, and it's

907
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:02,399
like, it's amazing because like the
level of argument they're having is the kind

908
01:28:02,439 --> 01:28:05,880
of thing that would be had in
a philosophy one on one class. Everybody

909
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:09,880
who's been in a philosophy one on
one class, there's gonna be some like

910
01:28:10,079 --> 01:28:15,479
super low tier debate about determinism and
free will, okay, which is again

911
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,640
it's like what the kind of discussion
you have in philosophy one on one?

912
01:28:18,079 --> 01:28:20,960
But I mean, the public is
just so like out to launch, and

913
01:28:21,119 --> 01:28:27,720
I mean again, it's like the
I'm just gonna say it very simply for

914
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:33,560
you, guys. The people that
are presented to you as sophisticated public intellectuals

915
01:28:34,159 --> 01:28:42,439
are intentionally given to you because it's
low tier stuff. That's what I'm trying

916
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,960
to say to you. And if
you doubt me on that, I can't

917
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:47,479
help you because it's a fact and
you're probably never gonna get it, so

918
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:50,079
just forget it. I think it's
a real thing that you have. Yes,

919
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:55,479
And simultaneously saying that if there is
no God, then free will makes

920
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,279
no sense. Yes, that does
read to me like an argument for God's

921
01:28:58,279 --> 01:29:01,199
existence, such that in order to
to to either say that there is free

922
01:29:01,239 --> 01:29:03,640
will, in order to say that
there is free will, one must believe

923
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:09,439
in God. And that does strike
me. I mean, to slightly curve

924
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:12,760
that, or to kind of stand
off the rough edges there, I would

925
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:15,960
say that the argument I made is
an argument for something extra natural. You

926
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:18,359
can call that God or not God. But but the thing that I make

927
01:29:18,399 --> 01:29:23,039
in the argument for is that you
cannot get from a material of Darwinist universe

928
01:29:23,239 --> 01:29:25,319
to free will. That is not
possible. So I know that the way

929
01:29:25,319 --> 01:29:30,800
you solve that is that you Okay, so I would disagree with this idea

930
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:36,000
that what I call what I called
it is above the natural, Well,

931
01:29:36,039 --> 01:29:40,760
that would be supernatural. It is
whether you call it supernatural or not,

932
01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:47,039
well, that would be supernatural if
it's above the natural. But yes,

933
01:29:47,159 --> 01:29:54,600
so the next So that's a little
weak already. But then to move to

934
01:29:55,000 --> 01:30:00,840
the point that really a Darwinian mechanic, mechanist universe, would you remove the

935
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:04,560
possibility of free will? And this
reduction as a naturalist account, that's correct.

936
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:09,880
So hopefully he can sustain this argument
say that there is no free will.

937
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:13,319
That's right. And what I'm saying
to you is you don't act that

938
01:30:13,399 --> 01:30:17,640
way. I hear this all the
time. People's now that is true.

939
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:24,600
That's actually oftentimes a way that we
argue in TAG is that we point out

940
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:30,279
that a lot of atheist argumentation says
something, they act as if they believe

941
01:30:30,359 --> 01:30:33,960
that, but then they don't actually
believe that. I do think it's a

942
01:30:34,039 --> 01:30:40,800
powerful rhetorical point. It's a good
moral point. But in their worldview,

943
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:44,239
they can just say, yeah,
but I don't have to live according to

944
01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:46,880
I can live contrary to what I
actually think is the case. Right,

945
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:53,640
So I think there's value in calling
this out, but it's limited in its

946
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:58,760
usefulness, and there's a lot stronger
directions that you can go. So I

947
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:01,159
hope he continues to press in a
stronger way. But it does have a

948
01:31:01,199 --> 01:31:04,359
good rhetorical value to point this out. Say, Look, you may say

949
01:31:04,399 --> 01:31:06,600
there's no free will, but you
don't act as though that's the case.

950
01:31:08,399 --> 01:31:11,760
I suppose that I'm just confused as
to what it would look like for somebody

951
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,359
to act as if they believe there
was no free will. I mean,

952
01:31:14,399 --> 01:31:16,039
the very argument that there is no
free will that I subscribe to, at

953
01:31:16,079 --> 01:31:19,640
least one of the various forms that
it takes, is a sort of Schoppenhowry

954
01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:23,279
in view that you can do as
you will, you just can't will what

955
01:31:23,359 --> 01:31:29,000
you will, and that you are
essentially just a bio. Well, I'm

956
01:31:29,239 --> 01:31:33,399
very I doubt that he's actually read
Schopenhauer, but even if that were the

957
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:39,439
case, let's listen to what he
claimed. It was again view that you

958
01:31:39,479 --> 01:31:43,079
can do as you will, you
just can't will what you will. So

959
01:31:43,239 --> 01:31:45,479
I can do what I will,
but I can't will what I will.

960
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:50,560
Well. Number one, Remember he's
a determinist, so you're not actually willing.

961
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:55,119
So he's probably going to bite the
bullet and say that, Yeah,

962
01:31:55,239 --> 01:31:58,640
free will is an illusion, it's
illusory. But I'm going to continue to

963
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:00,840
live in my illusion as if I
have free will. So that's probably what

964
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:05,199
he's going to say. And of
course that's not going to do him any

965
01:32:05,239 --> 01:32:09,039
good because it's not going to give
you any account of ethics at all.

966
01:32:09,359 --> 01:32:12,159
He's gonna have to surrender ethics.
Remember this was a guy who a year

967
01:32:12,239 --> 01:32:18,039
or two ago was vehemently arguing that
veganism was a universal ethical requirement. Remember

968
01:32:18,079 --> 01:32:24,039
that's the goober we're talking about here. Essentially just a biological machine reacting to

969
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:30,159
its internal and evolutionary drives. That's
what's happening. Now, You're just a

970
01:32:30,279 --> 01:32:36,119
biological machine reaction to reacting to internal
drives. Now he's given, on a

971
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:45,800
silver platter a complete dismantling opportunity for
Ben Shapiro. So hopefully Ben Shapiro has

972
01:32:45,079 --> 01:32:51,600
caught that plate of dismantling feasting that
he just offered up, because just like

973
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:58,399
my debate with JF, he doesn't
even understand the atheist makes a fool of

974
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:03,760
himself. He doesn't even see that
all of his argumentation has just been negated

975
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:11,000
and canceled out and disqualified by that
proposition that he just put on a platter,

976
01:33:12,039 --> 01:33:15,359
because now it means that everything he's
saying is no longer an argument,

977
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:23,920
but merely a determined chemical reaction and
process. Did you catch that? Because

978
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:30,560
he now believes in a disteleological universe, a universe with no purpose. Therefore,

979
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:32,640
there is no such thing as truth
in falsehood in a chaotic, meaningless

980
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:39,319
purpose universe, and so therefore none
of his decisions are truth directed. None

981
01:33:39,359 --> 01:33:44,640
of his propositions are truth directed.
They are merely the irrational effects of a

982
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:48,840
chemical reaction and a chaotic process that
is determined. So he did not actually

983
01:33:49,039 --> 01:33:54,840
choose the true over the false,
because there is no choosing and low IQ

984
01:33:55,000 --> 01:34:00,119
atheists like, but he still chose
even if it's determined. He's still well,

985
01:34:00,279 --> 01:34:04,359
he still chose the true. He
didn't choose anything. There's no he,

986
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:12,520
there's no he there choosing, but
still we're determined to true. No

987
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:15,319
he wasn't. There is no he, There is no choosing, There is

988
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:20,000
no true because you've equalized the true
and the false, the good and the

989
01:34:20,039 --> 01:34:28,079
bad, they're all just what is
Call that nihilistic if you like, that's

990
01:34:28,079 --> 01:34:30,760
a separate question. But as to
the question of how this would make one

991
01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:36,840
act actually if it's a nihilistic I
think it's not a separate question. It's

992
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:41,760
the very thing in question, dummy, the idea that this might cause us

993
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:45,319
to sort of lay around in bed
all day or something, the very mechanism

994
01:34:45,399 --> 01:34:48,000
that I think is responsible for eliminating
the possibility of free will, that is,

995
01:34:48,399 --> 01:34:51,399
the drives that make people do what
they do. Like I say,

996
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:55,800
do exactly that make people do what
they do. They make them get out

997
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:57,840
of bed in the morning. Why
do you get out of bed and go

998
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:00,920
and make your breakfast if there's no
free will? So you go and get

999
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:02,800
breakfast because there's no free will and
something is driving you to do that that's

1000
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:05,840
outside of feel control for sure.
So the so to get back to the

1001
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:08,960
nihilism point, which you kind of
put aside, so that that means that

1002
01:35:09,039 --> 01:35:12,119
this conversation is essentially worthless in any
sort of real sense. I mean,

1003
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:16,439
yes, there we go. Ben
Shapiro's corrector. This is the very point

1004
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:21,159
that was made to JF in our
debate. Uh so he's on the on

1005
01:35:21,279 --> 01:35:27,439
the right road here. I'm a
little surprised, not that I think.

1006
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:30,000
I don't think Ben Shapiro is a
dumb person. I think he's a smart

1007
01:35:30,079 --> 01:35:34,399
person. So I'm not saying that
he can't do a good debate. I

1008
01:35:34,439 --> 01:35:39,239
mean we've all heard him owning the
you know, twenty year old college you

1009
01:35:39,319 --> 01:35:45,439
know goobers, which again, anyone
with half a sense of reality and truth

1010
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,359
and and you know an IQ above
you know, room temperature can own those

1011
01:35:49,439 --> 01:35:55,680
people. But he is going down
the right road of argumentation that I would

1012
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:58,920
go down. So he gets a
point for that. Actively, we were

1013
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:02,479
driven here by lutionary biology and environment
to have this conversation. Everybody who's watching

1014
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:09,640
this is driven by evolutionary biology and
environment to have a particular reaction to that

1015
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:13,720
thing, and ever round the cycle
goes. That seems like a very purposeless

1016
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:15,640
life. Maybe that's maybe the Again, I'm drawing from a realm that is

1017
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:25,159
not evolutionarily biologically connected the word purpose
is really teleology obviously has been taken out

1018
01:36:25,199 --> 01:36:30,239
of the realm of science pretty thoroughly
by that's all correct. Ben Shapiro's correct

1019
01:36:30,239 --> 01:36:32,319
here, and this is the right
type of argumentation. When you heard me

1020
01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:38,880
say that the universe is disteleological,
I'm saying the same thing he's saying there.

1021
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:43,119
That's just a fancy term for no
purpose, teleology being the idea of

1022
01:36:43,199 --> 01:36:47,560
purpose in the world, in nature, interactions in the whole, in terms

1023
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:51,319
of the whole universe having a telos
or a purpose. Hence, because God

1024
01:36:51,399 --> 01:36:59,279
created it has meaning, Meaning makes
sense in that universe. Meaning does not

1025
01:36:59,439 --> 01:37:05,239
make sense and is impossible in a
deterministic universe. So this is the right

1026
01:37:05,279 --> 01:37:11,560
direction atheist by many people in the
sciences, although I would argue that again,

1027
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:14,279
most scientists speak in the realm of
teleology literally all the time, and

1028
01:37:14,319 --> 01:37:17,359
they're borrowing language from the language of
teleology, even when they're describing functions in

1029
01:37:17,399 --> 01:37:19,920
particular body parts. Right, the
heart pumps blood in order to keep you

1030
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:26,199
alive. Right, They're constantly using
language that's teleological in nature. The real

1031
01:37:26,359 --> 01:37:29,239
question that I have, and this
is what goes to the question that you

1032
01:37:29,279 --> 01:37:32,359
were asking at the beginning before the
pre question question, which was the good

1033
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:36,159
of religion to society. One of
those goods is people believing that their free

1034
01:37:36,159 --> 01:37:40,640
will matters, and this actually is
a useful thing. So I believe that

1035
01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:45,479
it is deeply important for people in
society to believe that they have the capacity

1036
01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:51,439
to change themselves. Like already from
the outset, the way the debates framed

1037
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:57,840
is kind of a losing proposition.
The debate is not free will and determinism

1038
01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:02,079
the debate. The debate is titled, uh is religion good for society?

1039
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:06,279
First of all, there's not this
thing as religion, as if all the

1040
01:38:06,279 --> 01:38:12,800
different religions are part of this overall
worshiping of deities and of a generic natural

1041
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:16,840
theology God. There's true religion and
false religion, but there's just this things

1042
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:23,560
like generic religion. And the question
is already out of whack because in order

1043
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:26,680
to know if religion is good for
society or not, we need to know

1044
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:30,640
what the good is. But the
very question itself gets that out of order

1045
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:34,840
by assuming that you have some criteria
of the good by which to judge the

1046
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:42,520
religion. But religion or metaphysics and
theology is the basis for and the grounding

1047
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:47,319
for the good. So this is
it's a dumb way to propose the debate.

1048
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:51,600
But of course this this is the
type of religion or debate that like

1049
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:58,479
normies love this type of framing of
the debate, right, But it's it's

1050
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:02,439
it's all backwards, and it's ignoring
the nuclear strength apologetic that we could have,

1051
01:39:03,319 --> 01:39:09,920
which is to turn the tables and
ask Alex O'Connor and Ben Shapiro as

1052
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:13,039
well, Okay, what is the
good and what is the basis for your

1053
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:19,000
criteria? You're grounding your your judging, your your benchmark for the good here,

1054
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:25,319
because that's what's already presupposed, and
nobody's even asking the question, which

1055
01:39:25,359 --> 01:39:27,840
is like philosophy one on one to
ask well, what is the good?

1056
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:32,520
So how are you going to judge
whether religion's good for society without first determining

1057
01:39:33,039 --> 01:39:39,239
how you know what the good is
and to make different decisions than what biologie

1058
01:39:39,239 --> 01:39:41,680
we drives them do. So you
say, well, it's biologae that drives

1059
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:44,520
you to get out of bed in
the morning, which is almost calvinist and

1060
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:46,760
in sort of the way that it's
described, right, it's like you're predestined

1061
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:54,399
to get out of bed. He's
actually correct in that analogy that the mechanistic

1062
01:39:54,520 --> 01:40:00,640
Darwinian naturalist universe really just took Calvinism
and smushed it into the mechanistic process of

1063
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:05,079
the universe itself. And there is
actually, I think some validity to that

1064
01:40:05,399 --> 01:40:09,960
historical account that people give that out
of the Enlightenment, a lot of the

1065
01:40:10,119 --> 01:40:14,359
Scottish, you know, Enlightenment philosophers
like David Hume and others. Right,

1066
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:21,880
what was the theology existing at that
time throughout Scotland, Scottish Covenanter Calvinism,

1067
01:40:24,239 --> 01:40:32,199
What do the Puritans believe? Puritanical
James Edwardian James Edwards radical extreme occasionalist version

1068
01:40:33,199 --> 01:40:42,199
of predestination. So yeah, it's
just a hot skip and a jump to

1069
01:40:43,239 --> 01:40:51,000
naturalistic predetermination. So once the Puritans
and the Enlightenment, that the the the

1070
01:40:51,079 --> 01:40:56,920
New light, Presbyterians and all those
people had ditched the Trinity and ditched miracles,

1071
01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:02,159
they went from unitarianism too, straight
up naturalistic determinism. Yeah, hopskipp

1072
01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:05,840
in a giant logical progression. So
he's actually correct in the morning. So

1073
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:09,359
thus you get out of bed in
the morning. But the reality is that

1074
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:14,840
we are constantly making decisions as though
those decisions make a difference in the universe,

1075
01:41:15,199 --> 01:41:17,720
and what social science actually does tend
to shows that when people believe that

1076
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:21,359
they have control over their own actions, then when they believe that they're capable

1077
01:41:21,359 --> 01:41:25,720
of changing the way that they live, they do make those changes with more

1078
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:29,199
alacrity and in better directions than if
they don't believe that. If people tend

1079
01:41:29,239 --> 01:41:34,920
to believe in a deterministic universe,
this whole argument about people do better when

1080
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:40,960
they believe this really is irrelevant if
the question is about what's true and what's

1081
01:41:41,039 --> 01:41:46,880
false. So again, the misnamed
premise of this debate is religion good for

1082
01:41:47,039 --> 01:41:51,159
society? Is just the wrong headed
way to have the debate. It's a

1083
01:41:51,239 --> 01:41:56,640
question of what's true and what's false, not is it good for me?

1084
01:41:57,159 --> 01:42:01,560
Right? I mean, the whole
framing of it's like an Enlightenment utilitarian pleasure

1085
01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:04,119
principle. What do I get out
of this? This? Is it good

1086
01:42:04,159 --> 01:42:09,880
for me? Do it make me
do good and feel good? I mean,

1087
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:13,720
might as well make make the topic
of the debate does religion make people

1088
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:18,680
feel good? I mean, it's
equivalent to is it good for society?

1089
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:25,479
Do it make me feel good?
Do we give one fudgy. Well,

1090
01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:29,000
that's a dumb way to have that
debate. Does it make any sense?

1091
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:32,640
Does the religion make me feel good? I mean it might, but what

1092
01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:36,079
does that have to do with whether
it's true false? I don't know.

1093
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:41,920
If I was in this, if
I was asked to come have this debate,

1094
01:42:42,199 --> 01:42:45,880
I would be like, well,
the framing of the debate itself doesn't

1095
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:49,560
make any sense. Is religion good
for society? I would say that presupposes

1096
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:51,720
that we know what the good is. Maybe we should debate what is the

1097
01:42:51,760 --> 01:43:00,359
good right first? But remember,
almost nobody studies metaphysics. Almost nobody knows

1098
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:03,840
what these terms are, what these
things mean, Almost nobody knows informal fallacies.

1099
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:09,560
So it's like, you're just It's
like the conversation that we have with

1100
01:43:09,640 --> 01:43:14,800
James Sexton, right, And he's
a highly intelligent person. Obviously he knows

1101
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:17,000
all kinds of stuff I don't know
about. He's a expert in law and

1102
01:43:17,039 --> 01:43:21,800
all that. Sure, But being
an expert in law and the ways of

1103
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:26,159
the world and all this, like, none of that had any It didn't

1104
01:43:26,159 --> 01:43:30,000
grant any advantage to whether or not
the argument was fallacious, whether or not

1105
01:43:30,239 --> 01:43:35,760
what was being argued was true or
false. They do ect wars, so

1106
01:43:35,920 --> 01:43:43,000
it may. So it's like the
cause of frustration that I experience is that

1107
01:43:43,880 --> 01:43:53,680
we're talking about stuff that are what
can I liken it too? Imagine we're

1108
01:43:53,800 --> 01:44:03,319
mechanics and we know everything about the
structure and makeup of a car. We

1109
01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:05,640
know all the parts, how they
go together. This thing over here,

1110
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:11,479
this runs this thing. You know, this lubricates this other thing to make

1111
01:44:11,560 --> 01:44:14,479
this thing go, to make this
thing go, And it's just like it's

1112
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:19,840
super complex, you know, mobile
computer that rolls down the road, and

1113
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:28,560
we know all about it. Right, And so everybody else rides in cars

1114
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:31,359
and drives cars, but they don't
know anything about the inner workings of the

1115
01:44:31,439 --> 01:44:36,000
car. Right, So when somebody
says, let's have a discussion of cars

1116
01:44:39,239 --> 01:44:41,680
and by the car, I don't
just I don't mean this in some arrogant

1117
01:44:41,680 --> 01:44:44,720
way like the car is God and
I know everything about God. That's not

1118
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:49,000
what I'm saying. I'm saying the
domain of laws of thought and argumentation and

1119
01:44:49,039 --> 01:44:54,319
debate, that's what I'm talking about
here, and metaphysics and basics of philosophy,

1120
01:44:54,399 --> 01:44:58,840
right, the car's philosophy here.
Not knowing everything about God for all

1121
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:04,399
you high goons in the audience,
and so everybody else is like driving around

1122
01:45:04,479 --> 01:45:08,920
in the car and they don't care
about the inner workings of the car.

1123
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:12,920
Right. And so when we go
to talk to these people about cars,

1124
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:16,000
and I say, tell me what
you think of the workings of a car?

1125
01:45:18,279 --> 01:45:23,600
What a most people say, Oh
yeah, dude, you're talking about

1126
01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:31,760
my Bugatti and it run fast,
put oil in, put gas in it

1127
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:36,520
go quick, right, that's what
people are thinking. Cool car fast,

1128
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:45,720
Honda Civic, Toyota, Corolla.
And I'm thinking engine, ignition part you

1129
01:45:45,840 --> 01:45:47,600
know of all this, kuy Like, that's what I'm thinking of when I

1130
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:51,239
think of cars. So when we
have this conversation, I say, ah,

1131
01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:54,800
yes, and I don't know shit
about cars. So I'm trying to

1132
01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:59,479
make this analogy work, but I
don't know what anything about cars. Uh

1133
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:01,600
yes, my friend, what do
you think of the drive shaft and it's

1134
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:11,039
components, the way that they connect
to the the ignition car go fast?

1135
01:46:11,960 --> 01:46:17,199
Right? They don't know what you're
talking about. The heck's a drive shaft?

1136
01:46:17,279 --> 01:46:25,079
I don't know shaft? Oh yeah, shaft right, Well, I

1137
01:46:25,119 --> 01:46:28,399
don't know what a drive shaft is. Car, go fast? Car look

1138
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:30,840
cool? Car, get check right, that's what most people are thinking about

1139
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:38,079
cars. We're not thinking about the
workings and the components, right. And

1140
01:46:38,199 --> 01:46:45,840
it's like, uh, most people, you know, imagine, oh,

1141
01:46:45,920 --> 01:46:48,640
well the car works because you could
just put liquid inside of it and it

1142
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:54,520
go. So any liquid can go
in or are there rules to what liquids

1143
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:57,680
you can put in the car to
make it go. It's the same with

1144
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:01,880
argumentation, with logic. With a
pistolmology, you can't just say anything and

1145
01:47:02,039 --> 01:47:10,159
make argument go. But people can't
get this. It's just like it's two

1146
01:47:10,319 --> 01:47:14,279
different languages. When I say car, I'm thinking of the drive shaft and

1147
01:47:14,279 --> 01:47:18,199
all these stupid parts and components,
and this thing ignites and causes a chemical

1148
01:47:18,239 --> 01:47:23,319
reaction and that runs this thing and
this goes through this part, and everyone

1149
01:47:23,359 --> 01:47:28,319
else is just thinking cargo fast.
Okay, so fine, cargo fast.

1150
01:47:28,399 --> 01:47:34,199
But there's rules to cargo fast.
Like you can't just put bug juice,

1151
01:47:35,319 --> 01:47:39,840
right. You can't put purple sourus
res in the gas tank and it runs,

1152
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:46,640
right. You can't just push accelerator
and it go through wall. No,

1153
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:50,199
it doesn't go. That thing doesn't
go through walls. There's rules about

1154
01:47:50,319 --> 01:47:55,600
there's things that govern the logic of
that car. It doesn't go through walls.

1155
01:47:58,319 --> 01:48:00,880
I mean, you could try to
go through a wall, but cardinal

1156
01:48:01,039 --> 01:48:06,760
go fast when you go through.
All right, but no one thinks of

1157
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:13,479
the laws of thought and argumentation this
way. But they're the same. There's

1158
01:48:13,560 --> 01:48:17,920
rules to it. And everybody already
kind of knows this because if I were

1159
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:23,479
to imagine I were having a conversation, or you've all experienced this with relatives,

1160
01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:30,079
you're at the Thanksgiving turkey dinner and
you're violating all the rules of propriety

1161
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:38,000
and wisdom and arguing with your your
pervert uncle about whether or not there's conspiracies.

1162
01:48:38,600 --> 01:48:44,399
You think nine eleven is inside job? Atta take your as strip club

1163
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:48,920
shit? U straight boy? You
don't that right? Does your uncle know

1164
01:48:49,119 --> 01:48:55,000
the laws of argumentation and logic?
Of course not? And what does he

1165
01:48:55,119 --> 01:49:00,000
say? Your uncle drunk uncle says, uh, not eleven an inside job?

1166
01:49:00,399 --> 01:49:09,920
Because I don't. That don't feel
right to me. Okay, maybe

1167
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:13,760
it is, maybe it is,
but how it feels to you, Uncle

1168
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:18,720
Jimmy don't mean nothing. And I
mean, squat, dude, that's a

1169
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:24,399
dumb argument. If you tell Uncle
Jimmy that's a dumb argument, He's gonna

1170
01:49:24,760 --> 01:49:30,600
set this dole row cigarette down,
and he's gonna set his michelobe light down,

1171
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:36,479
and he's gonna take that Mason ring
and give you a nice little indentation

1172
01:49:36,640 --> 01:49:45,199
across your jaw because it's a Thanksgiving
brawl. Don't argue with your drunk uncle.

1173
01:49:45,680 --> 01:49:48,680
But drunk uncle is a great example
of like what what types of fallacies

1174
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:54,560
most people are gonna turn out?
Right? Not a living or an inside

1175
01:49:54,680 --> 01:50:01,359
job, because it's all them crazy
towelhead people. Right, that's not an

1176
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:10,760
arguments, that's just a spit out
phrase. What if I and then I

1177
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:15,720
turn around to drunk uncle and I
say, drunk uncle, your arguments are

1178
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:23,039
false because your dorial suck my doorrall, don silk, I've been smoking news

1179
01:50:23,119 --> 01:50:27,920
as I was sixteen. You don't
got emphasy and cancer four times? What

1180
01:50:28,119 --> 01:50:30,920
you doing about? He would see, even he would know that's a bad

1181
01:50:31,039 --> 01:50:40,239
argument. So everyone knows deep down, even drunk uncle knows deep down,

1182
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:46,560
Uncle Jimmy, he knows there's bad
arguments. And yet even though we all

1183
01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:49,199
kind of know this, and since
it deep down it's kind of obvious,

1184
01:50:50,560 --> 01:50:54,319
everyone just acts as if there are
no laws of thought. There are no

1185
01:50:54,399 --> 01:50:57,079
laws of logic. There's no art
laws of argumentation, there's no rules to

1186
01:50:57,119 --> 01:50:59,720
any of this. It's all just
arbitrary. It's all made up. And

1187
01:51:00,119 --> 01:51:04,520
debating is just a demonstration of will
to power. It's just power dynamics and

1188
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:11,199
being flashy and being silver tongued and
saying quick things and shutting people down.

1189
01:51:11,560 --> 01:51:15,640
That's like destiny debate, right,
talking fast, that kind of thing,

1190
01:51:16,640 --> 01:51:19,680
which Ben Shapiro does that too,
right, But Ben Schapiro can actually kind

1191
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:23,399
of debate. It seems like,
right, he's kind of an actual sort

1192
01:51:23,439 --> 01:51:28,840
of debater. I mean again,
I've not watched a lot of Ben Shapiro,

1193
01:51:29,119 --> 01:51:32,800
you know, I've seen the viral
clips everybody has seen of this or

1194
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:36,359
that owning of the lib you know, from five or six years ago or

1195
01:51:36,439 --> 01:51:42,119
whatever. But he's actually making a
good argument. Kork is gonna be sort

1196
01:51:42,159 --> 01:51:45,960
of strausi and in its implications,
But that may work for you. You're

1197
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:49,039
a very high IQ individual who can
somehow reconcile the idea of living a very

1198
01:51:49,079 --> 01:51:51,680
purposeful life with the idea that actually
there's no purpose to anything. But for

1199
01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:55,760
the vast majority of people that is
not actually how they live. And I

1200
01:51:55,800 --> 01:51:58,079
would suggest that even in your daily
life. You don't get out of bed

1201
01:51:58,079 --> 01:52:00,720
in the morning thinking, man,
allergy is driving me this morning to get

1202
01:52:00,760 --> 01:52:03,640
on the bike, have a great
day. The stunny is shining, that's

1203
01:52:03,680 --> 01:52:13,239
my bio. Well, that's true, But the debate needs to go out

1204
01:52:13,319 --> 01:52:16,880
of the whole domain of what helps
people and what makes them feel good and

1205
01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:20,640
what's good for them is for society
because that has nothing to do with what's

1206
01:52:20,640 --> 01:52:26,920
true or false. Again, that
might be something we can draw out as

1207
01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:30,680
an implication of what's true and false
in this debate. The whole debate is

1208
01:52:30,720 --> 01:52:35,680
wrong headed. I mean, how
do we know what's good for society if

1209
01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:40,840
we don't know the good? And
every way that this argument goes in this

1210
01:52:40,960 --> 01:52:45,079
discussion so far, it's already just
assuming that there's a common ground idea of

1211
01:52:45,119 --> 01:52:46,880
what the good is. So what
he ought to be doing is pressing Alex

1212
01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:57,159
O'Connor on the good, the justification
for the good, and pressing the deterministic

1213
01:52:57,279 --> 01:53:00,000
naturalist fallacy, which O'Connor has already
committed to. Allergy doing this and I

1214
01:53:00,079 --> 01:53:04,760
don't think that that most people who
live purposeful lives, even if they believe

1215
01:53:04,840 --> 01:53:09,479
that everything they're doing is predetermined by
the world around them, by their own

1216
01:53:09,479 --> 01:53:14,119
biology. I don't believe they actually
feel that they have to engage in what

1217
01:53:14,279 --> 01:53:18,560
they themselves would term an illusion in
order to feel a sense of purpose and

1218
01:53:18,640 --> 01:53:21,479
meaning in their lives. Of course, but that's what the evolutionary process in

1219
01:53:21,560 --> 01:53:24,600
my view, in my worldview I
should say, has done so well,

1220
01:53:25,199 --> 01:53:30,520
is provide precisely that illusion. I
mean, it's not as the wait a

1221
01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:40,239
minute, the evolutionary worldview has provided
that illusion? Is that what let's feel

1222
01:53:40,279 --> 01:53:44,479
that? Make sure he said that
they have to engage in what they themselves

1223
01:53:44,680 --> 01:53:48,520
would term an illusion in order to
feel a sense of purpose and meaning in

1224
01:53:48,560 --> 01:53:54,520
their love, so to have purpose
and meaning. Ben Shapiro saying, you

1225
01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:59,000
basically have to commit yourself to the
illusion of purpose and meaning in this worldview

1226
01:53:59,079 --> 01:54:02,680
that Alex o'c connor has so make
sure I heard him say this, of

1227
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:05,600
course. But that's what the evolutionary
process in my view, in my worldview

1228
01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:10,600
I should say, has done so
well, is provide precisely that illusion.

1229
01:54:10,640 --> 01:54:17,239
I mean, the evolutionary worldview,
That's what I mean. He's like,

1230
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:23,600
does does anyone understand he's losing the
debate on his own He's like he's he's

1231
01:54:24,079 --> 01:54:28,720
out, he's ruining himself very well. If I was being superbib, I'm

1232
01:54:28,720 --> 01:54:30,039
just gonna sit back and let your
talk. I just keep talking, please,

1233
01:54:30,399 --> 01:54:32,600
I would if I was bench like, keep talking. Dude, you're

1234
01:54:32,640 --> 01:54:40,840
doing great refuting yourself because what you
just said, like what, it's not

1235
01:54:40,960 --> 01:54:42,720
as that. I mean you say, look, you don't get out of

1236
01:54:42,760 --> 01:54:45,000
bed in the morning thinking, gosh, you know, look at my biological

1237
01:54:45,039 --> 01:54:48,399
mind. Yeah, of course not, because if I did, then the

1238
01:54:48,479 --> 01:54:54,920
whole evolutionary purpose that this this illusion
serves would fall away. I mean,

1239
01:54:56,199 --> 01:55:00,520
did he just admit that the entire
world that he believes is an evil lutionary

1240
01:55:00,640 --> 01:55:04,199
system that provides the illusion. But
guess what, your belief in the evolutionary

1241
01:55:04,239 --> 01:55:10,319
system is also part of the illusion, dummy. I mean this is like,

1242
01:55:12,039 --> 01:55:14,720
I mean, this is not rocket
science. Guys, you don't even

1243
01:55:14,800 --> 01:55:20,760
need all the philosophical you don't need
philosophical training just to realize that what he

1244
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:26,119
said just canceled out all of his
argumentation and his whole worldview. In other

1245
01:55:26,159 --> 01:55:30,039
words, my world view is an
illusion, but it helps me to live

1246
01:55:30,079 --> 01:55:32,560
and have meaning, to not think
about how my world is an illusion and

1247
01:55:32,680 --> 01:55:38,600
meaningless. Let me hear him say
this again, because this is it's hard

1248
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:43,079
to believe you actually argued this,
Like, are you really just destroying your

1249
01:55:43,119 --> 01:55:45,439
own position this easily? I mean
what you say, Look, you don't

1250
01:55:45,439 --> 01:55:48,319
get out of it in the morning
thinking gosh, you know, look at

1251
01:55:48,359 --> 01:55:54,439
my biologic mind. Yeah, because
if I did, then the whole evolutionary

1252
01:55:54,479 --> 01:56:00,359
purpose that this illusion serves would fall
away. I mean, oh, so

1253
01:56:00,520 --> 01:56:03,279
my whole worldview would collapse if I
were to admit, what is actually the

1254
01:56:03,359 --> 01:56:10,239
case that my worldview isn't really meaningful
or coherent? But let me live my

1255
01:56:10,359 --> 01:56:15,079
delusion and push my delusion even though
it's complete philosophical nonsense as I try to

1256
01:56:15,159 --> 01:56:20,840
make arguments and use logic and argumentation
to have a meaningful discourse, which Bench

1257
01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:25,600
Bureau, to his credit, had
already pointed out would be impossible. This

1258
01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:29,640
whole argument with itself would be impossible
if Alex O'Connor's world view were true.

1259
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:33,720
So Alex O'Connor showing up to make
this argument proves that Alex O'Connor does not

1260
01:56:33,800 --> 01:56:38,479
believe his own worldview, and his
own worldview is nonsense and incoherence. You

1261
01:56:38,520 --> 01:56:42,960
say that this is a fairly purposeless
life, and perhaps the implication so that

1262
01:56:43,079 --> 01:56:46,640
it's a bit of a depressing one. I didn't come here to inspire optimism

1263
01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:49,880
in people. I just think it
is in by the way, in facts

1264
01:56:49,960 --> 01:56:55,319
the case. Right. So he's
trying to be the edgy atheist that owns

1265
01:56:55,399 --> 01:57:00,399
it. But you didn't own your
edginess, you didn't own up to it,

1266
01:57:01,399 --> 01:57:06,279
you didn't affirm Edginius. You destroyed
your whole argument, dummy. But

1267
01:57:06,479 --> 01:57:12,479
this is remember what Paul says,
now, Alex O'Connor, I'm sure colls

1268
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:20,880
my scept to seize himself as a
very sophisticated, popular YouTuber and college graduate

1269
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:29,439
man. Right. In other words, atheism is not it's not a problem

1270
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:41,560
of intellect, right because de scriptures
say that the atheist is ignorant, No,

1271
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:45,840
it calls them a fool. Does
romans one say that men just don't

1272
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:51,159
know because they haven't done enough syllogisms
and enough Aristilian logic, they just don't

1273
01:57:51,199 --> 01:57:56,800
know. No, it says that
all men know and are guilty because they

1274
01:57:56,840 --> 01:58:04,319
suppressed the truth deep down, so
deep down. Alex O'Connor almost told you

1275
01:58:04,760 --> 01:58:11,079
that he knows his worldview is total
bullshit, because if he were to admit

1276
01:58:11,159 --> 01:58:15,920
what it really is. The illusion
of the coherence and the rationality of the

1277
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:19,359
evolutionary worldview and survival of the fitness, and all the stuff that he thinks

1278
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:28,079
is meaningful falls away as an illusion
and is actually meaningless. But he will

1279
01:58:28,159 --> 01:58:34,079
not admit that because he's committed to
a delusion which is not ultimately about reasoning

1280
01:58:34,119 --> 01:58:41,159
an intellect. It's a problem of
pride. Atheism is spiritual delusion, as

1281
01:58:41,439 --> 01:58:48,640
the church elders say, it's not
an intellectual problem. Atheism is an intellectual

1282
01:58:49,159 --> 01:58:58,079
choice that is a result of a
moral problem, a spiritual problem. Do

1283
01:58:58,159 --> 01:59:03,039
you guys see that? And why
that's the case? Well, doesn't exist,

1284
01:59:03,119 --> 01:59:09,079
and we may feel very nihilistic towards
that. But as a wise man

1285
01:59:09,159 --> 01:59:13,239
once said, facts don't care about
your feelings, and I will say that

1286
01:59:13,319 --> 01:59:17,800
the argument. Wait a minute,
I facts don't care about your feelings,

1287
01:59:17,840 --> 01:59:23,159
and facts also don't care about your
chosen delusions. And if your worldview is

1288
01:59:23,199 --> 01:59:27,319
an admitted chosen delusion because it helps
you to have meaning, which you already

1289
01:59:27,319 --> 01:59:30,800
admitted it's all a lie, then
all of your arguments are also delusions and

1290
01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:35,640
lies. Oops against free will,
in my view, is based upon something

1291
01:59:36,279 --> 01:59:42,359
broader than just scientific analysis or empirical
research. Rather, we can build an

1292
01:59:42,399 --> 01:59:45,640
argument, I think, from a
law of logic, the proposition that P

1293
01:59:45,840 --> 01:59:48,039
must either be true or false,
and it can't be both. It can't

1294
01:59:48,079 --> 01:59:51,039
be neither. It has to be
one or the other. We can build

1295
01:59:51,079 --> 01:59:57,920
a worldview from a law of logic. Remember, Matt Della Hunty, I

1296
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:02,359
don't know what transcendental categories are.
They just are. So this is a

1297
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:09,319
magical, irrational faith in something that
he calls a law of logic, which,

1298
02:00:09,359 --> 02:00:14,640
in his worldview doesn't even make sense. He believes in a chaotic excuse

1299
02:00:14,640 --> 02:00:23,359
me, a determined, chaotic,
meaningless, disteleological universe of presumably of pure

1300
02:00:23,439 --> 02:00:29,039
matter. I assume he's a materialist
determinist. Okay, a law of logic

1301
02:00:29,279 --> 02:00:34,079
is not determined matter, dummy,
it can't be. So what is it?

1302
02:00:35,399 --> 02:00:41,439
Oh, it's an invariant, abstract, immaterial Oh but wait a minute.

1303
02:00:41,439 --> 02:00:45,319
You don't have a basis to believe
in those things, because the same

1304
02:00:45,479 --> 02:00:55,479
argumentation that you would use against a
immaterial, invariant, unchanging god is the

1305
02:00:55,560 --> 02:01:01,720
same argument that undercuts and destroys your
belief in abstract, universal metaphysical principles like

1306
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:05,640
laws of logic. Dah, this
is just the Bonsenstein debate all over again.

1307
02:01:09,880 --> 02:01:12,640
You don't have a basis to believe
in a law of logic. Laws

1308
02:01:12,640 --> 02:01:15,720
of logic makes sense in a theistic
world view. They do not make sense

1309
02:01:15,760 --> 02:01:17,680
in your worldview, and you just
admit that it's an illusion. Anyway,

1310
02:01:18,199 --> 02:01:21,600
that falls away if you were to
admit what's really going on at the biological

1311
02:01:21,680 --> 02:01:27,279
level in your worldview. So basically
saying all my arguments are delusions, they

1312
02:01:27,319 --> 02:01:30,760
don't exist, but accept them because
it helps me look cool on the internet,

1313
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:34,720
which doesn't look cool. But anyway, now, this lord of the

1314
02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:41,680
excluded middle on one of the foundational
precepts of philosophy. We can simply ask

1315
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:45,720
a question of any kind of mental
activity and this will be regardless of whether

1316
02:01:45,760 --> 02:01:48,520
it's material or immaterial. That's what
makes this se crucial argument and an important

1317
02:01:48,560 --> 02:01:51,640
one. Sorry, And how do
you give an account for what's immaterial in

1318
02:01:51,720 --> 02:01:58,079
your worldview as a determinist? I
mean, I'm sorry, I feel sorry

1319
02:01:58,119 --> 02:02:00,680
for you guys. It's a disservice
to you, guys that this is what

1320
02:02:01,159 --> 02:02:08,039
the masses are presented with as the
height of intellectual sophistication. Is this cosmic

1321
02:02:08,119 --> 02:02:15,920
skeptic, right. I mean,
college is not a place where you're taught

1322
02:02:16,039 --> 02:02:23,880
to rigorously critically think. College is
a place where you're indoctrinated to be churned

1323
02:02:23,920 --> 02:02:29,279
out as an alex O'Connor does that
make sense? Is that you can ask

1324
02:02:29,319 --> 02:02:32,720
if that of that mental activity,
is it determined or is it not?

1325
02:02:33,039 --> 02:02:36,039
That is, is it determined by
anything else or is it completely undetermined by

1326
02:02:36,079 --> 02:02:41,000
anything. If it's undetermined by anything, then it's random, and you're by

1327
02:02:41,039 --> 02:02:44,399
definition not in control of that which
is random. If it's determined by something,

1328
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:47,359
then it's either determined by something further
inside your mind or inside your brain,

1329
02:02:47,439 --> 02:02:50,520
or indeed inside your soul, or
it's determined by something external to your

1330
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:54,680
brain. If it's determined by something
external to yourself, I should say,

1331
02:02:54,720 --> 02:03:00,000
yourself rather than your brain. Here
to rid this conversation of any implicit material

1332
02:03:00,079 --> 02:03:03,680
listen exterior to yours. Wait a
minute, rid the conversation of materialism.

1333
02:03:03,880 --> 02:03:08,680
I mean, are you are you
committed to that? I mean, I'm

1334
02:03:08,680 --> 02:03:12,239
not going to grant you that you
have a basis to believe in anything immaterial

1335
02:03:12,520 --> 02:03:15,439
in your materialistic universe or worldview,
which you seem to be wanting to do.

1336
02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:19,640
Now that you're talking about minds and
selves, those are metaphysics, and

1337
02:03:19,760 --> 02:03:24,000
the same chopping block that would cut
off God for you in your worldview,

1338
02:03:24,239 --> 02:03:28,399
are also going to cut off things
like minds and selves and laws of logic.

1339
02:03:28,760 --> 02:03:30,760
Do you not get this? Atheists? You guys are super low IQ

1340
02:03:30,920 --> 02:03:34,079
and it's hard to get you to
guys who understand this. But the same

1341
02:03:34,199 --> 02:03:40,000
chopping block that cuts God off cuts
off souls, selves, consciousness, the

1342
02:03:40,119 --> 02:03:45,359
will, the good laws of logic. Can you not see this? And

1343
02:03:45,479 --> 02:03:50,680
yet here you are every time you
make a sentence assuming laws of logic meaning

1344
02:03:51,039 --> 02:03:57,199
t los, etceteratera. Okay,
right, so now that we all admit

1345
02:03:57,279 --> 02:04:00,720
you're doing that, we need to
hear an account for that. What is

1346
02:04:00,800 --> 02:04:05,760
your account for your use and your
belief in these things which you've already admitted

1347
02:04:05,800 --> 02:04:09,520
by the way, our illusions and
don't work. I mean, this is

1348
02:04:10,680 --> 02:04:13,680
you're just I guess. The audience
is just being gas lit, I guess,

1349
02:04:13,800 --> 02:04:15,520
and that everybody just wants to be
gas lit. They want to be

1350
02:04:16,079 --> 02:04:19,960
lie to me. Please us,
please spank me intellectually, spank me.

1351
02:04:20,079 --> 02:04:24,239
Please, Alex O'Connor, please don't
want to be I want to I want

1352
02:04:24,279 --> 02:04:27,720
Stockholm syndrome because the atheist arguments are
good, even though deep done in another

1353
02:04:27,760 --> 02:04:32,119
complete non sense. Please intellectually spank
if me, I'm a bad person health.

1354
02:04:32,920 --> 02:04:35,640
If that's what's determining the action,
then clearly you're not in ultimate control

1355
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:40,000
of that action. If it's something
inside of yourself somewhere, then all you

1356
02:04:40,079 --> 02:04:43,119
do is push the problem back and
you ask the question again, is that

1357
02:04:43,359 --> 02:04:46,720
thing determined or is it indetermined?
Indetermined, it's random determined. You keep

1358
02:04:46,760 --> 02:04:53,560
going back until you either terminate in
something outside of the self something or I

1359
02:04:53,640 --> 02:04:57,680
suppose something undetermined and therefore therefore random, either of which you are complete.

1360
02:04:58,840 --> 02:05:06,119
Alex O'Connor is so bad at debate
that Trent Horne, who is mediocre at

1361
02:05:06,319 --> 02:05:14,600
debate, completely demolished Alex O'Connor within
about forty minutes and had him contradicting himself

1362
02:05:15,479 --> 02:05:18,359
right away. So like, and
I'm not trying to be mean to Trent,

1363
02:05:19,920 --> 02:05:26,560
but my honest assessment as a person
who knows how to debate, of

1364
02:05:26,680 --> 02:05:30,279
the debate with Trent, I would
say Trent is a mediocre debate bit debater

1365
02:05:30,399 --> 02:05:35,279
because he miserably failed to even understand
the basic critiques I was making in our

1366
02:05:35,399 --> 02:05:41,840
natural theology debate. So I give
Trent a mid grade and Trent demolished both

1367
02:05:41,840 --> 02:05:45,800
Matt Dela Hunty and Alex O'Connor.
So what does that tell you? So

1368
02:05:45,159 --> 02:05:51,800
this is like super low grade level
argumentation. And I hope you guys can

1369
02:05:51,880 --> 02:05:58,880
see this. So and I get
asked maybe once every week or two when

1370
02:05:58,920 --> 02:06:01,000
you're getting a debate cosmics skeptic,
when you're going to debate Alex O'Connor,

1371
02:06:01,079 --> 02:06:05,119
You think I haven't asked and sent
emails and sent tweets countless times to all

1372
02:06:05,159 --> 02:06:11,800
these people. Of course, that's
never going to happen. And the reason

1373
02:06:11,800 --> 02:06:15,720
it's never going to happen is not
just because he's got a bigger channel or

1374
02:06:15,800 --> 02:06:18,760
whatever. It's because there there's no
reason for him to do that debate.

1375
02:06:20,199 --> 02:06:28,560
People who have this tier of debate, I guarantee you can sniff out who

1376
02:06:28,600 --> 02:06:30,800
would really demolish them in a debate. So there's no reason for them to

1377
02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:39,279
do it. What optics, What
do they gain from that debate? Because

1378
02:06:40,039 --> 02:06:45,079
the majority of the population has already
figured out that they think that this is

1379
02:06:45,199 --> 02:06:50,800
high tier debate, the debate that
we would have would probably fly over the

1380
02:06:50,840 --> 02:06:55,039
heads of most people anyway, So
it's what good would that even do?

1381
02:06:57,920 --> 02:07:02,960
And it would only draw away the
smarter aspects of Alex O'Connor's audience into theism

1382
02:07:03,079 --> 02:07:06,840
or into our camp. Right,
So there's really no advantages to debating people

1383
02:07:06,880 --> 02:07:10,840
who might beat you in a debate. And I think deep down they sniff

1384
02:07:10,880 --> 02:07:15,039
it out. They know that I
better stick to people in my wheelhouse,

1385
02:07:15,199 --> 02:07:18,079
right, that I could probably hang
with. Why would I debate somebody who

1386
02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:25,119
has spent twenty plus years studying epistemology
metaphysics when I can have a much lower

1387
02:07:25,199 --> 02:07:30,319
tier, much more pop friendly debate. So again that's explaining to you guys,

1388
02:07:30,399 --> 02:07:33,359
why Alex. Why would Alex O'Connor
have a debate with me? Well,

1389
02:07:33,560 --> 02:07:39,920
literally, there's no reason for him
to do it. There's nothing he

1390
02:07:40,039 --> 02:07:44,199
gained from having a debate with me. Be out of control it. If

1391
02:07:44,239 --> 02:07:45,479
you say that it terminates in something
like a soul, people like to do

1392
02:07:45,560 --> 02:07:47,600
this. They say, well,
look, with the religioushilosophy, we have

1393
02:07:47,680 --> 02:07:53,039
the benefit of introducing a soul that
doesn't solve anything, because you still need

1394
02:07:53,159 --> 02:07:56,960
to It's not a matter of having
to explain the mechanism by which the soul

1395
02:07:57,039 --> 02:07:59,800
brings about actions that may well be
a mystery. But if it is the

1396
02:07:59,840 --> 02:08:03,079
case, that whatever it is that's
doing that is either determined or it's not,

1397
02:08:03,359 --> 02:08:05,560
and that if it's not, it's
random and therefore out of your control,

1398
02:08:05,760 --> 02:08:09,800
and that if it is, it
ultimately well. The first thing I

1399
02:08:09,840 --> 02:08:15,279
would say is that he's basing all
of this on his belief in the ex

1400
02:08:15,439 --> 02:08:20,800
law of the excluded middle. But
as a atheist materialist, he doesn't have

1401
02:08:20,840 --> 02:08:24,039
any basis or justification or believing in
invariant immaterial laws. So I don't know

1402
02:08:24,079 --> 02:08:28,319
how he know how he knows or
thinks that there's such a thing as a

1403
02:08:28,439 --> 02:08:33,159
law of excluded middle in a deterministic
universe. Number Two, he's already admitted

1404
02:08:33,239 --> 02:08:37,560
that a bunch of the things that
we've talked about. Now he's arguing like

1405
02:08:37,640 --> 02:08:41,760
there are souls and minds and selves, which he has no basis for either.

1406
02:08:41,760 --> 02:08:43,840
So I don't know why you're supposed
to think that those things exist in

1407
02:08:43,920 --> 02:08:46,840
his worldview, and why he's going
to use those things and appeal to those

1408
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:54,600
things. Unless he's a car salesman
and he's selling people obvious contradictions and lies

1409
02:08:54,640 --> 02:09:01,760
and gasolighting people, which could be
the case, but it's a false It

1410
02:09:01,840 --> 02:09:07,720
also could be a false dialectic right, Like his argument was that from the

1411
02:09:07,800 --> 02:09:11,319
law e s flood of middle,
all of our actions are either completely determined

1412
02:09:11,479 --> 02:09:18,239
or totally chaotic. Well, maybe
a person is a unique kind of metaphysical

1413
02:09:18,359 --> 02:09:22,079
thing that can be influenced by different
types of things, and so their choices

1414
02:09:22,119 --> 02:09:26,399
are not are neither totally biologically determined
nor totally random. Maybe free will is

1415
02:09:26,439 --> 02:09:33,800
a unique metaphysical category that doesn't fit
into your bizarre arbitrary ad hoc either or

1416
02:09:35,279 --> 02:09:39,960
right. And he's gonna say,
oh, dull, you'll attacking on unknown

1417
02:09:39,039 --> 02:09:43,079
and unprovable metaphysical things. Oh yeah, exactly like what you just talked about

1418
02:09:43,119 --> 02:09:48,880
for the last five minutes, unknown
unprovable metaphysical things in your worldview that make

1419
02:09:50,000 --> 02:09:58,000
no sense. Do you guys understand
the strength of presubsistional apologetics pre subsisitional apologetics

1420
02:09:58,079 --> 02:10:05,560
is an immediate IQ test to eliminate
from the outset everybody mediocre and under.

1421
02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:13,840
It is the litmus test of mediocre
and under immediately being canceled out. That's

1422
02:10:13,920 --> 02:10:18,279
the strength of it. When you
understand what we're talking about, itly terminates

1423
02:10:18,319 --> 02:10:20,520
in something outside of yourself or something
random, and both of which are out

1424
02:10:20,520 --> 02:10:26,119
of your control, free will cannot
exist. Well, that does argument that

1425
02:10:26,199 --> 02:10:28,720
that vernment does rely on the complete
deconstruction of the self. I mean that

1426
02:10:28,800 --> 02:10:33,720
you're using the term self in this
argument in I think a couple of different

1427
02:10:33,720 --> 02:10:35,199
ways. You're saying something outside yourself, But then you're breaking down the self

1428
02:10:35,239 --> 02:10:37,960
into a bunch of separate components,
as though the self is a computer.

1429
02:10:39,479 --> 02:10:41,000
Right if you took the self and
you broke it down into a machine and

1430
02:10:41,000 --> 02:10:46,800
there's like the micro there's yeah,
like where he's going here? Like this

1431
02:10:46,960 --> 02:10:50,439
is the direction I would have gone. I would I would point out all

1432
02:10:50,479 --> 02:10:54,279
these different metaphysical terms that he's used
as if there are things that he can

1433
02:10:54,359 --> 02:10:58,560
appeal to when his worldview excludes the
possibility of those things, excludes them being

1434
02:10:58,600 --> 02:11:05,520
coherent. Micro check, and you've
got the processor, You've got all these

1435
02:11:05,560 --> 02:11:07,640
different parts of it. So it
has to be coming from here or it

1436
02:11:07,720 --> 02:11:09,399
has to be coming from here.
But I think the very idea that we

1437
02:11:09,479 --> 02:11:15,039
have of ourselves as slves is as
a deciding being, and so the the

1438
02:11:15,479 --> 02:11:18,800
attempt to carve that down into so
which, Yeah, this was my point

1439
02:11:18,439 --> 02:11:22,159
so he's saying what I was saying
through an analogy. So I agree with

1440
02:11:22,279 --> 02:11:26,920
him parts of the deciding being that
is an avoidance strategy. So I don't

1441
02:11:26,920 --> 02:11:31,199
think that the argument quite holds.
So if we didn't call the self just

1442
02:11:33,279 --> 02:11:37,239
being, then that sort of fundamental
assumption that we make about the nature of

1443
02:11:37,319 --> 02:11:43,560
the self I didn't think is going
to be incapastible with atheism. This marks

1444
02:11:43,600 --> 02:11:50,399
the potential start of a third These
ai ads, these deep fake ads are

1445
02:11:50,640 --> 02:11:56,479
getting totally ridiculous, right, Like
every day there's like some it's like Michael

1446
02:11:56,640 --> 02:12:03,920
Saylor, Donald Trump, Uh,
hello everybody, this is doctor Phil and

1447
02:12:05,000 --> 02:12:07,159
the government has lied to you about
the checks that you can get if you

1448
02:12:07,279 --> 02:12:11,399
sign up here on this app.
Right, It's like the worst stupidest deep

1449
02:12:11,439 --> 02:12:22,319
fake ever. I get them on
every video. How So, because we're

1450
02:12:22,319 --> 02:12:24,640
talking about what the self is,
the I mean, atheists believe in the

1451
02:12:24,720 --> 02:12:30,760
self. Everybody believes in this.
Yeah, thank you Alex for telling us

1452
02:12:30,920 --> 02:12:35,359
the things that you believe in that
have no basis or justification and make no

1453
02:12:35,439 --> 02:12:39,319
sense in your worldview. That's exactly
what we want to call out. We

1454
02:12:39,479 --> 02:12:45,079
know you believe in these things and
use these things and act like you're an

1455
02:12:45,119 --> 02:12:52,279
atheist, using and believing in and
basing your life around things that in your

1456
02:12:52,319 --> 02:12:56,359
worldview don't exist. But this guy
is solo acute. It doesn't even see

1457
02:12:56,359 --> 02:12:58,479
that. I mean that I find
difficult to believe. Why wouldn't atheists believe

1458
02:12:58,479 --> 02:13:03,039
in the self? Self is a
series of of non disci Yeah exactly.

1459
02:13:03,159 --> 02:13:09,800
So Ben Shapiro is actually absolutely nailing
him on the very thing I would argue

1460
02:13:09,439 --> 02:13:13,800
siding mechanisms as you described. I
see that your view of the self is

1461
02:13:13,840 --> 02:13:18,600
an atheist view of the self,
a meatball wandering through space, as I've

1462
02:13:18,640 --> 02:13:22,439
put it somewhat colorfully, the sort
of Spinoza idea that you're a stone that's

1463
02:13:22,479 --> 02:13:24,840
been thrown, and you can comprehend
that you've been thrown, but your stone

1464
02:13:24,840 --> 02:13:26,760
that's been thrown. And that's just
the way that it is. Why would

1465
02:13:26,760 --> 02:13:31,239
there be in atheist philosophy such a
thing as a deciding self, the deciding

1466
02:13:31,359 --> 02:13:35,439
sell, the deciding being is external
to the idea of an evolutionary cause,

1467
02:13:35,520 --> 02:13:43,800
because it again, the very word
deciding suggests uncaused decision making. Yeah exactly,

1468
02:13:45,359 --> 02:13:48,960
this is the appropriate way. So
Ben Shapiro is absolutely correct. The

1469
02:13:50,000 --> 02:13:54,439
way he's critiquing this worldview. I
had no idea what I was going to

1470
02:13:54,479 --> 02:13:58,680
get when I clicked this video,
and a million people said, not a

1471
02:13:58,720 --> 02:14:03,720
million, but tons of people said, do the debate between Shapiro no corner.

1472
02:14:05,880 --> 02:14:09,000
Yeah, So here we are.
This is the essence of the free

1473
02:14:09,039 --> 02:14:16,960
will predestination debate and determinism debate.
And Shapiro's absolutely correctly on point calling him

1474
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:22,600
out as to a pre subpositional internal
critique of the atheist worldview that the self

1475
02:14:22,680 --> 02:14:28,520
makes no sense, it's arbitrary and
ad hoc. But again, do atheists

1476
02:14:28,680 --> 02:14:33,039
do anything but be arbitrary and ad
hoc. No, they don't, And

1477
02:14:33,319 --> 02:14:39,079
you've just excluded it through your own
philosophy uncaused decision making. I suppose it's

1478
02:14:39,079 --> 02:14:41,840
a concept that I think is unintelligible, and therefore if there is, if

1479
02:14:41,840 --> 02:14:45,800
there is an unintelligibility. So you
notice, unless there was an edit,

1480
02:14:45,880 --> 02:14:50,479
there no response on what the self
was. The whole discussion was about,

1481
02:14:50,520 --> 02:14:52,840
now the metaphysics of the self,
which O'Connor was trying to appeal to.

1482
02:14:54,159 --> 02:14:58,199
Ben Shapiro correctly called him out on
it, and he's what deflecting often too

1483
02:14:58,279 --> 02:15:01,560
some other thing. So he doesn't
want to talk about that clearly. And

1484
02:15:01,760 --> 02:15:05,039
look at the body language. He
looks like he even gets bothered by the

1485
02:15:05,119 --> 02:15:07,279
question. Again, look at him
like he's closing his elf like, oh,

1486
02:15:07,520 --> 02:15:11,880
he's like, oh shit, oh
ship, I brought up self.

1487
02:15:11,319 --> 02:15:16,119
Uh but I already canceled out things
like self and my dumb philosophy. What

1488
02:15:16,159 --> 02:15:18,600
am I gonna do the very word
deciding? Look at him? Down bad,

1489
02:15:18,760 --> 02:15:22,640
right there, dude, down bad? He said a fist, He's

1490
02:15:22,680 --> 02:15:31,800
got his quibi quabbles in a WHEEBI
wobble, oh cooly cobbers, oh blundy

1491
02:15:31,920 --> 02:15:39,119
dumb be bumbledoor eat bumbledumb to be
dumbledore suggests. He's like, oh,

1492
02:15:39,840 --> 02:15:46,760
look at out angry eyes. Now
I've had enough debates, by the way,

1493
02:15:46,800 --> 02:15:48,680
where you can you can begin to
see in the body language of people,

1494
02:15:50,520 --> 02:15:54,319
uh, when when they're like when
they're in oh land, you just

1495
02:15:54,399 --> 02:15:58,720
stepped into You just stepped your foot
into a big pile of oh ship,

1496
02:15:58,840 --> 02:16:05,000
right cause decision making and you've just
excluded it through your own philosophy. Oh,

1497
02:16:07,000 --> 02:16:13,039
that's exactly what I would have argued, uncool decision making. Oh,

1498
02:16:13,479 --> 02:16:16,840
let's not talk about that, and
let me shift it over into some other

1499
02:16:16,000 --> 02:16:24,239
thing uncaused decision making. That was
a pretty Again, this is the first

1500
02:16:26,920 --> 02:16:30,560
like proper. This is a prop
debate. We're gonna have a debate.

1501
02:16:30,600 --> 02:16:33,319
It's gonna be proper. This is
my first proper debate with Ben Shapiro,

1502
02:16:33,520 --> 02:16:37,959
watching him do a proper bit,
not debating a purple haired college goblin.

1503
02:16:39,959 --> 02:16:45,280
And I think that was actually pretty
solid. I see the body language of

1504
02:16:46,079 --> 02:16:54,239
cosmic shit pile here just melts,
he like sinks down and then gives him

1505
02:16:54,319 --> 02:17:00,799
like gives him like evil. Why
would there be in athi philosophy such a

1506
02:17:00,799 --> 02:17:03,920
thing as a deciding self, the
deciding himself, the deciding being is external

1507
02:17:03,959 --> 02:17:09,799
to the idea of an evolutionary cause, because he, oh, close my

1508
02:17:09,879 --> 02:17:13,399
eyes and let me sink into myself. Let me sink into my non existent

1509
02:17:13,879 --> 02:17:20,600
determined self and come up with an
argument very word decided. Look at the

1510
02:17:22,840 --> 02:17:33,399
watch, the angry look caused decision. So and I get credit to Ben

1511
02:17:33,399 --> 02:17:39,440
Shapiro for handing handling it in a
friendly way, because if I was debating

1512
02:17:39,440 --> 02:17:43,159
Alex O'Connor, we all know that, like I will like throw in some

1513
02:17:43,360 --> 02:17:46,280
jokes, you know, and I
put these people into a rage, like

1514
02:17:46,319 --> 02:17:50,799
when they debate with me. They
get they get into a rage. So

1515
02:17:50,959 --> 02:17:54,479
he wouldn't have just been giving me, you know, evil eye, nasty

1516
02:17:54,559 --> 02:18:00,639
look. Dude would have like jumped
across the table with soy rage. Well

1517
02:18:00,639 --> 02:18:01,840
he want to jumped there he went. No, he would run out of

1518
02:18:01,879 --> 02:18:05,399
the room. Right, we have
a rage quit soy rage quit, estrogen

1519
02:18:05,479 --> 02:18:11,520
rage quit. Anyway, So there
you go. A lot of you said

1520
02:18:11,200 --> 02:18:16,159
cover this, cover this. That
sounded like I went into a doctor Philip,

1521
02:18:16,319 --> 02:18:20,680
when you're going to cover this?
Uh, we're gonna have to go

1522
02:18:20,799 --> 02:18:24,360
back to the Wi fi now because
of my damn internet's net it up.

1523
02:18:26,360 --> 02:18:39,399
My internet's been drinking Michael old Light
and smoking door rills. So hold on

1524
02:18:39,600 --> 02:18:46,079
just one second. Everybody's gonna be
fussing word stream. God. We didn't

1525
02:18:46,079 --> 02:18:50,079
even end up talking about aliens tonight. We talking about this goofy debate.

1526
02:18:50,159 --> 02:18:52,920
But it was exactly I wonder Ben
Shapiro listens to arguments we make though,

1527
02:18:54,440 --> 02:19:03,559
could be? Could be now we
gotta talk about aliens though? What's the

1528
02:19:03,760 --> 02:19:09,360
F for? We're gonta put f's
in the chat. I just had to

1529
02:19:09,399 --> 02:19:11,520
switch back over to the WiFi.
What's what? What's what? The f's

1530
02:19:13,360 --> 02:19:24,600
We're still here. We ain't going
nowhere. I told you it would.

1531
02:19:24,959 --> 02:19:28,719
We had to come right back because
I had to switch over to the Wi

1532
02:19:28,799 --> 02:19:33,920
Fi because if I use the L
A N I have to turn off the

1533
02:19:33,959 --> 02:19:37,719
Wi Fi. When the battery runs
down, I have to switch back to

1534
02:19:37,760 --> 02:19:43,680
the WiFi. Right. No,
it's not the government. We're here.

1535
02:19:43,959 --> 02:19:52,959
Everything's good, so I'll be I
don't have to change the title of this

1536
02:19:54,239 --> 02:19:56,600
live stream because it ended up being
not really being about what we thought it

1537
02:19:56,680 --> 02:19:58,799
was going to be about. But
I think that section those sections were quality

1538
02:19:58,840 --> 02:20:01,440
care tis there. Maybe we should
just leave it like it is, though,

1539
02:20:01,479 --> 02:20:05,079
and not even get into alien stuff, because now it won't even make

1540
02:20:05,159 --> 02:20:11,319
sense to talk about alien stuff given
that nothing we talked about was had anything

1541
02:20:11,319 --> 02:20:18,799
to do with aliens. So we'll
see what we got. Ken m says

1542
02:20:18,879 --> 02:20:22,680
for five dollars, I love your
work, but you have chronic rhinitis.

1543
02:20:24,200 --> 02:20:30,120
Well, thank you for Internet diagnosing
me, doctor Internet. But if I

1544
02:20:30,200 --> 02:20:33,399
have something that's chronic, that means
it comes and goes, and this is

1545
02:20:33,760 --> 02:20:39,079
not something that comes and goes.
This is something that arrived via the Vatican

1546
02:20:39,159 --> 02:20:43,559
and has not left, so it
has just been here. But thank you

1547
02:20:43,680 --> 02:20:48,479
for your diagnosis, doctor Internet,
and you said you saline and nasal.

1548
02:20:50,120 --> 02:20:54,360
We'll see ribranium. Five dollars.
I need an alien that's worked. I

1549
02:20:54,479 --> 02:20:56,920
need it alien, It's worked with
me. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas.

1550
02:20:56,959 --> 02:21:05,079
Do you two? Maybe maybe Santa
will bring you a nice supple alien to

1551
02:21:05,159 --> 02:21:09,159
tourk for you, single man?
Were I brainian? Five dollars? Dang,

1552
02:21:09,280 --> 02:21:15,520
the superchats made my fire emojis become
questions Merry Christmas to Jamie too.

1553
02:21:16,399 --> 02:21:20,600
Well. I'm sure Jamie is happy
that you are wishing her a Christmas time,

1554
02:21:20,319 --> 02:21:24,399
but I will not speak for her
because she may not bless you for

1555
02:21:24,520 --> 02:21:28,120
Christmas, so I'm not going to
speak for Christen. Ten dollars. I

1556
02:21:28,159 --> 02:21:35,680
could not superchat until you were done
singing. It was too captivating. Come

1557
02:21:35,799 --> 02:21:43,680
on, we're tying up. I'm
not exactly you feel me. Vincent migtial

1558
02:21:43,760 --> 02:21:46,879
five dollars. I hate to interrupt
this, ear Candy, but can you

1559
02:21:46,000 --> 02:21:52,399
sing classic Mode? What is classic
mode? Oh? Depeche Mode. I

1560
02:21:52,520 --> 02:21:54,879
hear that they are on tour and
I wanted to go see them. Well,

1561
02:21:56,120 --> 02:22:00,360
they came to Nashville and I was
trying to buy tickets and it ended

1562
02:22:00,440 --> 02:22:03,239
up not working out where we could
be there when they were in Nashville,

1563
02:22:03,719 --> 02:22:05,399
and then I thought, well,
maybe they're gonna come to Florida. So

1564
02:22:05,760 --> 02:22:09,479
I didn't make it a priority to
buy Nashville tickets because I thought, we'll

1565
02:22:09,479 --> 02:22:11,639
I'll try to see them somewhere in
Florida. But I don't think they even

1566
02:22:11,639 --> 02:22:18,319
came to Florida. So I really
wanted to see the Peche Mode and was

1567
02:22:18,639 --> 02:22:22,280
in the process of buying tickets and
I did it. I love to sing,

1568
02:22:22,360 --> 02:22:24,879
and I appreciate when people singing other
people in front of other people.

1569
02:22:26,879 --> 02:22:28,959
We need to do more caroke,
right, we need to have more karaoke

1570
02:22:30,159 --> 02:22:33,319
nights. Luke plays Drivvings five dollars. Jay, You're gonna make me stumble

1571
02:22:33,879 --> 02:22:39,600
tempting you with alien booty cheeks.
You should not be tempted by cgi aliens,

1572
02:22:41,079 --> 02:22:45,440
Towerking. So you need to go
see a doctor, a mind doctor,

1573
02:22:46,680 --> 02:22:50,159
a mental health doctor. You need
to go get your mental health's checked

1574
02:22:50,159 --> 02:22:58,520
and take a self care day.
You said, my alien and myself can

1575
02:22:58,600 --> 02:23:05,000
go get individual blessings as a couple
at the local Roman Catholic church. Exactly,

1576
02:23:05,159 --> 02:23:09,120
Yes, it's a couple's blessing.
Uh oh, Mark Morrison showed up.

1577
02:23:11,200 --> 02:23:15,639
Don't ever sing my song again.
Jesuits owe me a favor, by

1578
02:23:15,680 --> 02:23:22,399
the way, Oh come on,
well, I'm sorry Mark Morrison that I

1579
02:23:22,479 --> 02:23:24,600
I don't know what the Jesuits had
to do with your song, but I

1580
02:23:24,680 --> 02:23:30,040
apologize. Storm the Cat ten dollars. If you watched the anime Death Note,

1581
02:23:30,680 --> 02:23:35,040
I have not because I've not seen
much anime at all, so I'll

1582
02:23:35,120 --> 02:23:41,319
have to try to remember to look
at Death Note. Ben chilled for the

1583
02:23:41,520 --> 02:23:45,639
jab, Storm the Cat three dollars, Frankie d five dollars. Drunk Uncle

1584
02:23:45,799 --> 02:23:48,639
stories remind me of how and by
the way, I forgot, yes,

1585
02:23:48,760 --> 02:23:52,000
drunk Uncle is a Saturn Ound Night
Live character. That's not what I was

1586
02:23:52,040 --> 02:24:01,000
thinking of. I was actually thinking
of my uncle. So anyway, they

1587
02:24:01,079 --> 02:24:07,479
try to remind me of how drunk
uncles explained fighting Saddam in the war wasn't

1588
02:24:07,799 --> 02:24:11,600
was for America and it wasn't for
Johnny Rockefeller. Dudes that went there don't

1589
02:24:11,680 --> 02:24:15,639
like to hear that. Yeah,
exactly, Like if you try to explain

1590
02:24:15,719 --> 02:24:20,239
that the wars are not fault for
America's defenses but for you know, Subway,

1591
02:24:20,639 --> 02:24:26,479
Coke, Pepsi and Amazon, that
doesn't make him happy exactly, Jay,

1592
02:24:26,639 --> 02:24:33,399
did you watch the Jimbob debate with
Mike Burgandhi? No, I'm not

1593
02:24:33,600 --> 02:24:41,920
seeing the recent Jimbob debate. I'm
assuming that's on the Crucible. Let's see.

1594
02:24:43,840 --> 02:24:46,760
Ooh, I'm streaming over my wife. Uh oh, she's gonna be

1595
02:24:46,799 --> 02:24:58,600
made a Let's see Jim Bob's debate
with Mike Burgandhi, is he an atheist?

1596
02:24:58,360 --> 02:25:11,239
He apheists Mike brigand let's take a
little look at it. I don't

1597
02:25:11,239 --> 02:25:13,520
believe in any gods, and I
believe that there are some gods, especially

1598
02:25:13,600 --> 02:25:20,079
the Christian one, that are definitionally
unable to exist, meaning the intelllogical contradictions

1599
02:25:20,280 --> 02:25:26,719
or inconsistencies. So today I will
point out these logical consistencies contradictions. I

1600
02:25:26,840 --> 02:25:31,879
like, he's got my Brian Greene's
book on dimensions in the background, Like

1601
02:25:31,959 --> 02:25:33,319
that's going to make it look smart, right, Like, I know about

1602
02:25:33,360 --> 02:25:37,520
dimensions, dude, I know about
dimensions. What's the other book? I

1603
02:25:37,559 --> 02:25:48,000
can't tell. It's something something cosmos
like Karl Sagan or something. Yeah,

1604
02:25:48,040 --> 02:25:50,079
I don't know. I don't know
if I have the energy for this three

1605
02:25:50,200 --> 02:25:56,120
hours? Good grief, dude,
Is there a specific like gotcha point in

1606
02:25:56,200 --> 02:25:58,479
this debate that I could go to. I can't watch all three hours of

1607
02:25:58,520 --> 02:26:05,559
this. Mike lost the very moment
he said that we can see logic in

1608
02:26:05,639 --> 02:26:09,760
its matter. Okay, well yeah, if that that would be the kill

1609
02:26:09,840 --> 02:26:11,440
shot. So is there a time
stamp? Can we just go to that?

1610
02:26:11,639 --> 02:26:16,879
I mean that's like these atheists are
just like bottom of the barrel,

1611
02:26:18,000 --> 02:26:20,440
dude, They're so dumb. Man. I'm not trying to be mean,

1612
02:26:20,600 --> 02:26:24,520
like there aren't dumb Christians or religious
people. There are. There's dumb people

1613
02:26:24,639 --> 02:26:28,639
everywhere. Guess what, there's dummies
everywhere. But I mean it's just like

1614
02:26:28,760 --> 02:26:41,200
atheism is when they actually go up
against an educated, metaphysically philosophically grounded person.

1615
02:26:41,600 --> 02:26:46,680
It's like Michael Jordan versus playground people, right. I Mean there's like

1616
02:26:46,760 --> 02:26:52,000
they don't even know basic stuff.
They just completely collapse. I mean imagine

1617
02:26:52,079 --> 02:26:58,559
thinking that logic is material. I
mean that's basically what we reult reduce uh

1618
02:26:58,600 --> 02:27:07,079
stuff to saying. Within like ten
minutes of our debate, right, Jim

1619
02:27:07,159 --> 02:27:09,680
Bob annihilated Mike. Mike is out
of his depth. I mean, you

1620
02:27:09,760 --> 02:27:13,399
got and they're saying he's a midwit
Reddit atheist Yeah, so it looks like

1621
02:27:15,520 --> 02:27:20,879
that's about what I expected it would
be. Uh, let's see you said

1622
02:27:20,920 --> 02:27:26,479
in the rest of your comment if
you did watch this debate, what kind

1623
02:27:26,559 --> 02:27:31,639
of arguments would hit home with that
audience. I don't even know who what

1624
02:27:31,760 --> 02:27:37,120
audio, I mean, the crucible
audience or the atheists. It seems like

1625
02:27:37,200 --> 02:27:43,239
you're can apply distellial it's dys distelology, not d s disteleological arguments to any

1626
02:27:43,159 --> 02:27:48,719
person arguing for determinism. Yeah,
sure, of course absolutely. Steve Miller

1627
02:27:50,079 --> 02:27:56,360
five dollars, Steve Millervan, we
got Boomer Rockers in the chat as well

1628
02:27:56,399 --> 02:28:00,840
as R and B Legends, got
Mark Morrison and even Miller Band in the

1629
02:28:00,920 --> 02:28:05,479
jet five dollars explain the link between
jesus death at age thirty three and Masonic

1630
02:28:05,600 --> 02:28:11,319
number thirty three. I don't believe
in or know if any connection between that.

1631
02:28:11,479 --> 02:28:16,959
I mean maybe the Masons think that
arbitrarily. They could say, you

1632
02:28:16,079 --> 02:28:22,879
know, post hawk, Oh well, the number thirty three corresponds to Jesus's

1633
02:28:24,760 --> 02:28:28,600
death. I mean, there is
no connection. Masonry is based on made

1634
02:28:28,639 --> 02:28:31,920
up stuff. Frankie d ten dollars
do a Christopher walking. My Christmer walking

1635
02:28:33,000 --> 02:28:37,079
is not very good. Y'all.
Everybody requests like my worst impressions. I

1636
02:28:37,120 --> 02:28:41,840
think I'm pretty good at quite a
few, but my walking is not very

1637
02:28:41,879 --> 02:28:46,040
good. Man. I have to
go back to work. I have to

1638
02:28:46,120 --> 02:28:48,680
go back to the shop, literally, because you can't actually work on impressions

1639
02:28:48,719 --> 02:28:52,600
of making better. So I'd have
to work on my Christopher walking to get

1640
02:28:52,600 --> 02:28:58,280
it better. It's just and I
haven't done it a long time. Expanding

1641
02:28:58,360 --> 02:29:01,680
the Doctor Phil with Christopher Walking doing
an ad about how you should buy chalk

1642
02:29:03,239 --> 02:29:09,399
Patriot chalk to be prepared for the
shortages. I'm sorry, Frankie Die,

1643
02:29:09,440 --> 02:29:13,200
I just don't have a good enough
oh wow and wow. Right, remember

1644
02:29:13,239 --> 02:29:18,760
when he's dancing with the aliens?
Uh, oh wow? I like to

1645
02:29:18,040 --> 02:29:24,680
dance with aliens. Now that's a
problem that you've got. That's a deep

1646
02:29:24,840 --> 02:29:28,959
suited thing with your mother. Do
you think you would always dance with aliens

1647
02:29:30,000 --> 02:29:33,920
if you had a father at home? How's that? How's that? That's

1648
02:29:33,959 --> 02:29:39,799
the kind of conversation I would see
Christopher Walking and Doctor Phil have it right,

1649
02:29:41,879 --> 02:29:43,399
Because I'm talking about the movie Comunion. Does anybody even see the movie

1650
02:29:43,399 --> 02:29:46,840
Communion? You don't even know what
I'm talking about? In Communion, Christopher

1651
02:29:46,879 --> 02:29:54,520
Walking does the cha Chai with aliens
right playing Whitley Streaver. So anyway,

1652
02:29:56,840 --> 02:30:01,120
so I think we'll just skip aliens. That even makes sense to talk about

1653
02:30:01,120 --> 02:30:03,200
aliens now. It's like, maybe
we could do this tomorrow night or something,

1654
02:30:03,920 --> 02:30:09,040
but we ended up not even totally
different topics tonight. That's okay,

1655
02:30:09,040 --> 02:30:13,399
because everybody's always requesting, you know, debate reviews, so probably better to

1656
02:30:13,479 --> 02:30:20,120
do the debate review with with what
we talked about tonight. But look,

1657
02:30:20,159 --> 02:30:22,120
guys, come on, there's one
thing I gotta tell y'all. You all

1658
02:30:22,280 --> 02:30:28,639
know it, but we're all avoiding
it. We're all telling ourselves lies about

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02:30:28,920 --> 02:30:33,559
how to become masculine. We all
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your boss and mog on end.
Show of something that we're all proud of.

1680
02:32:15,760 --> 02:32:20,879
I got a browser here. This
is Jay Dyers, much vaunted,

1681
02:32:20,159 --> 02:32:26,120
much sought after philosophy one oh one. Now he just got this page up.

1682
02:32:26,399 --> 02:32:28,360
We are just testing it out.
You guys are some of the first

1683
02:32:28,399 --> 02:32:31,040
people in the world to see it. I want to say, for my

1684
02:32:31,200 --> 02:32:33,959
part, it's not philosophy one oh
one. I think this is a mistitling.

1685
02:32:35,399 --> 02:32:39,280
I really think is as like philosophy
unleashed because a philosophy want on one

1686
02:32:39,360 --> 02:32:43,600
course, they give you kind of
some useless information that you can't make sense

1687
02:32:43,639 --> 02:32:48,559
of. Jay actually lays out over
twelve weeks, dozens and dozens of hours

1688
02:32:48,680 --> 02:32:52,200
put into just the presentation of this, let alone the hundreds and thousands of

1689
02:32:52,280 --> 02:32:56,959
hours of research that it takes to
have a coherent evolution and history of the

1690
02:32:56,120 --> 02:33:00,760
origins of philosophy, the uses of
philosophy, the different to look at it

1691
02:33:00,879 --> 02:33:05,479
over time, and how that has
been brought about to what we have today,

1692
02:33:05,920 --> 02:33:11,000
which is almost an absence of philosophy
on the objective, logic and reason

1693
02:33:11,120 --> 02:33:16,000
side. In an overabundance of woke
philosophy that is irrational, is made up

1694
02:33:16,159 --> 02:33:18,520
day by day as people are like, I think we should bring racism back,

1695
02:33:18,559 --> 02:33:22,959
and then here's a justification, and
then it gets woke afied and spread

1696
02:33:22,000 --> 02:33:26,360
out, and then all of a
sudden you have a bunch of communist socialist

1697
02:33:26,479 --> 02:33:30,040
ideas where you become the property in
action. You need to be able to

1698
02:33:30,079 --> 02:33:33,840
stand on your own ground. It
helps to have a foundation in philosophy because

1699
02:33:33,840 --> 02:33:37,959
it's a method define truth when you
get down to it. Philosophy is there

1700
02:33:37,319 --> 02:33:41,520
because you love truth enough to go
and learn how to find it, because

1701
02:33:41,520 --> 02:33:46,280
it's valuable. So if you're interested
in things like that, there is the

1702
02:33:46,399 --> 02:33:48,680
landing page. We'll link it up
in the notes. It is a longer

1703
02:33:48,760 --> 02:33:52,760
once, so we'll get a shorter
URL for this. I'm sure Jay has

1704
02:33:52,799 --> 02:33:54,000
a link on his page. I
just wanted to show it off. Now

1705
02:33:54,040 --> 02:34:35,159
you know what exists, you can
go look for it and see. Is

1706
02:34:35,239 --> 02:34:39,559
that I'm muted? Now somebody said
you a mess, Your mom's a mess.

1707
02:34:39,360 --> 02:34:50,079
I don't know why it's muted.
Shouldn't be muted anyway, Well,

1708
02:34:50,360 --> 02:34:52,719
it's the end of the stream anywhere
anyway, so you're just fussing about nothing.

1709
02:34:54,440 --> 02:34:56,680
Maybe I wanted to come on muted, and maybe I didn't want you

1710
02:34:56,760 --> 02:35:01,719
to hear the horrible things I saying
about your mom. Do you think about

1711
02:35:01,719 --> 02:35:05,360
that? Do you think about whether
I might I muted on purpose so you

1712
02:35:05,399 --> 02:35:09,760
didn't have to gear feelings hurt?
Troy says, for five dollars, make

1713
02:35:09,840 --> 02:35:15,000
a video tour of your library.
Explain how to start with a good personal

1714
02:35:15,040 --> 02:35:22,159
book collection. Well, I did
do a I did a library tour several

1715
02:35:22,280 --> 02:35:28,040
years ago, and that was back
when I had like five thousand subscribers though,

1716
02:35:28,479 --> 02:35:35,799
so I've probably gotten a few thousand
books since then too, So we

1717
02:35:35,879 --> 02:35:39,360
could do a library tour. It's
kind of like, let's see if I

1718
02:35:39,399 --> 02:35:43,040
can do this? Can I do
this? Y'all want to see what's behind

1719
02:35:43,120 --> 02:35:46,799
the scenes. So when you look
at the other side of the room,

1720
02:35:48,120 --> 02:35:58,959
it's exactly the same. So there's
basically the same stuff right on the other

1721
02:36:00,040 --> 02:36:03,799
side of the room. And then
there's another room that is the exact same

1722
02:36:03,840 --> 02:36:11,360
as this room with all the same
books. So basically two full rooms.

1723
02:36:13,920 --> 02:36:16,959
But you want a video where I
go around and show you all the books.

1724
02:36:20,440 --> 02:36:24,600
Uh, And also you ask for
a basic library, like a starter

1725
02:36:24,760 --> 02:36:31,559
kit for a library. MTV cribs
MTV libraries. Ain't know saying is MTV

1726
02:36:31,680 --> 02:36:37,280
libraries. I might do that.
I might do that one day. It's

1727
02:36:37,319 --> 02:36:39,760
gonna take more than a five dollars
super chat, though. You gotta pay

1728
02:36:39,799 --> 02:36:41,280
me. We gotta pay me a
lot more than that to do it right,

1729
02:36:43,600 --> 02:36:46,879
or else I'm gonna start rapping you
better, y'all better super Chat.

1730
02:36:46,879 --> 02:36:52,000
I'm gonna start rapping again. You
know what I'm saying. You remember that

1731
02:36:54,799 --> 02:36:58,000
I must start saying. I must
start threatening that you have to superchat me

1732
02:36:58,120 --> 02:37:03,719
or else I will wrap. Let's
see here we go remember this? Oh

1733
02:37:03,799 --> 02:37:09,360
it's already disconnected. Never mind.
Yeah, we could do a we could

1734
02:37:09,399 --> 02:37:13,239
do a library tour sometime. That'd
be fun. In my rage quitting,

1735
02:37:13,280 --> 02:37:16,840
I'm always right, did our rage
quit on a daily basis? You know

1736
02:37:16,879 --> 02:37:20,920
what I mean? Anyway, a
lot of fun tonight. I hope you

1737
02:37:20,920 --> 02:37:24,120
guys enjoyed it. I can't think
of anything else to review.