In this episode today. You know, Shelly what we have not had a
guest on in a really long time. I think we should have one on
right now today. Okay, who do you want to get? Let me
get my phone out. Who do you want to call? Well, we
already recorded it, so I mean, I'm trying to make their listeners like
it's so spontaneous. I'm feeling all the spontaneity right now. I have I
have a phone number, I'll just call. I'll just call here, calling
people and maybe we can get them to be guests on the show. Yeah,
yeah, here, let me how about we just run the interview we
already recorded. We're calling We're calling her? Are you're calling Breal right now?
On her? Right now? You're just like randomly pushing this is our
number? Can we just get to the interview we had? Okay, our
guest today. I want to see if this actually calls anyone? Who are
you calling? I don't know? International? Is an international? Didn't go
through? Get back to the pound sign yes? Sorry? Sorry? Okay,
So our guest today, and you know what, we had so much
content we're splitting it up into two episodes. Yeah, such a good freaking
interview yeah, I'm not lying totally. And our guest, if I could
get to it, sorry, is Brielle Decker. Yes, she is the
subject of a documentary called Prisoner of the Prophet. Yes, it is about
Warren Jeffs. She was. She's going to come on in a second.
I don't need to tell her story, but she was Warren Jeff's sixty somethink
I think sixty fifth sixty fifth wife who's counting. Yeah, you know once
you're above like fifty y. I think it's just all kind of blend unbelievable
story. Seriously, please stay tuned to listen to that. Also, at
the end, we've got kind of a related foom pod we're gonna do.
We're gonna give it a go. Okay, and then patrons, No,
it's not related. The patron names are going to be related sort of.
Oh so the foom pod has nothing to do with anything in the intern not
a damn thing. It just was something I happened to say, and you're
like what and then we realize, oh, oh that's you don't know what
this is said it in the interview. Okay, we are rambling. We're
two minutes into an intro. Look at us. Go, don't give up,
don't give up. We're gonna get to it, I promise. All
right, Well we will be right back. Hey, everybody, welcome to
Latter Day Lesbian, the podcast about an next Mormon gay girl just trying to
figure out her life. My name is Mary, my name is Shoey,
and I have to say sorry, I'm just gonna keep talking. Our recordings
are very infrequent right now because we are so hella busy. But literally,
every time I hear you say the intro that you just did, I get
happy. I don't know, I don't know. As much as we're like
trying to cram in podcasting along with our daily lives, there's just this feeling
of like happiness and home and I really like it. Something familiar. Yes,
it's like I'm talking to my friends out there and I'm a big wide
world. Oh I'm glad that people can give you, I don't know,
warm fuzzies, warm fuzzies. And maybe it's something to do with my recording.
Maybe it's my voice, it's your sexy recording. It for sure,
that's what it is. Well, why don't we get to our guest,
shall we? Yeah, so Shelley, we have a special guest today.
So excited. Our guest is Brielle Decker from the documentary on Discovery Plus,
Prisoner of the Profit. I think this is our first interview with anyone x
FLDFLDS. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. We're so excited.
Brill, welcome to our show. We're so happy to have you. Thank
you. We watched the show. I guess it's been a month saying I
had to pull my jaw off the floor after watching. Yeah. Wow,
Bril's like the star of the show. Oh yeah, and we'll get in
that into that in just a second. Um. Also, those of you
who have not seen it, like what the hell's wrong with you? On
Discovery Plus or Amazon Prime add on? You have to see this right And
this parting is a spoiler alert? Were right? Yeah that's true. I
don't know this as much as of a spoiler, but this is like you
will get to know the story so much better because we're talking to the star.
And if you've already seen it, watch it again, Like listen to
this episode, watch it again because you're gonna get some more insight there.
So we're so excited. Yeah, before we dive into the nuts and bolts
of the documentary, Brielle, how did you come to make a documentary for
Discovery? Plus? I got approached by a producer, and that's usually my
history anyway with all my media is people come to me. And then I
talked to her for a while, kind of got to know her, and
then we decided to sign with her for a small like a small contract that
was basically saying she has like ten months to get all her things in a
row. She didn't really go into what she needed to do, but it
took about three years from that day that we signed to the time that it
was aired. And in the same month that I signed with her, I
had seven other people approached me. That's how great this story is. This
is interesting that coincidentally these other you're approached by other producers. How did that
even happen? Was it? Like? Was there an article about you that
came out and now suddenly producers were calling you? Like? How did that
go down? When I first escaped, I didn't want to talk in media
at all because I didn't see the point of it and I needed a support
system more. I needed to have people who knew me on the outside for
survival reasons. More than to be in the media, So for a long
time I just avoided it. It was actually when I got Warren Jeff's house
that I went public because I was looking for the Dream Center that is now
the Recovery Center. So if you watched like Inside Edition interview, but people
wanted to see the house because it's a high profiled house. So that's how
I got really big into media. Yes, we're going to talk extensively about
the Dream Center because I think that's just an amazing and amazing thing. So
really quickly, for those of you who have never heard of Prisoner of the
Prophet, never heard of Warren Jeffs, Brielle, give us a summary of
who you are and what the FLDS church is and who Warren Jeffs is.
Okay, So I was the sixty fifth wife of Warren Jeff's who is a
cult leader. I call it cult. Some people will shy away from that
word, but I don't. It's a cult. Yeah, it's a cult.
So sixty fourth wife is like he had sixty four one time. It's
not like he was a widower sixty three times and then to marry you.
These were all at the same time. She said, sixty fifth five.
Yeah, and he had seventy nine by the time he was imprisoned. That's
amazing. So let's talk about the movie a bit. Something that struck me
right from the beginning, as you said, you are proud to be an
apostate, right, and that hit me like, yeah, girl, be
proud. What does it mean to you to be an apostate? And I
want to know how that makes you so proud? Well, if you google
what an apostate means in the Greek form, I don't know if that matters
to you guys, but it says an apostate is a runaway slave. So
I'm like they probably knew that when they made all the people who left their
church called an apostate. I believe Jon Smith knew that. Yeah, they're
a runaway slave. So yeah, I mean he was back in the days
of slavery, so um, that would do there you go? That would
make sense? Says so much about that guy, know right, know right?
I mean being proud of it is like you escaped. Well, I'm
not a slave anymore. Why would I not be proud to be a runoy
slave? Free? I love it. One thing I was laughing at in
the beginning was you talked about how you were taught that dinosaur bones came from
other planets. We've talked about that before, and we call it the kitty
litter Scooper where God must have like on other planets and scooped up the dinosaur
bones with the kitty letter and thrown it into the Earth. And we laugh
about it all the time. And I couldn't remember where I got it from
it and then you said that, I'm like, oh my gosh, this
must come back from like the original Joseph Smith teachings for it to be in
my head as I was a mainstream Mormon. So my question is, you
can talk about more of that if you want, but I want to know
some of the weirdest things you were taught like weird. Growing up. I
didn't think they were weird, but now sure, right, So there's quite
a few of them. Like they did talk about in the documentary the Angels
that We're going to come and kill everyone that wasn't wearing long underwear. Oh
gosh, they talked about wow, yeah, the dinosaurs. Yeah, there's
quite a few different weird things like the lifting up, the lifting up,
the lifting up Warren Jess taught that the center steak of Zion in Missouri was
still the center steak and that in the destructions were going to come. That's
always a doctrine and Mormonism usually yep. And the righteous people who are good
enough not so there are some people in the church who are still not going
to qualify because they're not like living right. So according to Warren and Jeff's,
so the righteous people that are actually living the doctrine will be lifted off
the earth when the destructions come and then sit back down. Got then sit
back down, okay, like gently back down after the destructions. Yeah.
Wow, I hate capital h the word qualify right, that goes around so
much in Mormon and clearly FLDS talk that you have to be a certain way
to qualify. Hate that word for being saved for God to love you to
get to marry. Warren Jeff's like, all this be qualified stuff. Was
that in your head a lot, like I need to qualify? Yeah,
it was. That's the judgment part of it, I think. Yeah,
when they talk about you know, judging people, you know, tattling on
people. You know, if you see something that's not good enough, then
you know, it's all about the qualification. Yeah, especially in Warren Jeff's
group, he did capitalize on separating families over that one word. Basically,
he is like Jelala Smith Thoughtrine of the Missouri when they were kicked out of
Missouri. He said they were kicked out of Missouri because of getting under condemnation.
God said he sent a revelation the doctor incumnants that says they're under condemnation.
And so Warren Jeff stood up at church and said, I Am going
to decide who was still under condemnation and who is not, and I will
personally call the ones that are not and invite them to a new location to
live more of the laws. Wow. And that's how he started to separate
the families. He definitely is not about family. No, no, yeah,
not at all. Warren Jeff's is not about famili they're Jeves Well he
says it says he is because that's definitely a Mormon thing, you know,
family first, family first. But yeah, yeah, but the FLDS,
No, it's all about qualifying. Oh okay, is it also the belief
of like if only half of your family qualifies, and you're never going to
see that other half ever again well it's threatening, right, it's a way
to controls. Yeah, that's also a Mormon belief. You know if if
you know the celestial kingdom, did you guys have celestial celestial terrestrial? Yeah,
there's many mansions in heaven. Yeah, it's so trippy that this is
like cultier than culty, right, Yeah, but I know these things because
it was also taught in mainstream Mormonism. But it's almost like FLDS is mainstream
on supercrack, like like more trauma more. And I'm not trying to say
that I relate to you in a way that I understand. No, I
don't understand that level. But yeah, exactly, they took everything to the
biggest extreme that they could take it to. Then hesitate to just say Jealsea
Smith and Undridge bride, so we're going to have an undredge brides with kids,
you know, like everything to a new level. Yeah, what about
what the state thinks? Like the state is against polygamy and there aren't really
though they just made it legal in Utah. I'm pretty much not legal,
but it's like a parking ticket. They couldn't make it legal. They tried
that first, but because the Supreme Court said no, years ago they couldn't
make it legal, so they actually made it a parking ticket in Utah.
So they just kind of ignore it. Well, what you're saying is they
just ignore it. Well, they actually made it almost legal, as legal
as they could possibly make it. Right, right, right, what about
the pedophile aspect? How does Utah just turn a blind ida what's going on?
Well, it's Utah. Yeah, they have that in their history.
And they tried to say they don't, but like they do have enough history
with it, even with Brigham Young and yeah, they're not really that concerned.
It doesn't feel like yeah, because and I just thought of this when
you said that if you look at and of course Utah politics is basically run
by Mormons, Like that's just how it is. So if Mormons know that
in their past, like they'll never call it pedophilia, but underage marriages were
actually condoned and blessed by God for Joseph Smith, bring him Young, Lorenzo
Snow like all these profits. So they can't really get too mad at you
all. They'll just think that you're kind of off your rocker, you shouldn't
be doing it anymore. But we get it, so you know, we
can't really prosecute too harshly or will look like we are also bad because we
used to do this too. A lot of people say Warren Jeff's if he
was actually tried. He was tried in Utah, but they did let it
go for a technicality. Interesting, So you talked about how Warren Jeffs outlawed
toys. How old were you when that hit? He kind of outlawed like
certain kinds of first, like balls and you know, you couldn't play the
outside games because you're throwing our anger at people. Oh my gosh, that's
what he said. Yeah, okay, so he allowed those first, and
then it got to toys when I was in Texas, so all the kids
couldn't have dolls, they couldn't have any kind of anything. It was interesting
though, watching them anyway. They would just make them with their towels or
whatever. They just roll off the towel and play like it's a baby.
Anyway. Kids need toys, Yeah, they need toys. He would just
say, you need to let them have the real thing. If they're asking
for a doll, then you should just let them hold a baby. And
I don't know, I don't believe that. Yeah, but that's the same
thing with like if they want to put the toy truck, you know,
the younger and younger they would drive the big trucks in the fl thes and
oh wow, wow dangerous. Yeah. Did you see the way it all
that it affected kids for their just suddenly feel like God wants them to have
their playthings because they would think that God said, right, yeah, you
know if it comes through Warren Jeff's you know, that's how I was.
You know, I remember not questioning and all the peer pressure in school was
because I went to an FLDS homeschool. It was a so much peer pressure
to to why would anybody be in a postdate? Why would anybody leave?
Why would why would you know? I'm going to stay faithful forever? And
all our friends were they would talk that way because that was really the only
way we could talk because they had so many cameras and stuff in the school
building that you'd get punished if you're talking any other way. So then we
are all set on the right track all the time if we weren't talking that
way, and so then we get these convictions within ourselves that we're going to
be loyal forever. Yeah, and your girl up in your brain kind of
goes, oh, I don't even know what I was talking about. You
know, you kind of have to deny yourself to a degree. Yet the
first I see that, it happens, you know, mainstream Mormonism with the
bearing of testimonies. You know, you hear someone that you look up to
saying I know the Church's true. The Spirit guise me the profitable blat and
so you're like, oh, yeah, me too, me too, and
it just spreads. Yeah. I went to an ex Mormon event at one
time and there was two adult people that got up and one of them was
standing by the stand and the other one prompts her, I know the Aldias
Church is not true. I'd like to bear it was funny though, I'd
like to jump in for just a second. How did you end up in
Texas? I think we just need a little more backstory, like you did
you grow up in Utah? And then I can't remember exactly how you ended
up in Texas. I just think that people probably haven't seen the documentary.
A lot of people we want to we want to cater to them. Okay,
So I was born and raised in Sandy, Utah, which is more
Salt Lake area. I was born in the church my parents, my grandparents
saw on my father's side, they were kicked out when I was thirteen years
old. I got another mother when I was thirteen years old. My sister,
who was five years older than me, married Warren's father at that time
when I was thirteen years old, so we had like a barely big shift
in our family. My grandparents on my mother's side were converts and joined the
church when she was four years old. And then some contexts it's interesting to
most people is my parents were an arranged marriage. The prophet before Warren's dad
was his name was Leary Johnson, and he pulled them aside at church and
told them there was going to be a wedding and they could say yes or
know what the ceremony. And they had never met each other. Wow,
so they just it became a matter of trust and they decided to say yes
because there was no reason why not to say yes. And I was their
eleventh child, so wow. My father he had a lot more I believe
critical thinking, but he didn't talk a lot, and nobody wanted to hear
critical thinking talk. But his actions would show me that he was critical thinker.
He wouldn't always just jump on board. He'd sit there and think about
it for a while and then he would do something. And so like in
my mind, I think I learned critical thinking at a young age and to
do the same thing, to not voice it, but to act it the
best way I could in the situation. Well, I'm sure it wasn't encouraged
to voice any kind of critical nod. You get immediate pushments, so you
had to really think hard about how you're going to proceed. And he would
take that time to do that. So I knew he was a critical thinker.
I know what the wording for that was. And everything as a child,
so wait a minute, you were taken away from your parents. They
were kicked out or something. My grandparents, my father's parents were kicked out
when I was thirteen. Yeah, would they do? They watched TV Boston
too much? Threes Company or something back in the day, probably more like
Lucy or something. Anyway, my father didn't really go into details a lot
about that. We heard things, but he would when he pulled us all
into the living room to tell us that that had happened. When I was
thirteen years old, he seemed really sad, and he just told him,
we don't We're not going to talk about this. Basically, this is just
what happened. Were you allowed to stay in contact with them after they were
kicked out? No, And even like before that happened, My grandparents had
a station, so that's what their career. They had, like a gas
station that they managed. It still there in Sandy, Utah. They were
going to turn it over to my father because he's an amazing mechanic, but
the church told him he couldn't accept that gift. He had to become a
machinist with their company, and so anyway, he turned it down. He
did go to the machine shop and work there and learn all about that.
He became an amazing machine and mechanic. My uncle, one of father's brothers
that was outside of the church, actually was given the gift and accepted the
gift of the gas station. And a lot of my father's brothers and sisters
had already decided to become apostates, so they chose one of them because the
church wouldn't let the people that were loyal to the church. Did the apostates
that had left. I'm guessing they maybe tried to talk some sense or talk
to your dad about they did. I'm sure. Yeah. We used to
be able to go over to the station when he was just working there before
all this hit, and we were able to meet our grandparents and stuff.
Working at the station with my father would clean the bathrooms, we'd clean everything
up. It's called Union Service. It's still there. It's kind of an
old station. But yeah, anyway, my uncle runs it, and my
father he did, he did a lot. He made a lot of choices
in his life to stay with his family at the spence of material things,
which was you know, our house in Sandy, Utah. Eventually, so
I did go to the Alta Academy school that was in Sandy, Utah.
That was the school I went to with Warren Jeffs as the principal. My
first grade teacher was Warren Jets's first wife. So my childhood was very FLDS.
Yeah, and then when I was like fourteen, then the Jeffs moved
down to Clarado City. I was in seventh and eighth grade. When I
was in tenth grade, halfway through the year, then we moved down to
Clarado City ourselves. So I was sixteen years old when that happened, and
I went to the Jeff's Academy when I came down to Clarado City for about
a year and a half. So real quick, let me interject. So
you started this in Sandy Utah, those of you who don't know Utah,
Sandy Utah is not a polygamous area. It's like a regular old part of
Utah. Did your neighbors, you know, your community know that you all
were fl the yes. Did you wear the garb, the dresses and stuff.
We couldn't associate with our neighbors very much. We had about half an
acre of land that we couldn't talk to our neighbors. If my parents went
over to my neighbor's house, it was like or serious thing. So it's
not like you mingled with the mainstream people and not some people did some people
at that time frame. And that's I believe the reason why Warren Jeff took
everybody down to Colorado City because it's an older compound to keep it more isolated.
So I got to experience going into the storage with my mother and just
like seeing people come up to us and smile at us or tell us our
hair was pretty, or you know, I got to see some of that
stuff, and so that actually did shift my perspective to what I was hearing
in church. Everybody was bad, everybody wants to go after you on the
outside, and that just didn't ring true for me because I had had my
own personal experiences. So when I got in crisis in my life, I
would think back on those experiences and think, well, maybe there's some hope
on the outside. Yeah, yeah, there's actually nice people. It's not
all the devils trying to get you. But some of the children nowadays don't
have that, so right, Yeah, it seems like another cult tactic too,
right, tell you the members of the cult that everyone on the outside
is evil and they're out to get you. It's just another way to keep
you in trapped in the belief system. Fear. Fear is how a cult
keeps people in. Would that would you say that, Brial, Yes,
Yes, it's definitely fair based in the fls, everything is like, you
know, we'll take away your family, it will take away your you're everything,
right, you know, And my father held on to his family so
tightly for so long. He did go down to Cuara City and sell his
house in Sandy and he did move into us the house with just stud walls
and donate all the money to the church and to the community in Clara City,
and he did build up the house that we were like, we had
a part of a house, so we moved in. Somebody else lived in
half the house and they had started the house that we were finishing off on
the other side, so it wasn't ever our house. And you lived in
Texas before you married Warren Jeffs Is that right after? Oh? After?
Yeah, so I moved to Colorado City, which is hillel Utah and Arizona.
Yeah, so you actually lived in Texas because you were kicked out and
had to go to Texas because you were misbehaving. Right, No, I
went to Texas because that's where the Yearning for Zion Ranch was. The elite
group. Oh you were the elite. Yeah, I was elite. Yeah,
because I married Warren and he was like, okay, you know,
like it was two weeks after my wedding because I had already started to see
red flags on the day that I married him. Wow. So, Shelley,
this sounds like a good time for a break. I agree. We'll
be right back and we're back. Hello. So when your wife number sixty
five, how often do you even really get to see your husband? For
one thing, I wasn't attracted to him, so like I didn't really want
to see him. And there was a lot of doctrine that talks about how
you supposed to love your sisters. Wives supposed to like sacrifice for them,
and so Warren's father had a rotation cycle where like every wife would get a
turn, but Warren didn't actually have that. He had a favorite wife,
and he would he's basically a monogamous. All the other ladies, he'd tell
them God would reveal if you're ever worthy to be with me? Oh got
qualified? Yeah, So for me, I was most of the time in
the beginning, I was like, oh, I don't want to turn,
so I would just like sacrifice for my wife, you know, situ wife
if they want to be with him and all that, like you know,
I'm like, okay, you know, I'll hide. Do you guys can
go have that? You know I don't need that. You're good there,
Yeah at it, you can have him. So I didn't get hurt real
bad by polygamy itself because I didn't love my husband. If I would have
loved him. I know I would have been different. Why do you think
you were selected? I really feel like I had something to do with being
a new wife or something. I don't know. He had really weird motives
behind everything, and I think he also looked for certain characteristics of how he
can manipulate people more. Were you younger than most of the wives when you
came in? I was eighteen. He thought I was younger than that though,
What a disappointment. Yeah, she was legal. He thought my younger
sister was older than me, and just I don't know, like in the
real world, it switched a guy. I'll be like, oh, I
thought she was an adult. Don't you don't take me to jail? But
now you know war just as like I thought she was thirteen. I never
would have married an old totally. Oh so crazy. Yeah, in my
story I did. I've learned some stuff since the documentary too, with like
people coming forward and telling me right at the wedding, he actually told the
family to keep me at arm's length and stuff like that. I didn't realize
that it wasn't a big wedding, it was like a private one. But
right after that he talked to his family and I didn't know that. Wait,
he wanted your family to keep you at arm's length. That's what he
was requesting his family, his family. Why do you think that is?
He told him I was crazy from the very beginning. I didn't know that
until after the documentary came out. Like people want to tell me things.
They said, we couldn't step up and help you, even we knew you
needed it, but we couldn't help you because he would publish us. Oh
my gosh. Wow, everyone was so afraid of this guy. I know,
Well, I feel like, I mean, i'd be afraid of someone
who would take my kids away. Like I think about my choices are either
I do what God says in quotations or my kids get taken away. Well,
I'm going to do what I think God said. I mean, that's
kind of a no brainer, right, if you've been brainwashed into a cult.
Going on those same lines, when you were honored to Mary Warren,
Jeff, did you have any ounce of feeling special at all? I felt
terrified because I'd already seen what my sister had gone through, So you didn't
feel like you were chosen. I knew a lot about his family. I
knew more so you were never proud of that selection process, like, oh
he picked me, no, because I wasn't in the category that I would
be very accepted. He has characteristics he picks out, you know, to
be manipulated easier. And one of those characteristics is basically something I had no
control over, which was my generational heritage. If you have seven generations of
being in the church, you're probably more brainwashed. But he didn't say that.
He said, do you have more knowledge of the church, And those
would be more more of the people that he would at the top of the
pyramid in his family. Yeah, yea, the brainwashed ones. And I
wasn't going to be there. I would never have kids. That's how my
thinking was, I'll never have kids, you know. But I didn't never
say no to him. Sure, so from the time you knew year we
had to marry him, how long was it until the actual wedding, Like,
how does that go down? It was like the same day. Whoa,
Yeah, I knew that. He taught us the doctrine the grooming of
how that day would go, and there's like three different routes and so that
day I actually had a party at school. I was an assistant in for
fourth grade students. We had a big party that day. I cleaned up
the mess and then I came home. I was on cook that evening for
the family, and I was supposed to make stew. That's what my mother
wanted me to make. So I was in cutting up all the vegetables.
And it was late. It was like ten o'clock at night. Like I
hadn't gone up very far because I spend all day already, and I didn't
realize I was on cook. I was in finishing up the stew and my
father walked in the room and my back was to him, but I heard
my mother scream no, and I turned around and my father's face is all
flushed and my mother, I was hurry, eleventh child, so she had
seen this before. Yeah, So my father, he said, let's go
on a drive. My mother was not invited to the wedding. And when
I got in the car, my father was crying. He couldn't tell me
why. Now he has told me. He said, I didn't want you
to marry Warren Jeffs. But he didn't know at that time I was even
get to marry Warren Jess. But everybody had that in their mind. Like
because all my childhood, I guess I was teased a lot about Mary Warren
Jeffs, and I think a lot of it had to do with there's two
factors. The way he acted toward me factored into it a lot. And
also I believe I was kind of like a I was scared to do wrong
because of like the bullies of my family. So I didn't dare cross lines.
I was afraid of being kicked out at a young age because eight years
old is basically when you get baptized in the LDS church and also in the
FLDS, and so in the FLDS they were so strict that when you're eight
years old, either you atone for yourself or your parents will atone for you.
And so basically you have to get baptized or your parents will suffer for
you. Wow. And what's that suffering involved? It depends if you do
something bad, Okay. Yeah, So I didn't want to do anything wrong
because I was eight, you know, like I was afraid of being sent
away. And there were eight year olds who the FLDS dropped off at places
because they were too rebellious. Yeah, and never would be healed from it.
According to their profit. Wow. Wow, I'm a nine year old
and I can't send her away. I can't imagine sending I mean sometimes it'd
be nice, but like to send away forever. It's hard for me to
understand how a parent would allow that. But that just goes to show how
deep the brainwashing is that a parent would allow that, and also that you
have to realize these parents were put under like this decision where they either lose
all of their kids because they get kicked out with the eight year old,
or they kick out the eight year old. Wow, I don't know.
I think as a parent, I would choose all everybody goes. I couldn't.
I couldn't do that. And that's what some parents did choose, and
they would go the court route to try to get the rest of their kids,
which is the best route actually, but they don't always see that.
And that's the same thing with like the underage brights. That's why some of
them got married because the fathers were in that same predicament. They either had
to give up the one child or lose all of them, and some of
them chose the wrong thing. Where would a kid go if they're kicked out?
Like if you talk to Holding Out Help, which is a nonprofit in
Salt Lake City. They they were they've been around, one of the longest
nonprofits in this field. They have had eight year olds brought to them.
Wow. And there's been worst cases. They have dropped them off on the
highway, you know, just worst things. But oh my gosh that in
most cases they you know, the police will pick them up. But like
most cases, the parents tried a little harder to find something, Yeah,
like a relative they could go to or some yeah, something on the outside
that did you know of parents who when when their daughter qualified to Mary Mary
Warren Jeffs, the parents celebrated, like they were so happy about this or
was it all just miserable? When I talked to even like, I had
a best friend who was in the category with the seven generations and all of
that, and one time I confided in her and I was like, I
am so scared to Mary Warren jeff everybody teaches me about that, and she's
like, that would be such an honor, and I was like, maybe
for you, but she hadn't tell her that, And I was thinking,
yeah, her family, her mothers would talk about when their daughters because they
had several of them that went into Warren Jeff's family and their mothers would say,
it's like going to a funeral because it's like he takes them and we
never see him anymore. Wow. Man, But yet these mothers do they
still believe in it and they're just afraid to leave or they just so trying
to compare for me being a girl in Mormonism, like you get the shaft,
right, It's like you don't get anything because you're a girl, but
you just believe that that's what God wants and you just kind of have to
suck it up and feel like you're less than and that's just how it is.
Yeah, how do you compare that with how moms would feel with these
things they have to go along with they think it was true. Well,
it depends varies from one person to the other. And that's why I have
so much compassion even today for FLDS people. It's because a lot of them
aren't there because they believe in it. They're there because they can't talk about
it. You can't tell all the time which ones really believe in it and
which ones don't because they can't actually tell you the truth. The ones that
don't believe in it, have a cause most of the time to protect their
kids or protect their mother, elderly mother. They don't all have a place.
The Dream Center doesn't take elderly they don't have licensing for that. They're
mostly geared to children and single moms and stuff. So we need more resources
what I'm saying, Yeah, absolutely, but a lot of them stay for
a cause. They're all believers. And not only that, the ones that
do believe in it, they have to go by faith. Like I have
knowledge that it was horrible. Not everybody has that knowledge because not everybody was
elite, didn't all go to Texas, they didn't all have the same experiences
in Texas. You know, I was a warrant, just family, So
I have knowledge. It would be ridiculous for me to keep trying to fake
it, you know, that would be totally something like I couldn't even do.
Did people kind of know within the compound who may or may not be
believing or just going along with it? Was? Could you tell? Like
you can tell that some of them are like more lenient or more more willing
to cross a line here and there, but you can't tell if they really
believe or not because there's some people who really will turn you in and really
will hurt you even though they crossed their own line sometimes, like it's kind
of you know, you can't always tell. You can tell they have different
characteristics and stuff, but you can't tell if they really believe gotcha. And
a lot of times they'll turn new in just for their own safety. And
sometimes they'll turn new in because they don't like you. Wow, So just
you know, I don't I don't like what she said in school and she's
not being friendly, so I'm gonna go tattle on her for like no damn
good reason, just get you in trouble. Yeah, So there's those,
and then there's also sometimes they get threatened into doing it by somebody else.
So it's it's a pretty big mess, especially with Warren Jeffs being in prison,
yeah, because he can't verify any of it without like listening to someone.
So people still tattle to where Warren Jeff's through a line of isn't his
brother kind of running the show right now? He has a son who's stepping
up, son out to be the proa after Warren. After Warren dies,
he's just like, yeah, kind of nominated right now. Boys, growing
into men. You see them trying to climb the ladder like I want to
be the next prophet or yeah, I don't know, what do you think.
Yeah, there's been two people step up. So now if they follow
FLDS, it doesn't necessarily mean they follow Warren Jeffs. But if they follow
Warren Jeff's it's detrimental because he pedophilia in the doctrine. When you say it's
in the doctrine, like, is it written down somewhere that pedophilia is?
Okay, he did it in a secret meeting. So even though a lot
of FLDS will say it's not true, but the history shows that it is
true, because like there's been two leaders that have stepped up to follow Warren
Jeff's who were in Texas at one time, and the first one has already
been rated just in the last year or so. Okay, that's that's on
the documentary they found. Well they talk about it in there, but like
this last year they actually rated him and he did have underage rights and all
that going on. So send him a jail, send him all a jail.
So I tell people, I said, yeah, FLDS are kind of
like, we don't believe that or and Jeff's really did that, because I
have to believe somebody because they weren't always all there. Of course, we
don't believe he really did that, but I tell him, well, you
would do it again, probably with the right leader. Yeah, yeah,
right, that's when the history shows that. Yeaheah. They don't believe it's
happening, but when they get into the tight situation, they wake up.
But it's kind of too late. So we are going to leave that.
They're part one of a two parter. We're gonna have Brielle again on next
time for the rest of the interview. It's so good, guys. No,
I hope everybody listens in again. From part two of that interview.
Brial Decker, Prisoner of the Profit Wife sixty something, sixty five sixty five.
Okay, So we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
we've got a foom pot. Yeah, when we come back, we
will cute music. O wow, we get I just want to get people
inside because they haven't done a boom pot in a while. We stumbled across
one and Shelly's gonna speak you in music Oliver again a bit duh. Okay,
be right back. We're back cute music. So this foom pod came
about. This was like a like a natural organic foom pod. We were
just talking. I don't even know what we're talking about, and I said,
this thing, you're like what I think it was in this episode.
I mean, it's been a minute since i've listened. It probably was.
Yeah, we're recording this in pieces, y'all. That's our lives. Like
we literally don't have two hours to sit and do shit any and hopefully this
all comes together. It might not. It might be like a beautiful patchwork
quilt. And that's okay because if you're a Mormon or X Mormon, you've
you've quilted before. Total stereotype. But I mean, come on, you're
right. Have you quilted? Um? Not for beginning to end. But
my mom had like the big like quilt wooden bar thingies that like take up
all this room. Um, and I might have done one stitch because she
showed me. And I'm like, boring, I want to go play basketball.
Yeah, boring, mom, hang out with the men. I'm gonna
ride my dirt bike. I had the best little dirt bike, so fun
little motorcycle, you know, you might be a lesbian. You know,
some people could have fucking fooled me. Should we get to the food pot
already? Nine? Today's fucked up Mormon phrase of the day is son of
perdition. That would be son of perdition, go, son of perdition.
You know, I have no idea what this word. I know this like
this. This was a movie. I don't know if it though. Okay,
it didn't pretend to more. Movie was Road to Perdition with Tom Hanks
was righting awesome? Okay, I never saw it. My point is that
perdition is probably a word I should just know well, and I don't know
it. I don't know what it means. What does it mean? You
have to guess you can get the ball? You mean it was? Do
you mean to say partition? Nope? Son of partition? Nope. That's
even more weird um than the actual definition. I don't know what this means.
You know what means? No, I don't know what perdition means?
What will you not raise Mormon? No, that's a better eat. Maybe
it's some sort of prodigal son thing like no, you're some sort of wayward
child. No, okay, let's put it in the opposite direction. You're
so stalwart. Nope, you're you're, You're somewhere in the middle. Nope,
you're you could go. No, just give me the fucking buzzer already.
What does it mean? Who the fuck is a son of pition?
I realize now, me being raised Mormon, I thought that everything was Mormon,
of course, but I looked when I looked it up to get like
an actual exact definition, it's it's Biblical, like Christians know this shit.
So I don't know why you don't know it, a little miss Mary,
I don't have the Bible memorize for gods. Okay, well, the son
of perdition is a term that refers to a person who is in an your
redeemable condition and who will suffer eternal destruction. So that could be kind of
like a prodigal son, right, because the prodigal son came back the sons
of pridition? Can't are you looking it up? I just end it up.
I know. It says a state of eternal punishment and damnation. Yeah,
into which a sinful and unpenitent person passes after death. So this is
a this is a after we die punishment. Yeah, of course, but
I'm not done yet. So that was the first definition that popped up,
and I'm like, hmm, let me type that in and put Mormon next
to it. So, of course, Mormons no more than everyone's, so
their definition. So the little Wikipedia definition for the first one was like four
sentences. When you type in the Mormon part, we're like page after page
after page, because Mormons have a lot to say about all the things they
know. Okay, okay. In the Church of Jesus christilarity saints, a
son of tradition is a person who will not take part in the glory of
God in the afterlife. This is in contrast to the vast majority of people
who will receive a kingdom of glory after the final judgment and enter into one
of the three degrees of glory after the resurrection. Mary, do you remember
these three degree Oh you mean the celestial, terrestrial, and and uh to
telestial. You got it. You're almost a Mormon. Okay. Most Latter
day Saints believe that the sons of pradition will be cast into outer darkness.
Wait you know what that another? Yeah? Of course, what yeah do
you think? Are we new here? We've talked about it yeah, you're
saying, I've been very busy lately, kidding me right now? You think
I don't know what outer darkness is? Have you been there? You can't,
and you know why. You're a girl. Let me carry on.
Girls can't go to Mormon scriptures. Can I read what this is? New
information? Mormon scriptures do not use this exact phrase and connection with the sons
of pradition, but state that they shall go away into the Lake of Fire
and brimstone with the devil and his angels. So that's who is in outer
darkness. I thought outer darkness wasn't so bad. People have different definitions of
what outer darkness literally, outer darkness could have been focuse you are. Some
people are like, it's not so bad, it's just not the best thing.
No, that would be the celestial kingdom. Huh okay, so the
devil has confuse outer darkness, not just the devil, the devil and his
angels. What it's the exact same thing as hell? Then sure. However,
according to Mormonism, like hell is anything where you don't get to be
with your heavenly Father, which would be like the lowest two kingdoms, not
confusing, So God never visits the lower two kingdom can but why would he
like we suck? I don't want my family visiting me either. To wait
a minute, what how do you get to be a son of predictions?
I'm telling you, I'm reading this is the longest definition of it. Well,
because Mormons have to like decide whatever thing is and more of it.
Um, I'm just gonna keep reading. Sorry if it's boring, but I
think it's pretty damn interesting because it's weird. The name Perdition is sometimes regarded
as a proper name that refers to either Lucifer or Kane, both of whom
are symbols of ultimate e Ooh, so the son of Perdition is really the
son of the devil, one of them? What do you mean, one
of them? Maybe he's the original the og. Mister, that's mister Perdition
to you. Okay. So I guess if according to Mormon theology, Jesus
and Lucifer were brothers, which would make them both the son of God somehow.
So if you're a son of Perdition, then you're the grandchild of God.
God, your God, your no. That means that yeah, God,
you're the no, you're the og, Like perdition. Person. I
thought perdition is another word for Satan. Yeah, my theology didn't play very
well. So all right, though I have a question though, okay,
but I have more, but go ahead, all right, Well, I
just keep reading. Okay, okay, say, we're getting into some major
Mormon theology here, and it's hilarious. How long is the sky? Just
you're gonna learn who knows? Who might come across another food pot? The
pre mortal spirit followers of Satan, Yeah, okay. It is taught that
in the pre mortal life they chose to follow a plan proposed by Satan rather
than that presented by God the Father. In parenthesis, Heavenly Father, Jesus
the Christ chose to follow Heavenly Father's plan. Jesus the Christ, Jesus the
Christ kids. Clean up your rustle because that's all you ever hear me,
or it just always needs cleaning. M blah blah blah, goes onto the
war in heaven, YadA, YadA. We all know this, Okay.
Those in mortal life who deny the Holy Ghost, which is generally interpreted as
rejecting and denying Christ after receiving a personal witness and a perfect knowledge of Jesus.
Like, then you can fucking be a son of perdition. Oh,
so you have to be given the opportunity to reject, which is why women
can't do that. What are you? What are you talking about? I'm
getting there. So this is what Joseph Smith said. All sins shall be
forgiven, except for sins against the Holy Ghost, for Jesus will save all
except the sons of perdition. What must a man due to commit the unpartable
sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens open unto him,
and no God, and then sin against him. After a man has
sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. Well,
isn't this the definition of man? Kind of like human finish? Were about?
We're about We're about to get to the point. He has got to
say that the sun does not shine while he sees it. He has got
to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to
deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it.
When did the heavens ever open? And you see Jesus, when does this
happen? Well, it happened to me yeah, could have happened to you.
And you're like, that never happened. Then you are a son of
perdition. How do you approve it? Either way? God knows everything.
But wait a minute, Mary, trying to make sense of nonsense again.
And women can't be included in this group. Well, there's a section here
called daughters of perdition. I'm glad you asked. Okay, a few LDS
church leaders have speculated weather and not there would be daughters of perdition as well
as sons of perdition. All I know is if they were both, they
would both be like TK smoothies because they'd be an outer darkness together. Well
yeah, and they wouldn't be able to have sex. Whatever, This is
not the point of the conversation. In eighteen sixty, church president who We
All Love, Brigham Young, stated, I doubt whether it can be found
from the revelations that are given and the facts as they exist, because he
knows everything. News that there is a female in all the regions of hell.
Women must atoned for sins committed by the volition of her own choice.
But she will never become an angel to the devil and sends so far to
place herself beyond the reach of mercy. In the same discourse, he says
she is not accountable for the sins that are in the world. God requires
obedience from man. He is lord of creation, and in his hands the
sins of the world will be required. So Brigham Young is saying that women
cannot be sons or daughters or whatever predition, right, because it's a man
thing. It's a man thing. Let's put that in context. Context.
Because it's a man thing, what has to happen for you to even have
that available to you? To be a son of perdition, you have to
see God. So women can't see God. Boom, We can't have the
good shit. You can't have that experience of that spiritual exp It's that closeness
where that revelation, the clouds parting or whatever the fuck the heaven's opening up
and you're seeing Jesus the Christ. Yeah, I don't have a chance to
see Jesus and be like that never happened. I don't get to right,
don't get the opportunity to deny Jesus the Christ. Clean up your room.
Yeah, sure, because we were not intelligent or something enough. Now we're
we're less than yeah, so the church too simple for those types of revelations.
Who is the priesthood? Why would God come to us? They might
come to our husband because he's in charge of us. Mm So speculation amongst
Mormons, and I don't know if this is ever actually taught. You know
how Mormons have to like talk talk talk and make up their own like shit,
if you say so, it's true, it's true. So speculation was
probably still is that the only people who could qualify for being a Son of
British would be like prophets, because prophets see God. I see, so
you really have to have that experience and reject it, and that's the only
way to go to Are those the only people in outer darkness? So the
people that have had the experience and then reject it. Yes, so it's
only men in outer darkness. Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say.
Yeah, well I didn't know if there was another way to get to
utter darkness. No, it's not like Candyland where you roll a purple and
then I was really stupid, liked it though it was late at night.
I'm sire punchy. Interesting. I didn't know that women did not make up
the population, shall we say of outer darkness? No, because we're a
residents there, we can never be holy enough to have the exact oppose.
So it's kind of the Mormon version of a penal colony. Basically, he
said penals, which is actually pretty accurate. Well, penile, because it's
only men there. I know what penal means. I get it. Okay,
all right, all right, who what's happening? Okay, son of
pridition. So there is no daughter perdition, which makes me kind of feel
good in a way because means we don't have to hang out with it.
I don't have to pretend to ever see some sort of fake experience and then
reject that fake experience later. Well, and no, you have it all
wrong because it was If it was a fake experience, you can't reject it
because it was fake in the first place. It had Like according to theology,
you have to have an actual, true legit like Jesus Christ high five,
he's there, He's like, I am the Christ. Look at the
holes in my hands, and then you're like, man, fuck that remember
the true the sure sign of the nails and the wrist, that's true?
And why do you remember why I don't know. I'm just serious. You
don't know why handshake that the sure sign is in the wrist? Yeah?
Why why? I don't ris from the freaking Temple episodes? Why is the
nail on the wrist just writing down? I'm running down next foon pond?
Oh my neck? Good? Well, I think it's all goofy anyway.
Because these types of things are very personal, you can't share them with someone.
Meaning, let's say you're having a prayer circle jerk with your bush mixing
lots of metaphors here, didn't hear that? It's like, if you have
this personal experience where the clouds part and you see Jesus the Christ, let's
say your buddy who's praying with you or whatever isn't going to have the same
experience. So how do you even prove sauce it doesn't have to be your
buddy saying, hey, he saw Jesus and he says he didn't. Right,
No, that's well, then how do you prove that you even had
a bunch of people telling on each other. You don't prove it, you
don't like like, well, then they can't prove that you're going to some
fake hell place either. It's all fake. Anyway, it happens after you
die and God decides, decides. Oh, God's the one. So God
said, well, all right, you back in nineteen eighty had the opportunity
we had that, We had that moment, I had that broad moment.
You saw me, You saw the sure sign of the nails. You.
God's not the neighborhoods some fucking neighborhood watch being like the neighbor you saw.
Yeah, it's like we had that moment and you said you rejected me Spanish
to Outer Darkness. That's kind of how that's gonna go down totally. I'm
still my brainst on neighborhood watch for sons of tradition. God, Well,
they're gonna need a neighborhood watching Outer Darkness. I think dark Street task one.
All those men, there should be someone handy. Pradition doesn't take to
change. Nice. That's funny. Well we are. Yeah, that's a
good one though. That's great, Thanks for playing sure. I always enjoy
good film. All right, Well, let's jump into some patron names.
I just had an idea how we should give them their new names. All
right, what you got I'm thinking first letter of last name. Right,
we need to come up with things that you would find in outer darkness.
Okay, that sounds like what was the game like the Pyramid or whatever,
sixty thousand Pyramid where they would just list things car, boat, blah blah
blah, and then then they answer would be like things you drive. You
know, I'm talking about things without headlights right because it's outer darkness. I
don't think there are any lights. No, I mean it would be outer
lightness at that point. That's all I got. Okay, I'm ready,
we'll try it, okay, Patron number one, and again everyone, thank
you for being our patrons. Those of you who are recently joining from listening
to episodes from like three years ago, just understand that we've slowed down.
Once you get here, we've slowed the fuck down. Might hear my name
in like three years? Yeah, we're getting to him, but you will
get your new name, all right. New Patron number one, Laurel H.
What's an H that you would find an outer darkness? Find something with
an H an outer darkness? Well, a hellish amount of trash, heaps
heaps of trash, all right, Laurel, heap heaps heaps of trash.
The full thing Laurel, heaps of tra I just feel like there's gonna be
trash everywhere. You can't see anything, but you know there's tras. It
probably smells. It probably smells there. Yeah, I would think it's outer
dark and probably it smells like sulfur because of fire and brimstone. When you
think, God, that's so smart, is it? Yes? Ok?
Who's our next patron? Next patron, Jessica? M are you taking this?
I got this one in outer darkness. Outer darkness will be full of
Mormon men. Okay. I can't think of a worse hell. And it's
not because I'm a man hater. I am not a man hater. I
love my man friends, I love my son's I love a lot of men,
Mormon men. It's a little more difficult. So yeah, Outer darkness
a bunch of fucking Mormon men. That's what you'll find. Don't go there.
If you ever see Jesus, don't say you didn't see him. That's
your warning, right, Just pretend it's all pretend anyway. If you see
him, don't say you didn't, right, he won't be an outer dark
roast. Sorry, just I just threw in a plug for a posta coffee.
Do you like how I did that? Did you go on purpose?
Yeah? I didn't. Right on? Get ten percent off your order and
a posta coffee dot com by putting LDL and check out. Why you remembered
all that? And do you get a check out and put in our code
LDL. I get ten percent off because I think that's what happened. Well,
do it and see it's been a bit and drink the Outer Dark Roast.
Maybe that will prevent you for going to out. I don't know.
I think it probably takes you there. But no, no, take it
to go cup because you're gonna need that for your journey to utter. Yeah,
there won't be that. Can we back up a secure? But I
don't think that Mary actually still understands outer darkness. Evidently it's full of men.
Well, yeah, but you said something about, like you see Jesus,
you're rejecting me, he says, outer darkness. No, he doesn't
banish you right away. It's like you think you're living this great life and
then you die and God's like, not so fast. Charlie. Remember that
time you remember that the Lord and save Jesus Christ, Jesus the Christ,
me and my son who's actually also boom. You think you're going to blaze
special, but you're going to outer darkness. Hell yeah, that's exactly Take
that cup of outer dark roast with you, gonna need it, apostate coffee,
nap dot com yours now, I love it all right? Next up,
Rose b B Huh yeah you know none of these names are going to
be great this week. Sorry. Yeah, we still appreciate our patrons absolutely,
but I think, uh, banished saints, that's what you find in
utter darkness. That is so boring. Wow, Mary, Rose, I
am so sorry. Well what do you got. I'm just gonna say,
like bad people. Oh, that's so much banished saints. It's a little
just more intellectual way of saying bad people. How about bats? The bats
fly around at night? Sure? All right, so um Rose, you're
getting lots of last names. Rose, you're getting banished saints, bats,
and bad guys. Okay, that is your name, No hyphens, we're
not hyphenating today. You gotta run them all together. Write that down.
That'll be fun on a on a license. Real deadlines coming up? So
I got minor ready, Yeah, I mean too? Okay, is that
all the No, there's two more exactly five. Okay, what you get,
Betsy S. Betsy S, I'm going sinners? What you got fine,
Betsy, sinners and stupidity. Oh you were going to do stupidity.
Yeah. Then I felt bad for Betsy, So I'm sorry about that.
I just think it's stupid this discussion about outer darkness. No, outer darkness,
like the theology of outer darkness is stupid. Well, and also,
can't you just fake it? Like? Can't you just be like so Jesus
it's all cool. No, it's not like a human experience. Again,
no neighborhood watch on this one. It's between you and the Lord. M
Okay, Betsy, and that one was bad. Yeah, we're sorry,
Betsy. Feel free to blame Shelley for that one. I mean I tried.
Next and last is per neil e. Can I do this one?
Yeah? I feel like bola. Oh, I think everyone has ebola in
outer darkness. It just seems like a like a bad way to be I'm
even exactly sure what ebola is. I know it's a disease and I know
people die from it. Yeah. Wow, disease is rampant in outer darkness.
Speaking of bad smells, subonic plague. It's gonna be all there.
I think problaim a girl. No, right, the one time it worked
worked in our favor the one time. Yeah huh, but it still has
to do with the fact that we're lesser. But I'll take it. Yeah,
we're not even good enough for the worst punishment. Women I feel like
in Mormonism are just ornaments. They're ornaments. Yeah, yeah, they're just
sort of there, um their vessels for babies. That's it. Yeah,
pretty much. Well, sorry, and thank you, patrons. I was
a weird one. I'm gonna keep note and if any of these patrons drop
off this episode hits the air waves, we'll be like, fuck, shouldn't
have called her smelly? See? Oh my god, whose idea is this?
I was like, what if we come up with stuff that is not
an outer dark? But that would be everything? Okay, all right,
well you're right except for the smelly garbage, and well, I just thought
it would be more entertaining to have it like our version of was whatever,
can we work? Can we wrap this up? Yeah? We can?
Uh? Sorry, everybody, Thank you so much for your patronage. If
you would like to show us a little love, please head over to latter
day Lesbian dot org slash support. We really appreciate it for real, and
so sorry we're not cranking these out like we used to. We're sad about
it too. We're gonna, you know what, We're gonna record a Scandal
session and maybe talk about that right now, talk about what's going on right
over this we can, Okay. Let us also thank Dan from Extension Audio,
thanks for leaving it in at you. Thank you again to Brielle Decker,
and we'll have you back again next time and conclude that interview. Looking
forward to that. Hang on, do you think it's sad for Dan that
he only gets to leave it in once a month or so these days?
Maybe he's getting a little on the side. Oh, maybe we've got to
talk about that on the Scandal Weird Night side piece. Okay, sorry,
digress, digress. All right, everybody please dare Claire those fucking calls because
they're no joke, no joke at all. Talked to you later. Bye,