WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:04.719 Bottled Up Bitches is hosted by a horny Mary couple. Content may include adult 2 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:08.919 language and themes. Check the description for more details if your discretion is advised. 3 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:12.320 So you came here because you thought you were going to see some four 4 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:25.719 you are. It's season three. Welcome to Bottle Up Bitches, your favorite 5 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:30.640 sex podcast with me Rihanna Campbell and Me producer man Adam Rihanna. Are you 6 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:33.600 ready for some hot topics and even hotter guests? Well, you know I 7 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:40.799 am. Let's do this, see Horney bitches and you guys thought we were 8 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:47.679 on a break. We were on we were on a break. That's a 9 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:50.840 friends reference, and I've never seen friends in my life. I've seen a 10 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:53.359 couple of episodes. Yeah, had enough to I feel like qualify to make 11 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:57.560 that reference. That's fine because I use a racheling like as a daily lingo 12 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.960 for I don't wear bra? Is that what that means? Yeah, Rachel, 13 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.480 Jeffer Andison notoriously doesn't work a bra and the world was a better place 14 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:07.760 for it. How are you today? I'm excited? Yeah, you has 15 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:11.760 some fun things going on. So we uh, we interrupt your season three 16 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:17.239 break to come out a little surprise episode because your favorite sex podcast, Bottle 17 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:23.640 Bitches. This part of the south By Southwest Edu, a little education slice 18 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:26.920 of south By Southwest. Look at us go, look at us go. 19 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:30.319 And so yeah, and you may be hearing um a lot of background noise. 20 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.680 We are in a we are not in a studio space. We're kind 21 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:37.879 of in a big kind of open open space and they're setting up the event 22 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:40.719 as we do this. We just wanted to do real live recording, live 23 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:42.120 recording. Yeah, so we're here. We were fuck it, we're doing 24 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:45.439 it live. Fuck it, we're doing it live. We are here with 25 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:53.599 that for cursing. No, but also like I encourage anyone who invites us 26 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.560 to be part of an event to listen to our episodes just to know they're 27 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:00.959 getting themselves into. We will curse and I will not wear a brawl, 28 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:04.280 and that's how I roll, just like Rachel, just like Rachel herself, 29 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.599 not wearing a brawl and person like a sailor. That's how I do. 30 00:02:07.039 --> 00:02:12.319 UM. But we were invited here today by the Porn Conversation, which is 31 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:16.520 a nonprofit started by Erica Lust. And I've talked about Erica Lust consistently on 32 00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:22.280 this podcast. I am constantly talking about how incredible her work is and if 33 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:27.400 you haven't listened to those episodes. Erica Lust is a Spanish She's of Spain, 34 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:31.560 she lives in Spain, and she is a writer, director, creator 35 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:38.879 of female centric porn. It is the porn us women deserve. It's really 36 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:45.400 beautiful and intimate and just, I don't know, just amazing is the best 37 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:47.840 way seeing female centric porn. I would hope that you understand that it's just 38 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:51.479 going to be made better because females do it better. Yeah, there's not 39 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:53.680 going to be a woman trapped in a washing machine and that her step brother 40 00:02:53.719 --> 00:03:00.439 has to fish out penis. Yeah. Yeah, storyline story always say that 41 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:01.680 I'm looking for the story. I'm looking for the story, and that's the 42 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:05.800 clapp back is like the story as she's stuck in the dryer. So that's 43 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:09.319 a female centric for us means. But Porn Conversation is a non profit. 44 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:17.120 They provide tools for families and educators to talk about sex with young people, 45 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:23.800 and I'm very excited about it. It's something that we all need. They 46 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:30.719 specifically focus on porn literacy and I'm excited to learn more about exactly what that 47 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:32.960 means. I think you and I have like a bubble idea of what it 48 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:38.039 means. What does porn literacy mean to you? Adam? Porn literacy? 49 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:45.639 Yeah, well, I mean to break it down like in the usual Adam 50 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:49.639 way, which is very literal and analytical. Yeah, porn literacy to me 51 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.960 would be well one of two things. Sure, sure, okay, here 52 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:57.479 we go, here we go now either And I don't know if this is 53 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.000 the appropriate term, but the term we've used for smut books. I don't 54 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:05.800 know if there's a better terman Yeah, erotic books, it's my offensive. 55 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:09.560 I don't know. I don't know. I think we're in this place to 56 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:12.639 ask that that's a good question. I don't I don't take it as a 57 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:18.120 dirty thing. I'm just moving your drinking it look like that's fair. Can 58 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:21.600 I help you? No, just that you're going to spill your um. 59 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:27.680 Yeah. Erotica, Yeah, so erotica in the literature format or erotic literature, 60 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:32.519 erotic literature. I like erotic in literature format. Please, we are 61 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:42.639 in an education space or literacy about literacy, educating about yeah, like a 62 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:46.600 pamphlet like something your guidance counselor maybe I think it has a lot to do 63 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.920 with understanding and breaking down. And I don't want to say understanding twice, 64 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:55.079 but I mented in two different ways. So I think of literacy just like 65 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:57.519 we know how to read, it's we know how to comprehend. That's a 66 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:01.800 vent. You know how to comprehend, under stand and analyze something. That's 67 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:06.199 when I you know, a bigger version of literacy definition that I think about. 68 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:10.120 You know, I think it's not just we know how to read, 69 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:12.759 but it's we know how to read and understand. Yeah, And same thing 70 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:15.680 about porn, Like even if you take it in the reading sense, it's 71 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:18.839 being able to comprehend it. Yeah. So especially with young people, I 72 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:25.199 think we all know that watching porn at a very young age can be terrifying 73 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:31.480 just because young people don't may not understand that this is not what sex is 74 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:34.839 like yeah, I mean, and it can be detrimental. Yeah, it 75 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:40.000 can give people a false reality of what sex is and what it should mean. 76 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:45.560 There's rarely any like consent in porn. There's a ironically, there's a 77 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:48.639 lot of rape porn where there is here the whole point of it is for 78 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:55.360 literal consent. Con It's okay, okay, um, anyway, I'm just 79 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:58.600 saying we'll get a little spice and dice, But I'm just saying it's important 80 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:06.000 as a young person to know how in correct and fantasy it is. Yeah, 81 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:13.879 because if you've never experienced sex, it can create a false narrative and 82 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:16.199 that can be that can be kind of harmful. Sure, absolutely, no, 83 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:20.680 I agree. So I'm excited to hear from panel Q and A. 84 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:26.160 Yeah, there's a lot of educators here, so kind of for the listeners 85 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:29.319 to kind of prep you for what this episode is going to be. Yeah, 86 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.879 it's going to be kind of a highlight reel of to night's events. 87 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:35.800 So we're gonna there's gonna be moments of us just discussing like we just did. 88 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:41.680 There's gonna be you know, splices of interviews and maybe slices of panel 89 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:45.399 and and so it's kind of what you guys are getting are kind of an 90 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:49.079 audio highlight reel of this event, of this south By Southwest event. Yeah, 91 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.800 I'm very excited. Well, good so nice, I had to say 92 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.279 twice. Um. Yeah, so even if you're not in Austin and you 93 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:02.040 couldn't attend this event, you get to still be part of all the benefits 94 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.879 to be part of the discussion listening, tell us your thoughts, send us 95 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:09.240 an email, let us know what you think of this episode and what you 96 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:13.319 think of the conversation as a whole. I don't think we have a lot 97 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:19.439 of therapists and like coaches in season three, but not specific educators. Sure, 98 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:26.040 I'm excited to see there's any teachers involved in this. Introducing potential new 99 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:30.839 tools to schools would be really beneficial. Absolutely, all right, Well, 100 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:32.759 we'll check in anything you want to add. I think I'm good. I 101 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:34.759 don't know. I can't think of anything happened with the top of my head. 102 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:39.199 I'm excited and ready to see kind of what it's all about. I'm 103 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:42.319 excited to sit and observe. Yes, yeah, and then we'll go from 104 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:45.519 there. Observe with us. Yeah, okay, take a back seat listen 105 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:51.639 in. Meet our first panelist, Melissa Pinturk Carnegie, founder of Sex Positive 106 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:57.759 Families and author of the best selling self published book Sex Positive Talks to Have 107 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:01.120 with Kids, A Guide to raising sexual, healthy, informed, empowered young 108 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:07.560 people. And I am a sexuality educator. I'm also a licensed social worker, 109 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:13.160 and I'm a parent to three incredible humans. They're twenty three, almost 110 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:18.600 twenty four thirteen and nine. So I'm the founder of Sex Positive Families, 111 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:26.399 which is a sex education platform for an online sex education platform for families. 112 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:33.240 We teach puberty workshops that are gender inclusive, family style interactive to families literally 113 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.759 around the world, and we're building an online school. I wrote a book 114 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:41.679 called Sex Positive Talks to Have with Kids, highly rated a seller on Amazon, 115 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:48.320 and self published it because you know, I didn't want anybody telling me 116 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:54.679 what I could or couldn't say. Yeah, and essentially just working to help 117 00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:01.039 families create more open, shame free households and conversations around these very human things. 118 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.279 Thank you for having me, wonderful, thank you, Thank you both, 119 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:11.240 and thank y'all for being here again. Avil Louise Clark, clinical sexologist, 120 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.399 brand Manager of the Poor and Conversation Intimacy coordinator and today's panel moderator. 121 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:20.519 Whether or not you're part of the LGBTQ plus community, whether or not you're 122 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.159 a part of the sex worker community, whether or not you're in the sexual 123 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:31.840 health community, there just seems to be a big wait and a really unfortunate 124 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:39.440 politicized movement against our communities. So would y'all like to touch on that for 125 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:43.000 a second and kind of give your input and share how that's been affecting your 126 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:48.360 work, not only as you know Americans, but here in Texas. Yeah. 127 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:54.919 So, in the US only twenty nine states and the District of Columbia 128 00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:00.039 mandate sex education. Texas is one of those states. It does not a 129 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.639 choir sex education to be taught in schools, and they just recently became one 130 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:13.039 of five or six states that when sex education is being offered, it is 131 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:18.360 on an opt in basis, so meaning that parents the caregiver has to opt 132 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:24.720 into it versus opt out of it, which sucks. I've been a sex 133 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:31.440 educator in schools here and not just within my own work, and we know 134 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.159 that for many reasons, whether it's the parents didn't get the note, they 135 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:43.679 didn't get the email, you know, they opting in leaves a much smaller 136 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:48.320 amount of people that will actually then opt in. And in the case of 137 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.080 my young person's school, we're actually in Round Rock School District. My young 138 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:58.440 person's school last year, for example, their puberty education that they would have 139 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:05.440 done that my son probably would have could have taught U. He's co facilitated 140 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:11.000 our puberty workshops before with me. They didn't have enough people to send in 141 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:15.840 their opt in and so they canceled it, and so that, you know, 142 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.639 becomes the justification for them to be able to just not offer anything at 143 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:24.559 all. And so because there are so many, hey, because there are 144 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:31.679 so many inconsistencies across this across states, then across the state, across cities, 145 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:37.360 and across school districts for something that should be able to be just like 146 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:41.679 all the other subjects that are taught in school that have curricula that you know, 147 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:48.240 are are required and mandated, and our young people are not getting access 148 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:54.200 to this information. And that is where porn and things that they find online, 149 00:11:54.559 --> 00:12:00.720 word on the street, or experimentation ultimately become the way that they learn 150 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:07.879 about these very human things. And where my work with sex positive families comes 151 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.679 in is so many of us adults who are now in the position of parenting 152 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:18.720 or mentoring or teaching raising young people, we didn't have many of us did 153 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.320 not have sex education. It wasn't inclusive, it wasn't comprehensive, it didn't 154 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.519 exist at all, or it was fear or shame based. And so how 155 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:31.080 do we then approach these conversations that we didn't have a model for or we 156 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.159 don't even have a comfort for where many of us are working through trauma, 157 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.480 our own trauma experiences associated with bodies, your lack of consent, sex, 158 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:45.840 sexual assault. So there are so many reasons why the conversation gets avoided, 159 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:48.799 the topics get avoided. And then if you don't have schools, if you're 160 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.600 sending your child off to a school and your school isn't even providing that level 161 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:58.919 of education, then again it leaves our young people without the resources to navigate 162 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:07.240 these these things that are integral to being human and to how we relate to 163 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.840 other people, how we get to understand ourselves, how we can feel affirmed 164 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:16.440 and understand other people and show up for other people. Consent, it's such 165 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.159 such a foundational aspect of being human, and that's why we have the me 166 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:26.679 too movement, right, So many adults that come to realize, oh wow, 167 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:33.120 I was assaulted, I was violated, my consent and boundaries were crossed. 168 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.919 I was in an unhealthy relationship and I didn't I didn't realize it because 169 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:48.200 we didn't receive this education. So yeah, wow, yeah, I I 170 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.000 love every demillis asked to say, and I know that that's going to be 171 00:13:52.039 --> 00:14:01.200 majority of my feedback for this entire event, but it's really refreshing and it's 172 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:05.480 a very healing inner child moment for me to hat to see and hear a 173 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.039 mother, Yeah, have these kinds of views. And she's I don't want 174 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.639 to say she's not young, but she's she's an age that could be our 175 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.840 mother. I mean, I mean my mom's will I think like fifty two 176 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:18.799 at think years like fifty four, fifty four, fifty five somewhere around there 177 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:22.799 like that. And I believe Melissa's forty nine. I think that comes up 178 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:24.879 at some point or I might have read it on her website. It's did 179 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.879 forty nine or forty two? She's gonna give you? She says it in 180 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:31.840 her intro. Did I make that up in her in her thing to the 181 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:35.759 panel, she's in her forties, she's in her forties. Apologies, she's 182 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:39.080 her close to fifty or close to forty? Yeah? Yeah, um yeah 183 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.440 it was. And we're tiny, little baby people where like yeah, so 184 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:45.120 she could be our mother? Yeah, And yeah, I think I think 185 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:48.000 there's she has like a twenty three or twenty four does Yeah, I think 186 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:54.799 there's something to hearing in regards to what this this whole conversation is about and 187 00:14:54.879 --> 00:15:01.639 what the question was about. Hearing it from a mother's perspective. You know, 188 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:07.080 we you know, in Texas we have so many you know you you 189 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.399 bring it up on the show a lot, like there's a lot of women's 190 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:15.759 rights being taken away. There's it's very conservative and not a healthy sexually healthy 191 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:20.519 place. And I think hearing you, but well, you don't hear very 192 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:26.200 often you hear a little bit about like how sex education isn't isn't great in 193 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.879 Texas or a lot of states. But I think here really having someone who 194 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.440 that is their kind of perspective and that is their main point they're involved in 195 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:39.000 right now, and they are in that, I think kind of really sheds 196 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:45.559 a light on not only yes, not only is yes we don't have great 197 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:52.200 sexual education, but like why and what that like actually kind of intels and 198 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.399 what that leads to. Yeah, and having that from a mother's perspective and 199 00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:00.840 asexual educator's perspective, I think is very eye opening and like I said, 200 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.200 being in the thick of it because she has the twenty sething girl, but 201 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.679 she has a teenager right now as well, and she has a very young 202 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.080 in Yeah, so I would love to. First of all, we have 203 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.039 to figure out a way to have her on the show. Yeah, I 204 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.759 would love a full conversation with her. Yeah, because I actually want to 205 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:26.000 know how um sex education has changed. She has three completely generation, three 206 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:30.399 different generational kids. That's true. So if I'm thinking about myself, I 207 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:37.360 had a very bad, not bad, but like not a very informative sex 208 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:44.240 education that was me my twenties. She's mentioning that her son's, her teenage 209 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:49.360 son's sex education class didn't have enough sign ups so it was canceled. Yeah, 210 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.639 so yeah, I did want and then yea, and now she has 211 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:56.320 it. And she also has a very young, like elementary child as well. 212 00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:00.519 So if it sounds if I had a conversation with her, I want 213 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:04.119 to know our Of course, I always feel like we're reverting backwards in Texas, 214 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:11.680 But truly, is education in schools for sex getting literally worse because maybe 215 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:17.400 they gave a very blanket, black and white conversation with the oldest, didn't 216 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:21.279 have one with the middle. Yeah, you know, And it's it's eye 217 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:26.559 opening because you would think as years go on, we would become more open 218 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.799 or more weird to have conversations we're all learning more. So it's just weird 219 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:37.960 to kind of years go on and being even more afraid of bodies. Yeah, 220 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:45.960 I'm trying to think about because we had sex education, or a lack 221 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:49.039 thereof, we had a form of a sex education class where they just well 222 00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:52.039 here about that, well here a little bit. Yeah. I remembered something 223 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.279 the other day that they did in it that I didn't bring up, where 224 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:02.119 they would be like like they'd be like, Adam, if you have sex 225 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:07.440 with Jessica, and Jessica already had sex with Todd, you've had sex with 226 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:12.799 Toddy. If you when you have sex with somebody, you've had sex with 227 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.720 everybody else y, yeah, and that's the way they always put it. 228 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:21.680 Yeah, So I remember the guys teasing the girls being like, yeah, 229 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:26.640 so if you have sex or something something like that, like basically is anything 230 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.240 like well, now you've had text with like fifty people, you grow slut 231 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:34.440 Like That's the way guys treated it. At our school. The guys treated 232 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:38.680 it a lot differently, probably because we're at a much smaller school. It 233 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:44.279 was more like it became just a joke of being like, you have you 234 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:47.880 had sex with someone with a woman, so you're gay. Like it was 235 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.079 just kind of us being making a joke out of it. Jesus Christ, 236 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:55.160 middle school boys, that's what we do in small town Texas. Um, 237 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:59.480 it wasn't good. What was I saying? Oh? But despite what what 238 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.680 literally sex education? How terrible the sex education class was. I'm trying to 239 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:06.799 remember. I don't remember if it was like an opt in thing. I 240 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:11.799 feel like it was mandatory for us. So sex was in health class. 241 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:21.000 I don't in our special and I don't remember anything needing to be signed because 242 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.839 it was in our folks. It was like in our text books. Yeah. 243 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.440 Yeah, but when we had the menistruation conversation, that was a that 244 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:30.680 was a sign in Oh really yeah. Interesting, Yeah, because there were 245 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:34.079 some kids that were not in it. Huh. I almost would have thought 246 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:38.240 it'd be the opposite. No, because it was younger, so elementary. 247 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.519 The menstruation conversation happened in elementary school for me, I want to say it 248 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.319 was in fourth or fifth grade. Yeah, yeah, and the health class 249 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:53.200 sex conversation was eighth grade or my freshman year. Well, you made it. 250 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:57.880 You mentioned something that the sex, your sex conversation, your sex education 251 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:00.960 was we did have in middle school. Actually, you're right, well, 252 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:04.799 but you you talked out. It was like the boys and the girls were 253 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:08.000 in the same yeah, saying right, because ours was they separated us for 254 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.680 that. It was just this is the thing. It wasn't even much about 255 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.480 sex as much as class. It was about STDs. Okay, So they 256 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.400 didn't give us any sex education. And in middle school they put us all 257 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:29.759 in a room and gave like a visual a visual aid of getting yeah, 258 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.160 without teaching us anything about sex. Yeah. And then in health class when 259 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:37.000 I got older, eighth grade or freshman years, when we had like health 260 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:45.759 class textbook sperms travel up the tube. Yes, but it wasn't like urges 261 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.279 or this is gonna you know what I mean, like that, dude, 262 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.960 here is scientifically what has happening. We're not we're gonna stay away from Yeah. 263 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.799 And I do actually remember in eighth grade, um, like we in 264 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.920 biology class, we all got assigned a different system and one person got like 265 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.640 the reproductive system and had to make a PowerPoint about it. Yeah, And 266 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.519 they compared it to going on a trip to Disney Rold. They did like 267 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:14.519 a metaphor of sperm for lizing the egg, and it was a metaphor going 268 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:19.480 to a Disney Rold the egg has to be epcot, that's insane. He 269 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:26.440 was m one. He was one of like the brown nosy. His mom 270 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.680 was a teacher kid. Sure sure was our sex education class I remember was 271 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.559 taught by coaches who I have not want to be there. I told you 272 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.920 our health teacher was a coach. He was like, don't have sex and 273 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:38.599 don't drink. And then I saw him like three days later my mom's bar 274 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.200 Oh weird. Yeah, well see ours was, if I remember correctly, 275 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:47.000 he was a coach that everyone hated, and even at the time I wasn't 276 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.039 a big fan of. But now as an adult, I can appreciate. 277 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:55.160 Maybe he wasn't that great of a coach, but as a person, I'm 278 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.200 like he was kind of a cool guy now, like he was just very 279 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:02.400 like he was me. He was like, he's like he's all fucking kids 280 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:06.119 are idiots. Um, but can I want to touch on one more thing 281 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:07.200 real quick? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And I know you do. 282 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.160 You have a thousand things you want to touch on. Um. It's so 283 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.119 funny because I feel like, um, my freshman year of college, you 284 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:18.200 know, we did freshman orientation and it felt like very much like, Okay, 285 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.640 we gotta we gotta figure this out together, because our freshman orientation was 286 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:26.799 like school and um, have fun, but don't have too much fun, 287 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.599 don't be stupid. Um like kind of like her fews and were to eat 288 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:36.400 and consent. Yeah, yeah, And then they did it, and then 289 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:40.960 they talked forever about consent. Interesting they did very long I remember it. 290 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.519 He was a very cool man and he was very like, I know how 291 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.400 many of you guys are, like, I know she wanted it. How 292 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.319 she gave me the look and everyone just started laughing. They're like, that's 293 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.200 what y'all, y'all say, is she gave me the look. That look 294 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.200 don't mean anything that that look is not a thing. That look is not 295 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.160 a green light, and it is not a golden ticket. Until she says 296 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:07.640 yes, that is not consent. Well, we were making out and the 297 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.279 music was flowing and we were touching. That's that's not consent. Yeah, 298 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.480 Like he went through this long thing. Until it is verbalized out of their 299 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:22.559 mouth, it is not consent. Long conversation. The probably majority of the 300 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.400 freshman orientation was about consent, and that was the first time someone's ever conversated 301 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:30.599 with me about that. Yeah, I wonder because I went I went to 302 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:33.880 two colleges, but one was a community college, so there was no freshman 303 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.319 orientation or anything like that, and the other one was in art school, 304 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:37.799 so there was also none of that kind of stuff. Um, but I 305 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.599 would be curious. I want if you're listening right in and let us know, 306 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.680 like if you had a similar the experience. I wonder if that's common 307 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:48.799 amongst colleges too. It would make sense just in general, like colleges college 308 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:52.839 boys notoriously. Yeah, I'm not giving consent. Yeah, so that would 309 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.799 absolutely make sense. So good for good for at least you have ahe whose 310 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:06.119 house goose house? I think it is okay. Any final little thought at 311 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.440 either of my schools, Um, the paintbrushes. I think technically the community 312 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:11.880 college I went to was the Buccaneers cut Um, Yeah, I have. 313 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.200 She made She made a couple of points that I really that really stood out 314 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:21.119 to me. And one of them when she talked about the opt in style 315 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:26.559 of education classes, like, there's the kind of base level of how stupid 316 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.519 that is, right, But she brings up a point that I think is 317 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:33.680 a very like in reality point that stood out of the idea of like, 318 00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:37.440 you know, I think when you think of there being an opt in class, 319 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:41.480 the go to thing is like, well, parents aren't going to want 320 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:45.279 to opt in. But she brings up this other level of like parents, 321 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:47.720 she's not going to get the form. They're just not gonna get the form. 322 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.200 I can't think of how many as a child, Yeah, forms of 323 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:56.359 stuff that I wanted to do, But I'm just a stupid kid. Just 324 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.400 put in your folder and send you home and say good luck getting this too. 325 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:03.880 You're RESPONSI You're the most irresponsible thing in the world. Take it. 326 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:08.559 Take it so like yeah, it's so that's a real like that really stood 327 00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:12.319 out to me of like, yeah, it's probably it's not always kids. 328 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:17.240 Why why would we put that kids? Unless purposeful, But that's just conspiracy 329 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.720 theory or even just like you know, even modern times, like an email, 330 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.599 you know how many emails don't make it or any of that, and 331 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:27.240 you know how how diligent is are these schools going to be with this kind 332 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:30.680 of stuff? No, absolutely, I mean, coming from my standpoint of 333 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:37.319 I have a thirteen year old nephew and his mom and then my mom his 334 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:41.319 grandmother are always talking about that how they'll go through his backpack once in a 335 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.039 while and they'll find all kinds of permission flips and forms and homework, and 336 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:48.359 they're like, when were you going to do any of this? He's like, 337 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:52.119 yeah, Like kids notoriously get home, throw their shoes and backpack in 338 00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:56.680 a corner and don't touch it until the next day, an unstable and then 339 00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.559 they're done for the day. You know how many times kids forget their backpacks 340 00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:02.279 and don't even take it to school. That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard, 341 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:06.720 But they do that. Yeah, I was a freak and was had 342 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:11.759 anxiety out the ass and could not imagine for getting like my favorite or racer. 343 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:18.480 Then yet kids be forgetting the whole backpack. Yeah, I would be 344 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:21.279 more. Yeah, like, I'm more concerned at that age to making sure 345 00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:22.960 that I got a pocketful of rocks than to make sure that I get my 346 00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:27.079 permission slip to the parents. People got a pocket full of rocks and some 347 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:32.119 people have a pocketfull of sunshine. But on that note, I'm excited to 348 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:37.599 say that we had a little bit of a conversation with Melissa about um education, 349 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:44.519 education in Texas and our experience before the panels started, and so I 350 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:57.599 wanted to give listeners a chance to eavesdrop on that conversation. I want to 351 00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:02.160 look at that book. Are you intrigued that there have a copy for you? 352 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:03.440 Do? I would love to look at it later. We used to 353 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:07.640 actually work for a publishing company here in Austin, and we lost our jobs 354 00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:15.160 because of this podcast. They weren't as sex open as you are. They 355 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.440 weren't as sex positive. They were very much the opposite, and they're like, 356 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.839 get out of here. But that makes me so happy because I'm like, 357 00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:25.279 well, no, we need to talk about things, especially with little 358 00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:29.160 ones because they needed the most. And are you here? We talked a 359 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:32.920 little about this. So you've lived in Austin majority of your life, So 360 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.960 what was it like in your education standpoint? Like what was your sex talking 361 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.000 school like? Because I know ours was pretty minimal. Yes, yeah, 362 00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:44.200 being here in Texas, Um, I've been here since our was nine in 363 00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:52.440 Austin. So I went through elementary and I remember one puberty related menstruation related 364 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.279 session that was in elementary school. They separated us by assumed gender. Yes, 365 00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:00.079 and so there's like, well what are the boys learning? Right? 366 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:04.759 And then we learned for maybe an hour and that's it. And then I 367 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:11.960 remember herpies on a giant screen and outbreak. Right, that was maybe fast 368 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:18.759 forward to high school one, you know, right, auditorium presentation moment. 369 00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:22.240 Sure, and it was very fear based, very shame based, and that 370 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:27.759 was it. There wasn't really anything in between or any certainly, nothing comprehensive, 371 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:33.440 nothing inclusive. Very fear and shame based. Yeah, limited, very 372 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.640 limited. Yeah, And because that's when I think of my sexual education, 373 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:40.319 that's the only thing I remember is, yeah, they separate the boys and 374 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:45.039 the girls. And then all I remember has just been showing us slideshow of 375 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.079 pictures of penises with different STDs, and that's that I remember. They didn't 376 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:55.839 show us any Yeah, they didn't show us girls any genitalia with any What 377 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:57.440 they did was they put us all in an auditorium. We did did a 378 00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:02.759 separate for periods. They did put us all in a room and talk to 379 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:04.440 us about periods. And they gave us a deodoran because they said you're gonna 380 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:08.960 smell. And then they gave us like tampons and a pad and I had 381 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.319 it like in my closet ready, and when I did start my period, 382 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:15.519 I was like I know where to go wonderful. Well, that's that's that's 383 00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.119 kind of positive. It was me ya. We just learned about periods and 384 00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.599 like that's what that looks like. And but in regards to sex, and 385 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.680 I remember in middle school, they puts an auditorium. They pulled like five 386 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.200 different people and they held a white card and they're like guests who has clamidia 387 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:33.480 and they would like walk and where we had to guess who had it, 388 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:37.680 and they would walk up to that person and spray the card water to see 389 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.000 if it turned a color. Because the whole point of it was like you 390 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:44.720 never know who has something. You shame, you don't think it's this person, 391 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:47.039 and then like they sprayed, it turns pink and they're like he's the 392 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.359 one that's infected, and like you never know. So that the whole conversation 393 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:53.559 was about how you just don't know on the surface who has an STG. 394 00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:57.599 You gotta be scared, you gotta be yeah to look out, but what 395 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.680 are we looking for? And and there and there's such that that you know, 396 00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:06.839 technically there's such a misconception around that because then you walk away thinking that 397 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.319 symptoms, you know, being symptomatic that's the only way you're going to tell. 398 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:18.480 Yeah, And many of the sdis don't have symptoms that may be present 399 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:23.079 and or someone can be asymptomatic and still spread. Right. So it's like 400 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:27.279 it's such a misconception that, oh, you look clean, right, that 401 00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:33.880 perception of looking clean or looking dirty or infected the fort too. They're like, 402 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.559 you may not even want to have sex, you may just want to 403 00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:41.039 rub genitals. Now you got her fies Like they were constantly like there is 404 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:45.000 no yeah, They're like you think yeah. They were like you think you're 405 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.720 fine, You think I'm not going to have sex, but like your love, 406 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.240 your yell are going to rub your bodies on each other because you're so 407 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.319 enthralled in love and you feel ready you're in high school or whatever. But 408 00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:56.759 now you have this. So I was like, damn, we can't even 409 00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:03.079 touch bots, like like what actually can't do anything. So it was it 410 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:07.000 was very it was based on fear. Everything was based on fear, like 411 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:10.000 that I'm seen in mean girls like don't have sex, you will get lamydia 412 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.119 and to unde. Yeah, and so imagine, right, like this is 413 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:15.599 so common. These narratives are so common for so many adults. Walking this 414 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:21.759 earth today. These are adults who are having children and raising children and being 415 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:26.480 placed in the position to have to educate and mentor a new generation. Right, 416 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.720 but how do you do that when you yourself had poor to know sex 417 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:36.640 education? Yeah, and these were your examples how you talk about these things. 418 00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:41.119 So then it's no wonder that many adults don't know how to approach this 419 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.880 and need to seek out resources or support to figure out how to create a 420 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:52.880 different result. Yeah. I think my mainstream learnings came from sixteen and Brannan. 421 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.319 I was a sixteen and Brannan kid, so like that was really big 422 00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:00.319 when I was like fourteen, thirteen, fourteen, So I used a lot 423 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:05.640 of what I learned from sixteen and pregnant as my sex sex education, and 424 00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:07.039 it was always about like, well, I don't want to be locked to 425 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:10.759 a really shame boy, so this is what they weren't. Yeah, I 426 00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.480 mean, you know, and and that's true right for me. I'm thirty 427 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.559 lb forty three, So for me, it was HBO, Real Sex CANAMAX. 428 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:25.759 Yeah, so you know that channel is available now exactly or if you 429 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.799 had to like see the channels through the like fun, don't you didn't really 430 00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:32.640 have the channel, but you kind of have the channel, yeah, a 431 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:36.240 little bit exactly, and then you're like it's on mute, you know. 432 00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:40.240 So, yeah, that that was my sex education. There wasn't the Internet, 433 00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:44.759 there wasn't Google. There was an online porn at that time. So 434 00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.599 yeah, there's a lot of sneaking around. You knew that you weren't supposed 435 00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.640 to be, you know, accessing this, or finding the VHS tape you 436 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:57.079 know at your aunt's house, you know, yeah, or the magazines that 437 00:32:57.079 --> 00:32:59.960 were hidden, or the Joy of Sex book that you know your family had, 438 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:05.200 right, it was like enjoying cooking. It's very different than today where 439 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:09.359 kids have their cell phones that they've been given by their caregivers. Right, 440 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:15.079 so as early as a kindergarten they're given these phones and they're given the information 441 00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:19.559 of the tools on how to use them and how to use them safety or 442 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:23.880 what they may come across, yeah, such as poor Yeah, and that's 443 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:29.319 that's why we're here exactly. I'm so excited to hear you speak. And 444 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:30.599 yes, after I would love to look at the books. I want to 445 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.799 look I want to look at it and talk about it a little bit of 446 00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.839 thanks for thanks to us they're turning the lights off. So I think I 447 00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:45.480 know we're getting like the Grammy music. Yeah, thank you, Thank you. 448 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:50.519 Meet our second panelist, Nor, co founder and director of sex Workers 449 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:55.720 Educating and Empowering Texans, also known as SWEET, an Austin based grassroots organization 450 00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.880 led by transgender sex workers of color. So I am a disabled queer and 451 00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:07.440 trans sex worker educator and community organizer. I am of South Asian descent, 452 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:12.679 and I have fifteen years leading service first and community centered programs to increase abortion 453 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:17.760 access, disability justice, comprehensive sex and gender education, service provider, cultural 454 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:24.840 competency and sex worker advocacy, and LGBTQIA and BIPOP communities. SWEET is dedicated 455 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:30.360 to ending the stigma against and the criminalization of sex work through peer support, 456 00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:35.559 outreach, public education, and harm reduction. We were founded in twenty eighteen 457 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.320 in response to SESTA FOSTA, which is a federal anti trafficking bill that had 458 00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:43.800 many adverse impacts on the well being of people in the sex trade industry on 459 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:46.639 all facets of it. And we are always accepting donations that are passed on 460 00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:52.159 directly to sex workers in need locally here in Austin. Thank you for having 461 00:34:52.199 --> 00:35:07.719 me here? Well, why are these messages being sent in porn? Why 462 00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.960 are we not seeing consent? Why are we not seeing communication? Why are 463 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.000 we not seeing you know, what really goes on behind the scenes as far 464 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:21.800 as like sexual health practices STI testing contraceptives, working with intimacy coordinators. What 465 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.920 are they actually doing that the consumer doesn't really see? So this is why 466 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:30.639 you know, we're not coming at here like fearmongering, anti porn anything like 467 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:37.039 that, But basically like why don't we have the information when it's sex work? 468 00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:42.760 But unfortunately people don't always treat But what do you industries? And they 469 00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:45.679 tend to assume that violence, misogyny, racism, and other kinds of oppressive 470 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:51.280 fetishism are just normal or acceptable risks of the job or of any sex work, 471 00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:54.760 rather than campaigning for safer workplaces for all workers, including sex workers. 472 00:35:55.480 --> 00:36:00.719 This results in a lot of victim blaming when sex workers experienced violent to oppression 473 00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:05.440 on the job. Also, many sex workers are also parents or caretakers to 474 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.400 young people or we were young ourselves recently, and we care about protecting youth 475 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:13.920 from harmful messages, but we don't always have control over media or studio demands 476 00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:17.079 and this is especially true for trans people and people of color. The content 477 00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:21.599 that is profitable and the roles assigned to us are not usually up to us. 478 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.800 We often have to agree to fetishizing tropes in order to be financially successful 479 00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:29.719 in the industry. It's important to note that the negative messages that we see 480 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:31.960 in porn, like violence against women, queer and trans people, young people, 481 00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:36.239 and people of color, as well as the lack of safer sex tools 482 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.400 and consent negotiations, and narratives that center pleasure for the viewer rather than the 483 00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:44.000 performer, these are all things that are present in many forms of media and 484 00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:47.559 in ideas about relationships in society at large, not just in pornography. So 485 00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:52.639 we should ask ourselves, in addition to questioning these narratives im porn, where 486 00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:55.280 else do these tropes show up in media that you consume, in the conversations 487 00:36:55.280 --> 00:37:00.440 you have with others, or in your own internal dialogue. Pornography, like 488 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:05.079 all media, is a representation of current cultural trends, and shifting the normalization 489 00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:08.000 of those trends is one of many first steps to ending the demand for fetishizing 490 00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:13.280 content, and people tend to blame the porn industry and the sex trade industry, 491 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.360 and in return, sex workers for these problems instead of recognizing them as 492 00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:21.239 systemic issues that show up everywhere. So, in my experience, a lack 493 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.559 of porn literacy can cause people to make assumptions about sex workers and even to 494 00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:29.559 assume that the narratives that they see in porn are based in the performer's pleasure 495 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.000 right rather than in the viewer or the consumer's pleasure, and this is used 496 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:37.280 to justify the violence that we as sex workers experience. So talking to people, 497 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:40.400 including young people, about sex work is an important part of porn literacy, 498 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:46.119 especially helping individuals understand the spectrum of choice, circumstance, and coercion that 499 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:51.960 brings people to different kinds of labor. The sex trade industry exists to meet 500 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:55.519 a natural human demand for intimacy, but there is potential for exploitation and for 501 00:37:55.639 --> 00:38:00.480 harm, like in any capitalist industry, For many diferent kinds of marginalized people, 502 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:05.920 sex work is a means of survival that is more accessible than traditional employment, 503 00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:08.639 but the criminalized and stigmatized nature of it means that sex workers end up 504 00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:14.480 being dependent on abuse of people and exploitative resources to survive. Both within and 505 00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:19.320 outside of the industry, So respecting people who work under this system and advocating 506 00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:23.119 for decriminalization of all consensual sex work is an important step towards making the industry 507 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:27.880 safer. As a sex worker and as an advocate for sex workers, I 508 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.840 encounter a lot of stigma, particularly in the idea that trading sex is always 509 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:36.000 unethical or always taboo, or that porn creators and sex workers in general should 510 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.159 not have access to every part of society because we have sex for a living. 511 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:44.440 Unfortunately, many sex workers have trouble leaving the industry even when we want 512 00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.440 to, because others will not hire us after we've done sex work. I 513 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:52.559 also want to gently push back on a common idea that sex in porn is 514 00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:55.280 not real, or that all porn is a fantasy. Just because it may 515 00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:00.880 look different than sex off camera doesn't mean it isn't real. Sex porn performers 516 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:04.000 are real people, and our bodies are real. Even if we have to 517 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:08.000 sometimes conform to mainstream standards, perform under contract, or have sex we wouldn't 518 00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:13.519 necessarily have without pay, the sexual experiences we have even at work are real 519 00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:16.039 and valid, and the scenes that we create on film and in person take 520 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:20.679 a lot of skill and are not easy to achieve without practice and experience. 521 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.360 To me, porn literacy lies in understanding that even when you're watching real people 522 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:30.000 have real sex, it's under conditions that are difficult and sometimes impossible to fully 523 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.880 replicate. It's okay to learn things from porn and want to emulate what you 524 00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.119 see in porn, as long as you understand that the real sex happening on 525 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:42.599 screen is usually motivated by profits, not by mutual pleasure. Performative sex and 526 00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:45.719 sex that happens for profit rather than pleasure is still real sex. For many 527 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:50.199 people, it's not a fantasy, but it's a reality of how they gain 528 00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.639 income, and the strategies used there are not always appropriate for all situations. 529 00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:58.639 It makes sense that the real sex you have for free doesn't look like the 530 00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:02.159 real sex others have for pay. Most things that are soul for profit are 531 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:06.960 created for the consumer's benefit, and there can be some genuine overlap when sex 532 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.079 workers are given the conditions to enjoy their work. Sex should always be consensual 533 00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:14.719 for all involved, and that includes sex for pay and porn when it's made 534 00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:20.840 ethically, is consensual and can even be pleasurable. In fact, saying that 535 00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:24.320 sex and porn isn't real or is just a fantasy normalizes the violence that porn 536 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:30.119 performers can experience on the job. If we instead, if we instead approach 537 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:35.159 porn as real sex but different for different from sex that isn't for profit, 538 00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:39.400 it legitimizes the needs, boundaries, and consent of the performers. Porn is 539 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:44.079 also very meaningful and real to people who rarely see their trans bodies or their 540 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.559 queer relationships represented outside of porn, and while that shouldn't be the standard, 541 00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:52.480 it is still the present reality. It's important to remember that people in porn 542 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.440 are real humans with real bodies and they are actually having sex, which I 543 00:40:55.480 --> 00:41:00.440 think means The question becomes, if sex and porn is real and real sex, 544 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:05.280 what can sex work consumers do to make the industry more pleasurable and safer 545 00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:08.239 for sex workers? And the simple answer to that is you can respect us, 546 00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:12.920 advocate for us, push back against tropes, and as a consumer, 547 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.920 seek out and demand content that allows marginalized people to have the money and power 548 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:22.320 to create, direct, conceptualize, and not be controlled in the content that 549 00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:25.000 we produce. Question the narratives that you see normalized in porn, but also 550 00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:30.119 in all media and in society, and most importantly, pay for your porn, 551 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:32.719 especially from independent creators, because it's the best way to make sure that 552 00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:43.400 your money is going directly to porn performers. You're coming through with the action 553 00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:47.760 plan, yeah, I know, they're coming through with data, statistics, 554 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:52.280 research, research, answers, answers, like they're here, they're not buying 555 00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:59.360 games, dotting and plotting, dotting, implotting. No. I loved so 556 00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:04.480 many things that they said, Um, some standout moments. I mean, 557 00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.239 just just the opening statement of sex work is work is one of my favorite 558 00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:14.840 things that people say. Sure, because people don't understand that. Even my 559 00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:19.000 even my dancing time, people didn't understand how much work. I mean, 560 00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:22.079 you know, I would have a social hangover the next day. She's like, 561 00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.000 I can't talk to anybody. I need to stay in bed. Yeah, 562 00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:28.559 I can't be around anyone. It's like I hit by a fucking truck. 563 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:32.239 Yeah. Um, it's a lot of work, it is, absolutely, 564 00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:38.199 Yeah. I mean there's very few things, very few things on the 565 00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:42.320 ground level unless you're like a billionaire or something. And even some of those 566 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:45.400 very few things that if you're getting paid to do it is it's easy, 567 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:49.360 you know what I mean. Yeah, So yeah, I don't know if 568 00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:52.239 that's like a stigma people have with this idea of sex work. I think 569 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:59.800 I think there's a very dumb idea of people thinking porn stars. I'm using 570 00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:02.679 them as an example. Um, like their job's easy, right, Like 571 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:06.519 they're like they're g bid of sex, so it's pretty cool. Like, 572 00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.800 no, it's a fucking job and it's tough work, and you it's not 573 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:15.719 always pleasurable, as Nor explains, Yeah, yeah, uh no, especially 574 00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:21.280 as they mentioned, the main way they can make money is by giving into 575 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:30.440 tropes and these mainstream ideas and very capitalist situations and yeah, um, that's 576 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.599 that's not fun for anyone involved. Yeah, I mean, we'll remember that 577 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:40.320 documentary watched where I mean, even that gentleman like wrecked his penis because he 578 00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:45.400 took so many erection pills because you have to be erect for like eight hours. 579 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:52.280 Crazy. Um, it's wild, and it's even wilder when you have 580 00:43:52.400 --> 00:44:00.000 to, especially Nor being a very empowered trans human and having to make very 581 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:02.679 that they're specifically only making. But I'm sure they've they've been in that situation 582 00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:07.960 where they have to make very stereotypical porn. Yeah, how just like not 583 00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:13.920 discouraging, but just like unsatisfying. Sure, you know, yeah, And 584 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:16.480 I mean like this is a I just feel like it'd be a little like 585 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:21.039 I always want, I want everyone to be proud of themselves in their work. 586 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:24.199 But that's got to be frustrating when you're especially with Nora, who is 587 00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:31.320 an activist and as a leader and is established in all these communities and they 588 00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:35.280 are going to have be put any situations where they're going to have to make 589 00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:38.119 very trope centric porn. Yeah. I mean, like you's got to be 590 00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:40.880 frustrating. Yeah, I mean you look about it, and it is like 591 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.079 not to try to compare about any stretch of the imagination because it's different. 592 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:49.519 But you know, you look at that with a lot of different industries, 593 00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.960 like even the film industry, right, Like people want to make these like 594 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:58.559 artistic pictures that tell a story. But but then it's like, well, 595 00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:00.920 I gotta fucking now make am Marvel movie because it's what's going to pay mills 596 00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:04.559 and put. Yeah, they're not going to get they might not get funding 597 00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:07.159 for what they want. Yeah yeah, um, And I think that's specifically 598 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:12.679 certainly that that's why I love Erica lust so much sum for that that example 599 00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:17.639 specifically, Yeah, um, but I also love the way nor was able 600 00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:22.280 to speak about porn in a very positive way. Um. Circling back to 601 00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:28.920 mud intro of this episode, when we were at the porn conversation before it 602 00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:31.960 started, just potting away, you know, doing our little intro, I 603 00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:37.719 talk about, um, how porn can be a nightmare, I think, 604 00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:42.920 is what I called it, and even Avril calls it. Um. They 605 00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.280 mentioned it could be dangerous. You know, we when we think of young 606 00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:52.400 people in porn, we think of scary, negative situations. Sure, but 607 00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:59.719 I loved the way that Nora was able to speak of it in a way 608 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:04.960 of how it is helpful to certain people. Yeah. Um, I mean 609 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:07.199 we talked about that sometimes as well. You and I we've spoken about you 610 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:13.639 know, of course, sex education is trash in Texas and then states and 611 00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:20.760 in many states, and then sex education for a young queer child non existent, 612 00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:25.320 non existent. They don't know, they're even more uncertain about their bodies 613 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:30.000 and their sexuality and how to act on that. And you know, you 614 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:35.119 know what I mean. So in those situations, it's like porn is all 615 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:38.960 they can rely on. If they're not if it's not being spoken and and 616 00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:45.599 you know absolutely, Yeah, I mean I love that, Like Nor brings 617 00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:52.639 up a great a great point that I never thought about. But how helpful 618 00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:00.280 or even just confidence whatever the term is to see for like a transgender person, 619 00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:06.199 to see that represented in porn, like just see representation. You know, 620 00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:13.400 when you are in this very like this this your you're you're you are 621 00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:22.320 this niche that doesn't get a lot of airtime quote unquote or even like representation, 622 00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:28.440 and you don't get to like see yourself, especially in a sexual sense, 623 00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:32.360 right like and even in a romantic comedy like a movie, just a 624 00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:37.400 simple romance scene, like you don't really get to see yourself be represented in 625 00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:45.239 that. And so having porn to say like, hey that can be me, 626 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:51.280 that's me. Yeah, I think is gotas got to feel amazing, 627 00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:54.880 Like as a as a cis gendered white man, like I'm represented in fucking 628 00:47:54.880 --> 00:48:00.840 everything, so like I can't speak for that, but it's got to feel 629 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:06.360 fucking amazing. It's very empowering. Yeah, I mean, I know we're 630 00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:12.480 just bringing up every day comparisons, which is not fair, sure, but 631 00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:15.880 I mean how many times do I and when I think about you and I 632 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:20.039 in the amount of bullshit we get with me being four leven and being six. 633 00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:22.280 Yeah, I don't get that kind of representation in a movie, Like, 634 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:24.440 Yeah, I wanted I would love to see, Like I always was 635 00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:27.239 like I'm gonna be a movie start and I'm like, can't be a movie 636 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:30.079 start because I'm too short. Sure what are they going to do? What's 637 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.920 it called a perspective? The whole movie. They'll put you on a milk 638 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:36.800 rate like Tom Cruise, it's the entire movie. But yeah, just just 639 00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:42.039 the normalcy of loving and living your life and you know that community not not 640 00:48:42.039 --> 00:48:45.320 getting it. Yeah, like even to you know, I would I would 641 00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:47.960 say, like using that as example, like that's the only kind of context 642 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.280 I would have. Like recently, I saw something on the internet. Someone 643 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:57.159 posted a picture of there was another couple. The man was giant out he 644 00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:00.559 was like built, he was huge, but he was probably like four six 645 00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:04.199 five but like three hundred pounds just muscle, and he was with a woman 646 00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:07.519 that was probably about your size, Like it was a tiny comparison. And 647 00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:13.320 someone posted this video and put a bunch of comments about like this is disgusting 648 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:17.840 that man should be arrested and like it was frustrating. But there are also 649 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.199 a lot of people going like, you're this is stupid, Like, no, 650 00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:25.840 it's just a it's a different two different sized people and like see just 651 00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:30.800 that right, Like that's no comparison to being transgendered and seeing yourself represented. 652 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:37.199 But even just that, like it felt good to have that validated. Yeah, 653 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:43.400 um so so Yeah, I mean I loved the circling. Having that 654 00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:49.679 representation is really nice. Absolutely, and hearing how important porn is in and 655 00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:54.599 someone in them using it as a tool and using it as um just a 656 00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:58.639 way to be seen, it does make me look at porn in a very 657 00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:01.440 different way. Yeah, you know, I loved that. I love that 658 00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:07.760 specifically because I mean I enjoy my porn from time to time, and I 659 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:10.599 truly just think of it as just like a way to pleasure myself. I 660 00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:19.239 don't think of it as a learning tool or a resource. Yeah. That 661 00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:24.480 was really nice. Yeah. I loved being able to walk away from the 662 00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:30.559 discussion and from the porn conversation seeing porn in such a positive way. It 663 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.079 made me really happy to understand why it is so important to different humans in 664 00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:39.119 the world. Yeah, and even um, I think it comes up later 665 00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:43.000 and I don't know if it's going to make it in the highlight reel, 666 00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:46.559 but I think I think it's North that brings it up as well on that 667 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:52.480 part, well, not the consent part, but for qute communities, Yeah, 668 00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:57.280 to be able for education on them, Like if someone is interested in 669 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:00.320 b DSM, porn, can good be a good, m good kind of 670 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:07.960 educational tool to learn that world? Yeah? No, absolutely, And Nowhere 671 00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:15.800 also mentioned that there was poorn with consent and there were almost almost training videos 672 00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:22.639 of how like sex were her etiquette and how what to do and how to 673 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:27.760 act and questions, and I think they hadn't talk about consent and boundaries and 674 00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:30.159 and things like that, you know, all these things that you know, 675 00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:34.639 Avrol brought that up in her question, you know, things that were missing. 676 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:37.320 How do we not have these things because they seem un sexy. That's 677 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:42.679 why in porn you don't see condoms being used. I remember reading and seeing 678 00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:46.480 all kinds of things about that is because using protections on sexy, so they 679 00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:50.360 just make everyone get tested. You gets get tested all the time, you 680 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:55.599 know, so you because they're not going to allow protection and even if you're 681 00:51:55.639 --> 00:52:01.639 not transmitting any STIs or anything. It's still not great, you know, 682 00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:07.199 to have unprotected sex. But sure, so many reasons, for so many 683 00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:10.320 reasons. But like you know, we yease, infections and so many other 684 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:14.599 things you can get there aren't STIs you know. Yeah, I don't know 685 00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.639 you. I don't want your raw business over here, you know what I 686 00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:20.320 mean? Absolutely, you know for sure. Yeah, So all these things 687 00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:25.320 like consent and boundaries and that's not sexy. So it's like it's not something 688 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:30.039 we see very often, yeah, or even like I mean even simple stuff 689 00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:37.679 like even seeing in a porn someone putting a condom on, like understanding how 690 00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:43.679 how as as much as it seems like a pretty self explainatory thing, it's 691 00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:46.199 not always. It's not always that way. Yeah, Like I think you 692 00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:50.199 once tried to put a condom on me for the first time, and like 693 00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:52.920 you're smart and you figured it out fairly quickly. But there we know how 694 00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:58.079 to put a condom on. I put condom on a mini a pen. 695 00:52:58.519 --> 00:53:02.280 You say that, but you struggled to little bit. No, it's probably 696 00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:06.599 just because it was dark. It's always I know how to do it, 697 00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:08.199 it's just you have to know what side to roll it. You just have 698 00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:12.280 to know what side to roll it. Yeah, well, did you pinch 699 00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:17.159 the tip? That's not in the directions. It is very much in the 700 00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:21.079 directions. I'm gonna get a constant wrapper right now. Please go get a 701 00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:23.719 condom rapper right now. I will take a pause just so we can read 702 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:30.079 the instructions on I don't think I've ever actually read the instructions on a condom 703 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:34.519 wrapper, so that that might be on me. I think, I just 704 00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:38.840 I think I just learned. I'm a what do you call it, a 705 00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:46.639 hands on learner. I think that's how I learned these things. It's better 706 00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:52.480 back and show you. Does it say there's no instruction? It says it 707 00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:58.360 says have fun, do your best, do your worst, says please see 708 00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:02.360 directions for use inside the package, inside the box, inside the box. 709 00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:07.079 Yeah, so we don't have the instructions, but I know how Yeah. 710 00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:10.360 Yeah, anyway, I do want it real quick. I know, like 711 00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:15.320 we're trying to keep these somewhat short. Um, just because we got some 712 00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:17.800 highlights go through. But you brought up something and this kind of goes back 713 00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:24.320 to the whole such a sex education thing with um because we didn't learn this 714 00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:29.079 and this is it specifically came up in my mind when you were talking about 715 00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:35.320 like like a gay youth even like getting less education. Yeah, like even 716 00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:38.599 learning about we didn't learn about like the AIDS epidemic or any of these like 717 00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:44.760 really big things that can kind of like that affected the like like I guess 718 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:47.519 my question, I guess my thought is, like I'm trying to think of 719 00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:53.119 how to phrase it, like learning about like AIDS for example, and specifically 720 00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:58.920 in the in the regards of you know, it can be so big in 721 00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:02.760 the gay community and like just I don't know learning about that aspect like that, 722 00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:07.480 like not having that education, right, Yeah, you know it does. 723 00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:10.400 What I'm saying makes sense. I understand what you're getting at. I 724 00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:16.159 just don't relate. Yeah, I learned about BID's epidemic. We learned about 725 00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:19.719 it in school. I did not. Oh really, it was like in 726 00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:22.960 our textbooks, we did not learn about it. Yeah, because it had 727 00:55:22.119 --> 00:55:25.679 it was politicized. Yeah. Yeah, we learned about it in a political 728 00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:30.840 way. Yeah, and about how that was used as almost like a fear 729 00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:36.719 amongering situation in politics and such and such. So um, but I also 730 00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:39.800 just grew up very aware of things like that. I mean I grew up. 731 00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:43.440 I don't think I've talked about it much on the on the pod, 732 00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:46.480 but I mean I from the age of four, I was around a trans 733 00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:52.679 child. Yeah, that was I think they were like three years two or 734 00:55:52.719 --> 00:56:00.480 three years older than me and they transitioned. And I just remember, I 735 00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:04.599 mean full story, I mean, I guess I can get it feel like 736 00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:08.480 it's relevant. I grew up with Derek, and Derek liked to play with 737 00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:10.920 barbies with me, and I knew that, and it was a good time. 738 00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:15.360 I would played barbies Derek had thee I was always so jealous. Derek 739 00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:19.960 always had the best barbies, like way nicer than I had. And they 740 00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:23.480 even had the Barbie sewing machine and would make little dresses for their barbies and 741 00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:25.360 I was like, will you make my Barbie a dress? And they were 742 00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:29.239 like no. I was like, okay, I'm sure. It wasn't very 743 00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:31.320 fun hanging out with me because I was just younger. Sure, but we 744 00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:36.280 played all the time. Nonetheless, they loved rug rats. They had a 745 00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:43.679 little Dill Pickles stuffed animal. But it was like those really bad kids toys 746 00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:47.400 where the body is soft and the head is hard, Like why why would 747 00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:52.679 they do that? To us, and so yeah, no, they were 748 00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:54.480 a good time, had a lot of fun with them. And a few 749 00:56:54.559 --> 00:56:58.679 years and they loved Britney Spears as much as I did. Oh my gosh, 750 00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:00.960 oops, I did it again? Are you kidding me? Yeah? 751 00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.480 The posters was everything, and that was just life. And then a few 752 00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:07.559 years went by. I want to say, I was in first grade and 753 00:57:08.719 --> 00:57:10.719 my mom just told me one day, she was, hey, just so 754 00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:16.159 you know, uh, Derek is transgender and is not going to go by 755 00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:20.119 Jenny. And I said, what does that mean? And they said, 756 00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:24.000 my mom said, well, Derek has a boy body but a girl mind. 757 00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:29.719 Derek was born with a girl brain. So and that's why you and 758 00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:32.079 Derek have so much fun and like to do those types of things together. 759 00:57:32.679 --> 00:57:36.679 And I was just like, oh, okay, word And that was a 760 00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:38.880 conversation and that was it. And then and this was a while before like 761 00:57:39.159 --> 00:57:45.400 transgender was kind of culturally prevalent, you know what I mean. I don't 762 00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:49.840 know, I was very young. I mean, I mean it wasn't within 763 00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:52.320 the fat past like five years. It's what I'm saying, we're transgender now, 764 00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:57.119 people like understanding more. And it was kind of not sure, not 765 00:57:57.159 --> 00:58:01.360 a culturally big thing. Sure. I don't know what was culturally big at 766 00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:05.360 that time. I was a young in but sure, I mean sure, 767 00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:07.519 But like even in high school, transgender wasn't like all, you know, 768 00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:12.119 people weren't talking about it. Yeah, it wasn't. It was less of 769 00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:14.880 a mainstream thing for sure. And that's all it took. And that's all 770 00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:19.199 I needed. I clicked entirely, and I'm like, of course, sure, 771 00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:23.360 of course they're Jenny, Like, this makes total sense. We like 772 00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:27.840 the same things. We like to play mermaid barbies and dance to Britney Spears 773 00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:31.280 of course. Um. And that was kind of the conversation and that it 774 00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:36.320 was as easy as that. And I think about Jenny all the time. 775 00:58:36.400 --> 00:58:39.119 I don't know where they are, Um, I need to ask my mom 776 00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:45.519 if they're still in touch with their mom. Yeah, but uh yeah, 777 00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:49.320 I think I was just getting at that the representations is really important. And 778 00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:54.360 it was really nice hearing Porne spoken about in a positive way and and the 779 00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:58.960 um the importance of it, yeah, in such a different way. Yeah. 780 00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:01.880 Really that was a very standout moment for me, Ols, because you 781 00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:07.199 brought up it was very meaningful. I really enjoyed that. I love the 782 00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:13.679 positivity of it all. A really fun part of the night with the porn 783 00:59:13.719 --> 00:59:21.079 conversation was April opening the floor to some Q and A moments from the audience, 784 00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:27.800 and I wanted to share some of my favorite moments of that conversation. 785 00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:31.159 How do you feel about that? I hate it. I'm not doing it. 786 00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:37.599 You can't pay me enough to do it. I am paying you shit 787 00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:39.400 son? All right, fair enough, all right, We'll pay you in 788 00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:46.079 kisses to play it. I'll out. If you have any questions, please 789 00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:52.039 feel free to ask them and we're all here. Whoever you feel answer the 790 00:59:52.119 --> 01:00:00.400 question. So any questions, Yeah, yeah, yes, So I was 791 01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:06.280 thinking all about what you're saying about, you know, talking to your kids 792 01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:09.320 of corn. And for me, this is something that has always been in 793 01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:13.800 my mind of like, okay, porn is the fact and senset at the 794 01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:17.039 end of the day, and it's something where I came to this realization of 795 01:00:17.199 --> 01:00:20.480 Okay, I just want to create corn that I want to be afraid of 796 01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:22.039 my kids would see. But at the end of the day, with the 797 01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:27.239 way the internet is, is how do you keep them from that? And 798 01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:30.119 do you show them something beautiful or do you just totally tell them that's where 799 01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:32.880 adults. And if you tell them that's where adults, isn't it going to 800 01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:37.920 make them want to watch it more? That's yeah, that's really great question. 801 01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:42.000 Thank you for the work that you do. So it's about building a 802 01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:45.880 relationship with your young person. Okay, your young person has to feel safe 803 01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:51.519 to talk to you, has to feel like they can trust you, that 804 01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:53.320 you're not going to judge them, or that they're not going to get in 805 01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:59.079 trouble for their curiosities, for what they're thinking about, what they dream about. 806 01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:04.800 The reality is is that many of us didn't grow up that way, 807 01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:07.519 so it can be hard. Or we make the assumption that, oh, 808 01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:10.760 kids, kids never want to talk to adults because I didn't want to talk 809 01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:15.159 to my parents, right, And that's not true. I'm telling you, 810 01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:20.800 I'm raising young people, write them through all the stages and I'm still working 811 01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:25.719 through them now. And it's these are constructs, like we construct that by 812 01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:30.280 the way in which we socialize our young people. And so the same thing 813 01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:36.559 goes for what kind of container are we creating in our home that would allow 814 01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:40.280 a young person to be curious with us. The moment we start to introduce 815 01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:47.159 shame, we start to So it's not about boundaries, because boundaries is different. 816 01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:53.239 So when we tell our young person that this is content that's made for 817 01:01:53.400 --> 01:02:00.400 adults, right, it's not made for children, that's a boundary. When 818 01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:07.400 we are regularly setting boundaries and respecting boundaries, and that includes them giving us 819 01:02:07.400 --> 01:02:13.679 a boundary and we're respecting that boundary and they see that we're creating a home 820 01:02:13.719 --> 01:02:19.519 where it's not an adversarial dynamic. So none of us are trying to get 821 01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:22.480 at each other, you know, or you know, we just respect that. 822 01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:24.280 We say, yeah, so I have a thirteen year old now who 823 01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:29.480 absolutely you know, has a cell phone. He's on you know, TikTok. 824 01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:31.800 Not like he's not creating content on TikTok, but he likes to you 825 01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:35.960 know, watch like he loves sports, so he likes to watch sports videos. 826 01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:42.960 But our process to introducing or allowing him to be on social media, 827 01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:49.039 like first it was like, you're not thirteen, and these platforms they've got 828 01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:52.679 rules, right, and it's just being honest, you know, as opposed 829 01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:54.440 to while I'm not going to give it to you because you're not responsible and 830 01:02:54.519 --> 01:02:57.480 I don't think you'd know what to do any bubble. But you know, 831 01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:00.039 like like why would I want to talk to somebody who talk to me like 832 01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:04.519 that? Right, So sometimes we have to check ourselves, like am I 833 01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:07.599 someone that someone would want to talk to and tell something really personal or intimate 834 01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:14.440 without fear of judgment or shame. Right. So it's a lot of work, 835 01:03:14.480 --> 01:03:15.880 it's a lot of mirror, Like you know, I have to look 836 01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:20.199 at myself often, you know, and apologize. There's so much repair. 837 01:03:20.559 --> 01:03:23.559 And it's again a relationship, so there's so much repair that happens if ever 838 01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:28.880 I get ahead of myself or if I'm talking too much, So I have 839 01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:32.679 to check myself and make sure that I'm listening to him more than I'm talking, 840 01:03:32.840 --> 01:03:37.079 that I'm creating a space where he feels safe to open up and share, 841 01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:40.039 and I'm not pushing you know, him too to share. So again 842 01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:43.079 this sounds like, well, what does this have to do with what? 843 01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.599 It has everything to do because it's the relationship that you're fostering with them, 844 01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:55.199 so that when you have to set or maintain a certain boundary such as you 845 01:03:55.239 --> 01:04:00.760 know, this is not made for you, and so this is this is 846 01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:03.280 not something that's okay for you to be watching. I want to here's the 847 01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:08.159 other thing too that I talk to my young people about and that I teach, 848 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:12.320 you know, talk about the why. Okay, I want to make 849 01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:16.480 sure that when you get ready to make decisions about sex, that you feel 850 01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:20.440 prepared, that you feel supported, that you know what you're getting into. 851 01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:26.920 You deserve that. If you start watching porn, and again, the porn 852 01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:30.920 that's out there and accessible, that's going to be free, that often again 853 01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:33.239 doesn't respect to the people that made it. So we break all of this 854 01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:38.199 down so that they develop a level of empathy and a lens about the world 855 01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:41.360 around them and how they can participate in the world around them, and a 856 01:04:41.400 --> 01:04:45.880 personal responsibility. It takes time. Yeah, it's like extra words, and 857 01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:48.800 it's and it's listening and it's talking it through, but it's you're you're you're 858 01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:54.920 helping to foster another human on this earth. And and that's a huge responsibility. 859 01:04:55.119 --> 01:05:00.280 You know, tells a lot of words. But you know, my 860 01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:03.800 thirteen year old, it's like he's not he's not out here, he doesn't 861 01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:08.000 have anything to oppose. Like I want to say this, I'm not afraid 862 01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:12.679 of him seeing poor. That is not my biggest fear. That's a lot 863 01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:18.599 of parents' biggest one of their biggest fears that he has seen or will see 864 01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:25.719 or that could see. And I know I'm not I'm not afraid because you 865 01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:28.840 know why, Because I know that I am. I am someone that he 866 01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:31.480 can talk to and he'll come and ask me questions, you know what I 867 01:05:31.519 --> 01:05:34.440 mean. Right, I can contextual it that that is not the worst thing 868 01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:38.679 on earth if he if he comes a class, you know, and it's 869 01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:47.559 happened in his school, kids are on their chrome their school issues issues promos, 870 01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:53.800 watching porn y'all the classroom, and my son, I'll tell me about 871 01:05:53.840 --> 01:05:57.960 it, and I'm like, oh wow, you know, like right, 872 01:05:58.119 --> 01:06:00.440 he can tell me that without me three out and turning it into a big 873 01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:03.719 old thing, right, because I know that I'm having the conversation, We're 874 01:06:03.760 --> 01:06:08.920 having the conversations at home. That is not the worst thing. I'm honestly 875 01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:14.639 worried about suicidal ideations, his mental health. He's I pulled him out of 876 01:06:14.679 --> 01:06:17.039 public school. His last day is tomorrow, and I'm starting to unschool him 877 01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:21.119 because I had to asked myself if I'm how am I doing all this like 878 01:06:21.199 --> 01:06:25.800 liberatory education work? But yet I got a kid up in this school that's 879 01:06:25.840 --> 01:06:32.000 like sending emails about somebody threatened shoot up the school last Friday and they're gonna 880 01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:35.119 have extra police on campus and all this stuff. And I'm like, what 881 01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:41.000 what you know? So that's what I'm I'm afraid of those kinds of things, 882 01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:44.679 like real stuff to be afraid up. Poor. Yeah, And it's 883 01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.679 not because I'm having this permissive thing. It's because we talk of like it's 884 01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:51.320 an open conversation. He has nothing that he needs to buck up against. 885 01:06:51.800 --> 01:06:56.159 That's what is happening is that young people are trying to buck up. They 886 01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:59.559 don't have anyone to talk to to ask their questions. What I tell parents, 887 01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:03.320 goole young people turn to Google because Google will shame them for being curious 888 01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:08.280 sens true. Okay, once we introduce shame, that is what leads them 889 01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:12.159 to run. Horn is not the enemy. Not talking to our young people 890 01:07:12.199 --> 01:07:15.239 about these things. That's the enemy. So break the sign. That's break 891 01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:19.320 the shame. And I'm telling you it's it's a relationship. Then you get 892 01:07:19.360 --> 01:07:24.119 to have with your young person and you'll get to like, just it's beautiful. 893 01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:32.039 It's beautiful. Thank you, Okay, thank you. This is moment 894 01:07:32.679 --> 01:07:36.280 of like a fifth me when I was in the middle of a three way 895 01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:44.639 and the guy was like doing a good time. Oh my god, I'm 896 01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:51.519 like happy, this is so funny this communication. Does that increase or decrease 897 01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:59.400 the arousal? Oh my god, it was amazing. I go to therapy 898 01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:04.440 on a Tuesday. The question is how do we continue? Like do you 899 01:08:04.480 --> 01:08:09.840 see the dynamic changing of where the communication seems to stop and hit a wall. 900 01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:12.039 You can learn all this stuff and then you're like when I get in 901 01:08:12.039 --> 01:08:15.960 that room and that would be quiet because I you know, infore and I've 902 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.079 seen so much silence, Like do you do you see me in that dynamage? 903 01:08:18.279 --> 01:08:24.079 I'm fascinated by you mentioning the consent negotiation, which you would never call 904 01:08:24.119 --> 01:08:26.920 it in the moment, like are we going to negotiate consent? Maybe? 905 01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:30.399 Like you know where do you how will we make the leap to like, 906 01:08:30.479 --> 01:08:35.039 you know, bringing some of this conversation in there with you know how without 907 01:08:35.079 --> 01:08:38.079 killing the mood er se but like, you know, how do we get 908 01:08:38.079 --> 01:08:41.800 over this obstacle? I mean, I think there's this idea that's becoming a 909 01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:45.800 mainstream that consent is sexy and that normalizing, Like sure, you're not gonna 910 01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:48.600 be like how we negotiate consent, but asking is this okay? Do you 911 01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:51.600 like this? Are you into this? It's becoming more normal. Um, 912 01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:56.279 And at least in my personal experience. UM, It's not something I learned 913 01:08:56.279 --> 01:08:59.399 in school and sex said that it's something that I was taught by my peers 914 01:08:59.399 --> 01:09:01.840 and that I learned on my own and learn to normalize in my sexual experiences 915 01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:05.079 where even if I'm wanting to hold cans or kiss somebody, that I ask 916 01:09:05.159 --> 01:09:10.640 first, and that I don't really enjoy sexual experiences with people who aren't on 917 01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:15.800 the same page of wanting to check in before engaging. So I don't know 918 01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:16.720 if I have an answer for you on how to change it, but I 919 01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:20.800 think it's really just an individual thing where people have to normalize just getting comfortable 920 01:09:20.880 --> 01:09:26.039 being uncomfortable and asking and being okay with being rejected. And it really kind 921 01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:30.359 of leads into these bigger societal ideas of what great culture is and what entitlement 922 01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:32.439 is, and like, what are the ideas we have about sex and when 923 01:09:32.439 --> 01:09:36.359 we're old sex and when we're people just saying yes to sex because we're into 924 01:09:36.399 --> 01:09:40.079 them, and what being desirable looks like and if that means we should just 925 01:09:40.079 --> 01:09:44.279 suck everybody who's into us, Like, these are all deeper ideas that translate 926 01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:46.680 to what our self worth is and how we feel we can communicate our boundaries 927 01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:50.479 to other people. So I think that it's deeply personal, but it's also 928 01:09:50.520 --> 01:09:56.319 societal and it's kind of everybody's responsibility to start shifting these norms a little bit 929 01:09:56.319 --> 01:09:58.800 and asking even when you're like, I don't know if this is going to 930 01:09:58.840 --> 01:10:00.880 be a turn off or it's going to make this person leave the room, 931 01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:02.840 you should take that risk, because it's more important to make sure that you're 932 01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:08.279 getting that consent or yourself and for that other person than to just get the 933 01:10:08.359 --> 01:10:11.760 pleasure that you think you're having in that moment that actually might be really traumatizing 934 01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:18.319 for you or for that person. Some final thoughts and resources with nor conversations 935 01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:26.399 and Melissa were able to articulate things so much better than anyone ever could, 936 01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:30.439 honestly, because there are things, whether it's about corn or sex or sex 937 01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:34.279 work by myself, I'm a dancer, so there are a lot of things 938 01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:38.640 that I'm like, I didn't like that, that's bad, But I don't 939 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:42.760 know how to articulate what I don't like or what I do like. So 940 01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:45.760 I know that you're all talked out, you've had a long day, but 941 01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:48.119 I just want to give you some praises and tell you what I took away 942 01:10:48.119 --> 01:10:53.840 from this, because I thought it was such a good balance of talking about 943 01:10:54.880 --> 01:11:00.000 the good things about corn and how we can consume certain things and what they 944 01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:06.199 mean for people. I think when you spoke about representation and how that is 945 01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:13.000 so helpful in those scenarios and watching Corn and seeing yourself represented, like it 946 01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:15.680 makes absolute sense, and I'm like, of course, of course that's where 947 01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:19.880 we're looking. And because I mean even in general, anyone in the queer 948 01:11:19.920 --> 01:11:25.359 community or you know, even with mainstream movies like Bros. Came out and 949 01:11:25.439 --> 01:11:29.520 everyone was like, oh, finally we have a gay wrong com So I 950 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:31.079 just want to tell you that I'm proud of you. I don't you know, 951 01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:33.840 yeah, I don't want you feel like you have to give like a 952 01:11:33.880 --> 01:11:39.319 Ted Talk Part two. I was just so impressed and you really made me 953 01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:43.479 so happy. I I'll reiterate more in the episode later on, but I 954 01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:45.439 was just like, I want to just let you know that I'm very proud 955 01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:48.479 of you and you're doing such a great job and you being nervous about public 956 01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:51.439 speaking. I was like, bite my ass, like you are killing it. 957 01:11:53.239 --> 01:11:56.720 You articulate yourself so well, you get your point across so well, 958 01:11:57.279 --> 01:12:01.239 and uh yeah, your positivity just thrills me. And sharing actions and what 959 01:12:01.279 --> 01:12:04.319 we can do, I think is what I want you to reiterate one more 960 01:12:04.319 --> 01:12:12.439 time and when it comes to anyone looking for resources to consume helpful porn. 961 01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:15.239 I love that you brought up b DSM and like the intro to that you 962 01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:17.920 brought up. I think it was a key dot com So I just wanted 963 01:12:17.960 --> 01:12:23.680 you to to share some of those action things that we can do to support 964 01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:27.479 people in the BIPOC community, sex workers in the BIPOC community and the trans 965 01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:30.520 community. What are those actions? Of course, And first of all, 966 01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:32.760 thank you so much. It means a lot to me to be appreciated, 967 01:12:32.800 --> 01:12:36.279 I'm heard by other sex workers. I love being able to meet us out 968 01:12:36.319 --> 01:12:40.520 in the world and that's my favorite part of doing this kindable good. And 969 01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:43.720 in terms of just what I want people to take away, these are some 970 01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:47.039 tips that I wrote for sex workers, educating and empowering Texans on how individuals 971 01:12:47.039 --> 01:12:50.479 can help and the violence towards all sex workers. So the first one is 972 01:12:50.479 --> 01:12:55.119 to learn about the sex workers rights movement, about the difference between legalization and 973 01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:59.239 d FRIM and how criminalization affects the lives and safety of people who sell and 974 01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:02.079 trade sex. To respect us, to not make jokes about us, and 975 01:13:02.119 --> 01:13:05.960 remind people about what stereotypes are and how that contributes to the violence of the 976 01:13:06.039 --> 01:13:11.920 experience. To dismantle stigma. There's no shame in being or hiring a sex 977 01:13:11.960 --> 01:13:15.479 worker, and people who trade and sell sex deserve to be well compensated and 978 01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:18.720 protective, even and especially when we face violence. And pushing back against the 979 01:13:18.760 --> 01:13:24.760 normalization of violence against sex workers and conversation in media and anywhere else who encounter 980 01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:29.600 it is really important because nobody deserves a youth. Mostly, it's really important 981 01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:32.399 to listen to people who trade and sell sex about our lives, our experiences, 982 01:13:32.439 --> 01:13:35.279 our needs and desires. Don't treat us like we're all the same, 983 01:13:35.399 --> 01:13:39.760 assume we need someone to save us or take advantage of our narratives for your 984 01:13:39.760 --> 01:13:43.840 own purpose. We don't need saviors. And finally, to support peer led 985 01:13:43.880 --> 01:13:46.640 services for sex workers. Most major cities in the United States have a sex 986 01:13:46.680 --> 01:13:50.760 worker led organization or a harm reduction chapter. Take the time to find and 987 01:13:50.760 --> 01:13:55.560 support groups that are run by actual sex workers rather than donating to groups that 988 01:13:55.600 --> 01:13:59.800 are run by people outside the industry. You can visit our website Sweet ATX 989 01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:03.319 work and our social media at sweet Underscore ATX to learn about our work and 990 01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:06.680 to donate to help us provide mutual aid to local sex workers and create more 991 01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:11.560 resources that are created by resources created by sex workers and for sex workers. 992 01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:15.720 And Austin Sensis amazing. And that's all gonna where to put all your links 993 01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:17.760 as well in the episode description so they can look at it there. But 994 01:14:17.880 --> 01:14:21.439 thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here. Yeah, I'd 995 01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:27.119 love to connect again sometimes. Yeah boy, oh boy, oh boy, 996 01:14:28.479 --> 01:14:33.920 chef boy. Already what a time. I uh, I know I spoke 997 01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:40.119 about this a little bit earlier, but read listening and going through the whole 998 01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:45.319 day, the whole event is. You know, what we recorded has been 999 01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:51.399 just as eye opening and informational, educational and resourceful as it was when we 1000 01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:58.680 saw at the first when we were their life. Yeah. Any any last 1001 01:14:58.760 --> 01:15:03.359 minute, that last minute, any last thoughts, my own thoughts are things 1002 01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:10.039 that come to mind thinking about you know, this live event that we got 1003 01:15:10.039 --> 01:15:17.359 to attend with the porn conversation. I didn't know how that was the longest 1004 01:15:17.399 --> 01:15:21.479 sentence. It's just like sorry, now you're good. Um, you're the 1005 01:15:21.520 --> 01:15:29.479 longest sentence by my ass um. Yeah, I think like it definitely. 1006 01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:32.199 I think we learned a lot and we're still learning a lot. We're still 1007 01:15:32.279 --> 01:15:38.760 learning a lot. And I think it was more eye opening, or at 1008 01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:41.039 least I think it was different than what we thought it would be in a 1009 01:15:41.159 --> 01:15:45.319 very good way. Yeah, the idea of porn letteracy and porn education. 1010 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:48.640 Yeah, I really didn't know what to expect. Yeah, And I think 1011 01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:56.720 we got a very multifaceted panel and I loved that. I love the conversations 1012 01:15:56.720 --> 01:16:00.279 coming from two very different point of views, one being you know, a 1013 01:16:00.319 --> 01:16:06.239 sex worker, one being a sex sex educator and parent. Um. It's 1014 01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:10.680 very fun seeing different people on the same team, but just coming at it 1015 01:16:10.720 --> 01:16:15.159 from incredibly different angaesum, And that was really nice. I just thought it 1016 01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:17.399 was a very respectful conversation. I know, you learned a lot. I 1017 01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:21.520 learned a lot. We're still just learning a lot. I pride ourselves in 1018 01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:29.319 the way we try to just keep our little noddle going. Yeah, and 1019 01:16:30.119 --> 01:16:32.680 it's been nice. It was really fun. It was nice being in a 1020 01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:38.680 room with guests and people that were also in some type of sex industry. 1021 01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:43.399 Right. There's sex therapists there, and a sex agent, a sex a 1022 01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:48.319 sex worker agent and such. There's just we're usually the freaks in the room 1023 01:16:48.319 --> 01:16:53.159 who talk about sex. Yeah, so it was very fun to be in 1024 01:16:53.199 --> 01:16:56.920 a place where we all do that. Um. So we met lots of 1025 01:16:56.920 --> 01:17:01.119 fun people. I do want to express my gratitude it again to Um Sarah 1026 01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:09.239 with Erica Lust with Avril Um of the Porn Conversation for inviting us to record 1027 01:17:09.359 --> 01:17:14.000 an interview and be part of this event, um during South by E DU 1028 01:17:14.920 --> 01:17:18.439 and just kind of welcoming us with open arms. Something. I kept meaning 1029 01:17:18.479 --> 01:17:23.560 to ask how they found us because it's so important to me, just because 1030 01:17:23.560 --> 01:17:27.920 I'm such an Erica Lust fan. Um. But yeah, it was a 1031 01:17:27.960 --> 01:17:35.000 really good time. I I think it's definitely an experience that we'll remember for 1032 01:17:35.119 --> 01:17:42.439 a good while, an everlasting experience. Yeah. No, I am We're 1033 01:17:42.479 --> 01:17:48.039 truly grateful to everyone and Melissa and Nor Melissa Nor yeah, just everyone. 1034 01:17:48.079 --> 01:17:55.239 It was it was it was a experience I shan't forget. Yeah. Yeah, 1035 01:17:55.279 --> 01:17:58.079 special thanks to Wild Bloom, who hosted the event. It's such a 1036 01:17:58.079 --> 01:18:00.840 fun space. ULL have to go and get some gummies from there. We 1037 01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:06.439 do love a gummy. I love I love a gummy. Until next time, 1038 01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:11.399 guys. I know this is a very different style episode. If you're 1039 01:18:11.439 --> 01:18:15.760 listening because you're in one of our bottled up bitches and you're one of our 1040 01:18:16.119 --> 01:18:20.319 amazing listeners, or you're brand new here and you're a big fan of one 1041 01:18:20.319 --> 01:18:24.640 of the speakers, or south by er Erica lest and you're brand new, 1042 01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:28.119 welcome. Um. This is a space for learning and a space for I 1043 01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:31.960 say, learning from like an average place. We're not educators, No, 1044 01:18:32.720 --> 01:18:39.000 we're not educators. We're just a couple of open minded married slobs, just 1045 01:18:39.039 --> 01:18:42.600 slobs, just slops, just doing our best. Just a slap like one 1046 01:18:42.640 --> 01:18:48.880 of us. Doo doo doo doom. Yeah, thank you everyone. Um. 1047 01:18:50.359 --> 01:18:56.119 So many informations of people's will be in the description of this episode, 1048 01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:59.840 so go check that out so you can follow and find all these amazing, 1049 01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:04.119 very intelligent people and the yeah there links their websites that they represent a few 1050 01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:10.199 different websites that we're brought up for resources. I think it was a kink 1051 01:19:10.279 --> 01:19:14.079 university and stuff like that. We should probably link ye, So yeah, 1052 01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:15.159 I hope you enjoy this, hope this was a resource for you. I 1053 01:19:15.199 --> 01:19:19.600 hope you enjoy the conversation and this new format that we put together. And 1054 01:19:21.239 --> 01:19:26.239 yeah, yeah, have a nice little treat in between seasons, A nice 1055 01:19:26.279 --> 01:19:29.239 little treat. Come back for season four, good mine for season four. 1056 01:19:29.239 --> 01:19:32.159 You We'll see y'all soon. We'll see you early April, say Horny Bitches. 1057 01:19:34.800 --> 01:19:39.199 If you enjoy today's episode of Balled Up Bitches, be sure to rate 1058 01:19:39.239 --> 01:19:43.079 and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast to join in on more of our 1059 01:19:43.159 --> 01:19:46.800 conversations and fun. You can follow us on social media at bottled up Bitches 1060 01:19:46.840 --> 01:19:51.479 on Instagram and bottled up Talk on Twitter, and write in your sexcapas and 1061 01:19:51.479 --> 01:19:55.880 anything you want to share with the team at bottled up Talk at gmail dot 1062 01:19:55.920 --> 01:20:00.000 com. Cover art for battled Up Bitches is created by Winston Gambro. Episodes 1063 01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:03.960 are produced and edited by Rihanna Campbell and Adam Lewis. This has been a 1064 01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:06.840 Cricket Bunny production. Stay Horny Bitches,