1
00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:06,599
Without question, the hardest putt in
golf is a straight putt. There's nothing

2
00:00:06,639 --> 00:00:11,160
harder than a straight putt because you're
always trying to read something into it one

3
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,759
way or the other. But if
you have a green that's got zero to

4
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,320
three percent slopes, all that is
pretty cupable that you'll experience on a golf

5
00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,079
course. It's okay to have some
modernness and some movement in a green for

6
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,399
some longer putts. Bigger putting greens
are better, obviously because you have a

7
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,200
little more flexibility with some slopes.
But when it comes down to putting,

8
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,719
most people that are working on their
game just want to hit putts with a

9
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,840
cup of break inside or outside plus
or minus. That's how you're going to

10
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,039
improve. Hi. This is Wes
Smith, Lost Angeles, California, and

11
00:00:48,119 --> 00:00:52,280
I love playing the Wilson Course and
gripp of Parts. This is Golf Smarter

12
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:58,679
number nine hundred and twenty two.
The architect of Michael Jordan's Ultra Exclusive,

13
00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:04,680
Ultra Private Gold golf Course, Bobby
Weed. This is golf Smarter sharing stories,

14
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:10,120
tips and insights from great golf minds
to help you lower your score and

15
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:15,760
raise your golf IQ. There's your
host, Fred Green. Welcome to the

16
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,519
Golf Smarter podcast. Bobby. Thanks
Fred, good to be with you this

17
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,640
morning. Good to be with you
too. I'm very excited. I like

18
00:01:23,799 --> 00:01:29,959
talking about golf course design. I
think that the amateur golfer can learn so

19
00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:37,760
much from hearing what a course architect
thinks about when they're designing a course to

20
00:01:37,879 --> 00:01:44,239
help them improve how they approach every
time they go out. So I'm really

21
00:01:44,239 --> 00:01:48,400
looking to pick your brain today.
Sure, I love talking golf. I

22
00:01:48,439 --> 00:01:53,480
love talking design, construction, maintenance, all things golf. Anybody that's a

23
00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:57,840
friend of golf with a friend of
mine, for sure hurt that one before

24
00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:01,920
and I love it. I want
to get the I want to start by

25
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,680
getting the elephant out of the way. And that is a project that you've

26
00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:09,439
worked on recently. I'm not sure
if it's still in progress or what the

27
00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:15,240
story is, but Grove twenty three, the golf course you're designing for Michael

28
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:21,199
Jordan. Wow, Yeah, that's
in the rearview Mara as far as projects

29
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,080
go, but pretty vivid because it
was such a great experience. I think

30
00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:30,199
we started that project in twenty seventeen
and worked on it through twenty eighteen and

31
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:36,360
it opened. We had a grand
opening Super Bowl party grand opening in twenty

32
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,039
nineteen, if I recall, and
it was a really good project. My

33
00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:47,680
new associate was an intern then,
Joey Graziani. That was his first job.

34
00:02:47,759 --> 00:02:53,120
I took him down to I took
him over to the Medalist to look

35
00:02:53,199 --> 00:02:58,240
at what we had done there,
and he met Tiger Woods. Spent a

36
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,520
little time with Tiger at the Medal
and then we went over to the Grove

37
00:03:01,159 --> 00:03:05,639
and I ended up meeting Michael Jordan. And I looked at Joy and I'm

38
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,800
like, Joey, this is not
an everyday experience. This is not the

39
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,479
norm. But uh, it was. It was a lot of fun.

40
00:03:15,879 --> 00:03:20,800
And how is it that you got
hooked up with Michael Jordan for this?

41
00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:25,479
We had some mutual friends. Michael
was a member of the Medalist and I

42
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:32,680
had I had redone renovated and restored
the medalists more closely back to what Pete

43
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:39,000
had done in nineteen ninety five,
and the course had gone through a number

44
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:46,560
of changes, transformations, et cetera. And so I came in and ultimately

45
00:03:46,199 --> 00:03:52,680
received the assignment. And uh,
and that's where I met my MJ and

46
00:03:53,719 --> 00:03:59,879
some of his friends. And when
it came time for him to do his

47
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,000
golf course, my name was brought
up along with others that he had already

48
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,319
talked to and interviewed, so I
was able to get in front of him

49
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:11,400
and and so he was familiar with
some of my golf courses, and of

50
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,520
course I'd met him at the Medalist
and uh a few other mutual friends that

51
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,000
were involved in the project encouraged me
to to come and speak to him,

52
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:26,560
and I did, and and we
did some routing plans, uh and and

53
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,560
it just all came together and worked
out really good, really good. So

54
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,199
were you auditioning, were you competing
against other architects on this one that that

55
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,360
you had to win the job?
Or was it yours from the start?

56
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,040
I don't know how much of a
competition it was, but yes, MJ

57
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:51,759
had talked to a number of other
very prominent architects, and uh so my

58
00:04:51,519 --> 00:04:56,480
my my partner at the time,
Chris Monty, and I did some routings

59
00:04:56,519 --> 00:05:03,040
and presented some routings and they were
actually uh intriguing and unique and different in

60
00:05:03,079 --> 00:05:08,639
the fact that it was kind of
a double helix, so that you could

61
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:16,519
we had two nines, but we
had a crossover from number four to five

62
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,839
and from number thirteen to fourteen a
little crossover there, so you could literally

63
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:29,160
play one through four and then just
walk over and play thirteen through eighteen,

64
00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:32,759
or play the back ten through thirteen, cross over and play five through nine,

65
00:05:33,439 --> 00:05:38,759
So in essence, you could play
four different nines. And that really

66
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:46,319
caught everybody's attention. And the site
was kind of a square like configuration of

67
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:51,879
about two hundred and twenty seven acres. It was a former citrus grove that

68
00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:58,800
had grown over and there was cattle
out there at this time, and it

69
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,199
was a mess, was a real
mess. And because of the cattle,

70
00:06:03,639 --> 00:06:10,319
well, just the property had just
sat sat fallow for the decades and they

71
00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:14,360
had tried to start a bit of
a tree farm. But the two distinguishing

72
00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:19,120
factories because they we talked about two
sites, and so I was able to

73
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:24,680
interject and offer my opinion on which
site, and I chose the site with

74
00:06:24,759 --> 00:06:30,839
two really big agricultural drainage canals on
two sides, and I thought that that

75
00:06:30,879 --> 00:06:38,360
could be a potential benefit from a
drainage standpoint, obviously, but also from

76
00:06:38,399 --> 00:06:44,000
a feature. And it was a
really big drainage ditch, probably fifty feet

77
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,839
wide and twenty feet deep. But
the cattle had been up and down at

78
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:54,399
and it was just it was just
silted in, degraded. But it's still

79
00:06:54,439 --> 00:07:01,720
function for agricultural purposes. But I
thought in my mind that working with Pete

80
00:07:02,079 --> 00:07:08,480
for as long as I have,
that he too would find something intriguing about

81
00:07:08,519 --> 00:07:13,240
these canals. And uh and plus
it adds a lot of security on two

82
00:07:13,319 --> 00:07:18,040
sides. So so that's kind of
the site that I recommended. And they

83
00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:23,600
they bit on that, and they
liked our they liked our routing, and

84
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:29,639
off we were. Wow. Is
assuming this is in Florida? Yes,

85
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:35,600
South Florida, just north of Palm
Beach in Hope Sound. And is this

86
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:42,279
all Michael Jordan's land? Is this
a very private, very exclusive thing that

87
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:47,560
it's in Michael's backyard? It is? It is? Wow, that's a

88
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,439
lot of land. Well, there
was a lot of land up there.

89
00:07:50,439 --> 00:07:57,800
It was a former defunct project that
was that was the Hope Sound Polo Club,

90
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,079
So it had a lot of acreage
associate with it. And it didn't

91
00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:07,800
it didn't make it. And so
this thing was parceled out and and and

92
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:13,000
MJ subsequently bought the bought that particular
parcel, and today there's probably five or

93
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,279
six more golf courses being constructed right
around us as we speak today. So

94
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:24,759
all of a sudden, you know, as as property, so there's really

95
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:30,199
no available property in Palm Beach County, so a lot of the development has

96
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:37,399
just moved north towards Stuart. And
so you go from Palm Beach to up

97
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,080
to Jupiter, and then from Jupiter
up to Hope Sound and then from Hope

98
00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:46,720
Sound on up to Stuart on the
east coast of Florida. And while we're

99
00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:50,120
not on the ocean, uh and
we're not on the intra Coastal Waterway,

100
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:58,360
we're in some some some old farm
land, former citrus groves and so,

101
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,639
and we're not too far off of
the Interstate I ninety five. So we're

102
00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:09,679
in that little corridor in Hope Doam
Martin County, and that's where a lot

103
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,080
of growth and a lot of development
is migrating north out of the Palm Beach

104
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:20,000
area. Today, we have another
program called Golf Smarter Mulligans where we replay

105
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,840
old episodes that are just no longer
on the Internet anymore, but there's still

106
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,960
of interest and of value for you
know, amateur golfers to learn things and

107
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:39,360
recently replayed an interview I did with
Jeffrey Brower about his course in Dallas of

108
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:45,960
the Cowboys Golf Course, an NFL
themed golf course. In working with MJ,

109
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,200
did he have any themes that he
wanted to cover or there are things

110
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:58,840
that he wanted thematically on his golf
course that represented number twenty three that were

111
00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:05,039
unique. No, but some of
that, some of that evolved and and

112
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,279
some of those just happenstance, you
know, his instructions. We had a

113
00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:13,080
we had a meeting early on and
it was like a little team meeting and

114
00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:16,720
the coach came in and we all
were there, all the consultants were there,

115
00:10:18,159 --> 00:10:24,399
and he know he uh, he
interjected as the owner and said that,

116
00:10:24,799 --> 00:10:26,440
you know, just build me the
best golf course, build me the

117
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:31,159
best practice facilities. Don't worry about
the clubhouse. It'll take care of itself.

118
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,519
And he really liked our plan.
And you know, we're just one

119
00:10:35,639 --> 00:10:39,279
of many of many of the team
members. As far as consultants go,

120
00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:45,120
you have you know, you have
contractors actually doing the work that we oversee.

121
00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:50,159
We have surveyors that were out there, We had engineers that were helping

122
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,039
us with the with the property and
the drainage, et cetera. So they're

123
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,120
they're there are and this comes with
any This is typical of any golf course

124
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:05,399
project on a new design and even
renovations to some degree. So you put

125
00:11:05,399 --> 00:11:09,879
together a team of consultants. And
it was really interesting because we were all

126
00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:16,200
in this uh in this room for
a meeting and MJ was kind of holding

127
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,679
court and interjecting, you know how
excited he was and he wanted to be

128
00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:24,720
involved. And of course I said, look, you know, you come

129
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,720
out here as often as frequently as
you would like to. I'd love to

130
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,159
because so you know, seventy percent
of what you're spending out here is really

131
00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:37,039
going to be underneath your golf shoes. And I said, I think it

132
00:11:37,039 --> 00:11:39,799
would be great for you to come
out and see, and I'll be dogged.

133
00:11:39,799 --> 00:11:41,840
And he came out. He came
out as often as he could.

134
00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:48,360
He come out once twice a week
and and and ride with us on the

135
00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:52,240
golf course. And you had to
be on your toes. And from the

136
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,480
very beginning when it was just nothing
but scrub and we just had TVC pipe

137
00:11:56,519 --> 00:12:00,879
sticking up, and I'm like,
this is the clubhouse and a bit elevation

138
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,480
twenty three and you know, you
know, and here's what we envisioned,

139
00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:09,639
and we had gone over the routing
plan. But now to be out in

140
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,399
the field and seeing this vast amount
of acreage, it was it was a

141
00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:18,440
little overwhelming, you know, for
him to to see the sight in the

142
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,919
condition that was in and to you
know, to visualize, you know,

143
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:28,720
what it might be in in twelve
months. But as he came out and

144
00:12:28,759 --> 00:12:33,600
we started going around and we started
digging lakes, and we started moving dirt

145
00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:37,840
and started shaping, and a lot
of activities were going on. We had

146
00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:41,639
drainage underway, we had irrigation that
started after we got a whole shaped in.

147
00:12:41,919 --> 00:12:46,879
But he was able to come out
enough and see things like the irrigation

148
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,399
lake and and the pump house and
you know, little things that you know

149
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,360
that you'll never see again that were
that were so meaningful at an early at

150
00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,519
early juncture, so that he was
you know, he came out and he

151
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:07,039
was excited and just I think he
really enjoyed the process of being part of

152
00:13:07,639 --> 00:13:11,039
part of the gang out there,
and you know, it was you know,

153
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,080
it was gonna be the shiny new
toy for him, and uh,

154
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,159
you know, just like when you
wake up on Christmas morning as a kid

155
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,080
man, you're just so excited.
And that's kind of the way he was

156
00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:24,600
when he came out. He was, you know, full of energy and

157
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:31,039
and you know, pumping everybody up
and meeting and greeting and just you know,

158
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,720
being one of the gang. He
loves being on a team. We're

159
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,320
gonna take a time out. Well, I have more questions about this project,

160
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:46,519
and we'll do that right after this. I have so many more questions

161
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:52,399
to talk about The Grove twenty three
Michael Jordan's golf course. So is this

162
00:13:54,679 --> 00:14:00,000
It's obviously not a public course,
but are there memberships available for this golf

163
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,879
course or is it just Michael's backyard
And if he invites you out to play,

164
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,600
you get to play. No,
there's a membership. There is a

165
00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:13,679
membership. It's imitation only. Imitation
only. And Michael is enteredally involved with

166
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:22,519
the process. And ken Wayne ken
Wyan is the gm Director of Golf and

167
00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:28,360
and very much involved in the in
the whole process as as is MJ.

168
00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:33,759
And so yeah, I can't tell
you how many members we have because I

169
00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:39,639
really don't know Okay, you know
you had to sign an NDA to talk

170
00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:45,679
about it. No, not at
but I truly don't know. We're a

171
00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:52,600
few years removed from when we opened
in nineteen and but it's been wildly successful.

172
00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:58,840
We've now built some cottages, the
membership, the membership has grown,

173
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,679
uh the initiation has has escalated somewhat
as well. So uh, no,

174
00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:11,039
it's I think it's been everything,
you know, for somebody that can have

175
00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:16,759
anything and everything he wants and be
anywhere he wants to be. I was

176
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:22,320
down there a year or so ago
and a new MJ was playing. I

177
00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:26,240
walked out to Number nine Green,
which is adjacent to the clubhouse, and

178
00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:30,679
waited for him to put out,
and he had a big he had a

179
00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:33,639
big group that he was playing with, and he came gave me a big

180
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,080
hug, and you know, he
just leaned down and said, you know,

181
00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:41,840
I can pretty much be anywhere I
want to be in the world right

182
00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:46,759
now. He said that there's no
place I'd rather be than right here playing

183
00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:52,279
golf with with what you created.
So I mean that that that said that

184
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,399
says it all right there. So
I mean, that's that's quite a compty.

185
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,440
We've been good friends I mean I
can pick up the phone or call

186
00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:03,399
him or him and uh, you
know, as busy as he as he

187
00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:06,759
is, what he what all he
has going on? You know, he's

188
00:16:06,799 --> 00:16:10,320
just a great guy. And and
just you know, I don't know anybody

189
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,159
that loves the game of golf more
than he does. He's very passionate,

190
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:19,039
and he typically gets involved in something, and he's involved now in fishing.

191
00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:22,440
He loves to fish. Now,
all of a sudden, the last few

192
00:16:22,519 --> 00:16:27,240
years he's really got gotten into fishing. He now has a NASCAR race team.

193
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,360
So you know, whatever he does, he jumps in right into the

194
00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:38,120
deep end and and goes at it
really really all in. And that's just

195
00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:45,159
his nature. He's just he's just
an incredibly competitive individual. And uh and

196
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:51,120
as a result, he's become extremely
successful in the business world. I see,

197
00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:55,879
h you mentioned that the clubhouse.
Did you say the elevation is at

198
00:16:55,879 --> 00:16:59,279
twenty three feet plus or mind us? Yeah, above sea levels. That's

199
00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:02,639
pretty cool. Have loved that.
What's the square footage of the clubhouse?

200
00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:07,119
How is it? It's not It's
not extravagantly big in any way. It

201
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:12,440
looks it comes across as one story. Obviously, it has a it has

202
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,119
a full basement for all the golf
carts and and and and other and other

203
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:26,880
related services. But it's it's very
open. It's a wonderful contemporary, progressive

204
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:33,960
style clubhouse. The architects down in
South Florida did a wonderful job. It's

205
00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:41,039
big locker room, big uh,
big seating area, dining area, lounge

206
00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:47,119
area, very comfortable uh and just
you know exactly what you would think coming

207
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,759
from m J. Very hip.
Got a great vibe to it, and

208
00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:56,240
everybody there just loves to be there. M amazing. And is it just

209
00:17:56,319 --> 00:18:00,880
the golf course or did you also
get to prepare a practice facility for him?

210
00:18:02,759 --> 00:18:06,880
We have some world class practice facilities. I have a little I've had

211
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:12,079
a little association with Butch Harmon over
the years doing together, and Butch called

212
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,559
me up after we open, he
says, Bobby. I hear the golf

213
00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:18,640
course is great. I heard the
practice facilities are the best on the planet.

214
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,680
Like, but you've been around the
planet a lot, a lot more

215
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,119
frequently than I have. I said, but that's you know, everybody seems

216
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:32,000
to really enjoy it. It's some
state of the art and it is a

217
00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:36,000
real drawl for a lot of the
tour players that live down in that area

218
00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:41,400
really come up and practices. It's
just it's like nothing else anybody's ever seen,

219
00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:45,880
and I'd love some details. What
makes it unique? Well, I

220
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:52,200
worked with Darren May. Darren May
had a concept called h e B Let's

221
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,640
see eb C Every Ball Counts.
He developed this concept using a lot of

222
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,920
the shot Link data that the p
A Tour is produced. So today,

223
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:08,640
as as a tour player, you
really know exactly where you stand ranking wise

224
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,680
as to you know your game,
how you rank, and you know inside

225
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,079
of one hundred yards you know,
and then in almost in twenty five yard

226
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,240
increments beyond that, you know you
always know how you rank. And putting

227
00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:30,119
and up and down. The stats
that are associated with shot Link is just

228
00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:33,319
mind boggling. How much data is
available. You know, how long you

229
00:19:33,319 --> 00:19:38,559
know, the longest drivers and just
everything you can imagine. So Darren and

230
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:45,519
his partners put together this concept that
they could that they could take this data

231
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:53,359
and and build a facility to where
we built target greens within with twenty five

232
00:19:53,440 --> 00:20:00,119
yard increments, and we we we
separated each green in the quadrants. And

233
00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:04,519
he's got all of this pro he's
got this program He's put together that you

234
00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:10,160
can go out there and work.
You know, if you're deficient in your

235
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,319
in your shots from less than one
hundred yards seventy five yards fifty yards,

236
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,960
you can really go out there and
focus and tune in on that. We

237
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:25,759
built a We built an engineered green, which is basically a rectangle, and

238
00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:32,319
we have four quadrants in this rectangle
and one quadrant we have the green sloping

239
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,599
from zero to one percent. We
have one to two percent, two to

240
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,200
three percent, and three to four
percent in a quadrant. So you know,

241
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,720
just little it's an engineered green that
you haven't seen many like that.

242
00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:51,920
We have little ramps and runways to
hit bump and run shots. We have

243
00:20:52,559 --> 00:21:00,599
situational greens with bunkers that really test
test the skill level. And what I

244
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,559
really like about it is, yes, it's set up to assist the best

245
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:10,519
golfers in the world as on the
PGA Tour, but also from a college

246
00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:15,759
standpoint, from even from an A
j G A standpoint. For these juniors

247
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,880
and even for the members, they
can go out there and get feedback.

248
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,960
I mean a member is going out
there trying to hit the green right a

249
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,640
j G A and college or they're
trying to get into these quadrants and certainly

250
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:33,200
the tour pros are focused on that. So it's designed and set up to

251
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,960
where everybody can and get feedback and
results on what they're doing. And uh,

252
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:45,000
we have we have some fairways set
up for for the for the driving

253
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:51,319
lanes, we have some criss cross
X shaped driving lanes that we can We

254
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,440
have fairways that are set up for
us open with type fairways and wider fairways

255
00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:02,640
as well. So all of this
is just providing feedback to to the player.

256
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,200
And of course the we have t's
on both ends, so all of

257
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,559
the e b C and all of
the practical facilities and in the in the

258
00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:15,640
buildings and all the instruction that goes
on is on one end of the range

259
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,559
is on the south end and on
the north end is really for members only

260
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:26,920
in their gas and we have some
similar practice facilities on both ends. So

261
00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:34,319
uh so it's a rather large acreage
of practice area, and we can we

262
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:41,440
can seed greens for bent grass,
overseed for bent grass for practicing uh and

263
00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:45,799
also for bermuda grass. So we
have a we have a number we have

264
00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:49,640
a number of ways that players can
come down and get ready for events whether

265
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,319
they're in the winter or in the
summer as well. So it just goes

266
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:59,599
on and on and on forcts of
facilities. But a number a number of

267
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,160
archete have called and said, hey, can can we go look at your

268
00:23:03,319 --> 00:23:07,519
practice facilities because you know, we
have our we have potential clients that say

269
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,640
we want something like that. So
that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.

270
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,640
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to
ask you more about that. I want

271
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,319
to take another break first, and
then uh, we'll continue this conversation.

272
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:27,720
Sure, we're right back with Bobby
Weed. I'm curious, Bobby, if

273
00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:33,920
there are elements that you've designed into
Grove twenty three or at the world class

274
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,400
practice facility that you've been able to
incorporate to other projects since you've done that.

275
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,759
Well, yeah, we're just finishing
a project in New Orleans at the

276
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:49,039
at the old New Orleans Country Club
and we've taken a few of those elements.

277
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,400
You know, people like to practice
a lot. Yeah, almost,

278
00:23:52,519 --> 00:24:00,319
it's almost because therapeutic for people to
practice to hit balls, because you know,

279
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,400
they all kind of understand now what
Gary Player said many many decades ago

280
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:10,119
about you know, the more a
practice, so luckier I get I always

281
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,160
love that. I always love that
comment, and it's so true. You

282
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,240
get out of it what you put
into it. But at New Orleans,

283
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:23,240
we have a very limited area.
We don't even have a full really full

284
00:24:23,319 --> 00:24:32,839
regulation range. But we were able
to make a little more additional space available.

285
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,960
We have a short game, a
little three green short game area that

286
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:40,519
I tell people, you know,
if you were to go down there two

287
00:24:40,599 --> 00:24:44,359
and three times a week and practice
around a short game, and we have

288
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,200
three greens that you can hit from, you can hit up the sixty yard

289
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,960
shots. That's where that's where you're
making making up the shots. And that's

290
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,640
where, with the right kind of
practice, in my opinion, that's where

291
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,079
shots will just drop from your hand. That's how you drop your handicap around,

292
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:06,640
you know, getting it up and
down around greens, practicing over over

293
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,759
the top of bunkers, you know, being able to hit the little bump

294
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:12,559
and run shots, a little texas
weg shots, a little flip shots,

295
00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:18,279
all of those little shots that you
need and and and the more you practice

296
00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:23,279
and get comfortable with that, I
just think your I think your handicap is

297
00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:27,880
just going to you know, continue
to go down. So we've got a

298
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:33,519
really nice short game area that we
built there with three greens with room around

299
00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:37,640
to hit sixty seventy five yard shots. We have a little we have a

300
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,799
little wedge park area with we built
these really small I would call them pancake

301
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:49,839
greens, really small pancake greens.
And my good friend Archie Manning just loves

302
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:56,160
to come out there in the afternoons
and just hit balls and practice and and

303
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,720
you know, again, I just
think it's just therapeutic in so many ways.

304
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,279
And I'll see him out there at
the wedge Park, you know,

305
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,000
just hitting these little fifty yard shots
to these little pancake greens. And so

306
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,720
you know, I've incorporated some of
what Darren May and I built at the

307
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:21,559
Grove, and I try to take
that to some of my new golf courses

308
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:27,319
or when I'm renovating facilities, because
I understand I understand more about practicing today

309
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,720
than ever before. Because when I
went to the Medalists and we redid some

310
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:37,759
of their practice facilities, they've got
maybe twenty twenty five tour pros that are

311
00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:45,519
members there. And what I noticed
is where you have humps and bumps and

312
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:52,319
slopes surrounding a practice facility, that's
the best grass on the area because the

313
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:59,640
players aren't going to practice on those
kind of slopes. They're they're working on

314
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:07,119
two things. They're working on repetition
and they're working on their confidence. And

315
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:11,680
that's that's how they practice. And
they don't, I mean, they don't

316
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:18,079
really want to go practice on big
slopes uphill uphill downhill side slopes and everything

317
00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:22,519
else. They want to practice on
something fairly level because they're working on their

318
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:26,799
stroke, they're working on their confidence, and they're working on their the repetition.

319
00:27:27,599 --> 00:27:33,079
Uh and uh and and I learned
I learned a lot by watching these

320
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:40,720
guys practice and play. I always
have and uh so and when you build

321
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,799
a practice green, everybody wants to
build a practice green with all these all

322
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:49,119
these crazy contours in them. But
you know you're not getting much out of

323
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,240
it when you're when you're having a
hip putts with two foot break, three

324
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:57,519
foot break, you know you're working
on your stroke. You want you want

325
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,480
you want to play it a little
bit out outside the hole. And we

326
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:07,839
all know what the hardest putt and
golf is, without question, the hardest

327
00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:11,880
putt in golf is a straight putt. There's nothing harder there's nothing harder than

328
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:17,799
a straight putt because you're always trying
to read something into it one way or

329
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:22,640
the other. But if you have
a green that's got just you know,

330
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,880
zero to three percent slopes, all
that is pretty cupable that you'll experience on

331
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,480
a golf course. It's okay to
have some modernness and some movement and a

332
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:37,000
green for some longer putts. Bigger
putting greens are better, excuse me,

333
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:40,519
obviously, because you get a little
more you have a little more flexibility with

334
00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:45,839
some slopes. But when it comes
down to putting, most people that are

335
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,720
working on their game, they just
want to hit putts with you know,

336
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:56,519
a cup of break inside or outside, you know, plus reminus. That's

337
00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:00,279
how you're going to improve, I
think more than anything out, So I

338
00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:04,519
pick up on a lot of that
and try to incorporate aspects of that into

339
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:10,440
my design. I don't build a
lot of deep bunkers around practice facilities because

340
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,480
when you're in a bunker, you
actually part part of practicing out of a

341
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:18,880
bunker is seeing what kind of action
the ball has when it hits. When

342
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,079
it comes out of the bunker and
it hits, how much spind does it

343
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,319
have on it is it releasing,
So you really you really don't want to

344
00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:27,559
be hitting out of a deep bunker
that's blind, so you don't and you

345
00:29:27,559 --> 00:29:30,319
don't see it. Yeah, you're
going to experience that on on the golf

346
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:34,440
course from occasions, and and and
and we can have something like that,

347
00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:38,200
but for the majority, we want
to have bunkers that you can see what

348
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,279
the ball is doing when you hit, for example. So just a lot

349
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:47,599
of little mine or miscellaneous things like
that that I think add up to to

350
00:29:47,839 --> 00:29:52,359
help golfers. You know, we
all have big grass cheese. I've never

351
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,920
built a driving range tea too big. I've never built too big. Uh

352
00:29:57,039 --> 00:30:02,000
and more and more, more and
more raine teas now have mats on them,

353
00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:04,799
you know, so for some inclement
weather or if you have an outing,

354
00:30:04,839 --> 00:30:08,000
maybe you put those folks on the
on the match so you don't destroy

355
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,960
all of the turf. But and
the mats are getting better and better.

356
00:30:12,319 --> 00:30:18,440
And what I'm yeah, and what
I'm finding on grass driving ranges is it's

357
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,680
a lot of sand, so it's
not really hitting it like you're hitting it

358
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,720
out on the course. Well that
and that's even more reason to have a

359
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:33,759
bigger tea. So that you have
time for the turf to recoup so that

360
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:37,799
you are hitting on something other than
you know, a sanded area, because

361
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:41,960
that sand can fly up in your
face as well. And the matchs have

362
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:45,559
become much better. I mean there
were there was a time when nobody wanted

363
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:49,079
to hit off those mats because they
just shot a shock wave up your up

364
00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:55,440
your wrist and up your arms.
And but they're much better today, I'll

365
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,680
give them that. And while it's
not the same, there's you know,

366
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:06,680
there's still there's still good feedback from
from hitting balls off a match, but

367
00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:08,720
ideally you want to be on you
know, good clothes, cut turf,

368
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,039
tight of the turf, the better. Yeah. I've noticed for myself that

369
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,519
when I'm hitting off of a good
matt before a round in my warm up,

370
00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:26,200
that I'll play with a lot more
confidence because hitting off of sandy grass

371
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,400
on a on a driving range tends
to be inconsistent on what the ball does

372
00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:34,720
and what you do, and so
it makes it harder to walk up to

373
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:40,000
the first team with a lot of
confidence. And you talk about, you

374
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:47,279
know, practice being so important.
One of my favorite stories about someone who

375
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,599
was an okay golfer, not great, but he was formerly a professional baseball

376
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,680
player. He played in the major
leagues. And I got a chance to

377
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,920
play with him once and he had
just finished six months of recovery from shoulder

378
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,200
surgery. But for the last three
months he was able to chip and putt.

379
00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:08,160
That's all he was allowed to do. And this was his first round

380
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:14,119
back after practicing for three months on
his short game, and it was the

381
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:17,799
first time he'd ever broken eighty.
And he's saying, Yeah, it's all

382
00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:21,960
that short game practice. Man,
It's like, help you so much.

383
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,720
Yeah, break it down and look
at the percentage of how many shots you

384
00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:30,799
hit within one hundred yards of the
grain, and that tells you where you

385
00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:37,119
really should be practicing. Yeah.
Absolutely, So last question about Grove twenty

386
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,400
three, and I'm sorry to drag
that out. If it's an old project,

387
00:32:42,039 --> 00:32:46,359
clearly you finished it just in time
before COVID hit. It sounds like,

388
00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:53,279
are there any elements in that golf
course that you really really like that

389
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:57,680
you thought, oh this is cool, I've not done this before, or

390
00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:02,359
I like the way I incorporated this
into this golf course. Well we we

391
00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:09,200
we have moved, We have continuously
moved the bunkers farther out over the years.

392
00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:15,680
There was a cartoon back in the
twenties over in the British Isles where

393
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:19,599
I don't know who did the cartoon. I think it was in a Banar

394
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:27,759
Darwin book that some cartoonists have put
wheels into the bunkers. So they're talking

395
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:30,680
about this in the twenties. The
other thing they're talking about in the twenties

396
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:36,440
was the advent of the steel chef
taking over the hickory chef always going to

397
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:42,400
change the game, and then the
golf ball going to the Haskell ball and

398
00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:45,119
to the more modern ball. So, I mean, the the topics that

399
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:53,079
we talk about today are no different
than generations passed so so, but but

400
00:33:53,119 --> 00:34:00,640
the bunkers, the bunkers have changed
dramatically. We have what we call angle

401
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:06,279
urns landing areas, and when Donald
Ross was building golf courses, his angle

402
00:34:06,319 --> 00:34:14,639
turn were probably six hundred feet six
fifty seven hundred feet. And when I

403
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:20,199
became when I started working with Pete
Die, it seemed like the industry center

404
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,280
was, you know, the landing
area was seven hundred and fifty feet two

405
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,119
hundred and fifty yards, and that's
kind of where you start positioning your bunkers.

406
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,039
Pete Pete die my mentor was probably
the first to go to eight hundred

407
00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:35,360
feet, probably the first to go
to eight hundred and fifty, and was

408
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,760
the first to go to nine hundred
feet as far as positioning bunkers, and

409
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:45,039
then I think at the ocean course
at Kilwa he went on out beyond that.

410
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,559
So it's almost like we need wheels
on our bunkers so we can move

411
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:53,199
them on out. But when I
was at the grove, we were actually

412
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:59,440
putting bunkers at three twenty five and
three fifty. I never want to take

413
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,599
the driver out of their hand,
out of a player's hand. I surely

414
00:35:02,679 --> 00:35:06,800
don't want to take the driver out
of a tour player's hand. I want

415
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,599
them to have that option. And
I really like it when they put their

416
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:14,159
hand on a couple of clubs,
because now you're bringing the mental aspect of

417
00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:22,760
the game back into play, beyond
just the physical ability. So by by

418
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:30,239
giving the shorter heaters a more wider
landing area, and as you go on

419
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,599
out past three hundred yards, tightening
tightening it up a little bit. Okay,

420
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,840
so you so you you hit it
longer than I do. Fred,

421
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:43,400
Okay, let's just say you hit
it longer than I do. So I'm

422
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,719
going to tighten that landing area for
you a little bit more as you get

423
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,920
farther out, whereas a shorter hitterers, I'm going to give them a little

424
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:57,239
more room they can potentially, you
know, hit a longer club and maybe

425
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:02,239
keep up and catch up around the
green. So and I think strategy is

426
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,519
changing in design. You know,
everybody's trying to compensate for a distance.

427
00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:12,440
I don't want to be the one
that I don't want to be the one

428
00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:17,480
that builds the longest golf course.
I like to still build short par threes

429
00:36:17,559 --> 00:36:22,400
and really long par threes. I
just like the diversity, and I don't

430
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,039
mind. I don't mind having a
couple of short par fours that are even

431
00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:32,159
potentially drivable. We have one that
everybody talks about up at the Travelers event

432
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:38,719
in Hartford at River Highlands number fifteen. It's a drivable hole, and uh,

433
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,039
you know, we see people that
can make two, we see people

434
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:45,639
that can make six on it.
So it comes out a good time in

435
00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:50,920
the round. But building short,
drivable par fours is not as easy as

436
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,480
it seems. There's a lot of
strategy that goes into it. But strategy

437
00:36:54,519 --> 00:37:04,800
in general is important and more important
today because we're trying to combat the distances

438
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,199
that people are hitting the balls today. And I think as an architect,

439
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:15,000
it's an incredibly exciting time because I
think we can be part of the part

440
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,199
of the process, and I think
we can be part of the solution going

441
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:27,679
forward, and we're having to change
our strategic design thoughts and in building golf

442
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:36,079
courses for a much wider range of
golfers today. Golfers, as a beginner

443
00:37:36,159 --> 00:37:39,039
you started, you can't start any
lower than the basement, right, That's

444
00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:45,719
that's where a beginner starts. But
man, the PGA tour players and the

445
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,719
world class players, that ceiling just
keeps getting higher and higher and high.

446
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:58,320
So there there in lies a challenge
today and as a result, when when

447
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,679
we when we sign up on to
do a new project, one of the

448
00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:05,360
first questions is you know who's going
to be playing the golf course. Who

449
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,719
are we building the golf course for? Are we building this golf course to

450
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:13,440
host a tour event? Because Pete
Died built a lot of golf courses where

451
00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:21,079
the clients Landmark Land, Ernie Bossler
and Joe Walcer built I think Pete built

452
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:25,559
maybe twenty three golf courses for Landmark
Land and a lot of them hosted a

453
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:31,679
lot of PGA Tour events, including
Kiowah. And it was it was before

454
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:37,960
Peach, before Pete put a shovel
in the ground, he was told that

455
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,119
that golf course that had not been
built was going to be hosting a Ryder

456
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:49,840
Cup in nineteen ninety one, And
so that's pressure. But I think it's

457
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,519
important to understand who we're building a
golf course for. But absolutely, at

458
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:57,880
the end of the day, first
and foremost, we need to be building

459
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:05,039
more fun, interesting golf course with
more options. Options create interest. And

460
00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:10,320
I'm a big fan of wider corridors, wide, wider pieces of property,

461
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:16,360
wider golf holes versus tree line,
hole after hole after hole, tight tight,

462
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:22,480
tight, tight, And because not
everybody can hit it like Robin Hood,

463
00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:29,840
hole after hole after hole. Now
some tightness here and there creates diversity

464
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,800
and that's good as well. So
I think it's I think it's a mix.

465
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:38,880
Great golf courses have a tendency to
you can you know when to step

466
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,960
on the gas and you know where
there's a stretch of holes that are gettable,

467
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,719
and then there're always going to be
holes where you feel pretty good walking

468
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:52,960
off with a par or a bogey
net par from a handicap standpoint. So

469
00:39:54,719 --> 00:40:01,079
you know, it's I think it's
extremely important to understand our client and who

470
00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:05,320
we're building the golf course for,
which I think is an important question.

471
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,199
It is for me when we start
talking about, you know, the type

472
00:40:09,199 --> 00:40:14,679
of membership, the type of club, who who you know? I like

473
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,880
to also like to know on renovation
work, uh, and I can get

474
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:23,480
this information typically you know, where's
everybody playing from, what tees, what

475
00:40:23,639 --> 00:40:29,239
teas are are people playing from?
What percentage are playing the whites, the

476
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,519
blues, the championship tees, and
the forward t's. It's good to know

477
00:40:32,599 --> 00:40:40,039
that information because it's could feedback as
an architect for us to understand how how

478
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:44,079
to set the golf course up and
how to build for you know, for

479
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:46,960
the client, for the members,
and for the resort guests, for the

480
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,920
you know, just as much information
as we can glean from from the owners

481
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:58,239
that we're working for. Wow,
we're going to take one more break here,

482
00:40:59,079 --> 00:41:02,880
maybe one more is because we're getting
so much out of you and I

483
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,320
just love spending this time. So
we're going to take a break. We'll

484
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,760
be back right after this. This
week on Golf Smarter Mulligan's is the return

485
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,679
of Doctor Joe parent as we celebrate
ten years of his incredibly popular book Zen

486
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:21,559
Golf, Mastering the Mental Game.
But as our conversations usually go with Doctor

487
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:25,159
Joe, it's not completely serious.
You know. Most people say I'll take

488
00:41:25,199 --> 00:41:29,639
that one. Now, that's an
interesting expression. Don't you have to take

489
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:32,599
that one? It's golf, you
know. They say I'll take it.

490
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,400
I say, yeah, yeah,
you have to take it. That was

491
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,440
your shot. No, no,
you know what, I'm going to go

492
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,119
out and play this afternoon, and
I swear the first guy to say I'll

493
00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:44,079
take that go no, no,
no, sorry, that one doesn't count.

494
00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:46,239
That doesn't count. Yeah you have
to take no, yes, I'll

495
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,760
take it. No you want to
say, yes, that's the way I

496
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,000
hit it. When I do a
good routine and trust my swing, you

497
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:59,440
say something that reinforces your preparation.
So if you keep reinforcing the preparation,

498
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:02,639
preparational, keep being better. If
you have a picture of the target and

499
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:07,039
connection to the target and the shot
you want to hit, that you've done

500
00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:10,880
your breathing and gotten settled and if
you reinforce them in the post shark routine,

501
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,920
then they'll keep getting better. If
you just say, yeah, that's

502
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,480
how I always hit it, that's
a great confidence builder. Originally published in

503
00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:22,639
twenty twelve is Golf Smarter number three
hundred and thirty one. It's no longer

504
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:29,239
available on any podcast platform, So
now it's episode two hundred and thirty eight

505
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,639
of Golf Smarter Mulligans with Doctor Joe
Parent, author of Zen Golf, Zen

506
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,679
Putting Golf, The Art of the
Mental Game, How to Make Every Putt,

507
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:43,320
and his latest Zen Tennis. So
if Golf Smarter is one of your

508
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,559
favorite golf podcasts, then please don't
miss the chance to get two episodes each

509
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:53,159
week with Golf Smarter and Golf Smarter
Mulligans. They're both available for free from

510
00:42:53,159 --> 00:43:00,480
wherever you're listening right now. Now. This is fun. I could do

511
00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:07,039
this every week. I can do
this every month. Okay. I'm actually

512
00:43:07,079 --> 00:43:15,320
doing at the State of Florida more
golf courses than anybody else, and I

513
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,239
think Palm Beach County has like one
hundred and seventy five golf courses in the

514
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:27,679
county. But we have a we
have chapters for Superintendent chapters from all throughout

515
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,639
the state. We have like I
don't know, seven or eight chapters,

516
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:36,360
and we have a magazine called The
Florida Green that goes to all the superintendents

517
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,800
and goes to board members, committee
members, presidents, except you know,

518
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:46,920
club anybody, anybody golf. So
I started writing some articles, a feature

519
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:53,079
article on a quarterly basis or however
many times they come out with the magazine.

520
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:58,920
And I've actually kind of enjoyed writing
some of these articles. I write

521
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,679
them, I write, you know, towards the superintendent because that's my largest

522
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:09,800
audience. But I think that the
editors are trying to expand the base of

523
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:15,440
who who receives and gets and reads
this, uh, this publication, and

524
00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:22,920
so I'm trying to put a little
more information in there that lends itself to

525
00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:30,920
board members, committee members, things
like that, beyond just golf course superintendents.

526
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:37,840
Because we have we have I'm blessed
to have been exposed to design,

527
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:44,440
construction, maintenance, and operations,
uh, And I think that helps me

528
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:50,360
having that diversity. I think it
really helps me as a as a as

529
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:58,360
a designer and in every aspect because
I tell people all the time that design

530
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:07,360
complements maintenance and maintenance complements designed.
Imagine Augusta National being maintained like the worst

531
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,039
Muni you've ever played. Yeah right, yeah, completely different. Then again,

532
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:15,440
there's a lot of golf courses that
aren't maintained to a very high level,

533
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:22,119
are maintained to a very high level
that don't have that architectural integrity.

534
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:29,480
So there's a real balance between maintenance
and design. It's so interesting that you

535
00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:31,679
bring that up because one of the
questions that I wanted to discuss with you

536
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:40,519
was I read an article that it
was seven things that the maintenance crew wants

537
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:46,679
amateur golfers to understand about how to
keep your golf course in good shape.

538
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,000
And I'm curious. I was going
to ask you name some things that a

539
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:59,280
golf course architect wants the amateur golfer, the recreational golfer to understand about the

540
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,920
golf course, you know, in
their design. And by the way,

541
00:46:04,159 --> 00:46:07,320
as you write these articles, love
to have you come on and talk about

542
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,079
these articles. If you want to
do that, that would be a blast.

543
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:15,199
But what are some of the things
that that as a golf course architect

544
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,320
that you put in your design?
Going God, I really hope that the

545
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:24,239
amateur golfer understands what I just did
here. Well, I would say probably

546
00:46:24,679 --> 00:46:30,000
one of the more important items is
speed of play. It seems to be

547
00:46:30,199 --> 00:46:36,559
speed of play is is is dragging
the game down a little bit. And

548
00:46:36,639 --> 00:46:38,159
the fact that you know, we
need to we need to play faster,

549
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:45,400
we need to play ready golf.
So as a as an architect and designing

550
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:50,760
golf courses, cart paths are very
important as well. Minor deal, but

551
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,000
you know, a lot of golf
courses require cart paths. What I would

552
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:58,800
love to build every golf course with
no car pass really, but so many

553
00:46:59,199 --> 00:47:04,719
rely on cart pass and golf carts
and golf cart revenue. UH. That

554
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:10,079
falls in with it. But you
know, we have two criteria for cart

555
00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:15,199
pass keep them out of sight and
keep them out of play to as great

556
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:20,880
an extent as possible. That's that's
really the two criteria that we're always trying

557
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,440
to provide. Uh and also with
the intent of helping speed a play.

558
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:32,320
Bunkers, bunker placement. A number
of bunkers. Bunkers are so costly today

559
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:40,079
until I think there's a little pullback
on size of bunkers and bunker maintenance,

560
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:45,719
and that maintenance costs gets ultimately handed
down to somebody, and it's typically the

561
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:52,280
consumer being the player or the member. So I'm seeing maybe a different style

562
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:59,960
of bunker, maybe less bunkers going
forward, maybe other forms of of heilic

563
00:48:00,199 --> 00:48:06,159
and and swells and hollows uh in
lieu of maybe so many bunkers, because

564
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:10,719
bunkers can slow down play as well. And positioning of bunkers. You know,

565
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,079
you really, you really want to
get these bunkers out there to where

566
00:48:15,159 --> 00:48:25,559
it's uh creating interest and and and
and and a challenge and strategy. And

567
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:30,400
you know, there's a there's an
old saying that that that Pete somebody somebody

568
00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:35,079
Uh. We were having a conversation
and somebody asked, Pete, die,

569
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,719
but you don't need to put that
bunker there, that bunker. You don't

570
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:42,800
need those bunkers over there, because
that's how of play. And Pete looked

571
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,599
at him and said, not so
fast. When you leave the tea,

572
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:53,039
it's all in play. And truer
words have never been spoken when you think

573
00:48:53,039 --> 00:49:00,320
about it. So bunkers, bunker
placement, bunker size, car paths,

574
00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:05,920
uh, you know, trying to
minimize out of bounds. That's the function

575
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:15,039
of the of the property. You
know, we're always we're always trying to

576
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:21,480
minimize force carries to some degree.
You just you're it's inevitable to have a

577
00:49:21,519 --> 00:49:24,360
force carry at some point on the
golf hole or through the golf course.

578
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,800
But you know, having force carries
hole after hole after hole. Uh.

579
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,400
You know, the majority of the
people that play the game play the game

580
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:42,239
on the ground, and when you
really peel back the layers, there's less

581
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,960
than twenty percent of the people that
play the game that have a valid handicap.

582
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:52,599
Wow, which is an interesting stat. So, uh, you know,

583
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,840
while while the players at the highest
level, we turn the TV on

584
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,440
and we're watching the PGA Tour week
after week, we're watching the LPGA,

585
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:07,079
we're watching these U s c A
events, and we're seeing golf played at

586
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:09,840
the highest level. You know,
they're in they're playing the ball in the

587
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:15,039
air. You know, they don't
really see bunkers in front of the greens

588
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:22,480
like amateur does. Amateur seeing water
in front of a green, seeing bunkers

589
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,760
in front of a green, you
know, it just it just takes the

590
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:30,239
air out of them almost immediately.
Whereas the tour pros, you know,

591
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:34,639
they're in the air, they're flying
see their target. You know, you

592
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:38,440
know their their goal is to you
know, to get within close approximate semity

593
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,480
of the pen. They want to
know the exact yard is to the pen.

594
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,599
Whereas the amateur is one hundred percent
satisfied with hitting the green. That's

595
00:50:46,639 --> 00:50:50,960
all you want to do is hit
the green. And if we keep if

596
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:57,880
we keep putting hazards uh in penal
areas in front of greens, in the

597
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:02,920
form of hazards and and and lakes
and creeks and streams, it tends to

598
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:08,199
slow the game down even more.
And if these hazards aren't more defined,

599
00:51:08,679 --> 00:51:13,719
then they'll be poking around in there
because you know what their bet is as

600
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,519
much as the golf ball cost.
You know, you don't like losing golf

601
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:22,760
balls. We don't like losing golf
balls. It slows down play. So

602
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,840
if you're going to have if you're
going to have a penal area, a

603
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:30,880
penalty area, then you know it's
it's better for it to be defined as

604
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,519
you're either in the hazard or you're
out of the hazard, either in the

605
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,119
penalty area or you're out of the
penalty area. So those are ways that

606
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:44,679
can that can help and I think
we're all about trying to speed up the

607
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,199
game. So those are just a
couple of items that come to mind.

608
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:54,239
As to you. Now, I've
noticed that thick rough slows things down because

609
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,880
spend a lot of time looking for
your ball if you're not familiar with the

610
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,719
course or or being in that area. Lots of you know, hitting the

611
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:07,400
trees, hitting the ball out of
bounds. And sometimes I wish marshals would

612
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,480
instead of just coming to tell us
to pick up our pace and play,

613
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:15,960
I wish they would stay out near
the fairway and when the ball comes down,

614
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,760
stick a little flag. If you
see the ball going over to the

615
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,920
road, stick a little flag,
stick something so you see where it is.

616
00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:24,760
You're the marshal. That's your job
to pick up the pace of play.

617
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,000
Help us out right. If you
notice that this group is slow,

618
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,440
keep an eye on them and see
how many balls they're hitting, you know,

619
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:35,320
to the right of the left or
in the deep rough and stuff and

620
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,159
spending time looking for it. You
mean, you don't have a gallery following

621
00:52:38,199 --> 00:52:45,480
you when you play that can point
that out. Oh that's the problem exactly.

622
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,840
Now that's a good point. Let
me tell you, dick rough is

623
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:55,039
a big detriment. That's another great
point, Fred. Nobody liked looking for

624
00:52:55,119 --> 00:53:00,519
golf balls, Nobody liked losing golf
balls. And it truly, truly,

625
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:04,840
truly slows down play. You know, if you have a specific event,

626
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:09,320
you can gear up if you need
to strengthen the golf course or challenge it

627
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:15,199
a little bit more and grow the
rope rough up for an upcoming event.

628
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:20,079
But for normal play, I'm one
hundred percent with you. I have a

629
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:23,079
lot of I have clients that say, you know, keep the rough up.

630
00:53:23,079 --> 00:53:28,679
We like the rough up, and
frankly, it's just slowing down play

631
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,599
and losing golf balls. And uh
it's it's very challenging and very difficult.

632
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,760
I'd love to have we we have. We have built a number of golf

633
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,559
courses where we have no rough and
frankly, it can play just as hard

634
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,960
because nothing is there to stop the
ball from running into more trouble. So

635
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:52,480
you know, there's a there's another
side to to that. Uh And,

636
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,320
and it just goes back to who
we building the golf course for, who's

637
00:53:55,360 --> 00:54:00,559
playing the golf course on a day
to day basis. But certainly I think

638
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:06,519
less rough is better. Uh And
And if you have an upcoming event that

639
00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:10,599
that that you want to showcase and
strengthen the the challenge, then you can

640
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:15,360
grow the rough up a little bit
more. Okay, I didn't plan it,

641
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:20,159
but I'm gonna take one more break
because there's still another question I have

642
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,159
about architecture, and then I want
to talk about a topic that's close to

643
00:54:23,199 --> 00:54:32,480
your heart, and we'll do that
right after this. I'm curious to know

644
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:40,639
how you approach the difference between designing
for or redesigning for a private course Immuni

645
00:54:42,199 --> 00:54:45,000
and a resort course. Is there
a difference? Yeah, I think there.

646
00:54:45,159 --> 00:54:49,880
I think there is. Obviously on
a resort golf course, you're you're

647
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:55,239
you're you're probably taking your wife or
your family and on a vacation or some

648
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:04,079
special occasion or some destination, and
resort golf courses or tend to be more

649
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,440
can be more memorable, uh if
there if they have a setting of being

650
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:14,159
close to the ocean or or or
or some or some feature that uh is

651
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:20,239
unlike where you might be at your
home golf course. So resort golf courses

652
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:27,639
can can sometimes be a little more
dramatic and in their design and their layout

653
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:35,079
and their features. You have some
breathtaking opportunities to to see some vistas uh

654
00:55:35,159 --> 00:55:40,440
throughout the property. So yeah,
I think I think resort golf courses probably

655
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:45,840
do need to have a little element
of uh of intrigue. That is,

656
00:55:45,199 --> 00:55:50,239
you know, take advantage of maybe
the location of the site and blend in

657
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:55,599
with the with the resort amenities that
you have. Municipal golf courses obviously,

658
00:55:57,199 --> 00:56:02,199
or more about playing higher volume play
a number of players. You'll see more

659
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:07,280
rounds being played typically on some of
the municipal golf courses, and frankly,

660
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:13,199
the better condition they're in, the
more they're going to get played, and

661
00:56:13,519 --> 00:56:16,039
a lot of them are designed for
speed of play I think would help.

662
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:22,159
And then you know, with the
diverse memberships that we have today, I

663
00:56:22,199 --> 00:56:27,599
mean, we're all trying to build
the best golf course, and we're trying

664
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:30,559
to we're trying to build a golf
course that not only photographs well, because

665
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:38,199
that translates into into people accepting and
courses getting recognized a little bit more.

666
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:44,760
But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to me if

667
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:49,519
it's a resort or if it's some
municipal golf course, public golf course,

668
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,280
or private golf course. We're trying
to build the best golf holes. I

669
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,599
don't want to leave a golf hole
until I feel like, you know what

670
00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:01,079
this this is, this is what
we really want. Uh and and then

671
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:08,719
and then the next thing that really
coincides with with designing any golf course is

672
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:15,000
the level of maintenance associated with it. The better the maintenance of a golf

673
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,760
course, the better it's going to
be accepted, the more recognition it's going

674
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:24,559
to get. Design complements maintenance.
Maintenance complements design. The more you put

675
00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:29,920
those two together at a high level
really elevates your golf course. And it

676
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:34,159
doesn't really matter where you go.
There's a golf course in Houston that that

677
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,440
Tom Doak build is a municipal golf
course. It hosts and challenges the best

678
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:44,480
players with a PGA Tour. I
have golf courses that have a membership that

679
00:57:44,599 --> 00:57:51,559
host PGA Tour events. TPC Summerland
River Highlands up in Connecticut. The Tournament

680
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:58,079
Players Club at Sawgrass is a resort
and it hosts the Players Championship on an

681
00:57:58,079 --> 00:58:05,199
annual basis, and and and they're
all great golf courses and and but they're

682
00:58:05,239 --> 00:58:09,800
only being played for a tournament one
week a year. Fuzzy Zeller used to

683
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:15,280
say, we're on scholarship. We
show up once a week, I mean

684
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:20,079
once a year for one week,
and we're on scholarship. We don't pay,

685
00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:25,440
you know, we're just we're just
there playing golf. So, uh,

686
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:30,039
those other fifty one weeks, you
know, somebody's playing that golf course

687
00:58:30,159 --> 00:58:36,320
and somebody's paying for that golf course. So you know, the site makes

688
00:58:36,639 --> 00:58:42,119
makes the difference so often, and
uh, you know a lot of these

689
00:58:42,159 --> 00:58:46,679
resort golf courses that you go to
are on are on some in some prime

690
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:53,920
locations with some tremendous views and vistas, whether it be on the ocean or

691
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:59,320
in the mountains, et cetera.
But at the end of the day,

692
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,760
our charge is to build as good
a golf hole and golf course as we

693
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,960
can and try to find a commensurate
level of maintenance as high as it can

694
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:14,679
be to showcase the golf course.
So I mean, uh, you know,

695
00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:19,320
we're all, we're all we're all
trying to achieve the same end result

696
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,599
in just building the best golf course
we can. Yeah, I guess that

697
00:59:22,599 --> 00:59:29,559
should have been a fourth category.
You know, Muni's Country Club resort places

698
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:35,119
that the tour is coming. I
guess that would that would also be included

699
00:59:35,119 --> 00:59:43,360
in that conversation. You and your
wife started a nonprofit. I'd love to

700
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:49,639
talk to you about it. We
have a nonprofit foundation called hell h E

701
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:57,360
a l Helping Enrich Autistic Lives and
we're coming up on our twentieth year and

702
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,440
we have an annual we have an
annual gala, and we have an annual

703
01:00:00,519 --> 01:00:09,360
golf tournament called Bobby Wee Golf Gig
and we serve a five county area in

704
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,440
North Florida. We live in North
Florida. We live in Pontimeter Beach,

705
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:20,880
and we have a profoundly autistic daughter
who is now twenty five years old,

706
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:27,719
and it's been it's been a massive
challenge for my wife, Leslie, and

707
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:32,280
myself and we have three daughters.
Hayley is our oldest, Carly and Lanier's

708
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:38,840
our youngest, and she is nonverbal, profoundly autistic, and we have struggled

709
01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:47,119
mightily. It was very private for
so long, but starting a foundation twenty

710
01:00:47,199 --> 01:00:54,599
years ago it allowed us to assist
other families that were struggling like we were

711
01:00:54,639 --> 01:01:01,119
struggling. And the amount of gratification
that it has returned and given back to

712
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:07,280
us has really made our family stronger. Uh. It made me, It

713
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,400
made me see a side of my
wife that I didn't even know existed.

714
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:16,559
My daughters are stronger today. We
we we protected them mightily during the early

715
01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:20,960
years because we didn't know what autism
was. We didn't know, we didn't

716
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,840
know what we had here that we
were dealing with. And as much as

717
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:28,920
we were struggling, we knew that
so many other families were struggling. And

718
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:34,079
I dare say there's probably not a
family in the country today that doesn't have

719
01:01:35,039 --> 01:01:39,880
someone within their family or extended family
that has been touched by autism. The

720
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:45,519
numbers are staggering today. So UH, it's it's been a it's been a

721
01:01:45,519 --> 01:01:52,679
great cause for us. We Uh
we write grants to schools. We have

722
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:58,519
seventeen summer camps in the summertime for
these for these children and young adults.

723
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,159
UH. To give these family is
a break, you know, because it's

724
01:02:01,199 --> 01:02:07,199
you know, it's so expensive uh
to to treat and and and at one

725
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:14,000
time I had six people on my
payroll occupational therapist, speech therapists, UH,

726
01:02:14,119 --> 01:02:19,320
doctors and and just help and it
was just overwhelming. Simply overwhelming.

727
01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:23,239
The one thing I learned as a
parent, there is no end to what

728
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:29,159
you will do for your child in
need. There's no question you will go.

729
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,159
You will go to the earth's end
to try to help your child and

730
01:02:32,199 --> 01:02:37,880
your children, uh to get better. And and and that's what that's what

731
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,480
we have, we have done and
we continue to be involved in that.

732
01:02:40,599 --> 01:02:47,599
So our foundation is is a way
to give back uh to our community.

733
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,960
And UH you can go online,
just go on line to h e A

734
01:02:52,199 --> 01:02:58,960
L Helping enrich Autistic Lives and UH
you can learn a little bit more about

735
01:02:59,239 --> 01:03:02,440
what we do. And and it's
aside you know, well, yeah,

736
01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:08,840
golf course design is my profession,
but you know, being involved in what

737
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:14,760
we what we do with our foundation
and with our family is is you know,

738
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:19,599
just trumps everything. Yeah, and
you probably learned a lot about yourself

739
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,760
and like you said, your wife
and your children because of the gift that

740
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:29,760
Lanier gives you. Yes, no
question about it. She has changed our

741
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,920
lives and she has changed and helped
change so many others. We she can

742
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:37,280
now type, she can now type
on an ipo. We give iPads to

743
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:44,800
a lot of schools and it gives
them a voice, and when our daughter

744
01:03:45,559 --> 01:03:53,360
started typing, it took me two
years to really recite what she had said

745
01:03:53,719 --> 01:03:59,440
initially when she started typing. And
as a result, we determine that she

746
01:03:59,559 --> 01:04:04,599
is genius, brilliant, smart,
and we didn't know that until she started

747
01:04:04,599 --> 01:04:11,880
communicating. It's called facilitative facilitative communication. And she can she types one letter

748
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:16,000
out of time, one letter turns
into one sentence, one sentence turns into

749
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:20,440
a paragraph, and she has a
lot to say, and what she says

750
01:04:20,639 --> 01:04:27,400
is incredibly profound, and you know, it's given her a voice, and

751
01:04:27,719 --> 01:04:30,400
that's what a lot of Wow,
that's what a lot of these children need,

752
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:34,480
is a voice, right, so
you can know what what they're thinking

753
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:40,440
and give them an opportunity to communicate
with you, because they do have a

754
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,000
lot to say. No question,
no question, and thanks and thanks for

755
01:04:44,039 --> 01:04:46,400
asking. By the way, it's
uh, it's very close and bee to

756
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:54,920
to to my family and to everyone
that's around us. Absolutely absolutely, and

757
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,519
it's you know, of all the
contributions you've made to the golf industry,

758
01:04:59,239 --> 01:05:02,239
as significant and as they are,
congratulations, this is still a lot more

759
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,800
important pales in comparison. Sometimes shouting
up, yeah, yeah, it's like

760
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:11,400
puts things in perspective for you.
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt.

761
01:05:12,119 --> 01:05:15,639
Well, thank you for that work
for you and Leslie, I really I

762
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:20,559
admire your persistence and what you're doing
for your community. Thank you, Thank

763
01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:26,440
you, appreciate it, and thank
you for your time. And I'm going

764
01:05:26,519 --> 01:05:30,079
to take you up on bringing you
back because we're just having too much fun

765
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:35,800
talking golf call golf design and how
the amateur golfer can get better, become

766
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,960
a smarter golfer. Yes, it's
endless, it's endless. I mean we're

767
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:45,920
all we're all chasing the same dream
in pursuit of being better, getting better

768
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:51,880
and uncovering whatever little tips we can
to get better. And I just love

769
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:59,119
all things golf. A shout out
to Wes Smith, our latest Golf Smarter

770
01:05:59,159 --> 01:06:02,840
Ambassador who play at the Wilson Course
at Griffith Park in Los Angeles. Wess,

771
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,719
I was really hoping to play with
you while I'm in LA which I

772
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:12,920
am right now, but Joanne and
I are babysitting our grandchildren for two weeks

773
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:17,880
and there's no childcare help in place
these days, so we're on duty full

774
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:24,920
time. So as far as our
drive down here, I was planning on

775
01:06:25,199 --> 01:06:29,400
bringing my clubs, but once I
realized that both kids are in daycare for

776
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,960
a short time each day, golf
got pushed to the side. So to

777
01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:36,840
all those young moms and dads who
love to play golf but have to give

778
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:42,400
it up when you have small children, I get it, but don't despair.

779
01:06:42,559 --> 01:06:46,199
They grow up and as I've heard
countless times from our Golf Smarter community,

780
01:06:46,639 --> 01:06:51,360
golf can return to your life.
I promise, so, Wes,

781
01:06:51,679 --> 01:06:56,159
I really hope we stay in touch
because I've never played at Griffith Park and

782
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,800
hope that we can do it together
in the near future. Now, Wes

783
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,960
to receive Tony Manzoni's video of the
Lost Fundamental, which is you can tell

784
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:08,880
each week. There are two other
great gifts that you can get for free,

785
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:14,440
but Tony Manzoni's video seems to be
the hands down favorite. And did

786
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:19,119
I mention that in going through our
list of past episodes preparing Golf Smarter Mulligans,

787
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:26,039
I've found an episode with Tony that
we've never replayed. Well, I've

788
01:07:26,039 --> 01:07:30,599
decided to extend our run of Manzoni
episodes this coming spring by an additional week,

789
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,880
so please keep your ears open for
that in March and April of twenty

790
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:40,119
twenty four. So I ask you
please do what Wes did and become a

791
01:07:40,159 --> 01:07:45,400
Golf Smarter Ambassador so that you can
receive a free gift of your choice just

792
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:49,039
for telling us where you're from and
where you play. Choices include Tony Manzoni's

793
01:07:49,119 --> 01:07:55,400
video, a glove and glove storage
compartment from redroostergolf dot com, and a

794
01:07:55,559 --> 01:08:00,480
sleeve of Odin what oh, I'm
sorry, a box that's a Odin X

795
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:04,360
one balls with the Golf Smarter logo. All you need to do to get

796
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:10,239
your free gift is write to me
directly and I'll send you some simple instructions

797
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:14,800
on how to record an episode opening
that takes less than one minute. Check

798
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,960
out today's show notes to find links
about each gift you have to choose from,

799
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:24,239
and to see and hear the most
compelling short nuggets of our podcast interviews,

800
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:29,000
including this one with Bobby Weed.
Now for both Golf Smarter and Golf

801
01:08:29,039 --> 01:08:33,279
Smarter Mulligans, please follow us on
social at golf Smarter, on YouTube,

802
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:39,960
TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and what's formerly known as Twitter x

803
01:08:40,399 --> 01:08:45,560
and you'll get our ongoing posts of
videos and articles five times every week.

804
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:48,640
If you have any questions, come
in suggestions for upcoming episodes, or want

805
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:53,359
to join our list of golf Smarter
Ambassadors who do receive a free gift.

806
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:58,760
Write to golf Smarter Podcast at gmail
dot com or click on the Hey Fred

807
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:03,199
button when you visit golfsmarter dot com