1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,360 Welcome to the Teachers Need Teachers Podcasts, the podcast for teachers who don't want 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,560 to just survive teaching, but actually thrive. I'm Kim Laprie. If you 3 00:00:08,599 --> 00:00:13,720 were new, I am eager to discuss today's episode with you because it's one 4 00:00:13,759 --> 00:00:19,679 that was actually inspired by a question from a longtime listener. And I love 5 00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:25,359 getting messages from you guys. And this is from Derek. Let's just imagine 6 00:00:25,399 --> 00:00:32,240 this scenario. Imagine a teacher from Kansas who's passionate about his work being let 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:39,439 go from his job because of some controversial tiktoks. These TikTok videos raise objections 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:44,399 from the board, and in one video, he made some lighthearted jokes about 9 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,240 farting in his classroom and they were humorous to him and to his students. 10 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,840 But I didn't start there. Actually, it escalated when it was discovered that 11 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,840 some of these videos were actually filmed in his classroom, and that was actually 12 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,840 something that the board used in their case against him. Now, the school 13 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:11,480 district has a policy about social media and maintaining professionalism and responsibility on platforms such 14 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:17,040 as TikTok, so even on personal platforms, they stress that anything that's said 15 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,879 online on a teacher's account should be something that they would say in a public 16 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:25,239 meeting or to the media representing the school district. As a result, the 17 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,359 teacher had to make a difficult choice. He had to either take down the 18 00:01:27,439 --> 00:01:33,200 videos or resign, and because he wanted to hold true to his principles, 19 00:01:33,599 --> 00:01:38,040 it ultimately led to his termination. So this story is a stark reminder that 20 00:01:38,239 --> 00:01:41,560 a lot of the things that we do outside of the classroom can actually have 21 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:47,480 ramifications on our jobs. But it also makes me wonder what are the ethical 22 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,480 and legal boundaries for teachers and how do they vary from state to state? 23 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,840 Can teachers truly separate their professional lives from their personal lives in this profession? 24 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,120 And what are the potential consequences for our actions outside of work. Now, 25 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:05,760 it goes without saying that we are entitled to our personal and private lives. 26 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Teaching should not encroach on that because that's basically our time outside of school. 27 00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:14,400 We are off duty, and honestly, we should be able to do what 28 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,800 we want to do because it's a free world, and just like any profession, 29 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:23,199 we have the right to engage in any lawful or frankly unlawful activities When 30 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:28,199 we're off duty. But the thing is, some people see us as role 31 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,400 models because of how impressionable our students are than the influence that we have, 32 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:38,759 and so they think that that influence and maybe the morality of being a teacher 33 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,879 should translate outside of the classroom as well. And because of this, some 34 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,240 people do view our behaviors outside of the classroom as something that they can scrutinize 35 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,520 in, something that can be held under a microscope, and we can be 36 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:58,199 fired for things that maybe the community and society don't necessarily approve of. But 37 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:02,560 I definitely think that what we do outside of the classroom should be protected because 38 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,439 it is our lives to a certain extent. Though, so I'm going to 39 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:13,039 dive into some of that gray area because let's be real, there are things 40 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,039 that if we do them outside of the classroom, we probably shouldn't be allowed 41 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:21,439 to teach. So let's talk about legal considerations. Now. Let me promise 42 00:03:21,479 --> 00:03:23,840 this by saying that I am not a lawyer, I am not a legal 43 00:03:23,879 --> 00:03:28,800 expert, and what I know is based on what's available on the internet, 44 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,759 what is googleable. So don't come back at me and say you said I 45 00:03:31,759 --> 00:03:35,759 can get fired for this, But I wasn't, or you said that I 46 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,360 cannot get fired for this, and I was, because really it varies i 47 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,960 state to state and district by district, so let's start there. So in 48 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,879 general, pretty much most states are at wal states, which means that you 49 00:03:47,919 --> 00:03:53,759 can be fired for any reason as long as your employer is not discriminating against 50 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:59,240 you, retaliating for being a whistleblower, or engaging in other protected activities like 51 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,719 being part of a union. But unless it's illegal, they do have the 52 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,120 right to fire you for whatever reason. I hate to say that, and 53 00:04:05,159 --> 00:04:10,319 some of you have experiences too. If you saw my video about non renewal 54 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,599 notices, they could come up with whatever reason they want to not running your 55 00:04:14,599 --> 00:04:17,000 contract and not have you come back. So what are some things that you 56 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:21,319 can get fired for as a teacher? Public intoxication where you're drinking to the 57 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,439 point that it's leading to fights, you're like passed out in public. That 58 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,360 can get you firing. But this isn't the same as like going and having 59 00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:33,879 some beers with your friends or going to a winery. That is acceptable, 60 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,079 but when you take it to an extreme and you're drawing attention to yourself and 61 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,439 getting arrested for it, that could be grounds for letting you go. But 62 00:04:41,519 --> 00:04:45,959 the laws vary from state to state in terms of what is and isn't protected. 63 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,639 Well. California has some of the strictest laws for firing employees at bill 64 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:57,279 Employers cannot fire employees for drinking in public unless drinking in public can show that 65 00:04:57,319 --> 00:05:01,839 it had a negative impact on the employees' performance. That employers are more likely 66 00:05:01,959 --> 00:05:08,680 to fire employees if it's disruptive in the workplace or damaging to the reputation of 67 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,720 that particular employer or company. I mean, some of it's really obvious. 68 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,800 You might have heard recently of a third grade teacher who came to school intoxicated, 69 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,680 and of course that teacher was fired, because let's be real, they 70 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:27,800 should be fired for that. Also posting inappropriate material on social media, California 71 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,240 protects employees from being fired for their social media posts. There are a few 72 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:36,120 other states that are also in that realm where employees are really protected for things 73 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:41,959 that they do during their personal time, but in most states, employers can 74 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,560 fire employees for what they put on social media. Kind of shocking, and 75 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:49,519 again it's because most states are at will states, and so whatever reason they 76 00:05:49,519 --> 00:05:54,360 can come up with, or whatever policies they have, they have the right 77 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:58,560 to establish those or use those as reasons to fire you. So if you 78 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,199 have social media posts that maybe are criticizing the district or your administrator or something 79 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,360 like that, apparently that could be grounds for letting you go. In this 80 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,439 case, what I would do is read up on the policies that your district 81 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:15,480 has. So your district may have a policy or maybe it's just sort of 82 00:06:15,519 --> 00:06:19,120 like a blanket policy about whatever you say or do in public, but I 83 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:25,319 would definitely look up on that because you just never know engaging in illegal activities. 84 00:06:25,399 --> 00:06:29,680 If you're convicted of a serious or violent felony, you're going to be 85 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,160 out of a teaching job. And after doing some research, I realized that 86 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,360 there are actually a lot of factors that play into whether or not you would 87 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:42,560 get fired for doing something illegal, and these activities would definitely affect your ability 88 00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:46,600 to get another job, because as a teacher, we have to disclose if 89 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,040 we've ever been convicted of a crime, even if it's something like a d 90 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,040 line. So that's something to take into consideration if you're going to be doing 91 00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:58,160 something that's not on the up and up another thing that you can get fired 92 00:06:58,199 --> 00:07:02,800 for. Obviously having a physical or romantic relationship with a student. I mean 93 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:10,199 enough said, also making discriminatory or offensive statements. Again, this should be 94 00:07:10,279 --> 00:07:14,920 self explanatory, and let's not get caught up in the whole free speech First 95 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,199 Amendment deal because in many districts and in the changing political and educational landscape, 96 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:25,439 it really doesn't take much to offend someone, So you just definitely want to 97 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,879 steer clear of making any kind of comments that could be perceived as offensive. 98 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,800 It kind of sucks because we never really know if something that we say in 99 00:07:33,839 --> 00:07:39,199 our classroom is going to set someone off or make a student run home and 100 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,519 tell their parents, And it's really hard to feel like we can do our 101 00:07:43,639 --> 00:07:46,279 jobs to the best of our abilities, but still we're being looked at under 102 00:07:46,279 --> 00:07:50,399 a microscope. So this made me wonder, what is that line that you 103 00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:55,519 can toe in terms of something that you do during your personal times. For 104 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,439 example, if I live in California and I want to go buy marijuana, 105 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,959 I get fired for that gnome because it's legal. But if you are out 106 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,759 and about smoking marijuana and getting high somewhere, then that could be a reason 107 00:08:07,959 --> 00:08:13,399 why your employer fires you because you're doing that in public. My recommendations, 108 00:08:13,439 --> 00:08:18,199 so first, when you're in public, you definitely want to exercise discretion. 109 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,920 So this doesn't mean that you can't go out and drink with your friends and 110 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,920 your family, and that you can't smoke marijuana if it's legal in your state. 111 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,159 But what it does mean is to just be mindful when you're in public. 112 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:35,519 So you definitely don't want to get hammered because that could be seen as 113 00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:39,480 questionable. And you want to think about the conversations that you're having with other 114 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:45,919 teachers, especially you don't want to be talking about a particular student or a 115 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:52,039 parent or a colleague, administrator district. You don't want to be naming names 116 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,360 in public because that could get back to you and buy chewing the butt. 117 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,360 And also be mindful of what you post on social media. If you post 118 00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:05,840 things that could in any way be perceived as questionable, then you want to 119 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:09,799 put your accounts in lock down and have them be private. And I don't 120 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,120 care what you post, honestly, I'm not going to judge those, but 121 00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:16,960 we can no longer use the excuse I didn't know to justify the things that 122 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,440 we put on social media. It's out there, it's public, and a 123 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,279 lot of employers even look at your social media account before even deciding whether or 124 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,240 not they want to hire you. So just really be mindful about And that's 125 00:09:30,279 --> 00:09:33,559 something that I think about too, and why I honestly don't post a lot 126 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,519 on social media. It's not that I'm doing anything that would be questionable, 127 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,200 but I just tend to be private and I don't want a lot of people 128 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,639 to know too much about me, because not only are those of you that 129 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,159 are listening or watching my YouTube videos, I'm sure that you want to connect 130 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,480 with me, but so do my students and their parents, because a lot 131 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:58,200 of them have found me online, or they've found me with my YouTube channel, 132 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,600 or they google me and they find pictures of me. I'm fairly googleable, 133 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,200 so I try to curate what I do put out on social media and 134 00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:11,440 on the internet so that what they find is not questionable. I'd also avoid 135 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,840 illegal activities. I mean, it's your life. Just know that if you 136 00:10:15,879 --> 00:10:18,879 do decide to do something illegal, it could definitely catch up with you, 137 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,600 whether it's something that gets you fired or something that prevents you from future employment, 138 00:10:24,759 --> 00:10:28,759 not just teaching, just future employment. In general, just think twice 139 00:10:28,799 --> 00:10:31,480 about that. I'm not saying that you have to be goody goody and that 140 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:37,159 you have to constantly obey the law, but just know that when you're making 141 00:10:37,159 --> 00:10:41,120 those decisions that again we're not saying I didn't know that we are doing them 142 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,440 knowing full well as adults that it could lead to consequences. I would also 143 00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:50,879 learn about your district's policies, whether it's conduct in public or social media. 144 00:10:50,039 --> 00:10:54,639 Knowledge is power, and it can prevent you from doing something that will later 145 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:58,879 be regrettable. There are some districts where it's impossible to fire a teacher. 146 00:11:00,039 --> 00:11:03,080 It seems like teachers get away with coming to school drunk or they do things 147 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,399 that in a normal workplace they would have been fired for. But at the 148 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:11,879 same time, teachers are also being let go for some of the stupidest things. 149 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:16,480 So, unless you have the power of tenure and you're in a district 150 00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:20,279 with a strong union, you definitely want to take the time to look up 151 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,000 the district's policies, be in the no so that you're not sidelined if you 152 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,720 do something now someone's coming after you for it. Now. I'm not telling 153 00:11:26,759 --> 00:11:31,799 you guys that you need to be a saint because we're humans. There's good 154 00:11:31,799 --> 00:11:35,120 people in all professions, and then there's just some rotten people everywhere too. 155 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,799 I don't think that we should be expected to be the moral compass for students. 156 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,080 In fact, many parents would prefer that we not be the moral compass 157 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,559 and that we just stick to teaching the content, but just use common sense 158 00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:50,279 in terms of the things that you do inside and outside of the classroom. 159 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,879 Because, as weird as it might sound, you are somewhat of a mini 160 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,440 celebrity because you encounter so many students in your life. I have one hundred 161 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,000 and semi students every year for the past twenty two years. You do the 162 00:12:03,039 --> 00:12:07,399 math on that. That's how many students and their families know who I am 163 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,639 and who recognize me when I'm out and about. It doesn't mean that I 164 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,399 don't get to be who I want to be and who I am, but 165 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,120 it does mean that I am thoughtful about what I put out there and how 166 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,799 I am when I'm in public, and it's just something that I know that 167 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,440 I kind of signed up for. So bottom line, yes, of your 168 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,799 lives how you want to, but at the same time, do it with 169 00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:31,519 the knowledge of the possible consequences, and it's up to you whether or not 170 00:12:31,759 --> 00:12:37,559 it's worth it, whether or not those consequences are worth the actions. And 171 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,480 if living this way in terms of having to censor the things that you do 172 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,000 and say, doesn't align with your values, just know that these laws don't 173 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:50,320 apply just to teaching. A lot of employers also have these types of policies, 174 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,519 and so you're not necessarily going to be in the clear if you quit 175 00:12:54,639 --> 00:13:00,120 teaching. I mean, if you think about it, when companies get a 176 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:05,279 celebrity to represent them, like in a commercial or on an advertisement, if 177 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:09,519 that celebrity does or says something that goes against the values of that company, 178 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,799 a lot of times that celebrity is let go. So it's not just teachers 179 00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:18,399 that have to worry about what they say and how they act. It's kind 180 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,440 of everybody, and there could be repercussions no matter what job you have. 181 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,159 So thanks for hanging out with me today, you guys. I hope that 182 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,480 this was helpful for you. I'd love to hear your take on this and 183 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,960 what you think, and maybe if you have any horror stories or any stories 184 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,159 about things that have happened to you or your colleagues. Because of this, 185 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,320 please let me know. You can DM me at Kim Laprie on Instagram or 186 00:13:41,399 --> 00:13:45,639 you can email me at kimat teachersnadteachers dot com. Thanks for hanging out with 187 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:46,679 me you guys today and I will see you next time.