Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host,
Alejandro Rojas. I am joining you from my deathbed, just kidding, and
I am here with Martin hebe Gb Willis. Yeah, so I'm the real
heb GB. I guess, I guess, And from what you told me
earlier, that's a bad thing. So earlier for the listeners, you know,
Martin said, I heard you had the hebgb's. I'm not sure where
he heard that. He can let us know, but I told him,
no, it was actually the flu, because I don't know that the hebgb's
it's a real thing besides you, your real thing. Well, you know,
I think the hebgb's is is. I thought it was like something,
you know, microscopic, like you got the hebgb's and so you got it
came down with the flu. It could be there could be some quantum level,
the quantum HEBGB that manipulates your cells and your body creating viruses just like
a little bastard and you're yeah, so that could be the whole root of
sickness. So if you can, you know, do quantum surgery, because
it's fun to use the term quantum and stuff that you don't know what it
is to just say it's quantum, you know. Yeah, there's nobody can
prove you otherwise, so they can't see it, they can't prove it.
Yeah, so you could be onto something. What do I know? That's
right? Wow? Either way, it was cute. It was a cute
little EBGB thing you were doing there. All right, Hey, who's your
guest today? Hey, great question. My guest today is Cheryl Costa.
So yeah, she's got it, Yeah, from New York. So she's
got a new book out. Of course, we're posting in our headline to
one of her stories at least a week because she writes for the Syracuse New
Times about UFOs. So those of you who have been following her postings are
aware that she came out with a new book. And it's called The UFO
Sightings Desk Reference United States of America two thousand and one to twenty fifteen.
That may sound extremely boring, and if you look at the cover, it's
black and white, looks like a drawing, an old drawing of a UFO.
And I'm sure that may appear as boring to some, but to weirdos
UFO data Weirdos like me there's not much more exciting. I mean, so
she's going over the numbers, and I'm a numbers guy. Maybe it comes
from my background in the corporate world, where it's numbers, numbers, numbers,
And I like numbers because even in today's world, you know, when
I'm doing the website and just so open minds and the Congress can exist,
you know, we've got to follow the numbers and what's going on with all
the numbers everywhere. So I love numbers, and I love UFO numbers.
So I'm very excited about her book talking about sightings you know, all around
the United States from twenty one to twenty twenty fifteen, What sightings where when?
That sort of stuff. So wow, that sounds like it would take
a lot of research to do something like that exactly. And wait a minute,
was that just to did I just hear a heb GB? Yeah,
you know, I didn't. We didn't even finish our HEBGB conversation. But
to talk about her, if that's what we'll be talking about, how long
it took her to put together all of this data and some of the exciting
data she's found. And there's been a ton of news stories about her book
in particular, it's about California. I don't know. I think we've talked
about this in the headlines. You can find a bunch of stories about her
having California at the top of UFO sightings, and we talked about that in
detail in our interview here. Yeah. Well, you know, it is
the number one state for sure for sightings, according to her information. Yeah,
where I had my sighting too, where you had your sighting. Yes,
wow, yeah, that's fair. I think some people suspect that Californians
are at least in part extraterrestrial. I could, having living having lived there
for a total of about ten years or so, nine years one time,
one year or another time, I suspected that all along actually really interesting.
Well, I wouldn't much prefer to be around extraterrestrials, then, dare I
say I'm going there? Then the people in Arizona there are as a large
amount of people of a particular political persuasion that is not my own, and
I'd rather be with the aliens. But anyway, you went there, Yeah,
okay, But yeah, so that's what we'll be talking about in just
a minute. Before that, I just wanted to say I'm not going to
apologize for having the hebgb's, as Martin and would put it, But I
did have a flu last week, and so I was out and I have
not been hit with a flu, a full on flu for probably decades,
and yeah, for a very long time. Now I got I felt something
coming on that was probably the flu in the past. In fact, once
a year maybe I feel that way, and I'll usually rest, and usually
an evening of resting or maybe even a day of resting gets rid of it.
And that's the most I've had it, so I haven't had it full
on, but yeah, I got it full on, and it might be
that I'm thinking I need to get the shot, because I hear that even
if you catch the flu, if you get the flu shot, it's less
severe. So yeah, maybe I'm just getting old enough where you know,
the hebgb's are just able to get past my defenses. That's what it is,
my aging defenses. That's right. They quantumly sneak past. Oh that's
right, they got that quantum crap, those little sunset so so, but
I'm luckily I'm back and we've got a show right when I'm back, So
people ought to be happy so you know, but you know, what can
you do? But beyond that, I'm gonna mute when I have to cough
here. But that I guess. Let's talk some UFO news, all right,
Well, speaking of California, Well, I think I'm going to talk
about this one here, and this was back in I think it was February
ninth, twenty seventeen. And this is over Eureka, California, which is
Humboldt County, which was home of the marijuana growers from way back when.
I'm not sure if that's really going on up there is that where you remember,
that's where you used to get your stuff back there? Oh I never
partaked, I only I never inhaled. Yeah, okay, good right,
because anyway, so a rectangler shape UFO flew over this town. According to
this Eureka witness, he heard a loud jet like sound and you know,
which made him come outside and he looked up and he saw this like a
square type rectangular UFO with a bunch of lights on it, and he did
some sketches. It kind of looks like Swiss cheese or something. But you
can see the sketches that he did on on the article. And so he
couldn't figure out what this thing was. And he thought at first it was
like a huge military cargo jet or something, but it just couldn't be,
you know, from what he is describing. And he said to his wife,
what is that? And she looked to and you know, he told
her to go hurry and grab her binoculars, and and then this thing it
starts speeding up, I guess, and it looked further away, and he
says it was very large and square, and possibly the shape of a home
plate object. I wouldn't really call that square rectangular. He's in a homeplate
like a diamond shape. Yeah, yeah, kind of. Yeah. Yeah,
so we're talking almost maybe do we dare say another triangle UFO. Perhaps
although those pictures are square, they are maybe he doesn't really know what a
home plate looks like. Yeah, it could be that geometry is not his
strong suit. Yeah. Well I bunked flyology too, so I'm sure he
did well. Anyway, So the lights, he thought they were sort of
where the tail of a plane would be. You know, it's not really
making sense his report totally, because you know, if this thing was square,
I don't know why he think it would look like a plane or maybe
a baseball diamond or whatever. But anyway, he saw something and he reported
it and to move on, and we don't have a case number. This
was posted by Roger Marsh on your website. Eureka is actually a really beautiful
area in California. It's it's really nice. It's pretty far north of San
Francisco, but it's really a beautiful area. I'm pretty sure. I go
ahead. I'm sorry, No, no, really, I just think again.
I understand why there's a lot of sightings in California because there's so many
days of beautiful blue scot without any clouds, So I get it. Why
why it happens they are all the sightings? Yeah, and that's really all
I got. I was going to say, that's where the Bigfoot sightings first
got popularized, like the betting Hill and Barney Cash of Bigfoot happened in Eureka.
Where is it? Yeah? Did you know that? No? Yeah,
So, like there was this I think they were, if I remember
correctly, they were lumberjacks and they were out there and there their stuff was
being thrown around, their equipment broken, stuff like that, and they found
a print and of what they they coined Bigfoot, and you know, they
showed the news and it's a famous picture of the guy holding up the the
the Humboldt County Times. I think the paper is wow. I can't believe
I can remember all this stuff. And he's holding up the print of the
Bigfoot, the cast of the foot, and uh, that made Bigfoot famous.
All started out prior to the Patterson. Oh yeah, definitely, wow,
that prior to Patterson. Yeah, yeah, you have to look that
up. Amazing. So a little bit of Bigfoot history there too. You
know what also's really exciting news? What's that? Was that the Open Minds?
Uh and they don't like it when you call him the open Minds,
but that Open Minds website posted an exclusive video of five Simington. Did you
watch that? I did watch that? Isn't that interesting? Yeah? I
you know, I first saw this, this video of five Simington, So
I should tell people what it is. Essentially, James Fox is the guy,
well you guys have heard you guys heard me interview hopefully years ago James
Fox about all of this. But James Fox, the guy who does documentaries.
He did I know what I saw and out a little Blue some of
the best UFO documentaries. Well, when he was doing the Phoenix Sights,
he interviewed five Simington and some of the Phoenix Sights witnesses. Simington, uh.
He then played you know the witnesses or Simonton's some audio of one of
the witnesses and Simington said, well, you know I saw that thing too,
and it was huge, and he had a lot of really interesting things
to say. Well, we've seen we've heard about this, We've seen clips
of his of him saying he saw this, But now you get to see
James Fox's entire interview, so you get to see. That's what we posted.
James Fox use this video in his lecture at the UFO Congress this last
year, and he also provided it to us to post online so people can
see the whole thing. And so you see it starts off with Simington listening
to the witnesses that and James Fox is playing a tape of the witnesses saying,
you know, we felt really crappy when he made fun of us and
that wasn't cool, dude. And you see it. He even seems to
get emotional. Did you see that? I feel like you did see it?
Yeah, Yeah, it was really something. Yeah, And then he
says I saw it too, and then he goes on to say some other
things like the Pentagon knew and he thinks that, you know, he was
in the Air Force and this sort of thing happened, and they were supposed
to report these sort of things, and and he says some really interesting things.
I think in that video, I do too, you know. I
when I had I'm trying to think who it was on my show. The
woman you actually said she was a wonderful person. The one that was involved
in a Polish frantis Barwood, Thank you God lost the name when I had
her on. You know, there were people in my chat room that were
bashing, uh fight Simonton, you know by this, you know, uh
saying he was a felon and blah blah blah, all this stuff, and
I thought it was crazy, you know. And then so I had one
of the people in the chat room. I had them forward me whatever information
that they were, you know, coming up with, and nothing there was,
you know, there was some type of thing where he, uh,
I guess, was filling out some paperwork for something and and didn't disclose some
and he had they kind of held something over him. So there's Francis thought
there was possibly something going on with that why he did that whole thing as
far as the alien coming out with him and saying, you guys are taking
this far too serious, you know, that type of thing. They think
that he had pressure against him because of that situation and why he did that.
It would be interesting to know if he ever talks about that. He
has talked to people about that and said, no, that's not the case,
and not publicly though. This is from what I understand I see of
people who have asked him this same thing in the background. No, I
think that the real answer to me makes sense and that he just wanted and
I think that's at the heart of this whole thing, kind of like what
John Alexander talks about, is he just didn't want any part of it.
He wanted people to shut up so they could get back to business and doing
their regular job. And he's like, you know, how can I stop
this whole thing and let's just move on so I keep getting quick getting these
stupid UFO questions and we can move back just to regular business and get back
to things. So, you know, that's what he said. He just
wanted to kind of disarm the whole thing too cool, like he says,
to have everybody chill out and move on. And so he made fun of
it. And when it comes to something that is where you just don't know
what the hell it is, but you're the person who's supposed to come up
with an answer. You know, I could see how people would be motivated
by I don't know what it is. These things are stupid, so let's
just move on, and I that's it. It seems like an attitude a
lot of people have, even in the Air Force and certainly people I've talked
to where they're like, I don't want to be associated with UFO, so
I'm not gonna report this or I am going to report it. Charles Hall
talks about this where he just, you know, filled out the report.
Let's move on, let's we don't know what it is. Let's just move
on with our lives. So I think people a lot of people have that
feeling in government, and so I don't know, that's what he says.
He says he certainly it didn't have to do with the pressure that he had
felt because he had some legal issues like all politicians. I don't know as
far as the people hate and it's just you know, every little people just
love to hate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you do see that.
Unfortunately, you do see that a lot online. Yep. But it does
sound like he didn't get any support, so that probably had to make things
even more difficult for him, and that if he really was looking for answers
and no one was helping him. And that's essentially what happened to Francis.
She was looking for answers and no one, including Signmington's office, would help
her. Amazing, isn't it It is? And just to remind people,
Francis Barward is a Phoenix City councilwoman. She was a councilwoman at the time.
She heard about the signing a couple of days after when a news reporter
said, hey, don't you have anything to say about this whole UFO situation
and she's like, what are you talking about? What UFO situation? And
then she started to make inquiries, spoke to something like seven hundred plus witnesses
and she which was a credit to her. She's just a great person and
I interviewed her years ago. We had her at the UFO congress also,
and you can see her video on our on demand section, and I really
highly highly recommend everybody look at it because she's she's I think, one of
the greatest stories in the whole Phoenix Sights. And they can go listen to
your recent interview with her. Yes, I had so much positive feedback from
listeners after I interviewed her, and I interviewed a few other people that same
show, and everyone said, oh, why didn't you just keep on with
her? She was wonderful. Yeah, real nice lady and yeah, full
of integrity too. Yeah, she's great. So and she always sends these
really nice notes. Yeah, she hasn't been able to make the conference the
last couple of years health issues, even though she doesn't live too far away.
She's in Sedona, I believe, beautiful area out here, and so
she'll send a note. I hope you had, guys, had a great
confidence or I couldn't make it. And yeah, she's a wonderful person.
Yes, absolutely all right, So any more news, my friend that I
can think of. No one's landed on the White House lawn yet, no,
Okay, well we can want to keep our fingers crossed that that happens.
I'll though I wouldn't recommend they go there, right yeah, so maybe
I choose another location they can come. You know, they visit the park
across the parking lot here. It's a beautiful park, it's a sunny day.
That would be perfect. We would add open minds, bring our cameras
out and interview the alien. So hopefully they come land there. They're going
to have to be careful though, because as we were starting the show that
one of the kids playing football came over and urinated. I don't think he
knew that all of us in the offices could see him, but he came
over and urinated on this building over in the park, So be careful of
that. Yeah, and that'd be perfectly ending spot for him. So there's
my invitation. There you go. Hopefully they'll hear it. Yeah, all
right, Well, thank you so much, Martin. You have a wonderful
rest of your day. My pleasure, and thank you. I will,
and let's go ahead and talk to Cheryl. I am very happy to welcome
back to the show Cheryl Costa. Hello, Hi, How you doing good
in Arizona? Sir? Oh, so far so good. Things are doing
pretty well, especially when you're not sick. And this time of year,
the weather out here is wonderful. So's it's nice to be able to get
out there. I think the big problem is that you have a lot of
what I call typhoid or flu mary's if you know, fly out there.
They they're not feeling well, and then they take everybody else, you know.
Yeah. Yeah, I've got a spouse who works at a college library
and all these kids, and so she's bringing home something about every other week
from the kids. You know, I hear you so And speaking of whom
Linda, I co wrote the book with you. Yes, And I guess
I getting down to a we all know. At least I've spoken about you,
and I think the audience knows. And we've had you on the show
before, right I'm sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talked last
year. So people are familiar with you and your work are my listeners.
So what role did g Linda have it in the book? Well? Two
things. One, she's had a ton of experience because she's we both lived
in Washington, d C. And she worked for various scientific organizations. So
we wanted to lay the book out like a scientific report. Okay, that's
why we got such a boring cover, because she wanted to lay it out
like something that might be on some congressman's desk, you know, from some
cabinet organization that does scientific work. And that was her intent. In fact,
if you go through the book right now, it looks like I got
to send you one I forgot about that. If you go through the book,
it looks like it was laid out by the Census Department. And that's
the context we wanted, and so she was gonna do. She did layout,
she acted as editor is again she has that publishing background. But the
other thing she did was she was also she knew a lot of what I
was doing, all the compiling of all the state statistics, and every now
and then she'd come over to me and say, did you happen to notice
this weird pattern? And I had been so busy putting everything together, there
were times I didn't see something really strange or really interesting, you know,
And she pointed these things out to me. Plus she helped write the first
five chapters. We have narrative and there before we get into the chapter,
get into the actual statistics of each state, which the average state has five
five pages. A couple of states like Texas and some of the really big
ones that they have a lot of counties have more, but that's pretty much
the deal. It's a three hundred and uh it's almost a three hundred and
seventy page book with everything. Mm hm. So it seems like you're very
proud of this book. We are, uh huh. And in your mind
this this amounts to this is something that you know a lot of people haven't
figured out yet. What we have done for the first time ever is we
have conducted a nationwide UFO census, right and and for instance, I mean,
what is it significant significant of that? Well, we can we can
literally tell you. We have a summary chapter. It's got all the stats
for all the states, all kind of summed up into a couple of charts
on a couple of tables in the front, about four or five pages.
That's just for the United States and all fifty states and the district. Okay,
we didn't do any territories. We're going to save the territories for an
the international book we have in their works. The interesting thing is we've took
each state, did its it's full numbers. It's it's a top ten counties,
top ten shapes, and we can literally drill down to the county level.
Now neither database new Fork or mofon. Neither one of them. Well
Newfork doesn't collect county data and Moufon does, but it's very highly dependent upon
the person who's filling out the report. And you wouldn't believe how many people
didn't know what county they were in, so are left blank. So we
just went ahead and went by the cities that we had, and when we
were cleaning, doing what we call scrubbing of the databases, we went ahead
and we had a master city to county list, and we went ahead and
serted county data for everything. And there's three hundred twenty seven counties in the
United States, I'm sorry, three thousand, twenty seven counties in the United
States. So this took a while, Yeah, a lot of work.
How long have you been working on this overall? Okay? The whole project
took sixteen months. Okay, that's pretty telling me. About ten to eleven
months to compile all the data. And then in fact, in the book
there's a we instead of doing a an introduction, we did an FAQ okay
to answer common questions, and in the book we say fourteen months, but
when we actually wrote that statement, we ran into some snags in the layout
and things like this, and you know, running a proof of the Amazon
and all that kind of stuff. And by the time we got done,
it was a total sixteen months so and a lot of a lot of work.
Because I know, talking to you, you've been working on this.
Has it been like a little bit every day at least, certainly weekly at
least. Yeah, Well, what we tell most people is it basically chewed
up all but three weekends over the last year and a half. Wow,
it was in the longer weekends, you know. But you know when I
say all but three, there was one where we were sick, sick on
our backs with the flu or something like it for a day or two,
but it messed up the weekend. And there were a couple of things where
there were some family obligations we had to kind of go to. But so
I usually made up for some of that during the week after work. But
at the time I had a very high power job at a bank, and
the type I was doing similar type of crunching at the bank at a very
high level, and so I was usually pretty friede when it came home.
But I would do give you example, if I was crunching a state,
and I was doing it during the week I did something really small, some
some Midwestern state that didn't have a lot of sightings. Because you're talking,
give me an example of stay. I sat down, didn't New York State
the first time, and it took me a weekend, a four day weekend
to do it. Was well, it was almost close to five thousand records
California. I had to do over two weekends because it was fifteen thousand records.
Whoa actually culture the sixteen thousand says fifteen eight hundred and thirty five records,
So it was it was pretty crazy, and there were other little tweaks
we had to make here and there. But for the most part, towards
the end, as I was compiling, I did all most of the other
states, and I saved the top ten states sorted to last because I they
were going a lot of time. That's kind of how it worked out.
So the sources for the data, of course, i's move on what we
reference which is the largest investigative organization. The other large group is or a
large reporting center would be the National UFO Reporting Center. Were those your two
main sources of data? Yes, I was most familiar with those two,
and frankly, while I did have some people come to me later and tell
me there were other databases, I wasn't really familiar with them. On the
other hand, I do write a newspaper column and have been doing it for
three years. So I'm in a national UFO Reporting Center and move On literally
every week looking at things, you know, so I had a good sense
for how they were laid out and everything. The goofy thing about it is
is National UFO Reporting Center and was about typically about sixty percent of the data
and move On was about forty percent. Some states it was seventy thirty.
There was one state it was like eighty twenty, and there were three,
move On being the smaller. There were three states that move On was the
dominant one. Okay, Texas was one of them, amazingly enough, And
so that was that was a key thing to keep in mind, was that
there's different ratios in tech with every state. When we do the little format
of the you know, the state chart, and then we start breaking things
down, we do have a little box towards the last page of each state's
worth the stats and we have a breakdown It says, Okay, Newfork was
this move On was that gave the number of the total number based on what
you're seeing in the report, and then the percentages. Now we do a
summary of those. We do a summary of those percentages in the front summary
of the book. Yeah, and I would argue that those are the big
eats by far. So, I mean, I think it makes sense to
focus on those two organizations the most because, yeah, by far, they've
collected and interesting enough, Newfork's been the advantage they've had. They've been online
longer than move On. In fact, your book ranges from twenty one to
twenty fifteen. I don't think you probably know exactly because you were working with
the data. Move On didn't get their data online till what something like twenty
two thousand and seven. Yeah, it was like two thousand and six,
two thousand and seven time frame. They had a bulletin board system collection going
on in the late nineties, but it wasn't it wasn't really online on the
web until, like you said, around two thousand and six, two thousand
and seven time frame, and they just did some major changes to it again,
so it's they're constantly trying to upgrade it. The National UFO Reporting Center.
One of the things that was kind of nice there is is because it
was all available online now, not the confidential stuff, not a layer down
at the investigator level, but the public level, which is all we used.
We only used the actual dates and years, that type of thing,
the states, states, cities and state and the shapes. That's all we
used. We didn't actually use we didn't use the actual citing data. In
fact, there was a quite somebody at move On race to stink about that,
oh my god, she did all this stuff without permission, And we
explained that everything we did had been given to us at a public level and
I didn't have deep access or anything like that, and yeah, that was
all we're interested in. It's funny how that happens, because that happens to
me too, because I'll usually compile a yearly report of a high level overview
of the stats of UFOs for the year, and there's always those people saying
where they're getting access that everybody else can't get, But no, I just
use Actually I used the monthly emails that come out where MoveOn gives some stats
and it's just public information. That's the beauty of Newfork keeping it simple that
it's a much easier job to cut and paste that information into an Excel than
it is. Even though the move on databasis very sophisticated and collect so a
lot of different things, it's much more difficult actually to access some of those
numbers. Well, you know what was funny is I had some cooperation from
them. Initially I had a lot of pushback, and I was having a
lot of trouble getting getting the data. And then finally I got I got
some high level people and move on talking to me. Linda sat down,
she's an executive, and I guess she she got on the phone and did
some executive talk with him and Powell, Roger Powell. He shipped me.
He shipped me a file. Now what the problem was? The file he
sent me did not have, like the last man, I'm going to say,
the last three or four months worth of twenty fifteen. So I had
to physically manually go in to the website and look up each state for a
very narrow window of time. It was a little time consuming. It was
one of those things I did every night after work before so upper kind of
thing, and then I caught it all up. If there's any holes in
the data. It's because I had to go and gather the last quarter of
twenty fifteen that manual way. But the stuff that he shared with me,
I scrubbed the stuff that they would be touchy about. I scrubbed that right
out immediately and then started cleaning it up and aligning that stuff so I could
suck it into the same database that I had all the all the newfork data
in h So you talked about there's over three thousand counties in the United States.
Does that mean do you feel then, like your book you can drill
down to that level and is there are UFO sighting in every county. I'm
gonna say yes, No, I just did an article in my columns.
Yeah, I saw that. Okay, there's three hundred counties that I've only
had one, the one what I call one hit wonders. They had one
UFO sighting in the fifteen year window. A lot of them were in Texas
because Texas has like two hundred and fifty six counties and some of them are
just out there, not much more than sagebrush, you know, So that
that kind of like how it shook out there. There are some now I'm
there may have been some we missed. If you look at a particular state
during that period of time, you'll see, particularly some counties, you'll see
maybe only one or two sightings in the fifteen years as you go across in
the book, we've got two thousand and one in rows vertical rows two thousand
and one through twenty fifteen, and then the counties are going down the side,
so you might look at such and such county and maybe only see one
or two or three sightings scattered across the fifteen years, you know. So,
like I said, everybody, I did screen it all at one point
to see if anybody didn't have one. And that was one of the points
that Linda brought up. Every single county that we measured had at least one.
Wow. Yeah, And that was a really creative idea to write a
story half out where are they're not UFOs being reported? Yeah, my boss
gave it that title. I didn't even know what to call it, but
where the UFOs are scarce? You know? And it was it was interesting.
It was a total three hundred counties, the top ten where I listed
in the county and or listed in the article, and uh, it's there's
a couple more interesting ones where I'm going to drill down look at the stuff.
You know, what happened that article that there was about two weeks ago,
there was this huge amount of press out on the West coast. Yeah,
two stories broke Washington State. I had given them the Washington Seattle Post
Intelligencer, they called SEATTLEPI. I had pitched the story to them and they
liked it. So they got Jake Ellison, who was a stringer for them,
to write the story and he had it all done a good week and
a half, two weeks before we physically released the book, and we were
still doing a proof thing with Amazon at the time, so they decided to
sit on it until the actual book was available so they could give a link
out to the Amazon site. And then what I didn't know was, during
the course of the interview, who asked me, well, what's the top
state? And I said it was California, And he took a little bit
of information about California and he turned around, did a similar article, except
more tune to California, and gave it to sth Gate, which is the
San Francisco Chronicles online edition. Well about halfway in the middle of the afternoon,
the day the article came out, I get this phone call from a
producer at KBC seven to ninety talk radio up there in La. He says,
yeah, can we have you wine this afternoon? I said sure?
Why? He says, the story came out in San Francisco Gate and social
media has gone is on fire. Everybody's talking about it. California is number
one, you know, And that was that's how all that went down.
It was amazing. That's really funny. Now, with California being number one,
is it more of an issue of population? Do you feel or do
you feel that perhaps even per capita, there are more sightings per person out
there? I would say there are. We did a in the book,
we did a thing about I did an analysis based on population versus amount of
sightings within like the top ten states. And while there's a very large population
out there, you do. I have two overlapping charts, and you can
see that the populations for the top ten states all sit there in the in
this one little range, but California's numbers are through the roof. I'll give
you an example. California's fifteen and thirty five sightings. Okay, that is
twice Florida and Texas Florida seven seven eighty seven and Texas when I think seven
thousand and fifty eight something like that, And so it's double at that point
when you get to the rest of the top ten states. California is three
times what all the rest of those states are now and their populations are still
pretty significant. New York states. Hell, we're almost twenty million here.
So it's interesting and I, you know, haven't been in this and written
about it for a while. What are your thoughts as to why that is
the case. Why is what the case that California has so many sightings compared
to elsewhere. Well, that's that's what bothered me for a little bit,
particularly southern California. Okay. I did a little bit of research here and
I had to do was I had to. I went out and this is
about a week ago, and I did this for just a couple of states.
I wanted to see what the deal was, and I determined that there
were you know how they talk about that thirty seventh parallel of the thirty seven
degrees latitude. Well, I managed to go out and get latitude information for
the cities in these different states. Okay, and I took out at the
time to make things easier. I only put it in the top ten states,
and I only did it for the thirty seventh thirty seventh degrees, you
know, and everything within thirty seven degrees, and California had a significant number
of its counties were in the thirty seven degree. Thing. I got to
qualify this correlation does not mean causality. Okay, Okay, that's coming from
Linda, who always tells me this. Now, one other thing you should
know what surprised me is LA. Now, LA by itself was thirty two
hundred twelve three thy two hundred and twelve sightings in that fifteen year window.
It was more than forty individual states by itself, Okay, which is interesting.
Now, I didn't know this, this little fact. I was watching
one of these, you know, one of these you know, you know
there's a ton of channels and hired channels that are running all kinds of UFO
documentaries, okay, and I saw this one I had never seen before,
and they indicated that LA had been seeing UFOs since before we had manned flight.
They had squads of these things being seen in the eighteen eighties, eighteen
nineties, okay, and at the turn of the at the turn of the
twenty century, so the La Basin area has been a hotbed for it for
well over one hundred years. Mm. Well, that surprised me, and
I do not do a little bit of researching. Oh yeah, that's the
deal. So when I was talking to KABC, I pointed that backed out
and you'd be surprised how many people there in LA didn't know this interesting I've
also found it, and I wonder if your numbers demonstrated this as well,
which may explain some of this Southern California part of it. More specifically,
is that per person, it seems like the Southwest itself, the Southwest states
have a lot of are really high on the list. For example, Arizona
and Colorado have always been on really high on my list as far as UFOs
per person. So it's kind of seems like the Southwest United States is a
hot sp that kind of area. Is that? Do your numbers show that
you think? Yes, yes, I'll give you. I'll give you the
real number here in a moment, I have a copy of the book here
in front of me. All right, California, of course was number one.
Arizona is number seven in the country. Okay, And as we dig
down a little deeper, I mean we'll hear Colorado's number twelve. So yeah,
this is this is a big deal. Okay. So out of fifty
states, Colorado ranks number twelve, and of course Arizona ranks number seven,
and there was there's there's something interesting about both those states. Maricopa County there
in Arizona is number two to Los Angeles County. Really wow, yeah yeah,
just so people know that is like the most populous county here. That's
the Phoenix area. That's where I'm at right now, right, should I
be worried? Well, I don't know. Give you an example of the
Maricoopa County had twenty five twenty two, five twenty three for the fifteen year
sample period and as compared to three thousand and thirty two twelve for LA.
That's a big deal. They're number two in the country. And that was
the weird thing. I was trying to pitch it to the newspaper down there.
Did you guys are like number two in the country, Just find your
own in your head of like thirty five states. They weren't interested, which
is funny unless it's tied to and maybe I can plug. I'm going to
be doing a ton of media this weekend next week in the local media because
of a new movie about it's very loosely based. It's a horror movie,
but that they're basing it off the Phoenix Lights. And if you could that's
the news here loves the Phoenix Lights UFO phenomena. And so if you mentioned
Phoenix Lights then they get excited. That's that's a for you as a clue
how it might help you get in. But I'll mention that your book,
and I'll mention that when I do these interviews, because this movie is coming
out, so they all want to do interviews about the Phoenix Lights. So
that's that's one of the things they love the Phoenix Lights out here. Yeah.
Well, when I when I reached out to a Fox station there,
I think it was Fox ten, and I reached out to the Arizona Republic.
I my pitch was hey, and this was like three weeks ahead of
the anniversary. I said, Hey, you've got the twentieth anniversary of the
Phoenix Lights coming up. How would you like some current stance, you know,
the mind blowing stance. And the producer Fox ten kept selling yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to use it. And
then by the time they got around the talking to me, they already there
were already four four and a half minutes worth of news story and they decided
not to use any of it. Yeah, which is turned shame because you
know, I love hearing about things that happened twenty years ago and everything.
But what's happening now. I'm sorry, I'm in the news business. That's
old news. Yeah, I hear you, And usually that's what the news
wants, is what's happening now? What's happening now? But I don't know
people, as you know, in this field, the media can be really
weird. Do you never know what's really going to get them excited or motivated
to do something serious about the topic. Have you had other successes though,
I mean, California went crazy, like you said, tons and tons and
tons of stories on your book and about how you found California to be number
one? I know. I've seen a few others though, media outlets who
have also kind of picked up and wanted to do stats in their areas.
Wow. Well, actually most of them are just reprinting variants of the of
the story, the California story. Because the California story mentioned the top ten
states, none of them have actually reached out to me. Now that that
said, I'll say I'll say it this way. The Gannet people who own
USA Today and a whole bunch of other regional newspapers. I originally pitched them
back around all three weeks before Phoenix Lights as well, and I was a
couple of weeks out from releasing our book. So I was out pitching the
people and they blew me off. They were polite about it, but they
said now, not now. And then after that stuff went in California,
suddenly they've taken an interest. Same thing with a news outfit in the New
York City area, because I went to them and pitched Long Island and they
were a Long Island news outlet, and because in the Long Island Suffolk County,
Long Island is number one in New York State. Now in the Ufolk
community, you let everybody talk, Oh pine Bush, New York. You
know that's where the capital of UFOs are. There's I'm gonna tell you tight
the truth. Five other counties have far more UFO sightings than Pine Bush does.
Really, Yeah, that's their hype. You know, they got a
festival, they got to hype it up. But it's a bubba burster unfortunately.
But it's it's kind of an anecdotal. Since they're known for it,
I guess they look more and then they see stuff and it makes news.
But it's all about the numbers. Yeah. Well, I wrote an article
of about a little about a year ago. I had already done the New
York state numbers, and I said, you know, if we're ever going
to have a New York State conference UFO conference, it ought to be done
in Suffolk County, Long Island, because that is the that is the hotspot
for state and that's kind of where it went. But it's there's been amazing
numbers here, amazing staff I. At one point we did in our analysis
we didn't have an easy way to break this down into regions of the United
States, so we use standard stuff from the Census Department. We use Census
Department maps, Census Department regions and divisions. It may compact. All the
government agencies use that, so we figured let's do that too. That's how
we managed to break it down. So it's a really really it's an eight
and a half eleven by book. And when I gave my mother her copy,
she looked at this thing. He says, my god, this is
a lethal weapon. Yeah, it's a thick book. So what about surprises?
Were there some surprise that you came across looking at the numbers? Yeah,
okay, I'll give you one right off the bat. People come to
me and say, oh, UFOs, they all got to be up in
Alaska. No, UFOs, they all got to be in the desert.
Well, which part of the Yeah, you know, if they're in Phoenix,
yeah, absolutely, it's through the roof. But there's other places now
it's not there. Well, what about the nation's capital, Washington, d
C? Bottom of the freaking list? Yeah, there was not much there.
But okay, what you have to do is remember Washington is a business.
It's only a twenty square mile area. Everybody lives in Maryland and Virginia
and Delaware okay we call del Marva okay, And so everybody just lives around
it. So most of the sightings we think that we're probably associated with Washington,
d C probably were reported in the in the Delaware, Maryland, Virginia
bedroom communities. That makes sense. Another surprise, I did a posting in
the UFL groups over the weekend where I had a screen shot from a nineteen
forty nine declassified CIA document that was from the Office of Scientific Investigation, where
doctor so and so and doctor so and so we're discussing this, and one
of the bullet points was, has anybody noticed that there seems to be a
seasonal pattern? And he had kind of little little pattern, little chart down
there with twenty five or thirty sighting dots going across it, and he had
a little question at the bottom of the page. Know what is this some
kind of summer madness or something, you know, something to dat effect.
This is in nineteen forty nine, we're talking sixty eight years ago. All
right, Well, I didn't see it. I had seen this pattern in
New York State. Okay, it's kind of low in quiescent, you know,
five ten sightings January, February, March, April, ticks up just
a tiny bit. May, it's ticking up June, July and August.
It goes to the rough big hump there, Okay, July and August in
the high season, and then starts taking back down again and levels off when
you get out around November and December the same kind of numbers that January have.
Well, we thought that that was what the pattern was. And everybody's
common logic, what I'm gonna call it, common horse sense logic says,
well, in summertime, more people are out in the summertime, it's nice
weather. Okay, all right, What if I told you it was latitude
dependent, that'd be weird. I didn't know this. Linda was laying putting
the thing together, and at one point she says she'd already done about twenty
of the states, and she says, if you noticed this pattern, because
at the end of the state books, I did the UFOs by months,
a goofy little jar I did him by months and a lot of a couple
of people, and he said, why are you even bothering listening him by
months? No, that's great. I love that. And you did that
for every saint, every state, because I think I would love to see
Arizona. It might be the opposite, because everybody's inside in the summer actually
in Arizona because we're running, we're hiding from the heat. Like you told
me that. You told me that. But there's one other goofy thing about
the whole thing. All right. If you're up in the states kind of
like Maine, which is kind of paralleled a lot of Canadian countries, the
sightings pick up around August and trail off slowly in the fall. Okay,
it a little further down to New England and down to about like New York
State, Pennsylvania, go across the Michigan and everything, and you got your
little hump in the middle there June, July, August, some degree September.
Okay, nice big peak. You get down around Virginia and West Virginia,
that bump in the middle starts flattening, starts coming down. When you
get into the deep South and Southwest states, the sightings per month are statistically
flat, not physically flat, but they're statistically flat. Now that lee's more
weight to the fact that the weather's nicer down there, yeah, okay,
year round, okay. And Arizona's like that, Florida's like that, Texas
is like that, Southern California is like that. So too. Yeah,
that's really interesting though, But at least you're confirming by numbers that, you
know, the nicer the weather, the more consistent, more consistent the weather,
the more consistent the UFO sightings. Okay, now the only two places
that completely falls apart, Alaska and Hawaii. Alaska has all their high sightings
through the winter months November, December, January, February, March and starts
coming down and gets down to around April. Those numbers are falling and during
the June July August time frame it bottoms out. I wonder if there's a
correlation with daylight, because they have the longer days. That's what we figured.
When a most people see things, they see him typically at night,
you know, and and what have they got at that time and that time
of the season, white nights, And so that's that's the only correlation we
could make sense of with they see more UFOs because it's dark all the time
during the winter months, but during when the summer months come, it's daylight
all the time. There's nothing to see, yeah, or very little.
And then Hawaii, Hawaii, Hawaii has thesely bumps. And I'm checking it
out with the travel agencies. Our first guess is these are periods for people
traveling to Hawaii quarterly intertuff for everything for weddings and vacations or something like that.
There must be what they call hot seat travel seasons, you know,
And that's what we that's what we think the deal is. It's like Florida
to some degree, Florida. All those snowbirds go down to Florida the winter
time, winter, you know, and so we see a little bit of
bump there, you know, for the winter months. And so that's what
we think might be the deal. Who knows for sure. That's very interesting
though, quarterly bumps. Yeah, it's wild, wild, and it's all
over the place. But then again it might just be an artifact of reporting.
The people who are reporting are seeing things they're probably visiting and this is
the first time, maybe they live in a big city or something like this.
This first time they've actually been out on a nice temper at night,
and that doesn't in a place that doesn't have huge amount of light pollution.
That's what we think. And so we're not one hundred percent sure what the
numbers really should be for Hawaii, but everything that we had from both databases
has this quarterly has this up and down quarterly bump type thing going on.
And then there's one last really weird surprise. Okay, two things we noticed
with the monthly and I did a summary of everything February nationwide is the lowest
sighting month in the entire country. Interesting lower, It is lower by about
three percent than any other any other month, at least three to five percent,
okay minimum. And the other thing we noticed was yeah, well there
you go, there you go. Yeah, and you know, amazically enough
even for being out in the desert like it is, most of us are
now outside looking at the sky, you know. Some Yeah, we're either
inside or we're engrossed in discussing UFOs with each other. You bet, you
bet. Now. The other last one that we had that was really an
eye opener was, in fact, I wrote it up in the book.
When I was discussing the seasonal pattern in my analysis, I wrote up one
of the last things. I could not let it go. I said,
we had to talk about New Mexico. New Mexico has the characteristic statistically flat
sightings for all the months except for September. September spikes huh, September never
Yeah, And I literally say in the book, if any bloody knows what's
going on in September, will they please let me know? Have you heard
anything? No? No, I haven't heard anything yet. But there aren't
that many copies of your book out there's probably fifty or one hundred copies of
the book out there in circulation right now. So I'll wait for somebody to
come back and tell me. But it was like the numbers were like three
four times the rest of that flat flatness exciting. Wow, that is really
strange. That's really interesting. So hopefully maybe some listeners will have some insight
as to what's going on in New Mexico in September. Now, I spent
quite a bit of time out there. My mom lived out there. Wait
a minute, isn't that that's Roswell State, isn't it? That is Roswell
State. But Roswell the event itself was in July. The convention for it
is in July. Yeah, late June, early July. So so yeah,
what the heck? Huh uh? That threw a curve. That really
threw us a curve. Yeah, that is a weird one September. Yeah,
so I can't think of anything. And I love New Mexico. That's
one of my states, I mean, because like I said, my mom
lived there and I would go out there a lot. Uh So, Colorado,
New Mexico, Arizona kind of my and then California are my states of
residents that I visit or have family and that I love the most. I
love New Mexico and I've had I had a wonderful time a couple of times
I went out there. I spent like about three weeks out there once.
Well okay, well, well let me let me qualify that. Okay,
the average monthly thing was sitting around one hundred sightings a month, okay,
and it goes up that for that one month, it goes up, and
for October is slightly elevated. It goes up to almost two hundred sightings per
months. It's like a hundred and then the October is October is a one
hundred and thirty eight. But the rest of them are all sitting around one
hundred hundred and twenty. And it just blew me away. Now what I've
been tempted to do when I get a little bit of time, I'm thinking
about putting a map of New Mexico up on the wall and again go into
the county charts and see if there's a dominant county or cluster counties where this
stuff is going on. That's the next piece of exploration. But I couldn't
do all this. I've had a lot of people say, well, why
didn't you do more research? And I said, it took me almost eighteen
month compile the data, you know, And then that's why we made this
for other people. We made this for scientific research. We made this for
people who are interested in it, people who are in people who are move
on investigators, or any kind of investigators out there, armchair investigators. Me.
Hey, I'm an armchair investigator. Computers, libraries is where I do
my work. I do not march around in farmer's fields with cow pitty take
some barb ware. And you know, that's what this great. This book
is great for and it's one of the things that I think everybody in this
field, serious researchers always feel that is lacking is enough statistical research because we
have the data, but it takes so much and there's not a lot of
people going through and putting together the data like you are because it is so
laborious. It takes a lot of work. So that's what's great about what
you've done. Because as soon as I get my copy, which I'm very
excited for, I'll be referencing that probably on a weekly basis. Yeah,
the two guys who I know. You know, doctor Gordon Spear. He
comes to i UFO C religiously. He retired astronomer from Sonoma University. Him
and Rich Hoffman, Alabama chief investigator. They did the forward for the book
great and the thing that they both were excited about, particularly doctor Spear,
is somebody finally did big data crunching. Even Project Bluebook only had twelve thousand
sightings to work from. We had one hundred. Okay, here's the big
number for your listeners, one hundred. And the press from that California article
said over one hundred and twenty thousand. The real number is one hundred and
twenty one thousand and thirty six, and for that fifteen year window, and
the number is increasing, and we've allowed, we've made certain adjustments, We've
watched certain things. There are some artifacts of reporting where certain things happen,
like on the Muffon stuff. Around two thousand and eight, somebody did a
Discovery channel, somebody did a documentary about Moufon, and their numbers jumped.
And then you look a new fork and it goes along on trend, but
Moufons jumps up about and it levels out into a trend you know, so
there are and then there's an artifact of reporting. With twenty twelve, everybody
was overly conscious with the end of the mine calendar and all this kind of
stuff. There was a high level of awareness and there was an astronomical jump
that year nationwide. The thing is is that if you look at anybody whoever
looks at the UFO numbers from year to year, there's like about a six
seven year humpy cycle. They kind of hump along like little waves on the
ocean. And if you look carefully at the chart, you'll see that that
those those humps kind of even as it's going up in intensity, except for
that one year it seems to be spiking. But if you kind of draw
that curve right through that line, you see it starting to go into a
downward hump. So, you know, everything seems to be consistent, wouldn't
the thing? Somebody was bugging me about here recently, and this is one
of the skeptics. He said, well, it's all crack, pops and
nuts, he says to me. And this is a guy I knew working
for the bank. I have since retired. I retired on Valentine's Day.
Congratulations, Thank you, Thank you. In fact, that my spouse,
Linda made a very big point of making that a She literally called me up
at work on Valentine's Day said I am giving you a Valentine's Day present,
and it is take this car and take this job and shove it card.
And about an hour later, I literally put my laptop on my boss's desk,
took my badge off and said, I've had enough. Buy awesome,
but the deal is oh well, the thing before I talked that, I
went off that man mine. Oh the cooks and nuts thing, Yeah,
I get this lot. I had a TV station here locally talking to me
last week. Okay, well, how do we know these numbers are credible?
They're not all coups and nuts, that's literally the quote. Well,
what we found going through the records, we found that it was barely two
percent. Okay. For one, most people just want to get it off
their chest, you know, they just want to get it off their chest.
And you can tell that, you can see, you can hear the
sincerity in what they're in, what they're saying, how they write it up
okay. And the other thing was I pointed, oh, I don't even
want to say this. This is going to be good. This is going
to be juicy if you're trying well. The bottom line is is that it's
not all coops and nuts. It's very sincere people. So one of the
arguments we made in the book that we have a chapter in the book called
one thirty six Eyewitness of Reports, and it takes that line to one of
your speakers at I UFO C had a couple of years ago this said,
except for UFOs, unless you have forensics evidence, I wouldn'ts testimony can get
you convicted in every court in this country. You know, the why doesn't
apply here, you know. And that's where we kind of made our little
statement about disclosure. But this is the thing that we saw consistently is most
people were very Most people were very sincere. The people I have met doing
a columnists where I've had families invite me over to a I don't do this
a lot, but every now and then I'll get invited to a backyard barbecue.
I'll go over there and I'll introduce myself. Oh yeah, yeah,
yeah, we want you to meet uncle, uncle bral or aunt Mabel she
saw UFO. Yeah. So you sit down with them and they look like
combat veterans. When you talk to them, if they really are telling you
the truth, you can see it in their eyes. They are living it
again, right, And I see, I've seen this time and time and
time again. And this is when I tell these guys that these tv sactions
are being all callous about this. And I said, like, everybody I
talked to is giving a sincere report, and there's no place to report this
stuff. The Air Force hasn't been doing since sixty eight. The local newspaper
I talked to them, they say they get seven reports a week, but
they blow everybody off as a nut. The cops they write it down on
the blodder, but unless it's a risk to health and safety, they don't
pay any attention. Yeah, you know, I went and checked these things
out, I said, so we And oh another reason we did this for
two thousand and one to twenty fifteen. Remember in two thousand and one,
after nine to eleven, they said report what do you see? M hm?
So that's we took that tone in here too. Hey, we were
asked to report what we see. Well, this is what one hundred and
twenty one thousand people reported, right, Yeah, I mean when I became
a movefine investigator. My first case was a security guard who is just back
from the Middle East, and he was in that mindset report what you see,
very very credible witness. In fact, all of the cases I got
that where I spoke to people that people were very credible and very normal.
They weren't coops and weirdos. There was a reporter asked me, the guy
from the SEATTLEPI asked me, he says, who's the most common person to
report these things? I said, well, I said, for my observation,
and after talking to some moof one and its people taking the dog for
a walk before bedtime, people taking going out for a smoke and taking the
dog for a walk, or just people going out on the back porch for
a smoke. Yeah, exactly. And that was the most common thing we've
saw through the whole database, was this constant, this continuous flavor of story.
And then motorists and then everything else. You know. So this has
been an eye opening I don't want to call it a spiritual experience, but
it has been a rush to do these. It would be some money.
There were so many times I would get done with the state and when I
was sure the data was clean, enough to do a table on it.
I'd crank the pay at the table program to see what it looked like.
You know, I couldn't wait. It was like a kid on Christmas morning,
you know. I got to see what the state is. You know.
Yeah, let me ask you this now that we're getting kind of that
out of time. But with one hundred and twenty thousand or so sightings,
is it your feeling that that represents one hundred and twenty thousand or so people
or more? Well, okay, let's use Stanton Friedman's formula one in ten
reports. And I did a chapter like this in the book, and I
said, well, there are other people who say that number might be bigger
or whatever. I went with his one and ten people report what they see.
So we said, huh, one hundred and twenty one thousand times ten,
that's one point two million. And I cranked it back and said,
you know, investigators tell me that this stuff is about six or seven percent.
And we started looking at the numbers. We eliminated the obvious shapes that
could easily be military craft, you know, triangles, blimps, that kind
of thing. And guess what the one hundred and twenty one thousand ends up
being about six and a half percent of the one point two million. So
we look at the thing and says, you know, there's a lot more
out there. It's a difference of Hey, there's eight thousand sightings a year.
If you use the Freeman factor, as we call it, there's eighty
thousand, yeah, out there a year. Well, and I mean even
for just a number of people reporting. I look at reports every day,
and you know you've probably seen this as well. Many of the reports say
me and my mom or outside, you know, me and my wife,
or me and my kids. So a lot although there's only one report,
there are often you know, two or three witnesses associated with that report,
And to me, I think just at least signifies a or shows that there's
a social or cultural significance to hundreds of thousands of people. You know.
Well, this is the other thing I was going to tell you about the
family reunion. I've observed that families are handing down these UFO sightings like family
heirlooms. Oh yeah, interesting treasured stories. I did a two stories like
this, one that was set back in the thirties and one that was set
back in the eighteen eighties, and both these little ladies came to mean sat
down and had a cup of coffee with me and told me these amazing stories
and of some relative of theirs. They had this sighting in a great detail,
And I said, why do you know so much detail about it?
Says, Oh, everybody in our family knows the story. So there's this
whole family airboom thing. And it's amazing when you hear people talking about these
things. That is really interesting. That's uh, that's that's kind of a
modern kind of folklore type of thing. That's really interesting. Yeah, So
that's pretty much it. This comes more to tell maybe I can come to
come to the next IUOOC and give some really amazing flags. Yeah, that
would be really interesting, So send us some more info on that. Otherwise,
everybody can get the book at Amazon. Is that the best place to
go. Yes. The name of the book is the It's a UFO Sightings
Desk Reference and then the United States of America two thousand and one, twenty
fifteen. And if you google it, believe me, you'll come right to
the top of googling and you can order it from them and they'll have it
to you within seventy two hours typically perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you
so much for coming to the show again. I'll definitely rely on you when
you know, as time goes on, and I'm sure this data will reveal
more and more, and I'm sure you'll see more and more in this data
as time goes on. You did mention, actually what you're working on your
next project, and that is an international version of this book. Is that
correct? Yes, I've captured that data and it's not as clean. It
doesn't actually have a good country field. It was put in the same field
as the city. So I literally had to write some scripting code to separate
that out and build a new column. We're in the process of cleaning that
up right now. It's time consuming and we've been busy trying to get this
book launched and everything. But I am working on a I'm working on too.
I'm working on the international and we're working on doing a variant of the
same book, but do it where we literally can break It's called the Shapes
Manual and you can literally be reports for individual counties and their shapes. M
hm. Awesome, So it should be fun. Yeah, that will be
terribly interesting. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show,
but thank you so much for putting this data together because it is very very
important stuff, and you know, it's the type of stuff that some of
us researchers like, I'm good friends with some Robert Powell, Richard Hoffman,
some of the people you mentioned, and you know, we just eat up
and love this stuff. So this is really exciting. Thank you very much,
have me on again, all right, we'll do. Thank you so
much to Cheryl Costa for joining us once again on the shoe. She is
great. She's always a lot of fun. She's so full of energy and
so positive. I love speaking with her. She's she's inspiring. She gets
me excited about stuff again all the time. So it's always just fun to
talk with her, let alone about this wonderful new book that she has.
So remember that is the UFO Sightings Desk Reference United States of America two thousand
and one to twenty fifteen. It's one of those types of things where it
looks like what it is, you know, kind of a desk reference,
where it's something for you to look at. It's gonna go right next to
my governments and UFOs. That's something that you guys got to look up if
you haven't gotten it. Of course, that was done by a bunch of
authors, and it has government documents in it. So I'm gonna have both
of these together to get all of the data I need at my fingertips.
So, like your Costa said, go to Amazon and you can look up
UFO Sighting's desk reference and it will pop up. I think even if you
just go to Google. I went to Google and put Cheryl Costa Amazon and
it posts it popped up as well. So luckily that's how we find stuff
now. We go to Google and we search. I mean, URLs are
even like out the door, nobody cares about UFO dot com or something.
They're just gonna go Google, and that's how they will find it. If
you google open minds UFO News or something like that, you're gonna find us
or open mind ufo. You'll find us, and you'll find the news that
Martin and I talked about at the top of the show. And then you'll
also find a link when you go to this radio show at our web page
to the Amazon page. If for some reason you need help finding that.
I'm sure you're all be fine on your own, but yeah, and don't
forget to continue to check our daily headlines because we post UFO headlines every day
except for when I'm sick, and in those headlines usually on Mondays, you'll
see the story Cheryl posted on Friday, and that includes this Monday, which
is today. You can go in the headlines, and I think the very
first story is Cheryl's story for this week about flying saucers. So thank you
to Cheryl for being on the show and for everything that she does. Be
sure and follow her at Syracuse New Times and get her new desk reference.
Also thank you to Martin Willis for helping us at the beginning of the show
with the UFO news. And don't forget what I mentioned at the top of
the show, which is at five Simington interview that we posted last week.
I think it was Monday of last week, the only day I was in
the office. I was in the office Monday and Friday. But anyway,
go check out that video. It's free on YouTube. You can find it
at Openminds dot tv, or you can find it on our YouTube channel,
which is open Minds TV on YouTube. You could probably even just look up
five Summington and find it on YouTube. Since it's probably the latest video of
Summington up there. But yeah, go check that out and thank you so
much. I cannot think James Fox enough. First of all, I can't
thank of for his excellent documentaries out of the Blue and I know what I
saw. If you haven't seen those, go watch those. You can find
those online now too. You can find them on YouTube and all kinds of
places. Many people would agree, and I hear this often that those are
the best UFO documentaries you can find out there, pretty high praise. So
go check those out, and thank you so much to James Fox for coming
to the UFO Congress. He's a great speaker. He moderated a panel on
the Phoenix sites and he did a talk, a talk of which we have
up on the website. He brought witnesses from the Phoenix sites who others haven't
heard, you know, or you probably haven't heard often, and they saw
this thing go right overhead, so that you can see their discussion with him.
But that's up on our video on demand, so if you go to
the video portal from Open Minds dot tv, you'll find that. Also on
our video on demand portal. We have the new Richard Dolan video up.
So we just posted that like yesterday or something, so I haven't even really
told people much about that, so I'll be sending some information out about that.
And as I've told you guys before, it's five dollars a month for
the video portal. We don't charge for this show, we don't charge for
the news we post every day, we don't charge for practically nothing. So
if you go to our video portal and subscribe, first of all, we're
going to be very thankful. Well. Second of all, it's gonna help
fund us and help us keep rolling, so that's always a good thing.
Hopefully you enjoy what we do and I do, and I enjoy that you
enjoy it as well, and so I want you to keep going and I
want us to keep going. So please, you know, that would be
really great if you could subscribe to the video portal, and it's not like
it's just a donation and you're not gonna get nothing for it. In fact,
you're gonna have access to hundreds of videos from speakers like some of the
people we've talked about got multiple Richard Dolan on there, We've got you know,
Bob Lasar, and nobody else has got Bobblasar. We got Bob Lazar
on there. We've got several from George Knapp, We've got several from Charles
Hall, who we talked about the witness at the Rundel, from Forrest So
and many, many, many others. I'm just you know, some really
good stuff, so go check it out. But enough selling stuff to you
guys and more thanking you for all the cool stuff you do. But before
I thank you, I'm gonna thank someone else, Caleb Hanks for the excellent
music that he's provided for the open end close of the show. And now
it's your turn. Thank you for patiently waiting because I know you probably sit
up on this part and he's like, hey, hey, they're gonna thank
us. He's gonna thank me. He's gonna talk about how great I am,
because I do like to talk about how great you guys are. Because
my listeners are everything when it comes to this show, and I do have
some of the best listeners. Some of my favorite people in the UFO field
are listeners to my show. How cool is that? Thank you guys so
much for listening. And I apologize for missing last week for being sick and
stuff. Well, I shouldn't apologize for being sick. That's not like it's
my fault. But I don't know. That's what you do, right.
You apologize when people get mad at you for not doing what you want to
do, and that appeases them. So I hope you're appeased by my apology,
and I hope you enjoyed today's show, and I hope you join us
next week for another Until then, Audios moved tutos, no shimming sound,
the glass tries hollering