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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas. I am joining you
from my deathbed, just kidding, and

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I am here with Martin hebe Gb
Willis. Yeah, so I'm the real

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heb GB. I guess, I
guess, And from what you told me

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earlier, that's a bad thing.
So earlier for the listeners, you know,

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Martin said, I heard you had
the hebgb's. I'm not sure where

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he heard that. He can let
us know, but I told him,

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no, it was actually the flu, because I don't know that the hebgb's

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it's a real thing besides you,
your real thing. Well, you know,

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I think the hebgb's is is.
I thought it was like something,

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you know, microscopic, like you
got the hebgb's and so you got it

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came down with the flu. It
could be there could be some quantum level,

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the quantum HEBGB that manipulates your cells
and your body creating viruses just like

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a little bastard and you're yeah,
so that could be the whole root of

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sickness. So if you can,
you know, do quantum surgery, because

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it's fun to use the term quantum
and stuff that you don't know what it

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is to just say it's quantum,
you know. Yeah, there's nobody can

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prove you otherwise, so they can't
see it, they can't prove it.

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Yeah, so you could be onto
something. What do I know? That's

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right? Wow? Either way,
it was cute. It was a cute

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little EBGB thing you were doing there. All right, Hey, who's your

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guest today? Hey, great question. My guest today is Cheryl Costa.

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So yeah, she's got it,
Yeah, from New York. So she's

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got a new book out. Of
course, we're posting in our headline to

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one of her stories at least a
week because she writes for the Syracuse New

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Times about UFOs. So those of
you who have been following her postings are

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aware that she came out with a
new book. And it's called The UFO

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Sightings Desk Reference United States of America
two thousand and one to twenty fifteen.

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That may sound extremely boring, and
if you look at the cover, it's

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black and white, looks like a
drawing, an old drawing of a UFO.

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And I'm sure that may appear as
boring to some, but to weirdos

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UFO data Weirdos like me there's not
much more exciting. I mean, so

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she's going over the numbers, and
I'm a numbers guy. Maybe it comes

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from my background in the corporate world, where it's numbers, numbers, numbers,

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And I like numbers because even in
today's world, you know, when

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I'm doing the website and just so
open minds and the Congress can exist,

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you know, we've got to follow
the numbers and what's going on with all

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the numbers everywhere. So I love
numbers, and I love UFO numbers.

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So I'm very excited about her book
talking about sightings you know, all around

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the United States from twenty one to
twenty twenty fifteen, What sightings where when?

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That sort of stuff. So wow, that sounds like it would take

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a lot of research to do something
like that exactly. And wait a minute,

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was that just to did I just
hear a heb GB? Yeah,

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you know, I didn't. We
didn't even finish our HEBGB conversation. But

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to talk about her, if that's
what we'll be talking about, how long

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it took her to put together all
of this data and some of the exciting

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data she's found. And there's been
a ton of news stories about her book

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in particular, it's about California.
I don't know. I think we've talked

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about this in the headlines. You
can find a bunch of stories about her

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having California at the top of UFO
sightings, and we talked about that in

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detail in our interview here. Yeah. Well, you know, it is

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the number one state for sure for
sightings, according to her information. Yeah,

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where I had my sighting too,
where you had your sighting. Yes,

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wow, yeah, that's fair.
I think some people suspect that Californians

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are at least in part extraterrestrial.
I could, having living having lived there

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for a total of about ten years
or so, nine years one time,

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one year or another time, I
suspected that all along actually really interesting.

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Well, I wouldn't much prefer to
be around extraterrestrials, then, dare I

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say I'm going there? Then the
people in Arizona there are as a large

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amount of people of a particular political
persuasion that is not my own, and

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I'd rather be with the aliens.
But anyway, you went there, Yeah,

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okay, But yeah, so that's
what we'll be talking about in just

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a minute. Before that, I
just wanted to say I'm not going to

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apologize for having the hebgb's, as
Martin and would put it, But I

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did have a flu last week,
and so I was out and I have

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not been hit with a flu,
a full on flu for probably decades,

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and yeah, for a very long
time. Now I got I felt something

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coming on that was probably the flu
in the past. In fact, once

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a year maybe I feel that way, and I'll usually rest, and usually

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an evening of resting or maybe even
a day of resting gets rid of it.

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And that's the most I've had it, so I haven't had it full

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on, but yeah, I got
it full on, and it might be

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that I'm thinking I need to get
the shot, because I hear that even

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if you catch the flu, if
you get the flu shot, it's less

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severe. So yeah, maybe I'm
just getting old enough where you know,

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the hebgb's are just able to get
past my defenses. That's what it is,

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my aging defenses. That's right.
They quantumly sneak past. Oh that's

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right, they got that quantum crap, those little sunset so so, but

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I'm luckily I'm back and we've got
a show right when I'm back, So

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people ought to be happy so you
know, but you know, what can

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you do? But beyond that,
I'm gonna mute when I have to cough

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here. But that I guess.
Let's talk some UFO news, all right,

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Well, speaking of California, Well, I think I'm going to talk

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about this one here, and this
was back in I think it was February

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ninth, twenty seventeen. And this
is over Eureka, California, which is

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Humboldt County, which was home of
the marijuana growers from way back when.

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I'm not sure if that's really going
on up there is that where you remember,

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that's where you used to get your
stuff back there? Oh I never

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partaked, I only I never inhaled. Yeah, okay, good right,

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because anyway, so a rectangler shape
UFO flew over this town. According to

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this Eureka witness, he heard a
loud jet like sound and you know,

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which made him come outside and he
looked up and he saw this like a

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square type rectangular UFO with a bunch
of lights on it, and he did

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some sketches. It kind of looks
like Swiss cheese or something. But you

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can see the sketches that he did
on on the article. And so he

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couldn't figure out what this thing was. And he thought at first it was

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like a huge military cargo jet or
something, but it just couldn't be,

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you know, from what he is
describing. And he said to his wife,

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what is that? And she looked
to and you know, he told

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her to go hurry and grab her
binoculars, and and then this thing it

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starts speeding up, I guess,
and it looked further away, and he

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says it was very large and square, and possibly the shape of a home

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plate object. I wouldn't really call
that square rectangular. He's in a homeplate

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like a diamond shape. Yeah,
yeah, kind of. Yeah. Yeah,

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so we're talking almost maybe do we
dare say another triangle UFO. Perhaps

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although those pictures are square, they
are maybe he doesn't really know what a

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home plate looks like. Yeah,
it could be that geometry is not his

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strong suit. Yeah. Well I
bunked flyology too, so I'm sure he

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did well. Anyway, So the
lights, he thought they were sort of

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where the tail of a plane would
be. You know, it's not really

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making sense his report totally, because
you know, if this thing was square,

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I don't know why he think it
would look like a plane or maybe

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a baseball diamond or whatever. But
anyway, he saw something and he reported

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it and to move on, and
we don't have a case number. This

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was posted by Roger Marsh on your
website. Eureka is actually a really beautiful

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area in California. It's it's really
nice. It's pretty far north of San

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Francisco, but it's really a beautiful
area. I'm pretty sure. I go

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ahead. I'm sorry, No,
no, really, I just think again.

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I understand why there's a lot of
sightings in California because there's so many

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days of beautiful blue scot without any
clouds, So I get it. Why

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why it happens they are all the
sightings? Yeah, and that's really all

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I got. I was going to
say, that's where the Bigfoot sightings first

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got popularized, like the betting Hill
and Barney Cash of Bigfoot happened in Eureka.

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Where is it? Yeah? Did
you know that? No? Yeah,

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So, like there was this I
think they were, if I remember

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correctly, they were lumberjacks and they
were out there and there their stuff was

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being thrown around, their equipment broken, stuff like that, and they found

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a print and of what they they
coined Bigfoot, and you know, they

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showed the news and it's a famous
picture of the guy holding up the the

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the Humboldt County Times. I think
the paper is wow. I can't believe

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I can remember all this stuff.
And he's holding up the print of the

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Bigfoot, the cast of the foot, and uh, that made Bigfoot famous.

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All started out prior to the Patterson. Oh yeah, definitely, wow,

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that prior to Patterson. Yeah,
yeah, you have to look that

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up. Amazing. So a little
bit of Bigfoot history there too. You

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know what also's really exciting news?
What's that? Was that the Open Minds?

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Uh and they don't like it when
you call him the open Minds,

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but that Open Minds website posted an
exclusive video of five Simington. Did you

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watch that? I did watch that? Isn't that interesting? Yeah? I

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you know, I first saw this, this video of five Simington, So

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I should tell people what it is. Essentially, James Fox is the guy,

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well you guys have heard you guys
heard me interview hopefully years ago James

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Fox about all of this. But
James Fox, the guy who does documentaries.

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He did I know what I saw
and out a little Blue some of

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the best UFO documentaries. Well,
when he was doing the Phoenix Sights,

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he interviewed five Simington and some of
the Phoenix Sights witnesses. Simington, uh.

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He then played you know the witnesses
or Simonton's some audio of one of

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the witnesses and Simington said, well, you know I saw that thing too,

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and it was huge, and he
had a lot of really interesting things

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to say. Well, we've seen
we've heard about this, We've seen clips

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of his of him saying he saw
this, But now you get to see

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James Fox's entire interview, so you
get to see. That's what we posted.

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James Fox use this video in his
lecture at the UFO Congress this last

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year, and he also provided it
to us to post online so people can

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see the whole thing. And so
you see it starts off with Simington listening

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to the witnesses that and James Fox
is playing a tape of the witnesses saying,

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you know, we felt really crappy
when he made fun of us and

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that wasn't cool, dude. And
you see it. He even seems to

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get emotional. Did you see that? I feel like you did see it?

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Yeah, Yeah, it was really
something. Yeah, And then he

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says I saw it too, and
then he goes on to say some other

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things like the Pentagon knew and he
thinks that, you know, he was

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in the Air Force and this sort
of thing happened, and they were supposed

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to report these sort of things,
and and he says some really interesting things.

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I think in that video, I
do too, you know. I

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when I had I'm trying to think
who it was on my show. The

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woman you actually said she was a
wonderful person. The one that was involved

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in a Polish frantis Barwood, Thank
you God lost the name when I had

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her on. You know, there
were people in my chat room that were

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bashing, uh fight Simonton, you
know by this, you know, uh

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saying he was a felon and blah
blah blah, all this stuff, and

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I thought it was crazy, you
know. And then so I had one

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of the people in the chat room. I had them forward me whatever information

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that they were, you know,
coming up with, and nothing there was,

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you know, there was some type
of thing where he, uh,

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I guess, was filling out some
paperwork for something and and didn't disclose some

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and he had they kind of held
something over him. So there's Francis thought

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there was possibly something going on with
that why he did that whole thing as

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far as the alien coming out with
him and saying, you guys are taking

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this far too serious, you know, that type of thing. They think

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that he had pressure against him because
of that situation and why he did that.

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It would be interesting to know if
he ever talks about that. He

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has talked to people about that and
said, no, that's not the case,

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and not publicly though. This is
from what I understand I see of

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people who have asked him this same
thing in the background. No, I

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think that the real answer to me
makes sense and that he just wanted and

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I think that's at the heart of
this whole thing, kind of like what

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John Alexander talks about, is he
just didn't want any part of it.

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He wanted people to shut up so
they could get back to business and doing

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their regular job. And he's like, you know, how can I stop

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this whole thing and let's just move
on so I keep getting quick getting these

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stupid UFO questions and we can move
back just to regular business and get back

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to things. So, you know, that's what he said. He just

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wanted to kind of disarm the whole
thing too cool, like he says,

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to have everybody chill out and move
on. And so he made fun of

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it. And when it comes to
something that is where you just don't know

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what the hell it is, but
you're the person who's supposed to come up

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with an answer. You know,
I could see how people would be motivated

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by I don't know what it is. These things are stupid, so let's

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just move on, and I that's
it. It seems like an attitude a

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lot of people have, even in
the Air Force and certainly people I've talked

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to where they're like, I don't
want to be associated with UFO, so

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I'm not gonna report this or I
am going to report it. Charles Hall

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talks about this where he just,
you know, filled out the report.

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Let's move on, let's we don't
know what it is. Let's just move

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on with our lives. So I
think people a lot of people have that

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feeling in government, and so I
don't know, that's what he says.

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He says he certainly it didn't have
to do with the pressure that he had

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felt because he had some legal issues
like all politicians. I don't know as

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far as the people hate and it's
just you know, every little people just

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love to hate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you do see that.

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Unfortunately, you do see that a
lot online. Yep. But it does

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sound like he didn't get any support, so that probably had to make things

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even more difficult for him, and
that if he really was looking for answers

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and no one was helping him.
And that's essentially what happened to Francis.

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She was looking for answers and no
one, including Signmington's office, would help

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her. Amazing, isn't it It
is? And just to remind people,

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Francis Barward is a Phoenix City councilwoman. She was a councilwoman at the time.

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She heard about the signing a couple
of days after when a news reporter

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said, hey, don't you have
anything to say about this whole UFO situation

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and she's like, what are you
talking about? What UFO situation? And

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then she started to make inquiries,
spoke to something like seven hundred plus witnesses

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and she which was a credit to
her. She's just a great person and

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I interviewed her years ago. We
had her at the UFO congress also,

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and you can see her video on
our on demand section, and I really

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highly highly recommend everybody look at it
because she's she's I think, one of

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the greatest stories in the whole Phoenix
Sights. And they can go listen to

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your recent interview with her. Yes, I had so much positive feedback from

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listeners after I interviewed her, and
I interviewed a few other people that same

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show, and everyone said, oh, why didn't you just keep on with

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her? She was wonderful. Yeah, real nice lady and yeah, full

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of integrity too. Yeah, she's
great. So and she always sends these

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really nice notes. Yeah, she
hasn't been able to make the conference the

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last couple of years health issues,
even though she doesn't live too far away.

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She's in Sedona, I believe,
beautiful area out here, and so

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she'll send a note. I hope
you had, guys, had a great

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confidence or I couldn't make it.
And yeah, she's a wonderful person.

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Yes, absolutely all right, So
any more news, my friend that I

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can think of. No one's landed
on the White House lawn yet, no,

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Okay, well we can want to
keep our fingers crossed that that happens.

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I'll though I wouldn't recommend they go
there, right yeah, so maybe

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I choose another location they can come. You know, they visit the park

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across the parking lot here. It's
a beautiful park, it's a sunny day.

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That would be perfect. We would
add open minds, bring our cameras

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out and interview the alien. So
hopefully they come land there. They're going

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to have to be careful though,
because as we were starting the show that

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one of the kids playing football came
over and urinated. I don't think he

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knew that all of us in the
offices could see him, but he came

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over and urinated on this building over
in the park, So be careful of

250
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that. Yeah, and that'd be
perfectly ending spot for him. So there's

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my invitation. There you go.
Hopefully they'll hear it. Yeah, all

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right, Well, thank you so
much, Martin. You have a wonderful

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rest of your day. My pleasure, and thank you. I will,

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and let's go ahead and talk to
Cheryl. I am very happy to welcome

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back to the show Cheryl Costa.
Hello, Hi, How you doing good

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in Arizona? Sir? Oh,
so far so good. Things are doing

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pretty well, especially when you're not
sick. And this time of year,

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the weather out here is wonderful.
So's it's nice to be able to get

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out there. I think the big
problem is that you have a lot of

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what I call typhoid or flu mary's
if you know, fly out there.

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They they're not feeling well, and
then they take everybody else, you know.

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Yeah. Yeah, I've got a
spouse who works at a college library

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and all these kids, and so
she's bringing home something about every other week

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from the kids. You know,
I hear you so And speaking of whom

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Linda, I co wrote the book
with you. Yes, And I guess

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I getting down to a we all
know. At least I've spoken about you,

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and I think the audience knows.
And we've had you on the show

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before, right I'm sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talked last

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year. So people are familiar with
you and your work are my listeners.

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So what role did g Linda have
it in the book? Well? Two

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things. One, she's had a
ton of experience because she's we both lived

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in Washington, d C. And
she worked for various scientific organizations. So

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we wanted to lay the book out
like a scientific report. Okay, that's

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why we got such a boring cover, because she wanted to lay it out

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like something that might be on some
congressman's desk, you know, from some

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cabinet organization that does scientific work.
And that was her intent. In fact,

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if you go through the book right
now, it looks like I got

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to send you one I forgot about
that. If you go through the book,

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it looks like it was laid out
by the Census Department. And that's

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the context we wanted, and so
she was gonna do. She did layout,

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she acted as editor is again she
has that publishing background. But the

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other thing she did was she was
also she knew a lot of what I

283
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was doing, all the compiling of
all the state statistics, and every now

284
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and then she'd come over to me
and say, did you happen to notice

285
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this weird pattern? And I had
been so busy putting everything together, there

286
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.839
were times I didn't see something really
strange or really interesting, you know,

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And she pointed these things out to
me. Plus she helped write the first

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five chapters. We have narrative and
there before we get into the chapter,

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get into the actual statistics of each
state, which the average state has five

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five pages. A couple of states
like Texas and some of the really big

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ones that they have a lot of
counties have more, but that's pretty much

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00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:06.000
the deal. It's a three hundred
and uh it's almost a three hundred and

293
00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:11.799
seventy page book with everything. Mm
hm. So it seems like you're very

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proud of this book. We are, uh huh. And in your mind

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this this amounts to this is something
that you know a lot of people haven't

296
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:25.920
figured out yet. What we have
done for the first time ever is we

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have conducted a nationwide UFO census,
right and and for instance, I mean,

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what is it significant significant of that? Well, we can we can

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literally tell you. We have a
summary chapter. It's got all the stats

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for all the states, all kind
of summed up into a couple of charts

301
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on a couple of tables in the
front, about four or five pages.

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00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:56.240
That's just for the United States and
all fifty states and the district. Okay,

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00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.000
we didn't do any territories. We're
going to save the territories for an

304
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:07.000
the international book we have in their
works. The interesting thing is we've took

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00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:14.880
each state, did its it's full
numbers. It's it's a top ten counties,

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top ten shapes, and we can
literally drill down to the county level.

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00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:26.000
Now neither database new Fork or mofon. Neither one of them. Well

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Newfork doesn't collect county data and Moufon
does, but it's very highly dependent upon

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the person who's filling out the report. And you wouldn't believe how many people

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didn't know what county they were in, so are left blank. So we

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just went ahead and went by the
cities that we had, and when we

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were cleaning, doing what we call
scrubbing of the databases, we went ahead

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and we had a master city to
county list, and we went ahead and

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00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:00.640
serted county data for everything. And
there's three hundred twenty seven counties in the

315
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:06.200
United States, I'm sorry, three
thousand, twenty seven counties in the United

316
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:10.880
States. So this took a while, Yeah, a lot of work.

317
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How long have you been working on
this overall? Okay? The whole project

318
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took sixteen months. Okay, that's
pretty telling me. About ten to eleven

319
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:26.039
months to compile all the data.
And then in fact, in the book

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there's a we instead of doing a
an introduction, we did an FAQ okay

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to answer common questions, and in
the book we say fourteen months, but

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when we actually wrote that statement,
we ran into some snags in the layout

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00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.160
and things like this, and you
know, running a proof of the Amazon

324
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.200
and all that kind of stuff.
And by the time we got done,

325
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it was a total sixteen months so
and a lot of a lot of work.

326
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.799
Because I know, talking to you, you've been working on this.

327
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Has it been like a little bit
every day at least, certainly weekly at

328
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least. Yeah, Well, what
we tell most people is it basically chewed

329
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:08.079
up all but three weekends over the
last year and a half. Wow,

330
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:12.559
it was in the longer weekends,
you know. But you know when I

331
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.519
say all but three, there was
one where we were sick, sick on

332
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:19.400
our backs with the flu or something
like it for a day or two,

333
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.559
but it messed up the weekend.
And there were a couple of things where

334
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:27.359
there were some family obligations we had
to kind of go to. But so

335
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:30.920
I usually made up for some of
that during the week after work. But

336
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.880
at the time I had a very
high power job at a bank, and

337
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.039
the type I was doing similar type
of crunching at the bank at a very

338
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.599
high level, and so I was
usually pretty friede when it came home.

339
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.839
But I would do give you example, if I was crunching a state,

340
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and I was doing it during the
week I did something really small, some

341
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.880
some Midwestern state that didn't have a
lot of sightings. Because you're talking,

342
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.720
give me an example of stay.
I sat down, didn't New York State

343
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:06.119
the first time, and it took
me a weekend, a four day weekend

344
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:10.279
to do it. Was well,
it was almost close to five thousand records

345
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:17.000
California. I had to do over
two weekends because it was fifteen thousand records.

346
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:22.680
Whoa actually culture the sixteen thousand says
fifteen eight hundred and thirty five records,

347
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:26.279
So it was it was pretty crazy, and there were other little tweaks

348
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.759
we had to make here and there. But for the most part, towards

349
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.200
the end, as I was compiling, I did all most of the other

350
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:38.240
states, and I saved the top
ten states sorted to last because I they

351
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:41.640
were going a lot of time.
That's kind of how it worked out.

352
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So the sources for the data,
of course, i's move on what we

353
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:52.680
reference which is the largest investigative organization. The other large group is or a

354
00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.880
large reporting center would be the National
UFO Reporting Center. Were those your two

355
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:03.799
main sources of data? Yes,
I was most familiar with those two,

356
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.400
and frankly, while I did have
some people come to me later and tell

357
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:14.559
me there were other databases, I
wasn't really familiar with them. On the

358
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.640
other hand, I do write a
newspaper column and have been doing it for

359
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:22.440
three years. So I'm in a
national UFO Reporting Center and move On literally

360
00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:26.880
every week looking at things, you
know, so I had a good sense

361
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.200
for how they were laid out and
everything. The goofy thing about it is

362
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:38.680
is National UFO Reporting Center and was
about typically about sixty percent of the data

363
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:42.839
and move On was about forty percent. Some states it was seventy thirty.

364
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.599
There was one state it was like
eighty twenty, and there were three,

365
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:51.759
move On being the smaller. There
were three states that move On was the

366
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:56.319
dominant one. Okay, Texas was
one of them, amazingly enough, And

367
00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:02.759
so that was that was a key
thing to keep in mind, was that

368
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:07.160
there's different ratios in tech with every
state. When we do the little format

369
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:08.839
of the you know, the state
chart, and then we start breaking things

370
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:12.400
down, we do have a little
box towards the last page of each state's

371
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:18.440
worth the stats and we have a
breakdown It says, Okay, Newfork was

372
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:22.680
this move On was that gave the
number of the total number based on what

373
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:29.000
you're seeing in the report, and
then the percentages. Now we do a

374
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.680
summary of those. We do a
summary of those percentages in the front summary

375
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:36.240
of the book. Yeah, and
I would argue that those are the big

376
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.279
eats by far. So, I
mean, I think it makes sense to

377
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:45.240
focus on those two organizations the most
because, yeah, by far, they've

378
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:49.680
collected and interesting enough, Newfork's been
the advantage they've had. They've been online

379
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:56.519
longer than move On. In fact, your book ranges from twenty one to

380
00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:00.680
twenty fifteen. I don't think you
probably know exactly because you were working with

381
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:07.079
the data. Move On didn't get
their data online till what something like twenty

382
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.720
two thousand and seven. Yeah,
it was like two thousand and six,

383
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:18.720
two thousand and seven time frame.
They had a bulletin board system collection going

384
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:26.559
on in the late nineties, but
it wasn't it wasn't really online on the

385
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:30.000
web until, like you said,
around two thousand and six, two thousand

386
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.319
and seven time frame, and they
just did some major changes to it again,

387
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:40.319
so it's they're constantly trying to upgrade
it. The National UFO Reporting Center.

388
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:45.480
One of the things that was kind
of nice there is is because it

389
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:49.079
was all available online now, not
the confidential stuff, not a layer down

390
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:53.200
at the investigator level, but the
public level, which is all we used.

391
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:59.200
We only used the actual dates and
years, that type of thing,

392
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:04.799
the states, states, cities and
state and the shapes. That's all we

393
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.240
used. We didn't actually use we
didn't use the actual citing data. In

394
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.720
fact, there was a quite somebody
at move On race to stink about that,

395
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.759
oh my god, she did all
this stuff without permission, And we

396
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:20.119
explained that everything we did had been
given to us at a public level and

397
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.880
I didn't have deep access or anything
like that, and yeah, that was

398
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:27.279
all we're interested in. It's funny
how that happens, because that happens to

399
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:31.440
me too, because I'll usually compile
a yearly report of a high level overview

400
00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:36.480
of the stats of UFOs for the
year, and there's always those people saying

401
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:40.480
where they're getting access that everybody else
can't get, But no, I just

402
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:45.960
use Actually I used the monthly emails
that come out where MoveOn gives some stats

403
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:52.920
and it's just public information. That's
the beauty of Newfork keeping it simple that

404
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:57.720
it's a much easier job to cut
and paste that information into an Excel than

405
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:00.880
it is. Even though the move
on databasis very sophisticated and collect so a

406
00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:06.599
lot of different things, it's much
more difficult actually to access some of those

407
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:09.759
numbers. Well, you know what
was funny is I had some cooperation from

408
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:13.119
them. Initially I had a lot
of pushback, and I was having a

409
00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:17.359
lot of trouble getting getting the data. And then finally I got I got

410
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.400
some high level people and move on
talking to me. Linda sat down,

411
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:24.559
she's an executive, and I guess
she she got on the phone and did

412
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:32.119
some executive talk with him and Powell, Roger Powell. He shipped me.

413
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:37.000
He shipped me a file. Now
what the problem was? The file he

414
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:40.720
sent me did not have, like
the last man, I'm going to say,

415
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:45.640
the last three or four months worth
of twenty fifteen. So I had

416
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:51.319
to physically manually go in to the
website and look up each state for a

417
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:53.119
very narrow window of time. It
was a little time consuming. It was

418
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:57.000
one of those things I did every
night after work before so upper kind of

419
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.119
thing, and then I caught it
all up. If there's any holes in

420
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:04.880
the data. It's because I had
to go and gather the last quarter of

421
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.239
twenty fifteen that manual way. But
the stuff that he shared with me,

422
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:15.039
I scrubbed the stuff that they would
be touchy about. I scrubbed that right

423
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:20.719
out immediately and then started cleaning it
up and aligning that stuff so I could

424
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:23.800
suck it into the same database that
I had all the all the newfork data

425
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:30.880
in h So you talked about there's
over three thousand counties in the United States.

426
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:35.239
Does that mean do you feel then, like your book you can drill

427
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:43.800
down to that level and is there
are UFO sighting in every county. I'm

428
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:45.960
gonna say yes, No, I
just did an article in my columns.

429
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:51.039
Yeah, I saw that. Okay, there's three hundred counties that I've only

430
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:53.360
had one, the one what I
call one hit wonders. They had one

431
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:59.960
UFO sighting in the fifteen year window. A lot of them were in Texas

432
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:02.519
because Texas has like two hundred and
fifty six counties and some of them are

433
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:08.119
just out there, not much more
than sagebrush, you know, So that

434
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:14.480
that kind of like how it shook
out there. There are some now I'm

435
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:17.599
there may have been some we missed. If you look at a particular state

436
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:22.039
during that period of time, you'll
see, particularly some counties, you'll see

437
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.599
maybe only one or two sightings in
the fifteen years as you go across in

438
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:30.400
the book, we've got two thousand
and one in rows vertical rows two thousand

439
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.880
and one through twenty fifteen, and
then the counties are going down the side,

440
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:39.199
so you might look at such and
such county and maybe only see one

441
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:45.519
or two or three sightings scattered across
the fifteen years, you know. So,

442
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:49.199
like I said, everybody, I
did screen it all at one point

443
00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:52.519
to see if anybody didn't have one. And that was one of the points

444
00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:55.880
that Linda brought up. Every single
county that we measured had at least one.

445
00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.440
Wow. Yeah, And that was
a really creative idea to write a

446
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:08.280
story half out where are they're not
UFOs being reported? Yeah, my boss

447
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.719
gave it that title. I didn't
even know what to call it, but

448
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:15.880
where the UFOs are scarce? You
know? And it was it was interesting.

449
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:21.000
It was a total three hundred counties, the top ten where I listed

450
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:24.480
in the county and or listed in
the article, and uh, it's there's

451
00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:28.559
a couple more interesting ones where I'm
going to drill down look at the stuff.

452
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.639
You know, what happened that article
that there was about two weeks ago,

453
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:35.360
there was this huge amount of press
out on the West coast. Yeah,

454
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:44.119
two stories broke Washington State. I
had given them the Washington Seattle Post

455
00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:50.559
Intelligencer, they called SEATTLEPI. I
had pitched the story to them and they

456
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:54.400
liked it. So they got Jake
Ellison, who was a stringer for them,

457
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:58.719
to write the story and he had
it all done a good week and

458
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:02.000
a half, two weeks before we
physically released the book, and we were

459
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:07.360
still doing a proof thing with Amazon
at the time, so they decided to

460
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:10.599
sit on it until the actual book
was available so they could give a link

461
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:15.960
out to the Amazon site. And
then what I didn't know was, during

462
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:19.119
the course of the interview, who
asked me, well, what's the top

463
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:21.960
state? And I said it was
California, And he took a little bit

464
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.760
of information about California and he turned
around, did a similar article, except

465
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:29.679
more tune to California, and gave
it to sth Gate, which is the

466
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:35.280
San Francisco Chronicles online edition. Well
about halfway in the middle of the afternoon,

467
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.760
the day the article came out,
I get this phone call from a

468
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:45.159
producer at KBC seven to ninety talk
radio up there in La. He says,

469
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:47.199
yeah, can we have you wine
this afternoon? I said sure?

470
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:53.599
Why? He says, the story
came out in San Francisco Gate and social

471
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:59.079
media has gone is on fire.
Everybody's talking about it. California is number

472
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:01.519
one, you know, And that
was that's how all that went down.

473
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:07.199
It was amazing. That's really funny. Now, with California being number one,

474
00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:12.159
is it more of an issue of
population? Do you feel or do

475
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:16.480
you feel that perhaps even per capita, there are more sightings per person out

476
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:22.199
there? I would say there are. We did a in the book,

477
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:29.639
we did a thing about I did
an analysis based on population versus amount of

478
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:35.559
sightings within like the top ten states. And while there's a very large population

479
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:39.920
out there, you do. I
have two overlapping charts, and you can

480
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:46.440
see that the populations for the top
ten states all sit there in the in

481
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:52.639
this one little range, but California's
numbers are through the roof. I'll give

482
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:59.679
you an example. California's fifteen and
thirty five sightings. Okay, that is

483
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:07.920
twice Florida and Texas Florida seven seven
eighty seven and Texas when I think seven

484
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:12.760
thousand and fifty eight something like that, And so it's double at that point

485
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:16.320
when you get to the rest of
the top ten states. California is three

486
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:22.920
times what all the rest of those
states are now and their populations are still

487
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:27.719
pretty significant. New York states.
Hell, we're almost twenty million here.

488
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:32.599
So it's interesting and I, you
know, haven't been in this and written

489
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:37.000
about it for a while. What
are your thoughts as to why that is

490
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:45.800
the case. Why is what the
case that California has so many sightings compared

491
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:52.599
to elsewhere. Well, that's that's
what bothered me for a little bit,

492
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:59.719
particularly southern California. Okay. I
did a little bit of research here and

493
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:05.079
I had to do was I had
to. I went out and this is

494
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:08.800
about a week ago, and I
did this for just a couple of states.

495
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:15.239
I wanted to see what the deal
was, and I determined that there

496
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:22.000
were you know how they talk about
that thirty seventh parallel of the thirty seven

497
00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:30.440
degrees latitude. Well, I managed
to go out and get latitude information for

498
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:35.840
the cities in these different states.
Okay, and I took out at the

499
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:38.360
time to make things easier. I
only put it in the top ten states,

500
00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:43.920
and I only did it for the
thirty seventh thirty seventh degrees, you

501
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:50.199
know, and everything within thirty seven
degrees, and California had a significant number

502
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:54.199
of its counties were in the thirty
seven degree. Thing. I got to

503
00:40:54.280 --> 00:41:01.039
qualify this correlation does not mean causality. Okay, Okay, that's coming from

504
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:06.599
Linda, who always tells me this. Now, one other thing you should

505
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:13.360
know what surprised me is LA.
Now, LA by itself was thirty two

506
00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:19.280
hundred twelve three thy two hundred and
twelve sightings in that fifteen year window.

507
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:25.800
It was more than forty individual states
by itself, Okay, which is interesting.

508
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:30.480
Now, I didn't know this,
this little fact. I was watching

509
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.119
one of these, you know,
one of these you know, you know

510
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.480
there's a ton of channels and hired
channels that are running all kinds of UFO

511
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:40.639
documentaries, okay, and I saw
this one I had never seen before,

512
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:49.000
and they indicated that LA had been
seeing UFOs since before we had manned flight.

513
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:53.159
They had squads of these things being
seen in the eighteen eighties, eighteen

514
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:59.599
nineties, okay, and at the
turn of the at the turn of the

515
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:06.360
twenty century, so the La Basin
area has been a hotbed for it for

516
00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:09.880
well over one hundred years. Mm. Well, that surprised me, and

517
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:13.760
I do not do a little bit
of researching. Oh yeah, that's the

518
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:16.679
deal. So when I was talking
to KABC, I pointed that backed out

519
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:23.280
and you'd be surprised how many people
there in LA didn't know this interesting I've

520
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:29.159
also found it, and I wonder
if your numbers demonstrated this as well,

521
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:34.960
which may explain some of this Southern
California part of it. More specifically,

522
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:42.760
is that per person, it seems
like the Southwest itself, the Southwest states

523
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.280
have a lot of are really high
on the list. For example, Arizona

524
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:52.280
and Colorado have always been on really
high on my list as far as UFOs

525
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:59.519
per person. So it's kind of
seems like the Southwest United States is a

526
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:01.760
hot sp that kind of area.
Is that? Do your numbers show that

527
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:06.880
you think? Yes, yes,
I'll give you. I'll give you the

528
00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:09.760
real number here in a moment,
I have a copy of the book here

529
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:15.280
in front of me. All right, California, of course was number one.

530
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:22.559
Arizona is number seven in the country. Okay, And as we dig

531
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:28.239
down a little deeper, I mean
we'll hear Colorado's number twelve. So yeah,

532
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:30.719
this is this is a big deal. Okay. So out of fifty

533
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:36.880
states, Colorado ranks number twelve,
and of course Arizona ranks number seven,

534
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:45.440
and there was there's there's something interesting
about both those states. Maricopa County there

535
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:55.840
in Arizona is number two to Los
Angeles County. Really wow, yeah yeah,

536
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.280
just so people know that is like
the most populous county here. That's

537
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:06.320
the Phoenix area. That's where I'm
at right now, right, should I

538
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:10.920
be worried? Well, I don't
know. Give you an example of the

539
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:20.480
Maricoopa County had twenty five twenty two, five twenty three for the fifteen year

540
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:27.000
sample period and as compared to three
thousand and thirty two twelve for LA.

541
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:30.280
That's a big deal. They're number
two in the country. And that was

542
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:32.360
the weird thing. I was trying
to pitch it to the newspaper down there.

543
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.679
Did you guys are like number two
in the country, Just find your

544
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:43.119
own in your head of like thirty
five states. They weren't interested, which

545
00:44:43.159 --> 00:44:45.360
is funny unless it's tied to and
maybe I can plug. I'm going to

546
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:51.639
be doing a ton of media this
weekend next week in the local media because

547
00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:57.119
of a new movie about it's very
loosely based. It's a horror movie,

548
00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:00.639
but that they're basing it off the
Phoenix Lights. And if you could that's

549
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:06.360
the news here loves the Phoenix Lights
UFO phenomena. And so if you mentioned

550
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:09.719
Phoenix Lights then they get excited.
That's that's a for you as a clue

551
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:14.800
how it might help you get in. But I'll mention that your book,

552
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:17.119
and I'll mention that when I do
these interviews, because this movie is coming

553
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:21.519
out, so they all want to
do interviews about the Phoenix Lights. So

554
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:28.159
that's that's one of the things they
love the Phoenix Lights out here. Yeah.

555
00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:31.440
Well, when I when I reached
out to a Fox station there,

556
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:37.599
I think it was Fox ten,
and I reached out to the Arizona Republic.

557
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:40.800
I my pitch was hey, and
this was like three weeks ahead of

558
00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:45.760
the anniversary. I said, Hey, you've got the twentieth anniversary of the

559
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.519
Phoenix Lights coming up. How would
you like some current stance, you know,

560
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:54.559
the mind blowing stance. And the
producer Fox ten kept selling yeah,

561
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:57.119
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to use it. And

562
00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:00.800
then by the time they got around
the talking to me, they already there

563
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:06.159
were already four four and a half
minutes worth of news story and they decided

564
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:09.320
not to use any of it.
Yeah, which is turned shame because you

565
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:15.280
know, I love hearing about things
that happened twenty years ago and everything.

566
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:17.719
But what's happening now. I'm sorry, I'm in the news business. That's

567
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:22.840
old news. Yeah, I hear
you, And usually that's what the news

568
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:25.880
wants, is what's happening now?
What's happening now? But I don't know

569
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:30.519
people, as you know, in
this field, the media can be really

570
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:35.480
weird. Do you never know what's
really going to get them excited or motivated

571
00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:40.599
to do something serious about the topic. Have you had other successes though,

572
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:45.480
I mean, California went crazy,
like you said, tons and tons and

573
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:51.639
tons of stories on your book and
about how you found California to be number

574
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:55.239
one? I know. I've seen
a few others though, media outlets who

575
00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:00.239
have also kind of picked up and
wanted to do stats in their areas.

576
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:05.920
Wow. Well, actually most of
them are just reprinting variants of the of

577
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:09.480
the story, the California story.
Because the California story mentioned the top ten

578
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:14.400
states, none of them have actually
reached out to me. Now that that

579
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:21.880
said, I'll say I'll say it
this way. The Gannet people who own

580
00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:28.920
USA Today and a whole bunch of
other regional newspapers. I originally pitched them

581
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:34.000
back around all three weeks before Phoenix
Lights as well, and I was a

582
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:37.239
couple of weeks out from releasing our
book. So I was out pitching the

583
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:40.599
people and they blew me off.
They were polite about it, but they

584
00:47:40.639 --> 00:47:45.079
said now, not now. And
then after that stuff went in California,

585
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:52.079
suddenly they've taken an interest. Same
thing with a news outfit in the New

586
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:54.800
York City area, because I went
to them and pitched Long Island and they

587
00:47:54.800 --> 00:48:00.840
were a Long Island news outlet,
and because in the Long Island Suffolk County,

588
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:05.000
Long Island is number one in New
York State. Now in the Ufolk

589
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:07.679
community, you let everybody talk,
Oh pine Bush, New York. You

590
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:10.400
know that's where the capital of UFOs
are. There's I'm gonna tell you tight

591
00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:15.239
the truth. Five other counties have
far more UFO sightings than Pine Bush does.

592
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:20.920
Really, Yeah, that's their hype. You know, they got a

593
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:23.559
festival, they got to hype it
up. But it's a bubba burster unfortunately.

594
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:28.360
But it's it's kind of an anecdotal. Since they're known for it,

595
00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:30.599
I guess they look more and then
they see stuff and it makes news.

596
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:36.360
But it's all about the numbers.
Yeah. Well, I wrote an article

597
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:39.199
of about a little about a year
ago. I had already done the New

598
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:43.440
York state numbers, and I said, you know, if we're ever going

599
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:46.639
to have a New York State conference
UFO conference, it ought to be done

600
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:51.599
in Suffolk County, Long Island,
because that is the that is the hotspot

601
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:58.400
for state and that's kind of where
it went. But it's there's been amazing

602
00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:02.000
numbers here, amazing staff I.
At one point we did in our analysis

603
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:06.679
we didn't have an easy way to
break this down into regions of the United

604
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:10.480
States, so we use standard stuff
from the Census Department. We use Census

605
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:15.639
Department maps, Census Department regions and
divisions. It may compact. All the

606
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:21.960
government agencies use that, so we
figured let's do that too. That's how

607
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:25.280
we managed to break it down.
So it's a really really it's an eight

608
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:30.360
and a half eleven by book.
And when I gave my mother her copy,

609
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:32.000
she looked at this thing. He
says, my god, this is

610
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:39.880
a lethal weapon. Yeah, it's
a thick book. So what about surprises?

611
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:45.599
Were there some surprise that you came
across looking at the numbers? Yeah,

612
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:51.079
okay, I'll give you one right
off the bat. People come to

613
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:53.000
me and say, oh, UFOs, they all got to be up in

614
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:58.320
Alaska. No, UFOs, they
all got to be in the desert.

615
00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:01.960
Well, which part of the Yeah, you know, if they're in Phoenix,

616
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:07.039
yeah, absolutely, it's through the
roof. But there's other places now

617
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:10.000
it's not there. Well, what
about the nation's capital, Washington, d

618
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:15.800
C? Bottom of the freaking list? Yeah, there was not much there.

619
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:22.559
But okay, what you have to
do is remember Washington is a business.

620
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:30.440
It's only a twenty square mile area. Everybody lives in Maryland and Virginia

621
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:37.320
and Delaware okay we call del Marva
okay, And so everybody just lives around

622
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:45.119
it. So most of the sightings
we think that we're probably associated with Washington,

623
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:52.440
d C probably were reported in the
in the Delaware, Maryland, Virginia

624
00:50:52.679 --> 00:51:01.760
bedroom communities. That makes sense.
Another surprise, I did a posting in

625
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:08.840
the UFL groups over the weekend where
I had a screen shot from a nineteen

626
00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:16.599
forty nine declassified CIA document that was
from the Office of Scientific Investigation, where

627
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:21.440
doctor so and so and doctor so
and so we're discussing this, and one

628
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:24.599
of the bullet points was, has
anybody noticed that there seems to be a

629
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:30.559
seasonal pattern? And he had kind
of little little pattern, little chart down

630
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:35.880
there with twenty five or thirty sighting
dots going across it, and he had

631
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:37.320
a little question at the bottom of
the page. Know what is this some

632
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:40.719
kind of summer madness or something,
you know, something to dat effect.

633
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:45.440
This is in nineteen forty nine,
we're talking sixty eight years ago. All

634
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:51.000
right, Well, I didn't see
it. I had seen this pattern in

635
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:53.280
New York State. Okay, it's
kind of low in quiescent, you know,

636
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:58.519
five ten sightings January, February,
March, April, ticks up just

637
00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:01.800
a tiny bit. May, it's
ticking up June, July and August.

638
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:06.440
It goes to the rough big hump
there, Okay, July and August in

639
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:09.519
the high season, and then starts
taking back down again and levels off when

640
00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:14.079
you get out around November and December
the same kind of numbers that January have.

641
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:17.320
Well, we thought that that was
what the pattern was. And everybody's

642
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:22.280
common logic, what I'm gonna call
it, common horse sense logic says,

643
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:25.480
well, in summertime, more people
are out in the summertime, it's nice

644
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:30.280
weather. Okay, all right,
What if I told you it was latitude

645
00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:37.400
dependent, that'd be weird. I
didn't know this. Linda was laying putting

646
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:39.519
the thing together, and at one
point she says she'd already done about twenty

647
00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:44.239
of the states, and she says, if you noticed this pattern, because

648
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:47.639
at the end of the state books, I did the UFOs by months,

649
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:52.880
a goofy little jar I did him
by months and a lot of a couple

650
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:54.639
of people, and he said,
why are you even bothering listening him by

651
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:58.800
months? No, that's great.
I love that. And you did that

652
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.920
for every saint, every state,
because I think I would love to see

653
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:07.599
Arizona. It might be the opposite, because everybody's inside in the summer actually

654
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:10.880
in Arizona because we're running, we're
hiding from the heat. Like you told

655
00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:15.199
me that. You told me that. But there's one other goofy thing about

656
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:17.960
the whole thing. All right.
If you're up in the states kind of

657
00:53:19.079 --> 00:53:25.360
like Maine, which is kind of
paralleled a lot of Canadian countries, the

658
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:36.559
sightings pick up around August and trail
off slowly in the fall. Okay,

659
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:39.679
it a little further down to New
England and down to about like New York

660
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:44.719
State, Pennsylvania, go across the
Michigan and everything, and you got your

661
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:49.800
little hump in the middle there June, July, August, some degree September.

662
00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:54.280
Okay, nice big peak. You
get down around Virginia and West Virginia,

663
00:53:54.920 --> 00:54:00.840
that bump in the middle starts flattening, starts coming down. When you

664
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:07.960
get into the deep South and Southwest
states, the sightings per month are statistically

665
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:14.079
flat, not physically flat, but
they're statistically flat. Now that lee's more

666
00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:16.960
weight to the fact that the weather's
nicer down there, yeah, okay,

667
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:24.000
year round, okay. And Arizona's
like that, Florida's like that, Texas

668
00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:30.719
is like that, Southern California is
like that. So too. Yeah,

669
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:37.599
that's really interesting though, But at
least you're confirming by numbers that, you

670
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:43.000
know, the nicer the weather,
the more consistent, more consistent the weather,

671
00:54:43.360 --> 00:54:47.320
the more consistent the UFO sightings.
Okay, now the only two places

672
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:57.639
that completely falls apart, Alaska and
Hawaii. Alaska has all their high sightings

673
00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:02.480
through the winter months November, December, January, February, March and starts

674
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:08.239
coming down and gets down to around
April. Those numbers are falling and during

675
00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:19.440
the June July August time frame it
bottoms out. I wonder if there's a

676
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:24.679
correlation with daylight, because they have
the longer days. That's what we figured.

677
00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:28.960
When a most people see things,
they see him typically at night,

678
00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:31.719
you know, and and what have
they got at that time and that time

679
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:38.679
of the season, white nights,
And so that's that's the only correlation we

680
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:44.800
could make sense of with they see
more UFOs because it's dark all the time

681
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:49.000
during the winter months, but during
when the summer months come, it's daylight

682
00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:52.079
all the time. There's nothing to
see, yeah, or very little.

683
00:55:53.400 --> 00:56:05.559
And then Hawaii, Hawaii, Hawaii
has thesely bumps. And I'm checking it

684
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:13.519
out with the travel agencies. Our
first guess is these are periods for people

685
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:20.280
traveling to Hawaii quarterly intertuff for everything
for weddings and vacations or something like that.

686
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:22.840
There must be what they call hot
seat travel seasons, you know,

687
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:28.039
And that's what we that's what we
think the deal is. It's like Florida

688
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:31.440
to some degree, Florida. All
those snowbirds go down to Florida the winter

689
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:36.119
time, winter, you know,
and so we see a little bit of

690
00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:39.599
bump there, you know, for
the winter months. And so that's what

691
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:45.960
we think might be the deal.
Who knows for sure. That's very interesting

692
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:52.800
though, quarterly bumps. Yeah,
it's wild, wild, and it's all

693
00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:58.039
over the place. But then again
it might just be an artifact of reporting.

694
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:07.920
The people who are reporting are seeing
things they're probably visiting and this is

695
00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:12.199
the first time, maybe they live
in a big city or something like this.

696
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:15.800
This first time they've actually been out
on a nice temper at night,

697
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:20.519
and that doesn't in a place that
doesn't have huge amount of light pollution.

698
00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:24.960
That's what we think. And so
we're not one hundred percent sure what the

699
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:30.320
numbers really should be for Hawaii,
but everything that we had from both databases

700
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:36.159
has this quarterly has this up and
down quarterly bump type thing going on.

701
00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:43.119
And then there's one last really weird
surprise. Okay, two things we noticed

702
00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:52.239
with the monthly and I did a
summary of everything February nationwide is the lowest

703
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:58.559
sighting month in the entire country.
Interesting lower, It is lower by about

704
00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:01.400
three percent than any other any other
month, at least three to five percent,

705
00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:10.079
okay minimum. And the other thing
we noticed was yeah, well there

706
00:58:10.119 --> 00:58:13.719
you go, there you go.
Yeah, and you know, amazically enough

707
00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:15.440
even for being out in the desert
like it is, most of us are

708
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:20.280
now outside looking at the sky,
you know. Some Yeah, we're either

709
00:58:20.599 --> 00:58:25.000
inside or we're engrossed in discussing UFOs
with each other. You bet, you

710
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:30.000
bet. Now. The other last
one that we had that was really an

711
00:58:30.039 --> 00:58:32.320
eye opener was, in fact,
I wrote it up in the book.

712
00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:37.840
When I was discussing the seasonal pattern
in my analysis, I wrote up one

713
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:40.559
of the last things. I could
not let it go. I said,

714
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:46.360
we had to talk about New Mexico. New Mexico has the characteristic statistically flat

715
00:58:47.400 --> 00:58:54.760
sightings for all the months except for
September. September spikes huh, September never

716
00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:00.920
Yeah, And I literally say in
the book, if any bloody knows what's

717
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:05.000
going on in September, will they
please let me know? Have you heard

718
00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:09.639
anything? No? No, I
haven't heard anything yet. But there aren't

719
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:14.119
that many copies of your book out
there's probably fifty or one hundred copies of

720
00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:16.760
the book out there in circulation right
now. So I'll wait for somebody to

721
00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:22.000
come back and tell me. But
it was like the numbers were like three

722
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:28.480
four times the rest of that flat
flatness exciting. Wow, that is really

723
00:59:28.519 --> 00:59:31.400
strange. That's really interesting. So
hopefully maybe some listeners will have some insight

724
00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:36.880
as to what's going on in New
Mexico in September. Now, I spent

725
00:59:37.119 --> 00:59:38.840
quite a bit of time out there. My mom lived out there. Wait

726
00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:43.000
a minute, isn't that that's Roswell
State, isn't it? That is Roswell

727
00:59:43.079 --> 00:59:50.960
State. But Roswell the event itself
was in July. The convention for it

728
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:57.280
is in July. Yeah, late
June, early July. So so yeah,

729
00:59:57.559 --> 01:00:01.239
what the heck? Huh uh?
That threw a curve. That really

730
01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:07.039
threw us a curve. Yeah,
that is a weird one September. Yeah,

731
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:09.239
so I can't think of anything.
And I love New Mexico. That's

732
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:13.360
one of my states, I mean, because like I said, my mom

733
01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:16.760
lived there and I would go out
there a lot. Uh So, Colorado,

734
01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:22.360
New Mexico, Arizona kind of my
and then California are my states of

735
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:27.320
residents that I visit or have family
and that I love the most. I

736
01:00:28.159 --> 01:00:31.920
love New Mexico and I've had I
had a wonderful time a couple of times

737
01:00:31.960 --> 01:00:35.920
I went out there. I spent
like about three weeks out there once.

738
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:38.079
Well okay, well, well let
me let me qualify that. Okay,

739
01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:44.639
the average monthly thing was sitting around
one hundred sightings a month, okay,

740
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:49.199
and it goes up that for that
one month, it goes up, and

741
01:00:49.239 --> 01:00:52.480
for October is slightly elevated. It
goes up to almost two hundred sightings per

742
01:00:52.519 --> 01:01:00.079
months. It's like a hundred and
then the October is October is a one

743
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:02.159
hundred and thirty eight. But the
rest of them are all sitting around one

744
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:07.519
hundred hundred and twenty. And it
just blew me away. Now what I've

745
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:10.440
been tempted to do when I get
a little bit of time, I'm thinking

746
01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:15.119
about putting a map of New Mexico
up on the wall and again go into

747
01:01:15.159 --> 01:01:21.519
the county charts and see if there's
a dominant county or cluster counties where this

748
01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:27.639
stuff is going on. That's the
next piece of exploration. But I couldn't

749
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:29.760
do all this. I've had a
lot of people say, well, why

750
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:32.400
didn't you do more research? And
I said, it took me almost eighteen

751
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:37.679
month compile the data, you know, And then that's why we made this

752
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:40.679
for other people. We made this
for scientific research. We made this for

753
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:46.119
people who are interested in it,
people who are in people who are move

754
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:51.159
on investigators, or any kind of
investigators out there, armchair investigators. Me.

755
01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:55.199
Hey, I'm an armchair investigator.
Computers, libraries is where I do

756
01:01:55.320 --> 01:02:00.320
my work. I do not march
around in farmer's fields with cow pitty take

757
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:06.000
some barb ware. And you know, that's what this great. This book

758
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:10.320
is great for and it's one of
the things that I think everybody in this

759
01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:20.519
field, serious researchers always feel that
is lacking is enough statistical research because we

760
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:22.920
have the data, but it takes
so much and there's not a lot of

761
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:29.320
people going through and putting together the
data like you are because it is so

762
01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:36.400
laborious. It takes a lot of
work. So that's what's great about what

763
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:38.559
you've done. Because as soon as
I get my copy, which I'm very

764
01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:45.119
excited for, I'll be referencing that
probably on a weekly basis. Yeah,

765
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:50.840
the two guys who I know.
You know, doctor Gordon Spear. He

766
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:58.119
comes to i UFO C religiously.
He retired astronomer from Sonoma University. Him

767
01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:04.880
and Rich Hoffman, Alabama chief investigator. They did the forward for the book

768
01:03:05.599 --> 01:03:10.199
great and the thing that they both
were excited about, particularly doctor Spear,

769
01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:19.800
is somebody finally did big data crunching. Even Project Bluebook only had twelve thousand

770
01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:22.760
sightings to work from. We had
one hundred. Okay, here's the big

771
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:27.679
number for your listeners, one hundred. And the press from that California article

772
01:03:27.719 --> 01:03:30.079
said over one hundred and twenty thousand. The real number is one hundred and

773
01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:37.119
twenty one thousand and thirty six,
and for that fifteen year window, and

774
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:43.679
the number is increasing, and we've
allowed, we've made certain adjustments, We've

775
01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:47.760
watched certain things. There are some
artifacts of reporting where certain things happen,

776
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:52.360
like on the Muffon stuff. Around
two thousand and eight, somebody did a

777
01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:58.639
Discovery channel, somebody did a documentary
about Moufon, and their numbers jumped.

778
01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:01.960
And then you look a new fork
and it goes along on trend, but

779
01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:10.239
Moufons jumps up about and it levels
out into a trend you know, so

780
01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:14.599
there are and then there's an artifact
of reporting. With twenty twelve, everybody

781
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:17.599
was overly conscious with the end of
the mine calendar and all this kind of

782
01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:21.559
stuff. There was a high level
of awareness and there was an astronomical jump

783
01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:28.519
that year nationwide. The thing is
is that if you look at anybody whoever

784
01:04:28.599 --> 01:04:32.599
looks at the UFO numbers from year
to year, there's like about a six

785
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:39.639
seven year humpy cycle. They kind
of hump along like little waves on the

786
01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:43.519
ocean. And if you look carefully
at the chart, you'll see that that

787
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:47.440
those those humps kind of even as
it's going up in intensity, except for

788
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:50.280
that one year it seems to be
spiking. But if you kind of draw

789
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:56.119
that curve right through that line,
you see it starting to go into a

790
01:04:56.159 --> 01:05:00.199
downward hump. So, you know, everything seems to be consistent, wouldn't

791
01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:03.280
the thing? Somebody was bugging me
about here recently, and this is one

792
01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:05.880
of the skeptics. He said,
well, it's all crack, pops and

793
01:05:05.960 --> 01:05:12.639
nuts, he says to me.
And this is a guy I knew working

794
01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:15.239
for the bank. I have since
retired. I retired on Valentine's Day.

795
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:21.480
Congratulations, Thank you, Thank you. In fact, that my spouse,

796
01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:27.639
Linda made a very big point of
making that a She literally called me up

797
01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:31.760
at work on Valentine's Day said I
am giving you a Valentine's Day present,

798
01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:34.840
and it is take this car and
take this job and shove it card.

799
01:05:38.519 --> 01:05:42.079
And about an hour later, I
literally put my laptop on my boss's desk,

800
01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:45.840
took my badge off and said,
I've had enough. Buy awesome,

801
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:50.239
but the deal is oh well,
the thing before I talked that, I

802
01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:55.119
went off that man mine. Oh
the cooks and nuts thing, Yeah,

803
01:05:55.960 --> 01:05:59.840
I get this lot. I had
a TV station here locally talking to me

804
01:06:00.039 --> 01:06:02.079
last week. Okay, well,
how do we know these numbers are credible?

805
01:06:02.119 --> 01:06:05.639
They're not all coups and nuts,
that's literally the quote. Well,

806
01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:10.440
what we found going through the records, we found that it was barely two

807
01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:14.679
percent. Okay. For one,
most people just want to get it off

808
01:06:14.719 --> 01:06:18.039
their chest, you know, they
just want to get it off their chest.

809
01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:21.400
And you can tell that, you
can see, you can hear the

810
01:06:21.480 --> 01:06:25.800
sincerity in what they're in, what
they're saying, how they write it up

811
01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:31.159
okay. And the other thing was
I pointed, oh, I don't even

812
01:06:31.159 --> 01:06:36.519
want to say this. This is
going to be good. This is going

813
01:06:36.599 --> 01:06:42.400
to be juicy if you're trying well. The bottom line is is that it's

814
01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:45.000
not all coops and nuts. It's
very sincere people. So one of the

815
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:48.440
arguments we made in the book that
we have a chapter in the book called

816
01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:55.639
one thirty six Eyewitness of Reports,
and it takes that line to one of

817
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:58.719
your speakers at I UFO C had
a couple of years ago this said,

818
01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:04.679
except for UFOs, unless you have
forensics evidence, I wouldn'ts testimony can get

819
01:07:04.719 --> 01:07:09.760
you convicted in every court in this
country. You know, the why doesn't

820
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:12.519
apply here, you know. And
that's where we kind of made our little

821
01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:16.639
statement about disclosure. But this is
the thing that we saw consistently is most

822
01:07:16.679 --> 01:07:23.039
people were very Most people were very
sincere. The people I have met doing

823
01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:28.079
a columnists where I've had families invite
me over to a I don't do this

824
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:30.559
a lot, but every now and
then I'll get invited to a backyard barbecue.

825
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:34.079
I'll go over there and I'll introduce
myself. Oh yeah, yeah,

826
01:07:34.159 --> 01:07:38.639
yeah, we want you to meet
uncle, uncle bral or aunt Mabel she

827
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:43.239
saw UFO. Yeah. So you
sit down with them and they look like

828
01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:46.119
combat veterans. When you talk to
them, if they really are telling you

829
01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:48.599
the truth, you can see it
in their eyes. They are living it

830
01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:55.320
again, right, And I see, I've seen this time and time and

831
01:07:55.360 --> 01:07:59.480
time again. And this is when
I tell these guys that these tv sactions

832
01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:01.800
are being all callous about this.
And I said, like, everybody I

833
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:06.159
talked to is giving a sincere report, and there's no place to report this

834
01:08:06.199 --> 01:08:11.400
stuff. The Air Force hasn't been
doing since sixty eight. The local newspaper

835
01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:14.119
I talked to them, they say
they get seven reports a week, but

836
01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:17.039
they blow everybody off as a nut. The cops they write it down on

837
01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:20.840
the blodder, but unless it's a
risk to health and safety, they don't

838
01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:25.039
pay any attention. Yeah, you
know, I went and checked these things

839
01:08:25.039 --> 01:08:29.399
out, I said, so we
And oh another reason we did this for

840
01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:33.000
two thousand and one to twenty fifteen. Remember in two thousand and one,

841
01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:36.039
after nine to eleven, they said
report what do you see? M hm?

842
01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:41.399
So that's we took that tone in
here too. Hey, we were

843
01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:43.760
asked to report what we see.
Well, this is what one hundred and

844
01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:47.680
twenty one thousand people reported, right, Yeah, I mean when I became

845
01:08:47.680 --> 01:08:55.760
a movefine investigator. My first case
was a security guard who is just back

846
01:08:55.840 --> 01:09:01.119
from the Middle East, and he
was in that mindset report what you see,

847
01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:05.159
very very credible witness. In fact, all of the cases I got

848
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:11.159
that where I spoke to people that
people were very credible and very normal.

849
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:20.159
They weren't coops and weirdos. There
was a reporter asked me, the guy

850
01:09:20.199 --> 01:09:27.239
from the SEATTLEPI asked me, he
says, who's the most common person to

851
01:09:27.319 --> 01:09:30.960
report these things? I said,
well, I said, for my observation,

852
01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:38.039
and after talking to some moof one
and its people taking the dog for

853
01:09:38.079 --> 01:09:42.079
a walk before bedtime, people taking
going out for a smoke and taking the

854
01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:44.279
dog for a walk, or just
people going out on the back porch for

855
01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:47.720
a smoke. Yeah, exactly.
And that was the most common thing we've

856
01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:54.479
saw through the whole database, was
this constant, this continuous flavor of story.

857
01:09:54.760 --> 01:09:58.600
And then motorists and then everything else. You know. So this has

858
01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:01.399
been an eye opening I don't want
to call it a spiritual experience, but

859
01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:05.920
it has been a rush to do
these. It would be some money.

860
01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:12.399
There were so many times I would
get done with the state and when I

861
01:10:12.479 --> 01:10:15.520
was sure the data was clean,
enough to do a table on it.

862
01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:17.920
I'd crank the pay at the table
program to see what it looked like.

863
01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:21.079
You know, I couldn't wait.
It was like a kid on Christmas morning,

864
01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:24.199
you know. I got to see
what the state is. You know.

865
01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:28.800
Yeah, let me ask you this
now that we're getting kind of that

866
01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:32.640
out of time. But with one
hundred and twenty thousand or so sightings,

867
01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:40.640
is it your feeling that that represents
one hundred and twenty thousand or so people

868
01:10:41.239 --> 01:10:48.640
or more? Well, okay,
let's use Stanton Friedman's formula one in ten

869
01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:53.199
reports. And I did a chapter
like this in the book, and I

870
01:10:53.239 --> 01:10:56.760
said, well, there are other
people who say that number might be bigger

871
01:10:56.880 --> 01:11:01.159
or whatever. I went with his
one and ten people report what they see.

872
01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:06.199
So we said, huh, one
hundred and twenty one thousand times ten,

873
01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:12.239
that's one point two million. And
I cranked it back and said,

874
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:15.199
you know, investigators tell me that
this stuff is about six or seven percent.

875
01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:20.239
And we started looking at the numbers. We eliminated the obvious shapes that

876
01:11:20.319 --> 01:11:25.199
could easily be military craft, you
know, triangles, blimps, that kind

877
01:11:25.239 --> 01:11:29.560
of thing. And guess what the
one hundred and twenty one thousand ends up

878
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:36.479
being about six and a half percent
of the one point two million. So

879
01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:40.279
we look at the thing and says, you know, there's a lot more

880
01:11:40.279 --> 01:11:43.680
out there. It's a difference of
Hey, there's eight thousand sightings a year.

881
01:11:44.680 --> 01:11:47.359
If you use the Freeman factor,
as we call it, there's eighty

882
01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:51.640
thousand, yeah, out there a
year. Well, and I mean even

883
01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:57.119
for just a number of people reporting. I look at reports every day,

884
01:11:57.720 --> 01:12:02.640
and you know you've probably seen this
as well. Many of the reports say

885
01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:08.079
me and my mom or outside,
you know, me and my wife,

886
01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:12.840
or me and my kids. So
a lot although there's only one report,

887
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:18.800
there are often you know, two
or three witnesses associated with that report,

888
01:12:19.119 --> 01:12:26.319
And to me, I think just
at least signifies a or shows that there's

889
01:12:26.359 --> 01:12:33.319
a social or cultural significance to hundreds
of thousands of people. You know.

890
01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:35.640
Well, this is the other thing
I was going to tell you about the

891
01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:43.159
family reunion. I've observed that families
are handing down these UFO sightings like family

892
01:12:43.239 --> 01:12:48.279
heirlooms. Oh yeah, interesting treasured
stories. I did a two stories like

893
01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:51.600
this, one that was set back
in the thirties and one that was set

894
01:12:51.600 --> 01:12:56.800
back in the eighteen eighties, and
both these little ladies came to mean sat

895
01:12:56.800 --> 01:12:59.800
down and had a cup of coffee
with me and told me these amazing stories

896
01:13:00.399 --> 01:13:05.800
and of some relative of theirs.
They had this sighting in a great detail,

897
01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:08.760
And I said, why do you
know so much detail about it?

898
01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:12.479
Says, Oh, everybody in our
family knows the story. So there's this

899
01:13:12.960 --> 01:13:15.840
whole family airboom thing. And it's
amazing when you hear people talking about these

900
01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:21.800
things. That is really interesting.
That's uh, that's that's kind of a

901
01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:29.159
modern kind of folklore type of thing. That's really interesting. Yeah, So

902
01:13:29.439 --> 01:13:33.800
that's pretty much it. This comes
more to tell maybe I can come to

903
01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:40.239
come to the next IUOOC and give
some really amazing flags. Yeah, that

904
01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:45.119
would be really interesting, So send
us some more info on that. Otherwise,

905
01:13:45.479 --> 01:13:47.399
everybody can get the book at Amazon. Is that the best place to

906
01:13:47.439 --> 01:13:54.399
go. Yes. The name of
the book is the It's a UFO Sightings

907
01:13:54.439 --> 01:14:00.239
Desk Reference and then the United States
of America two thousand and one, twenty

908
01:14:00.399 --> 01:14:04.600
fifteen. And if you google it, believe me, you'll come right to

909
01:14:04.640 --> 01:14:13.640
the top of googling and you can
order it from them and they'll have it

910
01:14:13.640 --> 01:14:17.119
to you within seventy two hours typically
perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you

911
01:14:17.239 --> 01:14:23.560
so much for coming to the show
again. I'll definitely rely on you when

912
01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:28.239
you know, as time goes on, and I'm sure this data will reveal

913
01:14:28.359 --> 01:14:31.000
more and more, and I'm sure
you'll see more and more in this data

914
01:14:31.039 --> 01:14:35.039
as time goes on. You did
mention, actually what you're working on your

915
01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:39.800
next project, and that is an
international version of this book. Is that

916
01:14:39.800 --> 01:14:47.199
correct? Yes, I've captured that
data and it's not as clean. It

917
01:14:47.239 --> 01:14:51.000
doesn't actually have a good country field. It was put in the same field

918
01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:57.720
as the city. So I literally
had to write some scripting code to separate

919
01:14:57.760 --> 01:15:01.039
that out and build a new column. We're in the process of cleaning that

920
01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:04.920
up right now. It's time consuming
and we've been busy trying to get this

921
01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:09.840
book launched and everything. But I
am working on a I'm working on too.

922
01:15:09.920 --> 01:15:13.920
I'm working on the international and we're
working on doing a variant of the

923
01:15:14.039 --> 01:15:16.560
same book, but do it where
we literally can break It's called the Shapes

924
01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:23.520
Manual and you can literally be reports
for individual counties and their shapes. M

925
01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:29.000
hm. Awesome, So it should
be fun. Yeah, that will be

926
01:15:29.159 --> 01:15:31.840
terribly interesting. Well, thank you
so much for coming on the show,

927
01:15:31.840 --> 01:15:36.600
but thank you so much for putting
this data together because it is very very

928
01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:41.319
important stuff, and you know,
it's the type of stuff that some of

929
01:15:41.399 --> 01:15:44.680
us researchers like, I'm good friends
with some Robert Powell, Richard Hoffman,

930
01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:47.359
some of the people you mentioned,
and you know, we just eat up

931
01:15:47.399 --> 01:15:53.319
and love this stuff. So this
is really exciting. Thank you very much,

932
01:15:53.399 --> 01:15:56.199
have me on again, all right, we'll do. Thank you so

933
01:15:56.439 --> 01:16:01.319
much to Cheryl Costa for joining us
once again on the shoe. She is

934
01:16:01.680 --> 01:16:04.800
great. She's always a lot of
fun. She's so full of energy and

935
01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:11.640
so positive. I love speaking with
her. She's she's inspiring. She gets

936
01:16:11.680 --> 01:16:15.760
me excited about stuff again all the
time. So it's always just fun to

937
01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:21.119
talk with her, let alone about
this wonderful new book that she has.

938
01:16:21.239 --> 01:16:30.680
So remember that is the UFO Sightings
Desk Reference United States of America two thousand

939
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:34.439
and one to twenty fifteen. It's
one of those types of things where it

940
01:16:34.479 --> 01:16:36.920
looks like what it is, you
know, kind of a desk reference,

941
01:16:36.920 --> 01:16:42.119
where it's something for you to look
at. It's gonna go right next to

942
01:16:42.159 --> 01:16:46.600
my governments and UFOs. That's something
that you guys got to look up if

943
01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:50.680
you haven't gotten it. Of course, that was done by a bunch of

944
01:16:50.720 --> 01:16:56.520
authors, and it has government documents
in it. So I'm gonna have both

945
01:16:56.520 --> 01:17:00.640
of these together to get all of
the data I need at my fingertips.

946
01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:05.359
So, like your Costa said,
go to Amazon and you can look up

947
01:17:05.439 --> 01:17:10.960
UFO Sighting's desk reference and it will
pop up. I think even if you

948
01:17:11.079 --> 01:17:15.479
just go to Google. I went
to Google and put Cheryl Costa Amazon and

949
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:20.079
it posts it popped up as well. So luckily that's how we find stuff

950
01:17:20.119 --> 01:17:24.800
now. We go to Google and
we search. I mean, URLs are

951
01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:29.079
even like out the door, nobody
cares about UFO dot com or something.

952
01:17:29.119 --> 01:17:31.880
They're just gonna go Google, and
that's how they will find it. If

953
01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:39.119
you google open minds UFO News or
something like that, you're gonna find us

954
01:17:39.159 --> 01:17:42.279
or open mind ufo. You'll find
us, and you'll find the news that

955
01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:45.279
Martin and I talked about at the
top of the show. And then you'll

956
01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:50.399
also find a link when you go
to this radio show at our web page

957
01:17:51.199 --> 01:17:58.319
to the Amazon page. If for
some reason you need help finding that.

958
01:17:58.560 --> 01:18:02.479
I'm sure you're all be fine on
your own, but yeah, and don't

959
01:18:02.479 --> 01:18:08.920
forget to continue to check our daily
headlines because we post UFO headlines every day

960
01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:15.159
except for when I'm sick, and
in those headlines usually on Mondays, you'll

961
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:20.479
see the story Cheryl posted on Friday, and that includes this Monday, which

962
01:18:20.520 --> 01:18:24.680
is today. You can go in
the headlines, and I think the very

963
01:18:24.680 --> 01:18:30.600
first story is Cheryl's story for this
week about flying saucers. So thank you

964
01:18:30.640 --> 01:18:34.359
to Cheryl for being on the show
and for everything that she does. Be

965
01:18:34.520 --> 01:18:40.600
sure and follow her at Syracuse New
Times and get her new desk reference.

966
01:18:41.960 --> 01:18:45.359
Also thank you to Martin Willis for
helping us at the beginning of the show

967
01:18:45.439 --> 01:18:48.520
with the UFO news. And don't
forget what I mentioned at the top of

968
01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:55.039
the show, which is at five
Simington interview that we posted last week.

969
01:18:55.479 --> 01:18:58.359
I think it was Monday of last
week, the only day I was in

970
01:18:58.399 --> 01:19:02.079
the office. I was in the
office Monday and Friday. But anyway,

971
01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:05.680
go check out that video. It's
free on YouTube. You can find it

972
01:19:05.720 --> 01:19:11.720
at Openminds dot tv, or you
can find it on our YouTube channel,

973
01:19:11.760 --> 01:19:15.119
which is open Minds TV on YouTube. You could probably even just look up

974
01:19:15.119 --> 01:19:19.399
five Summington and find it on YouTube. Since it's probably the latest video of

975
01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:24.960
Summington up there. But yeah,
go check that out and thank you so

976
01:19:25.199 --> 01:19:29.640
much. I cannot think James Fox
enough. First of all, I can't

977
01:19:29.640 --> 01:19:34.279
thank of for his excellent documentaries out
of the Blue and I know what I

978
01:19:34.319 --> 01:19:38.880
saw. If you haven't seen those, go watch those. You can find

979
01:19:38.920 --> 01:19:42.000
those online now too. You can
find them on YouTube and all kinds of

980
01:19:42.000 --> 01:19:47.000
places. Many people would agree,
and I hear this often that those are

981
01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:54.520
the best UFO documentaries you can find
out there, pretty high praise. So

982
01:19:54.600 --> 01:19:58.439
go check those out, and thank
you so much to James Fox for coming

983
01:19:58.439 --> 01:20:01.359
to the UFO Congress. He's a
great speaker. He moderated a panel on

984
01:20:01.399 --> 01:20:04.800
the Phoenix sites and he did a
talk, a talk of which we have

985
01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:11.199
up on the website. He brought
witnesses from the Phoenix sites who others haven't

986
01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:15.760
heard, you know, or you
probably haven't heard often, and they saw

987
01:20:15.800 --> 01:20:18.880
this thing go right overhead, so
that you can see their discussion with him.

988
01:20:19.159 --> 01:20:21.600
But that's up on our video on
demand, so if you go to

989
01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:28.279
the video portal from Open Minds dot
tv, you'll find that. Also on

990
01:20:28.319 --> 01:20:31.520
our video on demand portal. We
have the new Richard Dolan video up.

991
01:20:31.560 --> 01:20:36.119
So we just posted that like yesterday
or something, so I haven't even really

992
01:20:36.159 --> 01:20:41.119
told people much about that, so
I'll be sending some information out about that.

993
01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:45.439
And as I've told you guys before, it's five dollars a month for

994
01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:49.239
the video portal. We don't charge
for this show, we don't charge for

995
01:20:49.279 --> 01:20:55.079
the news we post every day,
we don't charge for practically nothing. So

996
01:20:55.279 --> 01:20:58.600
if you go to our video portal
and subscribe, first of all, we're

997
01:20:58.600 --> 01:21:00.760
going to be very thankful. Well. Second of all, it's gonna help

998
01:21:00.800 --> 01:21:04.640
fund us and help us keep rolling, so that's always a good thing.

999
01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:10.239
Hopefully you enjoy what we do and
I do, and I enjoy that you

1000
01:21:10.560 --> 01:21:14.239
enjoy it as well, and so
I want you to keep going and I

1001
01:21:14.279 --> 01:21:16.920
want us to keep going. So
please, you know, that would be

1002
01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:20.359
really great if you could subscribe to
the video portal, and it's not like

1003
01:21:20.439 --> 01:21:24.840
it's just a donation and you're not
gonna get nothing for it. In fact,

1004
01:21:24.840 --> 01:21:30.560
you're gonna have access to hundreds of
videos from speakers like some of the

1005
01:21:30.600 --> 01:21:35.960
people we've talked about got multiple Richard
Dolan on there, We've got you know,

1006
01:21:36.159 --> 01:21:40.039
Bob Lasar, and nobody else has
got Bobblasar. We got Bob Lazar

1007
01:21:40.119 --> 01:21:45.680
on there. We've got several from
George Knapp, We've got several from Charles

1008
01:21:45.720 --> 01:21:47.560
Hall, who we talked about the
witness at the Rundel, from Forrest So

1009
01:21:48.680 --> 01:21:55.279
and many, many, many others. I'm just you know, some really

1010
01:21:55.279 --> 01:22:00.479
good stuff, so go check it
out. But enough selling stuff to you

1011
01:22:00.520 --> 01:22:03.960
guys and more thanking you for all
the cool stuff you do. But before

1012
01:22:03.960 --> 01:22:08.680
I thank you, I'm gonna thank
someone else, Caleb Hanks for the excellent

1013
01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:12.520
music that he's provided for the open
end close of the show. And now

1014
01:22:12.560 --> 01:22:15.439
it's your turn. Thank you for
patiently waiting because I know you probably sit

1015
01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:17.920
up on this part and he's like, hey, hey, they're gonna thank

1016
01:22:18.000 --> 01:22:20.920
us. He's gonna thank me.
He's gonna talk about how great I am,

1017
01:22:21.279 --> 01:22:25.079
because I do like to talk about
how great you guys are. Because

1018
01:22:25.359 --> 01:22:29.159
my listeners are everything when it comes
to this show, and I do have

1019
01:22:29.239 --> 01:22:32.079
some of the best listeners. Some
of my favorite people in the UFO field

1020
01:22:32.119 --> 01:22:36.279
are listeners to my show. How
cool is that? Thank you guys so

1021
01:22:36.479 --> 01:22:44.800
much for listening. And I apologize
for missing last week for being sick and

1022
01:22:44.960 --> 01:22:47.479
stuff. Well, I shouldn't apologize
for being sick. That's not like it's

1023
01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:50.920
my fault. But I don't know. That's what you do, right.

1024
01:22:50.960 --> 01:22:56.720
You apologize when people get mad at
you for not doing what you want to

1025
01:22:56.800 --> 01:23:00.279
do, and that appeases them.
So I hope you're appeased by my apology,

1026
01:23:00.840 --> 01:23:05.399
and I hope you enjoyed today's show, and I hope you join us

1027
01:23:05.479 --> 01:24:00.359
next week for another Until then,
Audios moved tutos, no shimming sound,

1028
01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:02.319
the glass tries hollering