Baska. What up? Everybody? Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul,
the podcast where I Paul abern At the answer. All of your pressing
questions submitted through are free sponsored by Wicks Online Portal over at Paul Abernathy dot
com, so check it out. Just go to Paul Abernathy dot com and
you can submit your questions to me on the National Electrical Code. In fact,
that's a place that my fast Track students should be going to submit questions
for the upcoming fast Tracks Live series. It's starting on June twenty eighth,
and that's how they would send questions in to be answered on the show.
But you can do it too. Just like today's podcast, I am requested
to answer many things and you can do all that over at Paul Abernathy dot
com. Pretty cheap, simple, free. You can't get better than free.
Right, all right, let's get into today's episode. Today's episode is
a little different because the episode was sent to me and they sent to me
a question and answer that was from I guess it's the NIKA Code question of
the day and I've seen these from time to time and they asked me if
I would comment on it, so I'm gonna read the question and I'm also
going to read the answer, and again the answer comes from Nika. This
used to be the old Charles Charlie Trout. Charlie passed away years ago,
so this is I'm not sure who's taken this over. But again, it's
been a great series for folks. It sends you a daily question of the
day. It's kind of like what we do here, but my questions are
specific to people that submit them into the system. So but it's a neat
platform. If you've never done it, today just search for Nika Question of
the Day and you can subscribe and they'll send you a question each day.
So what happened, I guess is a question kind of was answered or submitted
by an individual, and one of our listeners saw it and said, you
know, I don't necessarily know if I if I agree with the answer,
and would I be willing to comment on it? So I figured, you
know, what the heck, I'd I'd go on and comment on it and
I'll give you my thoughts on it. So this episode, this question,
I believe if I'm looking, it's based on Tuesday, May sixteenth, twenty
twenty three. So if you're looking this up over on the question of the
day over at NIKA. It's from Tuesday, May sixteenth, twenty twenty three,
and here's the question says, Hello, Charlie, we are seeing more
and more lighted mirrors being installed in dwelling unit bathrooms. There are a couple
of questions that come up when we install these units. Number one, would
a mirror light combo mounted on the wall over the bathroom counter required GFCI protection,
Well, that one's easy. The answer is no. So the GFCI
protection rule is specific to things like hydro massage therapy. The receptacles GFCI protection.
The receptacle to serve the countertop within three feet of the top inside edge
of the bowl. That's GFCI protected. Things like that, Right, any
receptacle that's in a bathroom GFCI protected. Okay, all of that to ten
dot eight, So that's okay. So if it's built in a mirror that
just has the lighting and all built into it, then no, there wouldn't
be there's no receptacle there. There wouldn't be any requirement unless worth the manufacturer's
instructions dictated that. Thank that, Oh it has to be this, So
generally no to that. So that's the first part. The second one says,
if the mirror light combo also has factory installed receptacles built into it,
does it require GFCR protection and is it required to be supplied by a twenty
amp separate circuit? Requiring required for bathroom and bathroom receptacles. Thanks in advance
for your input. And the gentleman's name was Ben Mellows. Okay, so
let me talk about that. So the the code's pretty clear that you have
to have at least one twenty amp circuit and this isn't going to be the
one that's going to supply the receptacle for serving the countertop. Okay, that's
pretty straightforward. We have that rule and we don't have you know, that's
you know, not debated when it comes to that circuit. Right, So
now the question is could I have other receptacles in there? Absolutely, and
do they need to be twenty amp as well? No, they don't.
You have to have at least one twenty am but nothing says that we couldn't
have a day receptacle that's fifteen amps or some other receptacle for a specific need
at fifteen amps as long as we meet the twenty amp at least one,
and that's the one that's going to serve the countertop. So that's already met.
That rule is met, so any additional one doesn't have to be twenty
ams. Now, if you're going to put that light, that light mirror
combo, that's essentially like a luminaire, so it would be on the branch
circuit that's applying the lighting. Now, if you want to take your own
separate one there, that's fine, totally up to you for that. Now,
where the second part of this question gets into it says now it says
if the mirror light combo has a factory installed receptacle built into it, does
it required GFCR protection and is it required to be supply by the twenty amp
separate circuit required for bathrooms and bathroom receptacles like I read earlier. So in
that part of the question, the receptacle that's in there again does not need
to be twenty AM okay, as long as you have the receptacles that are
required there to meet the requirements of two ten dot fifty two D. As
long as they're all in there, okay, the all receptacles that are in
a bathroom that are one twenty five through two fifty volt receptacles have to have
GFCI protection period, end of story. So, whether I put a fifteen
AM receptacle in there, a twenty AM perceptacle in there, the required twenty
amp to serve the countertop within three feet of the basin, all of those,
if it's in the bathroom, it's got to be GFCI protected, point
blank. Now. The only exception to this rule in two ten dot eight
A is where you have one of the exceptions. And I'm looking at the
twenty twenty three, okay, because I'm kind of moving forward. In the
twenty twenty three, you have an exception in here that says exception number four.
It says factory installed receptacles that are not readily accessible and are mounted internally
to bathroom exhaust fan assemblies shall not be required, shall not require GFCI protection
unless required by the installation instructions or the listing. That makes sense, right,
So in this case, if I have a lighted mirror and it has
built in receptacles, now those receptacles aren't going to serve the countertop, right
Those are just in addition, they come with the luminaire, which is a
mirror with the luminaire built into it that comes with it. The exception that
we read doesn't apply because we're not talking about a bathroom exhaust fan, right,
So it's built in, but it's still a receptacle and still could have
stuff plugged into it, right, Okay. So if that's the case,
and you go look at two ten dot eight, and those are the ground
fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel rules. It states a dwelling units. It
says all one hundred and twenty five volt through two fifty volt receptacles installed in
the following locations and supplied by single phase brand circuits rated on or fifty volts
are less to ground, which it will be one twenty shall have ground fault
circuit interrupter protection for personnel. And the number one on the list is bathrooms.
Period. So if the receptacle, even though it's built into the mirror,
it's still going to be a one twenty voult through two fifty volt receptacle,
it's still going to be rated one hundred and fifty volts less to ground.
It's still in the bathroom, it's still going to be used it would
not want anybody telling me that it doesn't require GFC oppertuection. Now you say,
well, it's built into the mirror. How would I do that?
Well, y'all know how you would do that. You put a GFCI breaker
in the panel, you protect everything downstream. It's not that part's not brain
surgery. Now let me read you the answer that was given, Okay,
and the reason I didn't elaborate on things like the shower space and bad because
typically that's not going to come into play because it's the mirror over the sink.
Okay, But anyway, let me read you the answer that was given
by the NIKA. And again not to disparage Nika, I'm just, I'm
just it was I was asked to follow up on this. The answer that
was given was high ben good question. The ANC would not require GFCI protections
for a light mirror combination unit. That is correct at that point. However,
if the light mirror unit can't extend into the tub or shower space as
defined in four ten ten D, that it must be marked as suitable for
wet and damp locations. And if the subject of if it's of the sub
two shower spray. It must be suitable for wet locations. Now, I
didn't even go into that, because again, what mirror would you put over
your sink that's going to be subject to that? I mean, be real,
I can promise you the lights that you put over your vanity aren't rated
for a wet location. Okay, right, anyway, but that's kind of
went where. I don't know why it went there, but anyway, I
guess it's covering all bases. It also says if the light mirror unit also
has a factory install receptacle, it would could not be used to comply with
the bathroom receptacle requirements found in section two ten fifty two D. It required
GFCR protection in accordance with two ten dot AA, it would not be required
to be on a twenty amp circuit as as section two ten to fifty two
one. Okay, all right, so I get all that they're talking more
about the spacing in two ten to fifty two. The I've already covered the
fact that it's as long as you have the one that's required to be done.
And also to remember, during rough end, none of that stuff's there
practically, although some of them might have a rough end kit. You're still
going to have to establish your minimum of one twenty brand circuit within three feet
of the basin. The twenty amp one for the basin, you gotta have
that. This is an additional so these receptacles, it doesn't have to be
twenty It could be a fifteen amp circuit. But I think what's lacking here
is the fact that it is still a receptacle. It'll still have something plugged
into it, and it's still in the bathroom, and it is definitely going
to be at the SINC location. And the whole intent here is if you
look at two ten dot AA that it says number one item says bathrooms.
So if it's a receptacle factory installed or not, if it is in the
bathroom, then it is going to have to have GFCI protection on it.
So in this case, you're going to do it back at the panel.
Okay, all right, hopefully that answered your question on that one. Again,
I don't necessarily one hundred percent agree with the with the NIKA response to
that one, and probably went off on some tangents that it didn't need it
to go down when it comes to the you know about the wet and dry
location application. I hardly think that's an issue. But the recept But but
the lack of the fact that it's said nothing about the actual receptacle that is
inside of a bathroom, which somebody can openly go and plug in a razor
or plug something into it. That's the whole point of our GFCI protection,
right. So really it wasn't covered well in the answers, so I guess
that's why the individuals submitted it to me. So, yes, sir,
it can be on a fifteen or twenty, doesn't matter when it comes to
the mirror light combo. If it does have integral receptacles, then yes,
they don't meet the spacing requirement. Probably you have to look at the rules
in two ten fifty two to see whether or not it's another type receptacle.
But at the end of the day, you're gonna put your receptacles in and
meet the requirements at two ten dot eleven, and so you're gonna put your
receptacles in a receptacle within three feet an outlet, within three feet of the
basin. But these receptacles that are located integral to the light mirror combo are
most certainly inside of that bathroom, they most certainly, in my opinion,
and two ten eight a one would require GFCI protection. And I don't see
anything in any of the exceptions, even the four of them that were in
the twenty twenty three. I don't see anything in there that would exempt me
from that protection, because that's what it's there for, to protect US personnel
persons. Okay, all right, So that's my take on that Nico question.
If you want to read the question yourself, and you maybe even reply
to Charlie or whoever's doing them for Charlie, it is sixteenth, twenty twenty
three when that question came out, and all you gotta do is go over
to and you search for Nika Question of the Day and you'll find it.
Go to the archives and look up that day and you'll see the question again.
It's May sixteenth, twenty twenty three. If you want to do a
follow up to it, to Charlie and them, ask them that question and
see what they say. But still a great amazing resource, and they do
a wonderful job over there, Nika and bringing these questions out every day.
Again, everybody's got an opinion. That's just how I see it. You
may see it differently, but that's the beautiful thing about the code. Until
next time, folks, stay safe, God bless. And again, if
you want to get your questions answered or you want my opinion on something,
just go to Paul Abernathy dot com and submit it that way. That's the
easiest way to get questions to me. Till next time, folks, Stay
safe, God bless. Both both asked open ask booth, Open bo