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welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knox. This is out. I'm probably
here with my host Dan, my co host Dan Favali, I should say,
and this is gonna be a special, unique episode for us because for
once I am going to be on a podcast that is not mailbag oriented.
Dan, are you excited about that? This isn't a mailbag? I guess
you're gonna do this one on your own. Then all I'll leave. I
thought we were doing on mail back. I'm just gonna avant for a solid
hour apparently. This is one of those podcasts where it's like there probably are
we've reached the pot in the season where there's probably other stuff to talk about,
But we've done enough of the awards, particularly MVP. We've talked about
buyouts, we've talked about the impact injuries are having on rosters. This is
basically us saying we're like, seventy five percent of the way through the season,
it's time to do a change of pain. Still hard to believe in
this podcast that we're that far into it. Yeah, I am too.
So we're gonna be talking about some rookies and we'll structure that as a twenty
twenty NBA redraft of the lottery. This is not like a competition or anything.
This is just Dan and I collaboratively working to try to come up with
how we think the top fourteen picks, irrespective of team needs, would go
with every single eligible person for the twenty twenty draft who was back in the
picture. That does mean that a standout rookie like jay Shawn Tate who was
technically undrafted in twenty eighteen, is not going to be eligible, but everyone
else is. Dan and I forgetting to clarify anything so we have all of
the parameters set properly. Yeah, just to reiterate that we're doing this still
obviously performance thus far our factors in, but we are still trying to wait
long term potential for you know, there are players who've been injured or just
haven't played as much. In this redraft, it's still you know, since
we're not that. I think when you get a certain amount of time out
from a draft, a redraft basically just becomes the best players, which is
fine. But now it's a little bit different because we're less than a year
out from this draft class and this is more of just like midstream who would
we take based on what's already happened, but also trying to weigh long term
as well, and we're not did you mention my apologizes in here? This
has nothing to do with you know, I don't care that the Bulls have
the number four pick. I'm not drafting on fit. Yeah, irrespective of
team needs. Yep. So yeah, we're gonna alternate who leads for the
pick, but we do want to come to an agreement before we move on
to the next one if we're able to. And she determined who was leading
the number one pick. We had friend of the podcast, Jacob Bourn,
ask a random objective trivia question about the NBA, and his question was how
many combined career points do Keith and Marcus Morris have? I guess sixteen thousand,
five hundred forty one. Dan prices right at me and guess sixteen thousand,
five hundred forty and because it's fifteen thousand, five hundred and forty six.
See you learned something on the podcast, right, Dan gets to go
first. I really had no feel for where they'd be at, and so
it was either do I go one above or one below? And it felt
like either way if you didn't, I strongly regret. I strongly regat it
was just regular season, but I strongly regret not sending my answer on the
side to that. It's like, ultimately it's irrelevant, but I'm competitive enough
that I still wanted to beat you, and I just would you have been
in the ballpark. I have no idea what number I would have put.
I think I'm so competitive that I tried to strategically beat you so I could
get the first pick, which is kind of stupid because we're going was an
amateur move on my part. Yeah, but it was also like the first
pick is a little bit having the floor. Here's a little bit worthless because
I think it's a no brainer. Lamello ball at number one. It's it's
definitely a no brainer. The fractured risk sucks. It's cool. I guess
that the Hornets are not holding out or ruling out his return of the season
because they look they're still in contention for a home court advantage in the first
round of these are conference playoffs, and he looked he's had a great season.
But once he went into their starting lineup, and I'm not including the
game in which he left and only played like twenty one minutes because he was
injured. So in the twenty starts since he entered the starting lineup, he
averaged nineteen point eight points, six point four assists, one point seven steals,
shot forty three point two percent from three on six point three three point
attempts per game. I know he used to have concerns about his jumper form.
I'm impressed with just the way he was knocking down shots off the dribble
or off the catch. And I also, you know, I'm not someone
everyone who listens to this podcast, you know, by now that I just
don't sink my teeth into college stuff or prospects until right before the draft.
Basically, I just didn't think that he would be so sort of disruptive on
the defensive end, where it's I don't know if he's a net plus at
this point, but he's going to be I think, probably a pretty good
team defender. And I think right now, I don't know if he's gonna
win Rookie of the Year. That's a separate discussion. Did he play enough
if he doesn't play again this season when there are other guys who are one
playing well, or like Anthony Edwards who have been surging since the All Star
break. Basically, but I think he's the clear cut number one here.
Yeah, you basically took all of the talking points on that one, which
is great because they're they're all right, I mean, but ultimately it boils
down to him being just such an obvious franchise centerpiece. It's not even just
what he does on the court. It's the infectious personality and the marketability and
everything that he has going for him. He's a generational passer, you know.
Some of the stuff that he's able to do is just so remarkably advanced,
and he'll cut back on turnovers and whatnot as his career progresses. And
I do still have some concerns about the shooting for him. We've talked about
him in a previous episode where I think it's more that this season has sort
of established a higher floor for me for his ceiling, but not necessarily a
higher ceiling or an indication that he's going to be a super reliable, consistent
shooter, Like I could definitely see up and down swings, but the baseline
is strong enough that it doesn't need to be a huge concern. So every
every prospect in his class is ultimately a little bit flawed. But you know,
like he's the obvious one, yep. And do you do you think
there will be you know, how do you Maybe you don't even really answer
this question, but if you're hitting that high of eclip on your threes,
what is the impetus for change? Is it? Don't fix it until you
see that it's broken, or you try to make changes over the summer before
your sophomore year. And I wonder how the just his risk injury complicates all
this. I mean, we saw a Lonzo consistently tweak his form too,
because he had another remarkably unorthodox jumper that he had to fix and it's panned
out this year. But with Lamello, the issue is the feat right,
Like, you want that consistent base, and he manages to turn earned counterclockwise
when he shoots sometimes and clockwise other times, and just the inconsistency there makes
it harder to replicate the shooting motion on every single shot. You know,
you watch Steph Curry play and you know that he's always going to square to
the basket and turn in slightly as he shoots. It's replicable, it's consistent,
and it makes him a better, more reliable shooter. And I think
that's what we need to see Fromlamelo. I don't know that he needs a
huge form overhaul so much as just like working on that base. Yeah,
I'm just curious to see sort of how that happens. Do you want to
get us to number two? And I'm hoping you don't take all the talking
points on who I think you're because I have some I have some fantastic numbers
that could be construed as propaganda, but I'm ready to drop these fire stats
once. You always come in with more of the stats than I do,
which I feel like that's a huge change of pace from years past. Look,
you've fully nerded me out. I don't look, I don't watch games
live in a spreadsheet. Yeah, I just live in a spreadsheet, that's
all. I had one of those commenters on Twitter the other day. It's
so obnoxious, like that argument. It's like, oh, stop working with
graphs and like watch the games. Do you think I would want to create
the graphs if I wasn't enjoying watching the games? Like, can you come
up with a better talking point? I can confirm that Adam has never watched
a single NBA game over the past. I've known him basically, I've known
him longer than this, But since we started interacting twenty thirteen ish, I
think it was you've watched sub five basketball games. I think it's three and
a half. Also, for my sake, imagine just how bad I would
be if I didn't watch the games because I'm not I'm affiliated with NBA math.
But that's more so your problem because I'm just not like super high IQ
genius like you. So if I only use numbers, my announci stected to
be worse than it already is. Picture that I can't exactly anyway pick number
two. It's it's gotta be Tyrese Halibert. I feel like that's the obvious
answer here too. I think they're going to be some Anthy Edwards push back
on this. And I say that because I get the Rookie Ladder at Bleacher
Report a week or two ago. There are a lot of commenters who were
they focused on ants, you know, scoring per game, which is fair,
but also let's not overweight that in the long term. You know,
well, let's save our Anthy or your Anthy Edwards taste. I'm ready for
something. Make colpe was there. It's your turn to I've been giving those
out no I on that front, but please continue every time. I'll take
that no. You know, thirteen point three points, three point three rebounds,
five point assis per game, and that doesn't even come close to capturing
the impact that he's had. He is a remarkably turnover a verse guard,
which is a ridiculously rare quality for a lead or a co lead ball Hampler
as they're coming into the NBA and making that transition. He could stand to
get to the free throw line a bit more, but his ability to thrive
on and off the ball, knocking down a ton of spot up shots,
operating in crunch time moments with no fear of the moment. He's actually looked
like a semi decent to good defender on the Sacramento Kings, which might be
the top achievement by any rookie in his class. He checks all the boxes
as like that upper tier jack of all trades, just like we thought he
would going into the draft, and he went twelfth overall, but we were
we were both disappointed that are the teams we cheered for didn't take him earlier
in the proceedings and thought that he should have gone way higher, and he's
validated that and more to this point, he has been if you just I
just feel like he's good at everything, and he's probably not going to I
have no clue what his weakness is, right, and the fact that I
would go as far as saying that he's been a plus defender already, just
when you look at the different types of assignments that he's on the Sacramento Kings,
it seems not necessarily rude but also true because they've had one of the
league's worst defenses or much of this year. But really like his He's not
you know, taking these he's not. His matchups are difficult, and so
he's you know, he's not spending as much time on the first option as
some of the other players on the team, but he's defending the secondary guys,
you know, the second and the third options on those teams for sure.
And he's just I think he's gonna be a really solid team defender.
Has feels like he has feels looks like he has really great hands, someone
who could chase around movement shooters too, but also be fine one on one.
I remain just completely and utterly in awe of him. And he's a
good look. He's just a good offensive game manager at this point too,
and the perfect fit. I would say, alongside deron Fox and the numbers
I'm referring you would have been a perfect fit just alongside anyone though, Like
imagine him playing alongside Chris Paul and Devin Booker or with Trey Young, like
any of those options worked the teams. I keep coming back to our Phoenix
taking Jalen Smith instead of him, and I know the Knicks ended up with
Emmanuel quickly. Who will we will discuss soon. And you don't want to
write off Obi Toppin already. At the same time, if I'm the Knicks,
just knowing what's been my biggest need for like since Jeremy Lynn left,
essentially just take the guy who's projected I was. I was in this boat
with Shay Gil just Alexander two. I was also in that boat with Frankie
Lakina, and clearly I was one percent right about him because he's picking up
the entry. But so two things with Haliburton is the only other rookie in
NBA history to match his current true shooting, assist and steal percentages. I'll
give you a guess. Throw out a rookie. Please don't get it right,
though, get it wrong. I really appreciate it. Give me the
numbers one more time to the only other rookie in NBA history to match his
true shooting percentage, steel percentage, and assist percentage. Chris Paul Magic Johnson.
Not a bad guess, all right, Also company, I would say,
yeah he was Magic Johnson was all right right, Like that's he was
pretty good. Yeah. The other thing, there's only one other player in
the NBA who has used at least one hundred has finished excuse me, at
least one hundred drives this season and is matching Haliburton's efficiency on these drives and
assist percentage. That is Joe Ingles. This is just someone who is I
think that company just proves that he's fundamentally good at everything. You you sort,
you know, he's gone through some swings with his shooting, but if
you just go through these numbers, he's just super efficient off the catch,
low volume on pull ups, but he can still hit them, can just
really do everything. And I'm fascinated to see where his career goes. And
I think, you know, we have to see what happens with Marvin Bagley
once he's healthy. I don't know that you can really count on him for
the King's future. I don't know how you view or Shawn Holmes when he's
setting into free agency. The Kings have two really really high end cornerstones right
now in Halibert and Daria Fox, and so I am intrigued to just see
where this team goes from here. Because people probably weren't happy that they didn't
pull a fire sale, YadA, YadA, YadA. They just they have
two trimetime cornerstones on their roster. Right now, and that sets them up
incredibly well looking ahead. And to answer your question, I am firmly in
the payers on homes and keep him their camp. Yeah, they have to
do some stuff I don't want to get because of the early bird rights or
just I would guess he gets more than ten point five million a year.
I would keep him too. It's just how much do you give give a
big who's you know, he might be the best center on the market,
So we'll have to see. But that three player corps right there, I
mean, if you want to be good right away, you keep Harrison Barnes.
I don't really know how to feel about Buddy Healed at this point,
but those three together are mind boggingly interesting. Hey, Hard Knox listeners,
it's Dan again, this time to talk to you about hosting your own podcast
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Visit grainger dot COM's last keep stock to learn more Granger for the ones who
get it done. Number three. Yeah, I'm waiting for you, and
you're you're not saying anything. So I went with Anthony Edwards here at number
three, and I think he had to come a long way to get to
this spot for me because he was just so inefficient for the first part of
the season. You look at since the All Star break, I believe it
is basically he is averaging twenty four point six points per game, two point
five assists, one point six steals. Still not shooting incredibly well from three,
but he is taking some difficult shots thirty two percent there, He's getting
to the line at a good at a good clip. He's I think he's
getting better on defense even though he's taking all these chances. And I do
really think that his shot selection can still be super ugly, and we're gonna
need to see him just get better at finishing around the rim. But he's
also just you know, he's getting to the rim relative to the rest of
this rookie class. He's getting to the restricted area a ton, So I'm
more intrigued on him than I was before, and I would have to imagine,
you know, he leads all rookies and pull up field goal attempts and
at thirty six point one affect, the field goal percentage is not great.
If he gets more efficient on those and we can see him be more than
a coin toss finisher around the basket, there's you know he has he still
has. I wouldn't ever put him ahead of Lamello right now. I just
can't vision a scenario. But I don't think that he that we can sit
here and say, oh, he still can't be the best player in this
draft. I mean, LaMelo is not even the best finisher right now.
So if he improves one of those where it's hey, can we count on
him to knock down his off the dribble looks at a higher clip long term?
Can he just be bet shoot better than you know, he's fifty six
percent in the restricted area right now. He still has a crack at that,
maybe more so than Tyrese Haliburton, where I think his ceiling is higher.
I also just feel like he's a little bit less likely to hit it
because there are there is more variants in his performance. If that makes any
sense it does. I'm starting to buy into the point that I don't think
I would have that much of a problem if you wanted to take number one
in a redraft. And I was so skeptical of him coming into the league,
as you know, and it took a lot of convincing, but just
seeing the way that he's already grown and recognizing the sheer difficulty of the role
he's attempting to fill as a rookie. That's a tough job being asked to
take and make so many pull up jumpers and be such a central part of
the offense, especially when Karl Anthony Towns has missed so much time, Like
he was even more of a focal point than I think anyone intended for him
to be at that stage. But we've already seen him. You know,
he still has some finishing issues around the rim, but we see him getting
to the line now. You know, he's actually drawing contact and getting points
at the charity stripe. He's willing to pass more, he's in the right
defensive spots. More like, it's it's clicking to the point that while I
still have questions about the shot selection, the obviousness of his best attributes are
now strongly superseding that that qualm there's Did you ever think you would be at
this point with Anthony Edwards? I hoped I would be, but no,
I don't think so. Did you did you consider slotting him any lower?
Or did you think he's like clear number three right now? I thought it
was the very very clear number three. I mean, and when I say
that, I should say I don't think I was ever going to drop him
below three. But I did waffle a little bit between him and Halliburton before
deciding that Halliburton was just too damn good at everything already. Yeah, I'm
I didn't actually consider putting him ahead of Haliburton. But it's as I alined
before. I do think he's looked at the ceiling is clearly there. Yeah,
dogs, who do you have it? Who do we have at number
four? Oh? Wait, we didn't? I think we disagree here?
I think we did. Yeah, so I had Emmanuel quickly here. I
still have I think after really after number two. Every player has significant flaws
in this class, because this class has always been more about the number of
role players and rotation members that it could produce. Once we get outside that
top tier, than the potential superstars, and it feels like we've already exhausted
the potential superstars by the time we get to number four. So like,
I don't love that Emmanuel Quickly is a scoring guard who doesn't really attack the
basket and get to the line. I don't love the vision I've seen from
him as a passer. The overall shot selection is concerning. He's not a
great defender, but I think you just watch him operate with the ball in
his hands and see how proficient he is at creating space, not necessarily doing
anything with it yet, but just getting to spots and freeing up enough airspace
that he can take a semi uncontested jumper. That's a talent that we haven't
seen from that many people in this class, and ultimately being able to initiate
is so key in this era of offensive explosion that as tantalizing as some of
the three and D or more modern all around archetype players are in this class.
I want to go with that specialty skill. Yeah, I think that's
a good point, and you need his floaters and step back threes to fall
at higher clips than they are right now. But the fact that he has
both in his repertoire at the moment, I think it's really important. It
might be better because I think we flipped, we inverted between the two of
us four and fives, or maybe it might be better to do this than
some But I have Patrick Williams who's basically to me. I don't know if
this is the best way to frame it, but the tyrese Haliburton of BIGS
just where it feels like he's doing everything solid at the moment. Pull up
volume isn't absurd, but he's still hitting at a fairly high clip from inside
d Arco on those baby jumpers. I do feel like some of his offensive
game can nferral in slow motion when he's operating on the ball, but the
ball skills and feel, to me are clearly there. You can also clearly
move him off. And the thing that I just keep coming back to is
he's, you know, his defensive role is already super serious. He is,
he's spending time on a ton of number one options, a ton of
number two options. They've essentially decided from what I've watched, where it's like
we're just going to try and groom him as like the folcrum of our defense
basically, and I think it's going to pan out when you watch him.
He's gone up with some seriously hard wings and I think he's held his own
a lot this season. And he's also show him like if you want to
put him a movement guy too, away from the ball, he's kept up
with them, and I'm I don't know that I'm surprised by that, but
it feels like he can be more decisive and deliberate on defense in that role
than he is on offense without with the ball in his hands. So I'm
super high on Patrick Williams. And I was flabberg I said that he went
at number four. The balls are getting him again in my redraft because I
think he's so fundamentally sound, And then I had quickly at number five and
to just reiterate what you said on him, he's like the ability to create
bass there and I'm probably a little bit higher on his passing or at least
his decision making out of the pick and roll than you are low turn over
there. Right now, I think he's in the seventy second percent file of
points scoord per possession this season. That's pretty big, is it? Rookie?
And maybe defenses will get more used to his floater and decisions and like
how he's sort of firing from beyond the three point line, but he's also
hitting a ton of unassisted threes. Yo. So I don't know that you
can say he's the point guard of the future for the Knicks, but he
is clearly like I think, if you're looking at this season, his ceiling
is higher than he thought, but the floor is there is like this really
really good six amount of the year where it's not just volume scoring, he's
doing a whole bunch of other things as well. I think the best way
to settle this, since we do ultimately want to find a consensus and we
have them reversed, who do you envision quickly and Patrick Williams becoming at their
peaks? Like, based on what we've seen so far, which current player
would you say is like what you think they're going to develop into? Because
for me, I can see quickly becoming like a CJ. McCollum type of
player, just like this absolute offensive dynamo who is comfortable on and off the
ball. And I kind of view Patrick Williams more as like I want to
say, like Pascal Siaka, where He's very obviously good in so many areas,
but I'm not sure you want him as the number one on a championship
caliber team that doesn't have a Kawhi Leonard like superstar. That's an interesting question.
Patrick Williams. He's the youngest guy in this class, so I just
feel like there might be which I will admit I did not really consider until
just now, and so that's I don't know what the player comp would be
for me, though I know Pascal Siakam seems decent. I feel like he's
going to have more defensive range. When you're kind of looking at like the
positions that he's going to be able to defend. It feels like his three
point shot, just based off what he's hitting already, is going to be
a little bit more reliable as well as pull up. I don't know that
he's ever gonna become the facilitator. The CJ. McCollum comp is probably interesting
for Quickly. You feel strongly more about this than me, so I think
we have to defer to putting Quickly at four and Williams at five. But
I just think given that he's the youngest in this draft class, I saw
him compared to like Ogianna Noby two, But I didn't really like that one.
That was more I don't like that as much. I think he is
more offensive upside than that. I think o Gianna Noby has more offensive upside
than we've even seen. But yeah, I think you look at his just
like six foot eight seven foot wingspan, it just feels like he plays the
more desired archetypes and it's clear that he can kind of be used as a
wing at least on defense. But I don't have a great player conference like
is this daddy is young, but he can shoot threes. That's not going
to be it's funny because he's playing with daddy is young. So maybe that's
where my brain is going to. So I guess let's defer. I'll give
you this one. Quickly at four and Patrick Williams at five. It feels
weird to bump him down a spot, but it does. I think it's
more about quickly. I mean Haliburton moving up though that and also Quickly does
have the as of right now, the more desirable skill, which is can
you hit those you know or take those step back threes or create generate your
own. Yeah, I think frequent clip. If I had to summarize it
in like one line, it would be that quickly has the better top end
skill right now. Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it.
Number six is mine. I guess technically because you were number five or
do you want to take or was well, I think you would have technically
been number five. Yeah. So I mean, I think we agree with
with James Wiseman, and he's just been tough to evaluate for me, Like,
I think it's readily apparent what he can do and what he can do
well. It's also readily apparent where he can improve, Like he does not
have great hands, and it shows itself pretty frequently. Like I think you
chuckle there because you a great right, It's like he's trying to catch a
marble basically. Yeah, it's yeah, it's not fun to watch sometimes.
But I also think it's so tough to evaluate him right now because ideally you
want to see him play a pick and roll game with Steph Curry and we've
seen it work in spurts, but he spent so much time on the floor
with Draymond Green, who, as good as he is in a lot of
areas, is really starting to gum up the offense, Like if Draymond Green
is on the court, you know that another defender is going to be compressed
around the paint and make it harder for him to operate as a role man.
And it's it. I don't think we've come close to seeing what his
true ceiling looked like, because the Warriors wouldn't have taken a player who doesn't
really fit their system that high in the draft had they not been convinced that
he was a game changing force. And I just I don't think we're seeing
it yet. Yeah, I'm in lockstep with everything you just said. I
will say, even though he's only shooting sixty three percent from the fan line,
I'm kind of higher on him long term as a force baser after just
watching how he's done in especially at the beginning of the season shooting from beyond
the arc. The fact that the Warriors at least seem willing to run more
pick and roll now, like they're finally saying it after their fan base was
pretty vocal about hey this should be I feel like this dates back to the
Kema Durant days, where it's like, why are you only busting out the
k D Stephen Curry pick and roll once every six months or whatever it was,
So I feel like it took them too long to get there, But
maybe for the rest of the season we'll have better context with which to evaluate
him. Still, I think he can be a better offensive player out side
of the roll man. I'm assuming his hands are going to get better.
I don't know if he's ever gonna be able to make passes on the move
or anything, but I'm assuming his hands are going to get better. I
like him. I think he's more likely to become a semi reliable floor spacer
than I had envisioned him coming in. And I don't know if he's ever
saw that pretty early on two, which is encouraging, like the very first
game, and I think his first career shot was a three. It was
one of his first three shots was a three. It was a trailing three,
I think. And then defensively, I feel like the mobility is there,
more so than I gave him credit for coming out of the draft.
I don't know if the decision making will be there long term, or I
do think if you're not, I mean, if you ideally you want your
center to be the anchor of your defense. I don't want me to not
ideally, but you know, I don't know James Wiseman can be then maybe
the second best defender on Pu's a top ten defensive team in the NBA.
I think he be seen. But the mobility is there, which I think
is important because unless you're going to play strictly dropped coverage, like you're gonna
need him to come out and do a bunch of other things. I feel
like he could potentially get there. And that's where I agree with you about
the Draymond James Wiseman partnership. But having Draymond there, he would think has
to help him long term. With long term for sure, Yeah, but
I think if I can steal one of your pet terms like he's the mystery
box prospect now where like I thought you were gonna say optionality, but I'm
with it. This is for me. This was the end of a tiyear
where I'm most confident about Ball, Halliburton and Edwards now and I can't lag
kudos Anthony Edwards for changing my mind that quickly, But I think there's a
slight drop off there. But even with quickly, Patrick Williams and James Wiseman,
I think that any of them, like if you told me that fifteen
years from now they would be viewed as the best player from this class.
Yeah, I can see it. The upside is still clearly there. I
hate using the word upside, but I think it's true in this case,
And this is a bet on it because I don't if we were just going
off of this season, is James Wiseman in your top ten? Probably not?
Yeah, so there's I think we've at least but we saw him play
three college games, so like we've seen him. Even what does he have
for the season? Is he under sub thirty three? I didn't see him
clearly fifty minutes though, right, I mean, we still don't really know
who he is. But the upside is so obvious still, right, and
the fact that his pick and rolled usage as the roleman wasn't higher to this
point. I'm assuming it's going to shoot up sort of moving forward based off
what the Warriors are saying now. But you look at this guy and he's
you know, how many of his possessions thirteen point seven percent of his offensive
possessions have come as the roll man. That is much too low. Yeah,
agreed. So number seven is me correct, it is I have and
I don't know if this surprises me or not, but I have Sadiq Bay.
I kind of want. I think, like you said, we're entering
a different tier where I think you could put these in a bunch of different
orders. Sadiq Bay has shocked me with He's not the most efficient player right
now, but he has more. He's hitting his threes at a good clip,
mind you, and it looks like that ended up being a really good
pickup for the for the Pistons. Thirty point five percent of his threes in
their current offense is good he has and we haven't seen it yet necessarily as
a playmaker, maybe it gets there. He has more ball skills than I
thought, where you can see him like he's putting the ball on the floor
more often than I ever would have thought, and watching him, it feels
like they have someone who's going to be better than just that three and D
wing archetype where I don't know that he's going to be. Maybe it's an
og an Anoby situation. I get that that's not the perfect comp but maybe
it's an og an Anoby situation where no, you're not really going to trust
him to be the playmaker, but he's going to put the ball on the
floor in more ways than just attacking those straight line, wide open drives,
like he might be able to navigate some traffic get around guys. Maybe you
could even hope that he's going to get better at at throwing his kickouts on
the move or are you going to run more pick and roll with him moving
forward? There's more to explore to plumb there than I thought, And maybe
that's you know, there's way too many problems with my draft analysis personally,
but we do tend to boil down I think collectively these guys into oh,
he's going to be a great, complimentary player, and that might be true.
I just feel like there's a little bit more depth to his skill set
than Matt Yeah. I think though, even if we just focus on the
signature skill, the three point shooting, like that's impressive enough where I have
him at seven. Anyway, because I still with these role players, which
is the category of players I think we're moving into here, the high upside
rotation members. You want that one supermarketable, niche skill that you know you
can rely on, and we already know that we can rely on this three
pointer. He's the first rookie to hit one hundred threes this season, taking
five point nine per game, making thirty eight point five percent of them.
And that's just super important given the proliferation of three pointers that we've seen throughout
the NBA in recent seasons. Like, you need a guy like that,
And even if he did nothing else, that's that valuable. And he does
do a lot else, Yeah, he does. And I guess the one
what would you call his swing skill? And I would say it's probably hitting
the jumpers off the dribble, because yeah, I was gonna say the same
thing. It's even a two dribble jumper, like just being able to pump,
pump, fake, take a couple of steps in and take a better
shock. And I don't know. I don't know if this is the the
product of just the way the Pistons are built, or if this was just
if he was gonna get playing time coming in as a rookie. You know,
if he was actually on Brooklyn, would he have would he have done
this? I'd be curious to see. But I think when you're the Pistons,
it's definitely worth just experimenting and exploring to see if you have more than
just the you know, the three and D prototype here and again watching him
and not all the numbers are gonna line with it. I think you do.
And look, he has spent just basically ninety percent of his time split
almost evenly between guarding twos, threes and fours. That is, that's just
that's what you want defensively from the wing. I think we're locked up on
the next guy. I'm wondering if you before he ended him, did you
consider putting him any higher? Because I was a little bit tempted. I
was a little bit tempted. We both have Devin Vassell from the San Antonio
Spurs up next. I was tempted to put him higher than Sadiq Bay because
he fits that three and D archetype more. But I don't think he's quite
as good in the three point shooting area, and I don't think the defense
is quite prominent enough to push him over the top. But still, like,
I feel like if there's a rookie who just hasn't been talked about in
this class who should be at this stage, it's probably Devin Vassell. It
seems like he's flown totally under the radar because he hasn't had that like week
long peak like other players have had, Like it was so obvious that LaMelo
ball was taking over before he got hurt. Before that, it was so
clear how good Tyrese Haliburton was, and James Wiseman got the love at the
start of the season and Emmanuel quickly had his surge and the cell has been
more steady. But like in NBA Mass TPA, he is among rookies who
have played two hundred plus minutes, he only trails the mellow ball Tyrese Haliburton
and Emmanuel quickly. In TPA, it's still a slightly negative score, but
putting up minus five point three seven TPA and six hundred forty nine minutes is
impressive because zero isn't replacement level. It's playing like an average NBA player.
So like the fact that he's filling a true three M D role for a
better than expected team and playing like a league average player by that metric,
that's impressive. Over how much time he's spent on the court, the thing
for me is so the the I don't know, I'm surprised at how much
he's defended point guards and he's done it well on the games that I've seen
and so he seems like where we look at bay as okay, two through
four, the cell seems more like one through three, where maybe the bigger
guards and definitely the you know, the small forwards where maybe in time he
could covering more of them. Those might give him trouble. But he feels
like another rookie that you look at and say, oh, he's you know,
you can already kind of not kind of. I do trust him on
defense, and you're you know, he can be sneaky with his shot contest,
breaking up place from behind, feels like he's one of those guys.
I don't know how high end he'll be on this end, and you can
look at if we're trying to project, I don't know how people like.
There's always though, oh he spent two years in college. There's the stigma
as opposed to having the one. But he is still only twenty years old.
I don't know enough about his offense where I thought it look it's great.
He's setting forty percent of his threes. He's averaging one point three drives
per game, which just speaks to the fact that he's not putting the ball
on the floor A ton for the Spurs team they don't need. It's almost
yeah, And I think he can do more than that because I feel like
we saw him from the and you know hat Tip Adams Vanilla box end one
just fantastic writer. He does the He has his YouTube channel where he does
a lot of the scouting reports, so I you know, crash course and
knows leading up to the draft and looking at him, it felt like there
was more ball skills there. I don't know that I can give him credit
for that just yet, at least over Sadiq Bay. When Bay is the
guy doing it at the NBA level, again not efficiently, which older than
that higher volume role, and Vassell just simply hasn't had the chance to do
that. It wouldn't I did grappl I did consider him. Putting above Bay
is the moral of that long winded story. And Bay is also doing what
he's doing on a worst team, which I think matters like It's not neither
of these players is currently capable of elevating a team, but Sadiq Bay is
managing to expand what he's doing in a positive way and not necessarily looking over
extended on the Detroit Pistons Versus Devin Vassell fitting in with a contender, which
is more important but is probably not as difficult to do. Yeah, I
mean that makes sense. I'm curious as to whether, and maybe this is
just a question for later on, whether you like, who's the swing prospect
in this tier where we think they're gonna be role players? Who has the
starry ceiling. I don't know that we've reached them yet. I think it's
the next three. I was about to it's because we're on this guy,
which is the reason I was asking. I have at number nine, I
have Kyra Lewis, junior of the Pelicans. He was tough to plays.
He has played in thirty one games. He just hasn't played a ton this
year. The two things that well, I guess a few things that stand
out is this dude is fast. He is just a blur. And it's
not like, hey, Kyra Lewis needs to get going downhill. It's oh,
Kyra Lewis is there, and oh no, wait he's he's over there.
He can just get going from from stand stills. So that that's that
hyper intrigues me. I think he's going to end up being a pretty good
game manager. He's already as a scorer fairly efficient on the pick and roll,
does not turn over the ballaton. I don't know if he's ever going
to be the guy that that draws fouls he is what. I also think
he's encouraging six of seventeen on pull up threes this year. That's thirty five
point three percent, so it's a super small sample size. He I feel
like he could end up being a captain for a top five offense just looking
at what he's able to do there, So he might be. I mean,
I've already put him highest among the three guys that are coming up in
this redraft, but I do think of the players that we're about to talk
about where we might view or at least the next two, they have that
if something breaks right, they'll have an All Star appearance or more. I
might buy into him more than anyone else who's forthcoming, and probably even more
so than the seller Bay, just based off the type of roles that they're
going to play in the NBA. I think you're right that if I had
to pick anyone from the remaining portion of this class to have that best in
class ceiling, Kyra Lewis would be my choice. But I think that his
floor is also lower, just because we've seen a lot of players like that
where they're ridiculously fast there, they look like they should be talented scores,
they seem to have good passing vision, Like the name Brandon Jennings is popping
to mind here. I'm not saying that they're they're the same, but like
I can see that kind of career are for Kyra Lewis junior as well,
even though I can also see him developing into an All Star like that upside
is definitely there and it's tantalizing. I did have him at number ten and
I had Denny Ava at number nine. I don't think his ceilings is high,
and I don't think anyone ever thought that, because his case going into
the draft was that he's this pro's pro already who can come in and make
an impact and you know that he's going to be good. He's not going
to be great, but you know he's going to be good. And I'm
not sure that that evaluation has changed that much. I think that part of
the reason he struggled is just the Wizard's effect as they're trying to figure out
like what direction they're going and how they're going to make this Russell Westbrook,
Bradley beal backcourt work while they also deal with injuries and occasionally have to try
to get him into a bigger role than he's ready for. But even though
he's only shooting thirty two point six percent from three point range, which is
probably the most disappointing number for him, there aren't many things that he does
poorly. Like I watch him and I see a quality defender, even on
another atrocious defensive team. He knows where to go to fill lanes in transition,
he knows when to cut and when to spot up, like he is
already that the player who I think he was billed as coming into the draft,
who had that professional experience contributing on a high level, competitive team and
important moments. And even though he has been worse than expected to this point,
hence him falling in this redraft, I still don't know that I'm any
less sold that he's high enough sealing that I still wanted to hire. He
does feel like he's eventually going to be that we've said, and how many
times like these sort of comprehensive guys who maybe they're not going to be stars
superstars, like a Tyris Alibert and or Patrick Williams. It feels like he
could get there. Because I agree with everything you said. I guess I'm
just reticent to believe he's going to get the role that I think he needs
because I do feel like he needs to operate with the ball on his hands
more. And again, I don't want to interpret his rookie season as this
end all be all, but over eighty one percent of his shots have come
off assist this year, and I think that's just the effect of Hey Bradley
beyond hustle Westbrook on this this Wizards team. I do think the efficiency will
climb. He's already a fifty four point eight percent on two pointers. He
doesn't get to the foul line enough for me to read too much into him
shooting sixty five point four percent. That I think you have to believe will
come up. It's I think what's gonna be huge for his career if he's
gonna stay in Washington at least for the receivable future, is do the flashes
that you're seeing off the ball where it looks like he's in the right spots
or he can sort of duck in from the corner, Like is he going
to start converting on those or doing those more, doing those, finishing those
plays more consistently, I guess would be the best best way to put it.
The one thing I would say that has shocked me is I didn't think
he was going to be this good on defense. And I don't know if
I was just stereotype typing him there, but he can move a lot better
on the defensive end than I thought. And so you're I don't know that
he's ever going to be this, you know, net plus defender. I
certainly don't think he's gonna be making defense teams. But he's six nine and
he sort of knows how to use it, particularly when he's you know,
excuse me as my throat is being cleared there. I feel like he knows
how to use his sage to his advantage when he is going to be both
honor away from the ball. And then I trusted more as a one on
one defender than I ever thought that I would, not just as a rookie.
But trying to project forward, yeah, I think I'm gonna defer you
here though. And we can put Kyra Lewis Junior at number nine in our
consensus redraft for two reasons one is it would be hypocritical of me not to
do that. Because my buddy Shashank and I, who co manage a basketball
team within a multi sport fantasy league, we just dropped Danny Avia from our
roster and we drafted him as a potential keeper, and I think that was
an indication to me that, like, he doesn't have as high as ceiling
as I originally thought, which is probably enough to drop him below Kyra Lewis
junior here because I don't think I value to Sealing highly enough. I just
thinking about it again, like I view Davis Sell Lewis and Obvia and our
next guy all in the same tier, and it's sort of this mishmash of
upside and reliable floors. But we're still talking about guys we probably don't expect
to be All star caliber players, in which case I think I still want
to value the upside more because those high floor role players are are easier to
find. I also think maybe this is oversimplifying it, but I think he
is just inherently Kyra Lewis that is going to inherently have more control over his
whatever offense he is long term than where Denny obvious you're probably looking at.
Most likely in many cases, i'd be shocked if he's ever just the guy
that's running the offense right lock it in. Yeah, So this one,
I think we're about This one, I think is where we're we're about to
divide a little bit because I know I have this next person is not who
you have? Is are we up to you? Or may by the way,
where are you here with the odd number? So this is going this
is going to be a divergence from what you have. I have Jaden McDaniels
here. I am fascinated by him to no end. The things he is
doing already on defense as a rookie. He has defended some number one options.
He has defended just all these different types of positions. His health defense
is really good, which I feel like around the basket and that's just not
red you necessarily see a rookie making at this stage. He also just has
you know, let's use throw the word optionality out here. He can defend
one through four, it feels like at this point and I have, you
know, and just looking at some of his just defensive vitals, he is
allowing a port to shoot fifty two point three percent at the rim this season,
which is a top twenty mark among everyone that's contested at least one hundred
shots. It's eighty two players that have contested at least one hundred shots at
the basket this season. I think he's wearing at there or is that number
off? Oh, I'm sorry. Among eighty six players who've contested more than
one hundred twenty five shots at the rim, he's just seventeenth there, And
just to put his fifty two point three percent percentage surrendered in perspective of each
a zoo Box is right below at fifty three point eight, and Robin Lopez
is just above him at fifty three point one, and so is Giannis fifty
three point one. That's just someone where it's like he feels like he's more
so, you know, looking at his build and then obviously his size six
nine, he's kind of like a tweeter big. He's more so a wing
than a big. But to have someone who can do that for you around
the basket is is just huge, especially in his role where I think the
wolves biggest position of need is that front court spot next to Towns. They
might have the answer. Jane McDaniels, I feel like, we can't discount
that enough. Offensively, I think he's going to be The question is where
does he sort of fit in? And it's definitely encouraging that he's shooting thirty
seven point seven percent from three this year. I wonder is he going to
be able to do more stuff? You know, you've seen him kind of
attack these open lanes and finish stronger at the rim. Is that something he's
going to be able to do in higher volume might be worth watching? I
will say that I don't know if this is like an underrated part of his
game, but he has more assist just than I thought. I didn't think
he was averaging over an assist per game. So he has forty four assists
to twenty seven turnovers, which is better than I would have expected from him.
His swing here is going to be what does he become on offense where
Look, he's fifty four point two true shooting right now. That is fairly
substantially how about that phrasing below league average, and for the types of shots
he's most likely going to take, you want to see him hit more than
or do you want to see him hit probably a little bit more than fifty
one point four percent of his twos at the moment because he is taking about
twenty five percent of his shots within three feet. But this just looks like
someone who is going to be a glue guy long term on really good teams.
And we're at the point I don't really know that we can swing on
star potential here unless you disagree. But that's why I have Jaden McDaniel,
So yes, I'm just I'm endlessly fascinated by him. I get it.
I don't have any arguments against it, even though I did have Jaden McDaniels
and my honorable mentions just outside my lottery. But I am going to swing
for the stars here with Alexey Pakachevski, where the numbers don't back that up,
like he's barely clearing thirty percent from the field and twenty percent from three
point range. But then you just watch him play and you're like, I
might need to take a chance on that, Like I'm not sure I care,
because this is still a true seven footer, lanky as hell, who's
lofting up four threes a game and attacking the basket with these weird shot put
lay up attempts and passing fancy passes all over the court and playing like pretty
competent defense both around the rim and at the perimeter, like there's enough there
that numbers be. I am like, I want to take a chance on
this guy. The thunder are with you thirty nine point six. True.
You're giving him some serious run too, which I think says something. He
said running. It might just say that they're trying to tank, but it
says something, and it's they're like, yeah, they started to give him
serious run. But even when he was only playing in some small birds,
he was not shy about firing away. I'm just concerned, Like I refuse
to believe that he's one hundred and ninety pounds, Like I just I refuse
to believe it. And so how do you know he weighed in with bricks
in his pants for sure? Yeah, I just want to me he was
wearing cinder block shoes too. I just want to I just wanted to clarify
that. I'm just curious. Look, the inefficiency doesn't bother me, but
there's like a lot of turnover stuff there too with him, and that might
just be pretty. No it's not pretty, but if you want a big
with that ball skills, I get why he's so tantalizing. It's just tough
for me to envision what the best case scenario of his is because what is
he on defense? To you defense? It doesn't it feel like kind of
a situation where he's a helper that he might be better off sort of guarding
like wings as opposed to bigs. Maybe I'm just over exaggerating, kind of
like I almost feel like if he could be like a Dwight Powell like defensive
role where he's definitely better in that help role. He can switch, you
don't necessarily want him to, and he's gonna be exposed as the primary rim
protector. Look, he did have Maybe there, maybe I'm just underrating.
I have him as an honorable mention, So he's not in my top fourteen.
Maybe I'm just a playmaking seven footer. What does he see? Seven?
Was he seven? One? Oh? He's a seven footer exactly a
playmaking seven footer where it looks like he's a wing when he's dribbling. If
the shots started to start to go down and he cuts down on his turnovers,
I get why it's so intriguing. I just maybe I maybe I just
I don't think there is a comparison is the issue, like he's very rarely
does a player come around where you're like, I haven't seen that before.
Yeah, and maybe I just don't have the foreslight that you and Sam Presty
do. I think that's what it is. That's people have always called me
Sam for that reason. How do we settle this today? That's blatantly false.
I have no idea. I think we should. Probably I'll defer to
you because your eye openly said that I'm not betting on I'll do this.
We can make a deal. We can. I'll give you Jaden McDaniels at
eleven if we can take Pakashevski at twelve. Okay, I mean, if
you're gonna that's fine, because who I have a twelve? I'd be okay,
bumping, Yeah, okay, let's do that. McDaniels at eleven,
Pakashevski at twelve? Who did you have at thirteen? We might end up
having to do that again. What do you mean like our bargaining because I'm
not sure we're going to be involve I thought you met the poke WHU segment
and oh no, no, we nailed that one. So he was my
twelve. But he's now my thirteen has been vain, definitely build as a
shooter, and he is certainly a shooter. He has hit his threes at
a good clip. He's also hit some not a ton of them, but
he's shown that he can hit you know, some off the dribble threes.
That is just a hugely valuable skill we've talked about. I don't know if
he falls into this category, but we've talked about how the Grizzlies have needed
that, like building block wing forever, probably even since before Rudy Gay was
there. I don't know if he's that guy. I don't know if I
view him in the same or in that vein defensively, but it does feel
like he has a lot to offer on the offensive end, aside from the
shoot where it's yeah, you know what, he'll be able to attack some
clothes outs and he might be able to generate some more of his shots from
the perimeter. No, I don't think you're ever going to turn to him
as anything close to a primary ball handler, but he is he also a
guy who in that six five six six range, Is he gonna make your
defense? No? But is he gonna hurt it? This feels like he
could typify the the three and D archetype with a little bit extra to offer.
I was I struggled with this one because I wanted to have Desmond band
there. He was within my lottery, but he was at the very end
of it. I was totally on the Desmond Bane bandwagon going into the draft.
I thought that he should have gotten lottery consideration. Then I wanted to
draft him for that aforementioned fantasy team then, and he's done nothing but impressed
with his shot, and I agree with you that I still think there's that
three D, three and D potential there. I did have Isaiah Stewart pencil
did at number twelve, though, just because he is just this absolute bundle
of energy on both ends of the floor that I think, properly harnessed,
could be really valuable. I'm not sure that I truly buy the jumper.
He's made ten of twenty three threes, but he's only made sixty seven percent
of his free throws, and those don't really square to get other for a
raw big man, but the willingness to even take them at this stage is
impressive. So I think, like I think, I'm good with Desmond Vane
at twelve, just because I strongly considered that. But I'm really intrigued by
Isaiah Stewart And it's another one of those battle, those internal battles where are
we valuing the higher floor or the higher ceiling? Because I think that Baine
definitely satisfies the higher floor and Stewart does the higher ceiling, and we've deferred
to the higher ceiling in the past, but is it worth doing that here?
So if you but Verry scatter Brand, if you bought into Isaiah Stewart
being this floor spacing five long like for his career, if you trusted his
jumper more, I'll be willing to defer. I'll give you start at thirteen.
Is Joel Embi at a floor spacing pick, Yes, but look at
the volume he's been and he's also doing face up things that Isaiah Stewart is
not valid counter argument, so I would be cool, you know, if
you want to maybe talk about to someone else, be twelve. I just
feel like Baine is going to have I'm just looking at his jumper like that's
just gonna be the more desirable skill than this. This firecracker who look at
Isaiah Stewart is you know, he's been not for a rookie, not too
bad as a rim protector. He leads all rookies in offensive rebounded rebounding percentage
at twelve point five, and so he's gonna get those second chance opportunities.
He's been mega efficient as the role guy, and I would think that I
don't know if if we can guarantee it goes up, but as Detroit sort
of improves, you should have more space to sort of operate with. Though
no, so maybe even that improves. I just feel like Desmond Baine kind
of has the more desirable skill set, and so I would probably defer to
him at twelve. I had Stewart at fourteen. We should say thirteen.
That was my bad. I said that earlier, but we had pocket shots
get twelve, so this is thirteen. Yeah, so if you want to
go thirteen fourteen, because you will. I did have someone else. I
was actually struggling. Let's let's run through the other options, because we had
Desmondaine and Isaiah Stewart. Seems like the two favorites. Maybe, but other
guys that I mentioned and think are at least deserving of a shout out here.
I had, you know, I had to give a shout out to
Grant Riller, who's killing it in the in the G League, but not
serious. I'm contractually obligated. I'm not sure who the contract is with,
but there we are Obi Toppin, who has been disappointing, but I think
there's still so much offensive upside there. They have to give him the ball
more they do, and they're just not set up to do that. Like
on a different team, I think that he would be looking a lot more
promising than he is right now. Cole Anthony, I think another really tough
role with the Magic, only going to get tougher after their post trade deadline
moves. But he's been important and has taken big shots and his playmaking looks
really good. He's been he's had a ferry just a huge shock creation burden
for them this year. I'm with you there. Peydon Pritchard has been a
ridiculously pesky defender, a good shooter, a good ball handler, just a
nice, reliable, like high end backup guard. Like I'm viewing him with
like a Monte Morris level career. So top five all time. Got it
absolutely was that the end of your HMS. No, I'm just you were
following up on him, and I was curious if you had anything to add
on that one. No, I would agree with you there. He was
actually of the well because someone or two players are actually getting bumped for me.
But he was the one that I had in my honorable mentions that was
the toughest to leave off. Yeah, yeah, that was Cole Anthony for
me. Tyrese Maxie just another scoring spark plug, but not as efficient or
talented at creating that open spaces at guys like quickly. He might end up
being just a more I might like his defense a little bit better than I
like the idea of him creating his own shot at every level, but the
fact that he can get and fire away from every level is important. I'm
just curious to see where his efficiency lands long term. And Yetta Kongwu,
who is still tantalizing because of the idea of him and we have not really
gotten to see the full picture because of foot injuries and just struggles to work
his way into the rotation for a team that wants to compete right right now.
And I don't even know how he looks at Atlanta moving forward, because
if they keep John Collins, which I would expect them to and click cappella
there. His minutes are going to be forever tat. You know, they
don't have to play John Collins at cent, but just having those two bigs
in front of him are gonna artificially defleet his minutes. Xavier Tillman Senior,
just the classic, plays like a veteran rookie who's good at everything, but
not great at anything, especially good on defense. Yeah, he's surprised me
this season. He would be my HMS two. I didn't really give him
consideration for the top four team though, did you not? Really? He
was on the back end of it, as was my final guy on the
list, which is Killy and Hayes, where I just I haven't seen enough
to evaluate him. I liked him a lot based on what I saw playing
internationally before he got to the NBA, but he looked awful. He just
couldn't generate any space, he couldn't make anything. I'm sure some of that
was just a slump that made him look worse than he actually is, but
the idea of him is still very tantalizing. I want to give a shout
out to the only one that you missus Jawn Smith. I'm actually just kidding.
I thought that was I thought Phoenix blew it with that pick, but
he did have In the preseason, one of the co hosts of the Timeline
podcast sent me a clip of him like doing this spin move off the drive
when he finished at the rim. So clearly his ceiling is higher than that
of DeAndre Ayton. I don't mean to crabble over him. I'm just still
if the Knicks. If the Knicks weren't going to draft Tyrese Haliburton, Phoenix
was just the spot. I know you say anywhere was just the spot.
But learning under Chris Paul and Devin Booker, my god, I agree.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. But the one that you left off that I
actually had, and he was in my top fourteen originally. I really like
Isaac Okoro. I'm not sure what he is on offense. Get the concerns
you brought up pre podcast, which I'm sure to get into here. My
one pushback would be, while we don't know what he is offensively, and
I do think that Cleveland probably hasn't simplified his role enough just yet. He
has more ball skills and just better vision than I think you're talking about latist
table before we had started, and he's already just you know, a defensive
monster kindness. I'm not saying he's a defensive Player of the Year candidate,
but he's given them an actual point of attack defender who is really going to
compete, and he's defending primary ball handlers. He's going after shock creators a
ton. We've seen him kind of you know, float off the ball as
well, and chase around guys who're gonna be pinballing around the half court.
Two. I this is someone I think has an all defensive ceiling with tools
to actually use on offense. I don't. I think a big part of
it's going to be can he hit stand still threes at a decent clip?
But the other probably if you surround him with enough spacing, is this someone
who can actually attack himself. I don't want that to be the primal part
of his game, but I am. I think it probably comes down to
how deep do you think his offensive toolbox can be? And I would say
that he's more than just a niche guy who can't have the ball in his
hands and like Tible's going to fire up the occasional three. I struggled with
this one. I originally wrote him down in my honorable mentions and then cut
his name just because that list was getting too long, and immediately felt bad
about it, because, like you said, like he really is that good
on defense. I think he's one of the primary reasons that they got off
to such a hot start. Like we wanted to give so much credit to
that sexcellent backcourt, but he was really impactful too, because by taking on
tough assignments right from the start, he made things way easier on them and
allowed them to grow. That was definitely like this synergistic relationship that I don't
think we fully recognize at the time. But I am just I'm too concerned
about the offensive black holeness. I see what you're saying about the ball skills.
Other players have developed three pointers, but he's just been such a glaring
negative on that end of the floor that I don't think I can envision him
having a high enough ceiling to work his way into the lottery in this redraft.
To be clear, five years ago, sure, ten years ago,
certainly, but I think we've already seen the game evolve so much just with
the spread of three pointers, and you know, We're currently in the middle
of a weird season where like four of the top five offensive ratings in NBA
history are coming from this season, and part of that, I'm sure it
is just the lack of offense and offense being are the lack of off season
and offense being the easier thing to just kind of make up on the fly
rather than an established and disciplined defensive system. But we've also seen this in
previous recent seasons, where the top offenses are getting better and everyone's following suit
and the league average offensive rating is rising, And I just I'm not sure
you can play that much of an offensive liability on a good team if his
defense is going to end up if he's like this legitimate, just point of
attack. So what happens to Tony Allen in twenty twenty one? You think,
I mean Tony Allen was he was he was absolutely good enough to play,
would be in the starting lineup of a quality team. But is he
is Isaaca Cora going to be Tony Allen? Because even that version of Tony
Allen in today's NBA, when you're just not even remotely worried about him making
a three pointer and you can sag off from to the point that you clog
up everything. I just you're low low on his offense. Then, yeah,
that's the issue. I guess time will tell on that one. Were
there any players, because I have a few, I didn't consider them for
honorable mentions, But there are a few players that I'm just interested to see
get more opportunities. I don't know if they'll ever worked themselves in that conversation,
but just a few other guys that you looked at and were like,
they haven't played enough. I wouldn't put them in this conversation probably even if
they did. But whose careers you're just super intrigued by moving forward? Yeah,
Grant Riller, Zeke Zeke Naji is one. RJ. Hampton is one.
I want to see more from Vernon Carey, Yes, Malachi Flynn.
Yeah, look, I would love Robert Woodard's game, and he has played
a grand total of twenty six minutes so far. Yeah. RJ. Hampton,
I'm excited to See's only played two games in Orlando so far. I'm
very excited to see him get more run There. You mentioned Vernon Carrey Jr.
Has torn up the G League for much of this year and I wonder
if he's going to be in play is just one of the two primary bigs
in Charlotte next season, because every I think all their centers are basically free
agents, and I guess they'll probably resign Cody's eller, but are they gonna
pay one? And if they don't, Vernon Carrey Junior should get run Tayo
Maladone. There are a lot of names Tayo Maladone too, just someone who's
not shying offense might be able to run a competent second unit. And I
think if I had to pick like the one, and then I'm most intrigued
by as Malikai Flynn. If you were gonna talk about someone you want as
an air parent to Kyle Lowry or even Fred van Fleet. He's clearly not
as like fairly or just like strong as those two, but he competes on
defense and it feels like he can just adopt their personality there. And so
if he ever gets you know, maybe we'll see it this season, because
who knows what's going to happen with the Raptors this year. I still think
they're a really good team, which is the circumstances and brutalize them more than
most, but Malachi Flynn and I'm also a sucker for guys to come out
of San Diego State at this point, so fair, that's totally valid.
But yeah, let's I think we should finalize the last two spots, recap
the order, and then wrap up because we're going fairly long for rookies here
as we are wont to do. I will just quickly mentioned sabing Lee,
who can really get into the heart of defense, is more than I thought.
Not efficient there though, both cashus it's too Winston and Stanley want to
see more of them, all right, So what do you want to take
us through the order that we had? Well, what do we want to
do at thirteen and fourteen? Do we want to go with Baine and Stewart?
I think that's I think that's the right call. I don't know that
I feel I mean, you laid out a very you're at least in passion
case for Okoro, I feel like it's a little way off. But I
had Bain ahead of him and Stewart was right behind him for me, so
I'm fine leaving him out. I feel like that this might be the concession
if you give me Desmond bayin let's do that. So then to recap the
order, that means that going first overall in a total shock, we had
LaMelo Ball, followed by Tyrese Haliburton and Anthony Edwards Emmanuel Quickly at number four,
Patrick Williams at number five, James Wiseman at number six, Saedip Bay
at seven, Devin Vassell at eight, Kyra Lewis Junior at nine, Denny
Oddva at ten, Jaden McDaniels at eleven, a Letsay Pakashevski at twelve,
Desmond Being at thirteen, and Isaiah Stewart at fourteen. Yeah, I let's
see what the listeners think. Hopefully we didn't box this one too badly.
It got it was wicked hard after this it was so tough. But with
that, I think that's all we have to offer everyone. Please, please,
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