We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Jordan Boyd,
a staff writer here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the
show at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr
LST, and make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts. Today I'm
joined by John Lovell. He's the founder and CEO of the Warrior Poets Society.
John is a former war veteran and Special Operations soldier. After his military
service, he served as a Christian missionary in Central America. Full time.
Today he is a video content creator, public speaker, firearms trainer, and
home setter. John lives on a small farm in Georgia with his wife and
two sons. John, Welcome to the program, Jordan, thanks so much
for having me on. Good to be here. Well, you have a
new book out and the title is The Warrior Poet Way, A Guide to
Living Free and Dying Well. Block us through this Warrior Poet mindset. What
is it and what made you want to share with the rest of us?
Sure, I think it's desperately needed and it is an antidote. It is
a roadmap for many of those who have really lost the call in the direction
of masculinity in today's confused world. The big thrust of a warrior poet is
somebody who lives for higher purpose and is ready to sacrifice in the defense of
others. So they're lovers of truth and lovers of people and their defenders of
both. And so that's really the idea. It's a pretty broad umbrella that
encompasses all kinds of different creeds and philosophies and even theologies, though mine will
be more specific as I'll delve into in the book. I noticed when I
was looking through. I don't want to give too much of the book away,
but can you give us a brief overview of these ten guiding principles that
you say make a real man and sort of explain how you ended up on
ten in particular, tend's a nice even number. To really get into it.
I go in depth into what it means to be a warrior and how
to grow in that lifestyle, and also what it really means to be a
poet and why we should all be going in that way. I think people
tend to gravitate naturally toward one or the other. Some people are lovers,
but not fighters, as they'll say quickly. Other people are warriors and not
so much lovers. And so it is absolutely critical, crucial that folks should
be growing in one is the area that they are predisposed to, but also
the other one that is more unnatural. You're going to make an absolute wreck
of your life if you're not both a lover and a fighter, if you're
not a lion and a lamb, you need to be a warrior and a
poet. As a poet, you know someone who's a deep lover of people
and finds beautiful ways to tell the truth. If you really love people,
then you are willing to protect them, and so it naturally gravitates into a
warrior. And the warrior isn't just a merciless thug out there stacking bodies and
doing warrior type things. They love the people that they're protecting. They're standing
for something more important than themselves, and they're ready to sacrifice themselves in the
defense of others. Then so when you find somebody who is a great lover
of other people, oh, perfect love casts out all fear, they're able
to be energized and focus to be even better warriors. And so my contention
is that the warriors out there wouldn't in their zeal to meet the enemy on
a battlefield, whether that's an actual battlefield or more metaphorically, everywhere you go
in life, from the public squared academi to your vocation and even to deserts
abroad, it requires you to be able to be strong and hold the line
and to have that warrior tenacity, fearlessness and grit. And so I want
people to be able to be good warriors but not lose the things that they
love the most. The warrior is not naturally good at holding together dear relationships
or dating their wife and being emotionally vulnerable to their kids and pursuing the high,
vulnerable and introspective and humble parts of life that require you to really be
a good follower of God and to pour yourself out for causes greater than yourself.
And so I find that it is absolutely essential that we avoid the pendulum
swings to be kind of that stereotypical poet without being well balanced by warrior and
vice versa. That's so interesting, And you know, I really love what
you said about sacrifice. You obviously have you're acquainted with that idea because you
served in the Second Ranger Battalion. How do you think society has eroded or
neutered the idea of sacrifice? What effect does that have on culture, particularly
when it comes to men. It's an easy point to prove. All I
have to do is, like guys, open up Twitter and scroll for about
thirty seconds, and you're going to see the most defeat beta boys unimaginable to
our forbears in the past. And so it is easy to look anywhere and
see a great decline in masculinity. Certain traits of a man are certainly celebrated
in mainstream culture, and those are, hey, be funny and be nice,
and be introspective, be emotional, get in touch with your feminine side.
And we've done it so well. Our feminine side has become our dominant
side, and masculinity lays in ashes in our rear view mirror. And so
it's important that we trudge ancient paths back when men had grit and daring and
boldness in a sense of leadership and adventure. Those are absolutely critical, as
it is strong men that will help build societies and protect them. In the
firearms space, and I teach people gunfighting and online classes and also in physical
classes and the big idea there's the only bad way to stop or the only
way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a
gun. It's not gun free zone signs that do anything. Otherwise, we
would protect our politicians with gun free zone signs instead. All of our politicians,
even when they're against firearms, they're all protected by dangerous men carrying guns.
Absolutely. My husband and I actually own a gun store, and this
idea of the protector comes up a lot when people come in the store and
want to buy something. It's a lot of times men who want to protect
their feel or protect their wives, or even equip their families and wives to
protect themselves. And I think a lot of times people throw around this term
toxic masculinity far too often, and a lot of times it's aimed at men
like you or my husband, who have a distinct desire to protect and love
and provide. Do you think true toxic masculinity exists, and if so,
what does it actually look like. I think it's really a silly term to
distinguish masculinity as something toxic without the same moment recognizing well, femininity can be
really toxic. It's just whenever you leave the good moral bounds of femininity or
masculinity, that something can be toxic. However, we shouldn't relegate it into
the different you know, the two different genders. Instead, you could just
say toxic people and clear it up very well. But to try to taint
the idea of masculinity by saddling it beside the word toxic is really, I
think, a socio political play to undermine the strengths of masculinity wholesale. And
so I'm not really buying it and going for it. I get that accusation
a good bit, and they're all buy people who don't know me. It's
like, my family would never ever dream of castigating me that way. Is
My kids don't fear me. They love me. My wife too, I'm
pouring my life out for her and exalting her, and she flourishes under my
sacrificial leadership. And so I think it's a big misnomer. And the whole
idea is to build a caricature of real masculinity so that you can disparage and
marginalize men that are truly strong and dangerous. Obviously I'm not a man,
but I think so many women out there do value and cherish that strong man
persona. What role do you think women play in the man quest to live
up to his potential? And how has your wife maybe helped you on your
warrior poet journey. She's been quintessential to it. In my book, I
go into all kinds of aspects of warrior, also going to all aspects of
poet as well. And so I'm talking about raising little poets and I want
to make them strong, but I also want to make them strong in all
the right ways. It's not just physicality and your ability to have grid and
overcome fear as something I talk about a lot in the book, but it's
be able to foster healthy relationships and strengthen our minds through good education and deep
seated philosophy and theology of life. And so that's what I really want to
do. My wife is strong in ways that I am not, and she's
built different differently than me. I've been given strength to help bear up my
own burdens and also to have strength to bear up the burdens of others.
I'm supposed to be protector and provider and also help my family flourish as I
pour myself out for them. Protecting them, loving them, serving them constantly,
and I'm also leading them. That is my primary role. My wife
has been given front natural attributes as of a woman to be able to capture
my heart. If I'm the head, then she's the neck that's turning man
man alive. My wife has an entirely different strength with that of her lashes
and a smile on her lips. I'm ready to move mountains for that girl
who is the constant source of encouragement and unconditional love and affection. She's the
one that nurtures my young sons as well. So I make them tough,
and she keeps them alive, you know. And so she's also the primary
educator right now until they get into their teenage years, and that flips over
to me. But she really makes our home and she loves that role.
And she wasn't really trained up that way. She was really on more of
the feministic track. And now she'll describe herself as a recovering feminist and far
more chauvinistic, and that she just bought so many lies of the feministic movement
that would have her think that a nine to five career is the greatest calling
a woman can have rather than loving, adoring, and flourishing her own family.
And I certainly wouldn't disparage any woman that wanted to go out and earn
and hustle and career it up. And so I'm like, hey, more
power to you, rock on, gal, do whatever you think best.
But I would say there's no higher calling than to love, adore, and
raise a family. We talk about that a lot over here at the fudder.
Let's just the different lies that are sold about the different sexes. You
know, men aren't allowed to stand up for their families. Women shouldn't be
staying home and pouring into their families. And it's something that has I think
come to the forefront, specifically in recent years as the culture war is heightened
and we have these ridiculous arguments over sex and gender and what is a man
and what is a woman? And I think there's been a really strong push
towards the feminization of men, and not just in societal roles necessarily, but
also in body. I mean, America is the least fit it's ever been.
Male testosterone levels are measuring dangerously low. And you mentioned in your book
that men who don't find a challenge worth of strength will turn to over indulgence
of their mind, their body, and their soul through various activities. You
know, the gem NFL whatever. But what kind of transformation do you think
someone must go through to sort of refine that mind, body and soul connection
and get back on the right track of what their true potential really is.
I think progressivism has progressed too far in the wrong direction, and men and
women would do very well to unearthed and retread the ancient paths. It's now
there's a war with all things of the past, all wisdom of the past,
as we think we know better, all of a sudden after untold amounts
of thousands of years of family structures working quite well, not without a problem,
of course, which the progressives would rightfully point out. But it's not
to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. And that's
exactly what is happening. Men are built differently than women. They just are.
They're not any better, They're just strong in different ways than women,
and vice versa, and we should glory in that, not try to make
one into the other. Such absolute fiction can only be entertained so long without
the complete total degradation of our society. And I don't really know anybody on
the left or the right that doesn't agree that society is breaking down in some
really bad ways and definitely needs fixing. And so I think we need to
tread some of the ancient wisdom of the past. I think men need to
refuse to be declaud defanged and newtered. We need to find causes worth fighting
for and living for. We need to glory and strength and boldness and leadership
and be unapologetic for those things. The Washedout on Wall Street podcast with Chris
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get your podcast. What would you say are the top priorities for a warrior
poet. I mean, you've talked a lot about family and leadership inside the
home, But what does that look like when you've sort of settled what your
role is inside the family, how do you take that beyond the walls of
your house. Sure, I think everywhere I look, I see a fight
now, and I don't want to fight. I really just like you know,
tyrants to back up off of me and let me and my family enjoy
our homestead, our animals, and go to work. But instead I'm forced
into a world where everyone's offended about everything. We have one side wanting to
completely eliminate and censor the ability for other people to say just what has been
espoused as universal truth for as long as history books have been recorded. We
want to overthrow all that. And so one thing we can do outside of
our house is to refuse to be self censored. Now, don't don't back
down and allow people to fit you with the muzzle of political correctness so that
you don't speak out for the things you know are true and the things you
hold dear. It is time, I believe, to not be just sitting
back, living and letting live. But in the war of ideas to go
on the offense and say, hey, this stuff going on is not okay.
Drag shows for little kids and minor attracted persons and abortion, these are
all insidious evils, and I believe that they should be taken to task.
You know, one of the signs of a society that's going downhill, like
you mentioned, and like a lot of Americans feel, is that everything is
politicized, and that includes this idea of masculinity. Right. Why do you
think that is and what would have to happen for there to be a pivot.
I see a lot of people on the right bracing this idea of being
a man and pushing forward for strength in the home and outside of the home.
But you don't see as much as a push on the left for that.
So what would have to change for it to not become a politicized issue?
I think the left is obsessed with power. They claim to not be,
but everything I see is obsession with power. Is all of our institutions,
from Hollywood to the legacy media to academia, all of it is ruled
by the left. I don't think they represent the main percentage of the population,
but they certainly dominate our institutions of power, and so I think that
we definitely need to have a rising up in those areas of life and to
be able to redeem in our own spheres strength of purpose and resolve in all
kinds of areas of intellectually and socially spiritually, to allow our character to have
fresh fire. So we'd be able to speak to that also physical strength too.
But I think part of the play of those ruling elites are would be
leaders, is to really neuter masculinity tyrants in the absence of strong men that
refuse to bow the knee, and to allow them to get away with whatever,
can get away with whatever. And so what people in power want is
a more and more power, and so strong men standing up and saying absolutely
not represent I believe the greatest force that would keep them in check. And
so by changing sociologically what a man is, so that the goal post has
essentially been moved, you can weaken masculinity and take out any threat to tyrants
growing faster in power. I notice in studying the rise and decline and ultimate
fall of different civilizations that societies will slowly erode over time, and then toward
the end there's a precipitous picking up of the pace, things start to fall
apart much much quicker. I noticed that now in our new cycle, something
that will be absolutely assinine, that has everyone up in arms. It's the
biggest deal this week and next week it's almost completely forgotten as some new travesty
and some new scandal takes the spotlight and the public memory to even remember what
was happening a month ago. That was outrageous. We can't even do it,
and it's indicative of the fact that we are declining at an alarming rate.
We need strong men more than ever to stand up absolutely. And I
was reading through your introduction and I noticed this one section. You say,
we may differ on politics, theologies, and personal philosophies of life, but
if you can rally around living for a higher purpose, in sacrificing in defense
of others, then this is your invitation to join us. You talk a
lot about your faith journey and how that has affected the way you've evolved as
a man. Do you think faith is a necessary component for a man to
realize his full potential or do you see it playing out in people who maybe
don't have faith? So I can answer this a couple of different ways.
If I'm talking to a very broad audience like I am in the book,
I'd say, yeah, I think you need to live for higher purpose.
That's part of how we become strong in virtue is to realize, no,
pride isn't the center of morality, it's the center of immorality. If you
want to live for other people, that is a humble, humble thought,
and your faith journey is the main fuel that can help power that. If
you don't have that, then it's not humility you exalt. It's pride that
you exalt. And then if it's pride, then the self is the highest
ideal, and out of that the self will. That breeds selfishness, that
breeds arrogance, it breeds hubris and narciss it's all the most loathsome parts of
humanity, which for ages past we all recognize with depravity. And now we
have not only our pride month, there's push to have it up pride season.
Pride goes before a fall. Pride is not a good thing. It
is an anti virtue, and so it's something that we absolutely in our faith
journey. Oh, we definitely need that now more specifically and more narrowly.
I don't believe all faiths are correct any more than I believe that all answers
are correct. Two plus two it equals four. And some people might say,
oh, well, that is very very intolerant of all the infinite amount
of numbers that could be correct. You say four is the sow. I
say, yeah, Truth by definition is narrow and exclusive, and so all
religions similarly can't be correct. They're either all wrong or ones right, and
all the others are wrong. I believe that the Christian world view is the
correct one. Two thousand and twenty three years ago, something happened that would
break our calendar in two in usher in the largest religion the world has ever
known, And right there, smack dab in the middle of history stands Jesus
Christ, who wrote in the Sands of the Earth a line. And I
believe that God was creator of the heavens and earth. Mankind has fallen,
cannot fix themselves and cannot be right with God. And so God himself stepped
out of heaven, lived the life we should have lived, died the death
in our place for us, so that we could find salvation through Jesus Christ
alone. And so I would say Jesus is the consummate warrior poet. He
is my ideal, he is who I would like to be exactly like,
and he's who really powers every aspect of my life. You wrap up the
book with this idea that is present throughout all of the principles you lay out,
and that is live free and die well within the context of especially what
you were just talking about with the Christian worldview and your faith and what it
means to sort of achieve that higher purpose. What does it mean to die
well? So we're going to die one day exactly as we lived, either
well or poorly, and we get to decide what that's like. Now if
we're just checking our technology all the time, we get off work which we
are just kind of begrudgingly going through, hoping that one day we put a
nest egg aside that is large enough so we can kick up our feed on
a beach in Tahiti with Margarita's well, you're going to find at the end
of that road is a squandered and hollow life. People on their deathbed.
If you pay any attention to what very old folks are calling for, they're
really wanting their relationships healed. They want more time with the ones they love.
Those are their biggest regrets. It's not that they didn't log more hours
at the office. And while I certainly would like people to go out there
in their vocational areas and just kill it and do really well and be a
high producer, I don't believe we should do at the expense of the more
important things. In facing my own death many different times on a battlefield,
it really brought into sharp laser focus the things that are the most important things
in life. If we're not extremely careful, we can react to the tyranny
of the urgent and all of our to do lists. And if we're not
careful, all of our time, our energy, our minds, our hands,
our bank accounts, all of it really goes towards vain pursuits that in
the moment satisfy and in the long run it robs us of all real joy
and purpose. And I urge my readers to not fall for it. And
I'm doing a poor job. I believe in breaking all this sent It takes
a book to say what trying to do in a very quick, thirty thousand
foot overview. But I want people to be able to live a life that
is full, so that when they reach the end of their days, whether
that's a very short time from now, which nobody knows when they're end is
coming, but I do know we need to be ready. Even a warrior
on a battlefield needs to be ready to face their end at any moment.
If they're not and they get in a highly scary situation and realize that they're
not ready to die, they have unfinished business, they have unresolved conflict.
They didn't answer the hardest questions on what happens when you die? And is
this even worth dying for? And those unanswered questions can rob a soldier of
all the focus and sacrifice and courage that they need in the moment on a
battlefield. And so it is ever so important that for someone to be able
to die well, they need to live a life worthy of the calling that
they have received. That's great. I know one aspect of your legacy that
you discuss is your children. And I really loved the Raising Little Poets section
of your book. Specifically, there is a passage titled Revolution Starts at Home.
And I think our listeners have heard and seen over the last two years
how radical this war on the family and on the home has become. What
are some practical tips that you can share with our listeners who are trying to
raise their children right and well and sort of in the warrior poet way.
One thing I'll say right now is going to sting, but a need everyone
listening and to understand that this is coming from a place of care, and
it's definitely going to present immediate challenges. But if you would like to raise
your kids well, you have to actually raise them yourself. That means,
do not give your children any longer to the government. Get them out of
government school some people call public schools, but their government schools, and you
need to take them out right now. This is a fallen institution that is
teaching all kinds of outrageous and terrible things. Now we see it. However,
even two decades ago it was happening. And we know that as a
result because the millennial generation, my generation and Generation Z is walking away from
their parents' values. And many parents get caught on their heels and say,
what on earth why do they believe like this? I raise them better than
this. And here's the part that stings. If you were sending them to
school all day and then maybe they're enjoying extracurricular activities and then you gather around
the dinner table for an hour or so before they rush up to do homework.
Understand, you're not raising your kids at all. It's not enough just
not seeing them enough. Their peers and their teachers are really raising them.
Television and social media is raising them. And so they're needs to be enough
time with our kids so that they can catch the values and the education that
you have. Now a lot of people feel unfit for that, And there's
all kinds of ways I could answer this. I'm just centering in on this
one area. I go into a bunch of areas in my book, But
I will say that there's this fallacy that only the experts can really educate our
kids. But I would challenge that way of thinking and say, hey,
mom, dad, what educational tools and what skills are you using right now
to make it in life? Those are the things that your kid needs to
be educated in. They don't need calculus. They need to see how you
resolve conflict. They need to see how Daddy goes to work at a sales
shop and does sales salesman never start teach them sales, teach them rhetoric and
Samanta's help them fall in love with reading the live life, vibrantly, show
them how a good family should helpfully and vibrantly be spending time together. Show
them how you do life and business. You can teach kids what you know,
but you can only replicate who you are and so, and you can't
possibly replicate who you are if you're sending them off to be educated elsewhere.
And so it is really a new experiment in the timeline of the world to
send the kids to government to be able to be educated. It was always
the churches or the homes that do it. Now when I say home education,
there's all kinds of amazing homeschool co ops and whatnot where you can band
together with all kinds of like minded families, and the movement has exploded.
People are realizing that it is actually very fulfilling and far easier to educate your
kids than they ever dreamed in times past. And also say, hey,
there are some private schools out there that would be really good. There's also
a great amount of private schools that are really public school curriculum which added a
chapel service, and really they're not moving the needle. You're just spending a
lot to have the same result as the government school. So really lean into
your private school and make sure it is a good one. I'm totally biased
towards homeschooling. I was homeschooled all twelve years and then went off to college
and it was a wonderful experience for me and my family. But I have
to say, I mean, yeah, you said it's an experiment, and
it's a failing experiment. It's one that we've seen, especially in the last
couple of years, just completely crumbled to the ground, and that's why so
many people are fleeing. And I think that's kind of the exact downfall as
you can trace a lot of these societal issues back to what you talk about
in the book, and that's the character that comes specifically from the head of
household, the character building, the integrity, the pouring into the family aspect.
And one thing that I've found interesting in recent years in this space and
conversation is voices like Andrew Tate have risen in some circles as sort of the
authority on masculinity. But his attempt to explain gender roles for me and I
think many others fall short, especially because of his willingness to sexually exploit women
and all of that. So I'm curious, what about the warrior poet mindset
should appeal to men who can't find adequate guidance on sustainable manliness through shock jocks
like Tate. Yeah, I would say Tate gets a lot of stuff right,
especially on the warrior aspect. But Tate is not moving toward happily ever
after with the blushing bride of his youth and kids that adore him, all
the stuff that's going to matter the most in the back half of your life.
Tate is absolutely incorrect on and too many young men who see the strength
and you know, the outward strength anyway, and the daring and the leadership.
Those are attractive qualities, and so he gets quite a following, but
people don't realize that he's lacking the stuff that matters the most. And if
you follow Tate, you're going to destroy your life. Young men, you
can do better than that of Tate. Will never know the outrageous joy and
fulfillment that I get from my family and from my faith. He's never going
to know it. Last question here, I guess I'm just curious for the
people who have not had the benefit of having a warrior poet leading their home
or their family. What can the rest of us do to sort of advance
society towards embracing this this outpouring of like I said, character building, integrity,
and manliness that we know scientifically and emotionally benefits everyone. I mean,
when men are in charge and doing well and pouring into the lives of their
families and supporting their wives and kids, we see the benefits and the blessings
of that. So how can we advance that idea outside of the home and
encourage institutions to sort of adopt that framework. All of our institutions of power
are really downstream of culture. Andrew Breitbart says politics were our downstream of the
sociological aspects of culture. And so one thing that we can all do right
now is to stop self censoring. We can speak the truth. We can
stand for our values and let the capsule lock commandos with their pink hair go
rage tastic on us and stop caring, go on the offense. Refuse to
just sit back and let all of the public debate go to them because we're
so afraid to have something to have any negative consequences. If I think it
was Mark Twain who said no one's hated so much as someone who speaks the
truth. Actually that was Plato, I think paraphrase later by Twain. Anyway,
I think that's absolutely true. The battle lines are drawn up real clear.
And what all it I think Edmund Burke all that it takes for evil
to triumph is for good men to do or say nothing, and so go
on the offensive. Guys, don't be afraid to breach uncomfortable subjects with friends
and family and co workers, and understand in trying to preserve the most important
aspects of life and culture, it's going to cost you something personally. You
need to know that and be willing to pay that. Some of us are
still thinking that we could just keep a low profile, let someone else do
the fight, let someone else be canceled, let someone else say the hard
things, and we'll sit back and we'll just kind of enjoy the status quo
and hope optimistically that all will return to normal, and it won't. We
need all hands on deck to engage in the battlefield of ideas wherever you can
find it, and speak the truth in love. We at the Federalist are
huge fans of the truth and huge fans of what you're doing. John,
So thank you so much for coming on the show today and talking with our
listeners. We appreciate it. I deeply appreciate Jordan, thanks so much for
the time you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm
George Lloyd, a staff writer at The Federalist. Until next time, The
lovers of freedom and anxious for the brain right