WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:08.919 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Being Frank. 2 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:15.759 We're the only way to be is Frank. Well everyone, and welcome to 3 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:20.000 Being Frank. We're the only way to be is well Frank. I'm your 4 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.000 host, Frank Laguna. We'd like to thank you for joining us here on 5 00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:28.160 what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. We know your time is 6 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:33.200 valuable and competition is fears so many podcasts, but we like to think of 7 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:38.399 ourselves as an alternative to well that noise. So we really appreciate you sharing 8 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:42.280 some of your day with Being Frank. Now we se why from Hudson River 9 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:46.159 Radio dot com in historic Stony Point, New York, and that will be 10 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:51.439 part of our discussion tonight. And you know the mailman because he always delivers. 11 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:55.719 Mister Neil Richter is our engineer. He keeps us streaming. I say, 12 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:58.520 he drives the bus. He'll actually be talking to him at the end 13 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:03.000 of the program too, so they very dulce at tones and that you'll recognize 14 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.079 at the end of the program, but that's for later. Remember, Hudson 15 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:12.319 River Radio dot Com is our homebase. You can download us wherever and whenever 16 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:19.359 you listen to your favorite podcasts. That includes iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple Speaker, 17 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.400 and all the others. You can find the links in our Hudson River 18 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:26.280 Radio Facebook page. It's public easy to get to. Please think about becoming 19 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.959 a subscriber and leaving us a commentor too. 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That will become 29 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:15.479 apparent why it's important in just a minute. Twenty ninth In the two hundred 30 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:21.360 and forty seven years since the Declaration of Independence was signed by fifty six in 31 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.080 trepid men. The fourth of July has been celebrated as the birth of ordination 32 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:31.400 with parades, patriotic concerts, barbecues, and of course spectacular fireworks. But 33 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:37.479 what was that very first Independence Day like, especially in the colonies, How 34 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.759 were they informed? How was the news received? Did people rejoice in their 35 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:45.759 new birth of freedom? Or did they fear the potential consequences? Well, 36 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.439 there are a few people who I can think of more qualified to answer those 37 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.599 questions than a man who runs the oldest tavern in America and a place that 38 00:02:53.759 --> 00:03:00.520 was absolutely pivotal in the very creation of the United States, and himself a 39 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.080 tavern keeper. But he's another one of our renaissance men. He's a world 40 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:09.280 class rower, a motorcycle racer, a pilot, and a tavern keeper of 41 00:03:09.319 --> 00:03:15.120 the seventy six House, which is certified as the oldest tavern in America. 42 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:17.719 Rob Norton, welcome back. You've been all once before. I'm being Frank, 43 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:22.800 welcome back again. Thank you. I'm so glad you invited me to 44 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:28.159 speak again, especially at you know, at this you know, pivotal day 45 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:31.719 in our nation's history. You know, Rob, we were, as I 46 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:37.360 will often do, we do a little preliminary interview in talking. And as 47 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.800 long as I've lived in this area, which is virtually my whole life sixty 48 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.680 plus years, and will leave it at that, it never ceases to amaze 49 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:51.400 me the amount of real history that's happened in a relatively American history that's happened 50 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:55.719 in a relatively small area, that being northern Bergen County and Rockland County, 51 00:03:55.719 --> 00:04:00.319 which is the smallest county geographically in the state of New York outside of New 52 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:06.240 York City itself. And I'm amazed at you know, historic site after historic 53 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:13.319 site, and unfortunately often forgotten by history, and certainly your place, the 54 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:18.000 seventy six House right in the heart of Japan, New York is a crucial 55 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:23.920 site and dates back even we were discussed to the time of Jamestown and in 56 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:27.639 some cases some of Rockland County even before. Can you tell us a little 57 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.879 bit about the rich history that we can find in this area. Well absolutely, 58 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:38.079 you know, I like to talk about the Revolution as being three hundred 59 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.240 and fifteen miles of revolution, which is the length of the Hudson River Valley. 60 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:46.480 And have a straw or have a strewed it as it was called by 61 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:51.360 the Dutch was the site where thirty three sailors were put ashore in fifteen eighty 62 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:57.560 and these, of course thirty three sailors had native ladies who you know, 63 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:01.519 they created families with. And it was by the time Japan was settled a 64 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:09.199 second and even third generation of I guess you want to call them New Americans 65 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:13.759 or new New World Yeah, every world inhabitants, yes, yeah, exactly. 66 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:18.000 And when Japan was settled sixteen forty, as as kind of a ground 67 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:27.160 rule, you needed to have one generation of folks who created the town before 68 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.639 you got your patent. So in sixteen eighty six at the seventy sixth House, 69 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:36.959 you know, Japan got his patent. And being the oldest tavern in 70 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:43.000 America, this was kind of the capitol building for the Dutch colony of Orangetown, 71 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.360 which extended through what is now Bergen County up through Orange County. Of 72 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:51.959 course, Rocking County is a newer invention, and so much revolutionary war history 73 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:59.000 happened in this very location. Washington frequented the seventy sixth House many times. 74 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:02.199 It was then called me Bee's Tavern, and uh, he might have done 75 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:06.360 that because he liked the ale that Casparus maybe made for him, he actually 76 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:12.439 took that recipe back down to uh, you know, and and made it 77 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:17.399 in his own uh plantation and so forth. But um, you know what 78 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:25.519 happened here fundamentally is why we celebrate July fourth of the Orangetown Resolutions, which 79 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:29.959 were written, signed, and sent to the English on July fourth of seventeen 80 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:34.120 seventy four, which makes the year that we're actually celebrating the two hundred and 81 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:41.480 forty ninth year. I think, yes, your math is about as good 82 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:46.279 as mine, Rob, but yes, correct. But what's not funny. 83 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:51.560 But what's uh, what I think a lot of listeners should should like look 84 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:58.879 into, is how the story of our American revolution um, which I call 85 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:01.680 our War of revolution, and not particularly our War of Independence, which I 86 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:06.040 believe was really the War of eighteen twelve, but our War of Revolution, 87 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:16.000 which defined so much of who we are today, really started, you know, 88 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:21.800 many years before our Declaration of Dependence written by Jefferson. Now that document 89 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:30.720 wasn't really even fully signed. And that story I got in fourth grade was 90 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:39.360 a kind of a not a twist of the truth, but a little like 91 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:44.279 a massaging of the truth, making it, yeah, because tell you to 92 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:48.560 the First World War is that Americans really didn't embrace the English. In fact, 93 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:55.639 a lot of folks in the colonies could not get over some of the 94 00:07:55.720 --> 00:08:01.480 things that happened during our revolution, and so they saw and I hate the 95 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:07.439 terms soffered the narrative, but that's exactly what or what happened. And what 96 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:13.519 happened was that they needed to make it seem like two guys kicking sand at 97 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:18.399 one another, U two brothers in a sand box. And that really was 98 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.079 uh, not really the case, um, but it elevated in many cases 99 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:31.360 the English colonies and made places like Boston and they and the stories of what 100 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:37.600 happened in Boston very much more aggrandized, while the stories that happened in the 101 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.200 Dutch and German colonies, whether we'ren't really German colons, but you know, 102 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.320 areas that were settled by those folks a little bit less important. And of 103 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:50.679 course Japan is very Dutch or you know all the you know Japan, it's 104 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:58.480 Japan like Japan, not tapping um. And I always have to remind you 105 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:03.639 of that, but so much more sophisticated in English. If you say, 106 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:11.080 but you know the you know, so the story of our revolution really was 107 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.240 a little twisted. Now for instance, like the Baylor massacre, you know, 108 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:20.799 which was a real event, but the Bailor massacre which happened in Japan 109 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:24.840 right at the intersection was Old Japan and Rivervale Road. Now, they rounded 110 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.840 up all of the dragoons, Baylor's dragoons and every other mail over the edge 111 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.480 at thirteen and they bayoneted them in front of their families and threw them in 112 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:39.240 the water supply. Now that's a massacre. The Boston massacre, you know, 113 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:46.399 the story of that is a little less poignant given the concentration. So 114 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:52.399 uh, you know, of that kind of negativity. So um, you 115 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:58.519 know, when we're talking about like the changing of the narrative, that's really 116 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:07.240 important. I mean, for many years, July fourth was really celebrated because 117 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:13.960 of what happened here in Japan. And you know that's not to take anything 118 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:18.279 away from the Declaration of Independence, which is one of the most beautiful documents 119 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:24.320 ever written. One of my most famous or one of my favorite quotes is 120 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:30.399 from John F. Kennedy when he was talking to when he was a new 121 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.639 president. He had everybody invited to the White House and he said, this 122 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:39.440 is the assemblage of the most brilliant minds in the world, and together this 123 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:46.879 is an amazing group of intellect. But the most important mind that was ever 124 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.919 sitting at this table was when Jefferson ate here alone. Now that was a 125 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.320 very bad paraphrasing, but I love that quote, Like, you know, 126 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.440 it's like when Jefferson sat here alone eating, there was more intellect at this 127 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:03.720 dining table then all the heads of state, you know, Rob, I 128 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:07.039 think it's important we give people a little context, because you know, we're 129 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:13.120 doing it locally, but the program does stream beyond where exactly where Japan is. 130 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:18.320 It's about what twenty five thirty miles from midtown Manhattan, so it's it's 131 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:24.759 it's in many ways geographically very close to New York cities, but in so 132 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:30.320 many ways is so spiritually different, if you will, in a way. 133 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:35.399 I mean, it's the downtown where the seventy six houses is still you can 134 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:39.960 vision what it might have been like in seventeen seventy six, and there's literally 135 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:46.279 just one traffic's like literally in the downtown. So it's a twenty little hamlet, 136 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:50.320 but had an overgrown importance in the role in this country, and I'm 137 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:54.240 just amazed why that isn't more known. As you mentioned, the Baylor massacre 138 00:11:54.399 --> 00:12:00.080 is barely known even here, and a tremendous amount of history that happen and 139 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:05.879 in the entire area and Japan in particular, is largely overlooked, and I 140 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:09.919 don't understand why, because it is so rich, so important, and so 141 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:16.919 interesting. So there are three main events that happened in the seventy success which 142 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:22.240 I shake my head at, not understanding why they are not more well known. 143 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.919 The first is, of course, the Orangetown Resolutions. The second is 144 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.840 Major andres Not only is it incarceration, but then his trial and eventual execution, 145 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:39.440 which Washington orchestrated not as a kangaroo trial, but very very circumspectly. 146 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:46.919 And he wanted to have Major Andre treated as a normal person, as a 147 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:52.720 commoner, and a commoner who had been caught spying would be executed by hanging. 148 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:58.279 But you could not execute an aristocrat by hanging unless he freely admitted that 149 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:03.120 he was spying. So when pressed, that is what he admitted to, 150 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.080 and that, you know, really changed the scope of a war of independence. 151 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.279 And of course, on May third, seventeen eighty three. Washington met 152 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:13.480 here after three days of arguments at the Dwin House just down the street, 153 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:18.519 and you know, stir gay Carlton handed him the plans of the British evacuation 154 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.519 and said, very carefully, on behalf of the Parliament, you were no 155 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.960 longer to be governed for a short time by the British Empire. It wasn't 156 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.600 like you're free and independent. But the two of them got together in a 157 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:37.120 coach and traveled down to what we now called Pierremont used to be called Japan 158 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:41.559 by the sea and the sloop of War. The vultures saluted America with a 159 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.879 seventeen gun salute. And if you want a little humorous side note, like 160 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:48.759 when I mentioned that to historians of note, I said, well, why 161 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.320 do you think it was a seventeen gun salute? The ones I consider, 162 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.080 you know, maybe they were phoning it in a little said wow, well 163 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:00.440 there were thirteen colonies and two of this and two of that. And then 164 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:01.480 the smart guys always say, well, you know, at the end of 165 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:05.279 the war, that's all the powder they had left on the boat. So 166 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:11.639 I like that answer better. But you know, there were so many historic 167 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:18.519 figures and interesting characters who sticks out in your mind among the Dennisons, if 168 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:22.120 you will, the seventy six house and of that time. Is there any 169 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:28.039 any particular individual personality that sticks out in your mind that we should know more 170 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.360 about. Well, I mean, Hamilton lived here for almost three years on 171 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:37.480 and off, because he was a brilliant person, and I have a lot 172 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:43.799 of respect for his intellect. And he came from a very small isld Nebust, 173 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.399 which is off the coast of Saint Kitts. I've been there many times. 174 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:52.679 And to be a young person and to travel all the way to this 175 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.519 new world and to do what he did, and he did a lot of 176 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:01.000 good and he did also a lot of bad. You know, I'm not 177 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.399 fun of the First Bank of America, for instance, but that's a whole 178 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:09.600 nother story for another time. Um. But while he was here, he 179 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:13.480 recognized that Manhattan Island has no water supply. It's built on bedrock. So 180 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:18.759 he, you know, was you know, one of the creators of you 181 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:24.039 know, why Manhattan Island has a water supply today, which I think is 182 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:28.960 kind of I'm a history buff myself, and who would have thought of that 183 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.519 as a young No, he wasn't young while he was still young. I 184 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.080 mean, he's younger than us when he discovered this, like you know, 185 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:41.960 a way to you know, um, you know, create a situation for 186 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:46.600 himself, which which is why he spent a lot of time in Japan used 187 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:50.440 this tavern in particular, which is great. But what it's it's a perfect 188 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:54.320 segue. I say that. Well, I also like just to you know, 189 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.519 just a you know, it grandized that whole station about you know, 190 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:03.679 who was here. I'm in in the war documents that Nathaniel Green penned, 191 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.639 he used to sketch the fireplace which is Delf tile, and he would like 192 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:15.279 make little drawings of that actual Delf tile in the margins while he was ruminating. 193 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.200 And Nathani Green, who's a very young man, was actually a very 194 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:23.080 good uh you know general, and uh you know, he used to sit 195 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.840 right in front of that fireplace, which it's the same exact fireplace, the 196 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.080 same exactly the same exact everything, and it's it really you know, it 197 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.320 kind of makes a difference. It's really cool. Well, I'll be I 198 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.080 personally, I you know again, people say, oh, you're making a 199 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:45.519 commercial for the Severason No about thirty seven years but it doesn't for itself be 200 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.639 that as it may. The reality is you can't sit there and not feel 201 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:55.039 the spirits, the ghost, the spirit of Andre, the spirit of Green, 202 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.759 the spirit of Washington, because so much of it remains the same. 203 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:03.440 If you allow yourself to feel the spirits, there's there's still there and it's 204 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.400 quite a remarkable experience with that in mind. And we talked about some of 205 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:12.319 the famous people there. But I'm sure as a tavern, as in many 206 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:18.400 small European hamlets, particularly in the north of you or of the Ireland, 207 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.279 et cetera, the public house, the tavern is the center of life for 208 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:27.000 so many people. So what was that like in Japan? Did people come 209 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:32.720 in for a pint? Was it only the aristocracy? What was it actually 210 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.400 not that? I mean there was no aristocracy, um, I mean there 211 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:41.839 were several important families, the blowbouts, the Herrings, the Maybe's maybe he's 212 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.160 actually owned this tavern. It was called Maybe's tavern, uh. And it 213 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.039 wasn't called the tavern for a very specific reason. By the way, it 214 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.880 wasn't called the public house because you know, the user or tavern which is 215 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:56.960 tavarnol, which is actually a Tyrolean word which has nothing to do with actually 216 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.799 the English, which you know, they never ever called it a pub, 217 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:07.240 which it always fascinates me that the irissue or very um let's say, anti 218 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.200 English, at some point in their past, uh still use the word pub. 219 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.200 And I'm like, you could use a lot of different language to describe 220 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.920 where you go have a cocktail. But that being said the Dutch town fathers 221 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.160 and so forth, I certainly lost my train of thought here. Sorry. 222 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:30.039 I told as a center of life, the center of life in the small 223 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:34.200 village for everyone. So in the tavern you did all your business. If 224 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:38.160 you needed to sell a cow, this is where you came. If you 225 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:44.119 were doing something that had to do with the law or politics, that was 226 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:48.640 handled actually in the church, which was diagonally across the street. Now, 227 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:56.160 what's also interesting is that you know bars are actually called bars because of this 228 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:02.319 bar which is in the tavern here. Because when people woke up in the 229 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:07.279 sixteen seventeen hundreds, they didn't have availability of fresh drinking water, so you 230 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:12.559 would take your beer and pour it into your water to disinfect it, and 231 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:17.720 that was called small beer. Now you would drink that old day, so 232 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:23.200 by dinner time you would move on to apple Jack, which is an American 233 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:27.960 version of Calvados. And you would drink Madeira, which is a fortified wine 234 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:33.440 because you know, regular wines would not transport well in sailing ships. Of 235 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.519 course, there was poured as well, and Jerez, which is you know, 236 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.160 the English couldn't pronounce, so they call it sherry. So those were 237 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.200 the three fortified wines. And that's what you would, you know, drink. 238 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:49.559 So if you frank had a little too much that evening, they would 239 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:53.920 lower the bar and you were the guy that was lowering the bar, as 240 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:56.960 funny as that would be. And there were literally metal bars that would lower 241 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.039 down in the lock, not to stop people from stealing, because that was 242 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:07.160 really not a big issue, but it would be the end of the evening 243 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.119 cut off. That's it, and that's why. But that's why bars at 244 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:15.839 roll bars, which is an interesting Now, what about the food, rob 245 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.359 You mentioned that some of the drink that was popular. What about food? 246 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.160 What? What? What? What did you people eat at that time? 247 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:29.240 Well, of course people ate what was available, so we call it, 248 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.960 you know game now, but that was not game back then, okay, 249 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:37.319 I mean that was what you ate. It was what was readily available. 250 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:45.240 And like the whole uh idea of a pot pie is I think like kind 251 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:49.640 of funny because there was a big cauldron in front of the fireplace. None, 252 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:52.119 by the way, no cooking was done in a in a in a 253 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.519 tavern. All the cooking was done in an outbuilding. And even in Manhattan. 254 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.599 My dad owned Francis Tavern for instance, right, And they were all 255 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:06.200 built along the water because the kitchens were built off the end of a pier. 256 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:11.480 And when things got you know, because they would cook with you know, 257 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:17.200 animal fats and so on, and their fires were prevalent, they would 258 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:22.920 drop the pier off and dump it into the All the tavern you were kept 259 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:27.839 getting shorter and shorter, exactly, you got a lower Manhattan. There's like 260 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.559 you know, there's South Street, then there's Water Street, and then you 261 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:34.119 know, it keeps going. And the same as true with with with the 262 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.480 seventy six House. By the way, I must say it's called the seventy 263 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:41.519 six House, and I did not name it obviously, because this was the 264 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:48.119 first monument selected by the Department of the Interior. It's not a federal landmark. 265 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.880 It was was supposed to be a monument, okay, because they chose 266 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:57.119 this place, and like the designs of this place are actually in the Smithsonian. 267 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:03.960 Okay, so they like this was supposed to be like a monument like 268 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:10.720 the Washington Monument, not just a federal landmark. But when things got a 269 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:17.599 little hazy, as a prelude to as I mentioned, you know, changing 270 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:19.839 the narrative a little bit, this was just, you know, just was 271 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:26.119 just a federal landmark. And it's odd that, like it's a federal landmark, 272 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.279 but it you know, it shouldn't really be privately owned like it this 273 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:37.960 should be like coveted by our country, you know, so like if something 274 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:42.000 happens to me or some it'll continue being what it is, like a special 275 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:47.960 place, you know, and like you you know, I've really given like 276 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:52.200 my entire adult life to making sure this is like what it really ought to 277 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.960 be and what it has always been like when you come in here, you're 278 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:02.960 sitting underneath the original beams and flooring and so forth. But again I am 279 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.119 speaking very tangentially, so well, you know, it was it was a 280 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:08.119 question I had for a little later on in the program, but let's let's 281 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:14.160 do it now because it's appropriate at this point. What is the legacy of 282 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:19.160 the seventy six house. What what should people take from from it and from 283 00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:25.799 preserving it as perfectly as you have, as painstakingly as you have. What 284 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:30.039 what what? What message should that send? And why is it important to 285 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:37.039 continue to preserve places like the seventy six house. Wof well, I can 286 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:44.079 give you an example which was fairly recent. I had a fellow who was 287 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:48.759 the doc and for what was called Treason House, and he came over um 288 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:55.319 and and handed me a piece of white marble, broken on one edge, 289 00:23:55.759 --> 00:24:00.319 and I'm like, okay, thank you. What does this mean? He's 290 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.880 like, this is the last piece of Treason House, which is the house 291 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:11.200 that Major andre and Benedictonald met in Okay. And it was bulldozed without even 292 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:17.200 mentioning it to this dosin Okay. He went to work and it was disappeared 293 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:21.960 in dumpsters and gone, and he found this one last piece of white marble, 294 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:26.319 which he knew was part of the mantle over the fireplace. So I 295 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.960 now keep it over the mantle at the seventy six of the same mantle that 296 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:38.720 Nathaniel Greene actually looked at when he was ruminating over his war documents. And 297 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:41.839 you know, with a little sign on it and so forth. Buttery eyed 298 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:45.599 he handed it to me, So that was a big deal, you know. 299 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.960 And then I think, you know, the same thing could happen to 300 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:56.640 this, you know, important edifice of American history without without somebody or without 301 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:07.079 some more important uh you know, some sponsor or something. Yeah, yeah, 302 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.839 it's it's and this is you know, like I tell people, They're 303 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.519 like, oh, you know, it's a beautiful restaurant, and you must 304 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:18.799 enjoy yourself doing this, and I do. The better part of me is 305 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:23.640 uh feels like you know, I have you know, friends who are you 306 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:27.279 know, Uh, this isn't This is a lifestyle, not a living, 307 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:34.519 is what I tell folks. But that being said, um, it's it's 308 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:41.519 something that not everybody can handle or be drawn to, and it shouldn't be 309 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:47.720 up to any one individual to perpetuate it, which is has me a bit 310 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:52.240 frightened about the future. I hope that makes sense. Uh, certainly, 311 00:25:52.599 --> 00:26:00.000 I hope it doesn't sound self aggrandizing because it's a bigger issue than anyone person. 312 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:02.519 And certainly, yeah, I mean this needs to be preserved. This 313 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:08.960 is really where the revolution really happened. And sometimes that waxes and Waynes and 314 00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:12.559 popularity. Well, let's let's go back to that, Rob. I think 315 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:18.000 it's a perfect moment to get back to that. It's July fourth, seventeen 316 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.960 seventy six, the document is signed. Obviously, there's no mass communication. 317 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.559 It wasn't like they go to Facebook or Twitter and let let the people in 318 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:33.240 the world know that they're now quote unquote liberated from the rule of Great Britain. 319 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:37.079 How was it communicated? How for how long did it take to be 320 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.880 announced in a place like Japan? And then from there what was the reaction 321 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:47.160 where people joyous, were they frightened? Were they apprehensive? So tell us 322 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.039 a little bit. But first of all, when did it probably reach and 323 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:53.640 how did it reach the seventy six House in Japan? In my opinion, 324 00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:00.720 and again i'm you know, just one voice. Uh, you know. 325 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.920 In seventeen eighty three, May third, seventeen eighty three, there was a 326 00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:11.359 very clear understanding between Sir Guy Carlton and Washington and documents that were assigned and 327 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:15.640 given to Washington about how the English were going to remove themselves from the colonies 328 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:26.440 in a very circumspect way, and that the dissemination of that particular idea did 329 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:32.960 take a while. I mean, you still had like always, I believe, 330 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:38.440 especially the colonies because you know, we're talking about folks on horseback. 331 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:45.279 But after that exact moment, it was pretty relevant to the immediate New York 332 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:52.400 area. That but and that's a that's a little sidestep, because Manhattan Island 333 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.000 was still had a very large British presence on it for a great deal of 334 00:27:56.119 --> 00:28:04.720 time. Yes, but this is not something that the British Army did not 335 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:08.359 know about, you know what I'm saying, the British rule, uh, 336 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.480 and the governors of the states and uh, you know, because there were 337 00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:18.000 British governors uh famously you know, Franklin's son. Is it? Is it 338 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.440 fair? Is it fair to say then at that particular moment, there was 339 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:26.880 really nothing more than a piece of paper actually since the since the British Army 340 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:32.400 was still pretty much pretty much in control. So it was in a certain 341 00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:37.960 sense it might have been received as symbolic document rather than an actual doctor And 342 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:44.359 you mentioned absolute three. The actual removal of troops was the true independence, 343 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.039 if you will. This was a lot of people point to, like the 344 00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:52.000 surrender of Cornwallis and I'm like, you know, that was a profound moment 345 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:57.720 in history. It made a lot of uh you know, uh, you 346 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:03.839 know, it was a you know, it was a profound moment in history 347 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:08.640 period. However, there were three British armies in the colonies. You know, 348 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:12.200 they could have said, hey, crush these people with the snap of 349 00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:15.160 a finger, and that probably would have happened. You know, we were 350 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.559 not supposed to win the War of eighteen twelve. You know, that was 351 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:23.000 just an anomaly of history, you know. Uh, you know, it 352 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:27.079 can be pointed to if you if you want to believe in providence, like 353 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:30.720 you know, you know a lot of folks do, and I you know, 354 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:36.759 love to think of that being a real thing. That is a very 355 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:41.920 profound event because that was a war we should not have won. Uh and 356 00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.720 we did. Okay, I'm sorry, I mean to finish, No, 357 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.240 not at all. I mean that. I mean that's what our you know, 358 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.599 our star spangled banner is not about the revolution. It's about the War 359 00:29:52.640 --> 00:30:00.119 of eighteen twelve. Interesting, what do you think was ultimately the key to 360 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:07.079 success in the in the Revolutionary war at least anyway where we were should have 361 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.079 been squashed like a bug. And yet we suffered. But we you know 362 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:17.480 ultimately emerged victorious. What was there a single key where there are few? 363 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.039 What do you point it was a single key? Absolutely correct. It was 364 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.559 because the British had one battle strategy, which was to control the Hudson River 365 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:33.720 Valley, and the Racalcitrans and strength of the Dutch and other settlers of the 366 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:41.000 Hudson River Valley in small swarms would never allow the whole Hudson River Valley to 367 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.680 be completely controlled by the English. Washington had a great idea fortifying what we 368 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:52.599 now call West Point was called Fort Benedictoral Pryor. They dragged chains across which 369 00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:57.079 were at that day and age extraordinarily hard to even make. They dragged them 370 00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:03.440 from Greenwood Lake, can you know, very far areas and strung these chains 371 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:07.680 and things across the Hudson River. Became a gauntlet that the Brittish could never 372 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:15.119 conquer. It was a war of attrition, like some things that we suffered 373 00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:21.920 as American soldiers in wars like Vietnam and things like that, where you can 374 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.480 never capture the whole You could capture a bunch of things, but you couldn't 375 00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:30.119 capture the whole thing. And you could capture a city like Boston, and 376 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.680 then we would capture Fort tight Hondar Roga and bomb the hell out of Boston. 377 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:37.359 Then the English fled and they went down to New York. I mean, 378 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:42.359 you could never capture the whole Hudson River valley, and that really, 379 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:49.079 I mean they believe that they capture the Hudson River Valley, everyone north of 380 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:55.759 the Hudson River would just naturally join with Canada, and everybody south they could 381 00:31:55.839 --> 00:32:00.920 deal with at their own due leisure. I mean, we had, you 382 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.880 know, a substantial number off of Sandy Hook, which is outside New York, 383 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:09.240 just down in Jersey, waiting there in grand vessels, waiting to just 384 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:15.400 assault up the huts. And you know this military might. You had how 385 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.119 and his brother How, you know, like two brothers, you know, 386 00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:25.039 and you had this great military force, but you couldn't take it all at 387 00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:30.559 one time. And when you took a little bit, you lost it when 388 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:35.240 you tried to take another bit. And I think that's why the revolution just 389 00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:40.480 became untenable. Plus, like General Howe, who was an interesting person to 390 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:46.480 look at, he was not really behind the revel The idea of fighting the 391 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:59.119 colonists and the English were kind of at an age in their philosophical evolution where 392 00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:07.599 they wanted to be um uh. They wanted to be more oh gosh, 393 00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:09.880 how do I say this with a little bit more a plumb um. They 394 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:20.480 wanted to understand kind of a social democracy more than uh uh like for instance, 395 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:25.400 you know, God forbid, this was a different uh government that was 396 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.920 our leadership at that time. You know, if it was a more uh 397 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:40.279 uh stalwarth uh direct. I don't know how to put it more uh. 398 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:44.920 You know, if I was just reading a book about like if this was 399 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.559 like a Russian oligarchy, it was, it was a like you know, 400 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:57.480 I'm you know, so it it was like more of a uh brutal uh 401 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:06.720 type of um dictatorial. Yeah, it would not have this revolution would have 402 00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:10.920 would have not have happened. But remember our revolution was not the end of 403 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:16.800 things. It spawned so much more. Yes, which is why I think 404 00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:22.559 America is revered to this day. I mean, not every revolution has the 405 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:29.760 same touchstones to what our revolution was about, but they all do hearken to 406 00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:36.039 that kind of uh I believe kind of a moral libertarian idea. But that's 407 00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:37.920 you know, let's not get into that. Well. I want to talk. 408 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.000 I want to talk a little bit about that. You know, the 409 00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:44.719 promise that was promised in the declaration you mentioned one of the most beautiful documents 410 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:49.159 ever written, ever written. And it's so beautiful. It's beautifully written. 411 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:53.760 And not only that, it's there's there's nothing in it that anybody can really 412 00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:01.239 contradict. You can't say that's not true. You can say yeah, yeah, 413 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.000 hold that thought. I want to I want to get into it in 414 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:06.519 some detail. I want to give it all the way first, little teas 415 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:09.119 here. I want to do it after the break. We'll take a quick 416 00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:13.000 break here when we come back. And I do want to have a good, 417 00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:17.599 robust discussion about that and if we're really fulfilling the ideals that are expressed 418 00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:21.960 in a declaration of independence, and I want to I want to share a 419 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.119 story with you that I think you'll appreciate. But let's take a quick break 420 00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:29.800 first. My guest is Rob Norton, as he calls himself, the tavern 421 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:34.119 keeper of the seventy six House, America's oldest tavern into Pan New York. 422 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:37.360 He is so much more. We're talking about the American Revolution, the first 423 00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:42.360 fourth of July and so much more. This is being Frank I'm your host, 424 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:45.280 Frank Lebono, will be right back after these brief commercial messages. Please 425 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:52.280 don't go anywhere. This is great. This is Hudson River Radio dot of 426 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.679 Green into your life. Check out the Many Shades of Green with Maxine, 427 00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:01.199 Margot, Reuben and Malcolm Berman. Get informed about environmental issues and current events 428 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:06.800 that affect us all. Pick a shade of green and raise your eco consciousness 429 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:13.079 with the Many Shades of Green available on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify or 430 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:22.679 wherever you get your podcasts Hudson River Radio dot com. You ought to be 431 00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:28.360 in movies, well, at least you should watch movies. The silver Screen 432 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:34.760 Podcast talks about all aspects of film and entertainment, current films, old films, 433 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:38.880 how movies are made, and interviews with moviemakers, authors and musicians too. 434 00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:45.840 Check out the silver Screen Podcast at Hudson River Radio dot com or wherever 435 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:54.800 you get your podcasts and go watch a movie Hudson River Radio dot com. 436 00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:00.320 Welcome back to being Frank. We're the only way to be is I got 437 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:04.159 me your host, Frank Lebono. Remember we offer a fresh topic every week 438 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:08.079 and you can catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts like Apples, 439 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:12.960 Spotify, All Heart Radio, Spreaker, and more. Of course, 440 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.760 we'd like to thank you for joining us here on the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. 441 00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:23.800 My guest tonight is the Tavern Keeper, the owner and proprietor and historian from 442 00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:30.199 the seventy six House, America's oldest tavern located in a very historic to pan 443 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:32.360 New York. Rob. Before you left for the break, we started talking 444 00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:39.679 a little bit about America as both an ideal and an idea, one that 445 00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:46.800 was and still emulated by many countries. And I've used the story before, 446 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:53.280 but I think it's as appropriate here. I was working a gig years ago 447 00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:59.480 when I had to deal with a European reporter, a young woman from Portugal, 448 00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.039 and in between live shots, I was working for CBS News at the 449 00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:06.599 time, and in between live shots, we were talking a little bit and 450 00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:09.920 she was expressing what America meant to her. It was at the time when 451 00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:15.000 Trump was Donald Trump was starting to make inroads and eventually was elected President of 452 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:22.039 the United States, and she was somewhat concerned where America might change. And 453 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:24.199 she used the terms she said, you know, we you know what's Portugal's 454 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:28.920 a small country. You know, great tourism, great beaches, good food 455 00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:32.079 and wine, etc. But we're not really big players on the world stage. 456 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:37.679 We count on the United States to be that shining city on the hill. 457 00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:42.679 You may think it's silly, but we don't. And I think all 458 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:47.599 of that that shining city on the hill concept lies within the Declaration of Independence? 459 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:51.920 Are we living in? Are we there? Are we getting there? 460 00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:54.920 Can we get there? Oh? You said one thing when you first began 461 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:04.199 about It's an ideal and an idea, and they're not mutually exclusive, obviously, 462 00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:15.519 And what Jefferson put together is one of the most beautiful masterpieces of what 463 00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:28.039 the perfect i dia and ideal of human nature should possess as a way to 464 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:34.480 govern and move politically through the world. And like the person that you were 465 00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:40.280 talking through from Portugal, yes, part of what she was telling you I 466 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:45.519 believe, and this is just what I'm taking from your words, is that 467 00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:50.159 you know this is this, you know, statue of liberty. Instead of 468 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:54.639 holding a torch, she's having her two hands out with this diamond of perfection 469 00:39:55.400 --> 00:40:01.679 in front of her. But the other half of what she's saying is America 470 00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:13.239 has also been a protector for a lot of that uh uh enjoyment or that 471 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:20.760 other nations have. Uh. And uh that comes at a cost to American 472 00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:25.480 citizens as well. Uh you know, uh, and that's a cost that's 473 00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:31.159 freely given. Um. What we're what I'm worried about is like getting to 474 00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:43.719 a point where we uh don't embrace what the Declaration of Independence really embodies. 475 00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:49.960 Um, And I'm fearful of that. I don't know what your thoughts are 476 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.159 on in your mind? What what what do you feel? If you can 477 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:57.760 simplify and apsoulte, however, you try to shoot and it's obviously a very 478 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:05.239 esoteric concept to try. That's problematic. You know what's most what's most important? 479 00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:08.880 What is the most important? As a tavern keeper, I try to 480 00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:16.800 be a political and if a group of very left wing folks want to have 481 00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:20.920 a meeting here, I'm happy to welcome them. And if a group of 482 00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.920 very right wing folks want to meet here. And I don't believe in this 483 00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:29.920 country we need to really worry about whether you're left or right or whether what 484 00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:35.000 your politics are. I think we should all just be Americans. And that's 485 00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:39.880 what the Declaration Independence says. And you know, we're all created equal under 486 00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:51.760 God right, And that's an important concept, Like it doesn't mean like that 487 00:41:52.719 --> 00:42:00.760 one person is better than another, but it also means that, Uh well, 488 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:07.159 I started this conversation by saying, like I should not give political I 489 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.400 am and I and I don't. I don't like like to dive into like 490 00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:19.360 a political diatribe, but like there's no reason for Republicans and Democrats and politicians 491 00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:27.079 shouldn't get into politics to be politicians. They should get into politics because they 492 00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:30.280 want to give back to this country. That's how this was all designed to 493 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:35.599 be. Okay, you can say whatever you want to be say about Trump, 494 00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:42.880 and uh you know, I'm like, uh you know, I'm on 495 00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:49.280 neither side of defense. I just don't like politicians to be politicians. I 496 00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:53.000 don't like folks that go to law school to become a mayor, to become 497 00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:59.760 a senator, to become a president. Like I want people to join government 498 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.599 because they want to give back, because they feel I have a very dear 499 00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:13.039 friend. Okay. He had a tough young life and he was working in 500 00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:19.760 a factory, and the factory offered anybody a position to go to school and 501 00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:27.760 better themselves. And he became a fellow who developed computer programming for a computer 502 00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:35.519 for banks, and he owns that little niche market and he's a multi multi 503 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:40.280 multimillionaire. And he showed me a check the other day that he was happy 504 00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:45.280 to send to the government for two million dollars, and I was like, 505 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:52.639 wow. He was like, I'm happy to pay this income tax because without 506 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:58.360 the government helping me, I would just be making bolts in a factory. 507 00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:01.239 Okay. True, Or I can tell you his name after that, they 508 00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:07.519 don't. I don't understand. But that's the kind of person you want a 509 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:13.000 government, a person who's like grateful. We should all be grateful, okay 510 00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:16.440 for the experience we have here. Like, spend a lot of time somewhere 511 00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:22.000 else, okay, and you're happy to be an American, Okay. Spend 512 00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:27.239 too much time in an environment where people are negative, and you're going to 513 00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:32.719 be negative. It's just the way life is. But Jefferson's document is a 514 00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:38.159 governing document. It's not just a document. It wasn't really even written to 515 00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:44.800 send to England, Okay, it wasn't. It was like we got these 516 00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:49.039 great stories in fourth grade and all that stuff. The back of the two 517 00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:53.000 dollar bill is a complete illusion that never really happened. New York didn't even 518 00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:00.400 get a copy. They didn't even show up to Continental Congress. I don't 519 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:05.480 know, perhaps a waxing poetic. I probably shouldn't have done this, Like 520 00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:09.719 no, Rob, it's just so honest. But that's what I'm always hoping. 521 00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:14.440 That's what the show is about people. This is intelligent conversation, and 522 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.920 it is I think that's I know, that's what you're talking about. We 523 00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:22.880 need to have dialogue. We need to have conversations, dialogue. It doesn't 524 00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:27.199 have to be no one's right or wrong, but everybody has to be civil. 525 00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:30.400 Well, I always say I'm right, some people are wrong, but 526 00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:35.800 that's that's that's my problem. Of course, up getting Rob, I really 527 00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.440 like to thank you for being frank, and of course you're intelligent. Conversation, 528 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:43.400 always terrific and always so much more to talk about when you come back 529 00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:46.800 again, of course it will, but I hope I didn't like you know 530 00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:52.960 and get off the rails too much. Always fascinating during the commercial break when 531 00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:57.159 you had to run and put out some fires at the rest, I gave 532 00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:01.079 away. I gave away a trade secret. And Neil and I are engineer 533 00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:05.800 Neil Richter who we're going to talk to in just a minute, which is 534 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:07.440 saying, you know, how fascinating. We know we both grew up here, 535 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:12.119 and we know we're pretty good with the local history. We enjoy it, 536 00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:15.519 and yet every time we talk to you we learn more. It's just 537 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:23.920 extraordinary. How thing the first bombing in the United States, the monument to 538 00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:28.119 Major Andre on the top of the Hill after the War of eighteen twelve, 539 00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:32.480 after he was exhumed, right right hated the English so much that the locals 540 00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:37.599 bombed the monument that the English put up a great story. Well, you'll 541 00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:43.079 be back. We'll have to do more Andrea stories in October on the anniversary 542 00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:46.480 of anniverse. Terrible thing to save his execution, but so many stories to 543 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:51.480 tell him. We've only scratched the service. There's so many more. And 544 00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:57.320 in his execution it reshaped really the world because he was the first aristocrat executed 545 00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:01.480 by colonists, and he was executed as if he was a commoner. Yeah, 546 00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:05.960 and that undermined the social structure of the colonies. Yeah, very very 547 00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:09.320 very important. That's something everybody needs to learn in fourth grade. Well, 548 00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:15.639 well, well we'll help, we'll try. We'll get too many pleasure and 549 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:20.719 Neil got to stop down for a bite to eat. That's great. So 550 00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:24.679 that's yes, that voice there he is the dulceted Tones. You recognize him 551 00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:30.480 from all the ads on my program. There he is. So before we 552 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.400 close, and Neil'm gonna talk to you just a second, Rob, thank 553 00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.599 you again. I want to live. You'll appreciate this is from doctor Franklin. 554 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:43.760 Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve 555 00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:47.880 neither liberty nor safe or safety. Yeah, that's the brilliant doctor, Doctor 556 00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:52.519 Franklin. Speaking of brilliant, let's hear from Neil Richtor. Neil, you're 557 00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:58.840 gonna introduce our song from one of your incarnations, machinations. The Bag Daddy 558 00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:01.719 os with Ken round one of my one of my favorite bands, certainly at 559 00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:05.960 least a name, but also in music. The Bag Daddy's got a great 560 00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:07.559 summer to first, tell us a little bit about me. Well, thank 561 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:12.280 you, thank you, Frankie. Yeah, Ken and I actually founded the 562 00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:15.679 band The Bag Daddy. I was back in nineteen ninety two. I think 563 00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:20.039 as a member, I've been in and out. I've going on hiatus, 564 00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:23.320 come back, taking a little more time off, and currently I've been back 565 00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:28.480 in the band for about the past six months now. This particular song I 566 00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:32.159 wasn't present for when it was recorded, so it's not me playing on the 567 00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:37.360 track, but I think I remember actually playing it live. And it's called 568 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.880 Here it Comes the Coney Island Cyclone. Now, of course it refers to 569 00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:45.440 the legendary roller coaster on Coney Island, and I know it well. I 570 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:50.320 grew up every summer at my grandmother's house in Coney Island. I know the 571 00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:53.960 Cyclone quite well, and it's right there next to the Nathan His hot Dog 572 00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:58.840 stand. And now it was again I didn't play on the song, but 573 00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:01.800 I actually played with a band in Coney Island a couple of different times, 574 00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:07.119 and I've actually played in a different band at a benefit type thing in the 575 00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:15.719 Cyclones Stadium the Brooklyn Cyclones Minor League baseball teams, yeah, affiliates I think 576 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:17.280 of the Mets, and they had, you know, a benefit thing. 577 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:22.079 I got to actually play inside the stadium. So I do have a connection 578 00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:29.079 to Coney Island and this song. But with the Fourth of July weekend coming 579 00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:31.480 up or you know, extended weekend, I guess it's on a Tuesday, 580 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:36.239 I believe this year. But a lot of people take Monday off and make 581 00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:39.000 it a nice four day weekend. I recommend it highly. But anyway, 582 00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:43.119 I agree with you. You know, but this is a fun song. 583 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.440 You know you can take medicine for for hiatus. By the way, so 584 00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:51.159 I've heard you know, I'll have to I'll have to go down to I 585 00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:53.639 hear it's all the counter now right, we got to go. No, 586 00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:58.440 we're just about at a time, so why don't you kick us off with 587 00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:00.880 with Coney Island deal and we'll say good night and thanks to all our view 588 00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:05.920 our listeners. I almost in viewers, caught myself the nickod time go ahead 589 00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:08.199 and ye okay, we're gonna hear the bad daddios. And here it comes, 590 00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:13.320 the Coney Island cyclone. Hey, everybody, have a happy and safe 591 00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:24.599 Fourth of July. Thanks everybody, we'll see you next week. Hear it 592 00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:32.559 calls, we've been around. Then hear it calls you are my best friend. 593 00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:43.840 Here it comes faster than the star that bears his name. Hearing calls, 594 00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:50.119 I can't wait to ride. Hear it calls, you can't run, 595 00:50:50.519 --> 00:51:00.440 you get d Hear it calls scream something. Thank you all sane. I 596 00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:06.760 can't be changed down. The summertime is here. I can't it not my 597 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:13.480 lord from my eyes up in there and ride a cooney on inside. Come 598 00:51:20.199 --> 00:51:28.480 here, he calls you by trendling. Here he calls my mad sin. 599 00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:37.800 Here he calls reach me out that I can close my eyes. Hearing calls 600 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:45.440 in backing. See here, it calls, I feel like such a freak. 601 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:55.519 Hear it, cause, however, come says these nice I am a 602 00:51:55.719 --> 00:52:00.960 potion of my vault, since I wis by himself all right until I'm olden 603 00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:08.760 clons quick clans for real. I haven't coneana cyclone. You don't ride the 604 00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:37.840 coneyanand cyclo. Here it calls, I want to ride again. Here it 605 00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:46.320 calls I never right Here, it calls not too minute, friends like this 606 00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:59.519 sisst Here it calls I can't tell my Here it calls the classics. Never 607 00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:10.000 joh. Here it comes feel the through with the baturn twist d I a 608 00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:15.360 love time with umberies that will lost as long the greatest rid for that's one 609 00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:23.079 of this song. I love that Cone Allen's cycling. I love that Cone 610 00:53:23.239 --> 00:53:35.320 Allen's sidle. Here it comes here, it comes here, it comes here, 611 00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:43.760 It comes here it comes here. It comes here. It comes here, 612 00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:59.480 it comes here, it comes here, it comes This is Hudson River 613 00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:00.639 Radio dot com.