What is krack alac in Fellows Thermonuclear a Efforts. I am Dan Pavalley coming
at you with my certified fantabulous co host, the demolition Man himself, mister
Grant Hughes. We are here to wrap up the NBA Finals, Nuggets Heat
Yokich Murray, the futures of both teams. We're gonna get into maybe some
offseason stuff. If we don't decide to make that a separate episode, it
will be a very much in the moment decision. So you're here for the
unpredictability of Hardwood Knocks. Before we can eball in, though, just a
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us pictures of you in the merch or just of the merch once you get
them. I think that's actually it. And so I get to the question
that everyone's dying to know the answer to, Grant, how are you doing?
I'm doing very well. Thank you. Just to clear up, I
am not Sylvester Salon from but I said nineteen ninety four when we talked off
air, But I think that feels about right for when Demolition Man came out.
It's because I'm tearing up my kitchen. My wife and I are changing
it out, so we're doing it ourselves and it requires a lot of sledgehammering,
and so far, so good. Nobody has set a fire or been
electrocute. That's not true. My wife got electrocuted twice, but it was
like minor electrocution, so it was shook it off, shook it off.
It was fine. I'm not a batter husband. Moment right now that you're
thinking, well, no one got electrocuted except for my wife who got electrocuted
twice, I was trying to decide, like, it's not like, you
know, nobody's hair was standing up, like I couldn't see the outline of
her skeleton, like through her skin, which is how I understand electrocution works
based on cartoons. So I was gonna leave it out, but I wanted
to be a completest about the pitfall so far of kitchen demolition. I will
say this, and I've told you off fair. I am in finitely impressed
that you two are undertaking the remodeling of your own kitchen. That's I had
sheer anxiety for you so much as I checked in to see how it was
going. Over the weekend. No no ulterior agenda, like you're still alive?
How many times did your wife get electric cut? Yeah? No,
so far, so good. But you I forget you said people are here
for the unpredictability, and that has the word predictable in it, and you
made an all timer of a prediction. I'm gonna gas you up right now
because the Denver Nuggets won the National Basketball Association championship, which is a big
deal, especially for listeners of this podcast. They care about that sort of
thing, and you not only called it from the preseason, they were your
preseason title pick, which I don't know have you looked to see how like
how frequent you know that was the pick by you know wherever you're you know,
expert. What am I trying to say, where all the experts were
like compiled and like who picked who? Like I don't think that was a
common pick, and you picked it in five when we previewed the series,
So just kudos to you. Yeah, So I don't know how many like
media members picked them. I think I saw people yesterday say that a bunch
of the Ringer people picked the Nuggets, which if a bunch of people from
one outlet picked the Nuggets. Kudos to them, and I'm sure there were
I saw some Nuggets media members picked them too, and that's I don't dismiss
that you called it, but I dismiss it when the meal, when the
team of media picket. But I don't think it was a very popular one.
I would hazard that. I don't know that Miami was a popular one.
But I wonder if Miami, because they were coming off a conference finals
appearance, if they were a more popular title pick preseason once the season got
underway, if you were picking the Heat over the Nuggets, I don't know
what the fuck was wrong with you, but I wonder if they were the
more popular title pick. I did tell you though it was it was I
thought it would be more satisfying getting it right because this, like, I
don't know, I'd have to go back. We've been covering the league basically
since twenty eleven. I don't know if I've gotten any non kd Era Warriors
preseason title pick right. I came close with the Suns in twenty twenty one.
I thought it'd be more satisfying than it's just being in like the minority.
But you were correct, and it was just afterwards, I couldn't even
bring myself. I did one victory lap on Twitter. I posted a meme
of like, you know, crying Jamal Murray and I said, this is
me after getting a preseason title pick, right, But thank you. I
appreciate it. I'm glad. I like being correct. But it was just
I was, you know, I texted you and I was like, are
you rude? Like do you think there's gonna be a Game six? And
we were both just kind of in unanimous agreement that there wasn't going to be.
And I think what was most impressive to actually get into like sort of
a series wrap up and how far the Nuggets have come, not just over
the years but this season. That was for so much of that game that
was maybe one of their worst offensive performances of the of the playoffs. They
and look credit to the Heats defense, Like the Nuggets for the first you
know, two and a half quarters were missing wide open threes their shot quality.
I haven't looked at the specifics, but I had the exact same thought.
I even was thinking, the Nuggets are up like twenty five in this
game if they shoot, if they're like sort of hot, and it's like
fifteen at a minimum, if they just make the shots you would expect them
to make. So it was a weird. It was a weird game.
Like it was, They're at nine of nineteen at the line at one point.
Oh that was the other thing. Yeah, if they made their if
they made free throws at a reasonable rate and hit you know, forty percent
of their threes, which based on their shot that is not an unrealistic,
you know, expectation. This might have been done in the third quarter,
you know. And I think what was most impressive about that though when I
tweeted this is through that entire rut, they still just felt inevitable. I
was like, they're gonna win this game. I was watching. I was
watching it with a friend, and I was just like, they're they're gonna
win. I was like, they're down by like eight or whatever is now
seven. I was like, they're They're just going to win. That's how
this team feels right now. And I think, I don't know how you
feel about this. And I felt this way after a Yannis one, and
I don't think he got it as much as Yokis did, mostly because he
wasn't working off back to back MVPs. At that time. But to see
a star dispel just so many ill thought flat out wrong notions about him,
and even Jamal Murray did this to some extent too as well, Michael Porter
Junior, when you look at his rebounding and defense, like not really doing
much as a scorer and shooter. This whole team kind of did it,
and that was really fun to see an experience because it's like there's no there's
no argument, and like there's no Oh, can you win? You just
did? You won? Go figure? You can win a title with Nicole
Yokis is your best player? Oh? Go figure. The Denver Nuggets are
are actual threats, and I think I didn't see too much of it.
We'll in nevitably get to the people talking about we'll look at the seeds that
they beat in YadA, YadA, YadA, shut up, Like I mean,
the Lakers won seventy percent of their games basically after the trade deadline.
The son ted Kevin freaking Durant, like this was not an easy path.
There's no championship is easy, and you know what the Nuggets are. You
don't get to have it both ways either. Not this, I feel like
I'm arguing against nobody at this point, because I hope nobody's making this argument.
But Yokich was criticized because he didn't win the previous he didn't win the
previous two years, but they weren't at full strength, and now they're at
full strength and they win. But it's well, look look at how easy
it was for them. Again, it's like, we gotta stop, and
now it does stop. And I didn't see much of it in the aftermath.
I saw some of it today probably you know, rage bait for engagement,
which whatever, that's how the sausage is made. Now apparently it was
just it's really I'm thrilled for the fans. I'm excited for them the most,
but I just man so cool to see an entire again, the Yokich
being able to dispel this stuff. And then also we have to get into
like what he said post game was great too, but the entire team just
kind of dispelling this notion that they weren't built to win at this level and
doing it in such they lost four games. They lost four games. That's
the thing, like you could, I agree, I hate because it's inevitable
and it already has happened a little bit you've seen the just just being slightly
dismissive of the path they had to go through or whatever, Like I'm not
interested in that in any circumstance, because winning a title is like incredibly difficult.
But like the flip of that is they made it look easy, like
it may not have actually been easy, like they are just they were just
dominant. So I think I would add to what you said, like I
like the sort of clarifying effect of this title, like what it does for
how we look at We've talked about this a little bit before, how we
look at not just Yoki's, not just Murray Porter, the Nuggets the last
like handful of years, because it just makes it clear now that the Nuggets
at full strength should be viewed as the team to beat, right like and
that maybe should have been the case all along. And Yokich is the best
player in the world, and Murray absolutely can be a one A or a
one bat or whatever however you break that down. And like the Porter contract
was a good contract now like by definition because he mattered and won you a
title. Just all these all these little uncertainties that we had the whole like
this job and covering this league, and the league itself is just nothing but
uncertainties and unpredictable things and like it could go this way or that way.
Everything we'll talk about today, like we'll talk about the Suns and Chris Paul
and like this ridiculous like complex decision tree of things out there and you know
this might happen or that might happen. The Nuggets want it. Yokich was
the reason they want it. They just like it clarifies the last several seasons
and it's like, now we can look at this chunk of the you know,
of NBA history and say, like we know who the team is,
we know who the guy is, and we know that the Nuggets like did
all this stuff right, and it's just it's it's like psychologically feels good because
we have some certainty now and I enjoy that very much. Yeah, and
they're just like the postgame the Murray and this doesn't happen to me too much
now, like I am be detached from the outcome of things, even if
I like am tweeting like in hyperbole. Jamal Murray's reaction to winning just absolutely
sent me just because he goes through all that acl stuff. We know the
history of like how his dad trained him growing up, which was I think
the kindest way to put it was a maniacal years. Yeah. And and
then like to kind of juxtapose that against Yokich, who's upset that the parades
on Thursday because he's trying to get home for horse races on Sunday. It's
just like this team is just so fun and likable, and the thing that
typified them the most, Yokich is getting his Finals MVP Award, MPJ and
Jamal Murray look legitimately ecstatic, and they're clearly more excited for Yokich than Yokich
is for himself, which is just so cool. And I think my bigger
takeaway from this, and I actually don't even know if it's a takeaway,
but what makes this special? And I saw some people frame it as getting
lucky. There's so if you need to frame it like that, I feel
fine, Like you need so much sluck involved. They gave this organization and
this core time where I think a lot of other organizations would not have done
the same. And you can say they had built in excuses, particularly the
past two years, organizations still don't give you that amount, like the fact
that Michael Malone. This is year eight for him in Denver. Right that
he is still there. That is special, that is unique, and they
clearly had something there that was worth grooming, building upon and to be able
to identify that and recognize that, Hey, we don't need necessarily a new
voice. We don't need these major shakeups with coaching. We don't need to,
you know. Jamal Murray, I think said this to Stan Cronky afterwards,
and he said it before he thought the Nuggets were going to trade him
while he was injured, and it's not. Yeah, they made moves.
They went and got Aaron Gordon. They made the decision to move Will Barton
and Gary Harris and monteg Morris at some point. But to keep you know,
they did reinvest in the core through contracts. That Aaron Gordon trade was
big. The KCP trade was a duel, like hey, cutting taxes,
but like this also makes a lot of sense. Getting Bruce Brown free agency
was I mean, I still can't believe the market and get him more than
the mini mammally this past year or neither here and were there though, But
seldom do you see a core that, even with injuries, that hasn't won
at this level, get this amount of time, and I'm sure getting to
the conference finals in the bubble maybe certainly helped the team believe in itself,
like to hey, we don't need to go this nuclear route. But it's
super cool to see that patience and that entire not just payoff, but to
actually see that entire journey happen. Because title windows, I feel like,
are getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller, and this is it wasn't
even necessarily it wasn't a title window the whole time. But like, this
core has been together for so long and the Nuggets never viewed it as stale.
Maybe that's a conversation that might happened if they flamed out and this year's
playoffs, but they didn't, so they don't have to have it. And
so I thought it was to use the word super cool again to see a
team stick with its base priuiples for that long through I would argue many situations,
eliminations and setbacks that other teams would have just pulled the rip cord on.
Yeah, it's really hard to know. The injuries to Murray and Porter.
Last was it last year that Porter played just the nine games or the
year before, I can't remember either way, It's really interesting to sort of
try to build the alternative scenario where those guys are healthy and then the Nuggets
you know, go as far as they go and probably don't win a title.
Maybe they do, but I do think the injuries provided like maybe cover
is too strong a word, but it sort of was sort of incentivized patients
because in either of their cases, like I don't know that you could have
traded those two guys Murray and and MPJ for great value, and it made
sense to sort of, well, let's wait and see what we have with
these guys as opposed to you know, some of the more impatient moves you
might get had the Nuggets done the normal thing where you know, oh,
they advanced to the second round and then the third round and then and then
and then they win. You know. Those are the teams like the Celtics
are a good example of that where it's like we're asking all these quess I
don't think we are, but all these questions are being asked to them because
they keep you know, they're fairly young, and they keep making it to
a certain level and they're just you know, not getting there all the way
and then suddenly it's like, well, do we blow this up? You
know, if if Jalen Brown had been injured for this entire postseason or something,
then it would you'd just be like, well, no, that's we
run it back and we see what we have. It's interesting that the injuries,
while like obviously terrible for the guys that endured them, might be part
of the reason that the Nuggets did sort of, you know, stay the
course with this roster a couple unless you have anything to add to that,
there were a couple of good questions. Now, do you want to answer
this blown question in the chat? Who do you think ranks higher all Ti,
Yannis or Yokich? Do we need to have that discussion? It's a
hard discussion. That's why I wanted to see what you'd say. And look,
Jannis has two titles or no he doesn't have They both have two MVPs,
they both have a title. Look, I think I'm not ready to
have this discussion. Do you have a pick right now? I think prisoner
of the Moment makes me think that if I had to guess who's going to
finish higher all time, I kind of think it might be Yoki. Yeah
at this point, but that feels very prisoner, might be very prisoner of
the moment, extremely prisoner of the moment, but I kind of agree.
Like, for the longest time, the answer to the question, which is
a stand in for who's the best player in the world, was you're starting
a team today and you need to go through a regular season in the playoffs,
who's your first pick? And it was honest for me for a long
time. But I think now you have to say because you don't have the
defensive questions anymore, or at least like you've seen it work with Yokich,
and that was like the biggest uncertainty. I think it's probably Yokich now,
But again with like a dollop of this is prisoner at the moment, thinking
that we're both engaging in right now. Stephan Story said yokis he had less
help and more WS and way less help and better results. I mean,
does that kind of discredit how good the Nugget supporting cast is right now?
I was asked I went on a DNVR Serbian Corner show and they asked me
if this is one of the greatest championship supporting casts in league history and I
just I mean, maybe that's like too tougher question of parts, but look
at what Jamal Murray was during the playoffs for much of the postseason. This
is I mean, he has to be the best player in the league right
now that hasn't made an All Star Game for sure because we had Fox and
SGA both make it this year. So and Michael Porter Junior is just Stephan
says over the last five years. Yeah, I mean sure, it's certainly
debate now and it's Yokich has been people who are uncomfortable with him maybe winning
a third MVP award said, well, it's just gonna look weird when you
go back and you see the all time greats Now, it looks weird that
he didn't. He looks weird the other way. I won't. I won't
strip that away from Joel Embiid because I we get into that discussion where you
see one player win a title who finished runner up, Like we could go
back through history and start yanking MVPs away from a bunch of people. But
Yokich is an all time great and that's just got to be an arguable at
this point. And what I what I like, I don't want to talk
about get too much into the future with them. Bruce Brown's free agency is
going to be fascinating because he's going to get more money than they can offer.
And they could go the route of you know what Patom did in LA
or Jackson did in LA, where if you signed for less, they'll give
you a bigger deal with you early bird rights. That was different for both
those guys because they were still Patom was impactful and so was Jackson. They
were on the downswing of their careers, and they had gotten paid. Bruce
Brown has never been cap slock paid. But the Nuggets are clearly like,
when's the last time you saw a team in the finals pull off a trade
in the final? So they sent a twenty twenty nine first to Okay,
see an exchange for a twenty twenty three second, a twenty twenty four first
at a twenty twenty four second. I still don't know what the protections are
on their twenty twenty nine first. I would guess it's at least top five.
They're looking at the landscape right now and they're seeing Okay, that's second.
Apron makes it incredibly difficult, if only because maybe you were never going
to broach it, but if you get close enough to it, you're not
gonna be able to spend the entire mini mid level exception. And because they
hit on Christian Brown, who Holy crap, by the way, Christian Brown
like turn into he was a big zone buster for them, like in game
was a Game four the defense not on Jimmy Butler like being switched on to
Bam at points and just holding his own. They're confident in their process and
their ability to find guys on the cheap, and they want to make sure
that they have capable bodies to field within this window. I always get a
little cringey when I see a twenty twenty nine first or first that far off
into the distance get dealt in a non star trade. But I'm just no,
you did the right thing here because you want to maximize this window.
I know for a fact the organization is. And to be fair, they
were this way about Zeke Nagy preseason, and he I know he get with
injuries, but he kind of became an after thought. They are so high
on Peyton Watson and so I'm curious to see whether we see more of him
neck or a bunch more of him next season. I like the fact that
they're thinking this way because and this is the title that we have for this.
I do think the way that the new collective bargaining agreement is set up
and the current parody in the league is it runs counter to the idea of
can there be a dynasty or can there be this team that will run things
win back to back titles, three titles in four or five years. Do
you think the Nuggets, with what they have in place, are built to
enter that or defy that conversation, to enter that realm of oh, there
you already mentioned there's a team to beat, but like their favorites to win
next season, as they should be, by the way, like they should
absolutely be the favorites to win next season. But just this is so sustainable
that we could be looking at the first of if you want to use the
word many or fut I do. And I'd start up by saying, you
know, the rules about how you can build a team in the NBA have
changed several times over the years, right like go going back to there,
you didn't even used to be free agency, like you know, decades ago
and so, and we've still had dynasties throughout So I think the idea that
this set of rule changes to the CBA makes it harder to build a dynasty
is kind of it's half right, because it's all it means is it's gonna
be harder to build a dynasty the way that you built one over the last
like eight ten years. It's still doable, and teams always find a way
because whatever the rules are, it still comes down to do you have the
best player or like a guy that is very much in that conversation and enough
around him. So it just changed how you go about doing that and how
you keep it together. But with respect to the Nuggets in particular, I
do think I want to be careful about again more prisoner of the moment stuff.
But there was a stretch in the third quarter I think it was the
third quarter of Game four where Yokits was in foul trouble and he was out
and he went out with a ten point lead, and it was that that
stretch and he comes back in after like five and a half minutes and up
nine, and it was because KCP had like a strip steal that led to
a Murray breakout for a Gordon layup or a Brown layup, and they hit
a couple corner threes and like the defense was there and they scrapped, and
like there's this additional it's not just Yokich lifting all these guys. Like maybe
that's the reason all these supporting players who everybody but Brown that matters is under
contract to your point for multiple years. It's not just that, like they
turn into something different with him out there. Like obviously having Yokich is the
most important ingredient to a potential dynasty, but all these other guys have proven
now that they're more than just beneficiaries of Yokis, Like they believe that they
can you know, win finals minutes or not dramatically lose them, which was
not the case really for Yoki's entire career. They just still get killed when
with him off the floor. So if the factor that in, But I
just think they have the financial set up for this to work for at least
another three four years. Uh, they have the best player in the league
and they have I mean, honestly, like the ambition. It's because like
what the first thing Mike Malone said was we're not satisfied, and then like
all you know, that's and that's weird that that that's that's parade talk,
you know, that's not We're on the podium accepting the trophy. So and
then you look at the landscape around the league, like who who is the
who would you nominate as? And this is obviously like, you know,
impossible, But I'm not sure I see another team that I feel as comfortable
about returning at like the same level or I just you know, we started
the season with the Bucks and it was like, no notes, right,
we don't have any questions, Like now we have questions. I feel like
right now, in the wake of this title, I don't have any questions
about the Nuggets other than how do you make the Bruce Brown thing work,
which like in the grand scheme of you know, championship roster building, Yeah,
he's super important, but it's not like you're facing Jamal Murray's unrestricted free
agency or like this extension that's due this critical player like you know, Jalen
Brown with the Celtics as an example. So yeah, I think I think
they very much look like a team that could win more titles over the next
you know, three, four or five years for sure. But I would
give them better odds than anybody else if that if that's like the best cop
out answer. No, it's not even a cop out. And I think
what also helps is that, I mean, winning kind of heals this to
begin with. But there's gonna be no agitation at least you wouldn't think.
I guess you could get to a point where, you know, does Jamal
Murray or Michael Porter Junior want a different type of role, But just the
evolution of Michael Porter Junior's mindset on the court over the past few years,
this is like a team that's very together and you're not gonna worry about anyone
asking for out. It's like Jannis in Milwaukee, except the difference is the
core is not aging, like not pass their prot or getting closer to the
end of their heyday. Let's say around him, like Nicole Yokitch himself,
it'll be his age twenty eight season next year, ditto for Aaron Dan Bruce
Brown. By the way, that this was only the age twenty sixth season,
it feels like he's been around for a few minutes, but he's you
know, next year of these age twenty sevent season, Murray next years his
age twenty sixth season, Michael Porter Jr. Next year his age twenty five
season, it's like, this is still you know, they're not they have
experience now and they're just set up like to endure and just have this prolonged
title window, and so it's yeah, dynasty might be an inflammatory word,
but I think you kind of summed it up best where it's, well,
what other team in the league are you actually trusting to be around this long?
I think the closest I would come to, and I would put the
Nuggets above them, but I think it's just Boston because of the way they're
set up, and even you kind of sense just some unease there. I
don't know if that's manufactured by the media, and just like fan consternation more
than anything. They've been to the conference finals in each of the past two
years, in the NBA Finals once that's the only team that you look and
it's like, oh, they're kind of set up to because we don't know,
there's a lot of unknowns and you're trying to look at up and commerce
where it's all right, well, what kind of happens with Cleveland, what's
gonna go on with Memphis? And then like, yeah, there'll be other
teams that emerge. Then you of other ones where it feels like, Okay,
well they're kind of at the end of their their run where it's Golden
State, like that's going somewhere. We don't necessarily know where the Kings are
gonna go. I'm not saying they're at the end of their run. That
was a team that I should looped into the first category. Milwaukee is just
you have Yannis, so you're fine. But it's just this team is Stephan
Storry if it said Yoki just kind of old. I mean, he's going
in an age twenty eight season. The way he plays, I don't know
if he's at all he might play like. I'm not sure athletic decline is
going to really affect him too much. As Blown says, the Pelicans,
depending on what they decide to do. They've been linked to trading for Scoot
Henderson or Brandon Millner. You're not doing that without trading Zion or brandon Ingram
for anyone who cares about that. So this team is look dynasty's and inflammatory
word. But I do think there's maybe one team in the league that you
could argue is in a better position to do that, And you can't even
make that argument anymore. Because hey asked, what the Nuggets have a title
and the Celtics court is not. You know what's interesting about the Nuggets too,
is in addition, so they feel a little bit like I'm sure I
was trying to think of teams that won multiple titles with guys like in there
early to like prime prime years, and just the most recent one is the
Warriors with you know, their their main guys in their late twenty you know,
mid to late twenties, and then they added veterans. The Nuggets haven't
even really gotten and just Alexander Pavashevitch says, just wanted to say that US
Nuggets fans are skeptical about DeAndre, but he mattered ultimately, So the Nuggets
like, that's fine that he was I think helpful. But the Nuggets haven't
gotten like the Sean Livingston andre Iguodala types yet, you know, like Jeff
Green is, you know, on towards the end of a long and productive
career, but like he had a rough he did not look good in these
finals. So there there's a version of this team going forward where having won
a title, they a tract one or two veterans that like playing the right
way that will take a little less to fill in these like seventh and eighth
man spots. Potentially that could really elevate them as guys like Christian Brown continue
to improve and possibly if guys like Bruce Brown come back. I think that's
another kind of like argument in favor of this looking kind of dynastic because they
still haven't supplemented the roster with you know, really still productive vets that have
like a year or two of high end play left, which sort of starts
that's the type of thing that starts to happen after you win that first one
is you get like a David West like the Warriors got, you know,
someone like that that starts to supplement with a bunch of experience on the cheap.
The other thing I'm interested to see about like falling under this umbrella,
is we talk a lot about the championship hangover effect, and there's something about
this team and you already mentioned the Michael Malone comments, and I think that
Yokich would approach the beginning of every season whether his team just won twelve games
versus if they just want a title in the same way. It feels like
there was this level of self discovery that is only going to make them more
dangerous, at least immediately moving forward. I think some of the things that
stand out for sure Christian Brown, of course, but just Aaron Gordon,
like knowing always what he was capable of defensively, but now seeing him in
when I think was always his ideal offensive role. Maybe he didn't see him
being as effective attacking mismatches or smaller players, so you find that out.
But the bigger, the two bigger things. Jemal Murray is just that dude,
and there's still questions about what where would he rank if Yokich wasn't on
the team, and can he carry those units during the regular season without Yokich.
Doesn't matter because Yokich is there and these two are perfect for one another.
We don't even have that discussion. But his playoff performance, where we
talk a lot about him having those peaks and valleys, as it progressed,
it felt like we were getting less of those valleys, and the fact that
he can turn it on defensively, like his screen navigation at points against Jimmy
Butler when they got cross matched was incredible. And then the biggest one of
all, by the way, though, might just be Michael Porter Junior,
because this is someone who has improved a great deal defensively over the past couple
of years. I think we saw Progress as a one on one guy a
lot of the time. He had some really bad moments in the final,
but Progress is a team defender overall. Progress is a one on one guy.
He really bothered the Sun, specifically with his length in that series,
and you're looking at someone who when you were kind of trying to pay the
wildcard where is would he want more? Would he deviate from the script too
much? He now just fits into the entire context of their offense, even
when he's not hitting his jumpers, and there'll still be some kind of eye
roll. Oh he gets tunnel vision. He takes that jumper that he shouldn't
have. But his cutting like the way he worked on the glass, And
I'm not saying he's gonna play like this for all eighty two games of the
regular season, but it kind of also makes you wonder he had what game
was it? I think was it against Miami? Like six assists in one
of the games. If there's a player like we might say. Murray said
that he doesn't think Yokich is done improving. We've people thought about how Murray's
not done improving, like Michael Porter Junior still has what could be a next
profound gear to get to, and he is capable of reaching while still being
on this team and so knowing that they can attack you in these alternative ways
like these individual players, not even just the team. To me, it
kind of I don't know how you would measure championship hangover. I think you
can only look at like the start of their record, but this team moving
forward feels more dangerous than it does in this moment, if that makes I
don't know if that makes any They just won the titles, so or are
they ever going to be this dangerous? I mean they might, but when
you look at I feel like the things that we learned about them maybe what
they always knew about themselves, but it was never executed on this level,
and there were still a lot of you know, I think even Malone with
some of the stagger patterns he had with the lineups where he was really leaning
into defense around Jamal Murray in the non Jokis minutes. This team has so
much more information about itself and individuals that I look at im and I'm like
it's not even just about them sustaining. It feels like they have another gear
collectively that they can reach. I think i'd summarize it the simplest way I
would look at it is of all the guys that matter on this roster,
and again all of whom will be back. Other than maybe Brown, you
would say that the odds of them staying as good as they are or getting
better are way higher than like there's not I don't see decline, Like who
would you even pick as the guy that like, well he was a little
over his head and agewise like KCP, Like no, that guy's just he's
just the new Danny Green, Like that's that's kind of like he's just gonna
be on championship teams for a long time, CHAP. So like there's just
nobody where you're looking at like whether they're really going to have to replace that
because he's gonna slip, Like that's just not And usually that is what you
get with the championship team, or at least very often because because often it'll
take you know, your all your principles and then someone will step up and
have you know, some like the heat, say like had Kyle Lowry had
a great finals and they'd won the title, you'd be like, well,
he's all nice and all, but I mean he's thirty seven, so we
gotta worry, you know, do you worry about that anyway? With Lowry
and the heat who we should probably talk about at some point here, But
that's not Denver doesn't have that guy. This is just all the arrows are
either you know, horizontal or trending up. And like, that's a pretty
sweet place to be when you just just prove yourself as the best team in
the league. You know, they're they're incredible. And the last thing I
wanted to get to on this there was this tweet from Kaitlyn Cooper that I
want to show up on screen about how everyone looks for lessons to kind of
be learned whenever there's like a different finals victory. So she tweeted a few
things and basketball are worse than absolute. Yoki's just crumbled a bunch of definitive
notions about what wins in the playoffs when the reality is there often isn't a
specific mold, but rather optimizing special talent and the qualities of what can break
from the mold. And I think that's kind of a huge takeaway for me
from this playoffs. She just put it so much more eloquently than I than
I ever could have that like, we kind of have to If we learn
anything from this playoffs, it's maybe we need to reevaluate how we measure winning
in the playoffs. I still think what Bob Meyers said way back when about
finding guys who can play across the most sixteen wins of your season because they
can exist in the eighty two game vacuum but not on the postseason stages.
Effectively, That's still salient, But there is just like I don't know if
Yo Kich or then like if Yo Kids single handedly does this, or if
the Nuggets in general have done this, but this was very much a team
that was optimized to buttress what should have been its strongest weaknesses. And like,
for as much as Michael Porter improved defensively, as much as Murray did
defensively, as good as Yokich was defensively for most of these playoffs, like
there was insulation here in the form of we went out and got Aaron Gordon
and Bruce Brown and KCP and there was you know there one of was there
enough size in those defensive wings. Do you have enough? Do you have
enough to get by it to the back up big position. They still figured
out a way to optimize their best players and cover up for what still would
be You could say their defense was great during the postseason and specifically during the
series against Miami. That was still the biggest concern about them, and it
was fair. But they found a way to just it's not even covered that,
but maximize the talent that they had by getting talent that just fit so
well. And I think that's something to take moving forward, and maybe some
people want to glean that, Oh is patients more important? I don't know
that NBA organizations are ever going to be patient, And I think a lot
of this is just could there have been stars in Yoka situation who might have
wanted out after x anount of years of not winning, Like that's always going
to be regardless of what the NBA does to twist the free agency rules,
like that's always going to be an element of team building. But I think
that the Nuggets are just kind of they turned so many preconceived notions, like
to kind of book end this discussion, like how we started it, they
turned so many preconceived notions on its heads, and so there is a big
takeaway. It's not their specific like roster makeup, it's how they went about
it took a while, it was gradual, like how they went about just
optimizing their best talent and like what the end result end it ended up being
Yeah, no, I think I agree with you. I think that's why
it feels we don't every time a team wins a title, we don't immediately
pivot a dynasty talk like that's that's unusual. And I think that is something
that is arising specifically because of the nuggets. You know, there's just something,
there's something there that feels a little different than than You're not that there's
a typical title winner, but from how we feel most often after the finals
are over, where do you want to take it with the heat? Do
you want to like I just let me start. I think now it's still
hard to evaluate them, but it's for a different reason, like we had
a hell of a time basically from the moment they you know, lost the
first playing game to yesterday of like what what is like the true like water
level of this team, Like where where are they really? Because this overperformance
all this other stuff. Thank you, Rob, you also rock, Like,
are they the team that got outscored in the regular season? Are they
the team that you know, beat the Bucks and the Knicks and and everybody.
It's just like, I think we need to sort of move that sort
of uncertainty level up a few notches because you just can't take away what they
did making it to the finals and getting a game against the team we just
spent thirty five minutes saying how great they are and how they're going to be
a historic juggernaut basically. But I also think there are real questions, you
know, like they're that that could fundamentally change this heat roster. I don't
know, do you want to take it in like a post mortem? Do
you just have any as your general opinion of the heat change. Maybe that's
the way to start it, Like are they really much closer to a team
that makes the finals than a team that you know is like a one round
and out type of type of ceiling. I feel like we have to default
towards the former because they just did it twice where it's like they were in
the conference or they've been in the finals two of the past four years.
Conference finals three of the past four years, and so I do think my
opinion of them has changed that well, maybe they are closer than we think.
And when I look at this is I feel like people are gonna twist
themselves and do a pretzel pretzel trying to find that profound move. We're already
seeing the reports that they tried to trade for Kyrie. We're already seeing you
know, the aggregation, like Heat fans want them to trade for Damian Millard,
which okay, great, if that's the route they go, fine,
like they have Max Struce, Gabe Vincent, Heywood high Smith. By the
way, they're free agents Kevin Loves a free agent two if they bring everybody
back, and that's assuming they don't have bird rights on Kevin Love. But
they're gonna have second Apron concerns. I think they're at like one seventy seven
million, and that's just with cap holds for there's no actually that's with no
cap holds for like Max Strus or Gabe Vincent. It's like they're going to
be in the second Apron territory where they might lose their mid level. And
you know what, fine, because you don't just let those guys walk.
I mean, maybe they think they could just find them. But here's where
I land on the heat is I think, insofar as they're not going to
leave for just absurd contracts, you bring everybody back, and if there's the
move to be made on the trade market, then okay, go ahead and
pounce. But I don't know that losing in the finals to a team that
we think might be winning more finals in the mere future is time for existential
panic, especially when it's kind of backed up by this recent track record of
them competing at the absolute highest level in the postseason. I get that there's
it feels like there was a fragility there. Kyle Lowry's age, even Jimmy
Butler's age, the half court offense just being iffy for how many years now,
And you just got proof that you might it's not throwing the money away,
but you don't need Tyler hero Like You're like that that's a roster piece
you could chang. Now. Maybe the counter argument is suddenly their offense looks
a lot better with him out there, But I think I think my takeaway
with respect a hero from this playoff run is that, like, at best,
he's neutral, you know, and that's a significant salary slot. That
so him and the Lowry piece are the ones where if you're of the mind
that the Heat are going to go star hunt, like, those are the
tools, those salaries. But I agree with you. I think you look
at this team and I think, now, I don't know, if you
ask me to like predict the standings in the East for next year, how
many teams would be ahead of them. It would probably be a few.
But then we'll get into the playoffs and all we're gonna be able to talk
about, assuming they make the playoffs, which was iffy this year, will
be Okay, we know what they do. You know, how hard is
it going to be in a first and second round to pick someone to beat
the Heat after we just watch what they've done and like you alluded to what
they did a couple of years ago, So I have a I feel like
they're more likely to make a splashy move than to bring all these guys back.
That's my gut, Even though that feels weird as a reaction to we
there was one team we couldn't beat, You know that like that that's a
weird place to be. I don't disagree that they if they can, they
should, but when you're looking for that move, you're at the mercy of
the trade market. And I don't know that you need to rush into anything
because it's so tough because we have a regular season's worth of information. And
by the way, shout out to Matt Moore of Action Network pointed this out,
because you and I were both concerned with this dovetails with the Nuggets about
how Denver was performing throughout the last six weeks of the season. No more
taking March and April basketball in the NBA. Seriously, I'm done. I'm
with him, I'm done like it. I feel like we get burned by
it every year. Both I'm a good and bad end of the spectrum.
But the heat it was different. They were different because we had an entire
season's worth of sample that was saying, no, this squad is is not
elite and they're missing something, and there was this huge drop off from last
year. And now I think it's reasonable you look at the roster and say,
Okay, well, Kyle Lowry is getting older, he's not going he's
already kind of just been diminished offensively, and how much can you lean on
him moving forward? And so I get the impetus to say they need to
make a big move. You mentioned it already. It's Tyler Hero and Kyle
Lowry and I go back and forth on Tyler Hero because his offense. I
don't know if it was the only thing they were missing, but for what
their offense needed, he was exactly the missing piece. And yet he was
available for Game five, it seems like, and then he didn't play.
I haven't seen any follow up on that. And if you're that worried about
him compromising your defense to where you feel like you can't play him and Dug
the Robinson at the same time, or even him and Max Strews, who
like Max Streus was Yeah, So, if you're that worried about his defense
to where you feel like you can't play that way, or you don't want
to downsize that much when you've been running so small to begin with, that's
when you start to look around. But I don't know if they're are,
like, don't they feel closer than a Damian Lillard away though? Is I
guess what I'm getting at? Yeah, I think so. I mean you
have to think that, because well, any is Damian l just made the
finals. We're like well, do they need like a top ten player to
make sure that'd be cool? That would certainly help, But yeah, you're
right, I don't think they need you know, Bradley Beale or whoever whatever
other you know, extremely expensive uh, you know, big upgrade would be
out there. Although like this gets back to the original thing. I like,
is Gabe Vincent this good? And is Max Drew's this good? Because
the regular season says no, Duncan Robbinson this good? And if they're not,
then like maybe you do actually need that level of upgrade, you know
what I mean, Like if but then we're just I'm just going in circles
because the heat always do that to me. But then should you shouldn't you
assume that most of these guys will be this good in the playoffs because that's
just happened a handful of times now, Like, I don't know, it's
hard. It's that makes it more difficult to decide what level of upgrade they
need, because even if we have more information that like our outlook on them
should skew more towards their playoff you know, performance than their regular season one.
I don't know if that's necessarily like a safe way to think about it
across the board, Like, you know, they're better than the regular season,
but they may not be quite as good as they were in the playoffs.
So like, what do you actually need, Like what level of upgrade
do you need? And can you get one? Because you're right, like
it doesn't need to be this offseason necessarily, it could be at the deadline.
It could not happen at all, like the Bam Autobio could learn to
shoot threes, and like, who knows what that does for this team?
You know that there's a lot of ways to go. I guess I would
frame it this way, is if they made an upgrade and they're oddly set
up when you look at their salary structures. I guess if you're willing to
move Kayla Martin, which I don't know why you would on this contract as
bad as he was offensively in the finals for most of it. And I
guess they have Victor Oladipo's nine point five million dollars dollar. But like,
you're not really built to do anything other than make a mega trade because your
five players or four players, oh yeah, five players next year with Tyler
Heiro making eighteen plus million and four players making twenty seven plus million, and
then after that, Victor Oladipo is your highest paid player at nine point five.
But like we everyone's gonna get into the stars. Maybe they'll think that,
oh, do they get in on the Kyrie or Ring sweepstakes or do
they look at Bradley Biel or Zacholine or Damian Lillard, Like if they just
got a boy on Bardanovitch to plug the four, Like is that something that
does enough? Or does it? It needs to be a bigger move than
that. And this is all we have. We don't know what's gonna actually
happen in the off season where I would if I had to bet high Smith,
Vincent and Strus they're not all going to be back next wedn't think.
I wouldn't think. I mean like you would have because this team just made
the finals. Like, if you're gonna be just skyrocket past that second luxury
apron, then I think owners are gonna be very concerned about And yet they're
not even they're so close to it that they can't even like they would have
to dump mega salary if they want to access have access to their mid level
exception. They're in. They're in a tough spot. I just don't think
it's I guess as dire as people are bound, because even before they lost
Game five, some of the headlines were like do they need to go out
and get a star? And I just I don't think. I don't think
they need to make upgrades. And I look at the four spots specifically where
it was Okay, Kayla Martin had great moments, Kevin Love had great moments.
Even if they still had PJ. Tucker, I don't know if he
would have been all the difference in the world. They need a four and
preferably someone who's going to be like a really big offensive threat at the four,
like and obviously not torpedo your defense. And so I've wondered, like,
could this be a sneaky John Collins team where I was just thinking John
Collins before you said it. Yeah, where it's maybe the players are expensive,
like to pay, but to get them via trade shouldn't cost you the
moon Where's Damian Lillard is gonna even at his age, is gonna cost you?
And that doesn't solve your problem at the four, Like you're just you're
kind of just upgrading your guard position where you're going from let's say just Kyle
Lowry and Tyler here or to Damian Lillard. Yeah, you do that,
but to flesh out your roster if they can make and they're going have to
do it via trade. And I think that's why trades are gonna be to
focus with the Heat because it's unless they get super lucky on minimum deals where
they find undrafted guys where they hit on their number eighteen pick whatever it is.
Or you think Nikola Yovic is like the next great thing. It has
to happen via trade for them, whatever real upgrades they make. Yeah,
I agree. Yeah, I don't know. Oh, go ahead, I
was gonna say, I don't have any other Heat thoughts. Do you want
to talk about the Raptors hiring a coach or they got any straight strays on
the Heat left. I don't really have any strays in the heat. I
just think my opinion of them has changed in sort of the affirmative where I
think that they're they're maybe they're not as close as making the finals suggest but
they're not we need to you know, go nuclear over the off season.
Yeah, but yeah, let's talk. So the Raptors finally and they were
were they the first team to have No, the Pistons were the first team
to have the head coaching vacancy, right or was that was that Toronto?
That was so long ago. I have no idea, Dan. They were
one of the first two teams with a coaching vacancy, and they were the
final one to phil said vacancy, and they hired U Darko Ryukovich. And
what you're saying that I might have pronounced that wrong, I'm seeing. So
I looked. I did some research because I so it's it's think of pages
Stoyakovitch, so like Rayakovich that because I found a tweet where he says his
own name. So I'm going with that one. Then go with that one
because I was using someone else who said it on TV. So Yakovich,
Yakovich, Rayakovich. Okay, Darko Ryakovitch. They're gonna have to be one
that I perfect. It's funny that I tried to do this beforehand and still
fucked it up. We have a question from blow and we'll get to about
the Pelicans, of course, so they hire him. I don't know what
to think. I mean, people seem to like him from Memphis. I
don't know what to make of this. Did you find it interesting that they
went with you know, they did this with Nick Nurse, so maybe he
don't find it interesting, but they went the first time head coach route here.
I think it's interesting by definition because Messiau Jerry has never hired a coach
like outside of his own organization when he's been in charge of a team,
so like this is a first chance to pick someone. And so it's tricky
because we know so little about Ryokovic and hey, he's had no head coaching
reps at the NBA level, so it's like not knowing anything about him.
I don't know what that says about Messiah Jerry's priorities or what direction the roster
may go. I do think it suggests that like a rebuild, and you
could couple this with Van Fleet opting out and some of the reporting suggesting maybe
he's not coming back. It seems like player development is something that they're going
to focus on. And that makes sense to me because like Scottie Barnes didn't
get better and a Nobi has not progressed like many of us have hoped he
would. So I don't know if I'm saying this is a teardown, but
it does seem like a little bit of this higher suggests to me like a
little bit of a reset or at least like a an emphasis is being put
on, you know, different elements of franchise building or whatever. Then maybe
was there under Nurse who was sort of like the reputation was like tactical mad
scientists, like is not developing guys but figures out how to use them in
weird ways, just a little different. So I mean it's hard. Again,
this is all guesswork because we've never seen this guy coach in NBA game
and we can't be sure. But if I had to pick, I think
it does indicate maybe that the Raptors are putting more of an emphasis on developing
youth, you know, getting their guys that they highly value to improve.
But but again hard to say. I think what makes it even tougher and
I think it was Sham's had this report that Fred van Fleet is likely to
leave in free agency I'm talking about. Yeah, I like that, So
I'm with you there, But it kind of goes against and I know it's
protected, but it's top six protected them pivoting into more of a gradual timeline.
Now after giving up a top six protected pick, for Yakapartle would be
weird. Think you could technically it's within your control to keep that pick,
but that's only if you're Cathlock bad. And so if they're go doing what
you're saying and they're really going to prioritize development, I guess they still believe
they're going to be really good, and I just I would question the pathway
to them being really good without van Fleet specifically because of how important I would
still think that he is to the well like one getting aaka Peurdle the ball,
but also just like the spacing that's kind of not great to begin with
right now anyway, and maybe you still look at the talent on this team
and if okay, well, if he leaves and GTJ leaves, they still
Scottie Barnes and Anobi and Siakam and let's say they bring back Purdle, could
they still be a good regular season team. This team has been sending i'd
be like, mixed messages since the start of last season, and I don't
even think that I would hazard to guess as to what their intent is.
But I will say, if if it's true, if that's just not sort
of a a leverage which happens a lot like disinformation season. That's where we're
at. Fred Van. He wants his highest contract possible. He wants the
Raptors think he has options. If you lose him, I know that he's
not considered their best player, and he's not considered their most important player.
I think, looking long term, that' Scotty Barnes. If you lose him,
I don't know how you avoid kind of like starting over, because I
just feel like he's mission critical to maximizing what right now is an imperfectly built
offensive setup. Mixed messages is right. It is weird, Like I think
the pick, the personal analysis. Everyone comes here for a grant and I
just to say, well, and the Raptors are weird. Here's the thing.
The Peartle pick, the pick attached to the Pearl deal means you can't
fully rebuild. I don't think. I mean maybe maybe if you people think
that draft class sucks, but yeah, but I mean, nobody fucking knows
this way. It's like way too early for that. If you I don't
think you can go full rebuild. I think if you have Annaobi, and
if you trade Annaobi for a couple first, maybe that changes because you sort
of you know, insulated yourself against the pain of potentially losing a you know,
a seventh pick or whatever. There's a lot of ways that could go.
I think probably if you have Siakam and Ananobi and Barnes and if you
lose Van Fleet, like a decent like look, the Raptors half court offense
was bad. At some point we have to say Van Fleet was not good
enough at making that offense what it needed to be. Like I was gonna
ask, like overrating Vanet, right, it's not even just like he's not
a two level of score, he's not a three levels. So I really
like van Fleet. And he's another guy that's like, you know, he's
proven it in the biggest games, but he's a small guard. He shoots,
you know, routinely around like forty percent from the field, like just
these crazy low numbers. He buttresses that with a bunch of threes. But
I wonder, do you think he's a little overrated, like I saw it
like John Hollinger did some you know, he's breaking down free agency and you
know he's making the comparison of of I'm not sure how much worse Van Fleet
is than Kyrie Irving. Now Kyrie Irving comes with like a million you know
asterisks, But like I think Van Vleet might be getting a little like he
should make more than twenty two million, which is the player option he's going
to decline. But I don't know if like he's not a thirty million dollar
guy, which if that's what he gets, I totally understand the Raptors saying
like, nah, that's we're not doing that. He's a thirty million dollar
guy. The right team, I just don't what's the right team would like
you know what I mean, I'm asking you, like impossible retire would be
perfect for him. Yeah, okay, if he doesn't have tap space,
let me just let me make all the teams. I can't. Orlando where
sort of like they're gonna run like they'll need they'll need him to organize some
of the offense. But they're gonna use him a bunch of off ball and
they have other creators that are really going to insulate him. Where it's like
Toronto has Siakam and even Siakam and I don't mean this is an insult because
Siakham was borderline all NBA this year. There's like a slower processing speed to
the way he attacks. That's their whole team. That's their whole team.
You know what I mean. But you're you're no, you're not wrong.
That is that is a knock on him. I just think if if you're
having to say, well, he makes sense in Orlando van Vleet because he
won't have to be that you've got these two for words that are you're like
primary shot creators. That's awesome. If he just is a spot up guy
and a second side attacker and runs some pick and rolls, that's great to
me. Like, because you're making all these qualifying statements of why he's a
good fit there, it's like, well, then he's not a thirty million
dollar player, just like you know, in a vacuum. I guess.
I guess to them, maybe he would be. But all I'm saying is
like, I don't feel like it's catastrophic if if the Raptors lose Van Fleet.
I think there's a scenario where they replace him with god knows what,
because they don't they won't have a ton of assets. But and the offense
like is either not that much worse or maybe just where it was or even
a little better. Like that's totally on the table to me, I guess
maybe i'd agree with you if I thought the point guard market this year was
more conducive, Like how are you replacing him? If he leaves, you're
gonna get let's say they you're gonna Gabe Vincent. Yeah. Maybe maybe that's
why he's a thirty million dollar player, because there's just nobody out there,
and that's you know, before we get to the question from Bloom who's more
overrated? And this presupposed that both were overrated. I don't know if that.
I'm there on Fred van Fleet, But who's more overrated? Fred van
Fleet or Oganna Nobi? Oh man, I'm gonna say van Fleet. I
think Annonobi just fits anywhere and with respect. So if annon Obi were making
I don't know what he's making. Oh my god, he's thinking eighteen this
year. He's not overrated. That's a steal for eighteen. If van Fleet
gets three, okay, independent of their salary, come, I don't know
what who's doing the rating and what's the basis because we've been waiting for like
the offensive leap from Ogianna Nobi since he ended the league and haven't gotten it
right. And I think the stuff he does defensively special. But you would
rather pay O G n and Obe thirty million dollars a year than Fred van
Fleet. Well, that's it's a close question for me. The age is
a factor, the positional versatility as a factor. I don't know who's more
overrated. I think og has become overrated because and my the thing that signaled
me to it is how everyone thought that Memphis needed to mortgage the farm to
get him, and it was like, that is not the player that they
need, where it's like he would help which as they need someone who I'm
always going to value any level of trace offensive creation, and Fred van Fleet
certainly has that, even his off ball creation, like with his movement where
Ada Nobi's gonna be. You can give him the ball, maybe he can
bully balls way to some stuff, but Fred van Fleet's more functional to me,
both on and away from the ball. Yeah, shot creation is the
most important skiller is. I think that that's that's a that's a good piece
of evidence for your point. I do think maybe we get an answer because
if van Fleet is gone and then we see what the Raptors offense becomes without
him or like with a replacement level guy in his spot. But you're concerned
to find out your point, it's not even concern. Your fact is fair.
The half court offense still that he wasn't able to elevate it. I
don't even know specifically what they ranked during his minutes, like in the half
court like they had a very even at their peak this year, they had
a very just mediocre at best half court offense. And so I totally understand
where you're coming from if you need him to be that player. And the
Raptors half court offense though, was seven point three points better per one hundred
plays with him with him on, and so that might be they were also
playing that ninety minutes a game and like all really start or heavy. But
no, you're I think that's I think you probably just won the argument based
on that. Stead Let's get to this question that we weren't playing on answering
but from blown, do you think the Pelicans would trade Zion or Ingram for
the number three pick? And I do want to just re orient this question
a little bit to say, do you think they would trade because it seems
like they're very much interested in Scoot Henderson, not Bred and Miller and so
would you trade either one of those guys for Scoot Henderson. I'm having a
hard time not like Zion. Right now is probably the wrong time to be
evaluating Zion. I think there's a lot of like non basketball stuff that obviously
is like you might just want to get rid of. I think they might.
I think they might, and I think it was wild they should you
think so time. Look which which are the two, Ingram or Zion?
Though, if you had to pick, if the pelf, if the if
the Blazer said pick one, if the play, if the Blazer said pick
one, I wow. The fact that I probably would, I think you
have to go Ingram if you're too but you hesitated, and I would too
because it's that close, which is crazy. Wow. But I'm just at
the point with Zion that run they had this season in the middle of the
year, I was just like, Oh, it's yeah, Zion, it's
so dominant. But this dude cannot for them so far as not stayed on
the floor. And I get the counter argument would be, we don't know.
You have to think Scoot Hendrickson this special, which I think we both
are in agreement that he is going to be be special. Zion is still
so young that it feels, and so is Ingram, by the way,
but I think you know what you're giving up if you trade brandon Ingram.
Zion is twenty two, he's gonna turn twenty three in July. To give
up on him now feels like malpractice. But it's just he's missed basically two
thirds of the career games he's been eligible to play. And if you're going
to Scoot Henderson route anyway, like that's kind of your advantage creator And is
the fit with Zion as clean as it might be with with Ingram? I
get like, because even Scoot Henderson's gonna replace I don't know anyone can replace
what Like, He's gonna supplant a lot of Zion's rim pressure anyway, And
I'd be interested to see them play together. I feel like, if you're
just going based off what peaks could be, you would have to pick Ingram.
But if it's just it's the Blazers or the let's say the Hornets,
because Scoot mic go two and if I were the Hornets, I would take
him it too. If it's Zion for Scoot, I don't know, man,
I might be doing it at this point. But again, I don't
know if I'm just like trapped in this, like I've I've fallen in love
with the Pelicans. With Zion so often they look they're on the custom of
something. Only we pulled back by injuries specifically to him, but also Ingram
had his own issues this year, so to herb joone YadA, YadA,
YadA. And also is there an element that it's is it easier to it's
easier to build a team around Zion than Ingram because I don't think you should
build a team around Ingram. That's that would be my stance. Yeah,
but Ingram scales two more total situations. I think it's the best way to
put it. I think that is the fundamental issue with Zion is it's it
is clear that when he is healthy and on the floor, he is the
center around which you build of a very very good team. He's a He's
a difficult player to build around though, because he has like pronounced weaknesses on
both ends, and you have to be like pretty careful and pretty circumspect,
and like how what guys you put around him? You need specific things.
And then he's also never healthy, so it's like you build this tailor made
roster to suit what your best player. Who Again, we got evidence like
when he's right, he's he's an All NBA. Like Dion has played at
a level already that Ingram, i'd say, is highly unlikely to ever reach.
Like I know Ingram has been an All Star, but just like Ingram
has never had stretches where it's like Jesus Christ, this guy is All NBA
First Team. He's gonna average thirty points a game, He's gonna shoot sixty
percent, Like just he's never touching that Zion, just like he's great when
in the stretches where he plays and he's healthy, it's just so hard.
So if you add scoop, this is what it gets around. It gets
back to you trade Ingram for the pick, right, you get Scoot Henderson
in there. I feel like that insulates you a little bit, so you're
not just left with this weird ass roster when Zion's not healthy and out there.
But your point is right, like it does you have to think about,
well, if we take the ball out of Zion's hands creation wise,
like what's he doing? You know? Are we are? We Like it's
a screens and stuff, but yeah, but it's just different, right,
So I don't know. I think I think the answer is Ingram. You
would trade Ingram for the number three pick? I think, I think full
stop, I would probably do that if I'm New Orleans. You gotta throw
some you gotta get take some money back or whatever. But it's not easy,
Like what you're left with is not necessarily a simple setup with Zion and
what you assume is going to be like an All Star, you know,
ball dominant point guard. We have New Orleans fans in the discord chat,
and I'll be interesting what they have to say on this matter. Do you
want to take us out of here? On a segment that we did not
think we're gonna go this long? I'm just the Nuggets and Heat and then
a little bit of Raptors Pelicans stop. Apparently we had to do it because
we won't have basketball games or teams playing to talk about for quite a while.
Now. Yeah, we will have NBA basketball for quite some time.
We are going to have to shift into off season mode, which we will
be doing immediately after we hit end on this podcast. Would you like to
take us out of here? Yeah? Thanks everybody for listening for all the
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