WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:03.120 Good morning, good morning, good morning, and welcome, welcome, welcome 2 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:06.599 time for a Native Beat, and we have John Weston. He brought friends. 3 00:00:06.679 --> 00:00:09.320 How are you, sir. I am doing great, Tom. I'm 4 00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:13.119 hoping everyone out there listening to us is doing great. Ocio nagata Hello everyone, 5 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:16.519 or as the great Catto people would say, cooh hat a hot. 6 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.480 My guest today is Ken Duncan. He's a proud member of the Catto tribe 7 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:23.960 and a good friend of the Cherokee, including this Cherokee what the Catto would 8 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:27.359 call tayshaw, which just means a friend. We were speaking with him in 9 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:30.079 just a minute. Happy Monday, everyone, and welcome to this edition of 10 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:33.439 Native Beat. Tom. Did you have a great weekend? I sure did. 11 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.960 I watched other people mov yard well conditioning covered in my own home. 12 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:39.200 Well, if you're near my house, you would have seen that. You 13 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.000 would have seen me out there doing it. You know how to live, 14 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:43.520 John. I was one of those crazy people out there about one o'clock in 15 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:48.200 the afternoon, and my wife she was like, you know, your your 16 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.039 brains are gonna be boiled here pretty soon if you're not careful. Anyway, 17 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.840 As always, I'd like to start out by thanking our sponsor, Coffeeville Cooperative 18 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:59.399 Craig Union located three thirteen West ninth Street in Coffeeville. They're all about providing 19 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.960 with great personal financial services. They want to remind you if you're traveling, 20 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.359 which is this time of year for the peak season for travel, to give 21 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:08.799 your financial institution and notification you'll be on the road. You don't want to 22 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:14.359 have your debit card flag the temporarily de activated. That's actually happened to me 23 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:18.519 before. We were traveling one time and my card wouldn't work all of a 24 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:19.280 sudden. It was from the same account. I was like, well, 25 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.840 they noticed some unusual activity and so they suspended it. So you know, 26 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:26.040 it's one of those things. You just want to give them my heads up 27 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:29.719 before you head out. Carfield Cooperative Credit Union, It's where you belong. 28 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:33.959 Check them out on Facebook or their website at Cooperative cu dot com. Insured 29 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:38.959 by NCUA. Native would also like to thank you our listeners for your continued 30 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:41.959 support and tuning in with value. We wouldn't be here. And as they 31 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:45.959 say in the Catto language, howe, which just means thank you. I'll 32 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:49.120 admit I didn't know much about the Catto people before I met Ken and started 33 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:53.799 to research the history of the tribe. The Catto people are descendants of agriculturists 34 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.000 with a netimate understanding of the world, stars, the sky, the earth, 35 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.760 and the world. The Cato have strong set of values regarding how to 36 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:04.879 treat one another and how to live, handed down to them by their creator 37 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:08.080 in the origin story they have, and many Catto lived their lives according to 38 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:13.919 these values to this day. The different bands that made up large confederacies of 39 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:17.439 their ancestors were the builders of the large earth and flat top mounds upon which 40 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:22.639 they built structures. In fact, the spiral mounds down in the southern part 41 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:24.719 of the state are thought to have been built by the ancestors of the Ghetto. 42 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.840 Catto priests studied the Nights Guide to understand the passage of time, their 43 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:31.919 placed in the universe, and when to plant crops. It's a very common 44 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:36.199 theme, it seems, among a lot of native tribes, as they were 45 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:44.280 very much into archaeo astronomy, building structures that actually to actually mark certain times 46 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:47.960 of the heavens that you see when the plant crops, or you know when 47 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.960 you summer or winter solstice would be, or you know, different times of 48 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.240 the ear were important to them, and today there are many ancient items that 49 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.520 were left behind or buried, such as futury items that were on earth, 50 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:02.039 that have been study by archaeologists in ancient Cato homelands of Louisiana, Texas, 51 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:07.960 Arkansas, and Oklahoma. These items gave insight into ancient Cato culture and reflected 52 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.400 a deep and complex understanding of the world in which they lived. And when 53 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:15.159 members of Henrando de Soto's expedition under the Region of fifteen forty two, they 54 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:20.039 found thriving Catto communities and they were distributed along the Brazos Trinity, Netchez, 55 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:24.159 Sabine, Red and Washita rivers, and the Sabine is kind of important to 56 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:29.560 me because my own family, who were Cherokee, actually had settled along the 57 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:32.159 Sabine River in Texas. In fact, my great grandmother was born in Texas 58 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:36.879 and was buried here in Oblesby in southern part of Washington County, so that's 59 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.520 kind of interesting. These communities played important economic and diplomatic roles during the seventeenth 60 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:46.439 and eighteenth century colonial era, and the Cato confederacies and the bands within them 61 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.400 scattered three directions over a period of decades, and the three bands that they 62 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.400 had listed had names that were actually a little hard to burn out, so 63 00:03:53.439 --> 00:04:00.599 I kind of skipped over that part. But anyway, they eventually united an 64 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.840 Indian territory at the Wichita Reservation. The Removal Treaty, signed on July first, 65 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:08.400 eighteen thirty five, and what would later become Shreveport, Louisiana, was 66 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:12.719 signed by the Catto that lived in northwestern Louisiana. A group of Cattos settled 67 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:17.519 along the Chalktaw on Chickasaw in south central Indian Territory near present day Paul's Valley, 68 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.600 Oklahoma. A small town of Whitebread, Oklahoma was named for this group 69 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:26.800 of Kato, who are sometimes referred to as the Whitebread group among the Catto 70 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:30.720 people today. Another group of Katto were in turned along the Lower Brazos Reservation 71 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.319 near the Salt River on the Brazos River in present day Young County, Texas, 72 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:40.120 and this group was emergency evacuated by the US Indian Agent Major Robert S. 73 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:45.240 Neighbors in eighteen fifty nine to avoid a massacre by Texas frontiersman led by 74 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.519 Colonel John Baylor. So if you're a Baylor fan. I don't know, 75 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:55.480 you might want to rethink that anyway. After multiple force removals, the Catto 76 00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:00.959 eventually reallyocated to what is now Caddo County, Oklahoma. Three Catto confederacies and 77 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:05.439 all the bands within them consolidated geographically as a consequence of Indian removal. Additional 78 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:10.639 losses resulted from the subsequent sale of reservation lands as a result of allotment. 79 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:15.160 That's true. That's a story that I think is ubiquitous throughout Native communities, 80 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.000 especially here in Oklahoma. We were resettled here and then after allotment, we 81 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:24.399 lost a lot more territory. Twentieth century efforts to revitalize economic, social, 82 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:29.199 political, and religious institutions have enabled Catto people to maintain a distinctive identity today 83 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.600 and continue building toward a hopeful and prosperous future. And currently, what I 84 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:36.720 was interested to learn was there are six thousand enrolled members in the Catto tribe, 85 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:41.720 with three thousand living here in Oklahoma. We have one with those members 86 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:45.480 with us here today. Thank you Ken for joining us. How are you 87 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.000 this morning? I'm doing well, great, well great, So anyway, 88 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:51.480 and tell us a little bit about yourself. Where were you raised, what 89 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:56.000 was like, your former occupation, what are your hobbies? Your interests is? 90 00:05:56.360 --> 00:05:59.879 Tell us who Ken Duncan is. Okay, I was born and raised 91 00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:05.680 in dew And I've met a police officer out at one of the department stores 92 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:10.160 here one day and he was working off duty, but he was actually in 93 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:14.199 uniform from Dewey, and I told him who it was. We talked for 94 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:15.920 a little bit, and I told him, I said, but don't go 95 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:21.879 back to Dewey and start throwing my name around, because anyway, we got 96 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:25.759 a kick out of it. But I was born and raised there, and 97 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:32.920 I moved a long way from home to Bartleviille. I've been here seventy six 98 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:36.480 years in the area anyway, don't have any plans to go anywhere anytime soon, 99 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:46.360 right, Yeah, let's see. I had some time here with the 100 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:50.279 Bartswool Police Department. That was from nineteen sixty nine through nineteen seventy six. 101 00:06:51.600 --> 00:07:00.240 I went to work for Phillips Petroleum and was there for nineteen years. Took 102 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:04.439 play all package of ninety two and I worked at the Sheriff's office for a 103 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:08.519 couple of years, and then I went as a contract trainer out at Trock 104 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:15.399 County Tech and that's where I retired. Great great So, how did you, 105 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:19.160 I know that you came to the Catto culture kind of lad in life? 106 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:21.639 I did? So how did you come to know your culture as a 107 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:26.519 citizen of the cat Do Nation? Oklahoma? Okay, this goes back to 108 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:32.519 my mother's side of the family, and I know that some of my relatives 109 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:40.600 would indicate at times that we were Native American, but nobody had any history 110 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:46.399 behind it. No one talked about it. And I remember my brother and 111 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:53.199 I asking Mom a couple of times why we were so brown, and she 112 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:57.519 said, you guys just tan easy. And that's just about the only answer 113 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.839 answer we would get. And you know, back then, especially a full 114 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:09.199 blood could not find work really during that time. And the other thing is 115 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.680 I have my grandfather who was a full blood and then my great grandfather. 116 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:20.759 They both lived here in the Burbotville area back in the twenties, and then 117 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:26.519 then they moved actually moved to Dewy at one point where they both passed away. 118 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:33.799 And but there was one aunt in the family and it was Lena, 119 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:39.159 and she she talked and she was the only one in the family that would 120 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.559 talk about I think that's where all these rumors that coming from was aunt Lina 121 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:46.159 anyway, if you want to know anything, just ask yeah, that's right. 122 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:52.120 Yeah. But she, over a period of time let her kids and 123 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:56.240 grandkids know that there was Native blood in our family. And I have this 124 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:03.679 one cousin, and she started researching and she had researched for years, and 125 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:11.120 she finally made a connection with the Cattle Nation and with my grandfather being in 126 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:16.320 full blood there. And you know, that's another interesting thing because the confederacies 127 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:20.639 that the Katto has had. I had one guy tell me one time, 128 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.600 well, how would they figure if you were full blood? If they were 129 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:28.000 all confederacies? And I wouldn't really know how to answer that question for him 130 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.399 because I don't know a lot about it at this point. I have a 131 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:39.720 lot to learn, but I know that on my grandfather's card, his enrollment, 132 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:43.080 he was full blood. My mother was half, and I'm a quarter. 133 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:50.759 You cannot and roll into the trib at this point unless you are one 134 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.639 sixteenth or more. So they have a blood quantum. They do, yes, 135 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.000 they do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a different to 136 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.120 the Cherokee Nation because I think we've grown to about four hundred and nine thousand 137 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:05.399 people now, but when I understand, ninety percent of our tribe has less 138 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:11.120 than one quarter Cherokee blood, you know, so it's definitely a different ball 139 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:13.879 game altogether with what's required to be a tribal member of the Cherokee Nation. 140 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:20.080 So anyway, when you were discovering your culture and everything and your family history, 141 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.840 what was the thing that most surprised you about what you discovered? Was 142 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:26.360 there something that this kind of stood out to you that you were shocked by 143 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.639 or that you will I mean, yes, I guess the first thing that 144 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:39.440 shocked all of us was the blood quantum that my grandfather had. You said 145 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.919 he was full blood? Yes, wow, yes, and there's not a 146 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:50.320 lot of history about him and where he came from. That was a surprise 147 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:56.960 because it appears, and it's just my opinion, but it appears that our 148 00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:01.559 grandfather was probably adopted. Oh I see, there's a lot of information there 149 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.399 that kind of suggests that, and that happened a lot during that time. 150 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:09.879 Parents would get killed and they people would come in and they would adopt those 151 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.639 children then, yeah, and raise them. So well, I know, 152 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:18.279 reading in my own family history, my grandmother was she came over on the 153 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:22.039 trail of tears at the age of nine and lost both of her folks on 154 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.320 the trail, and another family adopted her. And that was in the testimony 155 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.919 before the DAWs Commission when they were when they had opened the roles to togetheryone 156 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.799 registered. So yeah, that was a very common thing to happen. And 157 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.879 of course people people would also die from disease or people would you know, 158 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:43.000 diseases to go through a family like scarlet fever or cholera or something like that, 159 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.200 you know, So that was a common thing someway. You remember the 160 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:50.159 Washington County Cherokee Association, which welcomes everyone, whether you're Indigenous or not. 161 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:56.600 We do and although our mission is to promote Cherokee history, culture and language, 162 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:58.320 and the spirit, it could do you which just means community. How 163 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:03.200 as being a member of that association helped you grow as a Cato tribal or 164 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:09.159 Cato tribal member. Well, you had mentioned in your introduction there about the 165 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:13.399 Kato's how they how to treat each other, how to get along, and 166 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:22.240 in with the Cherokee Association, it's number one with that. I've never been 167 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:30.440 so welcomed into an organization like that that I have with the Cherokees. They're 168 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:35.840 a fantastic group to be with to be around, and I noticed that during 169 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:41.000 some of the votes that are being taken on certain issues, that the votes 170 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:48.480 taken, there's never there's never a word about yay or n a from anybody. 171 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.399 That vote is accepted and they move forward and that's the end of it. 172 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:58.080 There's no brickering or anything like that. It's an amazing place to be 173 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:01.360 a part of. We're kind of a close family, but it's kind of 174 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.279 minus the minus the bickering at times. So, you know, for creating 175 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:09.320 unique items that celebrate the Catto and native culture. So some of the items 176 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:15.240 that you've created, Uh, you've created some rattles understand, And so how 177 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.360 do you how do you get your inspiration for finding items that you create. 178 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:24.320 Well, I've got I've been on some site with the Kettle. I looked 179 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:30.120 at some of the items that they've made in the past. I've made one 180 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:39.480 replica of a wing fan it's actually uh for use for ceremonial dances, uh, 181 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:46.879 And I did make one of those for my son. But I've also 182 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:52.000 looked at other cultures as well, and there's a lot of of the craft 183 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:58.519 work that is very They're similar in a lot of ways because it still goes 184 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:05.039 back to the animal world. Yeah, burden from there at all, and 185 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:11.240 so I mean that's the only products they had so at the time. Yeah, 186 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:18.279 but my inspiration comes from my heart exactly. That's the best inspiration right 187 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.559 there. Well, Ken, I certainly appreciate you coming on today. And 188 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.480 it was as a cut off people would say, how eyah, before we 189 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.519 go, we're gonna have a couple of announcements, so we don't want to 190 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.679 forget this month's prize giveaway for Native Beat for our listeners. It's a newly 191 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:37.039 illustrated guide to the Cherokee Sillabary to help you learn proper pronunciation, written by 192 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.600 Brad Wagman and illustrated by Beth Anderson. You can go to the Barsel Radio 193 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:43.919 Facebook page and drop a feather in the comments section for a chance to win. 194 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:48.440 A winner will be announced during our broadcast on July twenty sixth. Also, 195 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:52.759 make sure to check out our Facebook pages, and we wanted to mention 196 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:56.720 to you might want to give a listen to our friends up in the mighty 197 00:14:56.759 --> 00:15:01.320 six ninety KGGF Chris Crane and Amy Dollar with Fribury Journeys on our sister station. 198 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.360 You can check out their Facebook page and we want to make sure you 199 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.159 tune into the next edition of Native b July twenty sixth at eight thirty in 200 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.759 the morning. You can catch us on the Barzel Radio Facebook page. You're 201 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:16.200 on demand of the Barzel Radio app available in the Apple Store. A big 202 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.159 wadu, as we say in Cherokee, Wanishi is the Delaware would say, 203 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:22.000 Wanzi is the Usah would say in how We as you would say in the 204 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:26.600 Cato language. And all of you listening do to do gohaye until we meet again.